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| 03:07.47 | Flash | Core 2 duo can run 10.7 (just checked) |
| 03:20.43 | L4m3r | sweet! |
| 03:21.01 | L4m3r | installs 10.7 on his 5 year old laptop |
| 03:22.46 | Flash | However, my MBP is feeling a bit long in the tooth... thinking about getting a new 'puter |
| 03:23.55 | L4m3r | I'm planning to do a new build as soon as the new Intel chips hit Newegg |
| 03:24.47 | L4m3r | the lappy is secondary; it can rot a bit longer... the desktop is 6+ years old and ready for HTPC duty (and my Athlon XP-based HTPC just died, conveniently) |
| 03:27.01 | Flash | my laptop IS my desktop |
| 03:27.09 | Flash | I'm thinking about fixing that |
| 03:30.28 | L4m3r | I wish I had time to build a new case :P |
| 03:33.45 | L4m3r | or some extra cash... I had a nice idea the other day |
| 03:34.26 | L4m3r | I have three extra Chieftec 601 (aka "dragon") cases in the garage. it occurred to me that one of them would look sick if I had it chromed. :P |
| 03:35.20 | Flash | that would be a waste of money... cases belong under the desk |
| 03:36.38 | L4m3r | if you're going to go that route, you should just build the PC into the desk |
| 03:36.58 | Flash | no... to hard to take it out when you want to upgrade |
| 03:36.59 | L4m3r | less dust and more ventilation (because you designed it that way) |
| 03:37.24 | Flash | I have a desk with a tower cabinet, but I don't think I'll be buying another tower |
| 03:37.45 | L4m3r | only slightly harder if you do it right- removable mobo tray and access panels and such |
| 03:38.16 | Flash | now you are talking build-your-own rack (desk) |
| 03:39.20 | L4m3r | you could certainly go to such an extent if desired, but I assume that you have an exsting desk with some aesthetic constraints :P |
| 03:45.33 | L4m3r | I just don't like to put cases in confined spaces, as it is generally bad for airflow |
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| 04:14.00 | jeffm | but blast007, he's 13 he knows everything |
| 04:15.46 | CIA-104 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501@gmail.com * r193 10/trunk/unit0/client/Input.cs: stipid macintosh not reporting buttons. |
| 04:26.30 | Delusional | did you say i should cd to the client directory before running? or client/bin/debug? |
| 04:28.43 | Constitution | blast007, also don't forget to print the entire bzflag source code so you can learn it |
| 04:33.33 | jeffm | cd to the dir |
| 04:33.45 | jeffm | and put the contents of the dependency zip in there |
| 04:34.41 | jeffm | man setting mail up on this is slow |
| 04:40.52 | Delusional | ... the debug dir |
| 04:41.01 | Delusional | and I have a window CONNECTING |
| 04:42.01 | Delusional | i guess now i need to set up a server at port 2501 |
| 04:42.49 | jeffm | the server executable will host on that by default IIRC |
| 04:42.57 | jeffm | doesn't remember if it has a default config or not |
| 04:43.19 | jeffm | also have no idea if iron python works on osx |
| 04:43.26 | jeffm | haven't tried it yet |
| 04:51.01 | jeffm | not that it will do anything when you connect other then send the world file |
| 04:51.50 | Delusional | I guessed and put copies of all the dependencies in the gameInstance/bin/debug dir... I connected, now i can see the ground and sky |
| 04:52.02 | jeffm | cool |
| 04:52.06 | jeffm | does it show a hud? |
| 04:52.33 | Flash | Delusional: what version are you on? |
| 04:53.05 | Delusional | there's a blank radar a chat window a fps display.. and I guess that's the hud is in the upper right corner |
| 04:53.11 | jeffm | cool |
| 04:53.15 | jeffm | then the scripts ran |
| 04:53.15 | Delusional | lion |
| 04:53.27 | jeffm | those are all defined by python scripts and not hardcoded in the game :) |
| 04:53.39 | jeffm | the server told the client to add those |
| 04:53.40 | Delusional | there's a sheild and a bullet |
| 04:53.44 | jeffm | yep |
| 04:53.46 | jeffm | sweet |
| 04:53.54 | Flash | don't know what iron python is, but python works great on OSX |
| 04:54.05 | jeffm | the idea is that if a game script needs to add a new GUI it can just add it to the scripts |
| 04:54.17 | jeffm | iron python is a C# implementation of python |
| 04:54.23 | jeffm | so it can call managed code |
| 04:54.30 | jeffm | and be imbedded in apps very easy |
| 04:54.58 | jeffm | the server and client each have a set of scripts that define how the "game" part works |
| 04:55.39 | jeffm | how does one take a screenshot on OSX? |
| 04:55.58 | Delusional | shift option 3 |
| 04:55.59 | Flash | I use Grab |
| 04:56.06 | Flash | but that works too |
| 04:56.22 | Delusional | err.. shift apple-3 |
| 04:56.31 | Delusional | not option |
| 04:56.49 | Flash | http://guides.macrumors.com/Taking_Screenshots_in_Mac_OS_X#Shortcuts |
| 04:57.33 | Delusional | the file appears on the desktop |
| 04:58.22 | jeffm | wonders if filezilla exists on the tosh |
| 04:58.45 | Flash | yes |
| 04:58.58 | jeffm | Delusional: when it said connecting, did it have some graphic crap above the text? |
| 04:59.39 | Delusional | three periods... flashing |
| 04:59.51 | Delusional | one two three.. zero.. one two three |
| 05:00.03 | jeffm | let me post a screenie |
| 05:00.07 | Delusional | took thirty seconds to connect |
| 05:00.09 | jeffm | I get some undesired crap |
| 05:00.18 | jeffm | but I may have crap video |
| 05:00.30 | jeffm | yeah the server takes a while to startup |
| 05:00.48 | Delusional | the window resizes ncely... i dont suppose i can move at all |
| 05:00.56 | jeffm | not yet |
| 05:01.07 | jeffm | first connect takes a while too, it has to cache the map and scripts |
| 05:03.20 | jeffm | http://www.opencombat.net/unit0/Screen%20Shot%202012-04-24%20at%209.57.48%20PM.png |
| 05:03.25 | jeffm | that's what mine looks like |
| 05:03.38 | jeffm | and I get those single pixel artifacts above the text |
| 05:03.45 | Delusional | oh yeah.. there's a moving graphic behind the word Loading.... it looks good |
| 05:03.54 | jeffm | not that |
| 05:04.26 | Delusional | yeah i see that... |
| 05:04.28 | jeffm | in that screenshot it's the vertical lines between the test |
| 05:04.39 | Delusional | and above localhost:2501 |
| 05:04.41 | jeffm | you see those vertical lines too? |
| 05:04.56 | Delusional | no |
| 05:05.02 | jeffm | ok |
| 05:05.03 | Delusional | only horizontal ones |
| 05:05.11 | jeffm | that move or don't move? |
| 05:05.12 | Delusional | above each letter |
| 05:05.17 | jeffm | ok |
| 05:05.19 | jeffm | that sucks then |
| 05:05.34 | jeffm | probably need to get someone to make a better font system at some point |
| 05:05.37 | jeffm | for fix openTK |
| 05:05.44 | Delusional | their colors change |
| 05:05.53 | jeffm | yeah they aren't supposed to |
| 05:06.00 | jeffm | linux and windows don't have tht |
| 05:06.35 | jeffm | but hey, same binary running on windows, linux, and OSX :) |
| 05:06.46 | jeffm | you could take your build, copy it to windows and double click it ;) |
| 05:07.20 | Delusional | it is an .exe |
| 05:07.24 | jeffm | yep |
| 05:07.42 | jeffm | you can also take it to ubuntu and double click it |
| 05:07.51 | jeffm | I'll have to wrap it up in a .app on osx for double click |
| 05:07.57 | jeffm | but that's not to hard they say |
| 05:08.03 | Flash | I was about to ask if that was possible |
| 05:09.18 | jeffm | yeah there are tools for that in monodev |
| 05:09.28 | jeffm | and ways to package mono into the frameworks of the .app |
| 05:09.39 | jeffm | so they can download a .app once, then I can patch it at runtime |
| 05:09.53 | jeffm | and just update the .net components we build |
| 05:10.06 | jeffm | so no releases |
| 05:10.23 | jeffm | when a feature is added to live, we just update the patch system and it pushes it out to everyone on next launch |
| 05:12.23 | jeffm | Constitution: how do you deal with these backwards command keys and mouse wheels! |
| 05:13.27 | Delusional | system prefs |
| 05:13.56 | jeffm | I didn't see a way to reverse it |
| 05:14.47 | jeffm | ahh you can reverse command and ctl, but not the mouse wheel |
| 05:15.10 | jeffm | that helps a bit |
| 05:15.26 | jeffm | can't get rid of that muscle memory for ctl + S |
| 05:16.14 | jeffm | I'm a little bummed that windows 8 has bad video drivers for this thing |
| 05:17.24 | Delusional | there are more mouse options in the universal access control panel, not the one you want though. |
| 05:18.02 | jeffm | probably going to have to buy a mouse for it anyway, maybe it'll have drivers |
| 05:18.21 | Flash | I really like the Microsoft Mouse |
| 05:18.22 | Delusional | drivers? what are drivers? |
| 05:18.32 | Flash | but I don't see a way to reverse the scroll wheel |
| 05:18.38 | jeffm | the things that apple doesn't write that make intel video suck |
| 05:19.33 | Delusional | on my mac... when I run a second screen, when the mouse is on the second screen, all the controls are reversed except pointer motion |
| 05:19.46 | Flash | not me |
| 05:20.00 | Flash | that's weird |
| 05:20.03 | jeffm | heh, apple won't let me have a second screen until I give them 40$ |
| 05:22.41 | Delusional | i could send you one of those adapters, i probbly have at least two of the one you need. |
| 05:22.55 | jeffm | the mini display port to hdmi? |
| 05:22.59 | Delusional | i have three kinds, at least two of each |
| 05:23.09 | Delusional | yep, got it |
| 05:23.10 | jeffm | amazon has them pretty cheap too |
| 05:23.16 | jeffm | I was going to just order one, thanks |
| 05:23.23 | Flash | Nice thing about my old MBP is it has a DVI connector |
| 05:23.31 | Flash | those mini things are annoying |
| 05:23.41 | jeffm | I have an adapter that will let me replace the optical with a real hard drive |
| 05:23.52 | jeffm | Flash: wasn't an option on this machine |
| 05:24.06 | Flash | yes, they stopped doing that a while ago |
| 05:24.21 | Delusional | server craps out after three join/leave cycles |
| 05:25.07 | jeffm | it's supposed to quit after a player parts |
| 05:25.17 | jeffm | it may not kill all the threads on the mac |
| 05:25.23 | jeffm | that's what i have to investigate |
| 05:25.51 | jeffm | is Pages any good for a word processor? |
| 05:25.57 | Flash | yes |
| 05:26.04 | jeffm | worth the 20$ |
| 05:26.06 | Flash | it's a better Word than Word |
| 05:26.07 | jeffm | ? |
| 05:26.13 | Flash | get the whole iLife package |
| 05:26.33 | Flash | Pages is better than Word; Keynote is better than Powerpoint; Numbers is tolerable |
| 05:26.53 | jeffm | I don't see iLife in the store |
| 05:27.07 | Flash | oops, I mean iWork |
| 05:27.16 | Flash | iLife is picture stuff |
| 05:27.25 | jeffm | nope |
| 05:27.39 | Flash | you looking at the app store? |
| 05:27.40 | jeffm | that just brings up the individual products |
| 05:27.42 | jeffm | yeah |
| 05:27.52 | Flash | probably they just bundled when they sold media |
| 05:27.54 | jeffm | cus apple hates disks it seems |
| 05:28.16 | jeffm | this thing didn't even come with install disks, the bios goes and gets lion of the interwebs |
| 05:28.18 | Delusional | they'll drag you kicking and screaming into the future |
| 05:28.46 | Flash | yeah, I'll have to upgrade to 10.6 so I can get the app store before I can upgrade to 10.7 |
| 05:29.14 | jeffm | I saw somewhere you could get 10,6 for free for that reason |
| 05:29.35 | Flash | the one article I read said you had to buy them both |
| 05:30.29 | Delusional | I should have stayed at 10.6. Almost all the features in 10.7 are designed for laptops and or tablet, even phone. I dont plan on getting any of those items, and upgrading was a bit of a hassle |
| 05:31.14 | jeffm | http://www.amsys.co.uk/2012/blog/free-10-6-upgrade-for-10-5-mobileme-users/ |
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| 12:58.20 | blast007 | Flash: they don't sell even, say, a flash drive of 10.7? |
| 12:59.30 | blast007 | bleh, seems even the flash drive version needs you to have 10.6 first .... |
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| 16:53.20 | Constitution | JeffM: I've never noticed the mouse wheel direction being different between mac and windows |
| 16:53.48 | JeffM | Constitution, on windows when I spin the wheel up the scrool bar goes up, on the mac it goes down |
| 16:54.12 | Constitution | eh... 10.7? |
| 16:54.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:54.49 | Constitution | I thought you could invert that in Mouse/Trackpad settings |
| 16:55.06 | JeffM | I'll have to look again |
| 16:55.11 | Constitution | though they changed the default to be more like swiping a touch screen phone, for some reason |
| 16:55.42 | Constitution | I think you have to uncheck the "natural direction" setting, or something like that... I'm still on 10.6 myself |
| 16:56.05 | JeffM | all I can do on the trackpad pannel is turn on/off various swipes |
| 16:57.28 | Constitution | http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20110704113843418 |
| 17:24.18 | Constitution | blast007, I think the flash drive 10.7 installer is standalone... at $70, it had better be |
| 17:25.01 | JeffM | so I guess apple's design is now 'we have market dominance in one sector, make all things fit that design!!!!" |
| 17:33.01 | blast007 | Constitution: it says it needs 10.6 right on the ordering page |
| 17:33.26 | blast007 | though it says to *upgrade* |
| 17:33.38 | blast007 | so a clean install might be possible without having 10.6 |
| 17:33.58 | blast007 | Constitution: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD256Z/A |
| 17:36.02 | blast007 | requirements list that you need 10.6 as well |
| 17:41.24 | Constitution | yeah I think you can do a clean install from the USB key... I thought that was the whole point, in case you can't use 10.6's app store |
| 17:42.15 | Constitution | I don't understand why people would pay $40 more for physical media, when you can buy a $10 USB key and make one yourself |
| 17:42.57 | blast007 | well.. they own a Mac, after all... |
| 17:43.17 | blast007 | and look, that flash drive has white plastic and an apple logo! it's so.. hip! |
| 17:43.46 | Constitution | zomg itz soooooo pretteh |
| 17:48.44 | blast007 | Constitution: not everyone has faster Internet, either. I think that's the main point of the USB option. |
| 17:49.35 | Constitution | true |
| 17:49.41 | blast007 | if you have fast internet, you'd just do the upgrade as the download, and make your own USB |
| 17:50.24 | Constitution | heck, I think it even lets you make a DVD installer |
| 17:50.48 | blast007 | which doesn't work on a newer mac mini without an additional drive ;) |
| 17:51.05 | blast007 | but why would you need an optical drive when you have the mac app store! |
| 17:51.08 | Constitution | heh... touch? |
| 18:02.53 | rathis | blast007: I can't remember the last time I needed an optical drive. |
| 18:03.44 | blast007 | I use them quite a bit |
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| 18:05.25 | blast007 | I mean, sure, I might create ISOs of my optical media and then use a virtual drive, but I still need an optical drive to make the ISO :) |
| 18:06.40 | blast007 | and then there's games that require the original disk to be inserted and have DRM to ensure that it's there |
| 18:07.09 | blast007 | less of a problem with newer games, but I have a lot of older games too |
| 18:07.27 | blast007 | if I had a mac, I wouldn't have that problem though, because they wouldn't run anyway |
| 18:08.33 | blast007 | (and the ones I have that *are* mac compatible would need an emulator on modern versions of OSX since they're for mac classic) :P |
| 18:16.18 | Constitution | are we done, or would anyone else like to complain about outdated or alternate architecture software that doesn't run on newer hardware or a given architecture? ;) |
| 18:20.00 | blast007 | Constitution: I could bash 64-bit versions of windows for dropping support for 16-bit windows software as well ;) |
| 18:20.57 | Constitution | if you like :) |
| 18:21.24 | blast007 | although they still work on 32-bit versions of Windows |
| 18:21.37 | blast007 | and Windows 8 will still have a 32-bit version |
| 18:21.45 | blast007 | so, not as bad as apple ;) |
| 18:22.23 | blast007 | or at least, I'm making an assumption that 16-bit apps will still work on 32-bit Windows 8 - haven't tried, nor will I probably try |
| 18:24.07 | Constitution | or we could all be purists and only run OSS and only use Linux |
| 18:27.37 | blast007 | yeah, but then there's all this proprietary firmware and closed source drivers |
| 18:27.44 | blast007 | my BIOS needs to be open source!! |
| 18:30.15 | blast007 | oh, and software patents! |
| 18:58.32 | rathis | blast007: What is a 16-bit app that you still want to run? |
| 18:59.13 | blast007 | most of them are DOS based, and then DOSBox works well for some of them |
| 18:59.29 | blast007 | though I've been less than happy with the mouse responsiveness in some of them |
| 18:59.48 | blast007 | (such as Descent II) |
| 19:00.15 | blast007 | I have a collection of old computers lying around that I use for my "legacy" games |
| 19:00.44 | rathis | blast007: I can't find time to play modern games, much less "legacy" ones. :) |
| 19:02.08 | blast007 | I don't pull out the old games much.. and some of them, like Doom and Descent II, have been open-sourced and ported to modern operating systems |
| 19:02.30 | blast007 | heck, Descent II runs on my ARM based Nokia N800 tablet |
| 19:06.21 | blast007 | I still remember playing Descent II over the LAN via IPX at my friend's house - first LAN party ;) |
| 19:06.46 | rathis | How long ago was that? |
| 19:08.03 | blast007 | mid to late 90's |
| 19:08.35 | blast007 | D2 came out in '96 |
| 19:10.37 | blast007 | wish I had kept all the DOS based utilties for D2... |
| 19:11.13 | Quol | wishes he had kept his commodore 64 |
| 19:12.43 | Quol | that and my second guitar...should have never gave it away :( |
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| 20:44.19 | JeffM | everybody wants to rule the world |
| 20:45.03 | rathis | insightful |
| 20:51.37 | Quol | thanks JeffM.... now I have tears for fears in my head |
| 20:52.06 | JeffM | just shout, shout it on our |
| 20:52.21 | Quol | heh |
| 20:52.42 | Quol | at least was a better song (IMO) |
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