| 00:03.21 | blast007 | you'd have to try it and see |
| 00:04.30 | kaadmy | seems to work so far |
| 00:04.43 | kaadmy | might have side effects that i haven't seen yet though ;) |
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| 01:04.21 | blast007 | so for issue 33 (Gameover doesn't kill players), are we wanting to fix that on the client, or the server? https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/issues/33 |
| 01:06.08 | blast007 | on the client, we could call gotBlowedUp |
| 01:06.28 | blast007 | but I'm not sure what BlowedUpReason we'd use for that |
| 01:06.52 | allejo | would the goal of moving more things to the server be apt for this? |
| 01:08.57 | blast007 | I don't know if we can cleanly do it on the server yet since the client partially handles it in 2.4 |
| 01:10.15 | blast007 | or maybe the real problem is that we're not marking them as dead on the server |
| 01:13.18 | allejo | they're not being marked dead because the client isn't saying it's dead |
| 01:13.19 | kaadmy | speaking of killing players |
| 01:13.37 | kaadmy | what's the best way to kill all players via a plugin? |
| 01:13.50 | blast007 | kaadmy: by shutting the server down |
| 01:14.05 | allejo | loop through the list of players |
| 01:14.10 | kaadmy | i want to keep scores/players connected |
| 01:14.26 | the_map | blast007: that would kick the players, afaik |
| 01:14.27 | Constitution | use assassins |
| 01:14.31 | kaadmy | heh |
| 01:14.44 | kaadmy | there's bz_superKill, but it kicks not kills |
| 01:14.55 | the_map | get a few people from a league server to join for a couple min |
| 01:14.59 | blast007 | do what allejo said |
| 01:15.12 | kaadmy | the_map: lulk |
| 01:15.29 | the_map | what? |
| 01:15.34 | allejo | if you wanna copy paste: https://github.com/allejo/bztoolkit/blob/master/bzToolkitAPI.h#L82-L105 |
| 01:23.31 | allejo | ~blast007++ |
| 01:27.28 | Constitution | if any mac users could try to build with the stuff I committed last night and SDL 2.0.4, that would be helpful |
| 01:34.19 | Constitution | well, build it and test it... I believe it does build |
| 01:37.21 | allejo | I always have issues whenever you makes changes so I'll test it tonight when I get home :) |
| 01:45.43 | Constitution | "issues" like having out-of-date code, perhaps? |
| 01:46.59 | allejo | more like not being able to find SDL or respective variables :x |
| 01:48.26 | allejo | should I push an RC3 to the banner or remove the RC? |
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| 02:09.01 | blast007 | allejo: why do either right now? |
| 02:11.17 | allejo | oh just thought it was close to another release |
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| 02:17.11 | blast007 | I imagine we probably won't do another RC, but we're not quite ready for the release yet |
| 02:23.55 | Constitution | why would we not do another RC, considering everything we've supposedly fixed since the last one? |
| 02:30.02 | blast007 | you make it sound like there's a lot that we've changed |
| 02:30.56 | blast007 | the only thing we've really done is fixed some crash on exit bugs and put in that SDL2 workaround for Mac |
| 02:31.10 | blast007 | things* |
| 02:32.37 | blast007 | there were more commits updating the various documentation files than there was actual code commits |
| 02:37.21 | Constitution | the RC2 build had a much older SDL library than the final build will, since I had to hold it back due to some stuff that was broken |
| 02:38.20 | Constitution | I think it's important that the recent changes plus SDL 2.0.4 be widely tested, so we know whether stuff actually works or if we should keep what we had with RC2 |
| 02:39.17 | kaadmy | i'm thinking of a complete bzflag rewrite |
| 02:39.28 | kaadmy | same gameplay, same graphics |
| 02:39.35 | allejo | kaadmy, and we're thinking of 2.4.4 :) |
| 02:39.49 | kaadmy | but some stuff that was in 2.99 |
| 02:41.25 | allejo | Constitution, I have to update SDL.framework right? |
| 02:41.50 | Constitution | yeah, download 2.0.4 from their site, please... that's what I would like to ship with |
| 02:43.14 | allejo | sure thing |
| 02:47.26 | blast007 | Constitution: okay, then sure, that sounds like it's worth doing RC3 |
| 03:05.07 | Flak | i seem to have issues on #sujevo |
| 03:05.13 | Flak | [404] Flak #sujevo Cannot send to channel |
| 03:06.36 | blast007 | that's a good thing for my sanity |
| 03:07.03 | Flak | oh no |
| 03:07.21 | Flak | am i blocked? |
| 03:07.47 | blast007 | it has nothing to do with this channel |
| 03:08.26 | Flak | are you certain? |
| 03:09.34 | blast007 | yes, this is #bzflag, not #supportforrandomchannels |
| 03:17.00 | Flak | oh |
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| 03:50.37 | kaadmy | uh then what's #sujevo for? it's mostly people from bzflag |
| 04:24.52 | kierra | Its for super cool people |
| 04:28.14 | the_map | oh...I guess I should leave then... |
| 04:28.49 | kierra | kaadmy: you should ask allejo that question, it's his channel |
| 04:37.04 | kaadmy | i can't chat on the channel, blockes |
| 04:37.07 | kaadmy | blocked* |
| 04:37.09 | the_map | kaadmy: blast007 and allejo quote DBZ, I make lame jokes, alezakos makes sure that we can always nag each other, and kierra occasionally condescends to bestow wisdom upon our foolishness |
| 04:38.41 | the_map | oh, and Constitution talks about dev, like allejo, alezakos, and blast007 should be doing |
| 04:40.59 | kaadmy | uh ok |
| 04:41.24 | kaadmy | is this why bzflag's development is going stale? |
| 04:42.17 | allejo | my channel has nothing to do with bzflag. it just happens that's where bzion development discussions partake |
| 04:42.25 | blast007 | no, that's Youtube's fault |
| 04:42.33 | the_map | +DBZ |
| 04:54.47 | allejo | Constitution, I haven't had any issues with SDL 2.0.4 yet |
| 04:55.27 | allejo | except for one thing i've noticed |
| 04:56.20 | kierra | kaadmy, need registered nick to talk on #sujevo |
| 04:56.20 | the_map | you broke the build? |
| 04:56.26 | allejo | Start full screen > F1 > Resize using green button > F1 > F1 |
| 04:56.46 | allejo | that causes the HUD to not resize so the top part gets cut off. the callsign, status, and time |
| 04:56.59 | Constitution | ew |
| 04:57.10 | the_map | green button? |
| 04:57.36 | Constitution | and it didn't do that with RC2? |
| 04:57.40 | the_map | also, is there a reason you test that sequence of manipulations specifically?... |
| 04:57.42 | allejo | http://cl.ly/0E1Z1e041r0V |
| 04:57.44 | blast007 | muffin button? |
| 04:58.00 | allejo | let me try with RC2 |
| 04:58.21 | Constitution | your fonts are very strange :P |
| 04:58.50 | blast007 | you're just holding the screenshot wrong |
| 04:58.55 | allejo | ^ |
| 04:59.23 | allejo | nope doesn't happen in RC2 |
| 04:59.45 | Constitution | grr |
| 05:00.28 | Constitution | wonder if we can just disable the green button |
| 05:01.13 | allejo | would it be difficult to just have bzflag always go to OS X's fullscreen instead of its own version? |
| 05:03.04 | Constitution | probably... we use SDL's functions, and we would probably have to do something more low-level for that |
| 05:05.13 | Constitution | with RC2, after the last F1, did it go back to the standard 640x480? |
| 05:06.31 | allejo | nope, resized to kill my screen minus the menu bar |
| 05:06.50 | blast007 | fill* ? |
| 05:07.23 | the_map | kill makes sense |
| 05:07.23 | allejo | ^ yes |
| 05:07.27 | allejo | ! |
| 05:07.32 | allejo | yes, fill* |
| 05:08.20 | the_map | :P |
| 05:10.18 | Constitution | or, we could just go back to what we had before |
| 05:11.44 | blast007 | Constitution: what if you get rid of SDL_WINDOW_RESIZABLE in SDL2Window.cxx, replacing it with 0 |
| 05:11.55 | blast007 | then it wouldn't have resize options when windowed |
| 05:13.46 | Constitution | the problem doesn't happen when it's windowed |
| 05:14.18 | Constitution | the problem happens when it's switching between the two kinds of fullscreen |
| 05:15.20 | the_map | two kinds of fullscreen? |
| 05:15.44 | blast007 | isn't that only possible because you're allowing the window to be resized? |
| 05:16.17 | Constitution | probably because I made it filter out the resize event (since toggling fullscreen was making SDL throw an extra resize event, which threw everything off) |
| 05:17.17 | Constitution | blast007: it's in fullscreen... (fullScreen ? SDL_WINDOW_FULLSCREEN : SDL_WINDOW_RESIZABLE) |
| 05:17.27 | blast007 | yes |
| 05:17.32 | blast007 | change SDL_WINDOW_RESIZABLE to 0 |
| 05:18.36 | Constitution | oh I see |
| 05:18.59 | Constitution | that does make the green button go away |
| 05:19.04 | blast007 | we don't allow resizing on Windows either - we just have a close button |
| 05:19.40 | Constitution | resizing has worked fine on mac up until now |
| 05:20.58 | Constitution | I guess that's one option... I'll look at it tomorrow |
| 05:40.10 | kaadmy | is there a way around being able to make your callsign "something (motto)/ST"? |
| 05:41.31 | allejo | IP ban typically |
| 05:41.47 | kaadmy | heh |
| 05:42.25 | kaadmy | maybe a regex check to prevent fake mottos/@ or + chars i names |
| 05:42.53 | blast007 | nope, an IP ban |
| 05:43.19 | blast007 | not everything problem needs a super technical solution |
| 05:44.44 | kaadmy | i thought the sarcasm stayed locked up in the other looney house? |
| 05:45.18 | blast007 | what sarcasm? |
| 05:45.26 | the_map | which, I note, you're hanging out in |
| 05:45.28 | blast007 | we're being serious |
| 05:46.07 | allejo | ^ |
| 05:47.57 | allejo | allowing something like that does not cause any problems |
| 05:48.06 | kaadmy | just irritating. |
| 05:48.12 | allejo | the only thing is it would confuse people with the scoreboard |
| 05:48.26 | allejo | then hide the scoreboard |
| 05:48.55 | kaadmy | "Shot by bob (red team) (blue team) (rogue)" |
| 05:49.13 | kaadmy | i've tried that, it works |
| 05:50.36 | blast007 | so? |
| 05:51.05 | blast007 | are they violating the rules of whatever server they are on? |
| 05:51.27 | allejo | is their callsign preventing an admin from taking action should they break a rule? |
| 05:51.50 | allejo | does their callsign allow them to bypass bans? |
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| 09:41.38 | Delusional | I got a RC2 report of zero keyboard functionality using japanese locality, MAC |
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| 14:01.14 | blast007 | Delusional: did that work with 2.4.2? |
| 14:17.40 | Delusional | i did ask that, and he said yes |
| 14:18.31 | Delusional | i may have mistated about locality though⦠nout BZâs japanes locality, the keyboardâs. |
| 14:19.06 | Delusional | in the macâs kb prefs |
| 14:36.54 | blast007 | right |
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| 16:26.21 | Constitution | allejo: please try that |
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| 16:26.28 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15macsforme pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/commit/31d30d748005061076be37c6fc240ba43b193363 |
| 16:26.28 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 1431d30d7 15Joshua Bodine: Add back window resize events generated from switching from windowed to "native" fullscreen to SDL fullscreen and back to windowed so the window content ends up being the right size. |
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| 16:58.53 | Constitution | blast007: after tweaking some settings I can generally get 15-30 fps on my raspberry pi... there are only certain situations (usually when there are a bunch of shots in the scene) where it slows way down |
| 16:59.08 | blast007 | nice |
| 16:59.30 | Constitution | it has some weird artifacts sometimes too, like after spawns... so maybe if some bugs are fixed, a usable raspberry pi port would be within reach |
| 17:00.33 | Constitution | once we get 2.4.4 out I'll post the code somewhere and let others hack on it too |
| 17:02.22 | Constitution | when playing, there is pretty high jitter, though... I bet some multithreading would help out a lot, since the pi 2 has four cores |
| 17:03.40 | blast007 | was that with a wired connection? |
| 17:04.00 | Constitution | no, wifi |
| 17:04.08 | Constitution | that's a good point |
| 17:04.11 | blast007 | I'd try it with wired to compare |
| 17:04.28 | blast007 | could be agressive power management on the wifi |
| 17:04.41 | blast007 | (or just wifi being wifi) |
| 17:05.13 | Constitution | the ping is pretty flat, though |
| 17:05.16 | Constitution | rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 21.480/24.468/34.294/3.209 ms |
| 17:05.50 | Constitution | still, I'll try it |
| 17:07.36 | Constitution | the nice thing is that the framerate doesn't seem to be affected much by the resolution... only 4-5 fps difference between 320x240 and 1680x1050 |
| 17:08.28 | blast007 | so CPU limited then |
| 17:09.46 | Constitution | still about 200ms jitter on ethernet |
| 17:10.13 | blast007 | hmm, okay |
| 17:10.15 | Constitution | and of course, showing the console costs about 20 fps |
| 17:10.37 | blast007 | our font system is hella slow |
| 17:10.50 | Constitution | hmm, yeah I'm getting a nice solid 30 fps just driving around, though |
| 17:12.55 | Constitution | I wonder if there's anything with a high CPU cost that could be semi-easily offloaded to another thread |
| 17:30.53 | blast007 | or the other way around, taking something that isn't particularly CPU intensive but is time sensitive (like network code) and moving that to a thread |
| 17:51.19 | Constitution | if I turn all effects off, I get a solid 30 FPS |
| 17:51.24 | Constitution | that's promising |
| 17:51.44 | Constitution | (without the console or scoreboard showing, of course) |
| 17:52.36 | Constitution | in observer in a 3vs3 ducati match |
| 17:53.29 | Constitution | it only slows a little when there's an explosion right in your face |
| 17:54.04 | Constitution | apocalypse gets about 5-7 solid |
| 17:55.31 | Constitution | still 300ms jitt though :( |
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| 18:07.48 | Constitution | and my GCW Zero gets 30-60 with the effects turned off |
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| 18:25.10 | Constitution | yeah, it's definitely playable... just did a ducati fm... everyone said the connection seemed fine, but lagstats showed several hundred milliseconds of jitter |
| 18:38.51 | blast007 | how well does a 3.5" 320x240 display work for BZFlag? |
| 18:40.35 | the_map | for the pi or for playing? :) |
| 18:41.13 | blast007 | the_map: for playing on the GCW Zero: http://www.gcw-zero.com/specifications |
| 18:41.30 | the_map | oh |
| 18:45.28 | Constitution | I meant the raspberry pi was playable... although the gcw zero was in observer mode and kept up just fine |
| 18:45.37 | Constitution | the radar does get a little pixelated |
| 18:46.06 | Constitution | (on the gcw zero) |
| 18:48.15 | Constitution | but since performance was a big issue before, finding playable settings is very pleasing |
| 18:55.10 | op90- | wifi has higher packetloss, if part of the communication goes over tcp, you;ll have retransmissions and hence jitter |
| 18:55.43 | op90- | wifi has higher packetloss, if part of the communication goes over tcp, you;ll have retransmissions and hence jitter |
| 18:57.26 | op90- | sorry for the double line. terminal froze |
| 18:58.35 | blast007 | op90-: sounded like there was high jitter over ethernet as well |
| 19:00.38 | blast007 | (on the Pi, the Ethernet is also done over a USB interface as it's part of the USB hub chip, which itself connects to the single USB line that the SoC provides) |
| 19:00.47 | op90- | Not quite. On my laptap, using wifi, though ssh-ed into my raspberrypi which is running the irc client |
| 19:00.52 | Constitution | my gcw zero gets high jitter sometimes as well (40-70), but only when the framerate is really low... not at all sure why the raspberry pi would have it worse |
| 19:01.39 | blast007 | Constitution: I'd be curious if a background ping would get higher jitter while the game is running (or even just while the CPU is under a lot of load) |
| 19:02.55 | Constitution | nope |
| 19:02.57 | Constitution | rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 19.961/20.755/21.386/0.368 ms |
| 19:03.30 | blast007 | so then it's probably something with how our network code is working on the Pi |
| 19:04.07 | blast007 | or I should say it's *maybe* something with that |
| 19:04.17 | blast007 | there's a lot of possible factors with networking :) |
| 19:05.06 | op90- | Should be able to pinpoint what it is with some testing. |
| 19:05.25 | Constitution | I would guess the background ping uses a different CPU core... I would have to guess it is indeed a CPU usage issue |
| 19:07.14 | blast007 | still, if you're getting 30 FPS, that should be enough to have a fairly low jitter |
| 19:08.18 | blast007 | a packet capture from the server-side might tell you a bit about the situation as well |
| 19:08.29 | Constitution | yeah |
| 19:11.42 | blast007 | "It is good practice to draw as many vertices using as few batches as possible. Doing so will usually improve the application's rendering performance." based on a short game session (a few minutes), 55.7% of our batches have one vertice (3.5% of vertices), 6.94% have 2 (0.87% of vertices), and 29.29 have 4 (7.37% of vertices), all of which show a little warning icon in gDEBugger GL |
| 19:17.59 | blast007 | we also made 1826 context-bound function calls without a context |
| 19:27.25 | blast007 | per frame, we average 169 redundant state changes (and 1372 good state changes) |
| 19:27.44 | blast007 | heh, some of our state change function calls are 100 redundant |
| 19:29.19 | blast007 | 100% redundant calls are 2832 to glTexEnvi, 734 to glLighti, 256 to glGexGenfv, 256 to glTexGeni, 108 to glFogfv, 9 to glLineStipple and glPolygonStipple, 8 to glViewport, 3 to glClearColor, 2 to glClearDepth |
| 19:29.58 | blast007 | glStencilFunc and glStencilOp have 1 effective call and 229 redundant calls |
| 19:30.15 | blast007 | glLightf has 14 effective calls and 2188 redundant calls |
| 19:35.54 | Constitution | I've experimented a little bit with a state cache object that eliminates redundant state changes... I didn't see any marked improvement in framerate |
| 19:38.39 | blast007 | what kind of system were you testing that on? a system where you're already getting hundreds of FPS, or one where you're getting 15 to 30? |
| 19:47.12 | Constitution | both, I think |
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| 20:02.48 | allejo | Constitution, will test when I get home |
| 20:23.54 | Constitution | blast007: it didn't do all of those, though... I think just glEnable/Disable and glEnable/DisableClientState |
| 20:26.53 | blast007 | I did eliminate a glGetBooleanv and two calls to glDepthMask from FontManager::drawString() that gets called on each chunk of text (divided up by ANSI codes) with no apparent ill effect in a quick test |
| 20:28.13 | Constitution | we do have some GL calls that just set the default values, even though we don't deviate from that (or if we do, rarely) |
| 20:35.42 | Constitution | do you know what a "batch" referred to in your quote? is that like sending vertices in immediate mode versus sending them in arrays? |
| 20:40.25 | alpha1-2 | "ANSI codes"! |
| 20:41.25 | alpha1-2 | what are you talking about? |
| 20:42.47 | Constitution | text colors |
| 20:42.58 | alpha1-2 | oh, I'm interested |
| 20:43.39 | alpha1-2 | what are you trying to do? |
| 20:45.34 | blast007 | Constitution: http://www.gremedy.com/webhelp/viewers_statistics_viewer_vertex_batch_statistics_view.htm |
| 20:46.49 | blast007 | https://www.opengl.org/wiki/Vertex_Specification_Best_Practices |
| 20:47.52 | blast007 | I don't know what all functions are related to that though |
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| 20:59.35 | alpha1-2 | Constitution: what are you trying to do about text colors? |
| 20:59.55 | Constitution | nothing, alpha1-2 |
| 21:00.06 | Constitution | we are just discussing ways to optimize rendering calls |
| 21:00.45 | alpha1-2 | to improve graphics in any way maybe? |
| 21:00.58 | Constitution | blast007: interesting... have a screenshot of how ours looks? |
| 21:01.46 | alpha1-2 | to upgrade/improve OpenGL use? |
| 21:24.12 | blast007 | alpha1-2: to improve performance |
| 21:25.03 | Constitution | here's a video showing performance on the raspberry pi (even before I turned all the effects off): http://fairserve.net/~josh/bzflag/embedded/raspberrypi1.mov |
| 21:32.47 | blast007 | that's definitely a playable FPS :) |
| 21:33.43 | blast007 | let me run through gDEBugger again to get some screenshots or exports for you, Constitution |
| 21:35.47 | Constitution | thanks |
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| 21:39.32 | alpha1-2 | Constitution: you should use OGV (OGG Theora) or any one similar for videos :P |
| 21:40.13 | Constitution | or, you could install the quicktime codec |
| 21:41.24 | alpha1-2 | oh I always have had problems with propietary codecs (QT, RT, etc.) |
| 21:41.55 | blast007 | I got different results this time, either because I might have been in a different mode, or just a different map |
| 21:42.18 | blast007 | Constitution: would you prefer screenshots, or CSV exports? |
| 21:42.41 | Constitution | screenshots are fine |
| 21:59.54 | blast007 | Constitution: http://static.bzexcess.com/bzflag_performance/test01/ |
| 21:59.58 | blast007 | (I did both) :) |
| 22:03.32 | Constitution | thanks |
| 22:05.44 | Constitution | heh, 95% deprecated functions |
| 22:06.18 | blast007 | based on OpenGL 3.1, yes :) |
| 22:07.08 | blast007 | well, deprecated in 3.0, removed in 3.1 |
| 23:05.56 | *** join/#bzflag zuii (~akos@BC06BF93.catv.pool.telekom.hu) |
| 23:14.59 | *** join/#bzflag Flak18 (~Flak18@2001:558:6030:27:cdbc:d363:dd9e:f5c3) |