| 00:01.13 | *** join/#bzflag _Lukstr (n=Lukstr@CPE0080c6efd3fb-CM00195efb656e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:01.25 | _Lukstr | fantastic |
| 00:02.30 | Lukstr | murr.. |
| 00:07.35 | Lukstr | power outage #2... |
| 00:14.48 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:17.22 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18030 10/trunk/bzview/ (7 files in 2 dirs): read the the world and start building up a lightfeather sceeene |
| 00:31.04 | Thumper_ | Lukstr: oops sorry Lukstr... was outside watching baseball |
| 00:33.12 | Lukstr | :P |
| 00:34.43 | Thumper_ | our power hit earlier was probably everyone turning on their air conditioners |
| 00:34.47 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@adsl-160-101-175.asm.bellsouth.net) |
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| 05:06.59 | KingofCamelot | Anyone around? |
| 05:07.24 | Lukstr | no :P |
| 05:08.32 | JeffM | sup? |
| 05:08.40 | Lukstr | (I was kidding :( ) |
| 05:09.09 | JeffM | I know |
| 05:09.40 | Lukstr | I hope he does :( |
| 05:09.45 | Lukstr | love us, KingofCamelot |
| 05:10.07 | KingofCamelot | I've been working with DTRemenak on creating a HUDuiNestedControl class, a type of HUDuiControl that can hold other HUDuiControls. |
| 05:10.18 | KingofCamelot | However, I'm having some issues with the key presses. |
| 05:11.03 | JeffM | dosn't the navigation que handle all the keys? |
| 05:11.19 | KingofCamelot | DTRemenak said I should have the nested controls handle all the key presses, and if it's not caught by the nested control then have the parent handle the key press. |
| 05:11.34 | JeffM | yeah, that's standard |
| 05:11.54 | KingofCamelot | However, I kinda need the container to catch key presses too. |
| 05:11.58 | JeffM | why? |
| 05:12.15 | KingofCamelot | Like for a scroll list, if the user presses up/down, the container needs to properly update itself. |
| 05:12.24 | *** join/#bzflag mattimusprime (n=mconnew@128.187.134.91) |
| 05:12.40 | Lukstr | it doesn't need to know the key press per-se |
| 05:12.49 | JeffM | then in that case the child item won't return that it handled the event, and you pass it up to the next parent |
| 05:12.54 | JeffM | it should be like a tree |
| 05:13.13 | JeffM | for the event if someone dosn't handle it ( even based on a specific key ) pass the buck up |
| 05:13.23 | KingofCamelot | However, by default HUDuiControls handle up/down already |
| 05:13.37 | KingofCamelot | That's how the menus work, etc |
| 05:13.52 | mattimusprime | Hi, I'm a student at BYU and have been tasked with getting the latest bzrobots up to speed. Does anyone know if any work is currently being done on it? The current code doesn't even run without seg-faulting, and I've had to do some changes to get it even to run. |
| 05:13.56 | JeffM | so extend them to be able to not handle it, and pass it up |
| 05:14.06 | JeffM | mattimusprime: not much |
| 05:14.14 | KingofCamelot | JeffM, not sure I follow |
| 05:14.41 | JeffM | KingofCamelot: in this case you'd NOT want the child HUD controlls to handle the up/down since the container wants it right? |
| 05:14.44 | DTRemenak | KingofCamelot: what's wrong with using the callback from the nav queue? |
| 05:14.55 | JeffM | ahh the master awaits |
| 05:15.11 | JeffM | mattimusprime: it's prety much how it is and hasn't had much done in a while |
| 05:15.22 | JeffM | mattimusprime: what do you need to do to it? and on what OS? |
| 05:15.33 | mattimusprime | Anyone got any ideas what's going on? I've got bzrobots to connect, and it appears on the radar, but not on the main screen. It also doesn't appear to be moving. I'v checked, and it is sending MsgAlive. |
| 05:15.58 | JeffM | mattimusprime: more then likely it was never updated to newer protocoll changes, if you are using trunk |
| 05:16.01 | mattimusprime | I'm working on it for preperation to be used in a class (the same class it was originally written for by Andrew McNabb) On Linux |
| 05:16.07 | JeffM | it is basicly not under active development |
| 05:16.08 | DTRemenak | the callback should be called every time the focus changes within the nav queue. then figure out whether it's off the screen, and what direction you need to go, and put the control that is in focus back on the screen. |
| 05:16.27 | DTRemenak | the generic-er the better |
| 05:16.40 | mattimusprime | Somebody did some changes as part of GSoC in 2007, and left it in a non-working state (checked out the code from the last checkin revision of bzrobots and doesn't work) |
| 05:16.51 | JeffM | mattimusprime: yeah.. and? |
| 05:17.10 | KingofCamelot | DTRemenak: I think that will work. I dunno, I could have sworn I ran into a problem...hence why I was asking. I can't quite remember now. I need the container to catch page up and page down, and get called back with up/down presses. Possible right? |
| 05:17.44 | DTRemenak | yeah, have it catch up and down, and call into the nav queue (setFocus(getFocus() + 10) if there are 10 on a page, for instance) |
| 05:17.48 | DTRemenak | err, page up and page down |
| 05:17.58 | DTRemenak | let the controls keep handling arrow up and arrow down |
| 05:18.02 | mattimusprime | Well, I'm trying to get it up to date and work. At the moment, it connects, and shows two robots, once gets disconnected immediately, and the other doesn't show up. I can shoot it, see it on radar, but not in the main window. Any idea what message is not being sent? |
| 05:18.21 | JeffM | probably message join |
| 05:18.23 | DTRemenak | then the callback will get called whether it was paged, arrowed, or reset manually |
| 05:18.30 | DTRemenak | and you can put all the smarts in the callback |
| 05:18.39 | JeffM | have you steped thru a regular client and the robots in a debuger to see the message? |
| 05:18.50 | KingofCamelot | Ok. Guess I need to figure out callbacks. :) |
| 05:19.06 | mattimusprime | Do you mean MsgEnter? |
| 05:19.16 | JeffM | maybe :) |
| 05:19.23 | JeffM | has a hard time remembering all the messages |
| 05:19.34 | mattimusprime | Yeah, sequence of messages are completely different between a normal client and the robot |
| 05:19.49 | JeffM | then you need to fix them so they are the same as a normal client |
| 05:19.53 | mattimusprime | Some things done in different order |
| 05:19.55 | JeffM | we've been changing protocoll in trunk a lot |
| 05:20.09 | JeffM | and I highly doubt anyone keeps the bot project up to date |
| 05:20.12 | JeffM | heck I can't even run it |
| 05:20.15 | mattimusprime | Is the protocol stable now or is this something that will need to be changed again in 6 months? |
| 05:20.27 | JeffM | we don't know |
| 05:20.31 | JeffM | we don't plan like that |
| 05:20.46 | DTRemenak | 3.0 protocol is relatively stable, most likely. it will change rather dramatically when shots get moved in. |
| 05:20.54 | JeffM | ohh yeah |
| 05:20.57 | JeffM | verymuch BIG time |
| 05:21.07 | mattimusprime | What do you mean shots get moved in? |
| 05:21.12 | JeffM | if that's even for 3.0 |
| 05:21.14 | DTRemenak | but the current "plan" (snicker) is for 3.0 to be released without shots |
| 05:21.21 | JeffM | we have a branch where we are redoing how shots are done |
| 05:21.33 | JeffM | and that will change many messages |
| 05:21.52 | JeffM | many many messages |
| 05:22.05 | JeffM | will not miss MsgGMUpdate |
| 05:22.09 | mattimusprime | how far along is the shots stuff? |
| 05:22.22 | JeffM | <-----|-----------------------> |
| 05:22.24 | DTRemenak | it kinda works, sometimes |
| 05:22.34 | JeffM | and it dosn't work, lots of times |
| 05:22.48 | JeffM | DTRemenak: it only looks like it works, it dosn't actualy work ;) |
| 05:22.56 | DTRemenak | heh, good point... :) |
| 05:23.04 | JeffM | it looks like it works for the shooter only |
| 05:23.20 | JeffM | mattimusprime: we don't have hard plans |
| 05:23.30 | JeffM | if you want to make the bots work go for it |
| 05:23.40 | JeffM | I don't think we'll be changing the basic login protocoll |
| 05:23.42 | mattimusprime | So if I redo a load of the code, as long as it stays inside the bzrobots code base, I won't be stepping on anyones toes? |
| 05:23.46 | JeffM | so you should be fine there |
| 05:23.55 | JeffM | mattimusprime: hard to say, but probably not |
| 05:24.23 | JeffM | you intend to submit your changes as patches I take it? |
| 05:24.58 | mattimusprime | Yes, ww would like to be able to simply download the latest and it just work. |
| 05:25.18 | JeffM | then it'll be the developer that applies those patche's job to handle the toes ;) |
| 05:25.24 | mattimusprime | So all changes must be suitable for submitting into the main code |
| 05:25.26 | Lukstr | hehe |
| 05:25.44 | mattimusprime | That'll be the original author then! |
| 05:25.54 | JeffM | perhaps |
| 05:25.57 | JeffM | perhaps not |
| 05:26.09 | JeffM | in general few people "get" the current robots code |
| 05:26.17 | JeffM | I'm not a huge fan of how it's implemented |
| 05:26.22 | JeffM | but I understand why it's done that way |
| 05:26.26 | mattimusprime | He told me he's happy to submit, spoke to him just before he graduated |
| 05:26.35 | mattimusprime | What don't you like? |
| 05:26.43 | JeffM | the fact that it fakes a client |
| 05:26.53 | JeffM | I'd rather the bots all be server side as plugins |
| 05:27.17 | JeffM | then they would be network protocoll independent |
| 05:27.27 | mattimusprime | Can't be done, we run tournaments where students write their own bots |
| 05:27.33 | JeffM | sure it can be done |
| 05:27.40 | mattimusprime | I mean for what we need |
| 05:27.42 | JeffM | you each write a plugin |
| 05:27.45 | JeffM | and run it on the server |
| 05:27.58 | mattimusprime | And when the code crashes, whose to blame? |
| 05:28.15 | JeffM | like I said, I UNDERSTAND why it's done the way its' done, for your specific needs. that's an acedemic use, not a real world playablility use ;) |
| 05:28.27 | JeffM | bzflag is not meant to be a teching tool, tho it's cool that people use it as such |
| 05:28.42 | JeffM | mattimusprime: look at the segfault on the server ;) |
| 05:28.42 | mattimusprime | The current model is communicate to bzrobots over telnet, then there's a clear division and you don't get students whining to the TA's "The problem is in your code, that's where it crashes" |
| 05:28.57 | JeffM | like I said, for your use I understand |
| 05:29.07 | JeffM | that dosn't mean I have to like it as a general bot solution that we maintain |
| 05:29.40 | JeffM | optimaly it'd be cool to have a client that could load server side plugins and run them as remote bots for you use |
| 05:29.52 | mattimusprime | How hard would a plugin be to write? As long as there's a telnet interface, that's all that matters. If the plugin to the server exposed it to the students via telnet, everyone can be happy. |
| 05:29.54 | JeffM | then the bots you guys use could be run server side after they are proven |
| 05:30.08 | Lukstr | telnet? |
| 05:30.12 | Lukstr | for reals? |
| 05:30.13 | JeffM | yeah, no.. |
| 05:30.27 | JeffM | mattimusprime: I never said my prefered solution would be optimal for you |
| 05:30.33 | mattimusprime | yes, it's the easiest way to decouple the code |
| 05:30.40 | JeffM | I care about the game as a playable game, NOT a teachig tool |
| 05:30.42 | Lukstr | eww |
| 05:30.44 | JeffM | mattimusprime: not it's not |
| 05:30.50 | JeffM | clear APIs and dynamic libs are |
| 05:30.54 | JeffM | not networking |
| 05:31.19 | JeffM | if your lib implemented a bot logic class, it would not care if it was run via the server, or a remote network client |
| 05:31.26 | JeffM | it would not need tellnet at all |
| 05:31.46 | JeffM | it would simply be a class that had all the bot info |
| 05:32.09 | JeffM | and that API could be network independent |
| 05:32.12 | mattimusprime | API's are easy to segfault if you are a bad programmer |
| 05:32.19 | JeffM | so is networking ;) |
| 05:32.29 | mattimusprime | not when it's over telnet |
| 05:32.34 | mattimusprime | no pointers |
| 05:32.39 | mattimusprime | just a parsing problem |
| 05:32.52 | Lukstr | O.o |
| 05:33.15 | Lukstr | parsing is worse than all. |
| 05:33.28 | mattimusprime | Is there any skeleton server side plugin I can look at to see about doing it that way? |
| 05:35.23 | Lukstr | is this for an AI class? |
| 05:35.30 | mattimusprime | It is |
| 05:35.55 | Lukstr | who's idea was it to use bzflag? |
| 05:37.16 | mattimusprime | dunno, a few years back history |
| 05:37.29 | Lukstr | hm |
| 05:37.36 | Lukstr | strange |
| 05:37.50 | mattimusprime | is the plugin API reasonably stable? |
| 05:37.52 | Lukstr | traditionally video games have the least AI-like AI's, more like parsers |
| 05:37.52 | DTRemenak | not all that strange, it's a pretty good platform for it |
| 05:37.57 | Lukstr | I suppose |
| 05:38.04 | Lukstr | I'm interested in the quality of the bots :P |
| 05:38.15 | DTRemenak | restricted ruleset, so fairly easy to do learning systems |
| 05:38.34 | Lukstr | I'd be interested if the AI's learned perhaps |
| 05:38.38 | Lukstr | like figured out how to play |
| 05:38.40 | DTRemenak | and I believe it was amcnabb's idea (assuming this is the byu calss we're talking about) |
| 05:38.52 | mattimusprime | We do things like PD controllers for turning as fast as possible without over shooting, path planning, adding in noise to the data so using a kalman filter to then predict where they'll be etc |
| 05:39.14 | mattimusprime | amcnabb wrote bzrobots for the byu class, yes |
| 05:39.49 | Lukstr | no neural nets? :P |
| 05:40.01 | mattimusprime | no, that's machine learning, different class |
| 05:40.17 | Lukstr | ah |
| 05:40.22 | mattimusprime | anyway, got to go. Plugin stuff looks interesting, I'll have a look at that. Looks like it might be a better option. |
| 05:40.37 | mattimusprime | thanks for the tips |
| 05:40.38 | *** part/#bzflag mattimusprime (n=mconnew@128.187.134.91) |
| 05:42.28 | JeffM | wow, that boy dosn't get it |
| 05:42.31 | JeffM | at all |
| 05:44.41 | Lukstr | I'd like to see a neural net learn BZFlag :P |
| 05:49.02 | JeffM | the server side bot API won't work for what he wants to do, for the very reasons he stated |
| 05:49.12 | JeffM | I was simply saying what I'd LIKE to see done |
| 05:49.21 | JeffM | not what he should code up right now |
| 05:54.46 | brlcad | fyi, redirects and responders (re)added for the .com and .net domains |
| 05:55.15 | JeffM | for all our sites? |
| 05:55.27 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:55.35 | JeffM | fun |
| 05:55.44 | JeffM | it's getting time to pull the .orgs from the servers |
| 05:55.46 | brlcad | tim didn't set them up when he pointed them to .bz so they were getting the default .bz responder page |
| 05:56.10 | brlcad | they simply redirect to .org now |
| 05:57.07 | JeffM | a_meteorite: you there? |
| 05:57.23 | a_meteorite | JeffM: yes |
| 05:57.34 | JeffM | you sitll use masterbot.bzflag.org? |
| 05:57.55 | a_meteorite | yes, but it needs new dns |
| 05:58.08 | JeffM | it's going to be masterbot.bzflag.net after tomorow |
| 05:58.20 | a_meteorite | .org getting a makeover? |
| 05:58.28 | JeffM | org is going to be offical sites only |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | .net is for users |
| 05:58.58 | a_meteorite | what official sites are there anyways? |
| 05:58.58 | a_meteorite | my.bzflag.org...? |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | www |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | my |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | foums |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | db |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | wiki |
| 05:58.58 | JeffM | etc... |
| 05:59.05 | a_meteorite | ooh, I didn't know there were that many subdomains |
| 05:59.10 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:59.11 | JeffM | images |
| 05:59.14 | JeffM | resources |
| 05:59.17 | JeffM | lots |
| 05:59.43 | a_meteorite | all I knew about was www, my, images, and db :) |
| 05:59.45 | JeffM | what is the new DNS, I can have it changed at the same time |
| 06:00.00 | JeffM | it's going to a bounceme.net thing now |
| 06:00.02 | a_meteorite | masterbot.sourceforge.net |
| 06:00.07 | JeffM | I'd think you could have that set to whatever you needed it to |
| 06:00.11 | a_meteorite | I could |
| 06:00.19 | a_meteorite | set it to masterbot.bzfx.net then |
| 06:00.21 | JeffM | is it used for a server? or a website only? |
| 06:00.30 | a_meteorite | website only at the moment |
| 06:00.43 | JeffM | why do you need a .bzflag.anything domain then? |
| 06:01.14 | a_meteorite | the program is for bzflag purposes |
| 06:01.22 | JeffM | so?? |
| 06:01.30 | a_meteorite | so...? |
| 06:01.48 | JeffM | just curious why masterbot.bzfx.net isn't good enough |
| 06:01.50 | JeffM | but no matter |
| 06:02.02 | JeffM | I'll add the new dns to the list when he converts them all |
| 06:02.11 | a_meteorite | masterbot is a different project, masterbot.bzfx.net would allow me to change up the DNS at will |
| 06:02.48 | a_meteorite | thanks |
| 06:03.07 | a_meteorite | I haven't been on the up and up for a lot of official bzflag going ons as of late |
| 06:03.21 | JeffM | I sent you an e-mail on it, but it seems it was ignored |
| 06:05.13 | a_meteorite | ahh here it is.. looks like I mistook it for a bunch of other flood of e-mails |
| 06:05.23 | a_meteorite | "bzflag.org domain name changes" |
| 06:05.27 | JeffM | yep |
| 06:05.34 | JeffM | the ducati people ignored me too |
| 06:05.40 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 06:06.00 | JeffM | anyone know if Tim has a gmail account? |
| 06:07.53 | JeffM | a_meteorite: I assume you want me to change your contact to the correct email as well? |
| 06:08.00 | a_meteorite | bzmeteorite@gmail.com |
| 06:08.08 | a_meteorite | was the old contact ameteorite.star@gmail.com? |
| 06:08.11 | JeffM | yes |
| 06:08.13 | a_meteorite | it seems I got a forwarded e-mail to that |
| 06:11.45 | JeffM | sends the big conversion list to tim |
| 06:12.21 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42_ (n=pgordon@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 06:24.51 | JeffM | who hosts the ducati servers? |
| 06:25.20 | blast007 | uh, which one? |
| 06:25.48 | JeffM | ducati.bzflag.org and tlz.bzflag.org |
| 06:27.13 | blast007 | tlz is by the zeebrothers: http://zeebrothers.net/ |
| 06:27.25 | blast007 | (names down in the images) |
| 06:27.31 | JeffM | chestal was the contact for it so he was mailed |
| 06:27.49 | blast007 | k |
| 06:27.56 | blast007 | I don't see ducati.bzflag.org |
| 06:28.00 | JeffM | where is the thread for the current image submiter? |
| 06:28.03 | blast007 | but I do see dub.bzflag.org |
| 06:28.24 | JeffM | dub is frank evers and was emialed |
| 06:28.54 | blast007 | not sure if there is a "current" thread for that |
| 06:29.02 | JeffM | what is the URL? |
| 06:29.06 | JeffM | I just want to mention it |
| 06:29.42 | blast007 | URL of the image submitter? |
| 06:29.46 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:29.48 | blast007 | http://images.bzflag.org/submitimages/ |
| 06:30.04 | JeffM | thanks |
| 07:14.07 | temp_dist | Where is DownloadAccess.txt on standard windows and linux installs? |
| 07:18.40 | blast007 | currently right inside the configuration directory (without the version number), so "c:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents\My BZFlag Files\DownloadAccess.txt" and ~/.bzf/ |
| 07:19.01 | blast007 | I'm considering making the 3.0 file be inside the 3.0 directory though |
| 07:19.41 | blast007 | unless we get the images on a few of the bzflag.bz hosts migrated over |
| 07:20.09 | blast007 | 3.0 is even more restrictive of what hosts are allowed, so stuff like louman.bzflag.bz will be blocked |
| 07:20.40 | temp_dist | never a straight answer is it blast007? |
| 07:21.02 | blast007 | ;) |
| 07:55.38 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteor (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 07:57.36 | *** join/#bzflag Paul_PL (n=pawel@chello087206248103.chello.pl) |
| 08:44.52 | *** join/#bzflag mib_dopq7f (i=7decb0bc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7c79df69e2c279d2) |
| 09:06.03 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@151.201.218.137) |
| 09:45.40 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r18031 10/trunk/web/submitimages/ (116 files in 8 dirs): Fix up the SVN properties. |
| 09:50.10 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r18032 10/trunk/web/submitimages/templates/directory.tpl: Add a link to the image submitter in the directory listing. |
| 09:58.32 | KingofCamelot | Anyone around? |
| 09:58.52 | blast007 | I am, at the moment |
| 09:59.27 | blast007 | but if I stop responding, my head hit the pillow |
| 09:59.32 | KingofCamelot | Quick C++ question...how would you pass a reference to a method? |
| 09:59.49 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-001.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 10:00.06 | blast007 | no idea ;) guess I'm not much help for that topic area |
| 10:00.18 | KingofCamelot | Hmm |
| 10:00.27 | blast007 | maybe with & ? |
| 10:01.24 | KingofCamelot | Played around with it some but can't get it to compile, heh |
| 10:01.47 | Wyk3d | e.g void method(object &ref); .. you have object obj; .. and you call by class.method(obj); |
| 10:01.49 | blast007 | that's usually how I code C++ |
| 10:02.01 | blast007 | "does this compile? nope.. how about this!" |
| 10:03.33 | KingofCamelot | @Wyk3d...sorry, didn't really follow that, heh |
| 10:03.47 | Wyk3d | lol .. what's the compile error ? :) |
| 10:04.14 | KingofCamelot | Let's just go with a quick explanation...the answer will probably be easy for you to spot, heh |
| 10:04.49 | KingofCamelot | Right now most of the menus have a static callback method which it registers to it's controls with setCallback(callbackmethod, (void*)"r") |
| 10:05.13 | KingofCamelot | I'm trying to let a callback go to a container control, so I can't have the callback method be static |
| 10:05.44 | KingofCamelot | so I need to use setCallback(callbackmethod, (void*)"r"), where callbackmethod isn't static |
| 10:06.05 | KingofCamelot | If that makes sense |
| 10:06.48 | Wyk3d | ok .. i think i get it so far .. |
| 10:06.59 | Wyk3d | how is callbackmethod declared ? |
| 10:07.06 | KingofCamelot | So far? That's the extent of the problem really. :P |
| 10:07.33 | KingofCamelot | static void callback(HUDuiControl* w, void* data); |
| 10:07.43 | KingofCamelot | although I need it to not be static to work with my container controls |
| 10:07.56 | Wyk3d | is there any problem with removing "static" ? :) |
| 10:08.19 | KingofCamelot | Yea, once you remove static it stops compiling. :P |
| 10:08.48 | Wyk3d | please paste the error it will be so much easier |
| 10:08.58 | KingofCamelot | 'HUDuiScrollList::callback': function call missing argument list; use '&HUDuiScrollList::callback' to create a pointer to member |
| 10:10.04 | Wyk3d | ahha, so you are doing e.g setCallback(callback, ".."); ? |
| 10:10.24 | KingofCamelot | item->setCallback(callback, (void*)"c"); |
| 10:10.39 | Wyk3d | item->setCallback(&callback, (void*)"c"); |
| 10:10.42 | Wyk3d | without static |
| 10:10.56 | Wyk3d | you need the & |
| 10:11.14 | Wyk3d | in certain versions of VS it may compile without it |
| 10:11.19 | KingofCamelot | I tried that, but it still didn't compile |
| 10:11.19 | Wyk3d | but it's non-standard |
| 10:11.40 | KingofCamelot | error C2276: '&' : illegal operation on bound member function expression |
| 10:12.30 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-001.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 10:12.36 | Wyk3d | try &HUDuiScrollList::callback |
| 10:12.45 | *** part/#bzflag mib_dopq7f (i=7decb0bc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7c79df69e2c279d2) |
| 10:13.35 | KingofCamelot | error C2664: 'HUDuiControl::setCallback' : cannot convert parameter 1 from 'void (__thiscall HUDuiScrollList::* )(HUDuiControl *,void *)' to 'HUDuiCallback' |
| 10:13.44 | Wyk3d | now we're getting somewhere |
| 10:14.03 | Wyk3d | what is HUDuiCallback ? |
| 10:14.14 | Wyk3d | how's the typedef for that ? |
| 10:14.50 | KingofCamelot | Not sure... I just started playing around with HUDuiCallback. That's DTRemenak's work |
| 10:15.00 | Wyk3d | check it :D |
| 10:17.05 | KingofCamelot | If I can find where it's defined |
| 10:17.16 | Wyk3d | it worked with static right ? |
| 10:17.56 | KingofCamelot | Yes, that's how its used in all other contexts, because it's dealing with menus, which there is only ever 1 of |
| 10:18.13 | Wyk3d | in which case it's probably (HUDuiCallback*)(HUDuiControl *,void *); |
| 10:18.25 | Wyk3d | and if it is that |
| 10:18.31 | KingofCamelot | typedef void(*HUDuiCallback)(HUDuiControl*, void*); |
| 10:18.41 | Wyk3d | yes :) |
| 10:18.42 | Wyk3d | so .. |
| 10:18.44 | Wyk3d | bad new |
| 10:18.45 | Wyk3d | s |
| 10:19.01 | Wyk3d | you can't pass the callback parameter unless it's static |
| 10:19.10 | KingofCamelot | D'oh |
| 10:19.11 | Wyk3d | C++ doesn't allow it |
| 10:19.44 | Wyk3d | static functions are treated like normal functions, so you can pass them |
| 10:19.44 | KingofCamelot | Looks like I'll have to talk with DTRemenak |
| 10:20.08 | Wyk3d | you can however make it possible to pass it |
| 10:20.13 | Wyk3d | if you add some templates |
| 10:20.27 | KingofCamelot | Which I know nothing about, heh |
| 10:21.30 | Wyk3d | something like template<class T> setCallback(void (T::*method)(HUDuiControl*, void*), void*); .. |
| 10:21.50 | Wyk3d | so it's T::*method and not just *method |
| 10:22.06 | KingofCamelot | Will that break other calls using a static method? |
| 10:22.10 | Wyk3d | no |
| 10:22.18 | Wyk3d | you can have another function with the same name |
| 10:22.29 | Wyk3d | but with that template |
| 10:23.42 | Wyk3d | i.e one function that accepts *method and one that accepts T::*method, but with the same name |
| 10:24.23 | KingofCamelot | Hmm, interesting |
| 10:26.30 | KingofCamelot | Mmm k. I need sleep. |
| 10:26.37 | KingofCamelot | Thanks for all the help Wyk3d. :) |
| 10:26.45 | Wyk3d | np ;) |
| 10:33.02 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: http://www.goingware.com/tips/member-pointers.html |
| 10:33.38 | brlcad | should be able to do it with or without the template type if you overload setCalllback |
| 10:34.38 | Wyk3d | yeah .. but you'd need to overload it for that specific class |
| 10:35.01 | Wyk3d | and overloading it for every class that needs it is well .. weird |
| 10:35.50 | brlcad | i think he has a usable base class |
| 10:36.12 | Wyk3d | i think it doesn't matter |
| 10:36.20 | Wyk3d | if the method is only in the derived class |
| 10:36.38 | Wyk3d | then you can't pass BaseClass::*method |
| 10:36.57 | Wyk3d | if it's a virtual method, that you have in the base class too then yeah it would work |
| 10:37.58 | Wyk3d | but again it's not very elegant .. |
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| 13:40.41 | Guest993 | hi |
| 13:40.47 | Guest993 | nyone here |
| 13:44.38 | brad | clearly not |
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| 15:25.51 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18033 10/trunk/bzview/ (inc/worldRender.h src/bzview.cpp src/worldRender.cpp): |
| 15:28.22 | Winny | Yay, BZFlag only uses 10% of the CPU on here |
| 15:40.34 | brad | ~fail Winny |
| 15:40.34 | ibot | You suck at everything in life, Winny. I hate you because you fail. |
| 15:40.48 | Winny | ~lart bard |
| 15:40.48 | ibot | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at bard |
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| 16:04.38 | Thumper_ | Winny: so run 8 of them... |
| 16:04.55 | spldart | 8-0 |
| 16:11.03 | ruskie | looks around for jeffm... |
| 16:14.11 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 16:17.02 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:22.43 | Thumper_ | pokes ruskie |
| 16:22.57 | ruskie | JeffM, got it... and I like it... thanks... |
| 16:23.58 | JeffM | cool |
| 16:26.24 | JeffM | was it ok in that envelope? |
| 16:26.36 | ruskie | yup |
| 16:26.39 | JeffM | good |
| 16:26.44 | JeffM | that didn't take too long to get there |
| 16:27.18 | JeffM | probalby helped that I put the correct country on it this time :) |
| 16:27.24 | ruskie | :) |
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| 18:08.54 | blast007 | hi bugQ. whatcha working on at the moment? |
| 18:09.32 | bugQ | playing with breakpoints again |
| 18:10.13 | bugQ | I can't seem to list the code in gdb for the plugins, maybe because they're object fiels loaded at runtime |
| 18:10.20 | bugQ | *files |
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| 18:16.34 | Erroneous | ibot: botmail for KingOfCamelot: http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/2008/07/c-style-callbacks-in-c-code.html |
| 18:43.40 | Admirarch | So, interesting thing |
| 18:44.04 | Admirarch | I seem to be only able to connect to servers on default port. Everything else fails with a connection error |
| 18:48.30 | bugQ | firewall? |
| 18:49.07 | bugQ | maybe only 5154 is opened |
| 18:49.28 | Admirarch | It's a recent problem, and no changes have been made to my setup |
| 18:51.25 | spldart | generally the only wholes you have to make in a firewall are the ones to serve... Umm OS? |
| 18:51.37 | spldart | s/wholes/holes |
| 18:51.38 | spldart | hehe |
| 18:54.33 | Admirarch | It's possibly part of my ISPs comprehensive plans to neuter my internet connection until I give them more money |
| 18:54.42 | Admirarch | We shall see if it clears up after midnight |
| 18:59.15 | Lukstr | is it sad that, just now, I got the Pun that is tanks4code.blogspot.com |
| 18:59.24 | Lukstr | I never saw the "the" before today |
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| 19:16.10 | spldart | is getting stormed on here |
| 19:16.36 | spldart | Hard to repair electronics with no power heh |
| 19:17.54 | Alex135 | JeffM, is that .obj to .bzw converter still around? |
| 19:18.17 | spldart | what was it called modeltool? |
| 19:18.33 | Alex135 | not sure but that name does ring a bell |
| 19:18.57 | Alex135 | last time i used it was over a year ago when my servers were still around and i was makeing maps in 3ds max |
| 19:20.33 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2698 |
| 19:20.37 | Winny | there's a newer one somewhere |
| 19:20.55 | spldart | Looks like modeltools is packed up in the ver 2.0 branch |
| 19:21.00 | Winny | ah, here it is - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11528 |
| 19:21.57 | spldart | I had used model a bit for the obj's I created in wings for my maps a ways back too :) |
| 19:22.19 | Alex135 | ah thanks |
| 19:22.20 | spldart | ~Winny++ |
| 19:22.44 | Winny | yay |
| 19:23.13 | *** join/#bzflag mattimusprime (n=mconnew@128.187.144.211) |
| 19:23.40 | mattimusprime | Anyone here familiar with working with the plugin api? |
| 19:28.24 | Alex135 | Wow, that post also goes and answers a question that i had ages ago about how to make parts of bzflag maps that move i belive. Thanks again... question is will i ever figure out how to use that function properly |
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| 19:43.40 | JeffM | mattimusprime, yes |
| 19:43.53 | JeffM | what I was talking about yesterday was not a sugestion about how you should do your project |
| 19:44.00 | JeffM | but how I'd LIKE to sit it all be done |
| 19:44.19 | JeffM | the current server side player API is not complete, and can't be untill we have the shots abstracted |
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| 19:47.10 | JeffM | delusional I looked at that big texture and geometry pack |
| 19:48.57 | Alex135 | What are the demensions for a standard bzflag map? 400x400? |
| 19:49.01 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:49.09 | Alex135 | ok thanks |
| 19:49.11 | JeffM | so a total of 800 each axis |
| 19:49.43 | mattimusprime | JeffM: I want API stability, and the plugin api has versioning, so as long as bzfs holds to what is stated in the documentation (that old api versions will continue to be supported), then it is the preffered way to do things. |
| 19:50.23 | JeffM | mattimusprime, dude, you don't realy get it |
| 19:50.28 | JeffM | it won't do what you want to do |
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| 19:50.33 | mattimusprime | But updating the shots in the api looks like it should be easier to keep working than message passing |
| 19:50.35 | JeffM | it may be stable, but it is incomplete |
| 19:50.38 | mattimusprime | ? |
| 19:50.42 | mattimusprime | What's missing? |
| 19:50.43 | JeffM | the server doesn't track shots |
| 19:50.47 | JeffM | at all |
| 19:50.53 | mattimusprime | I can do that myself, no problem |
| 19:51.05 | JeffM | no you can't |
| 19:51.12 | JeffM | there isn't enough info sent |
| 19:51.21 | JeffM | that's why we have a shot branch to make it work |
| 19:51.21 | mattimusprime | so using the server api, there's no shooting? |
| 19:51.32 | JeffM | the server side player API is not complete |
| 19:51.35 | JeffM | as I keep trying to tell you |
| 19:51.50 | JeffM | you will waste your entire class time just trying to make that work |
| 19:52.00 | JeffM | yes in the long run it'll be better, but it depends on a LOT of other things |
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| 19:52.36 | JeffM | and as you said, for your class the various clients work better |
| 19:52.41 | JeffM | since one can die and not take everyone out |
| 19:52.48 | JeffM | it's a better solution for your setup |
| 19:53.03 | JeffM | at least untill an API compatable bot client can be made |
| 19:53.07 | JeffM | and that is a long ways away |
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| 19:54.15 | mattimusprime | Here's the problem, my Professors want to keep to the latest bzflag version. If I get the existing (completely broken, non working) bzrobots code working, then it will require someone keeping an eye on bzflag development and updating it as bzflag changes. That's why we got so out of synch with mainline stuff. |
| 19:54.48 | JeffM | mattimusprime, that is your only viable option right now |
| 19:54.52 | mattimusprime | As long as I give a socket interface to the students, then their code won't be able to crash the server |
| 19:55.11 | JeffM | you are welcome to try, but trust me it's not going to be simple |
| 19:55.28 | mattimusprime | Is shots the only thing missing? |
| 19:55.28 | JeffM | also trunk is unstable as a playable platform. |
| 19:55.30 | JeffM | no |
| 19:55.42 | JeffM | only a small number of callbacks are implmeented |
| 19:55.50 | mattimusprime | is movement implemented? |
| 19:55.58 | JeffM | some of it is |
| 19:56.09 | JeffM | but not interpolation with gravity etc.. |
| 19:56.26 | mattimusprime | only need 2d moving |
| 19:56.33 | JeffM | it won't interpolate |
| 19:57.04 | JeffM | it was started, then I saw we needed a server side state to track, and moved on to adding that state before I worked on the bot API more |
| 19:57.13 | JeffM | shots is where we are with the server side state |
| 19:57.20 | Lukstr | is "src/other" already part of cppflags? |
| 19:57.25 | JeffM | and that is a hard enough project that we are paying a studnet to do it over the summer |
| 19:57.46 | mattimusprime | what do you mean by it won't interpolate? |
| 19:58.01 | JeffM | you can call a function that sets your current direction and speed |
| 19:58.09 | JeffM | but it won't keep track of where you are inbetween updates |
| 19:58.20 | JeffM | interpolation |
| 19:58.35 | JeffM | it also dosn't know anything about the map or the world |
| 19:58.42 | JeffM | so there is no collisions |
| 19:58.58 | mattimusprime | So it will say you are at the starting position until it's time to arrive, and then it will suddenly jump there? |
| 19:59.10 | JeffM | it dosnt' even return a state |
| 19:59.19 | JeffM | there is no player state tracking |
| 19:59.35 | JeffM | since at that time we didn't have a player state on the server |
| 19:59.46 | JeffM | we do now, but it's not been expposed to the bot API |
| 20:00.16 | JeffM | bzrobots works because it reuses client code |
| 20:00.22 | JeffM | so it shuld not need THAT Much updated |
| 20:00.26 | JeffM | to be kept current |
| 20:00.38 | JeffM | as long as it calls the high level code in the client then it should be fine |
| 20:01.08 | mattimusprime | The guy who updated it broke some stuff. I don't know how he even got it to run. He changed the sequence of how things start so that some stuff doesn't get initialized and segfaults |
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| 20:01.35 | JeffM | but talk to your instructor before you take on ether task. let them know that the current code is broken. they may not want you to waste time fixing bugs as oposed to making bots. |
| 20:01.42 | JeffM | yeah the student did not finish it |
| 20:01.56 | JeffM | he did a lot of good stuff, but wasn't paid past the summer |
| 20:02.03 | JeffM | of 2007 |
| 20:02.29 | mattimusprime | He changed stuff that didn't need changing. I had to revert the handleAddPlayer and a couple of others to even get it to start. |
| 20:02.47 | JeffM | his goals were not the same as yours |
| 20:02.52 | JeffM | so I'd not say that it "didn't have to be changed" |
| 20:03.04 | JeffM | he was working to make it botcode compliant |
| 20:03.08 | mattimusprime | This was simple connect stuff. |
| 20:03.25 | JeffM | we have changed our netowkring a lot, what he did may have been needed at the time, and we reverted |
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| 20:03.33 | JeffM | we've had to change how we connect a lot |
| 20:03.38 | JeffM | so we can do non client connections |
| 20:04.01 | mattimusprime | We like the botcode stuff. We had an idea to implement the telnet interface in python so that we can add back in the things like the noisey data without messing with the core code |
| 20:04.34 | JeffM | we were hoping that a SoC student would work on it more this year but none applied for that code |
| 20:05.17 | mattimusprime | So the bzflag project is interested in having a working bzrobots? |
| 20:05.26 | JeffM | some have |
| 20:05.37 | JeffM | but yeah it's not like we WANT non working code |
| 20:05.48 | JeffM | we just don't have a lot of interst in fixing it ourselves |
| 20:06.00 | JeffM | and few developers even understand it |
| 20:06.25 | JeffM | I can't work on it cus it can't build or run on windows |
| 20:06.37 | mattimusprime | If I got it working, what do you think would be the likelyhood of the communications stuff being kept up to date with what's in bzflag? |
| 20:06.38 | JeffM | and I have better things to do then refactor it so that it can |
| 20:06.49 | JeffM | mattimusprime, same as it was before |
| 20:06.59 | mattimusprime | so close to none |
| 20:07.03 | JeffM | probably |
| 20:07.27 | mattimusprime | So it seems kind of pointless getting it working unless someone is actively maintaining the code |
| 20:07.32 | JeffM | if tehre were bots that worked with it and ran and were fun, then more people would use it, so there would be more exposure when it borke |
| 20:07.47 | JeffM | mattimusprime, welcome to open source ;) |
| 20:08.26 | mattimusprime | So basically build a bots community |
| 20:08.33 | JeffM | or keep it maintained |
| 20:08.41 | JeffM | nothing says you can't keep it up to date |
| 20:08.43 | mattimusprime | There are many bots built every year |
| 20:08.56 | mattimusprime | My wife says :) |
| 20:09.00 | JeffM | or work on making it use shared code in the client so it dosn't have any connection specific code that needs to be kept up to date |
| 20:09.30 | JeffM | but I find it hard to belive your professors insit that you use code that they should know dosn't work |
| 20:09.41 | mattimusprime | That's what I thought of doing, but didn't want to refactor the bzflag code as it's a moving target |
| 20:09.54 | JeffM | it always will be |
| 20:09.54 | Erroneous | it's not moving that fast, at least right now |
| 20:09.57 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:10.06 | JeffM | it's like small yappy dog walking |
| 20:10.25 | mattimusprime | I'll talk with my professor and see what he thinks |
| 20:10.51 | JeffM | optimaly we'd have a libGame and a libState that coould be rused by client, server, and bot |
| 20:11.18 | mattimusprime | Any idea on a timeline for the server side player api to be working? Are we talking a few months or more like 18 months? |
| 20:11.25 | JeffM | when it's done |
| 20:11.34 | JeffM | we don't do plans |
| 20:11.37 | JeffM | or timelines |
| 20:11.38 | JeffM | sadly |
| 20:11.40 | Erroneous | anywhere from weeks to years ;) |
| 20:11.46 | JeffM | but I'd expect next year |
| 20:11.47 | Erroneous | depends when someone gets the urge to do it |
| 20:11.47 | JeffM | maybe |
| 20:12.14 | mattimusprime | But basically the server side shot tracking needs to be finished first? |
| 20:12.19 | Erroneous | yes |
| 20:12.24 | JeffM | and other server side stuff |
| 20:12.28 | JeffM | correct server side players |
| 20:12.33 | JeffM | server side collions |
| 20:12.40 | mattimusprime | Is this part of the whole push to stop cheaters? |
| 20:12.43 | JeffM | basicly the server needs to have the same state as the client |
| 20:12.48 | Erroneous | shots and collisions are supposed to be done this summer |
| 20:12.49 | JeffM | partly |
| 20:12.56 | JeffM | Erroneous, collisions won't be |
| 20:13.03 | Erroneous | wasn't that Const's project? |
| 20:13.08 | JeffM | yes, but it won't be |
| 20:13.11 | Erroneous | heh |
| 20:13.11 | JeffM | he'll get shots done |
| 20:13.17 | JeffM | and that's the start of colliions |
| 20:13.19 | Erroneous | thus "supposed to be" :) |
| 20:13.21 | JeffM | shots needs lots of work |
| 20:13.37 | JeffM | I've scaled back his goals due to all the techincal issues with shot branch |
| 20:14.06 | JeffM | mattimusprime, cheating is one part, lag compensation is another, as well as more server side controll over the game. |
| 20:14.28 | mattimusprime | So what is working in the server api right now? |
| 20:14.44 | mattimusprime | for bots that is |
| 20:15.06 | JeffM | the can spawn |
| 20:15.07 | Erroneous | chat and spawning |
| 20:15.10 | JeffM | and trash talk peple |
| 20:15.13 | Erroneous | I think that's about it |
| 20:15.17 | JeffM | oh and spin :) |
| 20:15.42 | mattimusprime | Can their position be set? |
| 20:15.47 | JeffM | they get notified of a number of events, like spawns and deaths |
| 20:15.51 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:16.09 | JeffM | they can't die |
| 20:16.10 | JeffM | or shoot |
| 20:17.20 | mattimusprime | Because there are two professors who teach the class. One uses "hoverbot" where you just control the x and y velocities. He plays with freeze tag where you bump into someone on their away side and they stop moving. no shooting. Another bot needs to touch them to unfreeze |
| 20:17.53 | mattimusprime | That will be the next class taught with bzflag. The other class will be a year out. |
| 20:17.54 | JeffM | they don't collide with the world |
| 20:18.01 | JeffM | they can't even get the world |
| 20:18.08 | mattimusprime | Easily enough to do inside the bot |
| 20:18.14 | JeffM | not if you can't get the world |
| 20:18.42 | mattimusprime | what about bz_getWorldObjectList? |
| 20:18.43 | Erroneous | they have no knowledge of the world, at all. the current approach lets them get a copy of the world and use our own obstacle stuff on it |
| 20:18.53 | JeffM | the data in the list isn't complete |
| 20:19.03 | JeffM | it dosn't have accurate world geo |
| 20:19.14 | JeffM | that's just a framework |
| 20:19.20 | JeffM | it's guts arn't implemented yet |
| 20:19.35 | mattimusprime | ok, so the api I'm looking at is really new |
| 20:19.38 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:19.41 | JeffM | it was added for 3.0 |
| 20:20.08 | JeffM | then I ran into the walls of what was missing on the server |
| 20:20.30 | mattimusprime | So this should all be implemented when 3.0 is released? |
| 20:20.35 | JeffM | movement could probably be finished up prety fast as well as collisions |
| 20:20.39 | JeffM | nope |
| 20:20.43 | JeffM | it's not release critical |
| 20:22.05 | mattimusprime | Do you have a problem with me adding in some of the removed features from bzrobots that the guy who made changes last year removed such as being able to add noise, and implementing hover bots? |
| 20:23.26 | JeffM | dude, it's open source, you can do whatever you want |
| 20:23.40 | JeffM | submit it as a patch and we'll review it for sure |
| 20:28.41 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-003-167.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:34.36 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-be677e33ea416564) |
| 20:35.33 | Lukstr | that's what I'm missing! |
| 20:35.35 | Lukstr | gets coffee |
| 20:40.21 | Lukstr | much better |
| 20:40.35 | Lukstr | misses working in an office with an endless coffee supply |
| 20:50.26 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@ip68-108-247-95.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 20:52.46 | spldart | Sounds like my workplace.. Heck we even have a trade pact with the office next door so If either pot is dry the other takes up the slack till a fresh pot is brewed. |
| 20:53.46 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@ip68-108-247-95.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 20:53.50 | Lukstr | We had a sign in the cafeteria above the four giant percolators saying "Complimentary free coffee!!! Let's make 2007 the best year ever!" |
| 20:54.13 | Lukstr | my coworker speculated that we should do no work in future years to keep 2007 the best year ever |
| 20:54.39 | KingofCamelot | What do you do when ibot says you have a message? |
| 20:54.45 | Lukstr | heh |
| 20:55.25 | Lukstr | type |
| 20:55.26 | Erroneous | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:55.29 | Lukstr | awww |
| 20:55.32 | Lukstr | beat me to it! |
| 20:55.56 | Erroneous | "/msg ibot help botmail" is also useful |
| 20:56.49 | KingofCamelot | Sweet, thanks for the post on callbacks Erroneous. I'll be sure to read that. |
| 20:57.15 | Erroneous | sure. probably more than you really needed, but I figured what the heck, as long as I'm writing it all up... :) |
| 20:57.42 | Erroneous | basically it amounts to "use the user data field to pass an instance pointer" |
| 20:58.13 | Lukstr | so libbzw callbacks should work like that |
| 20:58.15 | Erroneous | then you can call an instance method from inside the static callback method |
| 20:58.29 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=delusion@pool-151-201-221-215.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:58.53 | Thumper_ | blast007: ping |
| 20:59.03 | Erroneous | yeah, that's our normal callback model. if you're writing from scratch I have no objection to using template callbacks or functors, but we don't really use them anywhere else |
| 20:59.18 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-003-167.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:59.25 | Lukstr | nah I'm comfortable with c style |
| 20:59.26 | KingofCamelot | D'oh...why didn't I think of that. I was thinking to myself last night how the data field has no use to me really for my callbacks. Guess it does now. :P |
| 20:59.31 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 20:59.46 | Lukstr | hm. |
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| 21:00.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:00.39 | Lukstr | is there a way I can see what the cppflags variable is after configure.ac has its way? |
| 21:01.10 | Thumper_ | Lukstr: config.log |
| 21:01.15 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=fatass__@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 21:01.21 | Lukstr | awesome, thanks |
| 21:03.28 | Lukstr | is it terribly bad to add /src/other/ to the Include path? |
| 21:03.58 | Thumper_ | dunno. no leading / I hope |
| 21:04.07 | Erroneous | there should not be a reason to |
| 21:04.21 | Lukstr | hm |
| 21:04.49 | Erroneous | ah, like for boost? |
| 21:04.53 | Lukstr | yes |
| 21:04.57 | Erroneous | hm, interesting |
| 21:04.58 | Lukstr | because it works like |
| 21:05.02 | Lukstr | well |
| 21:05.03 | Lukstr | you get it |
| 21:05.03 | Erroneous | ask brlcad how he wants it set up |
| 21:05.05 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 21:05.07 | Lukstr | should I put it in a subdir? |
| 21:05.24 | Lukstr | brlcad: ping |
| 21:05.38 | Erroneous | that's one possibility. I probably would have put it in include/boost, personally, but then I probably would have gotten yelled at for doing that :) |
| 21:05.49 | Lukstr | Erroneous: that's where I had it two days ago :P |
| 21:06.07 | Lukstr | interesting is the matter of using system boost if it's there |
| 21:06.16 | Lukstr | seeing as this isn't the true full boost install |
| 21:06.20 | Erroneous | yeah, that is interesting too |
| 21:06.22 | Lukstr | just a micro-slice |
| 21:06.31 | Lukstr | also apparently it changes version to version |
| 21:06.32 | Thumper_ | if you --enable-ftgl-build (or other option) does it add the src/other stuff to your include for that? |
| 21:06.41 | Lukstr | and newer versions support less compilers |
| 21:06.52 | Erroneous | Thumper_: yeah, src/other/ftgl, for instance |
| 21:06.54 | Thumper_ | if so would it make sense to add --enable-boost-build so you can use a system version if there is one, and the supplied one otherwise? |
| 21:07.06 | Lukstr | it doesn't build though :P |
| 21:07.14 | Erroneous | 'twould just set the include path |
| 21:07.30 | Erroneous | might be better to use our own in all cases anyway |
| 21:07.34 | Thumper_ | i.e. you'd use that if you don't already have boost installed on your system |
| 21:07.38 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 21:07.51 | Lukstr | Until full boost is supported |
| 21:07.53 | Lukstr | I suppose |
| 21:07.58 | Lukstr | unless I can check just for Spirit |
| 21:08.24 | Lukstr | alright, here's what I'm doing for now |
| 21:08.26 | Erroneous | but those are all questions for brlcad, the master of directories and build systems, imho :) |
| 21:08.37 | Lukstr | -I\$(top_srcdir)/src/other/spirit/" |
| 21:08.44 | Lukstr | which is just miniboost |
| 21:09.04 | Erroneous | ok, that's not bad |
| 21:09.18 | Thumper_ | easy to change/fix anyway :) |
| 21:09.48 | Thumper_ | better than tossing tons of include files into the default include directory |
| 21:09.58 | Lukstr | well it was include/boost |
| 21:10.00 | Lukstr | so not terribly messy |
| 21:10.12 | Erroneous | so there is a src/other/spirit/boost now? |
| 21:10.19 | Lukstr | very soon |
| 21:10.24 | Thumper_ | true. you'd want it to be easy to update later without having to think what is boost and what isn't |
| 21:10.24 | Erroneous | k |
| 21:10.28 | Erroneous | I think that will be fine |
| 21:12.04 | Lukstr | ugh this is ugly |
| 21:12.15 | Lukstr | I hope it decided to actually svn mv the items |
| 21:12.18 | Lukstr | rather than delete and add |
| 21:12.19 | Lukstr | yay! |
| 21:12.26 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03lukstr * r18034 10/branches/gsoc_libbzw/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Changed Spirit path to improve sanity |
| 21:12.34 | Erroneous | yay CIA |
| 21:12.38 | Erroneous | hugs CIA-35 |
| 21:12.38 | CIA-35 | hugs Erroneous |
| 21:12.49 | Lukstr | I used a sample test app they supplied and verified spirit is functional |
| 21:13.09 | Lukstr | of course they had some weird business of trying to use a .empty() method on a char * |
| 21:13.42 | Lukstr | shudders with joy, bnf notation!!! |
| 21:27.58 | Tupone | Lukstr: CPPFLAGS could be eventually overriden at make time. So, if you think that your include path is mandatory, don't set CPPFLAGS, but .. maybe ... AM_CPPFLAGS |
| 21:28.25 | Tupone | well, something that is added to CPPFLAGS |
| 21:28.26 | Lukstr | we don't know if it's going to be mandatory or not |
| 21:28.36 | Lukstr | I'm just following by example with things like ftgl so far |
| 21:28.53 | Lukstr | but I'll keep that in mind |
| 21:29.38 | Tupone | maybe a good things is to add it in the Makefile.am, like I think I did on the branch |
| 21:29.59 | Lukstr | well if it's required |
| 21:30.18 | Lukstr | I'm not sure if we're going to use local boost if it's available or not yet |
| 21:30.29 | Lukstr | hence why it's sitting in the configure |
| 21:30.56 | JeffM | how many files were you ble to get spirit down to? |
| 21:31.33 | Lukstr | spirit devs claim the minimum is.. 4739 files |
| 21:31.43 | JeffM | brlcad claims it's less |
| 21:31.50 | JeffM | and used a tool to get it down |
| 21:31.55 | Lukstr | Oh? |
| 21:31.58 | JeffM | indedd |
| 21:32.02 | Lukstr | hm |
| 21:32.10 | Lukstr | why would they distribute more then? |
| 21:32.16 | JeffM | I recomend asking him about that |
| 21:32.28 | JeffM | perhaps you need less only for the subset of spirt that you'll be using |
| 21:32.41 | Lukstr | undoubtedly |
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| 21:33.36 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-006-165.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:39.55 | Lukstr | apparently there is a boost tool for extracting subsets of boost |
| 21:39.58 | Lukstr | so I'll give that a try |
| 21:47.51 | *** part/#bzflag mattimusprime (n=mconnew@128.187.144.211) |
| 21:49.56 | Lukstr | well it looks like I can probably cut it down |
| 21:50.08 | Lukstr | but for now I'll work with what's there, and then cut it down once I know for sure what I'm not using |
| 22:16.54 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=none@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 22:21.44 | brlcad | Lukstr: that tool was what we use |
| 22:21.52 | brlcad | s/was/is/ |
| 22:21.54 | Lukstr | bcp? |
| 22:22.04 | brlcad | whatever it's called for extracting subsets |
| 22:22.36 | Lukstr | well I found some tool that comes with the full boost package, I'm sure there are other if you're not referring to that one |
| 22:23.07 | brlcad | sounds like the same one |
| 22:23.14 | blast007 | Thumper_: pong |
| 22:25.47 | brlcad | undoubtedly the discrepancy is they thing the minimum is 4.8k to get all of the features available that spirit supports .. but that only matters if you actually used all features .. I highly doubt every one of their headers include all other headers |
| 22:27.09 | Lukstr | I agree |
| 22:27.20 | Lukstr | but I figure we can cut it down once we know exactly what's needed |
| 22:29.05 | blast007 | or add one file at a time until the build errors go away ;D |
| 22:29.08 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=none@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 22:29.21 | Lukstr | D= |
| 22:29.40 | Lukstr | well if I only use spirit/core.hpp for example |
| 22:29.51 | Lukstr | bcp spirit/core.hpp src/other/spirit/ |
| 22:29.58 | Lukstr | I'm sure that would be small |
| 22:32.30 | Lukstr | brlcad: how should the usage of spirit be handled regarding local boost installs? |
| 22:33.57 | blast007 | bugQ: still working on breakpoints? :p |
| 22:35.01 | bugQ | no, I'm setting that aside...working on group perms now |
| 22:35.25 | JeffM | bugQ, you really need to be able to debug |
| 22:35.31 | brlcad | Lukstr: that's exactly how I'd start with bcp, just to not pollute the svn history with stuff that's never used |
| 22:36.03 | brlcad | (so far) bcp has done a perfect job to pull in all headers |
| 22:36.05 | Lukstr | so you suggest I just start with core.hpp for example? |
| 22:36.27 | brlcad | supposedly you have a testing snippet? |
| 22:36.34 | brlcad | if not, write one ;) |
| 22:36.38 | Lukstr | I was messing with the test code they provided |
| 22:36.41 | brlcad | then include what's needed for it to work |
| 22:36.44 | bugQ | JeffM: ya, so how does one use gdb to set breakpoints for code that it doesn't see? |
| 22:36.50 | Lukstr | aye |
| 22:36.55 | JeffM | bugQ, you make it see it |
| 22:36.57 | Lukstr | that's what I'm figuring out now |
| 22:37.22 | brlcad | regarding local boost installs, there's a boost m4 that will perform the configure tests |
| 22:37.41 | Lukstr | should we even bother if the spirit package is so small? |
| 22:38.15 | brlcad | size isn't usually the metric that matters |
| 22:38.38 | bugQ | oh wow, I think I found it |
| 22:38.40 | bugQ | dur |
| 22:38.52 | brlcad | though in boost's case given it's all templatized header shtuff, you can maybe get away with it |
| 22:39.36 | bugQ | add-shared-symbol-files, right? |
| 22:39.49 | brlcad | e.g. we don't always built libz, even though it's so tiny .. if the system one works and it wasn't turned off, no reason to bloat the binary (and potentially generate a buggy binary that can't be patched) |
| 22:40.03 | bugQ | except "This command is not available in this configuration of GDB." on .bz |
| 22:40.51 | brlcad | bugQ: what are you trying to do? |
| 22:40.58 | Lukstr | right |
| 22:41.21 | bugQ | brlcad: debug HTTPServer |
| 22:41.38 | blast007 | (a plugin) |
| 22:41.40 | brlcad | but like i said, they're headers that will compile in static regardless, so for spirit it really doesn't matter so much |
| 22:42.03 | bugQ | right, thanks, blast007 |
| 22:43.31 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 22:49.36 | bugQ | um, now I can't reproduce the segfault... |
| 22:50.08 | bugQ | so, can you see this? http://bzflag.bz:8472/ |
| 22:50.27 | JeffM | just hangs |
| 22:50.48 | bugQ | !? |
| 22:51.00 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=chris@101.44.82-79.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 22:51.06 | Happy_Alice | ² |
| 22:51.11 | bugQ | it worked right until I posted the link |
| 22:51.20 | brlcad | bugQ: run "file path/to/your/lib" to preload it |
| 22:51.23 | JeffM | probably a multiple connection thing |
| 22:52.14 | bugQ | anyway, the link to the webadmin vdir was http://localhost:8472/webadmin instead of bzflag.bz |
| 22:52.31 | brlcad | yeah, if I just telnet to port 8472, it kicks me off immediately |
| 22:52.55 | bugQ | oh, my ssh session expired. dur |
| 22:53.36 | bugQ | how about now? |
| 22:54.01 | JeffM | get further |
| 22:54.15 | JeffM | the index link is redirecting to localhost |
| 22:54.20 | bugQ | right |
| 22:54.29 | JeffM | is the server run with -public and -publicaddr ? |
| 22:54.39 | bugQ | oh. |
| 22:54.44 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-50.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:54.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 22:54.48 | JeffM | if not it dosn't know it's own domain name |
| 22:54.59 | bugQ | why doesn't it just use relative links? |
| 22:55.10 | JeffM | cus I didn't write it to do so |
| 22:55.14 | JeffM | just put / ? |
| 22:55.18 | bugQ | right |
| 22:56.08 | JeffM | these are all reasons I wanted you to get it runing so long ago |
| 22:56.22 | JeffM | pokes |
| 22:56.29 | bugQ | ya |
| 22:56.31 | JeffM | waits for slowness |
| 22:57.10 | JeffM | so <a href="\VDIR\"> ? |
| 22:57.27 | bugQ | well, with forward slashes, but ya |
| 22:58.25 | bugQ | publicaddr does the trick tho, thanks |
| 22:59.09 | JeffM | it's fixed |
| 22:59.22 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18035 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/HTTPServer/HTTPServer.cpp: use relative links for the index page, makes it a lot simpler. |
| 22:59.27 | JeffM | yay for CIA-35 |
| 23:01.33 | bugQ | oh, apparently the query string is kept in the resource string |
| 23:01.43 | bugQ | is it supposed to do that? |
| 23:01.58 | JeffM | it can go ether way |
| 23:02.15 | JeffM | I figured I'd leave the entire URL after the vdir since that's what was requested |
| 23:02.26 | JeffM | and copy out the params for ease of use |
| 23:02.27 | bugQ | ok, that's fine |
| 23:02.39 | JeffM | tho it may make sense to have the resource be the stuff before the ? |
| 23:02.44 | JeffM | for simplicity |
| 23:02.53 | JeffM | or maybe 2 strings |
| 23:03.05 | JeffM | one for the full unmolested URL and one for the resource portion |
| 23:03.09 | JeffM | what do you think? |
| 23:03.15 | bugQ | ya, that's good |
| 23:03.20 | bugQ | resource and query |
| 23:03.36 | JeffM | well the query is in the params map |
| 23:03.41 | JeffM | you get that with get paramater |
| 23:04.02 | bugQ | right |
| 23:04.40 | bugQ | ya, and it would be irrelevant for post, anyway. ok |
| 23:05.27 | bugQ | oh, NOW I get the segfault.. |
| 23:05.27 | JeffM | ok, so it sounds like you are saying just pull the stuff after the ? out of the resource |
| 23:05.29 | JeffM | and then we have it all |
| 23:05.34 | bugQ | ya. |
| 23:14.55 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=fatass__@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 23:15.07 | *** join/#bzflag bz35 (n=543e8b04@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:15.24 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r18036 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/HTTPServer/HTTPServer.cpp: trim the params off the end of the resource URL after we parse them. |
| 23:17.23 | *** join/#bzflag bz12 (n=543e8b04@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:19.01 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@212.119.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:20.04 | spldart | I know this is kinda dorky compared to the meat and pototoes that jeffm is trying to address but in the readme perhaps you could delete the first 'the' in the README.txt and add "a |
| 23:20.04 | spldart | running" before and a "process" after the "BZFS" :) It seems more accurate to the task being worked towards. |
| 23:21.27 | JeffM | spldart, do it |
| 23:21.47 | JeffM | you have the power! |
| 23:22.16 | bugQ | oh, are plugins not being compiled with debug options? |
| 23:22.23 | JeffM | they are on windows |
| 23:22.31 | bugQ | hhm |
| 23:22.51 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03bzspldart * r18037 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/webadmin/README.txt: More accurately descriptive README |
| 23:23.34 | bugQ | gdb didn't find any debug symbols |
| 23:25.35 | Happy_Alice | have u compile with the -g flag ? |
| 23:26.48 | bugQ | ya, it doesn't look like it |
| 23:27.30 | Happy_Alice | weird. have u do a ./configure --debug ? |
| 23:28.02 | bugQ | oh, no, but I thought everything had it by default. let me try that |
| 23:28.13 | JeffM | no, debuging is not on by default |
| 23:28.26 | JeffM | debug builds are larger and not optimised, so we would not do them by default |
| 23:28.26 | spldart | --enable-debug in linux |
| 23:28.46 | spldart | sry |
| 23:28.49 | Happy_Alice | yes.. do a ./configure --enable-debug |
| 23:29.06 | spldart | That was prolly par for the course hehe |
| 23:29.22 | bugQ | funny, I can debug the executable that shows up at src/bzfs/bzfs |
| 23:29.59 | bugQ | whee |
| 23:30.43 | spldart | How were you running ./configure exactly? |
| 23:31.02 | bugQ | no args on linux, --enable-freetype-build on mac |
| 23:31.51 | spldart | Kdok.. well if you want debug capability. And I always do in trunk then make sure of the --enable-debug |
| 23:32.19 | spldart | Not sure if it's the same arg in mac though.. prolly |
| 23:32.45 | bugQ | looks like it |
| 23:33.30 | *** join/#bzflag bz75 (n=543e8b04@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:34.31 | bugQ | oh, and spldart, trunk doesn't build on .de because it can't find c-ares |
| 23:34.47 | bz75 | hmm? |
| 23:34.57 | bz75 | hello |
| 23:35.00 | JeffM | hello |
| 23:35.00 | spldart | I remember you mentioning that |
| 23:35.28 | JeffM | ibot botmail for brlcad can you install c-ares on .de so bz builds? |
| 23:35.29 | spldart | I need to get an account set up on .de apparently since to check that out since i've never built on freebsd |
| 23:35.37 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=none@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 23:35.38 | spldart | w0rd |
| 23:35.49 | bz75 | i am T3rr0rzw3rg Scream Nighthawk Zw3rgy Zwerg T3 T3zwerg T3zwergy (= lucvky tank (i was , now its another player (= ) |
| 23:35.54 | bugQ | oo, it's a bsd machine? :) |
| 23:36.00 | spldart | grrr... incongrous sentences pwn me |
| 23:36.01 | JeffM | bz75, Riiiiggghhhtttt |
| 23:36.03 | spldart | I believe so |
| 23:36.06 | bz75 | n(= |
| 23:36.08 | bz75 | (= |
| 23:36.09 | JeffM | spldart, no debian |
| 23:36.12 | spldart | really? |
| 23:36.20 | spldart | I could have sword.. |
| 23:36.22 | spldart | sry |
| 23:36.23 | JeffM | .bz is bsd, .de is debian IIRC |
| 23:36.30 | spldart | OH! |
| 23:36.36 | bugQ | ah. |
| 23:36.57 | spldart | goes to his debian keyboard |
| 23:37.52 | bz75 | WHERE i can find wizard? |
| 23:38.03 | JeffM | not here |
| 23:38.12 | bz75 | maybe anyone know where he is ) |
| 23:38.14 | bz75 | n= |
| 23:38.24 | JeffM | send him/her a PM on the fourms |
| 23:38.34 | JeffM | it will notify them in game, and send them an e-mail |
| 23:38.41 | JeffM | not everyone is on IRC |
| 23:39.44 | bugQ | okaay, .configure with no args says CXXFLAGS = -g -O2, and for --enable-debug it's -g -O2 -O0. |
| 23:39.53 | bugQ | ./configure, that is |
| 23:40.07 | JeffM | yeah you don't want any optimisations for debug |
| 23:40.22 | brlcad | JeffM: c-ares is in src/other |
| 23:40.26 | spldart | yeah |
| 23:40.33 | spldart | was just noticing |
| 23:40.42 | JeffM | brlcad, for some reason his build isn't finding it |
| 23:40.51 | JeffM | hmm what is the past tense of smite? |
| 23:40.54 | spldart | but mine is in debian etch |
| 23:41.00 | bugQ | oh, so yoou can debug executables, but not shared libs with optimization? |
| 23:41.15 | JeffM | bugQ, you can do optimisation with ANYTHING debug |
| 23:41.17 | JeffM | you just should not |
| 23:41.23 | JeffM | as it may make your debuging "wierd" |
| 23:41.28 | JeffM | optimisations change code |
| 23:41.35 | JeffM | so the bytecodes don't match the sources |
| 23:41.38 | bugQ | right, ok |
| 23:41.40 | spldart | My experience is ONLY debug executables |
| 23:42.29 | bugQ | did smite = smote, isn't it? |
| 23:42.42 | Lukstr | yes |
| 23:42.47 | Lukstr | smite is future actually |
| 23:42.55 | JeffM | I was smote |
| 23:42.58 | JeffM | is that valid? |
| 23:43.00 | bugQ | smitten |
| 23:43.00 | Lukstr | I am smote |
| 23:43.03 | Lukstr | hah |
| 23:43.08 | JeffM | smited? |
| 23:43.13 | Lukstr | thou art smote? |
| 23:43.17 | JeffM | virtual void smote ( SmiteReason reason = eOtherDeath ); |
| 23:43.21 | spldart | LOL |
| 23:43.23 | JeffM | no this is a function name :) |
| 23:43.33 | Epyon | why is it virtual? |
| 23:43.49 | JeffM | so the derived class can overide it and get notification of when it is killed by the server |
| 23:43.56 | JeffM | as oposed to death by player |
| 23:44.01 | Epyon | heh |
| 23:44.09 | bugQ | huh, past participle can be either smote or smitten |
| 23:44.09 | JeffM | phydrivers, etc.. all smite now |
| 23:44.48 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.49 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.49 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:45.30 | Epyon | where's virtual void pwned { pwnage(); } ? |
| 23:46.01 | Epyon | uh, |
| 23:46.25 | Epyon | virtual void pwned ( int pwner ); // bot has been pwned |
| 23:47.28 | JeffM | that would be a method in the derived class |
| 23:48.40 | Epyon | btw, on a more serious note, is there a reason, except C "tradition", to write method(void) for methods that don't take arguments? |
| 23:48.59 | JeffM | so there is no doubt |
| 23:49.15 | Lukstr | yeah, so it's obvious it takes nothing |
| 23:49.23 | Epyon | what doubt is there in () ? |
| 23:49.49 | JeffM | various langauges use that construct and it may have different meanings |
| 23:49.53 | JeffM | I prefer things spelled out |
| 23:49.55 | bugQ | it's kind of a stupid reason, a legacy syntax problem, so it's not strictly necessary anymore |
| 23:49.58 | Epyon | was wondering wether to adapt that convention or not. |
| 23:50.10 | Lukstr | I wouldn't bother |
| 23:50.16 | JeffM | you should use the bzflag devinfo rules |
| 23:50.26 | JeffM | and make you code look like the other code |
| 23:50.30 | JeffM | for consitency |
| 23:50.38 | Epyon | tries to remember if there was something about ( void ) there |
| 23:50.58 | JeffM | "and make your code look like the other code, for consitency" |
| 23:51.03 | Epyon | JeffM, I know, it will hopefully land in bzflag/ eventually |
| 23:51.08 | JeffM | exactly |
| 23:51.19 | bugQ | Epyon: there is not |
| 23:51.29 | Epyon | I already switched to blockstyle comments for example |
| 23:51.40 | Happy_Alice | could we add new .cxx file ? and how to modify the Makefile ? |
| 23:51.59 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, you don't modify makefiles |
| 23:52.04 | JeffM | you modify the makefile.am |
| 23:52.06 | JeffM | and add it |
| 23:52.14 | Happy_Alice | oohhh...i see |
| 23:52.16 | JeffM | then wait for a windows developer to curse |
| 23:52.42 | Happy_Alice | windows ? |
| 23:52.51 | JeffM | the windows build dosn't use the makefile |
| 23:53.05 | Happy_Alice | i dont use windows |
| 23:53.11 | JeffM | but others do |
| 23:53.19 | Happy_Alice | why ? |
| 23:53.21 | JeffM | so if you add a file and it gets into the mainline, it has to be added to windows too |
| 23:53.22 | Happy_Alice | joke |
| 23:53.27 | bugQ | good question! :P |
| 23:53.29 | Lukstr | heh |
| 23:53.41 | JeffM | bugQ, because we CAN debug DLLs ;) |
| 23:54.35 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, what are you trying to do? |
| 23:54.49 | Happy_Alice | still my translator project |
| 23:54.53 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:54.59 | Happy_Alice | and i am very advanced now |
| 23:55.08 | JeffM | then yeah any files you add would have to be added to windows too |
| 23:55.35 | Happy_Alice | for now, i have added new class in existing .cxx files |
| 23:55.48 | Epyon | uses windows out of neccessity |
| 23:55.55 | bugQ | is sorry |
| 23:56.04 | JeffM | at least he can debug |
| 23:56.07 | JeffM | so don't be sorry |
| 23:56.13 | bugQ | ;P |
| 23:56.22 | JeffM | it ain't a joking matter |
| 23:56.24 | Epyon | Once you really learn it it becomes quite stable :P |
| 23:56.38 | Lukstr | indeed it does |
| 23:56.39 | Epyon | But unless you're a CS student it's hard to keep it stable xP |
| 23:56.49 | spldart | understand the windows necessity thing.. |
| 23:56.49 | Lukstr | lies |
| 23:57.02 | spldart | is forced to use windows once every week or two at work |
| 23:57.10 | JeffM | it's not that hard to keep windows stable, you just have to have some common sense |
| 23:57.28 | Epyon | JeffM, which most computer users lack xP |
| 23:57.43 | spldart | Most unfortunately true... |
| 23:57.48 | Lukstr | it's certainly easier to use than *nix |
| 23:57.50 | spldart | But then that's there problem |
| 23:57.58 | Epyon | Lukstr, ubuntu? |
| 23:58.01 | Lukstr | Yes |
| 23:58.03 | spldart | heh |
| 23:58.04 | JeffM | Epyon, and they jack linux up just as easy ;) |
| 23:58.15 | Lukstr | Linux is good if you're patient |
| 23:58.25 | spldart | Not without a root password |
| 23:58.27 | JeffM | OSX has the advantage of not allowing users to do anything |
| 23:58.35 | bugQ | har |
| 23:58.35 | Lukstr | my friend says he'll switch to linux when he never has to type anything into a terminal ever |
| 23:58.43 | Epyon | Lukstr, its just that people are used to windows. I introduced my mom to ubuntu as her first computer, and she rarelyy calls me now for assistance :P |
| 23:58.55 | JeffM | spldart, it's cake to jack up an ubuntu install, it asks for your user password, then screws you over. |
| 23:59.06 | Happy_Alice | is it possible to cross compile from linux to OsX ? |
| 23:59.10 | Lukstr | not just that Epyon, Windows works out of the box very often |
| 23:59.12 | JeffM | probably |
| 23:59.15 | Epyon | Lukstr, lol -- I'd mainly switch to linux not to have to touch the mouse again xP |
| 23:59.16 | Lukstr | I can't say the same with Ubuntu |
| 23:59.20 | JeffM | it should be possible to cross to anything |
| 23:59.22 | Lukstr | Epyon: So would I |
| 23:59.33 | Lukstr | this is way OT though, so. |
| 23:59.35 | Happy_Alice | JeffM..do u know how? |
| 23:59.54 | spldart | thinks a fully outfitted deb install given to a noob without the root password is a good way to keep the network safe hehe |