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| 13:24.32 | alpha1-2 | blast007: regarding to this http://infobot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20150907.html.gz , about C/C++ code, I am not sure what is your worrying, but it seems you think those languages are not safe or a good option to develop a HTTP server (or any other system exposed to the web (for security concerns))? |
| 13:41.58 | alpha1-2 | Well, I am really interested on this topic. Based in my long experience (including some strong and long University's academic discussions about the pros and cons of C/C++ vs. Java - I was teaching them for a long time), what I can say is that I still don't see any really danger on developing in C/C++, but really the opposite. This, apart of considering *all the inmense* amount of programs/systems made and being made on them, running from |
| 13:42.00 | alpha1-2 | long time now, still running and doing it for the unknown future, and with a very good performance. I don't really know why people keep teaching they are not safe or they became useless/"old" already :/ |
| 13:52.08 | alpha1-2 | Also, those tools/programs you mentioned ("like fastmap, webStats, and webReport") are no being used by strayers' kind of services, maybe? I know they are external ones but, maybe there can be internal ones also like BulletCatcher mentioned ("HTTP is the obvious protocol for providing server info to non-game clients.")? I'm not sure but bzadmin, for example? |
| 13:53.18 | alpha1-2 | note that external ones are good to be considered in some way too, though |
| 13:59.27 | alpha1-2 | *some people keep teaching* |
| 14:12.39 | blast007 | alpha1-2: my concern is both for our HTTP server and for the plugins people make using our HTTP server API |
| 14:14.35 | blast007 | "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg." |
| 14:15.00 | blast007 | and why would strayer's site have anything to do with this? |
| 14:33.09 | alpha1-2 | about HTTP issue, to make it safer, I think what BulletCatcher proposed (and you agreed) could be a good solution (I didn't researched it deeply, though) |
| 14:33.11 | alpha1-2 | about that phrase, this is a explanation by himself: "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off". Yes, I said something like that (in 1986 or so). What people tend to miss, is that what I said there about C++ is to a varying extent true for all powerful languages. As you protect people from simple dangers, they get themselves into new and less obvious problems. Someone |
| 14:33.12 | alpha1-2 | who avoids the simple problems may simply be heading for a not-so-simple one. One problem with very supporting and protective environments is that the hard problems may be discovered too late or be too hard to remedy once discovered. Also, a rare problem is harder to find than a frequent one because you don't suspect it." http://www.stroustrup.com/bs_faq.html . Also, he created C++, not C, what was precedent. |
| 14:33.14 | alpha1-2 | Then, strayer's site/others external similar ones doesn't use them, okay, just wondering. And bzadmin? |
| 14:33.40 | alpha1-2 | don't* |
| 14:36.24 | alpha1-2 | some think that phrase was an advertisement one by himself too |
| 14:37.18 | alpha1-2 | I think C/C++ are very powerful languages, you just have to take care of make a good quality code, like always |
| 14:37.30 | alpha1-2 | making* |
| 14:40.26 | alpha1-2 | there are also smart pointers implemented lately, which seem to calm some "concerns", but I have not researched them very well still (I am not of those worried PPL) |
| 15:19.31 | blast007 | bzadmin uses the game protocol just like the graphical clien' |
| 15:19.33 | blast007 | client* |
| 15:22.00 | blast007 | as does strayer's site |
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| 18:22.50 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15macsforme pushed 1 new commit to 062.4: 02http://git.io/vZrp6 |
| 18:22.50 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14c2573a6 15Joshua Bodine: Removed webStats and webReport from Xcode also. |
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| 18:23.04 | Constitution | really I wish we didn't package plugins with the main source tree at all... kind of a pain :P |
| 18:24.13 | Constitution | how do we stand on 2.4.4? |
| 18:32.34 | Constitution | I will help with the documentation update... I suppose that should be finished prior to our first RC release? |
| 18:40.35 | blast007 | some of it could be, yes - other parts of the docs aren't so critical |
| 18:40.49 | blast007 | we should at least have the information about how to build all up to date |
| 18:41.26 | blast007 | I was finishing up a minor check in configure.ac that makes sure libcurl has SSL support |
| 18:41.50 | Constitution | claims "not it" on BeOS, IRIX, and Solaris |
| 18:42.17 | blast007 | well, okay, for Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX ;) |
| 18:43.09 | blast007 | doubt we still build on IRIX, and Solaris is even questionable |
| 18:43.37 | Constitution | Mac OS X should be up-to-date |
| 18:46.48 | Constitution | I don't think anything in Linux changed, although since we suggest installing the SDL packages we should probably also suggest running configure with --with-SDL... or is that already default? |
| 18:49.16 | blast007 | we added --enable-custom-plugins for Linux (and other platforms that use autotools) |
| 18:49.34 | blast007 | and configure will build with SDL 1.x automatically if it's found |
| 18:50.39 | blast007 | as in, no need to pass anything to configure for SDL1 |
| 19:00.54 | Constitution | the linux readme doesn't mention building with plugins |
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| 19:56.00 | BZnotify | [13bzflag] 15JMakey pushed 2 new commits to 062.4: 02http://git.io/vZoWd |
| 19:56.00 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14885b3f6 15Jeff Makey: Use expanded RCS Id string from upstream so autogen.sh can show its version. |
| 19:56.00 | BZnotify | 13bzflag/062.4 14cdcf8ad 15Jeff Makey: Rework --enable-custom-plugins to make better use of AC_ARG_ENABLE features.... |
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| 19:56.52 | BulletCatcher | configure --enable-custom-plugins-file has been added for allejo. |
| 19:57.44 | BulletCatcher | I still build bzfs and bzadmin on Solaris. |
| 19:58.56 | BulletCatcher | I am confident that it would take a lot of effort to compile 2.4 on IRIX and BeOS. |
| 20:00.43 | the_map | what about ms-dos? |
| 20:01.01 | allejo | ~BulletCatcher++ |
| 20:01.01 | BulletCatcher | Try it and let us know, the_map. |
| 20:01.13 | the_map | actually, I think a text/ascii art version of bzflag would be pretty cool |
| 20:03.41 | BulletCatcher | Or the text adventure version: "Your blue tank has spawned on your team base. To the north you see 3 red tanks moving toward you." |
| 20:03.53 | the_map | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:17.12 | allejo | "All three shots miss" |
| 20:20.10 | the_map | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:21.09 | allejo | "You've been kicked for UDP. Please ensure UDP is enabled on your end" |
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| 23:04.34 | Constitution | for any Portal lovers, DeadCore is $2.49 on steam today |
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