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| 00:11.53 | robot1 | Tootoot222 |
| 00:13.39 | blast007 | ? |
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| 02:13.37 | dngor | Is it a known problem that l10n strings display hex instead of multibyte characters on OSX? |
| 02:14.05 | blast007 | on what version of the game? |
| 02:14.27 | dngor | 2.0.14. Haven't found a 2.0.16 build for OSX yet. |
| 02:14.42 | blast007 | 2.0.x does not support unicode |
| 02:15.09 | blast007 | the first version to support unicode will be 3.0.0 |
| 02:15.43 | dngor | Thanks! |
| 02:16.21 | blast007 | are you working on a translation? |
| 02:16.51 | dngor | My daughter's a long-time fan, and she's planning a Turkish translation. |
| 02:17.11 | blast007 | the development code is in SVN |
| 02:17.28 | blast007 | (the stuff that will become 3.0.0) |
| 02:17.51 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/SVN it's the trunk code, specifically /trunk/bzflag/ |
| 02:18.14 | blast007 | you'd have to build the source, though |
| 02:18.51 | dngor | So not the sourceforge repot? |
| 02:18.53 | blast007 | (also, regarding your previous comments about 2.0.16 and OSX - we have an official build of 2.0.16 for OSX posted on the SourceForge site) |
| 02:19.03 | blast007 | no, that's the wiki page above |
| 02:19.15 | blast007 | tells you how to get SVN |
| 02:19.19 | blast007 | the SVN code* |
| 02:19.38 | blast007 | we use sourceforge for our version control |
| 02:20.20 | blast007 | also, the Japanese locale shows an example of specifying a font file to use for the translation (since the default font didn't have the necessary characters) |
| 02:21.00 | DTRemenak | turkish should be able to use the default font (it's only missing the CJK codepages afaik) |
| 02:21.53 | DTRemenak | the russian translation is probably a closer example |
| 02:24.11 | dngor | OSX should be at http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzflag/files/ ? |
| 02:24.47 | blast007 | hmm, maybe I'm wrong |
| 02:25.19 | DTRemenak | dngor: 3.0 is not released yet, so it's not in the files section |
| 02:25.37 | temporalD | OSX 2.0.16 should be tho |
| 02:25.49 | blast007 | http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.0.x/MacOSX/BZFlag-2.0.16.dmg <--- guess it was never pushed to releases |
| 02:25.55 | blast007 | pokes Constitution |
| 02:26.00 | blast007 | Constitution: was that ready to be posted? |
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| 02:46.45 | delusional | the 2.0.16 build works fine for me... been using it a few weeks.. |
| 02:52.04 | dngor | The plan: I'll build from svn and give her a binary to use for translating. |
| 03:14.16 | Runic | bzfs crash - user loged in with -solo 6 (i think) after all logged out the crash happened - http://pastebin.com/YE9UaEnE |
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| 03:27.09 | dngor | shaves a yak called sdl 1.3 |
| 03:46.25 | delusional | runic, that was me |
| 03:47.48 | Runic | yes, it was but I've made the error happen before myself as well |
| 03:47.54 | delusional | dngor, is it yak shaving day already? |
| 03:48.44 | dngor | 2.99.59 needs SDL 1.3, which means building it for OSX, which means installing hg. |
| 03:49.12 | blast007 | oh cool, they switched away from SVN |
| 03:49.35 | blast007 | dngor: they do have snapshots from April 11th. |
| 03:50.21 | dngor | The hg part was trivial. Resolving a symbol conflict between SDL and X11 was a little harder. |
| 03:50.30 | blast007 | heh |
| 03:51.06 | blast007 | delusional: have you had to use SDL 1.3 when building trunk? |
| 03:51.12 | delusional | dngor.. it might SAY it requires 1.3, but it does not |
| 03:51.53 | blast007 | I think at one point it might have only worked with 1.3 |
| 03:52.26 | blast007 | like, shortly after 10.6 came out (and only on 10.6) |
| 03:52.31 | delusional | actually, i had problems when i had 1.3, they disappeared when i downgraded |
| 03:52.54 | delusional | and i'm on 10.6 |
| 03:53.03 | dngor | 10.5 here |
| 03:54.33 | dngor | 1.3 advertises better Unicode support, which sounds relevant. I'm building something to help someone make a translation. |
| 03:55.45 | dngor | If someone confirms 1.2.x is fine enough, I can back off the yak. |
| 03:56.02 | delusional | 1.2 is good eough |
| 03:56.05 | blast007 | we use SDL for input and sound. not sure if we use it for anything beyond that. |
| 03:56.06 | Runic | I using SDL-1.2.13 |
| 03:56.16 | blast007 | so the Unicode stuff is probably irrelevant |
| 03:56.42 | blast007 | oh, and I think for creating the window |
| 03:56.54 | dngor | Sweet. |
| 03:57.15 | blast007 | but the font system doesn't use SDL - it's FTGL, which uses Freetype to make the fonts |
| 03:57.31 | blast007 | s/make the fonts/render the TTFs to a texture/ :) |
| 04:07.08 | dngor | Turns out my SDL.framework was helpfully migrated from my ppc machine to my intel machine. LOL. |
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| 05:06.43 | BulletCatcher | IIRC, Constitution said that his beta build of 2.0.16 did not include SDL. |
| 05:06.45 | BulletCatcher | 2.0.16 ostensibly works without SDL on the Mac, but there may be occasional glitches. |
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| 05:15.47 | dngor | I got 2.99 built, but it links to shared libraries not on the target machine. I'll work on it more tomorrow. |
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| 11:58.33 | blast007 | dngor: yeah, there's some special "magic" done when making the mac packages to include things like SDL into the .app |
| 11:59.05 | blast007 | (or maybe the magic is done for other stuff - you could try building with xcode which is supposed to build a .app) |
| 12:53.18 | dngor | Choosing the right build helps. The development build succeeds. |
| 12:55.24 | dngor | Looks like I can get lirael_goldenhand a .app after all. :) Thanks! |
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| 16:08.04 | Constitution | morning Quol |
| 16:09.25 | blast007 | Constitution: what's the story with the beta build of 2.0.16 at http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.0.x/MacOSX/BZFlag-2.0.16.dmg ? |
| 16:09.42 | blast007 | bullet catcher was thinking it was without SDL? |
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| 16:16.17 | Constitution | blast007: the intel version worked as expected (with SDL), but somehow I could not get autotools to see the SDL on Panther/PPC, so apparently it built without it |
| 16:16.45 | blast007 | k |
| 16:16.54 | Constitution | I looked at it later to figure it out but it was behaving weirdly |
| 16:16.56 | blast007 | so it's half and half in the .app? or is the whole thing non-SDL? |
| 16:17.04 | Constitution | half and half |
| 16:17.08 | blast007 | hehe, nice |
| 16:17.15 | Constitution | yeah, soooo nice |
| 16:17.19 | blast007 | frankenapp |
| 16:17.30 | Constitution | probably we just need to drop panther already |
| 16:18.07 | Constitution | although 2.0.14 built perfectly fine on my ppc with panther before I reformatted it, so I dunno what the issue is |
| 16:18.22 | BulletCatcher | A non-SDL PPC version is better than none at all. |
| 16:18.37 | blast007 | well, is panther the problem? or is PPC the problem? |
| 16:18.41 | Constitution | it all seems to work fine except you can't f1 to a window and can't f4 to the dock |
| 16:18.50 | blast007 | 10.4 and 10.5 both have PPC versions |
| 16:19.05 | Constitution | panther is the issue I think, or maybe just my system |
| 16:20.02 | Constitution | I imagine if I did a fresh install of tiger and re-built, we would be golden |
| 16:21.44 | BulletCatcher | If you'll add instructions (however imperfect) for building the .app to the README.MacOSX file then I'll see how it works for me. |
| 16:22.45 | Constitution | dunno... I think brlcad would laugh at them ;) |
| 16:23.08 | blast007 | then after he's done laughing, he can make them better ;) |
| 16:23.12 | BulletCatcher | Exactly. |
| 16:23.33 | Constitution | heh ok |
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| 16:44.51 | Quol | afternoon Constitution |
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| 16:56.45 | CIA-86 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r21203 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/README.MacOSX: |
| 16:56.45 | CIA-86 | BZFlag: Added instructions for building release binaries on Mac OS X. Due to certain |
| 16:56.45 | CIA-86 | BZFlag: issues this process involves significant manual work with command-line tools. If |
| 16:56.45 | CIA-86 | BZFlag: possible, scripts should be created to make this process more automatic. |
| 16:57.47 | Constitution | JefferyM: you generated the .png and .fmt files for bz's fonts in branch, right? |
| 16:58.21 | JefferyM | nope |
| 16:58.27 | JefferyM | oh branch |
| 16:58.28 | JefferyM | yep |
| 16:58.44 | Constitution | did you use some tool or utility to generate them? |
| 16:58.59 | JefferyM | yes |
| 16:59.01 | JefferyM | why? |
| 16:59.27 | Constitution | curious how you did it... I need a really lightweight font implementation for a project of mine |
| 16:59.42 | JefferyM | lightweight in what way? |
| 17:00.11 | Constitution | as few external libraries as possible |
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| 17:01.01 | JefferyM | is quality and scaling of fonts a concern? |
| 17:01.06 | JefferyM | as well as extended characters? |
| 17:01.49 | Constitution | only scaling, which I plan to take care of in the code... although the end result may not be as good as I'm thinking |
| 17:01.52 | JefferyM | and do you already have an imaging libary? |
| 17:02.00 | Constitution | yes |
| 17:02.11 | JefferyM | how much do you have to scale them? |
| 17:02.20 | JefferyM | the more you scale them the more they look like crap |
| 17:02.32 | JefferyM | I have a simpler FTGL implementation then BZ uses |
| 17:02.45 | JefferyM | I find it much better then the older texture based sysem |
| 17:03.03 | JefferyM | but doing it with textures isnt' hard |
| 17:03.10 | Constitution | why is FTGL involved at all? isn't freetype the font rasterizer? |
| 17:03.12 | JefferyM | just make an app that can get the spacing info from the fonts |
| 17:03.29 | JefferyM | no, freetype is a tool for reading the glyph data from true type fonts |
| 17:03.41 | JefferyM | ftgl takes that glyph data and makes it into openGL calls |
| 17:03.49 | JefferyM | ether as cached textures or images |
| 17:03.59 | trepan | freetype is the font rasterizer |
| 17:04.12 | JefferyM | can it write to an image? |
| 17:04.26 | trepan | yes, that's its main reason for being |
| 17:04.29 | JefferyM | k |
| 17:04.41 | JefferyM | then freetype manages the GL state and caches it all out |
| 17:04.55 | JefferyM | you can do it with out ftgl, but you'd have to write some code that does parts of what FTGL does |
| 17:04.56 | trepan | no, freetype does not do GL |
| 17:04.58 | blast007 | ftgl* |
| 17:05.07 | JefferyM | sorry yeah I meant ftgl that last time |
| 17:05.11 | trepan | it generates memory images, which FTGL uploads into GL textures |
| 17:05.11 | JefferyM | are tired |
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| 17:05.51 | Constitution | so basically you made a little utility to do it? |
| 17:06.00 | JefferyM | if you want to do scaling, and you want to use image based fonts like branch does, plan on having a lot of data on disk for lots of font images. |
| 17:06.07 | JefferyM | yeah it's in source |
| 17:06.08 | JefferyM | fonttool |
| 17:06.15 | JefferyM | writen in MFC :) |
| 17:06.26 | JefferyM | but it can be redone in any system |
| 17:06.29 | JefferyM | it's very bassic |
| 17:06.37 | JefferyM | you could make one that used freetype directly |
| 17:06.48 | JefferyM | it just gets the spacing info from each letter and saves it out |
| 17:07.01 | JefferyM | then uses that to move each letter over |
| 17:07.07 | JefferyM | it's not prefect |
| 17:07.14 | JefferyM | it won't pick up kerning info and the like from the font |
| 17:07.22 | JefferyM | just simple spacing |
| 17:07.40 | JefferyM | freetype would be better to use for more accurate rendering |
| 17:08.47 | trepan | there's really no need to use FTGL at all to generate font texture atlases |
| 17:08.55 | trepan | just freetype + something to save images |
| 17:08.56 | JefferyM | probably not |
| 17:09.22 | JefferyM | just lets opentk do it |
| 17:09.30 | trepan | if you want to compartmentalize a wee bit, you could save the spacing information into a custom PNG block |
| 17:09.40 | JefferyM | true |
| 17:09.48 | trepan | (or "chunk", as they call them :) |
| 17:11.37 | Constitution | maybe by the time I write this utility and set the code up to read it, I might of well just have used freetype |
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| 17:13.59 | trepan | Constitution: what's the app? plan on rendering a lot of text? |
| 17:15.13 | Constitution | just need to display... er... fps, and maybe some debugging output. it's a rendering project I'm working on |
| 17:17.32 | JefferyM | it was REALY easy for me to use FTGL |
| 17:17.44 | JefferyM | that's it's advantage, it is very simple to get text on the screen |
| 17:18.18 | JefferyM | I think it has faults in speed and general use as a heavy text rendering system, as bzflag has shown ( tho that may be due to the way bz handles GL state ) |
| 17:18.33 | JefferyM | but it is very simple to use to just get text |
| 17:19.01 | JefferyM | when I used it I didn't have the same problems bz had, but I didn't have the same wacky renderiing loop |
| 17:19.09 | JefferyM | just just drew all my text at the same time |
| 17:19.56 | trepan | http://nehe.gamedev.net/data/lessons/lesson.asp?lesson=43 -- simple GL/freetype example |
| 17:20.35 | trepan | wasteful, but it might be good enough for your purposes |
| 17:21.46 | JefferyM | I don't think there is much place in this world (on a real computer ) for a font system that uses prerendered font images |
| 17:22.10 | JefferyM | it's simple enough to use the fonts directly (Freetype, etc..) and it looks a lot better |
| 17:22.38 | JefferyM | if it's on some kind of limited device, like a phone, sure. |
| 17:22.47 | trepan | pre-rendered fonts can be significantly faster |
| 17:22.48 | JefferyM | but if you have to scale at all, use the vector info |
| 17:22.57 | JefferyM | possibly |
| 17:23.17 | trepan | you don't need to render on the fly |
| 17:23.19 | JefferyM | but you can also prerender them to cached textures and get the same speed after you render them once |
| 17:23.23 | JefferyM | yes I know |
| 17:23.32 | JefferyM | I just mean using saved images |
| 17:23.50 | JefferyM | blasting out cached textures is fastest for sure |
| 17:23.57 | trepan | ya, saved atlases are not terribly important |
| 17:24.07 | JefferyM | but with the font libs, no need to ship pre-rendered fonts |
| 17:24.09 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:24.11 | JefferyM | that's all I mean |
| 17:24.13 | trepan | but they can make the app a little simple by avoiding freetype entirely |
| 17:24.19 | trepan | *simpler |
| 17:24.22 | JefferyM | cache them at the size you want, then blast em out |
| 17:24.25 | JefferyM | true |
| 17:24.35 | JefferyM | freetype isn't that hard to use or ship |
| 17:25.31 | trepan | more interesting would GPU rastered vector fonts (via shaders) |
| 17:26.52 | trepan | haven't played with it myself, but it might be something like: http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch25.html |
| 17:31.21 | trepan | and: http://alice.loria.fr/publications/papers/2005/VTM/vtm.pdf |
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| 18:06.56 | ab0oo | delusional: just got done doing a walkthough of quad-color with TPP. He approved and asked me to send it to him to host. |
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| 18:14.34 | JefferyM | anyone want to apply for a job in sothern california? |
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| 18:35.27 | temporalD | JefferyM, ask L4m3r about that job |
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| 19:47.10 | JefferyM | temporalD, I plan to, and it may be jobs |
| 19:47.37 | temporalD | I think he'd love to get out of food service... |
| 19:47.56 | JefferyM | I know |
| 19:48.05 | JefferyM | I've talked to him about it before |
| 19:48.24 | JefferyM | we have some people leaving and may be hiring up to 3 more people to replace them |
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