| 00:00.08 | whodaman- | Winny, we wrote like..the exact some thing within 5 seconds |
| 00:00.08 | whodaman- | laugh! |
| 00:00.08 | Ratfink1 | Ratfink, Ratfink1, and Ratfink2 are registered by me. |
| 00:00.13 | JeffM2501 | then ghost it |
| 00:00.23 | Ratfink1 | How do I do that? |
| 00:00.26 | whodaman- | . |
| 00:00.29 | whodaman- | [01:59] <whodaman-> /ghost Ratfink password |
| 00:00.29 | Winny | ...we told you |
| 00:00.30 | Ratfink1 | And what does it do? |
| 00:00.32 | JeffM2501 | just like 2 people just showed you |
| 00:00.38 | whodaman- | disonnects the nick from the server |
| 00:00.39 | lol_udied | People that own a server and is currently hosting a map. Beware of JimbobIII he has hacked Cobra-Fast's maps |
| 00:00.44 | whodaman- | which enables you to /nick to it |
| 00:00.51 | whodaman- | disconnects* |
| 00:00.54 | lol_udied | he has also been banned on MANY maps |
| 00:00.56 | Winny | lol_udied: no, he cheated. Nothing more. |
| 00:00.56 | JeffM2501 | lol_udied, what do you mean "hacked"? |
| 00:01.02 | blast007 | /msg nickserv ghost TheNickYouWantToGhost Password (in case you don't have a /ghost command) |
| 00:01.08 | lol_udied | like he made the server crash JeffM |
| 00:01.08 | Winny | a simple ban removes the problem |
| 00:01.19 | JeffM2501 | lol_udied, that may not be hacking |
| 00:01.33 | JeffM2501 | what did he do, exactly? |
| 00:01.46 | Winny | he probably DoSed it with connection requests.. people do that to Missile War occasionally |
| 00:02.03 | lol_udied | Like he went through the ban list and unbanned the 25 people I banned and cobra fast has banned |
| 00:02.12 | lol_udied | he changed the /set settings |
| 00:02.13 | JeffM2501 | or got a password from a weak link and set one of the many vars that will poof a server |
| 00:02.21 | JeffM2501 | lol_udied, how did he get admin? |
| 00:02.21 | lol_udied | no theres no password |
| 00:02.31 | lol_udied | I dont know Jeff |
| 00:02.32 | JeffM2501 | then how did he get admin? |
| 00:02.40 | JeffM2501 | does the server use global groups? |
| 00:02.44 | JeffM2501 | was he in a group? |
| 00:02.58 | lol_udied | No we use local groups |
| 00:03.04 | Winny | My guess is someone isn't giving you the full story |
| 00:03.05 | whodaman- | heh.. |
| 00:03.08 | lol_udied | and he is a regular person NEVER seen him in my life |
| 00:03.15 | JeffM2501 | lol_udied, do you use local passwords? |
| 00:03.25 | lol_udied | No Passwords |
| 00:03.32 | lol_udied | As I know of |
| 00:03.35 | whodaman- | heh |
| 00:03.35 | JeffM2501 | then you use name based groups |
| 00:03.41 | JeffM2501 | that his a HORIBLE weak link |
| 00:03.54 | lol_udied | I talked to Jumbob on ahs3 map and he says he went on the bzflag cheating site and he loves it |
| 00:03.56 | Winny | yeah |
| 00:04.00 | Winny | use global groups |
| 00:04.05 | JeffM2501 | lol_udied, I'm sure he does |
| 00:04.09 | Winny | lol_udied: who cares? just ban him |
| 00:04.11 | spldart | o...k.... |
| 00:04.14 | lol_udied | I did |
| 00:04.17 | JeffM2501 | sounds mostly like a poorly setup server |
| 00:04.23 | JeffM2501 | then if you banned him, all is well |
| 00:04.24 | spldart | Lets not talk about the cheating sites here k? |
| 00:04.25 | lol_udied | true |
| 00:04.29 | Winny | ok, then you can't do anything else. Secure your server properly and then you're good. |
| 00:04.31 | lol_udied | yeah i banned him MAX |
| 00:04.34 | JeffM2501 | no need to go around and incite a panic |
| 00:04.42 | lol_udied | No Im just warning |
| 00:04.43 | JeffM2501 | since that is exactly what he wants you to do |
| 00:04.49 | JeffM2501 | no need to feed the trolls |
| 00:04.49 | lol_udied | thanks to Donny Baker I was ready |
| 00:04.59 | blast007 | warning us about your bad setup? |
| 00:05.03 | spldart | heh |
| 00:05.07 | blast007 | k, we'll stay away |
| 00:05.07 | Winny | ~blast007++ |
| 00:05.11 | lol_udied | no! xD he warned me about JimBob |
| 00:05.18 | whodaman- | *yawn* |
| 00:05.23 | lol_udied | anyway i was just giving the news about him. Cya |
| 00:05.25 | JeffM2501 | here or privately? |
| 00:05.41 | lol_udied | privately on bzflag |
| 00:05.44 | JeffM2501 | fun |
| 00:06.32 | lol_udied | I found JimBob |
| 00:06.35 | lol_udied | JimBobIIIalachua.homelinux.net:495210.500Blue |
| 00:06.47 | lol_udied | JimBobIII alachua.homelinux.net:4952 |
| 00:06.52 | JeffM2501 | it's ok man |
| 00:06.57 | lol_udied | k |
| 00:07.00 | Winny | then tell the server owner |
| 00:07.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:07.18 | JeffM2501 | the project itself dosn't really manage servers |
| 00:07.35 | lol_udied | its one of anamolys maps. Who serves his maps |
| 00:07.36 | JeffM2501 | and this is not a "shout out who you think is cheating" channel |
| 00:07.45 | JeffM2501 | whoever owns that host |
| 00:07.48 | JeffM2501 | go there and find out |
| 00:08.20 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (n=Paul@71-14-108-006.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 00:08.54 | blast007 | doesn't say, unfortunately |
| 00:09.09 | JeffM2501 | then not much you can do |
| 00:09.11 | blast007 | but you could try a /report |
| 00:09.17 | JeffM2501 | it's the owners fault for not having info |
| 00:09.41 | Winny | anomaly hosts it I think |
| 00:09.55 | lol_udied | hes banned. people did /poll ban |
| 00:10.01 | lol_udied | alls well xD |
| 00:10.11 | JeffM2501 | we don't need a play by play on you following him, ok |
| 00:10.17 | lol_udied | i know |
| 00:10.52 | lol_udied | Donny_Baker told us that he is almost banned on EVERY map on the list. Dunno how but that's what he says. But im done for the day cya |
| 00:10.53 | Winny | if anyone cares, *.1dial.com takes care of JimBob |
| 00:11.10 | Winny | easy cleanup on that one |
| 00:11.19 | lol_udied | whats that? |
| 00:11.22 | Winny | ..his host |
| 00:11.33 | Winny | /hostban *.1dial.com 0 <your ban message> |
| 00:11.46 | lol_udied | thanks |
| 00:12.11 | blast007 | s/<your ban message>/ERROR: 56K DETECTED!/ |
| 00:12.24 | lol_udied | heh |
| 00:13.56 | Winny | ugh, another crash |
| 00:14.06 | blast007 | Winny: bzfs server? |
| 00:14.06 | Winny | I think I'll compile my own build |
| 00:14.09 | Winny | no |
| 00:14.11 | Winny | BZFlag |
| 00:14.13 | blast007 | ah |
| 00:14.15 | blast007 | fun |
| 00:15.01 | Winny | http://pastebin.ca/1185827 crash report |
| 00:15.06 | Winny | looks like it's ATI's fault |
| 00:15.16 | JeffM2501 | or apples |
| 00:17.38 | Winny | I'll do my own build and see if it still happens |
| 00:17.56 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-182-130-120.natwky.res.rr.com) |
| 00:17.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:19.08 | JBdiGriz | Clearly Apple shouldn't be using those ATI chips. ;) |
| 00:19.36 | Winny | ehe |
| 00:19.38 | JeffM2501 | or perhaps just letting customers actualy INSTALL drivers ;) |
| 00:19.56 | JBdiGriz | You can install drivers. I do it all the time. :D |
| 00:20.02 | Think_Differentl | ATI seems to actually gotten Crossfire to work :O |
| 00:21.43 | blast007 | JBdiGriz: newest drivers on ATI's site I see of Macs are from 2005 :P |
| 00:21.49 | blast007 | and for 10.4 |
| 00:22.21 | blast007 | probably aren't any newer than what Apple provides, either |
| 00:22.25 | JBdiGriz | Most people just use the drivers that come with the distributions of Mac OS. |
| 00:22.51 | JeffM2501 | since IIRC apple dosn't realy let the vendors release drivers |
| 00:23.03 | blast007 | I can get newer drivers for Windows 2000 Pro |
| 00:23.08 | JBdiGriz | Not surprisingly, Apple discourages the graphics vendors from releasing drivers. |
| 00:23.31 | JeffM2501 | buy discourage do you mean, Say they will pull the contract if they do? ;) |
| 00:23.32 | JBdiGriz | That doesn't mean that customers "can't" install drivers. |
| 00:23.49 | JeffM2501 | well you can not install what dosent' exist |
| 00:23.57 | blast007 | you just have to break into ATI headquarters and steal them |
| 00:24.09 | JeffM2501 | and write an installer for them |
| 00:24.12 | JBdiGriz | I'm not privy to the actual discussions, but I know there is a lot of close contact between the engineers. |
| 00:24.51 | Winny | wjust built 2.0.13/.11... what's with the font? |
| 00:24.55 | JBdiGriz | It's very easy to install the drivers without an installer. You could use cp. |
| 00:25.11 | JeffM2501 | Winny, it changed |
| 00:25.20 | Winny | JeffM2501: any way to get the old one back? |
| 00:25.33 | JeffM2501 | copy them from an old version |
| 00:25.39 | JeffM2501 | rename the bzdb vars to use the old names |
| 00:25.40 | JeffM2501 | run |
| 00:25.49 | JBdiGriz | And write an installer for them? :) |
| 00:25.55 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 00:26.09 | JeffM2501 | since they arn't officialy supported anymore ;) |
| 00:26.17 | JeffM2501 | and as you said, cp is just fine for mac people |
| 00:26.23 | Winny | why were they changed, anyways? |
| 00:26.30 | JBdiGriz | and Linux/Unix people |
| 00:26.31 | JeffM2501 | the old ones were not open source |
| 00:26.51 | JeffM2501 | bzflag was going to be droped from debian/ubuntu because of them |
| 00:26.58 | Winny | for a font? wow |
| 00:27.07 | JeffM2501 | they were not GPL |
| 00:27.11 | JeffM2501 | or GPL compatable |
| 00:27.45 | JBdiGriz | Free, but not as in freedom |
| 00:27.55 | spldart | deb has been pretty strict on the FREE |
| 00:27.57 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:28.05 | JeffM2501 | free to use, but not free to mod, etc.. |
| 00:29.08 | brlcad | and not free for any use at that iirc (like commercial use) |
| 00:29.22 | spldart | :-\ |
| 00:29.23 | JeffM2501 | yeah they had lots of problems |
| 00:29.31 | spldart | Should I be concerned? |
| 00:29.34 | JeffM2501 | the current ones are compatable and based on the other ones |
| 00:29.39 | JeffM2501 | spldart, naw |
| 00:29.48 | brlcad | why would you? |
| 00:29.48 | JeffM2501 | it's all been fixed |
| 00:30.01 | spldart | k |
| 00:31.19 | brlcad | there was nothing (apparently) wrong with us using it, just goes against debian's own policy .. of forcing out data that doesn't fit within their philosophies |
| 00:31.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:31.49 | JeffM2501 | one could argue that we were only using images of the fonts too |
| 00:31.54 | JeffM2501 | not the actual font files, etc.. |
| 00:32.03 | JeffM2501 | also the new fonts have more glyphs IIRC |
| 00:32.10 | JeffM2501 | for the unicode |
| 00:34.18 | Winny | wasn't the old one a sans-serif font, too? |
| 00:34.38 | JeffM2501 | there are serif and sans versions of the new fonts |
| 00:34.52 | JeffM2501 | it's posible tim got them mixed up in the game |
| 00:35.03 | CBG | Winny: care to post a screenshot? |
| 00:36.02 | Winny | CBG: yeah, one sec |
| 00:37.09 | Winny | CBG: http://bzfusion.net/bzflag/fonts.png |
| 00:37.54 | CBG | Thanks, Winny... and "Eww". |
| 00:38.02 | Winny | sorta grows on ya |
| 00:38.22 | CBG | No hole in "e" characters? |
| 00:38.44 | CBG | well, with small font size at least.. |
| 00:39.27 | JeffM2501 | yep looks like ass |
| 00:39.34 | Winny | does 3.0 support TTFs? |
| 00:39.39 | JeffM2501 | totaly |
| 00:39.43 | Winny | awesome |
| 00:40.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah image fonts are dead |
| 00:40.06 | blast007 | 2.0.x had a win32 tool to make fonts ;) |
| 00:40.35 | blast007 | I even got bored and made a font reader for that system in PHP.... |
| 00:40.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah but it does a bad job at it |
| 00:40.53 | JeffM2501 | and does scaling |
| 00:41.02 | JeffM2501 | TTF renders them in the size they are used |
| 00:41.09 | JeffM2501 | AND supports unicode |
| 00:41.21 | blast007 | the TTF stuff still needs some performance tweaks |
| 00:41.23 | CBG | Well, I guess to be fair... anything you can do in PHP, you can do better some other way. |
| 00:41.25 | JeffM2501 | that it does |
| 00:41.53 | blast007 | I belive it clears away the rendered fonts when you leave the menu, but I haven't checked too in-depth yet |
| 00:42.08 | JeffM2501 | bet it's just state wackyness |
| 00:42.15 | JeffM2501 | should be easy to fix |
| 00:42.20 | blast007 | yeah |
| 00:46.19 | spldart | I lost the game... |
| 00:46.19 | spldart | ...sry... ;) |
| 00:46.31 | spldart | I wonder, sometimes, if debian is being to strict. |
| 00:46.51 | JeffM2501 | they kinda have to be |
| 00:47.03 | JeffM2501 | once you let one in, it becomes harder to controll the really bad ones |
| 00:47.12 | JeffM2501 | I mean it's not like we HAVE to ship with them |
| 00:47.38 | spldart | wonders if he needs to evolve his linux knowledge a bit further... but that is a, only partially, related query. heh |
| 00:47.45 | JeffM2501 | I wonder how many real players we actualy find via the package managers. |
| 00:48.16 | spldart | No problem at all if we decide to package our own .deb of bzflag to be redistributed? |
| 00:48.24 | spldart | Say.. if we were dropped. |
| 00:48.49 | JeffM2501 | there are many ways to distribute software |
| 00:48.53 | Winny | JeffM2501: probably minimal |
| 00:48.54 | JeffM2501 | the debian system is jsut easy |
| 00:49.01 | JeffM2501 | Winny, probably |
| 00:49.06 | Winny | I would be interesting to see an OS by OS breakdown of players |
| 00:49.10 | Winny | s/I/It/ |
| 00:49.15 | JeffM2501 | it would be |
| 00:49.20 | spldart | Peeps come on to site... download Windows, debian/ubuntu, perhaps a *.mo for slax etc etc etc |
| 00:49.27 | JeffM2501 | there are lots of stats I'd like to know |
| 00:49.32 | JeffM2501 | OS |
| 00:49.35 | JeffM2501 | distro |
| 00:49.40 | JeffM2501 | where they got it ,etc. |
| 00:49.54 | JeffM2501 | also like to know number of unques per day/week, etc.. |
| 00:50.08 | Winny | the google stats that got implanted on the main site awhile ago shows 12% linux users, if that's proportional to the players who knows |
| 00:50.23 | JeffM2501 | I doubt it is |
| 00:50.29 | JeffM2501 | I want to know running bins |
| 00:51.18 | Winny | I suppose I could write a plugin to /clientquery every hour on my server and gather the results over a week or something |
| 00:51.25 | spldart | Heh... I only got my own one experience :) Windows zombie.. My broh introduces me to bzflag.. I come into this channel very shortly thereafter and the rest is history. Heck.. My linux experiments became mature and practical mostly because of this very channel ;) |
| 00:51.28 | Winny | but then again different servers might draw different types of users |
| 00:51.33 | JeffM2501 | Winny, I'd like the list server to track it |
| 00:51.38 | JeffM2501 | on each add |
| 00:51.46 | Winny | ahh, that would be interesting |
| 00:51.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:52.04 | JeffM2501 | and useufll I think |
| 00:52.17 | Winny | when the client contacts the listserver, does it send a useragent? |
| 00:52.23 | JeffM2501 | dunno |
| 00:52.26 | JeffM2501 | probalby not |
| 00:52.27 | spldart | Like a log that apache keeps? Hit: This OS and this client type? |
| 00:52.33 | JeffM2501 | I'd do it from the game server |
| 00:52.55 | JeffM2501 | when the game server sends the add for the new player, it sends up the user info too |
| 00:53.09 | JeffM2501 | then we get it form a place all public players have to go, the servers ;) |
| 00:53.29 | JeffM2501 | and that counts reged and non reged, and people who don't list |
| 00:53.42 | JeffM2501 | and from THAT we can also build up the stats database |
| 00:53.45 | JeffM2501 | instead of polling |
| 00:53.52 | JeffM2501 | homes |
| 00:53.58 | Winny | TVs |
| 00:54.00 | spldart | Safe transit |
| 00:54.06 | spldart | safe primetime |
| 00:54.10 | Winny | ;P |
| 00:54.15 | spldart | :) |
| 00:54.16 | JeffM2501 | TV is dead |
| 00:54.20 | JeffM2501 | it's lotro night |
| 00:54.26 | Winny | who? |
| 00:55.01 | Winny | Lord of the rings online |
| 00:55.02 | Winny | ick |
| 00:55.04 | spldart | heads back to SG1/SGA |
| 01:07.59 | blast007 | I think the clients so send their build string to the list server |
| 01:08.01 | blast007 | do* |
| 01:08.29 | blast007 | or at least, there's stuff built into the listserver to READ that kind of a value |
| 01:08.37 | blast007 | maybe it's only for servers |
| 01:24.28 | KingofCamelot | Anyone know how to check a checkbox with only a keyboard? o.O |
| 01:25.48 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
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| 01:27.39 | Constitution | KingofCamelot: tab + space? |
| 01:34.50 | spldart | ditto what Const said... |
| 01:34.59 | spldart | tab tab tab tab space tab tab space |
| 01:35.06 | spldart | etc |
| 01:37.55 | blast007 | or turn on MouseKeys :) |
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| 06:51.59 | Lukstr | waves |
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| 06:57.43 | Constitution | steals DTRemenak's catchphrase and surfs the wave |
| 07:04.20 | Lukstr | injects Constitution with caffeine |
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| 10:11.49 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-002-097.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
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| 11:45.08 | Dont | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:47.05 | *** join/#bzflag Dont (n=5d810d72@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:47.16 | Dont | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:47.33 | Dont | ~bzfquery dont-bzflag.selfip.com:5154 |
| 11:47.49 | Dont | it works? |
| 11:49.01 | Dont | ~bzfquery dont-bzflag.selfip.com:5154 |
| 11:49.13 | Dont | good! |
| 12:51.38 | mdskpr | I have a tree object and it is 400K and I want to put hundreds of trees on the map however......its gonna be way too big to download...any suggestions? |
| 12:52.32 | mdskpr | if I put one hundred of those trees on it would be 40M |
| 12:52.37 | mdskpr | WAAY too big |
| 13:04.45 | F687s | Hmm, have you tried defining the tree object and shifting it around with groups? |
| 13:05.13 | F687s | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Group |
| 13:13.02 | trepan | world data is transferred compressed, so it probably isn't 40M over the wire |
| 13:13.32 | trepan | also, hosting maps from http:// servers is significantly faster than using bzfs' transfer protocol |
| 13:13.43 | trepan | (not to say that using groups isn't the right way to go ;-) |
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| 13:39.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 13:46.01 | mdskpr | ok |
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| 18:26.23 | CIA-37 | FTGL: 03brlcad * r1199 10/trunk/docs/projects_using_ftgl.txt: add Haskell FTGL bindings section per message from Henk-Jan van Tuyl. looks like the implementation was done by Jefferson Heard. |
| 18:45.11 | brlcad | trepan: did you ever profile the net link to see why it's slower? the select/sleep in the run-time loop? I'd expect the negotation on http to be slower but the raw transfer to be nearly the same |
| 18:45.19 | brlcad | unless bz is using some absurdly small packet size |
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| 18:53.24 | Tupone | dunno the context, but ... I guess the nowait and avoiding buffering make net link slow |
| 18:53.40 | Tupone | for tcp messages |
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| 20:55.06 | trepan | brlcad: exactly as Tupone said (ack requirement + no windowing) |
| 20:55.40 | trepan | (iirc) |
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| 20:58.30 | trepan | coupled with the MaxPacketLen ... see playing.cxx:handleGetWorld() |
| 21:02.47 | trepan | and bzfsMessages.cxx:sendWorldChunk() ;-) |
| 21:04.44 | Chestal | yes, it's a simple stop'n'go protocol |
| 21:05.09 | Chestal | well, at least it was years ago |
| 21:06.51 | trepan | ya, code been refactored some, been the proto appears to be the same |
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| 21:08.02 | trepan | on the up-side, it's less likely to cause server bandwidth spikes |
| 21:09.45 | JeffM | we have the fastmap plugin that streams out maps via HTTP |
| 21:09.51 | JeffM | to not use the slow method |
| 21:09.58 | JeffM | it's limited to 1k per lag time |
| 21:10.24 | JeffM | fastmap seems to incrase map transfers by quite a bit |
| 21:10.30 | trepan | or you can use a separate http server, which Tupone added iirc |
| 21:10.35 | JeffM | yes you can |
| 21:10.44 | JeffM | the plugin uses that mechanism |
| 21:10.52 | JeffM | but sets the URL to the server addy/port |
| 21:10.57 | JeffM | then takes the conenct as HTTP |
| 21:11.16 | trepan | separate is nice, when possible |
| 21:11.23 | JeffM | so if bandwith isn't a problem for you, you can get faster map transfers by just droping in a plugin |
| 21:11.40 | JeffM | it transfers it async and dosn't seem to slow the server down that much |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM | but yes, it will not be as good as a sepeate server |
| 21:12.04 | JeffM | but it may be good enough |
| 21:12.23 | JeffM | I made it for epyon's maps that were HUGE ;) |
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| 23:56.48 | Amoeba | are you the real think_tank....? |
| 23:57.43 | Amoeba | oh hi ratty |
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| 23:58.49 | CBG | omfg hi hi hiya heyaz lolz |
| 23:58.57 | Amoeba | eh... hi |
| 23:59.02 | Ratfink | ho |
| 23:59.19 | Ratfink | welcomes you to IRC. |
| 23:59.42 | Amoeba | im an irc n00b.... |
| 23:59.49 | JeffM | we know |
