| 00:06.03 | kierra | blast007: ping ....pm at your convenience |
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| 00:47.20 | blast007 | JeffM2501: heh, that sounds bad ;D |
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| 13:08.07 | honeytank | hey all |
| 13:08.17 | honeytank | i got a question |
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| 13:20.56 | Constitution | wonders what it was |
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| 13:21.07 | kierra | :) |
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| 15:20.05 | honeytank | anybody on here? |
| 15:20.05 | mrapple | honeytank: what was your question. im dying to know now |
| 15:20.11 | honeytank | lol |
| 15:20.22 | mrapple | yes infact there are 59 people here ;) |
| 15:20.26 | honeytank | it was just is it possible to apply options like no rico to a specified object? |
| 15:20.33 | mrapple | no |
| 15:20.37 | honeytank | bah! |
| 15:20.40 | mrapple | its possible in 2.99 though |
| 15:20.46 | honeytank | darn bzf |
| 15:20.47 | honeytank | ... |
| 15:20.50 | mrapple | well you could make a box outside that one |
| 15:20.58 | honeytank | huh? |
| 15:21.03 | mrapple | then make it a mesh then set the outside shootthrough |
| 15:21.14 | mrapple | so the shot sticks to the wall |
| 15:21.34 | honeytank | i dont even get whatya mean |
| 15:21.40 | mrapple | ill show you |
| 15:21.43 | mrapple | makes an example |
| 15:22.39 | honeytank | * |
| 15:23.01 | honeytank | is waiting for that example! |
| 15:23.10 | mrapple | patience is a virtue |
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| 15:24.39 | honeytank | will wait upto its done... |
| 15:25.23 | mrapple | its done |
| 15:26.34 | mrapple | bzextreme.com:4000 |
| 15:43.04 | *** join/#bzflag honeytank (~honeytank@dyndsl-091-096-127-198.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:46.47 | honeytank | one more question! |
| 15:49.34 | mrapple | ok |
| 15:50.56 | honeytank | is it possible to define the world size like 200 100 80? |
| 15:51.02 | mrapple | world |
| 15:51.04 | mrapple | size 200 |
| 15:51.04 | mrapple | end |
| 15:51.09 | honeytank | or is it a square at all? |
| 15:51.12 | mrapple | no |
| 15:51.20 | mrapple | it must be a square |
| 15:51.36 | honeytank | i would like a world with 100 225 30 |
| 15:52.37 | me1 | you can make fake walls and define spawn zones so you only spawn in the area you want, but the actual world must be square |
| 15:52.56 | mrapple | you would like? then go make it ;) |
| 15:53.11 | mrapple | im not the 'map handyman' ;) |
| 15:53.17 | me1 | what's the "30", height? |
| 15:53.32 | mrapple | yah i dont know why you would put a limit on height |
| 15:53.47 | honeytank | hmm |
| 15:54.01 | honeytank | i just need a non square wold :P |
| 15:54.16 | me1 | make the world the size of the larger dimention |
| 15:54.26 | me1 | and then create fake walls to make it rectangular |
| 15:54.36 | mrapple | yah thats what i did on my original paintball map |
| 15:55.43 | honeytank | hmm |
| 15:55.45 | blast007 | and then spawn zones to keep them inside, and death physics to kill them if they escape |
| 15:56.22 | honeytank | silly bzf |
| 15:56.32 | blast007 | more like silly honeytank |
| 15:56.36 | honeytank | hmm |
| 15:56.56 | honeytank | bzflag should have the possibilliy for world size 100 200 50 end |
| 15:57.10 | honeytank | and for define options to single objects |
| 15:57.13 | blast007 | make it then |
| 15:57.19 | blast007 | write the code :) |
| 15:57.28 | honeytank | im not a developer, but you are |
| 15:57.32 | honeytank | do it yourself |
| 15:57.59 | blast007 | I would, but I am le tired |
| 15:58.22 | honeytank | aw |
| 15:58.41 | blast007 | but no, I actually wouldn't ;) |
| 15:59.02 | honeytank | :) |
| 16:00.10 | mrapple | ~bzflist |
| 16:00.17 | mrapple | hm |
| 16:00.43 | mrapple | blast007: im getting a - every thing i try :( |
| 16:02.29 | honeytank | ~bzflist |
| 16:02.39 | honeytank | i copyied that :P |
| 16:03.45 | mrapple | ~bzflist |
| 16:03.55 | mrapple | wier |
| 16:03.56 | mrapple | wierd |
| 16:05.41 | honeytank | ~bzflist |
| 16:05.45 | honeytank | s=200 |
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| 16:14.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JefferyM] by ChanServ |
| 16:16.35 | honeytank | meh i want voice status |
| 16:19.00 | kierra | lol |
| 16:19.31 | kierra | hello JefferyM :) |
| 16:19.38 | JefferyM | hello |
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| 16:32.27 | honeytank | he died once... |
| 16:32.32 | honeytank | haha i died twice! |
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| 17:07.16 | honeytank | so jeffm is still here? |
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| 17:08.52 | honeytank | jeff jeff? |
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| 17:09.30 | honeytank | hey temp |
| 17:10.58 | joevano | honeytank: this is not yahoo chat... this is irc |
| 17:11.20 | joevano | we hang out here 24 hours a day and are not always available |
| 17:11.42 | joevano | say what you need to.. then wait for an answer |
| 17:12.41 | honeytank | true true |
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| 17:27.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:39.44 | AAA_awright | Hrh |
| 17:40.07 | honeytank | want ChanServ to be kind and give Op-Status to honeytank |
| 17:43.59 | blast007 | honeytank: then make your own channel and set it up that way :P |
| 17:44.22 | honeytank | hmm |
| 17:44.29 | honeytank | you wont ever get voice status there then |
| 17:44.51 | blast007 | You'd assuming I'd join there ;) |
| 17:44.54 | blast007 | you're* |
| 17:44.59 | JefferyM | ?? |
| 17:44.59 | bryjen | being an admin is no fun. people expect you to "do something about it," *right now*, when other people annoy them |
| 17:45.07 | JefferyM | huh what? sorry I was workin |
| 17:45.30 | JefferyM | why would we need to give you ops? |
| 17:45.37 | bryjen | and the the other people go on about how you're not "fair" |
| 17:46.08 | JefferyM | and voice dosn't matter here, it is only set for some people because the channel has had to be locked down sometimes |
| 17:46.21 | honeytank | yes, nice new map jeff jeff |
| 17:46.32 | JefferyM | map? what? |
| 17:46.37 | honeytank | or ncie old map is popular now |
| 17:46.51 | bryjen | was mostly ranting about being a bzfs admin |
| 17:46.51 | JefferyM | I have no idea what you are talking about |
| 17:46.56 | honeytank | hmm |
| 17:47.06 | JefferyM | bryjen, inded it sometimes sucks :) |
| 17:47.09 | Constitution | I was going to say, JefferyM continues to reveal his hidden talents |
| 17:47.21 | honeytank | lal |
| 17:47.25 | Constitution | map creation being the latest apparently |
| 17:47.36 | honeytank | hes ho consto |
| 17:47.41 | Constitution | honeytank: use english here, please |
| 17:47.42 | JefferyM | I made a map once |
| 17:47.53 | JefferyM | for rabbit chase |
| 17:47.58 | honeytank | i cant speak english... |
| 17:48.08 | JefferyM | then perhaps this isn't the channel for you |
| 17:48.14 | JefferyM | if you continue to be silly you will be removed |
| 17:48.15 | honeytank | i can speak spanish |
| 17:48.43 | Constitution | JefferyM: was it this famed 4-box map? http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/images/1/12/BoxeAppearance.png |
| 17:48.58 | JefferyM | nope |
| 17:48.59 | Constitution | oh nvm I count 5 |
| 17:49.03 | JefferyM | it was called run rabbit run |
| 17:49.14 | JefferyM | I don't know where it is now |
| 17:49.31 | bryjen | in the interwebs! |
| 17:49.38 | JefferyM | somewhere I hope |
| 17:49.43 | mrapple | *googles* |
| 17:49.59 | sigonasr2 | Now that the excitement's over. *Goes back to figuring out the inner workings of calculus* |
| 17:49.59 | mrapple | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=800 |
| 17:50.15 | JefferyM | yeah there ya go |
| 17:50.26 | mrapple | tries it out |
| 17:51.16 | mrapple | cool map |
| 17:51.19 | sigonasr2 | I like how the original post is worded |
| 17:51.22 | JefferyM | Constitution, having writen BZEdit one would hope I knew how to use it ;) |
| 17:52.06 | Constitution | yeah |
| 17:52.39 | joevano | only one of the people who commented on it even plays (very rarely) anymore |
| 17:53.24 | bryjen | it is from 2003 |
| 17:53.51 | joevano | yep... so either they all died or were able to kick the habbit |
| 17:54.03 | JefferyM | perhaps the map is fatal |
| 17:54.47 | mrapple | jeff what license is that map under |
| 17:55.45 | JefferyM | CC:BY |
| 17:55.54 | mrapple | ok thanks |
| 17:56.23 | JefferyM | just don't say you made it ;) |
| 17:56.33 | bryjen | neither you nor I are dead |
| 17:56.53 | JefferyM | bryjen, I never played it ;) |
| 17:57.15 | Constitution | looks like the map was posted before the days of vigorous demands and DMCA takedown notices for bz maps... though we all have fond memories of those episodes |
| 17:57.30 | JefferyM | yeah it was |
| 17:57.33 | JefferyM | I fixed it |
| 17:57.56 | Constitution | I was joking, but ok :) |
| 17:58.10 | JefferyM | hey I should at least abide by the rules I made up :) |
| 17:59.36 | Bambino | I personally like this map best: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=3373 |
| 17:59.43 | Bambino | it was also made by Jeff |
| 18:03.24 | mrapple | puts it up |
| 18:03.30 | bryjen | I thought you were in there when I was. But that would mean you'd played BZ this decade ;) |
| 18:04.33 | JefferyM | heh, Bambino yoj know that's a joke right? |
| 18:05.07 | honeytank | man i tried amegedon |
| 18:05.07 | Bambino | Yes |
| 18:05.10 | honeytank | awesome map |
| 18:05.36 | honeytank | What is today? Today is what? |
| 18:05.38 | JefferyM | tho I did later write a quake map importer for model tool |
| 18:05.47 | Bambino | honeytank: look at the post date |
| 18:06.02 | honeytank | yes :) |
| 18:09.24 | mrapple | this made my day http://cl.ly/1a81143ecc0441a31039 |
| 18:11.44 | JefferyM | yeah there were some gullables back then |
| 18:12.18 | mrapple | heh |
| 18:13.31 | Bambino | and ducatiwannabe made around 1000 maps back then, surprised he didn't catch on. |
| 18:15.46 | mrapple | bzflag3.bzextreme.com:5176 if anyone wants to play jeffms rabbit map |
| 18:16.12 | mrapple | jeffm: four shots and a few good flags sound ok? |
| 18:16.51 | JefferyM | mrapple, I dunno, it's your server |
| 18:16.53 | JefferyM | figure it out |
| 18:17.07 | mrapple | well its your map ;) |
| 18:17.09 | JefferyM | so |
| 18:17.12 | JefferyM | map != game |
| 18:17.31 | mrapple | the map determines the gameplay |
| 18:17.49 | JefferyM | no the map can enhance the gameplay |
| 18:17.56 | JefferyM | thinking like that is why bzflag is stagnating |
| 18:18.07 | JefferyM | the map runs fine with no flags IIRC |
| 18:18.25 | JefferyM | it's rabbit chase, so it's all about killing the white guy |
| 18:18.36 | mrapple | yah i added one of each good flag |
| 18:18.46 | JefferyM | if I had my druthers the rabbit would not even be able to shoot |
| 18:18.51 | JefferyM | and hunters could not kill each other |
| 18:19.02 | JefferyM | make it proper CTC |
| 18:29.24 | SpazzyMcGee | How is the score in rabbit actually calculated |
| 18:30.32 | SpazzyMcGee | I've been playing for I don't know how long, and I still don't know |
| 18:31.19 | trepan | Player::getRabbitScore() |
| 18:35.54 | *** join/#bzflag jh` (jh@212-149-249-87.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
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| 20:09.50 | bryjen | "proper CTC" ? |
| 20:25.41 | *** join/#bzflag honeytank (~honeytank@dyndsl-091-096-127-198.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:31.43 | JefferyM | Capture the Chicken |
| 20:32.29 | honeytank | rofl |
| 20:33.08 | allejo | can we dress up a tank as a chicken in 3.0? |
| 20:33.55 | temporalD | if you write some skinning code :) |
| 20:40.42 | echelon | http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/164212-1/Football_spike.gif |
| 20:41.19 | mrapple | echelon: and that belongs here why? |
| 20:41.34 | echelon | oh, wrong channel :/ |
| 20:41.43 | mrapple | heh ;) |
| 20:41.49 | echelon | :) |
| 20:41.51 | mrapple | hate it when that happens |
| 20:42.02 | mrapple | i do it all the time *sigh* |
| 20:42.26 | echelon | i'm titmouse btw |
| 20:42.34 | mrapple | ah |
| 20:42.38 | *** join/#bzflag McYukon (~McYukon@xplr-ts-v10-208-114-184-180.barrettxplore.com) |
| 20:44.54 | allejo | in 3.0 you can create custom flags. would you be able to give these custom flags a different color or different texture? |
| 20:45.55 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@cpe-76-183-45-237.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 21:03.44 | mrapple | allejo: that could mean a rogue team flag :D |
| 21:46.13 | mrapple | allejo: as of now you can not set custom textures/colors |
| 22:02.19 | JefferyM | CTC it a quake mod where there is a pickup called "the chicken", you get points for how long you hold the chicken, when you have the chicken you can't shoot. Those with out the chicken can't hurt each other. |
| 22:03.39 | echelon | ahh |
| 22:04.37 | blast007 | could do that as a mod/plugin in 2.99.x |
| 22:07.12 | temporalD | rename the US flag CH |
| 22:07.20 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (~jolie@unaffiliated/kierra) |
| 22:08.09 | *** join/#bzflag McSpider (~McSpider@xplr-ts-v10-208-114-184-180.barrettxplore.com) |
| 22:08.24 | mrapple | temporalD: or just make a CH flag |
| 22:08.48 | allejo | JefferyM: so it is like a rabbit hunt except the rabbit can't? |
| 22:09.10 | mrapple | and hunters cant tk |
| 22:09.22 | SpazzyMcGee | I think it's safe to a assume that EVERYTHING is possible as a plugin in 2.99.x |
| 22:09.47 | mrapple | heh |
| 22:10.12 | SpazzyMcGee | You mark my words - it'll bring about world peace |
| 22:10.29 | JefferyM | allejo, and scoring would be different |
| 22:10.31 | JefferyM | based on time |
| 22:11.39 | JefferyM | SpazzyMcGee, no I don't think it would be possible with a plugin, probably with a lua script, but not a plugin |
| 22:11.50 | allejo | SpazzyMcGee: i think i can prove you wrong about "everything is possible as a plugin in 2.99.x". you can't make a tank look like a chicken or sound like a chicken ;) |
| 22:13.17 | allejo | JefferyM: for 2.99.x lua scripts, will there be an API for lua scripts just like there is an API for plugins? |
| 22:13.27 | JefferyM | yeah that's how it works |
| 22:13.48 | SpazzyMcGee | you just call the worldPeace API |
| 22:13.50 | JefferyM | a bunch of functions are exposed to the lua system on the server and the client |
| 22:14.38 | JefferyM | solve world hunger, then you'll be a way tward world peace |
| 22:14.38 | SpazzyMcGee | the energy crisis too |
| 22:14.48 | delusional | yeah, i'm tired |
| 22:15.06 | JefferyM | people can live with out what we call engergy, but yes that would help as well |
| 22:15.19 | JefferyM | it's hard to live with out food, and it's easy to justify killing for food |
| 22:15.53 | SpazzyMcGee | It's going to be bad if all the bees die out |
| 22:15.57 | JefferyM | but lua will allow more things simply because it has a client side compoenent |
| 22:16.11 | JefferyM | where the C++ API is server only |
| 22:17.34 | allejo | then i guess i'll start learning lua now |
| 22:18.48 | JefferyM | heh, 3.0 has to ship before that would become useful |
| 22:20.41 | JefferyM | temporalD, you don't have to rename flags in V3, it supports custom flags |
| 22:21.00 | SpazzyMcGee | I thought custom flags were vetoed by the powers that be? |
| 22:21.08 | JefferyM | no |
| 22:21.12 | JefferyM | combo flags were |
| 22:21.20 | JefferyM | custom flags are just names |
| 22:21.23 | JefferyM | and shot types |
| 22:21.59 | SpazzyMcGee | will it support changing BZDB vars on a per-tank basis? |
| 22:22.03 | JefferyM | no |
| 22:22.09 | JefferyM | that has nothing to do with flags |
| 22:22.22 | JefferyM | and what you want has nothing to do with bzdb |
| 22:22.31 | JefferyM | you want per tank physics |
| 22:22.43 | SpazzyMcGee | you know what I mean |
| 22:22.46 | JefferyM | I do |
| 22:22.59 | SpazzyMcGee | So the 'custom flags' are really just placeholders for use by plugins |
| 22:23.06 | JefferyM | but when you say "per tank BZDB" you could confuse someone who may want to implement it |
| 22:23.20 | SpazzyMcGee | for example in your Chicken game |
| 22:23.22 | JefferyM | you can set a shot type |
| 22:23.35 | JefferyM | and implement any server side logic you want using the API |
| 22:23.40 | JefferyM | but they do not change client behavor |
| 22:23.43 | SpazzyMcGee | but you could do that with a plugin anyway |
| 22:23.48 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah |
| 22:23.50 | JefferyM | sort of |
| 22:24.00 | JefferyM | you would have to overide an existing flag |
| 22:24.02 | JefferyM | like useless |
| 22:24.12 | JefferyM | and that can be problematic if you want more then one |
| 22:24.19 | JefferyM | this way the client knows the flag's name |
| 22:24.24 | JefferyM | and you can have more then one |
| 22:24.44 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah |
| 22:24.47 | SpazzyMcGee | cool |
| 22:24.50 | JefferyM | so like if you wanted a "red key" flag that would teleport you to the red base it woudl be easy |
| 22:24.52 | blast007 | and if you override, say, steamroller.. it will still have the tank crushing effect? |
| 22:25.04 | JefferyM | yes, since the base flag is still SR |
| 22:25.12 | mrapple | wow cool |
| 22:25.15 | JefferyM | I don't think you can change a stock flag's name |
| 22:25.25 | mrapple | JefferyM: er i think you can *looks* |
| 22:25.30 | JefferyM | custom flags are not derived from existing flags |
| 22:25.41 | JefferyM | all of the client effects are based off the flag type enum |
| 22:25.47 | SpazzyMcGee | Can you change the appearance of your custom flag? |
| 22:25.57 | JefferyM | there is only one flag model |
| 22:25.58 | mrapple | hm maybe not |
| 22:26.02 | SpazzyMcGee | i.e. make it appear to be a team flag |
| 22:26.06 | JefferyM | I don't think so |
| 22:26.12 | JefferyM | well with lua, probably |
| 22:26.26 | JefferyM | lua lets you do all kinds of stuff on the client, including drawing IIRC |
| 22:26.33 | mrapple | wow |
| 22:26.35 | mrapple | sounds awesome |
| 22:26.59 | SpazzyMcGee | Well, i'm looking forward to BZFlag 3.0, if not just for the subtitle you're going to give it. |
| 22:27.05 | JefferyM | the point of adding the custom flags was just to prevent the need for "reusing" flags like useless |
| 22:27.25 | JefferyM | since we knew people would still do that |
| 22:27.36 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah |
| 22:27.39 | JefferyM | now what you CAN do with flags is change the default shot type |
| 22:27.44 | JefferyM | so SR could get a laser shot |
| 22:27.56 | SpazzyMcGee | (combo flags) |
| 22:27.59 | JefferyM | no |
| 22:28.03 | JefferyM | they are NOT full combos |
| 22:28.03 | SpazzyMcGee | just only shot types |
| 22:28.08 | JefferyM | yes |
| 22:28.11 | JefferyM | just the shot type |
| 22:28.24 | me1 | wg+gm? |
| 22:28.24 | SpazzyMcGee | so you can't have ST/CL. But you could have ST/GM |
| 22:28.26 | JefferyM | and GM is special |
| 22:28.32 | mrapple | ok i absolutley hate the new tank movement in 3.0 |
| 22:28.37 | mrapple | what vars change it? |
| 22:28.38 | JefferyM | the base flag would have to be WG, for the tank to get flight |
| 22:28.39 | blast007 | you can't lock with GM unless you have the GM flag, iirc |
| 22:28.45 | JefferyM | changing the shot type to GM would make it not lock |
| 22:28.45 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:28.55 | JefferyM | the GM flag is the thing that lets you right click to lock |
| 22:28.59 | blast007 | but you could have a CL that shoots Laser ;) |
| 22:29.03 | JefferyM | yes |
| 22:29.10 | JefferyM | but not ST/CL |
| 22:29.16 | JefferyM | or any silly combo like that |
| 22:29.18 | SpazzyMcGee | That would be lethal |
| 22:29.24 | SpazzyMcGee | no chance of shooting yourself |
| 22:29.35 | SpazzyMcGee | CL/L |
| 22:29.39 | JefferyM | then don't do that on your server ;) |
| 22:29.55 | SpazzyMcGee | I won't be |
| 22:30.06 | JefferyM | like all things with the API it does open up some silly/unfun situations |
| 22:30.29 | Murielle | mrapple: what kind of new movement? |
| 22:30.42 | mrapple | Murielle: the acceleration in 3.0 |
| 22:30.47 | JefferyM | it realy comes down to server owners making sure that it's a fun |
| 22:30.49 | JefferyM | game |
| 22:31.17 | Murielle | the acceleration ? |
| 22:31.35 | JefferyM | acceleration is on by default in V3 |
| 22:31.35 | mrapple | yes |
| 22:31.46 | mrapple | and its horrible in my opinon |
| 22:31.48 | JefferyM | -a was removed and replaced with 2 bzdb vars |
| 22:31.55 | JefferyM | you can change the vars |
| 22:31.56 | mrapple | yes im trying to remember what they are |
| 22:32.19 | JefferyM | you think that tanks should be able to change direction in 0 time? ;) |
| 22:32.34 | JefferyM | having acceleration also helps mask some of the lag jumps as well |
| 22:32.39 | Murielle | what is acceleration? is it like in room mode with the slow key enabled? |
| 22:32.49 | mrapple | er i want -a 0 0 in 3.0 |
| 22:32.52 | mrapple | how do i do it ;D |
| 22:32.55 | JefferyM | set the vars |
| 22:32.59 | mrapple | which are |
| 22:33.10 | JefferyM | they have the word acceleration in them IIRC |
| 22:33.23 | JefferyM | Murielle, it prevents instant changes in speed/direction |
| 22:33.28 | JefferyM | or at least limtis them |
| 22:33.34 | Murielle | how to dodge then? |
| 22:33.46 | JefferyM | be allert ;) |
| 22:33.47 | blast007 | very carefully |
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| 22:34.04 | JefferyM | the default is not a slow acceleration IIRC |
| 22:34.12 | JefferyM | it's just not instant |
| 22:34.27 | Bambino | I can already tell the leagues won't like it |
| 22:34.41 | JefferyM | everyone fears change for a bit |
| 22:34.44 | sigonasr2 | I think it's cool. Adds a new element to dodging. More dodging |
| 22:34.49 | Murielle | isnt it a things that is imposed by server? |
| 22:34.59 | JefferyM | Murielle, yes it's controlled by a set of variables |
| 22:35.04 | McSpider | mrapple: _inertiaAngular & _inertiaLinear |
| 22:35.06 | JefferyM | the owner can tweak it as they see fit |
| 22:35.10 | JefferyM | mrapple, nope |
| 22:35.17 | Murielle | oh ok |
| 22:35.20 | JefferyM | IIRC that's for the inertia flag ;) |
| 22:35.29 | JefferyM | I think it's just tankaccel |
| 22:35.34 | JefferyM | or tankvel or something |
| 22:35.34 | Murielle | there is already this in 2.xservers, right? |
| 22:35.39 | JefferyM | no |
| 22:35.51 | blast007 | there's no "inertia" flag. there is "momemtum" |
| 22:35.55 | JefferyM | the -a option is not on by default on 2.0.x servers |
| 22:35.58 | SpazzyMcGee | Inertia flag =! momentum flag? |
| 22:36.00 | Murielle | but there are some servers that claims "acceleration limit" |
| 22:36.09 | JefferyM | yeah they have it turned on |
| 22:36.14 | Murielle | oki see |
| 22:36.15 | mrapple | JefferyM: inertia values are correct |
| 22:36.16 | JefferyM | it's just not on by default |
| 22:36.18 | JefferyM | ok |
| 22:36.20 | mrapple | McSpider was right |
| 22:36.21 | JefferyM | then they ya go |
| 22:36.33 | mrapple | thanks |
| 22:36.43 | McSpider | your welcome |
| 22:37.19 | JefferyM | in the end with bz, lag is what determines who wins |
| 22:37.35 | JefferyM | it is a slave to latency |
| 22:38.50 | Murielle | some people can handle the lag of opponents |
| 22:39.01 | JefferyM | some can some can't |
| 22:39.16 | JefferyM | but in the end it is how you deal with that lag that determines if you win |
| 22:39.27 | mrapple | with the inertia values set i still feel wierd turning :( |
| 22:39.29 | JefferyM | it's not realy a tank game, but a lag compensation game ;) |
| 22:39.31 | Murielle | some people play with their lag as a weapon:p |
| 22:39.35 | jh` | yo jeff:) |
| 22:39.36 | JefferyM | it is |
| 22:39.56 | JefferyM | in a proper game the end users should never care about lag |
| 22:40.03 | Murielle | is there a way to help people to handle the lags? |
| 22:40.20 | JefferyM | the game should compensate it away to make it only a minor problem for those with very high lags |
| 22:40.22 | blast007 | Murielle: yeah. -lagwarn 50 -lagdrop 1 |
| 22:40.28 | JefferyM | yeah rewrite bzflag ;) |
| 22:40.33 | Murielle | blast007: :P |
| 22:40.40 | JefferyM | you don't see other games having as much problems with it |
| 22:40.43 | Murielle | blast007: you better shurgs |
| 22:40.49 | Murielle | shrug* |
| 22:41.04 | blast007 | many real-time games become unplayable past 80 or 100 ms of latency |
| 22:41.17 | Murielle | why is bzflag more sensitive to lag than other, JefferyM? |
| 22:41.21 | blast007 | or at least, get real sucky |
| 22:41.25 | blast007 | it's less sensitive |
| 22:41.31 | JefferyM | because it was not made to be played over the internet |
| 22:41.40 | JefferyM | and does nothing to compensate for it |
| 22:41.43 | Murielle | really? |
| 22:41.47 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:41.49 | blast007 | if you had 300ms of lag in Left 4 Dead, you wouldn't be able to play |
| 22:41.56 | blast007 | 150ms is bad enough in that game |
| 22:42.11 | jh` | do other internet games compensate lag? |
| 22:42.13 | JefferyM | blast yeah but is the diff between someone with 100 ms and 250ms that big? |
| 22:42.17 | JefferyM | yeah everyone else does |
| 22:42.19 | Murielle | that is what blast007 said |
| 22:42.30 | trepan | has anyone tested custom flags? |
| 22:42.31 | JefferyM | bzflag is a lan game |
| 22:42.41 | blast007 | JefferyM: I don't know. Not even the zombies charging towards you move smoothly when you lag in that game. |
| 22:42.43 | JefferyM | it was made with the assumption that lag woudl be under a frame time |
| 22:42.50 | JefferyM | trepan, not in a long while |
| 22:43.05 | trepan | they were broken when I tried them, iirc |
| 22:43.08 | JefferyM | blast007, well that is a very server intensive game |
| 22:43.14 | blast007 | yup |
| 22:43.26 | JefferyM | a lot of lag masking is done with game mechanincs |
| 22:43.28 | Murielle | cant we imagine an interface in the hud in order to help to guess where the laggy is? |
| 22:43.36 | JefferyM | the fact that shots do a base damage + some random |
| 22:43.51 | JefferyM | Murielle, if you are going to do that why not just fix the game ;) |
| 22:43.59 | trepan | Murielle: MsgLagInfo + client-side lua script |
| 22:44.06 | Murielle | it can be fixed? |
| 22:44.10 | JefferyM | sure |
| 22:44.13 | jh` | lol |
| 22:44.16 | JefferyM | lag compensation is not a mystic art |
| 22:44.21 | trepan | mitigated might be more accurate |
| 22:44.22 | JefferyM | everyone else in the world has done it |
| 22:44.23 | jh` | just download the source |
| 22:44.25 | blast007 | step 1) rm -rf |
| 22:44.25 | trepan | it can not be fixed |
| 22:44.31 | Murielle | where can i learn that art? |
| 22:44.42 | JefferyM | yeah it can be miticated to the point wher it is not the major thing affecting gameplay |
| 22:44.44 | trepan | (unless you count flying everyone into the location as a fix ;) |
| 22:44.49 | JefferyM | it's science not art ;) |
| 22:45.06 | trepan | again, it depends on how much lag there is |
| 22:45.07 | JefferyM | there are many methods of syncing networked game states |
| 22:45.09 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:45.16 | Murielle | blast007: ok..i did rm -fr... and now? |
| 22:45.19 | JefferyM | but there are way better method's then BZs |
| 22:45.21 | jh` | i doubt lag compensation will nevef be done |
| 22:45.34 | trepan | if all of your players have 2 second round-trip lags, gameplay will be hurtin', period |
| 22:45.36 | JefferyM | it has been done, just not in bzflag |
| 22:45.45 | JefferyM | yeah there are limits of what you can mask |
| 22:46.03 | Murielle | how can it be lasked? |
| 22:46.07 | Murielle | masked* |
| 22:46.11 | JefferyM | lots of ways |
| 22:46.23 | JefferyM | there are branches of CS dedicated to methods |
| 22:46.35 | JefferyM | go read some game programing books :) |
| 22:46.49 | Murielle | yeah...after school i will do |
| 22:46.57 | Murielle | no..after homeworks |
| 22:47.04 | Murielle | uhno....after sleeping |
| 22:47.15 | Murielle | uhnon no no no.after school |
| 22:47.22 | Murielle | oups..a loop |
| 22:49.53 | Murielle | would it be server side compensation or client side? |
| 22:51.45 | JefferyM | optimaly you'd have a system that did it on both sides |
| 22:51.57 | JefferyM | and had the server arbitrate any discrepancies |
| 22:52.26 | JefferyM | people with fairly consistent lag would have few discrepancies |
| 22:52.43 | JefferyM | but there are many methods |
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| 22:53.00 | JefferyM | from all client prediction, to all server input processing |
| 22:53.19 | JefferyM | different games use different methods depending on the effects they want to acheive and what is important to them |
| 22:53.29 | jh` | rofl sounds like hard job to me |
| 22:53.35 | JefferyM | not really |
| 22:53.43 | JefferyM | there are many examples out there now |
| 22:53.46 | trepan | ex: rts vs. fps have significantly different constraints |
| 22:53.56 | Murielle | so we could do it with a plugin? |
| 22:53.59 | JefferyM | many comercial games are open sources |
| 22:54.05 | JefferyM | no you'd need a LOT more then a plugin |
| 22:54.15 | trepan | Murielle: you could do it with lua scripts |
| 22:54.20 | JefferyM | yeah for RTS position and command order are VERY important |
| 22:54.27 | Murielle | trepan: ah? |
| 22:54.36 | JefferyM | you could rewrite most of the game as a lua script ;) |
| 22:54.49 | trepan | the big difference between FPS and RTS netsim setups are the unit counts |
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| 22:55.17 | Murielle | oh trepan, i am looking for a good lua tutorial (or a scanned pdf, djvu, book if u have) on lua :) |
| 22:55.35 | jh` | lady of plugins:) |
| 22:55.37 | trepan | lua.org -- read the 5.1 manual and the PIL |
| 22:55.38 | blast007 | google down or something? |
| 22:55.41 | Murielle | :D |
| 22:56.03 | Murielle | i hope they wont tell"onur psp machine..." |
| 22:56.16 | Murielle | "on ur psp machine..." |
| 22:56.24 | trepan | also, the SpringRTS project have very similar lua scripting environments |
| 22:57.22 | trepan | you could start here: http://springrts.com/wiki/Lua_Scripting (the OpenGL interface is much the same, except that BZ's is currently better) |
| 22:59.07 | Murielle | thank you |
| 22:59.12 | Murielle | bookmarked |
| 23:02.59 | JefferyM | internet game programing is not a new field, there are lots of places to get good idea's / code, just a 16 year old lan game isn't the best place to look ;) |
| 23:10.04 | Murielle | what is 16 years old? |
| 23:10.08 | Murielle | bzflag? |
| 23:11.44 | blast007 | yeah |
| 23:12.16 | blast007 | Murielle: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Project_History |
| 23:17.51 | jh` | she is really the lady of plugins:) |
| 23:18.44 | JefferyM | yeah it's very old |
| 23:18.53 | JefferyM | it was never intended to be used in the way it is used now |
| 23:20.38 | Murielle | interesting story!! very nice before going to sleep. I hope the whle story will finihs well "and they lived happy and had a kot of little tanks" |
| 23:22.28 | JefferyM | naw it'll probably end "and then development tapered off unitll nobody was working on it anymore and people stoped playing it" |
| 23:26.09 | SpazzyMcGee | It hasn't really changed that much. the main change is more versatile worlds |
| 23:26.41 | SpazzyMcGee | plugins are a big change, but gameplay-changing plugins aren't in widespread use among the popular servers |
| 23:27.34 | JefferyM | this is true |
| 23:27.47 | JefferyM | but therre are different levels of change ;) |
| 23:27.55 | JefferyM | you can change the code but keep the same gameplay |
| 23:28.09 | JefferyM | and just make it more robust in a modern environment |
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| 23:39.01 | trepan | SpazzyMcGee: Wings, that's got to be the biggest bestest change eva! |
| 23:40.29 | JefferyM | and to think it was initaly implemented as a joke ;) |
| 23:41.26 | trepan | ...and the comedy lingers |
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