| 00:01.06 | Lukstr | alright |
| 00:02.17 | Erroneous | and it's not completely out of scope to say something like "the way the client handles the world sucks and it'll need to be at least partially rewritten" (if it's true) |
| 00:02.25 | Lukstr | heh |
| 00:03.08 | Erroneous | I guess what I'm getting at is that it's ok to adapt our programs to your interface instead of the other way around |
| 00:03.27 | Erroneous | especially if it makes the interface cleaner or more logical |
| 00:03.55 | Lukstr | well at this point I don't think I'm educated enough to make that decision |
| 00:03.57 | Lukstr | soon, however |
| 00:04.07 | Erroneous | ok :) |
| 00:04.09 | JeffM | builds a materials system |
| 00:05.21 | Erroneous | oh, and also, don't worry about the over-the-wire world stuff. I'd like to tear that out completely and just send a compressed copy of the original map file, and have the client parse it again. |
| 00:05.37 | Lukstr | that sounds wonderful to me |
| 00:06.13 | Erroneous | it's a lot of complexity for not much gain and has some huge drawbacks (like comments not being preserved, and mesh primitives degrading to meshes) |
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| 00:07.33 | Lukstr | yeah that's an odd thing to have as part of it |
| 00:07.51 | Lukstr | especially since you then have to rely on curl even if you don't need it |
| 00:08.35 | Erroneous | the biggest use of curl is reading maps from remote locations. we'll still need that. |
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| 00:08.55 | Lukstr | what's the net stuff then? |
| 00:09.10 | Erroneous | MsgWorld and friends |
| 00:09.20 | Lukstr | oh, haven't even seen that yet :P |
| 00:09.23 | Erroneous | basically the server has a packing mechanism for the world |
| 00:09.36 | Erroneous | packs up all the objects into a binary "over-the-wire" format |
| 00:09.42 | Erroneous | and then the client unpacks it all again |
| 00:10.02 | Erroneous | that's where the client's world representation comes from |
| 00:10.11 | Lukstr | right |
| 00:10.37 | Lukstr | Well that would be something to have in a seperate/add-on lib, no? |
| 00:10.46 | Erroneous | what would? |
| 00:10.54 | Lukstr | over-the-wire business |
| 00:11.01 | Lukstr | (still part of libbzw) |
| 00:11.13 | Erroneous | I'd rather just not bother :) |
| 00:11.21 | Lukstr | with including it? |
| 00:11.28 | Lukstr | OHhh I misunderstood |
| 00:11.28 | Lukstr | okay |
| 00:11.35 | Lukstr | we have the same vision then :) |
| 00:11.36 | Erroneous | i.e. if the server is getting the map from http, send the client the same address and have it get it itself |
| 00:11.44 | Lukstr | right, exactly |
| 00:11.48 | Erroneous | or if it's getting it from a file, just gzip it and transmit the whole thing |
| 00:11.54 | Lukstr | I was talking about how including curl would be messy for something like bzwb |
| 00:12.17 | Erroneous | yeah, files opened via curl are read-only, for one thing |
| 00:12.37 | Erroneous | same with the blob-input stuff on the server |
| 00:14.28 | Erroneous | so there should be a good way to abstract that out. probably make libbzw accept just an istream. |
| 00:14.40 | Erroneous | then have the client application handle the "where does the istream come from" part |
| 00:15.08 | Lukstr | that's more like it :) |
| 00:15.22 | Erroneous | yeah, I see what you were getting at now :) |
| 00:16.03 | Lukstr | alright |
| 00:16.18 | Erroneous | the existing multi-sourced input stuff is really just layered on. all the actual world objects just pass the stream around. so it's ok to move that out another layer and keep a nice clean world class. |
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| 01:55.46 | praetorian | if you are a const, you aren't changing |
| 01:55.47 | praetorian | :~ |
| 01:56.10 | F687s | I'm duck-typed. ;-) |
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| 02:39.47 | Epyon | Word of the day -- boost |
| 02:39.55 | Epyon | has been doing research |
| 02:40.07 | Epyon | Why does BZFlag not use boost? |
| 02:40.12 | Lukstr | because |
| 02:40.23 | Lukstr | I'm personally against using boost on many levels |
| 02:40.37 | Epyon | i mean boost+c++ is like taking c++ to another level of greatness |
| 02:42.26 | JeffM | because it'd be another dependency and noone has come up with a super critical reason why we need to use it |
| 02:42.47 | JeffM | using it in your tool would pobably be acceptable |
| 02:42.52 | Lukstr | too many people treat it as an almost standard library for C++ |
| 02:42.53 | Epyon | Most of the boost libraries are just headers |
| 02:43.06 | JeffM | Lukstr: that's because it's where the standard library basicly comes from |
| 02:43.08 | Epyon | But so.... beautiful. |
| 02:43.35 | JeffM | Epyon: do you need to use it? |
| 02:43.59 | Epyon | JeffM, no *need*, but it'd make life much more nicer :P |
| 02:44.19 | Lukstr | I like the threading library |
| 02:44.20 | JeffM | Epyon: then go ahead |
| 02:44.33 | JeffM | it's not a bad place for us to try it out |
| 02:44.42 | JeffM | and see how it works on the various platforms |
| 02:44.44 | Epyon | is really impressed by some of the really life simplifing things of boost |
| 02:44.57 | Lukstr | and their random number library is good, and should always be used |
| 02:45.04 | Lukstr | It's like a whole new language |
| 02:45.19 | JeffM | using it for smart pointers later may be good too |
| 02:45.20 | Lukstr | Coffee: Ingested. Knuckles: Cracked. |
| 02:45.22 | Epyon | JeffM, as long as one sticks to the header-only libraries it'd be a sin not to use them when possible :P |
| 02:45.42 | JeffM | Epyon: you presume that the headers work on all OSs and targets ;) |
| 02:45.59 | Epyon | JeffM, that's what boost is all about. |
| 02:45.59 | JeffM | there is also the matter of getting the build system to use them |
| 02:46.17 | JeffM | Epyon: perhaps, that is why I say your tool is a good place to start to try it |
| 02:46.18 | Epyon | It's as standard as anything can get. |
| 02:46.29 | JeffM | but I'd not jump in and put it in the core product with out trying it on a smaller app first |
| 02:46.32 | JeffM | so go ahead |
| 02:46.37 | Epyon | Yeah, understood. |
| 02:46.42 | Lukstr | you could always wait around for them to be standard :P |
| 02:46.45 | Epyon | But let me say one thing: |
| 02:47.04 | Epyon | After I saw boost, I'll never start a project in FreePascal again :P |
| 02:47.10 | JeffM | Epyon: standard for modern compilers sure, but remember we are 'suposed' to build on old sun and sgi compilers |
| 02:47.26 | Lukstr | careful with license issues too |
| 02:47.36 | Epyon | Well, bzwgen generated maps wouldn't stand a chance on older systems anyway ^_^ |
| 02:47.36 | JeffM | indeed |
| 02:47.39 | Lukstr | JeffM: good point |
| 02:47.46 | JeffM | Epyon: sure they would, as SERVERS |
| 02:47.49 | JeffM | not as clients |
| 02:47.53 | JeffM | remember your tool is a SERVER tool |
| 02:48.03 | Epyon | boost has a liberal licence as far as liberal goes. |
| 02:48.34 | JeffM | why are you still talking about it, if you want to use it, use it |
| 02:48.40 | Lukstr | haha |
| 02:48.42 | Epyon | http://www.boost.org/LICENSE_1_0.txt |
| 02:48.53 | Lukstr | when C++ becomes full unicode compliant... mmm |
| 02:49.04 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 02:49.31 | Epyon | never cared about unicode |
| 02:49.43 | Lukstr | Epyon: everyone should though. |
| 02:49.51 | JeffM | we care about unicode now |
| 02:49.54 | JeffM | since we support it |
| 02:50.16 | Epyon | Probably because I hate any other language than english on any machine :P |
| 02:50.32 | JeffM | how are your rulesets going? |
| 02:50.32 | Lukstr | pff, you program in english? |
| 02:50.40 | Epyon | Doesn't make me much of a patriot I guess. |
| 02:51.19 | Epyon | Lukstr, when it comes to coding, I write designs in english, code in english, comments in english. Always. |
| 02:51.33 | Lukstr | I was trying to point out that C++ isn't english :P |
| 02:51.34 | Lukstr | it's C++ :P |
| 02:51.51 | Epyon | Comments and variable naming is another issue. |
| 02:52.03 | Lukstr | viewing foreign source code always throws me, however |
| 02:52.04 | Epyon | shivers at some mixed language code he's seen |
| 02:52.21 | Epyon | JeffM, it will be delivered as schedules. |
| 02:52.26 | Epyon | scheduled. |
| 02:52.29 | JeffM | Epyon: that is not what I asked |
| 02:52.47 | Epyon | JeffM? |
| 02:52.53 | JeffM | how are they coming? |
| 02:53.01 | JeffM | where are you at on them? |
| 02:53.18 | Epyon | Gathering textures as far as today goes. |
| 02:53.18 | JeffM | it is not the end result I care about, but the path you take |
| 02:53.41 | Epyon | I wanted to aim at something more eye-candy this time, more resembling the newest SIGGRAPH papers. |
| 02:53.54 | JeffM | so you've commited the ones you've found so far? |
| 02:54.03 | Epyon | Unprocessed as yet |
| 02:54.26 | Epyon | JeffM, uh, yeah, I should make a commmit today O.o |
| 02:54.35 | JeffM | you shoudl make multiple commits per day |
| 02:54.41 | JeffM | as you find files just commit them |
| 02:55.09 | Epyon | Unprocessed? That'd be stupid, to commit files you're gonna remove later. |
| 02:55.19 | Epyon | But I get the point. |
| 02:55.21 | JeffM | what processing do they need? |
| 02:56.17 | Epyon | Well, what point is submitting an image like this : http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://k2.csail.mit.edu/raw/gallery/ISCA_2004/incoming/cwo/Prague_rott_building_facade.jpg&imgrefurl=http://k2.csail.mit.edu/raw/gallery/ISCA_2004/incoming/cwo/&h=1704&w=2272&sz=2657&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=oLWUQW_1WTYDNM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuilding%2Bfacade%26imgsz%3Dhuge%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:o |
| 02:56.27 | Epyon | uh |
| 02:56.30 | Epyon | sorry |
| 02:56.30 | JeffM | what license are those under? |
| 02:56.32 | Epyon | http://k2.csail.mit.edu/raw/gallery/ISCA_2004/incoming/cwo/Prague_rott_building_facade.jpg |
| 02:56.45 | Epyon | This one is just to make a point |
| 02:56.53 | JeffM | I am making a point too |
| 02:57.01 | JeffM | what license are the images you are using under? |
| 02:57.26 | Epyon | JeffM, I still have a couple of ones made myself. |
| 02:57.39 | JeffM | why is it SO hard for you just answer questions? |
| 02:57.43 | JeffM | I mean damn man |
| 02:58.07 | spldart | Please be less evasive. |
| 02:58.10 | Epyon | TBH, I have no idea what licence where the ones I used for last years SoC. |
| 02:58.19 | JeffM | then we have to pull them |
| 02:58.23 | JeffM | you can't steal artwork |
| 02:58.54 | JeffM | this is the exact reason I want you to work inteactivly |
| 02:58.57 | Epyon | They're so heavily processed however, that it's hard to tell wether they still have anything original in them. |
| 02:59.06 | JeffM | instead of going off and doing lots of work only to have it be invalid |
| 02:59.15 | JeffM | Epyon: it dosnt' matter, you can't modify work you don't have a license for |
| 02:59.16 | Epyon | Basically to prepare a facade texture I take a reference image, and paint on it using patching. |
| 02:59.20 | JeffM | dude |
| 02:59.31 | JeffM | now I have to pull all the images from your projet |
| 02:59.33 | JeffM | what ones did you make |
| 02:59.35 | Epyon | So it's rather referencing than modifying. |
| 02:59.41 | JeffM | and don't even think about lying |
| 02:59.52 | JeffM | Epyon: if you USED an image, it is the source |
| 02:59.57 | JeffM | no mater how much you processed it |
| 03:00.02 | JeffM | you can't keep doing this |
| 03:00.25 | Epyon | If you look at a photo and do a painting based on it, is it still illegal? |
| 03:00.50 | JeffM | Epyon: that's not what you did, you took a photo and edited it |
| 03:00.56 | Epyon | Nope. |
| 03:00.56 | spldart | That's not how you represented your action earlier |
| 03:00.59 | Epyon | One moment. |
| 03:01.07 | JeffM | Epyon: did you draw it by hand? |
| 03:01.39 | Epyon | I'd link you to that book about doing textures, so you'd understand the process but that link would be illegal :/ |
| 03:02.07 | JeffM | do you use an image editing program to shuffle around parts of the photo to make your texture? |
| 03:02.35 | Epyon | I used images to make PSD brushes for the filler. |
| 03:02.58 | JeffM | and those brushes used pixels from photographs? |
| 03:03.22 | Epyon | actually not pixels but gprocessed and deducted patterns |
| 03:03.50 | JeffM | so groupings of pixels run thru various algorithms |
| 03:04.05 | Epyon | You could say so. |
| 03:04.07 | JeffM | doorr.png looks like a photograph |
| 03:04.13 | JeffM | that you've tweaked |
| 03:04.19 | Epyon | That one is CC 3.0 afaik. |
| 03:04.33 | JeffM | I need licenses for all the current images |
| 03:04.36 | blast007 | what CC? there isn't just one.. |
| 03:04.42 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:04.44 | Epyon | Nope |
| 03:04.55 | JeffM | and if they are CC I have to pull them and put them on the image server |
| 03:05.06 | Epyon | *sigh* |
| 03:05.07 | JeffM | your source package is LGPLed |
| 03:05.12 | JeffM | you cant' relicense CC images |
| 03:05.23 | Epyon | Okay, I can spend the next week recreating all the existing images by hand. |
| 03:05.25 | blast007 | you might not even be able to *modify* CC"ed images |
| 03:05.29 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:05.31 | JeffM | many don't allow it |
| 03:05.33 | blast007 | some of them say you can't modify |
| 03:05.47 | blast007 | and some of they you must provide attribution |
| 03:05.53 | JeffM | Epyon: or forget the eye candy for now untill you get back on track |
| 03:06.05 | JeffM | I'd rather asign some other developer or comunity memember to getting artwork for you |
| 03:06.09 | JeffM | and have you work on real code |
| 03:06.15 | JeffM | since you are so far behind |
| 03:06.22 | Epyon | JeffM, remember the running joke with Winny? |
| 03:06.33 | JeffM | no |
| 03:06.36 | Epyon | That's as far as getting textures goes. |
| 03:06.51 | JeffM | then we use someone else |
| 03:06.54 | Epyon | "Winny, have you got those textures for me?" |
| 03:06.55 | JeffM | I need you to code |
| 03:06.59 | Epyon | "Winny hides" |
| 03:07.08 | JeffM | if you don't have textures, then use placeholders |
| 03:07.09 | spldart | dude |
| 03:07.22 | JeffM | but DO NOT STEAL |
| 03:07.30 | JeffM | we take copyright very seriously |
| 03:07.42 | JeffM | make a placeholder, and make a note of what it should be |
| 03:07.49 | JeffM | then we can work on getting those images for you |
| 03:07.59 | JeffM | hell if you get me a list I can probably freaking draw or render them |
| 03:08.03 | JeffM | but you need to get to work |
| 03:08.12 | JeffM | not google image searching |
| 03:08.39 | Epyon | JeffM, I'm not sure if you understand the process of making textures |
| 03:08.53 | JeffM | Epyon: I'm not sure if you understand the process of development |
| 03:09.13 | Epyon | You take or find a photo, resize and place it, and then use a graphics program to paint over it *completely* |
| 03:09.14 | Lukstr | Epyon: I believe all of these are fair game: http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/texture_colour/ |
| 03:09.32 | JeffM | Epyon: you can only do that for this project if you take the picture |
| 03:09.39 | JeffM | there are other ways to make textures |
| 03:10.39 | JeffM | but still, making images is not where you should be spending your time |
| 03:10.39 | Lukstr | (from scratch is always fun) |
| 03:10.53 | Lukstr | if I had less work to do, I'd offer to make some textures |
| 03:11.11 | JeffM | make me a list of the images you need, with descriptions and I'll get someone on making them |
| 03:11.15 | JeffM | then you won't have to worry about it |
| 03:11.18 | JeffM | this is a team effort |
| 03:11.30 | Epyon | needs to take a walk in the city with the camera |
| 03:11.43 | JeffM | no you need to right some god dmaned code! |
| 03:12.24 | Epyon | You wanted that second ruleset right? |
| 03:12.35 | JeffM | I want you to do something productive |
| 03:12.41 | JeffM | a ruleset seemed to be the simplest |
| 03:12.46 | JeffM | since you've had so much trouble |
| 03:13.02 | JeffM | but if that means you are going to putter around with a camera for a week, then no |
| 03:13.03 | Epyon | Yeah, but making a ruleset and not having the textures for it would be completely unproductive |
| 03:13.04 | JeffM | I don't want a ruleset |
| 03:13.22 | JeffM | if you that means you can define the images you need, make stubs and make the ruleset, then yes I want a ruleset. |
| 03:13.55 | JeffM | you were hired as a programer, not an artist |
| 03:14.06 | Epyon | JeffM, hold my word on the schedule -- if I miss a date then you can shout at me all you want. |
| 03:14.08 | JeffM | there is massive benifit to having others work on the art aspect as they will get to know your tool |
| 03:14.24 | JeffM | Epyon: ya know what, forget it. I'm done trying to help you |
| 03:14.26 | JeffM | good luck |
| 03:14.43 | Epyon | JeffM, I'm done with my problems, so don't worry. |
| 03:14.54 | JeffM | I highly recomend you talk to your mentor |
| 03:15.10 | Epyon | Thanks for trying however, in your cute, however brutal, way :) |
| 03:15.23 | Epyon | Yeah, but I can never catch him because of the timezone D: |
| 03:15.34 | JeffM | that's BS and you know it |
| 03:15.40 | JeffM | the time for your stupid games is over |
| 03:15.48 | JeffM | make an effort or leave |
| 03:21.40 | Epyon | TBH, your attitude is also painful. I could tell you I was hit by a car today while riding my bike, but you'd take it as another excuse, and I know you're sick of those. But paradoxically that;s the truth. And that's the real reason that I couldn't do any commits today, because I've spent 5 hours in the hospital doing stupid checkups. But damn that I try, and damn that I don't want to miss my deadline. |
| 03:22.59 | JeffM | I'm sorry that happend to you |
| 03:23.04 | spldart | Why wouldn't you answer questions about that accident when you first came in the channel and reported it? I was concerned |
| 03:23.18 | JeffM | but as I've said, it's not the deadline that I care about it's the path you take. and you can not seem to understand that |
| 03:23.23 | Epyon | When I came home I did research on the structurew of double linked graphs for zoning and non-axis-aligned streets and found out boost and got strayed away, my fault. |
| 03:23.27 | JeffM | and you are just going into your suborn mode |
| 03:23.31 | JeffM | and we don't need that crap |
| 03:24.27 | Epyon | spldart, because JeffM is sick of my personal problems, and wants to see results and not excuses, and I truly understand him in this case :P |
| 03:24.48 | JeffM | no I don't want to se results, I want to see progress |
| 03:24.57 | JeffM | they are VERY different things |
| 03:24.57 | blast007 | Epyon: but it wasn't Jeff that had asked the question at that time. It was spldart. |
| 03:25.06 | blast007 | so you were just ignoring spldart |
| 03:25.21 | JeffM | he ignores most of the text people write it seems. |
| 03:25.56 | spldart | It seems. |
| 03:25.57 | Epyon | blast007, I don't recall that, I must have left to the hospital then. |
| 03:26.13 | *** join/#bzflag eTa`out (n=etangent@71-211-199-26.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 03:26.44 | spldart | I was concerned as a fellow human and I was concerned as a fellow mentor and how your unfortunate incident may effect your commitments and was prepared to pass the information along. |
| 03:26.56 | Epyon | spldart, thank you. |
| 03:27.29 | spldart | Your welcome but you have more than once clammed up like that. It's a SIGNIFICANT concern. |
| 03:28.26 | Epyon | I know. |
| 03:29.04 | Epyon | I guess I should shut up now and go to sleep, because whatever I'll say now, it'll just make matters worse, and waste your time. |
| 03:29.56 | spldart | After a good nights sleep perhaps some serious attn to coding your project would be in order. For the good of the project and to fullfill your commitments. |
| 03:30.16 | spldart | And glad your ok physically |
| 03:30.45 | Epyon | spldart, that's not sure yet, I'll get the results tommorow. |
| 03:31.03 | Epyon | I still have a (not knowing the word) on my right arm set up. |
| 03:31.30 | Epyon | However it doesn't seem to hinder my typing speed too much, so it should be ok. |
| 03:33.59 | spldart | well.. car on bike. You sound relatively intact. I'd be grateful :) |
| 03:34.30 | Lukstr | Epyon: sling? |
| 03:34.40 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17481 10/trunk/bzwgen/media/bwall.png: update with original artwork using LGPL sources. |
| 03:35.24 | spldart | I remember getting hit and run when I was on my Kawasaki some 15 years ago.. got knocked across 5 lanes of traffic smashing the curb on the other side.. me and my bike. Had a nice story and lotsa road rash to show my coworkers the next day :) |
| 03:37.25 | Epyon | Well, when I showed up home after the accident there was a lot of panic, my face was covered in blood, it must have looked very scary :P |
| 03:38.25 | Epyon | However, the guy in the car immidately rode off, which makes me sure that it was him who made a traffic mistake not me. |
| 03:38.38 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17482 10/trunk/bzwgen/media/bwall2.png: update with original artwork using LGPL sources. |
| 03:38.46 | Epyon | Probably scaredd that he killed ,e/ |
| 03:39.13 | Epyon | JeffM, wait, some of those were made based on my own photos. |
| 03:39.38 | JeffM | then you need to get me a list if what licesnese each image is under |
| 03:39.46 | JeffM | untill you do that, I have to assume they are all stolen |
| 03:39.52 | Epyon | I'll do that tommorow once I wake up, ok? |
| 03:40.15 | JeffM | whatever floats your boat |
| 03:41.14 | Epyon | bwall, and bwall2 -- they look pretty decent -- where did you take them from? |
| 03:41.21 | Epyon | And do you have more? |
| 03:41.53 | JeffM | I made them |
| 03:41.54 | JeffM | by hand |
| 03:41.59 | JeffM | using the bzflag images |
| 03:42.03 | Epyon | grass and mesh are from bz |
| 03:42.08 | JeffM | I know |
| 03:42.16 | JeffM | I am writing up a document for the ones I know the sources |
| 03:42.32 | Epyon | glass, road, roadx roof, whitec, whitec2 were made by hand |
| 03:42.38 | Epyon | without references |
| 03:42.39 | blast007 | hmm, BZWGen requires files from bzflag now? |
| 03:42.51 | blast007 | ./inc/BZWGenerator.h:22:21: error: bzfsAPI.h: No such file or directory |
| 03:42.51 | blast007 | ./inc/BZWGenerator.h:23:26: error: plugin_utils.h: No such file or directory |
| 03:42.57 | Epyon | blast007, only if you compile it as a plugin |
| 03:42.58 | blast007 | or am I building something wrong? |
| 03:43.06 | blast007 | how do I tell it not to do that? |
| 03:43.10 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17483 10/trunk/bzwgen/media/licenses.txt: docs for the images sources. |
| 03:43.17 | Epyon | In globals.h set COMPILE_PLUGIN to 0 |
| 03:43.47 | Epyon | roof is from my own image |
| 03:44.27 | Epyon | About the windows I'll check on them tomorow -- some of them are from my own collection, some from some free libraries off the internet |
| 03:44.53 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17484 10/trunk/bzwgen/media/licenses.txt: docs for the images sources. |
| 03:44.55 | blast007 | ack, don't have bison on the new server ;D |
| 03:44.55 | Epyon | However, as I understand, free != free in your case, so I'll try to retrieve the exact licence |
| 03:45.19 | Epyon | blast007, I'd gladly rewrite that foor the boost pareser generator :P |
| 03:45.37 | JeffM | Epyon: if it's not LGPL, we can still do it, we just have to link it remotely, not include it in the source package. |
| 03:45.46 | Epyon | kk |
| 03:45.49 | JeffM | so we can do CC and the others, we just have to know all the info |
| 03:45.52 | blast007 | Epyon: now I get a build error |
| 03:45.54 | blast007 | let me pastebin |
| 03:45.59 | Epyon | kk |
| 03:46.21 | blast007 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m745eb79b |
| 03:46.32 | Epyon | bwall or bwall2 -- one of those was based on my own photo however |
| 03:46.47 | JeffM | guesses do me no good |
| 03:47.12 | Epyon | blast007, *sigh* I didn't try to compile it standalone since I implemented the plugin code. |
| 03:47.21 | Epyon | I'll check on that tommorow |
| 03:47.24 | blast007 | k |
| 03:47.46 | Epyon | 05:46 in the morning, definitively sleep time. |
| 03:47.58 | blast007 | the plugin is only for 2.99.x, right? |
| 03:48.26 | Epyon | No idea, I used the 2.99.x includes however |
| 03:48.41 | Epyon | Probably only 2.99 because of the hooks I used. |
| 03:48.49 | Epyon | Errorneous would know |
| 03:49.04 | blast007 | yeah, now that I think about it, that's probably right |
| 03:49.22 | Epyon | One moment, I;ll take a quick peek at the code |
| 03:52.07 | Epyon | blast007, are you sure you have the current svn version? |
| 03:52.20 | Epyon | I just compiled in standalone mode and it works |
| 03:52.45 | blast007 | Epyon: it svn ups automatically |
| 03:52.55 | Epyon | Check if bzwgen.cxx has the two following lines: |
| 03:52.58 | Epyon | #include "BZWGenerator.h" |
| 03:53.03 | blast007 | Updated to revision 17484. |
| 03:53.06 | Epyon | BZWGenerator BZWGen; |
| 03:53.32 | blast007 | yup |
| 03:54.31 | Epyon | Now that's .... extremely ... wierd O.o |
| 03:54.43 | blast007 | iirc, it happened on my mac too |
| 03:54.50 | blast007 | or something similar, at least |
| 03:55.18 | blast007 | gcc/g++ 4.1.2 |
| 03:55.19 | Epyon | hell, I'll take a look into it tommorow |
| 03:55.23 | blast007 | debian etch |
| 03:55.34 | Epyon | I'll try compiling it on my linux machine |
| 03:55.40 | Epyon | (yeah I have one now) |
| 03:55.48 | blast007 | k |
| 03:55.51 | Epyon | till then, g'night all |
| 03:56.44 | Epyon | G'night JeffM too, I promise to correct my mistakes. |
| 04:08.15 | Constitution | JeffM: I see we are now using last-known tank positions for shot positions... should we consider last-known tank rotation and velocity for new shots as well? |
| 04:08.39 | JeffM | Constitution: it shoudl be using all that |
| 04:08.45 | JeffM | thats why it uses that doDR state thing |
| 04:09.32 | Constitution | I see now, ok |
| 04:09.49 | JeffM | the idea is that it computes where the tank was when the timestamp was shot |
| 04:17.47 | Constitution | at r17271, in ShotBeginHandler, you changed the check of len < 7 to len < 3... I'm getting len = 3 when I fire. does len < 7 indicate a malformed packet? |
| 04:18.04 | JeffM | I probalby just did the math wrong |
| 04:18.10 | JeffM | check the pack and see how long it is ;) |
| 04:22.23 | Constitution | 4 bytes |
| 04:22.54 | Constitution | I think that's right... 0xbffff1ad |
| 04:24.01 | JeffM | then I just did the math wrong ;) |
| 04:25.11 | Constitution | if len = 3 when the length = 4, isn't it still wrong? |
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| 04:25.41 | JeffM | probably automaticly takes off the playerID |
| 04:25.47 | Constitution | ah ok |
| 04:25.48 | JeffM | as part of the base handler class |
| 04:28.37 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r17485 10/branches/v2_99_shot_branch/src/bzfs/bzfsClientMessages.cxx: Fixed some packet length math. |
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| 04:45.00 | Constitution | I'm getting an infinite loop or some kind of hang somewhere inside glVertex2f() (apparently at gllGetStackPtr()) called from BackgroundRenderer::drawAdvancedGroundReceivers()... does anyone know what that function is supposed to do? |
| 04:45.19 | JeffM | that draws the shot glows |
| 04:47.03 | Constitution | hm |
| 04:47.04 | Constitution | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m518043e5 |
| 04:49.39 | JeffM | probably as it goes thru the shots |
| 04:49.44 | JeffM | just pull it for now |
| 04:49.49 | JeffM | and get the rest working |
| 04:50.30 | Constitution | ok |
| 05:00.28 | Flash | JeffM: I tried to build your shot branch, but it needs the FTGL/Freetype config changes |
| 05:00.50 | Flash | I know you aren't concerned with us Mac developers.... ;-) |
| 05:00.56 | JeffM | flas so put em in :) |
| 05:01.06 | Flash | ok |
| 05:32.26 | Flash | looks like CIA is dead again? |
| 05:34.53 | Constitution | kills CIA-34 |
| 05:34.54 | CIA-34 | dies |
| 05:38.41 | Flash | I must have typo'd the configure command, because it looks like everything is there already |
| 05:39.25 | Flash | any networking guys awake? |
| 05:44.26 | Lukstr | *tumbleweed* |
| 05:51.05 | Lukstr | Flash: figured out a good way to solve indent problems with vi :) |
| 05:51.17 | Flash | cool |
| 05:52.00 | Lukstr | with vim, 'filetype indent on' does so much magic |
| 05:52.16 | Flash | cindent is the main setting |
| 05:52.32 | Flash | it's supposed to be on by default for vim mode; off for vi compatibility |
| 05:52.42 | Flash | I don't know why it isn't being on |
| 05:53.14 | Lukstr | I guess the problem still exists that one cannot manually indent in vi under bzflag's settings |
| 05:53.22 | Lukstr | with the tab key, that is |
| 05:53.51 | Lukstr | setting softtabstop=2 solves that problem, but you can no longer add real tabs :( |
| 05:57.39 | Lukstr | guess I'll map some keys |
| 05:59.11 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r17486 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (Makefile src/BZWGenerator.cxx): |
| 05:59.11 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: Update Makefile so that it builds src/BZWGenerator.cxx |
| 05:59.11 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: Add newline at end of file and modify the printf (format the ints as ints, not chars) to clear up some warnings |
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| 09:13.02 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03lukstr * r17487 10/branches/gsoc_libbzw/src/world/ (BZWorld.cxx BZWorld.h): Templated BZWorld read/write methods, added a bit of empty doxygen markup |
| 09:13.18 | Lukstr | the eyes, they burn. |
| 09:13.20 | Lukstr | Zzz |
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| 13:19.08 | Flash | ep: glad you could find your way to "##bzflag" ;-) |
| 13:20.46 | ep | it was tough :) |
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| 14:13.22 | CIA-34 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1187 10/trunk/src/FTFont/FTBufferFont.cpp: * Prevent issues when strndup is defined as a macro. |
| 14:13.37 | CIA-34 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1188 10/trunk/src/ (FTGL/FTBufferGlyph.h FTGlyph/FTGlyphGlue.cpp): |
| 14:13.37 | CIA-34 | FTGL: * ftglCreateBufferGlyph: do not export FTBufferFont in the C API: we do not |
| 14:13.37 | CIA-34 | FTGL: have easy ways to emulate the FTBuffer object. |
| 14:13.48 | CIA-34 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1189 10/trunk/ (NEWS configure.ac): |
| 14:13.48 | CIA-34 | FTGL: * Updated NEWS file. |
| 14:13.48 | CIA-34 | FTGL: * Mark package as being version 2.1.3~rc5. |
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| 14:34.28 | bugQ | hi there |
| 14:34.40 | bugQ | yep, I was gone a bit longer than I should have been. |
| 14:34.47 | bugQ | something important came up. |
| 14:34.48 | DTRemenak | hey, it's the missing mystery man! :) |
| 14:35.02 | bugQ | I could make excuses, but I'd rather just get to work |
| 14:37.09 | DTRemenak | ok. is there any way we can help? |
| 14:37.32 | bugQ | hmm, I'll ask if something comes up |
| 14:37.39 | DTRemenak | k |
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| 14:40.42 | spldart | Our MIA is back in town! |
| 14:43.34 | spldart | Did you recieve my emails bugQ? |
| 14:43.44 | bugQ | yes |
| 14:44.59 | spldart | Then you know pretty well our (the mentors) position on a student dissappearing for nearly a week. |
| 14:46.50 | bugQ | wait, I didn't see that one. |
| 14:47.29 | DTRemenak | for all the other soc students' reference: if you're going to be gone for a significant period of time, please email your mentor or one of the project admins. no excuses necessary, we know it's summertime and stuff comes up. we just get worried if you disappear. |
| 14:47.53 | bugQ | oh, I misread what you said there.. |
| 14:48.34 | bugQ | yes. very sorry, I don't plan to be gone for so long at a time anymore |
| 14:48.43 | DTRemenak | and google's policiy on mia students is "drop them" - we'd rather not drop any of you :) |
| 14:49.39 | spldart | Well.. Please bugQ. Impress us with your ability to commit usefull code ;-) Considering what you have done so far and how far into the GSoC we are you got some real catching up to do. |
| 14:49.54 | bugQ | duly noted |
| 14:51.19 | spldart | BTW. I'm on vacation fri through mon or tues. Thumper and the other mentors are valuable resources.. Ask if you have any questions. |
| 14:54.12 | Thumper_ | bugQ: welcome back |
| 14:54.30 | bugQ | ahoy. |
| 14:56.43 | CIA-34 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1190 10/trunk/ChangeLog: * Update ChangeLog using svn2cl -i. |
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| 15:24.49 | bugQ | grr! do we really need the c-demo for ftgl? |
| 15:28.12 | bugQ | actually, nevermind that. is there a way to specify where my local ftgl is installed? |
| 15:33.59 | sam | when building bzflag? |
| 15:34.24 | bugQ | ya. |
| 15:35.14 | bugQ | such an option is suspiciously missing from configure --help |
| 15:38.20 | sam | isn't it simply a matter of setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to where your ftgl.pc lies? |
| 15:39.22 | bugQ | oh, thanks |
| 15:40.27 | bugQ | ah, well ftgl.pc isn't where it should be in the first place... |
| 15:40.34 | bugQ | odd |
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| 15:58.26 | blast007 | hi bugQ |
| 15:59.19 | bugQ | yo. |
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| 16:00.15 | blast007 | bugQ: are you having build issues with trunk? |
| 16:00.26 | blast007 | I had just recently tried a build on my ubuntu system |
| 16:00.27 | bugQ | ya, just in ftgl |
| 16:00.35 | blast007 | do you have a system-installed FTGL? |
| 16:01.18 | bugQ | ya, it didn't see it because macports didn't put certain things where they should be... |
| 16:01.18 | whodaman- | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.28 | blast007 | bugQ: ah |
| 16:01.33 | whodaman- | Meh. |
| 16:01.54 | whodaman- | Can't identify -.- |
| 16:04.03 | Thumper_ | whodaman-: works for me |
| 16:04.14 | Thumper_ | just had to wait a long time |
| 16:04.18 | whodaman- | Thumper_, it's back - took 11 tries, lol |
| 16:04.38 | whodaman- | I know, us young ones are *so* impatient. |
| 16:04.44 | Thumper_ | heh |
| 16:04.49 | whodaman- | ;) |
| 16:05.00 | blast007 | *reconnect* darn! *reconnect* blast! *reconnect* gah! ... |
| 16:05.15 | whodaman- | blast007, in german, yeah :P |
| 16:05.19 | blast007 | hehe |
| 16:06.46 | blast007 | bugQ: you could try adding one or both of these to configure: --enable-ftgl-build --enable-freetype-build |
| 16:06.52 | blast007 | to force it to use ours |
| 16:07.19 | blast007 | not 100% sure all of the configure 'fun' has been fixed in that regard, but worth a try if you can't get the system ones working |
| 16:08.00 | bugQ | the problem is in the ftgl in trunk... |
| 16:09.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:09.39 | blast007 | bugQ: are you getting a specific error? |
| 16:13.01 | bugQ | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d5d1d135e |
| 16:14.24 | blast007 | bugQ: looks like it's using your local freetype2 |
| 16:14.35 | bugQ | ya. |
| 16:14.53 | blast007 | is that with both of those configure options I have above? |
| 16:15.09 | bugQ | no. |
| 16:15.37 | blast007 | try that |
| 16:15.49 | blast007 | we might have newer/different stuff in our tree |
| 16:16.00 | blast007 | build system mods, etc |
| 16:24.45 | bugQ | same error. |
| 16:27.24 | blast007 | heh.. |
| 16:27.53 | blast007 | were you able to build before? |
| 16:29.36 | JeffM | Erroneous may have more info on it as he's been banging on ftgl |
| 16:30.03 | bugQ | I was able to build last month, I think |
| 16:31.29 | blast007 | did you have a system freetype installed then as well? |
| 16:31.34 | JeffM | can you build if you disable the server? |
| 16:31.43 | JeffM | disable the client I mean? |
| 16:31.51 | JeffM | techincaly all you need is the server for now |
| 16:31.59 | bugQ | blast007: i believe so |
| 16:32.08 | bugQ | JeffM: yes, I'll try that |
| 16:32.26 | blast007 | either that, or remove the system one :) |
| 16:32.30 | JeffM | yeah ether or |
| 16:33.10 | blast007 | (or at least rename their little *-config app that they use to get the lib/include stuff) |
| 16:36.34 | bugQ | wow, macports is really screwed up... |
| 16:36.54 | JeffM | are you using fink? |
| 16:37.16 | bugQ | no. |
| 16:37.24 | JeffM | good |
| 16:37.43 | JeffM | do you have a diffrent version of any of the libs then apple ships? |
| 16:38.00 | bugQ | which libs? |
| 16:38.05 | JeffM | any ;) |
| 16:38.14 | JeffM | have you installed anything else from a thrid party? |
| 16:38.25 | bugQ | well, yes. from macports. |
| 16:38.35 | JeffM | that is probably your problem |
| 16:38.40 | JeffM | we assume apple standard stuff |
| 16:38.48 | bugQ | whee |
| 16:41.51 | bugQ | that makes things simple. I'm not using this machine! |
| 16:42.42 | JeffM | but macs are "better"! ;) |
| 16:43.24 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 16:43.27 | bugQ | har |
| 16:43.33 | bugQ | better for some things... |
| 16:43.48 | Lukstr | morning all |
| 16:43.54 | JeffM | heh |
| 16:43.56 | JeffM | word up G |
| 16:43.57 | bugQ | well hi there. |
| 16:44.06 | Lukstr | nothing like a house coming down to wake up you in the morning O.O |
| 16:44.13 | bugQ | um, wow. |
| 16:44.20 | Lukstr | two doors over |
| 16:44.27 | Lukstr | it's like mini-earthquake central here |
| 16:47.25 | JeffM | Janie's got a gun. whole world's come undone. |
| 16:56.19 | Lukstr | you and your music |
| 16:56.54 | JeffM | you don't want me to sing what's currently on |
| 16:57.00 | Lukstr | haha |
| 16:57.02 | JeffM | you are probably too young to even know what it is |
| 16:57.08 | Lukstr | I know what it is |
| 16:57.13 | Lukstr | good song |
| 16:57.14 | Lukstr | :P |
| 16:57.18 | JeffM | you know who the mighty orbots are? |
| 16:57.23 | JeffM | oh that song was over long ago |
| 16:57.51 | Lukstr | lol |
| 16:58.00 | Lukstr | Isn't that some Transformers knock off? |
| 16:58.15 | Lukstr | or Voltron? |
| 16:58.18 | JeffM | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLcJXR7twoQ |
| 16:58.37 | JeffM | voltron is a travesty |
| 16:59.40 | Lukstr | well, yeah |
| 17:00.26 | Lukstr | okay, just transformers then |
| 17:02.13 | Lukstr | this show hurts my brain |
| 17:02.13 | JeffM | I Have that song too |
| 17:02.22 | JeffM | done by black lab |
| 17:02.59 | JeffM | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQuXAf0cKc |
| 17:06.50 | Lukstr | you know what show was awesome? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH2A_gfWgWw&feature=related |
| 17:07.09 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@222.5.gr6.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 17:07.18 | JeffM | puppets |
| 17:08.04 | Lukstr | awesome puppets |
| 17:10.35 | Lukstr | oh |
| 17:10.41 | Lukstr | good job distracting me :) |
| 17:10.48 | JeffM | get to work |
| 17:10.52 | JeffM | hows your framework? |
| 17:11.05 | Lukstr | workin on it, pretty sparse right now |
| 17:11.22 | JeffM | check in what you got :) |
| 17:11.23 | Lukstr | I don't understand how BZWReader actually reads in through an istream |
| 17:11.45 | JeffM | you should not need that for your basic framework |
| 17:12.50 | Lukstr | hm |
| 17:13.52 | Erroneous | Lukstr: what do you not understand? |
| 17:14.18 | Lukstr | it appears to use cURLManager to read it in? |
| 17:14.25 | Erroneous | no, just to get the stream |
| 17:15.34 | Lukstr | well, does the current BZWReader(std::istream &in) actually do anything? |
| 17:15.43 | Erroneous | yup |
| 17:15.53 | Lukstr | where? :S |
| 17:15.56 | Erroneous | that's how we read from blobs |
| 17:16.51 | Erroneous | after creation of a BZWReader, you call defineWorldFromFile on it |
| 17:16.53 | Lukstr | oh, so I guess it just initializes what it needs, leaves it hanging around for defineWorldFromFile() ? |
| 17:16.54 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 17:16.55 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 17:17.10 | Erroneous | so you can basically leave out the default constructor in libbzw |
| 17:17.21 | Erroneous | just take an istream |
| 17:17.26 | Lukstr | d'oh :P |
| 17:17.36 | Lukstr | so you think that should be part of the constructor? |
| 17:17.42 | Erroneous | and do all the defineWorldFromFile stuff directly in the constructor |
| 17:17.47 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 17:17.58 | Lukstr | I was planning on doing that with just BZWorld::read |
| 17:18.02 | Erroneous | because your BZWorld will also be the equivalent of/replacement for WorldInfo |
| 17:18.31 | Lukstr | yes |
| 17:18.49 | Erroneous | it may also be useful to have a default constructor with an API to build the world manually (e.g. for our existing random world generator, and the plugin API) |
| 17:19.02 | Erroneous | but you don't really need to worry about that yet |
| 17:19.27 | Lukstr | so for now, just an istream constructor? |
| 17:19.41 | Erroneous | yeah...if you have a default constructor, just have it create an empty world |
| 17:20.00 | Lukstr | that is ze plan |
| 17:23.17 | Erroneous | and you're welcome to actually use extraction operators instead of the silly readToken stuff too ;) |
| 17:23.34 | Lukstr | yeah I will probably disregard most of the current stuff |
| 17:23.48 | Erroneous | bzwreader used to be all FILE*, and it was not really rewritten when we started using iostreams |
| 17:24.06 | Lukstr | heh |
| 17:28.12 | bugQ | uh oh... configure: error: c-ares library defective or too old |
| 17:28.18 | bugQ | it's not even installed! |
| 17:28.26 | bugQ | (this is on debian, btw) |
| 17:28.45 | Lukstr | does configure want to build it itself? |
| 17:29.15 | bugQ | checking whether to enable c-ares... yes |
| 17:29.15 | bugQ | configure: c-ares may not work properly with ipv6 |
| 17:29.16 | bugQ | checking that c-ares is good and recent enough... no |
| 17:29.18 | bugQ | configure: error: c-ares library defective or too old |
| 17:29.20 | bugQ | configure: error: ./configure failed for src/other/curl |
| 17:29.23 | bugQ | that's all it says. |
| 17:29.38 | Lukstr | weird |
| 17:29.56 | JeffM | do you have a system libCURL? |
| 17:31.00 | bugQ | this error came before and after I just installed libcurl |
| 17:37.13 | AAA_awright | brlcad: I didn't know autogen.sh had it's own sf.net project :) Neat little website. Do you really need to tar up a single file? or is -zxvf just too familiar to do anything else? |
| 17:38.19 | AAA_awright | Permissions. nvm. |
| 17:38.26 | CIA-34 | mmokit: 03JeffM2501 * r24 10/trunk/mmokit/graphics/ (inc/drawables.h src/drawables.cpp): allow use of materials or textures dynamically |
| 17:42.26 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@68-27-145-81.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:42.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 18:10.45 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-119-173-104.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:20.45 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17488 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerMenu.cxx: initialize server count |
| 18:25.03 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT` (n=etangent@71-211-203-172.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 18:26.20 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17489 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/Player.cxx: initialize allowed actions bitfield |
| 18:35.31 | *** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@074-050-155-058.plateautel.net) |
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| 18:54.45 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17490 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ShotStats.cxx: release ShotStats' LocalFontFace when destroying ShotStats. |
| 19:09.21 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88.134.232.226) |
| 19:17.18 | brlcad | AAA_awright: yep, mostly just to get the exec bit and iirc the server has a bad mime type on .sh files |
| 19:17.43 | AAA_awright | it shouldn't care for .sh.gz |
| 19:27.40 | blast007 | hmm, there's a long delay going from any menu to the main menu in trunk |
| 19:28.00 | blast007 | this is on my little mini |
| 19:28.20 | AAA_awright | blast007: Do you know what sort of logic BZFlag runs when rendering the main menu? It checks if you are connected to a server doesn't it? |
| 19:28.51 | JeffM | AAA_awright, main menu dosn't |
| 19:28.53 | blast007 | going to/from other menus is fine, but when I go to the main menu, it takes 11 seconds |
| 19:29.03 | JeffM | slap a breakpoint see what's up |
| 19:29.13 | JeffM | maybe it's blowing out the fonts and rebuilding the textures |
| 19:29.32 | blast007 | ah, or I can run in a window |
| 19:29.45 | blast007 | seems like there was a *lot* of FontManager output on the terminal |
| 19:30.02 | JeffM | bets a state was getting flushed when it shouldn't |
| 19:31.06 | blast007 | oh sure, and it doesn't do it when I'm windowed ;D |
| 19:34.33 | *** join/#bzflag tj13820 (n=tj13820@c-71-236-81-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:34.57 | tj13820 | is RedHat enterprise linux good for running a bzflag server? i'm interested in security. |
| 19:35.11 | JeffM | a server is prety much a server |
| 19:35.27 | blast007 | okay, it creates 7 different fonts when I navigate to the main menu screen from the Join Game menu |
| 19:35.41 | JeffM | if it's got the libs and can build our stuff, and you can manage it then that should be fine for you |
| 19:35.47 | tj13820 | yes, i have run a BZFS server on 20 different distros of linux, and learned and liked each one, but none has the security i like. |
| 19:35.58 | JeffM | blast007, yeah shounds like they are getting flushed. |
| 19:36.13 | JeffM | tj13820, bzfs will probably not care what distro you run |
| 19:36.16 | blast007 | it's generating different sizes too |
| 19:36.20 | blast007 | and some of the sizes twice |
| 19:36.29 | JeffM | blast007, yeah I'm guessing the entire face is being flushed |
| 19:36.30 | blast007 | and it didn't do it at lower resolutions |
| 19:36.40 | tj13820 | JeffM: i know that, i just want to know someone's opinion on RHEL's security/compatibilty |
| 19:36.56 | blast007 | maybe my video ram is filling up at this res? (1680x1050 and 1920x1200) |
| 19:37.05 | JeffM | tj13820, that is a loaded qustion, better suited to OS specific channels ;) |
| 19:37.12 | JeffM | #distrowars maybe ;) |
| 19:37.32 | JeffM | blast007, the mini has 32 megs |
| 19:37.46 | tj13820 | JeffM: that's where i'm going now. thank you |
| 19:37.51 | whodaman- | lol? |
| 19:37.59 | JeffM | tj13820, that was a joke |
| 19:38.31 | JeffM | blast007, you are using close to 27 megs for your buffers in a worst case |
| 19:38.50 | JeffM | assuming front back and depth are all 32bit |
| 19:39.32 | JeffM | (XxYx4)*3 |
| 19:40.00 | blast007 | I'm at "millions" for the color depth, but that might do 32-bit |
| 19:40.06 | JeffM | that's 32bit |
| 19:40.15 | blast007 | k |
| 19:40.17 | JeffM | well 24 |
| 19:40.34 | JeffM | and I'd bet the hardware will pad the 24 bit pixels into 32bit words |
| 19:40.39 | tj13820 | JeffM: yes, but a helpful one ;-) #rhel is giving me some information |
| 19:40.45 | JeffM | your depth buffer may be 16bit |
| 19:40.54 | JeffM | so that'll get you closer to 25 megs |
| 19:41.01 | JeffM | but still it's not a small number |
| 19:41.02 | blast007 | I verified in the system info that it's at 32-bit |
| 19:41.29 | JeffM | *4 |
| 19:41.32 | JeffM | ww |
| 19:41.42 | blast007 | oh well, I'm resume later, the storm is making another pass... |
| 19:41.48 | JeffM | a single 32bit frame buffer at that size is 8.7 megs |
| 19:42.31 | JeffM | with a 16 bit depth buffer you'd be using 22 megs |
| 19:42.44 | JeffM | that's only 10 left for textures and stuff |
| 19:42.48 | blast007 | heh, and bzflag crashed when I exited ;) so I'll have to run it through GDB |
| 19:42.52 | JeffM | and with mip mapping that can get eaten VERY fast |
| 19:42.56 | blast007 | yeah.. |
| 19:43.31 | JeffM | a 512x512 texture with alpha and no mips takes up a full meg |
| 19:44.26 | blast007 | hehe.. |
| 20:03.11 | *** part/#bzflag tj13820 (n=tj13820@c-71-236-81-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:06.38 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17491 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (JoinMenu.cxx JoinMenu.h): remove unused variable |
| 20:10.33 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-255-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:36.41 | CIA-34 | mmokit: 03JeffM2501 * r25 10/trunk/mmokit/ (6 files in 4 dirs): |
| 20:36.41 | CIA-34 | mmokit: make the attribute system generic |
| 20:36.41 | CIA-34 | mmokit: add world storage for materials |
| 20:36.41 | CIA-34 | mmokit: pass materials to material system for draw worlds. |
| 20:38.57 | Lukstr | hah, you added mmokit to CIA? |
| 20:39.11 | JeffM | so it seems |
| 20:39.26 | Lukstr | for what purpose are you making it? |
| 20:39.31 | JeffM | puttering! |
| 20:39.53 | JeffM | I have side projects I putter on and sometimes code form them goes into bzflag |
| 20:40.07 | JeffM | the font managers came from such projects |
| 20:40.19 | Lukstr | puttering is good |
| 20:40.52 | JeffM | mostly just trying to see derived worlds are viable |
| 20:41.10 | JeffM | so far it's held up decently |
| 20:42.13 | JeffM | I've got World, CollidableWorld and DrawableWorld |
| 20:42.21 | JeffM | now I'm going to try EditableWorld |
| 20:43.37 | JeffM | drawable world worked out well, but that may just be because I have a better drawables system then bzflag does |
| 20:45.33 | Lukstr | heh |
| 20:51.13 | Lukstr | should I use forward class declarations like BZWReader does? |
| 20:51.26 | JeffM | such as? |
| 20:51.55 | Lukstr | I'm going to plot out a WorldObject class |
| 20:52.10 | JeffM | you mean like class MYCLASS; |
| 20:52.12 | Lukstr | yes |
| 20:52.13 | JeffM | before you define it? |
| 20:52.18 | JeffM | I only do that if I have to |
| 20:52.22 | Lukstr | well |
| 20:52.24 | JeffM | and I feel bad that I have to |
| 20:52.51 | Lukstr | people do forward class declarations for different reasons, but you need not include the header if you do so |
| 20:52.55 | Lukstr | BZWReader does it |
| 20:52.57 | Lukstr | makes me angry |
| 20:53.06 | Lukstr | it's "faster" but who cares |
| 20:53.48 | JeffM | I see no reason to do it |
| 20:53.53 | Lukstr | excellent. |
| 20:54.00 | JeffM | just because the current class does it, dosn't mean you have to |
| 20:54.04 | JeffM | unless you have good reason |
| 20:54.10 | Lukstr | just making sure there wasn't some secret BZFlag dev requirment ;) |
| 20:54.11 | JeffM | that's the point of rewriting it |
| 20:54.16 | JeffM | no |
| 20:54.25 | JeffM | all our requirements are in the devinfo file |
| 20:54.29 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 20:54.35 | Lukstr | brackets make me angry :) |
| 20:54.40 | JeffM | brackets? |
| 20:54.47 | JeffM | [] ? |
| 20:54.49 | JeffM | or {} |
| 20:55.48 | Lukstr | if(statement){\nblah\n} |
| 20:55.48 | Lukstr | brackets not matching |
| 20:55.48 | Lukstr | vertically |
| 20:55.48 | JeffM | yeah, well you've seen how much I keep to THAT ;) |
| 20:55.48 | Lukstr | haha |
| 20:55.48 | Thumper_ | smacks JeffM |
| 20:55.56 | JeffM | defects Thumper_ 's smack with a subtle wave |
| 20:56.05 | Lukstr | rides the wave. |
| 20:56.11 | Thumper_ | my smack defected? to which country? |
| 20:56.21 | JeffM | Thumper_, it now works for me |
| 20:56.26 | JeffM | to use as I choose at a later date |
| 20:56.31 | Thumper_ | hides |
| 20:56.40 | JeffM | I've set it up in the witness prottection program here |
| 20:56.49 | JeffM | it's very happy in it's new home |
| 20:56.55 | JeffM | free satalite TV |
| 20:58.05 | JeffM | one day I'll get us to use BSD style brackets, instead of K&R, one day :) |
| 20:58.43 | Lukstr | secretely sanitizes braces |
| 20:58.44 | Erroneous | in your dreams :P |
| 20:59.02 | JeffM | Erroneous, dreams are where the future is born ;) |
| 20:59.08 | Erroneous | touche |
| 20:59.13 | Thumper_ | rearranges JeffM's whitespace |
| 20:59.23 | Lukstr | oh dear |
| 20:59.26 | JeffM | my whitespace should be ok now, thanks to Erroneous |
| 20:59.35 | JeffM | assuming I installed extabsettings again |
| 20:59.57 | Erroneous | woot |
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| 21:00.08 | JeffM | tis very handy |
| 21:00.24 | Erroneous | someone wasn't set up right for ws though. KingOfCamelot I think. |
| 21:00.30 | JeffM | shadow warn and unused params would be ncie too |
| 21:00.34 | Erroneous | he checked in a file with lots of tabs |
| 21:00.48 | JeffM | Erroneous, then sounds like an ass kicking is in order ;) |
| 21:00.52 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 21:00.57 | Erroneous | dunno what editor he was using though |
| 21:01.00 | Thumper_ | There's some plugin Makefile.am files with CRLF line endings too... but I didn't bother fixing those |
| 21:01.05 | JeffM | many also didn't do autoprops |
| 21:01.09 | Erroneous | just need to talk to him |
| 21:01.19 | Erroneous | he got that part right |
| 21:01.23 | JeffM | good |
| 21:01.27 | JeffM | Wyk3d didn't |
| 21:01.38 | JeffM | Thumper_, what ones? the properties may not be set correctly on them |
| 21:01.41 | Erroneous | hasn't checked Lukstr's yet |
| 21:02.11 | JeffM | it's possible I didn't have autoprops on all my systems, as I've been reinstalling a lot lately |
| 21:02.20 | Lukstr | checked my whats? |
| 21:02.30 | JeffM | autpropts |
| 21:02.39 | Lukstr | should be okay... |
| 21:02.42 | JeffM | are your new files set to native line ending, etc.. |
| 21:02.57 | Erroneous | yeah, his look good |
| 21:03.03 | Thumper_ | fastmap, mapchange, unrealCTF,webstats,webReport,chatlog,modeltool/cv8 |
| 21:03.04 | JeffM | yep |
| 21:03.04 | Lukstr | ~vim++ |
| 21:03.07 | Thumper_ | vc8* |
| 21:03.22 | JeffM | Thumper_, yeah those are all mine :) |
| 21:03.26 | Thumper_ | I figured :) |
| 21:03.36 | Thumper_ | I can if them if you want |
| 21:03.40 | JeffM | k |
| 21:03.41 | Thumper_ | dunno how to set properties though |
| 21:03.47 | JeffM | good time to learn then |
| 21:03.48 | Erroneous | ifs Thumper_ |
| 21:04.25 | JeffM | he meant "independently fix" |
| 21:04.36 | JeffM | you have to keep up on the terms Erroneous ;) |
| 21:04.42 | Thumper_ | s/if/fix/ :-P |
| 21:04.44 | Erroneous | heh :) |
| 21:05.24 | Thumper_ | just wasn't sure you wanted CRLF line changes marking the entire file modified |
| 21:05.35 | Thumper_ | not that Makefile.am files are all that interesting/busy |
| 21:05.55 | Erroneous | Thumper_: check out "svn help propset" |
| 21:06.12 | Erroneous | also propget, propedit, propdel if you're interested |
| 21:06.53 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 21:06.54 | Erroneous | and *all* files need to have eol-style:native unless they're special (like vcproj's) |
| 21:08.27 | JeffM | I think even those can be native now |
| 21:08.49 | JeffM | it's just XML |
| 21:09.32 | Erroneous | yeah, but there's no point to it. there may be tools which read them that are picky. |
| 21:09.41 | JeffM | mayhaps |
| 21:09.51 | Erroneous | vc itself no longer seems to care |
| 21:09.57 | JeffM | that's a good thing |
| 21:09.58 | Erroneous | haven't tried vcbuild |
| 21:10.11 | JeffM | does the superduper care? ;) |
| 21:10.17 | Erroneous | only if vcbuild does |
| 21:10.36 | Erroneous | the internal stuff I do with it is all regex-based |
| 21:10.43 | Erroneous | so no, it doesn't care, itself |
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| 21:10.56 | Erroneous | hugs regexes |
| 21:11.01 | JeffM | maybe cmake or something does |
| 21:11.12 | Lukstr | regexes > .* |
| 21:11.28 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 21:11.54 | Thumper_ | regexes are great... but you can write lots of write-only code with them too |
| 21:12.01 | Erroneous | very true |
| 21:12.15 | Erroneous | very handy for write-once/run-once stuff though |
| 21:12.39 | Erroneous | and it's possible to write them legibly |
| 21:13.14 | Thumper_ | yes but that's harder ... and most people don't bother |
| 21:13.20 | Thumper_ | (from what I've seen) |
| 21:14.20 | Lukstr | should I put classes such as a World Object outside of BZWorld (i.e., BZWorld, BZWorldObject) or inside (i.e., BZWorld::Object or something) |
| 21:14.34 | Lukstr | leaning towards former |
| 21:14.54 | Erroneous | nested classes are questionable on sgi iirc |
| 21:14.58 | JeffM | I tend to only put them inside if they are only used by the internal class |
| 21:15.01 | Erroneous | so try not to nest unless necessary |
| 21:15.24 | JeffM | and Class1::class2:class3 object; sucks ;) |
| 21:15.28 | L4m3r | yeah, that SGI compatibility sold us a lot of shirts! |
| 21:15.30 | Erroneous | if you really feel the need you can namespace the entire library |
| 21:15.39 | JeffM | L4m3r, 5 |
| 21:15.45 | Lukstr | I was going to say, I feel that BZFlag lacks namespacing :) |
| 21:15.46 | JeffM | bets they just run linux now |
| 21:15.51 | L4m3r | JeffM: didn't they buy like 9 or 10? |
| 21:15.53 | Erroneous | JeffM: *at least* 5 ;) |
| 21:15.59 | JeffM | L4m3r, no, 5 or 6 |
| 21:16.02 | L4m3r | aww |
| 21:16.04 | JeffM | I think it was 6 |
| 21:16.05 | Erroneous | maybe one of the random orders was an sgi fellow :) |
| 21:16.11 | JeffM | it was only one box |
| 21:16.23 | Lukstr | JeffM / Erroneous: Is there a tracking order pour moi shirt? |
| 21:16.25 | JeffM | Spldart has spent more money then SGI |
| 21:16.30 | L4m3r | hehe |
| 21:16.38 | JeffM | Lukstr, it was emailed to your paypal email |
| 21:16.41 | Erroneous | Lukstr: yeah, our namespacing is very messy |
| 21:16.57 | Lukstr | should I lead by example, then? |
| 21:16.57 | JeffM | proably still says "billing info received" |
| 21:16.58 | L4m3r | some of the mail from the store gets spamflagged in gmail |
| 21:17.14 | JeffM | L4m3r, the trackng comes from paypal not the store |
| 21:17.19 | Erroneous | you're welcome to do so |
| 21:17.20 | L4m3r | oh |
| 21:17.21 | JeffM | we don't actualy see the tracking info on internationals |
| 21:17.31 | JeffM | I just get a customs receipt |
| 21:17.46 | JeffM | I print the labels via paypal |
| 21:17.49 | Lukstr | JeffM: ah okay |
| 21:17.53 | JeffM | so we can pay for them from our funds |
| 21:18.09 | JeffM | ruskie, you still want that hat? |
| 21:18.50 | Erroneous | hm, lemme rephrase that...*I* have no problem with namespacing. might want to talk to the other devs about it though ;) |
| 21:18.58 | JeffM | if all your classes start with BZ, I don't see the need for a namespace |
| 21:19.03 | Lukstr | Erroneous: hah, ah |
| 21:19.08 | JeffM | but it's somewaht bikeshed to me |
| 21:19.08 | Lukstr | JeffM: I'd prefer if they didn't :D |
| 21:19.14 | JeffM | then namespace it |
| 21:19.19 | Lukstr | Delicious. |
| 21:19.41 | Erroneous | BZW or something would be a fine namespace. shorter is good. |
| 21:19.58 | Lukstr | Yessir |
| 21:20.01 | JeffM | the only problem I have with namespaces is you can fall into the trap of using common words that may conflict with other namespaces, so if you use them in the same file, you can't do a using |
| 21:20.09 | JeffM | yeah short better |
| 21:20.11 | Thumper_ | JeffM: I got the tracking info _after_ the shirts arrived :) |
| 21:20.16 | Lukstr | using using is ugly anyways |
| 21:20.25 | JeffM | Thumper_, yeah USPS isn't great about sending them out. |
| 21:20.29 | Erroneous | totally agree about using being ugly |
| 21:20.35 | Erroneous | that's why short is better :) |
| 21:20.39 | Lukstr | Yep |
| 21:20.58 | JeffM | I'm not a fan or typing the same thing over and over again ;) |
| 21:21.23 | BinarySpike | JeffM, use vim! |
| 21:21.26 | L4m3r | more readable and less ambiguous without using, though |
| 21:21.27 | Erroneous | if everything is properly modularized you should not have to type it that much |
| 21:21.28 | JeffM | BinarySpike, no |
| 21:21.45 | BinarySpike | lol |
| 21:21.53 | L4m3r | using "using" undermines some of the usefulness of namespaces :P |
| 21:22.02 | JeffM | L4m3r, depends on what you are doing |
| 21:22.06 | Lukstr | BinarySpike: what benefit does vim pose |
| 21:22.08 | JeffM | if you know you are cool, then use it |
| 21:22.26 | JeffM | but yes explicit is better |
| 21:22.31 | L4m3r | yeah... I've got no problem using it in something small like a plugin |
| 21:22.37 | BinarySpike | Lukstr, vim have this like super copy and paste thing |
| 21:22.45 | BinarySpike | kinda like f3 on DOS |
| 21:22.53 | Lukstr | I use vim, not sure what you're referring to |
| 21:22.58 | L4m3r | I hate vim... and emacs... |
| 21:23.12 | BinarySpike | never tried emacs |
| 21:23.13 | Lukstr | L4m3r_: Operating System is ... ? |
| 21:23.14 | JeffM | autocomplete FTW |
| 21:23.19 | Lukstr | JeffM: NO. |
| 21:23.21 | Lukstr | :) |
| 21:23.22 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 21:23.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 21:23.24 | L4m3r_ | Lukstr: Linux |
| 21:23.36 | Lukstr | L4m3r: what do you use? kate? |
| 21:24.04 | Lukstr | don't hurt me and say nano or something |
| 21:24.17 | BinarySpike | what about pico? we are forgetting pico :( |
| 21:24.25 | Erroneous | is a gvim guy, where possible |
| 21:24.31 | Lukstr | vi -g -p baby |
| 21:24.47 | L4m3r | kate or Kwrite, and sometimes MSVS |
| 21:24.49 | L4m3r | lol nano |
| 21:24.51 | L4m3r | no, I don't like command line editing |
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| 21:24.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:24.57 | L4m3r | I only use nano to edit C++ (or bash) over SSH |
| 21:25.07 | Lukstr | L4m3r: VI would be the solution there |
| 21:25.16 | Lukstr | you can get away without knowing much |
| 21:25.30 | L4m3r | heh |
| 21:25.33 | Lukstr | I still have much to learn. Waiting for a VI book to arrive :) |
| 21:25.53 | BinarySpike | pfft books |
| 21:26.04 | Lukstr | handy for reading in meatspace |
| 21:26.18 | JeffM | just hits F7 and watches it all go by |
| 21:26.21 | BinarySpike | Unless you have a laptop and wireless cell card? |
| 21:26.45 | BinarySpike | Not sure the card will work in canada though |
| 21:27.01 | Lukstr | which card? |
| 21:27.02 | Lukstr | 3G? |
| 21:27.18 | L4m3r | VS is nice, though last time I used it, I was being frustrated by the Windows ZPI |
| 21:27.21 | L4m3r | API* |
| 21:27.31 | Lukstr | brb, dinner and some spray paint |
| 21:28.08 | L4m3r | goes to take a final exam for Electrical Enginnering |
| 21:28.12 | Erroneous | win32 is not terrible, mostly. COM is far worse. |
| 21:28.17 | L4m3r | engineering* |
| 21:28.18 | BinarySpike | wishes L4m3r luck! |
| 21:28.33 | L4m3r | is SO boned |
| 21:28.42 | L4m3r | I suck rocks at EE |
| 21:28.53 | Erroneous | what kind of ee class? |
| 21:29.01 | L4m3r | circuit analysis |
| 21:29.04 | Erroneous | ah, fun |
| 21:29.08 | BinarySpike | neato! |
| 21:29.08 | L4m3r | not as bad as semiconductors, but still |
| 21:29.12 | BinarySpike | I do a lot of cable running at work |
| 21:29.34 | BinarySpike | and terminating and stuff |
| 21:29.36 | L4m3r | this class is about resistors, capacitors, inductors, op amps, etc |
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| 21:29.46 | BinarySpike | friend took the top of his finger off with one of the impact tools |
| 21:29.51 | L4m3r | and absurdly complex combinations thereof |
| 21:30.00 | BinarySpike | fun :) |
| 21:30.05 | L4m3r | >_< |
| 21:30.24 | L4m3r | oh well, once it's over I will be DONE... and I can chill and watch the game. |
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| 22:12.06 | JeffM | L4m3r, chill with chillin? |
| 22:13.21 | Thumper_ | Lukstr: so what's spray paint taste like? :-P |
| 22:13.45 | spldart | Tastes like grroooooovvyyyy |
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| 22:24.26 | JeffM | bugQ, how are you doing? |
| 22:25.27 | bugQ | bleh, trying to come up with something that trunk will build on |
| 22:25.35 | JeffM | still? |
| 22:25.40 | JeffM | it should not be that hard |
| 22:25.48 | JeffM | perhaps JBdiGriz can help you with your mac issues. |
| 22:28.31 | CIA-34 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r17492 10/trunk/bzflag/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Whitespace - CRLF to LF line endings |
| 22:29.12 | JBdiGriz | I wonder why that didn't highlight |
| 22:29.35 | JBdiGriz | I'm sure I can find someone around here who can help with any Mac issues. |
| 22:30.04 | JeffM | he is having issues with freetype and FTGL |
| 22:30.53 | JBdiGriz | I remember I had to add a line to the configure for freetype |
| 22:32.35 | JBdiGriz | ./configure --enable-freetype-build |
| 22:33.22 | bugQ | I did that to no effect |
| 22:33.40 | JBdiGriz | What was the error |
| 22:33.56 | bugQ | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d5d1d135e |
| 22:35.20 | bugQ | all right, I broke my webhost's hyperVM process |
| 22:36.46 | JBdiGriz | I'm a bit suspicious that you didn't clean up the build before redoing autogen and configure. I'm trying that now. |
| 22:38.09 | bugQ | I tried that too, that was just an example build |
| 22:43.50 | JBdiGriz | bzfs is built with the current sources, and it's currently compiling bzflag. What tree are you working from? |
| 22:44.48 | bugQ | just trunk/bzflag... |
| 22:46.32 | JBdiGriz | Try a make clean, svn update, autogen.sh, configure --enable-freetype-build |
| 22:46.49 | bugQ | I just did |
| 22:46.50 | JBdiGriz | It all compiled for me |
| 22:47.01 | JBdiGriz | What did you get this time? |
| 22:47.05 | bugQ | same. |
| 22:47.28 | JBdiGriz | Not possible, it was clearly not cleaned before you ran it in the pastebin |
| 22:47.54 | bugQ | the same error, I meant. of course it rebuilt some things |
| 22:48.41 | JBdiGriz | I'd like to see the sequence of errors you are getting after cleaning, updating and reconfiguring. |
| 22:49.08 | JBdiGriz | Something else is missing from the pastebin. You might try checking your config.log for errors as well. |
| 22:51.01 | JBdiGriz | What version of gcc are you using? |
| 22:51.18 | bugQ | 4.0.1 |
| 22:51.33 | JBdiGriz | That's the same I have here. |
| 22:51.59 | JBdiGriz | You can try getting a completely new tree and see if the error remains. |
| 22:52.23 | JBdiGriz | If it doesn't, you can diff the two trees to discover what was happening, or just continue from the new one. |
| 22:54.46 | JBdiGriz | Is the demo directory completely new stuff for you? |
| 22:58.16 | bugQ | new relative to what? I haven't seen it before, but I don't know if it was there last month or not |
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| 22:58.50 | JeffM | bugQ, is this a clean tree? |
| 22:59.10 | bugQ | I have run make clean... |
| 22:59.20 | JeffM | I mean does it have any changes from you |
| 22:59.26 | bugQ | ah, no, it does not |
| 22:59.26 | JeffM | or is it the same code that is on the server |
| 22:59.41 | JeffM | and svn up dosn't get anything newer? |
| 22:59.55 | bugQ | no. |
| 23:00.11 | JBdiGriz | Move this tree out of the way, and get a completely new tree. |
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| 23:08.06 | Thumper_ | DTRemenak: you want svn:eol-style native properties on all files in the directories I'm touching except for .sln and .vcproj files? or should I just touch the Makefile.am files I edited? |
| 23:08.25 | Erroneous | all text-type files, yes |
| 23:08.56 | Erroneous | see http://my.bzflag.org/w/Auto-props for specifics |
| 23:08.57 | JeffM | Thumper_, the defaults we want are in the wiki, on the SVN article |
| 23:08.58 | JeffM | yeah that |
| 23:09.04 | Thumper_ | JeffM: ok thx |
| 23:09.18 | Thumper_ | Erroneous: thx too :) |
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| 23:58.58 | Constitution | blast007: what time tomorrow works best for you? |
