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| 04:36.26 | Winny | brad, ping |
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| 06:17.29 | Constitution | what's MsgAdminInfo for? is it a replacement for MsgAddPlayer? |
| 06:17.54 | blast007 | sends IP info, right? |
| 06:18.16 | Constitution | looks like it |
| 06:18.18 | JeffM | it should be so that admins can get the IP and stuff |
| 06:18.28 | JeffM | and they arn't send out to everyone by default |
| 06:18.31 | awilcox | "Added MsgAdminInfo, removed playerlist parsing from bzadmin and use MsgAdminInfo instead, added some new text messages to bzadmin" |
| 06:18.43 | Constitution | would that be a safe place to set mainPlayer->isAdmin? |
| 06:19.02 | Constitution | well I guess not, if it only happens when other players join |
| 06:19.18 | JeffM | look at what the API does, it can set the core admin bit |
| 06:20.00 | blast007 | JeffM: I got really bored today and got PyBZFlag mostly running again |
| 06:20.18 | JeffM | I'm sorry |
| 06:20.19 | JeffM | ;) |
| 06:20.22 | blast007 | hehe |
| 06:20.48 | JeffM | beter then what I did when I got bored today |
| 06:20.52 | awilcox | Constitution: MsgAdminInfo is only sent to players with PLAYERLIST permissions (from blast007, timestamp 2004-11-10 00:26.44) |
| 06:21.07 | JeffM | Constitution: what are you trying to do? |
| 06:21.18 | awilcox | Constitution: Googling "MsgAdminInfo" yields interesting results ;) |
| 06:21.19 | Constitution | I'm trying to figure out a way to make the client realize that it's an admin when it has hideAdmin |
| 06:21.24 | Constitution | so it will display player slots |
| 06:21.37 | JeffM | in the current proto? |
| 06:21.41 | Constitution | yes |
| 06:21.43 | JeffM | or with a new message? |
| 06:22.03 | JeffM | have it try a fake kick ;) |
| 06:22.06 | JeffM | see if it works |
| 06:22.11 | Constitution | lol |
| 06:22.17 | JeffM | that's all I can think of |
| 06:22.30 | JeffM | since we don't realy "tell" the client in a message that it's an "admin" |
| 06:22.37 | blast007 | if you modify the server, it should be possible |
| 06:22.39 | JeffM | the @ is just a marker set based on the server |
| 06:22.51 | blast007 | isn't there an isAdmin bit on the players? |
| 06:22.58 | JeffM | yeah have the server send you @ just to the player that is admin |
| 06:23.06 | Constitution | hmm, k |
| 06:23.12 | JeffM | API may be able to do that |
| 06:23.15 | blast007 | or maybe it was an isAdmin function.. |
| 06:23.18 | JeffM | it has an overide for the @ |
| 06:23.21 | JeffM | there is an event |
| 06:23.21 | Constitution | that would probably be good enough even for 3.0 |
| 06:23.38 | Constitution | a client mod in 2.0 would probably get pretty hacky |
| 06:25.01 | blast007 | don't see a need for the client mod |
| 06:25.14 | blast007 | it's easy to lie to clients for some stuff |
| 06:25.22 | Constitution | only that it would be easier for the users |
| 06:25.34 | Constitution | then they wouldn't have to bug the server ops to update their bzfs's |
| 06:25.43 | blast007 | meh |
| 06:25.54 | JeffM | bz_eGetPlayerInfoEvent |
| 06:26.15 | JeffM | naw, you'll have to mod the client |
| 06:26.19 | JeffM | sorry mod the server |
| 06:26.21 | JeffM | not client |
| 06:26.26 | JeffM | it sends it as a broadcast |
| 06:26.32 | JeffM | you'll have to send it as a loop |
| 06:26.37 | JeffM | and set admin for the player that is admin |
| 06:26.44 | JeffM | not a hard change |
| 06:26.55 | Constitution | mmk |
| 06:27.03 | blast007 | when the client receives MsgAdminInfo, couldn't the client assume it's an admin and then show slot #'s? |
| 06:27.20 | JeffM | lots of things "could" happen |
| 06:27.27 | Constitution | it doesn't get that message until another player joines, afaik |
| 06:27.30 | JeffM | best would be just to make client ask "should I show slots"? |
| 06:27.35 | blast007 | I'm meaning for 2.0 ;) |
| 06:27.41 | blast007 | 3.0 can do it however it wants |
| 06:29.37 | JeffM | I'd think what you'd want to do is change sendPlayerInfo() ( in bzfs.cxx ) |
| 06:29.56 | JeffM | and have it set and pack the admin bit to 1 for the player that IS admin |
| 06:30.30 | JeffM | so you'd send out the update for everyone execpt you, then just one for you as an admin |
| 06:30.39 | JeffM | everyone else would see you as no admin, but you'd see yourself as admin |
| 06:31.08 | *** join/#bzflag Mets (i=HydraIRC@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 06:31.24 | Constitution | so basically implement a modified broadcastMessage() there? |
| 06:32.25 | JeffM | well do it as a loop |
| 06:32.31 | JeffM | and repack it for each player |
| 06:32.42 | JeffM | broadcast just loops it anyway |
| 06:33.09 | JeffM | you could go and just pack up non admins |
| 06:33.12 | JeffM | and send those |
| 06:33.35 | JeffM | then pack up an update with the admins that are hidden, and pack them as not admin and send those |
| 06:33.39 | JeffM | or hell |
| 06:33.45 | JeffM | send out the current broadcast |
| 06:34.01 | JeffM | then just pack up just the players that ARE admin |
| 06:34.09 | JeffM | then send them to just those players |
| 06:34.12 | Mets | does anybody have admin perms on smj's unix hackers |
| 06:34.16 | JeffM | so they will go not admin then admin |
| 06:34.17 | Mets | we've got a problem |
| 06:34.33 | Mets | it's like the cheat haven right now |
| 06:34.54 | JeffM | Constitution: that way then admins see admins, even if they are hideen |
| 06:34.57 | JeffM | you see ALL admins |
| 06:35.00 | Constitution | yeah, ok |
| 06:35.04 | JeffM | Mets: if it's not well admined, then play elsewhere |
| 06:35.11 | Mets | hax, a lone tanker were just there, and sensative guy is in there now, he's got oo, theif and killing people from inside a block |
| 06:35.23 | JeffM | Constitution: the people who are hidden will 'boop' on and off |
| 06:35.36 | JeffM | mets who owns it? |
| 06:35.37 | Constitution | just to the admins, right? |
| 06:35.42 | JeffM | Constitution: yeah |
| 06:35.42 | Mets | JeffM, i do, i'm more concerned about the fact that it's a hideout |
| 06:35.44 | Mets | smj |
| 06:35.48 | Mets | it's the SDF public unix server |
| 06:35.52 | Mets | can't find him though |
| 06:35.59 | JeffM | then it's poorly admined |
| 06:36.04 | JeffM | like many servers |
| 06:36.13 | JeffM | send him a PM on the boards and go elsewhere |
| 06:36.14 | JeffM | simple as that |
| 06:36.24 | Mets | i'm not arguing with you about that, just wondering if anybody is an admin that's here |
| 06:36.40 | Mets | i'll keep looking, thanks |
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| 06:38.24 | Constitution | JeffM: I'm thinking that splitting up the admins from the other users, and then sending the updates separately, would be the more elegant solution? |
| 06:38.36 | JeffM | techincaly yes |
| 06:38.43 | JeffM | but it may be a lot more code |
| 06:38.50 | Constitution | hmm, true |
| 06:39.16 | JeffM | but your call |
| 06:41.03 | Constitution | is sendPlayerInfo() called often? if so, the additional code may generate a bit more CPU usage |
| 06:46.43 | JeffM | pfffft |
| 06:46.45 | JeffM | no |
| 06:46.53 | Constitution | ok |
| 06:47.02 | JeffM | maybe on a 286 |
| 06:47.51 | JeffM | it's called per player add |
| 06:48.00 | Constitution | oh |
| 06:48.01 | JeffM | there is no message thats sent on a perm change to "hide" the admin |
| 06:48.13 | JeffM | so that's as good as you are going to get |
| 06:49.01 | JeffM | I mean if you were packing and sending that stuff a couple hundred times per loop, sure it'd become noticable |
| 06:49.20 | JeffM | but computers are fast enough to do a simple loop twice |
| 06:49.35 | Constitution | yeah, k |
| 06:50.01 | JeffM | I mean techincaly every change we do to the server can add more "cpu usage" |
| 06:50.12 | JeffM | that's what we WANT to do |
| 06:50.16 | JeffM | have the server DO more |
| 07:04.03 | Constitution | how does this look: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m441d1417 |
| 07:09.28 | JeffM | whatever workjs |
| 07:10.09 | Constitution | testing now |
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| 08:41.19 | Constitution | my.bzflag.org is down... looks like it will need brlcad's attention |
| 08:42.18 | think_tank | ...again |
| 08:44.40 | Manu | Constitution: not down, just memory problems again |
| 08:45.18 | Constitution | well yeah |
| 08:47.01 | Mets | it's not down, but it's not up - it's escaping! |
| 08:47.17 | Constitution | not offline, but the forums and list server are "down" |
| 08:47.27 | Constitution | hehe |
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| 08:56.55 | Pogovina | teehee |
| 09:12.58 | brlcad | so that's where the space has been going... |
| 09:14.36 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 09:14.45 | brlcad | automatic mysql backups are/were eating up about 350MB/day through to the end of a month .. |
| 09:15.04 | brlcad | and since we're near the end of a month, we're at almost as big as it gets |
| 09:15.34 | brlcad | with one mysql db in particular taking up 11GB with just this past month's backups |
| 09:24.12 | Constitution | eek |
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| 09:24.51 | think_tank | so it's not a memory issue but a space issue? |
| 09:25.36 | brlcad | it's not been a memory issue for years |
| 09:26.16 | brlcad | manu meant disk memory, he knew the disks were full |
| 09:27.01 | brlcad | we were just accummulating too fast -- I didn't catch that dir the first time I scanned the file system |
| 09:27.24 | brlcad | but knew something was eating up space fast, becaused I'd just free'd up several GB just a couple days ago |
| 09:27.42 | think_tank | ah |
| 09:37.14 | brlcad | there that should fix the problem |
| 09:38.25 | brlcad | the one mysql pig will only run every third day so it'll only need 3GB instead of 12GB in a given month |
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| 11:33.39 | Constitution | ~whodaman-++ |
| 11:33.49 | whodaman | *whodaman |
| 11:33.50 | whodaman | :p |
| 11:34.20 | whodaman | Actually, whodaman- is good (otherwise I'd have to start from 0 ;)) |
| 11:34.41 | Constitution | you're like -3 right now for some reason |
| 11:35.01 | whodaman | ~karma whodaman |
| 11:35.01 | ibot | whodaman has karma of -3 |
| 11:35.08 | whodaman | :/ |
| 11:35.18 | whodaman | Ah well |
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| 15:06.55 | brad | Winny: pong! |
| 15:07.15 | Winny | you run the moooo.org server(s), right? |
| 15:07.22 | brad | sometimes |
| 15:07.25 | whodaman | yeah :p |
| 15:08.00 | Winny | someone called "the tank" is an @ on there.. cheater |
| 15:08.18 | whodaman | brad, your perms still don't work |
| 15:09.14 | brad | will have to fix it all later |
| 15:09.14 | whodaman | all the @ are hidden...no /showgroup or /showperms |
| 15:09.14 | whodaman | fun! :) |
| 15:09.14 | Mets | sigh, so much cheating right now from those three |
| 15:10.06 | Mets | kind of surprised it was from admins though, wan't expecting that |
| 15:10.17 | brad | ! |
| 15:10.32 | brad | he begged so much I just gave in :P |
| 15:10.38 | whodaman | lol... |
| 15:10.42 | Mets | i hope that's a joke |
| 15:11.24 | brad | nah I cant remember adding him |
| 15:12.00 | Mets | they practically took over smj's server last night, we had to firewall them so they couldn't get back in |
| 15:13.07 | *** join/#bzflag zee (n=42b0d10c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-bea0921ae2c4c4f1) |
| 15:13.17 | Winny | smj? |
| 15:13.54 | Mets | Winny, he runs freeshell |
| 15:14.13 | Winny | what server is it...? |
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| 16:16.57 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 16:16.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:47.25 | Winny | brad, he's in ##guleague |
| 16:52.25 | *** join/#bzflag ryanakca (n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca) |
| 16:53.01 | Winny | eh |
| 16:53.05 | Winny | just use spawnzones |
| 16:53.30 | Winny | and put zones on the bases |
| 16:54.42 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Zone |
| 16:56.50 | *** join/#bzflag the_tank (n=phbb-tec@69.8.5.103) |
| 16:57.02 | the_tank | test |
| 16:57.05 | Winny | heh |
| 16:57.06 | the_tank | k |
| 16:57.58 | ryanakca | Winny: thanks :) |
| 16:58.03 | Winny | yeah sure |
| 17:15.53 | ryanakca | Winny: so, this, in theory, should make a spawn zone for blue and red on their respective bases? |
| 17:16.36 | Winny | you need to make it |
| 17:16.39 | Winny | it doesn't do it for you |
| 17:18.24 | ryanakca | Winny: oops, sorry, never gave you the link: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/54077/ |
| 17:18.25 | ryanakca | there |
| 17:19.48 | Winny | should |
| 17:19.54 | Winny | might need -sb |
| 17:20.03 | Winny | actually |
| 17:20.09 | Winny | you need to raise the zones up 10 units |
| 17:20.14 | Winny | they should be on top of the base |
| 17:21.03 | ryanakca | -sb is already set, and I'll try raising them. Thanks :) |
| 17:21.32 | the_tank | been a while sence i made a map |
| 17:24.58 | ryanakca | hmm.. still not spawning on bases |
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| 18:14.25 | JeffM | brlcad, you there? |
| 18:15.23 | Winny | it's actually sagonet :p |
| 18:15.32 | JeffM | yeah yeah yeah |
| 18:15.37 | Winny | :) |
| 18:15.44 | Winny | legonet! |
| 18:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 18:15.53 | JeffM | doing the 2 gig P4 with 320gigs of space |
| 18:16.05 | whodaman | :o |
| 18:16.20 | L4m3r | blast007: ping |
| 18:16.30 | L4m3r | or JeffM, if you're up to it |
| 18:16.34 | JeffM | sup? |
| 18:16.57 | Winny | oh cool, speaking of which |
| 18:16.57 | L4m3r | apparently the googlebot is crawling the CGI:IRC page |
| 18:17.03 | Winny | I can't get to BZFlagr, sagonet.com, or the listserver |
| 18:17.03 | whodaman | yeah... |
| 18:17.07 | Winny | fun! |
| 18:17.07 | L4m3r | and that's causing hordes of joins |
| 18:17.14 | whodaman | under my name :p |
| 18:17.16 | L4m3r | as seen in #bzchat earlier |
| 18:17.29 | JeffM | k |
| 18:17.47 | L4m3r | so, we need nofollow, or an edit to robots.txt, or something :P |
| 18:18.12 | JeffM | arn't you part of the web group? |
| 18:18.26 | L4m3r | web group? |
| 18:18.32 | JeffM | on the server |
| 18:18.39 | L4m3r | I've got nothing on the server :P |
| 18:18.50 | JeffM | really? |
| 18:18.51 | JeffM | odd |
| 18:19.05 | L4m3r | haven't had the needs... whenever I need something hosted I have a webhost, or the mofo box, or my dorm pipe |
| 18:19.11 | JeffM | Winny, did you guys do a referal to brlcad ? |
| 18:19.14 | L4m3r | s/needs/need/ |
| 18:19.53 | JeffM | well yeah but I thouhg you had a login for bz work |
| 18:20.00 | L4m3r | nope :P |
| 18:20.08 | JeffM | well that's just not right |
| 18:20.09 | Winny | JeffM, Constitution is the main account holder, ask him. I'm just the contact |
| 18:20.09 | L4m3r | at least not that I know of |
| 18:20.53 | L4m3r | I don't really know how to tweak phpBB anyway... if it was vBulletin I'd have already fixed it via the adminCP :D |
| 18:20.57 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:21.07 | JeffM | yes you do, you're smart |
| 18:21.13 | JeffM | you just don't want to ;) |
| 18:21.23 | Winny | hmm, sagonet seems to be having euro issues ATM |
| 18:21.29 | JeffM | well I don't se a robots.txt or anything |
| 18:21.37 | Winny | every one on my server from europe has 25% >_< |
| 18:21.39 | donny_baker | Winny: just pay in dollars |
| 18:21.44 | L4m3r | can we deny specific pages with robots.txt? |
| 18:21.49 | JeffM | I don't know |
| 18:22.03 | Winny | donny_baker, eh? :p |
| 18:22.07 | L4m3r | oh, we can just block the whole irc dir :) |
| 18:22.27 | donny_baker | Winny: if they are having problems with euros just use dollars :P |
| 18:22.41 | JeffM | brlcad, pinG! |
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| 18:29.14 | donny_baker | well there is no robots.txt it would seem... that could be part of the problem |
| 18:29.33 | donny_baker | cd .. |
| 18:30.05 | L4m3r | ~ww :) |
| 18:31.10 | *** join/#bzflag think_tank (n=think_ta@c-71-194-147-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:31.19 | donny_baker | ah, found it |
| 18:32.26 | whodaman | Stupid question, how do I .zip a file in windoze? |
| 18:32.42 | think_tank | winzip |
| 18:32.46 | whodaman | nvermind |
| 18:33.12 | donny_baker | that is a stupid question ... but an easy answer right click... sent to... compressed zip |
| 18:33.24 | donny_baker | i prefer 7-zip myself |
| 18:33.41 | whodaman | donny_baker, I've never used windoze in my whole entire life |
| 18:35.41 | donny_baker | JeffM: i added /irc/ to the disallowed directories |
| 18:35.56 | donny_baker | brlcad: you might want to check it ^^^ |
| 18:36.10 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter_ (n=scratch@i59F7D896.versanet.de) |
| 18:37.13 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=chatzill@88-108-238-145.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:41.40 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 18:42.29 | *** join/#bzflag oops___ (n=scratch@i577B4859.versanet.de) |
| 18:44.54 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 18:45.35 | JeffM | donny_baker, cool |
| 18:45.52 | JeffM | Winny, how many IPs did you get? |
| 18:45.58 | Winny | 2 |
| 18:46.01 | JeffM | k |
| 18:46.05 | JeffM | you host your own DNS? |
| 18:46.09 | Winny | you can get more for free |
| 18:46.12 | JeffM | k |
| 18:46.16 | Winny | but they need to be "justified" |
| 18:46.25 | JeffM | I'm going to ask brlcad if he can be our backup nameserver |
| 18:47.01 | donny_baker | JeffM: i can if you want, i backup norang and pm as well as a few others |
| 18:47.41 | donny_baker | my name server is on an AT&T circuit |
| 18:47.52 | jftsang | how many list servers are there? and is it possible to set up our own list server? |
| 18:48.01 | Winny | one, and yes it is |
| 18:48.49 | jftsang | hm. I heard rumours that there were "backup" servers or "extra" servers or something like that |
| 18:49.00 | jftsang | but how would I set up my own list server? |
| 18:49.06 | donny_baker | jftsang: that would be a rumor |
| 18:49.27 | jftsang | donny_baker: no. we spell words correctly in UK. :) |
| 18:49.34 | donny_baker | there has been talk of having backups and the like, but it has not been implimented |
| 18:49.52 | JeffM | well it's not a "rumor" |
| 18:49.55 | JeffM | it's a plan |
| 18:50.07 | JeffM | the goal is to redo the list server into something that is distributed |
| 18:50.15 | JeffM | so it can have more then one |
| 18:50.20 | JeffM | but right now we run one |
| 18:50.25 | JeffM | anyone else can run one if they want as well |
| 18:50.45 | JeffM | but it will not be used unless the client is setup to use it. |
| 18:51.19 | jftsang | and as I understand, it is a PHP script right? |
| 18:51.23 | L4m3r | so would the lists just mirror each other? |
| 18:51.46 | JeffM | L4m3r, depends on how it gets implemented, in it's most basic way, yes it could mirror |
| 18:52.01 | JeffM | in a more complex system like ldap they'd all be notes in a distributed network |
| 18:52.11 | JeffM | jftsang, the basic list is PHP |
| 18:52.17 | JeffM | it uses mysql for data |
| 18:52.22 | JeffM | and phpbb2 for authentication |
| 18:52.28 | L4m3r | I mean, if we have them all send all data to one another, we get a redundant system |
| 18:52.34 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:52.51 | L4m3r | and servers can add themselves to any server and propagate over the whole list |
| 18:53.03 | JeffM | we could do it right now with just sql replication and some client and server changes |
| 18:53.09 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 18:53.55 | JeffM | that would not be the most efficient but it would work from a failure standpoint |
| 18:56.26 | L4m3r | I see that as the main thing we have to gain, though :) |
| 18:57.02 | L4m3r | I mean, the list could/should be pretty light |
| 18:57.12 | JeffM | well right now it's tied to phpbb ;) |
| 18:57.19 | JeffM | so you'd replicate that too |
| 18:57.24 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 18:57.33 | L4m3r | we need a new list before we mirror it or anything :P |
| 19:06.00 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:06.06 | JeffM | we have the first mirror machine |
| 19:07.20 | jftsang | how does BZFlag determine whether a burrower has been ran over or not |
| 19:07.58 | jftsang | is it just if their X and Y position are the same and if the burrower has a lower Z |
| 19:08.15 | jftsang | or does it calculate by seeing if there is contact |
| 19:08.21 | L4m3r | there's a radius |
| 19:08.42 | L4m3r | if a burrowed tank senses someone in said radius, it dies |
| 19:08.55 | L4m3r | not that complicated |
| 19:10.12 | jftsang | is it _srRadiusMult |
| 19:10.18 | L4m3r | I believe so |
| 19:10.47 | donny_baker | jftsang: if the burrower is far enough below the surface they cannot be run over |
| 19:11.24 | L4m3r | two burrowed tanks should always be able to run one another over |
| 19:11.30 | JeffM | IIRC it's a rad/height check |
| 19:11.33 | JeffM | so a cylinder |
| 19:11.47 | jftsang | you see, I have _burrowDepth as -6 |
| 19:11.51 | jftsang | and I still get run over |
| 19:11.55 | L4m3r | lol |
| 19:11.56 | donny_baker | L4m3r: i don't think burrowed tanks can run each other over |
| 19:12.05 | jftsang | they probably could |
| 19:12.06 | L4m3r | donny_baker: they can... if the collide they both die |
| 19:12.10 | L4m3r | kind of like SR |
| 19:12.12 | jftsang | just... they would kill each other first |
| 19:12.23 | L4m3r | sometimes only one dies, though, because of lag |
| 19:14.24 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:15.27 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@87-194-205-16.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:16.09 | Teppic | Can you thread PHP on a server? |
| 19:16.16 | Teppic | webserver* |
| 19:16.28 | awilcox | Teppic: ##PHP , and yes I believe so. |
| 19:17.00 | awilcox | Teppic: Through the weirdness of the Internet, you ended up in an IRC channel for a fun open-source game. |
| 19:17.16 | Teppic | Yes. its a webserver for testing maps |
| 19:17.33 | awilcox | Ohhh. Still, I believe that PHP support would be out of our realm. |
| 19:17.50 | Teppic | you can try it if you like http://craven.dyndns.org/upload/ |
| 19:18.26 | Teppic | And I know some pretty handy web devs hang out here from time to time, plus I don't have to explain what I'm doing so hard... |
| 19:21.06 | awilcox | Teppic: Would a /query be alright? I may have some information that could help you. |
| 19:21.39 | Teppic | Sure |
| 19:24.23 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 19:24.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.49 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang_ (n=chatzill@88-108-211-237.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:40.56 | Winny | does anyone in here have earthlink internet? |
| 19:43.34 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-034.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 19:44.33 | *** join/#bzflag kjs (n=keith@cartman.nzsolutions.net) |
| 19:45.05 | kjs | TimRiker: hI |
| 19:45.24 | awilcox | Winny: one of my friends had it a while back, anything I could help with? |
| 19:45.34 | Winny | need someone who has it now |
| 19:45.52 | Winny | trying to figure out if they share IPs between customers |
| 19:46.13 | kjs | I was just messing about with my netgear router (DGA834) and I found a script written by you :) checked out your domain. Read your site... Though I would stop by the chan... as I was on freenode :) |
| 19:48.06 | TimRiker | kjs: cool cool. |
| 19:48.46 | TimRiker | probably the udhcpc script? It's in a lot of systems. #eLinux would be a better place to ask about that stuff. :) |
| 19:50.46 | kjs | Yeah, no I just stoped buy out of bordom |
| 19:51.10 | kjs | and yes that is the script |
| 19:51.28 | TimRiker | kjs: heh. BZFlag is a good remedy for boredom sometimes. :) |
| 19:52.13 | brlcad | jftsang_: we have the backup hardware, just not written the code nor done any of the setup to make it act like a backup |
| 19:52.45 | Teppic | Winny, get them to run sheilds up and see if there are any open ports they don't have open. |
| 19:52.49 | jftsang_ | aaahhh |
| 19:53.18 | TimRiker | awilcox: thx. :) there are many others in here that do as much or more. :) |
| 19:53.54 | awilcox | TimRiker: that's quite true, but even still, I rarely ever see you online. |
| 19:54.09 | TimRiker | oh, I'm often here, just lurking. :) |
| 19:54.25 | awilcox | that sounds familiar with my project's channel :) |
| 19:54.35 | kjs | TimRiker: do you not play counter strike? |
| 19:54.37 | Winny | Teppic, I can't trust what the user has to say |
| 19:54.58 | Winny | since their IP was seen cheating, and they claim it's cause they share an IP |
| 19:55.20 | kjs | TimRiker: just thought I would let you know your now part of netgears firmware :) |
| 19:56.01 | Teppic | Winny, get them to run wireshark, then do a portscan, if they go offline ban them. |
| 19:56.41 | kjs | are there packages for bzflag on ubuntu ? |
| 19:56.44 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A57B88.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:58.16 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang__ (n=chatzill@88-108-217-38.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:58.36 | TimRiker | kjs: yes. there are debian packages, which get folded over to ubuntu. I don't play counter strike really. as to firmware, I've got code in so many embedded devices I've lost count long ago. |
| 19:58.57 | awilcox | Winny: doesn't look like multiple customers share a single IP address, and to be quite honest, that would be literally impossible to set up. think about it: non-passive FTP would connect to a random port on an IP addy, what happens if another person with that same IP addy wants to FTP and by chance gets the same random port number? crash boom bang. |
| 19:59.16 | jftsang | http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/suparun/bzflag-2.0.8-x86-Opkg.tar.gz?download: for Linux 2.0.10 |
| 19:59.18 | awilcox | Winny: I did find this on the spamcop forums though: "Earthstink rotates the IP, so many people share the same IP, and if I sign off and log in again, I'll probably get a different IP." |
| 19:59.38 | Winny | it was within like, 2 hours |
| 19:59.41 | Winny | of each other |
| 19:59.50 | awilcox | Winny: what he means by 'share the same IP' is probably closer to either AOL proxies or it is normal like any other dial-up |
| 20:00.00 | Winny | as in |
| 20:00.07 | awilcox | disconnect->reconnect->different IP |
| 20:00.13 | Winny | he claims that another BZFlag player somehow has the same IP as him |
| 20:00.17 | Winny | I don't really believe it |
| 20:00.23 | Winny | but I want to make sure its not possible |
| 20:00.50 | awilcox | Winny: well it is *POSSIBLE* that the prior (banned?) player disconnected, and this guy connected and got his IP |
| 20:01.15 | think_tank | multiple occurrences on separate days tho |
| 20:01.21 | Winny | yep |
| 20:01.28 | awilcox | but to be quite honest, it doesn't really look to be in this person's favour. |
| 20:06.35 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang__ (n=chatzill@88-108-187-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:13.43 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 20:13.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 20:19.25 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 20:19.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:33.45 | donny_baker | awilcox: i don't think it would be impossible... if they natted behind an ISP router it could be possible |
| 20:34.36 | donny_baker | not saying that that is what is happening... just a possibility |
| 20:35.00 | donny_baker | as natting at the ISP level is not a common setup |
| 20:46.16 | awilcox | donny_baker: didn't think of that, but that's really complex, and they suck too much to know that they even COULD do that :P |
| 20:46.36 | donny_baker | yeah exactly... just a possibility |
| 20:57.31 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang___ (n=chatzill@88-108-221-107.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:20.49 | Constitution | JeffM: IIRC I think I did list brlcad as a referral... can't quite remember precisely |
| 21:21.05 | Winny | brad, menotume, Dessy: ping.. "the_lone_tanker" is spamming ##guleague |
| 21:21.15 | JeffM | Constitution, know if he gets anyting? :) |
| 21:21.37 | *** join/#bzflag the_lone_tanker (n=lonetank@69.8.5.103) |
| 21:21.43 | the_lone_tanker | LOl |
| 21:21.49 | the_lone_tanker | i am a true asshole |
| 21:21.52 | the_lone_tanker | shit! |
| 21:21.54 | the_lone_tanker | shit! |
| 21:21.55 | the_lone_tanker | shit! |
| 21:21.57 | the_lone_tanker | shit! |
| 21:21.57 | *** kick/#bzflag [the_lone_tanker!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad) |
| 21:22.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.19 | *** join/#bzflag the_lone_tanker (n=lonetank@69.8.5.103) |
| 21:22.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b the_lone_tanker!*@*] by brlcad |
| 21:22.31 | *** kick/#bzflag [the_lone_tanker!n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 21:22.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@69.8.5.103] by brlcad |
| 21:23.27 | Winny | ~Sportchick++ |
| 21:23.50 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=faber@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 21:23.54 | SportChick | JeffM2501/brlcad: he's making the bz-rounds |
| 21:24.04 | JeffM2501 | not much we can do about that |
| 21:24.05 | JeffM2501 | dynamic |
| 21:24.13 | brlcad | is it? |
| 21:24.18 | Winny | yeah |
| 21:24.21 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:24.23 | Winny | he was on last night with a different IP |
| 21:24.28 | Winny | (not here, a server) |
| 21:25.12 | randomparticle | can bz screenshotting be made more efficient? |
| 21:25.23 | randomparticle | as in drastically |
| 21:25.24 | JeffM2501 | it can be put into a thread for compression |
| 21:25.29 | JeffM2501 | but that's about it |
| 21:26.00 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:26.15 | randomparticle | someone was muttering that glreadpixels is inefficient |
| 21:26.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah it is |
| 21:26.28 | JeffM2501 | but that's all we can do |
| 21:26.31 | randomparticle | k |
| 21:26.42 | Winny | brlcad, none I bet |
| 21:26.47 | JeffM2501 | best woudl be having a real engine that can render to a texture |
| 21:26.53 | JeffM2501 | but I don't think that would save THAT much |
| 21:26.58 | JeffM2501 | it's all dwarved by the compression |
| 21:26.59 | randomparticle | ic |
| 21:27.18 | randomparticle | atm it's too slow to render movies real-time on most machines |
| 21:27.41 | Winny | I put in a 69.8.*.* ban on my server(s) |
| 21:27.46 | randomparticle | other games can slow up/down to render avi's, but obviously that'd be a lot of work |
| 21:28.04 | JeffM2501 | randomparticle, yes they have better sim systems |
| 21:28.26 | Constitution | JeffM2501: I dunno what (if anything) brlcad gets from sagonet... one would think that if they ask for it, they'll give him some benefit :) |
| 21:28.42 | Winny | he gets his soul back :O |
| 21:28.44 | JeffM2501 | randomparticle, it's hard to do movies of realtime data |
| 21:28.59 | JeffM2501 | sicne you basicly have to log it and send it to a record thread or something |
| 21:29.05 | randomparticle | ic |
| 21:29.15 | Constitution | L4m3r: are you sure about the burrow collision thing? I seem to recall that burrowed tanks can't kill each other with contact |
| 21:29.26 | randomparticle | i was getting reasonably good results at 1680x1050 using the horribly named ishowu |
| 21:29.34 | randomparticle | about 30fps |
| 21:29.57 | Winny | ~ping |
| 21:29.57 | ibot | pong |
| 21:29.59 | Winny | hmm |
| 21:30.01 | randomparticle | that's the only one i've tried |
| 21:30.38 | Winny | WOW network issues today |
| 21:30.55 | randomparticle | maybe i give fraps a go sometime |
| 21:31.14 | JeffM2501 | fraps is suposed to be rather good |
| 21:31.21 | JeffM2501 | it works in WoW and stuff |
| 21:33.11 | randomparticle | i might try adding some sort of avi creation to bzflag and running in a second thread |
| 21:33.33 | randomparticle | nothing fancy. just use the energy saver to keep a steadyish framerate |
| 21:33.52 | JeffM2501 | spliting out the compression would help it be a lot more managable |
| 21:33.56 | awilcox | randomparticle: won't that be amazingly inefficient on disk space? |
| 21:34.19 | awilcox | and won't it also be extremely processor intensive? |
| 21:35.13 | randomparticle | prohibitively? i don't know :) |
| 21:35.34 | awilcox | :) |
| 21:35.57 | randomparticle | obviously the disk space/cpu usage thing is a trade-off |
| 21:36.14 | awilcox | even raw captures can be a bit of a CPU hog |
| 21:36.29 | awilcox | but uncompressed AVI can use about 8MB/sec |
| 21:36.50 | awilcox | and that's at 640x480 (iirc). |
| 21:37.07 | Winny | Server admins: I suggest setting bans on 69.8.*.* and 72.9.*.* to take care of the lone tanker |
| 21:37.11 | Winny | that would be his ISP's range |
| 21:37.40 | awilcox | I couldn't even imagine how large one second of AVI would be with 32-bit, 48000Hz, 2ch sound and 1680x1050x32-bit vidoe |
| 21:37.54 | randomparticle | pretty large i imagine :) |
| 21:38.15 | randomparticle | i made some recordings from Quake 4. it produces a sequence of tga's |
| 21:38.36 | randomparticle | it's easy to eat up the GBs that way |
| 21:39.48 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang___ (n=chatzill@88-108-140-68.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:40.43 | randomparticle | i think you'd probably get around 30s for half a gig. just guessing, mind |
| 21:42.52 | randomparticle | how long is it taking you chaps for a full compile of bzflag, approx? |
| 21:44.34 | randomparticle | i imagine jeff's box gets it compiled in double-quick time |
| 21:44.46 | Constitution | about 10-15 minutes |
| 21:45.04 | randomparticle | not bad at all, const |
| 21:51.13 | awilcox | randomparticle: my Celeron/1600 with inadequate RAM compiles bzflag in an hour and a half on Linux, and about the same time in VC++7.1 |
| 21:51.28 | randomparticle | blimey! ^^ |
| 21:53.47 | awilcox | it's got 440MB RAM |
| 21:54.08 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-067-079.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:54.26 | awilcox | I don't really know why it's so slow; to be honest, that Celeron/1600 has been about equal with my Celeron/500 on all accounts. I'm wondering if it's about ready to die :( |
| 21:54.37 | randomparticle | i'm surprised it takes that long. i used to do it in about 20 mins on a 647MHz PIII with 320MB memory |
| 21:55.11 | awilcox | randomparticle: yeah see, it's been uber slow lately =/ |
| 21:55.12 | randomparticle | speedstepping? :) |
| 21:56.12 | awilcox | randomparticle: I don't think so. I've used it on AC power for months now |
| 21:59.22 | randomparticle | so we have one 10 mins and one 90 mins in the great bz compiler race :) |
| 22:04.34 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang___ (n=chatzill@88-108-237-193.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:08.44 | Constitution | ~blast007++ |
| 22:08.57 | Winny | ~Constitution-- |
| 22:09.41 | Winny | :) |
| 22:10.08 | Constitution | apparently you missed all the work I did last night so you could have hideadmin with player slots :P |
| 22:10.30 | Winny | then don't join as "CRW" :p |
| 22:11.05 | Winny | :) |
| 22:11.23 | Winny | ~Constitution++ |
| 22:12.03 | Constitution | ~karma |
| 22:12.03 | ibot | constitution has karma of 40 |
| 22:12.21 | Constitution | cool |
| 22:12.42 | Winny | ~karma |
| 22:12.42 | ibot | winny has karma of 39 |
| 22:12.45 | Winny | :( |
| 22:13.09 | jftsang | I've been thinking... you have a master ban list, so why not make a master admin list? say you needed an admin on a server (as some people generally come on here and shout "HAY WE NEED ADMIN ON <server>") you always have a few... |
| 22:13.18 | jftsang | and you could have -noMasterAdmins or something |
| 22:13.26 | JeffM2501 | becuase we don't run servers |
| 22:13.29 | JeffM2501 | we are not cops |
| 22:13.35 | JeffM2501 | somone could make a cop system |
| 22:13.37 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 22:13.40 | JeffM2501 | but that would be opt in |
| 22:13.43 | JeffM2501 | not opt out |
| 22:13.53 | jftsang | yes.. opt in |
| 22:13.56 | jftsang | but you get the idea |
| 22:14.02 | JeffM2501 | that's the idea of the CAN |
| 22:14.09 | jftsang | and if you don't run servers, then why masterbans? |
| 22:14.17 | JeffM2501 | masterbans are optional |
| 22:14.19 | JeffM2501 | but default on |
| 22:14.29 | JeffM2501 | and only used for public service abbusers |
| 22:14.37 | JeffM2501 | having admins is difrent |
| 22:14.42 | JeffM2501 | masterban is rather small |
| 22:14.52 | jftsang | well, my point is that masteradmins should be optional too |
| 22:14.56 | JeffM2501 | doing admins means we'd have to have formal rules |
| 22:15.00 | jftsang | true |
| 22:15.10 | JeffM2501 | jftsang, sure, set it up, and tell people to add your group |
| 22:15.14 | JeffM2501 | the tech is there |
| 22:15.21 | JeffM2501 | we just don't want to make it part of the project |
| 22:15.31 | JeffM2501 | masterban is as far as we'll go right now |
| 22:15.36 | jftsang | ok. |
| 22:15.37 | JeffM2501 | admin is a MUCH larger job |
| 22:16.52 | brlcad | and rather time consuming |
| 22:17.12 | brlcad | lots of people can be great admins |
| 22:17.24 | JeffM2501 | the big thing would be ensuring that your rules are leienent enough to allow for people to actualy RUN servers the way they want,and strict enough so that there are checks and balances against an admin going bonkers |
| 22:17.37 | JeffM2501 | masterban is actualy the worst idea I've ever had |
| 22:17.43 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:17.47 | JeffM2501 | it should have been done as a CAN like thing |
| 22:17.50 | JeffM2501 | not a flat list |
| 22:17.58 | JeffM2501 | because that's what people want |
| 22:17.59 | brlcad | it fixed a problem at the time |
| 22:18.04 | brlcad | and was really quick to implement |
| 22:18.07 | JeffM2501 | it pushed a problem back in time |
| 22:18.08 | JeffM2501 | that's all |
| 22:18.11 | JeffM2501 | I can't say it fixed it |
| 22:18.12 | brlcad | CAN is more heavy |
| 22:18.16 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 22:18.20 | JeffM2501 | can is heavy |
| 22:18.29 | JeffM2501 | CAN can't work till reg is required tho |
| 22:18.59 | Winny | I really would like to see some kind of nagware built into the client |
| 22:19.02 | brlcad | unless a player happens to be excessively active AND a dev and loads of free time, I don't think most devs should also be admins except as an absolute last resort |
| 22:19.10 | Winny | like, every 20 min it says "hai, register plz" |
| 22:19.31 | JeffM2501 | Winny, that's a stupid way |
| 22:19.40 | JeffM2501 | simply make the game HELP you regser when you install it and run it |
| 22:20.00 | JeffM2501 | have a dialog box that comes up "this server requires registration, please register HERE" |
| 22:20.06 | Winny | ahh |
| 22:20.08 | Winny | good idea |
| 22:20.27 | brlcad | there are plenty of really good trustworthy players to pull from to admin servers -- shouldn't need to take time away from devs, only so many people can write code |
| 22:20.37 | Winny | then they enter a username, pass, email, and then a validation thing is sent to them? |
| 22:20.39 | brlcad | same goes for the web services |
| 22:20.47 | JeffM2501 | thats why CAN should be indepenednet of the project |
| 22:20.49 | JeffM2501 | made of players |
| 22:20.50 | JeffM2501 | not devs |
| 22:21.11 | JeffM2501 | Winny, I'd like to have a mode where some servers are set up that will let registered, but unverifies players play |
| 22:21.14 | JeffM2501 | so you install |
| 22:21.14 | JeffM2501 | reg |
| 22:21.16 | brlcad | just requires the devs to set it all up :) |
| 22:21.17 | L4m3r | I think CAN should be part of the project |
| 22:21.20 | JeffM2501 | play on a subset of servers |
| 22:21.26 | JeffM2501 | untill you verify your e-mail |
| 22:21.29 | JeffM2501 | then you get the rest |
| 22:21.30 | Winny | ah |
| 22:21.35 | L4m3r | but no, I don't think devs should do the actual policing :P |
| 22:21.39 | JeffM2501 | that would be optimal |
| 22:21.58 | JeffM2501 | the CAN plugin and tech should be part of the project |
| 22:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 22:22.12 | JeffM2501 | but the acutal network and it's PEOPLE should not be |
| 22:22.22 | JeffM2501 | devs may be in CAN sure |
| 22:22.28 | L4m3r | yeah, maintenance and oversight only |
| 22:22.32 | JeffM2501 | no oversight |
| 22:22.45 | JeffM2501 | totaly seperate |
| 22:22.49 | JeffM2501 | just the tech |
| 22:22.57 | JeffM2501 | keeps it clean |
| 22:24.03 | Winny | would any of the devs be interested in working on coding this sort of thing? |
| 22:24.22 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure you could find somone to help you |
| 22:24.26 | Constitution | using the system would bring ideas to mind and bring bugs to light, I imagine |
| 22:24.29 | JeffM2501 | the tech isn't that complex |
| 22:25.08 | Constitution | it's hard to separate the devs from the gameplay |
| 22:25.25 | Constitution | silvercat, for instance, was administered by a team of mostly developers |
| 22:25.30 | JeffM2501 | that' fine |
| 22:25.38 | JeffM2501 | that's an admin who also happens to be a dev |
| 22:25.51 | JeffM2501 | devs should NOT be made admins by default |
| 22:25.56 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@59.154.120.204) |
| 22:25.59 | JeffM2501 | people can wear more then one hat |
| 22:26.07 | JeffM2501 | but one hat should not give more then one job |
| 22:26.38 | JeffM2501 | thats why it's important to seperate |
| 22:27.03 | jftsang | I think if those who are always on IRC (or otherwise online) are the admins... not necessarily devs... |
| 22:27.04 | L4m3r | oversight of CAN, not servers :P |
| 22:27.11 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, even then |
| 22:27.20 | JeffM2501 | oversight of can can influence the polity |
| 22:27.24 | L4m3r | just, you know, make sure things don't get out of hand |
| 22:27.35 | JeffM2501 | if it gets out of hand, the servers will drop it |
| 22:27.41 | JeffM2501 | its' self regulating ;) |
| 22:28.05 | JeffM2501 | now if say they want hosting on .bz, then sure someone like brlad can have some say in what they do |
| 22:28.10 | JeffM2501 | but that's between him and them |
| 22:28.45 | L4m3r | yeah, but if it's part of the project, we should not allow it to be abused |
| 22:28.49 | L4m3r | just like any other service |
| 22:29.21 | JeffM2501 | the other services arn't "part" of the project |
| 22:29.22 | L4m3r | I don't care what's going on with actual servers, just what people would be doing with CAN itself, in such a situation |
| 22:29.23 | JeffM2501 | that's the key |
| 22:29.29 | JeffM2501 | the list software is |
| 22:29.48 | JeffM2501 | but the list data itself is not open source but provided by one of the project's developers cus he's cool |
| 22:29.56 | JeffM2501 | that's the key seperation there |
| 22:29.56 | L4m3r | what about bzbb? |
| 22:30.00 | JeffM2501 | same thing |
| 22:30.00 | Constitution | also, the devs/project admins/bzbb admins are the ones people generally know about and trust... finding admins that everyone is comfortable with might be difficult |
| 22:30.22 | jftsang | I agree with Constitution |
| 22:30.26 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, sure it makes senst for that seperate CAN thing to ask trusted devs and admins |
| 22:30.36 | JeffM2501 | but that is them acting SEPERATE from the project |
| 22:31.23 | JeffM2501 | it's very important to recongise what "the project" is |
| 22:31.36 | JeffM2501 | techincaly"the project" is just the code and the license, all run by tim |
| 22:32.02 | JeffM2501 | Tim, personaly provides dns names for a lot of peoiple |
| 22:32.06 | JeffM2501 | out of the kindness of his heart |
| 22:32.10 | JeffM2501 | but that has nothing to do with the project |
| 22:32.36 | JeffM2501 | Sean provides the list and bzbb services out of the kindness of his heart, to make playing easer, but has nothing to do with the project |
| 22:32.40 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 22:32.49 | JeffM2501 | sourceforge provides us hosting in the projet's name |
| 22:32.55 | JeffM2501 | but is seperate |
| 22:33.18 | JeffM2501 | so as far as the "project" is concerned, it can only do tech |
| 22:34.05 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it'd be a good idea for the current project administrators to add some sort of social controll system as part of what we do |
| 22:34.13 | JeffM2501 | that would be better done as a community thing |
| 22:34.18 | JeffM2501 | seperate |
| 22:34.37 | JeffM2501 | not saying it can't PULL from trusted people in the devs |
| 22:34.38 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 22:34.46 | Constitution | yeah... separation of services from code |
| 22:34.48 | JeffM2501 | but I don't thik it should be for instance put on the main page of bzflag. |
| 22:34.56 | JeffM2501 | or tied into dev accounts |
| 22:35.07 | L4m3r | oh, of course not |
| 22:35.13 | JeffM2501 | if that CAN project wants to ask Sean for hosting, and he agrees, GREAT |
| 22:35.26 | JeffM2501 | if the CAN project wants to ask Tim for domains and he agreees, GREAT |
| 22:35.42 | JeffM2501 | if that can project asks a number of developers to stand by as an overisight and they agree, GERAT |
| 22:35.46 | JeffM2501 | but that's all seperate |
| 22:36.10 | L4m3r | sounds like splitting hairs, but ok. I see it as being on the same level as bzbb, the list, global auth, etc |
| 22:36.15 | JeffM2501 | the importance for sepratin is the fact that the project REALY is just TIM |
| 22:36.33 | JeffM2501 | and if he goes, that part of the project goes with him |
| 22:36.52 | JeffM2501 | by keeping it seperate it can go on it's own |
| 22:37.04 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, it is, but it's important to understand |
| 22:37.38 | JeffM2501 | I mean if the bzbb data was part of the project, we'd have to give out everone's e-mail address to anyone that asked for the soruce ;) |
| 22:38.27 | JeffM2501 | but I have no problem with the develoipers working on plug-ins or pages or whatnot to facilitate a CAN network |
| 22:38.35 | JeffM2501 | and making that part of the project |
| 22:38.56 | JeffM2501 | and in doing that, they can also help develop what a good example policy could be |
| 22:39.00 | JeffM2501 | and make the tech work well with that |
| 22:39.09 | JeffM2501 | just like the list server |
| 22:39.34 | JeffM2501 | remember that the list server is a slightly modified copy of what's in soruce ;) |
| 22:39.39 | JeffM2501 | so the CAN would be as well |
| 22:39.39 | L4m3r | heh |
| 22:40.09 | JeffM2501 | it would be a use of the proejcts software by a group of peopele who also happened to be developers or admins. |
| 22:40.53 | Constitution | would the development of said plugin be an appropriate task for GSOC? |
| 22:41.10 | Constitution | if we do that again |
| 22:41.20 | Winny | Gee Sock |
| 22:41.23 | JeffM2501 | I think there are better tasks for SoC |
| 22:41.29 | JeffM2501 | but that'd be up to the sudents |
| 22:41.38 | JeffM2501 | since they propose them |
| 22:41.49 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it'd be a bad thing to offer as a sugestion |
| 22:41.54 | Constitution | perhaps... although gsoc does seem to be the most successful way of generating code recently |
| 22:41.59 | JeffM2501 | but I'm not going to vote for it over say a new 3d engine. |
| 22:42.07 | Winny | yay |
| 22:42.08 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, then that means we fail |
| 22:42.16 | JeffM2501 | if we can't write code the project is dead |
| 22:42.25 | JeffM2501 | and then the CAN won't matter |
| 22:42.40 | Constitution | I thought the 3D engine was said to not be a good GSoC project too... something about being too big? |
| 22:42.43 | L4m3r | one could argue that the project is dead anyway, but I won't go there :P |
| 22:42.48 | Constitution | or too involved with the codebase |
| 22:42.53 | JeffM2501 | implementing one in full woudl be |
| 22:42.59 | JeffM2501 | but doing the research and staring it woudn't |
| 22:43.13 | JeffM2501 | SoC projects don't have to have an "end" product |
| 22:43.22 | JeffM2501 | you could do SoC and just fix a bunch of bugs |
| 22:43.29 | JeffM2501 | they are NOT like school projects |
| 22:43.38 | JeffM2501 | they are real world "work in open soruce" stuff |
| 22:44.00 | JeffM2501 | I mean look at our last SoC |
| 22:44.06 | JeffM2501 | how much of that code is in daily use? |
| 22:44.52 | Winny | none? |
| 22:44.57 | JeffM2501 | bingo |
| 22:45.49 | JeffM2501 | but sure, if they do SoC again, and we join it, and we get accepted, it is not a bad idea to throw that out as a sugested idea |
| 22:45.49 | Constitution | heh |
| 22:46.24 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (n=ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:46.36 | L4m3r | do the projects have to be individual? |
| 22:46.39 | JeffM2501 | but it looks bad for the people that are going to RUN that network, if they wern't willing to write it first |
| 22:46.44 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, techincaly no |
| 22:46.59 | JeffM2501 | all the mentors have to do is be able to verify the work of each individual |
| 22:47.09 | JeffM2501 | techincaly none of them are individual |
| 22:47.12 | L4m3r | so we could theoretically task two students to, say, making an engine-based client together? |
| 22:47.15 | JeffM2501 | since they are working IN live open soruce |
| 22:47.23 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, we can't task them at all |
| 22:47.31 | JeffM2501 | we dont' tell them what to do |
| 22:47.34 | JeffM2501 | they say what they want to do |
| 22:47.42 | JeffM2501 | 2 students could say they want to work on it |
| 22:47.44 | JeffM2501 | and that'd be fine |
| 22:47.54 | JeffM2501 | and I'd hope devs would work on it WITH them |
| 22:47.59 | L4m3r | yes, but say we get two students who are into that and want to work on it |
| 22:48.07 | JeffM2501 | then yes we can talk to them |
| 22:48.16 | JeffM2501 | and sugest that they work together |
| 22:48.20 | JeffM2501 | and then flag them both |
| 22:48.23 | JeffM2501 | and bam they go |
| 22:48.30 | jorgenpt | I don't think you can apply for a joint project |
| 22:48.35 | JeffM2501 | basicly google dosnt' care what they do, as long as they DO |
| 22:48.42 | jorgenpt | Like, two students saying they want to work together on something XYZ |
| 22:48.42 | JeffM2501 | you don't have to apply as a joint project |
| 22:48.55 | JeffM2501 | you all seem to be stuck in the student mindset of classwork |
| 22:49.00 | JeffM2501 | SoC is not a class |
| 22:49.05 | jorgenpt | But I guess they could send in the same project, and if they were lucky they both get accepted, and then they could work together, yes. |
| 22:49.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah, the submistion is more for the student then the project |
| 22:49.29 | jorgenpt | I just remember reading in the FAQ about projects involving more than one student' |
| 22:49.32 | JeffM2501 | google just wants to make sure they do things |
| 22:49.48 | Constitution | we would have to be careful that both students are held accountable to do their work, since the one would be dependant on the other |
| 22:49.51 | JeffM2501 | we did our SoC badly IMHO |
| 22:49.55 | JeffM2501 | we just let them go off |
| 22:49.58 | JeffM2501 | and that was bad |
| 22:50.03 | JeffM2501 | we should have worked with them |
| 22:50.08 | JeffM2501 | real devs working on the code too |
| 22:50.19 | JeffM2501 | all it would have done is made MORE get done |
| 22:50.22 | JeffM2501 | and more people undderstand it |
| 22:50.26 | JeffM2501 | it's about colaboration |
| 22:50.34 | jorgenpt | Constitution: Yes, and if their code is too intermingled, you might end up with one student slowing down the others progress. |
| 22:50.37 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, that's what source controll does ;) |
| 22:50.48 | JeffM2501 | jorgenpt, that's part of learning how to work WITH people |
| 22:50.50 | JeffM2501 | comunication |
| 22:50.52 | jorgenpt | Of course |
| 22:50.56 | JeffM2501 | again you all think like students ;) |
| 22:50.59 | jorgenpt | No |
| 22:51.02 | JeffM2501 | the point is to get you all ready for real jobs |
| 22:51.18 | jorgenpt | Two people learning to communicate without anyone with prior experience takes a helluva lot longer than if they had someone with experience. |
| 22:51.37 | *** join/#bzflag AHA (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 22:52.02 | Constitution | prior experience, in what sense? |
| 22:52.12 | JeffM2501 | that's why they work WITH devs |
| 22:52.20 | JeffM2501 | not that "go off and work" thing we did last time |
| 22:52.21 | jorgenpt | Yes, that I agree. |
| 22:52.43 | jorgenpt | Constitution: E.g. established members of the project. |
| 22:53.14 | JeffM2501 | jorgenpt, your point goes the same for ONE student dev, they will get lost if they don't have experienced help as well ;) |
| 22:53.38 | JeffM2501 | it just gets worse the more you add |
| 22:53.52 | JeffM2501 | so if we do it again this year I'd like to see us all taking a difrent track |
| 22:54.11 | JeffM2501 | more 'you come here, you work on it, we work on it, everyone gets LOTS done' |
| 22:54.39 | jorgenpt | JeffM2501: Yes, clearly. |
| 22:54.50 | JeffM2501 | what I got from the mentor sumit was that every student I saw was freting the letters of the google rules, and google dons't give much care to them ;) |
| 22:55.04 | JeffM2501 | basicly if the mentor says the student is cool, google pays |
| 22:55.06 | JeffM2501 | that's IT |
| 22:55.25 | jorgenpt | I guess it takes quite a bit of involvement from the mentor, which can be frustrating - since the student is paid, but the pay for the mentor is only symbolic. |
| 22:55.30 | JeffM2501 | well that and the student dosn't call the google people bad names :) |
| 22:55.36 | jorgenpt | Haha :p |
| 22:55.40 | Constitution | jorgenpt: yeah, although there's no guarantee that the applications that end up getting accepted will be from studenst who are already involved |
| 22:55.48 | JeffM2501 | well the mentor has agreed to do it for the benifit of the project |
| 22:55.52 | JeffM2501 | that's why they do it |
| 22:55.55 | Constitution | I mean, how many existing student devs applied last year? one? |
| 22:55.58 | JeffM2501 | to get more people working on the THING |
| 22:56.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:56.13 | jorgenpt | Constitution: I'm referring to mentors, not student, if you mean with regards to communication. |
| 22:56.19 | Constitution | oh |
| 22:57.03 | JeffM2501 | this time the mentors should do what they can to get other developers/comunity memembers inovled in the projects as well |
| 22:57.26 | jorgenpt | JeffM2501: The whole evaluation of applications and such is on a very .. vague and time-consuming basis. Students are merely stretching for some real way to judge their chance of success and such. |
| 22:57.28 | JeffM2501 | not only so you get good input on the design and colaboation in work, but it also helps the sudent see his stuff is used. |
| 22:58.01 | JeffM2501 | jorgenpt, the best way to get your application accepted is to comunicate with the project beforehand |
| 22:58.07 | jorgenpt | JeffM2501: Absolutely |
| 22:58.08 | JeffM2501 | eveyrone we picked were people that talked to us |
| 22:58.12 | JeffM2501 | that's it |
| 22:58.13 | jorgenpt | I can't help but feel guilty about not having dedicated any amount of time to bzrobots after gsoc. :-/ |
| 22:58.21 | JeffM2501 | I don't think google even read what the projects were :) |
| 22:58.37 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:58.38 | JeffM2501 | if only to make sure they wern't obviously lame or illegal |
| 22:58.56 | Erroneous | we got some applicants that were obviously lame :) |
| 22:58.58 | jorgenpt | Yeah, fraudulent applications too. |
| 22:58.59 | Erroneous | like the ant guy |
| 22:59.00 | JeffM2501 | jorgenpt, that's a common thing, few people stayed as devs it seems |
| 22:59.04 | jorgenpt | ant guy? |
| 22:59.05 | JeffM2501 | yeah like the ant guy |
| 22:59.11 | JeffM2501 | wanted to do an ant sim |
| 22:59.17 | JeffM2501 | he spammed all the projects |
| 22:59.37 | Erroneous | that was one of several that didn't even include the word "bzflag" in it :) |
| 22:59.39 | JeffM2501 | at the summit, google basicly said "whatever makes you happy" like 50 times |
| 22:59.46 | JeffM2501 | but we filtered that out |
| 22:59.48 | jorgenpt | JeffM2501: I really wish I had more time to put into it, but besides school, work and a girlfriend, I barely have time to dedicate to the project(s) I already have some form of obligation to. :p |
| 22:59.58 | jorgenpt | Erroneous: Nice |
| 22:59.59 | JeffM2501 | I think that second round orgs rarely even get read |
| 23:00.12 | JeffM2501 | jorgenpt, welcome to the real world ;) |
| 23:00.17 | jorgenpt | Hehe |
| 23:00.22 | Erroneous | jorgenpt: same is true for all of us :) |
| 23:00.26 | jorgenpt | Second round orgs? |
| 23:00.34 | JeffM2501 | you know how many people at google actualy work on SoC? |
| 23:00.46 | JeffM2501 | projects that are in for a second or more year |
| 23:00.50 | JeffM2501 | not first timers |
| 23:00.51 | Erroneous | 'course I think the last time I committed anything substantial was a couple months ago... |
| 23:01.00 | jorgenpt | No, how many? |
| 23:01.24 | JeffM2501 | one head, one worker, one admin, one web guy, and one web guy intern |
| 23:01.33 | Erroneous | basically three |
| 23:01.34 | jorgenpt | Haha, cool |
| 23:01.35 | JeffM2501 | and SoC is not there only task |
| 23:01.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:01.40 | JeffM2501 | 3 part time |
| 23:01.45 | Erroneous | one full time, three some of the time |
| 23:01.58 | JeffM2501 | I don't think les was even full time |
| 23:02.00 | Erroneous | ah, and the intern |
| 23:02.17 | JeffM2501 | so I doubt they read every project |
| 23:02.23 | JeffM2501 | they use the mentor orgs as BIG filters |
| 23:09.41 | Constitution | where did the responses to the rejected GSoC applications end up? |
| 23:10.24 | Constitution | still "when we can get to it," or something? |
| 23:10.56 | *** join/#bzflag zee699 (n=189aa42b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-8d90fff8d33ab0c8) |
| 23:12.30 | brlcad | Constitution: mm, something like that -- many have been responded to (more than half) |
| 23:12.39 | brlcad | just not a handful |
| 23:12.54 | Constitution | ok |
| 23:15.52 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-067-079.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 23:21.22 | brlcad | there was a question as to whether to make the submissions and responses public at one point, but since we didn't make any statement/claim beforehand that we might do that, I don't think it'd be right |
| 23:22.55 | Constitution | well some kind of comment on the merits of the application would be nice |
| 23:23.03 | brlcad | but I can, should, and will still be posting up the summary writeup that was sent in to google |
| 23:23.26 | Constitution | cool |
| 23:23.31 | jorgenpt | \o( |
| 23:26.46 | brlcad | in fact, lemme put it somewhere now .. |
| 23:29.11 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:29.49 | jorgenpt | :o |
| 23:31.17 | jorgenpt | How long is it, brlcad? |
| 23:32.25 | awilcox | jorgenpt: I don't recognise your nick, but you seem to have been here a while -- as a lurker who was on vacation and didn't lurk during it, I must ask, who are you? |
| 23:33.09 | jorgenpt | daxxar, my GSoC project was bzrobots. |
| 23:33.16 | awilcox | ahhhhhhh okay. |
| 23:33.26 | jorgenpt | If that rings any bells :) |
| 23:33.30 | awilcox | yes |
| 23:33.39 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:34.09 | brlcad | jorgenpt: about 300 pages |
| 23:34.13 | jorgenpt | jorgenpt is my first name plus the initials of my two last. I merely switched to it for some purposes where my usual nick made no sense. |
| 23:34.20 | Constitution | that few? |
| 23:34.22 | Winny | brlcad, size 72 font? |
| 23:34.22 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Wow. :) |
| 23:34.35 | brlcad | Winny: yeah ;) |
| 23:34.39 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:34.41 | awilcox | jorgenpt: i.e. why I am now awilcox (I was AWOSDev many many years ago) |
| 23:34.44 | jorgenpt | (or, my usual nick never makes any sense, but where it made no sense to keep it) |
| 23:34.56 | jorgenpt | Hehe ;-) |
| 23:35.06 | awilcox | ;_ |
| 23:35.08 | awilcox | er ;) |
| 23:35.08 | brlcad | looks like "the lone tanker" started playing under than name as of Aug 2007 |
| 23:35.26 | Winny | brlcad, just ban 69.8.*.* and 72.9.*.* and be done with him |
| 23:35.52 | jorgenpt | Isn't that a bit .. wide for a ban? |
| 23:36.01 | Winny | it's some obscure dualip provider |
| 23:36.03 | sigonasr2 | That's normal when you have annoying cheaters |
| 23:36.07 | jorgenpt | dualip? |
| 23:36.19 | Winny | my logs don't show anyone but hum coming from that address span |
| 23:36.22 | Winny | err, dialup |
| 23:36.37 | jorgenpt | Oh. Hehe. ;-) |
| 23:36.38 | awilcox | lol. |
| 23:36.38 | Winny | dyslexics untie! |
| 23:36.47 | jorgenpt | And now you'll never see anyone coming from it ;) |
| 23:36.52 | awilcox | haha. |
| 23:37.08 | awilcox | I thought Winny meant that it was giving him two IPs (i.e. 69.8 and 72.9) |
| 23:37.19 | jorgenpt | Yeah, ditto |
| 23:37.35 | jorgenpt | Seemed kinda strange to have a specific _term_ for ISPs that gave you two IPs. |
| 23:37.41 | awilcox | Haha. |
| 23:37.47 | jorgenpt | What about triip, quadip providers? |
| 23:38.03 | awilcox | My ISP goes up to a fiverip iirc. |
| 23:38.07 | Winny | 72.9.*.* = range ban |
| 23:38.07 | jorgenpt | You'd run out of usable words kinda fast. |
| 23:38.09 | brlcad | Winny: that was done hours ago |
| 23:38.13 | jorgenpt | Winny: No wai! |
| 23:38.26 | Winny | "two IPs (i.e. 69.8 and 72.9)" ... |
| 23:38.32 | jorgenpt | That's a /16, innit? |
| 23:38.44 | jorgenpt | I guess he meant one in the range foo and one in the range bar. |
| 23:39.00 | brlcad | do you have a specific 72.9 ip example? |
| 23:39.23 | Winny | 72.9.67.212 |
| 23:39.34 | awilcox | jorgenpt: I don't remember how to express netmasks like that, but er, it's a 255.255.0.0 mask (FFFF) |
| 23:40.02 | jorgenpt | /16 means that the first 16 bits (two octets) are unchanged |
| 23:40.43 | jorgenpt | E.g. I have a quadip provider, which actually provides me with a /30, but they route the network and broadcast addresses normally. |
| 23:40.52 | jorgenpt | So I just use those as normal IPs. ;-) |
| 23:41.30 | jorgenpt | If you use their setup, you get one IP (router takes one, one for broadcast, one for network, the last is given to the first DHCP client) |
| 23:41.40 | brlcad | Winny: th |
| 23:41.41 | brlcad | x |
| 23:41.57 | awilcox | ah |
| 23:42.01 | Winny | brlcad, from the 69.8 range, he used 69.8.5.103 |
| 23:42.38 | jorgenpt | But it's pretty cool, because if you WHOIS the IP, you'll see it in the name of my dad. (which is where this machine is located, at my mum & dads place) |
| 23:42.39 | awilcox | jorgenpt: a /30 would be 255.255.255.192, correct? |
| 23:43.03 | uso | his bzid 26084 may also help, if you check IPs on the forum |
| 23:43.25 | jorgenpt | If 192 is 11000000 in binary, then yes, awilcox. :-) |
| 23:43.48 | awilcox | yes, it is. |
| 23:43.49 | awilcox | :) |
| 23:43.59 | jorgenpt | Though, my setup isn't exactly like that: |
| 23:44.00 | jorgenpt | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.00 | awilcox | jorgenpt: $ whois wack.idi.ntnu.no |
| 23:44.05 | awilcox | jorgenpt: % no matches |
| 23:44.07 | jorgenpt | Oh, sorry, the wrong link. |
| 23:44.12 | jorgenpt | This is via an irssiproxy |
| 23:44.28 | jorgenpt | Whois 213.145.191.128 |
| 23:44.40 | awilcox | Norway, eh? |
| 23:44.52 | jorgenpt | Yes |
| 23:44.58 | jorgenpt | In any case, you have to whois the IP, not the domain. |
| 23:45.00 | uso | /30 is .252 |
| 23:45.05 | uso | .192 is /26 |
| 23:45.10 | jorgenpt | Err, of course. My bad. |
| 23:45.23 | jorgenpt | /30 would be the last two bits unset, not the first two bits set. |
| 23:45.42 | jorgenpt | I blame that it's late. ;-) |
| 23:45.43 | awilcox | Heh. |
| 23:46.21 | brlcad | Winny: I have all the 69.8 .. they are actually limited to a class C |
| 23:46.52 | brlcad | banning the class B was excessive but fortunately I don't see anyone else coming from the rest of the B |
| 23:47.25 | Winny | brlcad, which is why I have a whitelist group :) |
| 23:47.50 | jorgenpt | Sorry for lying to you, awilcox :-( |
| 23:49.16 | awilcox | jorgenpt: heh, that's not a problem :) not your fault. |
| 23:49.46 | jorgenpt | Darn math! Always getting in the way. |
| 23:49.56 | awilcox | ~lart math |
| 23:49.56 | ibot | DoSes math |
| 23:50.24 | jorgenpt | Pseudo-science ftw! "Yellow blood cell count?" |
| 23:50.27 | awilcox | er, <offtopic>anybody know something like xcopy but move instead of copy?</offtopic> |