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| 00:15.16 | *** join/#bzflag Docto856 (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:15.30 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@pool-96-237-103-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:23.00 | pacman87 | is the current 2.0 bzfs working with the new _explodeTime vs spawn checks? |
| 00:27.53 | me1 | it segfaulted on me :( |
| 01:00.26 | *** join/#bzflag Aishiko_ (n=phoenix@nc-76-0-144-152.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 01:27.17 | *** join/#bzflag draniac2121 (n=47cedb29@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:32.52 | pacman87 | is there an easy way to get a playerID from a callsign? |
| 01:33.01 | a_meteorite | via a plugin? |
| 01:33.03 | pacman87 | yes |
| 01:35.23 | a_meteorite | any particular reason? |
| 01:35.34 | *** join/#bzflag loophole (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 01:35.39 | a_meteorite | it's easier to store their ID to begin with, instead of their callsign |
| 01:36.26 | pacman87 | but if i want my plugin to know it's me |
| 01:36.40 | pacman87 | it doesnt know what playerID i have |
| 01:36.45 | a_meteorite | you'd need to fill a bzAPIIntList with bz_getPlayerIndexList() and loop through to find their callsign, then the ID. I don't think there is a function to get the ID from callsign. |
| 01:37.59 | pacman87 | yeah, i figured i could do it that way; i just wanted to be sure i wasn't missing out on a simpler way |
| 01:38.46 | a_meteorite | is there a function that does it? not that I remember nor that I can see via bzfsAPI.h |
| 01:39.00 | a_meteorite | it'd be a useful function though, now that one thinks about it |
| 01:39.05 | pacman87 | function to find playerID from callsign? |
| 01:39.10 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 01:39.17 | pacman87 | no, i checked too |
| 01:40.35 | pacman87 | how do i intentionally make a plugin fail to load? return non-zero from bz_Load() ? |
| 01:41.50 | a_meteorite | you can't fail during the load process, iirc |
| 01:42.01 | a_meteorite | and you can't unload yourself, I tried |
| 01:44.58 | Constitution | pacman87: you could retrieve a list of players and then iterate through them looking for the callsign you need |
| 01:45.17 | a_meteorite | Constitution: read up |
| 01:45.35 | pacman87 | right, i was just wondering if a better way had been inplemented |
| 01:45.36 | a_meteorite | <a_meteorite>: you'd need to fill a bzAPIIntList with bz_getPlayerIndexList() and loop through to find their callsign, then the ID. I don't think there is a function to get the ID from callsign. |
| 01:45.38 | Constitution | oh, right |
| 01:45.54 | Constitution | are you patching branch or trunk? |
| 01:46.07 | pacman87 | is it possible to use the globally unique playerID? |
| 01:46.14 | a_meteorite | pacman87: you mean bzid? |
| 01:46.20 | pacman87 | yeah, that :) |
| 01:46.27 | a_meteorite | yes, in bz_PlayerRecord |
| 01:46.31 | a_meteorite | Constitution: both |
| 01:46.46 | Constitution | k |
| 01:47.27 | Constitution | let me (or someone else) know when it's done |
| 01:48.19 | a_meteorite | sure |
| 01:48.22 | pacman87 | do i need to include something besides bzfsAPI.h to be able to declare a bzAPIIntList? |
| 01:48.36 | a_meteorite | pacman87: no |
| 01:49.24 | pacman87 | bz_APIIntList *playerList; gives me an undeclared identifier for 'bz_APIIntList' |
| 01:49.32 | pacman87 | does it have an underscore or not? |
| 01:49.39 | a_meteorite | it doe snot |
| 01:49.47 | pacman87 | ah, i should update the wiki, then |
| 01:49.51 | JeffM | depends on the version |
| 01:49.54 | JeffM | no the wiki is right |
| 01:49.56 | JeffM | for 3.0 |
| 01:49.58 | pacman87 | ah |
| 01:50.09 | JeffM | the 2.0 api is not very consistent |
| 01:50.18 | a_meteorite | JeffM speaks the truth |
| 01:50.30 | pacman87 | JeffM: i've noticed. |
| 01:51.01 | JeffM | it's been fixed in 3.0 |
| 01:51.08 | JeffM | and that's what the wiki represents |
| 01:51.38 | pacman87 | might be a good idea to note that in the wiki, so people like me don't get confused :) |
| 01:52.10 | JeffM | many entries have a 'history' item |
| 01:52.26 | JeffM | you can add one of those if you want that mentions that it was diferent in the old blandless |
| 01:53.25 | pacman87 | no, i meant a note that the wiki is for the 3.0 bzfsAPI |
| 01:53.57 | JeffM | the wiki is always for the current code |
| 01:54.06 | JeffM | that is a basic assumption |
| 01:54.09 | JeffM | trunk is current code |
| 01:54.31 | JeffM | cus when we do 4.0 the wiki will be for that ;) |
| 01:54.40 | blast007 | that's rather bold to assume that our users will assume that :P |
| 01:54.56 | JeffM | then we can put a note on that on the api main article |
| 01:55.12 | pacman87 | yeah, from a non-dev's point of view, the 2.0 branch is current, because that's what they're playing on |
| 01:55.21 | JeffM | you are a dev |
| 01:55.22 | JeffM | ;) |
| 01:55.51 | pacman87 | so your point is that no non-devs will need to look at the api wiki? |
| 01:55.52 | JeffM | I don't mind the main api page saying that the main wiki docs are for the current code, and if there is/was a change it'll be in the history sections |
| 01:56.20 | JeffM | my point is, I don't want every page saying its' for 3.0 |
| 01:57.03 | pacman87 | makes sense |
| 01:57.21 | JeffM | I don't mind clearifying what the wiki is for on the main API article |
| 02:01.42 | JeffM | there, I even added a part on it to the wiki ;) |
| 02:01.46 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFS_API#Wiki_Documnetation |
| 02:03.24 | pacman87 | thanks. i'll still probably forget again, but that's my fault, and you can point and laugh next time i'm wondering why something doesn't work :) |
| 02:04.07 | JeffM | mostly if you are in doubt, check the header |
| 02:04.21 | JeffM | cus it don't mater WHAT the docs say, the header is what the compiler uses. |
| 02:04.34 | pacman87 | i'm slowly learning that |
| 02:04.51 | JeffM | basic C :) |
| 02:05.37 | pacman87 | as the 2.0 API doesnt have a function to get the total number of players, just the number of players on a specific team |
| 02:06.00 | JeffM | you can get a playerlist intlist and get the size |
| 02:06.19 | JeffM | cus there isn't realy any reason to get a count, except to iterate thru them |
| 02:07.01 | pacman87 | oh, i'd forgotten about getting the size from the playerlist |
| 02:07.14 | JeffM | what do you need the count for? |
| 02:07.25 | pacman87 | to iterate through them |
| 02:07.36 | JeffM | that would be why it's in the list size ;) |
| 02:07.41 | JeffM | so you already have a list then |
| 02:07.58 | pacman87 | yeah, my programming knowledge has some gaps |
| 02:08.34 | pacman87 | i know java since collegeboard switched to it, and i'm taking a C class now |
| 02:21.26 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 02:30.29 | a_meteorite | is it known that current 2.0 bzfs crashes whenever someone tries to join? |
| 02:32.27 | JeffM | it was mentioned today |
| 02:32.34 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 02:32.34 | JeffM | but I don't belive its' been fixed/looked at |
| 02:34.24 | JeffM | cus I know it worked for me localy this morning |
| 02:34.31 | JeffM | right when I commited |
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| 02:35.49 | me1 | rev 16640 works, but 16641, l4m3r's commit, doesn't, for me anyways |
| 02:36.48 | JeffM | it's rebuilding, I'll check it out |
| 02:38.18 | spldart | How can I backtrack the build date to those rev's? |
| 02:39.00 | JeffM | it's easy, this morning, and then slightly later this morning ;) |
| 02:39.15 | spldart | LOLOL |
| 02:39.33 | spldart | Ask a me question.. Get a you answer ;-) |
| 02:42.03 | JeffM | works fine in the debuger |
| 02:42.31 | JeffM | works fine with out the debuger |
| 02:43.17 | a_meteorite | JeffM: what's the svn command to do a diff? |
| 02:43.52 | JeffM | right click on the file, and hit diff |
| 02:43.58 | a_meteorite | k |
| 02:44.46 | Constitution | or svn diff |
| 02:44.56 | Constitution | or svn diff -R <num> |
| 02:45.07 | a_meteorite | yeah, I'm submitting my patch |
| 02:45.33 | JeffM | that does? |
| 02:46.10 | a_meteorite | same functionality as bz_getPlayerByIndex(), but with a callsign |
| 02:46.15 | Constitution | rotating turrets |
| 02:46.24 | a_meteorite | rotating turrets, I wish |
| 02:48.43 | me1 | NetHandler::pflush (this=0x0, set=0xbfedc684) at NetHandler.cxx:448 |
| 02:48.43 | me1 | 448 if (FD_ISSET(fd, set)) |
| 02:48.58 | me1 | mean anything? |
| 02:49.08 | JeffM | works fine on windows |
| 02:49.31 | me1 | but i'm not on windows |
| 02:50.15 | a_meteorite | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1901120&group_id=3248&atid=303248 |
| 02:50.23 | JeffM | go back up higher |
| 02:50.33 | JeffM | where is the nethandler called from? |
| 02:50.47 | a_meteorite | JeffM: the latest crashes for me on my mac, just fyi |
| 02:51.04 | JeffM | I'm sure is a bsd sockets thing |
| 02:51.08 | JeffM | so makes sense |
| 02:51.53 | me1 | Player [0] accept() from 192.168.1.2:46403 on 7 |
| 02:51.53 | me1 | Player [0] submitted reverse resolve query |
| 02:51.53 | me1 | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 02:51.53 | me1 | NetHandler::pflush (this=0x0, set=0xbfd11cc4) at NetHandler.cxx:448 |
| 02:51.53 | me1 | 448 if (FD_ISSET(fd, set)) |
| 02:53.46 | Constitution | pacman87: you will want to keep in mind that using this new API function will require your users to update to svn development code |
| 02:53.57 | *** join/#bzflag muammar (n=muammar@190.39.46.198) |
| 02:54.10 | *** part/#bzflag muammar (n=muammar@190.39.46.198) |
| 02:54.28 | Constitution | so if there's a workaround possible with the current release code, you may want to try to use it |
| 02:54.35 | spldart | Getting alot of trunk code servers lately that if you spend several minutes on them they stop and scroll the chat box with server communication error :-0 |
| 02:55.04 | blast007 | spldart: yup |
| 02:55.21 | blast007 | spldart: and were you using an updated client and server? |
| 02:56.16 | spldart | my code grab from several hours ago.. and it's been happening on some servers all day... is it recent patches? |
| 02:57.52 | blast007 | not all servers are updated to recent code, which is why I'm asking |
| 02:58.05 | blast007 | try running your own server locally and connect to it |
| 02:58.10 | JeffM | me1: did you build debug and run in gdb? |
| 02:58.15 | spldart | I'm using other's servers with my recent client build |
| 02:58.20 | spldart | IC |
| 02:59.51 | JeffM | I can't see anyting in L4m3r's commit that would break it |
| 03:00.32 | me1 | just rebuild debug, and got same thing |
| 03:00.39 | me1 | Player [0] accept() from 192.168.1.2:43480 on 7 |
| 03:00.39 | me1 | Player [0] submitted reverse resolve query |
| 03:00.39 | me1 | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. |
| 03:00.39 | me1 | NetHandler::pflush (this=0x0, set=0xbfd6c514) at NetHandler.cxx:448 |
| 03:00.39 | me1 | 448 if (FD_ISSET(fd, set)) |
| 03:02.26 | JeffM | go higher |
| 03:02.29 | JeffM | the nethandler is null |
| 03:02.32 | JeffM | that's the problem |
| 03:02.40 | JeffM | need to see who is trying to CALL the flush |
| 03:03.14 | blast007 | type 'bt' for the backtrace |
| 03:03.52 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@59.154.120.204) |
| 03:04.01 | me1 | bt |
| 03:04.01 | me1 | #0 NetHandler::pflush (this=0x0, set=0xbf9180c4) at NetHandler.cxx:448 |
| 03:04.01 | me1 | #1 0x081167c0 in main (argc=2, argv=0xbf918904) at bzfs.cxx:5766 |
| 03:04.04 | JeffM | I guess it'd be 5766 in bzfs.cxx |
| 03:04.06 | JeffM | heh |
| 03:04.22 | JeffM | what is i? |
| 03:07.45 | spldart | Your right blast007... local server with same code as client = no crash.. but I know one server is just earlier today code so I assume a very recent patch caused part of the issue |
| 03:08.25 | blast007 | spldart: or it's the config of the server |
| 03:08.44 | blast007 | me1: what is at line 5766 of bzfs.cxx? |
| 03:09.23 | JeffM | a_meteorite: need a real name for the changelog in trunk since you seem to want that. |
| 03:09.44 | JeffM | blast007: one of the playerRecords got created with no net handler |
| 03:09.47 | JeffM | I can't find out why |
| 03:09.52 | a_meteorite | JeffM: Daniel Outmin is the real name |
| 03:10.07 | JeffM | Constitution is reviewing it and going to commit it to trunk |
| 03:10.10 | JeffM | thanks for the patch |
| 03:10.12 | a_meteorite | sure |
| 03:10.39 | me1 | gtg, hope i helped somehow |
| 03:10.57 | JeffM | should do a search by BZID too |
| 03:11.28 | a_meteorite | JeffM: I can tackle that one as well |
| 03:11.46 | JeffM | if you want, tho it'd take const like a min to write |
| 03:11.53 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 03:12.47 | a_meteorite | I'd like to get involved more in bzflag dev work, it's just hard to say what needs to be done cause there is no real planning |
| 03:13.04 | a_meteorite | one step at a time :) |
| 03:15.46 | blast007 | a_meteorite: make 2.99.x not suck ;) |
| 03:15.55 | a_meteorite | blast007: in what ways? hehe |
| 03:16.02 | blast007 | lots of ways |
| 03:16.07 | a_meteorite | I've always wanted to tackle the net code someday |
| 03:16.15 | a_meteorite | I figured sooner is better than later |
| 03:16.27 | Constitution | a_meteorite: read my post on the BZBB about 3.0 development state |
| 03:16.36 | Thumper_ | server player record? http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m41b15047 |
| 03:16.38 | Constitution | there are several links to some todos that we have |
| 03:16.53 | a_meteorite | Constitution: ok |
| 03:20.28 | JeffM | if anyone has a linux build that is crashing they should see why the netHandler isn't geting inited. |
| 03:23.56 | *** join/#bzflag rodrigo1694 (n=48084615@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:25.32 | *** join/#bzflag rodrigo1694 (n=48084615@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:26.00 | rodrigo1694 | where do I go so I can get in a battle |
| 03:26.09 | JeffM | to any server |
| 03:26.22 | JeffM | have you read the GettingStarted article that is linked on the main webpage? |
| 03:26.26 | a_meteorite | any server that has other people on it :) |
| 03:26.37 | rodrigo1694 | ok thanks |
| 03:26.52 | Winny | ~bzgs |
| 03:26.53 | ibot | Please read through http://my.bzflag.org/w/Getting_Started for a quick overview of how to play BZFlag. |
| 03:26.56 | Winny | GAH |
| 03:27.09 | Winny | ;p |
| 03:28.25 | JeffM | I can't see how netHandler would be inited to null, it's newed in the constructor |
| 03:32.43 | *** join/#bzflag rodrigo1694 (n=48084615@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:34.49 | *** join/#bzflag rodrigo1694 (n=48084615@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:35.13 | rodrigo1694 | where do I got to find servers |
| 03:35.40 | a_meteorite | rodrigo1694: try reading: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Getting_Started |
| 03:35.48 | rodrigo1694 | k |
| 03:37.10 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16642 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): |
| 03:37.10 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: Add API calls to get players by callsign and bzid search ( inspired by patch 1901120 ). |
| 03:37.10 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: refactor API to use a utils to init API player records from internal records. |
| 03:53.27 | Winny | anyone know of a a web irc client other then cgi irc? |
| 03:57.16 | spldart | It's been.... Fun. |
| 04:03.33 | blast007 | Winny: I think there is a PHP one |
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| 04:40.21 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 04:41.21 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r16643 10/trunk/bzflag/src/geometry/AnimatedTreads.cxx: Unused var - style |
| 04:59.04 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:00.05 | pacman87 | my plugin is crashing on bool bz_getPlayerIndexList ( bzAPIIntList *playerList ); |
| 05:00.05 | pacman87 | what do i need to initalize *playerList to before calling this? |
| 05:01.31 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 05:01.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 05:04.07 | blast007 | pacman87: looking at other plugins can be quite useful: |
| 05:04.09 | blast007 | bzAPIIntList *playerList = bz_newIntList(); |
| 05:04.09 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:04.58 | pacman87 | blast007: thanks. i forgot about the constructor :( |
| 05:08.51 | pacman87 | blast007: still crashes. Am I allowed to call that from inside bz_Load? |
| 05:10.01 | blast007 | wwwzones does all that inside its process() function |
| 05:10.45 | blast007 | what were you using inside bz_Load? |
| 05:11.29 | pacman87 | i'm trying to get the playerID of the callsign specified to the plugin via the commandLine arg |
| 05:12.54 | blast007 | okay, but you can't do that inside the load function |
| 05:13.12 | blast007 | there are no players on the map when the server is first started :P |
| 05:13.21 | pacman87 | right, i'm loading the plugin later |
| 05:13.30 | blast007 | eww |
| 05:13.33 | blast007 | that's just wrong |
| 05:13.46 | blast007 | store the callsign in a variable, and use that later |
| 05:14.58 | blast007 | have some on-join event where you handle a user with that name joining |
| 05:25.30 | pacman87 | blast007: that works now, thanks |
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| 05:27.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 05:30.09 | JeffM | the list is created for you in 3.0 |
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| 06:04.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
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| 06:10.56 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r16644 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: |
| 06:11.00 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: Fix segfault - null pointer dereference |
| 06:11.06 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: Fixes bzfs server segfault for /flag give CALLSIGN FLAG |
| 06:11.52 | blast007 | Thumper_: you killed cia! |
| 06:13.21 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 06:21.14 | pacman87 | is there a way to prevent a player from spawning without kicking them in 2.0? |
| 06:21.53 | a_temp_dist | they could be part of a group that doesn't have the spawn perm |
| 06:22.12 | pacman87 | *without kicking them if they try to spawn |
| 06:22.50 | L4m3r | not really |
| 06:23.02 | pacman87 | ok, i'll have to get creative then |
| 06:23.11 | L4m3r | though with the recent changes I made, it wouldn't be too hard to hack bzfs to delay the spawn indefinitely |
| 06:23.40 | pacman87 | under bz_AllowSpawnData, what does time do? |
| 06:23.57 | L4m3r | it's the game time |
| 06:23.59 | L4m3r | like every event |
| 06:24.23 | pacman87 | the constructor in bzfsAPI initalizes it to 0 |
| 06:25.08 | L4m3r | of course it does |
| 06:25.13 | L4m3r | it'd have to be set by the caller |
| 06:25.24 | L4m3r | and there's a good chance it isn't :P |
| 06:26.09 | pacman87 | so what would happen if i set time to some large value? |
| 06:26.53 | L4m3r | nothing |
| 06:26.58 | L4m3r | it isn't used by anything |
| 06:27.13 | pacman87 | ok |
| 06:29.50 | JeffM | it is used to tell YOU what time the event HAPPENED at |
| 06:30.01 | JeffM | 3.0 has a can spawn perm |
| 06:30.09 | JeffM | that's sent as part of the state |
| 06:31.07 | JeffM | at the worst you would basicly be lying to the next plug-in |
| 06:31.15 | JeffM | at best nothing woudl happen |
| 06:31.52 | pacman87 | thanks for the info. i'll try something creative |
| 06:32.04 | JeffM | what are you trying to do? |
| 06:32.19 | pacman87 | turn on and off a bot |
| 06:32.52 | JeffM | send it a chat message |
| 06:32.58 | JeffM | and have it parse i9t |
| 06:33.18 | pacman87 | well, right now i'm just using the autopilot bot |
| 06:35.34 | JeffM | not much you can do with out moding the server to add a new event |
| 06:35.55 | JeffM | an event that dosn't realy have much place in 3.0 |
| 06:36.04 | JeffM | since we can just use the allow spawn message |
| 06:36.42 | pacman87 | my solution: change the bot's spawn position to an inaccessable part of the map |
| 06:36.52 | JeffM | ewww |
| 06:36.57 | JeffM | put your bot in a box |
| 06:37.03 | pacman87 | pretty much |
| 06:38.04 | blast007 | you can modify the server to send an autopilot update for that bot player |
| 06:38.20 | blast007 | the client will accept it's own autopilot setting last I tried |
| 06:38.33 | blast007 | or are you wanting -solo bots? |
| 06:38.42 | pacman87 | no, i want the autopilot bot |
| 06:38.57 | pacman87 | the -solo bots are pointless, except for target practice |
| 06:39.14 | JeffM | code up a SSP for 3.0 ;) |
| 06:39.50 | pacman87 | i'm not sure i'm ready to dig into that code |
| 06:40.00 | pacman87 | i've got my plate full just with bzfsAPI |
| 06:40.20 | JeffM | SSPs are part of the API |
| 06:40.57 | JeffM | bz_addServerSidePlayer |
| 06:41.02 | JeffM | ;) |
| 06:41.14 | pacman87 | not the API i'm looking at :) |
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| 06:47.03 | L4m3r | I'm trying to test the spawn fix for 3.0, but the client won't start :\ |
| 06:47.25 | JeffMMain | L4m3r: we have a message that tells the server it can't ask for a spawn yet |
| 06:47.29 | JeffMMain | you should use that |
| 06:47.41 | JeffMMain | basicly don't set the state untill the time is up |
| 06:47.57 | L4m3r | that's what 2.0 does :) |
| 06:48.17 | JeffMMain | no, 2.0 dosn't tell the server it can ask for a spawn, it delays the spawn message |
| 06:48.40 | JeffMMain | this is a seperate message that will prevent the "right click to spawn" message from displaying on the client |
| 06:48.59 | L4m3r | oh |
| 06:49.19 | JeffMMain | it's all very civil |
| 06:49.35 | JeffMMain | if the client sends a spawn message when that state is not set to allow it, it's ignored |
| 06:49.52 | JeffMMain | and at that point we know They cheatin ;) |
| 06:50.06 | L4m3r | that's still not very different from what I did with 2.0 :) |
| 06:50.17 | L4m3r | it's basically the same, minus the state |
| 06:50.25 | L4m3r | and ignored -> delayed |
| 06:51.13 | JeffMMain | yes, it's just better on the client side, since it's more informative. |
| 06:51.28 | JeffMMain | that way they can be bumped to no spawn for any time |
| 06:51.35 | JeffMMain | and not be told on the client to try to spawn. |
| 06:52.04 | JeffMMain | mostly so an admin could talk to them |
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| 07:04.18 | pacman87 | to my understanding of 2.0, you can alter a player's score on the server, and everyone but that player will not see the change. is this correct? |
| 07:04.33 | pacman87 | s/will not/will |
| 07:08.56 | a_meteorite | pacman87: yes, there is a simple fix for it, but I believe it was purposely excluded for some reason |
| 07:09.06 | a_meteorite | a couple lines when I say simple, and completely proto compatible |
| 07:09.21 | pacman87 | think_tank: ping |
| 07:09.36 | pacman87 | how do i update the score in the plugin? |
| 07:10.19 | pacman87 | i've tried getting the playerRecord, and setting wins and losses, and calling bz_updatePlayerData(record) |
| 07:10.42 | a_meteorite | pacman87: you really need to learn how to read bzfsAPI.h |
| 07:11.11 | pacman87 | i am reading it |
| 07:11.35 | pacman87 | i'm just not sure exactly what everything does |
| 07:11.35 | Constitution | you can't really change much (or anything?) by changing the playerRecord data |
| 07:11.55 | a_meteorite | bz_updatePlayerData is to only update the player record from the source, it does not push it back |
| 07:12.35 | pacman87 | then bz_reloadPlayerData would be a better name, imho |
| 07:13.05 | a_meteorite | that depends on interpretation ;) |
| 07:13.16 | pacman87 | because update to me means that i'm the one updating, not getting an update |
| 07:13.30 | pacman87 | so i am reading bzfsAPI, just not interperting it correctly |
| 07:14.21 | pacman87 | back to my original question: what's the proper way to set a player's score? |
| 07:14.25 | a_meteorite | I do not see where the API allows you to set scores, team scores, but not player scores. I do know it's possible though cause there are people who do it. |
| 07:17.34 | L4m3r | it was removed from 2.0 |
| 07:18.31 | L4m3r | the client maintains its own score, so you can't really set it |
| 07:21.37 | pacman87 | right, i just wanted to change how other people see it |
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| 07:33.18 | think_tank | pacman87: pong |
| 07:33.46 | pacman87 | think_tank: pm me |
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| 16:00.02 | brlcad | hehe, kimchi in space |
| 16:01.18 | brlcad | almost time to start thinking about gsoc again |
| 16:01.48 | brlcad | (as in who wants to be a mentor, who wants to be a student, projects to work on) |
| 16:06.32 | menotume | i want to be a student ! |
| 16:06.44 | menotume | i want to be 18 again :P |
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| 16:26.25 | Dessy | lol meno |
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| 16:39.51 | brlcad | menotume: you mean you want to be impulsive, pimpled, and inexperienced? :) |
| 16:40.05 | menotume | yep :) |
| 16:40.29 | *** join/#bzflag newsy (n=80aee4a7@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:40.47 | menotume | insexperienced ? |
| 16:41.47 | brlcad | insexed certainly sounds better than unsexed |
| 16:41.53 | brlcad | *snip* |
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| 16:55.20 | brlcad | google summer of code is officially on for 2008, and IRC is on freenode for the first time .. #gsoc |
| 16:55.44 | whodaman | brlcad, nice! |
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| 17:04.16 | Epyon | GSoC 2008 announced ^_^ |
| 17:04.58 | whodaman | Epyon, #gspc :) |
| 17:05.02 | whodaman | grr |
| 17:05.06 | whodaman | #gsoc |
| 17:05.08 | whodaman | * |
| 17:06.13 | brlcad | Epyon: yep, already noted ;) |
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| 17:44.29 | pacman_87 | /nickserv register testpass |
| 17:45.11 | brlcad | oops |
| 17:45.43 | whodaman- | :/ |
| 17:45.50 | pacman_87 | yeah... |
| 17:48.31 | brlcad | mm.. I was playing pacman back in 87 |
| 17:49.14 | pacman_87 | pacman is the first video game i remember playing |
| 17:50.13 | pacman_87 | under ms-dos shell on a 286 |
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| 18:05.35 | *** topic/#bzflag by brlcad -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.10 is the latest public release || GSoC 2008 is on, join #gsoc if you're interested in participating (mentors and students) |
| 18:07.00 | JeffM | brlcad, I like the document, it looks nice |
| 18:08.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:08.39 | JeffM | I like the images and layout tho |
| 18:08.51 | JeffM | much more exciting then normal bland things |
| 18:09.04 | *** join/#bzflag DontTAZEmeBRO (n=DTMB@207.235.53.82) |
| 18:09.08 | JeffM | have you considered submiting it to gamasutra? |
| 18:09.17 | brlcad | I did |
| 18:09.34 | JeffM | they didn't go for it? |
| 18:09.41 | JeffM | or you just thought about it? ;) |
| 18:09.46 | brlcad | that's why it wasn't posted until recently, it was given to google back in October or something |
| 18:09.54 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:10.16 | brlcad | i was in talks with a couple different groups at CMP, gamasutra being one of them |
| 18:10.34 | JeffM | should have gone to GDC |
| 18:10.46 | brlcad | they were very much interested, but the more we got to talking the more it was looking to be a pretty darn drawn out ordeal |
| 18:11.08 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:11.30 | brlcad | they wanted it in specific formats with each image broken out, a complete reformat for the most part, and it would have needed to have been reworded for one of their categories some |
| 18:11.59 | brlcad | i.e., a LOT of extra work and I'd already put in weeks, so just as well to post it |
| 18:12.47 | JeffM | I assume we will apply in march why they start accepting? |
| 18:13.26 | brlcad | I think that's the plan |
| 18:13.41 | JeffM | how many mentors you want to go for this time? |
| 18:13.53 | brlcad | you mean students? |
| 18:14.01 | JeffM | mentors first, then students |
| 18:14.04 | JeffM | was a 2 part question |
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| 18:14.34 | JeffM | if Constitution dosn't apply/get accepted as part of it, I recomend him as a mentor |
| 18:14.38 | brlcad | as many mentors as are available/interested (probably not more than 10), but then only 5 students tops |
| 18:14.46 | JeffM | makes sense |
| 18:14.59 | JeffM | I'd do blast as a mentor as well |
| 18:15.08 | JeffM | assuming they want to |
| 18:15.48 | brlcad | yeah, anyone that can commit could already probably be listed as a mentor if they're interested |
| 18:16.08 | JeffM | listed, and proded into doing it, are not the same thing ;) |
| 18:16.42 | brlcad | since we "succeeded" last year, I don't think we'll have such an unknown/uncertainty in number of slots |
| 18:16.53 | JeffM | probalby not |
| 18:17.11 | JeffM | do I have to play the part of the grumpy old man again? |
| 18:17.25 | brlcad | last year was pretty saturating time-wise without more active participation |
| 18:17.30 | Gilly | what is the grumpy old man for in gsoc? |
| 18:17.41 | JeffM | me ;) |
| 18:17.47 | Gilly | yea but what for? |
| 18:17.52 | brlcad | JeffM: you self-nominate for that position regardless :) |
| 18:17.55 | JeffM | the person who forces students to actualy explain what they are trying to do. |
| 18:17.58 | Gilly | :D |
| 18:18.14 | JeffM | instead of just trusting that they'll do it "right" |
| 18:18.49 | JeffM | tho this yearh we should ensure that we work with them at the start so we don't need grumpyness at the end. |
| 18:19.08 | Gilly | sounds like a good strategy |
| 18:19.23 | Gilly | what is the bz gsoc project this year? |
| 18:19.29 | JeffM | huh? |
| 18:19.30 | brlcad | that's all part of the "more active participation" :) |
| 18:19.41 | JeffM | there is no "project" |
| 18:19.52 | JeffM | students submit ideas/projects |
| 18:19.53 | Gilly | oh hm, maybe i have misunderstood the thing a bit :) |
| 18:19.57 | brlcad | Gilly, the students propose the projects |
| 18:19.59 | JeffM | and we accept them |
| 18:20.03 | JeffM | we dont' tell them what to do. |
| 18:20.11 | Gilly | oh that's how it works then ok :) |
| 18:20.12 | JeffM | just how to do it :) |
| 18:20.22 | Gilly | so were there others besides bzrobots last year? |
| 18:20.34 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:20.36 | JeffM | 3 |
| 18:20.40 | JeffM | bzworkbench |
| 18:20.43 | JeffM | bzworld builder |
| 18:20.54 | JeffM | and inter server comunication |
| 18:21.00 | Gilly | ok, nice :) |
| 18:21.40 | brlcad | Gilly: see http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2007 |
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| 18:29.04 | brlcad | ~nickometer DontTAZEmeBRO |
| 18:29.15 | JeffM | they should |
| 18:29.22 | JeffM | asl well as finishing bzwb |
| 18:32.19 | brlcad | JeffM: heh, I think you just don't like copperplate .. |
| 18:32.21 | ruskie | ~nickometer ruskie |
| 18:32.27 | ruskie | O.o |
| 18:32.34 | JeffM | it's not one of the most readables |
| 18:32.43 | Gilly | ~nickometer Gilly |
| 18:32.49 | Gilly | whee :D |
| 18:32.56 | JeffM | see look what you started brlcad ;) |
| 18:33.08 | brlcad | there are only three fonts in the entire article this time :P |
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| 18:33.25 | DontTAZEmeBRO | Damn, I guess I'm a major lamer. :( |
| 18:33.26 | JeffM | that's better then you usualy do ;) |
| 18:33.36 | JeffM | this time lets get saturos to make the flyer |
| 18:33.41 | JeffM | like start him on it NOW |
| 18:33.53 | brlcad | he can do it now |
| 18:34.01 | whodaman- | JeffM, heh, for GSoC? |
| 18:34.03 | JeffM | we need to ask him |
| 18:34.08 | brlcad | all I can say is that I was the one that stepped up to actually do it without prodding :) |
| 18:34.09 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:34.18 | JeffM | yes, that's cus you are a project |
| 18:34.20 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.29 | JeffM | there is nothign wrong with proding |
| 18:34.53 | brlcad | depends on the type of prod :) |
| 18:35.10 | brlcad | but yeah, saturos can/should go to town |
| 18:35.33 | JeffM | I've send him a PM asking if he's interested |
| 18:35.34 | brlcad | giving leslie one this week would show some nice initiative |
| 18:35.52 | JeffM | what did you make yours in? |
| 18:35.59 | JeffM | software wise? |
| 18:36.18 | whodaman- | Keynote IIRC? |
| 18:36.20 | brlcad | mm, I don't recall -- probably either Pages (mac-only) or InDesign |
| 18:36.26 | JeffM | he has a mac |
| 18:36.32 | JeffM | that's all he uses now IIRC |
| 18:36.32 | whodaman- | yep, MBP |
| 18:36.34 | JeffM | his macbook |
| 18:36.45 | whodaman- | JeffM, yeah, for design stuff |
| 18:36.47 | JeffM | maybe you can send that to him for ref |
| 18:36.54 | JeffM | if he accepts when he wakes up |
| 18:36.59 | brlcad | I doubt he'd do it in anything I couldn't read (unless it was MS Publisher *shudder*) |
| 18:37.12 | JeffM | I'm not wooried about you reading it |
| 18:37.19 | brlcad | otherwise, we just need pdfs |
| 18:37.23 | JeffM | more about him reading the old one for a staring point ;) |
| 18:37.24 | brlcad | and people to translate |
| 18:37.42 | brlcad | ah, I'd just let him go to town with a clean slate |
| 18:37.54 | brlcad | there were completely different styles that I played with that would have been just as nice |
| 18:38.03 | JeffM | he probalby will, but it's nice to send him as much past info as we have, then he can decide ;) |
| 18:38.10 | brlcad | it's up on the wiki |
| 18:38.14 | JeffM | k |
| 18:39.43 | JeffM | it's simpler |
| 18:39.50 | JeffM | the white blob in the middle is a bit meh |
| 18:40.15 | JeffM | I'd have put a some sort of light gray leaf pattern in the background |
| 18:40.17 | JeffM | veyr subtle |
| 18:40.37 | JeffM | and maybe mentioned that SoC in the whitespot |
| 18:40.43 | JeffM | but it's nice |
| 18:40.51 | brlcad | yeah, it was just something quick |
| 18:40.55 | whodaman | JeffM, I was actually thinking about calling Satu in a bit about something different, want me to mention the flyer thing? |
| 18:41.00 | brlcad | i like it most because the title lines are actually a haiku |
| 18:41.06 | JeffM | whodaman- sure |
| 18:41.09 | JeffM | I've send him a PM |
| 18:41.14 | brlcad | that's what took most of the time |
| 18:41.18 | JeffM | only cus he's not on IM |
| 18:41.18 | whodaman | JeffM, k, I'll tell him to check it :p |
| 18:48.39 | brlcad | yeah, or even beforehand |
| 18:48.50 | brlcad | we're long overdue, albeit unstable for release |
| 18:49.06 | JeffM | just needs some proding |
| 18:49.21 | brlcad | not just prodding, there's some hard bug on head |
| 18:49.30 | JeffM | many |
| 18:49.34 | brlcad | i've been dubugging for nearly two weeks now |
| 18:49.44 | brlcad | it's got a crash-on-startup that is really bizarre |
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| 18:50.17 | brlcad | I finally traced down code changes that started it, but it's still not clear *why* |
| 18:50.20 | blast007 | hello Saturos :) |
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| 18:50.33 | brlcad | howdy Saturos |
| 18:50.45 | whodaman | JeffM, I let him know :D |
| 18:51.14 | L4m3r | I'm assuming that you guys don't need extra promotion for SoC, but if you want me to make any postings, let me know :) |
| 18:51.24 | Saturos | heya |
| 18:51.26 | Saturos | somebody needs a flyer? |
| 18:51.28 | Saturos | warm welcome for somebody who never opens irc :) |
| 18:51.29 | whodaman | heh |
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| 18:53.18 | brlcad | Saturos: yeah, care to make a GSoC flyer for 2008? |
| 18:53.27 | Saturos | would love to |
| 18:53.49 | brlcad | pretty much an open palette, just should probably include the juicy details of deadlines and links |
| 18:53.56 | brlcad | you seen last year's? |
| 18:54.07 | Saturos | yes, I think I translated it along with ts |
| 18:54.21 | Saturos | it is somewhere in the wiki, right? |
| 18:54.29 | brlcad | so you have an idea of what it was like -- you can do something similar or totally different |
| 18:54.49 | brlcad | just should probably be "visually interesting" and something that could be posted around college campuses |
| 18:55.07 | Saturos | I think I'll copy most of your text for a start... I'm not that great in English language |
| 18:55.15 | brlcad | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2007#Promotion_Flyers |
| 18:56.00 | JeffM | just make it kick lots of ass ;) |
| 18:56.05 | brlcad | the critical pieces are probably the deadlines, irc, and url, the rest being up to design |
| 18:56.29 | JeffM | and the ass kicking. |
| 18:56.32 | JeffM | that's critical |
| 18:56.46 | Saturos | brb |
| 18:57.34 | Saturos | oh yeah, the ass kicking |
| 18:58.25 | Saturos | when do you need it finished? |
| 18:58.51 | brlcad | the sooner the better, hopefully sometime this week? |
| 18:59.02 | brlcad | maybe this weekend? |
| 18:59.36 | Saturos | hmm... should be possible |
| 18:59.38 | brlcad | the announcement was very short last time, because I didn't know if we'd get accepted |
| 18:59.45 | brlcad | this time, however, chances are very high |
| 19:00.31 | Saturos | cmyk or rgb? |
| 19:00.53 | JeffM | it'll probably be done using personal printers, so RGB will be fine |
| 19:01.01 | Saturos | 300dpi? |
| 19:01.06 | JeffM | should be fine |
| 19:01.09 | Saturos | 297 mm x 210 mm? |
| 19:01.22 | JeffM | what' samller? A4 or US letter? |
| 19:01.26 | JeffM | smaller |
| 19:01.37 | Saturos | 297 mm x 210 mm is A4 |
| 19:01.56 | JeffM | I'm just thinking of whatever the smaller of the 2 is |
| 19:02.00 | jftsang | does anyone know nn-main's new IRC nick |
| 19:02.01 | JeffM | so no mater what it'll fit |
| 19:02.05 | Saturos | hmm, never came across us letter |
| 19:02.07 | whodaman | jftsang, god no |
| 19:02.22 | JeffM | Saturos, well you are in the europe so it makes sense |
| 19:02.28 | JeffM | basicly it's our version of a4 |
| 19:02.31 | JeffM | slightly diffrent |
| 19:02.32 | Saturos | I was thinking the same |
| 19:02.56 | JeffM | it's called 8.5 x 11, but it's not really that |
| 19:03.06 | blast007 | apparently US Letter is shorter |
| 19:03.18 | JeffM | dosnt' suprise me |
| 19:03.36 | JeffM | the question is how much? |
| 19:03.52 | JeffM | 215.9 × 279.4 |
| 19:04.00 | JeffM | that's north americal letter |
| 19:04.53 | blast007 | ah, so A4 is a slight bit more narrow too |
| 19:04.54 | JeffM | so do 210 x 275, that will fit on everyones |
| 19:05.05 | brlcad | Saturos: you're just as likely to never come across A4 in the US :) |
| 19:05.40 | JeffM | A4's will have a little white in the len, letter in the weidth |
| 19:07.17 | Saturos | brlcad: I was wondering if you even knew A4... thats why I used mm x mm |
| 19:07.35 | JeffM | we do, it's always an option in our printer settings ;) |
| 19:07.39 | JeffM | we just never use it |
| 19:08.13 | JeffM | 210x275 will print for anyone |
| 19:08.25 | Saturos | I'll easily find the deadlines with google, right? |
| 19:09.19 | Saturos | And will it more likely get printed in color or b/w? |
| 19:09.28 | JeffM | hard to say |
| 19:09.31 | JeffM | may go ether way |
| 19:09.46 | JeffM | more then likely people will print them and put them up at capuses |
| 19:09.54 | JeffM | so most likely color inkjet |
| 19:10.10 | JeffM | as that is common for people to have |
| 19:10.31 | Saturos | ok, I'll aim for a little higher contrast anyways.. so it doesnt look all grey if its not colored |
| 19:10.36 | JeffM | cool |
| 19:10.53 | JeffM | contrast wll make it stand out too, even in color |
| 19:12.07 | Saturos | yeah.. alright, I'll try to have something to show by the weekend. gotta watch "Who wants to be a millionaire?" now. if that is what the show is called in the us :) |
| 19:13.01 | L4m3r | ... |
| 19:13.18 | L4m3r | I hope your version has a less annoying host |
| 19:13.26 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:13.49 | Saturos | not annoying at all... in fact he's the main reason for watching it |
| 19:13.54 | jftsang | Chris Tarrant rocks |
| 19:13.56 | brlcad | Saturos: details at http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html |
| 19:14.04 | Saturos | thanks brlcad |
| 19:14.08 | brlcad | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_timeline |
| 19:14.16 | Saturos | cu for now |
| 19:14.22 | blast007 | cya |
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| 20:19.12 | Winny | wow |
| 20:19.20 | Winny | someone woke up a THREE YEAR old post |
| 20:19.21 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3387 |
| 20:19.31 | whodaman | heh |
| 20:20.15 | whodaman | yeah, Ratfink is going through the threads.. |
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| 20:38.31 | TheRedBaron | hrm |
| 20:38.56 | TheRedBaron | if gsoc 08 comes through - will BzFlag submit an application? |
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| 20:41.03 | Winny | I hope so |
| 20:41.19 | Erroneous | almost certainly |
| 20:41.50 | Erroneous | and it's been officially announced, so there's no real "if it gsoc 08 through" |
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| 20:42.06 | TheRedBaron | Erroneous: hrm - I missed the announcement thne. |
| 20:42.32 | Erroneous | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ |
| 20:46.22 | Winny | Gee sock |
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| 21:21.08 | Constitution | yay gsoc |
| 21:21.18 | F687s__ | why yay? |
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| 21:21.59 | JeffM | yay that they are having it |
| 21:22.09 | JeffM | Constitution, do you intend to apply as a student? |
| 21:22.22 | Constitution | definitely |
| 21:22.26 | JeffM | k |
| 21:22.35 | JeffM | if not I was going to ask if you'd be a mentor |
| 21:22.39 | JeffM | but student == better |
| 21:22.44 | Constitution | I'm honored |
| 21:23.00 | JeffM | blast should be a mentor too |
| 21:23.10 | whodaman | Constitution, :D |
| 21:23.19 | JeffM | I don't know how much time Tupone has |
| 21:24.00 | Tupone | hmm, not much. I'm going out (not abroad this time) for a long period |
| 21:24.23 | JeffM | wel all have our lives ;) |
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| 21:24.27 | JeffM | where to this time? |
| 21:24.32 | JeffM | germany again? |
| 21:24.37 | Tupone | North Italy |
| 21:24.42 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:24.47 | Tupone | not abroad : |
| 21:25.13 | JeffM | well I didn't know if you term for aproad meant "over a body of water" not just over to a near country ;) |
| 21:25.24 | Tupone | well, if you come in Rome, when I'm here, just call |
| 21:25.31 | JeffM | I don't consider going to mexico "aborad" |
| 21:25.48 | JeffM | it'll be a while before I can travel sadly :/ |
| 21:25.53 | JeffM | unless you count Arizona |
| 21:26.06 | JeffM | have to make the bleh drive thrusday |
| 21:26.51 | JBdiGriz | Better to make that drive now than summer |
| 21:26.59 | JeffM | I prefer summer |
| 21:27.13 | JeffM | heat dosn't bother me, as much as sliding off the road ;) |
| 21:27.19 | JBdiGriz | Good A/C? |
| 21:27.25 | JeffM | I always rent a car |
| 21:27.26 | jftsang | come to Hong Kong :) |
| 21:27.37 | JeffM | and just roll down windows |
| 21:27.44 | JBdiGriz | Stay sober, it will help with sliding off the road. :) |
| 21:27.47 | brlcad | almost a shame you can't be both a mentor and a student, but it's probably a smart move |
| 21:28.14 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, I wish is was as simple as that. |
| 21:28.27 | JeffM | there are dirt roads involved. |
| 21:28.35 | L4m3r | maybe as a student for one project and a mentor for another |
| 21:28.38 | L4m3r | :P |
| 21:28.51 | JeffM | heh, otherwise your report would be "I did awesome!" |
| 21:28.57 | JBdiGriz | Not between you and AZ. Perhaps when you arrive? |
| 21:29.01 | L4m3r | hehe |
| 21:29.06 | Constitution | so we want to cut it off at 5 slots max? |
| 21:29.10 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, yeah thats where it's the worst |
| 21:29.14 | JeffM | the 40 is cake |
| 21:29.14 | brlcad | Erroneous: undoubtedly, that's why they don't allow it ;) |
| 21:29.31 | Erroneous | heh |
| 21:29.33 | JeffM | Constitution, I don't think we could handle more |
| 21:29.49 | brlcad | Constitution: yeah |
| 21:30.25 | JeffM | and paying taxes on more money then that would suck |
| 21:30.33 | Constitution | mmk |
| 21:30.35 | JeffM | unless we work up some way to mitigate that |
| 21:30.58 | brlcad | now that everyone has an idea of what's going on this time, I think we have a lot better chance to interact more effectively, but it is still going to take a lot of coordination/communication |
| 21:30.59 | Constitution | are we going to finish responding to last year's applications before we start accepting new ones? ;) |
| 21:31.05 | Constitution | indeed |
| 21:31.08 | JeffM | The BZFlag Foundation for Kids that Don't Shoot so well, does have a ring too it ;) |
| 21:31.19 | Erroneous | hah |
| 21:31.20 | Constitution | lol |
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| 21:32.07 | brlcad | hmm. almost the BFF K THXS SW |
| 21:32.33 | F687s__ | ew....but true. |
| 21:33.38 | JeffM | could make it "can't" instead of "don't" |
| 21:36.57 | F687s__ | You could easily accomplish that feat by forwarding players joining Missile Wars to Pillbox. ;-) |
| 21:37.21 | JeffM | yes but that would not give us tax exempt status ;) |
| 21:39.04 | JeffM | there are a couple of reasons to look into an org, money, longevity, etc.. |
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| 21:53.01 | Constitution | so for ideas... brlcad mentioned networking code... how serious are we about a 3D engine integration? |
| 21:53.13 | Constitution | I get the feeling sometimes that a lot of people wouldn't welcome it |
| 21:53.46 | Winny | Because then we'd loose suppost on platforms that 5 people use! uh oh! |
| 21:54.59 | brlcad | Constitution: it'd be supported, but that really is a pretty involved task and there are both technical and political issues |
| 21:56.02 | TheRedBaron | 3d engine integration where? in the network code or something more of a server side gamestate? |
| 21:56.04 | brlcad | we don't really have experts in any of them, so long-term longevity becomes a real major issue if it's just "hacked in there" |
| 21:56.38 | brlcad | even just refactoring the code so that there is a clear separation between the representation and the drawing is a pretty big task |
| 21:56.45 | Constitution | define "hacked in there", please |
| 21:56.49 | brlcad | we have opengl calls down in the weeds |
| 21:57.57 | JeffM | yeah, just making it so all the drawing code is in one place could be a project |
| 21:58.19 | brlcad | Constitution: shortest path to the end goal of getting it working -- e.g. if integrating with a left-handed engine, well just flip all the Y values everywhere in the code instead of actually making the engine work with us or refactoring the code so handedness isn't as much of a concern |
| 21:58.20 | JeffM | and I don't think people don't welcome a 3rd party engine, it's just that no real research has been done on what it means if we use one. |
| 21:58.47 | Constitution | ok |
| 21:58.49 | brlcad | I would welcome one done cleanly :) |
| 21:58.52 | JeffM | that flip would have to be done a LOT |
| 21:59.01 | JeffM | and it would make baby jesus cry |
| 21:59.09 | Winny | goodie |
| 21:59.10 | brlcad | I would welcome working with ogre :) |
| 21:59.31 | TheRedBaron | I thought tupone was working on a port/project to a 3rd party engine |
| 21:59.33 | brlcad | just from the mild research done to date, it seems to be one of the best fits technically and long-term |
| 21:59.39 | Constitution | so if it were done, and done properly, it wouldn't sit unused in svn like Tupone's CS branch? |
| 21:59.44 | JeffM | tupone was doing Cryslta space |
| 21:59.47 | brlcad | yeah, tupon made a lot of progress using CS |
| 22:00.08 | JeffM | Constitution, you'd also have to get other devs working in it |
| 22:00.11 | JeffM | that'd be the key |
| 22:00.19 | JeffM | so that it would be accepted |
| 22:00.37 | JeffM | if you were to do ogre for instance, I could see me working on it with you a lot |
| 22:00.41 | JeffM | even if I was not your mentor |
| 22:00.46 | Constitution | yeah, that would be cool |
| 22:00.54 | Constitution | we don't even have that many "active" devs these days |
| 22:00.56 | JeffM | no it'd be nessisary |
| 22:01.02 | brlcad | I think that just highlighted how big a task it is too -- he is pretty knowledgeable with bzflag's code and had some direct help from CS devs and it still took him several months to get to that point |
| 22:01.07 | Constitution | a necessary coolness :) |
| 22:01.08 | JeffM | it will actualy be a huge pain in the ass |
| 22:01.37 | JeffM | yeah it wold be imposible to expect a single SoC coder to just "bust" it out |
| 22:01.39 | brlcad | Constitution: if last year is any indication, gsoc also tends to "activate" devs too |
| 22:01.42 | JeffM | and expect it to be complete |
| 22:02.03 | JeffM | the big thign about it as a project, is that one has to be complete before we can release, cus it's basicly the entirety of the game |
| 22:02.08 | brlcad | at least without alienating the rest of the devs too |
| 22:02.08 | JeffM | so everyone has to be onboard with it. |
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| 22:02.26 | Constitution | right |
| 22:02.39 | JeffM | if we decide to go with an engine, I don't think it should be done in a branch |
| 22:02.54 | JeffM | we shoudl force everyone to work in it, to find all the issues. |
| 22:02.59 | JeffM | as much as possible |
| 22:03.14 | Constitution | that would be a fun 2.5 months with a dead client :) |
| 22:03.18 | JeffM | I'm sure there'd have to be some branch at first while the base was done, but you'd want to integrate it as soon as popssible. |
| 22:03.22 | JeffM | Constitution, welcome to devleoipment |
| 22:03.28 | Constitution | ah, right |
| 22:03.40 | brlcad | I don't think anyone should be on a branch if we can help it .. make people work incrementally with working code, resolve the integration and platform issues early |
| 22:03.48 | JeffM | indeed |
| 22:03.57 | JeffM | forces others to review the work too |
| 22:05.02 | JeffM | and yeah we'll loose some inital supprot for some platforms, I'm sure we'll deal |
| 22:05.22 | brlcad | at least for linux, windows, and mac |
| 22:05.27 | JeffM | it all comes down if the features we get are worth it |
| 22:05.34 | JeffM | with ogre, I think they are |
| 22:05.44 | JeffM | with OSG, I'm not sure it's worht the effort. |
| 22:05.48 | Constitution | all this talk of "politics," "accepted," and "the devs" gets me thinking... we have like < 10 people who commit to the code actively. How far will we go to keep "everyone" in accord? |
| 22:06.03 | JeffM | as far as we care to ;) |
| 22:06.03 | Constitution | although that's a noble goal, to be sure |
| 22:06.10 | brlcad | i think ogre supports or can easily support all the platforms we support |
| 22:06.13 | JeffM | it all depends on how much people complain |
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| 22:06.26 | JeffM | brlcad, irix and solaris are not on there list of "supported" os. |
| 22:06.34 | JeffM | but they probably build |
| 22:06.41 | rodrigo1694 | does anybody know where to go to find servers |
| 22:06.45 | brlcad | yeah, i saw somewhere that solaris works |
| 22:07.02 | JeffM | rodrigo1694, the "find servers" item in the join menu |
| 22:07.04 | brlcad | irix, dunno, but then someone with irix can help port it if it's really in demand |
| 22:07.12 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Getting_Started |
| 22:07.16 | JeffM | rodrigo1694, check out the getting started link |
| 22:07.19 | brlcad | there's nothing inherint that prevents it |
| 22:07.33 | rodrigo1694 | ok thanks |
| 22:07.38 | JeffM | brlcad, other then irix's irixness |
| 22:08.12 | JeffM | the only reason to mention it is that it has been said that it would be sad if a game that started on SGIs would no longer run under it. |
| 22:08.21 | JeffM | and with an engine change that may be a possibility |
| 22:08.36 | JeffM | even if it's only because noone has done the work to make said engine build on said platform. |
| 22:08.46 | JeffM | but then I guess that's there deal for geting out of dev ;) |
| 22:08.55 | brlcad | it's still not inherint in any engine selection -- I don't know of a platform that says they actively support irix either |
| 22:09.10 | awilcox | Uhm. "OpenGL Driver: GDI Generic"...? |
| 22:09.11 | JeffM | true |
| 22:09.29 | JeffM | awilcox, not using drivers from nvidia I take it? |
| 22:09.45 | awilcox | JeffM: oh right *downloads* |
| 22:10.00 | JeffM | Constitution/brlcad, nothign says we have to wait for SoC to start the engine project ether |
| 22:10.04 | JeffM | we start now |
| 22:10.15 | JeffM | and just throw up an idea of "Help these poor bastards" |
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| 22:10.50 | brlcad | cept the gsoc project needs to be measurable in some sense of progress |
| 22:11.08 | JeffM | they did say if we were happy, they were happy |
| 22:11.18 | brlcad | but yeah, I've thought that an engine really should come from inside, not a project |
| 22:11.27 | JeffM | and if all the SoC person does is help us get it working like it "used" to |
| 22:11.34 | JeffM | then that's measurable |
| 22:11.58 | JeffM | I mean no mater what they do, we'll have lines of code, etc.. to measure by |
| 22:12.10 | JeffM | I'd rather have that then the last 3 proejcts |
| 22:12.24 | JeffM | cus it's not like that code is being used on a daily basis |
| 22:12.39 | brlcad | heh, succeeding is a measure, but measureable throughout it isn't easily unless it's broken down into mini tasks (which is always possible) |
| 22:13.05 | Erroneous | JeffM: none of the last three are really "done" either. if they were more complete they might be in use on a daily basis |
| 22:13.19 | JeffM | exactly they arn't done |
| 22:13.23 | rodrigo1694 | yah I saw the getting started page but how do I get to the main menu |
| 22:13.23 | brlcad | meh, that code is only not being used because activity is lower than usual regardless -- it has nothing to do with the projects |
| 22:13.24 | awilcox | milestones |
| 22:13.30 | JeffM | rodrigo1694, run the game |
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| 22:13.47 | Erroneous | so adding another huge project to the list is just gonna mean we have another half-done thing that doesn't get used, regardless of what it is |
| 22:14.04 | rodrigo1694 | where to I run the game, do I need to download it |
| 22:14.06 | JeffM | Erroneous, thats why it should come from inside, and just have the SoCers work on it with us |
| 22:14.09 | L4m3r | heh... |
| 22:14.13 | Winny | rodrigo1694, read the page. |
| 22:14.20 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Getting_Started |
| 22:14.24 | L4m3r | just make one of the slots "finish all of last year's gsoc projects" |
| 22:14.26 | JeffM | rodrigo1694, read that artcile, it says what to do. if it's too complex ask your parents for help |
| 22:14.28 | brlcad | wishing for or relying on other devs to "make it happen" isn't so hot either |
| 22:14.34 | Erroneous | JeffM: just 'cause it's from "inside" (whatever the hell that means) doens't mean it'll get done |
| 22:14.43 | JeffM | no it dosn't |
| 22:14.51 | JeffM | nothing means it will get done |
| 22:14.59 | JeffM | it all comes back to proding |
| 22:15.05 | JeffM | Erroneous, I never said when |
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| 22:16.23 | JeffM | none of us have worked on bzflag like we wished we woudl have |
| 22:16.25 | JeffM | we never do |
| 22:16.31 | JeffM | needs proding |
| 22:16.39 | JeffM | poke poke poke |
| 22:16.48 | brlcad | and/or patience and/or different expectations/goals ;) |
| 22:16.57 | brlcad | we have moments of brilliance |
| 22:17.10 | brlcad | rarely is any effort sustained for very long until RL hits |
| 22:17.17 | JeffM | fires need to be stoked sometimes |
| 22:17.48 | brlcad | usually the activity itself stokes it |
| 22:17.59 | JeffM | not allways |
| 22:18.02 | brlcad | if someone is busy and interactive, others become busy and interactive |
| 22:18.39 | JeffM | that is one form of stoking |
| 22:18.40 | brlcad | never said always, just often the trend |
| 22:18.46 | Erroneous | we all have stuff unfinished...it's not about that. we shouldn't depend on non-soc'ers doing huge tasks, and we certainly shouldn't depend on soc'ers doing them. instead, we need to find ways to make them into smaller tasks, which can be reasonably accomplished. |
| 22:18.52 | awilcox | imo, this discussion is a waste of time that could be better spent IMPLEMENTING the shots thing or new netstack |
| 22:19.05 | Erroneous | awilcox: go for it |
| 22:19.22 | JeffM | why do we need a new netstack, what is wrong with the one we have? |
| 22:19.27 | awilcox | Erroneous: eh, I'm not sure what the shots thing is, and I tried to do the netstack but the current implementation isn't documented well enough |
| 22:19.45 | brlcad | awilcox: so document it, or contribute in some other way that helps |
| 22:19.47 | Erroneous | then perhaps the thing to do would be to document the current one? :) |
| 22:19.48 | JeffM | I think your core problem is your imediate insistnace that it be "new" |
| 22:20.06 | brlcad | armchairing it saying how you think it should be without doing anything doesn't help |
| 22:20.07 | JeffM | it needs more features ure |
| 22:20.08 | awilcox | JeffM: I don't recall what was wrong with it, but I remember someone telling me to go make a new one...or maybe it was a new protocol, I don't knkow |
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| 22:20.22 | JeffM | awilcox, it was nether, it was improve it |
| 22:20.27 | JeffM | you adde the replacement |
| 22:20.35 | Erroneous | we need network changes, sure. changes != "rip it a new one" :) |
| 22:20.37 | JeffM | but yeah, start at the begining, doc it if you want. |
| 22:20.46 | awilcox | Erroneous: :p |
| 22:20.56 | awilcox | JeffM: I think I will |
| 22:21.04 | JeffM | awilcox, talk about a pointless conversation, you just made one if your only responce is :P |
| 22:21.21 | brlcad | heck, having a clean network testing framework app that proxies protocol requests and visualizes the data would be a help |
| 22:21.37 | Erroneous | brlcad: not to mention that would make debugging way easier |
| 22:21.53 | brlcad | mm.. in-game dubug console |
| 22:21.57 | JeffM | considering network bugs take us 2 months to fix |
| 22:22.05 | brlcad | true remote server control |
| 22:22.12 | awilcox | brlcad: 'proxies' meaning man-in-the-middle, or something else? |
| 22:22.18 | Erroneous | brlcad: sounds remarkably like some logging improvement I was hearing about a while back... ;) |
| 22:22.28 | brlcad | yeah, talk about vapor *ahem* |
| 22:22.38 | JeffM | it all started with karma |
| 22:23.04 | Erroneous | karma got us a working list server and global registration |
| 22:23.05 | brlcad | a *piece* of bzauthd would still probably be a nice project |
| 22:23.12 | brlcad | heh yeah |
| 22:23.15 | brlcad | just never karma |
| 22:23.30 | JeffM | us? IIRC it was tim. then we fixed it |
| 22:23.33 | Erroneous | because it was broken down into nice chunks that could be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time & effort |
| 22:23.42 | brlcad | and spent months maintaining and refixing it |
| 22:24.36 | awilcox | ah, "GeForce 8600 GTS/PCI/SSE2" -- thanks much JeffM for reminding me to download drivers :) |
| 22:26.11 | brlcad | JeffM: thoughts on reverting the doMessages() changes? |
| 22:26.24 | JeffM | what change? |
| 22:27.37 | brlcad | I traced down the mac crashes to 'some' problem with BufferedNetworkMessageManager in doMessages |
| 22:28.02 | awilcox | 75 fps! SO NICE! :D |
| 22:28.11 | brlcad | i've not got a good trace, unfortunately, stack is stomped at just about every place I try to poke |
| 22:28.32 | Winny | heh awilcox |
| 22:28.54 | brlcad | seems like bad singleton constructor foo somewhere (perhaps even *completely* unrelated to doMessages .. but it specifically tips the scale) |
| 22:29.24 | JeffM | it's too hard to fix, so we just rever it all? |
| 22:29.42 | JeffM | so much for threaded networking then |
| 22:29.46 | brlcad | no, just the handling in that routine, then try to step things forward |
| 22:29.59 | JeffM | I honestly don't remember it |
| 22:30.05 | JeffM | so whatever you think |
| 22:30.18 | brlcad | I'm still trying a few things, but I'm running out of things to try |
| 22:30.34 | brlcad | I'd been compile testing through all the changes, but hadn't run-time tested in a while |
| 22:31.02 | brlcad | for some reason, the shouldGrabMouse() changes that called mainWindow->getFullscreen() were also hosed |
| 22:31.16 | brlcad | mainWindow was invalid, and from there it was randomness |
| 22:31.53 | Erroneous | mainwindow should never be invalid after initialization |
| 22:32.24 | brlcad | perhaps shouldGrabMouse() getting called before the window existed |
| 22:32.45 | Erroneous | first place it's called is after that iirc |
| 22:32.52 | brlcad | like I said, it could very well just be a symptom |
| 22:33.03 | brlcad | gdb is giving me sh** |
| 22:33.11 | Erroneous | unless there's some really funky stuff going on in whatever platformfactory you've got |
| 22:33.14 | brlcad | even to step forward from main() |
| 22:33.20 | Erroneous | nice |
| 22:33.37 | brlcad | that's why I think it's some static initializer doing bad things |
| 22:33.52 | brlcad | but .. how the heck do find/debug that |
| 22:34.22 | brlcad | I did trace back to exact commits that provoke a crash, they are very much on/off |
| 22:34.32 | Erroneous | disassemble it, step through the static constructors |
| 22:34.34 | brlcad | but still bizzare |
| 22:34.38 | brlcad | ugh |
| 22:34.45 | Erroneous | hey, you asked how... :) |
| 22:34.48 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:34.53 | brlcad | it was rhetorical |
| 22:35.09 | brlcad | hm, that does give me an idea though.. |
| 22:35.12 | JeffM | switch it all to raknet |
| 22:35.24 | brlcad | I doubt that'll change it |
| 22:35.34 | brlcad | I don't think it's actually BufferedNetworkMessageManager |
| 22:35.49 | JeffM | maybe your compiler dosn't like the name? |
| 22:35.55 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:36.01 | Erroneous | it is kinda long ;) |
| 22:36.03 | JeffM | noone likes my names |
| 22:36.11 | JeffM | yes, but it's VERY descriptive |
| 22:37.11 | brlcad | hm, I might see something interesting if I add a debug print statement in the singleton, just to see initialization order if anything |
| 22:37.33 | JeffM | windows GPX |
| 22:37.47 | JeffM | cus that makes as much sense as any of the last names |
| 22:38.10 | brlcad | Erroneous: when was the last time you valground? |
| 22:38.20 | Erroneous | Winny: as if "Windows Essential Business Server 2008 (x64) for medium-sized businesses" is not already long enough? |
| 22:38.37 | Erroneous | brlcad: mmm...January 2007 maybe? |
| 22:38.41 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:38.45 | brlcad | ok |
| 22:38.51 | Erroneous | definitely needs doing |
| 22:38.56 | Winny | Erroneous, Ultimate signed edition |
| 22:38.57 | Erroneous | we've had a bunch of core changes since then |
| 22:38.57 | brlcad | so maybe something to try there |
| 22:39.37 | Erroneous | I'll see if I can set it up here |
| 22:39.43 | brlcad | cool |
| 22:40.07 | Erroneous | heh, I think I have the only physical machine running linux in the building right now :) |
| 22:40.25 | brlcad | job security |
| 22:40.47 | brlcad | "oh noes! he's the only one with the root passwd!" |
| 22:41.42 | Erroneous | heh, honestly I have no idea what any of the passwords on it are anymore - it's been running continously since I installed it |
| 22:46.45 | JeffM | that machine isn't realy needed anymore for the job ;) |
| 22:47.07 | Winny | go unplug it :p |
| 22:47.26 | Erroneous | JeffM: well, Chris demo'ed the project to the resellers |
| 22:47.46 | JeffM | yeah but you think you'll have to regen the code again? or just keep editing it on windows? |
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| 22:48.04 | Erroneous | dunno |
| 22:48.18 | JeffM | and we could do it in a VM ;) |
| 22:48.30 | Erroneous | a lot of changes are easier to fix in the schema than in the generated code |
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| 22:48.40 | JeffM | I think the geode here has a copy of that linux install too |
| 22:48.42 | Erroneous | besides, this way I can test GC in wine :) |
| 22:49.43 | Erroneous | and sometime soon it will probably be possible to valgrind windows apps on wine |
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