irclog2html for #kde on 20050527

`00:00.34`	`MrGrim`	`shouldn't hurt`
`00:00.37`	`kevin`	`just did`
`00:00.38`	`MrGrim`	`but also show us teh log file`
`00:00.38`	`kevin`	`same thing`
`00:00.42`	`kevin`	`log file of x`
`00:00.42`	`kevin`	`oka`
`00:00.44`	`kevin`	`hold on`
`00:00.54`	`MrGrim`	`kevin: well IF that is the problem it'd require a restart of X likely to work`
`00:01.02`	`MrGrim`	`I doubt it is tho`
`00:01.05`	`MrGrim`	`just worth a sho`
`00:01.05`	`MrGrim`	`t`
`00:01.07`	`Ertain`	`So I take it no one knows about KDE and it's underlying programming here?`
`00:01.39`	`MrGrim`	`Ertain: I know a little bit, I just don't feel like dedicating the time to teach you`
`00:01.40`	`Tm_T`	`=)`
`00:01.41`	`MrGrim`	`no offense`
`00:01.47`	`Ertain`	`None taken.`
`00:01.56`	`kevin`	`http://pastebin.com/290443`
`00:02.11`	`MrGrim`	`I only know very little anyways`
`00:02.30`	`MrGrim`	`I can start a basic kde app, use kdedesigner integrated into kdevelop to make dialogs etc.`
`00:02.35`	`MrGrim`	`and write code to respond to events`
`00:02.37`	`MrGrim`	`but not much else`
`00:02.56`	`MrGrim`	`Ertain: search dot.kde.org`
`00:02.57`	`*** join/#kde bsdfreak (ninja@enterthebass.com)`
`00:03.05`	`MrGrim`	`there were some news postings about kdevelop`
`00:03.14`	`MrGrim`	`some guy wrote some guids for RAD using kdevelop`
`00:03.14`	`kevin`	`oppd`
`00:03.18`	`MrGrim`	`they were helpful to me`
`00:03.21`	`Ertain`	`It's just that every time I try to compile this program, I get errors out the wazoo. Something about the KURLRequester widget not being defined properly, when in fact it has. It has been included, yet when I read up on the error, it isn't the definition in the source file.`
`00:03.26`	`kevin`	`glx is not supported with compsite`
`00:03.47`	`MrGrim`	`kevin: you have a commenting line in your driver section to fix that`
`00:03.50`	`MrGrim`	`commented*`
`00:03.59`	`MrGrim`	`find it and uncomment it`
`00:04.08`	`kevin`	`yeah`
`00:04.12`	`kevin`	`im gonna restart x`
`00:04.12`	`kevin`	`brb`
`00:04.18`	`MrGrim`	`kevin: good luck... composite and glx don't get along yet`
`00:04.24`	`MrGrim`	`and I am not sure if they ever will`
`00:04.37`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: did he have composite on?`
`00:04.41`	`MrGrim`	`seems so`
`00:04.59`	`*** join/#kde kevin (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:05.00`	`kevin`	`okay`
`00:05.02`	`kevin`	`all is good now`
`00:05.03`	`kevin`	`hehe`
`00:05.14`	`MrGrim`	`(EE) GLX is not supported with the Composite extension`
`00:05.21`	`MrGrim`	`that was for Lord-Phoenix`
`00:05.24`	`kevin`	`but i wanted composite to use skippy`
`00:05.26`	`kevin`	`ohh well`
`00:05.40`	`MrGrim`	`kevin: gl w/ composite and kde`
`00:05.44`	`Ertain`	`Does anyone know how to make the Frontend communicate with the Backend? Is that done through "actions"?`
`00:05.45`	`MrGrim`	`last time I tried it it was a crashfest`
`00:06.04`	`MrGrim`	`Ertain: sorry, that's beyond my level of expertise`
`00:06.17`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin: did you have the Option "AllowGLXWithComposite" "true" on?`
`00:06.23`	`*** join/#kde capgadget (~elifino@adsl-68-95-254-49.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)`
`00:06.23`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: he does now`
`00:06.50`	`kevin`	`i have it set to one`
`00:06.52`	`kevin`	`but commented out`
`00:06.56`	`kevin`	`should i turn it back on?`
`00:07.24`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin: if you want to try composite with glx then yes, although it may be unstable`
`00:07.34`	`MrGrim`	`kevin: I told you to uncomment it`
`00:07.37`	`MrGrim`	`isn't that what you just did:`
`00:07.40`	`MrGrim`	`?`
`00:07.45`	`kevin`	`no`
`00:07.48`	`MrGrim`	`..`
`00:07.50`	`kevin`	`i just commented out the extention section`
`00:07.53`	`kevin`	`of composite`
`00:07.54`	`kevin`	`lol`
`00:07.54`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i thought he said he was commenting out composite`
`00:07.55`	`MrGrim`	`heh`
`00:07.56`	`kevin`	`at the bottom`
`00:08.01`	`kevin`	`what`
`00:08.07`	`kevin`	`that did the tricki`
`00:08.10`	`kevin`	`it fixed glx`
`00:08.18`	`MrGrim`	`you said glx won't work with composite, and I told you you have a commented out line in the drivers section to fix that`
`00:08.26`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: stop it ;P`
`00:08.26`	`MrGrim`	`that would be the allowglxwithcomposite line`
`00:08.45`	`MrGrim`	`so you can have both composite and glx`
`00:08.57`	`kevin`	`ohh haha`
`00:09.03`	`kevin`	`sorry i was so anxious to get this working`
`00:09.03`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin: for glx to work, you need either composite off, or composite && AllowGLXWithComposite on`
`00:09.06`	`kevin`	`i must have over read that`
`00:09.49`	`MrGrim`	`and on a completely unrelated note`
`00:09.53`	`MrGrim`	`someone buy a copy of darwinia for me`
`00:10.01`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin: make haste, not speed`
`00:10.04`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`:)`
`00:10.12`	`MrGrim`	`mmmm speed`
`00:10.13`	`MrGrim`	`...`
`00:10.15`	`kevin`	`man`
`00:10.20`	`kevin`	`my gnome and kde menus`
`00:10.22`	`kevin`	`are all mixed up`
`00:10.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin: how'd you do that?`
`00:10.52`	`*** join/#kde kevin (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:11.06`	`*** join/#kde kevin (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:11.21`	`*** join/#kde mortum (~mortum@84.232.61.27)`
`00:11.23`	`*** join/#kde kevin__ (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:11.51`	`kevin__`	`hello`
`00:11.53`	`kevin__`	`was i kicked`
`00:12.16`	`canllaith`	`Someone owns your nick and ghosted you`
`00:12.18`	`MrGrim`	`kevin__: no`
`00:12.22`	`MrGrim`	`someone reclaimed your nick`
`00:12.22`	`kevin__`	`opps`
`00:12.26`	`kevin__`	`ohh well`
`00:12.28`	`MrGrim`	`didn't you see the nickserv warnings when you signed on?`
`00:12.31`	`kevin__`	`no`
`00:12.34`	`kevin__`	`i dont know`
`00:12.38`	`kevin__`	`first time using bitchx`
`00:12.39`	`kevin__`	`hehe`
`00:12.39`	`kevin__`	`okat`
`00:12.42`	`kevin__`	`im gonna restart`
`00:12.43`	`kevin__`	`brb`
`00:12.48`	`MrGrim`	`kevin__: just read everything and you'll be good :)`
`00:12.55`	`MrGrim`	`bitchx makes things hard to miss`
`00:13.00`	`MrGrim`	`since they all show up in the same place`
`00:13.03`	`MrGrim`	`erm.. doh`
`00:13.16`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: you er...up early`
`00:13.30`	`canllaith`	`It's 1213`
`00:13.33`	`canllaith`	`Not so early :)`
`00:13.47`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i know.....and i've yet to sleep :(`
`00:13.52`	`*** join/#kde kevin__ (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:13.56`	`kevin__`	`man skippy is laggy`
`00:14.00`	`kevin__`	`i need more ram`
`00:14.03`	`kevin__`	`i dont think 512 is enough`
`00:14.15`	`MrGrim`	`what is skippy?`
`00:14.16`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: what is skippy?`
`00:14.24`	`kevin__`	`skippy is like expocity`
`00:14.26`	`kevin__`	`for mac`
`00:14.31`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: do you have RenderAccel turned on in your xorg.conf file?`
`00:14.33`	`kevin__`	`you konw when you pusha button on the keyboard on a mac`
`00:14.36`	`Tm_T`	`I don't think 1G is enough`
`00:14.43`	`kevin__`	`it shows you all the windows`
`00:14.45`	`kevin__`	`you have open`
`00:14.48`	`kevin__`	`on your desktop`
`00:14.53`	`kevin__`	`and you can graphically select which one to go to`
`00:15.23`	`kevin__`	`Lord-Phoenix its commented out`
`00:15.26`	`kevin__`	`should uncomment it`
`00:15.43`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: once again, may be unstable, but it will speed things up, a lot`
`00:16.05`	`kevin__`	`lol`
`00:16.08`	`kevin__`	`hmm okay`
`00:16.17`	`kevin__`	`also how do i get my middle mouse wheel`
`00:16.18`	`kevin__`	`button to work`
`00:16.23`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: you may also want to try kompose`
`00:16.26`	`kevin__`	`thats been on my list of two two things`
`00:16.29`	`kevin__`	`kompose`
`00:16.32`	`kevin__`	`thats that`
`00:16.35`	`MrGrim`	`Tm_T: I agree, I'm down to 1G`
`00:16.36`	`kevin__`	`i want to try out all these kde toys`
`00:16.43`	`MrGrim`	`I had 1.5G's of RAM, but I gave a 512 stick to a friend`
`00:16.46`	`MrGrim`	`still need to replace it`
`00:17.00`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: although IMO it works best with static screenshots, rather than XComposite unless you have lotsa ram`
`00:17.13`	`kevin__`	`does it refresh`
`00:17.14`	`kevin__`	`tho`
`00:17.17`	`kevin__`	`?`
`00:17.25`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: s'all good, uneven ram can be weird anyway`
`00:17.37`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: no see I'm back in the stone ages`
`00:17.42`	`kevin__`	`1.5gig is uneven?`
`00:17.43`	`MrGrim`	`I don't have any of that dual channel stuff`
`00:18.01`	`MrGrim`	`1Ghz tbird w/ pc100 RAM`
`00:18.08`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: if you tell it to use Xcomposite then yes, if you use static screenshots, i think so just not as often`
`00:18.39`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: you can't get 1.5g of ram in either a single stick, or lots of two sticks`
`00:18.47`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`heh :)`
`00:18.59`	`*** join/#kde hertz (~hertz@HSE-Toronto-ppp132976.sympatico.ca)`
`00:18.59`	`*** join/#kde kevin__ (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:19.02`	`Tm_T`	`hmm`
`00:19.16`	`Tm_T`	`I need to get more ram, that's for sure`
`00:19.22`	`Tm_T`	`maybe 2G is anough`
`00:19.24`	`kevin__`	`man for a geforce2 is 700fps good on glxgears?`
`00:19.30`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`i was on an athlonxp 1600+ w/ 512mb pc133mb sdr ram`
`00:19.30`	`kevin__`	`yes i know its not a good benchmark`
`00:19.31`	`Tm_T`	`s/anough/enough`
`00:19.42`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: not sure`
`00:19.48`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: so since I have no dual channel there is no "uneven" for me`
`00:19.53`	`MrGrim`	`1, 2, or 3 sticks it's all the same`
`00:20.01`	`canllaith`	`maybe 2GB is enough? :} what for? :P`
`00:20.19`	`Tm_T`	`kevin__: hmm, I have ~7k with my gf5700 :p`
`00:20.20`	`MrGrim`	`that is kinda the crappy part of dual channel`
`00:20.35`	`Tm_T`	`canllaith: dunno, just to be sure ;p`
`00:20.48`	`MrGrim`	`in order to upgrade you have to buy two sticks of ram instead of just one`
`00:20.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: well it still impacts, although probably not bad if your not o'c ing`
`00:20.58`	`canllaith`	`it has 1.5GB in it atm - 2x 256, 2x 512. Lucky lots of slots`
`00:21.04`	`MrGrim`	`I oc, but only the multiplier`
`00:21.11`	`MrGrim`	`of the cpu`
`00:21.19`	`MrGrim`	`multiple sticks only has a very minor impact on latency`
`00:21.26`	`MrGrim`	`and then only if you're pushing it to the edge already`
`00:21.46`	`*** join/#kde gregday_ (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`00:21.55`	`MrGrim`	`some decent company needs to make 768M ram sticks`
`00:22.05`	`MrGrim`	`so you don't have to choose between 1 or 2 GB and the huge price difference between`
`00:22.12`	`MrGrim`	`a good 1.5G compromise for a dual channel system`
`00:22.23`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`a mac is a nice idea, but IMHO, no more than that mostly`
`00:22.31`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`well....not for a power user anyway`
`00:22.36`	`canllaith`	`ha.`
`00:22.38`	`*** join/#kde chuck (~chuck@pool-151-204-205-53.pskn.east.verizon.net)`
`00:22.43`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`or....power-tinkerer`
`00:22.49`	`canllaith`	`Right now it's being used to mathematical type programming into halftone dot shapes........`
`00:22.55`	`canllaith`	`I don't think they get much more power-user, really`
`00:23.36`	`*** join/#kde kevin__ (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`00:23.41`	`MrGrim`	`they do... just in hude increments :P`
`00:23.42`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: that doesn't mean its the best solution though :)`
`00:23.44`	`MrGrim`	`s/hude/huge`
`00:23.44`	`kevin__`	`okay kde just crashed`
`00:23.46`	`kevin__`	`lol`
`00:23.48`	`kevin__`	`back to gnome`
`00:23.50`	`kevin__`	`lol`
`00:23.50`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: any luck with the RenderAccel?`
`00:23.56`	`kevin__`	`haha crashed`
`00:23.59`	`MrGrim`	`kevin__: be sure you know WHAT crashed`
`00:24.04`	`kevin__`	`yeah i know`
`00:24.28`	`kevin__`	`icant fiddle too much today`
`00:24.28`	`MrGrim`	`just because you were running kde doesn't mean it is the cause`
`00:24.28`	`kevin__`	`i need to write a paper`
`00:24.28`	`kevin__`	`and watch naruto`
`00:24.29`	`kevin__`	`lol`
`00:24.29`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: lol you're full of shit. It was half price, you can't tell me you wouldn't buy a dual cpu machine for $3500ish`
`00:24.29`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`kevin__: if you turned RenderAccel it was probably that`
`00:24.29`	`MrGrim`	`kevin__: try keeping composite off`
`00:24.29`	`MrGrim`	`composite is a crash fest`
`00:24.39`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: yeah....i can`
`00:24.53`	`MrGrim`	`personally in the last 6 months I have never had "kde" crash...`
`00:24.56`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: $3500 is way overpriced`
`00:24.57`	`MrGrim`	`never been dropped to a console`
`00:25.11`	`MrGrim`	`hell individual apps rarely crash`
`00:25.19`	`MrGrim`	`tho I do have one outstanding bug.. but it's not kde specific`
`00:25.20`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: that may be true, but had i the money, i'd still build the machine myself`
`00:25.27`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: no, it's not. I am a hardware retailer and I can't build that machine for that price.`
`00:25.43`	`MrGrim`	`large fonts freezes X`
`00:25.47`	`MrGrim`	`forces me to reboot remotely`
`00:25.50`	`MrGrim`	`and god it's annoying`
`00:25.58`	`MrGrim`	`I just cannot figure out how to narrow it down :/`
`00:26.01`	`canllaith`	`When the new g5 models just came in some stores had floor stock of the older ones. The original price tag was much much steeper.`
`00:26.02`	`kevin__`	`i want to make a dual sempron system`
`00:26.04`	`kevin__`	`that be cool`
`00:26.07`	`kevin__`	`with 2g of ram`
`00:26.16`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i just don't think macs are value performance-wise`
`00:26.24`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: do you even own one?`
`00:26.41`	`kevin__`	`man`
`00:26.43`	`kevin__`	`i love macs`
`00:26.45`	`MrGrim`	`how is linux hardware support for macs?`
`00:26.46`	`kevin__`	`my friends laptop`
`00:26.47`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: as if i could afford one, though i work with them often enough`
`00:26.50`	`kevin__`	`on 256 megs of ram`
`00:26.52`	`kevin__`	`is so smooth`
`00:26.56`	`canllaith`	`MrGrim: very very good`
`00:26.58`	`*** join/#kde ama (~ama@d233-171-197.nap.wideopenwest.com)`
`00:27.12`	`MrGrim`	`what about video?`
`00:27.15`	`MrGrim`	`high end nvidia or ati cards?`
`00:27.21`	`canllaith`	`nvidia fx5200 ultra`
`00:27.28`	`*** join/#kde jbn-o (~jbn@12-223-133-114.client.insightbb.com)`
`00:27.43`	`MrGrim`	`does nvidia even have ppc driverS?`
`00:27.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: theres very little to support, which makes it rather easier`
`00:28.02`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: it's a dual 2GHz g5 (64 bit) system with 1.5GB of ddr 400 - I think you'll find it performs well enough.`
`00:28.24`	`*** join/#kde argonel (argonel@argonel.developer.konversation)`
`00:28.25`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: and also why I like x86 :)`
`00:28.25`	`jbn-o`	`What website can I read to find out more about what CSS is supported in Konqueror and what is likely to be supported soon?`
`00:28.56`	`MrGrim`	`I like options, and I appreciate the requirement of taking the bad with the good`
`00:29.16`	`MrGrim`	`I have not seen any other architecture that can be customized to the extent x86 can be`
`00:29.22`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: perhaps, but i'll stick to my amd64 system for the moment till pigs fly and money falls off trees`
`00:30.05`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i wouldn't mind a mac as a secondary dev machine to play with the technologies more, but as my primary system, in a word, no`
`00:30.07`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: how quickly can you compile a clean cvs snapshot of kdelibs using your distcc setup?`
`00:30.10`	`canllaith`	`Could try, I dunno.... getting a job.`
`00:30.19`	`canllaith`	`MrGrim: hrm I don't actually know because I don't build all of KDE`
`00:30.35`	`MrGrim`	`well not even all of kdelibs?`
`00:30.37`	`canllaith`	`arts/libs/base is currently an hour from clean`
`00:30.43`	`MrGrim`	`hmm`
`00:30.44`	`MrGrim`	`nice not bad`
`00:30.50`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i work on and off when i need to`
`00:30.50`	`canllaith`	`Then after that I only pick a few modules here and there`
`00:31.21`	`canllaith`	`There is a 2.4GHz/1024MB and an athlon xp 3200/768MB Is my mini cluster right now`
`00:31.29`	`canllaith`	`So not many machines`
`00:31.36`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: please be careful w/ the get a job thing.. for many peoples it's not like they don't have one, but not the one they want.. and not like they haven't tried`
`00:31.38`	`canllaith`	`adding the g5 would make a large difference.`
`00:31.55`	`gregday_`	`Lord-Phoenix: consider the mac mini, i got one as a plaything to learn on, and it's quite nice`
`00:32.12`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: its cool, canllaith is just a little defensive over her macs :)`
`00:32.17`	`canllaith`	`Why start shit over someone saying 'g5' ? I mean really, it's a computer not a religion :)`
`00:32.21`	`MrGrim`	`I make a pitiful amount of money, but work my ass off... I simply do not have enough money to leave my town, and I do not have the credentials (wether I have the skills or not) to get one of the extremely rare and limited tech jobs in town)`
`00:32.51`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`gregday_: are they available again? last i heard, there were no stocks like .... anywhere`
`00:32.57`	`kevin__`	`mac mini = leet`
`00:33.02`	`kevin__`	`but powerbook is better`
`00:33.11`	`canllaith`	`I'm tempted by a mini simpy because they are silent`
`00:33.22`	`MrGrim`	`silent is definately good`
`00:33.23`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`now powerbooks are cool....if only they were g5`
`00:33.46`	`Jejem`	`'n8 [/amsg]`
`00:33.47`	`canllaith`	`I can hear the disk accessing, not hugely loud but I can hear it.`
`00:33.48`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`did you see the guy who made his mac mini battery powered?`
`00:33.51`	`gregday_`	`Lord-Phoenix: maybe not... i got mine a few weeks after release, and it was the dead last one in the apple store in memphis (next to last was sold 2 minutes before mine)`
`00:33.58`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`it was on slashdot a few days ago i think`
`00:34.11`	`canllaith`	`There are some stocks in New Zealand now. I think, anyway.`
`00:34.18`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: to be honest, id rather listen to my disk than wait on it. 4200rpm -blows-`
`00:34.22`	`canllaith`	`It's iPod's we can't get here right now`
`00:34.32`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`who wants an iPod`
`00:34.40`	`MrGrim`	`gregday_: understatement`
`00:34.45`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: I put a 7200RPM seagate into the iMac DV+. Makes swapping much less painful.`
`00:34.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`when iPod can play flac, i'll think about it`
`00:35.05`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`i want a Cowon iAudio X5`
`00:35.11`	`gregday_`	`Lord-Phoenix: that will happen right after it can play ogg, which is about 10 minutes after NEVER`
`00:35.12`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: ahh .. yes the ipod is kind of a limited device in my eyes too`
`00:35.20`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: have you looked into the iAUDIO m3?`
`00:35.31`	`canllaith`	`Yup, which is how i like it. All it does is play mp3. That's all I want.`
`00:35.51`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: yeah, its nice, but the flac support is a little patchy`
`00:35.56`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: amarok can now shuffle music back and forth`
`00:36.02`	`canllaith`	`which is nice`
`00:36.04`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: more than half of my music collection is ogg or flac... I need a player that can play them`
`00:36.13`	`ama`	`dunno why apple dosnt make an official client`
`00:36.15`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: have you played w/ one irl?`
`00:36.17`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: yeah but im just not used to it yet.. im still more comfortable using one tool for one job, dumb as it is`
`00:36.18`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: but since the X5 has had flac support from the get go, its totally sweet`
`00:36.26`	`canllaith`	`I couldn't get gtkpod to ...... do anything`
`00:36.27`	`ama`	`they use bsd code, and reap all the benefits to open source`
`00:36.28`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: X5?`
`00:36.32`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: not yet, i really want to`
`00:36.35`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: ive only ever hooked my ipod up to the mac once`
`00:36.37`	`ama`	`but when it comes to supporting an open source system, they fall silent`
`00:36.44`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: new one out`
`00:36.49`	`MrGrim`	`by iaudio?`
`00:36.52`	`MrGrim`	`jukebox?`
`00:36.53`	`canllaith`	`ama: so? No law says they have to do it and they fufill the requirements of GPL and LGPL when they use it.`
`00:36.55`	`gregday_`	`ama: dont start that here, please... for the sake of everyone's sanity,, dont`
`00:36.59`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`yeah, hang a sec`
`00:37.08`	`canllaith`	`You might as well bitch that the tide goes in and out`
`00:37.12`	`MrGrim`	`iaudio stuff is very, very slick`
`00:37.13`	`ama`	`im not talking about laws`
`00:37.17`	`ama`	`im talking about respect`
`00:37.20`	`MrGrim`	`I'm surprised they are not very well known`
`00:37.35`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: its wicked that the M3 has the screen on the remote`
`00:37.48`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i mean, i never want to rip my player out to see the screen`
`00:37.56`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=339456`
`00:37.58`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: HELL YES`
`00:38.10`	`MrGrim`	`EVERY other person I've talked to about it has mentioned that as a negative aspect`
`00:38.16`	`MrGrim`	`I think the remote is freakin awesome`
`00:38.34`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: thats like the best feature.....apart from flac and ogg of course :)`
`00:38.44`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: also http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/`
`00:38.53`	`MrGrim`	`good to meet another iaudio fan`
`00:39.05`	`MrGrim`	`whoa HOLY SHIT that's a big price tag`
`00:39.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: the 20GB version is about $300 cheaper`
`00:39.26`	`ama`	`those things are overpriced`
`00:39.40`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: hmm I still would prefer the m3`
`00:39.44`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=339453`
`00:39.45`	`ama`	`someone needs to mass produce them for 100 bucks`
`00:39.54`	`gregday_`	`for the record, as a recent Mac owner (~1 year) (ibook, powerbook, mini...) and a linux geek of over 6 years now... i find KDE's interface, usability, feature set, freedom, and speed to be far above what the OSX Aqua desktop offers. just sayin.`
`00:39.58`	`MrGrim`	`I don't like the concept of integrating a video player and picture viewer in my music player`
`00:40.11`	`ama`	`me either`
`00:40.13`	`MrGrim`	`gregday_: amen`
`00:40.24`	`gregday_`	`MrGrim: you dont wanna watch a movie on a 2" screen? what's your problem dude`
`00:40.32`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`ama: i don't see iPods going for $100 either...and they don't play jack, let alone ogg/flac/video/etc`
`00:40.39`	`MrGrim`	`rofl gregday_`
`00:40.50`	`MrGrim`	`gregday_: well, one thing that'd make it worthwhile is svideo and digital audio outputs`
`00:40.55`	`ama`	`yeah that wont happen any time soon`
`00:40.59`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i agree, however it is cool that the player is that powerful`
`00:41.05`	`ama`	`apple is making a tonn of money off those things`
`00:41.06`	`MrGrim`	`gregday_: you can take movies to a friends house, plug it into his tv's front ports`
`00:41.15`	`gregday_`	`Lord-Phoenix: dont play jack? ah actually there is a release of the JACK audio interface for OSX that you can pipe sound through when playing back songs on the ipod through itunes :P`
`00:41.18`	`MrGrim`	`that'd be kinda neat`
`00:41.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`gregday_: heh :) its a good thing i wasn't being literal :)`
`00:41.56`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: here is where things really get silly http://www.headphone.com/`
`00:41.56`	`MrGrim`	`if it was affordable`
`00:42.15`	`gregday_`	`i was also really, really, really surprised to see an OpenAL framework in Tiger. i didnt think _anyone_ was supporting it yet`
`00:42.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: my flatmate and i are really lusting after some of the headphone and headphone amps here`
`00:42.39`	`MrGrim`	`hmm the color interface for playing music on the x5 looks sweet`
`00:42.47`	`MrGrim`	`damn`
`00:42.54`	`MrGrim`	`if I ever had a spare grand to spend I'd be really torn`
`00:42.59`	`MrGrim`	`dell 2405fpw`
`00:43.01`	`MrGrim`	`or iaudio x5`
`00:43.11`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: yeah, i'm gonna work towards getting one once they've come down in price a little`
`00:43.19`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: dell 2405fpw?`
`00:43.24`	`MrGrim`	`24" lcd`
`00:43.26`	`ama`	`why not just hum the music in your head you would save alot of money`
`00:43.28`	`MrGrim`	`1920x1200 resolution`
`00:43.39`	`MrGrim`	`16:10 aspect`
`00:43.42`	`ama`	`i would never buy a flat screen monitor`
`00:43.46`	`MrGrim`	`it is an absolutely gorgeous screen`
`00:43.49`	`ama`	`until they cost no more than 100 dollars`
`00:43.49`	`MrGrim`	`I had the chance to see one irl`
`00:43.56`	`MrGrim`	`I swear I about <censored> myself`
`00:44.00`	`sarah03`	`Hm. I'll keep the mp3 player that I currently have.`
`00:44.10`	`ama`	`why not just buy a used emachine monitor`
`00:44.10`	`MrGrim`	`ama: I wouldn't buy a $100 crt`
`00:44.12`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: how much? and whats the response time on that baby?`
`00:44.18`	`ama`	`thats what i got, and it works`
`00:44.25`	`MrGrim`	`ama: the monitor is my pc's primary method of output`
`00:44.30`	`ama`	`i dont need any fancy overpriced monitor`
`00:44.32`	`MrGrim`	`and my pc is my primary source of entertainment`
`00:44.36`	`MrGrim`	`I want a damn good monitor`
`00:44.49`	`gregday_`	`the dell2005fpw is also sweet for under $500`
`00:44.55`	`gregday_`	`if you look in the right places`
`00:44.56`	`ama`	`if i threw my monitor in the air, and you threw yours when they collided mine would break yours`
`00:45.01`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`ama: i like my eyes.....so i treat them nicely`
`00:45.03`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: I'm not sure of the exact #, but it uses that panel type that has very good grey to grey`
`00:45.05`	`sarah03`	`ama: You'd be surprised just how much easier a more expensive monitor can be on your eyes.`
`00:45.07`	`MrGrim`	`the spec # is a bit high`
`00:45.16`	`gregday_`	`ama: well isn't that the test of a truly good monitor? how it fares in aerial combat`
`00:45.17`	`MrGrim`	`but according to reviews because of th epanel type it performs quite well`
`00:45.24`	`ama`	`indeed gregday_`
`00:45.29`	`sarah03`	`gregday_: lol`
`00:46.03`	`MrGrim`	`my pc stays in my bedroom.. so it doubles as my dvd player and tv too`
`00:46.10`	`MrGrim`	`a 24" 16:10 lcd would be awesome for dvd's`
`00:46.17`	`MrGrim`	`not to mention the massive desktop space w/ 1920x1200`
`00:46.22`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: coz we're talking $3500NZ for the average 24" lcd screen here`
`00:46.24`	`MrGrim`	`and for gaming... I bet it'd rock`
`00:46.43`	`ama`	`crts are better anyway`
`00:46.49`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: well one of the big things w/ the introduction of the dell unit is dell continued their habit of offering high end screens for rediculous low prives`
`00:46.51`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: oh....you know i've been talking NZ$ right?`
`00:46.53`	`MrGrim`	`on a relative scale`
`00:46.54`	`ama`	`lcd's dont last that long, and suffer from bad pixels`
`00:46.54`	`sarah03`	`MrGrim: I'd find it useful. I wouldn't need a dual-head configuration for my desktop to feel right anymore. :)`
`00:47.05`	`ama`	`the colors are not as vibrant`
`00:47.09`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: oh.. no :P`
`00:47.10`	`ama`	`get a good crt`
`00:47.13`	`MrGrim`	`I've been speaking usd`
`00:47.19`	`ama`	`but never pay more than 100 dollars for a monitor`
`00:47.23`	`ama`	`or your being ripped off`
`00:47.27`	`ama`	`*are`
`00:47.44`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`ama: your eyes must hate you`
`00:47.48`	`sarah03`	`ama: When you're talking about cheap used CRTs, I don't think you've got much room to speak.`
`00:47.48`	`MrGrim`	`ama: we get it, you don't give a fuck how well your display performs`
`00:47.54`	`MrGrim`	`I, however, do`
`00:48.11`	`MrGrim`	`and I'm sure others here do as well`
`00:48.13`	`gregday_`	`ha ha ha`
`00:48.19`	`gregday_`	`$100`
`00:48.46`	`ama`	`i dont have your fancy ipods or 500 dollar monitors`
`00:48.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`a $100 blowjob would get me further than a $100 monitor probably`
`00:48.52`	`ama`	`i still have kde 3.3.0`
`00:48.58`	`Tm_T`	`=)`
`00:49.02`	`canllaith`	`$500 ? good lord. What kind of cheap monitor is that?`
`00:49.06`	`canllaith`	`:P`
`00:49.18`	`MrGrim`	`ama: perfect geometry, a return policy from dell that saves you from dead pixels, extremely easy on the eyes, very sharp image, very large screen area, and quite acceptable color reproduction for a lcd`
`00:49.19`	`MrGrim`	`hell`
`00:49.27`	`MrGrim`	`the dell 2405fpw lcd prolly has better color than your sub $100 crt`
`00:49.34`	`ama`	`you believe dell?`
`00:49.37`	`canllaith`	`Prolly, they're getting very good now`
`00:49.40`	`MrGrim`	`and where did you get this "don't last long" thing from?`
`00:49.44`	`ama`	`its probably a hassle to return it`
`00:49.47`	`MrGrim`	`at worst you have to replace the backlight after a few years`
`00:49.52`	`canllaith`	`I have a 7 year old LCD here`
`00:49.58`	`sarah03`	`ama: I don't know what you're talking about regarding LCD panels not lasting long.`
`00:50.03`	`canllaith`	`No problems.`
`00:50.04`	`ama`	`they probably will need to have you make a grid and pin point each of the dead pixels`
`00:50.11`	`gregday_`	`it should be noted the Dell widescreen monitors are the exactly same components (aside from case) as the apple displays`
`00:50.20`	`ama`	`and if you miss one, your warrenty is voided and you dont get your monitor or money back`
`00:50.21`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: oh really? How interesting.`
`00:50.24`	`sarah03`	`The LCD panel in the laptop that I'm currently using is probably a good 7-8 years old.`
`00:50.25`	`MrGrim`	`ama: you are being paranoid, I have spoken to many people who have taken advantage of dells generous return policy`
`00:50.27`	`MrGrim`	`and had no complaints`
`00:50.30`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: yep, i believe the screen is from LG actually`
`00:50.44`	`MrGrim`	`ama: lcd pixels don't degrade w/ age.. the can't lose brightness because they don't emit light`
`00:50.53`	`ama`	`yes they do`
`00:50.55`	`MrGrim`	`the only part of an lcd that goes bad w/ time is the backlight`
`00:50.57`	`canllaith`	`sarah03: indeed, I have a few laptop panels like that. Nice screens too they made back then`
`00:50.59`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`hmm...i have to say though, LCD vendors are like the "man"`
`00:50.59`	`ama`	`then how can you see if it dosnt emit light?`
`00:51.09`	`sarah03`	`ama: That's what a backlight is for.`
`00:51.11`	`MrGrim`	`BACKLIGHT`
`00:51.13`	`MrGrim`	`you moron`
`00:51.13`	`MrGrim`	`christ`
`00:51.18`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: the dell 20" is around half the price of the apple one, but in a slightly uglier dell casing, but it does do rotation, has 4 usb ports, dvi, vga, svideo, composite.. picture-in-picture... lots of things the apple ones dont do`
`00:51.19`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`this whole you can't return them without 15 dead pixels thing is bullshit`
`00:51.20`	`ama`	`hahahaha`
`00:51.21`	`sarah03`	`An LCD panel doesn't emit any light. It's a panel which simply changes color.`
`00:51.29`	`ama`	`you didnt say that MrGrim, until later`
`00:51.32`	`sarah03`	`The light behind it is what causes it to light up.`
`00:51.40`	`MrGrim`	`[19:51] <MrGrim> the only part of an lcd that goes bad w/ time is the backlight`
`00:51.41`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: Nice. Very nice. I might have to look at those`
`00:51.50`	`ama`	`dunno it must have been alot of money for a lcd 7 to 8 years ago`
`00:51.51`	`MrGrim`	`[19:50] <MrGrim> at worst you have to replace the backlight after a few years`
`00:51.59`	`MrGrim`	`I mentioned it more than once`
`00:52.01`	`MrGrim`	`and a bit ago`
`00:52.04`	`*** join/#kde bobwhoops (~eric@69.37.213.194.adsl.snet.net)`
`00:52.04`	`gregday_`	`dell's warranty policy is absolutely awesome on their flat panels`
`00:52.10`	`MrGrim`	`ama: I also kindly assumed you actually know how lcd's work`
`00:52.11`	`MrGrim`	`you know`
`00:52.13`	`MrGrim`	`before bashing them`
`00:52.14`	`sarah03`	`canllaith: Yes, the older LCD panels are typically pretty decent, all things considered. They don't have the greatest color reproduction.`
`00:52.18`	`sarah03`	`But beyond that.`
`00:52.22`	`ama`	`i do`
`00:52.26`	`canllaith`	`ama: so ? Who cares if it's a bit of money if it works 8 years later flawlessly and will also work flawlessly another 8 years later?`
`00:52.43`	`ama`	`a claim like that is highly suspect canllaith`
`00:52.53`	`canllaith`	`ama: lol come here and look at it you fool.`
`00:52.58`	`MrGrim`	`ama: except it's not suspect`
`00:53.03`	`MrGrim`	`because lcd's are not that new of a tech`
`00:53.05`	`MrGrim`	`and they DO last that long`
`00:53.16`	`canllaith`	`The one I'm using right now is 5 years old.`
`00:53.32`	`sarah03`	`LCDs are new technology kind of like electronics.`
`00:53.33`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`the low end philips lcds are HORRIBLE, i'm not sure about their professional ones`
`00:53.38`	`canllaith`	`The colours are rather warm, although for graphics work better too warm than too cold....`
`00:53.51`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: We have a 20" philips LCD here and it's quite nice.`
`00:53.53`	`sarah03`	`</sarcasm>`
`00:53.55`	`MrGrim`	`whereas my 5 year old lcd is losing brightness at an astonishing rate.. and this crappy fd trinitron has convergance issues on the edges due to its edge`
`00:54.09`	`MrGrim`	`the "lines" at 1/3 and 2/3 down the screen are now curved`
`00:54.17`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@ip68-3-31-10.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`00:54.19`	`MrGrim`	`and crt's only have the POTENTIAL for better color reproduction`
`00:54.23`	`sarah03`	`My 5 year old NEC monitor only has one issue, and that's that one of the buttons on it finally broke.`
`00:54.39`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i'll believe it, i know philips usually have .... well a vast gulf between their upper and lower ranges`
`00:54.41`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: although, I think the LCD on my 12" laptop is a bit crisper. I have no complaints about the high end philips though.`
`00:54.47`	`gregday_`	`monitors? you're all suckers. my teletype and line printer has never failed me and never will`
`00:54.48`	`MrGrim`	`cheap crt's are not as good as expensive ones, and old ass cheap used crt's are probably worse than modern lcd's`
`00:54.55`	`sarah03`	`gregday_: lol`
`00:55.10`	`gregday_`	`also provides automatic hardcopy logging... of EVERYTHING`
`00:55.11`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: yup. I have one of their lightframe CRT monitors (just the entry level 17" one, I think it retailed for around $600 new so it wasn't expensive compared to their graphic design range)`
`00:55.21`	`canllaith`	`It's very very lovely.`
`00:55.35`	`MrGrim`	`ama: I'm also guessing your cheap used crt hasn't even been calibrated`
`00:55.37`	`MrGrim`	`or has it?`
`00:56.03`	`canllaith`	`I got it at an auction for $70 and then took it in to have the knobs fiddled with. Best $70 I ever spent.`
`00:56.06`	`MrGrim`	`haha, gregday_ you rock`
`00:56.16`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i have a philips Brilliance 202P4 that i got from a friend of a friend for $600 when he went LCD`
`00:56.22`	`canllaith`	`Nice.`
`00:56.30`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: 1600x1200 never looked so good`
`00:56.41`	`MrGrim`	`my monitor is a viewsonic professional series pf790`
`00:56.47`	`MrGrim`	`19" fd trinitron`
`00:56.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`i'd go 1920x1440 but i'm not that masochistic with my eyes :)`
`00:56.50`	`MrGrim`	`and I regret ever buyin git`
`00:56.59`	`canllaith`	`This one will only do 1152x864 at a refresh rate I can actually focus on without killing my eyes.`
`00:57.09`	`MrGrim`	`fd trinitrons age extremely poorly`
`00:57.16`	`MrGrim`	`if I ever buy a crt again it will be a shadow mask`
`00:57.24`	`canllaith`	`That's interesting to know MrGrim ........ so I guess I don't want to think about second hand ones of those?`
`00:57.39`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`this does 1920x1440 at 85Hz, and i won't go lower than 85Hz, but there i find fonts a little small`
`00:57.47`	`canllaith`	`Fair enough`
`00:57.56`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: prolly not, my experience consists of my monitors poor aging, and discussions w/ cg artists and monitor repair techs`
`00:58.03`	`MrGrim`	`for what that is worth`
`00:58.06`	`MrGrim`	`but I'd avoid them`
`00:58.14`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`so i just use 1600x1200 and turn font size down as much as i can stand`
`00:58.17`	`gregday_`	`too bad OSX is really only usably at around 1280x or higher`
`00:58.36`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: you know the lines in fd trinitrons that are used to hold the phosphors in place?`
`00:58.38`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: heh my iMac DV is one of those little CRT ones at 1024x768`
`00:58.40`	`canllaith`	`MrGrim: yes`
`00:58.44`	`MrGrim`	`little wires behind the screen`
`00:58.49`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: on many models they will start to sag`
`00:58.56`	`canllaith`	`I have to physically restrain myself from using those wires to line things up in photoshop.`
`00:59.03`	`MrGrim`	`causing color and convergance issues all around the edge of the screen`
`00:59.08`	`canllaith`	`yuck.`
`00:59.11`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: haha, i knew a guy once who didn't know about the lines on the trinitrons and spend 2 days on a graphics assignment trying to 'fix' the problem :)`
`00:59.15`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: dont you find the dock, menubar, titlebar controls... getting in the way?`
`00:59.17`	`MrGrim`	`my also requires extremely exccesive gamma correction`
`00:59.20`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: yes`
`00:59.20`	`MrGrim`	`after only 5 years`
`00:59.58`	`*** join/#kde N17R0 (~n17r0@amf-zlh-90d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl)`
`00:59.59`	`MrGrim`	`Gamma 1.8 2.15 2.45`
`01:00.00`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: http://www.hoult.org/~canllaith/foo/pink.png`
`01:00.03`	`MrGrim`	`those are my gamma values`
`01:00.19`	`canllaith`	`That there is all I use it for, really. It sits there blaring music and running chat programs, and I do real work on the linux laptop`
`01:00.20`	`MrGrim`	`blue lost brightness a lot quicker than red or green`
`01:00.29`	`MrGrim`	`for a while all my darker colors had a nasty red tint`
`01:00.31`	`sarah03`	`Hm. I've had one CRT that I've been particularly happy with. They aren't made anymore, AFAIK. But that was a long time ago, so...`
`01:01.04`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: so I am stuck with a dark and blurry 19" trinitron w/ bad color and convergance problems`
`01:01.07`	`MrGrim`	`after a mere 5 years`
`01:01.11`	`sarah03`	`Said monitor was an old NEC MultiSync 5FG. Which someone tossed by a dumpster.`
`01:01.25`	`sarah03`	`Worked pretty decently, as I recall.`
`01:01.37`	`gregday_`	canllaith: a screenshot just isn't complete without `top`
`01:01.37`	`MrGrim`	`I suppose all crt's darken w/ time as the phosphors age`
`01:01.39`	`sarah03`	`But I was about 11 at the time that I picked it up and found it to work, so...`
`01:01.40`	`MrGrim`	`but 5 years isn't THAT lon`
`01:01.41`	`MrGrim`	`g`
`01:01.42`	`canllaith`	`There is a 17" trinitron on a shelf here, I don't like the picture on it much though`
`01:01.59`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: heh well, something was hogging my cpu and making it run like a dog. Turned out it was OSX ;)`
`01:02.08`	`MrGrim`	`lol canllaith`
`01:02.10`	`sarah03`	`It died about 8 years ago.`
`01:02.32`	`MrGrim`	`I had a screenshot w/ pearpc, zsnes, pcsx, and vmware running once..`
`01:02.34`	`MrGrim`	`that was fun`
`01:02.34`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: i take it you're not on tiger yet?`
`01:02.37`	`sarah03`	`Had a nice crisp picture, right until it just up and decided that it wasn't going to work.`
`01:02.52`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: no we're still in panther here. Not upgrading to a .0 release too hastily`
`01:02.53`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: I have bad luck w/ monitors`
`01:03.11`	`MrGrim`	`the one I had before this was an optiquest v95.. it's picture went bad in a very weird way`
`01:03.17`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: well since you have Grab.app open, one nice little feature of TIger is the screenshot hotkey cmd-shift-3 now saves to PNG rather than PDF (what were you thinking apple)`
`01:03.23`	`MrGrim`	`a guy I know who repairs monitors explained what happened once`
`01:03.27`	`MrGrim`	`but I don't remember`
`01:03.41`	`canllaith`	`That's nice. Shame I can't use fish:// to save straight to webserver like I do on linux.`
`01:04.11`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: seriously. is there anything else in the world that uses the fish protocol besides the kioslave? or is it a kde innovation?`
`01:04.24`	`MrGrim`	`anyways, moral of story to me.. ever buy crt again`
`01:04.33`	`*** join/#kde rendie (~rendie@ppp-69-230-85-170.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`01:04.34`	`MrGrim`	`their advantages do not outweight their disadvantages`
`01:04.38`	`MrGrim`	`s/ever/never`
`01:04.44`	`rendie`	`how come when extracting audio and video files with mkvextract i get different length of video/audio?`
`01:04.54`	`gregday_`	`canllaith: the best ive found for that kinda thing in osx is either using Cyberduck (FTP) or Fugu (ssh/scp) or just terminal`
`01:04.56`	`sarah03`	`MrGrim: Heh. My current pair of CRTs is an NEC MutliSync 75 and a Samsunc SyncMaster 955df. Can't afford to pick up an LCD panel at the moment.`
`01:05.01`	`MrGrim`	`rendie: good question... but this is #kde`
`01:05.09`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: same here`
`01:05.16`	`MrGrim`	`but I will not replace my viewsonic until I can`
`01:05.20`	`MrGrim`	`I won't buy another crt`
`01:05.26`	`sarah03`	`The former of the 2 is a 17", the latter is a 19".`
`01:05.29`	`rendie`	`so what`
`01:05.34`	`canllaith`	`gregday_: I use terminal. and fish:// is a KDE innovation as far as I am aware`
`01:05.43`	`gregday_`	`rendie: so what if you we are all off topic... dont point out our hypocrisy`
`01:05.45`	`*** part/#kde bobwhoops (~eric@69.37.213.194.adsl.snet.net)`
`01:05.50`	`MrGrim`	`haha`
`01:05.59`	`Pupeno`	`canllaith: fish:// has been here for years ;)`
`01:06.10`	`MrGrim`	`rendie: I'm just saying you're as likely to find matroska experts here as you are in #supybot`
`01:06.26`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`fish:// rocks`
`01:06.33`	`rendie`	`what the hell r u guys tlaking about`
`01:06.35`	`MrGrim`	`sftp:// rocks too :)`
`01:06.40`	`MrGrim`	`rendie: kde :P`
`01:06.43`	`canllaith`	`:) It does indeed.`
`01:06.46`	`*** join/#kde doleyb (~doleyb@209-150-58-115.c3-0.wob-ubr2.sbo-wob.ma.cable.rcn.com)`
`01:06.49`	`gregday_`	`we are talking about putting fish in a CRT`
`01:06.54`	`Tm_T`	`sshfs rock hardest ;)`
`01:06.56`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: hrm ? What do you mean ?`
`01:07.19`	`rendie`	`lets change the subject to "lewts help rendie`
`01:07.35`	`canllaith`	`Lets not touch the subject, because banning occurs immediately after.`
`01:07.42`	`sarah03`	`Lord-Phoenix: I don't. I get around with a desktop machine; my laptop is little more than a glorified terminal with a wireless card.`
`01:08.01`	`gregday_`	`do the camera:// slave and digikam use the same backend in any way (i mean kde backend, not gphoto)`
`01:08.18`	`rendie`	`banning is for lusers, whoever bans gets a luser treatment`
`01:08.29`	`canllaith`	`:) Is it natively supported sarah03 ?`
`01:08.30`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: the mostly small screen and keyboard....though there are exceptions`
`01:08.32`	`MrGrim`	`heh glorified term`
`01:08.43`	`MrGrim`	`sounds fun`
`01:08.45`	`gregday_`	`oh, friend of mine wanted to know, is there a way to disable springloaded folders?`
`01:08.54`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`sarah03: awesome :) power to the peeps yo`
`01:09.06`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: 12" screen, 95% full size keyboard. 1.5KG ..... this means it comes with me everywhere in my handbag. I love this guy.`
`01:09.09`	`*** join/#kde Garibaldi (~adalton@host-64-139-244-207.nctv.com)`
`01:09.13`	`rendie`	`i had a NEC MULTISYNC sarah03, am i cool now`
`01:09.15`	`sarah03`	`canllaith: It's got a PRISM-II chipset, configured as wi0 on NetBSD-2.0. So unless NetBSD somehow obtained non-native drivers for the card while I wasn't looking...`
`01:09.27`	`canllaith`	`Nah, PRISM2 has decent support. Nice!`
`01:09.29`	`rendie`	`then i got the DELL ULTRASHARP LCD 19INCH`
`01:09.33`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: that dell 24" is sic!! i saw that a while ago :) i want like 3`
`01:09.46`	`*** join/#kde mpee (~konversat@bh02i525f01.au.ibm.com)`
`01:09.47`	`canllaith`	`with ndiswrapper :\`
`01:09.56`	`canllaith`	`Stealing the wireless card from his powerbook ;)`
`01:09.58`	`gregday_`	`ndiswrapper is kind of an evil compromise`
`01:10.01`	`rendie`	`hey sarah03 r u proud of me`
`01:10.01`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: hehe`
`01:10.11`	`Garibaldi`	`Hey folks, my kmail is busted. Says "kmail: ERROR: The resource '/home/adalton/.kde3.4/share/apps/kabc/std.vcf' is locked by application ''. kmail: ERROR: Unable to save to resource 'resource'. It is locked.`
`01:10.15`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: i don't think i could handle the 12" i've got friends who have them and i cringe....15" would be a minimum, tho i'd want 17"`
`01:10.16`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: did you notice the X5 only claims to support flac compression level 0, 1, and 2?`
`01:10.22`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: the default is 5, I typically use 8`
`01:10.32`	`Garibaldi`	`any idea how to fix that?`
`01:10.38`	`sarah03`	`canllaith: If I want to use the Motorola thing that I bought a few days ago, I'd have to deal with ndiswrapper, too. So...`
`01:10.45`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: So when you're at home you use the 1600x1200 on your desktop, the laptop is for times you normally wouldn't have a computer.`
`01:11.05`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: yeah same, don't worry though, theres always firmware releases, and if needs be, a clever script will do the job`
`01:11.08`	`sarah03`	`My laptop is for those times when I don't feel like sitting in front of my desktop machine.`
`01:11.23`	`sarah03`	`Or when I'm not at home and can find an open AP. :D`
`01:11.25`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: you ever heard of the turtle beach audiotron?`
`01:11.28`	`canllaith`	`:)`
`01:12.02`	`rendie`	`sarah03 talk to me, why do you treat me like trash`
`01:12.15`	`Garibaldi`	`I'm using kde 3.4.0`
`01:12.17`	`Garibaldi`	`gentoo`
`01:12.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`canllaith: yeah.....its just with you talking about liking your laptop better, and a certain other kde dev blogging about taking a laptop to a k(organiser?) hackathon i get worried`
`01:12.31`	`rendie`	`im using kde 4.5.0 slack`
`01:12.36`	`Garibaldi`	`Get a popup - "KMail encountered a fatal error and will terminate now"`
`01:12.43`	`canllaith`	`worried? Why worried? :\`
`01:12.52`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: no i don't think so`
`01:13.11`	`canllaith`	`Lord-Phoenix: the low resolution is kinda annoying, but it's a reasonable tradeoff for portability. I wouldn't replace my desktop with a laptop, but it's nice to have.`
`01:13.33`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: it catalouges (sp?) music on samba shares and plays it back.. mp3, wma, and wav files`
`01:13.44`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: it's a stereo component`
`01:13.58`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: it's discontinued, but it was a bit unique in how it worked..`
`01:14.01`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: does it have a website somewhere?`
`01:14.18`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: I'd do a google search for audiotron, and turtle beach might still have info on it`
`01:14.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`oh :( sounds cool though`
`01:14.44`	`gregday_`	`rendie: kde 4.5.0?`
`01:14.46`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: anyways, I'm writing samba plugin to decode ogg and flac on the fly server side and present it to clients as a wav file`
`01:15.02`	`rendie`	`gregday_, yea made it myself`
`01:15.07`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: so the audiotron can play ogg and flac by being tricked into thinking they are wav`
`01:15.14`	`rendie`	`im one of the devs...its in alpha stages`
`01:15.31`	`gregday_`	`..........right`
`01:15.41`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: the audiotron also supports tags in wav files (not mp3 tags.. it uses an existing but widely unused standard in the wav format)`
`01:15.55`	`rendie`	`i am right, thank u for pointing that out`
`01:15.56`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: but it can also read a pre generated index file that can contain tag info`
`01:16.21`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: I was hoping you'd have heard about it and owned one so I could finally have a tester :)`
`01:16.36`	`canllaith`	`ack. I turn coloured nicks on and immediately it makes MrGrim pink.`
`01:16.40`	`sarah03`	`lol`
`01:16.50`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: I only have ogg support atm.. but it seems to work with a few kinks... you'd laugh at the hacks I had to do to get it to work properly too`
`01:16.55`	`MrGrim`	`haha`
`01:17.02`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: you're a plesant purple to me :)`
`01:17.15`	`canllaith`	`It doesn't go with your name I'm afraid MrGrim. You should be a dark grey or green or something, something GRIM`
`01:17.30`	`sarah03`	`Hm. Everyone is a nice pleasant gray to me.`
`01:17.30`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: you a coder?`
`01:18.15`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: naw stay in bed`
`01:18.22`	`Tm_T`	`haha`
`01:18.27`	`MrGrim`	`if bruce is cool then he'd be jealous`
`01:18.31`	`canllaith`	`heh`
`01:18.31`	`MrGrim`	`and admire that youc ould today`
`01:18.35`	`Tm_T`	`MrGrim: coloured nicks... yuck`
`01:18.39`	`canllaith`	`He's out to lunch with mates.`
`01:18.47`	`MrGrim`	`Tm_T: helps keep track of conversation flow at a glance`
`01:18.53`	`Tm_T`	`nah`
`01:19.24`	`canllaith`	`Hrm it does help, I really like irssi nickcolor script and konvi's built in stuff`
`01:19.30`	`MrGrim`	`i.e. I can tell when Lord-Phoenix has replied to me at a glance from the color of his nick, and I can see that faster than Ic an read the nick`
`01:19.35`	`canllaith`	`except on the casio which is black and white :)`
`01:19.35`	`Tm_T`	`canllaith: traitor!`
`01:19.39`	`gregday_`	`canllaith is hot pink here`
`01:19.45`	`canllaith`	`woooooooooo baby, hot pink!`
`01:19.46`	`*** join/#kde jorgp_ (~jorgp@bnet-dial2-219.bartnet.net)`
`01:19.57`	`gregday_`	`sarah03 and MrGrim are the same color for some reason`
`01:20.13`	`Tm_T`	`MrGrim: heh, hilight is good thing`
`01:20.21`	`gregday_`	`hm...has anyone ever seen them both together in the same room...... :tinfoil:`
`01:20.27`	`MrGrim`	`w/ a combination of nick color and length along with keyword highlighting I can usually glance over the nick faster than I can read it and still ne fully aware of who I am talking to`
`01:20.29`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: hang on a moment just got a call`
`01:20.44`	`Garibaldi`	`Hey folks, my kmail is busted. Says "kmail: ERROR: The resource '/home/adalton/.kde3.4/share/apps/kabc/std.vcf' is locked by application ''. kmail: ERROR: Unable to save to resource 'resource'. It is locked.`
`01:20.52`	`Garibaldi`	`I'm using kde 3.4.0 (Gentoo)`
`01:20.57`	`*** join/#kde Ci-Dev_ (~ci-dev@p54BDDC2C.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:21.03`	`Garibaldi`	`any idea how to resolve that? I've removed the lock and restarted kde`
`01:21.05`	`MrGrim`	`Garibaldi: have you tried restarting X or rebooting?`
`01:21.12`	`Tm_T`	`why most of problems occur in gentoo?`
`01:21.13`	`Garibaldi`	`it worked for a while, then the same error came back`
`01:21.13`	`canllaith`	`With me it's not reading the nicks, that's fast... but if I notice MrGrim say something to Lord-Phoenix that makes me wonder what the previous statement was, I can scroll up looking for Lord-Phoenix 's colour.`
`01:21.22`	`Garibaldi`	`MrGrim: ya`
`01:21.29`	`MrGrim`	`Tm_T: it's the price you pay for flexability`
`01:21.36`	`Tm_T`	`haha`
`01:21.37`	`MrGrim`	`which is why I always get onto newbs for using an advanced distro`
`01:21.49`	`MrGrim`	`imnsho if you use gentoo you shoul dbe capable of debugging and fixing its various problems on your own`
`01:22.03`	`sarah03`	`It's usually the price you pay for ricing your system.`
`01:22.09`	`MrGrim`	`canllaith: ya that too`
`01:22.21`	`rendie`	`hey`
`01:22.22`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: not all gentoo users rice their system :)`
`01:22.31`	`rendie`	`and for you sarah`
`01:22.33`	`sarah03`	`MrGrim: I'm quite keenly aware of that. :)`
`01:22.46`	`canllaith`	`oh leave her alone you troll`
`01:22.50`	`sarah03`	`CFLAGS="-O2 -march=athlon -pipe"`
`01:22.55`	`rendie`	`quit talking amonst yourselves`
`01:22.59`	`*** mode/#kde [+o canllaith] by ChanServ`
`01:23.02`	`*** part/#kde rendie (~rendie@ppp-69-230-85-170.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)`
`01:23.07`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: yeah i'm a coder when i have the time for it`
`01:23.08`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: the most ricing I do is -O3 and -fomit-frame-pointer`
`01:23.19`	`Garibaldi`	`MrGrim: same here`
`01:23.39`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: listen to this then you might enjoy it.. what I had to do to get on the fly ogg decoding to work w/ the audiotron`
`01:23.42`	`Garibaldi`	`and at any rate, I've had this going for almost 2 months. I'd think if it were a 'ricing' issue, I would have had the problem originally`
`01:23.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: mostly though, i'm a comp-sci student which mean part-coding anyway`
`01:23.49`	`Garibaldi`	`but this just started today`
`01:24.18`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: apparantly the audiotron has practically no headroom in cpu power.. it has JUST enough to do what it advertises it does`
`01:24.23`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`are we talking funroll-loops here?`
`01:24.31`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: my first implementation had the decoding of the vorbis stream in the read vfs routine`
`01:24.46`	`sarah03`	`Garibaldi: I haven't a clue why - but that's mostly because I don't use kmail. I haven't really ever found a GUI mail client that I like, though.`
`01:24.52`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: apparantly the small delay that added to the read loop caused skipping in the audiotron`
`01:24.59`	`MrGrim`	`as precious cpu cycles were wasted waiting for the decoder`
`01:25.08`	`MrGrim`	`or the read routein to exit`
`01:25.09`	`Garibaldi`	`sarah03: mutt? :-)`
`01:25.13`	`sarah03`	`Garibaldi: pine`
`01:25.21`	`Garibaldi`	`ugh :-P`
`01:25.25`	`Garibaldi`	`don't care for pico`
`01:25.32`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: so I ended up using a forked process and a mmap area to communicate between the two`
`01:25.38`	`MrGrim`	`and moved the decoder to the forked process`
`01:25.46`	`MrGrim`	`so I could slim up the read routine as much as possible`
`01:25.55`	`MrGrim`	`anyways... it made the entire implementation rediculously complex`
`01:26.01`	`MrGrim`	`but it succeeded in eliminating the skipping`
`01:26.06`	`sarah03`	`Garibaldi: Old habits die hard. Pine was my first actual mail client, and will probably be the one that I end up using until I find one that I like better.`
`01:26.08`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: heh, nice :)`
`01:26.56`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: programming on limited devices is not fun....had some issues like that recently when working with lego robots, though not that bad thank god :)`
`01:27.03`	`Garibaldi`	`sarah03: I use mutt 'cause it lets me use vim as the editor`
`01:27.08`	`Garibaldi`	`use to use elm`
`01:27.19`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: it's not ideal yet.. what I currently do is mmap a file in /tmp and do a full on decode of the entire stream to the file as fast as the forked process can do it.. and the read routine has a tiny loop to make sure it's gotten far enough in the decode to play the area of the wav to read is requesting`
`01:27.20`	`Garibaldi`	`but I like kmail for a gui env`
`01:27.28`	`Garibaldi`	`(if I can get it working again)`
`01:27.35`	`MrGrim`	`I have an idea for a buffering system that'll keep the read routine slim`
`01:27.47`	`MrGrim`	`and not use up so much virtual address space, and not need a file in /tmp`
`01:28.21`	`MrGrim`	`I just haven't gotten around to implementing it yet`
`01:28.27`	`sarah03`	`Mm. Well, the phone just came back.`
`01:28.30`	`MrGrim`	`it should be really slick when I do tho..`
`01:28.57`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: I enjoyed this... that module is the first time I dived this deep into linux coding.. first time I ever used fork or mmap or waitpid etc.`
`01:29.10`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: and the solution, tho complex, will be quite eloquent when I finish it`
`01:29.15`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: heh, i'm probably the worst at that sort of programming`
`01:29.41`	`MrGrim`	`I just wish I knew one other person with an audiotron that uses a samba server`
`01:29.43`	`MrGrim`	`and wants ogg support`
`01:29.50`	`MrGrim`	`so I could have at least one tester`
`01:29.50`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i like to keep my architecture and design as nice and clean as possible`
`01:30.05`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: which sacrifices oodles of optimization`
`01:30.08`	`*** part/#kde can\|mac (~jhall@203-79-97-40.paradise.net.nz)`
`01:30.13`	`*** join/#kde can\|mac (~jhall@203-79-97-40.paradise.net.nz)`
`01:30.19`	`can\|mac`	`oops, that was the wrong button`
`01:30.21`	`sarah03`	`Ahh. DSL upstream is back to normal, finally.`
`01:30.33`	`can\|mac`	`oh, you have DSL now sarah03 ? :D`
`01:30.37`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: well I love a challenge... and working within samba's inability to handle multithreaded modules and making the read routine as slim as possible was quite a challenge`
`01:30.44`	`MrGrim`	`and I think I came up with a very neat solution`
`01:30.49`	`sarah03`	`can\|mac: 3.3Mbit downstream, 832kbit upstream. :D`
`01:30.53`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: my first dive into linux programming was a gui-style frontend to bash`
`01:30.56`	`can\|mac`	`fucking suhweet!`
`01:31.00`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: the whole idea here was to optimize the read routine`
`01:31.19`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: that sort of programming is really cool and rewarding once you get into it though :)`
`01:31.29`	`sarah03`	`Telco managed to fuck up the phone line over the past few days, though, so we had DSL and no telephone.`
`01:31.32`	`can\|mac`	`sarah03, beats my cable =p`
`01:31.42`	`*** join/#kde straw (~strawman@stjh1-4967.nb.aliant.net)`
`01:31.51`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: well I first started coding on old systems w/ dos`
`01:31.52`	`sarah03`	`The phone service just got fixed not long ago, as far as I can tell, because it just rang in my mom's room.`
`01:31.56`	`MrGrim`	`8086 old, not the oldest`
`01:31.59`	`can\|mac`	`cool :)`
`01:32.00`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`hmm.....my samba is a bit \/\/34k at the moment :)`
`01:32.14`	`MrGrim`	`but old enough to appreciate clever design to optimize a crucial routine`
`01:32.42`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i had a look at basic and didn't like it so i snobbed programming until later on when i learned java and c`
`01:32.44`	`sarah03`	`can\|mac: It's also where the wireless stuff came from - the promotion for signing up for DSL was that they sent you a wireless router. :D`
`01:32.55`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: anyways, if you can find an audiotron in good condition pick it up.. you will need an ethernet port near your stereo.. or an 802.11b bridge`
`01:33.01`	`*** join/#kde darthpwnt (the@alone.user)`
`01:33.03`	`darthpwnt`	`hi!`
`01:33.08`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: but I promise at least ogg support :)`
`01:33.08`	`darthpwnt`	`whens .1 coming?`
`01:33.13`	`darthpwnt`	`soon like 2 days?`
`01:33.17`	`MrGrim`	`libFLAC is a wee bit more complicated than libvorbisfile tho`
`01:33.26`	`MrGrim`	`I can do it.. it'll just be a pain`
`01:33.30`	`*** join/#kde mud (~mud@CPE000f660c6997-CM0011ae8fd786.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:33.48`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: and I think I know you well enough by now to think you'd like it`
`01:34.11`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: heh, my pc is my stereo....which is why i really have to quiet it when i get around to it`
`01:34.27`	`MrGrim`	`I've done a lot of work quieting my system`
`01:34.35`	`MrGrim`	`it's not where I want it... but if you could hear the difference`
`01:34.40`	`MrGrim`	`.. I did a good job so far :)`
`01:34.47`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`but i'd totally love something like the audiotron`
`01:35.07`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: my cpu is cooled by a 92mm fan spinning at 2100rpm, my gpu is passively cooled, I have an antec quiet psu`
`01:35.20`	`MrGrim`	`which also controls my case fans that spin slow`
`01:35.28`	`MrGrim`	`I still have a total of 5 fans in my system`
`01:35.39`	`MrGrim`	`my barracuda IV hdd rocks`
`01:35.41`	`Ni7r0`	`Hi how can i run that KDE setup again, i saw it when i run KDE for the first time, but i clicked it away to soon :/`
`01:35.53`	`MrGrim`	`Ni7r0: the wizard?`
`01:35.57`	`Ni7r0`	`yep`
`01:36.07`	`MrGrim`	`Ni7r0: you can change everything it presents in the kde control center`
`01:36.20`	`MrGrim`	`it can be run again`
`01:36.23`	`MrGrim`	`I'm not sure how tho`
`01:36.39`	`MrGrim`	`Ni7r0: did you not mean to "click it away"?`
`01:36.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: mind you, if theres anything a geek loves, its a gadget, and for ppl like us, audio gadgets are even better`
`01:36.53`	`MrGrim`	`hehe`
`01:37.04`	`Ni7r0`	`yeah i clicked to fast on cancel`
`01:37.27`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: my pc is also my stereo.. but that's only cause I still live w/ my folks`
`01:37.35`	`Garibaldi`	`so, nobody has any ideas about my kmail error?`
`01:37.36`	`MrGrim`	`when I move out it'll be my stereo in my bedroom`
`01:37.43`	`MrGrim`	`and I will get an audiotron for the tv room`
`01:37.49`	`MrGrim`	`to access the music on my pc`
`01:38.17`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i want to 5v or 7v all the fans i need in my case (including PSU fans....my PSU is a 650w and a noisy bastard)`
`01:38.36`	`MrGrim`	`wow... what kinda system you got that needs a 650 watt psu?`
`01:38.40`	`sarah03`	`Yee.`
`01:38.48`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=338285`
`01:39.01`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: silentpcreview.com has links to some highly efficient and extremely silent psu's`
`01:39.04`	`MrGrim`	`don't remember the brand`
`01:39.12`	`MrGrim`	`but they hit efficiency in the lower 90th percentile`
`01:39.17`	`sarah03`	`I've only got a wee itty bitty 300W PSU in my system right now.`
`01:39.19`	`*** join/#kde NumPy (500@cpe-66-25-254-156.gt.res.rr.com)`
`01:39.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: oh, its an amd64 system, but that power supply is completely unneccesary, i got it because for a while i thought i was having power troubles`
`01:39.25`	`MrGrim`	`so they need little cooling`
`01:39.30`	`MrGrim`	`and so are very quiet`
`01:40.01`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: I had an old generic antec 300 watt psu in my system... I WAS having power issues with it`
`01:40.10`	`MrGrim`	`power issues that liked to eat dimms`
`01:40.27`	`MrGrim`	`I went through 3 512 sticks before I found the problem`
`01:40.31`	`sarah03`	`MrGrim: Can't say I've had any power issues with my machine; more CPU fan issues.`
`01:40.48`	`MrGrim`	`fortunately the last 2 cpu fans I had made noise before failure`
`01:41.02`	`sarah03`	`My CPU fan never quite failed.`
`01:41.07`	`MrGrim`	`tho I had a gou fan fail w/ warning once`
`01:41.12`	`MrGrim`	`I thought my monitor was going bad`
`01:41.12`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: my next purchase is likely to be....let me find it`
`01:41.17`	`MrGrim`	`blur and bad color etc`
`01:41.29`	`MrGrim`	`gpu*`
`01:41.37`	`MrGrim`	`that was my old and trusty geforce256 ddr`
`01:41.40`	`Dhraakellian`	`sound system isn't wanting to start`
`01:41.41`	`sarah03`	`The CPU fan just got to the point that it was incapable of cooling my processor effectively.`
`01:41.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i almost lost my mobo to a cpu cooler that was shorting my mobo out`
`01:41.57`	`sarah03`	`Bearings failed.`
`01:41.59`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm...`
`01:42.44`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: damn that pus is overkill for a dual dual opteron system with 3 optical drives and 4 10k rpm hdds :P`
`01:42.48`	`MrGrim`	`psu*`
`01:43.18`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: ya .. I've replaced the fan on mine twice.. I know how it goes`
`01:43.43`	`MrGrim`	`enermax's are reliable`
`01:43.46`	`can\|mac`	`Yup yup`
`01:43.52`	`sarah03`	`I popped the fan off of a P4 CPU cooler that was floating around and tossed it into my Athlon box.`
`01:43.52`	`MrGrim`	`tho not as efficient and quiet as I'd like`
`01:44.08`	`can\|mac`	`Yeah it could be a bit more quiet. It's much quieter than the crappy 300w that came with this case.`
`01:44.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: yeah, tell me about it`
`01:44.33`	`MrGrim`	`sarah03: the nice thing about my heatsink is it's designed for your standard 92mm case fan :P`
`01:45.06`	`MrGrim`	`don't even need to take it off the cpu thank god`
`01:45.23`	`MrGrim`	`I freak every time I have a need to change or simply remove my heatsink for a bit`
`01:45.28`	`MrGrim`	`so worried I'm gonna fuck up the core`
`01:45.35`	`*** join/#kde mankind_tweezer (~andy@140.247.143.130)`
`01:45.42`	`*** part/#kde Garibaldi (~adalton@host-64-139-244-207.nctv.com)`
`01:45.49`	`sarah03`	`I'm not worried so much about it because I could spend $20 on a new processor.`
`01:45.56`	`sarah03`	`At most.`
`01:45.59`	`MrGrim`	`one time in an effort to get the clip off I was using a knife to press down on the tab that you use to get the clip off`
`01:46.02`	`MrGrim`	`and the knife slipped`
`01:46.09`	`MrGrim`	`I have a huge chunk taken out of my mobo where that happened`
`01:46.17`	`sarah03`	`That's what Thunderbird-series Athlon processors go for these days, I imagine.`
`01:46.29`	`MrGrim`	`I still thank the heavens for my dumb luck`
`01:46.29`	`gregday_`	`MrGrim: custom form factor :)`
`01:46.33`	`MrGrim`	`that I hit nothing`
`01:46.43`	`sarah03`	`MrGrim: Heh, ick.`
`01:46.45`	`MrGrim`	`cause the mobo still works flawless :D`
`01:46.46`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: be afraid, be VERY afraid....last time i had my cpu out, i dropped it, and bent 3 of the pins!!!! F*CK`
`01:47.05`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: bent pins are only bad if you break them bending them back :P`
`01:47.16`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: thank god for tweezers && needle-nose pliers is all i can say O_O`
`01:47.23`	`sarah03`	`I've managed to bend pins on my CPUs before.. usually I find that I can bend them back with a credit card or such.`
`01:47.38`	`gregday_`	`the edge of a flathead screwdriver will do it too`
`01:47.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: it was when my cpu was brand new, it didn't feel like such a small thing at the time :)`
`01:47.53`	`*** join/#kde strangeintp (~vince@ip24-255-100-63.dc.dc.cox.net)`
`01:47.53`	`MrGrim`	`this kinda stuff is part of what makes messing around w/ the guts of your pc fun tho... cause damn it can get intense`
`01:47.55`	`gregday_`	`when you're really desparate, needle nose plier`
`01:48.02`	`can\|mac`	`They require so much fucking force to get them clipped dow`
`01:48.02`	`MrGrim`	`you fuck up... you pull that ultimate jury rig to fix it`
`01:48.07`	`MrGrim`	`put it all together`
`01:48.10`	`MrGrim`	`and pray like hell when you turn it on`
`01:48.13`	`can\|mac`	`I'm always so scared I'm going to slip with the screwdriver and take a chunk out of something`
`01:48.19`	`gregday_`	`can\|mac: the P4 heatsinks likewise scare the bejeezus out of me`
`01:48.20`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`gregday_: 939 pins is a lot, and they were positioned so to would be hard to use a screwdriver like that`
`01:48.24`	`MrGrim`	`then it works and you go drink yourself stupid to celebrate`
`01:48.30`	`MrGrim`	`I love working on pc hardware :D`
`01:48.42`	`can\|mac`	`and mac hardware, and any other kind. Just hardware yknow? :P`
`01:48.59`	`MrGrim`	`can\|mac: you saw where I did slip once right? :P`
`01:49.03`	`can\|mac`	`MrGrim, no?`
`01:49.06`	`sarah03`	`I remember frying my Apple IIe way back when.`
`01:49.17`	`MrGrim`	`can\|mac: just a few minutes ago.. I was using a knife instead of a screndriver`
`01:49.22`	`can\|mac`	`Youch`
`01:49.25`	`*** join/#kde strangeintp (~vince@ip24-255-100-63.dc.dc.cox.net)`
`01:49.26`	`sarah03`	`Fortunately those were easy to repair.`
`01:49.28`	`MrGrim`	`I have about a 3mm chunk taken out of my mobo`
`01:49.41`	`MrGrim`	`and it still works`
`01:49.41`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i've been thinking about this: http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=339011 its apparently very good`
`01:49.42`	`MrGrim`	`perfectly`
`01:49.45`	`sarah03`	`Lots of socketed chips, and easily avalible at any electronics store.`
`01:49.45`	`sarah03`	`:D`
`01:50.18`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: whoa.. this is my first time seeing that`
`01:50.25`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: you'd need good case cooling`
`01:50.31`	`*** join/#kde Anon5254 (~Anon5254@mail.neteffects.com.au)`
`01:50.48`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: god it weighs nearly 0.7kg too`
`01:51.11`	`*** join/#kde mud (~mud@CPE000f660c6997-CM0011ae8fd786.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:51.18`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: apparently not, just minimal airflow and the heatpumps do their job nicely`
`01:51.21`	`can\|mac`	`fugging emacs.`
`01:51.40`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: ya my fanless gpu cooler is a dual heatpipe zalman beast`
`01:51.49`	`MrGrim`	`w/ the blue alluminum`
`01:51.56`	`MrGrim`	`those heatpipes get quite hot`
`01:52.22`	`*** join/#kde mud (~mud@CPE000f660c6997-CM0011ae8fd786.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:52.51`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: that thing better be effective`
`01:52.59`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: just looking at its size and weight`
`01:53.03`	`MrGrim`	`that is one hefty heatsink`
`01:53.06`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: i'm currently using the stock cooler, but my last cooler was the previous version of this: http://www.ascent.co.nz/mn-product-spec.asp?pid=254257`
`01:54.09`	`MrGrim`	`not that I think about it.. my oc'd thunderbord puts out as much, if not more heat than newer revision athlon64's`
`01:54.15`	`*** join/#kde bryan (~bryan@68.33.132.153)`
`01:54.20`	`MrGrim`	`amd has made them very efficient these days`
`01:54.24`	`MrGrim`	`s/not/now`
`01:54.30`	`MrGrim`	`and it isn't that hard to cool quietly`
`01:54.48`	`MrGrim`	`that zalman heatsink may do the trick`
`01:55.35`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: athlon64's put out all of f*ckall`
`01:55.49`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`especially the new venice cores`
`01:55.56`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page1.html`
`01:56.00`	`MrGrim`	`you might want to read that`
`01:56.16`	`MrGrim`	`the entire article is very informative`
`01:56.20`	`MrGrim`	`a very good read`
`01:57.35`	`*** join/#kde mud (~mud@CPE000f660c6997-CM0011ae8fd786.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:57.49`	`Tm_T`	`eh, not funny`
`01:58.09`	`Tm_T`	`konqi crashes if I try to open rightclickmenu`
`01:58.24`	`*** join/#kde halcyonCorsair (~epahl@60-234-142-206.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)`
`01:58.33`	`MrGrim`	`Lord-Phoenix: http://www.seasonicusa.com/products.php?lineId=9`
`01:58.44`	`MrGrim`	`that's currently the best psu you can get imho`
`01:58.49`	`MrGrim`	`extremely well made, extremely quiet`
`01:58.55`	`MrGrim`	`and a very nice featureset`
`01:59.10`	`halcyonCorsair`	`hmm, how do you turn on nickname colouring in konversation?`
`01:59.44`	`MrGrim`	`settings -> configure konvi -> colors`
`01:59.55`	`Desiac`	`when i print from kmail, there aren't any margins defined, when i set them they revert back to no setting after logout/reboot. I have the same problem with the language settings, i set my default location and language, and it reverts back to US, causing problems with spellchecking. just wondering if anyone can help me out or tell me where these details would be retreived from, thnx`
`02:00.54`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`the i lower the voltage on the PSU fans it should be quiet enough for now, i have other priorities for the moment unfortunately :(`
`02:02.30`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`MrGrim: hey i've seen this PSU before...i think my flatmate showed it to me, hes totally into keeping everything cool and silent too....hes just a little more proactive than i am :)`
`02:03.25`	`Tm_T`	`hmm, looks like I broke menuitem :/`
`02:04.02`	`*** join/#kde Garibaldi (~adalton@host-64-139-244-207.nctv.com)`
`02:04.18`	`Garibaldi`	`Hey folks, I found out what the problem was... my partition was full`
`02:04.27`	`MrGrim`	`http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/6ca9/\`
`02:04.29`	`MrGrim`	`erm`
`02:04.31`	`MrGrim`	`http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/drives/6ca9/`
`02:04.50`	`Garibaldi`	`I'm not use to using separate partitions, didn't think to check that`
`02:05.01`	`Garibaldi`	`just thought I'd let you know it wasn't a kmail problem :-)`
`02:05.09`	`Garibaldi`	`sorry to have troubled you`
`02:05.11`	`*** part/#kde Garibaldi (~adalton@host-64-139-244-207.nctv.com)`
`02:05.29`	`*** join/#kde mpupu (~mpupu@host143.201-252-139.telecom.net.ar)`
`02:06.21`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`he was nice and polite`
`02:06.38`	`*** join/#kde _mud (~mud@CPE000f660c6997-CM0011ae8fd786.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`02:06.40`	`*** join/#kde xomp (~xomp@68-232-32-179.pittpa.adelphia.net)`
`02:06.42`	`halcyonCorsair`	`hmm, coloured nicknames`
`02:07.06`	`Tm_T`	`no`
`02:07.50`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`oh? but Tm_T, you're the first one`
`02:08.55`	`Tm_T`	`first what?`
`02:09.23`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`first coloured nickname since i turned them on in xchat`
`02:09.31`	`Tm_T`	`:/`
`02:09.53`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`you get a sortof....light-brown`
`02:11.32`	`*** join/#kde omni_lonnie (~lonnie@home.limbonia.com)`
`02:11.58`	`Tm_T`	`nice and calm, not too bright I hope`
`02:13.56`	`*** join/#kde stampede (~henrique@201.19.167.24)`
`02:14.23`	`*** join/#kde jkeel (~joshua@kmc-ras1-p42.intrstar.net)`
`02:15.02`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`absolutely`
`02:17.02`	`*** part/#kde jkeel (~joshua@kmc-ras1-p42.intrstar.net)`
`02:18.41`	`termo`	`jo`
`02:19.13`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`right...i'm too tired, i gotta sleep`
`02:19.15`	`Lord-Phoenix`	`later all`
`02:20.01`	`termo`	`that was about my line`
`02:23.49`	`*** join/#kde Roey (~Roey@pcp04370251pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`02:23.50`	`Roey`	`hi`
`02:23.57`	`Roey`	`does IBM help out KDE any?`
`02:24.11`	`Roey`	`(what's IBM's linux distro for the moment, red hat?)`
`02:24.23`	`*** join/#kde gregday_ (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`02:24.44`	`sarah03`	`Netscape 8 requires IE.`
`02:25.07`	`Roey`	`cute :)`
`02:25.28`	`Tm_T`	`xD`
`02:28.02`	`*** join/#kde newpers (newpers@ip68-3-127-171.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`02:28.19`	`newpers`	`i can't find a good xchat or gaim icon. any recommendations on where I should look`
`02:28.19`	`straw`	`IT: Netscape 8 Breaks IE XML`
`02:28.42`	`Tm_T`	`newpers: default? ;)`
`02:28.51`	`newpers`	`nahh`
`02:29.11`	`stampede`	`newpers: use the konversation and kopete icons from nuvola... or use konversation and kopete :)`
`02:29.28`	`Tm_T`	`or use irssi ;)`
`02:29.39`	`Roey`	`what an ironic end for netscape navigator... what started life as a killer app ends it as an also-run add-on to IE.`
`02:29.42`	`newpers`	`i like to screen irssi, but use xchat in X`
`02:30.03`	`Tm_T`	`why?`
`02:30.16`	`newpers`	`because I like the way it looks`
`02:30.30`	`Tm_T`	`hmh`
`02:30.37`	`Tm_T`	`and I dislike it =)`
`02:30.43`	`Tm_T`	`I like how irssi looks =)`
`02:30.46`	`newpers`	`i like how the tabs light up when there is activity in the channels and it says the channel name instead the channel number`
`02:31.07`	`Tm_T`	`newpers: it's not channel number, it's window number`
`02:31.08`	`newpers`	`where i can click on it`
`02:31.15`	`newpers`	`yeah, that's what i mean`
`02:31.16`	`newpers`	`t`
`02:31.22`	`Tm_T`	`newpers: yes, but then you have to use mouse`
`02:31.28`	`Tm_T`	`and that's slow`
`02:31.38`	`newpers`	`i'm addicted to clicking things`
`02:31.41`	`newpers`	`it's hypnotic`
`02:31.45`	`Tm_T`	`:p`
`02:32.17`	`newpers`	`:)`
`02:32.17`	`stampede`	`newpers: what's wrong with Konvi? I love the osd thingy :)`
`02:32.17`	`Tm_T`	`I try to avoid mouse, it's slow and inaccurate`
`02:34.08`	`*** join/#kde absinthe (~absinthe@absinthe.developer.gentoo)`
`02:35.58`	`kendrick`	`you don't need the mouse much in KDE`
`02:36.37`	`*** join/#kde Alethes (pennywise@alethes.user)`
`02:37.44`	`*** join/#kde morkeleb (~fredrik@84.217.124.17)`
`02:38.03`	`Alethes`	`anybody have any suggestions as to how I might actually get the --config option for konqueror to work?`
`02:38.20`	`Alethes`	`I'd like to konq with two different pref files completely`
`02:39.49`	`*** join/#kde aalam (~aalam@202.41.228.162)`
`02:40.44`	`stampede`	`Alethes: can't you use profiles?`
`02:40.50`	`Alethes`	`not for my purposes`
`02:41.57`	`*** part/#kde mpupu (~mpupu@host143.201-252-139.telecom.net.ar)`
`02:43.31`	`*** join/#kde doleyb (~doleyb@209-150-58-115.c3-0.wob-ubr2.sbo-wob.ma.cable.rcn.com)`
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`02:58.02`	`mankind_tweezer`	`hi -- can anyone who uses audio and "Use KDE sound system" in knotify test something? if i set the volume of notifications to anything less than 100% i get no sounds`
`02:59.05`	`mankind_tweezer`	`(it's configurable in "Player Settings" in the kcontrol module for "System Notifications")`
`03:01.26`	`*** part/#kde newpers (newpers@ip68-3-127-171.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`03:02.36`	`*** join/#kde gregday__ (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
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`03:18.33`	`*** join/#kde cobaltoo (ID@200.81.24.172)`
`03:18.44`	`cobaltoo`	`loosers xfce is better than kde :P`
`03:19.10`	`cobaltoo`	`with many color you stay looking this like a monkey with glasses`
`03:19.11`	`cobaltoo`	`:\|`
`03:19.22`	`cobaltoo`	`s`
`03:20.36`	`Alethes`	`y'know, we might consider what you're saying if you didn't talk like you ride the short bus to school`
`03:21.01`	`cobaltoo`	`...`
`03:21.08`	`cobaltoo`	`that is a joke or wtf ?`
`03:21.24`	`Alethes`	`sadly, it's not a joke`
`03:21.28`	`Alethes`	`I was being serious :)`
`03:22.24`	`cobaltoo`	`pufff`
`03:22.46`	`cobaltoo`	`be honest with your self ... admit it :\|`
`03:22.51`	`cobaltoo`	`xfce is better`
`03:23.18`	`Alethes`	`so let me get this straight`
`03:23.26`	`Alethes`	`did you come to #kde to tell us about xfce?`
`03:23.33`	`Alethes`	`are you really that stupid?`
`03:23.45`	`cobaltoo`	`hahahahah`
`03:23.53`	`*** join/#kde oggb4mp3 (~konvi-hom@ny-lancastr-cadent1-grp4a-a-60.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`03:24.04`	`cobaltoo`	`you become gay or what ...`
`03:24.25`	`cobaltoo`	`yep`
`03:24.36`	`cobaltoo`	`i came to this channel to talk about xfce ...`
`03:25.01`	`cobaltoo`	`while i drink mi chocolate`
`03:25.17`	`Alethes`	`#xfce is down the hall and to the right`
`03:26.01`	`cobaltoo`	`lets see ...`
`03:26.08`	`cobaltoo`	`kde got many security error`
`03:26.09`	`cobaltoo`	`is slow`
`03:26.18`	`cobaltoo`	`require more memory`
`03:26.28`	`cobaltoo`	`and content worst app`
`03:26.53`	`cobaltoo`	`the chocolate turn me mad :\|`
`03:27.24`	`Alethes`	`are you saying this stuff because you actually think you might convince somebody to agree with you?`
`03:27.29`	`jamesd`	`damm who ever rented the troll please spring for one that has at least 1/2 a brain and a clue`
`03:28.00`	`jamesd`	`next time`
`03:28.34`	`chavo`	`He was the only one left at Trolls-R-Us`
`03:28.57`	`cobaltoo`	`i only told the true ...`
`03:29.04`	`cobaltoo`	`like a good patriot`
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`03:31.22`	`Alethes`	`we'd settle for a halfway coherent sentence at this point -- regardless of the inaccuracies`
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`04:03.40`	`Borg^Queen`	`Hey people I'm trying to install dazuko for clamav and klamav to use with autoscan. But I keep getting these error msg`
`04:03.51`	`Borg^Queen`	`This is the comamnd I'm using /sbin/insmod ./dazuko.ko`
`04:04.15`	`Borg^Queen`	`insmod: error inserting './dazuko.ko': -1 Invalid parameters`
`04:04.22`	`Borg^Queen`	`Is the error I get`
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`04:25.40`	`Quinn_Storm`	`quick question...when you connect a timer to a slot...like with QTimer::singleShot...is there a way to pass a parameter to the slot?`
`04:28.07`	`Quinn_Storm`	`damn, nevermind, apparently you can't`
`04:36.18`	`*** join/#kde mortum (~mortum@84.232.61.27)`
`04:40.13`	`*** join/#kde gregday (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`04:40.22`	`gregday`	`HOLY SHIT when did amarok get a Wiki tab?!`
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`04:47.59`	`eean`	`gregday: a few weeks ago`
`04:48.41`	`Quinn_Storm`	`yeah`
`04:48.42`	`eean`	`Quinn_Storm: hehe, that's an off-topic question for #kde`
`04:48.53`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ah, didn't realize there was a #qt`
`04:48.56`	`eean`	`kde api questions go to #kde-devel :)`
`04:49.02`	`eean`	`didn't realize that either`
`04:49.26`	`eean`	`if your developing a kde app, they don't mind them in kde-devel either`
`04:49.44`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ok, cool, I'm working on hacking at kopete`
`04:49.55`	`eean`	`great`
`04:50.06`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I'm trying to make it retain away status when it auto-reconnects`
`04:50.14`	`eean`	`oh, that makes sense`
`04:50.28`	`eean`	`can you make it compile on my computer? :D`
`04:50.45`	`Quinn_Storm`	`what's your system, eean? gcc ver, kde ver, etc.?`
`04:50.52`	`eean`	`3.4`
`04:50.57`	`eean`	`kde svn`
`04:51.00`	`eean`	`amd64`
`04:51.04`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ah, I don't know about against kde svn on amd64`
`04:51.17`	`eean`	`it tries to compile some linux headers as C++ I think`
`04:51.21`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I am compiling against kde 3.4 on ix86(32)`
`04:51.36`	`Quinn_Storm`	`sounds like it might be an amd64 problem...unsermake or just make?`
`04:51.38`	`eean`	`in the video stuff`
`04:51.42`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ahh yeah`
`04:51.42`	`eean`	`unsermake`
`04:51.49`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I think there's a config option to turn off the video stuff now`
`04:51.56`	`Quinn_Storm`	`check ./configure`
`04:51.56`	`eean`	`really? cool`
`04:51.58`	`eean`	`I will`
`04:52.19`	`eean`	`I'll have a functional kdenetworks :D`
`04:52.34`	`eean`	`I've been missing the bandwidth kicker applet`
`04:53.38`	`Quinn_Storm`	`grr, libkopete is linked against everything so each tiny change to it makes a big relink / recompile (if I change a header file)`
`04:53.52`	`eean`	`thats the deal with header files`
`04:54.00`	`eean`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:54.00`	`eean`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:54.02`	`eean`	`:\|`
`04:54.08`	`Quinn_Storm`	`try --disable-audiovideo`
`04:54.10`	`Quinn_Storm`	`it might be messed up`
`04:54.29`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I know they -said- they added it`
`04:54.42`	`Quinn_Storm`	`maybe they set the default backwards to what the help says`
`04:55.36`	`eean`	`maybe I should file a bug as a sneaky way of getting help with my compile error :D`
`04:55.42`	`Quinn_Storm`	`lol`
`04:55.55`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I think the av stuff has been causing compile errors for lots of people`
`04:56.03`	`eean`	`good`
`04:56.15`	`Quinn_Storm`	`its alpha code...and definately should be off by default in the configure`
`04:56.27`	`eean`	`well, its alpha software`
`04:56.30`	`Quinn_Storm`	`lol`
`04:56.34`	`eean`	`so you can't berudge them for that`
`04:56.38`	`Quinn_Storm`	`yeah`
`04:57.47`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I wish make install could check to see if files differ before installing somehow`
`04:58.01`	`Quinn_Storm`	`kopete is just that huge`
`04:59.12`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ok, fingers crossed time, reconnect patch compiled & installed...gonna see if it works...`
`04:59.24`	`eean`	`Quinn_Storm: err, unsermake install does just that :D`
`04:59.52`	`*** join/#kde Venson (~Venson@user-0cdf60m.cable.mindspring.com)`
`05:00.07`	`Quinn_Storm`	`well maybe I'll learn to use unsermake`
`05:00.14`	`*** join/#kde tamben (~root@adsl-159-195-14.bix.bellsouth.net)`
`05:00.24`	`eean`	`its easy`
`05:00.41`	`eean`	`just google it, you get some nice help for it`
`05:01.03`	`Quinn_Storm`	`cool, is it worth it?`
`05:01.05`	`tamben`	`hey everyone, I am using Gentoo and for some reason I can't get into kde. I have kdeinit in my .xinitrc file, but I am getting some weird errors when I try to load it`
`05:01.53`	`eean`	`Quinn_Storm: yes, you don't have to make clean anymore`
`05:02.03`	`Venson`	`tamben: huh? you should have "exec startkde"`
`05:02.12`	`tamben`	`well I'll try that`
`05:02.14`	`Venson`	`tamben: you dont run kdeinit`
`05:02.28`	`eean`	`kdeinit is for starting kde programs, not for starting kde ;)`
`05:03.05`	`tamben`	`ah, thanks Venson`
`05:03.08`	`tamben`	`that did it`
`05:03.09`	`*** join/#kde _root (~root@ip24-251-194-72.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`05:03.13`	`tamben`	`I had no idea`
`05:03.22`	`tamben`	`all other wms are (wmname)init`
`05:03.29`	`Tm_T`	`hmm`
`05:03.34`	`Tm_T`	`root :p`
`05:03.41`	`tamben`	`thanks again`
`05:04.01`	`_root`	`anyone care to help out a noob? I having a problem with restoring my session after loggin out`
`05:04.25`	`eean`	`you mean you can't get the default programs to open back up?`
`05:04.46`	`eean`	`I mean, you the programs that were open when you closed KDE aren't there when you open?`
`05:05.01`	`_root`	`when i log in as my normal username My session hangs when it says restoring session`
`05:05.02`	`eean`	`when you *start kde`
`05:05.17`	`_root`	`and then nothing else happens. thoough i can move my mouse around`
`05:05.21`	`eean`	`ok`
`05:05.55`	`eean`	`if this happened to me I would move ~/.kde to somewhere else. someone here might be able to actually fix it though :)`
`05:05.57`	`Venson`	`mv ~/.kde ~/.kde-backup ...`
`05:06.13`	`eean`	`or not :D`
`05:06.29`	`_root`	`hmmmm`
`05:06.36`	`Venson`	`well, that's a good thing to try...it will tell us if the problem is with your preferences or with the installation itself`
`05:06.48`	`eean`	`true`
`05:07.01`	`Quinn_Storm`	`gonna try building kopete with unsermake`
`05:07.18`	`eean`	`it ain't rocket science`
`05:07.23`	`Tm_T`	`too easy :/`
`05:07.29`	`Tm_T`	`I can apt-get unsermake :p`
`05:07.34`	`eean`	`hehe`
`05:07.45`	`_root`	`ok im gonna try it brb`
`05:07.55`	`eean`	`it is actually too easy, all the docs say to always use the latest SVN version`
`05:08.00`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I emerged it a while ago but never used it`
`05:08.01`	`eean`	`I'm not sure if that is relevant or not`
`05:08.31`	`eean`	`*still relevant`
`05:09.00`	`Quinn_Storm`	`wondering what the pun of unsermake is as I don't speak german`
`05:09.07`	`eean`	`our-make`
`05:09.16`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ah`
`05:09.19`	`Tm_T`	`eean: well, looks like package is maintained by Riddell :p`
`05:09.28`	`Tm_T`	`so I think it's uptodate`
`05:09.31`	`eean`	`that's probably a good sign :)`
`05:09.40`	`Quinn_Storm`	`I'm figuring that unsermake is gonna have to recompile everything?`
`05:09.45`	`eean`	`yes`
`05:09.49`	`*** join/#kde peppelorum (peppe@8121650250-VISIT-ADSL-LKOPING-NET.host.songnetworks.se)`
`05:09.54`	`eean`	`do a make clean`
`05:10.08`	`eean`	`unsermake caches stuff in hidden directories`
`05:10.25`	`Quinn_Storm`	`make clean calls unsermake clean right now for some reason...maybe its okay`
`05:10.41`	`eean`	`well, its just to save disk space`
`05:10.43`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ah`
`05:10.49`	`eean`	`do export UNSERMAKE=no`
`05:10.55`	`eean`	`to use regular make`
`05:10.58`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ah ok`
`05:11.08`	`*** join/#kde gregday (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`05:11.09`	`*** join/#kde phxguy (~phxguy@ip24-251-194-72.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`05:11.18`	`phxguy`	`Okay im Back`
`05:11.19`	`*** join/#kde gregday (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`05:11.22`	`Tm_T`	`hmm`
`05:11.55`	`Tm_T`	`haha`
`05:11.55`	`phxguy`	`i renamed my .kde directory and i got in my normal login.`
`05:12.02`	`eean`	`yeaa`
`05:12.07`	`phxguy`	`but now all my settings are gone`
`05:12.10`	`eean`	`indeed`
`05:12.25`	`Venson`	`phxguy: yes...we know that'll happen...but can you store/restore session properly now?`
`05:12.36`	`Venson`	`phxguy: your prefs are still there..and can be restored`
`05:12.47`	`acorn`	`how can I make kicker reload a panel applet's library (.so) file?`
`05:12.59`	`phxguy`	`Venson: i would have to log out a few times to know for sure but it loaded my session pretty fast this time`
`05:13.05`	`Venson`	`phxguy: try it`
`05:13.14`	`eean`	`nah, don't try it`
`05:13.14`	`phxguy`	`hold on be back in a few`
`05:13.27`	`Venson`	`eean: we won't know unless he tries`
`05:13.30`	`eean`	`probably there was some program or another that KDE was trying to startup or couldn't`
`05:13.33`	`eean`	`*and couldn't`
`05:13.34`	`phxguy`	`should i try or not.. what do you all think`
`05:13.48`	`eean`	`Venson: computers don't spontaneously change behavior... much ;)`
`05:13.50`	`phxguy`	`wouldn't there be a l og or something`
`05:13.55`	`Quinn_Storm`	`now all I need to do is figure out where in gentoo to add something to my global path...I want unsermake (/usr/kde/unsermake/) to be in it`
`05:14.05`	`eean`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:14.07`	`Venson`	`heh`
`05:14.30`	`eean`	`and then run env-update`
`05:14.33`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ok, gonna make it 97unsermake`
`05:14.34`	`eean`	`and source /etc/profile`
`05:14.38`	`acorn`	`or at least have it unload the .so file. kicker hangs on to it even though it's no longer in the panel and won't let go`
`05:15.09`	`eean`	`acorn: kill kicker and start it from a konsole`
`05:15.16`	`acorn`	`gasp`
`05:15.21`	`eean`	`:)`
`05:16.27`	`*** join/#kde mankind_tweezer (~andy@140.247.143.130)`
`05:16.46`	`phxguy`	`so what shall i do???`
`05:17.13`	`Quinn_Storm`	`ok, well that added it to everyone but root`
`05:17.18`	`Quinn_Storm`	`oh, rootpath`
`05:17.19`	`Quinn_Storm`	`lol`
`05:17.28`	`phxguy`	`how can i restorrrrre my prefs`
`05:20.42`	`Venson`	`phxguy: you could move back your older folder .." mv ~/.kde-backup ~/.kde" ...that'll also bring back the problem you had earlier. We only know so far that the problem is with your prferences, but we don't know which one exactly`
`05:21.35`	`phxguy`	`Venson: ok yeah figured something like that would be the case so how do i find out what is causing the problem. Isn't there a log file`
`05:22.43`	`*** join/#kde physos (~physos@endres.kde)`
`05:22.49`	`Venson`	`i've no clue...i'm tired for this week :>`
`05:24.02`	`phxguy`	`well thanks for trying. ive gotta get this fixed. it is so annoying`
`05:32.02`	`Quinn_Storm`	`hey, does anyone know which parts of kde need to be rebuilt to enable zeroconf support?`
`05:33.21`	`Quinn_Storm`	`nevermind`
`05:33.24`	`Quinn_Storm`	`found a use flag`
`05:37.54`	`*** join/#kde nikoJ (~sctprog@d137-186-221-64.abhsia.telus.net)`
`05:38.15`	`*** join/#kde \|11dennis\| (~Dennis@dennis.user.unixboard)`
`05:39.13`	`nikoJ`	`where can i find the current recommended qt configure flags?`
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`05:54.18`	`*** join/#kde quat_ (nobody@d64-180-119-35.bchsia.telus.net)`
`05:54.24`	`quat_`	`anyone here use krusader =/`
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`05:58.09`	`Dyllan`	`anyone know the command to hide konqueror main bar (same as ctrl-m), but i want to edit the konquerorrc file :)`
`05:59.14`	`quat_`	`nm got what I wanted randomly anyways =)`
`05:59.15`	`*** part/#kde quat_ (nobody@d64-180-119-35.bchsia.telus.net)`
`06:01.46`	`*** join/#kde quat_ (nobody@d64-180-119-35.bchsia.telus.net)`
`06:02.05`	`quat_`	`but I have another question =) what's the app I need to locate to change my Qt skins/themes?`
`06:02.39`	`quat_`	`just looking to make my current fonts smaller mostly... can't remember the name of the app... =/`
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`06:06.21`	`*** join/#kde DavidQB-away (~david@168.6.233.220.exetel.com.au)`
`06:07.23`	`DavidQB-away`	`how do enable the little drag handles for objects in the kciker ??`
`06:07.51`	`DavidQB-away`	`I cant move my Mum's system tray and its right in the middle of the kicker, squashing the taskbar`
`06:08.45`	`Quinn_Storm`	`DavidQB-away: Configure Panel -> Appearance -> Advanced Options`
`06:09.03`	`DavidQB-away`	`cheers`
`06:10.51`	`*** part/#kde morkeleb (~fredrik@84.217.124.17)`
`06:14.49`	`DavidQB-away`	`Quinn_Storm, worked a treat mate, thanx alot for that`
`06:14.55`	`Quinn_Storm`	`sure`
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`06:32.19`	`*** join/#kde mae (~mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com)`
`06:33.03`	`eean`	`"advanced options" is just a bad idea IMO. I had to ask in #kde where that option was as well. :)`
`06:33.59`	`bline`	`"advanced options" is a better idea than confusing the hell out of newbees`
`06:34.04`	`grepper`	`heh, try gnome's gconf-editor`
`06:34.59`	`bline`	`regedit? :P`
`06:35.04`	`grepper`	`no one but advanced users should be moving icons anyway !`
`06:35.18`	`slayerbob`	`or the mouse :)`
`06:35.31`	`eean`	`bline: yea, but I was confused the hell out of`
`06:35.37`	`eean`	`doesn't that count for anything?`
`06:35.44`	`kendrick`	`it is REALLY buried in there`
`06:35.44`	`slayerbob`	`but then i think that the on button should be hidden behind "advanced" :P`
`06:35.46`	`bline`	`NO!`
`06:35.48`	`kendrick`	`that's pretty dumbn`
`06:36.03`	`grepper`	`hehe`
`06:36.03`	`eean`	`it shouldn't be an option at all`
`06:36.04`	`bline`	`the options have a search, no?`
`06:36.19`	`eean`	`by default you should only see the handles on mouseover`
`06:36.19`	`bline`	`if not, they should`
`06:36.21`	`kendrick`	`well, the OPTIONS are for how to hide it... fade out, hide always, etc.`
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`06:36.29`	`kendrick`	`i leave my handles on all the time`
`06:36.32`	`eean`	`thats good enough for everyone I think`
`06:36.33`	`kendrick`	`i hate mouseover tricks`
`06:36.43`	`kendrick`	`but some people don't like staring at widgets all day, so want mouseover`
`06:36.44`	`eean`	`options suck :)`
`06:36.51`	`kendrick`	`i can see a Kiosk situation where you DON'T want them to be moveable at ALL`
`06:36.55`	`bline`	`grep 'option' ~/.kde/share/config -rl`
`06:37.08`	`kendrick`	`anyway, my 2c... gotta run :)`
`06:37.10`	`eean`	`kendrick: well, make it a kiosk thing then`
`06:37.18`	`eean`	`if it was /that/ hidden I wouldn't have any trouble :)`
`06:37.31`	`bline`	`any options should be accessible from some rightclick menu somewhere`
`06:37.38`	`bline`	`IMO`
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`06:37.48`	`eean`	`bline: hehe, thats why removing handles is a Bad Idea`
`06:38.06`	`eean`	`nothing to right click on`
`06:38.09`	`bline`	`not really, there should be some keymap to get to the meny`
`06:38.13`	`bline`	`s/y$/u/`
`06:38.24`	`eean`	`oh, keymap`
`06:38.29`	`eean`	`thats great usablity`
`06:38.36`	`eean`	`:D`
`06:38.43`	`bline`	`if you remove the handle, you should know about the keymap`
`06:38.55`	`eean`	`if I removed the handle, I should know about the option to turn it back on`
`06:38.57`	`eean`	`yet I didn't`
`06:39.04`	`bline`	`and yes, keymaps are much more usable than some handle, much faster to access`
`06:39.10`	`eean`	`cause I probably had done it months before`
`06:39.26`	`bline`	`the program could even warn you "you are removing the handle. the keymap to get to this menu is blah"`
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`06:39.36`	`eean`	`users don't read`
`06:40.01`	`bline`	`whatever`
`06:40.12`	`bline`	`go ship your computer back to the manufacturer then`
`06:40.27`	`eean`	`why`
`06:40.33`	`bline`	`that's like saying "user can't use a keyboard"`
`06:40.48`	`eean`	`no, if I said "users can't read"`
`06:40.54`	`eean`	`that would be like saying that`
`06:40.56`	`eean`	`but I didn't`
`06:41.02`	`bline`	`if something is laid out well, with good info 90% of users will pick it up`
`06:41.17`	`eean`	`its like rule #1 of UI design, assume you're users don't read`
`06:41.22`	`eean`	`bline: exactly`
`06:41.24`	`bline`	`but we only hear from the ones that don't`
`06:41.38`	`eean`	`nah, I think its true`
`06:41.56`	`eean`	`I only scan over stuff usually`
`06:42.15`	`bline`	`anyway, i perfer to have control. If I couldn't fullscreen something for example, I wouldn't be using kde`
`06:42.25`	`*** join/#kde sredna (~anders@alund.developer.kde)`
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`06:43.03`	`bline`	`the "don't allow removal of handles because users don't read" argument is bad IMO`
`06:43.22`	`eean`	`no, don't rely on some silly keybinding cause users don't read is what I was saying`
`06:43.41`	`bline`	`I fail to see how it is silly.`
`06:43.45`	`eean`	`don't allow removal of handles if there isn't room for it in the options dialog, I was saying as well`
`06:43.51`	`bline`	`All my work is done with keybindings.`
`06:44.05`	`eean`	`its no way to design software though`
`06:44.18`	`eean`	`certainly users like yourself should be kept me in midn`
`06:44.20`	`eean`	`*mind`
`06:44.28`	`bline`	`right`
`06:47.12`	`bline`	`I do think that a lot of the options that were put into the advanced areas hardly seem to belong.`
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`06:59.14`	`Mythril`	`is there any way to use krfb as a background process?`
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`07:08.09`	`*** join/#kde Sputn1k (ojuzmj@ip-195-14-191-72.bnk.lt)`
`07:09.32`	`Sputn1k`	`Im using suse and my kde broken, clock, K menu button expired, and when i click on minimize button program just expire, how can i fix it?`
`07:10.02`	`*** join/#kde Frost^ (~Weiss@85-250-236-20.bb.netvision.net.il)`
`07:18.21`	`sredna`	`Sputn1k: Expire meaning dissapear?`
`07:18.30`	`Sputn1k`	`yes :)`
`07:18.39`	`sredna`	`Sputn1k: Did you try restarting KDE?`
`07:18.52`	`Sputn1k`	`yes`
`07:19.11`	`sredna`	`Did you try as an other user?`
`07:19.29`	`Sputn1k`	`with root user everything find`
`07:20.26`	`sredna`	`Did you try renaming your ~/.kde directory (do not delete it, it contains your data)?`
`07:22.28`	`chakie`	`ugh, what takes care of the small notification windows? i have a "Konsole: Bell in session 'Shell'" notification that has stuck`
`07:22.29`	`*** join/#kde s-toned (~S-Toned@62.89.180.169)`
`07:22.58`	`chakie`	`it just blinks up in the corner of the screen as fast as it can, pulling up the system load`
`07:23.22`	`chakie`	`the konsole where the notification comes from no longer even exists...`
`07:23.53`	`chakie`	`ah, killin knotify stopped it`
`07:24.32`	`*** join/#kde map101 (opriwqerwe@modemcable044.189-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)`
`07:25.11`	`map101`	`is there a tutorial somewhere to KDE libs? from someone who read the Qt docs?`
`07:26.51`	`map101`	`http://developer.kde.org/documentation/tutorials/ ?`
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`07:31.19`	`*** join/#kde mortum (~mortum@84.232.61.27)`
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`07:32.46`	`Poprocks`	`hey all - I know the default email client & web browser for KDE can be set, but is there a command that can be used externally, in scripts etc. to launch these default programs?`
`07:33.09`	`sredna`	`Poprocks: Kfmclient`
`07:33.19`	`sredna`	`Lower, kfmclient`
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`07:50.45`	`bline`	`anyone know what takes the XF86AudioLowerVolume keymap? it grabs it globaly`
`07:50.46`	`slayerbob`	`heh`
`07:50.46`	`slayerbob`	`i tried to make a key today`
`07:50.46`	`slayerbob`	`unfortunately i was mapping a key to lock my session`
`07:50.46`	`slayerbob`	`and naturally i chose ctrl-alt-L`
`07:50.47`	`slayerbob`	`not realising that that was the default for lock session :P`
`07:50.47`	`slayerbob`	`i really should try thing before i try to reconfigure them :P`
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`07:57.15`	`sredna`	`bline: Kmilo iirc`
`07:57.57`	`sredna`	`bline: It's possible that other sound related apps binds it`
`07:58.21`	`sredna`	`Imo it should be used for kmix`
`07:59.01`	`physos`	`slayerbob: ;)`
`08:00.05`	`slayerbob`	`hiya physos`
`08:00.26`	`physos`	`slayerbob: how is the Qt programming advancing ;)`
`08:00.28`	`physos`	`?`
`08:00.30`	`Poprocks`	`beauty, thanks sredna`
`08:00.33`	`*** part/#kde prasad (~kadambi@61.246.62.150)`
`08:01.12`	`slayerbob`	`physos: have generated widget.h and widget.cpp so far :)`
`08:02.04`	`bline`	`sredna: I don't see anything in kmix that is configurable that is binding it, but yeah I think kmix should be the one`
`08:02.22`	`bline`	`no kmilo here`
`08:03.00`	`bline`	`and it's not in the list of global shortcuts`
`08:03.05`	`bline`	`:(`
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`08:05.35`	`bline`	`hmm, i wonder if kdebugdialog can tell me`
`08:06.29`	`sredna`	`bline: Kmix can be bound using khotkeys/dcop`
`08:06.43`	`sredna`	`bline: Are you running amarok or stlt?`
`08:06.49`	`bline`	`nope`
`08:06.52`	`sredna`	`I don't know if amarok uses it`
`08:06.56`	`sredna`	`Juk?`
`08:07.00`	`bline`	`nope`
`08:07.06`	`sredna`	`Hm, no idea then`
`08:07.15`	`sredna`	`Gtg`
`08:07.20`	`bline`	`I can stop everything and something still grabs the volume keys`
`08:07.25`	`bline`	`later`
`08:18.37`	`Dyllan`	`anybidy know some resourceful documentation on kde lockdown/administration ?`
`08:21.00`	`*** join/#kde thefish (~thefish@thefish.user)`
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`08:23.15`	`*** join/#kde map101 (vacance101@modemcable009.162-130-66.mc.videotron.ca)`
`08:23.42`	`map101`	`does someone know how to setup LAN access within VMWare for Mandrake 10.2 ?`
`08:23.51`	`map101`	`I'm using bridget NAT, but I cannot get another IP via DHCP, since its a cable modem`
`08:25.59`	`s-toned`	`how do I set the window size konqueror starts with?`
`08:26.26`	`slayerbob`	`map101: if it is one of those motorola modems they usually work as routers if you fiddle with their settings`
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`08:35.12`	`map101`	`its a black motorola yes`
`08:35.27`	`map101`	`but i have no clue how to mess with the settings...`
`08:35.40`	`map101`	`there's only one LAN output and one USB output`
`08:35.47`	`slayerbob`	`try going to 192.168.100.1 on your web browser :)`
`08:36.06`	`map101`	`brb`
`08:37.03`	`map101`	`192.168.100.1 nice...`
`08:37.14`	`map101`	`theres an apache server inside?!`
`08:37.29`	`canllaith`	`most of those routers run a linux or BSD`
`08:37.31`	`slayerbob`	`well... don't know if it is apache`
`08:37.36`	`slayerbob`	`apache is a bit heavy :P`
`08:37.43`	`bline`	`wow, just found the dcomp browser`
`08:37.56`	`slayerbob`	`but you ought to be able to configure it to work as a router rather than just a modem`
`08:38.03`	`map101`	`theres only "help"`
`08:38.09`	`slayerbob`	`heh`
`08:38.13`	`slayerbob`	`it might be locked down :P`
`08:38.35`	`bline`	`this is impressive`
`08:38.48`	`map101`	`how do u "unlock" :P`
`08:38.58`	`map101`	`Software Version: SB5100-2.3.2.4-SCM00-NOSH`
`08:39.28`	`map101`	`no shell? = NOSH?`
`08:40.13`	`map101`	`it runs Vxworks 5.4`
`08:40.46`	*** join/#kde ralf`away (~matteo@openjlab.org)
`08:41.59`	`slayerbob`	`not sure... if it is locked it was probably done by your isp`
`08:42.47`	`map101`	`yes the modem is rented...`
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`08:47.22`	`map101`	`i still cannot ping :S`
`08:49.07`	`map101`	`where do i setup the DNS again?`
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`08:52.31`	`map101`	`in 2005, mandrake doesnt come with nano or pico WTF!`
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`09:18.55`	`Dyllan`	`is there a newer kiosk admin tool?`
`09:20.21`	`Dyllan`	`well a beta ?`
`09:26.49`	`*** join/#kde kevin__ (~kevin@66-215-217-124.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net)`
`09:27.02`	`kevin__`	`WHen ever i drag icons in kde, it leaves a trailing effect behind`
`09:27.07`	`kevin__`	`Does anyone know what that is`
`09:27.59`	`Dyllan`	`it's a snail :/`
`09:28.48`	`kevin__`	`huh?`
`09:34.32`	`kevin__`	`Where is the Look'n Feel in kde 3.4?`
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`09:35.34`	`Tm_T`	`kevin__: ?`
`09:35.37`	`Tm_T`	`what you mean?`
`09:36.55`	`kevin__`	`for themes`
`09:38.09`	`Dyllan`	`Control Center`
`09:38.12`	`Dyllan`	`kcontrol`
`09:38.23`	`Tm_T`	`yes`
`09:38.38`	`Tm_T`	`and rightclick ;)`
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`09:44.49`	`Tm_T`	`"thankyou very much"`
`09:44.53`	`Tm_T`	`;p`
`09:46.30`	`*** join/#kde Standfest (~fanetz@80.81.38.186)`
`09:47.42`	`Standfest`	`i can't start kde normally, kcminit crashes, and the kdesktop crashes`
`09:47.47`	`Standfest`	`here is the output`
`09:47.50`	`Standfest`	`http://rafb.net/paste/results/Miiknn73.html`
`09:47.56`	`Standfest`	`who can help?`
`09:48.04`	`Standfest`	`where is the trouble..?`
`09:48.05`	`*** join/#kde morty (~tmj@80.234.144.28)`
`09:49.54`	`ilyak`	`Standfest: it seems that your libraries are messe up`
`09:49.57`	`ilyak`	`messed`
`09:50.20`	`ilyak`	`like if you installed part of KDE from another distro/version or used an unsupported (4.0) gcc`
`09:50.21`	`Standfest`	`ilyak i've compiled from scratch kde yesterday`
`09:50.26`	`Standfest`	`and got the same error`
`09:50.29`	`ilyak`	`And your distro is?`
`09:50.33`	`Standfest`	`gentoo`
`09:50.42`	`ilyak`	`and your gcc --version is?`
`09:50.42`	`Standfest`	`gcc 3.4.4`
`09:51.02`	`ilyak`	`oh, i don't know in that case. Ask on gentoo forums/channels/maillists`
`09:51.25`	`Standfest`	`i've compiled whitout arts support`
`09:52.10`	`ilyak`	`these errors are not in arts, they're in errorneous kcm libs`
`09:52.25`	`ilyak`	`you may consider rm'ing them and look what will happen`
`09:52.50`	`Standfest`	`okey, i'll try`
`09:52.53`	`Standfest`	`thx ilyak`
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`10:05.08`	`Dyllan`	`fsck me kde pisses me of sometimes`
`10:05.11`	`Dyllan`	`:P`
`10:08.06`	`mustasj`	`Dyllan: Whats up now ? :)`
`10:08.38`	`mustasj`	`And maybe you shoulden't be using gentoo's split ebuilds ..`
`10:08.48`	`mustasj`	`If you're having alot of problems`
`10:14.48`	`*** join/#kde rami (~rami@jumbo186.adsl.netsonic.fi)`
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`10:17.07`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, howzit :)`
`10:17.18`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, no the ebuilds are great thanks :)`
`10:18.49`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, I just get really frustrated when the Kiosk Admin Tool only does half the locking down, then i have to edit the files myself, like konquerorrc and kdeglobals and add extra stuff. I wish the Kiosk toll had a config for the Kontrol centre. Things just get messy when i have to use the Kiosk and manual config.`
`10:19.48`	`*** part/#kde redloff (redloff@pd146.pabianice.sdi.tpnet.pl)`
`10:23.04`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, Let me give you an example; I have +-200 users. So of course its easier for me to configure 1 profile for everyone. So i use Kiosk tool to apply the Restrictions. Then i create a test user, setup the Control Center, desktop Icons, Panel and everything else just the way i want it. Then i overwrite the kdeglobals and other files with those that the Kiosk Admin Tool created. Wallah, i get a desktop that is locked down and setup just like i want it. Problem`
`10:23.04`	`Dyllan`	`e to do and lots of hair pulling. The kiosk tool could be built to do all of that. :)`
`10:26.26`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, Futhermore, i dont use the KioskAdmin tool to actually handle my user profiles, it just generates a nice and easy kdeglobals. I use /etc/skel to handle everything :/`
`10:27.22`	`mustasj`	`I have no experience with kiosk, I would have created a nice desktop, icon, backupground and so on, then put ~/.kde directory to /etc/skel so that all new users would get the same .kde, then I would configure all users to a group called kiosk or something where the restrictions apply`
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`10:28.49`	`Dyllan`	`mustasj, yea, that's about it.. .`
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`10:57.51`	`fRanCo`	`Is there a way to see which where the last file(s) I deleted on my system? (using KDE)`
`10:59.10`	`mustasj`	`fRanCo: the Trash Can ? :p If you are asking on how to restore a deleted file it depends on which filesystem you are using`
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`11:01.04`	`Kleggas`	`when I use another loginmanager than kdm I can't run all kde apps that I want. kopete wont start at all, and kwrite will start after a very long time of idleing trying to connect to dcopserver. how do I fix this?`
`11:01.15`	`fRanCo`	`mustasj: I'm using ext3, and If I cant restore it I would like to know the names of the files if thats possible?`
`11:01.33`	`Kleggas`	`I started dcopserver manually but still have the same problem`
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`11:06.20`	`fRanCo`	`mustasj, ?`
`11:06.21`	`*** join/#kde soulreaper (b@p54A6606D.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`11:06.34`	`fRanCo`	`is there maybe a log file that kde has ?`
`11:06.43`	`fRanCo`	`that records which files are deleted etc?`
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`11:17.25`	`Frost^`	`can you access more advanced ftp servers with konqueror?`
`11:17.43`	`Frost^`	`such as ssl secured ftps, and fxping etc.`
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`11:45.31`	`thiago`	`Frost^: no`
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`11:58.50`	`canllaith`	`anyone really good with sudoers in here? :)`
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`11:58.57`	`amorphix`	`greets`
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`11:59.06`	`Tm_T`	`canllaith: eh?`
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`11:59.48`	`amorphix`	`and to top it off i smell too`
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`12:03.22`	`canllaith`	`zackly what I said :P Is anyone any good with sudoers in here.`
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`12:05.28`	`jneves`	`what can I use to replace a MS Access database (with forms)?`
`12:07.51`	`StevenR`	`jneves: maybe knoda....try kde-apps.org for more possibilities`
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`12:10.07`	`jneves`	`thanks`
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`12:52.35`	`_stefan`	`hi`
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`12:56.23`	`aciDHead`	`no one here ?`
`12:56.50`	`annma`	`aciDHead: ask your question`
`12:57.08`	`aciDHead`	`do you know how to disable kgpg ?`
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`12:57.49`	`aciDHead`	`when i hit the settings tab which says "kgpg at startup" nothing happens`
`12:57.52`	`annma`	`where is it? in systray?`
`12:57.59`	`aciDHead`	`it still starts at the next login.`
`12:58.03`	`aciDHead`	`yes in systray`
`12:58.13`	`annma`	`right click on it in systray`
`12:58.21`	`annma`	`and there is an option`
`12:58.49`	`aciDHead`	`yes i know but the option has no effect`
`12:59.36`	`annma`	`what option do you use?`
`13:00.17`	`aciDHead`	`the load kgpg at startup option`
`13:01.39`	`annma`	`go in .kde/share/config and find kgpgrc`
`13:01.52`	`annma`	`backitup to kgpgrc.old`
`13:02.11`	`annma`	`with kgpg not in of course`
`13:02.36`	`aciDHead`	`ok..`
`13:02.43`	`aciDHead`	`thanks..`
`13:03.00`	`aciDHead`	`i already renamed it, but i think thats not the golden way..`
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`13:04.09`	`aciDHead`	`[User Interface]`
`13:04.09`	`aciDHead`	`AutoStart=true`
`13:04.32`	`aciDHead`	`thats it in the config path.. that was what i m looking for..`
`13:04.40`	`aciDHead`	`many thanks..`
`13:04.45`	`*** join/#kde Samus_Aran (~ILL@210.213.130.49)`
`13:04.55`	`Samus_Aran`	`how can I browse smb networks with Konqueror ?`
`13:05.34`	`Samus_Aran`	`KDE 3.4.0`
`13:05.55`	`termo`	`with lan://workgroup`
`13:06.39`	`Samus_Aran`	`is there no way to search for workgroups ?`
`13:08.42`	`aciDHead`	`u can use LinNeighborhood`
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`13:09.00`	`aciDHead`	`but i think with konqi there is no such funktion`
`13:09.35`	`aciDHead`	`look here: http://www.bnro.de/~schmidjo/index.html`
`13:09.41`	`*** join/#kde mortum (~mortum@84.232.61.27)`
`13:10.31`	`Samus_Aran`	`what is a "Lisa daemon" ? Konqueror says it has to be running to browse the network`
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`13:11.34`	`aciDHead`	`i think it pretty useless.. i never got it to work.. maybe someone else..`
`13:12.02`	`aciDHead`	`linneigbourhood is just like windows-network`
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`13:16.44`	`aciDHead`	`.`
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`13:22.03`	`Samus_Aran`	`LinNeighbourhood found nothing. oh well. Windows is a pain in the ass`
`13:22.18`	`Samus_Aran`	`g'night`
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`13:24.56`	`Dyllan`	`in Control Center i dont have 'keyboard' in the peripherals section, what do i need to install? Im using split-ebuilds :)`
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`13:27.19`	`rsts`	`the discussion about MSN bug in Kopete mentioned that next KDE release can happen really soon. Anybody got details?`
`13:27.39`	`alder`	`who can tell me why the hell kde let my windows 'disappear' instead of putting them in this bar at the bottom when i minimize em, i can just get em back via the windows-list or alt+tab`
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`13:28.39`	`rsts`	`alder: do you have taksbar applet running on the panel?`
`13:28.56`	`alder`	`no idea`
`13:29.21`	`alder`	`what if`
`13:29.35`	`alder`	`i'm at uni and new to kde, thats why i ask`
`13:29.50`	`rsts`	`try right-click on panel, add , applet - taskbar`
`13:30.09`	`alder`	`rightclick on what?`
`13:30.31`	`rsts`	`the row of icons at the bottom of the screen`
`13:30.32`	`rsts`	`normally`
`13:30.37`	`alder`	`ah`
`13:30.41`	`alder`	`ok`
`13:30.44`	`alder`	`got it`
`13:30.46`	`alder`	`nice man`
`13:30.49`	`alder`	`thanks a lot`
`13:30.49`	`rsts`	`np`
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`13:32.02`	`alder`	`bye`
`13:32.06`	`rsts`	`bye`
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`13:36.54`	`map101`	`where can i download kde devel and headers?`
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`13:37.30`	`aciDHead`	`which distri ?`
`13:37.44`	`map101`	`mandrake 10.2`
`13:37.50`	`map101`	`or tarball`
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`13:39.50`	`annma`	`get kdelibs-devel`
`13:40.00`	`map101`	`ok`
`13:40.05`	`map101`	`rpmseek doesnt have kde-devel`
`13:40.06`	`annma`	`urpmi kdelibs-devel`
`13:40.12`	`map101`	`i dont want urpmi`
`13:40.17`	`annma`	`why not?`
`13:40.24`	`map101`	`its way to slow, I have to download like 200MB of hdlist.cz`
`13:40.40`	`annma`	`ask in #mandrake then`
`13:40.48`	`map101`	`i just want a url to a rpm`
`13:40.52`	`map101`	`or tgz or tar.bz2`
`13:40.55`	`annma`	`that's your distro`
`13:41.14`	`annma`	`you can get tarballs from kde.org but you'll have to compile the whole thing`
`13:41.36`	`tjs57`	`just pull it from one of the mandrake mirrors`
`13:41.42`	`annma`	`yes`
`13:41.53`	`annma`	`what is your kdelibs rpm version?`
`13:42.08`	`map101`	`how do i know`
`13:42.08`	`annma`	`get the same version for kdelibs-devel`
`13:42.09`	`map101`	`:P`
`13:42.12`	`annma`	`oh`
`13:42.19`	`annma`	`rpm -qa \|grep kdelibs`
`13:42.22`	`annma`	`paste result`
`13:43.46`	`annma`	`map101: hello?`
`13:43.57`	`map101`	`its still running...`
`13:44.26`	`aciDHead`	`i think here youll get lucky..`
`13:44.27`	`aciDHead`	`http://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu/pub/mandrake/devel/10.2/i586/media/main/`
`13:44.44`	`aciDHead`	`there are all 10.2 kde source packages..`
`13:44.49`	`map101`	`ok`
`13:44.55`	`map101`	`-3.3.2-123mdk`
`13:45.01`	`map101`	`kdelibs-common`
`13:45.35`	`aciDHead`	`so there is 3.3.2-124.1`
`13:45.47`	`aciDHead`	`so there is 3.3.2-124.1.102mdk`
`13:46.27`	`map101`	`but theres no devel`
`13:46.29`	`map101`	`?!`
`13:46.47`	`map101`	`theres c1-devel`
`13:46.52`	`annma`	`so get the same rpm for kdelibs-devel and install it`
`13:47.03`	`annma`	`c1 what?`
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`13:47.26`	`map101`	`libkdec1-3.3.2-2mdk.i586.rpm 18-Apr-2005 07:57 9.9M`
`13:47.26`	`map101`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:47.42`	`annma`	`get kdelibs-devel`
`13:47.47`	`map101`	`libkdecore4-3.3.2-124.1.102mdk.i586.rpm 12-May-2005 03:25 7.9M`
`13:47.47`	`map101`	`<PROTECTED>`
`13:47.50`	`map101`	`that one?`
`13:48.00`	`annma`	`yes probably`
`13:48.04`	`annma`	`ask in #mandrake`
`13:48.13`	`annma`	`in kde we ship tarballs`
`13:48.16`	`annma`	`not roms`
`13:48.19`	`annma`	`rpms`
`13:48.33`	`annma`	`so it's difficult to know what each distro does`
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`13:49.38`	`aciDHead`	`brb`
`13:49.55`	`rsts`	`annma: any idea when 3.4.1 will be released?`
`13:50.01`	`annma`	`soon`
`13:50.04`	`hagbard_`	`its released?`
`13:50.08`	`annma`	`no`
`13:50.31`	`rsts`	`thx`
`13:50.42`	`hagbard_`	`<CIA-9> greg_g * gentoo-x86/profiles/package.mask: Mask for monolithic KDE 3.4.1 packages.`
`13:50.42`	`hagbard_`	`<CIA-9> greg_g * gentoo-x86/kde-base/kdebase/ (4 files in 2 dirs):`
`13:50.42`	`hagbard_`	`<CIA-9> New version.`
`13:50.43`	`hagbard_`	`:P`
`13:51.07`	`annma`	`in stable?`
`13:51.10`	`hagbard_`	`no`
`13:51.13`	`annma`	`see`
`13:51.22`	`annma`	`we have a 3.4.1 code`
`13:51.26`	`annma`	`we being kde`
`13:51.38`	`hagbard_`	`k`
`13:51.39`	`annma`	`and anyone can get it`
`13:51.44`	`hagbard_`	`i want 3.4.0 get stable ;)`
`13:51.45`	`rsts`	`<voice>we are the borg</voice>`
`13:51.52`	`annma`	`however we don't label it 3.4.1 until it's out from us`
`13:52.10`	`hagbard_`	`annma, idea of when getting 3.4.0 stable?`
`13:52.21`	`annma`	`hagbard_: 3.4.0 is stable for me`
`13:52.27`	`hagbard_`	`mh?`
`13:52.30`	`annma`	`stable for whom? gentoo? <lol>`
`13:52.39`	`hagbard_`	`annma, yep`
`13:52.45`	`annma`	`when kde releases 3.4.0 it's stable for kde`
`13:53.02`	`annma`	`what distros do is distro cooking`
`13:53.02`	`hagbard_`	`i want to know when its stable for gentoo`
`13:53.07`	`hagbard_`	`k`
`13:53.10`	`annma`	`ask in #gentoo`
`13:53.17`	`hagbard_`	`they dont know :P`
`13:53.20`	`annma`	`lol`
`13:53.22`	`annma`	`well`
`13:54.05`	`annma`	`when kde makes 3.4.1 available get the tarballs and compile them the normal way`
`13:54.23`	`annma`	`you'll then have 3.4.1 "stable"`
`14:00.34`	`Frost^`	`will 3.4.1 be out anytime soon?`
`14:00.54`	`annma`	`anytime, soon`
`14:01.03`	`Frost^`	`:)`
`14:02.09`	`*** join/#kde gregday (500@25511435.ecsis.net)`
`14:02.25`	`Frost^`	`I'm not picky`
`14:02.44`	`annma`	`:) that's nice`
`14:03.00`	`*** join/#kde NullAcht15 (~NullAcht1@dsl-084-059-150-018.arcor-ip.net)`
`14:04.38`	`*** join/#kde journalism (~journalis@205.127.241.46)`
`14:05.56`	`*** join/#kde qfh (~qfh@ppp-62-245-210-75.mnet-online.de)`
`14:06.18`	`*** join/#kde thefish (~thefish@thefish.user)`
`14:11.23`	`*** join/#kde X-The (~X-The@217.129.167.6)`
`14:11.48`	`*** join/#kde Quinn_Storm (~quinn@67.21.72.234)`
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`14:17.33`	`*** part/#kde adb (~adbosco@YahooBB218183184003.bbtec.net)`
`14:18.00`	`*** join/#kde marec (~bigm@e178107223.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`14:23.19`	`marec`	`hi folks, i'm administrating a network of debian (testing) machines with kde 3.3`
`14:23.19`	`marec`	`i have SSO (kerberos) configurered and I'd like to mount the home shares of every user berfore starting kde. this is done with pam_mount but unfortunatly kde wont start - it just hangs`
`14:23.19`	`marec`	`i think it's because the home directory is a smb share which doesnt support special unix files`
`14:23.44`	`marec`	`any ideas ? thx`
`14:25.18`	`*** join/#kde nuunaani (~nuunaani@62.89.180.169)`
`14:28.09`	`marec`	`no one ?`
`14:28.11`	`*** join/#kde cryos (~cryos@cryos.developer.gentoo)`
`14:28.47`	`*** join/#kde systest (~systest@209-6-212-3.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)`
`14:30.54`	`*** join/#kde DortisanA (~alex@81-178-201-232.dsl.pipex.com)`
`14:31.14`	`DortisanA`	`anyone here know how to make icons grow and shrink like osx?`
`14:31.16`	`*** join/#kde thiago (~thiago@2002:c906:9986:8000:20c:76ff:fe12:812d)`
`14:31.47`	`lauri`	`in the panel?`
`14:31.50`	`lauri`	`you can't`
`14:31.52`	`DortisanA`	`yes`
`14:32.12`	`DortisanA`	`is that planned for a new release?`
`14:33.07`	`lauri`	`no`
`14:33.08`	`*** join/#kde _nil_ (~04@64-142-79-254.dsl.static.sonic.net)`
`14:33.30`	`lauri`	`it was available, it was removed`
`14:33.32`	`*** join/#kde johnyb (~jb@e176139143.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`14:33.43`	`lauri`	`it caused bugs, and didn't look all that good anyway`
`14:33.56`	`DortisanA`	`hmm... any ideas what KDE 4 is going to look like?`
`14:34.04`	`DortisanA`	`are there any preview sites?`
`14:34.37`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@70.58.125.120)`
`14:35.37`	`lauri`	`it'll probably look rather like kde 3`
`14:35.50`	`*** join/#kde OrangeSun (~orangey@dyn129-100-182-35.wireless.uwo.ca)`
`14:36.05`	`OrangeSun`	`hey all!`
`14:36.06`	`OrangeSun`	`is kde 3.4.1 out?`
`14:36.10`	`lauri`	`no`
`14:36.15`	`DortisanA`	`is the kopete error: could not connect to host login.passport.net`
`14:36.22`	`DortisanA`	`cos that is what i am getting now`
`14:36.24`	`OrangeSun`	`I see gentoo packs.. are they an RC or something?`
`14:36.30`	`lauri`	`ask #gentoo`
`14:36.40`	`lauri`	`we don't know what they are`
`14:37.07`	`OrangeSun`	`lauri: perhaps another question would be: What stage of development is 3.4.1 at?`
`14:37.14`	`lauri`	`the tarballs are available for packaging, but are not meant to be public yet`
`14:37.21`	`OrangeSun`	`oh..`
`14:37.34`	`DortisanA`	`3.4.1 is hard masked on gentoo... i don't think all packages are available though`
`14:37.34`	`OrangeSun`	`then we have different definitions of "release" :: )`
`14:37.35`	`lauri`	`so it is not announced, not final, and until it is, we could pull it at any moment if a bug is found during packaging (it happens, sometimes)`
`14:37.41`	`lauri`	`OrangeSun: no, we don't`
`14:37.47`	`lauri`	`KDE has not released 3.4.1`
`14:38.03`	`lauri`	`there has been no announcement, and the tarballs are not available for public download`
`14:38.10`	`lauri`	`until those two things happen, it is not released`
`14:38.16`	`*** join/#kde elephant (~elephantm@217.167.222.224)`
`14:38.43`	`OrangeSun`	`lauri: But the tarballs are available, and the 3.4.1 in the packs is the "real" 3.4.1 that will be "released" -- that's my definition`
`14:38.51`	`*** join/#kde xzz (xzz@zappa.halden.net)`
`14:39.09`	`lauri`	`where are the tarballs available from?`
`14:39.20`	`OrangeSun`	`gentoo?`
`14:39.30`	`OrangeSun`	`also I saw packs for mandriva (thacs)`
`14:39.54`	`lauri`	`and there are other packages being made too`
`14:40.03`	`lauri`	`but until there is an announcement, it's not released`
`14:40.09`	`lauri`	`it's not that hard to understand, surely`
`14:41.00`	`lauri`	`ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable <-- when there is a 3.4.1 directory here, and an announcement has been made`
`14:41.14`	`OrangeSun`	`lauri: I get it. You're stuck on some probably real definition to the detriment of our conversation`
`14:41.32`	`lauri`	`OrangeSun: no, I'm just sick to death of people preempting the release`
`14:41.39`	`lauri`	`hammering the ftp servers (when it's not there yet)`
`14:42.04`	`lauri`	`and using whatever the hell gentoo releases and filing bugs and things, about versoins KDE has not released to the public yet`
`14:42.30`	`lauri`	`and gentoo isn't the only one to do it, but it's really rude, and it is not released yet`
`14:42.44`	`lauri`	`it maybe available, via back channels, that still is not released`
`14:43.36`	`OrangeSun`	`lauri: I see you are frustrated, but I think the real answer is "Packages of The Real Thing may be available, but it has not been officially released"`
`14:43.37`	`lauri`	`and if KDE pulls the release (and it's happened, later in the schedule than this) , we've skipped whole minor versions before, it may never be released`
`14:43.45`	`lauri`	`correct`
`14:44.03`	`OrangeSun`	`that's it.. no need to bite my head off.. I didn't make the packs..`
`14:44.12`	`OrangeSun`	`I'm just asking if it's an RC or beta or what.`
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`14:44.17`	`amorphix`	`anyone ever managed to get a Wacom serial graphics tablet to work under X?`
`14:44.23`	`lauri`	`it's nothing`
`14:44.26`	`lauri`	`since it's not released yet`
`14:45.00`	`OrangeSun`	`lauri: Again, stuck on that hard definition..`
`14:45.02`	`lauri`	`some random snapshot of the branch, nothing more, until we say different`
`14:45.30`	`lauri`	`yes, I am`
`14:45.33`	`lauri`	`because it is the definition`
`14:45.36`	`lauri`	`get over it`
`14:46.27`	`amorphix`	`phew`
`14:46.56`	`nexu`	`c>`
`14:46.57`	`amorphix`	`hehe`
`14:47.16`	`*** part/#kde hagbard_ (wannabe@summa.cum.laude.ninth-art.net)`
`14:47.16`	`amorphix`	`cool it down bud`
`14:48.24`	`*** join/#kde r00tsh3ll (1000@200.96.252.73)`
`14:52.08`	`*** part/#kde rsts (~rastos@212-193-18.adsl-s.telecom.sk)`
`14:53.03`	`*** join/#kde th0re (~th0re@83.243.140.5)`
`14:53.11`	`OrangeSun`	`in other news, does rfdb (? desktop sharing) support nx?`
`14:53.33`	`*** join/#kde PieD (~Pierre@ALille-251-1-38-109.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`14:58.09`	`*** join/#kde alder (alder@ranger.splatterworld.de)`
`14:58.23`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@70.58.125.120)`
`14:58.35`	`alder`	`is there a ftp client in kde?`
`14:59.18`	`Tm_T`	`konqi`
`14:59.36`	`Tm_T`	`and kde-apps.org helps too ;)`
`15:00.31`	`alder`	`i mean built in`
`15:01.29`	`lauri`	`konqueror`
`15:02.22`	`*** join/#kde BlackHand (~blackhand@200.121.252.167)`
`15:05.37`	`*** join/#kde Delicates (~space@c220-237-108-177.carlnfd3.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`15:05.40`	*** join/#kde ralf`away (~matteo@openjlab.org)
`15:07.13`	`The_Ace`	`alder, kasablanca`
`15:09.17`	`*** join/#kde buddy333 (~mike@134.191.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`15:09.50`	`alder`	`whwre do i find it`
`15:09.54`	`*** join/#kde firas (~firas@lev92-3-82-232-52-249.fbx.proxad.net)`
`15:10.57`	`*** join/#kde bimbo (~bimbo@200.52.181.56)`
`15:14.12`	`fissoz`	`everytime I want to use my printer I have to go to kcontrol right click on my printer and click on "start printer" to use it`
`15:14.22`	`fissoz`	`is there a way I could automate the process?`
`15:15.53`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@70.58.125.120)`
`15:16.09`	`fissoz`	`anyone?`
`15:16.33`	`*** join/#kde mortum (~mortum@84.232.61.27)`
`15:16.35`	`grepper`	`fissoz: you mean to start cups on boot ?`
`15:17.32`	`fissoz`	`grepper i don't know what is started exactly when I click on that "Start printer" thing in kconfig`
`15:18.39`	`grepper`	`I mean you need to do this even if you haven't rebooted in between using it ?`
`15:20.26`	`fissoz`	`grepper: no only when I reboot`
`15:20.47`	`*** join/#kde mankind_tweezer (~andy@140.247.143.130)`
`15:20.49`	`*** part/#kde alder (alder@ranger.splatterworld.de)`
`15:21.09`	`grepper`	`fissoz: what distro ?`
`15:21.35`	`header666`	`hello... does anybody knows, when kde 3.4.1 will be released?? or where can I find info about that?`
`15:21.38`	`header666`	`thanks.....`
`15:21.44`	`fissoz`	`grepper: kubuntui`
`15:21.47`	`fissoz`	`kubuntu`
`15:21.48`	`*** join/#kde _icyfire (icyfire@cpe-69-205-171-139.stny.res.rr.com)`
`15:21.49`	`grepper`	`"ls /etc/init.d/cups" ->is there a script there ?`
`15:22.20`	`fissoz`	`grepper: yes there is`
`15:22.58`	`*** part/#kde Kammus (~Kammus@200.179.100.226)`
`15:23.04`	`grepper`	`run: update-rc.d cupsys defaults`
`15:24.05`	`fissoz`	`System startup links for /etc/init.d/cupsys already exist.`
`15:24.11`	`grepper`	`hmm`
`15:24.27`	`*** join/#kde simmerz (~simmerz@80.68.82.25)`
`15:24.29`	`fissoz`	`grepper: let me try a reboot`
`15:26.27`	`*** part/#kde buddy333 (~mike@134.191.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`15:26.48`	`*** join/#kde buddy333 (~mike@134.191.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`15:26.54`	`*** join/#kde adapt (~adamp@www.cssdfw.com)`
`15:27.05`	`*** part/#kde buddy333 (~mike@134.191.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`15:28.15`	`adapt`	is there a way to use openbox with kde? i try running `killall kwin && openbox` and kwin dies but openbox wont start
`15:28.36`	`*** join/#kde buddy333 (~mike@134.191.79.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`15:28.41`	`adapt`	`and KDE_WM doesnt seem to do the trick`
`15:30.42`	`grepper`	`perhaps because its KDEWM ?`
`15:31.33`	`adapt`	`thanks ill try it`
`15:33.43`	`*** join/#kde vinay_ (~vinay@vinay.isr.uc.pt)`
`15:34.14`	`vinay_`	`hi i have problem using evolution in KDE`
`15:34.45`	`vinay_`	`we are having a proxy server`
`15:35.35`	`vinay_`	`does any one have any clue how to set proxies in evolution`
`15:37.38`	`*** join/#kde eltino (~eltino@ALamentin-101-1-10-44.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`15:37.41`	`eltino`	`Hi there`
`15:40.05`	`*** join/#kde n42 (~tpemble@adsl-067-034-137-050.sip.mco.bellsouth.net)`
`15:40.36`	`*** join/#kde kynx (~kynx@63.172.33.194)`
`15:42.19`	`*** part/#kde vinay_ (~vinay@vinay.isr.uc.pt)`
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`15:44.27`	`n42`	`I've installed KDE on Gentoo via portage, and it works all fine and dandy.. but it won't let me log in nonroot. This is, obviously, a problem. I've done some searching around and I can't seem to find a solution, does anyone have any ideas?`
`15:44.43`	`grepper`	`check the logs`
`15:44.45`	`n42`	`Yeah`
`15:44.53`	`n42`	`it says something about /dev/null, let me go look at it`
`15:46.05`	`n42`	`usr/kde/3.3/bin/startkde: line 192: /dev/null: Permission denied`
`15:46.10`	`n42`	`and various other lines`
`15:46.31`	`n42`	`then later on it says "QPixmap: Cannot create a QPixmap when no GUI is being used"`
`15:46.39`	`grepper`	`is /dev/null 666 ?`
`15:49.55`	`*** join/#kde wsjunior (1000@wsjunior.user)`
`15:49.55`	`n42`	`nope`
`15:49.57`	`n42`	`it is now though`
`15:50.10`	`n42`	`I'll try it out.`
`15:53.42`	`*** join/#kde n42 (~tpemble@adsl-067-034-137-050.sip.mco.bellsouth.net)`
`15:53.49`	`n42`	`thanks, that worked.`
`15:54.57`	`grepper`	`great`
`15:55.10`	`n42`	`but apparently my PATHS are messed up or something..`
`15:55.27`	`n42`	`Terminal opens but won't let me type, and when I try to use the User Manager it says su is an unknown command`
`15:59.52`	`*** join/#kde soulreaper (b@p54A65312.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`16:04.58`	`*** join/#kde Simkin (~Simkin@zz150077.cipherkey.net)`
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`16:08.41`	`*** join/#kde annma (~annma@annma.developer.kde)`
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`16:34.28`	`*** part/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.60.9)`
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`16:40.49`	`*** join/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.60.9)`
`16:40.59`	`Oleg_`	`I am still a virgin!!!!!`
`16:41.03`	`Oleg_`	`I hate it!!!`
`16:41.14`	`Oleg_`	`I wanna be in bed with a beautiful girl!`
`16:41.21`	`Oleg_`	`be a SUPERLOVER`
`16:41.56`	`anhi`	`well, i dont think you'll get laid while on IRC on a sunny day......`
`16:42.23`	`Oleg_`	`I won't get laid even if I go on a street either`
`16:42.53`	`anhi`	`the chance is slightly higher i'd say..`
`16:43.21`	`*** join/#kde mankind_tweezer (~andy@140.247.143.130)`
`16:43.50`	`anhi`	`i was out there on the grass the whole time, but i think my radio playing blackmetal somehow did reduce the chance there too`
`16:44.10`	`Oleg_`	`no because I can't just tell to the girl that sexually excites me this: "You sexually excite me; therefore I wanna have sex with you".`
`16:44.20`	`Oleg_`	`because that's not appropriate`
`16:44.33`	`anhi`	`if you got money it works (with a special profession that is)`
`16:45.00`	`Oleg_`	`you probably don't understand what I mean by sex`
`16:45.07`	`grepper`	`Oleg_: I am glad you realize that`
`16:46.14`	`Oleg_`	`I want sex as a good time`
`16:46.31`	`Oleg_`	`and with a prostitute there is always an element of firtiness`
`16:46.44`	`Oleg_`	`therefore I don't want a prostitute`
`16:46.55`	`Oleg_`	`dirtiness`
`16:47.01`	`Oleg_`	`not firtiness`
`16:47.33`	`*** join/#kde Unbeliever (~Unbelieve@129.9.223.82.arsystel.com)`
`16:47.44`	`Dhraakellian`	`!;)`
`16:48.19`	`*** join/#kde Billthe4th (~Billthe4t@82-32-41-146.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`16:48.29`	`Oleg_`	`I want sex based on the pure logic that boys and girls are attracted to each other and you don't have to be a prostitute for that`
`16:48.30`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@70.58.125.120)`
`16:51.44`	`Oleg_`	`I got a huge sexual pleasure from a girl 2 times, by kissing 2 of them on the cheek`
`16:51.47`	`*** join/#kde ralf285 (~matteo@openjlab.org)`
`16:52.00`	`Oleg_`	`but in bed I will get even more pleasure`
`16:52.55`	`jago25_98`	`Oleg_: sosuave.com`
`16:55.58`	`Oleg_`	`maybe I do UNDERESTIMATE how much women like me`
`16:56.44`	`Oleg_`	`yeah, I am a SUPER MALE`
`16:56.51`	`Oleg_`	`with SUPER MUSCLES`
`16:56.57`	`Oleg_`	`SUPER INTELLIGENCE`
`16:58.54`	`jal`	`virgin`
`16:58.58`	`annma`	`lol`
`16:59.29`	`*** join/#kde th0re (~th0re@83.243.140.5)`
`16:59.30`	`anhi`	`you talking in here makes that look very unlikely......`
`17:00.04`	`Oleg_`	`I go to gym`
`17:00.14`	`Oleg_`	`I am gonna go to the gym today too`
`17:00.53`	`*** join/#kde bipolar (~bflong@146.145.26.90)`
`17:01.35`	`Oleg_`	`I am not worried yet`
`17:01.42`	`Oleg_`	`it's just that I wanna have sex`
`17:01.51`	`*** join/#kde NullAcht15 (~NullAcht1@dsl-084-059-131-017.arcor-ip.net)`
`17:01.52`	`*** join/#kde oggb4mp3 (~konversat@static-64-115-217-12.isp.broadviewnet.net)`
`17:02.05`	`Oleg_`	`I never said I was worried about it`
`17:02.05`	`anhi`	`Dhraakellian: let me guess, you're female and hetero ? ;)`
`17:02.11`	`Oleg_`	`muhahahaha`
`17:02.30`	`Dhraakellian`	`anhi, ouch`
`17:02.40`	`jal`	`i've got a female friend in my bed, and i don't have sex with her`
`17:02.41`	`Dhraakellian`	`male and hetero`
`17:02.45`	`jal`	`willingly`
`17:02.54`	`anhi`	`Dhraakellian: relax, just kidding :D`
`17:02.59`	`Dhraakellian`	`!;)`
`17:03.14`	`Dhraakellian`	`jal, friend who crashed over at your place or something?`
`17:03.28`	`Dhraakellian`	`did you take the couch or floor?`
`17:03.37`	`jal`	`na.. sleeping-buddy of some sort`
`17:03.51`	`jal`	`like a fuck-budy.. without the fuck part`
`17:04.01`	`Dhraakellian`	`snrk`
`17:04.05`	`jal`	`h�h� ;)`
`17:04.10`	`Dhraakellian`	`but still nice for those cold nights`
`17:04.12`	`Oleg_`	`jal: come on, man, use your penis with her`
`17:04.38`	`Oleg_`	`be a SUPER LOVE`
`17:04.41`	`Oleg_`	`LOVER`
`17:04.46`	`jal`	`Dhraakellian: ;)`
`17:05.09`	`jal`	`/changecname #kdesexlife`
`17:05.11`	`anhi`	`don't say anything, it might be one of the FBI spy drones ;)`
`17:05.52`	`jal`	`one of thoses who simulates cyber-terrorist attacks.`
`17:05.53`	`jal`	`?`
`17:05.54`	`jal`	`;)`
`17:05.57`	`Dhraakellian`	`http://theobromas.blogspot.com/2005/05/new-resources-urgently-needed.html`
`17:06.41`	`jal`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:06.47`	`jal`	`L - O - L`
`17:07.05`	`*** join/#kde jorgp_ (~jorgp@bnet-dial2-222.bartnet.net)`
`17:07.44`	`Frost^`	`is it possible to develop in C for kde/qt?`
`17:08.13`	`annma`	`no`
`17:08.24`	`annma`	`Qt is CPP based, OOP`
`17:08.29`	`annma`	`C++`
`17:08.56`	`Frost^`	`yeah I know. I searched google for C bindings but couldn't find anything. just wanted to make sure`
`17:08.57`	`annma`	`you can add some C here and there but you cannot do a whole Qt/KDE app in C`
`17:08.57`	`*** join/#kde apow (~loas@200.141.88.40)`
`17:09.16`	`annma`	`C++ is really more powerful`
`17:09.17`	`Frost^`	`ok`
`17:09.32`	`Frost^`	`I actually do C++, I don't know C though`
`17:09.43`	`annma`	`:) join!`
`17:09.55`	`Frost^`	`join? where?`
`17:10.06`	`annma`	`the KDE devel community`
`17:10.10`	`Frost^`	`hahaha`
`17:10.21`	`Frost^`	`my level is not remotely close :)`
`17:10.30`	`annma`	`no need to be a wizard`
`17:10.38`	`Frost^`	`I don't know Qt well enough yet`
`17:10.45`	`annma`	`my level was 0L when I started`
`17:10.55`	`Frost^`	`nor how to use qt designer effectively`
`17:10.56`	`annma`	`I didn't know Qt at all`
`17:11.09`	`*** join/#kde osh (~osh@81-231-230-175-no21.tbcn.telia.com)`
`17:11.10`	`Frost^`	`(which is something I'm looking for)`
`17:11.10`	`annma`	`that's a breeze`
`17:11.11`	`*** join/#kde dualopteron (~dualopter@Dardeene-68.188.44.193.charter-stl.com)`
`17:11.26`	`Frost^`	`got a tutorial for qt designer?`
`17:11.36`	`annma`	`kdevelop and qt designer`
`17:11.42`	`Frost^`	`I don't really know Qt, but I took a look through the first tutorials`
`17:11.44`	`annma`	`you want kdevelop as well?`
`17:11.46`	`apow`	`i feel like contributing, but i really dont wanna touch c++ or any other compiled language anymore`
`17:11.47`	`*** part/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.60.9)`
`17:12.01`	`apow`	`i'll check qtruby, see if that's any good`
`17:12.06`	`Frost^`	`and the concept seems clear`
`17:12.09`	`annma`	`apow: you can do other things, maintain websites, write scripts`
`17:12.23`	`Frost^`	`ah, ruby. that's another thing on my todo list`
`17:12.26`	`apow`	`oh that i can do`
`17:12.28`	`annma`	`Frost^: I happened to write a tutorial for beginners`
`17:12.35`	`annma`	`for kdevelop & designer`
`17:12.36`	`Frost^`	`I hear a lot about it lately`
`17:12.45`	`apow`	`Frost^: aye, the rails frenzy`
`17:12.52`	`apow`	`it is well deserved.`
`17:12.55`	`Frost^`	`annma, may I have the url?`
`17:12.57`	`Dhraakellian`	`http://dot.kde.org/1098950311/`
`17:13.29`	`Dhraakellian`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:13.34`	`Frost^`	`apow, I studied python in like 3 hours. haven't practiced it much though.`
`17:13.46`	`annma`	`http://women.kde.org/articles/tutorials/kdevelop3/index.html`
`17:13.46`	`apow`	`Dhraakellian: the publisher link doesnt work :(`
`17:13.50`	`Frost^`	`Dhraakellian, thanks`
`17:13.50`	`annma`	`Frost^: ^^`
`17:14.06`	`apow`	`Frost^: python is cool, ruby is cooler :D`
`17:14.16`	`apow`	`imho anyway`
`17:14.20`	`Dhraakellian`	`apow, I have a copy that I downloaded back when that article was posted`
`17:14.34`	`Frost^`	`apow :)`
`17:14.39`	`Frost^`	`annma, thanks a lot`
`17:14.54`	`annma`	`you're welcome`
`17:15.27`	`Frost^`	`curious though, since you claimed to have known nothing before you got into the devel team, how did you start?`
`17:15.34`	`annma`	`coding consists for 95% in stealing other people code`
`17:15.35`	`apow`	`lol annma... i wanna name my future daughter after you`
`17:15.46`	`annma`	`Frost^: I started with kdevelop`
`17:15.47`	`apow`	`but in portuguese form of your name :)`
`17:15.56`	`apow`	`ana maria`
`17:16.06`	`*** join/#kde dualopteron (~dualopter@Dardeene-68.188.44.193.charter-stl.com)`
`17:16.09`	`annma`	`Frost^: I opened it and built a template then I filled it with some code`
`17:16.21`	`annma`	`Frost^: then real KDE people debugged it`
`17:16.27`	`Frost^`	`ah, nice`
`17:16.38`	`annma`	`Frost^: then I bought some C++ books`
`17:16.43`	`*** join/#kde wirwzd (~wirwzd@c-24-218-115-209.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`17:16.47`	`Frost^`	`that's pretty much what I did a few years ago with VB but it didn't go too well :p`
`17:16.50`	`annma`	`but I swear I never saw C++ code before`
`17:17.12`	`*** join/#kde phate (~phate@c-67-169-253-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`17:17.18`	`annma`	`I still need to learn a lot though`
`17:17.26`	`Frost^`	`I studied C++ at the university, but it feels like I don't even come close to mastering it`
`17:17.38`	`Frost^`	`annma, you're not alone. C++ is huge`
`17:17.48`	`*** part/#kde phate (~phate@c-67-169-253-228.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`17:17.58`	`Frost^`	`I was puzzled with a question I recieved a few days ago`
`17:18.11`	`annma`	`yes and looking at some good developer code makes me realize how far I am to know it`
`17:18.20`	`Frost^`	`"what happens when you have an exception in an object's destructor?"`
`17:18.39`	`Frost^`	`annma, practice is everything`
`17:18.40`	`*** join/#kde dualopteron (~dualopter@Dardeene-68.188.44.193.charter-stl.com)`
`17:19.19`	`Frost^`	`my goal with Qt is to be able to debug SIM at the end`
`17:21.53`	`Frost^`	`annma, the difference between us is that currently you have a way to practice :)`
`17:22.30`	`annma`	`;)`
`17:24.55`	`Dhraakellian`	`heh...`
`17:25.20`	`Dhraakellian`	`after reading a few chapters of that Qt book, I might take another look at amarok's source code`
`17:25.55`	`*** join/#kde mkerrin (~michael@83.70.173.25)`
`17:26.34`	`annma`	`apow: you'll be father soon? or is this a virtual naming wish?`
`17:27.19`	`*** join/#kde spiral (~spiral@84.5.151.35)`
`17:28.24`	`apow`	`i'll be married in an year`
`17:28.37`	`apow`	`and my soon to be wife has chosen this name for a possible girl`
`17:28.38`	`apow`	`:)`
`17:28.49`	`annma`	`:) wow`
`17:30.27`	`apow`	`my father, my 3 brothers and I are all called Luiz (Louis), as for her, her granny, her mom and all her aunts are called ana (anne)`
`17:30.42`	`*** join/#kde rogueRx- (~roguerx@overland10k.mo24.107.30.119.charter-stl.com)`
`17:30.46`	`apow`	`so i told her that we must keep this going, so we can have our own personal dynasty.`
`17:30.48`	`apow`	`:P`
`17:31.18`	`annma`	`;)`
`17:33.14`	`*** join/#kde lec (lec@24.151.49.193)`
`17:33.50`	`lec`	`hey`
`17:34.20`	`lec`	`how do I disable the thing so I have to hit "<space> to get a double quote and '<space> to get single?`
`17:35.14`	`lec2`	`lol and stuff like ^2 becoming � automatically`
`17:35.20`	`spiral`	`hello`
`17:35.49`	`spiral`	`hmmm, sorry... I've got a problem with kdevelop... When I run debug on a console C program, I don't see the console...`
`17:36.01`	`spiral`	`but when I run it normally, I see it...`
`17:36.07`	`spiral`	`do you know what misses ?`
`17:36.23`	`*** join/#kde wsjunior (1000@wsjunior.user)`
`17:38.03`	`Dhraakellian`	`lec2, keyboard layout with deadkeys?`
`17:39.23`	`lec2`	`not as far as I know?`
`17:39.35`	`lec2`	`generic 104 key pc is model`
`17:39.48`	`*** join/#kde cuco (~elcuco@bzq-82-80-135-4.red.bezeqint.net)`
`17:40.24`	`Dhraakellian`	`what keyboard layout?`
`17:40.35`	`lec2`	`default at the moment`
`17:40.40`	`lec2`	`not the u.s. english with deadkeys`
`17:41.01`	`Dhraakellian`	`try setting it to U.S. English (us)`
`17:41.13`	`lec2`	`there are 2 options`
`17:41.23`	`lec2`	`with deadkeys and isp9995-3`
`17:41.48`	`lec2`	`there we go`
`17:41.52`	`lec2`	`thanks :)`
`17:41.54`	`*** join/#kde morkeleb (~fredrik@84.217.124.17)`
`17:42.01`	`morkeleb`	`join #kde-devel`
`17:42.07`	`Dhraakellian`	`why?`
`17:42.07`	`*** part/#kde morkeleb (~fredrik@84.217.124.17)`
`17:42.33`	`lec2`	`any idea about getting the 'windows' keys to work? do I just have to assign them?`
`17:43.06`	`haltdef`	`i scratched my windows key off`
`17:43.18`	`*** join/#kde morkeleb (~fredrik@84.217.124.17)`
`17:43.24`	`Dhraakellian`	`haltdef, and put a little tux picture on it?`
`17:43.39`	`haltdef`	`not yet, printer is borked`
`17:43.46`	`Dhraakellian`	`sharpie?`
`17:44.20`	`lec2`	`hm`
`17:44.28`	`lec2`	`what is the kde 'start' menu called?`
`17:44.32`	`lec2`	`i want windows key to open it`
`17:44.36`	`Dhraakellian`	`kmenu`
`17:44.46`	`*** join/#kde lippel (~konversat@osterfeld.developer.kde)`
`17:45.01`	`*** join/#kde sism (~naw@thomas.adsl.no)`
`17:45.18`	`Dhraakellian`	`alt+F1 opens it by default, I think`
`17:45.26`	`lec2`	`yea`
`17:45.32`	`lec2`	`but when i try to use win as custom`
`17:45.37`	`lec2`	`it seems to only allow win+ something`
`17:45.40`	`lec2`	`not just win key`
`17:45.43`	`Dhraakellian`	`dunno`
`17:45.49`	`sism`	`What application do i need for the trash and the system icon on the desktop to work? i got a totally stripped kde install.`
`17:46.23`	`lec2`	`o well`
`17:46.25`	`lec2`	`unimportant`
`17:46.26`	`lec2`	`thanks :)`
`17:48.59`	`*** join/#kde xerxes1358 (~xerxes@145.116.3.187)`
`17:49.01`	`osh`	`what's a good kde-based distro? something that's fairly updated and has the usual software availible? Anyone?`
`17:49.35`	`*** join/#kde dh (~dh@p54A7C165.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`17:49.51`	`annma`	`KUbuntu`
`17:50.53`	`sism`	`anybody ?`
`17:51.26`	`annma`	`sism: how did you install kde?`
`17:51.50`	`osh`	`annma: I've tried it. It's ok but things like firefox is very dependant on gnome. Small annoyances but still annoying. ;-)`
`17:52.01`	`*** join/#kde elcuco (~elcuco@bzq-82-80-135-4.red.bezeqint.net)`
`17:52.22`	`annma`	`so? you can't get firefox in kubuntu?`
`17:52.31`	`annma`	`sism: ?`
`17:52.34`	`Dhraakellian`	`firefox dependant on gnome?`
`17:52.45`	`annma`	`yes, on gnome?`
`17:53.19`	`Dhraakellian`	`I know that FF's Tools > options got moved to Edit > Preferences because of Gnome's accursed HIG`
`17:53.36`	`sarah03`	`When did Firefox become dependent on GNOME?`
`17:53.39`	`sarah03`	`Did I miss something?`
`17:54.00`	`annma`	`it seems kubuntu makes it that way`
`17:58.14`	`*** join/#kde ExScite (~root@dialup-4.156.108.236.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net)`
`17:58.33`	`*** part/#kde ExScite (~root@dialup-4.156.108.236.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net)`
`17:59.52`	`*** join/#kde markey (~me@markey.user)`
`18:00.12`	`osh`	`I think kubuntu uses the ubuntu packages and ubuntu is very gnome-centric.`
`18:01.02`	`annma`	`except there is a K in kubuntu`
`18:01.06`	`*** join/#kde kc9ddi (~pmcdonnel@c-67-167-125-145.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`18:01.18`	`annma`	`this makes it K centric`
`18:01.20`	`kc9ddi`	`Does anyone know of a OS X version of Quanta?`
`18:01.47`	`annma`	`Quanta is a KDE based tool, kc9ddi`
`18:01.55`	`annma`	`that means it needs kdelibs`
`18:02.03`	`kc9ddi`	`I know - so it looks like the only solution is to install using Fink?`
`18:02.55`	`*** join/#kde illissius (~illissius@143.116-182-adsl-pool.axelero.hu)`
`18:02.58`	`annma`	`I am sure if you ship me your PC/laptop I'll find out though`
`18:03.04`	`kc9ddi`	`heh`
`18:05.25`	`Dhraakellian`	`if nothing else, it would free up the old laptop so that I could do some distro hopping on it without having to worry about my mom needing it for work-related stuff`
`18:06.17`	`*** join/#kde _osh (~osh@81-231-230-175-no21.tbcn.telia.com)`
`18:07.47`	`_osh`	`annma: Well, I think kubuntu is more of an overlay of ubuntu then it's own distro. It feels like that anyway...`
`18:08.03`	`Tm_T`	`mostly the same`
`18:08.08`	`annma`	`every KDE people who tried it was happy`
`18:08.17`	`Tm_T`	`I like it =)`
`18:08.17`	`annma`	`you asked, I said my opinion`
`18:08.25`	`Tm_T`	`I use Kubuntu atm`
`18:08.31`	`annma`	`:) see`
`18:08.39`	`annma`	`I doubt you tried it _osh`
`18:08.43`	`Dhraakellian`	`heh`
`18:08.51`	`_osh`	`annma: I'm running it right now.`
`18:08.52`	`Tm_T`	`_osh: yes you are`
`18:09.01`	`Dhraakellian`	`I tried to try the kubuntu liveCD, but it didn't want to finish booting on my system`
`18:09.11`	`annma`	`if you want a more up to date thing, just compile KDE from source and be done with it`
`18:09.11`	`Tm_T`	`haha`
`18:09.39`	`annma`	`;)`
`18:09.50`	`_osh`	`annma: Like gentoo or some other ricer-distribution?`
`18:09.56`	`annma`	`lol`
`18:10.01`	`annma`	`not at all`
`18:10.03`	`Dhraakellian`	`and, if you don't mind using the commandline a little, and solemnly swear to use conservative cflags, gentoo is nice for a from-source distro`
`18:10.12`	`annma`	`like grabbing the KDE tarballs and compile them by hand`
`18:10.23`	`annma`	`you don't need to be a ricer`
`18:10.48`	`Dhraakellian`	`annma, precisely`
`18:10.51`	`annma`	`osh: I have a base distro and then I compile kde`
`18:11.02`	`Tm_T`	`heh`
`18:11.05`	`annma`	`osh: so I have the real kde`
`18:11.17`	`annma`	`but my base distro is rpm-based`
`18:11.26`	`annma`	`osh: most devels do that`
`18:11.28`	`osh`	`annma: Haven't done that since KDE1.x. I recall that being as unfun as compiling X and glibc. Did all that when I was young and ambitious...`
`18:11.35`	`annma`	`bah`
`18:11.47`	`annma`	`you don't know what you want`
`18:11.48`	`osh`	`perhaps it's easier now...`
`18:11.56`	`annma`	`being young has nothing to do with it`
`18:12.02`	`annma`	`(believe me on that one)`
`18:12.19`	`sism`	`annma: i dont remember exactly, followed a guide on the gentoo forums, so i got only the most nececary things for kde to run`
`18:12.30`	`annma`	`sism: so gentoo, uh?`
`18:12.36`	`sism`	`yes`
`18:12.39`	`annma`	`splitted ebuilds?`
`18:12.44`	`annma`	`or monolithic?`
`18:12.51`	`annma`	`(see how pro I am)`
`18:12.53`	`sism`	`hehe`
`18:12.58`	`sism`	`well, that i dont know : p`
`18:12.59`	`Dhraakellian`	`snrk`
`18:13.09`	`annma`	`Dhraakellian: I hand you that poor user`
`18:13.10`	`Dhraakellian`	`sism, did you do emerge kde or emerge kde-meta?`
`18:13.14`	`annma`	`:)`
`18:13.17`	`sism`	`meta`
`18:13.20`	`Dhraakellian`	`!:�`
`18:13.22`	`annma`	`I'll note that line`
`18:13.27`	`Dhraakellian`	`then you have the split ebuilds`
`18:13.32`	`*** join/#kde _heiko (~heiko@dsl-084-059-055-200.arcor-ip.net)`
`18:13.42`	`annma`	`ok so meta == split`
`18:13.52`	`annma`	`you wise man, Dhraakellian`
`18:14.03`	`osh`	`annma: I want something that "just works". Kubuntu is nice but Ubuntu is more polished. Debian is the one on my servers and RHES30 at work. Debian is not ideal for my laptop and RHES is too expensive. IMHO.`
`18:14.18`	`sism`	`"klauncher said: Unknown protocol 'trash'."`
`18:14.19`	`Dhraakellian`	`annma, kdepackagename-meta installs everything for kdepackagename`
`18:14.31`	`annma`	`osh: whatever we say you're going to not like it`
`18:14.37`	`annma`	`osh: make your own choice`
`18:14.42`	`osh`	`So what I'd like is Ubuntu but with KDE. :-)`
`18:14.57`	`apow`	`apt-get install kde?`
`18:14.58`	`apow`	`lol`
`18:15.03`	`apow`	`i got ubuntu and kde`
`18:15.11`	`annma`	`apow: and you're happy?`
`18:15.21`	`apow`	`pretty much.`
`18:15.25`	`annma`	`or you think your lde look gnomish?`
`18:15.30`	`annma`	`;)`
`18:15.30`	`Tm_T`	`osh: well, ubuntu with KDE is... Kubuntu, basicly`
`18:15.33`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm...`
`18:15.36`	`apow`	`no kde looked like default install`
`18:15.37`	`sism`	`the thing is i dont know wich application that 'handles' the trash and system icon functions`
`18:15.43`	`apow`	`like, compiling from source`
`18:15.48`	`Dhraakellian`	`the semester is over`
`18:15.51`	`apow`	`the same as my gentoo box at home`
`18:16.02`	`annma`	`apow: I believe that`
`18:16.06`	`Dhraakellian`	`so I could probably just use the free time to go distro-hopping`
`18:16.12`	`annma`	`I don't know what osh does not like it`
`18:16.24`	`apow`	`hmm i should exchange this box here for mine at home`
`18:16.42`	`apow`	`bought a xp 2.8, 1.5 gb ram, 120 gb sata box :D`
`18:16.53`	`annma`	`wow`
`18:16.59`	`sism`	`annma: got any clue? : p`
`18:17.10`	`annma`	`sism: sorry, I don't do split gentoo`
`18:17.17`	`annma`	`very sorry about that`
`18:17.25`	`apow`	`sism there is a wiki entry for meta ebuilds`
`18:17.30`	`apow`	`ask in #gentoo`
`18:17.32`	`annma`	`kde ships kdelibs and kdebase as whole tarballs`
`18:17.39`	`annma`	`not split`
`18:17.39`	`sism`	`k thanks`
`18:17.54`	`Dhraakellian`	`heh`
`18:18.00`	`osh`	`annma: One example? Compare Synaptic and Kynaptic. And I'm just asking for your opinions. All distros have good and bad sides. I'm just trying to find out what strenghts and weaknesses you've found in different distros.`
`18:18.13`	`annma`	`Dhraakellian: look how nice I am today about G`
`18:18.24`	`annma`	`Dhraakellian: I even said I am very sorry`
`18:18.26`	`Dhraakellian`	`the only reason I can think of for using the split ebuilds is if I for some reason decide that I want to install some kde app from cvs`
`18:18.48`	`Dhraakellian`	`s/cvs/svn`
`18:18.55`	`annma`	`osh: what we know is KDE from source`
`18:18.59`	`Dhraakellian`	`annma, yes very gracious you are today`
`18:19.00`	`annma`	`it's what we advert`
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`18:19.06`	`annma`	`Dhraakellian: :)`
`18:19.14`	`apow`	`well, i'd surely like to upgrade kopete without resorting to recompiling kdenetwork`
`18:19.30`	`annma`	`apow: I can do that with svn`
`18:19.36`	`apow`	`but not with emerge ;)`
`18:19.40`	`annma`	`lol`
`18:19.45`	`apow`	`unless you go split ebuilds`
`18:19.55`	`Dhraakellian`	`oh, annma, I asked in #gentoo-kde how much gentoo changes KDE`
`18:19.55`	`apow`	`;)`
`18:20.00`	`Frost^`	`kopete, that's another app which needs debugging to the bone :)`
`18:20.00`	`*** join/#kde hetzer (~user@pD9E76C50.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:20.11`	`Dhraakellian`	`heh`
`18:20.17`	`Dhraakellian`	`I'm using gaim on a probationary basis here`
`18:20.18`	`Dhraakellian`	`atm`
`18:20.22`	`annma`	`Frost^: lol`
`18:20.37`	`Dhraakellian`	`I can say right off that kopete does a much better job at displaying metacontacts`
`18:20.42`	`annma`	`Frost^: devels always run ahead of themselves`
`18:20.51`	`Dhraakellian`	`[14:16:56]<firephoto> not many changes`
`18:20.51`	`Dhraakellian`	`[14:17:07]<firephoto> usually just some patches for the little bugs that come along.`
`18:20.51`	`Dhraakellian`	`[14:17:28]<firephoto> they do muck up the startkde script with some ~/.kde version switching stuff`
`18:20.51`	`Dhraakellian`	`[14:18:20]<firephoto> no look and feel or menu changing`
`18:21.01`	`Frost^`	`kopete is probably a good messanger, but I can't use it due to language issues`
`18:21.03`	`Dhraakellian`	`eep... thought it was only three lines... sorry`
`18:21.13`	`Dhraakellian`	`Frost^, bad translation?`
`18:21.24`	`Frost^`	`nah, not translation, support`
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`18:21.40`	`Frost^`	`my contact list includes some hebrew contacts`
`18:21.40`	`Dhraakellian`	`lack of translation?`
`18:21.45`	`Dhraakellian`	`aaah`
`18:21.49`	`Frost^`	`and I can't view their names properly`
`18:21.55`	`Frost^`	`nor can I chat with them`
`18:22.23`	`Frost^`	`I got similar issues in konq, I'm not sure if it's konq or qt actually`
`18:22.34`	`Dhraakellian`	`and, when gaim opens an IM window, it appears to use the window geometry of the buddylist window`
`18:22.48`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm... or not`
`18:22.52`	`Frost^`	`hehe`
`18:23.13`	`Dhraakellian`	`it did earlier`
`18:23.23`	`Dhraakellian`	`still, kopete is much prettier`
`18:24.00`	`Dhraakellian`	`and I was having a problem with a contact not showing up as online even though they were online and not invisible`
`18:24.37`	`annma`	`ok, gotta go`
`18:24.39`	`annma`	`bbl`
`18:24.42`	`annma`	`bye all`
`18:24.44`	`Dhraakellian`	`and a minor issue but still annoying: kopete doesn't handle /me in non-IRC`
`18:24.46`	`*** part/#kde annma (~annma@annma.developer.kde)`
`18:24.46`	`Dhraakellian`	`seeya`
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`18:34.32`	`jeff99`	`does anyone know how to burn kvcd using k3b?`
`18:38.32`	`PieD`	`can I hope that a bug reported a few minutes ago will be fixed for KDE 3.4.1, or is it already too late ?`
`18:39.02`	`lauri`	`too late`
`18:40.03`	`PieD`	`sad :/`
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`18:41.27`	`aseigo`	`what bug?`
`18:41.45`	`aseigo`	`and yes, far too late. 3.4.1 was tagged on monday`
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`18:54.33`	`ralf`	`what 'tagged' does mean?`
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`18:59.07`	`osh`	`ralf: that's a subversion term. Have a look at subversion.tigris.org. It has something to do with "freezing" development of a branch I think. (?)`
`19:00.37`	`*** join/#kde apow (~loas@200.141.88.40)`
`19:04.49`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm...`
`19:05.03`	`*** join/#kde jkeel (~joshua@kmc-ras1-p42.intrstar.net)`
`19:05.11`	`Dhraakellian`	`that thing with the IM window in gaim opening up with the same location and geometry as the buddylist happened again`
`19:07.00`	`*** join/#kde spiderworm (~spiderwor@70.58.125.120)`
`19:07.19`	`*** join/#kde aseigo (~aseigo@S01060050da7e3039.cg.shawcable.net)`
`19:10.11`	`slayerbob`	`hiya aseigo`
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`19:14.57`	`pinotree`	`hello`
`19:15.14`	`Dhraakellian`	`gazebo`
`19:21.07`	`slayerbob`	`gazebo ?`
`19:21.29`	`*** join/#kde sredna (~anders@alund.developer.kde)`
`19:21.46`	`slayerbob`	`hiya sredna`
`19:21.51`	`sredna`	`Hello`
`19:21.54`	`*** part/#kde philipacamaniac (~phliipaca@208-47-135-198.dia.cust.qwest.net)`
`19:22.30`	`sredna`	`:-)`
`19:23.54`	`slayerbob`	`heh`
`19:24.03`	`slayerbob`	`when i was a kid we used to go sailing all the time`
`19:31.21`	`*** join/#kde sredna (~anders@alund.developer.kde)`
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`19:39.09`	`Poprocks`	`what config file is the default web browser for kfmclient openURL stored in?`
`19:41.55`	`Poprocks`	`n/m found it`
`19:42.59`	`Poprocks`	`grep is such a useful tool isn't it ;-)`
`19:43.07`	`Poprocks`	`second only to Google`
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`19:46.58`	`ita`	`hola`
`19:47.05`	`*** join/#kde apow_ (~loas@200.141.88.40)`
`19:47.07`	`pinotree`	`hey ita`
`19:49.27`	`*** join/#kde Blissex (~konversat@82-69-39-138.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
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`20:09.28`	`*** join/#kde solsTiCe (~solsTiCe@d213-103-94-246.cust.tele2.fr)`
`20:09.53`	`solsTiCe`	`hi. i want a soft to catch ctrl-f1. how do i do that ?`
`20:10.20`	`solsTiCe`	`and that it will not to desktop 1`
`20:11.44`	`grepper`	`remove the shortcut`
`20:12.46`	`grepper`	`kcontrol->regional and accessability->shortcut keys`
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`20:24.05`	`desowin`	`hi everyone`
`20:24.39`	`desowin`	`when I use any kde app that support opening an archive file, I get an error: KStandardDirs: The resource type .ascii is not registered. How to fix this ?`
`20:26.57`	`*** join/#kde Alethes (pennywise@alethes.user)`
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`20:27.47`	`desowin`	`how to register these resources ?`
`20:29.14`	`*** join/#kde annma (~annma@annma.developer.kde)`
`20:29.39`	`solsTiCe`	`grepper: yes that is what i do. but there is no way to overwrite or bypass the already registred shortcut for only one app ?`
`20:32.57`	`*** join/#kde mae (~mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com)`
`20:33.09`	`*** join/#kde torsten (~torsten@p508682BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`20:33.47`	`*** join/#kde Jejem (jejem@ACaen-251-1-57-70.w83-115.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`20:34.28`	`Blissex`	`solsTiCe: look at the associations...`
`20:34.29`	`*** join/#kde thr1ce (~andrew@24-247-232-145.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com)`
`20:34.36`	`Jejem`	`hi! :) [/amsg]`
`20:34.42`	`Blissex`	`solsTiCe: which are global though.`
`20:35.15`	`desowin`	`the error: KStandardDirs: The resource type .ascii is not registered. happens only when i try to open .tar.gz .tar.bz2 or similiar archive, with zip's it works normally`
`20:36.12`	`*** join/#kde Vjaz (peksi@ranssi.paivola.net)`
`20:37.01`	`Vjaz`	`Does any website exist for "Konqueror tips and tricks" or something like that. I'm looking for a few things I would want to do with Konqueror.`
`20:37.09`	`annma`	`did you read the faq?`
`20:37.22`	`Vjaz`	`The one in the topic or something else?`
`20:37.43`	`annma`	`that one first`
`20:37.51`	`Vjaz`	`I read the "Webbrowsing with Konqueror" part.`
`20:37.57`	`Vjaz`	`It didn't include the stuff I want.`
`20:37.58`	`annma`	`or tell us what you are looking for`
`20:38.47`	`*** join/#kde thiago (~thiago@2002:c906:9986:8000:20c:76ff:fe12:812d)`
`20:38.50`	`Vjaz`	`Ok. Just thought I might have more luck with a generic question, since I think I asked for the stuff before...`
`20:38.53`	`Vjaz`	`Anyways...`
`20:38.55`	`Blissex`	`Vjaz: there are KDE FAQs with bits about Konqueror, and also a KDE user guide TNG that has a few more bits`
`20:39.10`	`Vjaz`	`The first thing is "rocker" gestures.`
`20:39.19`	`Vjaz`	`Like in Opera and some Firefox extensions.`
`20:39.23`	`Vjaz`	`Anyone know what I'm talking about?`
`20:40.38`	`*** join/#kde elcuco (~elcuco@bzq-218-232-235.red.bezeqint.net)`
`20:40.38`	`annma`	`not at all`
`20:40.46`	`Vjaz`	`It's basically just a neat way of using the "Back" and "Forward" movements.`
`20:40.51`	`annma`	`did you try kde-apps for extensions if any?`
`20:41.03`	`Vjaz`	`Hold right mouse button, click with left. That moves back.`
`20:41.10`	`Vjaz`	`The other way around moves forward.`
`20:41.15`	`annma`	`or do you want to hack the code yourself?`
`20:41.21`	`desowin`	`is there any kde polish channel ?`
`20:41.43`	`Vjaz`	`Well it's not that complex, so I possibly could, but I would be surprised if no one had already done it.`
`20:42.48`	`Vjaz`	`annma: The website kde-apps? I think I hadn't heard of it before (googled it). thanks`
`20:42.49`	`slayerbob`	`you mean like how a 7 button mouse uses the side buttons ?`
`20:43.12`	`Vjaz`	`Hm... I don't know how a 7 button mouse uses the side buttons.`
`20:43.32`	`slayerbob`	`well usually the left-side button is mapped to back, and the right-side button is mapped to forward`
`20:43.53`	`Vjaz`	`Ok, well I'm not exactly looking for that.`
`20:44.17`	`Vjaz`	`I want it so that if I click with the left button while holding the right button, the browser goes back.`
`20:44.35`	`Vjaz`	`And if I click the right button while holding the left button, the browser goes forward.`
`20:44.37`	`slayerbob`	`yes i know`
`20:44.52`	`slayerbob`	`i was just pointing out that it might be simpler to just buy another mouse :)`
`20:46.00`	`Vjaz`	`Oh. I don't know if I can find a trackball with 7 buttons.`
`20:46.31`	`slayerbob`	`they are easy to find :)`
`20:46.39`	`mae`	`where does one go to view and edit the kde hotkeys`
`20:47.26`	`Vjaz`	`mae: In the control center. Under "Regional & Accessibility"`
`20:47.36`	`mae`	`tyvm`
`20:47.40`	`Vjaz`	`slayerbob: Think so?`
`20:47.44`	`slayerbob`	`mae: kcontrol > Regional & Accessibility > KHotkeys`
`20:48.02`	`slayerbob`	`Vjaz: well i used to own a computer store and we sold them :)`
`20:48.08`	`slayerbob`	`so i know they existed at one time`
`20:48.10`	`Vjaz`	`slayerbob: Heh, ok.`
`20:48.12`	`slayerbob`	`i presume that they still do :P`
`20:49.04`	`Vjaz`	`slayerbob: This reminds me of this article I read about the Apple 1 button mouse. Someone pointed out that the interface in fact did use two buttons. The other one was called "double click".`
`20:49.17`	`slayerbob`	`lol`
`20:49.27`	`Vjaz`	`slayerbob: This is kind of the same thing. My mouse has five buttons. Two of them are called "rockers". :-P`
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`20:49.43`	`Vjaz`	`(or six buttons if you count double click)`
`20:51.00`	`slayerbob`	`you can double click all of the buttons usually`
`20:51.09`	`slayerbob`	`except for the scroll wheel type thingos`
`20:51.16`	`*** join/#kde nexu (~nexu@2001:888:10:284:bad:a55:c0de:ba5e)`
`20:51.26`	`Vjaz`	`Well yeah, but it's easiest to double click with the index finger.`
`20:52.38`	`Vjaz`	`And yeah, it's almost impossible to double click the wheel.`
`20:53.15`	`slayerbob`	`well... it is more a case of the wheel being expected to multi-click :P`
`20:54.11`	`Vjaz`	`Found a four button trackball, but it only has four buttons, no wheel, and it's operated with the index and middle fingers instead of the thumb...`
`20:54.32`	`mae`	`are there any plans to make a fully functional pager applet`
`20:54.43`	`Vjaz`	`slayerbob: Well I meant actually pressing the wheel down, like you can do with most wheels.`
`20:54.56`	`slayerbob`	`Vjaz: that is a separate mouse button`
`20:55.06`	`slayerbob`	`this is why normal scroll mouses are called 5-button mouses`
`20:55.20`	`slayerbob`	`three buttons (one on the wheel) plus wheel up and wheel down`
`20:55.29`	`Vjaz`	`Yes, I know.`
`20:58.13`	`*** part/#kde solsTiCe (~solsTiCe@d213-103-94-246.cust.tele2.fr)`
`20:58.55`	`Vjaz`	`Found a 7 button trackball by Logitech. Of course, it has different ball operation from my current trackball.`
`20:58.59`	`Vjaz`	`It looks huge.`
`20:59.56`	`Vjaz`	`Whoa, but Microsoft has one that is operated with the thumb. They've kind of embedded the two extra buttons in the two big buttons.`
`21:00.23`	`Vjaz`	`I have a bad feeling about that.`
`21:01.00`	`Vjaz`	`Dunno where else you'd put the extra buttons.`
`21:01.31`	`Vjaz`	`But this probably interests no one, and it is beyond my purpose of looking for the rocker gesture feature.`
`21:02.46`	`Vjaz`	`But that's not all!`
`21:02.58`	`Vjaz`	`I had other things (at least one thing) I was looking for Konqueror.`
`21:03.06`	`Vjaz`	`(couldn't find either at kde-apps, btw)`
`21:03.56`	`Vjaz`	`This is something both Opera and Firefox have. I want to write for example "google konqueror extensions" in the address bar to make it google for "konqueror extensions"`
`21:04.00`	`*** join/#kde Sho__ (EHS1@dsl-082-082-089-214.arcor-ip.net)`
`21:04.09`	`*** join/#kde pembo13 (~chatzilla@208.158.5.79)`
`21:04.31`	`Vjaz`	`I find this faster than switching to the separate search field, thank you very much.`
`21:04.54`	`Alethes`	`have you checked Web Shortcuts?`
`21:05.03`	`Alethes`	`under Configure Konqueror?`
`21:05.03`	`Vjaz`	`No, I don't think I have.`
`21:05.07`	`pembo13`	`i would like to setup a machine as kiosk of sorts to allow visitors to play video presentations, with KDE and the desktop env. of course, any suggestions as to what apps I could use?`
`21:06.24`	`Vjaz`	`This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, Alethes.`
`21:06.27`	`Vjaz`	`There is a problem though...`
`21:06.28`	`Alethes`	`np`
`21:06.43`	`Vjaz`	`It seems like it has been enabled the whole time, but it never worked.`
`21:06.46`	`*** join/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.60.9)`
`21:06.47`	`Vjaz`	`It doesn't work now either.`
`21:06.54`	`Oleg_`	`back from the gym`
`21:06.57`	`Oleg_`	`I got bigger`
`21:07.06`	`Alethes`	`did you check "Enable Web Shortcuts"?`
`21:07.13`	`Oleg_`	`but I am only 5'9 inches tall`
`21:07.20`	`Oleg_`	`...`
`21:07.32`	`Vjaz`	`Alethes: Yes.`
`21:07.35`	`*** part/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.60.9)`
`21:08.10`	`*** join/#kde haltdef (rabbit@82-37-153-50.cable.ubr01.wals.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`21:08.56`	`Alethes`	`are you using the space or colon delimiter?`
`21:10.03`	`Vjaz`	`Space...`
`21:10.09`	`*** join/#kde Worf (~worf@j-203.vc-graz.ac.at)`
`21:10.10`	`Vjaz`	`Just noticed, I need a colon, right?`
`21:10.13`	`Vjaz`	`Or can I change it?`
`21:10.29`	`Vjaz`	`Damn.`
`21:10.30`	`*** join/#kde praseodymium (~praseodym@cp293763-a.roose1.nb.home.nl)`
`21:10.32`	`Vjaz`	`Yes.`
`21:10.34`	`Vjaz`	`Thanks.`
`21:10.34`	`*** join/#kde Skiver (~DebianLin@60.48.207.215)`
`21:10.36`	`Alethes`	`:)`
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`21:10.56`	`eltino`	`Hi`
`21:10.59`	`praseodymium`	`hi`
`21:11.08`	`Vjaz`	`Still no idea about the rocker gestures though.`
`21:11.11`	`Vjaz`	`Hi, eltino.`
`21:11.21`	`praseodymium`	`any KDEPIM devs here?`
`21:11.30`	`Vjaz`	`About gestures... is there an option somewhere to make KHotKeys run at startup?`
`21:11.36`	`Vjaz`	`or login or whatever`
`21:11.43`	`praseodymium`	`it probably does already`
`21:11.44`	`praseodymium`	`let me c`
`21:11.50`	`*** part/#kde desowin (~kvirc@duc86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`21:11.59`	`Vjaz`	`It doesn't do that for me.`
`21:12.02`	`praseodymium`	`pf crash`
`21:12.02`	`praseodymium`	`wait`
`21:12.11`	`*** join/#kde mae (~mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com)`
`21:12.18`	`Vjaz`	`Also, it crashes if I run it while kded is running.`
`21:12.35`	`praseodymium`	`maybe take a look in the service manager (kde components)`
`21:12.36`	`praseodymium`	`brb`
`21:12.58`	`Vjaz`	`Or Kmilo, I think.`
`21:13.21`	`Vjaz`	`"KDE Special Key Notifier"... What does that even do?`
`21:13.30`	`Vjaz`	`Is it safe to disable KMilo?`
`21:13.46`	`Vjaz`	`There was no khotkeys in the service manager`
`21:14.58`	`praseodymium`	`unsure...`
`21:15.32`	`Vjaz`	`At least my keybindings work, so it has nothing to do with that...`
`21:16.10`	`*** join/#kde Standfest (~fanetz@80.81.38.186)`
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`21:24.09`	`lethal_`	`hi, I added a "Link to device" to konqueror's toolbar, but i cant find where to edit the Link`
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`21:27.39`	`\|rober\|`	`hi`
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`21:40.10`	`annma`	`let me drink you`
`21:40.21`	`annma`	`;)`
`21:40.28`	`pinotree`	`?`
`21:40.36`	`Jejem`	`lol`
`21:40.50`	`annma`	`(could not resist)`
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`21:44.43`	`slayerbob`	`lol annma`
`21:44.54`	`slayerbob`	`isn't absinthe deadly poison in any case ?`
`21:45.18`	`annma`	`tsss, no, it's a higher`
`21:45.19`	`slayerbob`	`i think i read an article on it in sciam or something years ago :P`
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`21:45.56`	`annma`	`it's just nearly pure alcool`
`21:46.01`	`annma`	`;)`
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`21:46.06`	`slayerbob`	`heh`
`21:46.13`	`slayerbob`	`like stroh :P`
`21:46.29`	`annma`	`probably, consiering the name strh seems deadlier`
`21:46.38`	`annma`	`stroh`
`21:46.42`	`annma`	`urgh`
`21:46.43`	`slayerbob`	`:P`
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`21:49.29`	`*** join/#kde argv[0] (~PJM@217.70.77.46)`
`21:49.37`	`argv[0]`	`greets`
`21:49.56`	`MrGrim`	`heh nice handle :)`
`21:50.23`	`*** join/#kde kaiowa (~kaiowa@14.red-82-158-57.user.auna.net)`
`21:50.26`	`argv[0]`	`i'm trying to fix a script (dbus init script) to work with xdm (currently ir just works with gdm). anyone could give me a hand? where should I place a xinitrc-like script so that it's ran when I login with xdm?`
`21:50.52`	`*** part/#kde DoktorTomoe (~doc@ppp-82-135-66-232.mnet-online.de)`
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`21:53.05`	`argv[0]`	`/s/xdm/kdm`
`21:53.53`	`MrGrim`	`argv[0]: sorry I can't help`
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`21:54.03`	`MrGrim`	`never used (x\|g\|k)dm`
`21:55.13`	`slayerbob`	`argv[0]: i think that is what your .xsession file is for`
`22:00.15`	`argv[0]`	`slayerbob: in my distro, .session isn't executed when using kdm`
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`22:02.01`	`snakattak_`	`how do I put kmail back into contact? everytime I launch kmail from contact, it opens its own separate window, outside of the kontact window`
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`22:03.49`	`snakattak_`	`nevermind, i guess I didn't close kmail completely before starting kontact`
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`22:05.54`	`lonki`	`anyne from the kolab project around?`
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`22:10.37`	`*** join/#kde Poprocks (~arklinux@CPE7ed9415afb2c-CM0012253dec94.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
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`22:14.48`	`Poprocks`	`is there any way to tell a KDE app, when invoking from the command line, to keep its window above others? eg: konsole --ontop or something like that?`
`22:15.53`	`Blissex`	`Poprocks: that is a window manager thingie`
`22:16.15`	`Blissex`	`Poprocks: you can tell the window maanger to keep some specific class of windows on top`
`22:17.16`	`*** join/#kde Lazydog (~Lazydog@acs-24-154-80-57.zoominternet.net)`
`22:17.22`	`Poprocks`	`maybe I'll explain what I'm trying to do`
`22:17.48`	`Poprocks`	`I'm writing a script that launches kdialog, then firefox -- when firefox launches, the kdialog loses focus and I don't want it to`
`22:18.07`	`Poprocks`	`so I thought maybe there was a way to keep kdialog on top when running it in a script`
`22:19.36`	`*** join/#kde StevenR (~foo@82-41-30-69.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`22:19.58`	`Alethes`	`use the "Special Window Settings" to keep it on top, centered, etc`
`22:20.12`	`*** join/#kde hettar (~hettar@ppp112-166.lns1.bne3.internode.on.net)`
`22:21.19`	`Poprocks`	`right but it's for a script... I want it to override whatever special window settings are set, and just get it on top.. maybe with dcop or something this can be done?`
`22:21.33`	`Alethes`	`no idea`
`22:21.36`	`Alethes`	`I imagine there's a way`
`22:22.51`	`Vjaz`	`Is it possible to access KNode via Kontact?`
`22:23.06`	`*** part/#kde kc9ddi (~pmcdonnel@c-67-167-125-145.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`22:23.34`	`Poprocks`	`I wonder if KNode has a kpart...`
`22:23.43`	`Alethes`	`from kontact, settings, select components`
`22:23.50`	`*** join/#kde spq (suBviCe@is.a.gentoogeek.info)`
`22:23.52`	`Poprocks`	`heh I guess that answers that question :)`
`22:24.15`	`Poprocks`	`heh that's very cool :)`
`22:24.54`	`Vjaz`	`Alethes: Thanks.`
`22:24.58`	`Alethes`	`np`
`22:25.22`	`Vjaz`	`In Kubuntu, KNode isn't in the menus at all by default. Only Kontact.`
`22:25.34`	`Vjaz`	`And it's nicer to have one window anyways.`
`22:25.42`	`Vjaz`	`I must say Kontact is pretty neat.`
`22:25.45`	`Poprocks`	`Alethes, I found a solution to the keep on top thingy -- there is a dcop thing you can do`
`22:25.53`	`Alethes`	`cool :)`
`22:26.00`	`Poprocks`	`yeah Kontact is good, isn't it`
`22:26.18`	`\|rober\|`	`it isn't, vi is good`
`22:26.23`	`\|rober\|`	`;)`
`22:26.26`	`Poprocks`	`well that was random`
`22:26.43`	`Poprocks`	`I mean, saying 'mutt is good' would have made more sense`
`22:27.13`	`\|rober\|`	`actually you can do whatever you want inside vim`
`22:27.31`	`*** join/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.58.70)`
`22:27.33`	`\|rober\|`	`you can even call mutt ;)`
`22:28.37`	`*** join/#kde klon (~klon@bonnett.gotadsl.co.uk)`
`22:29.27`	`*** part/#kde Oleg_ (~Oleg_@216.194.58.70)`
`22:30.08`	`Poprocks`	`true`
`22:30.20`	`Poprocks`	`I still say it was random ;-)`
`22:33.35`	`Vjaz`	`haha, yeah vi is good, but Kolourpaint is a lot better.`
`22:34.59`	`*** join/#kde xpato (~pato@ns.linuxcenterla.com)`
`22:35.06`	`Alethes`	`haha`
`22:37.51`	`Vjaz`	`Hey, I have yet another question (anyone noticed yet that I'm new to KDE?) . Is it possible to tell KDE to load my .Xmodmap at login? Yes, I know I can probably add "xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap" to some startup procedure, but I was wondering if KDE has any handling for Xmodmap built in. (Gnome does...)`
`22:38.00`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`anyone using amaroK? i have problems with low bit rate files, they sound echoey`
`22:39.27`	`Vjaz`	`I use amaroK, but I probably can do nothing to help you.`
`22:39.37`	`*** join/#kde exit_music (~babjo87@211.246.178.238)`
`22:40.31`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`u have no problems at all with amaroK?`
`22:40.42`	`Vjaz`	`Nothing so far.`
`22:41.20`	`Vjaz`	`How low is the bit rate on your files?`
`22:41.30`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`hmm ok, i have no problems with higher bitrates`
`22:41.56`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`64kbps`
`22:42.09`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`actually its not just lower bit rates`
`22:42.22`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`its the audio book files`
`22:42.30`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`music files are alright`
`22:42.49`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`both the wav and mp3 files of the audio books sound bad`
`22:42.49`	`Vjaz`	`Ok, I don't think I have anything at a bit rate that low.`
`22:43.22`	`Vjaz`	`And it's not a "low bit rate sound" but just a "bad sound"?`
`22:43.33`	`Vjaz`	`They sound fine in some other program?`
`22:43.39`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`yes, sounds fine in xmms`
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`22:45.10`	`Vjaz`	`TheGuyWithNoNick: I have no idea, sorry.`
`22:45.44`	`Vjaz`	`About my question on Xmodmap... if I actually do want to add the xmodmap-call to my start up procedure, how do I do that?`
`22:45.52`	`Vjaz`	`Can't see it in the control center.`
`22:55.15`	`*** part/#kde \|rober\| (~rober@83.Red-81-36-50.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
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`22:59.32`	`Vjaz`	`Anyone else experience a bug where Kontact asks for a mail password when starting it, and then the dialog doesn't respond to anything else besides closing the window?`
`23:03.19`	`*** join/#kde anjumbutt (~anjumbutt@203.130.16.187)`
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`23:19.46`	`parapente`	`I have been playing with ksmoothdock`
`23:20.19`	`parapente`	`does anyone know if a kde/qt form can be made to never be active?`
`23:22.08`	`*** join/#kde marcusU (~marcus@host-216-39-197-216.mylinuxisp.com)`
`23:22.34`	`marcusU`	`Has anyone had any success using OSS (without ALSA) along with SUSE's variant of KDE?`
`23:25.05`	`*** join/#kde MegaGamer (~anjumbutt@203.130.13.20)`
`23:27.19`	`slayerbob`	`have not tried it sorry marcusU, but it does work fine with standard kde, slack10 and slack10.1 with a custom kernel`
`23:28.24`	`marcusU`	`slayerbob: I think that the problem is that SUSE compiles KDE in such a way that ALSA is required. I'm really not liking SUSE's variant of KDE.`
`23:29.21`	`marcusU`	`But the sound from OSS/non-Free is so much better than ALSA or OSS/Free.`
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`23:32.16`	`Tronic`	`marcusU: You are actually getting sound out of OSS/non-free?`
`23:32.49`	`Tronic`	`I have been trying, because I got it for free, but found out that it is just completely useless. Nothing will work with it.`
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`23:34.10`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`woohoo, finally its working in amaroK`
`23:34.57`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`hmm, but the sample rate display is all messed up`
`23:35.24`	`MrGrim`	`so, amarok is still a flaky program then eh?`
`23:36.17`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`does amarok use OSS by default?`
`23:36.25`	`MrGrim`	`it always seemed to have that aura about it.. a program hardly ever written with much forethought into its design`
`23:36.48`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`i think twiddling with the buffer size made it work`
`23:36.48`	`MrGrim`	`no idea TheGuyWithNoNick`
`23:37.02`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`ahh ok`
`23:37.12`	`slayerbob`	`marcusU: it depends on your sound card`
`23:37.14`	`*** join/#kde radi0head (~freakshow@modemcable191.5-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`23:37.20`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`MrGrim: do u suggest a different player?`
`23:37.23`	`slayerbob`	`when i had a soundblaster live i found that linux sounds were crystal clear`
`23:37.24`	`MrGrim`	`(JuK) [The Bends] 12 - Radiohead - Street Spirit [Fade Out] [0:02/4:12] [MP3/201kbps/6.06MB]`
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`23:38.04`	`*** part/#kde adapt (~adapt@c-24-2-1-166.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)`
`23:38.06`	`MrGrim`	`slayerbob: I just use digital output... I know my reciever has 10x the dac's my sblive does`
`23:38.22`	`slayerbob`	`:P`
`23:38.25`	`MrGrim`	`TheGuyWithNoNick: I don't like to suggest players`
`23:38.30`	`MrGrim`	`everyone has their own unique needs`
`23:39.09`	`MrGrim`	`the sad part is it's some cheap pos sony $300 reciever`
`23:39.20`	`Tronic`	`02:37 < slayerbob> when i had a soundblaster live i found that linux sounds were crystal clear`
`23:39.25`	`MrGrim`	`nobody gives a f*ck about pc audio`
`23:39.33`	`TheGuyWithNoNick`	`hehe, i cant afford a $300 player`
`23:39.43`	`Tronic`	`When I had Live! 5.1 I found out that the sounds were skipping all the time if the card wasn't in proper PCI slot.`
`23:39.44`	`MrGrim`	`well, people do, but those who do think it needs to cost $1,000 for a sound card`
`23:39.55`	`MrGrim`	`TheGuyWithNoNick: this isn't a player`
`23:40.00`	`MrGrim`	`TheGuyWithNoNick: it's just a basic stereo reciever`
`23:40.01`	`Tronic`	`Creative apparently never heard of IRQ sharing.`
`23:40.10`	`MrGrim`	`w/ dolby digital and dts decoding`
`23:40.15`	`MrGrim`	`and 5.1 discrete analog input`
`23:40.32`	`slayerbob`	`Tronic: they heard of it - but for top quality stuff a couple of years ago irq sharing was insufficiently developed`
`23:40.40`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: ya... the sblive was picky about how the chipset worked`
`23:40.52`	`slayerbob`	`i just made sure i had a nice motherboard to go with it`
`23:41.04`	`MrGrim`	`I have a kt133 board which was notorious for not liking sblives`
`23:41.11`	`MrGrim`	`a bios update fixed it tho thankfully`
`23:41.17`	`slayerbob`	`heh`
`23:41.17`	`Tronic`	`slayerbob: Nah, they just didn't know how to do it right. Not even with the original Audigy.`
`23:41.32`	`MrGrim`	`I think Tronic is correct tho`
`23:41.34`	`slayerbob`	`i had the asus kt133a - worked flawlessly in every slot on that`
`23:41.45`	`MrGrim`	`slayerbob: kt133a != kt33`
`23:41.55`	`slayerbob`	`yeah he is - noone knew how to do irq sharing properly back then`
`23:41.56`	`MrGrim`	`the kt133 doesn't support 133mhz fsb even`
`23:41.59`	`MrGrim`	`even tho it is called kt133...`
`23:42.04`	`MrGrim`	`good ol' via and their marketing`
`23:42.08`	`slayerbob`	`MrGrim: i know - that is why i got the kt133a - it was the first decent via chipset`
`23:42.18`	`marcusU`	`Tronic: OSS/non-Free worked great with my 2.0 and 2.2 kernels, failed with my 2.4, and now works again with my 2.6. The volume levels of my Ensoniq 1370 are great with it.`
`23:42.26`	`MrGrim`	`slayerbob: decent being gneerous`
`23:42.29`	`marcusU`	`(The volume levels with OSS/Free and ALSA are really screwed up.)`
`23:42.42`	`slayerbob`	`MrGrim: well... relative to their previous offerings :P`
`23:42.53`	`slayerbob`	`actually i am still using that board in my desktop today`
`23:43.07`	`slayerbob`	`oh no wait`
`23:43.13`	`slayerbob`	`i am still using the soltek board`
`23:43.14`	`MrGrim`	`anyways, iirc the sblive has such problems w/ it because it uses some hack or assumes something about the pci bus that isn't part of the standard... or it abuses the standard`
`23:43.15`	`MrGrim`	`something`
`23:43.16`	`slayerbob`	`sold the asus one iirc`
`23:43.17`	`MrGrim`	`I forget exactly`
`23:43.26`	`slayerbob`	`oh no`
`23:43.29`	`slayerbob`	`i am forgetting`
`23:43.30`	`slayerbob`	`:S`
`23:43.49`	`slayerbob`	`Tronic: they required far less resources`
`23:43.58`	`Tronic`	`marcusU: Volume levels?`
`23:44.06`	`slayerbob`	`the whole point of the sblive! was that it did everything`
`23:44.16`	`slayerbob`	`most onboard solutions are powered by the cpu at least partially`
`23:44.18`	`Tronic`	`marcusU: You mean having to adjust to 74 instead of 100 to get the full undistorted volume?`
`23:44.52`	`MrGrim`	`slayerbob: no excuse for not playing nicely w/ other peripherals :)`
`23:45.04`	`marcusU`	`Tronic: Meaning that with ALSA, I have to crank master and pcm volume up to near 100%, which then produces noise from the speakers when I'm not playing anything.`
`23:45.09`	`slayerbob`	`MrGrim: well as i said, it did play nicely if you had a decent motherboard :)`
`23:45.19`	`Tronic`	`slayerbob: Did everything? Yeah, it resampled to 48 kHz with horrible quality. And also hardware-mixed multiple sounds together in hardware. Woohoo.`
`23:45.22`	`marcusU`	`Tronic: With OSS/non-Free, I can just set the volumes to 50%, and it sounds great.`
`23:45.43`	`MrGrim`	`no not a decent motherboard... just a motherboard that had a pci bus that was loosely designed so it didn't conflict w/ the sblive's improper use of it`
`23:46.40`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: well it did a little more... I've written a few assembler programs for the emu10k1 dsp :)`
`23:46.42`	`Tronic`	`slayerbob: There really isn't much use for Creative-style hardware audio acceleration. Granted, a very powerful FIR engine could be useful, but other than that I don't really see much use for hardware acceleration of sound.`
`23:46.45`	`MrGrim`	`it's not capable o fmuch`
`23:46.54`	`MrGrim`	`but it does a little more than resample poorly and do hardware mixing`
`23:47.03`	`marcusU`	`Okay. Gotta go. Bye`
`23:47.18`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: the point of hardware accelerated sound is in environmental sound`
`23:47.18`	`slayerbob`	`Tronic: you have obviously never played bf1942 on the machines of the time :P`
`23:47.21`	`Tronic`	`The CPU can very easily mix signals together and realtime resampling is seldom required.`
`23:47.30`	`MrGrim`	`not just mixing`
`23:47.34`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: Echo engines? Woohoo.`
`23:47.52`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: 3d mixing is piece of cake to do in the CPU.`
`23:48.18`	`*** join/#kde anjumbutt (~anjumbutt@203.130.13.20)`
`23:48.30`	`Tronic`	`What Aureal had was in deed quite interesting, but that turned out to be too much ahead of its time.`
`23:48.32`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: your ignorance is making you look pretty retarded right now... no offense.. but modern creative cards do more than just add echoes`
`23:48.56`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: Oh right, the add reverb too.`
`23:49.18`	`MrGrim`	`and besides... a LARGE part of how the environment changes sound is how it reverberates`
`23:49.42`	`MrGrim`	`the other is how a material changes sound when sound travels through it`
`23:49.50`	`MrGrim`	`which creative cards can also simulate`
`23:49.52`	`*** join/#kde philipacamaniac (~philip@ip68-228-49-137.tc.ph.cox.net)`
`23:51.03`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: don't get me wrong I think creative cards are a mediocre approach at best, but it's been shown that when environmental effects are used heavily creative cards provide a significant performance boost overall`
`23:51.32`	`*** join/#kde Billthe4th (~Billthe4t@82-32-41-146.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`23:51.35`	`MrGrim`	`aurreal's ray casting approach was definately the superior method`
`23:51.42`	`MrGrim`	`and it's a royal shame creative buried that approach`
`23:51.56`	`MrGrim`	`but, unfortunately there's little we can do about it`
`23:52.42`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: another computationaly expensive task that is nice to offload is positional audio with a two speaker system`
`23:53.02`	`MrGrim`	`especially if you have a system capable of positioning sounds above and below the listener`
`23:53.04`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: Most environmental effects of the signals could be pre-calculated easily.`
`23:53.31`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: the size of those precalculations rises exponentially with the complexity of the environment`
`23:53.41`	`MrGrim`	`as you have to account for every possible starting and ending point of a sound`
`23:54.00`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: Specific sounds only tend to occur in specific environments.`
`23:54.03`	`MrGrim`	`yes, it can be done in software`
`23:54.10`	`MrGrim`	`hell good looking 3d engines can be done in software`
`23:54.13`	`MrGrim`	`just about everything can`
`23:54.26`	`MrGrim`	`but a dedicated coprocessor has advantages`
`23:54.29`	`MrGrim`	`and that is why we use them`
`23:54.49`	`Tronic`	`IMO only doppler and 3d mixing (including delays) are something that needs to be done realtime.`
`23:55.11`	`MrGrim`	`imo you don't know enough about the subject matter to make such an assertion`
`23:55.13`	`MrGrim`	`or you wouldn't make it`
`23:55.19`	`*** join/#kde wsjunior (1000@wsjunior.user)`
`23:55.36`	`Tronic`	`For a 3D engine you can do static lightning by precalculation, but there it is not quite as practical as with sounds..`
`23:55.41`	`MrGrim`	`anyways, that's enough of this`
`23:55.51`	`MrGrim`	`time is ticking away and I have things to do`
`23:56.17`	`Tronic`	`Okay, perhaps I don't know enough of this ;)`
`23:56.34`	`Tronic`	`(well, I certainly don't know the specifics of later Creative APIs or hardware)`
`23:56.50`	`MrGrim`	`Tronic: don't get me wrong I appreciate your point of view, but if anyone ever made a half decent sound co processor`
`23:57.03`	`MrGrim`	`and a programmer took proper advantage of it`
`23:57.11`	`MrGrim`	`you'd understand why they would be a nice addition`
`23:57.19`	`*** join/#kde hettar (~hettar@ppp112-166.lns1.bne3.internode.on.net)`
`23:57.50`	`MrGrim`	`the recent creative cards do add a nice effect.. but it coul dbe so much better`
`23:58.22`	`Tronic`	`MrGrim: The first important question about that is: what kind of processing should it be able to do? Vector calculation, FIR, IIR, ... Sure, a nice job for a specialized audio processing unit.`
`23:58.53`	`Tronic`	`General-purpose arithmetics? No use for DSP. Just use the CPU, because it can do it better (read: cheaper).`
`23:58.56`	`MrGrim`	`I'd like to see where aureal would be today if creative didn't squash them`
`23:59.02`	`MrGrim`	`I think they were going in the right direction`

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