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| 00:22.22 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 03:01.53 | vvande | Why do I keep getting a popup that says there is an new upgrade? It's for a new kernel. |
| 03:02.10 | vvande | Doing an apt-get update does not bring it in howerver. |
| 03:10.25 | chillfan | vvande: what are you seeing exactly? |
| 03:10.58 | chillfan | vvande: if there are upgrades showing as available in apt then you should do apt-get update then apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 03:11.58 | chillfan | the first part only updates the caches with package information, the second part upgrades the actual packages |
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| 03:27.34 | vvande | just got back |
| 03:27.52 | vvande | thanks chillfan - I'll reboot and get the message straight. |
| 03:31.19 | vvande | it says "there is one update - linux system something 64 |
| 03:31.42 | vvande | it comes up really quickly and goes again before I can read it :( |
| 03:31.54 | chillfan | during the system boot process? |
| 03:32.26 | vvande | oh, it's in the notivications "There is one new update - linux-image-amd64" |
| 03:32.37 | vvande | no about a minute or two after |
| 03:32.49 | vvande | that's in KDE |
| 03:33.25 | chillfan | Aha, so it's notifiying you of updates.. I'm not sure what the front end is there, but if you access any terminal and change to root with su you can update that from there |
| 03:34.14 | chillfan | which can be done with apt-get update followed by apt-get dist-upgrade as root |
| 03:34.25 | vvande | seems I couldn't but as we speak, I clicked a more info type link |
| 03:34.39 | vvande | and there's a process that's doing it now |
| 03:35.04 | vvande | I was just confused that the usual apt-get update/upgrade as rood didn't do that file as well |
| 03:35.26 | chillfan | I see. I'm not familiar with the frontends for desktops there, which is why I asked what's telling you this. |
| 03:35.38 | vvande | I understand. |
| 03:35.47 | vvande | I always update from the command line too. |
| 03:35.52 | chillfan | normally you should type dist-ugrade instead which will upgrade more packages than the upgrade command |
| 03:36.03 | chillfan | upgrade* |
| 03:36.07 | vvande | that will be it then |
| 03:36.22 | vvande | but why is there a dist upgrade in this case? |
| 03:36.30 | vvande | it's a fresh Devuan install |
| 03:37.35 | chillfan | if you install completely by network it will get all of that, but usually the base system is installed from the CD/DVD |
| 03:38.20 | vvande | ok, I guess I assumed it would get the updated install since it was online during install |
| 03:38.29 | vvande | I understand. |
| 03:38.35 | vvande | Thanks for the info chillfan. |
| 03:39.11 | chillfan | not a problem, did you choose to use a mirror during install? out of curiosity.. I don't use the installer for much myself so I'm not always clear on it |
| 03:40.37 | vvande | I'm in Canada, so it's best to just chose generic USA, since there's nothing close in Canda (being an east west country) |
| 03:40.48 | vvande | the best connections will be north south. :) |
| 03:44.53 | chillfan | you should usually upgrade the kernel immediately if an update appears for it btw, as they're more likely to update for serious problems |
| 03:45.10 | vvande | sounds reasonable |
| 03:45.41 | vvande | The kernel doesn't update without using "dist-upgrade"? |
| 03:47.18 | chillfan | not the kernel specifically, a regular upgrade will not install 'new' packages |
| 03:47.30 | chillfan | and certain other pieces |
| 03:47.53 | chillfan | it's like a soft upgrade, a dist-upgrade will upgrade the lot including any new packages that are needed to achieve that |
| 03:47.58 | vvande | ok |
| 03:49.02 | chillfan | in general, always run dist-ugprade. When you look at what it pulls in, you can decide not to go ahead and run an upgrade instead if you need that |
| 03:49.20 | vvande | thanks :) |
| 03:49.40 | chillfan | are you coming over from another distro? |
| 03:49.49 | vvande | not really |
| 03:50.11 | vvande | I've switched all the Debian boxes to Devuan when it came out. |
| 03:50.22 | vvande | I run FreeBSD on my desktop machine though. |
| 03:50.41 | chillfan | ah ok, not a bad OS they have there |
| 03:50.45 | vvande | In this case it's a laptop for travelling - so a bit of an anomoly in my world. |
| 03:51.22 | vvande | yeah, I like FreeBSD because it's stable - stable in the sence that new ideas don't get implemented every week for some political reason. |
| 03:51.46 | vvande | Devuan has actually given me a bit of faith in Linux again. lol |
| 03:52.33 | chillfan | Yeah, I agree somewhat.. they have a better OS on the technical level for those reasons imho, but linux for freedom support and customization |
| 03:52.41 | chillfan | freedom, support* |
| 03:52.54 | vvande | sure |
| 03:53.43 | vvande | though this little goaround I've been having here is not a good example |
| 03:53.50 | vvande | this channel is stellar |
| 03:54.14 | vvande | but go to the kde channel and I'll get heavily trolled for using old stuff from a week ago :) |
| 03:54.55 | vvande | and all the Ubuntu experts out there with conflicting and irrelevant opinions are a nuisance |
| 03:54.57 | vvande | but you |
| 03:55.19 | vvande | re right, if one know who to hang with then the Linux support is stellar. |
| 03:57.59 | chillfan | we're pretty friendly here is the main thing I think, we're all users of this stuff really |
| 03:58.22 | vvande | I think it's more than that. |
| 03:58.37 | vvande | There seems to be a maturity thing going on. :) |
| 03:59.52 | chillfan | I'd agree with that, we seem to have gotten over the systemd thing relatively quickly, I'm not convinced everyone else has yet.. but that's just my view, could be wrong |
| 04:00.38 | vvande | you know, the bottom line to me is that people should use whatever they want and not have to be called to account for it |
| 04:00.43 | vvande | systemd or no systemd |
| 04:01.36 | chillfan | yeah, I will never tell people not to use systemd directly or ask them why, or show contempt for them.. their computer, their rules |
| 04:01.47 | vvande | yep |
| 04:02.42 | chillfan | I'm happy to let people criticize sysvinit etc too, so long as my use case is still allowed |
| 04:27.04 | vvande | Is it possible that the problem with (seemingly) polkit in KDE network mangment is due to removing systemd? |
| 04:27.35 | vvande | I'm guessing that most developers are not using KDE and as such the polkit permissions could be now well checked. |
| 04:28.50 | vvande | s/now/not |
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| 04:51.39 | vvande | in any case this laptop install will clearly not be able to connect to different wireless networks while away from home |
| 04:52.30 | chillfan | Whys that? |
| 04:53.08 | vvande | I've been on it for 3 days now. Network-manager simply will not allow a user to control the network interface. |
| 04:53.49 | vvande | I even uninstalled wicd just to see if that was making a conflict. |
| 04:54.28 | vvande | The network interfaces are easily controlled as root, but the issue is in KDE. |
| 04:55.04 | vvande | the relevant polkit file for network-manager already has the correct groups - as does the user |
| 04:55.13 | chillfan | well.. let's see if we can tick this off.. is the wifi switch enabled, light on.. checked bios settings to change it? |
| 04:55.35 | vvande | yep |
| 04:55.46 | vvande | all done and checked many times :) |
| 04:55.59 | vvande | it's on wireless right now as a matter of fact |
| 04:56.09 | vvande | no problem with basic networking functionality |
| 04:56.54 | chillfan | is it an ath9k chip? |
| 04:56.58 | vvande | However, click on the network connectin in NM and it won't let the user turn it off. |
| 04:57.33 | vvande | not sure what chip it is |
| 04:58.20 | chillfan | chances are you're missing the firmware for it, or it's softlocked.. try rfkill list to see if your device is there |
| 04:59.08 | chillfan | firmware is usually available in firmware-linux-free or if you're unlucky firmware-linux-nonfree or firmware-linux-iwlwifi or something like that |
| 04:59.27 | vvande | you did read that it goes on the network just fine, right? |
| 04:59.35 | vvande | ethernet and wireless |
| 04:59.52 | vvande | the problem is a user can't control it from the GUI |
| 05:00.03 | chillfan | oh sorry.. it's working so far, I missed that |
| 05:00.09 | vvande | yes |
| 05:00.19 | vvande | it's a KDE or network-manager permissions issue |
| 05:00.26 | vvande | hence my interest in polkit |
| 05:00.36 | chillfan | are you in the netdev group? |
| 05:00.45 | vvande | yep and also plugdev |
| 05:00.59 | vvande | and those are in the network-manager polkit file as well |
| 05:01.04 | chillfan | dbus started? |
| 05:01.13 | vvande | good point :) |
| 05:01.20 | vvande | how do I check or start it? |
| 05:01.35 | chillfan | service dbus restart |
| 05:01.36 | chillfan | as root |
| 05:01.51 | vvande | done |
| 05:02.26 | vvande | interesting |
| 05:02.51 | chillfan | usually wants dbus started, and netdev group.. I'm not sure if plugdev is needed or not |
| 05:02.56 | vvande | now I clicked on the nm logo and then "connect" and it says "failed to activate" |
| 05:03.11 | vvande | yes, I'd guess netdev too |
| 05:03.27 | chillfan | did you log your user out then back in after adding the groups? |
| 05:03.54 | chillfan | that's the only thing I can think of there, I don't usually go with the network manager style things |
| 05:05.04 | vvande | yes |
| 05:05.20 | chillfan | and also wants the service started, network-manager service |
| 05:05.40 | chillfan | and probably: ifupdown wpasupplicant and wireless-tools package |
| 05:05.56 | vvande | I understand about the "network manger style" sentiment. I don't usually either, but setting this up for somebody who expects to click on connection and enter password - like most people do. :) |
| 05:06.33 | vvande | I'm going to reboot in this case. .... two secs |
| 05:06.42 | chillfan | yeah I get that, it's much easier to set things up for yourself than others |
| 05:07.06 | vvande | :) |
| 05:07.09 | vvande | it's back up now |
| 05:07.35 | vvande | and an intresting thing, the konsole preferences don't save either :( ... could be related. |
| 05:07.43 | vvande | check network now |
| 05:08.32 | vvande | yep, the one network comes up automatically |
| 05:08.54 | vvande | but I can't shut it down from the GUI, or open another connection (I've got another one at home) |
| 05:09.17 | vvande | I think it's a KDE problem. |
| 05:11.00 | chillfan | ah, then you might be right to look at polkit.. you might need the elogind backend |
| 05:11.18 | vvande | interesting, I saw that word in my googling |
| 05:11.27 | vvande | googles elogind |
| 05:11.52 | chillfan | libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind .. I'm not completely sure. It's a fork of systemd that lets it's session management work without the rest of systemd |
| 05:12.28 | chillfan | I would look in that general area, but I don't know much about these yet |
| 05:13.07 | vvande | ok, thanks |
| 05:13.18 | vvande | I'm grateful for any suggestions. :) |
| 05:13.41 | vvande | It seems to me that there is a bug here somewhere. This is a new install. |
| 05:14.05 | chillfan | I think both gnome and kde will want elogind, that's the reason it's included in ascii |
| 05:14.29 | chillfan | yeah, if you manage to find what's at fault please let us know |
| 05:14.56 | chillfan | bugs.devuan.org would be the best way, or mention it on the mailing list |
| 05:15.03 | vvande | for sure |
| 05:15.46 | vvande | I've got Devuan on 3 stationary machines here and haven't had a problem. Very happy with it. |
| 05:15.57 | vvande | this is just a roving laptop issue |
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| 07:21.30 | edbarx | ASCII: XFCE --- Restart, Shutdown, Suspend, Hibernate still unavailable. Is there a solution? |
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| 09:59.02 | antenagora | @edbarx same here ! |
| 09:59.50 | KatolaZ | antenagora: are you using ascii or jessie? |
| 10:01.08 | antenagora | jessie, i was not able to fix that. maybe is policykit related ? |
| 10:01.17 | KatolaZ | antenagora: quite strange |
| 10:01.23 | KatolaZ | you should have consolekit enabled |
| 10:01.31 | KatolaZ | it is known to work on jessie |
| 10:01.42 | KatolaZ | unless you are getting packages from non-devuan repos |
| 10:01.47 | KatolaZ | and you got some update |
| 10:02.13 | antenagora | just a second, i will check the policykit version |
| 10:02.26 | KatolaZ | (it works also on ascii, but there is a glitch that needs manual intervention and will be solved asap) |
| 10:02.54 | antenagora | policykit-1 0.105-9+devuan1 |
| 10:03.07 | antenagora | policykit-1-gnome 0.105-2 |
| 10:03.31 | antenagora | which glitch are you talking about ? do you have some reference ? |
| 10:04.10 | KatolaZ | antenagora: it does not affect jessie, only ascii |
| 10:04.31 | KatolaZ | antenagora: do you have consolekit installed? |
| 10:05.16 | antenagora | KatolaZ, consolekit 0.4.6-5 |
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| 10:11.14 | vvande | why would we need consolekit? |
| 10:11.47 | vvande | or rather, why would it not be there? |
| 10:13.16 | KatolaZ | vvande: because consolekit is in charge of session management, I guess... |
| 10:14.38 | vvande | yeah, so why would it not be there? |
| 10:15.42 | vvande | I'm just curious, because I'm exploring some problems here. That's probably not one of them, but I"m looking at everything. :) |
| 10:17.56 | KatolaZ | vvande: are you on ascii or jessie? |
| 10:17.58 | antenagora | vvande, ConsoleKit System Restart and Stop console-kit-daemon provides D-Bus interfaces that will restart or stop the system. When console-kit-daemon receives a D-Bus request to restart the system, it will run the /usr/lib/ConsoleKit/scripts/ck-system-restart script if the user has privilege to do this operation. |
| 10:22.15 | vvande | KatolaZ, I'm on jessie |
| 10:22.45 | vvande | antenagora, thanks |
| 10:24.29 | vvande | so ConsoleKit also has to do with permissions I guess |
| 10:27.11 | antenagora | KatolaZ, fixed here: i had to enable under preferences > session of xfce : start gnome services at boot and authentication agent under automatic boot |
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| 10:51.11 | vvande | Why do I get a popup sometimes that says "Authentication is required to refresh the system sources" ? |
| 10:51.33 | vvande | The PackageKit Project |
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| 11:13.03 | vvande | a quick google tells me it's not malicious, and will probably go away |
| 11:13.52 | vvande | Unknown popups asking for root password is sure to get my attention though. :) |
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| 16:45.26 | d9867eb | hi |
| 16:45.57 | d9867eb | hi, is there anyone on mastdon here? |
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| 20:27.53 | aitor | hi |
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| 20:31.57 | aitor | i'm working in the relationship of the dev managers |
| 20:32.05 | aitor | *on |
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| 20:33.19 | drawkula | parship.devuan.org ? |
| 20:33.22 | aitor | i uploaded a virtual repository including empty packages of udev | eudev | vdev |
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| 20:34.27 | aitor | udev in this case is the transitional package for eudev (both downgraded from ascii to jessie) |
| 20:34.35 | drawkula | aaaah... those dev managers... I thought of developers... ;-D |
| 20:34.54 | aitor | add to your repos the following line: |
| 20:35.00 | drawkula | was a funny idea for some seconds... |
| 20:35.17 | aitor | deb http://www.gnuinos.org/virtual/ jessie main |
| 20:35.23 | aitor | and try: |
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| 20:35.28 | aitor | apt-get update |
| 20:35.33 | aitor | apt-get install udev |
| 20:35.40 | aitor | apt-get install eudev |
| 20:35.45 | aitor | apt-get install vdev |
| 20:35.53 | aitor | it's working for me |
| 20:37.42 | aitor | both libeudev1 and libvdev1 have a common file /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/virtual-libudev.so.1 |
| 20:38.26 | aitor | installing vdev, the packages of eudev are removed and vice versa |
| 20:40.03 | aitor | you can download the empty packages; any improvements? |
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| 20:40.15 | aitor | time to dinner, be back later |
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