| 00:00.56 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 00:04.58 | brlcad | some interesting stats just pulled up.. there are approx 70k-100k in-game player connections to the list server every day, spiking up about 20k-50k on the weekends |
| 00:05.31 | JeffM2501 | that many action=list? |
| 00:05.34 | brlcad | extrapolating, that means we presently have roughly/minimally 70M connection records on file since the new list server went live |
| 00:05.49 | Winny | brlcad, you moved to the new server already? |
| 00:05.49 | brlcad | about 30% are LIST, the other 70% are ADD |
| 00:05.57 | JeffM2501 | Adds are servers |
| 00:06.04 | brlcad | when players join |
| 00:06.09 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:06.29 | JeffM2501 | what'd be cool is to compare lists and adds to see how many have the same token |
| 00:06.34 | JeffM2501 | see how many that list actualy play |
| 00:06.47 | JeffM2501 | tho we'd have to give out bogus tokens |
| 00:06.50 | JeffM2501 | for nonreg |
| 00:07.14 | brlcad | so roughly 49M player connections over the past two years or so |
| 00:08.59 | brlcad | means across all players, all in all, the server list was hit roughly 5 million times last year .. nearly 14k times a day |
| 00:09.07 | awilcox | wowsers. |
| 00:09.25 | kjs | anyone good with iptables? |
| 00:09.35 | JeffM2501 | well 9.6k of those are just hearbeats |
| 00:09.40 | JeffM2501 | per day |
| 00:09.45 | JeffM2501 | assuming 200 servers |
| 00:10.10 | Winny | my webserver had 200k hits yesterday :D |
| 00:10.38 | JeffM2501 | hosting pr0n again? |
| 00:10.41 | Winny | haha |
| 00:10.48 | awilcox | Winny: What'd you doooo? |
| 00:10.59 | Winny | http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Does_it_ever_end |
| 00:11.16 | Winny | I dunno if Jeff considers that pr0n or not ;) |
| 00:11.16 | brlcad | JeffM2501: those were for the LISTs |
| 00:11.27 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, ahh |
| 00:12.16 | JeffM2501 | thats a lot of lists |
| 00:12.17 | brlcad | Winny: while `true` ; curl http://localhost > /dev/null ; done ? |
| 00:12.35 | Winny | brlcad, heh |
| 00:12.36 | JeffM2501 | can you get a report of the callsigns with the list? |
| 00:12.51 | awilcox | Winny: zomg...it looks like someone went a little overboard on the Photoshop effects >_> |
| 00:12.54 | JeffM2501 | see how many uniques on average in a day, and on average how many lists a single person does per day |
| 00:12.55 | brlcad | it'd take a really really long time |
| 00:13.05 | JeffM2501 | that it would |
| 00:13.07 | brlcad | i'd have to decompress all of the list server archives .. GB's of data |
| 00:13.09 | JeffM2501 | still be interesting data |
| 00:13.20 | JeffM2501 | and we know you don't hav that many gbs left ;) |
| 00:13.30 | JeffM2501 | new machine also an 80? |
| 00:13.32 | brlcad | actually it's back to normal |
| 00:13.38 | awilcox | brlcad: well when you find you are bored and you have cold pizza you need to warm up, put that CPU to use and decompress em :P |
| 00:13.44 | brlcad | the problem was database backups gone wild |
| 00:13.55 | JeffM2501 | and a brlcad tree I heard ;) |
| 00:13.58 | brlcad | it was accummulating 350M of backup data *daily* |
| 00:14.38 | JeffM2501 | but new machine is still an 80? |
| 00:14.38 | brlcad | so even after I cleared out a couple GB last weekend, it filled up quick |
| 00:14.38 | JeffM2501 | or did they get you on one of the 320 gig machiens? |
| 00:14.39 | brlcad | new one is 120 iirc |
| 00:14.47 | JeffM2501 | well thats an improvment |
| 00:14.48 | ryanakca | whats the name of the map editor that was created/worked on for GSoC last summer? |
| 00:14.54 | JeffM2501 | bzworkbench |
| 00:15.09 | ryanakca | JeffM2501: thanks :) |
| 00:15.12 | brlcad | I freed up 12GB, though, just by removing unnecessary database backups for a project that has a massive mysql database |
| 00:15.31 | brlcad | that's what stole the space |
| 00:15.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 00:15.39 | brlcad | just didn't see it when I scanned the du logs |
| 00:16.53 | brlcad | the backups get rolled over monthly and condensed from 30 to 1, but we're at the end of the month so it had 350M x 30days of backup data |
| 00:17.23 | JeffM2501 | that's a bit much |
| 00:17.25 | brlcad | last month we just didn't peak, so nobody noticed the increase/drop .. and it wasn't turned on until after christmas |
| 00:17.28 | JeffM2501 | change it to roll it every week? |
| 00:17.57 | brlcad | i changed it to only do that particular db every three days, so it'll only get up to 3GB now before rolling over |
| 00:18.03 | brlcad | everyone else still gets dailies/monthlies |
| 00:18.21 | JeffM2501 | bzbb dosn't need more then a couple days I'd think |
| 00:18.34 | brlcad | bzbb doesn't use much |
| 00:19.16 | brlcad | not even 10% the size of that big db |
| 00:19.28 | brlcad | 20MB or so for the boards iirc |
| 00:19.31 | JeffM2501 | what's the big db? |
| 00:19.35 | JeffM2501 | the pr0n |
| 00:19.43 | brlcad | it's an image project (heh, not pr0n) |
| 00:20.00 | JeffM2501 | RIIIGHHHTTT |
| 00:20.06 | awilcox | Lol. |
| 00:20.09 | jorgenpt | haha |
| 00:20.54 | ryanakca | JeffM2501: I'm guessing I can find it in the SVN? |
| 00:21.11 | brlcad | that 350MB dump is just the metadata too and some tiny thumbnails .. the actual images are about 18GB |
| 00:21.44 | JeffM2501 | ryanakca, yep |
| 00:22.08 | ryanakca | JeffM2501: kk |
| 00:22.39 | JeffM2501 | http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzworkbench/ |
| 00:26.40 | brlcad | hey jorgenpt .. the nick didn't click for a sec :) |
| 00:27.09 | brlcad | s/sec/many minutes/ |
| 00:27.14 | jorgenpt | I already explained myself once today! |
| 00:27.15 | jorgenpt | ;-) |
| 00:27.28 | jorgenpt | Sorry, I'm aware it's a bit bothersome when one changes a nick. ;) |
| 00:27.43 | brlcad | I no nothing about changing/using multiple nicks *ahem* |
| 00:28.47 | brlcad | macsforme: so it's uploaded now |
| 00:28.50 | jorgenpt | Hehe, ;-) |
| 00:28.55 | macsforme | cool :) |
| 00:29.19 | jorgenpt | Well, using multiple nicks is one thing, permanently changing is differnet. |
| 00:29.21 | jorgenpt | different* |
| 00:29.29 | brlcad | er to all, for that matter .. i'll write up the announcement later and associated summary wiki page later (unless someone wants to do it for me), but it's uploaded now |
| 00:29.42 | awilcox | I've got an idea that would be sooo awesome. Make an IRC client that keeps ttrack of nick changes :P |
| 00:29.47 | jorgenpt | If I'm curious who some unkown nick is, I usually /lastlog or grep, which sorts people like you out, brlcad. |
| 00:30.04 | jorgenpt | irssi does that for query windows ;) |
| 00:30.12 | jorgenpt | I guess you could write a script that does it in general. |
| 00:30.22 | brlcad | a note will go out on the GSoC list later to let the other projects see our write-up |
| 00:30.50 | jorgenpt | ;-) |
| 00:30.55 | awilcox | lastlog? |
| 00:30.58 | brlcad | jorgenpt: yeah, it was more fun to confuse the newbs .. because one was a massively active player, the other not |
| 00:31.06 | KTL | Usage: LASTLOG <string>, searches for a string in the buffer |
| 00:31.09 | jorgenpt | haha ;-) |
| 00:31.11 | awilcox | OooooooOOooOOOOOoooOOOOOooooo. |
| 00:31.28 | brlcad | ktl: or its shorthand /last |
| 00:31.49 | brlcad | Here it is: http://my.bzflag.org/gsoc/bzflag_gsoc2007_post_mortem.pdf |
| 00:32.29 | brlcad | it was going to be published, and I went back and forth with the publisher on the details but it would have required a complete reformatting and separation of the images |
| 00:32.39 | awilcox | Oh yay, I get to debug bzflag again >_> |
| 00:32.44 | brlcad | just wasn't worth the effort in the end, so just going to put it out there |
| 00:32.46 | KTL | 14.8 mb |
| 00:33.02 | awilcox | Unless one of you guys know what this means: |
| 00:33.06 | awilcox | ServerLink::read() loop |
| 00:33.11 | awilcox | ^ that's in red, and the game is froze |
| 00:33.25 | brlcad | KTL: yeah, 15497230 bytes |
| 00:33.43 | awilcox | and now "Server has unexpectedly disconnected" |
| 00:34.02 | brlcad | it's intended for printing, high res print-quality images embedded |
| 00:34.08 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 00:34.13 | awilcox | and now bzflag is locked again |
| 00:34.25 | awilcox | is this my laptop's final goodbye, is or bz just being weird? |
| 00:34.37 | donny_baker | awilcox: usually see those on flag resets |
| 00:34.44 | awilcox | nope, no flag reset |
| 00:34.55 | awilcox | and even after disconnect it was locking and then unlocking |
| 00:35.25 | awilcox | OMH |
| 00:35.27 | awilcox | *omg |
| 00:35.35 | awilcox | STOP error |
| 00:35.59 | awilcox | 3a844532 *** FA312nd5.sys - Address F7A21B37 base at F7A21000, DateStamp |
| 00:36.11 | awilcox | the screen is all buggered, bzflag was changing resolutions |
| 00:36.15 | awilcox | great. |
| 00:37.28 | brlcad | credits are at the end, but thanks especially to those of you that helped with the proof-reading, copy-editing, and content |
| 00:37.35 | awilcox | NetGear O_o I don't even have a NetGear |
| 00:37.52 | Winny | brrrr |
| 00:37.53 | Winny | cold |
| 00:37.56 | brlcad | most importantly, thanks to your four students .. gave us a lot to think about, learn, and chew on for next year |
| 00:38.04 | awilcox | er...should I go to #bzchat now? |
| 00:38.10 | JeffM2501 | and a lot of beer |
| 00:38.22 | awilcox | cus this is kinda still bzflag related, but it may be just my laptop being...weird |
| 00:38.27 | brlcad | yeah, thanks for the beer :) |
| 00:38.34 | jorgenpt | It's strange how three separately pleasant flavours can - when mixed in a burp - taste awful together. Take this instance; a delicious meal of some salad with goast cheese in it, an evening snack of garlic-drenched olives and some late-night beers - turned into something nauseating just now. :-/ |
| 00:38.38 | JeffM2501 | awilcox, mostly you just don't need to tell us every step |
| 00:38.39 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 00:38.56 | awilcox | okay, when I get some meat I'll let ya know |
| 00:39.03 | brlcad | jorgenpt: goatse cheese? aw god that sounds nasty no matter what you mix it with... |
| 00:39.12 | jorgenpt | goats cheese, even. |
| 00:39.15 | jorgenpt | brlcad: huhu. :p |
| 00:39.15 | brlcad | hehe |
| 00:39.22 | Constitution | brlcad: and thanks for all the work you put into making GSoC happen for BZFlag :) |
| 00:39.43 | Winny | aww, Epyon left |
| 00:39.54 | Winny | just as I was going to give him his 8 month late textures too |
| 00:39.56 | Winny | oh well :p |
| 00:40.22 | jorgenpt | Hey, I feel naive. You said three hundred pages, and I actually bought it. :p |
| 00:40.26 | brlcad | Constitution: it took the efforts of a lot of folks, everyone deserves a bow |
| 00:40.33 | Constitution | indeed |
| 00:40.34 | brlcad | jorgenpt: heh |
| 00:41.26 | jorgenpt | (mostly since you talked about publishing it and that) |
| 00:41.56 | brlcad | if we decide to particpate again (and are subsequently approved to participate), you guys should definitely submit again ;) |
| 00:42.10 | jorgenpt | \o/ Thanks :) |
| 00:42.10 | brlcad | yeah, it was going to be an article in a magazine |
| 00:42.18 | jorgenpt | Was great fun and good learning |
| 00:42.30 | brlcad | we'll undoubtedly do a lot of things differently |
| 00:42.32 | jorgenpt | Btw, the gsoc logo of '07 was pretty cool. |
| 00:43.36 | jorgenpt | But the head on the back of the tshirt was kinda .. 'wtf' in contrast |
| 00:43.42 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:43.46 | brlcad | there was a story behind that |
| 00:43.51 | brlcad | but I forget what she said |
| 00:46.47 | jorgenpt | Hey, I'm quoted. :o |
| 00:47.02 | jorgenpt | For some reason, that quote had a surreal feeling about it |
| 00:47.32 | jorgenpt | It's just like they do in articles in magazines and papers .. except it has my name attached ;) |
| 00:48.08 | awilcox | hehe :D |
| 00:48.09 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:50.05 | jorgenpt | Btw, this article will be permanently online, but not published in any publication - correct? |
| 00:50.23 | jorgenpt | I realize that perhaps it would be useful to reference this paper in my CV. :-) |
| 00:53.32 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 00:54.55 | jorgenpt | But I must say, brlcad, much kudos on the post-mortem. Well written, and the layout is readable and clear (not to mention aesthetically pleasing ;). |
| 01:00.06 | brlcad | thanks, I try |
| 01:00.23 | JeffM2501 | you told me you hired monkies to type it! |
| 01:00.24 | brlcad | and yeah, it'll be permanently on-line, but not published afaik |
| 01:01.04 | jorgenpt | Guess I can put an URL in my CV if I ever feel the need to include that reference :-) |
| 01:01.14 | brlcad | lots of monkies, paid them in goat cheese |
| 01:01.23 | JeffM2501 | the good or bad kind? |
| 01:01.31 | JeffM2501 | and bobo is lactose intolerant |
| 01:01.41 | brlcad | i don't think they know the difference |
| 01:01.55 | JeffM2501 | poor monkies |
| 01:02.09 | brlcad | could explain why they all died |
| 01:05.20 | donny_baker | winny pong |
| 01:06.23 | donny_baker | unpongs* |
| 01:06.37 | brlcad | :) |
| 01:07.50 | Winny | put the pong back in! |
| 01:07.54 | brlcad | ~plug Winny |
| 01:08.04 | brlcad | aww |
| 01:08.09 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:11.24 | Winny | ~blame brlcad |
| 01:16.42 | donny_baker | any opinions about this page? http://my.bzflag.org/w/Subtle_Cheats |
| 01:16.53 | donny_baker | it has been massively edited by coogle |
| 01:18.02 | brlcad | seems rather honest to me |
| 01:18.26 | donny_baker | that was my thought, but wanted a second opinion |
| 01:19.34 | brlcad | yeah, not a favorite subject, but as far as talking about that subject, it's seems pretty darn good to me especially with the warning and diction clarifications they made |
| 01:20.10 | donny_baker | yeah, he has made ~25 revisions to that page over the last week or two |
| 01:20.24 | donny_baker | he really has a passion for cheat clients :P |
| 01:20.31 | brlcad | seems they're editing per wikipedia rules too, the bigger mods were to remove/clarify subjective and time-specific statements and claims |
| 01:22.10 | brlcad | hopefully they'll expand on other documents next ;) |
| 01:22.37 | brlcad | it's not really promoting them, just being rather clear about what they are |
| 01:29.07 | jorgenpt | Knowing is half the battle! |
| 01:29.14 | jorgenpt | Or |
| 01:29.24 | jorgenpt | Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer! |
| 01:30.40 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:31.59 | jorgenpt | Any player in the game can cause anyone else's bullets to explode prematurely (if their client is hacked). |
| 01:32.02 | jorgenpt | Wow. :o |
| 01:34.19 | ryanakca | heh |
| 01:34.47 | brlcad | jorgenpt: yeah, lots of problems with that... |
| 01:35.06 | brlcad | cheating became a fair bit more advanced over the past year |
| 01:35.21 | jorgenpt | Some parts of the netcode / state in bzflag could've been better designed, to be honest. :-) |
| 01:35.25 | brlcad | side effect of not getting our new release our the door in time |
| 01:35.38 | brlcad | it takes the cheaters a while to update to new sources when we break protocol |
| 01:35.49 | jorgenpt | Hehe :-) |
| 01:35.58 | jorgenpt | Yeah, I guess only a few of them are truly decent coders. |
| 01:36.09 | brlcad | yep, the net design we still have in place is really designed for lan gameplay |
| 01:36.20 | brlcad | where if someone is cheating, you walk over and punch them |
| 01:36.30 | jorgenpt | hehehe |
| 01:36.34 | ryanakca | lol |
| 01:37.33 | jorgenpt | That'd be hilarious. |
| 01:37.48 | jorgenpt | You ended up on a lan party, and realized that brlcad was the 'master hacker' ;-) |
| 01:39.29 | brlcad | hehe |
| 01:39.29 | jorgenpt | Any way, good night. :-) |
| 01:39.34 | brlcad | jorgenpt: cya :) |
| 01:39.49 | Winny | gotta admit, those shot lines would be cool for 3.0 :p |
| 01:40.22 | awilcox | GOT IT |
| 01:40.29 | Erroneous | it's easy to do, but won't be done |
| 01:40.31 | awilcox | Okay, I made it crash and I'm in the Windows debugger prompt |
| 01:40.35 | jorgenpt | Apropos lan parties; this year I'll be Tech:Server (crew) at The Gathering, if anyone (againts all odds) are attending. ;) |
| 01:40.42 | ryanakca | Winny: I'm guessing they're like the current shot lines, just longer? |
| 01:40.44 | awilcox | it says the error is SPIN_LOCK_ALREADY_OWNED (STOP error 0xf) |
| 01:40.50 | Winny | ryanakca, no |
| 01:40.54 | Winny | they show the ricos |
| 01:41.08 | ryanakca | Winny: ah :) |
| 01:41.09 | brlcad | jorgenpt: also fyi, there are still plans to have a bot contest |
| 01:41.09 | awilcox | this was while I was quitting bzflag -- it also wouldn't give me bzflag debug symbols :( |
| 01:41.15 | brlcad | soonish |
| 01:41.22 | Winny | progressive identify.. sheesh |
| 01:41.33 | Winny | that's actually a cool idea.. even if it is a cheat.. new gamemode? |
| 01:41.45 | awilcox | now...my question is, what part of the bugcheck dump do I need to give you to help me try and fix this? |
| 01:42.17 | brlcad | those rico lines are already computed by the client too, it's just we don't draw them |
| 01:42.27 | brlcad | the cheat is trivial, we did most of the work for them |
| 01:42.38 | jorgenpt | Cool, brlcad. |
| 01:42.44 | jorgenpt | Guess I'll need to do some work before then |
| 01:42.49 | Erroneous | awilcox: that's an error in kernelspace code. not our business. |
| 01:42.52 | jorgenpt | First step'll be to identify what actually needs to be done |
| 01:43.06 | brlcad | jorgenpt: i made some updates a little while ago and have started cleaning up some |
| 01:43.20 | jorgenpt | Cleaning up my code, or the client/robot separation? |
| 01:43.29 | jorgenpt | Also, what updates? (If you can summarize them) |
| 01:43.32 | awilcox | Erroneous: So even though bzflag (seems to be) the only app that causes this, it isn't your business and you can't help? |
| 01:43.44 | brlcad | the idea would be to make a bot kit with a couple example C++ and Python bots, precompiled binaries for a few platforms |
| 01:44.03 | brlcad | general code cleanup, didn't change any behavior (yet) |
| 01:44.07 | Erroneous | yup :) you have some driver that is trying to (most likely) recursively acquire a spin lock. find out what driver it is and contact the appropriate vendor. |
| 01:44.25 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Okay |
| 01:44.34 | brlcad | even if the bots are limited, if the players can see a simple example, it'll be enough to get a competition going |
| 01:44.56 | ryanakca | how do you convert from .obj to .bzw? |
| 01:45.05 | jorgenpt | Limited, or useless? ;-) |
| 01:45.07 | brlcad | the biggest effort will be getting things to work on windows |
| 01:45.17 | ryanakca | nevermind :) |
| 01:45.19 | jorgenpt | awilcox: Try memtest86? |
| 01:45.23 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Yeah :S |
| 01:45.31 | brlcad | since that requires changes to the way it's doing the dynamic loading |
| 01:45.47 | brlcad | and/or massive changes to the client code |
| 01:46.33 | awilcox | jorgenpt: been thinking about that =/ |
| 01:46.50 | brlcad | the only delay will be any cleanup so that we can push 3.0 out the door |
| 01:47.02 | brlcad | since it talks current protocol only iirc |
| 01:47.22 | brlcad | would be interesting if it backports to 2.0 |
| 01:49.01 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 01:49.06 | nn-main | hi all |
| 01:49.25 | Winny | hi |
| 01:49.40 | nn-main | im working on a new map of my own |
| 01:49.40 | brlcad | howdy nn-main |
| 01:49.53 | nn-main | is called stage war |
| 01:50.16 | nn-main | so far it has 754 boxes |
| 01:50.35 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 01:50.52 | awilcox | er |
| 01:50.53 | Winny | heh |
| 01:50.56 | nn-main | basically 2 wars on a moddle of a performance stage |
| 01:51.01 | nn-main | stud wall and all |
| 01:51.05 | Winny | nn-main, WIP forum :) |
| 01:51.13 | awilcox | jorgenpt: is it normal for the fans to kick WAY up when MemTest86+ is running? |
| 01:51.29 | awilcox | it sounds (and feels) like I'm running SETI/Prime95 or something |
| 01:52.24 | nn-main | im editing it in bze one of the best editers i came across so far |
| 01:53.42 | Winny | nn-main, "bze"? |
| 01:53.48 | Winny | do you mean BZEdit? |
| 01:54.11 | nn-main | no bze a linux bzflag editer made in m2 programming language |
| 01:54.17 | awilcox | nn-main: bzwb <3 |
| 01:57.40 | Winny | awilcox, make it work |
| 01:57.47 | Winny | as in, all 2.0 stuff :) |
| 01:58.30 | jorgenpt | awilcox: Well, I guess it'd use a bit of CPU. I guess the main part of the program is just a -long- loop that writes a pattern to various memory locations, then reads them and compares them? |
| 01:58.48 | jorgenpt | Anyway |
| 01:58.49 | jorgenpt | GOOD NIGHT. |
| 02:02.34 | *** join/#bzflag think__tank (n=think_ta@c-71-194-147-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 02:04.16 | brlcad | such a great presentation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFDm3UYkeE (for those that haven't seen it yet still) |
| 02:06.12 | *** join/#bzflag Blizzard- (n=chatzill@user-0c8hvrd.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:06.26 | Blizzard- | Hey nn. |
| 02:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:21.48 | Winny | batman |
| 02:21.50 | Winny | BATMAN! |
| 02:34.54 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_nokia (n=blast007@pdpc/supporter/active/blast007) |
| 02:34.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v blast007_nokia] by ChanServ |
| 02:35.03 | Winny | hi blast007_nokia |
| 02:35.53 | blast007_nokia | yp |
| 02:35.58 | blast007_nokia | yo* |
| 02:36.24 | Winny | hehe |
| 02:39.13 | awilcox | Blargh, been through 2 1/10ths memtests and no errors. |
| 02:39.24 | awilcox | I just want it to print an error so I can just fix it =/ |
| 02:39.59 | *** join/#bzflag retro (n=ksumrall@wall.danger.com) |
| 02:43.39 | awilcox | there is one weirdness with Memtest86+: the WallTime counter. it goes like this <with 4 dots representing one second>: 00....01....02.......03..04...05....06....07....08....09 |
| 02:44.58 | blast007_nokia | only the shadow knows |
| 02:46.18 | JeffM | suck it trebek! |
| 02:47.58 | awilcox | blast007_nokia: hehe. |
| 02:48.14 | awilcox | blast007_nokia: wait, you're on a Nokia Internet tablet? |
| 02:48.23 | blast007_nokia | yeah |
| 02:48.23 | Winny | N900 IIRC |
| 02:48.28 | blast007_nokia | n800 |
| 02:48.32 | Winny | err, yeah |
| 02:49.59 | Winny | brlcad, were you there for this live? |
| 02:50.21 | JeffM | suck it nokia! |
| 02:50.24 | brlcad | no, that was jan last year after the 2006 GSoC |
| 02:50.33 | awilcox | based on an TI OMAP2420 (based itself on an ARM11), I see. |
| 02:50.34 | Winny | ah |
| 02:50.48 | awilcox | JeffM: my laptop's hardware is buggering. |
| 02:51.04 | JeffM | cool, time for upgrade then |
| 02:51.10 | awilcox | >_> |
| 02:51.13 | Winny | :) |
| 02:51.22 | awilcox | You were supposed to say 'suck it laptop's hardware!' |
| 02:54.41 | awilcox | No wonder memtest passed. It's using freaking cache. |
| 02:54.42 | awilcox | >_> |
| 02:57.07 | inchworm | it shouldn't be |
| 02:57.27 | inchworm | or what i should be saying is yes it uses cache, but the cache has to still go out to main memory |
| 02:58.26 | JeffM | it should do one test with and one with out |
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| 05:40.43 | brlcad | new details and layout at http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code |
| 05:41.13 | brlcad | still could use some more work like a succint summary, but it's a start |
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| 06:30.07 | JeffM | ok, sagonet does have a prety sweet controll pannel |
| 06:30.31 | a_meteorite | you ordered a sagonet? |
| 06:30.35 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:30.38 | a_meteorite | which? |
| 06:30.46 | JeffM | 2 gig P4 |
| 06:30.56 | JeffM | have the full history of the device as they are hooking it up :) |
| 06:31.08 | a_meteorite | nice |
| 06:31.10 | JeffM | it was built in september |
| 06:33.30 | JeffM | basicly it was between 400mhz of CPU and 240gigs of drive space between the 2 providers |
| 06:36.45 | JeffM | how's your host working out? |
| 06:38.14 | JeffM | the 46$ sagonet deal isn't bad for what you get |
| 06:38.21 | JeffM | we wanted more ram and CPU |
| 06:38.31 | blast007 | JeffM: let's just say that nn's setup is probably more reliable than what a_met got ;) |
| 06:38.49 | JeffM | so he didn't get the hardware issues resolved? |
| 06:39.03 | JeffM | or is that just what he gets for a refurb machine? |
| 06:39.05 | a_meteorite | yeah, and they're not refunding either |
| 06:39.21 | JeffM | that's common on refurb |
| 06:39.25 | JeffM | no refunds |
| 06:39.28 | a_meteorite | http://bzfx.net/paste/9 and http://bzfx.net/paste/10 |
| 06:39.33 | a_meteorite | may be taking them to small claims |
| 06:39.37 | JeffM | if it was good as new they'd sell it as new |
| 06:39.48 | JeffM | how much did they charge you? |
| 06:39.57 | a_meteorite | $125 set-up, $35 month |
| 06:40.06 | a_meteorite | so $160 out of pocket first month |
| 06:40.22 | JeffM | and did the contract say no refunds? |
| 06:40.44 | a_meteorite | er.. I'd need to check actually... |
| 06:41.10 | JeffM | it probably did |
| 06:41.12 | JeffM | they all do |
| 06:41.25 | JeffM | you did get what you paid for |
| 06:41.28 | JeffM | refurb hardware |
| 06:41.31 | blast007 | "SETUP FEES ON DEDICATED SERVERS ARE NON REFUNDABLE." |
| 06:42.03 | JeffM | so for that pittance of money, you'd basicly spend more then the 35$ in court fees |
| 06:42.11 | JeffM | and your time |
| 06:42.38 | a_meteorite | well, if I won, they'd pay fees |
| 06:42.45 | a_meteorite | my time is worth it to prove a point |
| 06:42.55 | JeffM | are they even in the same STATE as you? |
| 06:42.59 | a_meteorite | no |
| 06:43.06 | a_meteorite | which makes it even that much harder >_< |
| 06:43.08 | JeffM | then you are going to have a VERY hard time |
| 06:43.11 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:43.15 | JeffM | you made a bad call |
| 06:43.17 | JeffM | deal with it |
| 06:43.36 | a_meteorite | I'm still going to try, it can't hurt |
| 06:43.40 | JeffM | sure it can |
| 06:44.01 | JeffM | if you have a valid small claims case in the next 18 months, you are jacked |
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| 06:44.14 | JeffM | since you will be considered to be 'abbusing' the system. |
| 06:44.21 | a_meteorite | why the next 18 months? |
| 06:44.34 | JeffM | because the courts don't take people that small claims the crap out of people |
| 06:44.42 | JeffM | so you get one every 18 months |
| 06:44.49 | JeffM | to cut down on fraudulent claims |
| 06:45.05 | JeffM | basicly wasting the taxpayers money |
| 06:45.05 | a_meteorite | is that some sort of law? |
| 06:45.11 | JeffM | in most states, yes |
| 06:45.27 | JeffM | the fees they charge do NOT cover the costs of everyones time |
| 06:45.34 | JeffM | so you are wasting money |
| 06:45.41 | JeffM | because you didn' do enough research |
| 06:45.55 | JeffM | and you will have a hard time proving to a judge about trace routes and pings |
| 06:46.02 | a_meteorite | doesn't give them the right to give me service worse than they advertise |
| 06:46.09 | JeffM | something that is NOT mentioned in the specs if what you purchases |
| 06:46.23 | JeffM | they said they would give you X bandwith on Y machine |
| 06:46.24 | JeffM | they did |
| 06:46.31 | JeffM | they didn't say that it would have lag spikes |
| 06:46.34 | JeffM | woudln't |
| 06:46.50 | JeffM | no ISP will ensure ping or packet thruput |
| 06:47.08 | JeffM | since the nature of the internet takes a lot of that out of there controll |
| 06:47.32 | a_meteorite | this is beyond guaranteeing... |
| 06:47.43 | a_meteorite | I mean, they even said it would get fixed the next day, never did |
| 06:47.51 | JeffM | so |
| 06:47.55 | a_meteorite | by their own admission, the traceroutes are unacceptable |
| 06:47.57 | JeffM | that is not in the contract that you signed |
| 06:47.59 | JeffM | so |
| 06:48.04 | JeffM | has NOTHING to do with the contract |
| 06:48.19 | JeffM | and it does look like they are trying to work with you |
| 06:48.35 | JeffM | did they say "sorry that's the best we can do" or "we are working on it" and you just got impatient? |
| 06:48.36 | a_meteorite | like not fixing it? |
| 06:48.42 | JeffM | what did they SAY? |
| 06:48.46 | a_meteorite | JeffM: http://bzfx.net/paste/9 |
| 06:49.07 | JeffM | that is after you canceled |
| 06:49.11 | JeffM | what about before |
| 06:49.13 | a_meteorite | heck, they got it rigged so root can't even edit all files... I really don't know how, but hey... |
| 06:49.17 | a_meteorite | I haven't cancelled |
| 06:49.22 | JeffM | but you asked to cancel |
| 06:49.29 | a_meteorite | it's not cancelled |
| 06:49.30 | JeffM | that is the responce to you asking for money back |
| 06:49.34 | a_meteorite | in order to cancel, I need to contact sales |
| 06:49.38 | JeffM | that is not what you sue for |
| 06:49.46 | JeffM | you are suing for what happend BEFORE |
| 06:49.53 | a_meteorite | before what? |
| 06:50.13 | JeffM | what did they say they'd do with the problem? |
| 06:50.19 | JeffM | that they can't find it? |
| 06:50.25 | a_meteorite | http://bzfx.net/paste/10 |
| 06:50.33 | JeffM | or that they foudn it and refuse to replace what is broken |
| 06:50.38 | a_meteorite | basically that they were working on it and check tomorrow, they said that on two occasions |
| 06:50.45 | JeffM | ok |
| 06:50.47 | JeffM | so they are working on it |
| 06:50.53 | a_meteorite | no, they stopped working on it |
| 06:51.11 | JeffM | and what happend when you asked them why they closed the ticket? |
| 06:51.14 | a_meteorite | the administrators said their network is not having issues |
| 06:51.20 | JeffM | then they can't find the problem |
| 06:51.33 | JeffM | it may be further upstream from them |
| 06:51.37 | JeffM | nature of the net |
| 06:51.40 | JeffM | you will LOSE that case |
| 06:51.44 | a_meteorite | then they should really get some different transit |
| 06:51.44 | JeffM | and end up paying more |
| 06:51.44 | blast007 | or it may be the server itself that is bad :P |
| 06:51.47 | JeffM | also, how old are you? |
| 06:51.53 | a_meteorite | 17 |
| 06:51.56 | a_meteorite | my mom would file |
| 06:52.10 | a_meteorite | she really hates that this has happened |
| 06:52.12 | JeffM | that means your mom has to argue the case |
| 06:52.15 | JeffM | not you |
| 06:52.30 | JeffM | they will tell the judge that they provided the service they advertised ( because they did ) |
| 06:52.33 | JeffM | and you will loose |
| 06:52.35 | a_meteorite | I'm the one running the server, so I would think I would fall under "witness" in this case |
| 06:52.37 | JeffM | you made a bad call, pick it |
| 06:52.45 | JeffM | witness is only for crimial cases ;) |
| 06:52.50 | JeffM | I've been to small claims court |
| 06:53.00 | JeffM | the judge will look at the contract |
| 06:53.06 | a_meteorite | k, well, I can move on then file when I'm 18 :) |
| 06:53.10 | a_meteorite | I still want to stick it to them |
| 06:53.17 | JeffM | and ask you what sentance they violated |
| 06:53.25 | JeffM | who paid for this service, you or your mom? |
| 06:53.39 | a_meteorite | me |
| 06:53.41 | JeffM | and who signed the contract |
| 06:53.42 | JeffM | you? |
| 06:53.44 | a_meteorite | me |
| 06:53.51 | JeffM | then the contract is null and void |
| 06:53.55 | JeffM | you are underage |
| 06:53.58 | think_tank | yup |
| 06:54.09 | JeffM | they are not bound to do anything for you |
| 06:54.16 | JeffM | good job of sending them money |
| 06:54.22 | a_meteorite | as far as they know, mom did it |
| 06:54.31 | JeffM | who's name is on the contract? |
| 06:54.36 | a_meteorite | mom gave the heads up, she couldn't work the computer to save her life |
| 06:54.37 | JeffM | and who's billing info is it? |
| 06:54.44 | *** part/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-76-88-96-237.san.res.rr.com) |
| 06:54.49 | JeffM | you can't screw over the judges, you will loose |
| 06:54.52 | JeffM | trust me |
| 06:54.57 | a_meteorite | an alias |
| 06:54.59 | a_meteorite | aliases are perfectly legal as long as they aren't used for fraud |
| 06:55.08 | JeffM | oh god |
| 06:55.12 | JeffM | dude you are so screwed |
| 06:55.21 | JeffM | good luck |
| 06:55.30 | JeffM | let me know when you pay your mom back the 500$ |
| 06:55.40 | a_meteorite | small claims fees does not cost that much |
| 06:55.41 | JeffM | or more |
| 06:55.51 | JeffM | it will when they counter sue your mom for expenses |
| 06:56.04 | JeffM | they will not loose money on it |
| 06:56.14 | a_meteorite | expenses because of *what*? |
| 06:56.16 | JeffM | you file |
| 06:56.29 | JeffM | they have to send someone to the court you file at |
| 06:56.31 | JeffM | travel |
| 06:56.33 | a_meteorite | they'd probably want to settle |
| 06:56.46 | JeffM | no, they will have there lawer send you a letter saying you have no claims |
| 06:56.49 | JeffM | and you will go away |
| 06:56.58 | JeffM | they are not at fault |
| 06:57.00 | a_meteorite | you can't have a lawyer in small claims |
| 06:57.03 | a_meteorite | in most states |
| 06:57.06 | JeffM | in court |
| 06:57.18 | JeffM | but they will STILL send you a letter from the lawer saying if you proceide you are screwed |
| 06:57.41 | JeffM | are you going to sue a person, or the corporation? |
| 06:57.58 | a_meteorite | the corporation |
| 06:58.10 | JeffM | then they can send any duly apointed corporare representive |
| 06:58.19 | JeffM | like oh say that laywer they have on staff |
| 06:58.22 | a_meteorite | well that's just great |
| 06:58.28 | JeffM | you made a bad choice |
| 06:58.32 | JeffM | it's life |
| 06:58.34 | JeffM | deal with it |
| 06:58.36 | a_meteorite | $160 worth |
| 06:58.40 | JeffM | yeah so |
| 06:58.46 | a_meteorite | $160 of donations |
| 06:58.46 | JeffM | accept responsibility |
| 06:58.49 | blast007 | at least you didn't pay for a whole year ;) |
| 06:58.50 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:58.55 | JeffM | you made a bad choice |
| 06:58.56 | a_meteorite | well, I have more than that in paypal |
| 06:59.01 | a_meteorite | it's the point they took me for that |
| 06:59.09 | JeffM | they didn't take you |
| 06:59.19 | JeffM | you purchased somethign that was not adiquite for your needs |
| 06:59.25 | JeffM | that is YOUR choice |
| 06:59.38 | a_meteorite | and that's hard to tell based on just getting it when they advertise their network the way they do |
| 06:59.50 | JeffM | that's your interpertation |
| 06:59.56 | JeffM | not what the law says |
| 07:00.03 | JeffM | that's why you research the company |
| 07:00.20 | JeffM | and I mean seriously, was that company worth the what? 16$ you saved over sagonet? |
| 07:00.36 | a_meteorite | I thought it would be good.. |
| 07:00.47 | JeffM | well you were wrong |
| 07:00.51 | JeffM | welcome to the real world |
| 07:00.53 | a_meteorite | obviously |
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| 07:01.18 | JeffM | best thing for you to do, see if they can replace the nick |
| 07:01.29 | JeffM | try to work with them in resolving it |
| 07:01.42 | JeffM | beucase they are probably correct, the network dosn't have an issue they can see |
| 07:01.57 | JeffM | if it did, noone would use them and they'd not be in biz |
| 07:02.04 | a_meteorite | what if the NIC isn't the problem? could they charge me or something? |
| 07:02.28 | JeffM | so instead of threatenaing them and trying to pull out in a snap desciion ( the problem that GOT you into the mess(s)) work it out |
| 07:02.41 | JeffM | if you are acutaly NICE to them, probalby not |
| 07:02.48 | JeffM | if you threaten them, they probalby will |
| 07:02.48 | a_meteorite | I posted the whole ticket |
| 07:02.57 | a_meteorite | I haven't threatened them at all, except for a full refund |
| 07:03.00 | JeffM | you did not pay for new hardware |
| 07:03.01 | blast007 | "500 packets transmitted, 500 received, 0% packet loss, time 7867ms" |
| 07:03.11 | a_meteorite | blast007: that's the thing, only UDP gets dropped |
| 07:03.11 | JeffM | what's the IP? |
| 07:03.19 | a_meteorite | 69.94.77.183 |
| 07:03.34 | JeffM | dude, UDP is unreliable |
| 07:03.35 | JeffM | by nature |
| 07:03.39 | a_meteorite | 20% of UDP? |
| 07:03.46 | a_meteorite | every 30 seconds going NR? |
| 07:03.47 | JeffM | UDP has no resend |
| 07:03.50 | a_meteorite | that's pretty extreme |
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| 07:04.01 | JeffM | you on wireless? |
| 07:04.03 | blast007 | JeffM: I had better UDP reliability on my 56k modem |
| 07:04.04 | a_meteorite | something is wrong somewhere |
| 07:04.05 | a_meteorite | no |
| 07:04.13 | blast007 | JeffM: no, it was doing it for everyone |
| 07:04.15 | a_meteorite | this happens to others |
| 07:04.24 | awilcox | a_meteorite: UDP is specifically designed to be unreliable, and I'd go so far as to say that even if they DID give you an SLA it would not cover UDP |
| 07:04.28 | JeffM | then what you have to do is get some sort of test to show them |
| 07:04.29 | Constitution | ~brlcad++ |
| 07:04.30 | *** part/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-76-88-96-237.san.res.rr.com) |
| 07:04.39 | JeffM | and have them run it between machines on the same network |
| 07:04.40 | awilcox | a_meteorite: Winny on his sucky cable gets up to 50% UDP packet loss some times |
| 07:04.55 | a_meteorite | awilcox: only if he loads it down beyond what his cable can upload |
| 07:04.59 | JeffM | does the loopback loose packets? |
| 07:05.02 | a_meteorite | awilcox: the server loses packets with only one person |
| 07:05.19 | awilcox | a_meteorite: is bzfs running on it right now? |
| 07:05.23 | a_meteorite | JeffM: I don't know, what would be the optimal way of testing that? |
| 07:05.29 | JeffM | optimal |
| 07:05.40 | a_meteorite | awilcox: yes, bzfx.net:5154 |
| 07:05.42 | awilcox | a_met: ...127.0.0.1, I would assume |
| 07:05.43 | JeffM | write an app that sends out UDP packets with sequential numbers as a payload |
| 07:05.45 | JeffM | and log them |
| 07:06.24 | a_meteorite | k |
| 07:06.24 | JeffM | I lost a TCP to them |
| 07:06.24 | JeffM | they are probably just on a cheap backbone |
| 07:06.24 | JeffM | that's why they are cheap |
| 07:06.42 | blast007 | lost a TCP? |
| 07:06.44 | JeffM | I just lost one of four TCP |
| 07:06.46 | JeffM | yeah |
| 07:06.46 | blast007 | what were you using? |
| 07:06.48 | JeffM | ping |
| 07:06.52 | JeffM | ;) |
| 07:06.56 | blast007 | that's not TCP |
| 07:06.59 | blast007 | that's ICMP |
| 07:07.01 | JeffM | ahh ICMP |
| 07:07.03 | JeffM | yeah |
| 07:07.13 | JeffM | but I mean yeah they got some packet loss |
| 07:07.18 | JeffM | probalby upstream |
| 07:07.25 | JeffM | that's what makes them a cheap net |
| 07:07.30 | blast007 | I was doing a ping flood (ping -f -c 500) |
| 07:07.31 | JeffM | most of the users are probalby web |
| 07:07.35 | awilcox | I'm getting good, reliable, ~50ms ping replies, with ONE 67ms as the worst |
| 07:07.49 | JeffM | and I'm sure some of the users do run games |
| 07:07.54 | JeffM | and some don't |
| 07:08.01 | awilcox | 50 packets transmitted, 50 received, 0% packet loss, time 49221ms |
| 07:08.01 | awilcox | rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 50.031/52.878/67.002/3.491 ms |
| 07:08.04 | JeffM | but your contract dosn't say anything about packet loss I'mb etting |
| 07:08.50 | JeffM | and seriously, the 160 you paid is like 3.4 months at sagonet |
| 07:09.10 | blast007 | for a better server too LO |
| 07:09.14 | blast007 | :P* |
| 07:09.17 | JeffM | yeah |
| 07:09.22 | JeffM | 1.7 gig cely |
| 07:09.24 | awilcox | not sure what ISP/locale JeffM is dealing with, I'm on comcast Florida (with a 'fat' pipe to the atl hub) |
| 07:09.26 | JeffM | more drive |
| 07:09.38 | JeffM | awilcox: CA verizon |
| 07:09.43 | JeffM | nothing fancy |
| 07:10.14 | a_meteorite | I can ask for a new NIC/new hardware |
| 07:10.28 | JeffM | then do so |
| 07:10.31 | a_meteorite | I have till the start of the next 30 day cycle to see if it gets fixed |
| 07:10.33 | JeffM | but I'll bet it's upstream |
| 07:10.40 | a_meteorite | if not, I guess I'll just be at a loss of $160 |
| 07:10.45 | awilcox | my traceroute goes into New York, hits an unknown router at hop 22, and then hits franklin.bzfx.net |
| 07:11.13 | JeffM | oh, dude you did the countdown thing? |
| 07:11.15 | JeffM | HAH |
| 07:11.29 | a_meteorite | yeah... |
| 07:11.46 | JeffM | yeah that gives LOTS of time for resarch |
| 07:12.03 | a_meteorite | I had been looking at them for about a month before ordering it |
| 07:12.10 | a_meteorite | guess I researched in all the wrong places |
| 07:12.31 | JeffM | you talked to people who had used them? |
| 07:12.39 | a_meteorite | no, just read reviews |
| 07:12.49 | awilcox | in other news, something is way wrong with my laptop here, now on startup it does the stupid SPIN_LOCK_ALREADY_OWNED |
| 07:13.08 | JeffM | awilcox: time for a new one then |
| 07:13.09 | awilcox | it sounds like my laptop has been 'owned' too. =/ |
| 07:13.26 | awilcox | JeffM: yeap...two months and counting :) |
| 07:13.27 | a_meteorite | awilcox: now you have a real reason to spend money :) |
| 07:13.45 | JeffM | awilcox: your drive is probably failing |
| 07:13.45 | awilcox | a_met: haha |
| 07:14.17 | awilcox | JeffM: already ran chkdsk, spinrite, and whatever that Linux bad-block-checker thing is, all came back fine. memtest86 ran 5 passes with no errors. |
| 07:14.38 | JeffM | http://forums.olm.net/showthread.php?p=488 |
| 07:14.43 | JeffM | that's NICE on there own fourms |
| 07:15.06 | a_meteorite | oh wow |
| 07:15.08 | awilcox | using selective elimination, that leaves processor (which likes to get hot lately, even doing simple things) and general mobo weirdness. |
| 07:15.49 | JeffM | this one is also awesome |
| 07:15.50 | JeffM | http://forums.olm.net/archive/index.php/t-113.html |
| 07:16.01 | JeffM | awilcox: the 2 things you can't replace easaly |
| 07:16.38 | awilcox | JeffM: yeah, I know. I'll probably move to a temp desktop until I have savings to buy a good new computer |
| 07:17.03 | JeffM | awilcox: hope you have a backup for your contracting job |
| 07:17.11 | awilcox | JeffM: yeah, the temp desktop. |
| 07:17.30 | a_meteorite | your P166? |
| 07:17.36 | awilcox | JeffM: if you mean the code, then yes, Visual SourceSafe for the win (ugh, can't believe I said that.) |
| 07:17.42 | awilcox | a_met: no, lol. |
| 07:17.48 | Constitution | a_meteorite: for files that root is unable to edit, you might want to look at the `lsattr` and `chattr` commands |
| 07:17.50 | a_meteorite | you mean you have a real computer? |
| 07:18.02 | awilcox | a_met: yes, amazingly, I do have a real computer |
| 07:18.16 | gn00bie | awilcox: Visual Sourcesafe? no pun intended? |
| 07:18.20 | a_meteorite | Constitution: new tool for me |
| 07:18.39 | JeffM | awilcox: I meant as a computer |
| 07:18.43 | JeffM | source safe blows |
| 07:18.45 | JeffM | use SVN |
| 07:18.47 | awilcox | it's got 10GB HDD, plenty for VC# |
| 07:19.03 | a_meteorite | Constitution: can you show me how to use them in #bzfx ? |
| 07:19.11 | awilcox | JeffM: Yeah. Heh. mr. boss couldn't get svn installed on his server and wouldn't let me help >_> |
| 07:19.11 | a_meteorite | can't seem to find much via google |
| 07:19.19 | gn00bie | awilox the OSS hacker hacker, is the subject of this prose |
| 07:19.22 | JeffM | awilcox: then just use it for yourself |
| 07:19.30 | Constitution | a_meteorite: `man lsattr` ;) |
| 07:19.32 | gn00bie | but if you ever saw him, saw him, don't say sourcesafe blows! |
| 07:19.41 | awilcox | JeffM: 'but the code has to be checked into a company repo!' |
| 07:19.47 | a_meteorite | ahh.. chattr |
| 07:19.48 | Constitution | it's some attribute bit that "locks" the file |
| 07:19.56 | JeffM | then pull it out of svn and check it in when you have to ;) |
| 07:20.07 | awilcox | JeffM: That's not a bad idea. |
| 07:20.51 | awilcox | gn00bie: heh, it does blow, it's just my only tool (well, JeffM has a good idea there with svn though.) |
| 07:21.25 | a_meteorite | Constitution: it worked! thanks! |
| 07:21.48 | Constitution | np |
| 07:22.11 | Constitution | can't imagine what they locked those files for |
| 07:22.36 | a_meteorite | I thought they were rolling a custom kernel or something, cause aptitude wouldn't upgrade it and I was root for the other files |
| 07:22.46 | a_meteorite | a *really* custom kernel :) |
| 07:22.46 | gn00bie | awilcox: no worries, was just trying to ryhme you |
| 07:23.48 | JeffM | $7 a_meteorite |
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| 07:26.01 | gn00bie | and yeah |
| 07:26.07 | gn00bie | I forgot the obligatory |
| 07:26.54 | awilcox | :D |
| 07:33.55 | JeffM | hmm wonder if runing linux in a zen VM is justifyable reason for another IP |
| 07:35.52 | gn00bie | Interstellar Overdrive - piper at the gates of dawn |
| 07:41.06 | gn00bie | Chapter 24 |
| 07:41.21 | awilcox | JeffM: no, you would just be sucking another IPv4 addy away from us :p |
| 07:41.30 | awilcox | wait until next year with IPv6, then go for it :) |
| 07:41.33 | JeffM | good |
| 07:41.49 | JeffM | you'd just use it to break your laptop more ;) |
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| 08:14.23 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10 is out |
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| 12:27.52 | kjs | any ideas where I can get some computer / linux / networking style posters from? pref framed. |
| 12:43.46 | brlcad | kjs: checked thinkgeek? |
| 12:55.37 | kjs | brlcad: yeah, |
| 12:55.43 | kjs | im in the UK though. |
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| 13:15.55 | donny_baker | brlcad: nice postmortem |
| 13:28.00 | brlcad | thx |
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| 13:49.34 | whodaman | ~bzflist |
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| 17:14.52 | jftsang | hay all |
| 17:15.23 | whodaman | hello |
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| 19:38.32 | Winny | ~hapbir sportchicky? |
| 19:38.32 | ibot | ACTION sings a variant of Happy Birthday (to avoid royalty fees) to sportchicky |
| 19:38.49 | whodaman | Winny, can't be |
| 19:40.40 | awilcox | sportygal: change nicknames much? :P So, today's your birthday?! |
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| 20:17.52 | jftsang | how do I use pyBZEdit? |
| 20:17.58 | jftsang | (I have Python installed) |
| 20:18.33 | jftsang | C:\Documents and Settings\jftsang>C:\pybzedit\pyBzEdit.pyc |
| 20:18.35 | jftsang | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 20:18.36 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.38 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.39 | jftsang | ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx |
| 20:18.46 | ruskie | well missing stuff |
| 20:18.50 | ruskie | which is rather obvious |
| 20:18.54 | Weskagan | hi |
| 20:18.54 | ruskie | you need wxpython as well |
| 20:20.02 | jftsang | and I put it in the same folder? |
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| 20:24.45 | jftsang | C:\Documents and Settings\jftsang>C:\pybzedit\pyBzEdit.pyc |
| 20:24.47 | jftsang | C:\pybzedit\pyBzEdit.py:44: DeprecationWarning: The wxPython compatibility package is no longer automatically generated or actively maintained. Please switch to the wx package as soon as possible. |
| 20:24.48 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.50 | jftsang | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 20:24.51 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.53 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.54 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.56 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.57 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:24.59 | jftsang | in <module> |
| 20:25.00 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:25.02 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:25.03 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:25.05 | jftsang | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'DateTime_GetNumberOfDaysinYear' |
| 20:25.07 | jftsang | so that didn't help |
| 20:25.15 | ruskie | could you please NOT spam us here? |
| 20:25.18 | ruskie | use a paste site |
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| 20:53.05 | whodaman | yay |
| 21:10.25 | blast007 | jftsang___: pyBZEdit is not supported by the project |
| 21:12.27 | blast007 | ~Constitution++ |
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| 21:25.44 | JeffM2501 | jftsang, you are probalby missing python modules, pybzedit needs a number of them |
| 21:26.03 | jftsang | k |
| 21:26.23 | JeffM2501 | but as has been said, we did not make it |
| 21:26.29 | JeffM2501 | so we are not experts on using it |
| 21:26.35 | JeffM2501 | I do not know of anyone where who uses it. |
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| 21:28.02 | Winny | blurgh, my power supply is dead. |
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| 21:28.52 | JeffM2501 | aww, Erroneous locked out su allready :( |
| 21:28.58 | Erroneous | hm? |
| 21:28.58 | kjs | TimRiker: Hi Tim, how are you? |
| 21:29.04 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 21:29.15 | JeffM2501 | then maybe they made sudo work on admin only |
| 21:29.18 | JeffM2501 | I can't on my account |
| 21:30.00 | Erroneous | possible that they locked down su. sudo should be controllable via /etc/sudoers if it's installed. |
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| 21:30.39 | JeffM2501 | sudo isn't |
| 21:33.23 | Constitution | are you in the admin group? |
| 21:33.36 | Constitution | well, what OS? |
| 21:44.53 | JeffM2501 | BSD :) |
| 21:45.04 | awilcox | Net? |
| 21:45.54 | JeffM2501 | free |
| 21:46.07 | JeffM2501 | hooly crap does nano take forever to install |
| 21:47.11 | JeffM2501 | it's STILL going |
| 21:47.36 | JeffM2501 | I think it had dependencies up the wazzo |
| 21:47.54 | awilcox | JeffM2501: the little text editor? |
| 21:47.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:49.24 | JeffM2501 | now to get my shell to be a bash one :) |
| 21:49.33 | JeffM2501 | unless Erroneous has set that up allready :) |
| 21:49.34 | awilcox | hehe. |
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| 21:58.28 | Winny | JeffM2501, can I ask you a video card related question? |
| 22:01.53 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 22:01.56 | Winny | alright |
| 22:02.41 | Winny | I just got an 8500GT, and it has a two ping power connecter on it.. but there was nothing in the box to connect it with |
| 22:02.52 | Winny | I take it that means it's not important? |
| 22:03.06 | JeffM2501 | it is totaly important |
| 22:03.16 | JeffM2501 | they just assumed your powersupply would have it |
| 22:03.30 | JeffM2501 | is it a molex? |
| 22:03.49 | JeffM2501 | who made the card? |
| 22:03.49 | Winny | I think so.. it is two years old though |
| 22:03.56 | Winny | Asus 8500GT, 512mb |
| 22:04.16 | Winny | hmm, might have an idea. One sec. |
| 22:04.36 | Winny | I might have a molex to two-pin converter around somewhere |
| 22:04.50 | JeffM2501 | youy want as much power to the card as possible |
| 22:05.15 | JeffM2501 | http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/directron_1987_223789876 |
| 22:05.19 | JeffM2501 | where on the card is it? |
| 22:06.47 | awilcox | Winny: http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-121-094-05.jpg is it where the fan plug is on here? |
| 22:07.52 | Winny | ah.. yes it is. |
| 22:08.00 | Winny | it's a fanless card |
| 22:08.03 | JeffM2501 | ohh |
| 22:08.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's for fan |
| 22:08.09 | JeffM2501 | you don't need it |
| 22:08.13 | Winny | fun |
| 22:08.14 | JeffM2501 | that's not molex |
| 22:08.18 | Winny | PSU must be dead then. |
| 22:09.35 | Winny | I figured it might have had something to do with the fan (or lack of) |
| 22:09.42 | awilcox | Winny: does it have enough watts to power the computer? |
| 22:09.45 | Winny | the card says a min of 325, it's a 450 |
| 22:09.52 | Constitution | ~congratulate awilcox |
| 22:09.53 | ibot | ACTION congratulates awilcox on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 22:09.59 | awilcox | :D |
| 22:10.04 | Winny | as soon as I put any components in it, the PSU fan starts to turn on and off |
| 22:10.13 | Winny | blrugh |
| 22:10.39 | awilcox | Winny: I AM NOT LIABLE FOR DEATH. could be the fan. you could try to replace it. |
| 22:10.55 | Winny | It's probably the PSU itself |
| 22:10.59 | Thumper_ | Winny: is it a variable speed cooling fan on the power supply? I have one of those and it's mostly off until the machine starts working hard |
| 22:11.17 | Winny | I put parts in it, the machine keeps trying to boot. |
| 22:11.29 | Winny | *beep* ... nothing .... *beep* |
| 22:11.36 | Thumper_ | hmm that's not good :) |
| 22:11.39 | awilcox | Winny: sounds like a mobo POST code. |
| 22:11.40 | Winny | :p |
| 22:11.46 | awilcox | 1-pause-1 |
| 22:11.47 | Winny | awilcox, one beep means it's fine |
| 22:11.47 | Winny | :P |
| 22:11.53 | Winny | no, like, 20 seconds pass |
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| 22:12.09 | Thumper_ | Winny: that's a continuous error beep... just slow |
| 22:12.12 | Thumper_ | ;) |
| 22:12.24 | awilcox | who knows, the motherboard's xtal may be dead (one of my boards actually DID have that happen) |
| 22:12.51 | Winny | the PSU is more likely if it cycles on and off, I imagine. |
| 22:13.02 | Winny | if I take parts out, it doesn't do that |
| 22:13.35 | Winny | which probably means it can't take the strain... (for some reason.. should bemore then thenough) |
| 22:13.59 | awilcox | Winny: to be honest, since 1988, I've had ONE PSU die, and the rest I *thought* were PSUs but turned out to be mobos or CPUs...I'm just saying, you may want to check with a good known mobo (that you can spare) before just throwing your hands up and ordering a new one |
| 22:14.26 | Winny | hmm, k |
| 22:16.44 | JeffM2501 | Winny, if it just beeps then it's component failure |
| 22:16.52 | JeffM2501 | ram, cpu, etc.. |
| 22:17.11 | JeffM2501 | PSU failure means no power usualy |
| 22:17.17 | JeffM2501 | pull out some of the ram |
| 22:20.06 | Winny | JeffM2501, if I have no parts in it, then the PSU fan keeps steady |
| 22:20.30 | Winny | but as soon as I put in a videocard, or a HDD, or RAM, it stops and starts |
| 22:20.37 | JeffM2501 | eww |
| 22:20.38 | awilcox | Winny: as Thumper_ said, maybe it's variable speed |
| 22:20.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah it could be |
| 22:20.54 | JeffM2501 | how many wats is it? |
| 22:21.01 | awilcox | JeffM2501: 450, he told me earlier |
| 22:21.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah try another one, see wha happens |
| 22:21.18 | awilcox | Winny: what kind of processor does this have? |
| 22:21.58 | Winny | p4 |
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| 22:22.24 | awilcox | more specific? MHz? stepping if you have it? |
| 22:23.10 | Winny | p4 3.2ghz, HT, no idea about stepping |
| 22:23.19 | Winny | actually, hmm |
| 22:23.23 | Winny | might not be the fan |
| 22:23.35 | Winny | it sounds almost like crackling.. hm |
| 22:24.06 | awilcox | looks like that CPU needs about 103W |
| 22:24.28 | awilcox | Winny: Ummmm....crackling normally means electrical problems (poss. capacitors?) |
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| 22:28.40 | Winny | hmm |
| 22:28.57 | Winny | guess Ill replace the PSU :/ |
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| 23:56.54 | Winny | hmmm |
| 23:57.01 | Winny | one continuous beep |
| 23:57.15 | Winny | I got it to boot.. but it reboots 1/2 way through starting up kubuntu :( |
| 23:57.42 | Winny | oh great |
| 23:57.43 | Winny | Repeated Long Beeps Memory Error |
| 23:57.51 | Winny | ...dammit. |
