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| 05:02.01 | tponaf | anyone else have beowulf version mismatch for gimp and gimp-data packages? |
| 05:03.40 | tponaf | ah i can fix by apt purging gimp-data and reinstalling |
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| 06:42.08 | moiree | Is there a problem with updating the unstable archive? Looking at <http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/unstable/main/> shows the Contents-*.gz was last updated three days ago. Isn't it? |
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| 06:58.10 | meep_____ | moiree: some of the mirrors don't update very often |
| 06:58.17 | meep_____ | Try refreshing |
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| 06:59.59 | onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/apt-panopticon/results/Report-web.html for the mirror checker that tests things every ten minutes. The longest listed delay between updates is three hours. |
| 07:00.29 | moiree | hmm |
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| 14:03.46 | ebisu | Will it be possible to upgrade from the Devuan 3 Beta to the real Devuan 3 when it comes out? I'm running it on my desktop with no bugs at all other than the aforementioned and documented NTP bug which is easy to solve, but I want to put something more up to date on my server which is currently running the now 4 year old previous release of Slackware. Is it advisable? |
| 14:05.55 | mason | ebisu: It will, yes. |
| 14:06.26 | mason | ebisu: Also, Slackware 14.2 still gets active security support. It's just always at EL pacing. |
| 14:06.53 | ebisu | It does but it's incredibly difficult for me to stay on the ball with my setup at the moment. |
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| 14:07.37 | mason | ebisu: You're using slackpkg, yes? That makes it be largely on par with other tools. |
| 14:07.50 | mason | Folks doing it the older way have a bunch more work. |
| 14:08.04 | mason | But anyway, yes, you can go right from the beta to the release when it comes. Most of the packages will be unchanged. |
| 14:08.22 | ebisu | thank you for the info my dude |
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| 14:08.51 | mason | ebisu: The notable bit is that most of the packages are Debian Buster unmodified, so the notion of beta -> release will only really matter for Devuan-specific packages, which will almost certainly have very little churn. |
| 14:08.54 | Tenkawa | yay for apt :) |
| 14:09.13 | Tenkawa | .. and dpkg |
| 14:10.12 | mason | Tenkawa: The only thing to twitch about with slackpkg is how symlinks are registered. And it works, it's just a bit short of sane. |
| 14:11.48 | Tenkawa | hehehe.. I would love to see a hybrid of how busybox handles links in binary execution |
| 14:12.04 | starbarbarian | hi all. I upgrade my ascii install to beowulf without pinning anything. I am unable to install network-manager package because it depends on 'libpam-systemd'. Everything else works fine, so I'm not too concerned. I set up wicd instead. Just wondering if this is fixable and what can be done? I have a standard sources.list with beowulf entries. |
| 14:12.05 | Tenkawa | that is an amazingly efficient concepr |
| 14:12.16 | Tenkawa | er concept |
| 14:12.40 | ebisu | slackpkg is literally the greatest thing in the world and i actually completely despise apt but debian has better support for most packages and since im about to redo literally all of my services id rather not hunt down a long list of obscure dependencies for obscure programs again |
| 14:13.02 | mason | ebisu: That's pretty much the compelling factor right there. |
| 14:13.03 | ebisu | ive been putting it off for so long i feel like my server is decaying lol |
| 14:13.41 | mason | ebisu: Devuan is good. You'll like it. Upgrading it is easier still than upgrading Slackware. |
| 14:13.48 | ebisu | most specifically i have a very very specific XMPP setup |
| 14:14.10 | ebisu | yeah ive been moving to devuan on all my devices since the 3 beta, there was a short period for a few months where I was using the real debian 10 |
| 14:14.18 | Tenkawa | was a Slackware user for years but keeping it up to date just became perilous |
| 14:14.26 | mason | ebisu: Ah, there isn't as good a concept of correctly handling variant builds in Devuan. Slackware wins there, even if Gentoo wins more. |
| 14:14.28 | ebisu | I used slackware one everything for about 6 years |
| 14:14.43 | Tenkawa | ebisu: 1993-2000 or so here |
| 14:14.53 | Tenkawa | Debian since |
| 14:15.01 | ebisu | Best distro ive ever used but fortunately for me getting back into debian was easy because I used it from around 2010-2014 |
| 14:15.37 | mason | 2014 stands out in Debian's history. :) |
| 14:16.02 | Tenkawa | I helped port debian to raspberrypi 64 bit recently... now that was fun |
| 14:16.13 | Tenkawa | mason: oh? |
| 14:16.37 | ebisu | I have a friend IRL who I go to college with and he;s been running the same Slackware install since 2016 and he has the newest MESA, Xorg, and stable kernel pretty much at all times just from self updating and manually compiling packages himself, that guys something else because |
| 14:16.38 | Tenkawa | (I had memory issues and dont remember those years) |
| 14:17.04 | mason | This is better for #debianfork but I don't see you there. In short, systemd fiasco, ZFS fiasco, censorship fiasco around trying to censure Torvalds |
| 14:17.09 | ebisu | i dont have the patience for that lol |
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| 14:17.22 | Tenkawa | ebisu: yeah I'm one of those painful ones too that likes to build stuff all the time |
| 14:17.31 | mason | ebisu: Tell him to just run -current... |
| 14:17.35 | Tenkawa | ahhhh that |
| 14:17.44 | ebisu | i was like that but when i seriously screwed up my install i couldnt get ti back together |
| 14:18.03 | Tenkawa | all I run is current/unstable but I am a developer yhough |
| 14:18.05 | Tenkawa | er though |
| 14:18.17 | Tenkawa | I've spent 30 years building code |
| 14:18.31 | ebisu | mason the funny thing about current is that for the past 4 years its had a horrible graphics performance bug thats pretty much undiagnosable and ive asked literally everywhere online and everyone i know whose used current has ahad the same problem |
| 14:18.36 | tponaf | anybody interested in an irssi/weechat plugin for more colors in messages? |
| 14:18.43 | tponaf | and he wore a flaming crown http://0x0.st/ia9R.png |
| 14:18.48 | ebisu | im convinced it will never be fixed |
| 14:19.00 | Tenkawa | tponaf: I would be if I wasnt so darn colorblind :( |
| 14:19.13 | ebisu | the issue persists with radeonsi, amdgpu and even nvidias proprietary drivers |
| 14:19.31 | nemo | tponaf: btw, since you enjoy that kind of thing. ever checked out chafa? |
| 14:19.37 | nemo | tponaf: my fav terminal image client by far |
| 14:19.39 | tponaf | no |
| 14:19.46 | ebisu | also ive had current fail before, i hate rolling release |
| 14:19.54 | nemo | tponaf: here's my comparison screenshots, in mate-terminal |
| 14:20.21 | mason | ebisu: You're in the right place then. |
| 14:20.30 | Tenkawa | ebisu: yeah nvidia drivers plague my workhorse machine |
| 14:20.33 | nemo | tponaf: https://m8y.org/tmp/console_images/ |
| 14:20.52 | Tenkawa | but I really like the box so I deal |
| 14:20.54 | nemo | tponaf: catimg vs chafa. catimg also takes exponentially longer on larger images. |
| 14:20.54 | ebisu | but hey my computer works, like, actually works with no bs |
| 14:21.01 | ebisu | with devuan 3 now |
| 14:21.16 | tponaf | this is new to me |
| 14:21.22 | Tenkawa | I like my -j16 compiles :) |
| 14:21.34 | ebisu | Linux graphics drivers have advanced by 10 years during the gap between Debian 9 and 10 |
| 14:21.45 | Tenkawa | especially on a laptop |
| 14:21.58 | nemo | tponaf: https://github.com/hpjansson/chafa |
| 14:22.39 | Tenkawa | brb.. need to reboot for a kernel update..llol |
| 14:22.41 | Tenkawa | er lol |
| 14:22.41 | tponaf | nemo: catimg looks like it only has full-blocks, and xterm 256 color palette |
| 14:22.45 | nemo | tponaf: I compared catimg and chafa at a reasonable terminal font size, and at smallest mate-terminal allows sanely (holding down ctrl -) |
| 14:22.54 | nemo | tponaf: yeah. most are that way. |
| 14:23.05 | nemo | tponaf: chafa is really impressive in its character options and fitting |
| 14:23.30 | nemo | tponaf: /home/nemo/hg/chafa/tools/chafa/chafa --clear --symbols=all --fill=all -c full -s $(tput cols)x --font-ratio 2/5 "$1 |
| 14:24.39 | nemo | tponaf: (with my font a 2/5 ratio works well, and I wanted to use full screen width with scrolling upwards thus the -s set to columns width |
| 14:25.29 | nemo | tponaf: checkout how chafa performs with the smallest font size. it's crazy-close to the original. admittedly in a font where I can just barely make out what I'm typing. but still handy when working remotely. just shrink font, view image, then ctrl 0 it |
| 14:25.44 | tponaf | very nice to see dithering |
| 14:26.23 | nemo | tponaf: yep, although I'm usually on a full-colour terminal so not a high priority feature for me ⺠|
| 14:26.39 | nemo | tponaf: it's good for IRC though, if you're using the 16 colour or extended mIRC 100 colour |
| 14:26.56 | nemo | tponaf: can generate image in chafa then convert to mIRC codes with an ansi-to-mirc |
| 14:27.06 | nemo | last I checked he didn't have mIRC escaping builtin yet |
| 14:27.32 | tponaf | sadly the irc 99-color palette has redundancies and poor choices |
| 14:27.44 | nemo | tponaf: 100 colour! 0-99? |
| 14:27.44 | tponaf | my proposal has a 1000 color palette that works well for most sources |
| 14:27.54 | tponaf | well one is 'transparent' |
| 14:27.59 | nemo | tponaf: the redundancies were deliberate though. they wanted graceful fallback at the 16 colour wrap |
| 14:27.59 | tponaf | and at least 8 are redundant |
| 14:28.12 | nemo | tponaf: for clients doing %16 |
| 14:28.33 | tponaf | you don't really need to have redundant palette values in order to keep the first 16 colors in the same indeces |
| 14:28.37 | nemo | tponaf: what do you mean "transparent" ? 0 is not transparent |
| 14:29.03 | nemo | tponaf: what they wanted was people on the 16 colour set, when getting an image with the extended codes, to get something roughly comprehensible |
| 14:29.05 | tponaf | i think 99 is? |
| 14:29.08 | nemo | no |
| 14:29.17 | nemo | the last set is just a scale |
| 14:29.43 | nemo | tponaf: http://m8y.org/tmp/extended_mirc_color_proposal.html |
| 14:29.45 | tponaf | there is no need to duplicate colors to have the first 16 indeces identical to the 16-color palette |
| 14:29.53 | nemo | hm |
| 14:29.56 | nemo | I stand corrected |
| 14:30.00 | nemo | tponaf: you're right. 99 is undefined |
| 14:30.24 | nemo | well. not even transparent. so 0-98 |
| 14:31.05 | nemo | tponaf: yeah, the intent was to degrade gracefully so people on 16 wouldn't get wildly different colours |
| 14:31.19 | nemo | tponaf: so that %16 would usually have a reasonable-ish mapping |
| 14:31.40 | nemo | and a lot of people *are* on 16 colour terminals or IRC clients. even people who routinely use full-colour |
| 14:32.03 | nemo | tponaf: that said, irssi does support fullcolour ansi - it's just crazy verbose and breaks IRC unless the server supports IRCv3 |
| 14:32.45 | tponaf | that's why i wrote a protocol suitable to the task |
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| 14:33.00 | nemo | yeah, but no one uses the ansi in irssi due to lack of backwards compat |
| 14:33.09 | tponaf | his 'work factor' is very interesting |
| 14:34.30 | nemo | tponaf: you mean implementation-wise or as a concept? |
| 14:34.58 | tponaf | i've been thinking about that problem a lot, haven't written anything useful |
| 14:34.58 | nemo | tponaf: it's definitely awesome to be able to choose between "best possible rendering for a conversion" and "quick thing to view in terminal" |
| 14:35.02 | tponaf | so i'll definitely look at this |
| 14:35.05 | tponaf | thanks for the link |
| 14:35.11 | nemo | np. I'm a big fan |
| 14:35.18 | nemo | so far just submitted one teensy weensy patch |
| 14:35.35 | nemo | but already obsoleted by his last rewrite ⺠|
| 14:35.46 | nemo | hm |
| 14:35.47 | nemo | I think. |
| 14:35.52 | nemo | looks to see if it is still there |
| 14:37.13 | nemo | https://github.com/hpjansson/chafa/commit/ebae1a6cacbd5a0144cc52d9161bb50c4fbffc62 |
| 14:37.40 | nemo | just a teensy weensy change and it's still kinda there. he's been still working like mad on this though, which is awesome |
| 14:37.53 | tponaf | nice fix |
| 14:41.49 | nemo | tponaf: I use chafa a lot when working on websites. |
| 14:42.17 | nemo | tponaf: so the white on white svg thing was breaking my picking of the right svg icon for a stylesheet I was fixing remotely ⺠|
| 14:42.27 | nemo | I probably should tip him |
| 14:43.10 | tponaf | it is good to submit fixes ++ |
| 14:43.14 | tponaf | i should do more |
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| 19:28.18 | tankyard | Hi all |
| 19:29.10 | tankyard | I need a little help with devuan, I installed beowulf and updated to ceres |
| 19:31.05 | tankyard | anytime I install something from terminal I get message "apt-listchanges:Can't set locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct |
| 19:31.25 | tankyard | and also about perl warning |
| 19:31.37 | meep_____ | Configure your locale |
| 19:31.54 | tankyard | can you explain me how I'm average linux user |
| 19:32.46 | meep_____ | Tankyard: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/Guide |
| 19:33.38 | furrywolf | if you're an average linux user, running ceres is probably a bad idea. :) |
| 19:33.40 | furrywolf | bbl, time for work |
| 19:34.43 | meep_____ | Idk about that |
| 19:35.01 | meep_____ | The average linux user is very much above average computer user level |
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| 19:35.23 | tankyard | usually I find problems on internet when I get stucked but for this I couldn't, didn't knew that Gentoo guide works same for Devuan |
| 19:35.27 | meep_____ | Besides, nothing wrong with giving someone a manual |
| 19:36.01 | tankyard | I really don't have any problems beside this, I'm running i3 WM |
| 19:37.28 | meep_____ | Be like UNIX and don't assume the user is stupid |
| 19:37.49 | meep_____ | That's Windows and OSX's job |
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| 19:44.11 | meep_____ | Tankyard, most of the time the only difference between distributions is the themes the gui comes with, software installed by default, library versions, and different automated tooling doing the same manual tasks |
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| 19:44.37 | meep_____ | Which |
| 19:44.48 | ejr | hi! am i the only one who gets the longer shutdown time when shutting down devuan with full-disk encryption? it usually takes about 30 seconds, hanging at "sda5_crypt...busy" |
| 19:44.48 | meep_____ | You can setup locale by hand, without automated tooling |
| 19:45.13 | meep_____ | ejr: there is a bug opened about that |
| 19:45.35 | meep_____ | They need someone to test different eudev versions before they pass it off to the filesystem team |
| 19:45.42 | meep_____ | If you'd be up for it |
| 19:45.48 | tankyard | I will try now the guide which you sent me, I was thinkng to try by Arch guide but then I realized that Arch use systemd and maybe it won't work on Devuan |
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| 19:49.19 | ejr | meep: i'm not really sure how I could test that, I am by no means an expert in that |
| 19:49.54 | fsmithred | ejr, known problem. I'll get the fix for you. |
| 19:51.03 | ejr | thanks! |
| 19:51.18 | fsmithred | https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/cryptsetup-modified-functions/blob/master/cryptdisks-functions |
| 19:51.45 | fsmithred | replace /lib/cryptsetup/cryptdisks-functions with that file |
| 19:51.58 | meep_____ | Oh |
| 19:52.01 | meep_____ | fsmithred: |
| 19:52.10 | fsmithred | ? |
| 19:52.19 | meep_____ | Is there a fix or is that just the lowering of timeout workaround? |
| 19:52.56 | fsmithred | well, that one eliminates the loop, so yeah, faster timeout |
| 19:53.00 | fsmithred | also has a fix for lvm |
| 19:53.12 | ejr | thank you very much! |
| 19:53.43 | fsmithred | apparently, a real fix would involve switching to initramfs for shutdown |
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| 20:15.29 | tankyard | <meep_____> thnx for the guide I've configured the locale |
| 20:18.36 | meep_____ | np |
| 20:22.02 | golinux | meep-meeps meep |
| 20:22.15 | golinux | _____ |
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| 20:26.39 | yeti | :-D |
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| 21:23.51 | meep_____ | arooos gollinux |
| 21:24.58 | MinceR | kang aroo? |
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| 23:37.27 | meep_____ | https://upload.nuegia.net/b9776824-cd95-48a8-835a-eb3533f364bc/invid.js |
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| 23:54.39 | aitor | hi |
| 23:54.51 | aitor | about the localization mentioned above... |
| 23:55.28 | Guest79364 | apt-get install locales |
| 23:55.43 | Guest79364 | sed -e 's/# en_US.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8/' -i /etc/locale.gen |
| 23:55.56 | Guest79364 | locale-gen en_US.UTF-8 |
| 23:56.12 | Guest79364 | update-locale LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=en_US.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 |
