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| 00:35.37 | Constitution | JeffM2501: the "current" 2.0.10 mac binary is a 10.3-compatible unibin |
| 00:36.22 | Constitution | I couldn't get it to build on my own machine, though... had to physically build it on a 10.3 to get that part working |
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| 01:03.26 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, yeah but it's kinda a hack IIRC |
| 01:03.34 | JeffM2501 | it has both bins in it |
| 01:03.47 | Constitution | that exactly what a unibin is |
| 01:03.58 | JeffM2501 | brlcad said a real one is different |
| 01:04.10 | JeffM2501 | but maybe I am misunderstanding |
| 01:04.16 | JeffM2501 | I was drunk at the time |
| 01:06.57 | Constitution | I think the end result is the same regardless of the process by which you arrive at it (building the two binaries together via multiple -arch flags to g++ or building them separately and combining them later)... but maybe brlcad knows something I don't :) |
| 01:07.05 | JeffM2501 | probably |
| 01:07.17 | JeffM2501 | perhaps the tools he had would not do it the way he wanted under 10.4 |
| 01:07.22 | JeffM2501 | and make it still 10.3 compatable |
| 01:07.33 | JeffM2501 | I am NOT concerned about supporting 10.3 |
| 01:07.45 | JeffM2501 | going one old is fine, going 2 old.... |
| 01:08.08 | JeffM2501 | make thos suckers build it themsevles, of if we have to do a 10.3 only build |
| 01:08.16 | JBdiGriz | 10.3.9 compatible. I believe they added some support for fat binaries at the end. |
| 01:08.24 | Constitution | right |
| 01:08.26 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
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| 01:08.56 | Constitution | and 10.3 was PPC only |
| 01:12.04 | Constitution | I don't think we had an Intel-compatible release until 2.0.10 |
| 01:13.14 | JeffM2501 | mmmmmmm 2.8 gig quad core :) |
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| 01:39.22 | JBdiGriz | dual quad core :) |
| 01:42.09 | JeffM2501 | I'm lucky to get the quad here, I had a 1.8 gig core 2 |
| 01:42.12 | JeffM2501 | it stucked |
| 01:42.30 | JBdiGriz | And add a GPU which can handle vector computation ;) |
| 01:45.22 | JeffM2501 | I got a 9600 this time |
| 01:45.32 | JBdiGriz | That will do it. |
| 01:45.33 | JeffM2501 | I was going to get a 4850 but it didn't work well |
| 01:46.12 | spldart | Hehe.. JB said what I was thinking.. And currently pricing... modern multi core duallies |
| 01:47.34 | JeffM2501 | I will also be vistatastic again |
| 01:51.16 | JBdiGriz | Will you be optimizing your code to use all of those cores? |
| 01:51.38 | JeffM2501 | we have been adding threading support for large 3d operations |
| 01:51.44 | JeffM2501 | mostly I'll use it for our distributed build |
| 01:52.02 | JBdiGriz | Are you using DirectX for your 3d ops? |
| 01:52.08 | JeffM2501 | no no |
| 01:52.13 | JeffM2501 | 3d toolpath generation |
| 01:52.26 | JeffM2501 | not drawing |
| 01:52.44 | JBdiGriz | I'm not talking about drawing. |
| 01:52.56 | JeffM2501 | we don't have access to the code that does it, 3rd party lib |
| 01:53.11 | JeffM2501 | we just have it firing off async threads to do various operations |
| 01:53.27 | JeffM2501 | but I highly doubt it's using directX |
| 01:53.39 | JBdiGriz | So no chance of a SIMD type solution. |
| 01:53.46 | JeffM2501 | not for it no |
| 01:53.55 | JeffM2501 | each step needs the results of the past parts |
| 01:54.02 | JeffM2501 | material removal stuff |
| 01:54.13 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't paralellise that well |
| 01:54.22 | JeffM2501 | so what we do is just more then one job at a time |
| 01:54.39 | JeffM2501 | or it may break up cutting and gouge checking |
| 01:54.40 | JeffM2501 | not sure |
| 01:54.44 | JeffM2501 | that part is what I work on |
| 01:54.53 | JeffM2501 | I turn what they make into ugly ugly text |
| 01:55.08 | JBdiGriz | Does anyone read the text? |
| 01:55.20 | JeffM2501 | everyone reads it |
| 01:55.23 | JeffM2501 | it's the final output |
| 01:55.27 | JeffM2501 | it goes into the CNC machine |
| 01:55.45 | JBdiGriz | I thought the final output was the model. |
| 01:55.51 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 01:55.54 | JeffM2501 | we are not a CAD system |
| 01:55.57 | JeffM2501 | we are CAM system |
| 01:56.04 | JeffM2501 | we take the models and make them into real things |
| 01:56.22 | JeffM2501 | run tools over them to cut them out of blocks of metal, etc... |
| 01:56.36 | JeffM2501 | so our final output is a program for a robot mill or lathe to cut it |
| 01:57.10 | JBdiGriz | Why would people need to read the program if things are working? It should be treated like machine language. |
| 01:57.23 | JeffM2501 | in a perfect world it woudl be |
| 01:57.32 | JeffM2501 | CNC machines are far from perfect ;) |
| 01:57.37 | JBdiGriz | aims for perfection. :D |
| 01:58.02 | JeffM2501 | it's not like the file is read top to bottom by a person |
| 01:58.10 | JeffM2501 | but it is looked at sometimes |
| 01:58.32 | JeffM2501 | every CNC machine/controll/shop combo is different |
| 01:58.33 | JBdiGriz | We look at machine language occasionally as well, but I try not to make a habit of it. |
| 01:58.49 | JeffM2501 | well for you it's pretty consistent on what it runs on |
| 01:59.09 | JeffM2501 | you have a high likelyhood of the same code running the same way on 2 different intel CPUs |
| 01:59.15 | JeffM2501 | because they are made to be compatable |
| 01:59.17 | JBdiGriz | Yes, but it runs on about 60 of them at once. |
| 01:59.40 | JeffM2501 | 2 different fanuc machines, of the same controll may not run the same program the same way due to local settings |
| 01:59.41 | JBdiGriz | Intel CPUs? That's not what our code is running on. |
| 01:59.50 | JeffM2501 | I'm using an example ;) |
| 02:00.13 | JeffM2501 | your machine language is defined to be compatable between the chips it supports |
| 02:00.19 | JeffM2501 | G-Code for CNC is not |
| 02:00.24 | JeffM2501 | everyone does it there own way |
| 02:00.45 | JeffM2501 | M100 on one machine may turn on a coolant, on another it may open a door. |
| 02:01.25 | JeffM2501 | one may do splines, another may no, and need arc fits, while a third segements, etc.. |
| 02:01.47 | JeffM2501 | some of it is even determined by what options have been purchased and are "enabled" on the machine |
| 02:02.01 | JBdiGriz | That's why we use compilers to define the differences between the machines, and provide somewhat of a higher level language to the programmer. |
| 02:02.14 | JeffM2501 | our software is that high level language |
| 02:02.29 | JeffM2501 | you can take one program from our stuff, and dump out programs for multiple machines |
| 02:02.30 | JBdiGriz | It sounds like your software is the compiler |
| 02:02.36 | JeffM2501 | our post engine is |
| 02:02.47 | JeffM2501 | it takes our generic stuff and makes it specific for the final machine |
| 02:02.49 | JeffM2501 | that's what I do |
| 02:02.58 | JeffM2501 | the output for that machine is very ugly text :) |
| 02:03.20 | JeffM2501 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7d177be |
| 02:03.38 | JBdiGriz | Get DTRemenak|RDP to write a debugger for you. ;) |
| 02:03.46 | JeffM2501 | I did write a debuger |
| 02:03.59 | JeffM2501 | the post debuger :) |
| 02:04.30 | JeffM2501 | I maintain the langauge for posts and the back end code that allows them to support all the wacky variants in the machines |
| 02:04.35 | spldart | hrm. I have 2.0.10 on a machine that I just through on my new monitor. It's also now set to run 1400x1050. When I run at 32 x color it does mediocre but playable but when I slow to 16x color it becomes terrible laggy. I thought maybe if I reduce my desktop to 16x setting that the 16 x setting would work in bzflag but still incredible lag. meh |
| 02:05.01 | spldart | wrong wording s/slow/reduce |
| 02:05.03 | JeffM2501 | spldart, many modern cards are optimised for 32bit |
| 02:05.07 | spldart | Ah |
| 02:05.14 | spldart | okidoki |
| 02:05.32 | JeffM2501 | 32 bit fits the pading better, as you get 3 bytes for the color, and one for the stencil |
| 02:05.54 | JeffM2501 | also 16 looks like ass |
| 02:05.58 | spldart | hehe |
| 02:06.22 | spldart | Was trying to get my fps up a tad. But it isn't necessary to play. An old 5200 FX card. |
| 02:07.00 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, you should talk to the people that make MachineWorks, they probably could use your GPU stuff |
| 02:07.37 | JeffM2501 | ModuleWorks too, as they do a lot of material removal calcs |
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| 02:09.47 | Cruel_dog | Anybody here has an idea why I only get 60 FPS on BZ, no matter what quality is set, no matter if all best graphics, or none at all, and that I get like 300+ FPS in big games such as counter strike, and battlefield? |
| 02:10.56 | blast007 | vsync |
| 02:11.11 | Cruel_dog | What is that? |
| 02:11.28 | blast007 | you don't want 300fps in bz |
| 02:11.39 | Cruel_dog | why not? |
| 02:11.39 | blast007 | it screws up |
| 02:11.42 | Cruel_dog | ah |
| 02:11.49 | Cruel_dog | but most people have like 150 +... |
| 02:12.19 | blast007 | then they will get kicked for moving too fast, at some point |
| 02:12.20 | JeffM2501 | they never see over 85ish of em |
| 02:12.27 | JeffM2501 | the display can't update that fast |
| 02:12.42 | Cruel_dog | Yeah that's right.. Still, is there a way I can get more than 60 FPS? |
| 02:12.54 | JeffM2501 | turn off vsync |
| 02:12.57 | blast007 | turn off vertical sync |
| 02:13.12 | Cruel_dog | where is that option situated? |
| 02:13.18 | JeffM2501 | in your driver |
| 02:13.22 | JeffM2501 | it's not part of BZ |
| 02:13.29 | JeffM2501 | what OS are you on? |
| 02:13.33 | TD-Linux | don't bother with it though |
| 02:13.37 | TD-Linux | vsync prevents nasty tearing |
| 02:13.43 | Cruel_dog | Windows |
| 02:13.43 | blast007 | then use the energy saver in bz and /localset fpsLimit to something sane |
| 02:13.47 | JeffM2501 | yeah it'll look crap probably |
| 02:13.48 | TD-Linux | so only turn it off if you really really want to benchmark bzflag or something |
| 02:13.56 | blast007 | Cruel_dog: your driver.. |
| 02:14.19 | Cruel_dog | what fpslimit you recommand me to set? |
| 02:14.30 | TD-Linux | umm |
| 02:14.32 | blast007 | 60 |
| 02:14.36 | Cruel_dog | ... |
| 02:14.37 | blast007 | ducks |
| 02:14.42 | TD-Linux | I highly recommend using vsync instead of fpslimit |
| 02:14.48 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:15.00 | TD-Linux | which you already are |
| 02:15.04 | TD-Linux | so be happy |
| 02:15.07 | blast007 | 60 is a fine fps |
| 02:15.39 | Think_Differentl | seeing as most monitors refresh at 60Hz, 60 should probably be best |
| 02:16.09 | TD-Linux | vsync will be at exactly your monitor refresh rate whatever it is, and kill tearing |
| 02:16.13 | TD-Linux | fpslimit won't stop tearing |
| 02:16.20 | Cruel_dog | aah its 60 hertz |
| 02:16.29 | TD-Linux | just use vsync and then it doesn't matter :> |
| 02:16.40 | Cruel_dog | i dont see any vsync option on my driver. |
| 02:16.46 | TD-Linux | well it seems to be on already |
| 02:16.53 | TD-Linux | and there really should be a vsync option |
| 02:16.55 | TD-Linux | what driver? |
| 02:17.46 | AHA | Cruel_dog, what card do you have? |
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| 02:19.59 | Cruel_dog_ | found the vsync option |
| 02:21.39 | spldart | I turned of Vsync once so I could get from 60 fps and into the 120's 130's.. but I got lockups |
| 02:21.49 | Cruel_dog_ | yeah i was in 150 |
| 02:22.06 | Cruel_dog_ | and I see tearing so ill actiave it back |
| 02:22.09 | Cruel_dog_ | thanks for telling me :) |
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| 04:03.47 | JeffM | hmmm.... wildcard mailbans don't seem to be working on the fourms. |
| 04:06.25 | temp_dist | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:08.13 | JeffM | blast007 / brlcad is there a way to make all mail to one domain bounce? |
| 04:13.57 | BulletCatcher | temp_dist: I fixed that duplicate in trunk, but not in branch. |
| 04:14.11 | temp_dist | mmk |
| 04:33.17 | blast007 | JeffM: no idea... I suck at mail servers ;) I just switched mine to google apps |
| 04:34.19 | JeffM | I mean like the DNS lookup on .bz so that it never gets the right IP |
| 04:34.27 | JeffM | and can never send out |
| 04:40.20 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 04:48.38 | blast007 | oh yeah, question for you JeffM, regarding the plugin API version |
| 04:48.52 | JeffM | k |
| 04:49.26 | blast007 | in trunk code, if a plugin has a new API version than the bzfs, it won't load it |
| 04:49.31 | blast007 | but for linux, it's the other way around |
| 04:49.43 | blast007 | is that right? |
| 04:49.45 | JeffM | you mean for branch? |
| 04:49.51 | JeffM | not "linux" |
| 04:50.06 | JeffM | in trunk the meaning of the API version changed |
| 04:50.07 | blast007 | sorry, the first one was supposed to be "trunk code, for windows" |
| 04:50.15 | JeffM | it's now the minimum API version |
| 04:50.42 | JeffM | so if the plugin is newer then the plugin is assumed to use an interface that bzfs does not have |
| 04:50.44 | JeffM | so it will not load |
| 04:51.00 | JeffM | like if it's a V10 plugin that uses Version 2 of the kill message event data |
| 04:51.25 | JeffM | and is loaded by a V5 bzfs that only has the V1 version of the event data class, we would not load the plugin |
| 04:52.02 | JeffM | since the classes and stuff in bzfs are now versioned, and derived classes they can always be backwards compatable |
| 04:52.13 | JeffM | so it' ok to load old plugins now |
| 04:52.18 | JeffM | or at least that is the general plan :) |
| 04:52.51 | blast007 | should functions also be versioned? |
| 04:52.59 | JeffM | can't |
| 04:53.04 | JeffM | well not easaly |
| 04:53.08 | JeffM | basicly the name is the version |
| 04:53.19 | JeffM | if we change the calling convention, we rename it |
| 04:53.24 | JeffM | or keep the old one and do an overide |
| 04:53.33 | JeffM | so the old function API should always be there |
| 04:53.43 | JeffM | basicly never remove from the functions and we are ok |
| 04:55.34 | blast007 | so is this logic reversed then? |
| 04:55.36 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:55.36 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:55.44 | JeffM | yeah |
| 04:55.48 | JeffM | that needs to be reversed |
| 04:55.50 | blast007 | k |
| 04:56.11 | JeffM | the old method kinda sucked, you could not take plugins forward |
| 04:58.45 | Flash | the reason it came up was I wanted to know if the API data structures were versionnned |
| 04:58.50 | blast007 | still can't, necessarily |
| 04:59.33 | Flash | I'm trying to work out the protocol change to pass the rank with the score |
| 04:59.33 | Flash | and I see that there is an API structure for score |
| 04:59.33 | blast007 | well, hmm... we can keep a function that returns one data type, and make another function with the same name that return another type, right? |
| 04:59.44 | blast007 | trying to remember if I'm getting my languages messed up here ;) |
| 04:59.57 | Flash | it I change the structure, what happens to versions where? |
| 05:03.53 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r18505 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx: Fix a bit of logic for checking the plugin API version on non-Windows builds. |
| 05:05.03 | BulletCatcher | Flash: what is the structure you are referring to? |
| 05:08.51 | BulletCatcher | If it is non-public enough, adding to it will not affect the methods by which it is accessed. You would just need to provide additional methods to expose the new data elements. |
| 05:10.31 | BulletCatcher | (At least I think that is what JeffM meant by "the name is the version".) |
| 05:11.11 | Flash | bz_ScoreRecord |
| 05:11.21 | Flash | it is included in bz_PlayerInfoUpdateRecord |
| 05:12.21 | JeffM | for 3.0, no third party plugins have been made so we can just chagne it |
| 05:12.33 | JeffM | but it shouuld be a class |
| 05:12.48 | JeffM | change it to bz_baseScoreReccord with a version |
| 05:12.54 | JeffM | then make the current be a V1 version |
| 05:13.14 | JeffM | then if we change it later, we derive off a new V2 version that adds whatever we add |
| 05:13.17 | JeffM | just like the events |
| 05:13.23 | Flash | ok |
| 05:13.37 | JeffM | then old plugins just get the V1 version and the data they are used to, etc.. |
| 05:13.38 | Flash | I think I can make that change before I get the protocol change to work |
| 05:13.52 | JeffM | it should not be a hard proto change |
| 05:13.55 | JeffM | msgScoreUpdate |
| 05:14.05 | JeffM | then just have the client display those |
| 05:14.08 | Flash | I know, I thought I had it, but my testing revealed otherwise |
| 05:14.12 | JeffM | and then have the server send out all scores |
| 05:14.38 | Flash | so I backed it all out and I'm moving as slowly and deterministically as I can |
| 05:15.06 | JeffM | well good luck on it |
| 05:15.07 | JeffM | sleeps |
| 05:15.16 | Flash | ~bed JeffM |
| 05:15.16 | ibot | ACTION tucks JeffM into a warm bed. |
| 05:16.44 | Constitution | lol |
| 05:16.56 | Flash | wait, can we pass class instances to the api? |
| 05:17.08 | Constitution | ~14400000/1000/60/60 |
| 05:17.08 | ibot | 4 |
| 05:17.10 | Flash | doesn't know a lot about runtime DLLs |
| 05:18.34 | BulletCatcher | I'm not sure what you mean by "to the API". |
| 05:18.51 | Flash | a plugin is a bit of coded loaded from a dynamic object |
| 05:19.11 | Flash | can an interface to that code include an object reference whose code is in the server? |
| 05:19.36 | Flash | if so, then the shared object links with the unresolved external? |
| 05:20.02 | Flash | looks like there is precedent for it, so I won't worry too much |
| 05:20.25 | BulletCatcher | It ought to be possible. |
| 05:20.51 | BulletCatcher | In C you would just pass a pointer around. |
| 05:21.15 | Flash | right, but C isn't strongly typed, so you don't have to know anything about the pointer |
| 05:30.13 | Flash | anyone know what the event update() method is supposed to do? |
| 05:30.34 | Flash | the base class does nothing, and all the derived classes I've seen call the base class (wasted code) |
| 05:31.02 | Flash | (since the virtual method of the base class is available to the derived class without explicitly writing the delegator) |
| 05:39.07 | BulletCatcher | I see the same nothing you see for all of those update() methods. |
| 05:40.00 | BulletCatcher | Dunno what it might have been intended for. |
| 05:42.54 | BulletCatcher | It looks like it is called once in APIPlayerFromRecord() in bzfsAPI.cxx |
| 07:03.24 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r18506 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx: grammar fix |
| 07:44.53 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: 03jwmelto * r18507 10/trunk/bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h: |
| 07:44.53 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: Use ctor initializer lists like God and Bjarne intended. |
| 07:44.53 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: Remove pointless virtual functions |
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| 13:22.36 | CIA-49 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r18508 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.h: Remove unused macros that supported old -a command line option. |
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| 14:33.33 | Ratfink | Is it possible to bind the "/" key to give a chat prompt with a slash already typed? |
| 14:35.26 | blast007 | if you mod the code, sure |
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| 16:57.49 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.12 is the latest linux release, 2.0.10 for others || GSoC 2008, mentor blog at http://tanks4code.blogspot.com || GSOC participants: Time is up.. Thank you all for your hard work. |
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| 19:51.42 | JeffM | can totaly hear donny_baker's music coming thru IRC! |
| 19:55.03 | donny_baker | hehe.. hope you like the Zepplin |
| 19:55.12 | donny_baker | is it staticy? |
| 19:55.41 | JeffM | sounds like madona to me |
| 19:55.49 | JeffM | maybe I'm picking up winn's |
| 19:56.56 | Winny | How'd you know? >_< |
| 19:57.08 | Winny | Seriously.. It's what I have on |
| 19:57.25 | CBG | Obvious. |
| 19:57.47 | JeffM | claraudiance |
| 19:59.17 | Winny | well, it's DSoTM now |
| 19:59.38 | Winny | changed right when I noticed the message :) |
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| 20:26.28 | boombatower | JeffM, per your last comment on new website thread...what are the plans for backend stuff |
| 20:27.29 | JeffM | step 1 is to get the group manager working |
| 20:27.45 | JeffM | then upgrade the boards to phpbb3 |
| 20:28.09 | Winny | what about LDAP? |
| 20:28.11 | JeffM | then get the list server and bzbb using the group manager for login |
| 20:28.17 | JeffM | Winny, that's part of the plan |
| 20:28.35 | JeffM | then when everything is using group manager for login, move group manager to ldap |
| 20:28.41 | Winny | ah |
| 20:28.45 | JeffM | then it can all work togheter |
| 20:29.05 | JeffM | at that point THEN we can decide what features we want for the main website, and look at drupal, etc |
| 20:29.30 | boombatower | alright...so what is the state of step 1, and where can I get started if I wantted to help |
| 20:29.39 | JeffM | upgrading the main site now would be kinda pointless bevause there is nothing we'd do wiht it, and it'd just be yet another thing to integrate into the login system |
| 20:29.46 | JeffM | it is subversion |
| 20:29.48 | Winny | Constitution was working on the group manager I believe |
| 20:29.52 | JeffM | and it has a design doc on the wiki |
| 20:29.57 | JeffM | it needs to be finished. |
| 20:30.08 | boombatower | link? |
| 20:30.11 | JeffM | group management is our bigest problem |
| 20:30.47 | JeffM | the wiki is at http://my.bzflag.org/w/ |
| 20:31.01 | JeffM | the group manager is in the web project in SVN IIRC |
| 20:32.10 | boombatower | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Services_Proposal ? |
| 20:32.23 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Group_Management_System |
| 20:32.31 | boombatower | thx |
| 20:32.55 | JeffM | our core problem is that all authentication goes thru phpbb right now |
| 20:33.16 | JeffM | we need to get the groups out of phpbb |
| 20:33.29 | boombatower | separate db and interface? |
| 20:33.32 | boombatower | reads doc |
| 20:33.43 | JeffM | yes |
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| 20:36.47 | JeffM | once we have the groups out of phpbb, then we make all services use the group manager for logins ( even if group manager still uses phpbb as a database ) |
| 20:36.49 | boombatower | if this needs a db and web interface what tools can I use...my favored approach would be to use Drupal or something that gives me a prebuilt framework...plus would fit into later work on integrating everyitng |
| 20:37.33 | boombatower | does some code already exist? (svn...suppose I should download it) |
| 20:38.26 | JeffM | much code exists |
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| 20:38.49 | JeffM | we don't want to move our problems from one third party backend to another thid party backend |
| 20:38.57 | JeffM | the group manager needs to be it's own thing |
| 20:39.01 | JeffM | since it has an IN GAME effect |
| 20:39.05 | boombatower | k |
| 20:39.17 | JeffM | sure if drupal can be made to hook into it somehow, that's great |
| 20:39.33 | JeffM | we just don't want to get into another situation like we have with phpbb |
| 20:39.36 | boombatower | I'm just refering to the fact I would have form creation, validation tools and such for interface |
| 20:39.40 | boombatower | right |
| 20:40.13 | JeffM | I would think drupal would be overkill for a custom interface |
| 20:40.19 | JeffM | as I don't think it can do exactly what we want |
| 20:40.26 | JeffM | we don't need the rest of drupal right now |
| 20:40.34 | boombatower | I would write custom code...alright |
| 20:40.42 | boombatower | works on downloading code |
| 20:40.57 | JeffM | but really I don't care much about the interface, as in coding. mostly in how it works |
| 20:41.04 | JeffM | and as long as it's not a pig on the server |
| 20:41.53 | boombatower | you have quick link to SVN info? |
| 20:42.04 | JeffM | the wiki has a svn page |
| 20:42.54 | JBdiGriz | ~svn |
| 20:42.55 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 20:43.14 | me1 | ~bzsvn |
| 20:43.14 | ibot | i heard bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 20:43.35 | JeffM | if he's on the wiki already a simple search should have worked |
| 20:43.55 | boombatower | yea that is what I did |
| 20:44.17 | boombatower | having trouble with subclipse...guess I'll resort to command line |
| 20:44.35 | JeffM | what OS do you use? |
| 20:44.42 | boombatower | SUSE 11.0 linux |
| 20:45.00 | JeffM | yeah command line is probably simplest then |
| 20:46.33 | boombatower | not sure why but the new version of subclipse seems to be broken...older version used to work |
| 20:46.47 | boombatower | watches code download |
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| 20:47.35 | JeffM | if you want to work on the group manager, I think the primary goals would be just the functionality first |
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| 20:48.00 | JeffM | getting the groups moved over, a basic interface for manipulating them, then the API to the list server for authenticating user in them, etc.. |
| 20:48.02 | boombatower | so I ran svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag |
| 20:48.04 | boombatower | that correct? |
| 20:48.14 | JeffM | once that basicly works, then we can look at making it prety |
| 20:48.20 | boombatower | k |
| 20:48.20 | JeffM | well... that's the soruce code for bzflag |
| 20:48.26 | JeffM | that has nothing to do with the web projects |
| 20:48.28 | boombatower | yea so what module am I looking for |
| 20:48.32 | JeffM | web |
| 20:48.35 | JeffM | not bzflag |
| 20:48.41 | boombatower | heh |
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| 20:49.22 | boombatower | bzgrpmgr? |
| 20:49.25 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:50.11 | boombatower | I'll start looking at the code...is there anyone else actively working on it I should be in touch with? |
| 20:50.16 | JeffM | no |
| 20:50.29 | JeffM | you can always talk about it here with all of us tho |
| 20:50.31 | boombatower | and since I'm new to bzflag development where should I post patches/issues or get commit access...w/e |
| 20:50.50 | JeffM | blast007, and donny_baker have done a lot of work in general on our web based services |
| 20:50.56 | JeffM | brlcad owns the server. |
| 20:51.05 | JeffM | start with patches, on sourceforge |
| 20:51.12 | JeffM | but best is to work interactivly here. |
| 20:51.25 | JeffM | we arn't big fans of the "giant code dump" |
| 20:51.29 | boombatower | right |
| 20:52.41 | boombatower | there a section in the tracker that already has an issue or where I should put my patches? |
| 20:52.59 | JeffM | SF has a patch tracker |
| 20:53.03 | boombatower | right |
| 20:53.04 | boombatower | ok |
| 20:54.03 | JeffM | one of our summer of code projects was starting an LDAP based authentication system for the bzflag client and server, eventualy we need to move everything over to that system |
| 20:54.06 | JeffM | including our web services |
| 20:56.13 | Wyk3d | btw i was planning to have a crack at groups myself next week .. that's probably the only thing that's keeping from providing the same functionality as the list server |
| 20:57.42 | Wyk3d | well that, some performance issues and more testing |
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| 20:59.01 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:59.17 | JeffM | no mater what we need an inerface for it |
| 20:59.37 | JeffM | he backend of the group manager should be flexable enough to hook into any group system |
| 21:00.05 | Wyk3d | does that need to be a separate application though ? |
| 21:00.17 | Wyk3d | wouldn't it be better to just have the authd do everything related to it |
| 21:00.29 | JeffM | you mean provide the web pages to manage it? |
| 21:00.39 | JeffM | groups are managed externaly |
| 21:00.44 | Wyk3d | well no, except that :) |
| 21:00.50 | JeffM | I don't care if authd HOLDS the groups |
| 21:00.55 | JeffM | that's fine |
| 21:01.02 | JeffM | it just needs an interface to some web app to manage them |
| 21:01.13 | Wyk3d | some curling i presume |
| 21:01.33 | JeffM | there could be many ways to do that interface |
| 21:01.47 | boombatower | so what does the existing code do? |
| 21:01.53 | JeffM | if authd uses a database, they could just share it, or sockets, or http, etc.. |
| 21:02.03 | JeffM | the existing groups are in phpbb |
| 21:02.08 | boombatower | interface is totaly separate |
| 21:02.15 | JeffM | and the list server reads them right out of the phpbb table |
| 21:02.18 | JeffM | there is NO inteface |
| 21:02.30 | boombatower | but it is intended to be separate later? |
| 21:02.30 | JeffM | phpbb is our group interface |
| 21:02.30 | JeffM | and it sucks |
| 21:02.39 | Wyk3d | for performance reasons it would unwise to have them share a database |
| 21:03.06 | JeffM | boombatower, we want it to be yes |
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| 21:03.53 | JeffM | Wyk3d, well comunication iself dosn't matter |
| 21:03.57 | JeffM | as long as it can be done |
| 21:04.14 | JeffM | there has to be some way to create and manage groups |
| 21:04.24 | boombatower | sorry for asking all the questions, just trying to wrap my head around what needs to be done,...so what do I need to work on...the interface or finishing something bzgrpmgr |
| 21:04.40 | Wyk3d | from the authd's perspective, it's easier to use the existing socket code, from the web app's perspective it would be easier to use http :) |
| 21:04.43 | JeffM | boombatower, both tasks are the same |
| 21:04.48 | boombatower | ah |
| 21:04.51 | JeffM | the group manager does NOT do anything |
| 21:05.18 | JeffM | Wyk3d, maybe we write an apache module that does the sockets stuff for the php |
| 21:05.46 | boombatower | my only concern is that all the web services are fragmented and all have db code etc. It would seem that it would be preferable to have them use a standard system/set of code |
| 21:07.51 | boombatower | anyway I can get test data to see what this thing does |
| 21:09.04 | JeffM | well we do want them to all use some common modules |
| 21:09.51 | JeffM | for login and user management |
| 21:09.51 | JeffM | but there is no reason to to make them all use one monster system |
| 21:10.24 | boombatower | hmm |
| 21:10.34 | boombatower | just seems like a lot of duplicate code |
| 21:10.51 | boombatower | so can I get some data? anyone have a set of test data...or the exported group data |
| 21:10.59 | boombatower | as I don't have access to the phpbb db |
| 21:11.01 | JeffM | no |
| 21:11.26 | JeffM | it ain't being given out |
| 21:11.51 | boombatower | hmm |
| 21:11.58 | JeffM | I'm not sure what code you think it's sharing? sql queries? |
| 21:12.10 | JeffM | the fourms won't be doing the same thing as the group manager for instance |
| 21:12.16 | JeffM | they have completely different feature sets |
| 21:12.35 | JeffM | for the common tasks such as users and auth, yes, have them use one common component |
| 21:12.39 | boombatower | right...I just saying the services under web each to login, db layers...function..utilities and they all have separate code for it |
| 21:12.43 | JeffM | but for the other stuff, there is no point |
| 21:12.51 | JeffM | login we want them to share |
| 21:12.53 | JeffM | that's been said |
| 21:13.04 | JeffM | we don't want them all to use one database |
| 21:13.09 | JeffM | that'd just be silly |
| 21:13.29 | boombatower | talking about db code..not database |
| 21:14.39 | boombatower | each one has a different db layer... |
| 21:14.46 | boombatower | hmm |
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| 21:16.16 | boombatower | hmm I'm not seeing how groups_memeberships relates to a standard user |
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| 21:16.40 | boombatower | I just need some test data...which I guess I have to create |
| 21:25.16 | boombatower | ok from looking at the code all the web services use different template systems (some use none) different db layers different everything. If the plan is to make them use a central login it would be nice if they at least functioned similarly (as you have said same login module) I thinking from a standardization viewpoint and not reinventing the wheel that all the web interfaces could be implemented in a standard system like Drupal and |
| 21:25.16 | boombatower | then files called by bzflag to perform in-game operations could be a separate file that only loads necessary files (like database include - which would be standard) and queries necessary data, which would keep serverload to minimum |
| 21:25.57 | boombatower | would provide one central system for overal management/login (which could be written using w/e custom protocal) |
| 21:26.11 | boombatower | easier to theme who system...move from one part to another easily |
| 21:26.17 | boombatower | consistent menues |
| 21:26.40 | boombatower | I relize I'm new and this is some massive changes, but I'd be willing to give it a shot if people were interested |
| 21:28.05 | boombatower | otherwise it seems like a lot of fragmented systems and duplicate code to manage |
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| 21:57.48 | boombatower | I created a proposal in the forum thread |
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| 23:30.17 | lol_udied_080 | Hey can someone please help with the physics? |
| 23:31.45 | Winny | read the wiki |
| 23:31.50 | spldart | heh |
| 23:32.10 | spldart | Or poke through a current map hosted as a tutorial. I learned alot that way |
| 23:32.18 | spldart | Just don't copy |
| 23:32.36 | spldart | Write your own specific stuff |
| 23:33.01 | lol_udied | sorry hold on Im on the phone |
| 23:33.40 | CBG | i'm holding on |
| 23:33.44 | lol_udied | ok back |
| 23:33.49 | CBG | but this is costing you per the minute dude |
| 23:33.54 | lol_udied | go look on the forums under Map releases and I pasted something |
| 23:33.57 | spldart | Charge him! |
| 23:33.58 | lol_udied | xD |
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| 23:34.14 | CBG | if you posted on the forum, why waste your money here? |
| 23:34.19 | lol_udied | lol |
| 23:35.03 | lol_udied | http://pastebin.com/f2b5b5604 |
| 23:39.58 | lol_udied | well? |
| 23:40.09 | lol_udied | Am i doing anything wrong in my .bzw file? |
| 23:40.09 | CBG | yeah, not too bad. |
| 23:40.14 | CBG | Can't complain at least. |
| 23:40.26 | CBG | and yourself, lol_udied? are you well? |
| 23:40.33 | lol_udied | .... |
| 23:40.42 | lol_udied | so how come the physics dont work? |
| 23:40.50 | Constitution | your indentation is messed up |
| 23:41.02 | CBG | oh? physics is broken? are you floating around the room? |
| 23:41.11 | Think_Differentl | you must obey physics |
| 23:41.17 | Think_Differentl | otherwise they won't work |
| 23:41.25 | lol_udied | Look I just only need some help then I'll leave |
| 23:42.13 | spldart | [80s_singsong] Promises promises [/80s_singsong] |
| 23:42.17 | spldart | :-p J/K |
| 23:42.28 | Think_Differentl | spldart, you forgot the crazy synth in the backround! |
| 23:42.33 | spldart | Right? |
| 23:42.35 | spldart | hehe |
| 23:42.59 | lol_udied | come on people. Just need a tiny bit of help |
| 23:43.09 | CBG | Does the map file load correctly? |
| 23:43.19 | CBG | No errors with -dddd? |
| 23:43.27 | lol_udied | blast is hosting |
| 23:43.38 | CBG | Test it yourself... |
| 23:43.41 | lol_udied | And i went on the map and doesnt do anything |
| 23:43.48 | lol_udied | neither the death physics |
| 23:44.41 | CBG | Well, the code looks correct at a glance, so I can't help more without more information. |
| 23:44.56 | lol_udied | ok |
| 23:45.11 | lol_udied | then I should talk to blast right? since he is hosting? |
| 23:45.14 | CBG | blast007 hosts it, you say? |
| 23:45.42 | CBG | If so, he will see that I just mentioned his name... |
| 23:47.33 | Constitution | lol_udied: uh, it does work |
| 23:47.53 | Constitution | on the lower block, you slide around... if you touch the block in the air, you die |
| 23:48.05 | me1 | heh |
| 23:48.11 | spldart | Is the BZBB pruned to exclude posts older than 2k5? |
| 23:48.15 | CBG | Constitution: right. I am suspecting some error elsewhere in the map that causes it to not load correctly. |
| 23:48.29 | spldart | I was looking for a LouMan post from quite a ways back. |
| 23:48.35 | Constitution | oh... sorry, I came in late |
| 23:48.55 | CBG | I forget if bzfs will always outright reject a map with errors or if it can sometime let it slide (heh) if it's just a couple minor errors. |
| 23:49.07 | CBG | No, it's useful information - I was only assuming until now. :) |
| 23:49.10 | spldart | It can let some stuff slide |
| 23:49.15 | lol_udied | Constitution: are you telling me that you went on my map and everything worked fine? |
| 23:49.18 | CBG | Thought so... |
| 23:49.21 | spldart | but don't know if it can let any phydrv stuff slide |
| 23:49.50 | Constitution | lol_udied: I'm telling you that I took the code you put in the pastebin, put it in a file, started a server with that map, and it worked |
| 23:50.02 | lol_udied | wierd |
| 23:50.08 | lol_udied | Im wondering why it doesnt work on my map |
| 23:50.08 | Constitution | what is the server? |
| 23:50.17 | lol_udied | Blast is hosting it. Go and search lol |
| 23:50.29 | Constitution | go and find the address and tell me lol |
| 23:50.30 | CBG | spldart: well, seems to me the phyrv stuff is not the problem, but it's more like an error you would get if you dropped the ; from the end of a line in C/C++/PHP... |
| 23:50.41 | spldart | ah |
| 23:50.56 | lol_udied | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.01 | lol_udied | thats the address |
| 23:51.05 | CBG | That's just my guess since the code pasted looked fine to me s now confirmed by Constitution. |
| 23:51.24 | spldart | it looked ok to me too. But it's been a long long while |
| 23:51.30 | spldart | since I did any physics stuff |
| 23:51.48 | spldart | My 'air hockey table' map iirc |
| 23:52.34 | CBG | Same here, years since I did any map making for bz, but it's stuck around in the shambles of a memory I have... |
| 23:53.01 | CBG | I kinda wish I could rm it to make room fo stuff that might actually help me pass exams and whatnot. :/ |
| 23:53.15 | spldart | LOL |
| 23:53.22 | spldart | rm -r ./* |
| 23:53.42 | spldart | err |
| 23:53.47 | CBG | Nah, I would need to grep for "bzflag" or "bzw" and rm the results. :P |
| 23:53.56 | spldart | rm -r ./bzflagmaps* |
| 23:54.04 | CBG | yeah ;) |
| 23:54.14 | spldart | s...tuff |
| 23:54.15 | spldart | hhe |
| 23:57.29 | lol_udied | Constitution heres the pastebin of my worldfile. the physics are ALLLL the way down |
| 23:57.31 | lol_udied | http://pastebin.com/f56655f7d |
| 23:57.45 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 23:58.03 | *** part/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 23:58.40 | CBG | Any chance the problem is with box named "BZBox_38_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy_Copy" ? ;) |
| 23:58.54 | Constitution | well the chandelier works |
| 23:58.54 | JeffM | people still use that app, WHY? |
| 23:59.03 | *** join/#bzflag bier|tp (n=bier@p54A56EE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:59.14 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@p54A56EE6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:59.27 | Constitution | lol_udied: I think you have overlapping boxes |
| 23:59.39 | Constitution | I see texture flashes |
| 23:59.41 | lol_udied | no. I double checked |
| 23:59.44 | lol_udied | me too |
| 23:59.55 | lol_udied | theres just only one box |