| 00:01.38 | mrapple | ahh thanks JeffM |
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| 08:07.43 | CIA-92 | BZFlag: 03Nancy Gray 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7387 10/w/Whole_Theme_Of_Simplicity_On_Ugg_Boots_Wins_Great_Popularity: New page: When a large proportion regards a certain brand as the first choice on footwear [http://www.myuggsonsale.com uggs on sale], the price always rises up sharply. But this did not happen on th... |
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| 08:31.20 | CIA-92 | BZFlag: 03Optic Delusion 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7388 10/w/Whole_Theme_Of_Simplicity_On_Ugg_Boots_Wins_Great_Popularity: I still dont like ugg boots. |
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| 14:32.23 | CIA-92 | BZFlag: 03Blast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Nancy Gray]] with an expiry time of 1 year (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites |
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| 19:49.49 | alezakos | ##guleague |
| 19:49.53 | alezakos | oops |
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| 20:00.05 | jh` | hm |
| 20:00.19 | jh` | is it against the rules to paste forum links here?duc forum |
| 20:00.41 | alezakos | are you talking to me? |
| 20:00.46 | jh` | no |
| 20:01.52 | jh` | well, just want to know what devs like this new idea: |
| 20:01.54 | jh` | http://league.bzflag.net/index.php?link=bzforums&forumid=1&threadid=1814& |
| 20:03.20 | jh` | its the last posts of the thread |
| 20:17.29 | ruskie | I'd say that those people that want to play in any league find a league... |
| 20:17.36 | ruskie | the rest of us are happy without such things ;) |
| 20:19.03 | soxs | how do we know they want to play in a league?, if we don't offer the information?, are we suppose to "hope" they discover the league? |
| 20:19.23 | soxs | well, i won't debate this here anyhow:) |
| 20:19.37 | jh` | yes, little general info would not hurt anyone |
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| 20:19.53 | ruskie | people generally know if they want to play in a competitive way and find it... |
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| 20:20.07 | ruskie | of course there could be a note about some generic info on leagues(maybe a wiki page link) in the MOTD |
| 20:20.25 | jh` | yep smt like that |
| 20:20.38 | ruskie | which the only thing needed is for someone to change the MOTD ;) |
| 20:20.46 | ruskie | no messing with the installer etc ;) |
| 20:21.25 | ruskie | along with a link or two to some howto play tutorial type things maybe |
| 20:21.30 | jh` | but it should be with BIG FONTS, so they wont miss it:P |
| 20:21.43 | ruskie | no it should be just a normal motd |
| 20:22.14 | ruskie | you want to promote it... but not endorse it |
| 20:22.53 | jh` | it would be nice to see if it has any impact |
| 20:23.00 | jh` | and not hard to do |
| 20:23.37 | soxs | ruskie: how do you expect noobs to read a wiki? |
| 20:24.16 | ruskie | I thought reading was like something that's needed to get through life and thus thought in schools... |
| 20:24.25 | soxs | ruskie: when you put it in a installer: it allows that player to become a bit more knowledgeable, rather than hoping they "find" some wiki page, as we all know, the wiki doesn't get used often. |
| 20:25.00 | soxs | ruskie: most players don't waste there time on wikis unless it involves compiling, ect⦠something a bit more complex. |
| 20:25.56 | soxs | so for exmaple, if i started playing counter strike: and if i wanted to discover a league, the last thing i would do would be to google a "counter strike wiki" hoping to discover a league. |
| 20:26.01 | soxs | example* |
| 20:26.10 | jh` | heh |
| 20:26.22 | jh` | btw |
| 20:26.22 | ruskie | soxs, no but you would search for counter strike clan |
| 20:26.42 | soxs | correct, usually found on a games main website, which isn't like bzflag. |
| 20:26.45 | jh` | how do other games advertise leagues or clans |
| 20:26.51 | soxs | which therefore makes the simplicity of find a league a lot easier. |
| 20:26.58 | soxs | finding* |
| 20:27.04 | ruskie | really? they do that? |
| 20:27.06 | ruskie | I wouldn't know |
| 20:27.09 | ruskie | never bothered about it |
| 20:27.32 | ruskie | and I know I would get annoyed if anything would start throwing me ads about it |
| 20:27.39 | soxs | yes, if you looked throughout the bzflag website, you wouldn't find much about a league. |
| 20:28.14 | soxs | ruskie: and then you should ask yourself why this game isn't keeping players around. |
| 20:28.35 | ruskie | erm |
| 20:28.37 | soxs | and how other games are, because you don't like seeing advertisement while others games just do it. |
| 20:29.04 | blast007 | the game doesn't keep players around because it's not intuitive and because it's not "shiny" |
| 20:29.09 | ruskie | bingo |
| 20:29.22 | ruskie | it actually requires usage of brain to play effectively |
| 20:29.36 | ruskie | and of course it's not twitchy like most FPSes |
| 20:29.52 | soxs | blast007: the players do not know what's out there for them |
| 20:30.02 | soxs | blast007: most of the players still playing are from the leagues |
| 20:30.02 | ruskie | I don't consider clan/league based gaming to keep a game alive |
| 20:30.09 | blast007 | there is no tutorial, the registration process is confusing, features are tacked on with inconsistency, and so on |
| 20:30.12 | jh` | hm |
| 20:30.16 | jh` | i think most |
| 20:30.29 | jh` | who are really active players, are league plauers recently |
| 20:30.40 | blast007 | and league play isn't going to keep a game alive that is trivial to write cheats for |
| 20:30.42 | ruskie | it's actually keeping most players out of it... because after a few months most such games only have insanely skilled players around and nobody to just play for fun |
| 20:30.49 | soxs | so if we can let these "noobs" know they exists it could help the game. |
| 20:31.10 | blast007 | soxs: still in the 'denial' phase? :) |
| 20:31.23 | soxs | blast: i could say the same for you. |
| 20:31.34 | soxs | just because you don't agree with me, i don't say you are in the "denial" phase. |
| 20:31.42 | soxs | it's a matter of opinions. |
| 20:31.48 | blast007 | I mean about the game being dead |
| 20:31.54 | soxs | take a look at counterstrike. |
| 20:31.58 | jh` | but.. |
| 20:32.04 | soxs | this game has been along for how long? |
| 20:32.09 | jh` | how big thing is it to add something for motd |
| 20:32.13 | soxs | and you can tell me what keeps counterstrike alive? |
| 20:32.16 | jh` | for example |
| 20:32.17 | blast007 | which one? the original, or the source engine one? |
| 20:32.25 | soxs | and i will tell you, it's the leagues, in counterstrike. |
| 20:32.33 | ruskie | soxs, I wouldn't know what keeps it alive... I stopped playing it in 2004... it got boring |
| 20:32.34 | soxs | the original blast. |
| 20:32.45 | blast007 | CS:S has VAC, and maybe the original one too |
| 20:32.56 | soxs | ruskie: just because you dont play, doesn't mean others don't the numbers for counterstrike don't lie. |
| 20:33.06 | blast007 | why would people play the original when there is the source engine one? |
| 20:33.19 | blast007 | I picked up CS:S for $5 |
| 20:33.39 | soxs | and the original counterstrike is still being played without many advancements. |
| 20:33.47 | ruskie | soxs, among the reasons it got boring is that most people I played with and most servers I played on stopped playing or running |
| 20:33.49 | soxs | blast007: some players don't like source. |
| 20:34.07 | soxs | ruskie: but, the original is still alive, because of leagues. |
| 20:34.12 | blast007 | still, not a comparison to bzflag |
| 20:34.14 | soxs | simple, if you fail to realize that i am sorry. |
| 20:34.26 | soxs | of course it's not the same game blast, but leagues play a major role in activity. |
| 20:34.29 | ruskie | it's alive for the leagues not because of them |
| 20:34.35 | soxs | and that needs to be understood. |
| 20:34.52 | ruskie | a casual player coming in would probably quit rather quickly |
| 20:35.17 | blast007 | and I only bought CS:S so the resources could be used in Gary's Mod ;) |
| 20:35.37 | soxs | bzflag is downloaded over 1,000 times per week, if we can get %5 of these players to play in the leagues, there is a lot better change that the game is in better shoes than it would be in now. |
| 20:35.54 | ruskie | gaming should be about having fun... not about being organized or competting etc... |
| 20:36.02 | soxs | now ruskie: if you take a lot at who's still playing bzflag the noobs or league players, it would be the league players. |
| 20:36.05 | jh` | competitive is fun |
| 20:36.08 | jh` | for some people |
| 20:36.21 | soxs | so if you conform to the players who are still playing, wouldn't that make more sense? |
| 20:37.00 | soxs | why should the game conform to players who are quiting? |
| 20:37.24 | ruskie | that means one would only catter to those and don't care about any other players... and thus you lose any new players that might want to play it differently |
| 20:37.35 | soxs | no you wouldn't. |
| 20:38.06 | soxs | when i say conforming it would mean a simple message in the installer that wouldn't put any harm into anybody. |
| 20:38.16 | blast007 | the game could be redone and made better, created with an actual plan |
| 20:38.23 | soxs | ruskie: what is there to lose? |
| 20:38.42 | blast007 | say, for instance, you base it on the Quake3 engine, or as a source mod |
| 20:38.59 | soxs | half of these people in this chat are league players. |
| 20:39.10 | blast007 | good for them ;) |
| 20:39.10 | soxs | blast007: i understand completely with what you are saying. |
| 20:39.15 | ruskie | anyone who doesn't want to play it competativily would see the message and just uninstall it |
| 20:39.27 | soxs | not true. |
| 20:39.31 | soxs | you are just being negative. |
| 20:39.37 | ruskie | no... I'm just being me |
| 20:39.38 | soxs | to something you don't agree about. |
| 20:40.07 | ruskie | actually I'm viewing it as a gamer |
| 20:40.20 | ruskie | looking at both sides |
| 20:40.25 | soxs | and if any player would be so judgmental over such a minor message shouldn't be playing then. |
| 20:40.26 | blast007 | the leagues are just a part of the players |
| 20:40.27 | ruskie | yes it could be good but it could also be bad |
| 20:40.36 | blast007 | people play for different reasons |
| 20:40.55 | soxs | blast007: that's correct, but leagues seem to keep players around. |
| 20:41.15 | blast007 | a small set of players, in bzflag's case |
| 20:41.18 | soxs | what's there to lose at this point? |
| 20:41.25 | soxs | if it works great, if it doesn't life goes on. |
| 20:41.31 | jh` | true |
| 20:41.37 | blast007 | how many unique players are actually active in the leagues? |
| 20:41.37 | ruskie | blast007, btw q3? source mod? so basically close it up and screw everyone? |
| 20:41.41 | jh` | whats there to loose trying |
| 20:41.51 | blast007 | ruskie: the quake 3 engine is open-source, afaik |
| 20:42.02 | soxs | what do you consider as unique players? |
| 20:42.07 | blast007 | http://ioquake3.org/ |
| 20:42.53 | ruskie | but would the game still play the same? |
| 20:42.58 | ruskie | or would it be drastically different |
| 20:43.02 | soxs | im just trying to say, the good would out weigh the bad in this situation. |
| 20:43.19 | blast007 | ruskie: well, it would depend who wrote it ;) |
| 20:43.38 | ruskie | I'd go with the motd message first... and maybe get a page on the bzflag site with links to various leagues etc... |
| 20:44.13 | ruskie | wishes he could play some bzflag but alas I keep getting annoying jitter that makes it unplayable :( |
| 20:44.47 | soxs | ruskie: something like that could be good, im open to ideas, but how often does somebody go to bzflag.org to download a client?, most find it on sf... |
| 20:45.18 | ruskie | motd+link to the leagues page on bzflag.org could work |
| 20:45.56 | soxs | now when you install steam: if i remember correctly there is a load of advertisements.. |
| 20:46.10 | ruskie | wouldn't know |
| 20:46.12 | soxs | so it's not like bzflag would be the only game doing such a thing :) |
| 20:46.13 | blast007 | ads in steam? |
| 20:46.25 | soxs | yes. |
| 20:46.37 | blast007 | I mean, sure, they post specials for games they sell |
| 20:46.52 | ruskie | the only gaming system I have is a ps3 and my linux box |
| 20:48.00 | soxs | so if i may ask, what's there to lose if the source is dead? |
| 20:48.34 | soxs | i can only seeing it help, and if it doesn't it could be removed.. |
| 20:48.35 | ruskie | is it? |
| 20:48.43 | ruskie | I wasn't aware it is dead |
| 20:48.56 | soxs | no need for sarcasm. |
| 20:49.02 | ruskie | not sarcasm |
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| 20:49.12 | ruskie | I haven't been following the development at all |
| 20:49.23 | jh` | well its been said in this channel often |
| 20:49.33 | jh` | thats theres no development going on |
| 20:49.40 | ruskie | but the last update I have of bzflag is from april this year... |
| 20:50.04 | soxs | ruskie: Jeffm told me that the source is dead. |
| 20:50.07 | ruskie | and I've seen projects have less development than this and still not being dead |
| 20:50.13 | soxs | and that "nobody cares" |
| 20:50.45 | ruskie | well if the league cares maybe they can continue development |
| 20:51.08 | soxs | ruskie: you are missing the objective here. |
| 20:52.06 | soxs | nobody said the league "players" can do a better job, all i've suggested is a simple message explaining the leagues to keep players around. |
| 20:52.08 | ruskie | I guess I'm thinking this differently... I'd like to see the entire project be alive(and that includes the players and devs)... not just promoting a "dead" as it is project for a specific purpose |
| 20:52.30 | soxs | ruskie: what are you doing for the project? |
| 20:52.45 | ruskie | nothing because I'm not a coder |
| 20:52.52 | soxs | as i have said before, not every posses the skills to code. |
| 20:53.05 | soxs | oh, so you are like most players, so how do you expect leagues to keep it alive? |
| 20:53.05 | ruskie | though I still recommend the game to anyone I know or meet |
| 20:53.38 | soxs | so you are like most players, can't code, and you are suggesting the leagues code and keep the game alive? |
| 20:53.49 | jh` | you dev ruskie? |
| 20:54.10 | ruskie | I never said I can't code |
| 20:54.13 | ruskie | just am not a coder |
| 20:54.29 | soxs | the devs we have are great, they are just busy perhaps, or have moved on with life, that's fine no problems there, im happy with bzflag as it is now, games don't always need to be changing to pick up new players, we need to keep the players the game gets, and a message would help :) |
| 20:54.50 | ruskie | soxs, well then get the motd stuff and a website change |
| 20:54.55 | ruskie | should be easier than installer change |
| 20:55.06 | ruskie | also it would actually work |
| 20:55.12 | ruskie | since there is only a windows installer |
| 20:55.20 | ruskie | and so only windows people would see it |
| 20:55.28 | ruskie | anyone installing using their distro package manager wouldn't |
| 20:55.30 | soxs | ruskie: as i have said, i don't have those skills, i can only suggest. |
| 20:55.38 | ruskie | or building their own from source |
| 20:55.40 | soxs | there is a large amount of windows players, most kids playing this game are windows. |
| 20:56.05 | ruskie | I see half-and-half roughly |
| 20:56.10 | soxs | of course, there is linux, mac, ectâ¦, but a large amount of windows players. |
| 20:56.11 | ruskie | atm on vipers |
| 20:56.33 | soxs | and what harm would it have? |
| 20:56.42 | soxs | this is what we must bring into question, if there is harm or not. |
| 20:56.49 | ruskie | also how exactly will you force people to update something they already have installed? I see peopre with .12, .14, .16 versions... so they don't exactly upgrade that often |
| 20:56.51 | soxs | and i don't see it having harm. |
| 20:57.04 | soxs | you don't force updates, that was never the debate. |
| 20:57.21 | soxs | when the game "goes" to "3.0" if it does, that would force users to update. |
| 20:57.29 | soxs | just like it did on 2.0.0 |
| 20:57.51 | soxs | you didn't have to update to 2.0.0, but if you wanted to play with others you had to. |
| 20:58.08 | ruskie | so there would be no immediate benefit in having the installer show a message at all |
| 20:58.15 | jh` | well the motd and webpage are better than nothing |
| 20:58.16 | soxs | perhaps you are thinking to far into it. |
| 20:58.22 | ruskie | I tend to |
| 20:58.27 | ruskie | hence why I said I'm not a coder |
| 20:58.32 | ruskie | I approach any coding the same way |
| 20:58.36 | soxs | we don't need a "immmediate" benefit. |
| 20:59.21 | soxs | there wouldn't be a immediate benefit because we don't have any releases any time in the future. |
| 20:59.25 | ruskie | well I say immediate probably more like in the short-to-medium term |
| 20:59.34 | soxs | but at some time, i would be nice. |
| 20:59.38 | soxs | it* |
| 20:59.53 | soxs | next release i told would be "3.0", which doesn't sound to immediate. |
| 21:00.14 | soxs | but that will force players to update.., and a message in the windows installer and on bzflag.org website could be useful. |
| 21:00.16 | ruskie | I thought that was all that was being develloped on |
| 21:01.13 | soxs | from what i've been told-yes. |
| 21:01.49 | soxs | but it wouldn't be immediate, the game will still have enough life in it when 3.0 is released to bring it back to where it used to be. |
| 21:02.10 | soxs | personally, i think we could work with what we have, advertise, and go from there. |
| 21:02.13 | soxs | nothing to lose. |
| 21:02.54 | jh` | so, when you will change the motd:P? |
| 21:02.57 | jh` | and webpage |
| 21:04.45 | soxs | 16 observers in here play in the league, the odds are against the non league players, of course not everyone will choose to play in leagues, but it's def. the strong point of the game, you can not argue that |
| 21:06.18 | ruskie | sure I can |
| 21:06.21 | ruskie | I just won't bother |
| 21:07.13 | soxs | that's fine to me, i won't conform to inactive players that don't play, doesn't make any sense. |
| 21:07.41 | soxs | that's like allowing illegal immigrants into the united states that don't want to pay there taxes. |
| 21:08.05 | soxs | or "listening" to them. |
| 21:08.14 | jh` | and btw, i wanted to know what devs think about this, you are one ruskie? |
| 21:08.34 | ruskie | nope not a dev |
| 21:08.39 | jh` | ... |
| 21:08.47 | ruskie | devs generally have voice in here iirc |
| 21:08.51 | ruskie | mostly |
| 21:09.04 | kierra | ho |
| 21:09.13 | ruskie | soxs, that argument makes no sense ;) |
| 21:10.40 | soxs | actually it does, if you don't play the game, your argument won't be thought of, just like if you don't pay your taxes in america, nobody wants to hear from you. |
| 21:12.39 | ruskie | the main issues with death of bzflag are: a) cheating b) to complex a game for the twitch crowd c) people crying about any and all control on a server and then storming off |
| 21:13.00 | ruskie | I've seen a I've seen b and I've seen c |
| 21:13.17 | ruskie | never have I heard a complaint that it lacks clans/leagues etc... |
| 21:13.31 | soxs | that's not the complaint. |
| 21:13.39 | soxs | you are in left field and i am in right. |
| 21:14.18 | soxs | every game has cheaters, i don't see all of them dead :), the problem is we aren't holding onto the players, and showing them what the game can offer. |
| 21:15.21 | ruskie | well I've been playing it since 2004 |
| 21:15.37 | ruskie | and I'm not part of a league or anything like that |
| 21:15.43 | ruskie | I simply enjoy the gameplay |
| 21:15.48 | ruskie | but I only play on one server |
| 21:15.56 | ruskie | and have generally kept to that one server most of the time |
| 21:17.11 | ruskie | and I've seen that server go from really popular to beeing near dead and back again |
| 21:17.36 | ruskie | I even ran my own server for a while |
| 21:19.28 | ruskie | and yes I did try playing on a ducati style server... frankly if that kind of play would be enforced I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have so far |
| 21:21.18 | soxs | nobody is forcing one style.... |
| 21:21.31 | soxs | i've been playing since 2001, and im still around, playing leagues, and other noobish servers. |
| 21:21.46 | soxs | ruskie: perhaps you need to reread what i am asking. |
| 21:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag TASAIRES (~TASAIRES@84.121.178.221.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 21:25.19 | ruskie | I think I've already responded with the best and most neutral and possibly the most effective suggestion possible |
| 21:25.45 | soxs | i'm trying to promote a way for leagues to be a bit more active, and you should be trying to figure out a way to promote nooby servers, like having small screenshots in the windows installer of different styles, yes there is screenies on sf's site, but not really of current maps being played. |
| 21:26.39 | ruskie | maybe record some vids of various maps and servers and comment on what type of the map is... how to play it... what skill level might be for it... and up them to someplace like blip.tv or something |
| 21:27.21 | ruskie | show all teams and all modes and show observing the gameplay etc... |
| 21:28.35 | blast007 | soxs: also, there is already a link on bzflag.org to one league |
| 21:28.39 | blast007 | the ducati league |
| 21:29.35 | blast007 | ruskie: and forcing upgrades are done by breaking protocol. |
| 21:29.46 | ruskie | true |
| 21:30.22 | soxs | so you think, if you post a links section on bzflag.org, and then forwards it to to bz wiki will help bring players into the ducati league?, there are like 20 links there. |
| 21:30.30 | blast007 | or heck, do something like rewriting the game in C# and then running it via Mono |
| 21:30.51 | blast007 | and have a minimal launcher that doesn't need to be updated, but can download the new game binaries/data when needed |
| 21:31.00 | soxs | if bzflag.org had it's own tab, for "league" i think that would be a bit more beneficial |
| 21:31.30 | blast007 | jeff had been toying with that kind of thing for his own stuff (the auto updating C# game) |
| 21:31.46 | soxs | not every player that downloads the game is so thorough |
| 21:32.22 | blast007 | BZFlag is a LAN game at it's core |
| 21:32.30 | soxs | blast007: people like to see things a bit more out in the open, and a lot of players like to look for leagues, and if it isn't so simply advertised they will give up hopes rather fast. |
| 21:32.33 | blast007 | it makes too many assumptions |
| 21:32.46 | blast007 | it assumes that people will be "honest" in most cases |
| 21:33.09 | blast007 | soxs: oh well |
| 21:33.33 | soxs | i hope you know what i mean, the simplicity just isn't there :) |
| 21:34.08 | blast007 | "How do I vote?" "You have to register" "How do I register?" "Go to this forum and register" |
| 21:34.21 | soxs | heh |
| 21:34.25 | blast007 | so much of BZFlag is just cobbled together |
| 21:34.34 | ruskie | I guess that's the charm as well ;) |
| 21:35.31 | blast007 | and doing it "right" while also maintaining compatibility is harder |
| 21:35.31 | soxs | blast007: would you suggest something like a advertisement for leagues in the installer? |
| 21:35.36 | blast007 | no |
| 21:35.43 | blast007 | that's just stupid |
| 21:35.48 | soxs | not so. |
| 21:35.51 | blast007 | yes |
| 21:36.03 | soxs | when gu is active, theres more players on from the leagues than the whole game.. |
| 21:36.10 | soxs | that's just the truth of the matter. |
| 21:36.33 | blast007 | "Join this league" *click* "404 page not found" "Where did this league go?" "Oh, well, bzleague got hacked, then the domain expired, then they moved it over to here" |
| 21:36.45 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (~lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 21:37.01 | soxs | blast007: those are small things that could be ironed, out you know that :) |
| 21:37.12 | soxs | if a bunch of players would suggest this, could it be implemented? |
| 21:37.21 | soxs | or would it be, im a dev, i have the final say? |
| 21:37.31 | blast007 | a dev would have to actually put it in |
| 21:37.55 | blast007 | and since I'm probably the one that would be doing a Windows installer release... ;) |
| 21:37.59 | soxs | yes, that's understood, but if the players wanted it, and the devs didn't it, are you going to take sides with the players or yourself? |
| 21:38.10 | blast007 | devs work on what they want |
| 21:38.18 | blast007 | I don't think a link to a league will help |
| 21:38.22 | soxs | that's sort of bias. |
| 21:38.29 | blast007 | a link to the main sure, maybe |
| 21:39.54 | soxs | not a link blast, but some screenies of gu league and ducati. |
| 21:40.02 | soxs | during the installation. |
| 21:40.11 | soxs | that could maybe "pull" in some players. |
| 21:41.08 | blast007 | oh yes, a screenshot of a randomly generated map |
| 21:41.13 | blast007 | how exciting! |
| 21:41.23 | blast007 | I'd be looking for the uninstaller right away |
| 21:42.03 | soxs | blast, i have seen screenshots in many installation games. |
| 21:42.08 | soxs | why are you so against it? |
| 21:42.20 | soxs | when installing games, it's like having a sneak peak of what the game offers. |
| 21:42.32 | blast007 | they're already installing it |
| 21:42.40 | blast007 | they'll see what it looks like soon enough |
| 21:42.50 | trepan | plus, it's probably best hidden in bz's case |
| 21:42.56 | soxs | that's the obvious |
| 21:43.21 | soxs | actually, if it's worked for other games and programs, it would work for this game. |
| 21:43.39 | soxs | when installing americas army, you see screenies of the game being played. |
| 21:43.44 | trepan | if gas will help my car run, it'll surely make my horse go faster! |
| 21:43.49 | soxs | and what the game showcases. |
| 21:44.02 | blast007 | AA also has good graphics |
| 21:44.05 | soxs | it would be beneficial in bzflag too. |
| 21:44.14 | soxs | blast: you are beating around the bush. |
| 21:44.24 | soxs | we aren't playing bzflag for the graphics. |
| 21:44.33 | blast007 | soxs: no, it's the ugly tree |
| 21:44.36 | soxs | if that was the case i would have quit 9 years ago. |
| 21:45.03 | blast007 | bzflag isn't as easy to "jump into" as other games are |
| 21:45.10 | blast007 | and the graphics isn't going to keep people around either |
| 21:45.13 | soxs | not true |
| 21:45.16 | soxs | any game is like that. |
| 21:45.21 | blast007 | there is no tutorial |
| 21:45.25 | soxs | counter strike isn't easy to jump into. |
| 21:45.31 | blast007 | there is no on-screen help (besides flag help) |
| 21:45.33 | ruskie | dead easy compared to bzflag |
| 21:45.38 | blast007 | it doesn't tell you want to do when you join a game |
| 21:45.46 | soxs | why do you need a tutorial if you can read on wiki the firing keys? |
| 21:45.49 | soxs | what tutorial do you need? |
| 21:45.57 | ruskie | run around and shoot people and if you die you need to wait for end of the match... |
| 21:45.58 | blast007 | why should they have to read a wiki for that? |
| 21:46.06 | ruskie | you quickly learn not to do that |
| 21:46.08 | blast007 | it should be IN THE GAME |
| 21:46.16 | blast007 | it should help you |
| 21:46.18 | soxs | you tell me blast, i didnn't implement this feature |
| 21:46.24 | blast007 | so that people don't get frustrated and leave |
| 21:46.32 | soxs | i am just playing the negative game like you are:) |
| 21:46.49 | blast007 | I don't really code the game ;) I barely know any C++ |
| 21:47.00 | soxs | yah yah. |
| 21:47.05 | blast007 | I'm just good at copy/pasting stuff and tweaking it until it works okay |
| 21:47.10 | blast007 | I do more of the web stuff |
| 21:47.46 | soxs | blast007: i just feel that bzflag isn't keeping players around, and it's not because of the source isn't advancing like some think. |
| 21:48.10 | soxs | people played the game 5 years ago, and there was better games graphically. You can say the same now, and we have lost the player amount. |
| 21:48.16 | blast007 | yeah, it's because the game just sucks ;) |
| 21:48.32 | soxs | so why was the game so active 5 years ago?, if the game sucks? |
| 21:48.54 | blast007 | how much more active was it? |
| 21:48.59 | soxs | a lot. |
| 21:49.06 | blast007 | [citation needed] |
| 21:49.38 | ruskie | I more or less saw the same people on the same servers |
| 21:49.38 | soxs | well from a league stand point, i am sure there are graphs, but then you could say how do i know those graphs aren't lies? |
| 21:49.55 | ruskie | soxs, it's statistics... it can't be anything but lies ;) |
| 21:50.05 | soxs | right |
| 21:50.21 | ruskie | but it can be helpfull to visualize the stuff ;) |
| 21:50.23 | soxs | this is just a cat and mouse conversation. |
| 21:50.34 | ruskie | actually more a chicken&egg problem ;) |
| 21:50.59 | ruskie | will the game bring in more players for the leagues or will the leagues bring in more players for the game |
| 21:51.15 | soxs | how do we know the game is drawing players away?, maybe i should blame the economy since some people might not be able to afford internet now? |
| 21:52.05 | ruskie | I showed the game to a group of friends that work at a game dev company... what was it... yeah some 5 years ago... they had a nice chuckle but didn't even touch it... |
| 21:52.38 | jh` | well |
| 21:53.00 | trepan | the upside to the conversation: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/xmasirc.png |
| 21:53.17 | ruskie | basically it wasn't shinny enough... or twitchy enough... or large enough... or easy enough... |
| 21:53.33 | soxs | trepan: did you just take the time to do that? i am honored. |
| 21:53.36 | jh` | but..compared to many shiny games, i think its more fun to play |
| 21:53.41 | jh` | =more playable |
| 21:53.46 | trepan | soxs: all 6 seconds ;) |
| 21:53.54 | soxs | nice, i feel pleasured. |
| 21:54.02 | trepan | maybe you need to get out more |
| 21:54.21 | ruskie | jh`, agreed |
| 21:54.42 | soxs | i do, often enough. |
| 21:55.14 | soxs | trepan: that irc client looks just as ugly as bzflag. |
| 21:55.35 | soxs | but you are using it not for the looks, just like i don't play bzflag for it "looks" but for the community. |
| 21:56.14 | jh` | +its lightweight |
| 21:57.06 | ruskie | soxs, also the prob is needing to bring in a new "look a shiny, look another shiny" generation of players in... |
| 21:57.17 | soxs | not true. |
| 21:58.35 | ruskie | then you're left with the hardcore fan that either a) knows about leagues and doesn't care about them(i.e. me) b) a hardcore fan that participates in a league because there aren't any new people coming in otherwise |
| 21:58.38 | soxs | who is going to know that bzflag just released 3.0 when it does?, just the current players, are you hoping that the following players that download the game end up staying due to it's new "shiny look", if so, i doubt it. More needs to be done than just that. |
| 21:58.58 | jh` | they say it wont ever be released |
| 21:59.14 | jh` | too hard to change stuff on server side |
| 21:59.37 | soxs | so since it won't ever be released, why not try to make changes to small things ie. installer package to educate players? |
| 21:59.52 | blast007 | soxs: irssi is one of the best IRC clients :P |
| 22:00.01 | ruskie | irssi++ |
| 22:00.40 | soxs | yah, rather ugly :), ill stick to adium. |
| 22:00.53 | soxs | luckily i don't quit bz due to it's looks:) |
| 22:01.07 | blast007 | I don't think adium can run without a GUI ;) |
| 22:01.08 | jh` | my comp could not even run recent games |
| 22:01.15 | jh` | 5 years old or so |
| 22:01.39 | soxs | blast007: i just use it for this, simplicity is there, and so is appearance, all that i care for. |
| 22:01.48 | blast007 | goes back to Assassin's Creed 2 |
| 22:01.54 | jh` | heh |
| 22:01.58 | ruskie | blast007, not brotherhood? |
| 22:02.29 | ruskie | http://codemages.net/irssi.png <-- soxs it can look better ;) |
| 22:03.13 | trepan | ruskie: but the color scheme is all wrong ;) |
| 22:03.24 | ruskie | trepan, to each their own ;) |
| 22:03.40 | blast007 | ruskie: that's not out for PC |
| 22:03.40 | trepan | "xmas" being the theme... |
| 22:04.04 | blast007 | nor will it be down for $15 for a while once it is ;) |
| 22:04.06 | soxs | does it support aim, msn, icq? |
| 22:04.08 | blast007 | down to* |
| 22:04.27 | ruskie | soxs, why would I want crappy, crappy and crappy support ? |
| 22:04.34 | blast007 | ruskie: beat me to it |
| 22:04.42 | ruskie | soxs, and one can use bitlbee to get to those services anyway... |
| 22:04.44 | ruskie | and also jabber |
| 22:04.48 | ruskie | and there is a jabber module for it as well |
| 22:04.57 | ruskie | and jabber can connect to those crappy services as well ;) |
| 22:05.03 | blast007 | but in any case, yes: http://www.bitlbee.org/main.php/news.r.html |
| 22:05.08 | soxs | to much work, i like point click install. |
| 22:05.14 | soxs | simplicity. |
| 22:05.32 | ruskie | then you want complexity |
| 22:05.34 | soxs | it's the key to success. |
| 22:05.43 | soxs | adioum is the easiest to use ever. |
| 22:05.45 | ruskie | because point click installs aren't simple |
| 22:06.51 | ruskie | also we are talking about irc |
| 22:06.54 | soxs | right |
| 22:06.55 | ruskie | not crappy im services ;) |
| 22:07.08 | ruskie | different model of use ;) |
| 22:08.12 | ruskie | but yeah you could run a jabber client and connect to jabber transports for irc, icq, aim, msn, etc... |
| 22:08.27 | ruskie | hell there's even a mail transport for jabber... for both sending and reading it... |
| 22:08.29 | soxs | to much work |
| 22:08.47 | ruskie | same amount of work as your all in one client ;) |
| 22:08.56 | ruskie | you need to setup the same info in both cases |
| 22:09.47 | ruskie | with bitlbee you can connect to a single public server and you can add the accounts there ;) |
| 22:10.26 | ruskie | also about your installer idea... how often do people stare at the installer while it's actually installing? |
| 22:10.29 | ruskie | I know I rarely do |
| 22:37.04 | blast007 | you know what we really need? INSTALLER MUSIC!! |
| 22:39.06 | Gabe_G23 | LOL! |
| 22:55.50 | jh` | that would certainly bring ppl to bz |
| 23:01.50 | blast007 | hmmm, but we would have to make our installer take longer so that people could hear the awesome music |
| 23:01.59 | blast007 | so we'll just throw a 3 minute sleep into the isntaller |
| 23:07.40 | soxs | would be a better idea than keeping it as is now. |
| 23:07.44 | soxs | maybe a bzflag rap? |
| 23:08.58 | soxs | blast007: what's #1 on the server list? |
| 23:09.04 | soxs | looks like it's a gu server:) |
| 23:09.32 | blast007 | with 12 players, woooow |
| 23:09.49 | soxs | shows what's keeping this game alive. |
| 23:09.54 | soxs | with 24 users. |
| 23:10.15 | blast007 | it's Christmas. People are away from home right now. |
| 23:10.39 | soxs | what about the public-nooby servers?, it's not christmas for them? |
| 23:10.45 | blast007 | my server had 30 players plus observers a couple days ago - doesn't mean that my server is keeping it alive |
| 23:11.11 | soxs | actually there is a player base with gu and ducati, there is not a player base with nooby servers. |
| 23:12.08 | soxs | consistency, don't forget that. |
| 23:12.30 | blast007 | consistency? in BZFlag? hahahahahahahaha |
| 23:12.43 | kierra | tbo, missile wars and castle warfare are consistently at the top |
| 23:12.56 | kierra | mostly with non league players |
| 23:13.11 | blast007 | sure, it's consistent. Also, we have a very detailed plan for BZFlag development and progress. |
| 23:13.12 | kierra | league players obviously keep gu/duc going |
| 23:13.14 | soxs | correct, for how long have they been playing bzflag kierra? |
| 23:13.28 | soxs | those noobish players keep around? |
| 23:13.29 | kierra | some, for a long time, sox |
| 23:13.32 | soxs | appears not. |
| 23:13.49 | kierra | green manalishi, swigg and more |
| 23:14.00 | kierra | gravity |
| 23:14.07 | soxs | 3?, gu and ducati have atleast 40 active players. |
| 23:14.12 | kierra | i dont play there but will sit in obs |
| 23:14.43 | kierra | soxs, just because i cant name them off the top of my head doesnt mean there are just 3 |
| 23:15.03 | soxs | i need to see the facts like blast told me :) |
| 23:15.06 | kierra | i don't play there but will occasionally sit in obs watching....when gu/duc are dead |
| 23:15.08 | blast007 | ooo, let's make soxs name the 40 players from GU off the top of his head! |
| 23:15.21 | blast007 | soxs: unfortunately, I don't really care ;) |
| 23:15.22 | kierra | he prob can bec he plays there |
| 23:15.29 | soxs | i am very active blast. |
| 23:15.34 | blast007 | how nice |
| 23:15.46 | blast007 | but active players doesn't mean the game will be developed |
| 23:15.48 | soxs | so yes i would be on the top 40 common sense tells me |
| 23:16.33 | soxs | as i have said, the game doesn't need to be developed. |
| 23:16.45 | blast007 | yes, it does |
| 23:16.51 | blast007 | because it is buggy |
| 23:16.53 | soxs | you are looking in the wrong ways to increase activity, use what you have. |
| 23:17.00 | blast007 | what we have it crap |
| 23:17.01 | soxs | half the noobs won't even notice the bugs. |
| 23:17.02 | blast007 | is* |
| 23:17.06 | blast007 | yes, they do |
| 23:17.11 | soxs | they don't |
| 23:17.15 | blast007 | when 32-bit linux can't go through some teleporters, they notice |
| 23:17.31 | soxs | use windows or mac, problem solved. |
| 23:17.52 | blast007 | "This game requires a $2000 computer with white plastic" |
| 23:18.07 | soxs | my $100 dell xps works great :) |
| 23:19.30 | soxs | tell godaddy.com that there advertisements during the super bowl are pointless. |
| 23:19.57 | blast007 | godaddy has a good product |
| 23:20.00 | jh` | but anyway blast, is the motd change possible? |
| 23:20.08 | blast007 | jh`: anything is possible |
| 23:20.10 | jh` | it would not be a big job |
| 23:20.15 | blast007 | the word you are looking for is "likely" |
| 23:20.24 | jh` | just to try |
| 23:20.28 | blast007 | no |
| 23:21.03 | soxs | blast007: you are missing the picture, advertisements are great, i never new this website even existed prior to the super bowl. |
| 23:21.24 | jh` | no as in it wont happen? |
| 23:21.32 | blast007 | jh`: exactly |
| 23:21.47 | soxs | just like many bzflag players don't know about leagues, perhaps these players are looking for something a big more competitive? |
| 23:22.30 | jh` | ok |
| 23:22.36 | soxs | bit* |
| 23:25.16 | blast007 | soxs: I think more of them are looking for the 'jump' key :P |
| 23:25.20 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@cpe-75-81-201-131.we.res.rr.com) |
| 23:25.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:25.38 | soxs | there is a league for that. |
| 23:25.51 | soxs | also even 3 shots. |
| 23:30.18 | soxs | lol @ blasts post |
| 23:30.50 | blast007 | :P |
| 23:38.43 | soxs | blast no more post? |
| 23:55.40 | *** join/#bzflag aznable (02264136@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.38.65.54) |
