| 00:00.11 | Thumper_ | 19566* |
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| 00:01.50 | trepan | Thumper_: willing to test a debugging commit? |
| 00:01.54 | Thumper_ | sure |
| 00:02.13 | trepan | coming right up |
| 00:02.26 | trepan | you'll need to enable debugging, -d or /debug 1 |
| 00:02.26 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19567 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (defaultBZDB.cxx playing.cxx): * added a parabolicSlope debug message |
| 00:04.05 | Thumper_ | um it works now? |
| 00:04.10 | trepan | if the code is active, you should be seeing, "parabolicSlope active: xxx" (xxx is a float value) |
| 00:04.25 | trepan | try: /localset parabolicSlope 0.1 |
| 00:04.42 | trepan | (making sure it doing something for ya ;-) |
| 00:05.07 | Thumper_ | parabolicSlope active: 0.100000 |
| 00:05.16 | Thumper_ | and mouse movement is normal |
| 00:05.17 | Thumper_ | :/ |
| 00:05.34 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19568 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: * removed the parabolicSlope debug message |
| 00:05.45 | trepan | easy come, easy go |
| 00:06.24 | trepan | Thumper_: do you see what it does? (and when it might be useful?) |
| 00:07.12 | Thumper_ | do I see what your debugging commit does? yes |
| 00:07.19 | trepan | na, the feature :) |
| 00:07.58 | Thumper_ | no I havne't looked at it in detail at all yet - just went hunting for commits that worked vs ones that didn't for mouse movement |
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| 00:10.13 | Thumper_ | is also helping my 7yr with his homework so digging through the code isn't happening ATM for me |
| 00:11.31 | trepan | looks like it's fixed, have fun with the (fractions?) |
| 00:15.49 | Thumper_ | crosswords, spelling, multiplication table... |
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| 01:23.00 | Yamar | hey! |
| 01:23.12 | PositiveG | hey Yamar |
| 01:23.28 | Yamar | made any new maps positive? |
| 01:23.30 | PositiveG | Nice, followed my advice, kinda :) |
| 01:23.36 | PositiveG | well, work in progress |
| 01:23.48 | PositiveG | should be release in a week |
| 01:23.57 | PositiveG | Need to finish the textures |
| 01:24.15 | Yamar | is it the one you were talking about when I started Bunker battles? |
| 01:24.19 | PositiveG | Yamar: ##bzw is the bzflag mapping IRC channel |
| 01:24.25 | PositiveG | no |
| 01:24.32 | PositiveG | totally different |
| 01:24.37 | Yamar | oh, huh? |
| 01:24.53 | PositiveG | Laser sniping and a cool geno ring |
| 01:24.58 | PositiveG | join ##bzw |
| 01:24.58 | Yamar | cool |
| 01:25.02 | Yamar | ok |
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| 03:57.55 | jcp | ah, so it was a netsplit |
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| 03:58.03 | jcp | There we go |
| 03:58.03 | blast007 | yup |
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| 03:58.29 | blast007 | if you used irssi, you'd actually see it say "netsplit" ;) |
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| 04:34.11 | KingofCamelot | Hey, any GSoC mentors around? |
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| 05:06.00 | Will07c5 | I updated my opengl proposal as well as my bzworkbench proposal |
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| 05:27.34 | santosh | any mentors available? |
| 05:30.51 | Santosh_IIIT | I would like to know if my proposal will be considered only if I submit the patch(modified) as required before the deadline(tomorrow night) |
| 05:31.21 | Santosh_IIIT | because I am quite busy with my exams that will be going on till sunday. |
| 05:31.42 | Santosh_IIIT | Can I submit the patch on mon or tuesday |
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| 05:38.45 | BulletCatcher | Santosh_IIIT: Yes, it will be okay if you submit your patch by Tuesday April 7. |
| 05:39.02 | BulletCatcher | But that's about as long as we can wait. |
| 05:39.05 | Santosh_IIIT | thanks.I'll try to do it asap |
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| 05:39.36 | Santosh_IIIT | and another doubt, how are we to upload our patches and can we attempt on more than one |
| 05:40.00 | JeffM | our SF tracker, and yes |
| 05:40.16 | DTRemenak | the sourceforge patch tracker is the appropriate place for patches. that's why we ask you to put your sourceforge username in the application |
| 05:40.45 | DTRemenak | and sure, as many as you want. heh, it's not like we're going to turn down patches :) |
| 05:43.34 | Santosh_IIIT | k |
| 05:43.46 | BulletCatcher | It would be nice to leave a few bugs for the students who propose to fix them. ;-) |
| 05:44.02 | DTRemenak | BulletCatcher: we have NO shortage of bugs :P |
| 05:44.20 | DTRemenak | and we're always making more ;) |
| 05:44.23 | JeffM | like I've said, they don't have to fix bugs for patches |
| 05:45.29 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03DTRemenak 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5662 10/w/Google_Summer_of_Code_Acceptance: /* Make a patch */ sure, we'll take more than one patch if you want, but quality > quantity |
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| 06:01.23 | BulletCatcher | Bulldozer, your SF patch 2721799 fixed the crash-on-exit problem for me. Well done! |
| 06:01.25 | BulletCatcher | While preparing to commit it I noticed that the copyright assigments in your two new FTCleanup files were obsolete. If you are willing, it would make more sense for you to use FTBuffer.cpp as a model for your files, with 2009 as the year. |
| 06:02.17 | Bulldozer | BulletCatcher: Thanks! |
| 06:02.18 | Bulldozer | BulletCatcher: Shall I resubmit the patch accordingly? |
| 06:02.23 | Bulldozer | (re copyrights) |
| 06:02.57 | BulletCatcher | Yes. That would give us a good audit trail of your intentions. |
| 06:03.28 | Bulldozer | BulletCatcher: Alright, will do. It's on my other machine, so can't get to it just right now, but soon. |
| 06:03.40 | BulletCatcher | No rush. |
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| 06:32.54 | Santosh_IIIT | can somebody tell me what exactly do you expect in the project on Modularization of OpenGL logic in the code of the gmae |
| 06:34.57 | Santosh_IIIT | As mentioned, on looking at the source code, I can find multiple instances of calls at various places |
| 06:36.37 | Santosh_IIIT | but to proceed in a particular direction, I would like to get to know what do they expect atleast in brief |
| 06:39.01 | Santosh_IIIT | any mentor available? |
| 06:45.45 | BulletCatcher | That question has been answered before, and better than I can do it. Give me a couple of minutes to find the link to the chat log. |
| 06:49.44 | BulletCatcher | Starting at 11:56 on this page: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20090329.html.gz, brlcad gives a good description of what he expects for the OpenGL work. |
| 06:49.51 | BulletCatcher | (sorry for the highlight) |
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| 09:13.54 | nightstrike_ | wishes he'd get more comments for his libgame proposal :| |
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| 12:57.04 | Thumper_ | trepan: yes I see what it does... makes the speed non-linear as you move the pointer away from the center of the mousebox. I was thinking it might be useful for the deadzone on a joystick/game controller? |
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| 13:35.26 | tapan_chugh | bzflag not starting |
| 13:35.29 | tapan_chugh | please help |
| 13:35.38 | tapan_chugh | X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) |
| 13:35.41 | tapan_chugh | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.41 | tapan_chugh | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.41 | tapan_chugh | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.41 | tapan_chugh | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:35.41 | tapan_chugh | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:39.09 | Thumper_ | sorry that window for helping is too small |
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| 13:50.13 | dexter- | Thumper_, ^^ |
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| 13:58.15 | the_alyx_vance | hi ! |
| 13:58.30 | delusional | yo! |
| 13:58.41 | the_alyx_vance | anyone submitted app for SOC ? |
| 13:58.49 | delusional | many have |
| 13:58.58 | the_alyx_vance | hehe |
| 13:59.13 | the_alyx_vance | how many will be finally selected ? |
| 13:59.50 | delusional | I'm not sure, less than five... deadline is tomorrow, if i'm not mistaken. |
| 14:00.00 | the_alyx_vance | yea |
| 14:00.02 | the_alyx_vance | tomorrow |
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| 14:23.59 | brlcad | everyone wants to know their "chances" |
| 14:24.05 | brlcad | chances are zero if you don't apply |
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| 16:38.36 | BulletCatcher | The mouse input bug is now fixed for me, both on Linux and MacOS. Thanks to those who worked on it. |
| 16:38.42 | BulletCatcher | ~Cygal++ |
| 16:38.46 | BulletCatcher | ~trepan++ |
| 16:38.52 | BulletCatcher | ~Thumper_++ |
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| 17:07.20 | trepan | i'd be interested in knowing what '/localset parabolicSlope' gave with r19563 (or less) when the problem occurred |
| 17:07.56 | trepan | if 'none' wasn't set, then i still don't know why the isnan() check wasn't working |
| 17:08.18 | trepan | could be that the BZDB_float update didn't work, and that's worth knowing |
| 17:08.32 | trepan | (p.s. i've never seen the problem...) |
| 17:08.54 | JefferyM | so who wants to work on the windows installer for 3.0? |
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| 17:11.26 | pacman87 | what about the installer for windows 3.1? |
| 17:11.39 | JefferyM | heh |
| 17:11.46 | JefferyM | notice my order of words ;) |
| 17:11.58 | JefferyM | it needs to be updated |
| 17:12.00 | pacman87 | and what channel i'm in |
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| 17:19.14 | BulletCatcher | trepan: with r19559 I get a "/localset parabolicSlope nan none" repsponse in the chat window on both MacOS and 64-bit Linux. |
| 17:20.00 | trepan | and the problem occurs for you with that rev? |
| 17:20.29 | BulletCatcher | Yes. |
| 17:22.13 | trepan | still makes no sense then ... but thanks for checking |
| 17:23.10 | BulletCatcher | No problem. I am happy that it is fixed. |
| 17:24.40 | Thumper_ | trepan: do you have a saved parabolicSlope setting in your local config? |
| 17:25.03 | Thumper_ | the saved setting for me (of 1.0) was hiding the problem |
| 17:33.12 | trepan | does your saved setting have a '#' in front of it? |
| 17:33.40 | trepan | either way, BulletCatcher's "/localset parabolicSlope nan none" for r19559 should have blocked the code |
| 17:34.26 | trepan | a printf("%f\n", s1) at the top of that block of code might help figure out what's happening |
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| 17:34.52 | trepan | (before the +/-1.0e6 clamps) |
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| 18:27.42 | blast007 | JefferyM: what needs to be updated besides the VC runtime? |
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| 18:31.05 | JefferyM | umm, 1) to see if it's hard to do that vista game thing |
| 18:31.20 | blast007 | ah |
| 18:31.26 | JefferyM | 2) to add the server launcher insted of the crap shortcuts |
| 18:31.50 | JefferyM | and just a general cleanup pass to make sure that we are not doing anything stupid |
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| 18:32.43 | blast007 | the server launcher needs to be fixed before that can be included |
| 18:33.05 | blast007 | the threaded output stuff doesn't work |
| 18:33.17 | blast007 | and I haven't been able to find out why exactly |
| 18:33.43 | JefferyM | ok |
| 18:33.49 | JefferyM | then we need to do that :) |
| 18:33.54 | Cygal | « someone broke the key-driving rotational acceleration dampening », what is this? I don't see the difference between trunk and 2.0 |
| 18:34.01 | JefferyM | cus the start server menu is like GONE :) |
| 18:34.17 | blast007 | heh, that's right... forgot it was gone ;) |
| 18:34.32 | JefferyM | Cygal, I beliv that is a diffrerence betwen 1.10 and 2.0 |
| 18:34.47 | JefferyM | personaly I don't think it's an issue |
| 18:34.57 | JefferyM | we just have different acceleration behavors now |
| 18:34.59 | blast007 | do we want the launcher to be more generic as well? currently it's still set up just for hosting LAN games, and anyone that joins is an admin.. |
| 18:35.13 | JefferyM | but you probalby want to ask DTRemenak /erronious when he gets back from westech |
| 18:35.22 | JefferyM | blast007, that would be nice |
| 18:35.25 | blast007 | ok |
| 18:35.25 | Cygal | ok, I'll do that, thanks |
| 18:38.52 | Thumper_ | trepan: heh your printf prints 'nan' in R19563 when built without debug |
| 18:38.59 | Thumper_ | I can't break it with ./configure --enable-debug |
| 18:39.52 | trepan | Thumper_: that is odd :) |
| 18:42.05 | JefferyM | blast007, what does it use a thread for? |
| 18:43.14 | blast007 | two threads |
| 18:43.20 | blast007 | one for stdout, one for stderr |
| 18:43.32 | JefferyM | oh to grab the output? |
| 18:43.35 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:43.36 | JefferyM | interesting |
| 18:43.54 | blast007 | but when I have both threads working, it doesn't seem to output anything |
| 18:43.56 | JefferyM | we could cheeze that out you know |
| 18:44.12 | JefferyM | have it redirect the command line output to a file, and set a filewatcher :) |
| 18:44.18 | blast007 | heh |
| 18:44.21 | JefferyM | basicly just keep a temp log |
| 18:44.29 | blast007 | yeah, never even thought about that |
| 18:44.30 | JefferyM | that may not be a bad thing, cus then you'll have a log file |
| 18:44.37 | blast007 | I already store a temp file for the groupdb |
| 18:44.43 | JefferyM | cool |
| 18:44.52 | JefferyM | log file would be handy on crash, etc.. |
| 18:44.59 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:45.11 | JefferyM | and it could keep that app single threaded :) |
| 18:45.11 | *** join/#bzflag heineckm (n=heineckm@139.147.20.89) |
| 18:45.41 | trepan | Thumper_: so !isnan((float)parabolicSlope) doesn't work, wonder if it's the isnan(), or the conversion |
| 18:46.20 | trepan | Thumper_: grep -i isnan include/config.h ? |
| 18:47.07 | Thumper_ | #define HAVE_STD__ISNAN 1 |
| 18:47.19 | JefferyM | blast007, if you want to work on the installer, I can work on the launcher |
| 18:47.23 | trepan | same here ... |
| 18:47.27 | blast007 | JefferyM: okay |
| 18:47.36 | blast007 | I'm looking into the vista game explorer thing |
| 18:47.46 | JefferyM | you spell better then I do, and the installer has more words :) |
| 18:47.50 | blast007 | hehe |
| 18:48.16 | JefferyM | I wonder how hard it would be to make a php page, ping a server on a port, and return a page if it went through |
| 18:48.17 | blast007 | wish I had an actual vista DVD so I could dual boot a non-development copy of Vista |
| 18:48.24 | JefferyM | so the launcher coudl have a "Test port" button |
| 18:48.27 | trepan | Thumper_: taking it offline |
| 18:48.33 | Thumper_ | trepan: ok |
| 18:48.38 | blast007 | that would be dirt easy |
| 18:48.47 | JefferyM | have to have the launcher listen on a port tho |
| 18:48.55 | JefferyM | not that it's that hard |
| 18:49.01 | JefferyM | I think that would be usefull tho |
| 18:49.04 | blast007 | or just run a server on that port quick and then test |
| 18:49.05 | JefferyM | for router people |
| 18:49.13 | JefferyM | maybe |
| 18:49.24 | JefferyM | I will ponder |
| 18:49.30 | blast007 | k |
| 18:49.32 | JefferyM | sockets in C# is friggin cake |
| 18:49.37 | blast007 | :) |
| 18:53.12 | JefferyM | most things in C# are friggin cake |
| 18:53.15 | trepan | thinks that -ffast-math might be breaking isnan() |
| 18:55.09 | trepan | http://www.mail-archive.com/help-gplusplus@gnu.org/msg02896.html |
| 18:55.33 | trepan | so, do we keep -ffast-math when not using --enable-debug ? |
| 18:56.59 | JefferyM | blast007, the client laucher was just cus people have problems doing -bots right? |
| 18:59.02 | blast007 | it was more because the in-game launcher sucked ;) |
| 18:59.09 | blast007 | it was designed for testing maps |
| 18:59.32 | blast007 | which is why it automatically gives any user that joins specific rights that help for testing (like /set) |
| 19:04.23 | trepan | any objections to removing -ffast-math ? |
| 19:05.38 | Cygal | what is the performance hit? |
| 19:06.03 | trepan | system dependent, not likely to be that significant |
| 19:06.48 | trepan | you could also ask how likely it is to cause more bugs ;-) |
| 19:07.05 | Cygal | or less bugs :) |
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| 19:08.21 | Thumper_ | trepan: not from me (but you knew that) |
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| 19:08.52 | blast007 | trepan: I was thinking that having it turned on caused more problems than it fixed (it tended to fix getting stuck in teleporters, but then caused you to get kicked for moving too fast, among other things) |
| 19:09.10 | trepan | blast007: so you're for removing it? |
| 19:09.15 | blast007 | yes |
| 19:09.17 | Thumper_ | ditto |
| 19:09.35 | trepan | done |
| 19:09.47 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19569 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: * removed -ffast-math |
| 19:10.12 | Thumper_ | wonders how many other current bugs that fixes |
| 19:11.58 | blast007 | JefferyM: I'm probably going to wipe my Vista machine out to a clean system and see if I get the sound "Volume: Unavailable" issue |
| 19:12.20 | blast007 | currently it's working, but I also installed a development environment on there, including the DirectX SDK |
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| 19:40.43 | delusional | i started with a fresh copy of source, it seemed to build pretty fast... the first thing i notice is that there is no sctratchy sound when a shot ends |
| 19:44.33 | JefferyM | blast007, ok, I think I'll remove the client launcher and just make a simple app just for that |
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| 19:51.54 | heineckm | Hi all... is there anyone around who I can discuss my GSoC idea with? It's regarding AI |
| 19:56.12 | JefferyM | sure |
| 19:56.14 | JefferyM | go for it |
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| 19:59.09 | JefferyM | blast007, I thought about it at lunch. I think I want to make some small mods to bzflag and bzfs and have them write out the paths for where they were when they last ran. |
| 19:59.16 | JefferyM | then we can try to guess the exe locations |
| 19:59.28 | heineckm | yeah, I was hoping to be able to implement an AI based on an evolutionary algorithm |
| 19:59.38 | JefferyM | ok |
| 20:00.00 | JefferyM | usng the bzrobots framework? |
| 20:00.37 | heineckm | yeah, i looked it up, but haven't much of a chance for to thoroughly examine it |
| 20:00.42 | JefferyM | k |
| 20:01.06 | heineckm | do you know how far that project got? about where it stands currently? |
| 20:01.26 | JefferyM | it needs a little work to bring it up to date, but on linux it should be usable |
| 20:01.33 | JefferyM | and in 2.0.x it should be useable |
| 20:01.47 | JefferyM | it has a little bit of shared code that needs to be updated for our dev version |
| 20:02.08 | JefferyM | we've had applications to work on it for this SOC, mostly just cleaning it up to make it more maintainable |
| 20:04.02 | heineckm | do you happen to know if/where i could find a repository for it so i could take a look at it? |
| 20:04.48 | Will07c5 | I updated my opengl modularization application to address the comments. I just wanted to know if it is ok now or if I should add more detail? |
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| 20:06.04 | JefferyM | heineckm, have you read our wiki page on getting started for students? and the checklist? |
| 20:06.30 | JefferyM | heineckm, info on our SVN system can be found at http://my.bzflag.org/w/SVN |
| 20:06.49 | JefferyM | Will07c5, has anyone commented on it? |
| 20:07.11 | Will07c5 | not since I updated it |
| 20:07.31 | JefferyM | did you add a comment that you updated it? |
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| 20:08.03 | Will07c5 | oh I didn't know we were supposed to add a comment that we updated |
| 20:08.18 | JefferyM | it helps |
| 20:08.22 | JefferyM | then all mentors see it |
| 20:08.36 | Will07c5 | I'll do that now |
| 20:08.53 | blast007 | JefferyM: where would bzflag and bzfs write the path out to? |
| 20:08.57 | blast007 | registry? |
| 20:09.03 | JefferyM | no, config dir |
| 20:09.08 | blast007 | k |
| 20:09.19 | JefferyM | make sense, since we wirte stuff there for all OSs |
| 20:09.26 | JefferyM | dirs.txt or something |
| 20:09.35 | blast007 | can mono detect which OS is in use to properly handle where to look? |
| 20:09.43 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 20:09.48 | blast007 | cool |
| 20:13.18 | JefferyM | well it's suposed to, I just have to figure out how :) |
| 20:13.22 | JefferyM | can't be that hard |
| 20:14.08 | Will07c5 | JeffreyM: I've added the comments, thanks yet again for the helpful advice. :) |
| 20:14.15 | JefferyM | sure thing |
| 20:15.32 | Wyk3d | blast007: i found that mediawiki's plugin system is FAR better than phpbb's, you make make hooks on registration to add the users and it is possible write a special page in the user preferences where he can change the user name .. so the idea would be to disallow registering and changing information from phpbb and do it via mediawiki only .. would that be acceptable ? |
| 20:15.52 | Wyk3d | s/you make make/can make |
| 20:15.56 | JefferyM | I'd not like that |
| 20:16.04 | JefferyM | Id rather have our own custom page for user management |
| 20:16.04 | blast007 | I think the idea that brlcad had was do to registration through Drupal |
| 20:16.08 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 20:16.17 | blast007 | (which would serve as our main site) |
| 20:16.18 | JefferyM | media wiki is not a great user manager ;) |
| 20:16.30 | blast007 | we could write a plugin for drupal if we had to |
| 20:16.38 | JefferyM | "go to wiki to change your password" is not intutive |
| 20:16.45 | JefferyM | but go to the main page is |
| 20:16.52 | ruskie | not to mention wikis aren't desigen to restrict |
| 20:16.57 | JefferyM | specialy if it has a nice "account" button |
| 20:16.58 | ruskie | so there's a whole can of worms there |
| 20:17.06 | blast007 | I'm still not terribly fond of drupal, but meh ;) |
| 20:17.23 | blast007 | probably not gonna write the whole thing from scratch |
| 20:17.31 | blast007 | so it's an option for now at least |
| 20:17.36 | brlcad | hey if mediawiki will do the ldap chatter, that'd work just fine too |
| 20:17.38 | blast007 | and gives us a lot of flexibility |
| 20:17.39 | ruskie | custom page++ but that's jsut my opinion |
| 20:17.46 | JefferyM | dude, I wrote my own crapy CMS in a day, you can do it blast007 ;) |
| 20:17.51 | brlcad | but last we checked, it's ldap support sucked and drupals was actually pretty decent |
| 20:17.53 | blast007 | JefferyM: heh |
| 20:18.02 | brlcad | and getting mediawiki talking through drupal is pretty trivial |
| 20:18.14 | Wyk3d | brlcad: what problems did it have ? |
| 20:18.19 | brlcad | but I agree.. mediawiki plugins are nice :) |
| 20:18.31 | brlcad | Wyk3d: eh, basically it was non-existent |
| 20:18.41 | brlcad | it would read from ldap, but not manage accounts, no writing |
| 20:18.52 | *** part/#bzflag KingRobot (n=mathew@unaffiliated/kingrobot) |
| 20:18.53 | brlcad | drupal actually would let you manage accounts |
| 20:19.04 | Wyk3d | http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LDAP_Authentication |
| 20:19.14 | Wyk3d | i've downloaded that and looked at the source, it's well done i think |
| 20:19.22 | brlcad | auth is not necessarily read/write |
| 20:20.01 | brlcad | it had an ldap module the last time we looked too, just couldn't update your data or manage custom fields |
| 20:20.09 | blast007 | "If you would like to use LDAP as a backend for MediaWiki (creating users, changing passwords, etc), you must provide a user who has write permissions to specific user attributes (please only give this user the minimum amount of access that is required)" |
| 20:20.09 | brlcad | maybe has since improved |
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| 20:20.25 | blast007 | seems to imply that there, but I'd have to look at the ode |
| 20:20.27 | blast007 | code* |
| 20:20.52 | brlcad | if it'd do it, it'd actually be an argument to make mw be the main CMS for the site |
| 20:21.05 | blast007 | I guess we'll have to experiment with a few different options ;) |
| 20:21.22 | blast007 | phpBB3 is going to be the most fun to get working "right" |
| 20:21.44 | brlcad | drupal can do it now for certain, but the fewer pieces/complexity to the site, the better |
| 20:22.09 | brlcad | there is/was pretty simple drupal phpbb integration, maybe something similar for mv |
| 20:22.12 | brlcad | er, mw |
| 20:22.25 | brlcad | yeah, http://drupal.org/project/phpbb |
| 20:22.45 | brlcad | looks like phpbb at least integrates users |
| 20:22.51 | brlcad | (with mw) |
| 20:23.23 | brlcad | which is pretty much all we'd need -- so it really amounts to how good is the mw ldap support vs the drupal support |
| 20:25.03 | blast007 | depends how they handle names changes too |
| 20:25.19 | blast007 | with phpBB3, if you change the name in LDAP, it creates a new user when they log in |
| 20:25.30 | blast007 | might be the same for the drupal plugin |
| 20:26.11 | Wyk3d | blast007: how could it possibly do that ? it can't know what the previous username was |
| 20:26.29 | Wyk3d | ah .. yes it creates a new user |
| 20:26.31 | Wyk3d | misread |
| 20:26.39 | blast007 | right |
| 20:26.46 | Wyk3d | so .. i found a way to do this better in mediawiki |
| 20:27.03 | Wyk3d | there is a RenameUser extension |
| 20:27.13 | Wyk3d | which is not exactly what we want, but could be modified to be |
| 20:27.35 | blast007 | k |
| 20:27.59 | Wyk3d | it creates a page for privileged users to change any username to another one, just add that to all users and allow changing only the current user and it should work |
| 20:27.59 | blast007 | not sure if we want to assume that the forum and the wiki/main site will always be on the same machine |
| 20:28.29 | brlcad | ldap has replication options, not too worried about that |
| 20:28.54 | blast007 | brlcad: which wouldn't help in this case ;) |
| 20:29.05 | blast007 | since the issue isn't just changing the name in LDAP |
| 20:29.19 | blast007 | it's making the web app handle the name change without creating a new user account |
| 20:29.33 | blast007 | phpBB3 does not handle that properly |
| 20:29.49 | Wyk3d | and you cannot write a plugin to do it properly either |
| 20:30.02 | brlcad | right but i mean it that problem is fixed for same machine purposes, then it should just as well work for remote/distributed too |
| 20:30.09 | brlcad | because we can replicate ldap and mysql |
| 20:30.29 | blast007 | ok, replicating MySQL would work |
| 20:30.40 | blast007 | I still think there should be a better way :) |
| 20:31.31 | blast007 | and there's still the problem of BZID's. |
| 20:31.41 | brlcad | that's where using the extension where phpbb talked through drupal was useful because it used drupal account info -- and I don't think drupal behaved the same wrt creating a drupal user |
| 20:31.45 | brlcad | it used ldap directly iirc |
| 20:32.50 | brlcad | yeah, the idea would be to add a field to the directory, then make a custom bz account management dialog that lets profiles be managed -- ideally per user allowing multiple username roles similar to nickserv aliasing |
| 20:33.36 | brlcad | so even if they 'change' their name, they retain the old one unless we go into the directory and manually fix/override/delete things |
| 20:35.39 | Wyk3d | in the mediawiki way, the username change extension actually calls existing functions in the ldap extension to make the change |
| 20:36.21 | Wyk3d | you get this right out of the box |
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| 20:41.03 | JefferyM | is there a way on linux and OSX to get the path for the exe that is running? |
| 20:43.25 | delusional | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:43.25 | delusional | osx |
| 20:43.38 | Cygal | argv[0]? |
| 20:44.02 | blast007 | delusional: heh, he means from the application itself ;) |
| 20:46.13 | brlcad | JefferyM: no, but I've implemented said routine |
| 20:46.23 | JefferyM | brlcad, in bzflag? |
| 20:46.33 | brlcad | in brl-cad, I could port it over |
| 20:46.48 | brlcad | pretty simple, one file |
| 20:46.57 | brlcad | just have to decouple some brl-cad data types |
| 20:47.34 | brlcad | Cygal: argv[0] doesn't contain the location unless it was invoked with a full-path (i.e. rarely ever) |
| 20:47.47 | brlcad | just the name, so you have to mimic what the shell does to find the binary |
| 20:48.03 | brlcad | and walk PATH, among a few other things |
| 20:48.34 | JefferyM | brlcad, can you add it to directoryNames in libGame for me? |
| 20:48.38 | JefferyM | I have need of it |
| 20:48.39 | JefferyM | ;) |
| 20:48.45 | brlcad | okay |
| 20:48.47 | Wyk3d | brlcad: so you would prefer a permanent username with aliases over a permanent id with changeable username ? |
| 20:49.04 | Winny | I would prefer pie |
| 20:49.48 | brlcad | Wyk3d: either of those would work for me |
| 20:49.55 | brlcad | the latter is more flexible of course |
| 20:50.01 | brlcad | but I wouldn't want the user to know that id |
| 20:50.16 | Wyk3d | why not ? |
| 20:50.17 | brlcad | letting them log in with any of their N callsigns would be cool |
| 20:50.32 | JefferyM | brlcad, thanks, I want bzfs and bzflag to write out where they are on each run so we can have some tools default to what should be valid paths :) |
| 20:51.09 | brlcad | JefferyM: sure sounds reasonable -- I've thought about adding it before as a means to find data resources relative to the binary (that's sort of how it's used in brl-cad) |
| 20:51.23 | Wyk3d | oh you mean that they shouldn't need to remember it ? i don't see any security issues or anything if they happen to find the id |
| 20:51.25 | JefferyM | yeah there are lots of good things we can do with it |
| 20:51.37 | brlcad | like finding the bzfs that corresponds with the running bzflag binary, instead of whatever is on the path |
| 20:51.43 | brlcad | so they match behavior/version-wise |
| 20:52.19 | brlcad | Wyk3d: yeah, not security .. just the matter of them needing to know that the system is tracking them with UUID 9289292h2th2887289293482234 is kinda pointless |
| 20:52.48 | Wyk3d | ofcouse |
| 20:54.18 | Wyk3d | brlcad: multiple callsigns seems like something you can easily add later on if you have access to the plugins that handle ldap auth and the daemon |
| 20:54.53 | blast007 | we'll want to make some announcement (and maybe do some checking as for who uses the weblogin.php file) before we switch from an integer to a UUID for the bzid ;) |
| 20:55.22 | blast007 | technically that would also break 2.0.x |
| 20:55.44 | Wyk3d | you don't need to switch to UUID btw .. if you change the registrations to do the atomic increment method |
| 20:56.43 | res|laptop | JefferyM: hey. can I bug you wrt SoC again? |
| 20:56.54 | blast007 | hmm, though maybe 2.0.x does tread it as a string, so that might not be an issue |
| 20:57.03 | JefferyM | res|laptop, sure, tho I may take a bit to respond |
| 20:57.06 | JefferyM | has to fix a VMM |
| 20:57.06 | blast007 | res|laptop: just ask the question and any of us can help |
| 20:57.34 | blast007 | and then any of us might be able to help, I should say ;) |
| 20:57.45 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 20:58.07 | res|laptop | well, JefferyM was so nice to tell me that BZF actually already separates game logic and rendering, to some extent (the SceneRenderer stuff afaics) |
| 20:58.19 | JefferyM | ish |
| 20:58.41 | res|laptop | but it would not be quite complete (no HUD, weather, BG, certain effects ...) |
| 20:59.22 | res|laptop | right now my proposal kind of consists of "integrate that stuff into scene system that's missing" |
| 20:59.36 | res|laptop | but it kind of seems ... thin to me |
| 20:59.37 | brlcad | doesn't need to be a uuid, even if it's an integer, it's not productive to expose that number |
| 20:59.47 | brlcad | and then there are issues of number envy :) |
| 21:01.05 | blast007 | brlcad: well, it's not like it *won't* be exposed |
| 21:01.07 | res|laptop | or maybe a clean scene rendering system *is* a big enough task but I'm underjudging right now? |
| 21:01.33 | blast007 | the BZID is exposed right now |
| 21:02.03 | brlcad | exposed in such a way that the user needs to care |
| 21:02.05 | blast007 | (more so because it's the phpBB user table primary key) |
| 21:02.07 | blast007 | k |
| 21:02.10 | brlcad | showing it on a url isn't a problem |
| 21:02.31 | blast007 | there is instances when it does need to be known though |
| 21:02.36 | brlcad | it's them needing to type it into a url to get their info, or need to know it for any purpose really that defeats the purpose of the indirection |
| 21:02.38 | blast007 | but mainly for BZID bans |
| 21:03.01 | brlcad | if they need to know what it is, then it should be some 'primary' callsign that is locked forevermore |
| 21:03.39 | brlcad | bzid bans are a hack based on how the system is presently designed, not a constraint on how to design the system |
| 21:05.09 | blast007 | right, just thinking about 2.0.x compatability |
| 21:05.24 | brlcad | there's nothing that would prevent having a banning control panel be fed a normal username, or having an in-game ban that ends up banning a user regardless of having a unique handle in place (e.g., it could do the lookup for you, or just ban by name and leave it at that) |
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| 21:05.52 | brlcad | are we really going for 2.0 compat on what will potentially be a much more flexible/powerful system? |
| 21:06.02 | trepan | bzids have always be treated as strings |
| 21:06.10 | brlcad | could acheive compat by keeping the web url responding and doing conversions automatically on the backend |
| 21:06.11 | blast007 | trepan: yeah, noticing that |
| 21:06.19 | blast007 | so I guess that should still work |
| 21:10.42 | Wyk3d | brlcad: the problem is when an offender changes its username to try and avoid being banned |
| 21:11.52 | Wyk3d | solving that depends more on having logs of name changes rather than whether there is a bzid or not |
| 21:13.14 | Wyk3d | so you may not need bzids for bans .. |
| 21:17.13 | Wyk3d | i would think servers might use it ? |
| 21:17.34 | Thumper_ | players change their callsigns occasionaly and for admins on servers it's useful to be able to figure out who that callsign (with perms) really is. I've been using bzid for that so far. |
| 21:17.47 | Wyk3d | exacty |
| 21:18.07 | Thumper_ | ie give perms to X that becomes Y, then Z, then Q ... 6 months down the road it would be nice to have an easy way to relate Q to X |
| 21:18.44 | Wyk3d | logs can do that, but i guess you cannot give everyone access to them or ? |
| 21:19.46 | brlcad | Wyk3d: that's a technical detail based on how it's presently implemented, not an inherint limitation |
| 21:19.49 | Wyk3d | but yeah .. still not "easy" |
| 21:20.01 | Thumper_ | s/easy/possible/ |
| 21:20.07 | brlcad | if I get 'brlcad' banned, it's our job on the implementation side to determine when I log in as user 'learner' that I'm still banned |
| 21:20.24 | brlcad | and that should be entirely possible, yes |
| 21:20.37 | Wyk3d | what if you change your username, and someone else registers brlcad ? |
| 21:20.40 | brlcad | the fact that the admins need to hunt down a bzid is not good |
| 21:20.43 | Wyk3d | should that not be allowed ? |
| 21:20.48 | brlcad | not be allowed |
| 21:21.14 | brlcad | a name is taken, unless we have some sort of staging/release pool |
| 21:21.34 | brlcad | and new names shouldn't instantly have full rights |
| 21:22.01 | brlcad | there should be a probationary status, even for auth'd accounts that have been e-mail verified |
| 21:22.52 | brlcad | something we talked about a couple years ago, a way to allow in-game registrations that allow a user to make an account then and there and play with it even on 'registration-required' servers .. but have limited abilities (like can't speak, maybe a lower TK kick tolerance) |
| 21:23.07 | brlcad | without having to leave the game to verify that e-mail first |
| 21:23.29 | brlcad | then once they verify the e-mail, and a given time-window passes, they have their 'license' to play |
| 21:24.43 | brlcad | time window being a means to limit the rate at which new accounts can be created, like first is maybe immediate (so if you confirm your e-mail, you're good), but then can't create another profile for another 24 hours, for example |
| 21:25.00 | Wyk3d | that would only be a matter of adding/removing a group when the email is received i guess |
| 21:25.38 | Wyk3d | s/received/confirmed |
| 21:27.31 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:27.48 | brlcad | but having another more basic group from the moment the account is created |
| 21:28.14 | Wyk3d | that time window would need to be verified by online services as well .. so they would have to ask bzauthd unless it exports the IP / time relation to a mysql table |
| 21:28.32 | brlcad | if they can create accounts in-game and play immediately, then we actually have reasonable usability ground to stand on to require username registration for network play |
| 21:29.21 | brlcad | i'd expect all account actions (creation, deletion, authentication, changes) to go through bzauthd myself |
| 21:29.56 | brlcad | make it the broker for all those changes so we can make the backend be whatever we need it to be (like if it needs to manually tweak a phpbb table if a new profile is added, whatever) |
| 21:31.01 | Wyk3d | well that seems harder to maintain than ldap plugins for the services |
| 21:32.03 | Wyk3d | or even if they would talk to bzauthd directly, why not also call the internal functions from the same location ? |
| 21:32.29 | Wyk3d | s/internal/service specific |
| 21:35.06 | brlcad | well yeah, ideally it just does its thing and updates ldap, not mucks with other resources |
| 21:35.24 | brlcad | it's if it HAD to, then everything would update by just changing bzauthd's implementation |
| 21:35.43 | brlcad | instead of changing the access code in N places and potentially screw compatibility |
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| 21:46.20 | TheRedBaron | so this is where the brlcad retreated into hiding :P |
| 21:53.50 | brlcad | hm? heh |
| 21:53.58 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: I'm not hiding :) |
| 21:57.24 | TheRedBaron | Just wanted to see if you were familiar with the scotch: Auchentoshan |
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| 22:04.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 22:05.56 | JefferyM | man do I hate VMMs |
| 22:19.24 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19570 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/DirectoryNames.h src/game/DirectoryNames.cxx): add getModuleDir so that we can know where the executable we are running from is located. Stubbed out for nix and tosh. |
| 22:20.10 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19571 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: write out the last run bzfs location to the config dir on each startup if we can. |
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| 22:23.12 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19572 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/DirectoryNames.h src/game/DirectoryNames.cxx): add a method to get the current executables name, stubbed out on nix and tosh. |
| 22:23.37 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19573 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: write the bzfs full path, not just the dir, in case it was renamed? |
| 22:25.03 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19574 10/trunk/bzflag/src/ (bzflag/bzflag.cxx bzfs/bzfs.cxx): write out the client dir and exe path as well |
| 22:34.17 | trepan | what are the *.dir files for ? |
| 22:35.05 | JefferyM | telling external tools where the bzfs and bzflag executables are |
| 22:35.15 | JefferyM | for the last run exe |
| 22:35.53 | JefferyM | unless you can think of a better place to save em? |
| 22:36.04 | trepan | which external tools? |
| 22:36.14 | JefferyM | the ones I'm writing now :) |
| 22:36.17 | JefferyM | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.22 | JefferyM | and a client optiosn launcher |
| 22:36.31 | JefferyM | and probalby bzworkbench later |
| 22:36.38 | JefferyM | for a "test" option |
| 22:39.35 | JefferyM | brlcad, where does the mac store it's config files? |
| 22:40.37 | JefferyM | blast007, finding the OS is pretty easy, Environment.OSVersion.Platform |
| 22:40.43 | JefferyM | if (Environment.OSVersion.Platform == PlatformID.MacOSX) |
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| 23:00.56 | joevano | JefferyM: the user config files? like the executables files? |
| 23:01.02 | joevano | or* |
| 23:01.09 | JefferyM | like the client config |
| 23:01.24 | JefferyM | basicly the "my bzflag files" folder that windows has |
| 23:01.37 | JefferyM | place we do the cache files and screenshots, etc.. |
| 23:01.42 | joevano | in ~/Library/Application Support/BZFlag/2.0/ |
| 23:01.55 | JefferyM | oh,.. so it's not per user |
| 23:01.56 | joevano | or i assume 3.0 for trunk |
| 23:02.06 | JefferyM | interesting |
| 23:02.13 | joevano | yeah ~ is the user drectory |
| 23:02.18 | JefferyM | oh ok |
| 23:02.35 | JefferyM | will that path always work if I just put ~ in the code? |
| 23:02.42 | joevano | there is a /Library and each user has a ~/Library |
| 23:02.45 | JefferyM | checks his special dir list |
| 23:03.04 | joevano | i would imagine so... but not certain |
| 23:03.24 | JefferyM | I'm gonna start with Environment.SpecialFolder.LocalApplicationData and see what that gives me :) |
| 23:04.07 | joevano | techincally ~ is the eqiv of /user/<user_name>... usually |
| 23:04.08 | res|laptop | uhm. so I suppose my question is so stupid that noone bothers to answer? :p |
| 23:04.28 | JefferyM | you had a question in there? |
| 23:04.37 | joevano | well .... |
| 23:04.38 | JefferyM | sorry I was like working for a bit and didn't read the scrollback |
| 23:04.47 | joevano | yeah me either |
| 23:05.06 | res|laptop | right now my proposal kind of consists of "integrate that stuff into scene system that's missing" |
| 23:05.09 | res|laptop | but it kind of seems ... thin to me |
| 23:05.16 | res|laptop | or maybe a clean scene rendering system *is* a big enough task but I'm underestimating it right now? |
| 23:05.19 | JefferyM | well that's a thin description of what you have to do |
| 23:05.46 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: oh yeah! absolutely |
| 23:05.51 | JefferyM | are you asking if you should also propose to optimise the entire rendering system too? |
| 23:05.57 | res|laptop | nah |
| 23:05.58 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: that's a wonderful scotch |
| 23:06.05 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: that it is! |
| 23:06.05 | JefferyM | then what are you asking? |
| 23:06.20 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: that's very close to balvenie's flavor |
| 23:06.45 | brlcad | JefferyM: yeah, what joevano said .. |
| 23:06.52 | JefferyM | thanks |
| 23:07.00 | brlcad | "Library" is the place to store app specific data on macs |
| 23:07.07 | JefferyM | I stubbed the functions I Need in directoryInfo |
| 23:07.17 | JefferyM | windows has implementations but not the others |
| 23:07.35 | brlcad | we're not quite using it the way we should right now, but it's simple/obvious enough |
| 23:07.54 | JefferyM | yeah that makes it easy to find from the tool so good enough |
| 23:08.01 | brlcad | e.g., our prefs aren't in ~/Library/Preferences/BZFlag/2.0 they're over in that app support dir |
| 23:08.09 | brlcad | but whoopty do |
| 23:08.23 | JefferyM | dude, I put the windows prefs in the "my documents" folder ;) |
| 23:08.53 | brlcad | screenshots would normally get put right into the user's Pictures folder instead of Library, since it's actual user data once they take the picture |
| 23:09.07 | brlcad | yet they're also over in the app support dir |
| 23:09.09 | JefferyM | where would worlds go |
| 23:09.16 | JefferyM | probalby just docs I guess |
| 23:09.18 | brlcad | yeah, nobody has complained too loudly |
| 23:09.29 | res|laptop | JefferyM: well something like "ensure clean split between game and rendering logic". I can't give a lot of detail, I'm not that deep in the whole source :o |
| 23:09.31 | brlcad | they should be happy we let them take pictures at all! |
| 23:09.35 | brlcad | *ahem* j/k |
| 23:09.46 | JefferyM | res|laptop, well give what you can |
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| 23:10.04 | res|laptop | hmm |
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| 23:10.11 | JefferyM | the important thign would be an overview of what oyu think your final API would look like |
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| 23:10.31 | JefferyM | if you have that, then that's the basics of your design and tha'ts fine |
| 23:10.51 | JefferyM | the openGL split project is the easiest one we have listed there IMHO |
| 23:10.57 | res|laptop | okay... |
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| 23:14.46 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: Excellent - I shall make note of the Balvenie for my next purchse. |
| 23:24.12 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: the balvenie 21year portwood |
| 23:24.29 | brlcad | doublewood is a lot cheaper and almost as good, flavor is delicious |
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| 23:55.11 | alexbance | hey, wanted to let you know i'm not able to send a patch until the deadline today. i have the buildable code but i'm swapmed with a school project this weekend |
| 23:56.23 | alexbance | /msg nickserver login passwd |
| 23:58.29 | Winny | nickserver? :P |