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| 00:34.53 | Epyon | If I have very small classes, or even abstract ones is it still a good idea to split each to a separate file? |
| 00:36.40 | DTRemenak | yes, unless they're so logically linked that you can say "it would be silly to split these up" |
| 00:37.11 | Epyon | Generator, GridGenerator, CompositeGenerator, Zone, etc... |
| 00:37.27 | DTRemenak | yeah, files are cheap |
| 00:37.59 | Epyon | Yet, they might grow bigger as the project unfolds, so I guess I'll separate them already. |
| 00:38.13 | DTRemenak | and isn't it like 3am there!? :) |
| 00:38.19 | Epyon | For the last to days I'm doing almost exclusively refactoring :/ |
| 00:39.27 | Epyon | Yes, but I had a family meeting I had to attend today before that :( |
| 00:40.35 | Epyon | So I'm working through the night/ |
| 00:41.04 | Epyon | I'd never imagined the absurd amount of unexpected chores... |
| 00:43.53 | DTRemenak | if you get tired, get some sleep. people generally work better well rested, and it's better for your health. you don't have to check in perfection, you know (that's what august is for ;) )... |
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| 00:44.51 | Epyon | I'm not aiming for perfection -- I know it's far for perfection -- I'm aiming at acceptance now :/ |
| 00:46.07 | Epyon | Also, paradoxically I'm a nightchild -- I work best between 11pm and 3-4am. |
| 00:47.06 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 00:47.28 | DTRemenak | ok...whatever works for you :) |
| 00:48.01 | Epyon | Uh, just read your PM. |
| 00:48.14 | Epyon | It's the word "bunch" I'm worrying about -_- |
| 00:48.38 | DTRemenak | if your screenshot is real, I doubt you have anything to worry about ;) |
| 00:49.35 | Epyon | DTRemenak, if I would be pressed, I'd do that effect in < 100 LOC, without any "Perl-like" tricks. |
| 00:50.30 | Epyon | It's a simple trick of putting a 2D grid over a 3d continuous world and then applying some simple 2d "maze" generation |
| 00:51.10 | DTRemenak | and yet it's still far better (looking, at least) than our current random generator ;) |
| 00:51.13 | Epyon | Only reconstructing the meshes instead of boxes (for further enhancement) and aligning the road textures was a bit tricky. |
| 00:51.44 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I played a trick on you :P -- it's the textures I clobbered up in PS that make it look good :P |
| 00:51.56 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 00:52.23 | TheFinalFarewell | when running configure, the parameter to enable plugins on bzfs is --enable-shared , right? |
| 00:52.37 | Epyon | BTW, you think I should submit the .psd files along the .png's? |
| 00:53.06 | DTRemenak | imho, no, just the png's. someone else might have something to say about that though. |
| 00:53.23 | Epyon | Good :P |
| 00:53.25 | TheFinalFarewell | hello? |
| 00:53.57 | TheFinalFarewell | ~seen me |
| 00:54.10 | ibot | me <i=me@pool-72-79-205-95.spfdma.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 19d 11h 56m 24s ago, saying: 'hey all'. |
| 00:54.23 | Epyon | TheFinalFarewell, I'd help you, but I have no idea :( |
| 00:54.35 | TheFinalFarewell | anyone here that does? |
| 00:54.43 | DTRemenak | I don't remember...try ./configure --help |
| 00:55.57 | Epyon | DTRemenak, you'll be here still for 1-2h? |
| 00:56.07 | DTRemenak | yup, and I'll be back tomorrow morning |
| 00:56.09 | TheFinalFarewell | ok, it is --enable-shared |
| 00:56.24 | DTRemenak | still early evening here where I'm at |
| 00:56.27 | Epyon | You'll help me do the initial submit then... |
| 00:56.32 | DTRemenak | cool :) |
| 00:56.42 | Epyon | My SVN skills are purely academic -_- |
| 00:56.49 | DTRemenak | svn is really easy to pick up |
| 00:57.08 | DTRemenak | and it's nearly impossible to screw up the repository |
| 00:57.47 | Epyon | Never say never -- give it to my girlfriend, and it'll be dead and unrecoverable in a few minutes. |
| 00:58.02 | DTRemenak | you can screw up your local copy if you use rm and mv instead of svn rm and svn mv though, so once it's commited, be attentive to that when moving files around |
| 00:58.03 | Epyon | Cool, I've got svn installed. |
| 00:59.02 | Epyon | Good that I have no habbit of using rm/mv |
| 00:59.13 | DTRemenak | same deal...if you're using tortoise, right-drag and do "SVN Move versioned files here" instead of "Move files" |
| 00:59.29 | Epyon | no tortoise please :P |
| 00:59.43 | Epyon | I installed it once, and I'llnever do that again. |
| 00:59.48 | DTRemenak | well whatever you're using then :) |
| 00:59.57 | DTRemenak | move files with your subversion client, not with explorer |
| 01:00.14 | Epyon | As a die-hard DOS fan till Win 2000 came out, I quite prefer the commandline. |
| 01:01.05 | Epyon | Anyway, I'll have specific questions later. |
| 01:01.29 | DTRemenak | fine, then "svn rm" instead of "del" :P |
| 01:03.07 | DTRemenak | ok, feel free to ping me whenever |
| 01:05.26 | TheFinalFarewell | ok, time for the test...will my modified server compile? |
| 01:05.55 | DTRemenak | my guess is no...at least, none of my modifications ever compile first time around ;) |
| 01:06.24 | TheFinalFarewell | well...it hasnt errored yet, so far so good |
| 01:07.54 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 01:10.58 | TheFinalFarewell | ...still no errors |
| 01:11.02 | TheFinalFarewell | :) |
| 01:15.00 | TheFinalFarewell | crap... |
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| 01:20.59 | DTRemenak | brlcad: width = getStringWidth(faceID, size, &tmpText[startSend]); is not equivalent to width = pFont->getStrLength(scale, &tmpText[startSend], len);. for strings with more than one ansi code, len is significantly less than tmpText[startSend] |
| 01:21.14 | DTRemenak | err, strlen() around the last word there |
| 01:23.22 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A51367.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:23.36 | DTRemenak | i.e. if text is "\esc[33m\esc[5m[SERVER->]\esc[0;1m\esc[36mCheating or bad language will result in a ban.", tmpText[startSend] will be "[SERVER->]\esc[0;1m\esc[36mCheating or bad language will result in a ban.", but len witll be 10 |
| 01:24.12 | DTRemenak | because we only really want to render the [SERVER->] part of it with the current settings |
| 01:25.26 | DTRemenak | so the way it stands, the ftgl font manager will screw up as soon as there's more than one embedded ansi code |
| 01:25.40 | DTRemenak | that sound like what you're seeing? |
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| 01:35.16 | jude- | hello all |
| 01:35.29 | GrandHustla | hahaha |
| 01:38.14 | DTRemenak | howdy jude- |
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| 01:39.13 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14532 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (32 files in 13 dirs): |
| 01:39.13 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Big changes here (sorry brlcad!). The bz2object class, which is the base |
| 01:39.13 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: class for all things renderable, is now a subclass of Renderable so it can |
| 01:39.13 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: be added to an OSG scene (instead of like before, where bz2object had |
| 01:39.13 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: methods for turning itself into a Renderable and the View kept a mirror of |
| 01:39.16 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: the Model's bz2objects as Renderables). This should fix the weird |
| 01:39.18 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: crashing. |
| 01:39.24 | DTRemenak | woohoo |
| 01:39.31 | Winny | ~lart jude- for the massive commit |
| 01:39.31 | ibot | farts in jude-'s general direction for the massive commit |
| 01:39.34 | Winny | ;) |
| 01:39.38 | jude- | lol |
| 01:40.06 | jude- | special thanks to JeffM for the advice :) |
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| 01:42.58 | jude- | O.o |
| 01:43.05 | jude- | hang on a sec... |
| 01:44.21 | Epyon | is there a possibility or planned for the future for a non-square map? |
| 01:45.04 | jude- | why bother? You can make a wall of arbitrary shape with a mesh object |
| 01:45.08 | DTRemenak | Epyon: you can set the walls to 0 height and put your own walls in to achieve the illusion of a non-square map. it's always bounded by a square though. |
| 01:45.36 | DTRemenak | and that is not planned to change |
| 01:46.04 | GrandHustla | bye everyone:) |
| 01:47.24 | L4m3r | DTRemenak: ew ew ew. No, you don't set the wall height to zero. You use noWalls. :P |
| 01:47.38 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: fine, whatever :P |
| 01:47.45 | jude- | fixed...committing |
| 01:47.49 | L4m3r | setting wall height to zero leaves the lines on radar :P |
| 01:47.56 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 01:48.04 | DTRemenak | wouldn't want those silly lines |
| 01:48.06 | L4m3r | you just have to make sure you add a lot of padding around the map |
| 01:48.28 | L4m3r | 'cuz noWalls will allow players to drive right out of the arena and get kicked |
| 01:48.38 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14533 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixed some build errors that were overlooked. |
| 01:48.45 | DTRemenak | they deserve it :P |
| 01:48.51 | DTRemenak | thx jude :) |
| 01:48.56 | jude- | np :) |
| 01:49.07 | L4m3r | ...you gotta make sure they won't either lag through your mesh walls, or fly out of bounds after dying. |
| 01:49.27 | jude- | THICK walls :) |
| 01:49.42 | L4m3r | real fun when someone's got agility and gets shot going full speed towards the wall, and goes flying out of bounds in the death-arc |
| 01:49.56 | jude- | ...or a really big moat :) |
| 01:50.00 | DTRemenak | dead players should not get kicked for going out of bounds |
| 01:50.08 | L4m3r | of course not |
| 01:50.10 | L4m3r | but they do ;) |
| 01:50.20 | L4m3r | position still gets updated |
| 01:50.42 | L4m3r | and apparently, instead of fixing the check, someone decided just to make the death-arc stop at the wall |
| 01:50.52 | blast007 | heh.. |
| 01:51.32 | L4m3r | I try to keep an invisible, deadly, 200 bzmeter padding around all walls for such maps |
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| 01:51.32 | bryjen | "death-arc" sounds like a weapon |
| 01:51.39 | bryjen | or a heavy metal band |
| 01:51.39 | L4m3r | heh |
| 01:51.52 | L4m3r | it's like a death spiral, but it's an arc :P |
| 01:51.53 | jude- | ...point is, it's possible to have arbitrarily-shaped walls with the current build :) |
| 01:52.04 | L4m3r | heh |
| 01:52.07 | L4m3r | really? neat |
| 01:52.49 | L4m3r | but I had to use false walls |
| 01:53.04 | blast007 | L4m3r: that's what jude- means |
| 01:53.11 | L4m3r | oh |
| 01:53.27 | L4m3r | poo, I thought he meant someone had implemented REAL arbitrary walls. :P |
| 01:53.38 | jude- | not that I know of :/ |
| 01:53.56 | L4m3r | oh, and one time, for planet mofo's april fools prank... hahaha |
| 01:54.19 | L4m3r | I took the map, and duplicated it. I scaled one to 1.5x and the other to 2/3 scale |
| 01:54.41 | L4m3r | positioned each in opposite corners of a very large map and added fake walls |
| 01:55.00 | L4m3r | and linked the two with teleporters. It was great fun having players ping the admin channel |
| 01:55.13 | L4m3r | "I think something is wrong with this server..." |
| 01:55.13 | blast007 | hehe |
| 01:55.46 | L4m3r | it was like the "Tiny Huge Land" in Super Mario 64 :D |
| 01:56.55 | jude- | DTRemenak: any crashes (assuming you got it to build and tried it)? |
| 01:57.06 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14534 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlayerStateVerify.cxx: dead or exploding players should not get kicked for going out of bounds during death arcs |
| 01:57.29 | jude- | yay :) |
| 01:57.38 | jude- | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 01:57.50 | L4m3r | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 01:58.31 | DTRemenak | jude-: looks good. z-ordering on your axis markers is a bit funky though |
| 01:58.39 | jude- | it's the same in Blender :) |
| 01:58.47 | Epyon | GridInfo must die. |
| 01:58.51 | L4m3r | I actually think I'm the only player who knows how to make fake map shells really really well ;) |
| 01:59.00 | DTRemenak | jude-: the cones get rendered in front of the cylinders? |
| 01:59.10 | jude- | yup |
| 01:59.16 | jude- | I can fix that... |
| 01:59.20 | DTRemenak | that's kinda bogus |
| 01:59.33 | jude- | ...but the z-axis will always be occluded by the X and Y axes |
| 01:59.35 | jude- | like in Blender |
| 01:59.44 | jude- | it's just the nature of disabling GL_DEPTH_TEST |
| 02:00.11 | L4m3r | I tried to explain to Louman once all the wall tricks, like making the radar look right, when he did "The Hive". I don't think he understood me... but then it's rather weird from a modelling standpoint |
| 02:01.13 | DTRemenak | jude-: I s'pose it's ok :) |
| 02:01.23 | DTRemenak | the only good solutions I can think of are more trouble than they're worth |
| 02:01.48 | jude- | same here |
| 02:02.38 | DTRemenak | i.e. render it onto a texture and draw the texture on the viewer plane/hud/whatever |
| 02:03.13 | jude- | ...or z-sort the geometric components depending on camera orientation |
| 02:03.18 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 02:05.25 | jude- | ...actually, you're method wouldn't be too bad |
| 02:06.53 | DTRemenak | yeah, definitely not a top-priority thing :) |
| 02:15.00 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14535 10/trunk/bzworkbench/MSVC/VC8/BZWorkbench.vcproj: get the debug libs right |
| 02:15.48 | jude- | heh. thanks :) |
| 02:19.17 | Epyon | OMG. |
| 02:19.27 | Epyon | Now that was wierd. |
| 02:19.45 | jude- | what was? |
| 02:19.48 | Epyon | I made a massive refactoring, it finally compiled, and it... worked o.O |
| 02:19.53 | jude- | heh |
| 02:19.57 | jude- | I get those once in a while |
| 02:20.03 | TheFinalFarewell | heh, i broke bzfs |
| 02:20.13 | Epyon | Maan, it's late, seems as it's getting me now o.O |
| 02:20.16 | jude- | run it through Valgrind or similar, if you want :) |
| 02:20.59 | Epyon | If I do that, DTRemenak won't see the code for another week, and I won't get my midterm -_- |
| 02:21.23 | jude- | heh |
| 02:21.26 | jude- | commit then :) |
| 02:21.30 | Epyon | Funny, but I still wonder why it worked :/ |
| 02:21.40 | TheFinalFarewell | i took the liberty of changing the "failed attempt to become an admin with password" message to "wrong password, quit trying to hack my server!!!" |
| 02:21.43 | Epyon | I need a cigarette. |
| 02:21.54 | jude- | jeez, beer AND cigarrettes? |
| 02:22.29 | jude- | all I need is a shot of caffeine :) |
| 02:22.45 | TheFinalFarewell | Epyon: all you need now is bipolar disorder, and you can have a party with yourself |
| 02:22.47 | Epyon | And galz, don't forget the galz. I maintain a healthy student's life :P |
| 02:23.00 | jude- | ~wiki galz |
| 02:23.14 | TheFinalFarewell | gals == chicks |
| 02:23.43 | TheFinalFarewell | delete jude-; |
| 02:23.51 | TheFinalFarewell | :) |
| 02:23.55 | jude- | I think you mean "~lart jude-" :) |
| 02:23.57 | Epyon | parse error. |
| 02:24.06 | TheFinalFarewell | well, if you say so |
| 02:24.06 | Epyon | Did you mean delete jude--; ? |
| 02:24.13 | TheFinalFarewell | ~lart jude- |
| 02:24.13 | ibot | pries jude-'s back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to jude- |
| 02:24.59 | TheFinalFarewell | cmos error: jude- is unable to boot :p |
| 02:25.47 | TheFinalFarewell | nah, probably just gives u lilo |
| 02:25.55 | jude- | eww |
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| 02:26.22 | TheFinalFarewell | ive got grub on my box |
| 02:26.26 | jude- | same here |
| 02:26.35 | blast007 | I've got the windows boot loader |
| 02:26.36 | jude- | I have ARCS + ARCLoad on my SGI machine, however :) |
| 02:27.00 | TheFinalFarewell | i sent windows to #hell about a week ago |
| 02:27.13 | Epyon | Lucky you :( |
| 02:27.23 | TheFinalFarewell | and used it's space for (k)ubuntu |
| 02:27.45 | jude- | Epyon: you can't do the same? |
| 02:28.29 | Epyon | Nope, one of my faved, loved and in the next semester taught program is Windoze-only. |
| 02:28.35 | TheFinalFarewell | the fdisk is strong with this one |
| 02:28.45 | Epyon | And no reasonable counterpart exists on linux. |
| 02:28.48 | jude- | not even dual-booting or using an external hd? |
| 02:28.50 | TheFinalFarewell | wine |
| 02:28.57 | jude- | VMWare |
| 02:29.09 | Epyon | wine/VMware-incompatible :P |
| 02:29.24 | jude- | VMware-incompatible?? |
| 02:29.30 | Epyon | Ok, maybe VMWare compatible, but that would REALLY hurt performance. |
| 02:29.42 | jude- | QEMU? |
| 02:29.48 | Epyon | Wont work. |
| 02:29.58 | jude- | just what program is this? |
| 02:30.00 | blast007 | .... |
| 02:30.06 | Epyon | 3ds MAX 9 :/ |
| 02:30.09 | blast007 | how about just he just continues to use Windows? |
| 02:30.23 | TheFinalFarewell | dual boot? |
| 02:30.27 | Epyon | blast007, it's a pain -_- |
| 02:30.39 | jude- | that works in WINE, IIRC |
| 02:30.45 | DTRemenak | it does not |
| 02:30.48 | Epyon | jude-, in your dreams :P |
| 02:30.57 | DTRemenak | it's affected by the gl overlay bug |
| 02:31.01 | DTRemenak | like bzedit is |
| 02:31.03 | jude- | ahh |
| 02:31.04 | Epyon | It's one of those programs that will be the last one to work on WINE -_- |
| 02:31.06 | DTRemenak | and many other cad-style programs |
| 02:31.16 | jude- | that sucks |
| 02:31.29 | DTRemenak | not necessarily, Thunderbird and Julliard were throwing around some possible solutions with the X guys |
| 02:31.41 | DTRemenak | bout a week ago |
| 02:31.45 | DTRemenak | so we shall see |
| 02:31.52 | TheFinalFarewell | like what? destroy microsoft |
| 02:31.56 | TheFinalFarewell | ? |
| 02:32.13 | Epyon | Force Autodesk to create a 3ds max version for linux? :P |
| 02:32.19 | blast007 | TheFinalFarewell: how would that fix a bug in a linux program? |
| 02:32.21 | TheFinalFarewell | make Gates come out of retirement? |
| 02:34.47 | Epyon | DTRemenak, about code commenting, any particular reason why you don't like // comments? |
| 02:34.53 | DTRemenak | I don't? |
| 02:34.53 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.58 | DTRemenak | news to me |
| 02:35.06 | Epyon | Okay, so it was JeffM? |
| 02:35.27 | Epyon | I mean // for doxygen class header comments. |
| 02:35.32 | DTRemenak | noone I know has any objection to // comments. if you're doxygenating we prefer /** to /// though |
| 02:35.38 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 02:35.52 | jude- | here he is, Epyon. you can ask him |
| 02:36.04 | DTRemenak | just 'cause doxygen comments should typically be more than one line |
| 02:36.50 | TheFinalFarewell | Macrosoft: we meet again |
| 02:37.23 | Macrosoft | TheFinalFarewell: yes, but this time it is I who will destroy you |
| 02:37.36 | blast007 | Macrosoft: bored? |
| 02:37.36 | JeffM | yay, time for upgrade fun :) |
| 02:37.52 | Macrosoft | blast007: huh? |
| 02:38.09 | blast007 | Macrosoft: talking to yourself |
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| 02:38.41 | Macrosoft | blast007: not much else to do |
| 02:38.41 | TheFinalFarewell | blast007: not much else to do |
| 02:38.54 | JeffM | did ya need me Epyon? or was that for somone else? |
| 02:39.00 | spldart | o_0 |
| 02:39.15 | Epyon | Duh, I'll leave commenting for later |
| 02:40.12 | Macrosoft | \die |
| 02:42.03 | Macrosoft | i guess i better try to fix bzfs |
| 02:47.25 | Macrosoft | this should still compile right? : sendMessage(ServerPlayer, t, "You are now an administrator!. Don't you feel special."); |
| 02:48.07 | Macrosoft | is there a fixed size for that type of message? |
| 02:48.16 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:48.36 | blast007 | I think it's 128 characters |
| 02:49.16 | Macrosoft | but it should work as long as it stays under that length? |
| 02:49.27 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:49.30 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 02:49.33 | blast007 | or maybe 127, but whatever |
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| 03:06.20 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r14536 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (18 files): Initial version import. |
| 03:06.31 | DTRemenak | woot |
| 03:06.42 | DTRemenak | ~Epyon++ |
| 03:08.33 | Epyon | :P |
| 03:08.48 | Epyon | wasn't that scary :P |
| 03:09.07 | JeffM | nope |
| 03:09.09 | JeffM | do it again |
| 03:10.13 | DTRemenak | oh, he will (he better!) :P |
| 03:12.43 | brlcad | DTRemenak: mebbie.. looking, thanks! :) |
| 03:13.45 | spldart | Meh.. Moments of transition :( |
| 03:18.05 | Macrosoft | :) guy getting rejected by girl: sendMessage(ServerPlayer, t, "You do not have permission to run the /date command"); |
| 03:18.20 | Epyon | Duh, it's 5:18 here... time for a beer. |
| 03:19.07 | Macrosoft | is this line valid? sendMessage(AdminPlayers, playerData->player.getCallSign()); |
| 03:20.16 | Macrosoft | its supposed to send the callsign of player that uses /say thru admin channel, i think |
| 03:20.40 | Macrosoft | does it look like it would work? |
| 03:21.33 | brlcad | heh, and I was just about to chastize |
| 03:21.47 | brlcad | nice work Epyon .. keep it up :) |
| 03:22.41 | Macrosoft | blast007: is this legal: sendMessage(AdminPlayers, playerData->player.getCallSign()); |
| 03:22.52 | brlcad | and lucky it took me more than ten minutes to read the back log |
| 03:23.05 | blast007 | Macrosoft: try it |
| 03:23.15 | brlcad | because he hadn't when I started |
| 03:24.02 | brlcad | hopefully now it'll be less waterfall and more iterative |
| 03:24.44 | DTRemenak | hope that was an ok place to have him put it. at the moment it's standalone, so I figured a separate module made the most sense. it can be moved later. |
| 03:24.55 | brlcad | yeah, i figured |
| 03:25.23 | Macrosoft | getting weird error: LinuxDisplay.h:45: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'XF86VidModeModeInfo' with no type |
| 03:25.35 | brlcad | if it generates useful maps, I'm still rather keen to it being either a plugin or integrated with bzfs directly |
| 03:25.36 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: install SDL and reconfigure |
| 03:25.40 | Macrosoft | i havent done anything to that file |
| 03:26.04 | DTRemenak | our X stuff requires some X extensions that are no longer default in XOrg on some distros |
| 03:26.17 | DTRemenak | better to just use SDL, you get more features anyway |
| 03:26.35 | Epyon | brlcad, you forced me xP |
| 03:26.54 | brlcad | Epyon: you still took three days |
| 03:27.12 | DTRemenak | tsk tsk, reading brlcad's mind again? :) |
| 03:27.22 | Epyon | brlcad, so it doesn't look as bad as it realy was :/ |
| 03:27.28 | Macrosoft | is this it? libsdl1.2-dev |
| 03:27.30 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: yes |
| 03:27.54 | brlcad | Epyon: you mean.. appearances can be deceiving (code-wise)? .. I think you're the only one that had the misconception :) |
| 03:28.34 | brlcad | it still would have been good to see how the code has evolved to the state that it's already at now |
| 03:28.34 | Epyon | Anyway, to all : I didn't have time. I officaly promise that results/code will be better at least tenfold. |
| 03:28.39 | DTRemenak | code in svn doesn't necessariy have to be clean or "unbad" (thankfully) |
| 03:29.07 | DTRemenak | will need to be by the end of august though ;) |
| 03:29.11 | Macrosoft | getting this: LinuxDisplay.h:24:38: error: X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h: No such file or directory |
| 03:29.13 | Epyon | And forgive me for my bad C++. I didn't have time for properly recall my C++ knowledge |
| 03:29.24 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: you reconfigured with SDL? |
| 03:29.43 | Macrosoft | oh, i have to run configure again? |
| 03:29.47 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 03:29.50 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 03:29.53 | DTRemenak | as I said the first time |
| 03:29.59 | brlcad | Epyon: no need to apologize, seriously :) |
| 03:30.07 | DTRemenak | and make sure it says "With SDL" or something at the end |
| 03:30.08 | brlcad | it's just good to see the commits :) |
| 03:30.27 | Epyon | I actually might work on it slowly further after august -- the feeling of seeing the textured buildings smiling to me for the first time was orgasmic -- and it's a nice ocassion to keep up my C++ skills. |
| 03:30.46 | DTRemenak | you're certainly welcome and encouraged to do so |
| 03:31.41 | DTRemenak | the end of soc does not need to mean the end of the participations of "the artists formerly from soc" (same goes for the rest of y'all) |
| 03:31.58 | Macrosoft | this good enough: no curses! |
| 03:31.58 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:31.58 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:31.58 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:32.04 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: yup |
| 03:32.14 | brlcad | yeah, soc is just a kickstart |
| 03:32.19 | brlcad | good times, more code |
| 03:32.26 | DTRemenak | woot |
| 03:33.55 | Epyon | brlcad, actually BZF gives a nice framework for experimentation. |
| 03:34.54 | DTRemenak | Epyon: assuming you do complete it all and get a good final review, please please tell the google people exactly what you just said. we'd very much like to be invited back for future soc's :) |
| 03:35.19 | Epyon | Sure xP |
| 03:35.53 | DTRemenak | part of our goal has been presenting ourselves as a bit of a research framework |
| 03:35.58 | Epyon | I wouldn't mind working again for BZF, IF you will like the effects of my final commit. |
| 03:36.13 | Epyon | I will still be egible as a PhD student afaik. |
| 03:36.51 | Macrosoft | building without errors so far. this may take a while, might as well spend some time on bash |
| 03:37.33 | L4m3r | Epyon: you could just become a regular dev... |
| 03:37.53 | L4m3r | less lucrative, but arguably more fun :P |
| 03:38.01 | brlcad | or both :) |
| 03:38.22 | DTRemenak | hm, wonder if that's a charset problem. Epyon: looks like some of your ";" got converted to "'" (bzwgen.cxx in particular) |
| 03:39.16 | Epyon | Can't be...! |
| 03:39.22 | DTRemenak | fixed that and it works fine |
| 03:39.26 | Epyon | I have EN windows installed... |
| 03:39.35 | DTRemenak | hm...something else maybe then |
| 03:39.50 | Macrosoft | windows? theres the problem right there :p |
| 03:40.04 | Epyon | Maybe a VS2005EE issue? |
| 03:40.19 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14537 10/trunk/bzwgen/bzwgen.cxx: end of statement is ; not ' |
| 03:40.20 | Epyon | DTRemenak, successfuly generated and run? |
| 03:40.22 | DTRemenak | dunno |
| 03:40.26 | DTRemenak | yup, worked fine after I fixed those |
| 03:41.37 | Epyon | *phew* |
| 03:41.38 | DTRemenak | svn update to grab the changes; svn diff -r14537 -r14536 to see the changes as a diff |
| 03:42.16 | Epyon | Hmm, I wonder if I can force VS to work from that dir instead of the default one. |
| 03:42.28 | DTRemenak | yeah, just double-click the sln file |
| 03:42.31 | DTRemenak | and it'll load it from there |
| 03:42.33 | Epyon | updated |
| 03:42.51 | DTRemenak | then you don't even really need your old copy |
| 03:43.06 | DTRemenak | (probably want to make sure everything's ok before you throw it out though) |
| 03:43.24 | Epyon | Cool, works :) |
| 03:43.33 | Epyon | Saves me copying and mistakes xP |
| 03:43.38 | brlcad | DTRemenak: so question regarding the font "length" .. when I looked at the font manager originally, it looked like it was computing the pixel width of the font string |
| 03:43.53 | DTRemenak | it is, iirc |
| 03:44.05 | brlcad | okay |
| 03:44.21 | DTRemenak | your strings are just not being trimmed |
| 03:44.29 | brlcad | so then I just need to account for the codes, so that they're not also counted |
| 03:44.40 | DTRemenak | no, you need to not pass the whole string |
| 03:44.41 | *** join/#bzflag R3laX (n=k3y@ool-18ba89e7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:44.48 | DTRemenak | only between startSend and endSend |
| 03:44.53 | DTRemenak | i.e. startSend + len |
| 03:45.02 | Epyon | DTRemenak, on svn co, it will send only the files managed, right? -_- |
| 03:45.05 | DTRemenak | len is the character count between startSend and endSend |
| 03:45.13 | DTRemenak | which is much much smaller than the actual string length |
| 03:45.23 | DTRemenak | Epyon: yes |
| 03:45.27 | Epyon | kk |
| 03:45.31 | DTRemenak | if you want to add a new file, you must use svn add before commit |
| 03:45.40 | DTRemenak | and iirc co is checkout |
| 03:45.57 | DTRemenak | could be wrong though |
| 03:46.08 | Epyon | yep xP |
| 03:46.14 | Epyon | my fault xP |
| 03:46.33 | Epyon | svn ci is check in |
| 03:49.16 | Macrosoft | crap... invalid conversion from "const char*" to "PlayerId" |
| 03:53.01 | Macrosoft | what is TextUtils::format? |
| 03:53.27 | brlcad | it's a funtion |
| 03:53.38 | Macrosoft | what does it return? |
| 03:54.04 | brlcad | a std::string |
| 03:55.07 | brlcad | google std::string, look for c_str, then maybe man atoi if you're doing what I think you're doing |
| 03:55.12 | Macrosoft | it was giving me an error on type casting so i had to change comment it out and leave the string argument there.it worked |
| 03:57.08 | blast007 | Macrosoft: are you just guessing what to pass to the function? :) |
| 03:57.26 | brlcad | if you force a pointer to a playerid, very bad things can happen |
| 03:57.48 | blast007 | he's passing a callsign to a playerID slot |
| 03:57.50 | Macrosoft | the argument was already there, i just commented the function call |
| 03:58.03 | blast007 | 21:19:14 < Macrosoft> blast007: is this legal: sendMessage(AdminPlayers, playerData->player.getCallSign()); |
| 03:58.08 | blast007 | that, right? |
| 03:58.17 | Macrosoft | no, i removed that line |
| 03:58.25 | blast007 | okay, which line is failing? |
| 03:58.38 | Macrosoft | none right now |
| 03:58.49 | blast007 | which line WAS failing |
| 03:59.32 | Macrosoft | src/bzfs/commands.cxx:2648 |
| 03:59.43 | blast007 | that's not helpful |
| 03:59.56 | Macrosoft | i changed it to: sendMessage(ServerPlayer, AllPlayers, |
| 03:59.56 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:00.21 | Macrosoft | block comments on the function call |
| 04:00.42 | Macrosoft | its finished building, no errors |
| 04:01.05 | Macrosoft | now lets see if it crashes horribly when i try to run it |
| 04:01.21 | Macrosoft | this should be "fun" |
| 04:02.48 | *** join/#bzflag GrandHustla (i=4a45e028@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-b7d3471b990b4e33) |
| 04:07.52 | Macrosoft | by the way, how can i convert a playerid to a string |
| 04:10.52 | brlcad | Macrosoft: ehm, the same function you've been commenting out |
| 04:12.09 | L4m3r | TextUtils::format works like sprintf, right? |
| 04:14.43 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@cm-24-121-11-34.flagstaff.az.npgco.com) |
| 04:15.29 | DTRemenak | Epyon: your c++ is fine. one thing I'd recommend design-wise is keeping the bzflag objects in their own c++ objects (same way bzflag and bzwb do)...for one thing, when you have more types of generators outputting, say, meshboxes, you'll have the output code all in one place if it needs to be changed |
| 04:15.56 | DTRemenak | looks like you already did with Material |
| 04:21.18 | Macrosoft | yes! it works |
| 04:21.36 | Macrosoft | not that TextUtils::Format thing |
| 04:22.04 | Macrosoft | so much work for such a small change |
| 04:24.35 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:27.21 | L4m3r | Macrosoft: I suggest reading up on sprintf- then that format function will make a lot more sense to you |
| 04:27.36 | L4m3r | it's VERY useful in everyday coding |
| 04:27.59 | Macrosoft | i just used: message += |
| 04:28.33 | Macrosoft | i made /say messages anonymous to everyone but admins |
| 04:28.48 | Epyon | DTRemenak, yeah, I want to do Mesh, and others as separate objects further into the future |
| 04:29.04 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 04:29.09 | Epyon | Time prevented me in doing that now :/ |
| 04:29.19 | DTRemenak | yup, I understand |
| 04:29.40 | *** part/#bzflag R3laX (n=k3y@ool-18ba89e7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:30.43 | *** join/#bzflag R3laX (n=k3y@ool-18ba89e7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:30.48 | *** join/#bzflag jh` (i=jh@host-212-149-253-32.kpylaajakaista.net) |
| 04:31.06 | *** part/#bzflag jh` (i=jh@host-212-149-253-32.kpylaajakaista.net) |
| 04:39.53 | AAA_awright | ping R3laX |
| 04:40.12 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@cm-24-121-11-34.flagstaff.az.npgco.com) |
| 04:40.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03l4m3rthanyou * r14538 10/branches/gsoc_irc/bzflag/src/bzfs/ircControl.h: Add header for IRC control (impl. pending) |
| 04:41.02 | jude- | ~L4m3r++ |
| 04:41.31 | L4m3r | okay, now I can clean up my workspace :P |
| 04:42.07 | Epyon | ~L4m3r++ |
| 04:42.29 | L4m3r | just out of curiousity, do you guys use tortoiseSVN or the command line? |
| 04:42.47 | jude- | command-line |
| 04:42.59 | jude- | bash, specifically |
| 04:43.27 | DTRemenak | RapidSVN in windows, CLI in real operating systems |
| 04:43.46 | DTRemenak | not that I recommend Rapid. it's got some serious "issues" |
| 04:44.36 | Epyon | command-line too despite Windows :) |
| 04:47.52 | L4m3r | hm. |
| 04:48.19 | jude- | L4m3r: then svn via CLI would be perfect :) |
| 04:48.26 | L4m3r | yup |
| 04:48.42 | L4m3r | GUI-based svn apps almost seem silly to me, honestly |
| 04:48.50 | L4m3r | the CLI is so simple :p |
| 04:49.06 | jude- | quite |
| 04:54.43 | JeffM | DTRemenak, did they ever make socket 754 AMD 64 3000+s? |
| 04:55.01 | DTRemenak | yeah, I'm sure they did |
| 04:57.48 | JeffM | I think that's what Will has |
| 05:01.23 | JeffM | and yay only 2 more driver sets to go :) |
| 05:02.40 | JeffM | I'll remind Chris to bring his machine in monday, so we can swap his CPU, and then you'll have a dual core |
| 05:03.03 | DTRemenak | sweet :D |
| 05:03.27 | JeffM | and everyone can divy up the ram :) |
| 05:05.33 | brlcad | woo, L4m3r |
| 05:06.19 | Epyon | command-line is the tool of the programmer :) |
| 05:06.40 | Epyon | True, I'm not a Linux user, but I've got cygwin in my path xP |
| 05:07.05 | DTRemenak | mingw >> cygwin |
| 05:07.34 | Epyon | Reminds me of a quote of one of my friends "If hackers would ever use virtual reality it would show a bunch of text terminals floating around." |
| 05:08.13 | jude- | if hackers could use virtual reality, it'd show a lot more than that floating around :) |
| 05:08.35 | DTRemenak | the best VR concept I've seen is the psychohistorian cube projector from Foundation. projects code on all four walls and lets you drag it around and monitor it, all with your mind |
| 05:08.36 | Epyon | xP |
| 05:08.51 | jude- | DTRemenak: nice :) |
| 05:09.17 | DTRemenak | mm, and those of you who have not read the Foundation trilogy, should |
| 05:09.23 | JeffM | if it can read the mind, why does it need visual output? why not just write the display into your mind? |
| 05:09.33 | DTRemenak | so you can show other people |
| 05:09.43 | DTRemenak | collaborative development |
| 05:09.44 | JeffM | blast it into thier minds |
| 05:09.47 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 05:09.49 | JeffM | just link the minds |
| 05:09.55 | jude- | The best we have at my uni is this: http://qtvr.arizona.edu/work/cave.html |
| 05:10.08 | jude- | it's pretty sweet, but not mind-controlled |
| 05:10.25 | Macrosoft | :p error: mind not compataible, obsolete model |
| 05:10.46 | DTRemenak | jude-: you should totally run bz on it |
| 05:10.53 | DTRemenak | we support stereo output even |
| 05:11.05 | jude- | heh--they've already ported Doom and Quake :P |
| 05:11.37 | DTRemenak | what drives it? sgi boxen? |
| 05:11.52 | jude- | use to be... |
| 05:12.00 | DTRemenak | 'cause we run on those too |
| 05:12.01 | jude- | now it's a Linux cluster |
| 05:12.06 | DTRemenak | and we'd run on that |
| 05:12.18 | jude- | 4-node, IIRC |
| 05:12.21 | jude- | RHEL 5 |
| 05:12.28 | DTRemenak | eek, rhel |
| 05:12.41 | jude- | don't remind me xP |
| 05:12.44 | DTRemenak | no coincidence that it's phonetically identical to "Our Hell" |
| 05:12.54 | jude- | lol |
| 05:13.03 | Epyon | Okay, last beer, and I'm off to sleep. |
| 05:13.15 | jude- | some incarnation of Red Hat, at least |
| 05:13.17 | DTRemenak | gl with the hangover ;) |
| 05:13.57 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I am polish, I don't get a hangover in amounts smaller than 0,5 liter of vodka xP |
| 05:13.58 | jude- | DTRemenak: does BZ support sparse memory model? |
| 05:14.07 | DTRemenak | Epyon: hehe |
| 05:14.08 | jude- | 'cause that's what it uses :P |
| 05:14.15 | JeffM | what is sparse memory? |
| 05:14.20 | jude- | non-contiguous |
| 05:14.20 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14539 10/trunk/bzwgen/Makefile: add a simple Makefile for 'everyone else' so it can be tested |
| 05:14.27 | JeffM | eww |
| 05:14.33 | Epyon | brlcad, thanks, I needed that : |
| 05:14.35 | Epyon | :) |
| 05:14.37 | DTRemenak | should be able to nodelock it |
| 05:14.48 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14540 10/trunk/bzwgen/common.h: shouldn't put static into header |
| 05:15.03 | DTRemenak | unless they do something really bizarre with the display stuff |
| 05:15.15 | DTRemenak | one machine generally has plenty of power for bz |
| 05:15.24 | jude- | I think it's one node per screen...and they sync over a high-speed LAN |
| 05:15.26 | DTRemenak | we don't do high-end visualization stuff :) |
| 05:15.30 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14541 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (GridGenerator.cxx Zone.cxx): only need semi after class decl, not functions |
| 05:15.45 | Epyon | brlcad, that was my friutless war in trying to force C++ to do global vars |
| 05:15.46 | jude- | we have multiple one-screen simulators...but only 1 4-screen sim :P |
| 05:15.54 | DTRemenak | yeah, would have to make a few changes to do that |
| 05:16.09 | Epyon | what a nice feeling, someone cares for my code :) |
| 05:16.19 | DTRemenak | basically running separate scenerenderers for each of the -view three displays |
| 05:16.23 | DTRemenak | can't really use the top one |
| 05:16.36 | DTRemenak | could render sky I suppose :P |
| 05:16.37 | brlcad | Epyon: there's no problem using globals, even using statics .. you just shouldn't as that makes a copy for every instance that the header is included |
| 05:16.41 | jude- | heh |
| 05:16.58 | brlcad | shouldn't wrt statics in a header that is |
| 05:17.11 | Epyon | brlcad, I couldn't figure out how to do global variables in the end, so I did it the right way finally -_- |
| 05:17.11 | jude- | the difficulty in porting games (including Doom 3) is that sometimes the screens get out of sync |
| 05:17.11 | DTRemenak | Epyon: we've always cared for your code, it just hasn't been where we can pet it :) |
| 05:17.12 | brlcad | globals are no problem regardless |
| 05:17.29 | brlcad | Epyon: what you did, just without the 'static' |
| 05:17.33 | Epyon | Yet, GridInfo will be removed from Zone. |
| 05:17.47 | Epyon | brlcad, it crashed actually o.O |
| 05:18.01 | Epyon | So I went for GridInfo struct instead. |
| 05:18.01 | brlcad | you normally wouldn't initialize in a header either, that's done in compilation units (the cxx files) |
| 05:18.24 | DTRemenak | it'll come back as you use them more |
| 05:18.36 | Epyon | I know I know, I should be a C++ coder. |
| 05:18.39 | DTRemenak | at least you aren't coming from a java background :) |
| 05:18.39 | brlcad | and if there's not much to come back from, it will develop ;) |
| 05:18.42 | Epyon | From the beginning that is. |
| 05:19.00 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:19.23 | Epyon | Yet I still value the tidiness of one file per "unit" of pascal. |
| 05:19.31 | Epyon | And it's general tidyness. |
| 05:20.08 | brlcad | and now it's one file per "class" of c++ ;) |
| 05:20.16 | JeffM | 2 actualy |
| 05:20.27 | DTRemenak | interface and implementation |
| 05:20.27 | JeffM | that is his core issue IIRC |
| 05:20.35 | JeffM | I find it nicer |
| 05:20.37 | DTRemenak | makes a lot of sense to split them like that |
| 05:20.44 | JeffM | as I can just look at a header and see the interface info |
| 05:20.46 | DTRemenak | one of the few things that really bugs me about c# |
| 05:21.13 | Epyon | Well you can look at the interface part of a .pas file and you see the simmilar :) |
| 05:21.17 | JeffM | having to weed thru an old pascall file to find the interface mixed with imlemenation |
| 05:21.20 | Epyon | It's just that they are in one file :) |
| 05:21.49 | JeffM | if you use an IDE it starts to no matter |
| 05:21.57 | JeffM | as it'll automaticly go to the right places |
| 05:22.21 | Epyon | Havn't figured out how to force VS2005EE to do that yet -_- |
| 05:22.22 | DTRemenak | right-click, go to declaration/definition |
| 05:22.30 | JeffM | class browser ;) |
| 05:22.39 | DTRemenak | eww class browser |
| 05:22.44 | jude- | double eww |
| 05:22.49 | Epyon | You mean I would need to ... USE THE MOUSE? *shivers* |
| 05:22.54 | Epyon | :D |
| 05:23.06 | DTRemenak | if you have a 104-key keyboard, use the "context menu" button |
| 05:23.20 | DTRemenak | then hit "go to declaration" or "go to definition" |
| 05:23.39 | brlcad | cursor over symbol, M-. |
| 05:23.45 | Epyon | That's still less comfy than using Ctrl-Up in Lazarus/Freepascal :P |
| 05:24.24 | Epyon | "Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one |
| 05:24.24 | Epyon | to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when |
| 05:24.24 | Epyon | you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." |
| 05:24.34 | Epyon | I like that quote :) |
| 05:24.51 | DTRemenak | like I said, at least you didn't come from a java background :) |
| 05:25.00 | DTRemenak | or vb |
| 05:25.04 | brlcad | heh, I don't think I'd characterize C++ as "more forgiving" than pascal |
| 05:25.05 | Epyon | Okay, enough crusaderism for one evening ^_^ |
| 05:25.13 | Epyon | brlcad, why not? |
| 05:25.16 | brlcad | or most languages for that matter |
| 05:25.17 | jude- | ewww...vb |
| 05:25.32 | Epyon | You can define variables where you want in C++ |
| 05:25.40 | Epyon | That sometimes leads to a mess. |
| 05:26.02 | Epyon | Or other syntax "enhancements" that in reality just allow you to do more mess. |
| 05:26.13 | DTRemenak | F12 and Ctrl+Alt+F12 are Go To Declaration and Definition respectively by default |
| 05:26.25 | DTRemenak | now you don't even need to take your hands off the keyboard |
| 05:26.26 | brlcad | what you call mess generally serves a good purpose in a given context |
| 05:26.34 | brlcad | that flexibility is what get most in trouble |
| 05:26.40 | Epyon | Okay, Okay DTRemenak, I'd knew you'll hit me with a keybinding eventually :D |
| 05:26.41 | brlcad | big gun, pointed right at foot |
| 05:27.09 | Epyon | brlcad, ? |
| 05:27.11 | DTRemenak | took me a while to find it, VC's keybinding options dialog is rather dense |
| 05:29.38 | brlcad | Epyon: the language lets you do a lot, but all of the various combinations of things you can do often do not mean the same thing, and the language/compilar is usually pretty unforgiving for not knowing all the rules (nor helpful in explaining/warning either) |
| 05:29.46 | DTRemenak | VC is one of the most flexible and powerful IDE's available (emacs-user's comments notwithstanding) |
| 05:30.02 | DTRemenak | it has a lot of helpful features if you think to look for them |
| 05:30.02 | Epyon | Anyway, the last word in my Pascal crusade for today is that anyone who didn't hear about FreePascal and wants to ditch the pascal language, should take a look. It'a a realy good compiler that just didn't make it in time to save the language :/ |
| 05:30.18 | jude- | DTRemenak: lol |
| 05:30.32 | brlcad | you have a huge uphill battle with that crusade there.. :) |
| 05:30.38 | jude- | let's not ignite the vi vs emacs debate as developer's editors :) |
| 05:30.42 | DTRemenak | that's why it's called a crusade :) |
| 05:30.56 | Epyon | DTRemenak, yeah, I'll now take some time to explore it (before I was just fighting with time for LOC's and results, so I didn't have time :/) |
| 05:31.08 | DTRemenak | loc's are irrelevant |
| 05:31.19 | DTRemenak | except inasmuch as they lead to maintainable code and good results |
| 05:31.30 | DTRemenak | just thought I'd throw that out there :) |
| 05:32.13 | Epyon | brlcad, I know my pascal crusade is a lost-from-the-beginning one. Yet I realy like that language, for it's tidyness, so I can't help myself :) |
| 05:32.39 | brlcad | oh, that wasn't the point, just interesting graphs :) |
| 05:32.45 | DTRemenak | true enough |
| 05:32.51 | JeffM | if pascal was better, people woudl still use it ;) |
| 05:33.36 | Epyon | JeffM, that's not entirely true. And linux guys should know that the best. |
| 05:33.37 | jude- | sort of like Prolog and 5th-Generation machines :) |
| 05:34.01 | DTRemenak | Epyon: funny, I haven't seen anyone switching away from linux recently :) |
| 05:34.06 | Epyon | All of us know that linux > windows, so why don't all people use linux? |
| 05:34.24 | jude- | Epyon: laziness, ultimately |
| 05:34.26 | JeffM | because it's not ;) |
| 05:34.36 | JeffM | when my mom can install linux, then maybe |
| 05:34.42 | JeffM | it's better at some things |
| 05:34.43 | brlcad | the war rages on! ... http://www.ohloh.net/languages;compare?measure=commits&percent=true&l0=pascal&l1=bat&l2=-1&commit=Update |
| 05:35.01 | JeffM | worse at toerhs |
| 05:35.01 | JeffM | you don't know my mom |
| 05:35.08 | Epyon | http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=fpascal&lang2=gpp |
| 05:35.09 | brlcad | Epyon: do you know many other languages? |
| 05:35.13 | DTRemenak | "put in the cd right-side up" is not all that challenging :) |
| 05:35.23 | brlcad | it's easy to like something you're familiar with |
| 05:35.43 | Epyon | brlcad, I can tell you the languages that I know better than C++ if that helps :P |
| 05:36.37 | Epyon | At my home out of the 4 running computers only my father uses linux. |
| 05:37.27 | Macrosoft | the linux box may be outnumbered by his enemies, but he will smite those other 3 boxes |
| 05:38.21 | jude- | umm...that made absolutely no sense |
| 05:38.33 | DTRemenak | you expect the things he says to make sense? |
| 05:38.42 | jude- | less and less these days... |
| 05:38.55 | Macrosoft | was talking about epyons computers |
| 05:39.06 | Epyon | brlcad, better than C++ I know Pascal, Ruby, Perl, Ruby, PHP, OCaml, SML, Java. |
| 05:39.30 | Epyon | And a couple of unknown languages like MaxScript etc. |
| 05:39.47 | brlcad | mm. sml/nj |
| 05:39.54 | DTRemenak | mmm...ocaml |
| 05:40.04 | jude- | ~wiki ocaml |
| 05:40.13 | Epyon | Less than C++ I know Python, Small talk, Fortran, and a lot more experience in writing small programs in less known languages. |
| 05:40.57 | DTRemenak | jude-: type-inferring functional language |
| 05:41.01 | Epyon | SML and OCaml, are actually really nice languages, too bad they don't have "serious" implementations :/ |
| 05:42.01 | Epyon | By "serious" I mean a good compiler to machine language with decent library support. |
| 05:42.56 | DTRemenak | 'tis hard to make a good compiled functional language |
| 05:43.32 | Epyon | Macrosoft, unfortunately my box is always the strongest :P. Yet there is hope -- I have a knoppix-hd partition here -- too bad I rarely boot to it though :/ |
| 05:44.00 | DTRemenak | hm, so has the sun risen there yet? :) |
| 05:44.10 | brlcad | nahh, just needs a good bearded zealot to proselytize the language ;) |
| 05:44.17 | Epyon | DTRemenak, yet their tidyness especialy in terms of implementing datastructures is impressive. |
| 05:44.18 | Macrosoft | my mandriva/(k)ubuntu box will help back them up |
| 05:44.37 | DTRemenak | Epyon: I was not intending to insult or disparage functional languages |
| 05:44.42 | DTRemenak | they have their place |
| 05:44.45 | Epyon | DTRemenak, it's 7:44 here, I'll go to sleep when I finish my beer :P |
| 05:44.57 | Macrosoft | AM or PM? |
| 05:45.00 | DTRemenak | fast, efficient compiled code is not one of their strengths |
| 05:45.10 | brlcad | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 05:45.16 | brlcad | len does look like the problem |
| 05:45.21 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 05:45.21 | brlcad | missed that param on the conversion |
| 05:45.34 | Epyon | Macrosoft, I never could distinguish those two, but it's morning ;] |
| 05:45.36 | DTRemenak | yeah, it needs to know how short it is |
| 05:45.45 | Macrosoft | so AM then |
| 05:46.04 | Epyon | DTRemenak, SML can be really fast if you know how to programm in it. |
| 05:46.11 | DTRemenak | originally I had written it to copy the displayed text via substr, but that was apparently the biggest slowdown after oprofiling |
| 05:46.36 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 05:46.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 05:46.54 | Epyon | Anyway, I'm a Pascal zealot, not a Functional Language zealot :P |
| 05:48.01 | DTRemenak | it shows in your c :) |
| 05:48.40 | DTRemenak | not that that's a bad thing, just leads to a few odd stylistic things |
| 05:48.49 | DTRemenak | and I'd much rather see pascalisms than javaisms |
| 05:49.18 | Epyon | :> |
| 05:49.24 | jude- | which javaisms are you referring to? |
| 05:49.40 | jude- | using "new" everywhere? |
| 05:49.45 | Epyon | xD |
| 05:49.56 | DTRemenak | primarily the fact that people with long java histories have difficulty with memory management |
| 05:50.01 | jude- | heh |
| 05:50.04 | Epyon | There's one Java guy that is haunting me. |
| 05:50.09 | jude- | I can see why that would be the case |
| 05:50.14 | DTRemenak | also people stuffing code into header files |
| 05:50.15 | brlcad | abuse of getters and setters |
| 05:50.21 | DTRemenak | and abuse of get/set functions |
| 05:50.24 | DTRemenak | ... |
| 05:50.27 | brlcad | :) |
| 05:50.33 | jude- | "abuse"? |
| 05:51.01 | DTRemenak | not every field needs to be exposed |
| 05:51.02 | brlcad | yes, abuse |
| 05:51.08 | brlcad | like a pimp and his employees |
| 05:51.13 | DTRemenak | when gets/sets are habitual, private data often gets exposed |
| 05:51.19 | jude- | ahhh |
| 05:51.26 | Epyon | He want's me to write a graphical Java client for a IBM TN3270 server. |
| 05:51.30 | jude- | exposing EVERYTHING, you mean |
| 05:51.34 | DTRemenak | classes should be exporting functionality, not data |
| 05:51.43 | jude- | right |
| 05:52.06 | brlcad | overarchitecting sometimes too, though you can find that with C++ coders too |
| 05:52.17 | DTRemenak | stuff like this just scares me: http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=280669&forumID=31 |
| 05:52.52 | brlcad | creating classes and/or complex structures, hierarchies, when often just a switch statement and an array would do or an int or .. etc |
| 05:53.03 | Epyon | Well, I'm a person that tends to write ugly working and effective code first and then trying to push it into the "standards" |
| 05:53.15 | jude- | heh |
| 05:53.28 | Epyon | I'm a prototype man :/ |
| 05:53.44 | brlcad | (overarchitecting) .. nasty habit, hard to break |
| 05:53.49 | brlcad | sometimes even realize I'm doing it |
| 05:53.55 | DTRemenak | yeah, same here |
| 05:54.01 | SportChick | I should have been born in Missouri - I'm a "show me" kinda gal |
| 05:54.06 | DTRemenak | but I do it anyway for the "unnamed future flexibility" |
| 05:54.11 | brlcad | heya SportChick |
| 05:54.21 | SportChick | hiya brlcad |
| 05:54.40 | brlcad | SportChick: friday good for you? |
| 05:54.56 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-171-116-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:55.35 | DTRemenak | Epyon: if you ever wanted to travel to san diego, friday, aug 10 is a great time to do so ;) |
| 05:55.48 | brlcad | yeah, 10th |
| 05:55.49 | jude- | Siggraph? |
| 05:55.53 | Epyon | san diego? That's in the US? |
| 05:55.56 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:55.57 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 05:56.02 | Epyon | What state? |
| 05:56.08 | DTRemenak | california |
| 05:56.11 | DTRemenak | south of los angeles |
| 05:56.15 | L4m3r | Land of the Governator |
| 05:56.19 | jude- | near the us/mexico border |
| 05:56.34 | L4m3r | also near an awesome surf beach known as San Onofre :D |
| 05:56.46 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I'll be travelling to San Francisco in 1,5 year, I'll might consider it :) |
| 05:56.49 | DTRemenak | http://www.google.com/maps?q=San+Diego,+CA,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&ct=title |
| 05:57.05 | L4m3r | so what's going on down there? |
| 05:57.06 | DTRemenak | jude-: you're welcome to come for the 10th at least |
| 05:57.29 | JeffM | damn this machine renders fast now |
| 05:57.34 | DTRemenak | bzflag folks usually get together around siggraph time |
| 05:57.40 | jude- | DTRemenak: it's a question of transportation :/ |
| 05:57.42 | SportChick | brlcad: someone needs to email me details - I'm out of the loop (and giong to sleep right now) |
| 05:58.13 | brlcad | SportChick: that's all the details righ tnow |
| 05:58.19 | brlcad | friday |
| 05:58.21 | brlcad | get together |
| 05:58.22 | brlcad | in sd |
| 05:58.32 | brlcad | not much more decided beyond that :) |
| 05:58.57 | Epyon | Believe me, if I could get there for less than 300$ I'd be there :) |
| 05:59.13 | L4m3r | I could probably take the day off and get a car :P |
| 05:59.35 | jude- | I might be able to go if I can get that weekend off and if I can get my parent's permission |
| 05:59.36 | JeffM | there could be carpooling for various legs |
| 05:59.41 | L4m3r | assuming my sister doesn't break or wreck it before then |
| 05:59.52 | Epyon | (300$ is about my current bank account roll xP) |
| 05:59.57 | JeffM | DTRemenak and myself have to drive tru your area to get down there |
| 06:00.12 | JeffM | then all of us could hit redondo, meet with the sporty, and merge into one big carpool |
| 06:00.19 | L4m3r | heh |
| 06:00.29 | brlcad | heh, if I could get there for less than $300, I'd probably visit more than I do |
| 06:00.36 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:00.39 | L4m3r | I could probably get a van |
| 06:00.42 | Epyon | brlcad ? |
| 06:00.54 | brlcad | that's pretty cheap is all |
| 06:00.56 | Epyon | brlcad, you don't live in the US? |
| 06:01.00 | brlcad | as far as traveling goes |
| 06:01.08 | brlcad | when you put all the expense together |
| 06:01.17 | DTRemenak | it's hard to get coast-to-coast inside the us for that price, Epyon |
| 06:01.21 | L4m3r | not sure if my dad would be so hot on that though, because he just got new tires and they're about an inch from hitting the wheel wells >_< |
| 06:01.31 | Epyon | Ah, I was talking only about the air ticket xP |
| 06:01.44 | L4m3r | they are too, Epyon |
| 06:01.45 | brlcad | hard to get a ticket that cheap without being a year in advance |
| 06:02.04 | DTRemenak | Epyon: gotta remember, might be the same country, but it's still 2700 miles |
| 06:02.12 | brlcad | most cross-country are 400-600 |
| 06:02.14 | Epyon | Well, for 300$ you can get from any place in europe to any other xp |
| 06:02.28 | JeffM | L4m3r, well I was pondering riding my bike down there to see if I could make it, maybe DTRemenak coudl drive out tehre, pick you up, hit redondo and everyone take one car down, and I'd follow in my motorcyle |
| 06:02.33 | jude- | Europe is also a lot smaller, Epyon :) |
| 06:02.45 | Epyon | jude-. and cheaper :P |
| 06:02.50 | jude- | indeed |
| 06:02.54 | jude- | more public transportation |
| 06:02.55 | L4m3r | JeffM: the question is, who has a large enough car? :P |
| 06:03.11 | jude- | mine seats seven, if someone rides in the trunk :P |
| 06:03.25 | JeffM | I belive sportchick has a jeep type car |
| 06:03.28 | L4m3r | the Synchro can seat 7 with seat belts, but it has no horsepower |
| 06:03.35 | Epyon | Honestly, can you imagine that for 300$ you can live in poland for 3 months and still have money for beer every friday? :P |
| 06:03.43 | JeffM | that would seat 4 |
| 06:03.51 | jude- | that's quite amazing, Epyon |
| 06:04.22 | DTRemenak | hm...$300 is what, a bit less than a week's rent for me, I guess |
| 06:04.24 | Epyon | jude-, now you can imagine that the 4500$ are a lot more for me than they are for you :P |
| 06:04.25 | L4m3r | wow, if only there was a way to spend a summer there while still working in the US |
| 06:04.58 | jude- | Epyon: the cost of living in the US is unfortunately pretty high these days... |
| 06:04.59 | DTRemenak | and I'm in about the cheapest, one-bedroom apt I could find in the area |
| 06:05.14 | Epyon | O |
| 06:05.17 | brlcad | Epyon: honestly, yes I can imagine .. the economics on most of the planet are far different than they are in the continental US except for pockets |
| 06:05.36 | Epyon | That's the only reason I think that I could live off from donations here. |
| 06:05.58 | DTRemenak | ~L4m3r++ |
| 06:06.06 | brlcad | the economics scale too, though -- the average is certainly higher as well as reduce range from top to bottom |
| 06:06.07 | jude- | heh. tis true |
| 06:06.30 | DTRemenak | yup, 'tis a debt economy, sadly |
| 06:06.38 | jude- | Epyon: it's estimated that over half of all Americans are in debt |
| 06:06.46 | jude- | too easy to get credit cards |
| 06:06.56 | L4m3r | god damn college! |
| 06:06.58 | Epyon | Running a international company while living in poland is the key to being rich xP |
| 06:06.58 | DTRemenak | just 'cause you get one doesn't mean you have to use it jude- |
| 06:07.24 | Epyon | jude-, I know, I lived in the US for a year :) |
| 06:07.27 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: I paid off my college loans...'tis what happens when you live like a college student, after you leave college :) |
| 06:07.31 | L4m3r | I should get one so I can start building my credit |
| 06:07.46 | Epyon | In poland education is free :) |
| 06:07.52 | L4m3r | my loans shouldn't be too bad |
| 06:08.05 | DTRemenak | yeah, mine weren't either...large scholarships help |
| 06:08.09 | Epyon | That's probably why we get a 56% rate of students :P |
| 06:08.10 | L4m3r | I get a nice fat grant because my mother's income is pitiful |
| 06:08.13 | DTRemenak | ~brlcad++ |
| 06:08.21 | brlcad | i haven't even written a check in over a decade |
| 06:08.33 | DTRemenak | I write checks pretty continuously...rent and such |
| 06:08.41 | L4m3r | but it's a debit card so I still can't spend more than I have |
| 06:08.42 | brlcad | I go buy money orders |
| 06:08.45 | Epyon | ~brlcad++ |
| 06:09.02 | brlcad | i'd rather do that than pull out a check that has variable delays and other hassles |
| 06:09.18 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I'd be awefully nervous walking around with a $1300 money order in my pocket :S |
| 06:09.38 | L4m3r | I like the debit card more than cash- convenient, and easy to keep track of funds online |
| 06:09.46 | jude- | indeed |
| 06:09.49 | brlcad | the arbitrary bank holding timeframes so that they can acquire cummulative interest on the liquidity pisses me off to no end |
| 06:09.59 | L4m3r | and, well, when you buy a lot of stuff online like I do, cash doesn't quite work :P |
| 06:10.25 | brlcad | DTRemenak: I've done far more than that, you get used to it ;) |
| 06:10.33 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:10.34 | Epyon | L4m3r, so do I |
| 06:10.51 | brlcad | it's not really any different than walking around with a laptop |
| 06:11.00 | Epyon | L4m3r, I almost never carry cash anymore. |
| 06:11.04 | brlcad | at least, a good one |
| 06:11.12 | jude- | walking around with $1300 isn't so bad if you also carry a firearm :P |
| 06:11.21 | DTRemenak | jude-: this is california we're talking about |
| 06:11.29 | jude- | illegal in CA? |
| 06:11.39 | DTRemenak | most places |
| 06:11.41 | jude- | that's too bad |
| 06:11.44 | Epyon | Just don't think that poland is such a backwater country where you can't pay with a Visa xP |
| 06:11.50 | jude- | it's perfectly legal to carry an exposed weapon in Arizona :) |
| 06:12.00 | jude- | Epyon: nah |
| 06:12.02 | DTRemenak | yup...CA is way stricter though |
| 06:12.05 | jude- | that's Russia :P |
| 06:12.25 | L4m3r | unfortunately Californians are under the impression that criminals will follow gun laws |
| 06:12.39 | Epyon | jude-, you think that's funny? I've been asked the wierdest questions about Poland when I was in the US. |
| 06:12.40 | DTRemenak | not all californians |
| 06:12.50 | DTRemenak | but then again, this is california, the land of fruits and nuts |
| 06:12.51 | L4m3r | ...enough of the voters anyway |
| 06:12.56 | DTRemenak | yup, sadly |
| 06:13.13 | jude- | Epyon: what do you think that I think is funny? |
| 06:13.33 | jude- | the fact that you're asked weird questions about Poland? |
| 06:14.04 | Macrosoft | here's some really low budget image editing: http://mdk0.servegame.com/(k)ubuntu.png |
| 06:14.07 | jude- | I think that its pretty sad how isolated most US citizens are from the rest of the world |
| 06:14.28 | DTRemenak | Epyon: a lot of people still think of pre-1989 poland, sadly...it's the last time it was really in the news around here |
| 06:14.32 | L4m3r | I think I'm going to need woot rehab soon |
| 06:14.40 | Epyon | jude-, I've been asked if we have polar bears in Poland. I've been asked if we have computers in Poland. I've been asked if we have cars in Poland. Hell, I've been even asked what part of th USSR is Poland in.... |
| 06:14.51 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:14.55 | L4m3r | wow |
| 06:14.55 | jude- | wow |
| 06:14.58 | L4m3r | even I'm not THAT bad |
| 06:15.04 | DTRemenak | yay for people not knowing history |
| 06:15.08 | DTRemenak | or geography |
| 06:15.08 | jude- | I try not to be :P |
| 06:15.48 | Epyon | Okay, it was in a Tennessee Public Highschool, so don't feel THAT bad :P |
| 06:15.57 | jude- | heh |
| 06:16.04 | DTRemenak | though a lot of what I tend to think of as poland (as a bit of a history buff) WAS in the USSR (Wilno and such) |
| 06:16.04 | jude- | still |
| 06:16.29 | Epyon | Wilno is actually in Lithuania now, DTRemenak :P |
| 06:16.33 | DTRemenak | but that's just 'cause I think poland got the shaft in WW2 |
| 06:16.34 | jude- | yeah--that's when it really shows up in history textbooks--between WWII and the fall of Soviet Russia |
| 06:16.48 | DTRemenak | Epyon: I know...and lithuania was in the ussr |
| 06:17.06 | Epyon | Poland was a casualtly in WW2, and the winners write the histroy :/ |
| 06:17.08 | DTRemenak | therefore wilno was in the ussr (I even capitalized was :P) |
| 06:17.39 | DTRemenak | poland is rather frequently a casualty |
| 06:17.49 | jude- | Epyon: indeed, sort of like Armenia |
| 06:17.58 | DTRemenak | WW1 being a notable exception |
| 06:18.21 | Epyon | Anyway, I've seen many bad "history-based" movies made by hollywood, that write the history really wrong, so I'm worried. |
| 06:18.40 | jude- | since when do educated people trust the historical accuracy of Hollywood? |
| 06:18.47 | DTRemenak | hollywood does not represent educated america |
| 06:18.50 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:19.50 | Epyon | Anyway, the movie Enigma was one of such ridiculously cruel examples. Anyone seen it? |
| 06:19.59 | jude- | nope, and I won't now : |
| 06:20.30 | Epyon | Well, the only pole that was shown in the movie was a traitor. And you know what's funny? |
| 06:21.10 | jude- | enlighten us, please? |
| 06:22.08 | Epyon | That the truth is that three polish mathematicians cracked the Enigma code during WW2, and send their results to Alan Turing, Alan constructed the machine, and that was the famous cracking of the most important Nazi machine. |
| 06:22.25 | Epyon | You can read about it on Wikipedia if you don't believe me. |
| 06:22.38 | jude- | yup |
| 06:22.40 | Epyon | Yet the movie Enigma has just one Pole and he's a traitor. |
| 06:22.51 | Epyon | Hardly fair isn't it? |
| 06:23.02 | jude- | like I said, Hollywood isn't a trusted historical reference for good reasons :) |
| 06:23.28 | Epyon | The victors write history. In this case Americans wrote the history :( |
| 06:23.29 | jude- | and you're right, it isn't fair |
| 06:23.39 | Macrosoft | typical movie = sex + violence + explosions ^ 2 |
| 06:23.40 | jude- | Epyon: Movies != History |
| 06:23.52 | L4m3r | ooooh, explosions |
| 06:23.55 | jude- | Movies == Entertainment |
| 06:24.02 | DTRemenak | mmm, explosions |
| 06:24.04 | jude- | Entertainment != Truth |
| 06:24.06 | Epyon | Also the movie "Uprising" about the Jewish uprising in Warsaw is a complete lie. |
| 06:24.13 | jude- | didn't see that one either |
| 06:24.56 | L4m3r | you have to understand that the American indoctri^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heducation system is rather messed up, especially in the history department |
| 06:24.59 | Epyon | There was no country in Europe where the Jews could really express their religion as they did in Poland. Yet now they hate us as they do the Germans. |
| 06:25.01 | Epyon | Why? |
| 06:25.08 | Epyon | I'll never know. |
| 06:25.22 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: ^W is more efficient |
| 06:25.23 | Macrosoft | they hate everyone |
| 06:25.41 | Epyon | My grandmother was hiding Jews at the risk of her own life. |
| 06:25.55 | jude- | Epyon: have you any evidence to suggest this? |
| 06:26.29 | Epyon | Not many people know about it but during WWII the germans said that any person who even goves bread to a Jew will be EXECUTED. |
| 06:26.46 | L4m3r | my granpa was born a protestant, in Germany. iirc, he converted to judaism. BAD TIMING. |
| 06:26.47 | Epyon | Not to mention hiding them. |
| 06:27.12 | Macrosoft | has R3lax been back yet? |
| 06:27.20 | jude- | Epyon: I knew that already |
| 06:27.31 | DTRemenak | and yet many people in the occupied nations as well as in germany proper, did render assistance, Epyon |
| 06:27.37 | Epyon | Half of my familly from my fathers side died in concentration camps for hiding Judes. |
| 06:27.44 | Macrosoft | he's trying to make the anonymous /say code work |
| 06:27.45 | Epyon | Jwes. |
| 06:27.50 | Epyon | Jews. |
| 06:27.57 | Epyon | Damn, my keyboard. |
| 06:27.59 | DTRemenak | heh, getting enough beer you can't type straight? :) |
| 06:28.02 | Macrosoft | nice typo |
| 06:28.11 | Epyon | DTRemenak, yeah :DDDDDD |
| 06:28.14 | Macrosoft | dont you agree jude |
| 06:28.23 | L4m3r | Macrosoft, he's not here, why don't you PM him on bzbb? |
| 06:28.43 | Macrosoft | i might later |
| 06:28.47 | Epyon | DTRemenak, but it's because polish is more near German than English sometimes. |
| 06:29.23 | Macrosoft | he tried compiling it with 2.0.9 instead of 2.0.8, you think it would still work? |
| 06:29.30 | Epyon | If it weren't for the fact that my grandfather managed to escape a "death wagon" to a concentration camp, I wouln't be here :/ |
| 06:30.21 | jude- | fortunately, fate inteveined :) |
| 06:30.28 | jude- | ~spell interveined |
| 06:30.35 | jude- | intervened |
| 06:30.47 | Epyon | And then after all that I hear about "polish concentration camps" and that "polish people are so much responsible for the holocaust as the germans are". When I hear such things it realy kills me. |
| 06:31.03 | jude- | I've never heard that |
| 06:31.04 | Macrosoft | jude- needs to back off of the beer too :) |
| 06:31.06 | DTRemenak | Epyon: unfortunately, americans tend to think of communism when they think of poland, and that has many negative connotations here. |
| 06:31.13 | jude- | Macrosoft: I'm underage |
| 06:31.17 | Epyon | But unfortuantely it's the winners that write history :( |
| 06:31.22 | jude- | in fact, I've heard the opposite |
| 06:31.31 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I know. I know :( |
| 06:31.44 | Macrosoft | jude-: that doesnt stop most people |
| 06:31.54 | L4m3r | saying that Poland is in any way responsible for the holocaust seems thickheaded at the very least, in my eyes |
| 06:31.59 | jude- | Macrosoft: that, and I can't stand the taste of alcohol |
| 06:31.59 | Epyon | DTRemenak, the funny thing is that communism started to break up strating from poland :/ |
| 06:32.08 | jude- | ineed |
| 06:32.10 | jude- | *indeed |
| 06:32.15 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-018-193.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 06:32.32 | Epyon | L4m3r, it's just because many of the concentration camps were located in Poland :/ |
| 06:32.36 | DTRemenak | the polish resistance was extremely well-organized and led, but we hear much more about the french resistance, because the poles were considered "enemies" in the cold war environment |
| 06:32.49 | jude- | Poland was effectively responsible for the beginning of the end of the USSR |
| 06:33.00 | Epyon | L4m3r, and now many Jews from Izrael believe that Poles were as much responsible as the Nazi were :/ |
| 06:33.07 | L4m3r | Epyon: yes, but they were conquered by Germany! |
| 06:33.27 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 06:33.46 | Epyon | jude-, you don;t comprehend, how much those words you say fill me with hope in mankind :) |
| 06:33.52 | L4m3r | Poland had lost itself before the real "war" even started :\ |
| 06:34.08 | DTRemenak | jude-: one could be saying the same about Hungary, or Czechloslovakia, had things been slightly different. resistance to communism was pretty widespread in eastern europe. |
| 06:34.25 | jude- | but Poland was the first to break away |
| 06:34.26 | Epyon | DTRemenak, type "french military victories" in Google :P |
| 06:34.45 | AAA_awright | ~google "french military victories" |
| 06:34.50 | L4m3r | the fall of France in WWII cracks me up |
| 06:34.51 | DTRemenak | the fact that the poles succeeded where the others did not was due to both persistance and good timing |
| 06:35.17 | jude- | DTRemenak: it only took one nation to stand up to the USSR to prove that the USSR wasn't invinsible, however |
| 06:35.24 | Epyon | Yet now it's Germany and France that decide on Poland's fate in the European Union here :/. Fate it seems is not without a sense of irony :/ |
| 06:35.26 | AAA_awright | ~ping |
| 06:35.28 | ibot | pong |
| 06:35.36 | AAA_awright | ~google french military victories |
| 06:35.40 | DTRemenak | Epyon: what good would fate be, without irony :) |
| 06:35.43 | L4m3r | considering that Hitler did pretty much the same thing that the Germans did in WWI, and France hadn't prepared for it |
| 06:35.57 | jude- | heh |
| 06:35.58 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: sure they did...they build the Maginot line! |
| 06:35.59 | AAA_awright | ... Continue as if I said nothing. |
| 06:36.02 | jude- | Germany's defeat was predictable |
| 06:36.11 | DTRemenak | right across the place the germans would NOT attack directly |
| 06:36.13 | jude- | two-fronted wars don't work out very well :P |
| 06:36.25 | Epyon | brb :) |
| 06:36.28 | L4m3r | DTRemenak: yeah, God forbid they go through BELGIUM... again... |
| 06:36.45 | DTRemenak | what, and not respect their neutrality!? never! |
| 06:38.37 | jude- | "french military victory"--biggest historical oxymoron :P |
| 06:38.37 | Epyon | Anyway, it's nice to hear, that at least a few people here have an idea what happened really in europe during WWII :) |
| 06:38.58 | jude- | (of the 20th century, at least) |
| 06:39.31 | L4m3r | not all Americans are grossly ignorant, just most |
| 06:39.41 | jude- | Epyon: unfortunately, we're a shrinking minority |
| 06:39.52 | DTRemenak | I'd suggest that most people worldwide are grossly ignorant |
| 06:40.03 | DTRemenak | Americans just have the power and ego to show it off |
| 06:40.18 | Epyon | That's because the people with the most money are writing history :/ |
| 06:40.36 | Epyon | And poland isn't that much of a rich country to have influence :/ |
| 06:41.03 | L4m3r | I bet most Americans would be shocked if you told them that some of the early settlements were in fact penal colonies |
| 06:41.15 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: interesting, the Australians celebrate the fact |
| 06:41.25 | L4m3r | heh |
| 06:41.27 | Epyon | Most Australiabs would be shocked too xP |
| 06:41.32 | DTRemenak | but then, there's a bit of a different attitude Down Under :) |
| 06:41.55 | Epyon | You know guys what disturbes me most? |
| 06:42.01 | jude- | what would that be? |
| 06:42.10 | brlcad | people that don't like pascal? |
| 06:42.20 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: and I suspect most people are aware that Georgia was a penal colony; it's basically the one-line description given in most history texts |
| 06:42.39 | DTRemenak | hm, that would imply that most people read their history texts |
| 06:42.44 | DTRemenak | faulty logic...I take it back |
| 06:42.46 | jude- | DTRemank: do they remember it, though? |
| 06:42.49 | L4m3r | http://bash.org/?262417 |
| 06:42.58 | brlcad | do they care |
| 06:43.05 | jude- | sadly, probably not |
| 06:43.15 | jude- | and those that do not care about history are doomed to repeat it |
| 06:43.20 | DTRemenak | those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it |
| 06:43.22 | DTRemenak | gah |
| 06:43.36 | DTRemenak | we've got to stop doing that |
| 06:44.00 | L4m3r | ...so there's a really serious issue with the fact that American history is totally sugarcoated and we only learn the positive parts :) |
| 06:44.03 | AAA_awright | L4m3r: Ha! |
| 06:44.08 | DTRemenak | jude-: but we have the Federal Reserve, so it'll all be ok... :P |
| 06:44.22 | jude- | yeah. uh-huh. sure |
| 06:44.23 | jude- | :P |
| 06:44.50 | L4m3r | until a bunch of Chinese debt collectors take it away |
| 06:44.53 | L4m3r | XD |
| 06:45.05 | Epyon | It's that most AVEGARE americans that I met (I mean my High School average, so that doesn't include you BZF people here :) ) think that Poland, more! Europe! is something is something that is in terms of civilisation behind America. That here where I live is somewhere where democracy didn't manage to get, that we live in Ice Age or something. Basically that we are a "uncivilised nation" that could only dream of America's freedoms and civilisat |
| 06:45.26 | Epyon | That was something that I REALLY felt on my own skin when I was in the US :( |
| 06:45.36 | DTRemenak | once again born from the cold war |
| 06:45.46 | Epyon | They all treated me like someone from the "Third World" :( |
| 06:45.51 | L4m3r | 20 years ago that was almost the case |
| 06:45.53 | jude- | more accurately, influenced by their parents who lived in the cold war |
| 06:46.03 | DTRemenak | it was a common tactic to imply that the communist world was completely uncivilized |
| 06:46.08 | L4m3r | now we're lagging behind, especially in communication tech |
| 06:46.22 | jude- | Epyon: most astute Americans would realize that Europe is further ahead of the US in many ways |
| 06:46.31 | Epyon | L4m3r, especialy consideing Japan xP |
| 06:46.42 | Epyon | But that's faaaaaar East xP |
| 06:46.42 | L4m3r | but even in Europe |
| 06:46.45 | DTRemenak | when in fact, prior to the USSR's occupation of eastern europe, many of the centers of western culture were there |
| 06:46.46 | jude- | i.e. communication infrastructure, public transportation, social services, ... |
| 06:47.05 | DTRemenak | Prague being one of the best examples |
| 06:47.13 | Epyon | :) |
| 06:47.31 | L4m3r | I'll never understand why, but over the last half-century Americans have become scared of change |
| 06:47.43 | jude- | Epyon: I expect that attitude will die off with the last of the "baby boomer" generation which lived through the cold war |
| 06:47.59 | jude- | L4m3r: there are more middle-aged people, now |
| 06:48.34 | Epyon | Yet, I experienced a lot of sad things while living in the US. |
| 06:48.38 | L4m3r | jude-: it's not even that. the far left in this country is STILL right by international standards |
| 06:48.48 | DTRemenak | Epyon: #bzflag is not an american-centric channel either (purely coincidence that everyone talking at the moment besides you is) |
| 06:48.53 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=Legolas_@adsl-68-127-118-248.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net) |
| 06:49.04 | DTRemenak | maybe not so much coincidence as timezone, actually :) |
| 06:49.24 | jude- | L4m3r: the problem, as I see it, is that politicians really can't be rational if they want to emotionally and ethically appease the voters |
| 06:49.31 | L4m3r | almost all political officials are dedicated to preserving the status quo in most respects |
| 06:49.39 | jude- | indeed |
| 06:49.41 | Legolas_ | Hello BZFlag developers, Players, and jude, who belongs in his own little category for brillance |
| 06:49.43 | Epyon | Yet I achieved that the next Pole that will visit Hillsboro High in Tennessee will be considered a Genius until prooved otherwise xP |
| 06:49.52 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: that's how they ensure job security |
| 06:50.10 | jude- | Legolas_, you do me too much credit :) |
| 06:50.15 | Epyon | Yo Legolas_ :P |
| 06:50.52 | Epyon | Now shhhhh, or they'll think it's a political activist channel xP |
| 06:51.03 | jude- | Epyon: what are they going to do about it? |
| 06:51.11 | jude- | and who is "they"? |
| 06:51.21 | DTRemenak | jude-: throw us in prison without charging us |
| 06:51.24 | DTRemenak | naturally |
| 06:51.25 | Epyon | Visitors? :P |
| 06:53.15 | jude- | DTRemenak: we'd be pretty hard to trace, I would think |
| 06:53.26 | jude- | even our IP addresses only lead to the ISP |
| 06:53.28 | DTRemenak | jude-: ehh |
| 06:54.01 | DTRemenak | jude-: and actually, neither would you |
| 06:54.37 | Epyon | jude-, DTRemenak, L4m3r, brlcad, you brang me back the faith in the american nation :P |
| 06:54.41 | Legolas_ | ok, night guys |
| 06:54.46 | L4m3r | jude-: look out your window, and then run |
| 06:55.20 | jude- | DTRemenak: let me clarify: "we aren't difficult to trace?" |
| 06:55.47 | DTRemenak | jude-: correct, we are not difficult to trace |
| 06:56.18 | jude- | maybe not, but it would be pretty conspicuous if a swat team showed up where I'm at right now :) |
| 06:56.27 | jude- | people would be asking questions up and down |
| 06:56.33 | DTRemenak | pft, they wouldn't do it right now |
| 06:56.49 | L4m3r | no, they'd send a special ops team and shoot you with a tranq dart |
| 06:56.53 | DTRemenak | first you get put on a "terrorism watch list" |
| 06:57.10 | jude- | for what? |
| 06:57.11 | DTRemenak | then you get arrested when you try to a) visit the bank or b) travel across state lines |
| 06:57.29 | DTRemenak | sedition |
| 06:57.32 | jude- | pfffft |
| 06:57.43 | jude- | every last sedition act during war time has been torn down soon afterward |
| 06:57.47 | Epyon | I could be tracked for saying anti-bush comments right after Sep 11 |
| 06:58.00 | Epyon | I was still in the US then. |
| 06:58.14 | jude- | Epyon: he's a lame duck president--he probably doesn't care much about anything right now |
| 06:58.46 | L4m3r | oh yes he does |
| 06:58.48 | jude- | heh--"At least Nixon resigned" |
| 06:58.50 | Epyon | jude-, yet then I was one of thefew people to talk against him. |
| 06:58.58 | L4m3r | the damage will be with us for YEARS |
| 06:59.04 | jude- | Tennessee is a pretty conservative state, however |
| 06:59.11 | jude- | there are a lot of Bush supporters there |
| 06:59.19 | jude- | comparatively speaking, of course |
| 06:59.26 | L4m3r | Bush will be gone, but Samuel Alito will stay a while |
| 06:59.47 | L4m3r | along with the rest of the now-conservative supreme court |
| 07:00.06 | jude- | if it gets bad enough, they'll get removed somehow |
| 07:00.12 | DTRemenak | strict-constructionist supreme court doesn't bother me |
| 07:00.20 | L4m3r | no they won't, jude- |
| 07:00.26 | L4m3r | that's part of their job |
| 07:00.38 | DTRemenak | executive violations of civil rights bother me |
| 07:00.43 | jude- | IIRC, they hold office "in Good Behavior" |
| 07:00.55 | jude- | they can be fired |
| 07:01.02 | L4m3r | yes, but they can't be removed because they're unpopular |
| 07:01.06 | Epyon | jude-, NOT IN nASHVILLE ITSELF. i mET ONLY ONE REPUBLICAN. |
| 07:01.18 | Epyon | Damn Caps. |
| 07:01.23 | DTRemenak | there's this great key on the keyboard, Epyon... :P |
| 07:01.31 | jude- | ...but you were one of the few who spoke against bush? |
| 07:01.41 | Epyon | DTRemenak, yeah I noticed :P |
| 07:02.03 | Epyon | jude-, right after Spet 11 everyone was shocked. |
| 07:02.18 | jude- | ahhh...I wasn't thinking in the right temporal context |
| 07:02.26 | Epyon | Nobody wanted to believe that America had anything to do with it. |
| 07:02.41 | DTRemenak | and fwiw, SCOTUS judges can be impeached and convicted by congress, but it's generally not done |
| 07:04.20 | jude- | wow |
| 07:04.36 | jude- | I bet 9/11 was especially stressful |
| 07:04.37 | Epyon | Next flight was Sept 11th through New York if he had missed it. |
| 07:05.08 | Epyon | I was just enrolling into Highschool when it happened :P |
| 07:05.12 | L4m3r | I don't think the US had much to do with the attacks (aside from negligence in preventing it), just because the retaliation was so... wrong |
| 07:05.29 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: think provocation, not collusion |
| 07:05.38 | L4m3r | well of course |
| 07:05.52 | L4m3r | but that shouldn't surprise anyone |
| 07:06.02 | DTRemenak | jude-: of course they will |
| 07:06.08 | DTRemenak | conspiracy theorists love to talk |
| 07:06.18 | jude- | and it's illegal to shut them up |
| 07:06.48 | DTRemenak | thank goodness |
| 07:06.54 | jude- | ...not that I would even condone that, of course |
| 07:07.39 | jude- | freedom of speech far outweights the "penalty" of putting up with conspiracy theorists |
| 07:07.46 | DTRemenak | indeed |
| 07:08.26 | *** join/#bzflag TylerM (n=TylerM@osgeo/member/TylerM) |
| 07:08.29 | jude- | ...although the running joke among some of my friends is that the reason the US has so many social problems is because dueling was made illegal :P |
| 07:08.55 | jude- | i.e. "you can't shoot the d*nm bastard and be done with it" |
| 07:08.58 | DTRemenak | there's a certain amount of truth to that |
| 07:09.02 | DTRemenak | but it's not that |
| 07:09.13 | jude- | like I said, it's just a joke |
| 07:09.19 | DTRemenak | it's more "I'm gonna be polite to this guy, 'cause if I'm not, he might shoot me" |
| 07:09.30 | Epyon | Oil. |
| 07:09.36 | Epyon | And weapons. |
| 07:09.52 | jude- | what about them? |
| 07:09.53 | Epyon | That;s the real reason for all the wars :) |
| 07:09.53 | DTRemenak | and that attitude of, let's say, forced civility and humility, is totally missing in today's environment |
| 07:10.04 | jude- | more generally, it's natural resources |
| 07:10.11 | DTRemenak | Epyon: not true...food and land are other common causes ;) |
| 07:10.12 | Epyon | jude-, yep. |
| 07:10.21 | DTRemenak | "we need breathing room" |
| 07:10.30 | Epyon | There are no "honour" nor "democracy" rules. |
| 07:10.32 | jude- | US citizens don't |
| 07:10.43 | Epyon | It's all about natural resources. |
| 07:10.44 | DTRemenak | jude-: wasn't saying we did |
| 07:10.56 | Epyon | I don't believe in war for any other reason. |
| 07:11.07 | L4m3r | it's remarkable that China, which is almost completely devoid of any resources other than labor, has become so powerful without any huge wars |
| 07:11.32 | Epyon | Labour is a HUGE resource, |
| 07:11.34 | L4m3r | oh, definitely |
| 07:11.35 | DTRemenak | jude-: a certain dictator (avoiding Godwin's law) said that the germans did |
| 07:11.56 | jude- | said that the germans did....what? |
| 07:12.03 | DTRemenak | needed breathing room |
| 07:12.19 | jude- | the Germans needed a stable economy |
| 07:12.27 | L4m3r | the ironic thing about China is that any increase in their general standard of living is detrimental to that labor resource |
| 07:12.29 | jude- | they were left with the WWI war bill |
| 07:12.47 | DTRemenak | they were given one, by the nazis |
| 07:13.15 | DTRemenak | it's what said party did with that economy afterwards that's where it gets nasty :) |
| 07:13.21 | jude- | I mean, Germany was forced by the victors of WWI to pay for almost the entire expense of the war |
| 07:13.45 | jude- | that's partly what allowed the Nazis to gain power--they promised the general, uneducated public a better life |
| 07:13.56 | jude- | ...and they eliminated the educated and the questioners |
| 07:14.05 | jude- | ...so there'd be no dissent |
| 07:14.12 | L4m3r | well, yeah, it's only fair that the instigator should pay, but it's also rather cruel :P |
| 07:14.33 | jude- | L4m3r: professors, teachers, scientists...they were among the first to go to concentration/death camps |
| 07:14.38 | jude- | for that reason |
| 07:14.46 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: hm...Germany the instigator of WWI? |
| 07:15.06 | L4m3r | well, and Austria, correct? |
| 07:15.11 | DTRemenak | Germany just followed it's signed treaties |
| 07:15.26 | L4m3r | probably moreso austria... but didn't they pay also? |
| 07:15.29 | DTRemenak | Austria and Russia caused all the problems |
| 07:15.30 | jude- | technically, it was a lone assassin |
| 07:15.34 | jude- | from Serbia |
| 07:15.41 | DTRemenak | Austria was split up after the war |
| 07:15.52 | Epyon | Remeber though, it's just the Nazis not the Germans themselves. |
| 07:16.10 | jude- | Epyon: indeed |
| 07:16.26 | Epyon | I know it sounds wierd coming from a Pole. |
| 07:16.35 | jude- | it doesn't... |
| 07:16.39 | DTRemenak | indeed. that's one of the points I was trying to make...during WW2, the allied propaganda machines painted Germany as the villains in WWI, when they were more of just on the wrong side |
| 07:16.42 | Epyon | But I lived in Germany for two years. |
| 07:17.36 | DTRemenak | mmm, Epyon is a well-traveled one :) |
| 07:17.42 | jude- | Epyon: it still doesn't sound weird--any person literate in WWII history would know that the Nazis, not necessarily all Germans, are mainly responsible for WWII in Europe |
| 07:17.48 | Epyon | TRUE it's the Germans that Nazis came from. And thats a part of their philosophy that bred them. But Yet, Germans as a netion can't be blamed. |
| 07:18.12 | L4m3r | Germany is very sensitive about that even now |
| 07:18.23 | DTRemenak | indeed |
| 07:18.29 | Epyon | I know, L4m3r. I lived among them. |
| 07:18.31 | Epyon | Yet... |
| 07:18.32 | jude- | sadly, there seems to be increasing popularity in new-nazi groups |
| 07:18.53 | DTRemenak | overly sensitive, imho...to the point of clamping down on free speech, making it a taboo subject...and everyone knows how popular taboo subjects are. |
| 07:19.10 | Epyon | Yet imagine guys, that there are Germans that demand payment from the Polish goverment for War-casualties. Isn't that sick? |
| 07:19.19 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:19.24 | jude- | quite |
| 07:19.58 | jude- | good night L4m3r |
| 07:19.59 | Epyon | I have many german friends. Yet such things make me... laugh. |
| 07:20.04 | L4m3r | g'night everyone. I can't stay up late anymore :( |
| 07:20.10 | Epyon | G'night L4m3r :) |
| 07:20.20 | DTRemenak | 'night L4m3r |
| 07:20.36 | Epyon | It's 9:20 ion the morning here xP |
| 07:20.46 | jude- | ...and you haven't slept yet? |
| 07:20.50 | Epyon | Nope :P |
| 07:20.52 | jude- | dang |
| 07:20.57 | Epyon | I'm a child of the night :P |
| 07:21.13 | Epyon | It's my nature. |
| 07:21.16 | DTRemenak | jude-: schedules get a bit wierd during soc sometimes anyway |
| 07:21.23 | jude- | heh |
| 07:21.26 | Epyon | DTRemenak :D |
| 07:21.58 | Epyon | I'm a US compatible beast as far as SOC timezones go xP |
| 07:22.18 | jude- | you shouldn't have to worry about that though |
| 07:22.28 | jude- | ...if you don't want to |
| 07:22.34 | Epyon | jude-, it's just my nature :P |
| 07:22.39 | DTRemenak | nope, you don't need to |
| 07:22.52 | DTRemenak | but it is nice to work when the relevant people are around |
| 07:22.57 | Epyon | I'm most productive between 11 PM and 4AM xP |
| 07:23.11 | DTRemenak | I had no other schedule to keep track of |
| 07:23.20 | DTRemenak | so I just adjusted mine to France's, and was done with it :) |
| 07:23.34 | jude- | heh |
| 07:23.42 | DTRemenak | Epyon: see, you're up late...time for bed! :P |
| 07:23.44 | Epyon | it's 9:23 here now :P |
| 07:24.10 | Epyon | What time is it in the US? |
| 07:24.11 | DTRemenak | used to keep jude-'s hours, but then I got this job thing :P |
| 07:24.15 | Epyon | 2:24? |
| 07:24.17 | jude- | and it's only 00:30 :( |
| 07:24.19 | DTRemenak | 12:24 here (PDT) |
| 07:24.34 | DTRemenak | 3:24 on the other coast |
| 07:24.43 | jude- | heh--GMT - 8:00 here |
| 07:24.45 | Epyon | It would be 2:24 in Tennessee AFAIK |
| 07:24.52 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 07:25.02 | Epyon | jude-, where do you live?> |
| 07:25.06 | jude- | Arizona |
| 07:25.12 | jude- | Tucson, Arizona |
| 07:25.16 | DTRemenak | arizona, the land of the shifting timezones |
| 07:25.28 | jude- | we don't shift; everyone else does |
| 07:25.29 | Epyon | So it's... how late there? |
| 07:25.30 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:25.35 | DTRemenak | it's all relative, jude- :P |
| 07:25.44 | jude- | Epyon: right now it's GMT-8 |
| 07:25.49 | jude- | 00:30 |
| 07:26.03 | DTRemenak | from our perspective AZ is in PDT have the year and MST the other half |
| 07:26.08 | Epyon | Aaaah, early evening by my standards xP |
| 07:26.20 | DTRemenak | from yours we shift relative to UTC |
| 07:26.32 | DTRemenak | from -8 to -7 and back |
| 07:26.45 | Epyon | xP |
| 07:26.47 | jude- | right--you adjust your clocks twice a year, and we don't |
| 07:26.51 | DTRemenak | exactly |
| 07:27.05 | DTRemenak | therefore your color changes on the timezone map twice a year :P |
| 07:27.20 | jude- | well...the Navajo nation shifts, IIRC |
| 07:27.28 | Epyon | Well, I opened another beer so I will have to stay up until it's finished. |
| 07:27.33 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:27.47 | DTRemenak | by that rule you will drink untill you have passed out :) |
| 07:28.15 | Epyon | Nah, since I was 18 I didn't manage to pass out because of beer :/ |
| 07:28.29 | DTRemenak | bet you could if you tried :P |
| 07:28.36 | DTRemenak | not that I'm suggesting it |
| 07:28.36 | Epyon | My stomach gives up earlier than my head in the case of beer :/ |
| 07:28.39 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 07:28.50 | Epyon | It gives up about the 11th beer. |
| 07:28.56 | jude- | that's good--kills less brain cells |
| 07:29.26 | Epyon | That's why I like beer == I'll never go over the edge with it :) |
| 07:30.30 | jude- | it's a dumb law, IMHO |
| 07:30.34 | jude- | it isn't stopping anyone |
| 07:30.39 | Epyon | You can drink beer when you're 16. In Tennessee thatwas risen to 21 xP |
| 07:30.40 | DTRemenak | indeed |
| 07:30.58 | Epyon | Yeah, I drank a lot in the US, despite being 18 xP |
| 07:31.05 | jude- | ...not that I would...personally I can barely down a sip of champaign without it burning |
| 07:31.21 | DTRemenak | I never had any trouble obtaining alcohol if I wanted it (usually didn't though) |
| 07:31.35 | DTRemenak | had it handed to me on occasion even |
| 07:31.53 | Epyon | I like getting drunk from time to time. It helps me focus on the things that are really important. |
| 07:32.11 | DTRemenak | wow, that is so screwed up :P |
| 07:32.22 | Epyon | Not "passout" drunk though :P |
| 07:33.02 | jude- | Epyon: it's 21 everywhere in the US |
| 07:33.40 | jude- | see you all in 12-ish hours |
| 07:33.44 | DTRemenak | g'night jude- |
| 07:33.55 | Epyon | But basically it helps setting up priorities. If you have the suspicion that you're lying to yourself -- get drunk. You'll be true to thyself, at least for a short period. |
| 07:34.03 | Epyon | That surprisingly helos. |
| 07:34.09 | Epyon | helps* |
| 07:34.35 | DTRemenak | meh, I prefer to remain in control of my facilities |
| 07:35.23 | Epyon | Me too. Generally. |
| 07:35.46 | Epyon | But I know that I won't do anything stupid when drunk. |
| 07:35.59 | DTRemenak | famous last words |
| 07:36.16 | Epyon | But too many times I feel that I'm lying to myself. |
| 07:36.34 | Epyon | Especialy in case of girls. |
| 07:37.33 | Epyon | Paradoxically, "reason" is not the best advice you can get there :/ |
| 07:37.38 | DTRemenak | granted |
| 07:38.37 | Epyon | But it's true -- if you want to get advice from your drunken state, you need to know how to handle your alcohol :P |
| 07:39.52 | Epyon | This seems one of the advantages we Eastern Europeans have over Americans -- we know how to handle our alcohol quite early :PPPPP |
| 07:40.30 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 07:40.46 | Epyon | The question is wether it's something we can be proud of... But I guess this is a matter of culture :) |
| 07:41.15 | DTRemenak | natural selection, I suppose...many many generations of drinking large quantities of alcohol, versus puritanism and prohibition :) |
| 07:42.06 | Epyon | The funny thing is that Americans are more Moraly Ambivalent the Europeans then :P |
| 07:42.38 | DTRemenak | which is sad |
| 07:43.01 | Epyon | At least that's my personal opinion -- it's easier to get a ONS in America than in Europe :P |
| 07:43.51 | DTRemenak | ONS...Office of National Statistics? |
| 07:44.17 | Epyon | ONS, One night stand xP |
| 07:44.17 | DTRemenak | well I'll agree MOST statistics are immoral, but that's stretching it a bit :P |
| 07:44.17 | DTRemenak | ahhh, heh |
| 07:44.42 | DTRemenak | I suppose it depends whether you're willing to pay for it or not...in many european countries prostitution is legal |
| 07:45.00 | Epyon | I'm talking about the free one :P |
| 07:45.02 | DTRemenak | so I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy |
| 07:45.04 | Constitution | Don't believe everything you see in movies :-P |
| 07:45.43 | DTRemenak | and I wouldn't know, never tried myself |
| 07:45.44 | Epyon | I had 4 ONS's in America, and just 2 in Europe. I lived 1 year in US and the rest of my life in EU :P |
| 07:47.28 | DTRemenak | well, it's time for me to go to bed. g'night |
| 07:47.40 | Epyon | But it's true, I'm biased. |
| 07:47.40 | DTRemenak | nice chatting with ya. |
| 07:47.48 | Epyon | With you too :) |
| 07:47.58 | Epyon | I'm off to bed too xP |
| 07:48.03 | DTRemenak | at last :P |
| 07:48.13 | Epyon | If Americans go to bed, that's high time for me xP |
| 07:48.19 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 07:48.57 | Epyon | Talk about "safety catch" xP |
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| 08:26.04 | TylerM | @seen blast007 |
| 08:26.14 | TylerM | !seen blah |
| 08:26.15 | TylerM | ? |
| 08:26.21 | TylerM | no seen bot? |
| 08:27.13 | brad | ~seen blast007 |
| 08:27.15 | ibot | blast007 is currently on #bzflag (4d 9h 30m 58s). Has said a total of 312 messages. Is idling for 4h 27m 32s, last said: 'that's not helpful'. |
| 08:27.22 | Pimpi | ~seen blast007 |
| 08:27.23 | ibot | blast007 is currently on #bzflag (4d 9h 31m 6s). Has said a total of 312 messages. Is idling for 4h 27m 40s, last said: 'that's not helpful'. |
| 08:27.37 | Pimpi | too slow |
| 08:27.40 | brad | :) |
| 08:30.31 | TylerM | gr8 thx |
| 08:32.18 | Rawk | ~seen daniel_jackson |
| 08:32.19 | ibot | daniel_jackson <n=bsanford@cpe-24-25-198-254.san.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 22d 1h 7m 58s ago, saying: 'well thanks for the info guys, cya'. |
| 08:32.24 | *** join/#bzflag Animator000 (n=Matt@219-90-178-196.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 08:36.19 | TylerM | he's in [bloodbath] right now |
| 08:36.38 | TylerM | trying to play + admin at same time - heh |
| 08:38.21 | Constitution | he's on #divi here too |
| 08:44.33 | Rawk | who? blast007, or daniel_jackson? |
| 08:44.40 | Constitution | daniel_jackson |
| 08:45.04 | Rawk | oh, cool I'll join.... |
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| 11:17.55 | daxxar | Yawn |
| 11:19.54 | daxxar | xasd[B/wg brlcad |
| 11:37.15 | daxxar | Woot |
| 11:48.36 | daxxar | Oh well, later people. :-) |
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| 13:22.24 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14542 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/Makefile.am: |
| 13:22.24 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: this is what I'd meant. building a .so directly is not portable (some plats |
| 13:22.25 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: don't use .so files) so you go through libtool. if you make TestRobot.la, it |
| 13:22.25 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: will build the module on-demand putting the .so in the .libs directory until |
| 13:22.25 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: installation time (for which EXTRA_ also means don't install it). |
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| 13:53.06 | ruskie | hmm I fell asleep while playing... |
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| 15:00.04 | JeffM | damn...now I have to do my driver upgrades all over again :( |
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| 16:48.06 | brlcad | wow |
| 16:49.06 | brlcad | so now that I've got the font sizing matching and it's actually rendering the ansi effects correctly (that is to say, it's pretty much doing almost the same exact work now) |
| 16:49.11 | brlcad | I have different performance numbers |
| 16:49.34 | brlcad | full screen ftgl with radar: 106 without radar: 146 |
| 16:49.55 | brlcad | full screen old with radar: 108 without radar: 150 |
| 16:53.46 | purple_cow | mornin' brlcad |
| 16:54.02 | brlcad | howdy |
| 17:02.20 | brlcad | purple_cow: so any insider info on that ipo? :-) |
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| 17:02.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 17:03.28 | purple_cow | only a little ;) |
| 17:03.54 | purple_cow | they're taking pretty good care not to tell us anything |
| 17:05.35 | brlcad | ahh |
| 17:05.36 | brlcad | no fun |
| 17:10.30 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14543 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: pulsating text only pulsates if the menu is overlayed |
| 17:21.03 | Winny | wow |
| 17:21.09 | Winny | vista really seems to hate BZ |
| 17:24.44 | brlcad | another shadow/face bug of some sort, http://bzflag.bz/tmp/bug.png .. flickers in and out |
| 18:01.20 | blast007 | Winny: how so? |
| 18:01.25 | blast007 | it runs fine on my vista laptop |
| 18:02.19 | Winny | just seems like people are running into alot of problems with it in general |
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| 18:11.10 | donny_baker | Winny: there are configuration settings in Vista that can affect performance |
| 18:11.18 | donny_baker | Winny: but not just with BZ |
| 18:11.26 | Winny | indeed |
| 18:11.56 | donny_baker | your performance BZ or not BZ will suck even if they are not right :P |
| 18:12.01 | Winny | it just seems... weird. You figure a newer OS would have better default ssupport. |
| 18:12.31 | donny_baker | there is a network tuning setting that can actually make you network look like it is running with cans and string :P |
| 18:12.37 | donny_baker | i agree |
| 18:12.44 | blast007 | Winny: Vista uses 500MB of RAM to just sit at the desktop |
| 18:12.49 | Winny | o.O |
| 18:12.51 | blast007 | and that's after I closed a couple things |
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| 19:35.47 | Chestal | someone available for a quick test, someone which can get fps > 500 on simple maps? |
| 19:36.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14544 10/branches/ftgl/src/3D/FontManager.cxx: (log message trimmed) |
| 19:36.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: yipee! the new FontManager work should now be complete and ready for |
| 19:36.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: evaluation/profiling/comparisons. this fixes the ansi code string processing |
| 19:36.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: (thx to DTRemenak for pointing out my len snafu) and adds back functionality for |
| 19:36.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: colors and underlining that needed tweaking with the different font metrics (now |
| 19:36.34 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: the underline has to be nudged below the baseline which is now above the descent |
| 19:36.36 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: instead of below it (coordinate-wise)). also chose to change the drawing of the |
| 19:36.53 | brlcad | Chestal: that's a lot of folks if you hit 'q' to turn off the radar ;) |
| 19:37.28 | Chestal | one is enough for me :-) |
| 19:37.40 | brlcad | I think I can, where to? |
| 19:38.08 | Chestal | ducati.bzflag.org 59998 |
| 19:38.40 | brlcad | ducati maps arn'et simple, they are just deceivingly complex ;) |
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| 19:55.37 | Chestal | learner: opt is the default, isn't it?at least -O2 |
| 19:56.22 | brlcad | I mean something better, but yeah it is at least O2 |
| 19:56.34 | brlcad | though other plats (like linux) add other flags that the mac build doesn't add |
| 19:57.24 | Chestal | I have -ffast-math |
| 19:58.05 | Chestal | and an ooold graphics card. But I guess it's quite fast at the basic stuff |
| 19:58.13 | Chestal | 9600XT |
| 19:59.39 | Chestal | brlcad: you could of course comment out the rendering or something :-) |
| 20:01.26 | brlcad | heh, yeah |
| 20:01.56 | brlcad | don't think I was using ffast-math though |
| 20:02.09 | Chestal | I wouldn't expect too much from it, but who knows |
| 20:02.17 | brlcad | trying first with just a slew of other optimizations (in case it's not card-limited) |
| 20:02.40 | brlcad | ffast-math was causing other problems a while back, so I wouldn't rule it out |
| 20:02.55 | Chestal | I am actuayl surprised that the apparent speed value is so constant for most players I observed |
| 20:02.58 | brlcad | it was getting things past some floating point tolerance tests |
| 20:03.10 | Chestal | because it is calced based on receiving client timestamps |
| 20:03.15 | Chestal | so jitter should affect it |
| 20:03.23 | brlcad | most don't have much/any jitter |
| 20:03.47 | blast007 | easy to make it though :) (P2P apps) |
| 20:04.08 | Chestal | blast007: my aim is somethgn different at the moment, though :-) |
| 20:04.12 | brlcad | well if chestal would just stop using his cheat client, there wouldn't be a problem right? :) |
| 20:04.19 | blast007 | hehe |
| 20:04.37 | Chestal | blast007: if you get anyxwhere clsoe to 1000fps feel free to join |
| 20:04.47 | blast007 | I can |
| 20:04.53 | blast007 | but at home (still at work) |
| 20:05.07 | Chestal | blast007: but but, it's weekend! |
| 20:05.07 | blast007 | I was getting 1300 FPS on some maps |
| 20:05.16 | Chestal | blast007: perfect |
| 20:05.22 | brlcad | blgo home! |
| 20:05.26 | brlcad | what are you doing at work anyways |
| 20:05.33 | blast007 | I work on saturdays :) |
| 20:05.40 | blast007 | and have mondays off |
| 20:06.19 | blast007 | and what am I doing here? talking on IRC apparently |
| 20:06.41 | brlcad | it's called research |
| 20:06.47 | brlcad | that's what you're doing, training |
| 20:06.52 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:07.21 | brlcad | blast007: do you have a compile of head at home too? |
| 20:07.36 | blast007 | I had, but I deleted it |
| 20:07.47 | blast007 | not too hard to make again |
| 20:08.10 | Chestal | brlcad: let me see what kind of fps I get with head |
| 20:08.15 | brlcad | yeah, I also need someone with a high(er than mine) framerate to test the new fonts |
| 20:08.22 | blast007 | ah, k |
| 20:08.32 | blast007 | I could see about that too |
| 20:09.01 | brlcad | i'm seeing at most a 2% difference at the moment, but don't know if that's linear to other rates |
| 20:09.15 | brlcad | got a new optimizing client, Chestal .. rejoining |
| 20:09.34 | Chestal | ok |
| 20:17.58 | brlcad | so show anything interesting? |
| 20:18.13 | Chestal | not really |
| 20:18.29 | Chestal | when I was using max of last 3 minutes I saw some 27s and 30s for you |
| 20:18.40 | brlcad | was getting around 500-600 most of the time |
| 20:18.42 | Chestal | now I am down to 0.5s and biggest I saw was about 25.2 |
| 20:18.54 | Chestal | when I am at 400fps myself |
| 20:18.56 | brlcad | i get about 650 on ducati |
| 20:19.07 | Chestal | when I use vsync, the value is much more stable, almost always 25.01 at most |
| 20:19.22 | Chestal | cannot say I fully understand it |
| 20:19.40 | brlcad | the bad thing, though, is that the max at least shouldn't change at all |
| 20:19.43 | Chestal | but obviosuly you are not too fast anyway or the server woudl have kicked you |
| 20:19.57 | brlcad | are you comparing straight-line driving or accelating back and forth? |
| 20:20.12 | Chestal | I haven#t change the calculation |
| 20:20.31 | Chestal | it is simply sqrt(dx*dx+dy*dy) / dt |
| 20:20.31 | brlcad | I can see lots of back and forth causing big accelerations, same problem as ME |
| 20:20.46 | Chestal | where dt here is local timestamps of observer |
| 20:21.11 | Chestal | only change I made was to use tick time now instead of current time |
| 20:21.14 | Chestal | current time makes no sense |
| 20:21.31 | Chestal | because the vlaue then depends on when the text is rendered |
| 20:21.41 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:21.59 | Chestal | of course with the tick time it should be affected by jitter |
| 20:22.22 | Chestal | as far as I know the time stamps of the senders isn#t used at all in the clients |
| 20:22.37 | Chestal | pentagon server is patched to use those to check for speeding, though |
| 20:22.47 | Chestal | so it isn#t affected by jitter at all |
| 20:22.57 | JeffM | Chestal, on 2.0.x it isn't on trunk it is |
| 20:24.19 | Chestal | JeffM: in ways unknown to me, I haven't looked. What I am doing right now is using the apparentspeed value resp. the corresponding timestmap in playerstate |
| 20:24.31 | brlcad | JeffM: see my notes earlier about fonts? |
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| 20:24.45 | JeffM | brlcad, I glanced |
| 20:24.48 | brlcad | it's all done now :) |
| 20:24.49 | JeffM | Chestal, in what version? |
| 20:24.50 | brlcad | goodness |
| 20:24.54 | *** part/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@88-108-138-185.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:25.25 | Chestal | JeffM: 2.0 |
| 20:26.17 | Chestal | JeffM: my aim is to be able to see players who move too fast although their speed value is normal in the extended observer info |
| 20:26.54 | JeffM | ahh, 2.0 I can not offer any advice then ;) |
| 20:27.11 | Chestal | brlcad: hmm, we could do one more test |
| 20:27.39 | Chestal | brlcad: src/bzflag/BaseLocalPlayer.cxx, line 56. chaneg the 0.001 to 0.01 or so |
| 20:27.50 | Chestal | that should give you problems with anythign >100fps already |
| 20:30.26 | brlcad | done |
| 20:30.43 | Chestal | ok, pentagon again please |
| 20:30.47 | Chestal | prepare to get kicked :-) |
| 20:31.54 | brlcad | yep, nearly instant |
| 20:32.12 | Chestal | ok, ducati.bzflag.org 59998 then |
| 20:44.08 | brlcad | nearly a 20% increase |
| 20:46.54 | Chestal | ah, hmm, I see now why the value is not all that useful |
| 20:47.45 | Chestal | it is updated each time the dead reckoning position update is done, thus every frame. It is _not_ based on received positions only |
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| 21:41.48 | Winny | guh, where on the wiki is a list of uploaded files? |
| 21:43.22 | DTRemenak | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Special:Imagelist |
| 21:43.59 | DTRemenak | looks like you missed a "g" in that last one :P |
| 21:44.23 | Winny | yeah :p |
| 21:44.39 | Winny | I was like "why isn't this loading?" :p |
| 21:50.39 | brlcad | DTRemenak: ftgl is done, and working sweet :) |
| 21:50.48 | DTRemenak | cool! |
| 21:51.09 | brlcad | performance changed quite a bit too |
| 21:52.35 | DTRemenak | changed in a good way or bad? |
| 21:52.52 | brlcad | in that they are both almost spot on, about a 2% difference.. still looking for results of testing that on low and high fps systems though |
| 21:54.04 | brlcad | e.g. 106 ftgl, 108 current.. turn off radar and that jumps to 146 and 150 respectively, so pretty consistent |
| 21:54.16 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 21:54.54 | Chestal | brlcad: do you see a difference between transparent and fully opaque radar/console? |
| 21:55.35 | Chestal | IIRC when opaque the console does only refresh when the text changes |
| 21:55.37 | brlcad | a difference in absolute performance, yes, but relative no |
| 21:55.58 | brlcad | ahhh, that probably explains why pulsing wasn't working unless the menu was up |
| 21:56.41 | Chestal | yes, it's an optimization. Debatable whether it shoudl automatically switch off when you activate pulsing |
| 21:57.08 | Chestal | I needed that back then even with the bitmap font renderer :-) |
| 21:57.35 | Chestal | with software rendering the text rendering has a huge performance impact |
| 21:59.24 | Chestal | brlcad: have you kept the same interface to the font rendering classes and only changed the backend? |
| 21:59.45 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:00.18 | brlcad | it was a drop-in replacement, just had to fix the guts to FontManager->drawString() |
| 22:00.24 | brlcad | and loading/unloading, etc |
| 22:00.41 | Winny | yay, new wiki page :--P |
| 22:01.45 | Chestal | gah, someone's parallel job here seems to create dozens if not hundreds of short-lived files in the nfs-mounted home directory |
| 22:01.59 | Chestal | server is sloooow |
| 22:05.32 | *** join/#bzflag fiveofoh (n=joel@dsl-205-134-214-138.lacey-1.reachoneinternet.net) |
| 22:16.29 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 22:16.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 22:21.10 | *** join/#bzflag TylerM (n=TylerM@S01060016cbba5f08.ca.shawcable.net) |
| 22:23.03 | Winny | donny_baker: pingy |
| 22:25.10 | donny_baker | Winny: pongy |
| 22:27.50 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) |
| 22:27.55 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 22:28.30 | donny_baker | yep current one 128x105 |
| 22:29.20 | Winny | k, thanks :) |
| 22:29.38 | Winny | (donny is telepathic so he can tell what I was going to ask) :p |
| 22:31.15 | donny_baker | winny... JeffM doesn't HATE you.... |
| 22:31.16 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) |
| 22:31.31 | Winny | haha |
| 22:31.33 | donny_baker | oh, i don't think i was supposed to read that thought :P |
| 22:32.14 | spldart | Who finds who attractive 8-0!?!?! Should I be knowing this?@! |
| 22:33.24 | Winny | tannerld: lemme fix that for you |
| 22:33.37 | Winny | "tannerld wonders who went crazier while he was gone" |
| 22:33.47 | spldart | No beer and no tv make homer something something |
| 22:33.50 | tannerld | yep that makes more sense |
| 22:34.57 | Winny | no beer and Tv make homer GO CRAZY!!! |
| 22:38.04 | *** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.185.128) |
| 23:02.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
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| 23:10.43 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A509A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:20.31 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 23:20.55 | Macrosoft | has R3lax been on today? |
| 23:22.16 | L4m3r | ~seen R3lax |
| 23:22.18 | ibot | r3lax <n=k3y@ool-18ba88d9.dyn.optonline.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 45d 21h 41m 23s ago, saying: 'F12'. |
| 23:22.24 | L4m3r | nope |
| 23:24.14 | Macrosoft | 45d? he was here yesterday |
| 23:24.31 | Macrosoft | ~lart ibot |
| 23:24.31 | ibot | shoots macrosoft in the head |
| 23:25.08 | L4m3r | ~botsnack |
| 23:25.08 | ibot | thanks, L4m3r |
| 23:25.15 | Macrosoft | ibot needs to fix his ~seen |
| 23:26.49 | tannerld | whats wrong with it? |
| 23:26.52 | Macrosoft | are there any big changes to src/bzfs/commands.cxx from 2.0.8 to 2.0.9? |
| 23:27.00 | JeffM | no |
| 23:27.09 | JeffM | 9 has no major features |
| 23:28.00 | Macrosoft | ok, r3lax couldnt get the 2.0.8 version of it build with 2.0.9 |
| 23:28.36 | JeffM | 8 version of what? |
| 23:28.42 | JeffM | source files? |
| 23:28.45 | Macrosoft | yes |
| 23:28.55 | JeffM | why would he mix source files? |
| 23:29.06 | Macrosoft | because i dont have 2.0.9 |
| 23:29.19 | JeffM | so |
| 23:29.27 | Macrosoft | i was the one who edited the commands.cxx |
| 23:29.33 | JeffM | ohh, mods |
| 23:29.35 | JeffM | make a patch |
| 23:29.35 | Macrosoft | and sent it to him |
| 23:29.41 | JeffM | he can merge just the changes in |
| 23:30.01 | Macrosoft | patch? |
| 23:30.07 | JeffM | patch |
| 23:30.21 | JeffM | a patch is a diff of the canges |
| 23:30.29 | Macrosoft | .diff? |
| 23:30.30 | JeffM | then it'll jsut apply the changes you made to his file |
| 23:30.32 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:30.40 | JeffM | what did you change? |
| 23:30.43 | Macrosoft | oh, he still has to edit it himself |
| 23:30.48 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@mmds-216-19-24-101.mm.az.commspeed.net) |
| 23:30.55 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 23:31.07 | JeffM | no he'd apply the patch with patch and it'd merge in your changes |
| 23:31.34 | Macrosoft | is that an app? (patch) |
| 23:31.56 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:32.05 | JeffM | it's the reverse of diff |
| 23:32.12 | Macrosoft | while im still thinking about it, where do i get 2.0.9 source |
| 23:32.13 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 23:32.17 | JeffM | svn |
| 23:32.20 | Constitution | ~bz20svn |
| 23:32.21 | ibot | well, bz20svn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ bzflag |
| 23:32.24 | JeffM | svn will make the patches too |
| 23:33.38 | Macrosoft | where does it save it on my disk? |
| 23:33.48 | JeffM | whereever you tell it to |
| 23:33.52 | JeffM | read the docs on it map |
| 23:33.54 | JeffM | man |
| 23:34.07 | JeffM | what did you mod? |
| 23:34.41 | Macrosoft | made /say messages anonymous to everyone but admins |
| 23:35.02 | JeffM | you shoudl make that as a patch, and submit it to SF |
| 23:35.07 | JeffM | as it sounds like a good change |
| 23:35.23 | Macrosoft | i think mofo has it too |
| 23:36.25 | donny_baker | I like it better |
| 23:37.45 | JeffM | so even then that should be a small change to the file right? |
| 23:37.58 | JeffM | if you can't make a diff for a patch, just tell him what to mod |
| 23:39.12 | Macrosoft | i think it was something on his system that kept it from building |
| 23:39.37 | JeffM | he was able to build before moding that file? |
| 23:40.21 | Macrosoft | dont know |
| 23:42.09 | JeffM | that's where you should have started, before even going down the line of questioning the command file |
| 23:45.37 | Macrosoft | which version will this get me: svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag |
| 23:45.55 | JeffM | 2.1 |
| 23:46.11 | JeffM | did you read the wiki page on it? |
| 23:52.36 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=BZ_Win_@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:54.37 | Macrosoft | so this is the right one then? svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag |
| 23:57.19 | JeffM | that's the one the wiki says is for 2.0.x compatabile branch isn't it? |
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