| 00:26.41 | macsforme | jcp: haha |
| 00:33.44 | jcp | Iâve been pronouncing it accordingly for years |
| 00:34.39 | jcp | and now that Iâm attempting to right it, my brain keeps considering constitution/âmacs form" to be a completely different person than this âmacs for meâ guy |
| 00:38.50 | blast007 | What is the reason behind wanting a mobile port (Android and/or iOS) of BZFlag? |
| 00:39.22 | jcp | Uh |
| 00:39.25 | jcp | Thatâs even a question? |
| 00:39.27 | jcp | ducks |
| 01:08.54 | allejo | blast007, because 3D gaming on a phone is super easy |
| 01:10.57 | blast007 | I'm being serious.. what is the motivation? |
| 01:11.07 | blast007 | is it to get more players? |
| 01:11.52 | blast007 | is it because we think we'd have a chance against the vast cesspool of mobile games? |
| 01:13.58 | allejo | I believe one of the big reasons is hopes for exposure and attracting more players |
| 01:16.09 | blast007 | And what makes people think we need to attract more players? |
| 01:17.32 | allejo | The lack of players online at any given time |
| 01:17.47 | blast007 | ccb: feel free to chime in any time |
| 01:18.27 | ccb | i have no intent to chime in. |
| 01:18.55 | blast007 | well, you're the one who started a petition for a mobile version of the game, figure you might have some insight to offer |
| 01:19.22 | ccb | i have no insight to offer on #bzflag regarding a mobile app. |
| 01:20.03 | blast007 | so you'd rather just stir people up with a petition? |
| 01:20.12 | ccb | I could discuss this in pm, if you prefer? |
| 01:20.20 | blast007 | nah |
| 01:21.10 | ccb | stir people up? if someone is being stired up they are suffering from some physiological issues |
| 01:21.23 | ccb | this is merely an idea. |
| 01:21.39 | blast007 | if it was merely an idea, it would be a forum topic, not an online petition |
| 01:22.09 | allejo | ^ which there have been several of |
| 01:22.39 | blast007 | do you realize how many people download BZFlag, ccb? |
| 01:22.48 | ccb | i have no interest to discuss this on a forum level. And i wanted a way to track every ones opinion on the matter. |
| 01:23.05 | blast007 | in the month of January alone, there were somewhere from 1503 to 1660 download of BZFlag from SourceForge alone |
| 01:23.23 | blast007 | and that doesn't count the installs from various linux distributions that host their own binary packages |
| 01:23.26 | ccb | clearly not enough |
| 01:23.37 | blast007 | so where are all those players? |
| 01:23.49 | ccb | 1503 installed and 1502 uninstalled. |
| 01:23.57 | ccb | so the 1 player we gained is on mofo. |
| 01:24.13 | blast007 | so some mobile version is going to just MAGICALLY FIX EVERYTHING! |
| 01:25.04 | ccb | ah see, you went down the road of arguing. i was going to have a intelligent conversation with you but now i just can't. |
| 01:25.26 | ccb | for one, a mobile version could MAGICALLY fix everything. |
| 01:26.05 | blast007 | how? |
| 01:26.20 | ccb | how couldn't it? |
| 01:26.46 | blast007 | I have a lot of ways it couldn't, I'm asking for ways it could fix everything |
| 01:27.02 | ccb | simple, 1 it's free: 2: its a game 3: its a game thats' multiplayer |
| 01:27.31 | ccb | and if you look on the market that has free games they have a lot of downloads, and a multiplayer game will have even more. |
| 01:27.40 | blast007 | one that would be limited to wifi only |
| 01:27.53 | blast007 | no single player |
| 01:27.57 | blast007 | no mobile broadband |
| 01:28.03 | ccb | wifi ony? |
| 01:28.07 | blast007 | yeah |
| 01:28.16 | blast007 | you want people playing over mobile broadband? |
| 01:28.26 | ccb | people play now with 320 lag |
| 01:28.28 | blast007 | you realize how much jitter mobile broadband induces? |
| 01:28.33 | ccb | i bet my 4g would amount to the same. |
| 01:28.43 | ccb | and if its only wifi thats not a issue |
| 01:28.53 | ccb | look how many ipads and galaxy tab s have been sold |
| 01:29.09 | ccb | majority of those people are using wifi, most people dont opt for the cell phone carrier package. |
| 01:29.15 | ccb | so even if it is wifi thats not a problem yet again. |
| 01:29.50 | blast007 | but just putting the game on mobile isn't fixing the core problems |
| 01:30.11 | ccb | 200 million ipads sold in 2014, i bet 100 million of those were only wifi capable models. |
| 01:30.54 | ccb | if 100 million ipads are accessing the apple app store, the odds of gaining players would be in our favor. |
| 01:31.25 | blast007 | now, let's think about this for a moment - do you think the attention span of a mobile device user, on average, is higher or lower than that of a PC user? |
| 01:31.54 | ccb | i have to statistics that could prove either of those do you? |
| 01:32.18 | blast007 | it's more a pondery |
| 01:32.30 | ccb | i am not going to take a shot in the wind. |
| 01:32.40 | ccb | that doesnt prove your point. |
| 01:32.40 | blast007 | I'm not asking for an answer |
| 01:32.42 | blast007 | it's to think about |
| 01:33.02 | macsforme | blast007: people want a mobile client... otherwise there wouldn't have been numerous topics over the years requesting one |
| 01:33.36 | ccb | samsung sold 40 million tablets in 2013, so thats a total of 243 million samsung and apple tablets, this does not take into account the other tablet manufacturing companies out there. |
| 01:33.46 | blast007 | macsforme: they also wanted realistic grass, and kill cams, and cheat prevention, and dozens of new flags, and cheat prevent, and better graphics, and cheat prevention |
| 01:34.05 | blast007 | the problem is that the game, in it's current state, sucks |
| 01:34.14 | macsforme | nothing is wrong with any of those desires |
| 01:34.19 | blast007 | porting it to another platform doesn't make it stop sucking, it's just makes it suck on more devices |
| 01:34.36 | blast007 | there's plenty wrong with kill cams |
| 01:34.37 | ccb | it would be safe to say there is about 500 million tablets sold a year in the usa. I bet half of those access the the app store. |
| 01:34.49 | blast007 | and I'm just saying we don't always do what the masses demand |
| 01:35.02 | ccb | no, the problem is, you should |
| 01:35.17 | blast007 | we should do what the masses demand? |
| 01:35.20 | ccb | majority rules, by not following the masses the game will continue to die. |
| 01:35.22 | blast007 | screw that |
| 01:35.56 | ccb | what makes your opinion better than the masses? |
| 01:38.32 | blast007 | it's what makes a dictatorship work |
| 01:38.55 | blast007 | also, large groups of people can put out a lot of stupid ideas and opinions |
| 01:39.01 | ccb | so thats your goal. |
| 01:39.12 | blast007 | that's not the goal, that's how it has been for years |
| 01:39.24 | ccb | so stop going against the wood grain. |
| 01:40.02 | allejo | If I may step in before things escalate further... Open source projects or any projects for the matter listen to the users but don't always accept or do exactly what the users want |
| 01:40.23 | allejo | As an example, all MS Office users sign a petition to make Office free |
| 01:40.45 | allejo | MS isn't going to make it free just because the masses demand it |
| 01:41.54 | allejo | It's not a dictatorship where what developers say goes but at the same time we can't always please everyone |
| 01:42.33 | blast007 | allejo: Get me a milkshake! |
| 01:43.03 | allejo | ~milkshake |
| 01:43.18 | blast007 | see? I don't always get what I want. |
| 01:43.25 | ccb | thats a poor example. |
| 01:43.36 | blast007 | yeah, you're right.. I didn't even specify the flavor |
| 02:00.02 | jcp | hands blast007 an earwax flavored milkshake |
| 02:00.19 | jcp | hands ccb an Android client that implements a feature set more or less equivalent to bzadmin |
| 02:00.31 | blast007 | I already have earwax flavored jellybeans |
| 02:00.45 | jcp | Well now you have a shake too |
| 02:00.52 | kierra | picky picky picky ;) |
| 02:01.00 | ccb | i already have a bzadmin android client |
| 02:02.00 | jcp | good for you |
| 02:02.12 | ccb | no it's not good. |
| 02:02.18 | jcp | My justification for wanting a mobile client is purely so my siblings will stop bugging me for one |
| 02:02.38 | jcp | cuz, yâknow, my parents gave them tablets but not laptops and they want to play BZFlag again |
| 02:03.26 | jcp | but I tried to write a webgl+three.js client once |
| 02:03.37 | ccb | http://fortune.com/2015/01/15/mobile-console-game-revenues-2015/ |
| 02:03.39 | jcp | Itâs⦠nontrivial is a vast understatement |
| 02:03.52 | ccb | Mobile game revenues set to overtake console games in 2015 |
| 02:03.56 | ccb | crazy |
| 02:04.03 | jcp | But the thing youâre running up against, ccb, is that none of us actually care |
| 02:04.15 | jcp | We code largely for the sheer enjoyment of coding |
| 02:04.22 | ccb | not none of you |
| 02:04.24 | jcp | Not for the popularity the things we write may or may not see |
| 02:04.25 | ccb | that is fale |
| 02:04.31 | ccb | false* |
| 02:04.38 | blast007 | yeah, because kids are spending $5000 on virtual currency to buy virtual items for their virtual puppy |
| 02:05.21 | jcp | ccb: So I absolutely commend the idea of creating a mobile client, and I always will. And if I find the time and/or the interest, Iâll write one |
| 02:05.37 | ccb | look like consti has that covered. |
| 02:05.43 | jcp | Does he? |
| 02:06.16 | ccb | have you contributed anything to this point? |
| 02:07.22 | jcp | Me? |
| 02:07.48 | ccb | yes jcp . |
| 02:08.47 | ccb | ill take that as a no. |
| 02:09.17 | jcp | Oh, letâs see⦠I had committer rights (have? Havenât actually tried pushing anything in >3 years. I hear we've moved to github now, which is cool), I wrote what was at the time the most powerful BZFlag server web administration thingie, I ran a server network for a few years |
| 02:09.27 | jcp | A bit :-P |
| 02:09.49 | jcp | decides he doesnât care enough about this debate to keep arguing and goes home |
| 02:10.27 | ccb | good idea, because you aren't even debating about the right topic. your are talking about bzflag as a whole, as i am speaking of the apple app. |
| 02:11.21 | jcp | Ooooh, heâs totally written one :D |
| 02:11.29 | jcp | fails to see ccbâs point once again and goes home |
| 02:11.32 | macsforme | oh, did jcp write the web admin interface I've heard of? :P |
| 02:11.52 | jcp | Depends on which one youâve heard of :-P Mine has, to my understanding, been long outpaced |
| 02:12.08 | jcp | I quit maintaining it after I stopped running bztraining |
| 02:12.31 | macsforme | jcp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLn0IJ7t1Ic |
| 02:12.34 | jcp | Iâve just been told of your observer only app though, macsforme |
| 02:12.40 | jcp | â¦hahahah, yeah |
| 02:12.42 | jcp | Thatâs awesome |
| 02:13.56 | allejo | no, yours was Java based right? Man that was a pain to startup :p |
| 02:14.01 | allejo | jcp* |
| 02:14.04 | jcp | ~lart allejo |
| 02:14.04 | infobot | takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down allejo's throat until allejo puts on 150lbs |
| 02:14.14 | macsforme | theoretically you could probably play on it... just not well :P |
| 02:14.18 | jcp | Yes it was and yes it was :-P |
| 02:14.21 | allejo | I don't know how jcp was autocorrected to "no" |
| 02:14.23 | allejo | hehe |
| 02:14.28 | jcp | haha |
| 02:15.00 | jcp | macsforme: So does it actually allow you to play? |
| 02:15.19 | jcp | Because my siblings would⦠well, love the idea of it, except that theyâre all on Androids |
| 02:15.23 | macsforme | well, you could probably open the keyboard and hit 'i', then drag your finger around like a cursor |
| 02:15.32 | jcp | Right |
| 02:15.41 | macsforme | so technically yes, but it would need a better interface |
| 02:15.48 | jcp | Fair enough |
| 02:16.16 | jcp | I take it itâs just the stock client running on an iPhone, rather than a full rewrite? |
| 02:16.23 | macsforme | for example, http://fairserve.net/~josh/bzflag/embedded/touchscreen%20bindings.png |
| 02:16.28 | jcp | (Feel free to tell me to shut up if this is all in your forum post. I havenât read it yet) |
| 02:16.44 | jcp | Yeah, that seems reasonable to me |
| 02:16.49 | macsforme | it's a port to OpenGL ES |
| 02:16.55 | macsforme | it's running natively on the phone |
| 02:17.06 | jcp | Maybe let them use volume/other buttons for things as well |
| 02:17.26 | jcp | Nice |
| 02:17.32 | jcp | Any idea what itâd take to get it running on Android? |
| 02:17.52 | macsforme | it might compile as-is (or with minimal work), but I don't have an android device |
| 02:18.16 | jcp | Hmk |
| 02:18.24 | jcp | might have to take a crack at it at some point |
| 02:18.44 | ccb | i could send you my galaxy s3 :P |
| 02:18.49 | blast007 | I don't think the mobile code has been made public |
| 02:19.52 | macsforme | I've been rebasing it onto 2.4 every now and then... I'm just waiting for the release to rebase it off of 2.4.4 final, then I'll do merges in the future |
| 02:20.39 | jcp | would just ask macsforme really, really nicely |
| 02:20.58 | jcp | ccb: thanks for the offer, but I daresay my xperia z5 compact will outpace it just a little :-P |
| 02:21.31 | allejo | Bitbucket has private repos, fwiw |
| 02:21.59 | macsforme | jcp: you can have it... it's not a secret or anything... I just don't want people to be upset when I do one more rebase and it messes up their existing history |
| 02:23.23 | macsforme | I was going to give it an icon, and make two-finger swipes change tabs or scroll the console... that's hopefully in the next few days |
| 02:23.37 | jcp | allejo: I'm one of those sellouts that actually pays github for private repos, so that's not an issue for me :-P |
| 02:27.06 | jcp | has a real people job now |
| 02:27.28 | ccb | congrats. |
| 02:27.41 | jcp | macsforme: throw it at me whenever you have a moment. I can handle a little upstream rebase now and then |
| 02:47.34 | macsforme | hmm, so you can spawn and drive around :) |
| 02:47.52 | macsforme | and fire, apparently |
| 02:50.52 | ccb | lol nice. |
| 02:51.05 | ccb | just not jump?:P, perfect for ducati! |
| 02:53.18 | macsforme | it's not perfect for anything right now... that was simply an experiment |
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| 03:06.10 | allejo | macsforme, follow Microsoft's methodology. if it builds, it ships! (*glares at Vista*) |
| 03:06.29 | allejo | jcp, I just host my own repos. i have way too many for github to be cheap :x |
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| 04:19.58 | macsforme | yes, Windows Vista is widely regarded as one of the best operating systems Microsoft has ever released... |
| 04:20.42 | macsforme | zuii: I think you asked me a question while I was afk... I plan to post the source code on github once BZFlag 2.4.4 is released, so people will be able to try it |
| 04:21.26 | macsforme | do you own any devices it would run on? I've run it on two different iPhones, a Raspberry Pi, and a GCW Zero |
| 04:24.00 | zuii | I have raspberry pi, but is it possible to build to android? |
| 04:24.55 | the_map | macsforme: what about on a ti-84 calculator? ;) |
| 04:25.22 | zuii | oh i have one of those too |
| 04:25.28 | zuii | ;;) |
| 04:26.13 | the_map | the monochrome screen might make it harder |
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| 13:52.30 | macsforme | I'll try to finish the copyright touch later today |
| 13:52.50 | macsforme | the_map: patches welcome :P |
| 14:01.09 | macsforme | celebrates the irony of manually updating the copyright year of the misc/touchcopyright script |
| 14:19.17 | BulletCatcher | Feel free to make the touchcopyright script automatically select the correct before-and-after years. |
| 14:32.21 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~cauchy@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 14:41.50 | the_map | but then we'd miss out on the irony! |
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| 14:54.53 | montoya | Hi, is there any way to set up server version 2.4.2 to _not_ require udp? Some mates are behind a firm firewall, so udp for them is not an option. I tried -noudp option, it doesn't work and seems to be removed from the source code as well. |
| 14:55.35 | montoya | I have a debian server so I can compile and configure bzflag however I want |
| 15:09.04 | blast007 | they trying to play from behind a corporate firewall? |
| 15:19.59 | kierra | Hola boricua! |
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| 15:27.40 | montoya | Blast: nice idea, however only some of us are behind that firewall, the others are not. The server can't be in, it wouldn't be accessible from out |
| 15:28.17 | blast007 | I guess the question was more "why are they trying to play from work?" ;) |
| 15:29.07 | blast007 | the real solution is to get the network admin hooked on BZFlag too |
| 15:29.12 | montoya | Well... That's quite common in development I think. You know, compiling: https://xkcd.com/303/ |
| 15:30.27 | blast007 | search for the kick message and you should see how to prevent it from kicking them |
| 15:30.34 | blast007 | in the code, that is |
| 15:31.04 | blast007 | and then I'd highly recommend not making it a public server unless you want it to be a major target of abuse |
| 15:31.15 | montoya | Do you think if I comment that line/call, it works properly? |
| 15:31.24 | montoya | I guess it's there for a reason |
| 15:32.10 | montoya | Won't make it public, no worries |
| 15:32.19 | blast007 | it's there because TCP isn't good for sending information that can have some loss and where a resent transmission isn't useful (since it would be too old) |
| 15:32.56 | montoya | It's clear |
| 15:49.05 | Chestal | montoya: just to clarify: it's the firewall on the client side network that supposedly is the problem? |
| 15:50.42 | montoya | Yep |
| 15:53.54 | Chestal | both bzflag's TCP and UDP communication is rather firewall friendly and should "just work" |
| 15:54.47 | blast007 | might just be blocking all UDP and whitelisting certain TCP ports |
| 15:54.49 | Chestal | of course any kind of paranoia config can stop both the TCP and UDP from working |
| 15:55.30 | montoya | Seems tcp is working |
| 15:55.43 | montoya | They can connect but being kicked when trying to fire |
| 16:21.11 | montoya | Thanks, blast, it worked fine :) |
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