| 00:03.55 | lemar8 | blast007: I found all but two in the Debian repository... Yes, I am using 2.4.0 rel. |
| 00:04.22 | lemar8 | trepan: yes, I am missing two packages.. opengl dev is one.. |
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| 00:19.13 | blast007 | lemar8: which two specifically couldn't you find? |
| 00:19.27 | blast007 | oh, and the readme in 2.4.0 lists some stuff that isn't necessary |
| 00:20.45 | blast007 | you don't need python-dev or swig, since bzrobots was a 2.99.x thing |
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| 03:19.57 | L4m3r | Just redid flagReset (now autoFlagReset) to reset flags incrementally one at a time to reduce lag spikes... |
| 03:20.05 | L4m3r | is it worth adding to the tree? |
| 03:33.45 | JeffM | sure why not |
| 03:35.19 | L4m3r | also, I see plugin utils being removed from plugin.sln... what about plugin.vcproj? does it matter? |
| 03:35.26 | JeffM | It'll give em somethign else to play with before we make a new game :) |
| 03:35.35 | JeffM | not all plugins needed it |
| 03:35.52 | JeffM | it was not meant to be built on it's own so just the project stayed |
| 03:37.34 | L4m3r | er, I mean in the individual plugins' subdirectories |
| 03:38.02 | JeffM | it should have never been copied to the individual dirs |
| 03:38.05 | L4m3r | like, fairCTF.sln has had the dependency removed, but fairCTF.vcproj still references plugin_utils |
| 03:38.13 | JeffM | they should reference the one in the tree |
| 03:38.24 | JeffM | oh you mean in the paths? |
| 03:38.28 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 03:38.33 | JeffM | that's not a reference |
| 03:38.38 | JeffM | that's from the standard plugin |
| 03:38.40 | JeffM | for search dirs |
| 03:38.44 | JeffM | it won't be used |
| 03:38.44 | L4m3r | oh, ok |
| 03:38.59 | JeffM | the VC linker is smarter then that |
| 03:39.17 | JeffM | folder != reference |
| 03:39.21 | L4m3r | and yeah, I do use the one in the tree when I need it, but I usually don't use pluginutils because my plugins tend to be butt simple anyway |
| 03:39.24 | JeffM | you may have multiuple libs in the same folder |
| 03:41.52 | L4m3r | Is there any possibility that the API could later specify colors for custom flags? |
| 03:42.02 | JeffM | it's not in the proto |
| 03:42.06 | L4m3r | it'd probably break protocol, but it'd be nice to have for use in custom game modes |
| 03:42.08 | JeffM | so not in 2.4's lifetime |
| 03:43.06 | L4m3r | I'm thinking it'd have to be added to the protocol for custom flags, then mostly changes in the client right? |
| 03:44.22 | JeffM | yrd |
| 03:44.24 | JeffM | yes |
| 03:44.34 | JeffM | 2.4.2 is probalby going to be the last one |
| 03:44.41 | L4m3r | so I hear |
| 03:45.25 | JeffM | there aint' a whole lotta interest in anything |
| 03:45.39 | JeffM | and 8 months just to get a debian package out the door.... |
| 03:48.47 | L4m3r | the player base seems more telling than anything, it's amazing how few people are on at any given time |
| 03:48.59 | JeffM | but yest, optimaly flags should be defined to the cleint using a color, name, shot type, and effect |
| 03:49.08 | JeffM | some nights it gets down to 0 |
| 03:49.13 | JeffM | I've been tracking stats |
| 03:49.25 | L4m3r | oh, that was another thought- custom shot/bullet types |
| 03:49.29 | JeffM | usualy peaks to high 90s |
| 03:51.11 | L4m3r | not enough bling to hold anyone's attention anymore |
| 03:51.55 | JeffM | the stats on the website makes it look like people leave the site when the see the screenshots page |
| 03:52.10 | L4m3r | hahaha really? |
| 03:52.24 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:52.31 | JeffM | my proposal is that we make a new game |
| 03:52.32 | L4m3r | that's sad |
| 03:52.44 | JeffM | it's a game from 1992 |
| 03:52.46 | L4m3r | something with a new engine? |
| 03:52.50 | JeffM | what do you expect |
| 03:52.54 | JeffM | something totaly new |
| 03:52.57 | JeffM | no bzflag code |
| 03:53.06 | JeffM | writen for the internet from the ground up |
| 03:53.21 | L4m3r | it's not sad because the screenshots are lame, it's sad that people would be so dismissive just based on graphics |
| 03:54.05 | JeffM | what do you expect, players have MANY other choices these days |
| 03:54.14 | JeffM | and if the graphics are bad, then you can bet the rest of the game is lacking |
| 03:55.14 | L4m3r | wow, though tbh the ones on the screenshots page are terrible |
| 03:55.19 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:55.38 | JeffM | my goal would be to make a game with a single binary deliverable on all systems that gets auto updated as needed |
| 03:55.41 | JeffM | like an MMO |
| 03:55.50 | JeffM | then we don't need releases |
| 03:55.56 | JeffM | we just push features as they happen |
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| 03:56.48 | JeffM | and to have a project run server cloud |
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| 04:21.25 | Quol_Home | JeffM, you awake? |
| 04:21.31 | JeffM | I am |
| 04:21.51 | JeffM | sadly doing the empire's dirty work |
| 04:22.14 | Quol_Home | quick question: I noticed that the playernames are all padded with null's to make them all 32chars long in the DB - that plan to stay that way? |
| 04:22.24 | JeffM | no |
| 04:22.29 | JeffM | dosn't really care |
| 04:23.10 | Quol_Home | I don't really care either - I can work around it in PHP if needed - just didn't want to do that if we would kill the nulls (although, it's just a matter of commenting out a line or 4) |
| 04:23.35 | JeffM | feel free to make ANY DB changes |
| 04:23.37 | Quol_Home | the nulls are a pain when doing SQL where clauses and trying to make sure it hits the index :) |
| 04:23.51 | JeffM | or any changes to the collector |
| 04:23.56 | Quol_Home | ohh - initial player pages are up |
| 04:23.56 | JeffM | I ain't a webhead |
| 04:24.00 | JeffM | cool |
| 04:25.19 | JeffM | probalby should do score over time, not "state" |
| 04:25.37 | Quol_Home | alright - I think I will keep it as is for now, work around it in PHP (simple pad player names with nulls before passing to SQL) - and if it changes - I will just have to fix it later |
| 04:25.48 | Quol_Home | ahh - score over time..sure |
| 04:25.51 | Quol_Home | will add that to |
| 04:25.53 | Quol_Home | *too |
| 04:26.01 | Quol_Home | wonder why i didn't think of it :) |
| 04:26.04 | Quol_Home | thx |
| 04:26.14 | JeffM | all that probably has to be done is calling trim on the strings before saving them |
| 04:26.43 | Quol_Home | or I could do that also...doesn't other me but that would certainly help :) |
| 04:26.50 | Quol_Home | *bother |
| 04:28.11 | Quol_Home | I haven't pulled svn in a while - any big changes to he collector? ( I guess I should just pull them...) |
| 04:28.19 | JeffM | there have been none |
| 04:28.24 | Quol_Home | kk |
| 04:30.03 | JeffM | I've been spending my time working on design docs and a plan for a proof of concept test |
| 04:30.27 | Quol_Home | cool |
| 04:31.36 | Quol_Home | so, I will go ahead and fix the collector on my side, and put together a script that will clean the DB somehow (remove null's from existing rows/columns..) - you OK with that path? |
| 04:31.44 | JeffM | sure |
| 04:32.28 | Quol_Home | K...how are the design/concept's coming along? |
| 04:32.40 | JeffM | Fine I think |
| 04:33.07 | JeffM | more reviews would be helpful but I think I am getting the ideas down |
| 04:34.39 | Quol_Home | cool - well, let me know if i can help out in any way |
| 04:34.57 | JeffM | having people read the docs would be nice |
| 04:35.09 | JeffM | I also wrote up some research tasks for the services side |
| 04:35.18 | JeffM | and how I think that authentication should work in general |
| 04:35.40 | JeffM | tho I need to add the concept of child accounts |
| 04:36.41 | Quol_Home | cool...child as in real child accounts? ie: give parents control (like times they can play etc..)? |
| 04:37.00 | JeffM | yes |
| 04:37.07 | JeffM | and where they can go |
| 04:37.10 | Quol_Home | ya - that would be cool |
| 04:37.13 | JeffM | keeps us clean on coppa |
| 04:37.33 | Quol_Home | my 9 and 12 year old it just getting into BZ - so I would support that idea :) |
| 04:37.58 | JeffM | it should not be too dificult |
| 04:38.05 | JeffM | just some extra hooks and some extra data |
| 04:38.37 | Quol_Home | actually - while I have been working on the stats site...sometimes my kids come over and have a look (they really get a kick out of the biggest jerk), and sometimes I have had to hide the screen because of some of the names...lol |
| 04:38.47 | JeffM | yeah |
| 04:38.56 | JeffM | that's why I want to require registration |
| 04:39.05 | JeffM | or at the least if we do guest accounts pick the name for them |
| 04:40.16 | JeffM | and by having the child->parent link in our db we can do things like prevent specific community servers from graniting auth to children |
| 04:40.27 | JeffM | so parents could keep them in specific places if needed |
| 04:40.36 | JeffM | and limit listings |
| 04:40.44 | Quol_Home | ya - cool |
| 04:40.48 | Quol_Home | sounds good |
| 04:40.51 | Propane_Tank | or maybe have a blacklist parents can set (or white) |
| 04:41.18 | JeffM | that would be bassicly what they do |
| 04:41.26 | Propane_Tank | you made it sound different |
| 04:41.54 | JeffM | I am talking more about how the backend handles that blacklist |
| 04:42.02 | Propane_Tank | nah |
| 04:42.04 | Propane_Tank | ah* |
| 04:42.13 | JeffM | the parrent would still say "don't let them go to these servers" |
| 04:42.18 | JeffM | or they coudl say "only let them go here" |
| 04:42.21 | JeffM | give them that option |
| 04:42.36 | Quol_Home | might be easier of each server had to give a rating - like video games (E, E10, T, M) type of thing -as well as white/black lists |
| 04:42.54 | L4m3r | that sounds difficult to enforce |
| 04:42.56 | JeffM | I would like that as well but for more then just children |
| 04:43.08 | JeffM | ever server has to be registerd L4m3r |
| 04:43.11 | JeffM | so not really |
| 04:43.29 | JeffM | and community servers would be in a different grouping anyway |
| 04:43.37 | JeffM | so they can have differnet defaults for kids |
| 04:43.47 | JeffM | this is what I want to write up to ensure it will work out |
| 04:44.30 | Quol_Home | ya - design specs are nice...*if* you can get the developers to follow them :) - but sounds good |
| 04:44.42 | JeffM | if they won't follow the design, you don't accept the code |
| 04:44.49 | JeffM | that's simple project management |
| 04:45.01 | Quol_Home | heh - at my work, it doesn't work like that unfortunately |
| 04:45.16 | JeffM | not all projects have to be manged like that |
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| 04:45.38 | JeffM | good games require clear designs |
| 04:45.55 | Quol_Home | specs are written, developers start writing, the owners son comes over and say "no no no - not like that - like this" (as he waves his hands around and draws stick figure art) |
| 04:46.15 | JeffM | then your work is poorly managed |
| 04:46.20 | Quol_Home | lol |
| 04:46.36 | Quol_Home | we have come up with a new term for it....nano managment |
| 04:46.49 | Quol_Home | that guy takes micro management to a whole new level |
| 04:46.50 | JeffM | and it depends on the application |
| 04:46.59 | Quol_Home | (that guy being the owner's son) |
| 04:47.19 | JeffM | a game dosn't just have to make you able to edit a file, and it's "Feature set" is less impoirant |
| 04:47.31 | JeffM | it has to be fun and fit as a complete thing |
| 04:47.41 | JeffM | it's more like a movie then a word processor |
| 04:48.17 | Quol_Home | ya - for sure |
| 04:52.34 | JeffM | patches welcome would not fly |
| 04:52.52 | JeffM | thats why I want funding sources in place to do code bounties |
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| 05:09.43 | Quol_Home | string.trim() doesn't do it...had to string.Replay("\0","") |
| 05:09.47 | Quol_Home | *Replace |
| 05:10.02 | JeffM | isn't there an rtrim? |
| 05:10.28 | Quol_Home | ya - but if it's like trim it won't remove nulls - just blank characters |
| 05:10.30 | JeffM | TrimEnd |
| 05:10.34 | JeffM | ah |
| 05:10.38 | JeffM | then replace is fine |
| 05:10.53 | JeffM | or you can call Trim(0) |
| 05:11.03 | JeffM | and give it the character to remove |
| 05:11.11 | JeffM | but replace will do the same |
| 05:11.24 | Quol_Home | which you prefer? |
| 05:11.31 | JeffM | whatever works |
| 05:11.47 | Quol_Home | will try both |
| 05:12.04 | JeffM | actualy trim wants a char array |
| 05:12.06 | JeffM | use replace |
| 05:13.04 | Quol_Home | kk |
| 05:13.18 | Quol_Home | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:22.20 | Quol_Home | JeffM, you want me to send you the diff? or is it simple enough for you just to put in place on your end too? (just 3 little changes in DBStore.cs) |
| 05:23.26 | JeffM | do you have commit access? |
| 05:23.49 | Quol_Home | nope - don't think so |
| 05:24.00 | JeffM | then just mail me a diff |
| 05:24.04 | JeffM | and I'll commit it |
| 05:24.07 | Quol_Home | kk |
| 05:29.14 | Quol_Home | I bz-mailed it to you through the forums (or did you want me to send it somewhere else?) |
| 05:29.20 | JeffM | tha'ts fine |
| 06:03.40 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22379 10/trunk/tools/BZStatCollector/DatabaseStore/DBStore.cs: nulls in databases are bad.. mmmmkay? |
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| 06:49.08 | allejo | anyone remember alice d's translator that she wrote? |
| 06:50.22 | allejo | nvm found it |
| 07:20.13 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03l4m3rthanyou * r22380 10/trunk/bzflag/ (10 files in 3 dirs): Add autoFlagReset plugin. |
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| 14:20.05 | mahem1 | Anyone know how you compile bzfs plugins on window? |
| 14:20.42 | blast007 | depends |
| 14:20.53 | blast007 | and why would you want to? |
| 14:21.08 | mahem1 | just to play around with it |
| 14:22.06 | mahem1 | what is the keyword? "make install" doesn't seem to work for me |
| 14:22.15 | blast007 | heh |
| 14:22.44 | blast007 | windows does not come with a C++ compilier |
| 14:22.56 | blast007 | you'll need Visual C++ 2008 |
| 14:23.21 | mahem1 | ok |
| 14:23.41 | mahem1 | anything else I should know? |
| 14:24.33 | blast007 | there's a couple ways to build plugins |
| 14:24.56 | blast007 | I normally just build the entire BZFlag source tree and get everything |
| 14:25.25 | blast007 | but there's ways to just build the plugin against your installed copy of bzfs, if you installed the development files |
| 14:25.44 | blast007 | you'd have to manually tweak the project to look there for the header and lib |
| 14:25.52 | blast007 | the plugin project, that is |
| 14:25.59 | mahem1 | i see |
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| 14:28.42 | mahem1 | so there is no easy way i guess |
| 14:29.00 | blast007 | bribe someone to build it for you? ;) |
| 14:29.23 | Quol | blast007, don't you mean sponsor? :) |
| 14:29.36 | blast007 | nah, I mean bribe ;) |
| 14:29.46 | Quol | heh |
| 14:30.05 | mahem1 | so i need to bribe them every time I what to change a different variable? |
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| 14:33.40 | mahem1 | any documentation for building a plug on windows? |
| 14:36.27 | mahem1 | I guess not.... |
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| 14:47.41 | BulletCatcher | The README.WINDOWS file in the top directory of the BZFlag source tree covers what is needed to build the client, server, and plugins all together. |
| 14:47.42 | BulletCatcher | Being able to do that is an excellent foundation for compiling other plugins. |
| 14:50.14 | mahem1 | ok, tanks for the info |
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| 17:01.16 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r22381 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/autoFlagReset/ (. Makefile.am): |
| 17:01.16 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: Add Subversion svn:ignore property to the new autoFlagReset plugin directory. |
| 17:01.16 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: Remove unneeded reference to plugin_utils when building autoFlagReset on unix. |
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| 22:14.36 | mahem1 | what is the default OS for compiling a bzfs plug? |
| 22:17.18 | mahem1 | or should i say the easiest |
| 22:17.26 | mdskpr__ | linux |
| 22:18.02 | mahem1 | ok |
| 22:22.36 | JeffM | windows :) |
| 22:22.46 | JeffM | you don't have to mod the build system on windows |
| 22:23.03 | JeffM | and you can build them indpendently |
| 22:34.21 | BulletCatcher | I am sure it is BeOS. If there were a computer somewhere still running BeOS I could prove myself right. |
| 22:36.04 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:36.17 | JeffM | I'm sure there is one somehwere |
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| 23:05.42 | cpast | question |
| 23:05.51 | cpast | so i'm trying to make a chatbot work with bzfs |
| 23:05.58 | cpast | using gloox |
| 23:06.20 | cpast | and it's giving a not authorized stream error |
| 23:06.43 | cpast | id chalk this up to non-bz stuff, but i had the same issue with a python xmpp library |
| 23:06.55 | cpast | is there anything bzflag does that might lead to this? |
| 23:07.05 | JeffM | what does the error even mean? |
| 23:07.07 | JeffM | what stream? |
| 23:07.53 | cpast | the xmpp stream |
| 23:08.00 | cpast | i think |
| 23:08.04 | JeffM | that's on it's own socket right? |
| 23:08.11 | cpast | it should be |
| 23:08.12 | cpast | yeah |
| 23:08.22 | JeffM | then yeah bzfs should not get in the way at all |
| 23:08.28 | JeffM | does it work in a standalone app? |
| 23:08.31 | cpast | yeah |
| 23:08.33 | JeffM | using the same code? |
| 23:08.43 | cpast | similar |
| 23:08.49 | cpast | let me try with as close to same as possible |
| 23:09.17 | JeffM | it's possible that bzfs will try to service the same sockets |
| 23:09.26 | JeffM | but they should not be part of the fdSet |
| 23:20.01 | cpast | yeah |
| 23:20.09 | cpast | it works when its not run with bzfs |
| 23:20.36 | JeffM | then you will have to debug bzfs and see where it is eating your sockets |
| 23:20.52 | JeffM | bzfs was not writen to know about other sockets in it's thread |
| 23:20.52 | cpast | ok |
| 23:21.09 | cpast | is there a way to use bzfs to handle these sockets? |
| 23:21.17 | JeffM | not on another port |
| 23:21.30 | JeffM | on the same port you can use the non player connection stuff |
| 23:21.49 | JeffM | but they only listen, they dont do outbound connections |
| 23:25.42 | cpast | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:25.46 | cpast | how did u do it? |
| 23:25.58 | JeffM | I was mostly on windows, and I opened my own sockets |
| 23:26.03 | JeffM | using my own IRC lib |
| 23:26.19 | JeffM | it may have had similar issues on other OSs |
| 23:26.20 | cpast | ok |
| 23:26.25 | cpast | ok |
| 23:26.31 | JeffM | winsock is different then bsd sockets |
| 23:32.51 | JeffM | I still thing having bzfs push to a database then having your chat system pull from it is a better design |
| 23:32.55 | JeffM | much more robust |
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| 23:34.06 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 23:34.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 23:37.05 | allejo | BulletCatcher, BeOS? |
| 23:38.36 | JeffM | it's the best of the dead OSs |
| 23:40.45 | allejo | how long dead? |
| 23:41.22 | JeffM | early 2000's |
| 23:42.05 | allejo | ah. will a virtual machine handle it? |
| 23:42.12 | JeffM | probably |
| 23:42.17 | JeffM | there is a modern open source port of it |
| 23:42.32 | JeffM | Haiku |
| 23:43.22 | allejo | I'll look into it just for the hell of it |
| 23:44.09 | JeffM | whatever floats your boat |
| 23:44.28 | JeffM | the beOS code for bzflag was removed from trunk long ago, it was never finished |
| 23:45.17 | allejo | bz ran on BeOS? |
| 23:45.53 | JeffM | someone was trying to make it run |
| 23:46.01 | JeffM | they never finished the work |
| 23:46.40 | JeffM | looks like the platform files are still in trunk |
| 23:46.45 | JeffM | the build target was removed IIRC |
| 23:56.25 | allejo | ahh. BeOS doesn't seem to get my attention as i read about it. oh well. |
| 23:56.35 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:56.52 | JeffM | it isn't actualy useful for anything |