| 00:05.40 | *** join/#bzflag Tannerld (n=Tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:08.20 | *** join/#bzflag tuxinator_linux (n=tuxinato@128.187.169.195) |
| 00:10.13 | *** kick/#bzflag [a_meteorite!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (he said it was over, obey the bovine) |
| 00:13.20 | Tannerld | ? |
| 00:14.11 | CBG | ty. |
| 00:16.47 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 00:16.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:17.23 | TheRedBaron | phear the bovine |
| 00:17.32 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: its Obey the Fist |
| 00:19.19 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: yeah, though it wasn't clear who knows a reference from that far back |
| 00:20.13 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@ppp-67-126-131-7.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:21.44 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: thats the problem with nostalgia :) |
| 00:22.55 | brlcad | I was out in your neighborhood a couple weeks ago again, though with even less time this time than last |
| 00:23.06 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: really? |
| 00:23.09 | brlcad | only there for a day, in and out |
| 00:23.14 | TheRedBaron | what part? |
| 00:23.27 | brlcad | down around Eglin |
| 00:23.54 | TheRedBaron | ah, air force base |
| 00:24.14 | brlcad | was in destin |
| 00:24.23 | brlcad | got about 20 minutes away from panama city |
| 00:24.50 | brlcad | it was a really short trip though, didn't even get to touch sand |
| 00:25.05 | TheRedBaron | sucks |
| 00:25.10 | TheRedBaron | destin is beautiful |
| 00:26.11 | brlcad | a little bit nicer than fort walton beach where I was last time... :) |
| 00:26.54 | TheRedBaron | destin is about 3hrs west of me, when you have more time, let me know :) |
| 00:28.36 | brlcad | jacksonville? |
| 00:28.47 | TheRedBaron | 3 hrs east of me :) |
| 00:28.52 | brlcad | heh, k |
| 00:29.21 | TheRedBaron | orange once passed right through the center of my town, |
| 00:37.52 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 00:37.54 | a_meteorite | brlcad: wtf? |
| 00:38.01 | a_meteorite | I did obey him, read up. |
| 00:38.07 | a_meteorite | And CBG was just as much a part of it. |
| 00:38.44 | biggeruniverse | ~a_metorite-- |
| 00:38.58 | biggeruniverse | ~a_meteorite-- |
| 00:38.59 | a_meteorite | ~biggeruniverse-- |
| 00:39.00 | biggeruniverse | oops |
| 00:39.07 | biggeruniverse | ~karma |
| 00:39.07 | ibot | biggeruniverse has karma of 1 |
| 00:39.11 | biggeruniverse | whee! |
| 00:39.16 | a_meteorite | ~biggeruniverse-- |
| 00:39.21 | biggeruniverse | ~karma |
| 00:39.21 | ibot | biggeruniverse has neutral karma |
| 00:39.30 | a_meteorite | ~biggeruniverse-- |
| 00:39.44 | biggeruniverse | can you get me down to around 300? |
| 00:39.46 | biggeruniverse | - |
| 00:41.11 | biggeruniverse | ~karma |
| 00:41.11 | ibot | biggeruniverse has karma of -1 |
| 00:41.33 | a_meteorite | brlcad: When did CBG get punished? |
| 00:41.41 | biggeruniverse | You weren't here then |
| 00:41.46 | a_meteorite | What happened? |
| 00:42.08 | a_meteorite | Something better have happened. I'm checking ibot's logs soon as they get published for today. |
| 00:42.15 | brlcad | the point was p_c said to stop and you didn't |
| 00:42.19 | a_meteorite | Did too. |
| 00:42.20 | biggeruniverse | I'll tell you when you're older |
| 00:42.21 | a_meteorite | Reread everything. |
| 00:42.34 | a_meteorite | Reread it over again, if you don't see that. |
| 00:43.00 | a_meteorite | And what about purple_cow only picking on me? He didn't say a word to CBG who was just as much a part of it. |
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| 00:43.42 | a_meteorite | Reread it again. |
| 00:43.48 | a_meteorite | That's your JOB. |
| 00:43.50 | a_meteorite | Be fair. |
| 00:43.51 | brlcad | perhaps because you instigated in the channel |
| 00:43.57 | a_meteorite | I did nothing of the sort. |
| 00:44.19 | a_meteorite | I said "CBG: yeah, except I can't say it here" and he got very offensive. |
| 00:45.06 | a_meteorite | If you don't apologize to me for singling me out, I am going to be very one unhappy camper. |
| 00:45.25 | brlcad | good luck with that |
| 00:45.32 | a_meteorite | You don't want to see me unhappy. |
| 00:45.42 | brlcad | now you're resorting to threats |
| 00:45.49 | brlcad | this is why you're getting attention |
| 00:46.02 | brlcad | this entire discussion from the point you started has been inappropriate |
| 00:46.03 | a_meteorite | That was not threatening, it is a matter of how you take it. |
| 00:46.25 | a_meteorite | No one wants to see me unhappy. I don't want to see you unhappy. I don't want to see others unhappy. |
| 00:46.46 | brlcad | you saying what I do and don't want to do is none of your concern, it's mine |
| 00:47.17 | *** join/#bzflag Tannerld (n=Tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:47.47 | Winny | If I had a range of moutains surrounding a map, what do you think the max poly count should be? |
| 00:47.49 | purple_cow | brlcad: don't let him suck you in =P |
| 00:48.05 | a_meteorite | I don't care what your concern is. |
| 00:48.05 | brlcad | i'd be glad to take this off the channel with you if you want to continue, but the original point was that this is off-topic and a dead-end conversation for the public channel |
| 00:48.14 | a_meteorite | I'm just saying you don't want to see me unhappy. |
| 00:48.22 | brlcad | just like I don't care if you're unhappy |
| 00:48.36 | a_meteorite | I don't care that you don't care. |
| 00:48.39 | brlcad | usually I do care, but not in this instance given your attitude/actions |
| 00:48.40 | a_meteorite | You just won't like it. |
| 00:50.15 | brlcad | purple_cow: I know, it was futile to begin with |
| 00:50.23 | brlcad | doesn't make it right to let it continue though |
| 00:54.08 | *** join/#bzflag JeffMFishBone (n=JeffM@cpe-76-83-1-187.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:54.37 | brlcad | for future reference, calling anyone a retard in the channel is unacceptible -- whether you personally consider it an insult or not -- take your personal issues private |
| 00:54.52 | a_meteorite | it wasn't a personal issue, it was a public issue, just for the record |
| 00:55.15 | brlcad | it doesn't matter *what* the issue is -- it's unacceptible period |
| 00:55.39 | a_meteorite | I'm just making it clear |
| 00:55.44 | brlcad | as am I |
| 00:55.54 | a_meteorite | because later something like this will come back to bite me and someone will say it was a private issue |
| 00:55.57 | a_meteorite | which it wasn't |
| 00:56.03 | rob1n | a_meteorite, would you like some friendly advice? |
| 00:56.11 | a_meteorite | only if it helps me |
| 00:56.21 | brlcad | calling anyone a "name" is a personal issue, from my perspective |
| 00:56.31 | brlcad | it doesn't involve me.. it involves the person you're characterizing |
| 00:56.36 | biggeruniverse | brlcad |
| 00:56.39 | rob1n | don't argue with those people who have ops. and sometimes you just need to drop something. |
| 00:56.49 | rob1n | IRC isn't a democracy :) |
| 00:57.03 | a_meteorite | dropping things has not advanced me |
| 00:57.20 | brlcad | nor is freedom of speech or channel attendance a given right |
| 00:58.21 | brlcad | i would say that this discussion hasn't advanced you in the least bit either, quite the contrary |
| 00:59.43 | a_meteorite | I just get lower and lower |
| 01:00.29 | biggeruniverse | It doesn't have to be that way, man. |
| 01:00.59 | Winny | ...anyone know? :p |
| 01:01.24 | biggeruniverse | Winny: I'm sitting here wishing that made any sense. |
| 01:01.33 | Winny | my question? |
| 01:01.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:01.40 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: well, I haven't got any better by doing the opposite |
| 01:01.41 | biggeruniverse | yes |
| 01:01.45 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: so what AM I supposed to do? |
| 01:01.51 | a_temp_dist | Winny - I think the best way to do that is with a skybox, not objects |
| 01:01.52 | Winny | "If I had a range of moutains surrounding a map, what do you think the max poly count should be?" that one? |
| 01:02.06 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: have you gotten any worse |
| 01:02.06 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 01:02.09 | Winny | a_temp_dist: the problem is, the players are on the mountains |
| 01:02.10 | Winny | kinda |
| 01:02.22 | rob1n | svn switch is amazing |
| 01:02.23 | a_meteorite | I wanted to bring my status higher, respect higher, but things keep continuiong to bring it down and I give up |
| 01:02.23 | a_temp_dist | oh!, it's ON the map? |
| 01:02.27 | Winny | yes |
| 01:02.40 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: up until you came on here at 6ish, I had a pretty good opinion of you |
| 01:02.50 | a_meteorite | that's surprising |
| 01:02.50 | Winny | I know I could use LOD, but I really don't know how (tho I can learn) |
| 01:03.00 | a_temp_dist | i dunno then - I don't think there's a max poly count, just the performace goes down as you get more |
| 01:03.02 | a_meteorite | I figured my reputation has already been trashed everywhere |
| 01:03.17 | Winny | hmm |
| 01:03.24 | Winny | I guess Ill have to do some performance testing |
| 01:03.25 | Winny | :D |
| 01:03.29 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: so what's your opinion of me now (PM me if you'd like)> |
| 01:03.42 | brlcad | actually, i would say that you were doing much better |
| 01:03.51 | a_temp_dist | Optic Delusion tried to get LOD working and found it isn't up to speed yet (iirc) |
| 01:03.55 | brlcad | cbg as well, not to center anyone out |
| 01:04.17 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: I'll tell you what man, this isn't the place to help you with your depression. You need to take care of that on your own. You can get respect here by being helpful. |
| 01:04.19 | brlcad | it's only when someone/_anyone_ "crosses the line" and retorts to insults, gets indignant, or doesn't listen to the ops in here that problems escalate |
| 01:04.41 | a_meteorite | depression? |
| 01:04.43 | a_meteorite | oi |
| 01:05.35 | brlcad | a_meteorite: I would have said the same about having had a fairly positive view or neutral at worst until this afternoon |
| 01:05.43 | a_meteorite | wow |
| 01:05.54 | a_meteorite | I'm.. flattered |
| 01:05.56 | biggeruniverse | If it's something else, well, if you can explain yourself maybe people will understand why you're lashing out. |
| 01:06.00 | brlcad | maybe you have a different reputation in other channels |
| 01:06.49 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: I don't know if brlcad would like me to explain myself... (though it incriminates both me and others) |
| 01:07.13 | biggeruniverse | Well, then here's the deal: being respected in IRC channels isn't all there is to life. |
| 01:07.16 | brlcad | there's no explanation needed, it really just increases the negative energy |
| 01:07.30 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: when you don't have any friends, it does |
| 01:07.52 | a_meteorite | anyways, I'm sorry about the whole blowing up thing, had a rough time, should take a walk, very sorry |
| 01:07.56 | *** part/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 01:08.03 | lodxcol | heh |
| 01:08.40 | brlcad | c'est la vie |
| 01:09.06 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:09.16 | biggeruniverse | that's the best kind of walk |
| 01:10.37 | *** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 01:11.32 | L4m3r | we're gonna have a nasty fire season this year :| |
| 01:12.29 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: quite true, I'm just feeling lazy to walk and making too much coding progress on a bzflag crash reporter.. :) |
| 01:12.49 | biggeruniverse | oh god |
| 01:14.21 | biggeruniverse | he's gone dude, leave him be |
| 01:14.51 | biggeruniverse | I finally figured out a way for bzflag client to live with dual procies |
| 01:15.57 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 01:18.02 | *** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 01:18.16 | TheRedBaron | biggeruniverse: as in? |
| 01:19.49 | biggeruniverse | As in processors have independent clocks, and an SMP OS without CPU-sticky processes causes time skews |
| 01:20.21 | TheRedBaron | but bz runs on dual cores and dual processors |
| 01:20.39 | biggeruniverse | have you tried it? |
| 01:20.51 | TheRedBaron | or you getting bz to actuall use dual cores/processors? |
| 01:20.54 | TheRedBaron | biggeruniverse: yup |
| 01:21.09 | TheRedBaron | two physical processesors, and dual core processors |
| 01:21.15 | biggeruniverse | and how did it run? |
| 01:21.19 | TheRedBaron | granted my OS is windows |
| 01:21.23 | brlcad | running on multiple cpus is trivial.. getting it to actually utilize both efficiently is a problem in itself |
| 01:21.26 | TheRedBaron | No problems whatsoever |
| 01:21.37 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: that was my poorly phrased question |
| 01:21.48 | TheRedBaron | (21:20:31) TheRedBaron: or you getting bz to actuall use dual cores/processors? |
| 01:21.49 | biggeruniverse | In Linux, you get evil (and sometimes negative) time skews |
| 01:22.20 | biggeruniverse | so the engine tries to run in reverse on one step, and far into the future on the next |
| 01:22.49 | biggeruniverse | It was supposedly fixed, but I still see the issue. |
| 01:23.04 | TheRedBaron | what nix flavor? |
| 01:23.08 | brlcad | hm, i'd not heard that report |
| 01:23.20 | brlcad | sounds like a libc/kernel bug |
| 01:23.33 | biggeruniverse | It's not a bug, it's the lack of a capability |
| 01:24.32 | brlcad | depends how it's defined to behave |
| 01:24.32 | biggeruniverse | independent processors always have time skews |
| 01:24.32 | brlcad | i would claim the clocks are defined in terms of synchronized clock ticks |
| 01:24.33 | biggeruniverse | if the OS handles it, no problems |
| 01:25.01 | brlcad | do you actually have a test case that exhibits this behavior? |
| 01:25.14 | brlcad | and more importantly, how'd you observe this in bz? |
| 01:25.17 | biggeruniverse | in everything I write ;) |
| 01:25.45 | brlcad | hyperbole doesn't help |
| 01:26.02 | biggeruniverse | I just fixed aN OGRE app that would freak out when it tried to step over 1.8e15 seconds. |
| 01:26.07 | brlcad | seriously, an observable simple test case that shows the issue? |
| 01:26.19 | brlcad | wrt bz |
| 01:26.30 | biggeruniverse | ok, hold on |
| 01:26.55 | biggeruniverse | can you meet me on a 2.1 server? |
| 01:27.05 | brlcad | i suppose |
| 01:27.43 | biggeruniverse | kahless seems to be up |
| 01:28.13 | KTL | running the server or the client in parallel? |
| 01:28.21 | biggeruniverse | what? |
| 01:28.28 | biggeruniverse | no, just the client |
| 01:28.31 | KTL | does the server take that much resource that it is worth it to be run in parallel |
| 01:28.54 | brlcad | KTL: bzfs takes pretty much no resources at the moment |
| 01:29.02 | brlcad | unless you have a really extensive word filter enabled |
| 01:29.18 | brlcad | but even with that, it's not too bad |
| 01:29.40 | biggeruniverse | This is dual AMD Athlon 3800s with nVidia mainboard |
| 01:30.05 | KTL | the client has a main loop ... with tasks to be done ... redrawing in a correct order too ... |
| 01:30.08 | biggeruniverse | I have almost 0 jitter on other boxes from the same LAN |
| 01:30.15 | biggeruniverse | with this one, nearly 50ms |
| 01:30.32 | biggeruniverse | and that's because I rebooted it recently, the skew increases over time |
| 01:31.21 | Winny | 400,000 poly mountains :p |
| 01:31.31 | TheRedBaron | biggeruniverse: same processor I have |
| 01:31.48 | brlcad | general clockdrift isn't necessarily an smp issue in itself -- we've had issues with various TimeKeeper methods drifting from time to time |
| 01:32.09 | KTL | what takes the most cpu of all tasks to be done by the client? |
| 01:32.41 | brlcad | KTL: rendering takes up 90% of the time if not more |
| 01:32.57 | KTL | isn't that given to the graphics card |
| 01:33.06 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:33.55 | KTL | so using a parallel implementation would be for only 10% of the total work |
| 01:33.58 | brlcad | still spends most of it's time talking to opengl |
| 01:34.06 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:34.47 | brlcad | depends on the hardware some, but if you could prepare display lists in parallel, that should cut into the 90% some |
| 01:35.17 | biggeruniverse | If two processors drift, and the processes jumps back and forth rapidly, what happens? |
| 01:35.17 | brlcad | but wouldn't buy you a whole lot for most systems |
| 01:35.18 | L4m3r | or if there was some way to divide it between two GPUs |
| 01:35.34 | KTL | aren't those given to the graphics card once and reused over and over |
| 01:35.51 | L4m3r | hehe, imagine... 2 CPUs and 2 GPUs that were made to work in parallel |
| 01:36.01 | brlcad | yeah, the new nvidias are going smp, but that's all under the hood too |
| 01:36.04 | KTL | have fun with the cables :) |
| 01:36.21 | KTL | ah the graphics industry goes parallel too |
| 01:37.05 | L4m3r | didn't 3dfx go down that road back in the day? |
| 01:37.37 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: the "processors" don't drift -- it's the timing mechanism, whether you're tying to hardware counters, the system clock, cpu ticks, or something else etc |
| 01:38.02 | brlcad | on linux, it should be using the system clock via gettimeofday() |
| 01:38.16 | TheRedBaron | L4m3r: yup, industry wasn't ready for it |
| 01:38.33 | brlcad | if you can show gettimeofday() returning a date in the future and then one in the past, I'd be shocked |
| 01:39.13 | brlcad | and again, I'd still call that a bug -- a libc bug in that case |
| 01:39.42 | brlcad | as it's entire job it to turn clock ticks into some resemblance of time |
| 01:40.06 | KTL | ... in how far could I use my GeForce 7900 GT for running other things then graphical applications? |
| 01:40.27 | brlcad | we had some bad laptops for a while that had system clocks that drifted crazy, but that's a different issue altogether |
| 01:40.55 | brlcad | and I believe those laptops had firmware updates to fix the problem iirc (at least for the alienware ones iirc) |
| 01:45.50 | *** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus) |
| 01:46.42 | KTL | ok there is a rasterizing pipeline on a gpu |
| 01:47.18 | KTL | but i still hear words saying that gpu's and cpu's are fighting for each others domain |
| 01:47.50 | brlcad | quite true |
| 01:48.02 | brlcad | intel's got a whole group looking to make the gpu obsolete |
| 01:49.13 | brlcad | opengl's raster pipeline has so many hacks upon hacks that disappear if you just did more advanced rendering on the cpu |
| 01:50.16 | KTL | that one has to implement himself ... |
| 01:50.19 | brlcad | if you had enough cores that worked efficiently enough, you could do most of the render effects that the raster pipeline provides with something like real-time raytracing on the cpu |
| 01:50.31 | TheRedBaron | oh geeze You mean i don't have to drool over ATI's upcoming r600 anymore? |
| 01:50.32 | biggeruniverse | ok |
| 01:50.51 | brlcad | not to mention a slew of things you can't do in opengl that are more and more photo-realistic than raster affords |
| 01:51.10 | biggeruniverse | 0.010600 |
| 01:51.10 | biggeruniverse | 0.012370 |
| 01:51.10 | biggeruniverse | 0.090030 |
| 01:51.11 | biggeruniverse | -0.069341 |
| 01:51.11 | biggeruniverse | 0.007813 |
| 01:51.11 | biggeruniverse | 0.011994 |
| 01:51.13 | biggeruniverse | 0.011995 |
| 01:51.43 | biggeruniverse | added printf("%f\n", dt); at line 6742 of playing.cxx |
| 01:51.56 | biggeruniverse | are you shocked? |
| 01:53.14 | KTL | const float dt = float(TimeKeeper::getTick() - prevTime); |
| 01:53.35 | biggeruniverse | what do you think, KTL, should that *ever* be negative? |
| 01:54.02 | biggeruniverse | http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2003-12/0935.html |
| 01:54.15 | biggeruniverse | it's an old problem, and perhaps a bug, but in hardware |
| 01:54.24 | TheRedBaron | biggeruniverse: i'll get you a flux capacitor, that out to fix it |
| 01:54.27 | TheRedBaron | *aught |
| 01:54.32 | biggeruniverse | ought |
| 01:54.37 | biggeruniverse | aught = all |
| 01:54.42 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 01:55.01 | KTL | it's a feature in the pc preventing the thing becoming older |
| 01:55.06 | biggeruniverse | heh |
| 01:55.15 | Winny | does BZFS not allow a map over a certain size? |
| 01:55.35 | TheRedBaron | ~dict aught |
| 01:55.57 | TheRedBaron | goose egg? what the? |
| 01:55.58 | a_temp_dist | WInny, there's no limit on map size |
| 01:56.03 | Winny | hmm |
| 01:56.04 | Winny | odd |
| 01:56.05 | biggeruniverse | heh |
| 01:56.15 | biggeruniverse | opposite of naught |
| 01:56.20 | Winny | cause, the server will work with one map, but not my 50mb one :p |
| 01:56.31 | TheRedBaron | ibot: your dictionary sucks |
| 01:56.48 | TheRedBaron | really bad |
| 01:56.49 | biggeruniverse | hehe |
| 01:56.52 | TheRedBaron | you definitions are schizophrenic |
| 01:57.04 | biggeruniverse | yeah, why is naught in the aught definition... |
| 01:57.25 | biggeruniverse | That dictionary is more like a thesaurus... |
| 01:57.32 | biggeruniverse | oops |
| 01:57.43 | KTL | 50 mb map ... |
| 01:57.51 | biggeruniverse | that's kinda oversized |
| 01:58.00 | Winny | yeah |
| 01:58.00 | biggeruniverse | I wouldn't want to download it... |
| 01:58.04 | KTL | maps are growing ... |
| 01:58.06 | Winny | just a test |
| 01:58.36 | KTL | are maps compressed a bit before being send over the net? (don't think so) |
| 01:58.47 | biggeruniverse | wouldn't that be cool? |
| 01:58.50 | purple_cow | well, they're sent in a binary format |
| 01:58.54 | purple_cow | which is smaller than plain text |
| 01:59.05 | biggeruniverse | I think I made brlcad's head explode... |
| 01:59.13 | KTL | hehe |
| 02:00.18 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: no, not shocked by that -- i said gettimeofday() |
| 02:00.49 | biggeruniverse | did you follow the link? |
| 02:00.59 | biggeruniverse | and anyway, how are you getting the tick time? |
| 02:01.19 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: yes I did |
| 02:01.59 | biggeruniverse | I've spoken about this here before. |
| 02:02.10 | KTL | ... the client has no parser for maps then ... only the server parses maps |
| 02:02.11 | brlcad | and it's pretty much in line with what I was saying -- having a system clock wiggle around like that would be a bug to me :) |
| 02:02.24 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: do you see the issue with just gettime of day? |
| 02:02.27 | biggeruniverse | it is, but AMD wrote a driver fix for windows |
| 02:02.30 | biggeruniverse | yeah |
| 02:02.49 | biggeruniverse | but not linux :( |
| 02:03.02 | brlcad | I mean, you've actually written code and tested -- not mailing list stuff from others ;) |
| 02:03.37 | brlcad | there are other timers on linux that could be used |
| 02:03.49 | brlcad | if there was a way to detect at configure time or somesuch |
| 02:03.59 | biggeruniverse | why not just average ticks? |
| 02:04.34 | biggeruniverse | or not allow negative time steps at least... |
| 02:04.41 | brlcad | TimeKeeper's tickTime() is just a clock check that is made once per frame (instead of on-demand) |
| 02:04.48 | biggeruniverse | right |
| 02:04.56 | brlcad | for cases where it's not important to be exact |
| 02:05.10 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: then what happens when you have extreme Frames per second? |
| 02:05.16 | TheRedBaron | upwards of 800 |
| 02:05.37 | biggeruniverse | lim dt -> 0 |
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| 02:05.54 | brlcad | I wouldn't expect 800 to be an issue, but for considerably higher ones, you'll start pressing up against FLT_EPSILON |
| 02:06.09 | TheRedBaron | I could probably reach those |
| 02:06.23 | TheRedBaron | right now, with 800 I bounce off walls when i jump against them |
| 02:06.32 | brlcad | that's a different problem |
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| 02:06.41 | biggeruniverse | setTick() on TimeKeeper calls getCurrent(), which uses gettimeofday |
| 02:06.43 | biggeruniverse | right? |
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| 02:06.47 | brlcad | there are other places in the code that do their own dt computations, and those can get out of whack |
| 02:06.48 | TheRedBaron | but its FPS related, as I lower the fps, the bouncing reduces |
| 02:07.18 | biggeruniverse | so why should I write other code? bzflag demonstrated the problem... |
| 02:07.40 | brlcad | bigger problem is actually places in the code where it actually *doesn't* take dt into account .. which is what mostly causes craziness at high framerates |
| 02:07.43 | biggeruniverse | and as KTL showed us, dt is calculated with TimeKeeper. |
| 02:08.53 | biggeruniverse | so yes, I see the issue with just gettimeofday, in bz |
| 02:09.42 | biggeruniverse | as time passes (weeks) the drift between the two procs gets worse... eventually I have to reboot because it starts repeating keystrokes etc |
| 02:09.51 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: perhaps i'm just more pedantic than you when it comes to these matters -- the test hasn't been isolated -- though I wouldn't disagree that that's what seems like goes on |
| 02:09.57 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: yeah, it's really bouncy at 1200FPS ;D |
| 02:10.21 | brlcad | i just don't assume anything, and that is an assumption, regardless of it being a moderately safe one here |
| 02:10.39 | TheRedBaron | blast007: yup :) |
| 02:11.23 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: you'd have to have a framerate of like 50k for it to cause floating point issues |
| 02:11.31 | blast007 | wonder what kind of FPS my friend's nVidia 8600GTS would get |
| 02:11.44 | blast007 | hmm, 50k? |
| 02:11.53 | brlcad | like I said, that problem that's in the code now is mostly the reverse.. places where there's a computation beign made that doesn't take time into account |
| 02:12.00 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: w00t, I have a new goal to reach :) |
| 02:12.06 | brlcad | just uses some fixed frame delta |
| 02:13.01 | blast007 | CPU would be the limit anyway |
| 02:13.02 | TheRedBaron | blast007: wireless opens a whole new world of ease and laziness :) |
| 02:13.10 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14211 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: ws |
| 02:13.17 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: yeah...suppose I could VNC to it |
| 02:14.07 | biggeruniverse | wow, sometimes typos are fun! |
| 02:14.28 | brlcad | ts: seems the binaries used to be linked static, now they're not per mods from tupone .. so have to find out from him why he didn't want static binaries |
| 02:14.54 | brlcad | i suspect i know why, and if it's the reason I think it is, then we can make them static again |
| 02:17.58 | biggeruniverse | Well, I've given notice of a bug that *affects* bzflag on linux. It doesn't seem to affect many other players, so I won't spend more time on it |
| 02:18.16 | biggeruniverse | I'll just fix my client and be done with it ;) |
| 02:18.59 | brlcad | er, what's the "fix" for your client? |
| 02:19.31 | brlcad | gettimeofday() is effectively returning the wrong time... |
| 02:19.32 | KTL | mxpr.h is a calculator? |
| 02:19.51 | brlcad | if there's a fix that can be applied, I don't see why not apply it |
| 02:20.06 | brlcad | even more cool would be to use a performance counter instead of gettimeofday() |
| 02:20.59 | biggeruniverse | agreed |
| 02:21.04 | brlcad | like read the rpcc 64-bit process counter directly to get direct cpu cycles |
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| 02:21.09 | purple_cow | mucking about with timekeeping is really scary |
| 02:21.25 | TheRedBaron | mess not with the sacred keepers of time? |
| 02:21.28 | purple_cow | please don't do it haphazardly |
| 02:21.29 | brlcad | then map that to your cpu frequency (therein being the really tricky part) |
| 02:21.31 | TheRedBaron | *muck |
| 02:22.41 | biggeruniverse | all I have done is make sure it's greater than 0 |
| 02:23.54 | brlcad | hmm |
| 02:25.12 | biggeruniverse | if(dt <= ZERO_TOLERANCE) |
| 02:25.12 | biggeruniverse | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.12 | biggeruniverse | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.26 | biggeruniverse | quick n dirty |
| 02:25.57 | biggeruniverse | that still doesn't fix the issue, but it's playable at least |
| 02:29.50 | biggeruniverse | I'm gone! |
| 02:30.52 | brlcad | hmm, ZERO_TOLERANCE could be problematic |
| 02:49.37 | menotume | hmm, waht happens when cpu changes speed ? |
| 02:50.54 | menotume | blast: i've played at 3000fps :) |
| 02:51.01 | blast007 | ;D |
| 02:51.04 | blast007 | what card? |
| 02:51.10 | menotume | nothing fancy |
| 02:51.17 | blast007 | hmm |
| 02:51.17 | menotume | 300x200, all options off |
| 02:51.21 | blast007 | :P |
| 02:51.38 | menotume | GEforce FX 5700 |
| 02:51.57 | menotume | tanks goes about 2.5 - 3x normal speed |
| 02:53.48 | blast007 | wonder what my 7900GTO could get at that res :P |
| 02:54.54 | menotume | hehe |
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| 03:03.44 | menotume | it could get stolen, if it's ever around me |
| 03:06.14 | TheRedBaron | erk! |
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| 03:12.32 | L4m3r | AHHHHH THE WORLD IS ENDING |
| 03:12.33 | a_meteorite | :o |
| 03:12.33 | menotume | the world won't end till 2011 |
| 03:12.33 | menotume | actually, the world will still be here, but we won't :P |
| 03:12.33 | Winny | :p |
| 03:12.33 | TheRedBaron | menotume: oh? |
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| 03:34.08 | a_meteorite | fun |
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| 03:37.07 | Rawk | menotume: quick google: http://www.amazon.com/Time-Has-End-Biblical-D/dp/customer-reviews/0533151694 ??? |
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| 03:37.09 | TheRedBaron | are we back yet? |
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| 03:51.04 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14212 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: |
| 03:51.04 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: add the same preventions as used by the windows timer to prevent going back in |
| 03:51.04 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: time with a negative difference. this seems to be occuring on at least some |
| 03:51.04 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: recent versions of smp linux 2.6 kernel on amd64 systems. since gettimeofday is |
| 03:51.04 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: based on system time, this resistance to go back in time means that bad things |
| 03:51.05 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: will probably happen if ntp changes the time drasticly during gameplay (but then |
| 03:51.05 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: so do massive negative time deltas). |
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| 04:52.17 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14213 10/trunk/bzflag/NEWS: Fixed framerate jitter-inducing bug on SMP systems |
| 04:52.33 | brlcad | hmmm.. rdtsc is exceptionally unreliable... |
| 04:53.19 | brlcad | forget that new timer, not worth it given the correction junk it'd need |
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| 05:37.14 | jude- | hello all |
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| 05:38.49 | jude- | hello JeffM2501 |
| 05:42.39 | brlcad | howdy jude- |
| 05:43.25 | jude- | hello brlcad |
| 05:43.52 | jude- | my finals are finished--I can start focusing on code :) |
| 05:52.25 | jude- | brb (switching client programs) |
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| 05:57.15 | jude- | back |
| 06:56.35 | brlcad | cool |
| 06:57.07 | brlcad | one bug left wiggling around ... where are you, you little beastie ... |
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| 13:42.33 | Winny | does the BZFlag client support anything besides .png? |
| 13:43.15 | Winny | 'cause so far this map is up to ~40mb of textures |
| 13:46.48 | jh` | anyone had problems with bzflag+lcd monitor? |
| 13:50.05 | Winny | no |
| 13:50.13 | Winny | is you resolution set wrong? |
| 13:50.19 | jh` | i dont think so |
| 13:50.28 | Winny | refrsh rate? |
| 13:50.33 | jh` | well in fast movement the picture comes blurry |
| 13:50.35 | Winny | that made mine go nuts |
| 13:50.40 | Winny | ooh |
| 13:50.41 | jh` | nah its supposed to be ok |
| 13:50.44 | Winny | thats refresh rate |
| 13:50.53 | Winny | crank it up |
| 13:51.08 | jh` | i think its at max |
| 13:51.16 | Winny | hmmm |
| 13:51.21 | Winny | crappy monitor? :p |
| 13:51.27 | jh` | dont think so |
| 13:51.41 | jh` | i hope.. |
| 13:51.42 | jh` | lol |
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| 14:54.15 | blast007 | jh`: do other games blur too? |
| 14:54.43 | blast007 | I would think it's probably just a slow response time on the monitor |
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| 14:57.21 | brlcad | Winny: you can/should optimize your png images, depending on how you generate them |
| 14:57.22 | jh` | nope |
| 14:57.32 | jh` | response time is 5ms |
| 14:58.04 | jh` | i tried with battlefield2 it looked ok to me |
| 14:58.27 | brlcad | there are good tools to optimize png images -- a lot of apps will make png images with rather expensive default quality settings |
| 15:07.54 | Winny | ok, thanks brlcad |
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| 16:20.37 | biggeruniverse | I think I messed up and my message didn't get across- I'm hip to a branch |
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| 16:59.08 | eTangenT | ~bzfrag blast007 |
| 16:59.10 | ibot | ACTION trys a jump shot on blast007 and gets blown away by skill |
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| 17:11.21 | blast007 | eTangenT: nice try ;) |
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| 20:28.42 | Winny | horay for not needing the back of the moutain range |
| 20:28.48 | Winny | can cut the poly count in 1/2 |
| 20:28.49 | Winny | :D |
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| 21:29.20 | Winny | insted of specifying a local path in the config, can a map be located on a webserver somewhere else? |
| 21:29.33 | Winny | IE: "-world "http://foo.com/mapthing.bzw" |
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| 21:31.24 | Chestal | Winny: AFAIK no, but you can create a binary world format with -cacheout and then use that with -cache http://... |
| 21:31.27 | Thumper_ | Winny: don't think so but you can put a cache file of the map on a webserver so it retrieves the map from the webserver. The cache file is small |
| 21:32.16 | Winny | ah, ok |
| 21:34.30 | blast007 | s/small/smaller/ |
| 21:35.03 | blast007 | if he's got a 20+ MB map, the cache file will still have some size to it ;) |
| 21:36.34 | Thumper_ | blast007: ok :-P |
| 21:37.07 | blast007 | it was 50mb last I knew |
| 21:37.12 | blast007 | not sure if he's reduced it |
| 21:37.26 | blast007 | Winny: how big is it now? |
| 21:37.47 | Winny | well, right now, with just the mountains, 10mb |
| 21:37.49 | Thumper_ | the biggest cache file I ever made was 296K |
| 21:38.02 | Winny | but I think that is going to be made smaller still |
| 21:38.46 | Winny | since the players are basically right_on the mountains, they can't be really square |
| 21:39.30 | Thumper_ | the map file was 3MB |
| 21:40.01 | Thumper_ | (LouMan's churchyard R1) |
| 21:40.08 | blast007 | ah |
| 21:41.14 | Winny | I wish BZW format would say "v" insted of "vertex" |
| 21:41.25 | Winny | thats alot of extra imformation in the map file |
| 21:41.42 | Winny | ...if you have ~100,000 of them |
| 21:41.56 | blast007 | pw |
| 21:42.05 | Winny | :p |
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| 21:43.54 | Tannerld | lol |
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