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| 00:32.42 | nn-main | Please some one play me on war of the wolds by peter |
| 00:36.55 | Macrosoft | nn-main: just wait there, someone will show up |
| 00:40.23 | Winny | war of the wolds! |
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| 00:48.36 | Macrosoft | Winny: been reading scroolback; looks like nn's typos are contagious |
| 00:48.40 | Macrosoft | :P |
| 00:48.49 | Winny | ;) |
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| 15:14.01 | mrshlee | Would bzflags licence allow it to be released as a WiiWare product/ |
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| 15:14.39 | brlcad | mrshlee: sure, lgpl is pretty liberal |
| 15:16.06 | brlcad | basically just says that if you have to modify bzflag to get it to work as a wiiware product, and you publicly distribute it -- then you have to publicly provide that modified version |
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| 15:36.11 | mrshlee | WiiWare would require the code to closed by NDA.. :( |
| 15:36.26 | mrshlee | Ohhh well, I could see BZflag working well on the wii. |
| 15:36.47 | mrshlee | Nutchuck moving.. wiimote aiming.. trigger.. jump |
| 15:37.15 | scott | do they provide a mechanism for uploading your own code to the wii? |
| 15:37.45 | scott | t could be distributed from the sf.net |
| 15:39.30 | mrshlee | No, as it stands. The Wii is much like the 360.. |
| 15:39.42 | mrshlee | Limited without Nintendos direct approval. |
| 15:40.15 | brlcad | mrshlee: the public distribution would be the bzflag-mods -- not aspects that are specific to the wii |
| 15:40.17 | scott | :( |
| 15:40.52 | brlcad | the lgpl was specifically chosen because it pretty much allows those sorts of mods per most of the consoles |
| 16:15.50 | brlcad | mrshlee: and even if there still are issues, tim can grant a custom license as needed (and has said he would if anyone ever really did become serious about it) |
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| 18:22.07 | scott | cookies |
| 18:22.53 | JeffM2501 | always? |
| 18:23.08 | JeffM2501 | like a temp cookie? |
| 18:23.21 | ruskie | it can store sessions completly server side... |
| 18:23.28 | ruskie | no cookies whatsoever |
| 18:23.30 | JeffM2501 | how does it do that? |
| 18:23.34 | JeffM2501 | IP/port? |
| 18:23.44 | ruskie | uses a unique id string in the url |
| 18:23.54 | ruskie | and yeah... checks ip/browser/etc... |
| 18:23.57 | JeffM2501 | so it always has to do with a form? |
| 18:24.06 | JeffM2501 | and that string is sent back? |
| 18:24.32 | ruskie | yup |
| 18:24.46 | ruskie | usually cookies are used to store such a string |
| 18:24.49 | JeffM2501 | so realy that stores it in the HTML that is sent out, not just server side :) |
| 18:24.51 | ruskie | but it can work without them |
| 18:25.03 | JeffM2501 | k, thanks |
| 18:25.19 | ruskie | hastymail is what I use and has such feature... |
| 18:25.46 | ruskie | I guess it stores the cookie server side into session dir sess_$IDSTRING |
| 18:25.50 | ruskie | I think it's a hash possible |
| 18:26.15 | JeffM2501 | I can just send out a form var that gets set with a token and track it with the Ip/whatever. |
| 18:26.27 | ruskie | I guess |
| 18:27.35 | ruskie | I'm no php coder... but it's what I see and learn from administering projects... usually adds an id=79848f80a0687ca360d3e2087211fee2 |
| 18:27.38 | ruskie | to the params |
| 18:27.43 | JeffM2501 | makes sense |
| 18:28.03 | JeffM2501 | and with HTTP post you can keep that out of the URL |
| 18:28.58 | [dmp] | its not common for php to track using ip/port/browser/whatever. I've never seen it, and i doubt its very robust way of doing it. |
| 18:29.10 | ruskie | [dmp], it does it here... |
| 18:29.39 | JeffM2501 | cookie sounds like bestest |
| 18:29.46 | [dmp] | ruskie: still dosnt make it any better or more common :) |
| 18:29.46 | JeffM2501 | or a form field. |
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| 18:30.43 | JeffM2501 | tho if my pricing isn't good, it may all be for naught |
| 18:30.56 | ruskie | user|s:19:"user@domain";pass|pass";user_id|s:##:"10.0.0.2Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/0 Kazehakase/0.5.0" |
| 18:31.05 | ruskie | that's a part of the /tmp/sess_$ID file on the server |
| 18:31.22 | ruskie | if any of those changes it breaks... |
| 18:31.39 | scott | i seem to remember if the cookies are disabled you can transfer stuff via put/get |
| 18:31.41 | ruskie | it's enough that the user-agent changes or the ip changes and it'll break |
| 18:31.55 | [dmp] | ruskie: thats the content of the session. Not how the user is identified. php/session_start() gives an unique id and thats it.. Apps can do extras verifications if they want to |
| 18:32.07 | scott | nod |
| 18:32.34 | ruskie | [dmp], well which means they can verify any of the bits in there right? |
| 18:32.43 | brlcad | php has options to do the session id either as cookie or url or form fields and maybe a couple other methods iirc, and has means to choose the most appropriate automatically |
| 18:32.43 | [dmp] | ruskie: storing passwords in cookie files is also bad - especially if you use shared hosting |
| 18:33.04 | [dmp] | ruskie: yep, but thats app dependent, not the common way "php" (itself) does it |
| 18:33.06 | ruskie | [dmp], well in this case it's my own server :) |
| 18:33.11 | ruskie | and the pass in crypted |
| 18:33.18 | brlcad | so completely untrustable then? |
| 18:33.19 | ruskie | [dmp], well that's always good :) |
| 18:33.33 | ruskie | just provide a way to do it... |
| 18:33.44 | ruskie | let others figure how paranoid they want to get |
| 18:33.45 | [dmp] | ruskie: We tried add ip check at the ducati-league code, but just gave problems for (only/mostly) aol uses |
| 18:33.58 | ruskie | why? |
| 18:34.03 | [dmp] | ruskie: their cookie were rejected because the info didnt match up (ip) |
| 18:34.10 | ruskie | erm... |
| 18:34.22 | ruskie | are they behind a nat? or does stuff change while they are online? |
| 18:34.39 | JeffM2501 | how does the server get a cookie back? |
| 18:35.07 | brlcad | heh, http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/177-BzFlag-Launcher/ |
| 18:35.16 | [dmp] | ruskie: AOL proxies have a lot of ips, and the users can suddenly change between requests |
| 18:35.28 | ruskie | ahh |
| 18:35.30 | ruskie | fun |
| 18:35.54 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:36.23 | ruskie | /ban *!*@*.aol.* |
| 18:36.24 | JeffM2501 | my other quesion is, how good is php's TCP/IP socket support, for doing things such as comunicating with a plug-in? |
| 18:37.02 | [dmp] | JeffM2501: The cookie is sent to the server as a header by the browser (just like host: referer: etc) |
| 18:37.35 | JeffM2501 | and how does the server tell the browser to send that cookie? |
| 18:37.49 | JeffM2501 | or does it do it anyttime you hit a uRL of the domain? |
| 18:37.55 | [dmp] | JeffM2501: also headers - yep |
| 18:38.06 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 18:39.00 | [dmp] | JeffM2501: php got a session_start() that takes care of that (did browser supply a cookie-header, if so, read the session-file.. if not, create a unique id and set header for the reply) |
| 18:39.13 | JeffM2501 | well I may not be using php |
| 18:39.18 | JeffM2501 | I'm deciding |
| 18:39.30 | JeffM2501 | I'll need comunication to C code ( BZFS plug-ins ) |
| 18:39.57 | JeffM2501 | and the ability to start and stop processes |
| 18:40.04 | [dmp] | I think TCP/IP socket support is fine. Never had any trouble with it (but havnt used it for anything else than fetching whois info and http requests) |
| 18:40.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah I assume it's more for query type things |
| 18:40.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd need something to keep a constant connection |
| 18:40.53 | JeffM2501 | to verify that servers are still up, etc.. |
| 18:42.39 | [dmp] | My bzflag-stats thing was using php just to display data (because almost all webservers got php support, and its pretty easy to throw something together that works). backend was perl - that dealth with connections, calculations etc |
| 18:43.09 | JeffM2501 | I'm looking at just making C app that does it all |
| 18:43.15 | JeffM2501 | runs as a deamon |
| 18:43.52 | JeffM2501 | then I can just have the plugins connect via TCP to the localhost and comunicate both ways |
| 18:44.36 | JeffM2501 | and the C app builds the configs, starts/stops servers. sends notification e-mails, logs, does bans, etc... |
| 18:45.21 | JeffM2501 | I can also have it generate the management pages prety easaly |
| 18:45.44 | [dmp] | .. and that would be webpages? |
| 18:45.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:45.52 | JeffM2501 | it can serve them too |
| 18:46.08 | JeffM2501 | super lightweight http server ;) |
| 18:46.12 | [dmp] | :) |
| 18:47.54 | JeffM2501 | basicly I want to make it simple for others to start a server with a subset of options |
| 18:48.24 | JeffM2501 | and have this app fill out all the important non changeable things ( port, public addr, etc.. ) |
| 18:48.44 | JeffM2501 | 1) so I can give out servers to people very easly |
| 18:49.01 | JeffM2501 | and 2) to see if it's viable to rent servers for very cheap prices |
| 18:49.45 | [dmp] | i got a "idea"-file, with something similar. But thats with a gui interface, kinda like bzfsgui. (I like to try to get some experience with gui's - which is my main reason.) .. Im just affraid that it might be too easy to create servers and will give me too much support work :) |
| 18:50.07 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:50.26 | JeffM2501 | well I'm looking at geting my own dedicated machine, and offseting the cost could be nice |
| 18:50.37 | JeffM2501 | I think there could be a market for super cheap shared hosting |
| 18:50.48 | JeffM2501 | no shell acceess or antyhing, etc.. |
| 18:50.59 | JeffM2501 | but a page where you upload map, set options etc.. |
| 18:51.26 | JeffM2501 | the pricing I worked up last night would make a 10 player 3 shot server only cost $5 a month |
| 18:51.42 | JeffM2501 | and I think that's reasonable for many people |
| 18:51.45 | spldart | :~o |
| 18:52.00 | JeffM2501 | <- get money |
| 18:52.04 | [dmp] | :) |
| 18:52.36 | blast007 | I had been thinking about doing something like that as well, but with PHP |
| 18:52.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah a number of people have |
| 18:53.02 | JeffM2501 | I think it's viable, but it has to be priced very rasonably |
| 18:53.13 | JeffM2501 | and you know php, I don't ;) |
| 18:53.36 | blast007 | still didn't mean it was gonna work as PHP without some "fun" stuff ;) |
| 18:53.47 | scott | except there are a sh*tload of bzflag servers at this point and no players :( |
| 18:53.55 | JeffM2501 | yeah I wasn't able to figure out a clean way to get php to talk to bzfs |
| 18:54.00 | JeffM2501 | bzfs to php is easy |
| 18:54.07 | JeffM2501 | scott, that isn't going to change |
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| 22:12.24 | pacman87 | i'm having trouble getting the fairCTF plugin to load |
| 22:13.09 | Winny | uhg.. after I updated my GFX drivers BZFlag drops its FPS to like 5 for a second every couple of min |
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| 22:15.09 | Winny | oh.. nvm, for some reason it was doing 2x Aniso for some reason |
| 22:26.45 | SportChick | JeffM2501: if you get spambots again, pls say something in #freenode - I wasn't on |
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| 22:41.19 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, I did |
| 22:43.34 | Winny | we got spambots and I missed it? |
| 22:43.57 | JeffM2501 | no, I did |
| 22:44.02 | Winny | oh |
| 22:44.13 | pacman87 | is there a central location to download server plugins? |
| 22:44.19 | JeffM2501 | the source code |
| 22:44.29 | JeffM2501 | what OS are you on? |
| 22:44.39 | pacman87 | WinXP at the moment |
| 22:44.44 | pacman87 | i dual boot slackware |
| 22:44.47 | JeffM2501 | then the binary shiped with a bunch |
| 22:44.49 | JeffM2501 | for windows |
| 22:44.55 | JeffM2501 | for nix, you build them with the source |
| 22:45.02 | JeffM2501 | so get the tarball and compile it up |
| 22:45.17 | JeffM2501 | the default makefile will build all the plug-ins with the server |
| 22:45.28 | pacman87 | ok |
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| 22:53.10 | A_Heart_Attack | !seen theme97 |
| 22:53.17 | A_Heart_Attack | ~seen theme97 |
| 22:53.21 | ibot | theme97 <n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97> was last seen on IRC in channel ##essy, 87d 19h 33m 11s ago, saying: 'awilcox: To my cell phone.'. |
| 22:53.34 | A_Heart_Attack | oh, wow |
| 22:53.46 | Winny | he's been on #bzstocks since then. |
| 22:53.53 | A_Heart_Attack | k |
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| 23:22.16 | awilcox | A_Heart_Attack: ! hello :) |
| 23:22.35 | A_Heart_Attack | hey awilcox! |
| 23:22.48 | awilcox | how goes? |
| 23:26.53 | A_Heart_Attack | not bad |
| 23:27.04 | A_Heart_Attack | and you? |
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| 23:44.25 | awilcox | A_Heart_Attack: doing fine. |