IRC log for #bzflag on 20170109

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14:36.35*** join/#bzflag alpha1-2 (~alpha1@host41.201-252-191.telecom.net.ar)
14:44.30blast007But there wouldn't be bot in a publicly advertised server, right?
14:46.10blast007'Server owners who ... use "bot" clients to artificially inflate their list position ... may be removed from the list and/or have access to other BZFlag public services revoked.'  <-- so that doesn't apply, does it?
14:48.01blast007why do you think people would want to play against bots?
14:49.07blast007I'm not talking about the public server
14:49.20blast007why would people want to switch to your private server to play against bots?
14:50.49blast007what kind of bots?  just the -solo bots?
14:50.58blast007cuz those don't play CTF
15:15.49blast007again, you're not using it to inflate your list position, so whatever.
16:15.35*** join/#bzflag Zehra (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra)
16:17.38blast007still needs to have an open-source license
16:41.12*** join/#bzflag KaadmY (uid135503@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wuaqpxyxqepvyakz)
19:12.35*** join/#bzflag alpha1-2 (~alpha1@host71.190-137-0.telecom.net.ar)
19:33.35*** mode/#bzflag [+v alpha1-2] by blast007
20:09.31alpha1-2according to experience, timed CTF servers should be better available only for registered players (somewhat like on leagues) or for all?
20:10.25blast007I assume you mean the control of the time commands, not access to the server itself?
20:11.06alpha1-2yes, that. /timelimit /countdown, etc
20:11.59alpha1-2(SPAWN perm too)
20:16.37blast007you could have it split so that registered can control the match settings but everyone can spawn
20:17.26alpha1-2ah, and in case of bad behaviours make a poll kick/ban?
20:17.36alpha1-2making*
20:18.44alpha1-2in example, if there is a match in progress and someone joins and plays, making it uneven
20:19.05alpha1-2(and doesn't hear advices)
20:19.45alpha1-2sounds good
20:19.45blast007or just don't bother with timed matches and just run a normal public CTF
20:20.32allejothe playerJoinHandler plug-in automatically forwards players to the observer team if a match is in progress
20:20.56blast007allejo: does it handle subs?
20:21.04allejoyup
20:21.10blast007nnnneeeeat
20:21.30alpha1-2I was remebering something like that but was not sure :)
20:44.25alpha1-2allejo, found a pair of errors in README text: "players will only be able *to* join" and "even if they have *a* session". I have some suggestions to improve your plugin also (is it okay to discuss plugins here?)
20:47.11allejosure why not
20:48.24alpha1-2have patience please since my English is not very good
20:49.25allejograbs his stress ball
20:49.30allejogo for it
20:49.43alpha1-2it is nice because it handles incomers avoiding them to spawn. But I think it could be improve, maybe, handling others situations
20:49.56alpha1-2hehe
20:50.20alpha1-2also it could be useful for leagues
20:50.47allejowhat other situations are there? a player joins or...?
20:51.00allejoalready being used on LU's east coast servers
20:54.14alpha1-2if there was a 2vs2 match running, and 2 observers would want to join; let's say playerA and playerB. There could be a command like "/join playerB" (by playerA, indicating their mate playerB), then a server message could appear to players, like a poll one, allowing them to vote. If everybody accepts, then they can join in the next 30 seconds. This would prevent any unwanted join ad make all more automatic.
20:54.40alpha1-2and*
20:57.43alpha1-2the plugin allows any observer to join right?
20:57.48allejocorrect
20:58.26allejoonly reason I object to that idea is because while it would prevent unwanted joins, it'd just spam the chat during a match which players will take exception to
20:58.28alpha1-2wel, just thought that. If it doesn't make all more complicated...
20:59.21Zehrawouldn't something like /2in work?
20:59.32Zehraplaces a simple request
20:59.42alpha1-2yes, thought on that too. Maybe would be much more annoying for leagues
21:00.03alpha1-2or maybe making the countdown tinier
21:00.08alpha1-2(for poll)
21:00.18alpha1-230 or 15 seconds
21:00.38Zehracommands like /y and /n might work
21:00.52Zehraif more than 3/4 agree to 2in
21:01.01alpha1-2"PlayerA wants to join with PlayerB. please, vote yes or no in the next 15 seconds". Just 1 message could work.
21:01.02Zehrathen permit join of players
21:01.45alpha1-2anyway always there are public chat petitions "2 in?" and everyones has to think :)
21:02.21Zehrasounds like it could work
21:03.25alpha1-2also more info would be given, the 2 names. Ah and forgot, it is also to make it always even. If only a player wanted to join, it would stop them.
21:03.45Zehrathat sounds good
21:03.56Zehrakind of would be nice if exception though
21:04.18Zehralike in the case of teams having made it 3-7 or so in caps
21:04.20alpha1-2sorry Zehra I am delayed
21:04.28alpha1-2I was ansering allejo
21:04.39Zehranp
21:04.41alpha1-2answering*
21:06.58Zehraif plug-in is made i'm willing to test
21:07.41alpha1-2Zehra: in leagues at least, if 1 player doesn't want, it is not alowed. Seems fair; full agreement
21:08.21alpha1-2ah exception for uneven matches; could be
21:08.37Zehrayes
21:08.57alpha1-2well, in a next step, then :)
21:08.57Zehracheck the recent matches LU has made
21:09.08Zehraphase 2 of plug-in
21:09.13alpha1-2have not thougth on that
21:09.56Zehraalso it needs system if players fail to vote
21:10.13Zehrahow would it count that?
21:10.29alpha1-2if anyone doesn't agree, they can't join
21:10.41Zehraif they do not vote?
21:10.44alpha1-2maybe for the full match
21:10.55Zehralike lets say it's 3vs3 fm
21:11.02Zehra2 players want to join
21:11.07alpha1-2well they should
21:11.12Zehratwo support
21:11.22Zehrarest don't even bother to vote
21:11.36Zehradoes plug-in allow players to join?
21:11.37alpha1-2I mean, the exact same petition for the same match
21:11.48alpha1-2if a player changes, could be
21:12.15alpha1-2they should vote, I meant
21:12.37alpha1-2if not, they can't join neither
21:13.24alpha1-2just saying "please /vote yes/no"
21:13.34alpha1-2teaching
21:13.40Zehratyping takes time
21:13.52Zehraa simple /y and /n should be alright
21:13.55Zehrai think
21:14.08alpha1-2well, then making a special poll of 1 message and 30 seconds of time :P
21:14.17Zehramight work
21:14.53alpha1-2not sure if the poll system could be modified by plugins tho
21:15.38alpha1-2yes, maybe
21:15.55alpha1-2(to /y and /n)
21:16.33Zehralike in the jumping skills maps
21:16.45Zehratype /d to sk quickly
21:17.38Zehrabtw
21:17.56Zehraautomatic sk of players once they join
21:18.06*** join/#bzflag [Gort] (~gort@82-69-126-225.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
21:18.06*** join/#bzflag [Gort] (~gort@unaffiliated/gort/x-9231432)
21:18.12Zehraunless in case of sub
21:18.31alpha1-2we don't ned to use the system poll I think; all handled by the plugin
21:19.46alpha1-2"PlayerA wants to join with PlayerB. Please, vote yes or no in the next 15 seconds by using /y or /n."
21:19.54alpha1-230 seconds*
21:20.21alpha1-2allejo?
21:21.57allejohuh oh sorry. was getting lunch
21:22.02allejolemme catch up
21:22.03alpha1-2np
21:22.56alpha1-2also a similar system for subs
21:23.13alpha1-2(have not thought still)
21:24.19alpha1-2as I said, maybe it makes all more complicated :P
21:24.30alpha1-2just*
21:26.47alpha1-2I was playing in pielovers, which had a time CTF server for registered players, and they had to explain to some players how even matches works. This will be made automatically.
21:27.26allejoi think it'd complicate things too much
21:27.28alpha1-2something like balanced capturing plugin
21:27.49Zehrathat could be a help page or something
21:28.04allejobesides, it'd be nice if the bzfs API had the ability to create custom polls instead of relying on developers to reewrite that functionality every time
21:28.30alpha1-2okay. Yes, would be nice.
21:29.17alpha1-2what example of polls?
21:29.20allejosomething to keep in mind when designing the API for 2.6, if ever
21:29.43alpha1-2"want to stop this match?"
21:30.14alpha1-2would be nice: text, time, percentage of positive votes, ...
21:31.05allejotoo many poll options is just getting a tad ridiculous :)
21:31.47alpha1-2what example of polls?
21:31.55alpha1-2(maybe :)
21:32.26allejoidunno, that's up to the people who write plugins
21:32.55alpha1-2you always can have default values. It is always better to have too many options than too few
21:34.29alpha1-2in the case of ban/kick, you need the majority; in the case of accepting new players, you need total agreement
21:34.50alpha1-2(or at least no any negative vote)
21:35.05Zehralike what happens in the case of one player wanting to be partly annoying
21:35.13Zehraand they always vote no
21:35.22alpha1-2Zehra: that is also possible, as you said, if anybody doesn't vote, that is not counted
21:35.39alpha1-2then, allejo, that would not be so annoying
21:35.52Zehrasome will just not even bother to vote
21:35.57alpha1-2am I explainimg myself?
21:36.20allejothing is, this isn't a problem on organized servers such as leagues because player know the procedure. having a completely public match will lead to issues and at that point is just better to run a regular CTF server with no times as blast suggested
21:37.20alpha1-2Zehra: in that case the player should be banned
21:38.32alpha1-2okay allejo, yes I think I will test and see. Just was pointing out that only 1 message would be the same that "2 in?". I end now.
21:41.21Zehrahow do we know if a player dislikes 2ins and is not doing this on purpose to cause annoyance?
21:42.39alpha1-2well, the second player should type "/join" too but with "playerA" agrument, like when setting an offi match in 1vs1 server
21:43.13alpha1-2all options should be considered, to test it
21:43.37alpha1-2good point
23:05.02alpha1-2allejo, another suggestion, to make it very simple: if a match is started, nobody can join.
23:05.36alpha1-2(making it configurable OFC)
23:06.32alpha1-2might sound rude :) but for public servers could work very well, at least as a first approach
23:08.10alpha1-2(or maybe I should try to make it if it is too annoying for you)
23:10.45allejobut then i don't want to hurt players' feelings through my plugin
23:10.58alpha1-2hehe
23:11.24alpha1-2(I meant kind of a SPAWN perm, not joining as observer OFC)
23:12.04alpha1-2are you serious?
23:13.19alpha1-2well, I guess; don't want to make discussions too long
23:16.07allejowell that change should be pretty trivial to make, just add a custom BZDB variable. PRs welcome if anyone's interested
23:16.26allejoi don't object to having that feature
23:16.42alpha1-2PR= programmers?
23:16.58alpha1-2PRs*
23:19.08allejoPR = pull request
23:19.43alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:20.48alpha1-2but well I hope I had helped at least with the suggestion. Will look forward it :)
23:29.19alpha1-2I hope I *have* helped
23:36.14allejopretty sure that plugin is licensed under MIT, so it's already pretty permissive with what you can do :p
23:38.12alpha1-2TY, yes IK
23:38.40alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:39.00JeffMwhy arn't you on github?
23:39.21Zehrai could place a pull request
23:39.29alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:39.41blast007he also won't register on freenode
23:39.46JeffMwow
23:40.01alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:40.06JeffMthats why he keeps getting perosonated by cheaters?
23:40.13allejoyup
23:40.13JeffMsucks to be you
23:40.27JeffMwhat crimes are you hiding?
23:40.42alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:40.55JeffMif you had nothing to hide you'd register
23:41.21alpha1-2I don't agree with that argument
23:42.49*** join/#bzflag infobot (ibot@rikers.org)
23:42.49*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || https://wiki.bzflag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.8 released! https://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=19294
23:42.49*** mode/#bzflag [+v infobot] by ChanServ
23:42.50alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:44.18alpha1-2regarding to licenses I just need time to study well them, asI said time ago. I love FLOSS :)
23:44.53alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:45.19Zehrai've seen kaadmy do it
23:45.30alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:46.46allejowell don't you wouldn't be claiming copyright for a PR
23:47.24alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:47.29alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:47.49JeffMalpha1 is a legal entity?
23:48.06alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:48.09JeffMa corporaton or legal name?
23:48.19JeffMthen it can't legaly own anything
23:48.25JeffMI could claim I'm the legal alpha1
23:48.43JeffMcopyright is very important to open source
23:48.51alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:49.17JeffMso you want the world to add bzflag as a legimate and legal identification method?
23:49.30JeffMthis is a copyright law thing, not a bzflag policy
23:49.44alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:49.55JeffMthey should have legitimate names somewhere else
23:50.05JeffMotherweise there copyright claim is mostly invalid
23:50.45Zehraisn't is possible to release something into public domain without a name or anything?
23:50.54JeffMit's harder to prove
23:51.06alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:51.06JeffMit's all about proving you wrote the license
23:51.19Zehralike "this piece of code has been released into public domain"
23:51.39JeffMPD is special, because it does not restirct
23:51.43JeffMit's the other licenses
23:51.56JeffMso lets say alpha1-2  releases code under the GPL
23:52.02JeffMas alpha1
23:52.39JeffMall I have to do is say I'm alpha1, regiser somewhere as that name and now I can say I'm the author, and I have granted microsoft a closed source licnese
23:52.41alpha1-2also people in forums share things and they don't use many other methods, they use just nicks
23:52.58JeffMthe forum assumes copyr8ight when you post
23:53.01JeffMit was in your EULA
23:54.12alpha1-2do you mean forum rules, PHPBB licenses or other thing?
23:54.23JeffMyes
23:54.28alpha1-2copyright is assumed always, yes
23:54.54JeffMcopyright is granted to the forum on your posting, otherwise blast woiuld not have rights to publish it
23:55.03alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:55.16JeffMsure
23:55.23JeffMthey can ask for anything they want
23:55.56JeffMI give blast 20$ and he deletes your account, now legaly your code is mine
23:56.07alpha1-2but still I think (am studying) that using nicks is allowed, and keeping like them
23:56.14Zehrais it possible to for an LLC to hold copyright?
23:56.18blast007I'll do it for $10!
23:56.22JeffMit's not an allowed/disallowed thing
23:56.28JeffMit's your ability to defend
23:56.36JeffMblast007: steam credit work?
23:56.43alpha1-2hehe
23:56.49blast007I prefer GOG
23:57.05alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:57.22alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:57.29JeffMif I was allejo I'd not accept any code with out a legal name, otherways he's going down a slippery slope
23:57.36JeffMnope, it is not a right
23:57.40JeffMyou have very few rights
23:57.45JeffMit's a privilge
23:58.04JeffMyou are required by law to have a name
23:59.22alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:59.33JeffMand they are hard to defend :)
23:59.36alpha1-2<PROTECTED>
23:59.39JeffMunless they are PD
23:59.44JeffMPD makes it all super easy
23:59.55JeffMthen people can just use it with no attributation

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