| 00:00.17 | Winny | echelon: that |
| 00:00.17 | Winny | err |
| 00:00.17 | Winny | that |
| 00:00.17 | Winny | GAH |
| 00:00.17 | echelon | what? |
| 00:00.19 | Winny | you should report that to #freenode |
| 00:00.30 | echelon | i meant on bzflag |
| 00:00.36 | Winny | oh |
| 00:00.40 | Winny | server? |
| 00:00.50 | echelon | shooting gallery |
| 00:15.19 | *** join/#bzflag LittleLep (n=46b5b7cb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-ac5dd6fa3f0521e5) |
| 00:15.40 | LittleLep | Hello all |
| 00:16.16 | JeffM | ok then |
| 00:16.27 | Winny | he's migthnare iirc |
| 00:16.35 | JeffM | ahh |
| 00:16.36 | Winny | err, wow, I think I'l lysdexic |
| 00:16.47 | Winny | ... /me leaves |
| 00:16.51 | JeffM | why does bzflagr.net have a web IRC that comes here? |
| 00:17.10 | Winny | ..because I asked and someone said that was fine? |
| 00:17.21 | JeffM | do you think we need more then one? |
| 00:17.47 | Winny | want me to dump it? I need to prune channels anyways |
| 00:17.55 | JeffM | I don't think we need more then one |
| 00:18.01 | JeffM | unless you think otherwise |
| 00:18.08 | JeffM | so it may be good do dump it |
| 00:18.11 | Constitution | CGI-IRC on m.b.o has had problems in the past |
| 00:18.27 | JeffM | then we should fix those |
| 00:18.29 | Winny | k gone |
| 00:18.34 | JeffM | thanks |
| 00:18.37 | Winny | along with about 20 other channels |
| 00:19.28 | Winny | ooh, verminators and dirty jobs are on tonight |
| 00:21.01 | Winny | totally offtopic, but this blows me away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sIB2kL-BWc |
| 00:21.23 | JeffM | yeah that was a good one |
| 00:21.49 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-98-233-35-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:24.14 | Winny | you can get them apart by jiggling the pages - tried it yesterday |
| 00:24.57 | CBG | ... just pull gently |
| 00:25.13 | Winny | doesn't work either :) |
| 00:25.31 | JeffM | pulling makes it pinch and that makes it harder |
| 00:25.39 | *** part/#bzflag echelon (n=echelon@ool-182cc7a4.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:25.51 | CBG | yeah, the harder you pull, the harder it is to separate them |
| 00:26.05 | Winny | yeah, but it's relative, so the less you pull the less overall energy there is to seperate them in the first place |
| 00:27.00 | JeffM | it's interesting to say the least |
| 00:30.11 | CBG | say, JeffM... do people use UML diagrams in the real world⢠? |
| 00:30.30 | JeffM | we probalby would if we designed something complex from scratch |
| 00:30.37 | CBG | ah ok |
| 00:30.44 | JeffM | I could see a lot of internet based development using it |
| 00:30.58 | JeffM | when you have a lot of things on various servers work together |
| 00:31.05 | JeffM | but no, we've never used one here |
| 00:31.15 | CBG | I'm gonn email my course leaders to b**ch about how we aint learning crap. UML is about the only thing we have leant but if it's useful, I'll not whine about that |
| 00:31.32 | JeffM | it is |
| 00:31.43 | JeffM | there are lots of cool tools that can take UML and frame out code for you |
| 00:32.07 | JeffM | I mean it's not like that's all the course should be about, but it is good for teaching how to layout an app |
| 00:32.13 | JeffM | and that is often the hardest part |
| 00:32.24 | AHA | That's what SHE said!!! |
| 00:32.27 | AHA | had to :P |
| 00:32.30 | JeffM | and it's very usefull when you work with databases |
| 00:32.40 | CBG | Oh yeah. I did my homework at http://www.websequencediagrams.com/ ;) |
| 00:32.42 | blast007 | AHA: no, you didn't |
| 00:33.29 | JeffM | for sequencing yeah tools like that make it easy |
| 00:33.43 | CBG | Yeah, we're spending 3 lessons out of the 11-lesson SAD module on UML, so it's not too heavy on it. |
| 00:34.15 | JeffM | that's probably a good amount |
| 00:34.25 | JeffM | at least you have UML now |
| 00:34.28 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18761 10/trunk/bzflag/ (5 files in 2 dirs): start a basic stat push system. |
| 00:34.30 | JeffM | it all used to be flowcharts ;) |
| 00:34.35 | CBG | heh |
| 00:34.57 | CBG | well, t's only sequence diagrams we've done. not the rest of UML. that would take a whole module ;) |
| 00:34.58 | JeffM | now, where to put the server? |
| 00:35.31 | JeffM | when you have multiple module interaction it's very good to know how you are going to do things |
| 00:35.36 | Constitution | db? |
| 00:35.40 | JeffM | maybe |
| 00:35.52 | JeffM | it does it's own thing tho |
| 00:36.01 | JeffM | so that mysql dosn't get hit |
| 00:36.12 | JeffM | and it's not tied to thelist |
| 00:37.04 | JeffM | I basicly want it to replace MOST of DB |
| 00:37.24 | JeffM | and get stats.bzflag.org moved to a seperate SF or google project that just reads the data from this thing |
| 00:40.11 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18762 10/trunk/db/bzfstats/ (12 files in 3 dirs): basic server to track server and player stat stat updates and serve them to external sites. |
| 00:56.01 | *** join/#bzflag Sgeo (n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:56.03 | Sgeo | Hi all |
| 00:56.23 | Sgeo | Are there any videos of people cheating in BZFlag? Not asking how to cheat, just asking for videos of people cheating |
| 00:56.36 | Sgeo | It would be very useful for my persuasive speech |
| 00:56.45 | JeffM | I don't know of any |
| 00:57.01 | Sgeo | couldn't find any on YouTube :/ |
| 00:57.02 | JeffM | your speech? |
| 00:57.25 | Sgeo | On why servers shouldn't trust clients |
| 00:57.52 | JeffM | who are you giving this too? that should be a very common sense thing. |
| 00:58.12 | Sgeo | My public speaking class |
| 00:58.17 | JeffM | fun |
| 00:59.00 | temp_dist | non-tech people? try to limit the jargon... |
| 00:59.06 | Winny | Sgeo: you could set up a private server and do some f5ing or something |
| 00:59.12 | Sgeo | f5? |
| 00:59.29 | Sgeo | Been a while since I played BZFlag |
| 00:59.31 | JeffM | spam F5 to take screenshots and you can go thru thin things |
| 01:00.15 | Sgeo | oO |
| 01:00.40 | JeffM | but this isn't the place on how to talk about cheating |
| 01:01.05 | JeffM | I think you should look more at the various papers on video game network comunication |
| 01:01.12 | JeffM | ratehr then "look see.." |
| 01:01.21 | JeffM | as many of the cheats could also be attributed to lag |
| 01:02.17 | Sgeo | Huge shockwaves cannot be attributed to lag |
| 01:02.27 | JeffM | I said, many not all |
| 01:11.16 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-096-030.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 01:11.52 | blast007 | huge shockwaves are also no longer possible |
| 01:12.01 | JeffM | yeah some things are no longer possible |
| 01:12.23 | blast007 | that was a exploit back in early 1.7 |
| 01:12.27 | blast007 | an* |
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| 01:12.49 | JeffM | all the shot data should come from the server now in 2.99, the shot message is just "go boom" |
| 01:13.02 | JeffM | so even if you tweak stuff on your end, it only affects what you see |
| 01:14.23 | Sgeo | Glad to see that that was fixed |
| 01:14.47 | Sgeo | Does the server sending information that the client should not necessarily have count as "the server trusting the client"? |
| 01:15.17 | Sgeo | Because then I could include wallhacks, even though those are impossible to eliminate and still have a game that runs at more than 1fps |
| 01:15.57 | JeffM | where are you getting this info? |
| 01:16.01 | Sgeo | Hm? |
| 01:16.02 | JeffM | 1fps? what are you talking about? |
| 01:16.32 | JeffM | there are many ways to prevent the various collision cheats, and still keep the same frame rate we have now |
| 01:16.38 | Sgeo | Not collision |
| 01:16.46 | Sgeo | Erm, by wallhack, I meant seeing through walls |
| 01:16.46 | JeffM | I mean it's not like internet gaming is rocket science. |
| 01:16.51 | JeffM | ahh |
| 01:17.09 | JeffM | there are a number of minor things that are not worth trying to prevent |
| 01:17.10 | Sgeo | I guess "wallhack" is the wrong term? |
| 01:17.14 | JeffM | yes it is |
| 01:17.22 | JeffM | the game advantage of that would be minimal |
| 01:17.31 | JeffM | tho I have some ideas on how to minimise what they can do |
| 01:17.43 | Sgeo | The thing is, I believe "seeing through wall" thing might be something that at least a few people in the class might have experienced |
| 01:17.50 | JeffM | maybe |
| 01:17.51 | Sgeo | Then from there I could go into more significant stuff |
| 01:18.14 | JeffM | but you should know that games like quake, have the server send the drawable stuff to the client, and it runs at a lot more then 1fps ;) |
| 01:18.15 | Sgeo | Like SQL Injection, which in a way is trusting the client not to send anything that might mess up the SQL |
| 01:18.48 | JeffM | anything that goes over the internet should have sanitised inputs |
| 01:18.56 | JeffM | specificly if they are text driven |
| 01:19.04 | JeffM | bzflag was not made to be an inernet game |
| 01:45.30 | temp_dist | JeffM: Alice has updated her translator patch to the current trunk code |
| 01:45.41 | JeffM | cool |
| 01:48.13 | *** join/#bzflag Darklust (n=darklust@ool-4577089a.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:48.19 | Darklust | Hello. |
| 01:49.41 | JeffM | hello |
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| 02:38.31 | Flash | wow.... a shiny new cloak. Thanks JeffM (wherever you are) |
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| 03:30.37 | JeffM2501 | can anyone get to http://dnd.opencombat.net:88/ ? |
| 03:33.56 | Constitution | nope |
| 03:34.10 | Constitution | timed out |
| 03:36.58 | JeffM2501 | damns his route |
| 03:38.28 | JeffM2501 | how about now? |
| 03:39.46 | Flash | not yet |
| 03:39.50 | JeffM2501 | suck |
| 03:40.16 | Flash | traceroute isn't happy |
| 03:40.47 | Flash | wow.. I had 3 * just getting to MY ISP |
| 03:41.13 | Flash | 20 P9-0.DSL-17.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net (130.81.35.23) 61.612 ms P10-0.LCR-04.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net (130.81.30.130) 57.023 ms P9-0.DSL-17.LSANCA.verizon-gni.net (130.81.35.23) 61.341 ms |
| 03:41.20 | Flash | that seems to be my last successful hop |
| 03:41.38 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet2-46-90.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 03:41.38 | JeffM2501 | must be my firewall |
| 03:41.42 | JeffM2501 | opens ports |
| 03:42.23 | JeffM2501 | unless 88 is special.... |
| 03:42.31 | Flash | don't think so |
| 03:42.47 | Flash | but ICMP isn't getting there either |
| 03:42.54 | JeffM2501 | well sure, that's blocked ;) |
| 03:43.12 | Flash | ok, I got "unknown request" |
| 03:43.15 | Flash | that's progress |
| 03:43.16 | JeffM2501 | only opens up what he needs |
| 03:43.17 | JeffM2501 | good |
| 03:43.20 | JeffM2501 | that's what you should get :) |
| 03:43.25 | JeffM2501 | welcome to the stats server ;) |
| 03:43.33 | Flash | sucky stats |
| 03:43.46 | JeffM2501 | you didn't ask for anything |
| 03:44.00 | JeffM2501 | http://dnd.opencombat.net:88/?action=list |
| 03:44.08 | Flash | I asked for a pony |
| 03:44.21 | JeffM2501 | ponyserv 1.0 it is not |
| 03:44.28 | Flash | http://dnd.opencombat.net:88/pony |
| 03:44.50 | JeffM2501 | gotta love a web server that don't take crap from anyone ;) |
| 03:45.12 | JeffM2501 | you can put whatever you want in there and it won't 404 ;) |
| 03:48.08 | JeffM2501 | now to give it an actual server to chew on |
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| 04:02.43 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak: you arround? |
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| 05:16.47 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r18763 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (Stats.cxx Stats.h): Add the Subversion svn:eol-style=native property. |
| 05:20.38 | BulletCatcher | auto-props not set? |
| 05:20.45 | JeffM2501 | probalby not |
| 05:21.06 | JeffM2501 | did those at work, and that's a new install |
| 05:21.13 | JeffM2501 | I'll try to remember that tomoorow |
| 05:25.18 | JeffM2501 | they look to be set here |
| 05:25.30 | BulletCatcher | k |
| 05:25.54 | BulletCatcher | I have made a map that contains all flags in their own zones for easy testing. I might as well add it to the misc directory for others to use too. |
| 05:25.55 | BulletCatcher | What file should I use as a model for the copyright statement? |
| 05:29.40 | JeffM2501 | for maps, dunno |
| 05:29.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd just make something up that looks like the one sin our sources |
| 05:31.07 | BulletCatcher | k |
| 05:31.09 | blast007 | could probably copy the stuff right out of the header of a .cxx file, and change // to # |
| 05:31.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:31.42 | JeffM2501 | consitency is good |
| 05:43.57 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r18764 10/trunk/bzflag/misc/flagbuffet.bzw: This map puts three of each type of flag in its own zone, making them easy to find for testing purposes. |
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| 08:05.31 | javawizard2539 | Anyone know what's up with bzflagr.net? |
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| 08:30.10 | Happy_Alice | hi ! somebody knows how to modify the summray |
| 08:30.15 | Happy_Alice | aaarggh |
| 08:30.47 | Happy_Alice | somebody knows how to modify the summary of a submitted patch in the tracker sesction of sourceforge? |
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| 08:31.39 | Happy_Alice | he L4m3r |
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| 18:46.43 | Winny | brlcad: did your server reboot last night? |
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| 18:59.07 | Winny | shoots sagonet in the root |
| 18:59.10 | Winny | foot, even |
| 19:01.23 | notreallyhere | ~pooh Winny |
| 19:01.23 | ibot | ACTION pooh poohs Winny |
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| 19:01.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:04.32 | MindstormsKid | lol |
| 19:05.15 | Winny | ~onjoin Constitution winny: ping! |
| 19:05.25 | Winny | hmm, no onjoins allowed? :( |
| 19:05.59 | Winny | someone ping me when const shows up |
| 19:07.01 | TheRedBaron | Winny: /msg memoserv |
| 19:07.45 | Winny | forgot about that |
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| 21:00.21 | brlcad | Winny: no |
| 21:00.37 | Winny | fun |
| 21:01.41 | JeffM | so world weapons have been broken... for like ever... :/ |
| 21:01.50 | *** join/#bzflag Ratfink (n=clay@nc-67-76-227-5.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:02.31 | Winny | blames Ratfink |
| 21:02.42 | JeffM | actualy I broke part of it |
| 21:03.29 | Ratfink | You blame me for what? I'm confused! |
| 21:03.38 | Winny | goes to shoot 1and1 |
| 21:03.47 | Winny | server is down.. send a ticket to support |
| 21:03.50 | Winny | "it's not down" |
| 21:04.03 | Winny | ..but yet no one can connect. handy |
| 21:04.06 | Ratfink | so you blame me? |
| 21:04.10 | Winny | nope |
| 21:04.11 | JeffM | hugs CIA-42 |
| 21:04.11 | CIA-42 | hugs JeffM |
| 21:04.12 | Winny | this is something else |
| 21:04.20 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18768 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/WorldWeapons.cxx: set the shot type for world weapons so they don't just look like NULL shots. |
| 21:04.32 | JeffM | ok so you get THAT one |
| 21:04.37 | JeffM | not the 3 infront of it |
| 21:04.43 | *** part/#bzflag Ratfink (n=clay@nc-67-76-227-5.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:04.44 | JeffM | unhugs CIA-42 |
| 21:04.48 | Winny | lol |
| 21:05.03 | JeffM | world weaps should be working right |
| 21:06.28 | Winny | odd - FTP works |
| 21:06.29 | Winny | humm |
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| 21:20.15 | JeffM | yay, back down to one page of bugs on SF :) |
| 21:20.28 | brlcad | woot |
| 21:20.45 | JeffM | there are a bunch of OSX bugs that someone should look at |
| 21:22.01 | JeffM | works on fixing doublejump |
| 21:24.52 | Winny | like the macbook + 10.5.5 issue |
| 21:32.56 | JeffM | I'm going to add a BZDB var, _rejumpTime |
| 21:32.56 | JeffM | set to 0.01 seconds |
| 21:32.56 | JeffM | basicly you won't be able to rejump untill that time after you land |
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| 22:07.27 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18769 10/trunk/bzflag/ (8 files in 4 dirs): |
| 22:07.27 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: fix the input system to not do double jumps (set jumpPressed to false when we copy it's state to wantJump ) |
| 22:07.27 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: add _rejumpTime to allow servers to set a min time between jumps (defaults to 0.01). |
| 22:07.27 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: add utilities to check if a player is on a jumpable surface (onSolidSurface) and if they have wings (hasWings) to make code more readable. |
| 22:08.05 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18770 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: Fixed jumping bugs. |
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| 22:34.28 | CIA-42 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18771 10/trunk/bzflag/src/obstacle/MeshFace.cxx: loosen up the tolerance used to see if a face is drivable, crappy modelers can't seem to get it that accurate. |
| 22:41.02 | L4m3r | yay |
| 22:42.07 | JeffM | 0.00001 is prety tight :) |
| 22:43.16 | jftsang | I remember a problem in 2.0 where tanks cannot drive from a normal surface onto a mesh that is at the same level |
| 22:43.25 | jftsang | is that fixed in 2.99? |
| 22:44.15 | JeffM | that is part of what I am looking into |
| 22:45.22 | JeffM | I'm trying to fix bugs that I know are release critical |
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| 22:49.33 | TD-Linux | does that mean... release imminent? |
| 22:49.46 | JeffM | it was suposed to be a while ago |
| 22:49.48 | JeffM | but isn't |
| 22:49.55 | JeffM | I'm skirting the BIG issue |
| 22:50.01 | JeffM | cus that will take some time to work on |
| 22:50.07 | JeffM | the network sync issues |
| 22:50.34 | TD-Linux | that reminds me, I wanted to ask this: |
| 22:50.44 | TD-Linux | bzflag estimates 2x the lag of most other games |
| 22:50.54 | TD-Linux | is that because it measures round-trip? |
| 22:51.04 | TD-Linux | s/measures/displays |
| 22:51.16 | JeffM | I'm not sure what we check |
| 22:51.20 | TD-Linux | also, for the lag compensation, does it assume 1-way lag is half round trip? |
| 22:51.21 | JeffM | the lag code is "wierd" |
| 22:51.29 | JeffM | lag comp dosn't use the same system as the displayed lag |
| 22:51.41 | JeffM | it uses a synced clock that assumes syncrounus lag |
| 22:51.45 | JeffM | and it's own messages |
| 22:52.00 | TD-Linux | how do you get the clock in sync at the start? |
| 22:52.10 | JeffM | MsgWhatTimeIsit |
| 22:52.23 | TD-Linux | but that would return a lagged time |
| 22:52.29 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:52.34 | JeffM | so it sends more then one ;) |
| 22:52.45 | TD-Linux | that still makes it lagged |
| 22:52.53 | TD-Linux | unless it uses it to measure lag and compensate there? |
| 22:52.54 | JeffM | it knows what time it was when it sent it out |
| 22:53.00 | JeffM | and what time it was when it gets it back |
| 22:53.11 | JeffM | divide/2 = the lag to the server |
| 22:53.28 | JeffM | it makes the asumption that the local clock is correct |
| 22:53.54 | JeffM | so then it comps the time back by the 1/2lag and gets an offset from the local clock to the server clock |
| 22:54.05 | JeffM | then it can put timestamps in what it feels the "server clock" is |
| 22:54.43 | JeffM | then assuming that the clocks on both systems run at the same speed, we are cool |
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| 22:58.00 | spldart | Yay! gsoc 2k8 shirt showed up :) |
| 23:02.39 | TD-Linux | okay, so it does use round trip / 2 |
| 23:03.09 | TD-Linux | maybe it should check time every 5 minutes or so? |
| 23:03.25 | JeffM | it does |
| 23:03.37 | JeffM | more then that IIRC |
| 23:03.41 | TD-Linux | though I suppose most cpu timers are very accurate these days |
| 23:04.05 | JeffM | yeah if the clock is THAT outa whack then we have other problems ;) |
| 23:04.59 | TD-Linux | is this clock used for world weapons and such now? |
| 23:05.12 | JeffM | no, not yet |
| 23:05.22 | JeffM | once it's proven for updates then we'll use it for more stuff |
| 23:05.46 | JeffM | tho the shots get timestamped, so they will show up on the same place for everyone now |
| 23:06.13 | JeffM | but it's not like we say "Hey client, at 5:00 sharp fire a shockwave!" |
| 23:07.43 | JeffM | we should use it for dynacolors and stuff |
| 23:07.53 | JeffM | then those would be more accurate |
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| 23:47.01 | AAA_awright | Dynamic colors are generated using the system clock iirc |
| 23:47.18 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:47.30 | JeffM | they should be generated using the synced clock |
| 23:47.37 | JeffM | then it would be similar on all systems |
| 23:48.25 | brad | # |
| 23:48.32 | brad | oopsy |
| 23:48.52 | AAA_awright | And what is MsgGameTime for then in 2.0? |
| 23:52.04 | JeffM | countdowns IIRC |
| 23:52.08 | JeffM | or maybe the sky |
| 23:52.11 | JeffM | one of those 2 |
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