IRC log for #bzflag on 20130613

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03:16.51JeffMwheeeeee I iz a game developer, I gots a spinning camera
03:19.01allejowheeeeee
03:20.05allejohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al20AFLf4n8
03:23.17JeffMhttps://plus.google.com/u/0/108274129107930283498/posts/GtgST8Mn4dU
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04:34.05*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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04:34.22short_circuitEver get that sinking feeling that you just executed a script that didn't get told which MBR to modify after the fact? This might be my last boot on this install X~D
04:35.05khonkhortisanYou can burn a mbr fixer onto a flash drive
04:35.46short_circuitI think I just destroyed my install on this machine though.... Like.. Perhaps I should run the grub fixing thinger before I go to bed
04:36.09short_circuityep... usbstick is unmodified... root file system... in jeapordy
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04:53.19swiggMeh; mbr's are easy to fixxxxxxxx
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07:18.53*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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08:05.42*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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08:27.19*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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15:01.39*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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15:04.45Notify03BZFlag:SfsHome * 0 /User:SfsHome:
15:44.15Notify03BZFlag:SfsHome * 8688 /User:SfsHome: Created page with "'''Booking Into Deluxe Hotels in Trivandrum''' Are you looking for the ideal place to spend a vacation with your family or travelling for business in Kerala? Then search no m..."
15:45.33BulletCatcheris shocked
15:45.36Notify03BZFlag:Bullet Catcher * 0 /User:SfsHome: Vandalism: spam
15:46.24Notify03BZFlag:Bullet Catcher * 0 /User:SfsHome: Spamming links to external sites
15:47.46blast007hehehe, I was waiting for it :)
15:47.52tw1stedI've always wanted to go to Kerala...
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16:40.18*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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17:22.49BulletCatcherI was thinking about the tutorial feature in the 2.6 roadmap, and discovered it isn't hard to make it so any click on the main menu page goes to the Help page.
17:22.51BulletCatcherDoes that seem like a step in the right direction?
17:27.50khonkhortisanif the mouse won't navigate the menu
17:28.25BulletCatcherMouse clicks on the menu pages are currently ignored completely.
17:28.39blast007BulletCatcher: no, I think it should let them click on the actual menu items if anything ;)
17:28.43khonkhortisanand with good reason
17:28.54JeffMif we have a cursor you should be able to click on things
17:29.01JeffMbringing up the help menu would seem broken
17:29.04blast007having it just go to the help screen would just seem like a bug
17:29.06JeffMether remove the cursor or make it work
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17:30.58BulletCatcherOkay, then I need to be able to figure out *where* they have clicked.
17:31.11khonkhortisanI wish you luck in your endeavor.
17:32.25BulletCatcherI'm sure I can get the X/Y coordinates on the screen, but I suspect it will be more difficult to map that to menu items.
17:32.26blast007some of our UI elements would also not be mouse friendly as it stands
17:33.03JeffMI'd like to see a move to more traditional buttons and GUI elements
17:33.07khonkhortisanI remember there was a problem with the width of left-aligned text vs centered text
17:33.30JeffMcan we just move to somethign like CGGUI?
17:33.40JeffMthere are a number of other GUI systems out there
17:33.51khonkhortisanI think centered text only gave half width, so I had to add the width on the left side, which made me able to click left-aligned text far to the left
17:34.04blast007we'd want one that works with FTGL, right>
17:34.06blast007?*
17:34.21JeffManother GUI system would probalby replace the font system
17:34.26JeffMand probably use FTGL
17:34.38JeffMa number of thigns use it or things like it
17:34.39*** join/#bzflag swigg_ (~swigg@68-119-228-196.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com)
17:34.50JeffMFTGL was just the one that dropped into our current system easiest
17:34.58JeffMCGGUI is used by ogre and others
17:35.07blast007CEGUI*
17:35.26JeffMwhy was I think it was Crazy Gary....
17:38.08BulletCatcherShort of a major redesign, which should wait until 2.6, I was just thinking that there may be something simple we can do in 2.4 that will help guide new players to the fact that they must use keys, rather than the mouse, to navigate the menus.
17:38.27khonkhortisanCrazy Eddy?
17:38.34JeffMturn off the cursor when the menu is up
17:38.38JeffMthat's the simplest thing
17:38.42JeffMthen it's clear NO CLICKY
17:38.51khonkhortisan*turn off the cursor when the menu is up and you're not connected to a server
17:38.52JeffMturn it into a + in game
17:39.03JeffMno turn it off when the menu is up
17:39.08JeffMno clicky ;)
17:39.36JeffMif you are menuing you should not be playing, right?
17:39.38blast007when the menu is up, you shouldn't be able to move
17:39.49JeffMyou can't if you are key driver
17:39.52blast007currently if you use mouse or gamepad you can
17:39.53JeffMso make it the same for mouse
17:39.54blast007yeah
17:39.54DTRemenak|RDPyou'll piss off a lot of people if you remove the ability to dodge while in the menu
17:40.12JeffMthen make it a +
17:40.14khonkhortisanI do use the menu while playing a little bit
17:40.19JeffMand off when not connected
17:40.24blast007DTRemenak|RDP: but we piss off a lot of people with every release ;)
17:40.30JeffMsilly metagamers
17:40.53blast007what things do players use in the menu while playing?
17:40.54JeffMor dissconnect on menu :)
17:41.03JeffMlook for better games
17:41.07JeffMthat's my guess
17:41.18blast007yeah, that's the only thing I can think of (as that's the only thing I do)
17:41.29khonkhortisanfps give a little keyboard symbol over your head when in the menu
17:41.33JeffMauto pause
17:41.47JeffMkhonkhortisan, that's when you are chatting too
17:42.12khonkhortisanofc the auto pause would have the same delay as regular pause
17:42.31JeffMfor now to not piss anyone off, turn it off when not connected at the minium, then see if we can make it a +
17:42.38JeffMthen it's clear it's not a clicky cursor
17:42.58alezakosPeople may be saving the world or testing their graphics options while in-game
17:43.01JeffMI don't know how cursor loads work on the different platforms
17:43.03DTRemenak|RDPkhonkhortisan: most fps' are not one-hit-kill.  if you take damage in the menu, you are notified and can return to the game in time to do something about it.  in bzflag there is no margin for error.
17:43.12JeffMalezakos, WHILE playing?
17:43.20alezakosYup
17:43.21khonkhortisanyou also have a radar to see shots coming
17:43.22JeffMadust when you are dead :)
17:43.28BulletCatcherOkay, I'll look into making the cursor disappear.
17:43.30khonkhortisanunless it's st or L
17:43.45JeffMBulletCatcher, SDL has a method for it, I know the one for windows
17:43.53JeffMit's the others you will have to research
17:44.12blast007the others we could just stub for now
17:44.17JeffMif it's not part of platform we should add it, then everyone can implement it
17:44.17JeffMyeah
17:44.25JeffMjust make it a virtual method
17:44.26blast007windows and SDL are the two main platforms that get used
17:44.46khonkhortisanI'm an SDL. I'm a PC
17:48.25BulletCatcherNext question: why is src/common/bzsignal.c not compiled with the C++ compiler?
17:48.29BulletCatcherIt has been a C file since it was first added to the repo.
17:48.30BulletCatcherSimply renaming it to .cxx seems to make no difference on Linux.
17:48.58JeffMwhat does it do?
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17:49.35BulletCatcherIt isolates system-specific details of signal handling.
17:50.22JeffMI have no idea why it's done that way
17:52.13BulletCatcherThen I'll change it to C++ after I confirm that it doesn't break the Mac.
17:52.38BulletCatcherIt's the only C file in our own code.
17:59.28BulletCatcherLast question for now: any objection to removing the BZ_BUILD_DATE macro method of specifying the software build date in buildDate.cxx?
17:59.33BulletCatcherWe don't have any other support (e.g., in configure) for it.
17:59.35BulletCatcherThat would leave our __DATE__ macro derived method as the One True Way of determining the build date.
18:04.21DTRemenak|RDPBulletCatcher: the __DATE__ method is older; you should ask Tim why he added the other method (the commit message just says what, not why).
18:07.48BulletCatcherTimRiker, any thoughts on that?
18:07.52DTRemenak|RDPI suppose you could ask him why bzsignal.c is C too, but I don't think there's any harm in changing that.
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20:11.01*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version
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20:54.30TimRikerbzsignal.c is in C because there was some issue with some older version of MSC that messed up signal handling. It's probably been fixed long ago. I'm fine with moving it.
20:55.40TimRiker__DATE__ gives you the compile date, right? and not the code snapshot date. There was a time when the date was the code snapshot date and a tarball rebuilt later would still show the original date and not the compile date.
20:57.18TimRikerThat's probably broken now. If I take a two year old snapshot and build it, the one date either says only when built, or only when the sources were snapshotted. some people want one, and some the other.
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23:02.27swigg_One day, Snake12534 will be chief dev on BZ
23:02.50kierraomg, hope i'm dead and gone
23:03.06kierraactually, snake needs a mentor....I nominate brad
23:03.11swigg_It will be when the 'Star Wars' world is our world
23:03.36khonkhortisansnake thinks I'm better than him now
23:03.51swigg_Well you sure as heck are!
23:04.02alpha1-2We will play BZ *Star* Flag then :), with flying tanks and all ...
23:04.14swigg_heck, all it takes is a pulse and a single brainwave
23:06.04khonkhortisanhidden hills with WG+L
23:06.46alpha1-2brad + Snake = KABOOM lol
23:08.00alpha1-2yes, khon :)
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