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| 00:18.45 | *** topic/#debian is Debian 10 Buster released! /msg dpkg buster; /msg dpkg stretch->buster; /msg dpkg apt suite changed | Oldstable Stretch: /msg dpkg stretch ; /msg dpkg 9.9 ; 9.9 needs dist-upgrade | Jessie: jessie-{updates,backports} removed, /msg dpkg jessie-lts | NO FLOOD: /msg dpkg paste | offtopic: #debian-offtopic | testing/unstable: #debian-next @ irc.oftc.net| chanlogs: /msg dpkg irclog |
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| 00:42.56 | ZaZaGX | I am in love with Debian |
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| 00:46.24 | semmi_pi | ahoi debian and -ers :)= |
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| 00:47.49 | semmi_pi | wonder ~what~ gets this debian-planetsystem so stable over all that years |
| 00:48.39 | semmi_pi | sry .. i mean -> s o l a r - system ~* |
| 00:49.32 | ZaZaGX | no idea |
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| 00:50.52 | semmi_pi | into beginning i tryed (a short time -> red-hat and suse) others ... |
| 00:51.16 | semmi_pi | but since that -> only debian (sometimes stable ... sometimes ~~) |
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| 00:52.27 | semmi_pi | i mean: consistente behavior (especially with apt and tude later) |
| 00:53.07 | semmi_pi | did give me a stable behavior also all over the time |
| 00:53.21 | semmi_pi | (^_^) |
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| 00:55.01 | semmi_pi | ( any thats [maybe?] not the time to thank for ... here and now :;) |
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| 00:55.34 | semmi_pi | http://www.maitag.de/semmi/blender/lyapunov/example_images/blechrad_next_08_applyed.blend.png |
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| 00:55.47 | krukudilo | how to change dns server? |
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| 00:57.05 | Bushmills | apt purge old-server; apt install new-server |
| 00:57.06 | semmi_pi | do you use that network-manager ? |
| 00:57.22 | Oksana | Generic question: is 'ps -Af something' supposed to work? |
| 00:57.59 | Oksana | Because I get process ID list syntax error |
| 00:58.04 | semmi_pi | ps xa |
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| 00:58.15 | semmi_pi | i only use ,m9 |
| 00:58.26 | dognosewhiskers | I have installed Debian in a VMware VM, and when I'm at the default desktop, I'm trying to install the "VMware Tools" to get a sane resolution and performance. It's telling me to "open a terminal", but when I go to the menu and search for "Terminal" and click the terminal icon, nothing happens. Same thing if I launch the "Files" GUI application and go to the VMware disc and right-click and press "Open in Terminal". Nothing happens. It just |
| 00:58.26 | dognosewhiskers | freezes for a while and then nothing. |
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| 00:59.56 | Oksana | semmi_pi: Is it supposed to work like ps xa something? Should something be enclosed in quotes or not? Because by now I get 'TTY could not be found' |
| 01:00.17 | semmi_pi | depends onto "shell" |
| 01:00.27 | semmi_pi | i only use x-term |
| 01:00.35 | semmi_pi | (near to ansi) |
| 01:01.17 | dognosewhiskers | Sometimes I wonder if they serve me some sort of fake.iso every time I try Linux, because there's always something really fundamental broken which nobody else ever seems to experience... |
| 01:02.09 | semmi_pi | old shell with ansi-colors is enought for me |
| 01:02.17 | CaptainDusty | dognosewhiskers: Is there a 'gnome-terminal' option? Or try alt + f2 and launch `gnome-terminal` |
| 01:02.52 | karlpinc | dognosewhiskers: Do you know about this: |
| 01:02.58 | karlpinc | !firmware images |
| 01:02.58 | dpkg | Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current/amd64/iso-cd/ |
| 01:03.13 | CaptainDusty | I guess it depends on your desktop environment, btw. |
| 01:03.38 | karlpinc | dognosewhiskers: That can help alot when it comes to flaky problems. (Although nothing to do with opening a terminal.) |
| 01:03.54 | semmi_pi | dpkg: -l |
| 01:03.55 | dpkg | Files in package semmi_pi-pr0n: /srv/semmi_pi-pr0n/semmi_pi.jpg |
| 01:04.26 | karlpinc | dognosewhiskers: I've noticed than when dns is entirely broken my desktop (xfce4) won't open a terminal. Could be related. |
| 01:04.44 | semmi_pi | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:04.44 | semmi_pi | [h[x]- @@ |
| 01:04.44 | semmi_pi | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:04.44 | semmi_pi | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:04.44 | semmi_pi | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:05.06 | CaptainDusty | karlpinc: Legit? |
| 01:05.17 | CaptainDusty | Ugh. |
| 01:05.17 | karlpinc | CaptainDusty: ? |
| 01:06.04 | CaptainDusty | karlpinc: That you can't open terminal with broken dns. |
| 01:06.13 | karlpinc | CaptainDusty: Yes. |
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| 01:06.58 | semmi | oh.. why i get kicked from this socket only for sending ascii-sequence ? |
| 01:06.58 | karlpinc | CaptainDusty: Probably the dns timeout (20 sec) is longer than some other timeout, so the resolver never gets to "localhost" (or something) in /etc/hosts. That's my random guess. |
| 01:07.12 | karlpinc | !tell semmi about paste |
| 01:07.50 | karlpinc | semmi: We don't want the channel plogged up. Especially not with stuff unrelated to support. |
| 01:08.10 | karlpinc | dognosewhiskers: I can still work in a vt. |
| 01:08.12 | karlpinc | !vt |
| 01:08.12 | dpkg | rumour has it, vt is Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>. |
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| 01:09.47 | Bushmills | hosts is by default consulted before name servers are queried. with localhost in hosts there's, unless order has changed, no involvement of network |
| 01:10.26 | CaptainDusty | The idea of a terminal failing to open due to DNS issues seems a bit more of a fundamental design issue than just a current problem :P |
| 01:10.42 | CaptainDusty | Probably systemd's fault. (jk jk, or am I..) |
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| 01:11.34 | semmi | system 5 daemon or the new one ? |
| 01:12.28 | semmi | i only know to install ( all 5 years if hardware is broken ) ... |
| 01:12.31 | Oksana | semmi_pi: In the end, ps aux | grep something is more reliable than just, say, ps -C something. Just, tiresome... |
| 01:12.38 | semmi | with rc.1 2 3 ... :_) |
| 01:12.43 | Bushmills | there must be some additional config aspect than just "launching a terminal", that alone doesn't need network or dns |
| 01:12.44 | karlpinc | Bushmills: Yeah. my nsswitch.conf confirms your lookup ordering. So there's something else going on. It is probably related to my using separate boxes for X client and server. |
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| 01:13.29 | semmi | i mean to edit the configs manual with vi (also for networking) |
| 01:13.41 | karlpinc | So that then (might) have nothing to do with dognosewhiskers' problem. Although it might, since there could be some virtual network magic involved because he's using vmware. Dunno. |
| 01:14.01 | semmi | but times changed (i am also use thet networkmanager sometimes) |
| 01:14.06 | CaptainDusty | But again; thid distracts from a design problem. |
| 01:14.12 | Oksana | TO be fair, ps aux and ps -ef and ps -Af is all the same thing. |
| 01:15.05 | semmi | i am happy if i have not to much scroll up after "ps" ;) |
| 01:15.23 | semmi | to see what daemons are running |
| 01:15.46 | Bushmills | consider to have a look at htop |
| 01:15.47 | semmi | and what "kind" of .) |
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| 01:21.13 | semmi | CaptainDusty: you could pipe it throught awk ;) |
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| 01:22.55 | muneytree | https://youtu.be/y2Rpg0rKUjw?t=3565 |
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| 01:24.40 | semmi | https://youtu.be/orAa4CHv_bw?t=107 |
| 01:25.25 | karlpinc | What's with the youtube links? You'll get banned for spam. |
| 01:25.51 | semmi | please bann me |
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| 01:27.57 | karlpinc | !ops semmi would like to be banned for spam |
| 01:27.58 | dpkg | Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: karlpinc complains about a problem (see above) |
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| 01:28.27 | rant | Bushmills: no, its setup right, the routes are reversed |
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| 01:29.25 | Bushmills | rant, so output of ifconfig shows for the tun interface behind the local ip address also the peer ip address? |
| 01:30.08 | rant | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:30.34 | Bushmills | looks good. then my guess is firewall - you didn't allow traffic incoming for tun0 |
| 01:31.21 | rant | I dont have any firewall |
| 01:31.28 | Bushmills | Out of ideas then |
| 01:32.27 | karlpinc | rant: Don't know what your problem is, but I often use tcpdump on both ends and watch what's actually happening and find that helps. |
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| 01:34.03 | semmi | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:36.18 | semmi | is context about ip-table-rules problem or config/installing kind of ;) ? [or smalltalk] |
| 01:37.18 | semmi | ...smalltalk 8-]~ |
| 01:37.23 | semmi | ? |
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| 01:37.53 | semmi | (or man/help/problemsolving?) |
| 01:38.33 | SerajewelKS | semmi: i have no idea what you're talking about. if english is not your first language, consider joining the debian channel for users who share your language. |
| 01:38.40 | semmi | i mean here into chat-channel (^_^) ... i am new here (normally i want to get into haxe + blender channnel ... |
| 01:39.29 | semmi | ... but something did drives me into here [may i get problem with my window-manager ...] |
| 01:39.40 | SerajewelKS | if you have a question about debian, please ask. if you don't speak english well, join the channel for your language. otherwise, other chat is off-topic. |
| 01:39.45 | karlpinc | semmi: If you want to talk in general you can go to #debian-offtopic. |
| 01:39.53 | karlpinc | semmi: This channel is for debian support. |
| 01:40.05 | semmi | oh.. i didnt knowed (sry |
| 01:40.06 | semmi | ) |
| 01:40.15 | semmi | *waves to all |
| 01:40.34 | semmi | see ya muchacho..s |
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| 01:42.59 | annadane | and now the mods are pinged for no reason :P |
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| 01:46.34 | karlpinc | feels so adult. Having been a part of handling the issue. ;-) |
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| 02:37.24 | rant | yeah idk.. the damn vpn is connecting, the logs show traffic, the routing tables show routes between 192.168.4.1 and 192.168.4.2.. but one can't ping the other and neither is running any firewalling software, and just for the hell of it I tried iptables on both ends, nothing.. |
| 02:39.40 | rant | this is a bit ridiculous :D I got both machines sitting here side by side on the same network and can't get them to talk over openvpn |
| 02:40.19 | rant | I can access the client outside the vpn over the lan just fine |
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| 02:55.16 | swift110 | hey |
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| 03:03.50 | sakty | wow |
| 03:03.54 | sakty | many peole here |
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| 03:05.34 | sakty | hello |
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| 03:10.05 | sakty | test |
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| 03:10.34 | sakty | hi preview |
| 03:11.48 | preview | hi |
| 03:12.02 | sakty | do u use debian? |
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| 03:12.24 | sakty | hi nexgen |
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| 03:21.34 | sakty | test |
| 03:21.39 | sakty | lol |
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| 03:32.28 | swift110 | hey sakty |
| 03:32.46 | sakty | hey swift110 |
| 03:32.53 | sakty | are u on telegram? |
| 03:33.13 | sakty | i have ever seen that username |
| 03:33.20 | swift110 | yes i am |
| 03:33.46 | sakty | ah |
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| 04:54.55 | dognosewhiskers | Why, when I right-click a .sh file, is there no "Run" command? |
| 04:55.09 | dognosewhiskers | The only thing that happens when I double-click it is it opens a text editor with it. |
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| 04:55.46 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: which desktop environment and file manager? |
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| 04:56.00 | sansakerta | hey |
| 04:56.29 | sakty | anyone use debian? |
| 04:56.40 | dognosewhiskers | alkisg: Whatever is the default. |
| 04:56.47 | dognosewhiskers | And "Files". |
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| 04:56.51 | alkisg | "1499 users in #debian room"; I guess some here do... :) |
| 04:57.10 | sakty | i dont think so |
| 04:57.29 | warsoul | sakty read channel name :) |
| 04:57.38 | sakty | most people use arch |
| 04:57.41 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: is the file executable, does it have the +x attribute? |
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| 04:58.11 | dognosewhiskers | It's a .sh, so of course it's executable? |
| 04:58.22 | dognosewhiskers | It's specifically the VMware Tools installation script. |
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| 04:58.24 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: no, linux doesn't care about extensions at all |
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| 04:58.37 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: right click properties and make it executable |
| 04:59.06 | sakty | oh this is debian room |
| 04:59.16 | dognosewhiskers | "You are not the owner, so you can not change these permissions." it says. |
| 04:59.25 | sakty | where is linux room |
| 04:59.33 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: did you download it using sudo? where is the file, in which path? |
| 05:00.05 | dognosewhiskers | It's in a virtual CD-ROM. |
| 05:00.20 | sakty | use flash disk |
| 05:00.29 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: then it's read only, so it's easier if you open a terminal to run it |
| 05:00.31 | dognosewhiskers | The path appears to be concealed from the user. |
| 05:00.43 | dognosewhiskers | alkisg: Yeah, but if I try to open a Terminal, literally nothing happens. |
| 05:00.47 | alkisg | open a terminal, and type: bash /path/to/script.sh |
| 05:00.58 | dognosewhiskers | sakty: What do you mean by "use"? It's simply on a virtual CD-ROM. Not my choice. |
| 05:01.09 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: you mean that you can't open terminals in your installation? sounds broken then? |
| 05:01.13 | dognosewhiskers | That alternative terminal X-Term does open, though. |
| 05:01.21 | dognosewhiskers | alkisg: Sure sounds broken... |
| 05:01.21 | sakty | dognosewhiskers oh |
| 05:01.38 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: eh, I'd start with fixing it first, before continuing with installing more things :) |
| 05:02.09 | dognosewhiskers | Fixing what? I didn't code this OS. |
| 05:02.16 | dognosewhiskers | I just downloaded the latest stable ISO. |
| 05:02.40 | alkisg | dognosewhiskers: well, all users are supposed to be able to open terminals; it's something broken in your specific case, not the os in general |
| 05:03.20 | alkisg | In any case, if you can't make it via the terminal, copy the iso contents to your home dir, and then make it executable and run it |
| 05:03.41 | alkisg | As I said, the terminal way would be: bash /path/to/installer.sh |
| 05:05.05 | dognosewhiskers | It just gives more and more bizarre errors whatever I type, including your command in the CD-ROM dir. |
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| 05:05.26 | alkisg | You can put all the terminal contents in pastebin |
| 05:05.27 | alkisg | !paste |
| 05:05.27 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
| 05:05.32 | dognosewhiskers | I can't see what could possibly be unique about my ISO which I downloaded from the official site. |
| 05:05.37 | sakty | !paste test |
| 05:05.38 | dpkg | test: put your output on http://paste.debian.net/ so we can see it. DO NOT paste into the channel. |
| 05:06.07 | sakty | interesting |
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| 05:15.52 | annadane | i see this turned into https://www.xkcd.com/349/ |
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| 05:17.13 | kirk781 | annadane, lol |
| 05:17.14 | sakty | lol wat |
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| 05:20.21 | sakty | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:20.47 | kirk781 | Hexchat here |
| 05:21.07 | sakty | its bad when select text |
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| 05:28.10 | mlshew | karlpinc: About my Bind9 dnssec issue hours ago: Thanks. There is no bug report on this problem. I'll do more testing before opening one. (I haven't tested to see if the problem exists in stretch, for one.) |
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| 05:28.34 | mlshew | karlpinc: About my Bind9 dnssec issue hours ago: Thanks. There is no bug report on this problem. I'll do more testing before opening one. (I haven't tested to see if the problem exists in stretch, for one.) |
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| 05:30.23 | mlshew | Jhutchins_wk: Oops. I meant to address my last/second statement above to you instead of karlpinc. |
| 05:30.51 | annadane | and twice. and twice. |
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| 05:32.15 | mlshew | (Apologies. Editing error on top of editing error.) |
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| 05:36.45 | dognosewhiskers | My computer doesn't power off, my Debian in a VM doesn't work, everything is broken and shitty and I fucking hate all of this. And the problems just keep piling on. They never stop. They never get resolved. And eventually, it's like a digital mountain of problems weighing you down... |
| 05:37.09 | dognosewhiskers | I have about 9 billion programming questions which are impossible to get answered as well... |
| 05:37.28 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Could you please elaborate? |
| 05:37.45 | Oksana | I sometimes have "Doesn't hibernate" or "Doesn't shut down" problems, as well |
| 05:37.57 | Oksana | And I run CentOS7 in a VM |
| 05:38.38 | sakty | do u guys know where can i find free vps lifetime |
| 05:38.45 | dognosewhiskers | Oksana: After Windows has shut down and the monitor has lost a signal, it still has the power button LED lit, and some fan is still spinning. Started happening in the last week with no changes in OS/software/hardware. |
| 05:39.01 | kirk781 | Doesn't a newer version of Cent OS exists? |
| 05:39.07 | dognosewhiskers | I think it's breaking down... But the last thing I want to do is deal with buying and getting and installing another compromised junkbox. |
| 05:39.34 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Compromised, as in, Microsoft Windows? |
| 05:39.54 | dognosewhiskers | Intel/AMD backdoors. |
| 05:40.10 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: What about ARM? |
| 05:40.29 | dognosewhiskers | What about it? Doesn't run anything. |
| 05:40.57 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: On my laptop, I have a tiny LCD panel which lets me see power, battery, hard drive access, WiFi. With this, I can see clearly whether laptop shut down or not. But I understand that may be trickier with desktops. |
| 05:41.07 | Oksana | ARM is neither Intel nor AMD? |
| 05:41.13 | dognosewhiskers | "The Intel Management Engine always runs as long as the motherboard is receiving power, even when the computer is turned off." <-- Makes my skin crawl to think that nobody is protesting this, just going along with it. |
| 05:41.18 | Oksana | Does ARM have backdoors? |
| 05:41.56 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: I use 10yo laptop, it probably doesn't have Intel Management Engine, no idea. |
| 05:42.03 | dognosewhiskers | If they sell it to people in stores, it has backdoors. |
| 05:42.43 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Regarding fan, see https://www.dell.com/community/Laptops-General-Read-Only/Fan-still-works-after-shut-down-Windows-10/td-p/4650438 ? |
| 05:43.02 | dognosewhiskers | How long is that laptop gonna last? And it's quite naive to think that they didn't build in all kinds of nastiness in 2009... |
| 05:43.34 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Or you can just disable intel management engine interface altogether, in device manager. |
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| 05:44.17 | dognosewhiskers | Stupid joke. |
| 05:44.30 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: I have pre-ordered Dragonbox Pyra, it's a fairly open-source open-hardware device with ARM processor, so should be better than standard Intel/AMD things. |
| 05:44.36 | dognosewhiskers | It's hardware. Not some Windows "driver". |
| 05:44.49 | dognosewhiskers | It's a completely separate computer sitting on top of your CPU, with its own everything. |
| 05:45.03 | dognosewhiskers | And somehow, nobody is worried about this whatsoever. |
| 05:45.08 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Well, unless you dive into electronics and desolder something, disabling the hardware is the best you can do? |
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| 05:45.28 | dognosewhiskers | It cannot be disabled. That's the whole point. |
| 05:45.32 | Oksana | disabling the driver and hence ceasing to use this hardware. |
| 05:45.41 | dognosewhiskers | You must be joking... |
| 05:46.24 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Cannot be disabled, how so? Have you tried? go to "intel management engine interface" right click then click properties, click driver tab, then click disable, click ok, you dont need the intel management driver or what ever it does |
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| 05:46.43 | dognosewhiskers | Are you acting stupid? |
| 05:46.53 | dognosewhiskers | Do you understand the concept of hardware versus software? |
| 05:46.56 | dognosewhiskers | It's a hardware thing. |
| 05:47.15 | dognosewhiskers | The whole point is that it cannot be disabled. They force it on you with every computer. |
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| 05:47.27 | dognosewhiskers | AMD has their own version, so you can't "buy from AMD instead". |
| 05:48.07 | Oksana | Hmm... Strictly speaking, none of the known methods disables the ME completely, since it is required for booting the main CPU. All known methods merely make the ME go into abnormal states soon after boot, in which it seems not to have any working functionality. The ME is still physically connected to the current and its microprocessor is continuing to execute code. |
| 05:48.15 | Oksana | What about ARM? |
| 05:48.58 | Oksana | In 2016, the me_cleaner project found that the ME's integrity verification is broken. The ME is supposed to detect that it has been tampered with, and, if this is the case, shut down the PC forcibly after every 30 minutes after system start. This prevents a compromised system from running undetected, yet allows the owner to fix the issue by flashing a valid version of the ME firmware during the grace period. As the project found out, b |
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| 05:49.59 | dognosewhiskers | Are you a bot? |
| 05:50.03 | Oksana | Also, as Intel has confirmed, the ME contains a switch to enable government authorities such as the NSA to make the ME go into High-Assurance Platform (HAP) mode after boot. This mode disables most of ME's functions. Most machines sold on the retail market can be tricked into activating the switch. Manipulation of the HAP bit was quickly incorporated into the me_cleaner project |
| 05:50.16 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: No, I am not a bot, just a fairly persistent human. |
| 05:50.23 | dognosewhiskers | Try finding ARM-based desktop computers which run (real) Windows. |
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| 05:56.05 | jadax | does kernel 4.19 support AMD 3600 + x570 based motherboard? |
| 05:56.09 | jadax | I'm having some freezes |
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| 05:58.01 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: Run Windows... Ouch... What about Mac computers with ARM processors? |
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| 06:03.04 | jadax | is there a debian out there with kernel 5.x ? |
| 06:03.18 | jadax | I'm on AMD 3600 and apparently it works better with newest kernel |
| 06:03.39 | jadax | (my OS had frozen today few times) |
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| 06:07.13 | ZaZaGX | hi jadaz |
| 06:07.20 | ZaZaGX | jadax |
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| 06:09.21 | ZaZaGX | have you tired debian sid? |
| 06:09.29 | ZaZaGX | tried |
| 06:09.45 | jadax | I'm on buster now |
| 06:09.52 | jadax | kernel 4.19 |
| 06:09.56 | ZaZaGX | thats running kernel 5.2 |
| 06:10.03 | jadax | is sid somehow stable? |
| 06:10.10 | ZaZaGX | no idea |
| 06:10.11 | ZaZaGX | lol |
| 06:10.27 | jadax | lol |
| 06:10.35 | jadax | funny |
| 06:10.48 | ZaZaGX | all i know is that it has the lastest kernel and you can upgrade it every 6 hours |
| 06:11.06 | ZaZaGX | err update |
| 06:11.46 | sakty | hi jadax |
| 06:11.58 | sakty | ec2-18-223-250-193.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com whats your password |
| 06:11.59 | Oksana | dognosewhiskers: See https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=24-Core-ARM-mATX-Desktop https://www.windows-arm.com/index.php/1057-windows-weekly-496-the-arms-have-it |
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| 06:12.35 | EoflaOE | jadax: SID is Still In Development |
| 06:12.56 | jadax | ask Bezos |
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| 06:17.56 | spectre | howdy |
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| 06:30.33 | jadax | what if I just install kernel 5.x next to my 4.19 on debian stable? |
| 06:30.37 | jadax | and boot either |
| 06:30.50 | alkisg | jadax: sure, you can get 5.2 from testing and use either |
| 06:31.36 | jadax | do I just apt-get install kernel-5x ? |
| 06:31.49 | alkisg | No, google about how you can selectively install things from testing |
| 06:32.01 | jadax | ok, ok |
| 06:32.03 | alkisg | It involves adding sources list and setting priority |
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| 06:40.19 | spectre | f |
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| 07:09.59 | jadax | does anybody here run buster (kernel 4.19) on AMD series 3 CPU? |
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| 07:20.29 | spectre | i do |
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| 07:21.27 | spectre | shit i dibt read the whole thing |
| 07:21.45 | spectre | not sure what series |
| 07:22.49 | spectre | i know its amd tho |
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| 07:25.41 | spectre | idk if i can be helpful tho i just finished installing it 4 the first time |
| 07:26.48 | jadax | spectre any problems? |
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| 07:26.55 | jadax | I started experiencing OS freezes today |
| 07:27.05 | jadax | trying to understand if my kernel could be part of the problem |
| 07:27.12 | jadax | ambient temps are higher today than usual |
| 07:31.13 | spectre | no freezes yet |
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| 07:32.51 | jadax | are you on x570 chipset? |
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| 07:39.53 | spectre | im not sure i dont know a lot about hardware stuff yet, its a dell inspirion series if that helps? |
| 07:40.37 | spectre | i found the specs but under chipset theres a list of stuff |
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| 07:42.53 | jadax | there are 3 AMD chipsets - B450, x470 and x570 |
| 07:42.58 | jadax | the last one is significantly warmer |
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| 07:52.10 | mad_monk | Hello All. I just moved from Debian 9 (stretch) to Debian 10 (buster). |
| 07:52.19 | mad_monk | Currently I am running Debian 10 (minimal install - without GUI) on VMWare Workstation (12 and 15). Everything works fine and during the bootup, the interface picks up IP address from the VMWare DHCP Server. |
| 07:52.27 | mad_monk | However, after some time, the auto renewal of IP is not happening - which means the machine looses it's IP after some time (failed to obtain IP address). |
| 07:52.31 | mad_monk | If I explicitly run the dhclient, the interface immediately picks up an IP address. |
| 07:52.35 | mad_monk | This problem is only with Debian 10 (and not with Debian 9). |
| 07:52.37 | mad_monk | Any indicators / pointers on how to troubleshoot this issue? |
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| 07:56.40 | kasun | helo, pleasure to meet you all |
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| 08:22.10 | pasiz | mad_monk: with wireshark you could watch traffic and filter dhcp request to see is the problem on client or server side |
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| 08:23.38 | pasiz | mad_monk: also logs in client and server side could provide you information, but from real traffic you see what's exactly whats happening on network. |
| 08:23.48 | mad_monk | @pasiz - thanks - is there a way to find out / debug the auto-renew process of dhcp client |
| 08:23.52 | mad_monk | ok |
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| 09:27.52 | hans_ | `sleep infinity` is undocumented (in `man sleep` at least) |
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| 09:31.16 | alkisg | ...and not always available: busybox sleep infinity => sleep: invalid number 'infinity' |
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| 09:34.30 | hans_ | alkisg, debian ships with gnu sleep, not busybox, last i checked |
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| 09:34.50 | alkisg | hans_: debian initramfs has busybox, not gnu sleep |
| 09:34.57 | alkisg | So it depends on where your code runs ;) |
| 09:36.34 | alkisg | has been writing code that runs in the initramfs for the last 3 months, and is heavily biased :P |
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| 09:37.10 | boser | ich wünsche allen ein frohes, friedliches Feiertag. Maria Himmelfahrt |
| 09:37.16 | hans_ | alkisg, `man dd` documents `status=progress`, but busybox dd does not support `status=progress` - why is `sleep infinity` not supposed to be documented "because busybox does not support it" when `dd status=progress` is supposed to be documented *despite* busybox dd not supporting it? it's inconsistent :o |
| 09:37.48 | alkisg | hans_: ah, I wasn't saying "not supposed to document it"; I was saying "sleep infinity won't work outside of gnu sleep" |
| 09:38.00 | alkisg | I.e. not very portable as code |
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| 09:40.03 | hans_ | OpenBSD dd does not support status=progress either, but is `status=progress` supported outside of GNU dd? |
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| 09:42.01 | hans_ | "we don't document `sleep infinity` because it's not portable" sounds like a bad argument if we document `dd status=progress` despite it not being portable (if it isn't? idk) |
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| 10:21.53 | zalt | are there disadvantages to mount binds?, i'm thinking of moving /var and /home to a seperate partition on an hdd, and keep the operating system on an ssd (it's a vm) |
| 10:22.49 | zalt | or i could just go to a store now and buy a new ssd |
| 10:23.07 | zalt | 90% of his budget this month was spent on hardware |
| 10:23.30 | Bushmills | buying an SSD doesn't exclude possibility of bind mounts |
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| 10:23.52 | Bushmills | but it offers additional advantages which can't be delivered by mount |
| 10:24.55 | zalt | currently the entire thing is on an hdd, which is wrong |
| 10:25.05 | zalt | mount binds cost $0 |
| 10:26.08 | hop | i'm also confused… what do those two things have to do with each other? |
| 10:26.38 | hop | also, why not move /var and /home to their own partitions, LVs, whatever and use ordinary mounts? |
| 10:26.47 | zalt | they both achieve the effect of making the operating system faster |
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| 10:27.07 | zalt | hmm, because that seems weird to me |
| 10:27.08 | hop | zalt: so does dropping the machine out of a window in the 20th floor… |
| 10:27.29 | hop | zalt: weird?? how? why? |
| 10:27.54 | zalt | i don't know, i don't like too many moving parts |
| 10:28.05 | hop | o.O |
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| 10:28.13 | hop | how is a bind mount less moving or less of a part? |
| 10:29.07 | zalt | umm, resizing |
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| 10:30.31 | hop | not following |
| 10:31.23 | zalt | hop, well, it's simpler for me to deal with a single partition, i think having 3+ partitions is overkill, especially when it is a virtual machine |
| 10:31.56 | zalt | i know people have partitions for /boot, /var, /home, and swap, and probably more |
| 10:32.18 | hop | yeah, and all those people do it because they are masochists |
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| 10:33.28 | zalt | are you saying there are advantages to using multiple partitions |
| 10:33.34 | Bushmills | on machines with many disk accesses it can make a lot of sense to distribute head seek times over several devices |
| 10:35.28 | hop | zalt: even if you go with bind mounts, you are dealing with two partitions… |
| 10:35.33 | hop | i.e. "multiple" |
| 10:36.30 | hop | i'm just saying your reasoning is nonsense. do the bind mounts or not, that's not what makes your os faster |
| 10:37.17 | zalt | i didn't suggest that bind mounts are going to make it faster or slower |
| 10:37.40 | hop | 12:26 < zalt> they both achieve the effect of making the operating system faster |
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| 10:38.33 | Bushmills | not even mentioning IO from and to seperate disks through multiple interfaces rather than just a single one. |
| 10:38.41 | hop | i'd even wager that so much of your system is in ram, it won't be affected by disk writes to /var in the first place |
| 10:38.56 | hop | or vice versa |
| 10:39.01 | zalt | "both" is referring to (option1: buying and ssd and moving everything to it, option2: doing bind mounts / or partitions) |
| 10:39.26 | hop | and we were talking about the orthogonality of bind mounts and ssds |
| 10:39.53 | hop | even mounts have nothing to do with performance, unless what Bushmills says holds for your machine |
| 10:40.09 | zalt | Well, maybe i didn't explain my situation well enough |
| 10:40.33 | hop | hence our confusion? |
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| 10:40.51 | zalt | I DO have an SSD, but the file system is too big to fit in it, so what i was thinking about is, move those huge directories /var and /home to an hhd, so that everything else fits in the SSD :) |
| 10:41.33 | zalt | hopes that he started to make sense |
| 10:41.56 | Bushmills | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:43.28 | hop | what actually is "the rest"? |
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| 10:43.41 | Bushmills | with var there may be the problem that bind mounting requires system already booted, while /var contents are already needed while system still boots. |
| 10:45.54 | Bushmills | mounting var conventionally from another disk, which in one of its dirs contains home should do, though |
| 10:45.55 | zalt | hop, Step 1: create a parittion on the hdd, Step 2: cp -rp /home /mnt/new_partition Step 3: delete /home, step 4: bind mount /mnt/new_partition/home -> /home, step 5: move the entire file of the virtual machine that has become smaller to my SSD |
| 10:46.46 | zalt | Bushmills, hmm, i didn't consider that, this might be a reason to use regular mounts then |
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| 10:48.30 | bolovanos | hithere, I have clonezilled image of my VPS which I have tryed to revive using clonezilla liveCD into local virtualbox. Disk was created (without any visible problems), but rebooting ends up with "Kernel panic - not syncing: No init found. Try passing init= option to kernel...". This happens even in recovery mode. Any idea? |
| 10:48.48 | Bushmills | I can't say for sure whether bind mounting would fail - still it's something to be careful about. |
| 10:50.30 | zalt | i'm running *cought cough* windows, and 90% of my time is spent in linux, i'm considering swapping how things work, so that i run linux natively, and run windows in Qemu / maybe with gpu passthrough |
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| 10:51.16 | Bushmills | googles that funny word "windows" |
| 10:51.37 | zalt | but i don't know how gpu passthrough works, anyone has experience with that?, are there reasons against this? :D |
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| 10:52.04 | ZaZaGX | hi |
| 10:52.35 | zalt | Bushmills, it is indeed funny, debian even in an hdd runs smoother than windows |
| 10:53.46 | hop | no duh |
| 10:54.16 | zalt | i don't think there'd be any problem in running windows in vm CPU-wise, my CPU is good enough for this, but i don't know what the situation is like with the GPU |
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| 10:58.51 | hop | what's the meaning of "*" and "!" after the queue id in the output of postqueue? |
| 10:59.23 | hop | zalt: this is used as a desktop? |
| 10:59.43 | zalt | yes. |
| 11:00.06 | hop | is there a specific reason you are worried about /var? because it shouldn't be relevant on a desktop |
| 11:00.20 | hop | size-wise, at least |
| 11:00.30 | humpled | my /var is bind mounted |
| 11:00.36 | Bushmills | hop, active queues vs. hold queue |
| 11:01.05 | Bushmills | ! means, delivery attempts have stopped |
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| 11:01.21 | zalt | hop, well, i do have a couple of databases |
| 11:01.23 | hop | Bushmills: thanks! where can i find such info? it isn't in postqueue(1) |
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| 11:01.48 | Bushmills | Should be in the docs |
| 11:02.04 | Bushmills | Can't say where exactly |
| 11:02.12 | hop | Bushmills: like, where can i find the titanic? should be in the ocean! ;) |
| 11:02.14 | zalt | but you're right, other than that, it's not huge enough to consider it. |
| 11:02.38 | hop | zalt: performance of those dbs will be better with enough ram anyway |
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| 11:03.52 | hop | i don't know… /home on a spindle might hurt, if there's a juicy ssd laying around right there |
| 11:04.44 | hop | i personally would consider adding a data partition for files that aren't io critical instead of splitting off all of /home |
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| 11:05.21 | hop | means you can also boot and work, even while the huge data partition is fsck'ing |
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| 11:06.50 | hop | Bushmills: wtf. it is right there in the man page o.O |
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| 11:07.04 | hop | i have no idea how i missed that |
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| 11:14.24 | hop | .oO(man, working with the postfix queue is barbaric) |
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| 11:43.52 | Bushmills | hop, i suppose most what you're doing is deleting dead messages, going through postsuper with them. a script really helps there |
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| 12:11.33 | moviuro | Hi all, I'm seeding some Linux & BSD ISOs, including Debian: which versions should I keep seeding? Is 9.x.x still supported, now that 10.0.0 is out? |
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| 12:15.28 | dvs | moviuro, 9.0 will be fully supported until next July. |
| 12:15.47 | moviuro | okay, so I'll keep seeding those 9.9 ISOs, thanks |
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| 12:36.36 | vilhelm1 | hi :) |
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| 12:48.07 | filpAM | So.. I upgraded to debian 10 buster from debian 9.8 stretch midnight by 'apt full-upgrade', everything went smooth and succesfully. But I find something odd: when I booted first time with debian 10 buster, systemd suddenly started logging |
| 12:48.25 | filpAM | I find that odd because systemd was silent before |
| 12:48.35 | filpAM | I think something didn't go correctly |
| 12:49.02 | hop | Bushmills: "a script" is exactly what i was referring to :) |
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| 12:52.01 | dvs | !release notes |
| 12:52.01 | dpkg | The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ . See also <stretch->buster>, <buster install guide> |
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| 13:24.01 | [twisti] | i added a user, but no group with the same name was created. is that normal for debian ? |
| 13:24.27 | alkisg | How did you add the user, with which command or program? |
| 13:24.31 | greycat | If you used adduser, I would say that is an atypical result. If you used useradd, all bets are off, because that's a low-level tool and you are expected to manage it yourself. |
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| 13:24.56 | hop | it's configurable, see adduser(8) |
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| 13:25.57 | [twisti] | i added it through ansible, which created a group on all other machines, but not the debian machine. i wasnt sure if maybe not doing it was the thing to do on debian |
| 13:27.11 | alkisg | The default on debian is for users to have primary groups with the same name |
| 13:28.12 | [twisti] | thank you |
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| 13:36.28 | mad_monk | hello all - i am trying to troubleshoot a dhcp revnew issue with Debian 10 (buster) |
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| 13:36.48 | mad_monk | when the first time it is booting - it is picking up an IP address from the VMWare DHCP Server |
| 13:37.00 | mad_monk | after that, it is not renewing the IP automatically |
| 13:37.38 | mad_monk | I run tcpdump to check the traffic / packets - I do not see a DHCP request package generated by Debian 10 |
| 13:37.48 | mad_monk | Please advice how to troubleshoot this |
| 13:38.01 | mad_monk | Debian 9 is working without any error on the same VMware Workstation |
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| 14:12.12 | karlpinc | mad_monk: dhclient is running? |
| 14:12.23 | mad_monk | yes, |
| 14:12.27 | karlpinc | mad_monk: What do the logs say? |
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| 14:12.54 | mad_monk | i found a small workaround - it's working now |
| 14:13.01 | mad_monk | Edited this file - /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf |
| 14:13.10 | mad_monk | Uncomment the line |
| 14:13.11 | mad_monk | send dhcp-lease-time xxxxxxxx; |
| 14:13.17 | mad_monk | now it's working |
| 14:13.57 | mad_monk | The other thing that was working for me was to add the line "auto ens33" to "/etc/network/interfaces" (which i dont know is not related - but it was working) |
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| 14:15.31 | ws2k3 | i just did a fresh install of debian 10. is it correct useradd and adduser that i receive a command not found? |
| 14:15.42 | ws2k3 | i check with apt-get install adduser but it is installed.... |
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| 14:16.05 | greycat | !buster su |
| 14:16.05 | dpkg | The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable. See https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes for workarounds. |
| 14:16.25 | karlpinc | ws2k3: Those commands are normally only available to root, when $PATH is correctly set. See above. |
| 14:16.35 | filpAM | Xterm isn't showing unicode characters anymore after debian 10 upgrade, for example an accentuated a is showing '$'\303\201' |
| 14:16.52 | greycat | filpAM: sounds like your locale isn't set correctly in xterm's parent process. |
| 14:17.10 | filpAM | It probably overrode the previous setting |
| 14:17.26 | greycat | try "locale", and "locale -a" to see the choices, "dpkg-reconfigure locales" to get more choices, etc. |
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| 14:17.33 | greycat | !locales |
| 14:17.33 | dpkg | Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>. http://wiki.debian.org/Locale |
| 14:18.01 | wwilliam | Hello is there a way to tell -f a log but exclude output that conatins certain pattern? |
| 14:18.04 | ws2k3 | well this su and su - is going to a much made pitfall :P |
| 14:18.13 | wwilliam | tail -f * |
| 14:18.16 | filpAM | greycat: Ah yes, in the mid of debian 10 upgraded, xterm prompted asking for the encoding, I chose 'UTF8' 'cause that is what everyone uses. Btw, my keyboard layout is brazilian |
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| 14:18.35 | greycat | wwilliam: tail -F logfile | grep -vF 'certain pattern' |
| 14:18.43 | greycat | wwilliam: see also Bash FAQ #9 |
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| 14:18.49 | wwilliam | Thank you greycat |
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| 14:19.25 | filpAM | greycat: I can't even type latin characters anymore.. |
| 14:20.05 | greycat | filpAM: You're in the *middle* of an upgrade right now? Just finish the upgrade, and stop playing around with emojies. |
| 14:20.27 | filpAM | I finished yesterday the upgrade... |
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| 14:20.32 | filpAM | It already upgraded |
| 14:20.49 | greycat | What does "locale" give you? |
| 14:21.53 | filpAM | It is at #flood |
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| 14:23.08 | greycat | use http://paste.debian.net/ or something similar instead |
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| 14:24.33 | filpAM | http://paste.debian.net/1095868/ |
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| 14:25.20 | greycat | filpAM: those three error messages look important. Are you trying to use a locale that hasn't been generated? Have you tried dpkg-reconfigure locales yet? |
| 14:25.48 | filpAM | no. I will try now |
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| 14:30.37 | diogenes_ | Hello guys, how to see all the dependencies of a package using apt? |
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| 14:32.15 | karlpinc | diogenes_: I always use "aptitude show somepackage". You might have to break down and read the apt man page if you want to use apt. |
| 14:32.33 | Bushmills | why not use the "depends" subcommand? |
| 14:32.39 | diogenes_ | karlpinc, yes, thanks, i found apt has show too. |
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| 14:41.45 | karlpinc | Bushmills: Because I can't find documentation on it anywhere? |
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| 14:42.35 | greycat | SYNOPSIS apt-cache [-agipns] [-o=config_string] [-c=config_file] { ... | depends pkg [{=pkg_version_number | /target_release}]... | ... |
| 14:42.47 | greycat | Looks like documentation to me. |
| 14:43.00 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:43.00 | greycat | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:43.33 | greycat | It's not *good* documentation, but hey. |
| 14:43.48 | tarzeau | otherwise there's always the source code |
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| 14:44.40 | diogenes_ | btw, a theoretical question, if i install package A that depends on package B, then i install package C that also depends on package B, now i remove package C, will it remove dependency B? |
| 14:44.41 | Bushmills | apt has it too, but indeed, just as "clean", not described |
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| 14:45.16 | greycat | diogenes_: no, because A still depends on B |
| 14:45.18 | OerHeks | diogenes_, theoretical: no |
| 14:45.59 | diogenes_ | ok thanks because i though after removing, it will ask for apt autoremove and will remove the C dependency. |
| 14:45.59 | Bushmills | there's also apt-rdepends as seperate package - contrary to what name might suggest, it's not showing reverse dependencies. but recursive dependencies |
| 14:46.19 | greycat | well *that's* confusing |
| 14:46.33 | greycat | since "rdepends" does indeed mean "reverse depends" in all the other tools |
| 14:46.39 | Bushmills | indeed it is |
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| 14:48.46 | Bushmills | but in fact, apt-rdepends *can* show reverse deps too, with the appropriate command line option :) |
| 14:49.41 | filpAM | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:50.43 | filpAM | locale doesn't shows errors |
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| 15:13.52 | kreyren | dpkg: ping |
| 15:13.52 | dpkg | pong |
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| 15:15.39 | Hubbah | Hi all, hope someone can help me. Got an old jessie machine that i'm trying to upgrade to buster, but i get the error "the following signatures can't be verified because the public key is not available" regarding ftp.debian.org |
| 15:15.53 | greycat | You're going to stretch first, and then to buster, right? |
| 15:16.04 | Hubbah | sure |
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| 15:16.16 | Hubbah | i've got to solve this issue first tho. |
| 15:16.26 | greycat | so your issue is with *jessie* ? |
| 15:16.37 | greycat | !jessie sources.list |
| 15:16.38 | dpkg | A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has two lines: "deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie main" "deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main". Be sure to run «aptitude update» after editing sources.list. Also see <deb-src> <contrib> <non-free> <jessie/updates> <jessie-updates> <mirrors> and "man sources.list". |
| 15:17.35 | mrmaks | Hi all. If I click on "Computer" icon on MATE, I can see disk dirve and filesystem. disk drive not work and not mount. How i can remove disk drive from caja "Computer"? |
| 15:17.57 | Hubbah | thanks greycat <3 |
| 15:18.57 | mtn | mrmaks: that disk drive is where debian is installed and is already mounted, so you can not mount it again |
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| 15:24.31 | snackattack | I sometimes see debian users brag about their years-long uptime as a point of pride, but unattended-upgrades is telling me I need to reboot to complete a security upgrade. So is it a bad security practice to be having a years-long uptime? |
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| 15:25.46 | greycat | yes, it is |
| 15:26.04 | greycat | Kernel updates require a reboot to take effect. |
| 15:26.17 | greycat | Sometimes udev does as well, although that's less important on server-type boxes. |
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| 15:26.35 | greycat | err, not udev. dbus. that's what I meant. |
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| 15:29.38 | snackattack | greycat: I see, thanks for confirming that for me |
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| 15:30.22 | mrmaks | mtn: thanks, but how I can hide this drive from caja? |
| 15:30.45 | mtn | mrmaks: don't think you can. what purpose would that serve? |
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| 15:49.25 | joze | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ6hHIAkF4U |
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| 15:52.55 | joze | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2xw9TYqF5A |
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| 15:56.01 | OerHeks | joze, how are youtubes related to debian support? |
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| 16:01.23 | f8e3_ | how to restart deb9 sound driver? maybe alsa restart on thinkpad? |
| 16:01.42 | jim | wonder if jose is --> jozef (~jose@221.155.251.111) has joined #debian |
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| 16:02.35 | f8e3_ | pulseaudio -k && sudo alsa force-reload aye got it |
| 16:02.41 | greycat | jim: different local username and different hostmask |
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| 16:03.42 | jim | greycat, thought it was worth a shot |
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| 16:04.27 | meingbg | What's best practice for making a man page nowadays? Is it `troff -mdoc` format? |
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| 16:06.38 | Posterdati | hi |
| 16:06.56 | Posterdati | please help, is there any oolite like game in buster??? |
| 16:07.00 | Posterdati | thanks |
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| 16:10.00 | hop | Posterdati: um… oolite? |
| 16:10.08 | pasiz | Posterdati: oolite features linux version, why not run that |
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| 16:10.32 | hop | ah, that's from oldstable |
| 16:10.32 | Posterdati | it was on stretch, no more in buster |
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| 16:10.48 | greycat | ,info oolite --release stretch |
| 16:10.50 | judd | Package oolite (games, optional) in stretch/amd64: space sim game, inspired by Elite. Version: 1.84-1; Size: 1528.5k; Installed: 6850k; Homepage: http://www.oolite.org; Screenshot: https://screenshots.debian.net/package/oolite |
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| 16:12.15 | pasiz | Posterdati: you could download it from oolite website, or install from stretch or sid repo |
| 16:13.28 | greycat | judd says it's not in sid either |
| 16:13.45 | greycat | https://tracker.debian.org/news/944338/removed-184-2-from-unstable/ |
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| 16:14.07 | pasiz | greycat: ow, it's on debports in sid |
| 16:14.24 | greycat | and debports is ... some third-party site? |
| 16:14.35 | greycat | !debports |
| 16:14.35 | dpkg | it has been said that debports is a perl script to create a BSD-like ports structure on debian systems; get it at <http://www.the-labs.com/Linux/debports> |
| 16:15.03 | oskar- | Hello, where can I find Debian kernel configurations of current and historic versions? It seems as if http://kernel.alioth.debian.org/config/ is no longer available. |
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| 16:15.15 | pasiz | greycat: www.ports.debian.org |
| 16:15.28 | greycat | so dpkg's factoid about debports is out of date? |
| 16:15.49 | greycat | Hmm, yes. The URL says "404 forever" in gigantic text. |
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| 16:16.51 | greycat | dpkg, debports =~ s|http://www.the-labs.com/Linux/debports|https://www.ports.debian.org| |
| 16:16.51 | dpkg | You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, greycat |
| 16:16.51 | pasiz | greycat: opens fine in my firehoax |
| 16:17.06 | greycat | dpkg, debports =~ s#http://www.the-labs.com/Linux/debports#https://www.ports.debian.org# |
| 16:17.06 | dpkg | OK, greycat |
| 16:17.46 | greycat | pasiz: http://www.the-labs.com/Linux/debports opens fine for me too. And says "404 forever" and another sentence about how to contact the owner if you wish to buy the domain. |
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| 16:18.12 | pasiz | greycat: oh, i thought you mean ports.debian.org |
| 16:19.01 | greycat | This web site ... does not look like it has anything to do with games that have been removed from sid. |
| 16:19.14 | greycat | "The goal of this machine is to provide an infrastructure for unofficial architectures until they are integrated in the main Debian archive." |
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| 16:20.00 | greycat | pasiz: are you quite certain that you have the right URL? |
| 16:20.06 | Abdullah | greycat: These ports are like these ports I wrote, https://abdullah.today/ports |
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| 16:22.03 | pasiz | dunno, i have no point to argue for game that i don't need... |
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| 16:22.17 | greycat | dpkg, no, debports is <reply>debports was a perl script to create a BSD-like ports structure on Debian systems, formerly at <http://www.the-labs.com/Linux/debports> (defunct). |
| 16:22.18 | dpkg | greycat: okay |
| 16:22.32 | greycat | whatever you pointed me at, is not this. |
| 16:23.28 | Abdullah | okay |
| 16:23.51 | Posterdati | pasiz: I know I can download it, but I prefer it to be in the buster repository |
| 16:24.04 | greycat | well, it's not. |
| 16:25.05 | Posterdati | ok |
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| 16:27.56 | jhutchins_wk | https://www.ports.debian.org is ports to different architectures. |
| 16:28.17 | greycat | Yes, I figured that out after a minute or so. Clearly not related to whatever this "debports" thing was. |
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| 16:29.39 | jhutchins_wk | I believe it was an alternative package management system. |
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| 16:29.58 | bittin | Will miss Debian Day Stockholm tommorow, due to being sick, but might join on Saturday if i feel better then kinda boring as i helped planning since end of July :( |
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| 16:47.59 | ilikeyou | morning. having issue with debian-live iso creation. I have all the required packages, but when i "lb config" in the directory, i get error: ln: failed to create symbolic link 'config/hooks/normal/0020-create-mtab-symlink.hook.chroot': Function not implemented. this is causing chroot issues of course if i ignore and continue |
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| 16:49.10 | Bushmills | sounds like a filesystem which doesn't support symlinks, like fat |
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| 16:58.24 | npgm | I'm noticing that a particular library file is no longer available to ld by default - "libgfortran-dev-8". I can find the file in /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/8/libgfortran.so, but this path doesn't seem to be availble to ld by default. If I link this file to /usr/lib I can get things to work. This is apart of a build that I run on a daily basis off the debian:sid dockerfile. |
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| 16:59.09 | npgm | it had been working up until this morning. How can i identify the cause of this change? is there a better resolution than just linking the file manually ? |
| 16:59.26 | npgm | the package in question: https://packages.debian.org/sid/libgfortran-8-dev |
| 17:00.54 | ilikeyou | Bushmills: how could that be? i dont have filesystem for the iso. its an empty folder. host symlink is allowed. |
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| 17:06.27 | jhutchins_wk | ilikeyou: What filesystem are you building this on? |
| 17:07.15 | jhutchins_wk | npgm: sid-specific questions should be addressed in #debian-next on oftc.net |
| 17:07.36 | jhutchins_wk | npgm: This sounds like the sort of transient error common to sid. |
| 17:07.57 | npgm | interesting. thanks. |
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| 17:11.56 | ilikeyou | jhutchins_wk: im new to iso building, so maybe im missing something. are you asking what filesystem my host is? as far as super basic tutorial states in deb-live docs, it is: install required packages, create and move into directory, and "lb config" for the base. |
| 17:13.24 | jhutchins_wk | ilikeyou: I'm asking what the system you're building the iso on is running, what filesystem it uses. |
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| 17:17.39 | jim | hi. is there a mirror that tries to pick the closest mirror? |
| 17:17.48 | SerajewelKS | jim: deb.debian.org |
| 17:17.51 | greycat | !deb.debian.org |
| 17:17.51 | dpkg | deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See http://deb.debian.org/ for more details. |
| 17:18.04 | jim | SerajewelKS. hi :) and thanks |
| 17:18.22 | jim | greycat, hi, thanks :) |
| 17:18.48 | SerajewelKS | what is the mechanism by which the EC2 AMIs pick names for network interfaces? the interface is named eth0 but nothing appears to be configured to give it this name. net.ifnames is 0, there's nothing in rules.d or /etc/systemd/network, and udevadm does not list eth0 when asked the preferred names of the interface |
| 17:19.02 | SerajewelKS | so something is renaming it to eth0 but i can't determine where that happens |
| 17:19.25 | ilikeyou | jhutchins_wk: im on ext4 |
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| 17:21.07 | ilikeyou | https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live-manual/examples.en.html#tutorial-1 |
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| 17:23.19 | jim | ok, I got a problem... somehow, I start an apt update, and it starts waiting for headers, which never come, apparantly on any mirror... I know this is vague, but I'm not sure what to say... |
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| 17:23.40 | jim | I've tried reloading a web page, that seems to work |
| 17:24.08 | greycat | jim: could be a firewall |
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| 17:24.26 | greycat | are you able to reach one of the mirror sites using plain http: (not https:) ? |
| 17:24.38 | jhutchins_wk | ilikeyou: Which release is the live image you're building? |
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| 17:26.08 | ilikeyou | jhutchins_wk: 10 |
| 17:26.13 | jim | well I tried https://deb.debian.org |
| 17:27.01 | jim | I'll try http, one sec |
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| 17:29.30 | jim | ok, tried http, didn't work, commented out apt-cacher address, that worked |
| 17:30.16 | greycat | I'm ... confused. It sounds like you're editing sources.list. I meant "go to http://deb.debian.org/ in a web browser". |
| 17:30.36 | greycat | See if a web browser can get there. If it can't, then maybe a firewall is blocking non-encrypted HTTP or something. |
| 17:31.05 | greycat | or a messed-up "transparent" proxy, etc. |
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| 17:32.10 | jim | greycat, oh, ok, I think that would work, trying |
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| 17:35.47 | jim | putting http://deb.debian.org in my browser works, it redirects to https |
| 17:36.00 | greycat | ... |
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| 17:36.08 | greycat | I don't know whether that counts as a success or a failure. |
| 17:36.15 | greycat | It did not do that *here*. |
| 17:36.26 | jim | doesn't redirect? |
| 17:36.29 | greycat | Nope. |
| 17:36.30 | jim | doesn't what? |
| 17:36.47 | jim | so the mirror you got doesn't redirect |
| 17:36.52 | greycat | In google-chrome, it says "Not secure | deb.debian.org" in the URL bar. |
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| 17:37.20 | jim | ok |
| 17:37.41 | greycat | In lynx, going to http://deb.debian.org/ and then pressing = gives me URL:http://deb.debian.org/ |
| 17:37.46 | SerajewelKS | jim: no that's not true. the same thing happens to me. |
| 17:38.01 | greycat | what's not true, what happens to you? |
| 17:38.03 | SerajewelKS | jim: we aren't even redirected to a mirror at all |
| 17:38.14 | SerajewelKS | greycat: i am not redirected away from deb.debian.org |
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| 17:39.17 | EdePopede | SerajewelKS: not a http redirect. host if fixed, only a different machine from somewhere. dns stuff. |
| 17:39.40 | jim | ok I see what you're saying... let me be more specific |
| 17:39.57 | greycat | jim: are you able to get to ANY plain http site without it going to https? |
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| 17:40.25 | SerajewelKS | EdePopede: deb.debian.org does redirect. but not from / |
| 17:40.34 | greycat | jim: if you can't, then you may have to use https in your sources.list, which means you need to be on buster, or to install the optional apt https package on older releases. |
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| 17:41.13 | SerajewelKS | EdePopede: or at least my understanding was that it used http redirects |
| 17:41.40 | jim | when I go to http://deb.debian.org/, it redirects to https://deb.debian.org/ and I see: Welcome to deb.debian.org! |
| 17:41.52 | greycat | Try some other plain http site. |
| 17:42.46 | Peyam | hi |
| 17:42.52 | Peyam | Today I got sad |
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| 17:43.45 | Peyam | I told one of the persons that I work very closely that I really want to be like him and someday take a role as system owner and I said "Can you teach me?" and he laughing said "NOO.." |
| 17:43.53 | Peyam | I got upset |
| 17:44.17 | Peyam | That was someone that I really look up to and hearing it from him made me really sad |
| 17:44.44 | jim | see if http://lilypond.org redirects to https |
| 17:45.20 | EdePopede | SerajewelKS: ah, i tested only / with curl and firefox |
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| 17:47.46 | jim | Peyam, looks like you'll have to learn what you can from him, looks like he's not going to tutor you, maybe you have to take over the job of teaching yourself, and organizing that |
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| 17:48.27 | greycat | Maybe he's too busy, maybe he thinks you're trying to take his job, maybe he thinks you're not ready to learn, could be any number of things. |
| 17:48.44 | jim | Peyam, realize that you asked him for a few semesters worth of material and commitment |
| 17:48.53 | Peyam | Yes but I really wanted him to say yes , or to show that he cares about me as much as I do for him. Because I really see him as my role model and I am very proud of working so closely to him |
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| 17:49.16 | greycat | Then you need to tell *him*, not us. |
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| 17:49.45 | Peyam | greycat, I respect him to much to even dare to confront him. I said to some of my collegue that I wish he was my father |
| 17:49.53 | jim | Peyam, your relationship to him != his relationship to you |
| 17:50.03 | Peyam | jim, yeah I think so |
| 17:50.12 | pete4242 | Does anyone know if there are plans to adopt ipfs for package distribution? |
| 17:50.26 | Peyam | I got very sad of hearing it from him. |
| 17:50.31 | jim | it's not personal, what you asked is a huge commitment |
| 17:50.43 | Peyam | He said it on lunch and I couldn't just focus the rest of the day |
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| 17:51.00 | Peyam | yeah I know. jim :( I shouldn't have said it at all |
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| 17:51.25 | Peyam | It just would mean alot if he could like "announce" me as his student |
| 17:51.50 | greycat | This belongs somewhere other than #debian. |
| 17:52.01 | jim | well maybe... but maybe you can fix it by asking him whether you can ask him occasional questions |
| 17:52.11 | Peyam | hmm |
| 17:52.21 | Peyam | greycat, sorry. I'm just too sad. sorry you are right. |
| 17:52.25 | jim | that's FAR less of a commitment |
| 17:52.35 | ilikeyou | gota run.. ill dig more into the docs later. Thanks |
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| 17:58.55 | ctcx | Does Debian 10 already has signed shim? https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot#Supported_architectures_and_packages |
| 17:59.55 | greycat | Debian 10 is supposed to support Secure Boot. Whatever that means. |
| 18:00.23 | greycat | https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#secure-boot |
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| 18:10.54 | jim | is security.debian.org an http or https? |
| 18:11.20 | greycat | in *my* sources.list it's http |
| 18:11.38 | greycat | but if I got to it in a browser, the browser gets redirected to https |
| 18:11.48 | jim | greycat, ok |
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| 18:12.27 | greycat | have you managed to make a plain http connection to anywhere yet? |
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| 18:13.21 | ctcx | I've always seen in sources.list that protocol is always plain http, despite https being around for years already. |
| 18:13.38 | greycat | prior to buster, apt did not support https out of the box |
| 18:13.54 | greycat | https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com |
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| 18:15.31 | pete4242 | So apt checks package integrity even without https? That's good to know |
| 18:15.49 | greycat | Yeah, signed package lists have been around for a while now. |
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| 18:16.19 | babilen | http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt has some information on this as well |
| 18:16.35 | ctcx | ^ Aah, right |
| 18:16.42 | ctcx | Had forgotten about that |
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| 18:17.35 | greycat | you can read any of the /var/lib/apt/lists/*InRelease files to see the list and the signature |
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| 18:19.31 | jhutchins_wk | pete4242: The main reason for https on the package servers is just compliance with the "https everywhere" trend. It really doesn't provide any advantage for file transfer sites. |
| 18:20.16 | jim | greycat, have I managed to browse to an http site? howbout: lilypond.org |
| 18:20.40 | greycat | jim: if that's true, then I don't know what's causing your specific issue. |
| 18:21.02 | greycat | jim: all I can suggest is random crap like "try ftp.us.debian.org instead" or "try https instead" |
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| 18:21.24 | pete4242 | jhutchins_wk: What about end to end encryption? |
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| 18:21.35 | ctcx | greycat: I'm trying to install grub to a USB stick for a multiboot USB. With all due partitions in the USB and mounted, I did this "grub2-install --target x86_64-efi --removable --boot-directory=/tmp/data_mnt/boot --efi-directory=/temp/efi_mnt". This works, USB grub at least boots, but only with secure boot disabled. How could I install signed shim to the USB? |
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| 18:22.22 | jim | it looks like it's two problems... when I switch away from my usual mirror (and use deb.debian.org), and I disable connecting to the apt-cacher-ng instance, updating and installing packages works |
| 18:22.25 | meingbg | jhutchins_wk: How about confidentiality? |
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| 18:23.15 | greycat | meingbg: https://whydoesaptnotusehttps.com/ covers that |
| 18:23.54 | teclo- | greycat: indeed, an interesting read.... |
| 18:24.46 | jhutchins_wk | meingbg: Pretty silly concept. If you're on a package repo server, chances are you're downloading packages. |
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| 18:25.33 | teclo- | yeah plus like they say, with or wtihtout https, if the packages are compromised, they are compromised |
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| 18:26.43 | ctcx | Or, even possible to install signed shim to external USB? |
| 18:27.07 | meingbg | jhutchins_wk: It would protect information about which packages are downloaded. A bit far-fetched that it'd be crucial, I admit. |
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| 18:30.26 | jhutchins_wk | I suppose if a malefactor knew you'd downloaded a package with a known vulnerability they could exploit it, but that's pretty passive, there are better ways to hack a system. |
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| 18:35.02 | meingbg | jhutchins_wk: Also, to correct myself, they might be able to guess packages from sizes alone. |
| 18:35.29 | greycat | ohnoes, they know I use vim!!1 |
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| 18:39.04 | emx | Is it possible to install VLC without GUI? The purpose is to stream audio and video from a webcam. |
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| 18:41.51 | cryptopsy | how do i get sshfs not to lag my system when something is mounted with sshfs and copy files to that folder? |
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| 18:46.47 | omarek | Hi what software do you suggest for fixing a damaged GPT (partition table)? gdisk says it's damaged. |
| 18:47.34 | omarek | Someone else suggested using 'testidisk'. So now I'm in the process of running a deeper search in testdisk. |
| 18:47.55 | omarek | testdisk displays a warning about 'hidden sectors' at the screen with 'analyse' |
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| 18:51.04 | rant | omarek: gpart can possibly fix it |
| 18:51.11 | rant | ,i gpart |
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| 18:51.13 | judd | Package gpart (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Guess PC disk partition table, find lost partitions. Version: 1:0.3-6; Size: 38.2k; Installed: 80k; Homepage: https://github.com/baruch/gpart |
| 18:52.26 | cryptopsy | omarek: use grub to rewrite ur partition table as you desire |
| 18:52.40 | ctcx | greycat: was this bug https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=724931 never fixed? |
| 18:52.41 | judd | Bug https://bugs.debian.org/724931 in apt-setup (open, patch): «ISO loopback support for Debian installer»; severity: wishlist; opened: 2013-09-29; last modified: 2018-05-30. |
| 18:53.10 | greycat | how would *I* know? what does the bug report say? |
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| 18:54.26 | ponyofdeath | hi, anyone here use fwupd to update lenovo thinkpad bios? I just get a black screen after I reboot. |
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| 18:58.25 | ctcx | Ignored. Devs don't care (or like) support for this loop.ko for Debian. Last message was in May 2018 |
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| 18:58.50 | abrock | ponyofdeath: did you try an external monitor? |
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| 19:00.14 | ctcx | Though support present *only* in the Debian live CD. |
| 19:00.18 | ponyofdeath | abrock: no did not even think about this how could that help? |
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| 19:28.59 | HelloShitty | Hello peeps |
| 19:29.05 | HelloShitty | please help me with something here |
| 19:29.26 | HelloShitty | I have a server which I want to connect to it through ssh |
| 19:29.43 | HelloShitty | I have created a pair of pub and priv ECDSA keys |
| 19:30.02 | HelloShitty | copied the pub key into the server's .ssh/authourized_keys file |
| 19:30.10 | greycat | you misspelled authorized |
| 19:30.21 | HelloShitty | set permissions 700 for .ssh and 600 for authourized_keys |
| 19:30.28 | HelloShitty | in my server |
| 19:30.29 | greycat | spelling matters here. |
| 19:30.38 | HelloShitty | ups, let me check that |
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| 19:32.29 | HelloShitty | ok, fixed that but still the same problem |
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| 19:32.53 | HelloShitty | I have created a file named config inside my local machine folder ~/.ssh |
| 19:32.57 | greycat | look for errors in the log file, most likely /var/log/auth.log |
| 19:33.17 | HelloShitty | terminal says |
| 19:33.20 | HelloShitty | Permission denied (publickey). |
| 19:33.22 | greycat | if there are not enough details there, run a second instance of sshd in debug mode, on a different port, and connect to that one |
| 19:33.45 | greycat | the client is not told why a key is rejected, because that would be leaking information to an untrusted person |
| 19:33.47 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: Use scp instead. sshfs has a lot of layers to it. |
| 19:33.59 | greycat | you must get that info from the server end |
| 19:34.00 | HelloShitty | I have created a config file under ~/.ssh |
| 19:34.27 | HelloShitty | I set PasswordAuthentication no |
| 19:34.31 | HelloShitty | in server |
| 19:34.43 | greycat | why the hell did you do that before you were able to login with a key!? |
| 19:34.43 | HelloShitty | because I want to be able to login only by using the key |
| 19:34.50 | HelloShitty | I don't want to have to type the password |
| 19:35.01 | greycat | how are you going to get in RIGHT NOW? |
| 19:35.03 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: That generally works. |
| 19:35.14 | HelloShitty | I have connection open |
| 19:35.17 | HelloShitty | This is just a VM |
| 19:35.22 | HelloShitty | where I installed openssh |
| 19:35.31 | greycat | what happens if this connection ... oh, your fallback plan is to scrap the VM and reconstruct it? |
| 19:35.40 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: It's a little more reliable to use ssh-copy-id to set it up. |
| 19:35.47 | greycat | not really. |
| 19:36.03 | greycat | it's supposed to save labor, but if it doesn't work, you still have to debug it |
| 19:36.05 | HelloShitty | I have the VM open, so I can edit sshd_config file any time |
| 19:36.09 | HelloShitty | and reload the config |
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| 19:36.25 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: Yeah, get the key working _first_. |
| 19:36.36 | HelloShitty | but on the client side, don't I need to do anything to say I have a pub key on the server? |
| 19:36.50 | greycat | Generally, no. |
| 19:37.06 | HelloShitty | ok, so I'm going to use ssh-copy-id |
| 19:37.17 | greycat | *sigh* fine... waste more time. |
| 19:37.29 | HelloShitty | I just copied the .pub file over with scp |
| 19:37.35 | HelloShitty | and then just did on the server |
| 19:37.47 | HelloShitty | cat file.pub > .ssh/authorized_kyes |
| 19:37.49 | greycat | my god, stop repeating yourself and wasting time |
| 19:37.54 | greycat | go READ the LOG |
| 19:38.02 | humpled | and use >> |
| 19:38.06 | greycat | and you misspelled KEYS this time. |
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| 19:38.12 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: copy-id will set up the directory and file correctly. |
| 19:38.37 | greycat | jhutchins_wk: ... given that this person can't manage to spell the file name correctly, you might actually have a point. |
| 19:38.48 | greycat | It's not a useful thing for a competent person, but for this person... |
| 19:38.55 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Also saves on typos and spurious characters if you cut-and-paste the key (I used to just transfer it as a file and cat it to the keys file. |
| 19:39.13 | HelloShitty | what would be the log name? |
| 19:39.21 | HelloShitty | yeah, but the file names are correct |
| 19:39.24 | greycat | you could scroll up and read the things I said |
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| 19:39.36 | HelloShitty | I'm trying to find the log file greycat |
| 19:39.42 | greycat | I gave the name. |
| 19:39.52 | greycat | I gave the instructions for what to do if that doesn't have enough info. |
| 19:41.22 | HelloShitty | last line says: |
| 19:41.56 | HelloShitty | (can't copy/paste, shit) |
| 19:42.09 | Bushmills | tension rising ... |
| 19:42.22 | ecadre | hi |
| 19:42.40 | coruja | fills his popcorn bowl |
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| 19:43.46 | HelloShitty | Aug 15 20:40:41 ssh-server sudo: pam_unix(sudo_session): session opened for user root by (uid=0) |
| 19:43.47 | ecadre | I've been trying Gnome in Buster, and realised it's not using Wayland, even when I choose that option. |
| 19:44.03 | greycat | HelloShitty: ignore the sudo lines, and only look at the sshd lines. |
| 19:44.49 | adeeln | i want to downgrade my kernel on debian 10, to 3.16 (debian 8's stock kernel)....are there any basic guidelines on how to do that? |
| 19:45.01 | adeeln | (i'm an experienced linux admin, just not overly familiar with debian) |
| 19:45.15 | greycat | Just install the kernel you want, and then select it from the GRUB boot menu, assuming you use GRUB. |
| 19:45.25 | HelloShitty | I did cat auth.log | grep sshd |
| 19:45.28 | HelloShitty | is this ok? |
| 19:46.01 | diogenes_ | HelloShitty? what nickname is that? |
| 19:46.12 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: No. No cat. |
| 19:46.27 | adeeln | HelloShitty: you can do it via just: "grep sshd auth.log" no need for cat | grep |
| 19:46.30 | greycat | it'll work. this isn't the time for pedantry. |
| 19:46.49 | HelloShitty | or tail -f auth.log |
| 19:46.58 | ecadre | Thing is, Wayland is supposed to be the default now, and it seems to be installed, but it always uses X11 |
| 19:47.01 | HelloShitty | and going to try to connect again |
| 19:47.12 | ecadre | echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE |
| 19:47.15 | ecadre | x11 |
| 19:47.18 | jhutchins_wk | ecadre: Was this a clean install or an upgrade? |
| 19:47.32 | ecadre | An upgrade. |
| 19:47.33 | HelloShitty | using ssh -p <port> ssh-user@ssh.server.ip |
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| 19:47.48 | ecadre | It's an old install, dating baxk at leat to Jessie |
| 19:47.53 | ecadre | ^ back |
| 19:47.57 | ecadre | least |
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| 19:50.05 | jhutchins_wk | ecadre: Upgrades will continue to use X. |
| 19:50.13 | HelloShitty | sorry, brbr, daughter is crying like crazy. need to check what's wrong |
| 19:50.27 | ecadre | jhutchins_wk: how do I get it to change? |
| 19:50.46 | greycat | that's news to me... |
| 19:50.47 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: greycat will probably tell me it won't help, but I'd probably try ssh -vvv |
| 19:50.56 | jhutchins_wk | !wayland |
| 19:50.57 | dpkg | Wayland is a display server protocol and implementation library, intended as a simpler replacement for the X Window System. Ask me about <weston>. http://wayland.freedesktop.org/ #wayland on irc.freenode.net. |
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| 19:51.13 | jhutchins_wk | Hm, that doesn't look very current. |
| 19:51.29 | jhutchins_wk | ecadre: You might check the release notes, I think they explain it. |
| 19:51.39 | ecadre | jhutchins_wk: I know basically what Wayland is. |
| 19:51.52 | ecadre | Yep, I'll have a look at th release notes. |
| 19:52.01 | jhutchins_wk | ecadre: Yeah, there's a simple way to switch, I just haven't used it so don't know it off-hand. |
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| 19:52.44 | greycat | This is my first time hearing that users have to *do* something to get a Wayland session, if they login with whatever passes for a standard GNOME install these days. |
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| 19:53.21 | greycat | But if that's true, then the first place to look would be in the display manager (where you log in). |
| 19:53.38 | greycat | see if there's some widget there that you can click on to check/change the session type |
| 19:53.55 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Yeah, seems to me I heard something about it being in the session selector. |
| 19:54.05 | coruja | https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html#wayland-by-default-on-gnome |
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| 19:54.44 | ecadre | jhutchins_wk: it is an option in GDM etc. Alongside an X11 selection |
| 19:54.54 | osubuck_ | so i've already installed debian 10, have it customized to how i want, but realized that i didn't use drive encryption when i made the volume, is there a way to implement that now in an easy way? |
| 19:55.10 | ecadre | Nothing in the release notes for Buster or the upgrade release notes. |
| 19:55.25 | jhutchins_wk | ecadre: I'll try to remember that. We should probably update the bot. |
| 19:56.11 | jhutchins_wk | osubuck_: Back up contents, create encrypted FS, restore content? |
| 19:56.40 | osubuck_ | how doi create the encrypted FS |
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| 19:56.57 | ecadre | Soooo, I choose what is suppposed to be the Wayland option in the DM greeter thing, but it isn't. I just get X11 |
| 19:57.43 | coruja | ecadre, grepped the usual logs for error messages? |
| 19:59.55 | coruja | if this behaviour could be confirmed (and no substantial changes had been made by the user), i would consider this a bug |
| 20:00.41 | greycat | I think we need more info at this point. |
| 20:00.53 | coruja | indeed |
| 20:01.25 | coruja | iirc gdm has a log on its own? |
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| 20:02.05 | ecadre | coruja: I suppose it has |
| 20:03.26 | ecadre | hmmm, a whole gdm log directory, which is .... completely empty |
| 20:03.30 | ecadre | :-D |
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| 20:03.36 | ecadre | ^ gdm3 |
| 20:05.01 | coruja | journalctl would be a good starting point anyway, so anything suspisious there? |
| 20:05.12 | coruja | suspicious |
| 20:05.39 | ecadre | Strangly, a gdm3 log directory that was created on Feb 9 2019. Which is strange, as I haven't used a display manager in years. |
| 20:06.16 | karlpinc | osubuck_: cryptsetup, then mkfs |
| 20:06.23 | coruja | if in doubt, paste the whole log (or grepped for key words) |
| 20:07.27 | coruja | ecadre, so how did you start your session? (sorry if you wrote it and i missed/overread) |
| 20:08.38 | abrock | ponyofdeath: possibly your update damaged the connection between display and cpu, but not between cpu and external monitor. I had a laptop once which failed like that. First the display went black but HDMI out was still working so I could errrm, "update my backup" |
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| 20:09.11 | ecadre | coruja: GDM3, LightDM, Slim |
| 20:09.18 | ecadre | ^ all gave the same result |
| 20:10.12 | humpled | isn't sddm standard for gnome now? |
| 20:10.18 | ecadre | coruja: I've been using Stumpwm for the beat part of ten years, hence the comment about display managers. |
| 20:10.18 | greycat | no, gdm3 |
| 20:10.27 | greycat | sddm is for KDE |
| 20:10.31 | ecadre | ^best part |
| 20:10.32 | humpled | oh sorry |
| 20:10.32 | coruja | ecadre, i meant how do you usually start your 'wayland' session? as you said not having used a dm for years |
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| 20:12.02 | ecadre | coruja: I just installed the Gnome desktop, and it installed everything needed, so I got a DM at that point. This was a few days ago. |
| 20:12.14 | coruja | ok |
| 20:12.29 | coruja | so it should be gdm3 starting your session |
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| 20:13.14 | ecadre | coruja: Yes. And then I tried LightDM and Slim (just guessing whilst trying to look stuff up). |
| 20:14.13 | coruja | anyway, we need error messages to get ahead here, so pls dig the logs and paste anything noteworthy |
| 20:14.22 | coruja | !paste |
| 20:14.23 | dpkg | Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: http://paste.debian.net | pics/screenshots: http://file.io/ or https://imgur.com/upload | large files up to 100MB (think tar.gz): http://file.io or http://wikisend.com | Remember to tell us the URL of your paste! Cannot cut and paste? Ask me about <pastebinit>, <nopaste>, <wgetpaste>. |
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| 20:17.33 | ponyofdeath | abrock: tried with hdmi monitor connected no difference :( |
| 20:17.45 | ecadre | coruja: Just got to the possibly relevant bits in journalctl |
| 20:17.50 | ponyofdeath | abrock: dont think the efi update even starts |
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| 20:19.51 | HelloShitty | I'm back |
| 20:20.27 | HelloShitty | greycat: |
| 20:20.40 | HelloShitty | if I let PasswordLogin yes |
| 20:20.51 | HelloShitty | I can connect to the ssh server |
| 20:21.05 | HelloShitty | so, config is ok in the server side, I guess |
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| 20:21.29 | greycat | That tells you nothing about why your attempted KEY auth was rejected. Connect, and read the logs. |
| 20:21.33 | ecadre | coruja: It just goes into Xorg as if it's the most normal thing in the world. Not mention of any problems or the existence of Wayland. Incidentally, Wayland isn't mentioned anywhere in /etc/gdm3 |
| 20:21.38 | HelloShitty | I mean PasswordAuthentication |
| 20:22.16 | HelloShitty | no, I'm going to change PasswordAuthentication to no |
| 20:22.22 | HelloShitty | and see what auth.log says |
| 20:22.26 | greycat | ... |
| 20:22.35 | HelloShitty | s/no/now |
| 20:22.40 | greycat | at some point it's not worth saying anything because everything has already been said, and ignored |
| 20:22.53 | HelloShitty | So, what am I supposed to do? |
| 20:23.02 | greycat | (1) connect via key auth, (2) read logs |
| 20:23.04 | HelloShitty | What am I msiing from what you said? |
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| 20:23.41 | HelloShitty | I'm not sure what you mean by "key auth" |
| 20:23.45 | HelloShitty | I can't connect |
| 20:23.58 | HelloShitty | if I use PasswordAuthentication no |
| 20:24.03 | greycat | STOP fucking around with the sshd_config, just leave it at the DEFAULTS, and attempt a connection which you would expect to use your keys |
| 20:24.04 | HelloShitty | in server sshd_config |
| 20:24.07 | *** join/#debian kreyren (~user@ip-94-113-101-16.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:24.08 | coruja | ecadre, so now someone with deeper knowledge of gnome and gdm3 should step in |
| 20:24.11 | kreyren | dpkg: ping |
| 20:24.11 | dpkg | Yes, kreyren you are either online or you are not... http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000326 |
| 20:24.33 | kreyren | https://pastebin.com/raw/H0SMqnwW Debian is unable to load nvidia module, need help |
| 20:24.38 | HelloShitty | jeezz |
| 20:24.45 | HelloShitty | you escalate really quickly man |
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| 20:24.53 | HelloShitty | nervermind |
| 20:24.58 | kreyren | HelloShitty, ikr O.o it's always proprietary that causes issues |
| 20:25.12 | ecadre | Found the bit where it says "Failed to start Music Player Daemon." ... which has been a bit of a nuisance. What would Gnome be mucking around with that for? |
| 20:25.20 | kreyren | and i dunno how to parse overclock to nouveau without reboot |
| 20:25.24 | coruja | ecadre, as kind of experiment, you may install weston (reference wayland client) and start it to see if wayland runs at all |
| 20:25.30 | kreyren | it's faster for required usecase anyway.. |
| 20:25.49 | HelloShitty | what proprietary? |
| 20:25.50 | ecadre | Thanks coruja, I'll keep tring :-) |
| 20:25.56 | kreyren | HelloShitty, nvidia |
| 20:26.30 | ecadre | coruja: Yes, I thought about trying that. I don't know what the implications of trying it would be. |
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| 20:26.52 | HelloShitty | kreyren: what? |
| 20:26.57 | kreyren | HelloShitty, what |
| 20:26.58 | HelloShitty | nvidia? |
| 20:27.01 | kreyren | yep |
| 20:27.07 | HelloShitty | don't understand |
| 20:27.13 | coruja | ecadre, weston is like a low-class wm in the x11 world |
| 20:27.19 | HelloShitty | I'm messing with anything to do with nviia |
| 20:27.22 | kreyren | nwm fixed the issue by using nouveau |
| 20:27.23 | HelloShitty | nvidia |
| 20:27.43 | kreyren | doesn't need vulkan, vulkan is for weak |
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| 20:28.33 | ecadre | coruja: Yeah, I thought it looked like that when I noticed it. I'll have another look. It might turn up summoat or other. |
| 20:28.43 | ecadre | ^summat |
| 20:29.02 | *** mode/#debian [+l 1570] by debhelper |
| 20:29.34 | ecadre | I'm really not used to using the mouse so much :-D |
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| 20:32.46 | HelloShitty | greycat: I have already connected both with and without key |
| 20:33.03 | greycat | Then find the part of the logs that occurred at the time your key failed to work. |
| 20:33.17 | HelloShitty | but I used ssh -p xxxxx user-ssh@ip.of.ssh.server -i id_ecdsa |
| 20:33.43 | HelloShitty | meaning that I explicitly provided my private ke |
| 20:33.44 | greycat | Oh great, MORE things for you to screw up. |
| 20:34.02 | HelloShitty | but it asked for the password |
| 20:34.12 | ecadre | OK, this Weston thing is way too involved. |
| 20:34.19 | HelloShitty | What the hell are you saying man? |
| 20:34.29 | HelloShitty | I on't understand shit of what you're saying |
| 20:34.34 | humpled | ooh |
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| 20:34.44 | ecadre | wonders why he's all that bothered about this Wayland thing anyway :-D |
| 20:34.49 | HelloShitty | How am I supposed to connect using the key, without proviing the key? |
| 20:34.52 | greycat | Now you suddenly revealed that instead of letting ssh just use your keys by their default names, you are attempting to use the -i option with a filename. And you history of typing correct filenames is VERY poor. |
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| 20:35.29 | HelloShitty | some of my keyboard keys are not ok |
| 20:35.35 | HelloShitty | so many times they fail |
| 20:35.50 | charking | Hello. I'm looking for a simple program to monitor whether a few websites are up and email me if they are not. Does anyone know of one? |
| 20:35.55 | HelloShitty | so, how am I supposed to connect to the server? |
| 20:36.04 | greycat | ssh servername |
| 20:36.19 | coruja | ecadre, https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland may be a good read too |
| 20:36.22 | greycat | give -p only if you must. give a username only if you must. |
| 20:36.53 | greycat | If a private/public key pair EXISTS with ANY of the default pathnames that ssh creates them with, ssh will attempt to use them. |
| 20:37.03 | greycat | If an agent is running, any keys stored in the agent may be used. |
| 20:37.07 | charking | Maybe I should just write a script and check HTTP status from wget or something, and mail if not as expected. |
| 20:37.18 | HelloShitty | so I did but the connection was not with any key |
| 20:37.39 | HelloShitty | Accepted password for user-ssh from 192.168.122.1 port 54058 ssh2 |
| 20:37.46 | HelloShitty | that's what auth.log says |
| 20:37.46 | ecadre | coruja: Yas, I read it. Interesting stuff, but the only practical "extra" (for the end user) thing it appears to do at the moment is to make the desktop effects work. |
| 20:37.50 | ecadre | ^ Yes |
| 20:37.52 | charking | I will just write a script. Thx |
| 20:37.53 | greycat | OK, and before that? Anything about why it rejected the key? |
| 20:38.32 | HelloShitty | I failed the password because of my keyboard and it logged that failed attempt |
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| 20:38.47 | greycat | BEFORE the password stuff. Nothing at all? |
| 20:38.49 | HelloShitty | Failed password for user-ssh from 192.168.122.1 port 54058 ssh2 |
| 20:39.09 | HelloShitty | there are other connection and disconnection logs |
| 20:39.13 | HelloShitty | nothing else |
| 20:39.19 | ecadre | decides to try out the Weston thing. |
| 20:39.25 | HelloShitty | the log produced by this last login was that line alone |
| 20:40.27 | greycat | HelloShitty: Well. Then we need more info. Try running the client with -vv (I think two vees are sufficient) just to make sure the client is sending the keys. If the client is sending the keys, then you may need to run the server in debug (-d) as I said long, long, long, long ago. |
| 20:40.42 | HelloShitty | ok |
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| 20:41.19 | HelloShitty | it is sending , but not the one I created |
| 20:41.21 | ecadre | coruja: It works << Weston this is. |
| 20:41.28 | HelloShitty | because I didn't place it in the default folder |
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| 20:41.32 | greycat | ... |
| 20:42.11 | HelloShitty | can I past the last lines of the client debug in you pvt just for you to see? |
| 20:42.27 | coruja | ecadre, then wait for someone to tell you how to make gdm really start wayland |
| 20:42.39 | greycat | Are your pathnames a *secret* or something? |
| 20:42.49 | ecadre | coruja: just started a few programmes in it. |
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| 20:43.15 | greycat | Hmm, -vvv might actually be needed here. That turns on messages like "debug3: no such identity: /home/wooledg/.ssh/id_dsa: No such file or directory" which are not present in -vv. |
| 20:43.16 | coruja | ecadre, as i'm also one of the no dm/de guys (openbox in this case) ;) |
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| 20:44.32 | HelloShitty | greycat: even without the private key inside ~/.ssh? |
| 20:44.39 | HelloShitty | Or should I send it there? |
| 20:44.55 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: I'd say that it's pretty clear what the problem is. |
| 20:45.05 | greycat | Your keys should be in ~/.ssh/ and that is where ssh-keygen PUTS them unless you did something nonstandard, and why the hell would you do something nonstandard? |
| 20:45.16 | ecadre | coruja: It's quite likely that I'll go scurrying back to Stumpwm as I usually do. |
| 20:45.36 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: Get it working with the default configuration, back that up, THEN try customization. Don't try $uperKustom before you even know how it's supposed to work. |
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| 20:46.11 | greycat | 16:45 <-HelloShitty[~narayan@bl15-210-186.dsl.telepac.pt] debug3: no such identity: /home/narayan/.ssh/id_ecdsa: No such file or directory |
| 20:46.14 | greycat | Tada. |
| 20:46.32 | jhutchins_wk | This isn't the first time he's done this start-with-harebrained-custom-config trick. |
| 20:46.56 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: how? |
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| 20:47.20 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: there's on rsync on the remote end so i can't rsync through scp |
| 20:47.20 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: He's tried it with other things besides this ssh project. |
| 20:47.21 | greycat | 16:47 Ignoring MSGS from HelloShitty |
| 20:47.32 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: "he" ? |
| 20:47.44 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: Sorry, wrong conversation. |
| 20:47.49 | HelloShitty | thanks for revealing here my stuff... |
| 20:48.00 | HelloShitty | it coul be done in PVT, no? |
| 20:48.10 | HelloShitty | OMG... |
| 20:48.18 | greycat | 16:48 Ignoring ALL from HelloShitty |
| 20:48.23 | greycat | Next! |
| 20:48.47 | HelloShitty | whatever |
| 20:48.54 | HelloShitty | thanks for your time |
| 20:48.59 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: I not clear what your question was. |
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| 20:49.10 | HelloShitty | I'll be back later when you're not around, I hope |
| 20:49.29 | cryptopsy | HelloShitty: hopefully deceased |
| 20:50.03 | jhutchins_wk | HelloShitty: Seriously, get the defaults working first. |
| 20:50.06 | HelloShitty | there are more channels to get proper help |
| 20:50.12 | HelloShitty | The defaults always worked man |
| 20:50.14 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: i am replying to your last reply |
| 20:50.25 | HelloShitty | and the key also qorks but it asks for the password |
| 20:50.34 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: you said to use scp instead |
| 20:50.37 | HelloShitty | s/qorks/works |
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| 20:50.54 | greycat | scp is not a good recommendation for anything. |
| 20:51.04 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: Remind me of what the problem was. |
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| 20:51.15 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: scroll up |
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| 20:52.14 | ecadre | coruja: I may be buying a new HDD in the near future, so the horror of trying to replicate my setup can begin then. If I'm still interestd in Gnome, maybe a new install might do it. |
| 20:53.02 | jhutchins_wk | You haven't said anything about why scp wouldn't work. |
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| 20:53.34 | greycat | "The scp protocol is outdated, inflexible and not readily fixed." <https://www.openssh.com/txt/release-8.0> |
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| 20:54.02 | ecadre | jhutchins_wk: is this about setting up a keypair for logging into a server? |
| 20:54.03 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: you haven't said anything about why or how to scp would solve the problem |
| 20:54.35 | alkisg | cryptopsy: what kind of lag? CPU related or disk related? Have you run `top` etc to see? |
| 20:54.39 | cryptopsy | i cannot rsync directly to the destination since android is the dest and there's no rsync running on that side |
| 20:54.41 | jhutchins_wk | Not my problem. |
| 20:55.23 | cryptopsy | alkisg: some kind of network lag bottlenecking the user experience |
| 20:55.34 | cryptopsy | if i rsync to a tmpfs it doesn't lag |
| 20:55.43 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: You don't need rsync on the target, just sshd. |
| 20:55.51 | alkisg | cryptopsy: then it sounds like disk related, not network related? |
| 20:56.03 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: it will not work without rsync on the dest |
| 20:56.05 | greycat | you do need rsync *installed* on the target system, just not necessarily running in daemon mode |
| 20:56.27 | cryptopsy | alkisg: yes but why is the dest disk allowed to bog down the source response time |
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| 20:57.08 | cryptopsy | greycat: he has no clue what he's talking about, he suggested SCP without even knowing the problem, couldn't motivate his reply despite it being outdated like you pointed out |
| 20:57.11 | jhutchins_wk | greycat: Is that true for scp as well? |
| 20:57.18 | alkisg | cryptopsy: dest disk is debian running ssh server, and source is an android device running the sshfs client? |
| 20:57.36 | cryptopsy | jhutchins_wk: scp may work in this case but it would be slow like ftp |
| 20:57.53 | greycat | scp is a horrible hack using 1980s style misfeatures (emulating rcp). It constructs a shell command by injecting the filenames into a string, and then passing it to the user's shell to be evaluated. |
| 20:58.05 | greycat | THAT is why it isn't recommended. |
| 20:58.06 | jhutchins_wk | cryptopsy: I think you're more in the mood for an argument than a step toward a solution. Bye! |
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| 20:58.21 | cryptopsy | alkisg: est is android |
| 20:58.50 | cryptopsy | jhutchins: glad you would retract your position but i would appreciate you would not smear the blame |
| 20:59.15 | alkisg | So you're running an openssh server on android, and you copy files from debian sshfs client to the android, and the debian client lags? |
| 20:59.16 | cryptopsy | it is rather slimey |
| 20:59.28 | Bushmills | ssh for Magisk would solve the sshd and rsync problem on the Android device (launches at boot, key auth) |
| 20:59.31 | cryptopsy | alkisg: yes |
| 20:59.38 | cryptopsy | that is correct |
| 21:00.22 | alkisg | OK yeah that's too strange, I can't imagine android pushing the client limits of a debian pc... unless the pc is ancient and the android is a monster... |
| 21:00.25 | cryptopsy | alkisg: figure there must be some sshfs mount option |
| 21:00.43 | cryptopsy | alkisg: its as if its running real-time |
| 21:00.48 | w1d3m0d3 | ok, so, I just got a random freeze, the system does not react to mouse moving, sysrq, vt switching |
| 21:00.54 | w1d3m0d3 | these have been happening for a while but more so lately |
| 21:00.57 | cryptopsy | it doesn't need to, and thus doesn't need to bog me down |
| 21:00.59 | w1d3m0d3 | what could cause it and how can i debug it |
| 21:01.06 | alkisg | cryptopsy: do check the cpu and the bandwidth, to see which of them is the bottleneck; top, iftop, iotop etc |
| 21:01.16 | greycat | cryptopsy: is the physical connection between the two systems ethernet, or wireless, or USB, or serial cable, or what? |
| 21:01.32 | cryptopsy | greycat: local network wifi |
| 21:01.47 | cryptopsy | but the ping is <10ms while the lag is >1s |
| 21:02.11 | cryptopsy | i should see no bogging down of my local machine it should just buffer everything in memory |
| 21:02.14 | w1d3m0d3 | I am using nvidia proprietary drivers so that could potentially end my attempts at support but the system is near unusable with nouveau |
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| 21:02.40 | cryptopsy | rsync is not comparing file attributes, not comparing times, not comparing perms ... |
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| 21:02.57 | cryptopsy | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:03.35 | greycat | sounds like you went out of your way to make it as slow as you could |
| 21:04.31 | cryptopsy | why would you say that, checking attributes would be slower |
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| 21:04.58 | greycat | <- stunned speechless |
| 21:05.13 | greycat | ... have a nice day. |
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| 21:06.28 | cryptopsy | sshfs has mount option ServerAliveInterval=15 and ServerAliveCountMax=3 |
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| 21:08.18 | cryptopsy | do not poison the well for the next guy who attempts to answer, the results speak for themselves -- attribute checking is at least 2x slower and equal lagging |
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| 21:19.53 | cryptopsy | there is the same lag even if no files are transfered to the mounted sshfs dir |
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| 21:20.07 | cryptopsy | or any activity like du ... |
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| 21:24.43 | SerajewelKS | rsync to an sshfs mount seems silly anyway considering that rsync has sftp support |
| 21:25.12 | cryptopsy | SerajewelKS: remote server (android) doesnt have rsync which is required |
| 21:26.43 | SerajewelKS | ah, right. maybe consider using rclone instead? |
| 21:26.50 | SerajewelKS | rclone can work with an sftp backend without special support |
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| 21:27.42 | cryptopsy | there is an ftp server which has write perm to external storage but ftp is slow |
| 21:28.04 | cryptopsy | there must be an sshfs option for it to buffer |
| 21:28.15 | SerajewelKS | rclone can work with ftp too but that's not what i said |
| 21:28.16 | cryptopsy | i had it last month when i did this |
| 21:28.45 | cryptopsy | SerajewelKS: what is rclone, an android app? |
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| 22:03.33 | karlpinc | ftp sucks as a protocol. Avoid it whenever possible. |
| 22:04.02 | cryptopsy | yep |
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| 22:42.48 | SerajewelKS | ,v rclone |
| 22:42.49 | judd | Package: rclone on amd64 -- stretch: 1.35-1+b3; bullseye: 1.45-3; buster: 1.45-3; sid: 1.47.0+ex1-6 |
| 22:42.50 | SerajewelKS | cryptopsy: ^ |
| 22:43.15 | SerajewelKS | cryptopsy: it's an rclone-like tool that works with many different types of storage services: local directory, sftp, S3, B2, google drive, GCS... |
| 22:43.41 | SerajewelKS | erm rsync-like tool |
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| 22:54.45 | Nomenclatura | So... This laptop, ds0012dx, only boots with acpi=off, but then there is no keyboard or mouse. I have tried all options in here: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/admin-guide/kernel-parameters.html |
| 22:55.24 | Nomenclatura | No change... only acpi=off works... there is a message about: kfd kfd: Error initializing iommuv2 | kfd kfd: device 1002:15d8 NOT added due to errors |
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| 23:45.44 | ZaZaGX | hello |
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