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| 01:20.51 | mason | FatPhil: Fair enough. :) |
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| 03:50.20 | tuxd3v | hello, I discovered a bug in sane-utils |
| 03:50.31 | tuxd3v | when trying to start the service.. |
| 03:50.34 | tuxd3v | https://paste2.org/OaUdF7d5 |
| 03:50.46 | tuxd3v | /etc/init.d/saned restart |
| 03:50.56 | tuxd3v | tested in [ armel ] |
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| 04:31.57 | tuxd3v | solved!! |
| 04:32.04 | tuxd3v | apt-get install libsane-hpaio libsane-common |
| 04:32.09 | tuxd3v | :) |
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| 10:25.17 | grin[m] | Good localtime()! |
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| 12:53.11 | nemo | ok... it's been several weeks and apt-get update for me still hangs on "working" right after the ascii-backports main i386 |
| 12:53.20 | nemo | does anyone have any ideas for what could be broken? |
| 12:54.02 | nemo | ah. DDG search says to try "apt-get clean" |
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| 12:56.41 | nemo | that did not work |
| 12:57.00 | nemo | nor did blowing away /var/lib/apt/lists/ |
| 12:57.56 | nemo | righto gonna get rid of some sources then |
| 12:58.51 | nemo | hm. that did not help either |
| 13:00.13 | nemo | ah. getting rid of the mariadb debian one fixed. interesting |
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| 15:45.19 | systemdlete2 | I switched my desktop to lxqt on my laptop just to see if the battery/power function works any better. |
| 15:45.25 | systemdlete2 | So far, no. |
| 15:46.05 | systemdlete2 | It is sitting at 13% now after almost a day of charging. This can't be a good sign. |
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| 15:49.05 | systemdlete2 | imagines what else he could have spent $450 on... |
| 15:49.44 | nemo | systemdlete2: well. there *are* power debug tools for linux |
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| 15:50.06 | nemo | systemdlete2: and linux is notorious for having issues with configuring power profiles safely |
| 15:50.18 | nemo | but 13% after a day of charging sounds like a lot more brokenness than that |
| 15:50.18 | systemdlete2 | nice. |
| 15:50.38 | nemo | systemdlete2: the problem is the usual linux issue with undocumented hardware and lack of vendor support |
| 15:50.51 | systemdlete2 | but, nemo, it was charging much more rapidly under xfce! |
| 15:50.51 | nemo | systemdlete2: but yeah. 13% sounds like way beyond that. |
| 15:50.56 | nemo | interesting |
| 15:51.14 | systemdlete2 | Maybe I should switch back and observe, then return to lxqt |
| 15:51.19 | nemo | systemdlete2: do you have a CPU monitor enabled? |
| 15:51.26 | nemo | is anything continuously burning CPU? |
| 15:51.31 | systemdlete2 | no |
| 15:51.40 | systemdlete2 | firefox.... heheheh |
| 15:52.03 | nemo | systemdlete2: well. that's entirely dependent on the websites you are visiting usually ⺠|
| 15:52.09 | nemo | and how much you are using or not using noscript ð |
| 15:52.27 | systemdlete2 | sure. But, again, on xfce, totally different story |
| 15:52.28 | nemo | systemdlete2: and whether you enabled layers acceleration in firefox about:config |
| 15:52.37 | nemo | systemdlete2: what window manager are you using for lxqt? |
| 15:52.41 | nemo | and does it use hardware compositing? |
| 15:52.44 | systemdlete2 | no idea |
| 15:52.48 | nemo | huh |
| 15:52.59 | nemo | how did you install lxqt? |
| 15:53.04 | systemdlete2 | I think when I looked it was xfwm |
| 15:53.12 | nemo | are you using compton? |
| 15:53.13 | nemo | ok |
| 15:53.14 | systemdlete2 | apt-get install lxqt |
| 15:53.27 | nemo | hrm. problem is I don't want to do that locally. let's see what the deptree is for that |
| 15:53.52 | systemdlete2 | It hauled in tons and tons of shit |
| 15:54.09 | nemo | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/lxqt-core_13.html looks like you're right |
| 15:54.49 | nemo | systemdlete2: xwfm4 does have compositing these days |
| 15:54.54 | nemo | systemdlete2: could you check to see if it is enabled? |
| 15:54.57 | systemdlete2 | all 4 cpu cores are "quiet" |
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| 15:55.03 | nemo | yeah, I figured from your confusion |
| 15:55.08 | nemo | thus why I wanna check the gpu |
| 15:55.21 | nemo | systemdlete2: but such slow charging is ridiculous if it is plugged in |
| 15:55.30 | nemo | that really suggests something terribly broken in how you are charging it |
| 15:55.44 | systemdlete2 | this laptop has issues even under xfce, just not this bad |
| 15:55.46 | nemo | no matter how much you are burning CPU |
| 15:55.52 | nemo | I'd RMA it ASAP |
| 15:56.06 | systemdlete2 | crud. |
| 15:56.25 | systemdlete2 | but i thought of that also |
| 15:56.33 | systemdlete2 | and I balked at the idea |
| 15:58.17 | systemdlete2 | compton: no |
| 15:58.27 | systemdlete2 | I can enable it |
| 15:59.06 | nemo | eh |
| 15:59.17 | systemdlete2 | now on |
| 15:59.20 | nemo | systemdlete2: seems like that would hardly clarify matters |
| 15:59.36 | systemdlete2 | 14% |
| 15:59.44 | nemo | hm |
| 15:59.46 | systemdlete2 | let's wait a moment, shall we? |
| 16:00.06 | nemo | systemdlete2: are you *sure* your CPU was quiet before that? how were you measuring it? |
| 16:00.07 | systemdlete2 | could be it started going a bit faster |
| 16:00.15 | systemdlete2 | htop |
| 16:00.28 | systemdlete2 | really haven't been on this thing much |
| 16:00.40 | systemdlete2 | have an open ff running though |
| 16:00.49 | systemdlete2 | but no heavy graphics or the like |
| 16:00.52 | nemo | ok. I have software compositing enabled in MATE on this computer (necessary to have firefox hardware acceleration and vmware view working normally) |
| 16:01.01 | nemo | and wiggling a window around in htop reliably kicks up CPU |
| 16:01.08 | nemo | so you should have seen desktop burning CPU if that was the issue |
| 16:01.17 | nemo | systemdlete2: do you have layers acceleration enabled in firefox? |
| 16:01.29 | systemdlete2 | not sure |
| 16:01.44 | nemo | layers.acceleration.force-enabled true |
| 16:01.47 | nemo | about:config |
| 16:02.03 | nemo | optionally gfx.webrender.all true |
| 16:02.07 | systemdlete2 | now it is |
| 16:02.15 | nemo | ok. you'll need to restart firefox |
| 16:02.28 | nemo | systemdlete2: without those flags it uses software rendering too |
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| 16:02.47 | nemo | systemdlete2: and might be a reasonable hit on interaction w/ X. dunno how that works 'sactly |
| 16:03.11 | systemdlete2 | rebooting. lxqt or xfce this time? |
| 16:03.28 | systemdlete2 | 15% now! |
| 16:03.38 | nemo | systemdlete2: I have noticed on wimpy laptop graphics cards that accelerated apps like firefox/vmware/games can break badly with hardware composited desktops |
| 16:03.54 | nemo | systemdlete2: that's just insane. |
| 16:04.08 | nemo | systemdlete2: what the heck CPU are you using anyway? |
| 16:04.14 | systemdlete2 | so it appears to be more rapidly charging now |
| 16:04.25 | systemdlete2 | it is asus T101AH |
| 16:05.01 | nemo | hm. Intel chip |
| 16:05.18 | nemo | systemdlete2: I assume you have all the security microcode to waste intel CPU due to their idiocy enabled |
| 16:05.44 | systemdlete2 | I went for features and price, sorry... |
| 16:06.01 | systemdlete2 | well let me reboot |
| 16:06.09 | systemdlete2 | bbs |
| 16:07.33 | systemdlete2 | hmmm.... tried to leave the desktop and got a (blocking?) notificatoin that the power manager is havenig an error |
| 16:07.37 | nemo | I'm just speculating as to possible causes of CPU power consumption that would be so awful as to completely eff up charging. |
| 16:07.40 | systemdlete2 | wont let me log out |
| 16:07.45 | nemo | Intel chip performing subpar is a possibility |
| 16:07.49 | nemo | wow. that's nuts |
| 16:07.53 | nemo | what's the error? |
| 16:08.19 | nemo | found asus website for your laptop. don't see any information on the powersupply though. what's printed on it? |
| 16:08.27 | systemdlete2 | interactive authenticatoin required |
| 16:08.53 | systemdlete2 | not much actually. Pretty plain case. |
| 16:09.09 | systemdlete2 | ASuS logo |
| 16:09.16 | nemo | systemdlete2: there's no black AC/DC converter anywhere on the power supply with an output DC printed on it? |
| 16:09.24 | nemo | you know, like 95% of laptops have? ⺠|
| 16:09.38 | systemdlete2 | the brick? |
| 16:09.41 | nemo | yes |
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| 16:10.28 | nemo | you know, the laptop equivalent of the power supply ð |
| 16:10.40 | systemdlete2 | yes. Lots of teensy weensy lettering in a rather beige color against black |
| 16:10.52 | nemo | hm. |
| 16:11.09 | systemdlete2 | I'll need a flashlight, magnifying lense, and rosetta stone |
| 16:11.10 | nemo | near the top you should see OUTPUT somewhere |
| 16:11.17 | systemdlete2 | I have 2 of 3 |
| 16:11.17 | nemo | I think it's one of the major things to report |
| 16:11.23 | nemo | with a number in probably amps |
| 16:12.04 | systemdlete2 | when I say weensy... I mean WEENSY |
| 16:12.42 | nemo | mm |
| 16:12.56 | nemo | I just dug my work laptop out of bag |
| 16:13.02 | nemo | it's a dell (and thus intel ⺠) |
| 16:13.06 | systemdlete2 | 5V 2.0A |
| 16:13.11 | nemo | it charges very normally |
| 16:13.17 | nemo | wow. that's pathetic |
| 16:13.22 | nemo | it's like a laptop |
| 16:13.26 | systemdlete2 | came with the laptop |
| 16:13.27 | nemo | er *tablet |
| 16:13.37 | systemdlete2 | laptop/tablet |
| 16:13.37 | nemo | well. you can't do much about it. but no wonder it charges like crap |
| 16:13.49 | nemo | my work laptop here is 4.67/19.5 ! |
| 16:14.11 | systemdlete2 | Is that V and A or A and V? |
| 16:14.14 | nemo | so, can supply like ¼ of the power of my desktop PSU |
| 16:14.34 | nemo | systemdlete2: doesn't really matter if you're just wanting watts but A/V |
| 16:14.45 | systemdlete2 | uh-huh |
| 16:14.59 | nemo | so 9x the watts of your wimpy power supply |
| 16:15.01 | nemo | what idiots designed that |
| 16:15.09 | nemo | poor thing should be able to handle max load! |
| 16:15.17 | nemo | what if you want to do something fun with it for a significant amount of time? |
| 16:15.26 | nemo | there's no way your system consumes that little when in use |
| 16:15.40 | nemo | systemdlete2: so. sounds like you might need to do some power profiling too to make that thing usable |
| 16:16.24 | systemdlete2 | let me try to reboot again |
| 16:16.30 | nemo | I have zero familiarity with that btw |
| 16:16.33 | nemo | but... powerstat? |
| 16:16.47 | systemdlete2 | same error |
| 16:17.12 | nemo | systemdlete2: yeah. dunno. check your xsession errors or something maybe. I'm unfamiliar with what XFCE is even using for power management |
| 16:18.02 | systemdlete2 | well it's lxqt, xfwm is just the wm |
| 16:18.12 | systemdlete2 | it has its OWN power management widget |
| 16:18.17 | nemo | ah. thought you were back on XFCE |
| 16:18.24 | systemdlete2 | can't reboot!!! |
| 16:18.35 | systemdlete2 | I'll have to do this the nasty way |
| 16:18.39 | systemdlete2 | (cmd line) |
| 16:19.03 | systemdlete2 | btw powertop shows compton top consumer n |
| 16:20.21 | systemdlete2 | powerstat says device not discharging |
| 16:20.25 | systemdlete2 | so it can't measure |
| 16:20.31 | systemdlete2 | again, let me reboot |
| 16:20.53 | systemdlete2 | stuck at 15%, btw... ugh |
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| 16:32.09 | systemdlete | nemo: Back on my desktop |
| 16:32.44 | systemdlete | Now, when I try to login to xfce4, the entire desktop is gone. So I tried mate, but I can't get a wireless connection -- says no wireless netowrks found |
| 16:32.59 | systemdlete | which is nonsense. There are tons around here that are on all the time. |
| 16:33.30 | systemdlete | That RMA is beginning to sound good... even relieving! |
| 16:34.36 | nemo | hehe |
| 16:34.44 | systemdlete | I'm seriously thinking of re-installing the whole damn laptop with the new 2.1 ISO |
| 16:34.45 | nemo | systemdlete: as for the desktop missing. no idea. some corruption? |
| 16:35.04 | nemo | systemdlete: could check the drive for issues, and run memtest |
| 16:35.14 | systemdlete | I removed .config/xfce4 and tried logging in again, but no dice |
| 16:35.21 | nemo | but expecting the system to work fine on so little power is pretty nuts period |
| 16:35.44 | nemo | systemdlete: probably should ask the xfce channel how you properly reset it |
| 16:35.46 | systemdlete | me or it? |
| 16:35.58 | nemo | that power supply - I'm still stuck on that |
| 16:36.08 | nemo | you shouldn't have to hack the desktop to support something so ridiculous |
| 16:37.13 | systemdlete | I just googled it, and I did reset it the right way. |
| 16:37.32 | systemdlete | (I actually mv'd the directory, just in case I want to restore some parts of it |
| 16:37.56 | systemdlete | It looks to me that xfce4 installation is now corrupted somehow. BTW, there is a ton of free space on that thing. |
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| 16:39.26 | systemdlete | but now that I lost wireless also... |
| 16:39.29 | systemdlete | oh |
| 16:40.04 | systemdlete | yesterday, I had to restore my home dir after trying ecryptfs. But it was only AFTER that restore that I first tried lxqt. |
| 16:40.12 | systemdlete | Not sure if the order makes any difference |
| 16:40.34 | systemdlete | nemo: USB *cable* ? |
| 16:40.57 | systemdlete | I'm pretty sure I'm using the one that came with the laptop, but they all sort of look similar. |
| 16:42.50 | nemo | systemdlete: as for what's going on w/ it, I guess you could just wipe your whole home folder... but if XFCE4 itself is corrupt |
| 16:42.53 | nemo | wonder if some desktops conflict |
| 16:43.32 | nemo | could try manually launching XFCE4 desktop manager I guess |
| 16:43.36 | nemo | see if fires up |
| 16:43.40 | nemo | (after logging in, from vt) |
| 16:47.03 | systemdlete | oh it fires up, but my whole config is missing (panels etc) |
| 16:47.12 | systemdlete | I am doing a forced reinstall of xfce |
| 16:47.37 | systemdlete | why wipe the home folder -- that part seems OK |
| 16:47.52 | systemdlete | again, restored the whole thing from backup just yesterday |
| 16:48.34 | systemdlete | I think lxqt might be the culprit, actually. I noticed that the fonts looked shameful, I was able to change some of the fonts, but not some of them. |
| 16:48.51 | systemdlete | probably needed some additional font packages for lxqt/lxde not sure |
| 16:49.35 | systemdlete | I connected to ethernet and I'm re-installing xfce. Mate still works, but the power options seem to have issues on all of these desktops. |
| 16:49.39 | systemdlete | (not good) |
| 16:59.49 | systemdlete | ascii release does no longer have a release file |
| 17:00.04 | systemdlete | is there some big repo op going on now? |
| 17:09.24 | nemo | systemdlete: well you said it was a new system ⺠|
| 17:09.32 | nemo | systemdlete: so figured your home might be pretty blank still |
| 17:09.46 | nemo | systemdlete: anyway one thing we've learned is using the GPU helps a bit with your power consumption |
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| 17:09.59 | nemo | systemdlete: also we've established if your system uses a pathetic 10 watts of power, it will not charge |
| 17:10.06 | nemo | which seems stupid-easy to do with moderate browsing |
| 17:10.16 | systemdlete | 10W? |
| 17:10.19 | nemo | hm? |
| 17:10.23 | nemo | V*A? |
| 17:10.25 | systemdlete | oh 5V * 2A |
| 17:10.29 | systemdlete | right |
| 17:10.35 | systemdlete | HS was a long time ago |
| 17:10.57 | nemo | systemdlete: which is what is so nuts |
| 17:10.58 | systemdlete | "using the GPU" -- ?? |
| 17:11.00 | nemo | my laptop does 91W |
| 17:11.06 | nemo | my desktop can provide 350W |
| 17:11.13 | nemo | 10W is more like... a mobile phone or tablet |
| 17:11.19 | systemdlete | well, nemo. This is not a real laptop per se. |
| 17:11.24 | nemo | apparently ð |
| 17:11.30 | systemdlete | It is a tablet which has a keyboard dock |
| 17:11.39 | systemdlete | so think: "tablet" |
| 17:11.40 | nemo | systemdlete: bet it has heat dissipation issues too |
| 17:11.48 | systemdlete | eh, haven't noticed anything |
| 17:12.01 | nemo | well you probably haven't stressed it |
| 17:12.11 | nemo | systemdlete: try charging it to 100% and testing out like some webgl demo |
| 17:12.16 | systemdlete | I'll keep it in mind though, thanks. |
| 17:12.38 | systemdlete | OK. So we'll meet back here some time next week. |
| 17:12.41 | systemdlete | :D |
| 17:12.42 | nemo | systemdlete: when you enabled hardware compositing on your desktop and layers acceleration in firefox (and possibly webrender in firefox if you enabled it) you were offloading more work onto the GPU. your power consumption apparently fell because you started charging |
| 17:13.10 | systemdlete | well, the charging is back to being very slow, and this is running MATE |
| 17:13.20 | systemdlete | after a reboot! |
| 17:13.35 | systemdlete | also, I carefully checked all the physical connections |
| 17:14.07 | systemdlete | (made sure brick was completely seated on power strip, connecctors in slots, etc) |
| 17:14.31 | systemdlete | it's flakey. Verrrrry flakey. |
| 17:14.47 | systemdlete | which makes this so hard to deduce where the point(s) of failure might be |
| 17:15.34 | systemdlete | nemo: On my desktop, running in a Vbox VM, would compton make any sense? |
| 17:15.54 | systemdlete | the GPU is onboard the CPU afaik |
| 17:16.00 | systemdlete | or it is on the MB |
| 17:16.28 | systemdlete | I'm thinking of this one VM that is really slow |
| 17:16.38 | systemdlete | even if I am ONLY running ff |
| 17:16.49 | systemdlete | (this is a different topic now, yes) |
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| 17:33.59 | systemdlete | can't get wifi anymore, network connections flake on me (even though other machines on my network have no problem, just the laptop |
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| 17:35.44 | nemo | systemdlete: it really depends a lot on your system whether GPU acceleration of desktop is a win or not |
| 17:36.17 | nemo | systemdlete: for most of my systems at home it is not a win. My theory is that it is because I am vRAM constrained or the GPU's handling of vRAM is buggy, since the accelerated desktops seem to cause corruption/glitching |
| 17:36.32 | nemo | systemdlete: for your «laptop» it seems your main issue is power consumption |
| 17:36.35 | systemdlete | I've noticed that. |
| 17:36.53 | nemo | as for wifi completely failing. maybe check dmesg. maybe a hardware kill accidentally got enabled |
| 17:37.03 | nemo | alternatively if you lost it after update, maybe check for loss of firmware |
| 17:37.11 | systemdlete | I'm shutting the laptop down, then I'll try a "cold" start -- btw, the laptop is surprisingly cool, even after being on for a day |
| 17:37.18 | nemo | also, consider testing as a different user, like "guest" in case you completely screwed up your main user |
| 17:37.30 | systemdlete | GOOD IDEA! |
| 17:37.31 | nemo | systemdlete: well no shock it is cool if it uses <10W of power just to survive |
| 17:37.55 | nemo | systemdlete: I'd recheck that statement after 100% battery and using something real like a GL game or webgl ⺠|
| 17:38.06 | systemdlete | For browsing and email, and hexchat, no issues I've ever noticed. |
| 17:38.15 | systemdlete | ok |
| 17:39.28 | nemo | systemdlete: well those are all pretty lightweight activies, apart from "browsing" which can be light or heavy depending on noscript and the insanity of the remote site |
| 17:39.38 | nemo | systemdlete: do youtube videos play at reasonable framerate? |
| 17:40.04 | systemdlete | I think so -- I don't often watch videos on it. I'd rather watch them on the TV!! |
| 17:40.20 | systemdlete | for one thing, the sound is louder |
| 17:40.34 | nemo | eh. I'm sure there'd be a time you'd want to do it. airport or whatever |
| 17:40.41 | systemdlete | sure. |
| 17:41.01 | systemdlete | you are right, of course. to the best of my recollection, videos seem to play fine. |
| 17:44.27 | nemo | systemdlete: fair nuff. but might discover it running out of juice |
| 17:44.58 | nemo | systemdlete: WRT running hot, my thought is, if the system is designed w/ an itsy bitsy 10W PSU, the assumptions the system are designed around are probably 10W |
| 17:45.20 | nemo | systemdlete: if you do an activity (watching a 2h video) that consumes 20 or 30W, even that piddling amount might possibly overwhelm its tiny brain |
| 17:45.35 | nemo | and btw, if you are streaming netflix, the BS DRM VM is probably gonna suck up even more |
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| 18:18.07 | Magnus_K | Hi all, could anyone tell me if the best way to set up flashplayer in devuan is to get the tar from adobe and copy the relevant file? Works fine but I prefer to have as much as possible updated through apt. |
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| 18:19.17 | nemo | Magnus_K: hm. that's probably the correct way to do it nowdays. |
| 18:19.25 | nemo | flash is aggressively deprecated and unmaintained upstream |
| 18:19.33 | nemo | I would hope debian has removed it |
| 18:19.46 | nemo | it's a security hole waiting to happen. even browser support has gone away |
| 18:19.47 | Magnus_K | yeah, I suspected as much |
| 18:20.00 | nemo | security exploit must say. the holes are not in dispute |
| 18:20.02 | Magnus_K | Thanks for the reply |
| 18:20.16 | nemo | gl. I could search the repos but hardly seems worth the effort :) |
| 18:20.19 | nemo | better to maintain it yourself |
| 18:20.38 | nemo | Magnus_K: btw I'd recommend using a separate firefox profile for that so you don't use it accidentally |
| 18:21.08 | Magnus_K | good idea, thanks |
| 18:21.20 | furrywolf | does firefox >56 or whatever even have the ability to load it? |
| 18:22.01 | Magnus_K | yeah, I believe so |
| 18:22.15 | furrywolf | googling says it was disabled by default in 52 |
| 18:23.11 | furrywolf | (netscape-compatible plugin support was disabled) |
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| 18:24.47 | Magnus_K | well, I can run it, have to allow each seperate occassion but that's how I prefer it |
| 18:25.03 | furrywolf | looks like the -esr releases might still be compiled with it enabled |
| 18:26.10 | Magnus_K | Well, I seldom use it but if I do need too I want to be able to. |
| 18:26.24 | furrywolf | I haven't seen flash installed in like 20 years. |
| 18:26.26 | furrywolf | it's dead. |
| 18:26.59 | Magnus_K | 20 years sound like a gross exageration |
| 18:27.20 | furrywolf | and back when it might have been relevant, it was a buggy, crash, insecure, evil piece of shit. :P |
| 18:27.24 | furrywolf | crashy |
| 18:27.59 | Magnus_K | yeah, you don't need to convince me, I just had a short question, not here to preach the gospel of flash, ok? |
| 18:28.32 | furrywolf | sometimes it's necessary to stage an intervention. |
| 18:29.08 | Magnus_K | sometimes it's necessary to not take everything too seriously |
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| 18:41.02 | systemdlete | where can I find older ISO's of devuan? Specifically, the 2.0 ISO? |
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| 18:42.44 | onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/archive/ |
| 18:42.50 | systemdlete | thanks |
| 18:43.04 | debdog | https://files.devuan.org/archive/devuan_ascii/ ,too |
| 18:43.19 | onefang | Or the archive directory of any of the other ISO mirrors. |
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| 19:06.55 | systemdlete | "archive" of course |
| 19:06.59 | systemdlete | missed that |
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| 19:39.20 | systemdlete | theoretically, Ascii ISO 2.0 + ALL THE UPDATES == Ascii ISO 2.1 (other than additional packages installed) |
| 19:39.26 | systemdlete | is that correct? |
| 19:39.56 | systemdlete | I'm talking about the "core" of the system: Kernel, system libraries, utilities set, etc. |
| 19:40.16 | systemdlete | obviously, users might install other items as well, or even remove some perhaps. |
| 19:40.58 | systemdlete | My real question is: Has anyone actually tested this? I'm suspicious that these 2 are not exactly equivalent. |
| 19:41.13 | systemdlete | again, referring to core pieces of the system, including configuration files |
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| 19:45.07 | systemdlete | realizes he may not be "putting" the question precisely; he's just trying to get a general sense |
| 19:46.44 | jonadab | If you apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade, you can turn your existing ascii system into the new one. |
| 19:47.07 | jonadab | The advantage of the new .iso is fewer updates need to be installed when installing a new system. |
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| 19:53.54 | systemdlete | OK, so essentially, then, the answer to my query is "yes" (with some caveats of course) |
| 19:53.57 | systemdlete | thanks |
| 19:54.09 | eyalroz | Hello devuaners, |
| 19:54.24 | systemdlete | My real question is, are we CERTAIN that they are (mostly) equivalent? |
| 19:54.29 | eyalroz | I'd like to draw your attention to this issue with cinnamon, nm-applet and the wicd applet: |
| 19:54.29 | eyalroz | https://unix.stackexchange.com/q/555630/34868 |
| 19:54.32 | systemdlete | I mean, has it been tested? |
| 19:55.15 | systemdlete | Reason I am asking is I am thinking of re-installing my laptop, which is experiencing a lot of weirdness, esp. for the time approximately since the upgrade. |
| 19:55.26 | eyalroz | And to ask whether something more distro-integrated could be possible. |
| 19:56.23 | systemdlete | eyalroz: Can't you remove it from the startup options? |
| 19:56.36 | systemdlete | Or do I misunderstand the question? |
| 19:56.37 | eyalroz | systemdlete: No, it's baked in. |
| 19:56.50 | eyalroz | There are ugly(ish) workarounds. |
| 19:56.57 | systemdlete | So cinnamon has no "system startup" configuration UI? |
| 19:57.26 | systemdlete | xfce, mate, lxde, lxqt all have it. That's how I am able to configure, say, a clipboard to start at login |
| 19:57.28 | eyalroz | It has, but it doesn't let you not-load nm-applet |
| 19:57.52 | systemdlete | ooh. yecch. |
| 20:01.21 | eyalroz | upstream GitHub issue: https://github.com/linuxmint/cinnamon/issues/3318 |
| 20:02.16 | systemdlete | nemo: Running memtester from a boot stick now. Want: 4096G |
| 20:02.39 | systemdlete | Got: 3444M |
| 20:02.52 | systemdlete | s/4096G/4096M/ |
| 20:03.13 | systemdlete | is this definitely a memory fail? |
| 20:03.34 | systemdlete | running as root, afaik |
| 20:17.44 | systemdlete | eyalroz: In my cinnamon environment I see a menu with controls for add,edit,delete at the bottom. Are you saying those don't work? |
| 20:18.32 | systemdlete | I'm talking about the startup UI |
| 20:18.47 | eyalroz | systemdlete: It's not in the startup UI AFAICR. |
| 20:18.59 | systemdlete | oh, I see. |
| 20:19.03 | nemo | systemdlete: odds are it's just the rest is reserved by your graphics card |
| 20:19.06 | eyalroz | Yup, not there. |
| 20:19.15 | nemo | systemdlete: on wimpy crappy systems the card does not have its own vram |
| 20:20.40 | systemdlete | [nemo continually deprecates systemdlete's little tablet/laptop and makes him cry, regretting ever buying the stupid thing already...] |
| 20:20.48 | nemo | systemdlete: if you want to test more of it you can probably go into BIOS settings and set vram as low as possible |
| 20:21.02 | nemo | systemdlete: heee I'm very bitter about it as you can see ð |
| 20:21.11 | systemdlete | I don't know if the EFI has that option, but I can check. |
| 20:21.25 | systemdlete | Yes, I DO indeed see how bitter you are! |
| 20:21.32 | nemo | systemdlete: I already do not care for the tablet/laptop combo 'cause it's what pushed the windows 10 transformation into an unusable UI that I curse every time I'm on a windows machine |
| 20:21.36 | nemo | systemdlete: and the ruining of gnome3 |
| 20:21.40 | systemdlete | And it's not even your own buyer's remorse! |
| 20:21.51 | nemo | no. but it broke UIs I actually had to use |
| 20:21.57 | nemo | damn tabletification |
| 20:22.14 | systemdlete | I'm a old desktop man myself, nemo. |
| 20:22.33 | systemdlete | Much more comfortable to sit with and especically type on |
| 20:22.43 | systemdlete | *especially |
| 20:22.54 | nemo | yeeeep and naturally gotta have a good commandline ð |
| 20:23.05 | nemo | converse with system using actual sentences. just like this |
| 20:23.12 | systemdlete | well, I've got bash on the laptop |
| 20:23.36 | systemdlete | are you using a voice software thingy? |
| 20:23.42 | nemo | no |
| 20:23.51 | systemdlete | oh, wow. You type faster than I do then. |
| 20:23.54 | nemo | probably |
| 20:24.07 | systemdlete | I type 61 WPM, which is considerably fast. |
| 20:24.16 | nemo | hm... how'd you test yourself? |
| 20:24.31 | systemdlete | I have been tested by 2 companies as part of the hiring process. |
| 20:24.45 | systemdlete | I think they were pretty impressed. |
| 20:24.46 | nemo | ah |
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| 20:24.53 | tuxd3v | hello all, |
| 20:24.55 | systemdlete | but anyway, we are OT here, so |
| 20:24.57 | nemo | I'm a coder myself, so I guess that's good typing practice |
| 20:25.01 | nemo | and too much time on IRC ð |
| 20:25.07 | systemdlete | (agreed!) |
| 20:25.20 | tuxd3v | when trying to Cross bootstrap in [armel] for beowulf |
| 20:25.33 | tuxd3v | I get when trying to install some packages: |
| 20:25.34 | tuxd3v | qemu: Unsupported syscall: 382 |
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| 20:27.45 | tuxd3v | its more than that.. I see now.. |
| 20:30.14 | nemo | systemdlete: https://www.typingtest.com/result.html?acc=98&nwpm=79&gwpm=80&ncpm=396&gcpm=401&dur=60&time=60&chksum=38821&unit=wpm&kh=998&td=null&err=1&hits=401 hm. missed something. doh |
| 20:30.30 | nemo | tries it again |
| 20:30.38 | systemdlete | holy f--- ! |
| 20:30.43 | tuxd3v | https://paste2.org/XkXcnm3C |
| 20:30.47 | systemdlete | 80WPM and only 1 typo |
| 20:31.44 | systemdlete | tuxd3v: I concede my erstwhile pride as self-styled typist extraordinaire, to you |
| 20:31.52 | nemo | https://www.typingtest.com/result.html?acc=100&nwpm=85&gwpm=85&ncpm=426&gcpm=426&dur=60&time=60&chksum=42613&unit=wpm&kh=998&td=null&err=0&hits=426 |
| 20:31.55 | nemo | better |
| 20:34.16 | nemo | always easier second time though. fewer surprises |
| 20:34.29 | systemdlete | 56WPM |
| 20:34.34 | nemo | systemdlete: on https://www.typingtest.com/test.html?minutes=1&textfile=astronauts.txt ? |
| 20:34.35 | systemdlete | But I was nervous. |
| 20:34.38 | nemo | that's the one I was using |
| 20:34.59 | systemdlete | same |
| 20:35.03 | systemdlete | you beat me |
| 20:35.07 | systemdlete | but good |
| 20:35.14 | systemdlete | and we are Waaaaaaaay Off topic |
| 20:35.30 | systemdlete | a certain go-linux will come and kick our butts shortly |
| 20:35.40 | nemo | haha |
| 20:35.43 | systemdlete | (go-linux without the dash) |
| 20:38.50 | tuxd3v | Seesm to be abug in glibc 2.25 |
| 20:38.58 | tuxd3v | with the clone() function |
| 20:39.19 | tuxd3v | qemu simply emulates that.. and it goes wrong.. |
| 20:39.42 | tuxd3v | commit: https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=commit;h=4b4d4056bb154603f36c6f8845757c1012758158 |
| 20:40.46 | nemo | huh. that's a really old commit |
| 20:41.00 | nemo | but then, I guess debian stable is pretty old too |
| 20:42.17 | tuxd3v | weird we ar at glibc 2.28-10 in Beowulf, and the problem continues.. |
| 20:43.08 | tuxd3v | I am on ascii and using ascii qemu version.. maybe Ineed to update the qemu packages too on ascii, and then try to Crossdebootstrap.. |
| 20:43.28 | nemo | tuxd3v: backports qemu? |
| 20:43.43 | systemdlete | btw, that concession of mine was for nemo, not you tuxd3v. (I'm tired; didn't sleep last night) |
| 20:44.30 | tuxd3v | nemo, probably I will checl ascii-backports :) |
| 20:44.36 | tuxd3v | thanksfor the sugestion ;) |
| 20:45.13 | nemo | lol. I've got no clue just FYI ð |
| 20:45.37 | nemo | if I was going to attempt arm builds, I'd probably just do it on the raspberry pi or pinebook |
| 20:47.05 | tuxd3v | heheh interestingly, this also afects MS Windoes services in linux: |
| 20:47.07 | tuxd3v | https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/1878 |
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| 20:50.09 | tuxd3v | nemo, I do them for the hardware I have |
| 20:50.12 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 20:50.20 | tuxd3v | several boards laying around :) |
| 20:50.36 | tuxd3v | this id actually for rpi1 |
| 20:50.39 | tuxd3v | armel |
| 20:50.42 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 20:51.26 | tuxd3v | ho you mean natively? |
| 20:51.51 | nemo | yes |
| 20:51.57 | nemo | I've never enjoyed cross-compiles |
| 20:52.03 | nemo | whenever possible I do native hardware |
| 20:52.04 | tuxd3v | not sure the amount of Ram ~230MB is suficient of rpi1 |
| 20:52.06 | nemo | it's always a mess |
| 20:52.06 | tuxd3v | :( |
| 20:52.17 | nemo | hm |
| 20:52.22 | nemo | thought my RPI1 had a lot more than that |
| 20:52.29 | nemo | I guess it depends on your patience and what you are building |
| 20:52.33 | tuxd3v | there are 2 versions |
| 20:52.43 | tuxd3v | I own the earlier adopter version |
| 20:52.50 | tuxd3v | whichis 256MB |
| 20:52.54 | tuxd3v | v1.0 |
| 20:53.03 | tuxd3v | later they releaseda v1.2 |
| 20:53.04 | nemo | ok. yeah, I was in that group. guess I just forgot |
| 20:53.10 | nemo | I have it lying around here somewhere |
| 20:53.10 | tuxd3v | with 512MB |
| 20:53.16 | nemo | ditched it for the rpi3 |
| 20:53.55 | tuxd3v | nemo hehe, rpi3 is a diferent thing :) |
| 20:54.36 | nemo | tuxd3v: yeah, well I'm not doing packaging |
| 20:54.49 | nemo | it was always just a toy |
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| 20:54.56 | tuxd3v | but with that, you can do :) |
| 20:54.57 | nemo | computer w/ handy dandy pins |
| 20:55.09 | tuxd3v | I also do with rpi1, but small ones |
| 20:55.11 | nemo | tuxd3v: are you sure it wouldn't work on rpi1? I built hedgewars on it |
| 20:55.16 | tuxd3v | like fluxbox |
| 20:55.28 | nemo | tuxd3v: it even ran at 15fps at 640x480 in software rendering only which was all that was possible at the time |
| 20:55.56 | nemo | tuxd3v: only some things don't build on it, like browsers. |
| 20:56.01 | tuxd3v | the problem is mybuilder to Crossdebootstrap :( |
| 20:56.12 | tuxd3v | it was coded that way.. |
| 20:56.29 | tuxd3v | but yeah, I can only bootstrap and see what hapens ;) |
| 20:56.42 | tuxd3v | to -> do |
| 21:00.27 | tuxd3v | here is the fix for glibc: https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=commit;h=fe05e1cb6d64dba6172249c79526f1e9af8f2bfd |
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| 22:03.13 | UsL | is ascii 2.1 still considered stretch or is it semi buster? I need to add a non devuan ppa. |
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| 22:14.56 | Akuli | UsL, i need to go now, but there is /etc/debian_version |
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| 22:16.34 | UsL | yeah, I know. But since 2.1 has a lot of changes I figured I'd ask |
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| 22:30.42 | golinux_ | UsL: It's still ascii. Even bigger changes in beowulf |
| 22:31.13 | UsL | right. Thanks, golinux_ |
| 22:31.44 | golinux_ | beowulf will be 3.0 |
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