| 00:09.40 | *** join/#bzflag Allejo (n=Allejo@adsl-69-234-141-228.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:31.19 | JeffM | Will07c5: teleporters would be the one you'll have to reasearch |
| 00:31.39 | JeffM | meshes are prety straight forward |
| 00:33.05 | *** part/#bzflag Allejo (n=Allejo@adsl-69-234-141-228.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:33.10 | *** join/#bzflag Allejo (n=Allejo@adsl-69-234-141-228.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:36.10 | trepan | Teleporter::makeMesh() might help |
| 00:36.38 | Will07c5 | thanks I'll look at that |
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| 00:37.12 | Allejo | talking about teleporters. :D is it possible to change the material on the border other than making a mesh that seems like a border? |
| 00:38.02 | JeffM | Will07c5: what otehr objects does workbench read right now? |
| 00:38.11 | trepan | Allejo: it will be with bz3 |
| 00:38.19 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg_ (n=Default@97.81.198.119) |
| 00:38.33 | Allejo | oh goodie. thx trep. i cant wait :P |
| 00:41.00 | Will07c5 | JeffM: it seems like it at least attempts to read them all, but I think only box, pyramid and teleporter were working properly |
| 00:41.09 | JeffM | ok |
| 00:41.20 | JeffM | wonders where his teleporter doc is |
| 00:41.34 | JeffM | meh, mesh function is better |
| 00:41.34 | Will07c5 | define is broken which is why it wasn't reading the bzw I tried to open |
| 00:42.05 | Allejo | look in the last place you would look jeff |
| 00:42.23 | JeffM | in my pants? |
| 00:42.47 | Allejo | you could have printed in and folded it and put it in your pants :) |
| 00:42.56 | Allejo | print it* |
| 00:43.03 | Allejo | printed it* |
| 00:43.06 | JeffM | highly doubtfull, I don't know about you but I change my clothes every day |
| 00:43.35 | Will07c5 | looks like a spoke too soon, seems it still doesn't load properly even without the define |
| 00:43.38 | JeffM | ahh I put it in the wiki, good for me |
| 00:43.42 | Will07c5 | I* |
| 00:43.46 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Image:AnatomyOfATeleporter.png |
| 00:44.18 | Will07c5 | ah thanks that looks very helpful |
| 00:45.14 | JeffM | the function trepan pointed out should be taken as canon |
| 00:48.22 | trepan | note that it is a little different than the bz2 teleporters |
| 00:48.26 | Constitution | interesting that the screenshot of bzeditwin32 (which runs only on windows) on the wiki features a mac os x-style window border |
| 00:48.43 | trepan | specifically, the x scale is handled different when it is larger than the border |
| 00:48.49 | trepan | *differently |
| 00:55.43 | JeffM | Constitution: that was to piss people off |
| 00:55.44 | JeffM | ;) |
| 00:56.23 | JeffM | and it runs fine under wine |
| 00:56.24 | Constitution | heh |
| 00:56.27 | JeffM | feeds |
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| 01:45.21 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03will07c5 * r19802 10/trunk/bzworkbench/src/ (model/Primitives.cpp objects/pyramid.cpp): |
| 01:45.21 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: * Fixed minor problem with pyramid UVs |
| 01:45.21 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: * Fixed bug preventing bzw files with pyramids to load |
| 02:00.29 | blast007 | Will07c5: it was reading BZW files for me the other day |
| 02:00.37 | blast007 | is there a specific one you're trying? |
| 02:00.54 | Will07c5 | I broke it with the procedural generation :P |
| 02:01.00 | Will07c5 | that was just fixing it |
| 02:01.19 | blast007 | ah |
| 02:01.50 | blast007 | I think reading certain stuff like a waterLevel object makes it crash |
| 02:02.00 | blast007 | or maybe it was just throwing an assert |
| 02:02.07 | Will07c5 | define doesn't seem to work either |
| 02:02.16 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:04.18 | blast007 | good one to work with at the beginning might be the HiX map: |
| 02:04.19 | blast007 | http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/misc/hix.bzw?revision=19236&view=markup |
| 02:04.49 | blast007 | fairly simple map |
| 02:04.58 | CBG | Hah! |
| 02:05.00 | Will07c5 | I'll try that |
| 02:05.18 | blast007 | CBG: ? |
| 02:05.20 | CBG | Only a brainless munchkin would call some a intricate map "simple"! |
| 02:05.21 | Will07c5 | although it has teleporters so it will explode until I get those implemented |
| 02:05.23 | CBG | :P |
| 02:05.30 | blast007 | Will07c5: heh |
| 02:06.15 | blast007 | CBG: I'm not referring in any way to the gameplay. :P |
| 02:06.43 | CBG | blast007: I know. I even agree with you anyway. :) |
| 02:07.13 | CBG | Though, I don't agree with the suggestion that there are no TF2 servers in the entire world at all. Stupid Valve. |
| 02:08.58 | TD-Linux | that reminds me |
| 02:08.58 | TD-Linux | I should get TF on my DS |
| 02:09.31 | CBG | got an EZ Flash Vi + 8GB MicroSDHC... Fun :D |
| 02:11.02 | Will07c5 | I made a workaround so it doesn't crash on teleporters and hix does load |
| 02:32.11 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=fatass@bzflag/player/ThinkDifferent) |
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| 02:34.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 03:01.48 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5832 10/w/LogDetail: New page: logDetail is a plugin that allows the server owner to record everything that happens on a server. For example the plugin will record when Allejo joins the server with IP 12.345.67.89 and w... |
| 03:05.40 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable (i=Abominab@user-0ce2hpi.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 03:10.04 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5833 10/w/LogDetail: |
| 03:10.51 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5834 10/w/LogDetail: |
| 03:11.32 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5835 10/w/LogDetail: |
| 03:11.49 | eTangenT | For example the plugin will record when Allejo joins the server with IP 12.345.67.89 <-- I hope I never see someone join a server with that IP. |
| 03:17.40 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5836 10/w/FlagStay: |
| 03:22.23 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Ha You Got Shot By Me 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5837 10/w/Recordmatch: |
| 03:23.59 | JeffM | man, now I have to fix all those |
| 03:27.46 | eTangenT | What needs to be fixed with them? |
| 03:27.50 | JeffM | lots |
| 03:27.51 | JeffM | format |
| 03:27.53 | JeffM | wrong info |
| 03:27.54 | eTangenT | Other than the fact that he clearly doesn't use a terminal much. |
| 03:28.02 | JeffM | and the fact that he can't write ;) |
| 03:30.08 | eTangenT | Which one are you hitting first? |
| 03:30.12 | JeffM | log detail |
| 03:30.15 | JeffM | I'm almost done |
| 03:30.29 | eTangenT | I'll check out Recordmatch then |
| 03:30.53 | JeffM | make it match the formating on the otehr plugin docs |
| 03:32.13 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5838 10/w/LogDetail: update w3th proper info and match formating to other plugin docs |
| 03:32.54 | eTangenT | When did recordmatch start getting included? |
| 03:33.23 | JeffM | check the SVN history |
| 03:34.40 | JeffM | bzfs | somefile.whatever works on nix right? |
| 03:34.46 | JeffM | you dont' have to go thru cat or anything funky |
| 03:36.28 | eTangenT | if you want to output to a file, you do: |
| 03:36.32 | eTangenT | bzfs > file |
| 03:36.43 | eTangenT | or to append, use >> |
| 03:36.50 | JeffM | k |
| 03:36.52 | eTangenT | | is to send output to another program |
| 03:41.20 | JeffM | IIRC windows only supports >> not > |
| 03:41.37 | JeffM | nope I'm wrong |
| 03:46.31 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5839 10/w/Redirect: notes on redirect and piping |
| 03:46.34 | eTangenT | heya Jeff, I forget what the precise mechanics of recordmatch are... looking at the code, it appears it just starts recording when the match starts. |
| 03:46.44 | eTangenT | and stops when the game ends. |
| 03:46.46 | eTangenT | is this correct? |
| 03:46.50 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:46.59 | eTangenT | cool. |
| 03:52.14 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03TangenT 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5840 10/w/Recordmatch: Cleaning up this mess... let's use correct information and formatting, shall we? |
| 03:52.30 | eTangenT | How's that? |
| 03:52.56 | eTangenT | A couple minor things I missed, lemme fix those also. |
| 03:53.45 | JeffM | you can say Unix based systems instead of *nix |
| 03:53.59 | JeffM | and you can just do the linux based load |
| 03:54.02 | JeffM | take off the .so |
| 03:54.11 | eTangenT | Oh my god, I totally left Airspawn info in there. |
| 03:54.12 | JeffM | since that'll work on windows too |
| 03:54.12 | eTangenT | WHoops. |
| 03:54.19 | JeffM | heh |
| 03:54.27 | JeffM | other then that, it's fine |
| 03:54.45 | JeffM | and you don't need an example unless it takes a paramater |
| 03:56.28 | eTangenT | Sorry, I think you probably see that I just yanked everything from Airspawn for this. |
| 03:56.31 | eTangenT | ;M |
| 03:56.32 | eTangenT | ;< |
| 03:56.34 | eTangenT | er |
| 03:56.36 | eTangenT | I even break smileys. |
| 03:56.38 | eTangenT | Look at that. |
| 03:57.27 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03TangenT 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5841 10/w/Recordmatch: Alright, for real, I'm fixing things. This should look pretty good now. |
| 03:57.55 | eTangenT | And I believe 2.0.6 is the correct version to use. SVN records from then showed the README and everything listing BZFlag 2.0.5, which was the devel version, of course. |
| 03:57.59 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (n=Paul@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 03:59.06 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5842 10/w/Recordmatch: no need for seperate windows and unix loads, the same load works on all OSs |
| 03:59.21 | eTangenT | Alright, cool. |
| 03:59.31 | JeffM | tho we should comonize all that, because we don't need to dupe it for each plugin |
| 03:59.38 | JeffM | they all load the SAME way |
| 04:02.09 | eTangenT | Aw, now we have to get FlagStay done, too. |
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| 14:19.37 | CBG | blast007: fyi, error at http://images.bzflag.org/dkévin/ |
| 14:19.53 | CBG | due to the funky 'e'. I guess |
| 14:20.53 | blast007 | heh |
| 14:21.36 | CBG | And also, just out of curiosity, what's the purpose of http://images.bzflag.org/images/ ? Can't those directories be moved up a level? |
| 14:22.13 | BulletCatcher | Those are images of images. :-) |
| 14:22.35 | CBG | apparently so :P |
| 14:22.38 | blast007 | they don't seem to have any license info |
| 14:23.59 | CBG | There are others in directories like http://images.bzflag.org/cbraddy/ that are the same (unknown) *3 |
| 14:24.28 | CBG | Not meaning to annoy, just wondering if perhaps they could be moved to make it look a bit tidier. :) |
| 14:24.52 | delusional | it's to preserve old links, i think, |
| 14:24.57 | delusional | so old maps dont break |
| 14:25.15 | CBG | Ahh, that makes sense! :) |
| 14:25.56 | delusional | at least that's my guess. |
| 14:26.20 | CBG | Yeah, I suspect that was the directory that images were uploaded to with a previous system... |
| 14:26.32 | BulletCatcher | The web logs ought to show whether they get any use. |
| 14:32.47 | Cygal | 22:09 Cygal$ concerning the ROBOT which is defined at compilation. is the plan to remove those and try to separate the robot code, or is it accepted to have #ifdef ROBOTS all around the code? |
| 14:32.51 | Cygal | 22:11 Cygal$ in some places, robots are forgotten, so fixes would involve adding more of those #ifdef I guess |
| 14:32.55 | Cygal | BulletCatcher: any insight concerning this? |
| 14:33.01 | Pimpi | ts: ping |
| 14:34.31 | Pimpi | brad: ping |
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| 14:37.23 | BulletCatcher | Cygal: I know there has been some previous discussion of that question. I am trying to find it. |
| 14:45.35 | BulletCatcher | I can't find the earlier discussion. |
| 14:45.37 | BulletCatcher | Bulldozer/KingRobot is probably the best person to ask, as robots are his GSoC project. |
| 14:45.42 | BulletCatcher | ~seen KingRobot |
| 14:45.45 | ibot | kingrobot <n=mathew@unaffiliated/kingrobot> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 4d 12h 17m 13s ago, saying: 'Sorry trepan: I had thought I'd fixed those as it built over here. I must've missed a project when I committed it.'. |
| 14:46.44 | BulletCatcher | Sorry about the higlight, t. |
| 14:48.59 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19803 10/trunk/bzflag/src/game/CollisionManager.cxx: Get the world size from the BZDB cache instead of doing a slower evaluation. |
| 14:52.43 | brlcad | Cygal: in general the #ifdefs are short-term hacks that just made compilation easy -- *as* the code is refactored (and NOT simply duplicated), the ifdef's could go away |
| 14:52.49 | brlcad | lesser of two mild evils |
| 14:53.13 | brlcad | otherwise we would have just copied the client dir over and started ripping out code |
| 14:53.44 | brlcad | don't want to maintain more copies of client code, want them refactored into a library so that only app-specific code lives in that app dir |
| 14:54.22 | tupone | hola sean :) |
| 14:57.15 | brlcad | ciao tupone :) |
| 15:01.52 | BulletCatcher | If there is an actual bug that can be fixed by adding #ifdef ROBOT, then my recommendation would be to do it and leave the refactoring for some other time. |
| 15:02.56 | brlcad | oh sure, the #ifdefs are just an alternative to forking the files |
| 15:03.02 | brlcad | still need the implementation |
| 15:03.28 | brlcad | saying to get *rid* of a #ifdef, shouldn't just copy the file |
| 15:05.31 | BulletCatcher | Finding new places where #ifdef ROBOT would be appropriate should not be within the scope of Cygal's project, however. |
| 15:10.37 | brlcad | also, ROBOT should predominantly just affect solo bots, not bzrobots |
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| 15:13.06 | Cygal | yes, the bugs I'm taking care of right now affect solo bots. |
| 15:13.37 | Cygal | I don't know how the #ifdef will get removed, but since it is not my job, I won't try to understand |
| 15:14.03 | brlcad | it's all good work, just try not to spend too much time on it ;) |
| 15:14.20 | BulletCatcher | These are not the 'bots you're looking for. </jedi mind trick> |
| 15:17.55 | Cygal | :p |
| 15:25.32 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19804 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerMenu.cxx: For clarity, increment the "for" loop index in the "for" statement itself rather than down inside the loop. |
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| 15:31.12 | brad | Pimpi: hi? |
| 15:37.20 | CBG | Pf... Where's your confidence, brad?! It should be: Yes, Pimpi? Speak to me! I'm waiting! |
| 15:39.19 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19805 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: The other type of free-for-all mode is OpenFFA, not ClassicCTF. |
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| 15:44.56 | brad | CBG: :p |
| 15:53.06 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19806 10/trunk/bzflag/src/clientbase/SyncClock.cxx: Whitespace: use our indenting standard. |
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| 16:22.52 | Pimpi | brad: applecake asked me how to become member of gu.league. he ight have asked somebody else by now, not sure |
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| 18:37.29 | __reh | Hi all. bzflag keeps dumping core on my system. Could someone have a look at the backtrace and give a hint how to solve this issue? |
| 18:37.52 | __reh | http://pastebin.com/m33e1dde6 |
| 18:38.51 | __reh | It's happening in the middle of the game... I don't know why it tries to set the default resolution at the first place. |
| 18:42.00 | BulletCatcher | Which BZFlag version? |
| 18:42.26 | __reh | 2.0.10 |
| 18:43.28 | BulletCatcher | It looks like you are on Linux. Is this the distributed version or did you compile it yourself? |
| 18:43.57 | JeffM | what video card and driver? |
| 18:44.03 | __reh | I am on FreeBSD. So this is self-compiled. |
| 18:44.31 | JeffM | ahh you have DRI? |
| 18:44.36 | JeffM | an old ATI card? |
| 18:44.45 | __reh | Yes DRI and ATI. |
| 18:45.17 | JeffM | what card? |
| 18:47.10 | __reh | stupid me... I'm still looking for the card info. |
| 18:47.20 | __reh | I know it uses R500 microcode... |
| 18:47.31 | JeffM | how old is it? |
| 18:48.33 | BulletCatcher | The card should be identified in the chat window when you start bzflag. |
| 18:49.41 | JeffM | well you should check to see if the card is supported by the radeonhd driver |
| 18:50.01 | JeffM | dri has been notoriously buggy on some of the ATI cards |
| 18:50.08 | __reh | whooo. sorry.... |
| 18:50.10 | JeffM | and it looks like it's dying in some of the GL context code |
| 18:50.19 | __reh | forget the coredump |
| 18:50.22 | JeffM | inside SDL and mesa |
| 18:50.42 | __reh | this the dump i get when I'm quitting bzflag... |
| 18:50.55 | JeffM | yeah it's trying to set the res back |
| 18:51.03 | __reh | the system freezes while playing without a dump |
| 18:51.12 | JeffM | that has to be the driver |
| 18:51.19 | __reh | but i guess this is the driver too |
| 18:51.27 | JeffM | a usermode app is not suposed to be able to kill the system ;) |
| 18:51.43 | __reh | it's not killing - just freezing ;) |
| 18:51.48 | JeffM | that's even worse |
| 18:52.02 | JeffM | kernel and X are suposed to be able to get in there |
| 18:52.12 | JeffM | but if the driver horks nothing else can happen |
| 18:52.24 | JeffM | I have seen MANY people have problems with DRI and bzflag |
| 18:52.37 | JeffM | it dosn't have the best support for some of the GL calls we make |
| 18:52.47 | JeffM | I highly recomend radeonhd if you can swing it |
| 18:53.06 | __reh | well the drm is in kernel space and support for my card has been recently added. maybe it's not too stable... |
| 18:53.25 | JeffM | not like your current driver is stable ;) |
| 18:53.36 | JeffM | your only other option is ati propritary |
| 18:53.47 | __reh | radeonhd was really slow for me. i'm running the stock ati xorg driver. |
| 18:53.57 | JeffM | yeah that's dri |
| 18:54.00 | JeffM | and it sucks |
| 18:54.46 | __reh | yeah i know. nexuiz freezes too... so i guess i will give radeonhd another try |
| 18:54.57 | JeffM | you can try runing in a window, that sometimes helps |
| 18:55.19 | __reh | really? |
| 18:55.24 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:55.29 | __reh | hmmm... |
| 18:55.32 | JeffM | dosn't have to chagne video modes |
| 18:55.43 | __reh | ah. i see. |
| 18:55.59 | __reh | could it help to set the video mode to the one xorg uses anyway? |
| 18:56.16 | JeffM | it'll still call the res change code |
| 18:56.21 | JeffM | it isn't that smart |
| 18:56.32 | __reh | ok. |
| 18:57.00 | JeffM | I'm not sure it'll do anything for you, since you die while runing |
| 18:57.34 | __reh | well i'm not eager to change the video driver to radeonhd so i'll give the windowed bzflag a try. if it's not working i'll try radeonhd or give up ;) |
| 18:58.03 | __reh | i have to admit freebsd is not the ideal gaming platform :) |
| 18:58.14 | JeffM | it was never meant to be |
| 18:59.25 | __reh | i know. it makes a great desktop though. it's just a pitty it's not supporting the ocassional distractions (especially in 3d). |
| 18:59.41 | JeffM | they can' |
| 18:59.59 | JeffM | they can't be called distractions anymore, even X is going the way of using 3d tech for display |
| 19:00.05 | JeffM | it's just the way it's all going :) |
| 19:00.52 | Will07c5 | I'm just going to continue adding procedurally generated objects to bzwb today, starting with the teleporter and bases |
| 19:01.02 | JeffM | Will07c5: cool |
| 19:01.16 | Cygal | received his Google card, stickers, and notepad |
| 19:01.20 | __reh | yeah and corg 7.4 was a real pain. the added dependency on hald is a bad thing for non-linux systems. |
| 19:01.21 | JeffM | how do you like working in the codebase so far? |
| 19:01.41 | __reh | s/corg/xorg/ |
| 19:02.07 | Will07c5 | it is going alright although some parts are pretty inconsistent |
| 19:03.29 | Cygal | I can answer too : concerning the things I have worked on, I quite liked it. classes is well organised, most of infos are easy to find out. I still spend quite some time to try to understand exactly what is going on |
| 19:03.44 | JeffM | Cygal: so do we all |
| 19:04.26 | Will07c5 | so far understanding the bzwb code hasn't been hard |
| 19:04.41 | JeffM | good |
| 19:05.37 | JeffM | would like to hear something from Wyk3d1 and kingrobot |
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| 20:10.13 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19807 10/trunk/bzflag/ (105 files in 17 dirs): Standardize the 7 comment lines at the end of each file, providing whitespace rules for the Emacs and vi editors. |
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| 20:57.16 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19808 10/trunk/bzflag/ (128 files in 12 dirs): The license terms are in the file named COPYING, not LICENSE. |
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| 21:09.07 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19809 10/trunk/bzflag/ (16 files in 4 dirs): Spell MERCHANTABILITY correctly in the warranty disclaimer. |
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| 21:09.52 | spldart | heh |
| 21:10.41 | BulletCatcher | Someone else caught most of those misspellings awhile ago. I am just being thorough. |
| 21:12.12 | possible248 | So, last time I was here, |
| 21:12.23 | possible248 | I discussed the possibility of creating a BZFlag client for Google Android phones. |
| 21:12.35 | possible248 | It seems technologically possible--but I want to know if I have the community's support. |
| 21:12.39 | blast007 | good luck :) |
| 21:12.42 | possible248 | Would such a nonstandard client be frowned upon? |
| 21:12.48 | blast007 | it wouldn't be bzflag anymore |
| 21:12.53 | blast007 | you'd fork and make it something else |
| 21:13.10 | possible248 | So, I would not be allowed to actually connect to BZFlag servers, then? |
| 21:13.28 | blast007 | not saying you couldn't |
| 21:14.19 | blast007 | just be easier |
| 21:15.02 | blast007 | the controls might not work out that well |
| 21:15.25 | possible248 | Yes, which is why there would be little possibility for my port to hold an advantage over the standard client. |
| 21:15.41 | blast007 | and if you're intending to allow it to run over the cell networks, that wouldn't work very well. Latency/jitter would be much too high. |
| 21:16.47 | BulletCatcher | In other words, Android players probably wouldn't *want* to play against traditional bzflag clients. |
| 21:17.01 | possible248 | Hm |
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| 21:17.22 | blast007 | how big is the typical android phone's screen? 4 inches? less? |
| 21:17.26 | possible248 | Well, I'm somewhat interested in the controls--touchscreen, accelerometers--it would be like playing on a mini-Wii. |
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| 21:17.52 | blast007 | I don't think it would be worth it to do a straight port |
| 21:19.32 | possible248 | I'm a bit more optimistic--there's talk of getting Android onto netbooks too. |
| 21:20.48 | blast007 | still |
| 21:20.56 | possible248 | I see your points |
| 21:21.27 | possible248 | I think I'll try programming an app with just the UI--no playing functionality, and then see how usable it is. |
| 21:21.55 | BulletCatcher | BZFlag on a netbook is more reasonable, but I would expect it to be a straight port of the existing code that uses keyboard or mouse-like inputs. |
| 21:21.57 | blast007 | play around with OpenGL ES as well |
| 21:22.48 | possible248 | My most serious concern is with the community--I don't want to see my work wasted as server admins ban users of my port. |
| 21:23.03 | possible248 | Sure, special servers for users of my port could be created, but then users wouldn't be able to play on their favorite servers. |
| 21:23.30 | blast007 | if they were using the cell network, I'd certainly ban them |
| 21:24.09 | BulletCatcher | No, you'd ban (or just kick) them for having lag/jitter that is too high. |
| 21:24.11 | blast007 | I've already banned people that use a cell network to get on with the official client. Lag of 700+ ms, high jitter and packet loss aren't very nice |
| 21:24.39 | blast007 | same issue with satalite internet |
| 21:24.45 | blast007 | though that's more lag then anything else |
| 21:25.35 | possible248 | So, assuming that my port only connects to servers when given a decent wifi connection, the port's users should be fine; correct? |
| 21:25.37 | blast007 | jitter might still be an issue with wifi on a mobile device |
| 21:25.45 | blast007 | (due to extreme power management) |
| 21:26.19 | blast007 | my N800 has such an issue (I was running a server on it though, not a client) |
| 21:26.47 | blast007 | didn't try tweaking the power management setting, but that would have heavily degraded the battery life |
| 21:27.27 | possible248 | I think the only way to find out if it is really practical is to write an alpha version of the port, and then test it out on a personal server. |
| 21:27.45 | blast007 | a netbook would be the best target for a port, as it would have the necessary speed (hopefully) to run the game, and the controls necessary to reproduce all functionality |
| 21:27.51 | blast007 | yeah |
| 21:28.02 | BulletCatcher | That kind of test should give you a definitive answer. |
| 21:28.08 | blast007 | does Android support C++? |
| 21:28.11 | possible248 | No, only Java |
| 21:28.32 | blast007 | well, seems like it doesn't *officially* support anything besides java |
| 21:28.49 | BulletCatcher | Step 1: write a c++ compiler in Java. |
| 21:28.55 | possible248 | Oh dear. |
| 21:29.00 | blast007 | "Applications written in C and other languages can be compiled to ARM native code and run, but this development path is not officially supported by Google." |
| 21:29.47 | blast007 | porting to java wouldn't be an easy task ;) |
| 21:29.56 | blast007 | you'd have to port or replace all our dependencies as well |
| 21:30.24 | blast007 | so, it wouldn't even really be a fork. It would be a rewrite. :) |
| 21:30.44 | possible248 | Hm |
| 21:31.00 | possible248 | It would be quite a challenge; but I would be known as the ultimate nerd king in the event that I reached some significant degree of success. |
| 21:31.40 | possible248 | and I could make my Windows Mobile friends quake in fear at the sight of my G1. |
| 21:32.07 | blast007 | maybe try just porting cURL first ;) (one of our deps) |
| 21:32.27 | possible248 | I think Android should come with a similar library. |
| 21:32.33 | blast007 | probably |
| 21:33.00 | blast007 | still think that's a lot of work for minimal gain |
| 21:33.13 | blast007 | start with a basic app |
| 21:33.35 | possible248 | Oh yeah, I neglected to mention, |
| 21:33.43 | possible248 | I think I'll start first by just replicating the radar. |
| 21:34.11 | blast007 | BZ2D |
| 21:34.17 | possible248 | I am thinking about creating two clients--one with just the radar, and one 3D client with all the whiz-bang features. |
| 21:34.34 | blast007 | have fun |
| 21:34.36 | possible248 | I may or may not choose to sell the 3D client. |
| 21:34.50 | possible248 | The 2D client would massively suck, given that ST would be nearly impossible to kill. |
| 21:35.02 | blast007 | are you going to implement chat? |
| 21:35.27 | blast007 | cuz that's kinda an important feature |
| 21:35.30 | possible248 | Yeah |
| 21:35.50 | possible248 | Server admins would be significantly annoyed if they could not communicate with certain players. |
| 21:35.56 | blast007 | :) |
| 21:36.05 | possible248 | Radar, chat; any other features that should be included in the minimal version? |
| 21:36.18 | BulletCatcher | Shooting. |
| 21:36.21 | blast007 | hehe |
| 21:36.43 | blast007 | I don't really see how a minimal version like that would work anyway |
| 21:36.48 | blast007 | it would be a different game |
| 21:37.05 | possible248 | I disagree; the objective, the server, etc. would be the same. |
| 21:37.08 | possible248 | Just a radically different UI. |
| 21:37.15 | possible248 | It's more of a personal test for me. |
| 21:37.26 | blast007 | s/different/restricted/ ;) |
| 21:37.42 | possible248 | Well, the 3D client shouldn't be as restricted. |
| 21:37.43 | blast007 | but sure, try it |
| 21:37.53 | BulletCatcher | I recommend playing in the GU league if you want to be tested. :-) |
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| 21:38.20 | possible248 | Somebody else can do that for me; I'm a terrible BZFlag player. |
| 21:38.25 | possible248 | I love the thrills; but not my score. |
| 21:39.09 | possible248 | The G1 has a full keyboard; that should make the UI a bit easier to navigate. |
| 21:39.39 | possible248 | Though that means that HTC Magic phones would suffer; all touchscreen, no keyboard. |
| 21:40.07 | blast007 | does it support bluetooth keyboards? |
| 21:41.00 | possible248 | It's got bluetooth capabilities, but I doubt that it has the ability to utilize a bluetooth keyboard. |
| 21:44.55 | possible248 | Well, unfortunately, the world calls. I must go. |
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| 22:18.03 | blast007 | hi JeffM |
| 22:18.09 | JeffM | hi |
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