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| 00:19.42 | spldart | my vc9 ee has encountered an error. And wants to know if I would like it to send an error report to microsoft.. I clicked yes... the box closes and vc9 ee is still building away for the last 10 minutes. |
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| 00:26.30 | blast007 | KTL: basically that video shows the full functionality of the "game" ;) |
| 00:27.07 | blast007 | the code is horrible |
| 00:27.19 | blast007 | since I was learning C# and XNA while writing it |
| 00:39.34 | JeffM | ponders a C# lua combo engine |
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| 01:21.23 | spldart | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m46ed3c96 |
| 01:23.26 | leeguy92 | u reckon i should use UDP for the user input to the server? |
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| 01:35.54 | JeffM | what happen when that input dosn't get to the server? |
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| 01:44.27 | leeguy92 | server does nothing, i guess. only until the next one gets there.........ah, i see what u mean. i could use less bandwidth if i didn't constantly say: forward to the server |
| 01:44.34 | *** part/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.133.170.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 01:45.15 | JeffM | no, I mean what if your local client thinks it sent 4 forwards and a left, and your server only got 4 forwards |
| 01:45.24 | JeffM | they are not in the same place ;) |
| 01:46.59 | leeguy92 | i keep forgetting how fast the internet is, and worrying about control lag |
| 01:47.21 | JeffM | again, you can mask the lag with a local copy of your sim |
| 01:48.30 | leeguy92 | yeah, but when you stop moving forward, if the lag was too much the server tank would keep moving, and you would be nauseatingly jerked forward. |
| 01:49.05 | JeffM | no, you send the stop to the local sim |
| 01:49.08 | JeffM | you stop |
| 01:49.12 | JeffM | you send the stop to the remote sim |
| 01:49.20 | JeffM | it sends the stop, with your timestamp |
| 01:49.24 | JeffM | you get the stop |
| 01:49.28 | JeffM | you are stoped allready, |
| 01:49.30 | JeffM | states match |
| 01:50.51 | leeguy92 | ah, you send it with a timestamp..... |
| 01:51.03 | JeffM | ohh yeah, you always need a timestamp |
| 01:51.05 | CIA-65 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19237 10/trunk/bzflag/src/lua/LuaParser.cxx: * windows warnings |
| 01:51.10 | JeffM | postion is useless with out a timestamp |
| 01:54.08 | a_meteorite | Lua...? oh I must have missed quite a bit :) |
| 01:54.23 | JeffM | you did |
| 01:59.43 | trepan | spldart: static_cast<> will probably fix the LuaPack.cxx warnings, and i have the LuaOpenGL one done ... my next 'real' commit has both |
| 02:00.33 | spldart | I just started started the retest build a bit after your commit... Should I wait? |
| 02:01.01 | trepan | i wont be committing it tonight ... up to you |
| 02:01.13 | spldart | oki doke... :) |
| 02:05.13 | spldart | == Build: 5 succeeded, 0 failed, 20 up-to-date, 0 skipped == |
| 02:05.16 | spldart | :) |
| 02:06.18 | a_meteorite | in a sentence, what is the Lua for? I always thought Lua's only use was in specialized places and scripting |
| 02:07.04 | JeffM | scripting |
| 02:07.07 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 02:08.09 | spldart | succinct. |
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| 03:23.58 | temp_dist | the /saveworld command (in 2.0_branch) is buggy - doesn't save the settings or even the bases correctly |
| 03:24.48 | blast007 | temp_dist: does it work right in trunk? |
| 03:25.05 | temp_dist | haven't tested enough |
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| 05:47.44 | KingRobot | ping JeffM |
| 05:47.48 | JeffM | ? |
| 05:47.54 | SportChick | pong JeffM |
| 05:48.08 | JeffM | sup? |
| 05:48.10 | KingRobot | Do you know anything about "Cross server communications system" - the GSoC project a while back? |
| 05:48.16 | JeffM | yes |
| 05:48.24 | KingRobot | Did that ever get anywhere? |
| 05:48.27 | JeffM | nope |
| 05:49.26 | KingRobot | I've been thinking about developing a system similar to that, first as a 2.0 plugin, then if successful, for 3.0 |
| 05:49.34 | JeffM | k |
| 05:49.38 | KingRobot | I had in mind a simple client/server system... |
| 05:49.44 | JeffM | 2.0 will be very limited |
| 05:49.55 | JeffM | but whatever floats your boat |
| 05:50.02 | KingRobot | Now I know we talked the other day (in the context of stats) that you didn't like the idea of a socket being open |
| 05:50.12 | KingRobot | Would the same apply to the communications system? |
| 05:50.24 | JeffM | would depend on how it was used |
| 05:50.30 | JeffM | but yeah, you'd want to minimise them |
| 05:50.45 | JeffM | for communications latency is somewhat of an issue |
| 05:50.49 | KingRobot | well, a single primary messaging server |
| 05:50.53 | JeffM | so that could justify keeping something open |
| 05:51.01 | KingRobot | then each bzfs would have a single connection to that |
| 05:51.13 | KingRobot | very simple, no fancy P2P type stuff |
| 05:51.14 | JeffM | and what happens when that single point of failure goes down? |
| 05:51.34 | KingRobot | you bring it back up? |
| 05:51.50 | JeffM | that's why the SoC project was looking into usin IRC |
| 05:52.00 | JeffM | it's allready setup for redundancy |
| 05:52.26 | JeffM | but again, whatever floats your boat |
| 05:53.15 | KingRobot | So in the context of getting something into 3.0 eventually... |
| 05:53.21 | KingRobot | You don't really care, as long as it works? |
| 05:53.29 | JeffM | oh god no |
| 05:53.34 | JeffM | we totaly care |
| 05:53.41 | KingRobot | Well that's kinda what I'm asking |
| 05:53.44 | JeffM | we do not want another list server/phpbb thing on our hands |
| 05:53.55 | JeffM | single points of failure are huge problems |
| 05:54.07 | KingRobot | So I don't get off on a direction that's totally not where you want to go.... |
| 05:54.10 | JeffM | this would be why I mention it |
| 05:54.25 | JeffM | honestly, cross server communication is WAY low on our lists |
| 05:54.43 | JeffM | 3.0 just needs to ship |
| 05:54.46 | JeffM | it dosn't need any more features |
| 05:55.00 | JeffM | if you want to work on com, sure |
| 05:55.05 | JeffM | that's your perogitive |
| 05:55.15 | KingRobot | Okay |
| 05:55.16 | JeffM | I'd like something that is opt in, rather then opt out |
| 05:55.21 | JeffM | on a per server basis |
| 05:55.30 | JeffM | and can use some sort of redundant server system |
| 05:56.04 | KingRobot | Both make sense... |
| 05:56.33 | KingRobot | Would 2 (com servers) be enough? |
| 05:56.44 | JeffM | it should not be a hardcoded number |
| 05:56.52 | JeffM | optimaly the system would work with N |
| 05:56.58 | JeffM | and we would expand as needed |
| 05:58.37 | KingRobot | How reliable? (if #1 goes down, com fails until it connects to #N) or more reliable? |
| 05:58.50 | JeffM | as relyable as possible would be best |
| 05:59.03 | JeffM | IRC has transperant fallovers with round robbin DNS |
| 05:59.19 | JeffM | just those on the booted server poof, then they reconnect to the next server in the link |
| 05:59.27 | KingRobot | right |
| 05:59.38 | JeffM | IRC could be considered the basic example of what could be expected |
| 05:59.42 | JeffM | it works in a similar way |
| 05:59.48 | JeffM | channels == server, etc.. |
| 06:00.58 | JeffM | I did a proof of concept plugin for 3.0 that uses IRC |
| 06:01.09 | JeffM | it's pretty simple and works decently well |
| 06:01.31 | KingRobot | is the code in SVN? |
| 06:01.35 | JeffM | all it would really need is some IRC services that could help you find reged players, etc. |
| 06:01.43 | JeffM | yeah but not in the bzflag dir |
| 06:01.47 | JeffM | it's in the custom plugins dir |
| 06:03.14 | JeffM | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/custom_plugins/irclink |
| 06:03.32 | KingRobot | In that case, why don't you just leave it to the plugin and a bot or two that monitor the channel? |
| 06:03.41 | KingRobot | The IRC service shouldn't need to be involved |
| 06:03.41 | JeffM | it adds a fake player for each IRC user that isn't a real player, and an IRC bot for each player in the IRC channel |
| 06:04.09 | JeffM | the IRC service would come into play when looking for players on other servers |
| 06:04.13 | JeffM | cus you'd have to /msg them |
| 06:04.21 | JeffM | and handling like reged and non reged, etc.. |
| 06:04.27 | JeffM | just to make it TOTALY cool |
| 06:04.41 | JeffM | and by IRC services I mean "bot" like chanserv and nickserv |
| 06:04.47 | JeffM | those are IRC services |
| 06:04.55 | JeffM | since they are run but the server |
| 06:05.14 | JeffM | you'd want to set hostmasks and stuff based on reg status, etc.. so you could find people easier |
| 06:05.29 | JeffM | but yeah it woudln't be too much else other then the plugin and some IRCDs |
| 06:05.46 | JeffM | chat.bzflag.org :) |
| 06:06.20 | JeffM | you'd want to make sure that when you have name confilcts you always gave the "real" name to the reged user, etc.. |
| 06:06.32 | JeffM | so you'd have to have it tied into global auth on some level |
| 06:06.51 | KingRobot | you would still have a single point of failure |
| 06:07.06 | KingRobot | the phpbb for tracking reg'd users |
| 06:09.33 | JeffM | yeah but we have plans to resolve that |
| 06:09.41 | JeffM | I just don't want to add any NEW ones ;) |
| 06:09.59 | KingRobot | :) |
| 06:10.05 | blast007 | KingRobot: LDAP will likely be used at one point for auth |
| 06:10.12 | JeffM | indeed |
| 06:10.24 | JeffM | and tying IRC services into that should not be too bad |
| 06:10.58 | blast007 | Jabber might be something to look into as well for cross-server chat |
| 06:11.03 | JeffM | indeed |
| 06:11.17 | JeffM | it makes sense to at last look into existing systems that do this |
| 06:11.43 | blast007 | I had always invisioned it as more of a lobby system; something like this: http://static.bzexcess.com/misc_screenshots/Albatross18_Lobby.png |
| 06:11.46 | JeffM | using an IM client to talk to people in game == cool |
| 06:12.16 | KingRobot | agreed (re in game) |
| 06:13.03 | KingRobot | if you don't mind linking bzid to bzid@bzflag.org, it should be quite doable |
| 06:13.08 | blast007 | with a lobby you could find some players that would want to go to a certain server, or get in touch with your teammates for a match |
| 06:13.11 | blast007 | etc |
| 06:14.08 | KingRobot | I don't know that most jabber servers have the redundancy that you want though |
| 06:14.39 | blast007 | yeah, that's one thing I wasn't sure about |
| 06:15.21 | JeffM | perhaps not |
| 06:15.32 | KingRobot | ejabberd can cluster itself, but it only usable over lan, so you still have the 'net link that can go down |
| 06:15.35 | JeffM | that's why we said look into ;) |
| 06:15.38 | JeffM | not use |
| 06:15.53 | JeffM | there ARE systems that offer what we want, may as well use em :) |
| 06:16.01 | JeffM | and yeah we can do user@bzflag.net just fine |
| 06:17.00 | KingRobot | Regardless of the bzfs protocol, there ought to be a way to link a jabber server into it |
| 06:17.25 | KingRobot | meaning, for example, if IRC was used, we could still do a jabber->IRC bridge to make it happen |
| 06:19.16 | JeffM | many IM clients support IRC so it would not be a big issue |
| 06:21.19 | blast007 | main problem with IRC is that some hosting providers don't allow running IRC servers |
| 06:21.27 | JeffM | true |
| 06:21.43 | JeffM | thankfully I know of 4 that do ;) |
| 06:22.13 | JeffM | bzflag.org, awesomelaser.com, bzflag.de |
| 06:22.16 | blast007 | sagonet allows them, but doesn't "support" them. "if an IRC service leads to any malicious activities or problems on our network we reserve the right to suspend or cancel the server in question." |
| 06:22.46 | JeffM | it woudl not be that big of an IRC network so I doubt it would be an issue |
| 06:22.54 | JeffM | we'd not ask to show up in xchat or anything ;) |
| 06:23.01 | blast007 | yeah |
| 06:23.08 | JeffM | we could even set services to only allow channels for game servers, etc.. |
| 06:23.16 | JeffM | it's be locked down pretty tight |
| 06:23.27 | JeffM | heck, I'd be ok to only allowing reged users access to the global chat system |
| 06:23.34 | JeffM | just another reason to reg |
| 06:23.38 | KingRobot | I'd totally agree with that |
| 06:23.52 | KingRobot | unreg'd users only communicate within a server |
| 06:24.21 | blast007 | KingRobot: or not even that. |
| 06:24.35 | KingRobot | depending on the server owner, yeah |
| 06:24.36 | blast007 | if they want to use global chat, they have to register. ;) |
| 06:25.29 | blast007 | the server owner wouldn't decide. it would be a project service. |
| 06:26.02 | KingRobot | I meant the server owner could decide if someone could chat within their own server |
| 06:26.08 | JeffM | you 2 are talking about the same thing ;) |
| 06:26.08 | KingRobot | just as now |
| 06:27.04 | blast007 | KingRobot: k, thought you meant they could only use global chat if they were joined to a server |
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| 15:05.03 | delusional | ~bzquery delusion.mine.nu:5154 |
| 15:06.23 | me1 | ~bzFquery delusion.mine.nu:5154 |
| 15:11.22 | delusional | thanks me |
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| 16:06.29 | leeguy92 | would UDP be a good idea for positional updates of the other players in an FPS like bzflag. could it be achieved through TCP at reasonable speed? |
| 16:07.17 | blast007 | is there a reason you'd want TCP? |
| 16:08.08 | leeguy92 | aside from simplicity(getting through NAT for example), no |
| 16:08.10 | blast007 | you'd be added overhead and wasting bandwidth with TCP. If a positional update gets lost, it's not the end of the world. Another update is coming soon anyway. |
| 16:08.50 | blast007 | some games are UDP only |
| 16:09.13 | blast007 | http://www.jenkinssoftware.com/ <-- UDP only network library |
| 16:09.14 | leeguy92 | that sounds troublesome |
| 16:09.28 | blast007 | why? |
| 16:09.41 | leeguy92 | important data gettin lost etc... |
| 16:10.03 | blast007 | they can implement their own headers/packets for that |
| 16:10.13 | leeguy92 | wouldnt u end up implementing a layer to deal with that |
| 16:10.16 | leeguy92 | yea |
| 16:10.23 | blast007 | raknet has that as a feature |
| 16:10.24 | leeguy92 | seems like you might as well use tcp |
| 16:10.52 | trepan | http://enet.bespin.org/ |
| 16:12.03 | blast007 | trepan: ooo, I like the sound of that one too |
| 16:12.11 | blast007 | and I much prefer that license ;) |
| 16:12.15 | leeguy92 | hmm, i see |
| 16:12.30 | trepan | sauerbraten/cube used it, iirc |
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| 16:12.50 | leeguy92 | is a noob, and can be wrong |
| 16:12.58 | leeguy92 | a noob to game dev |
| 16:14.05 | leeguy92 | the mit license makes the GPL sound like the Microsoft EULA(tm) |
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| 18:45.52 | trepan | "displayZoom" -- wanted? needed ? |
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| 18:51.01 | blast007 | trepan: is that related to the bzflag -zoom parameter? |
| 18:51.21 | trepan | yes |
| 18:56.31 | blast007 | not sure if it's just my horrible intel graphics on here, but that doesn't seem to work too well (blurs the menu). |
| 18:57.09 | trepan | i think it's kind of useless ;-) |
| 18:57.17 | trepan | (and can be done better / faster in different ways) |
| 18:58.06 | trepan | currently cleaning up drawFrame(), creating sub-funcs, etc... |
| 18:58.40 | trepan | so unless there are any reasonable objections, displayZoom dies ;-) |
| 18:58.50 | JeffM | what did it do? |
| 18:58.54 | blast007 | yeah, I think that feature can go away. For me, it only shows the game in the bottom left quarter of the screen |
| 18:59.10 | trepan | it used glPixelZoom to zoom part of the screen |
| 18:59.16 | JeffM | ewwww |
| 18:59.19 | trepan | heh, ya |
| 18:59.22 | JeffM | kill it kiill it |
| 18:59.47 | JeffM | I'd rather change the FOV to zoom |
| 18:59.49 | JeffM | simpler |
| 19:00.04 | JeffM | or move the camera point |
| 19:02.02 | JeffM | if you want to do picture in a picture thing, then make a new context and stencel it in |
| 19:02.30 | trepan | or scissor |
| 19:02.32 | trepan | or FBO |
| 19:02.52 | JeffM | yeah many ways |
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| 20:29.19 | JeffM | trepan: you arround? |
| 20:33.08 | JeffM | nm, think I found it |
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| 22:32.05 | a_temp_dist | BZ Wiki search for "random map" finds the words separately - shouldn't it find only the complete phrase? |
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| 23:06.49 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=chatzill@c-98-244-156-31.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 23:07.12 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@c-24-3-131-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:07.46 | I_Died_Once | This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem |
| 23:08.02 | I_Died_Once | I'm on Windows XP and trying to run bz 2.99 |
| 23:08.15 | I_Died_Once | i've reinstalled it several times trying to get it rolling |
| 23:08.24 | JeffM | you need the vc 2008 runtimes |
| 23:08.32 | I_Died_Once | ....link me? |
| 23:08.43 | I_Died_Once | pretty please with sugar on top |
| 23:08.53 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
| 23:09.48 | JeffM | iirc blast had a link in his thread |
| 23:09.52 | JeffM | if not just google it |
| 23:10.06 | *** join/#bzflag temp_dist (n=temp_dis@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 23:15.13 | blast007 | yeah... there is a link in the thread.. |
| 23:16.20 | blast007 | you need the 2008 SP1 runtimes |
| 23:17.08 | blast007 | I_Died_Once: ^^ |
| 23:21.14 | I_Died_Once | thx, its working now |
| 23:21.18 | I_Died_Once | woot woot |
| 23:21.26 | I_Died_Once | good job, yo.... |
| 23:27.49 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@c-24-3-131-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:30.16 | *** join/#bzflag GimpMachine (n=GimpMach@c-98-244-156-31.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 23:31.22 | GimpMachine | can someone link me to where i can find instructions on getting and compiling the cvs of bzflag? |
| 23:31.37 | GimpMachine | i know its svn now but i still cant find comprehensive instructions |
| 23:31.56 | JeffM | the readme for your OS will tell you |
| 23:32.25 | GimpMachine | i cant even find that |
| 23:32.28 | GimpMachine | debian linux |
| 23:32.29 | GimpMachine | etch |
| 23:32.50 | JeffM | ibot bzsvn |
| 23:32.51 | ibot | rumour has it, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 23:33.07 | temp_dist | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Compiling |
| 23:34.48 | GimpMachine | ty i got it downloading |
