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| 00:06.24 | KTL | but beryl offers the option to turn it off quickly, and then bzflag can be run as usual |
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| 00:44.41 | deltaray | Is there any way to configure bzfs to progress through maps after each map has been won? |
| 00:46.54 | JeffM2501 | not with out a plug-in or external script |
| 00:47.13 | JeffM2501 | there is also no default way to say a map has been "won" |
| 00:48.55 | blast007 | not default, but there is time limit, player score limit, and team score limit |
| 00:49.14 | deltaray | Ok, but I could use the -g option right to quit after the goal score has been reached? or the time has run out? |
| 00:49.22 | deltaray | And then I could script it? |
| 00:49.28 | blast007 | yeah, I think that's the option |
| 00:49.48 | blast007 | yup, "server one game and exit" |
| 00:49.51 | blast007 | serve* |
| 00:50.00 | blast007 | so you could use that, and then do a shell script |
| 00:50.33 | deltaray | Ok, that's good enough. Thanks |
| 00:50.38 | blast007 | there is also a "map change" plugin, that would let people select the next map to run |
| 00:50.44 | blast007 | with a bit of setup, of course |
| 00:50.47 | deltaray | ok |
| 00:50.55 | blast007 | I think it was released on the forum |
| 00:51.01 | deltaray | Is there anything in the works to make the game just go to the next map? |
| 00:51.14 | JeffM2501 | 2.1 will have plugins that can do it |
| 00:51.19 | deltaray | Cool |
| 00:51.34 | JeffM2501 | there is now an API function that can kick everyone off, reload the map, then let them back in |
| 00:51.36 | blast007 | 2.1 will be released as 2.2 |
| 00:51.50 | JeffM2501 | but at it's core BZ dosn't know what a "next map" is |
| 00:51.53 | JeffM2501 | the world is static |
| 00:53.42 | deltaray | Interesting. Was there any debate about why they decided to do that? |
| 00:54.01 | tupone | who are they? |
| 00:54.37 | deltaray | The bzflag community |
| 00:54.46 | deltaray | but mostly the developers |
| 00:54.50 | blast007 | the community didn't decide that part ;) |
| 00:54.58 | blast007 | it was that way before it was open-source |
| 00:55.02 | JeffM2501 | that's how bz was wirten back then |
| 00:55.13 | deltaray | ah |
| 00:55.29 | JeffM2501 | BZ is old |
| 00:55.31 | JeffM2501 | really old |
| 00:56.05 | tupone | probably you think about some plan, there are no shared plans |
| 00:56.44 | JeffM2501 | it was first writen just by one guy |
| 00:57.09 | deltaray | Yeah, I heard that it used to be available back in the early 90s. That's pretty old. And cool that its still in development. |
| 00:59.06 | JeffM2501 | it was not designed for internet play at first |
| 00:59.15 | JeffM2501 | so stuff like that wasn't realy considered |
| 00:59.21 | JeffM2501 | the first versions didn't even load maps from files |
| 01:01.09 | CBG | I'm curious, where DID it load maps from? It just ran the random generated maps? |
| 01:01.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:01.28 | JeffM2501 | CTF had a fixed map |
| 01:01.31 | JeffM2501 | FFA had the randoms |
| 01:02.09 | deltaray | They had CTF way back then? |
| 01:03.25 | deltaray | So would that make BZFlag the first 1st person game to have CTF? |
| 01:04.11 | JeffM2501 | probably not |
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| 01:17.59 | Think_Differentl | join ##tadd |
| 01:18.18 | CBG | s/j//j/ ftw |
| 01:18.25 | Think_Differentl | whoops |
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| 01:35.57 | deltaray | One thing that would be nice is if the debuging output or logging output would timestamp each line |
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| 01:41.14 | blast007 | deltaray: of bzfs? look at -ts (not sure if that was in 2.0.8 or if it was added later) |
| 01:43.22 | blast007 | yeah, seems it's been there a while, so should be good to go |
| 01:52.54 | biggeruniverse | s/j/\/j/ |
| 02:07.56 | deltaray | blast007: thanks that worked |
| 02:12.11 | *** part/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 02:14.07 | biggeruniverse | hmm good feature |
| 02:14.09 | biggeruniverse | have to add that.. |
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| 02:42.49 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: need more info than that |
| 02:49.30 | brlcad | JeffM2501: read the log, saw the issue .. though it was totally devoid of anything useful to fix anything |
| 02:50.30 | brlcad | i'm done with the integration.. if something isn't working right where it worked before, then I'll look into it more .. otherwise, it's working here for me fully |
| 02:52.18 | brlcad | and curl wasn't just included because of ares (though that's a good reason in itself), it's included because it's a required dependency -- projects either make everyone that compiles go get what they need when they don't have it or it is provided to them, two perfectly viable approaches with tradeoffs |
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| 02:55.24 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I don't want to be including all of ogre or CS |
| 02:55.26 | brlcad | tupone doesn't like them being included, fine .. entitled to his opinion, though I'd strongly argue that the overall benefits far outweigh the "displeasure" of including bz's required dependencies with bz |
| 02:55.47 | brlcad | i'd agree with you on that .. there's a tradeoff as the packages get bigger |
| 02:55.58 | brlcad | i wouldn't want to include sdl either or ogre, etc |
| 02:56.30 | brlcad | but for the ones that are considerably smaller than bz.. (which to date is all of them) it's convenience that is only used when they're needed |
| 02:58.28 | biggeruniverse | brlcad: can't find symbols like ares_inet_net_pton |
| 02:58.52 | macgoss | hello met |
| 02:59.02 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: did you cvs up, was ares compilation enabled or disabled, was a system ares found? |
| 02:59.23 | brlcad | s/cvs/svn/ |
| 02:59.25 | biggeruniverse | I svn up'd even. enabled |
| 02:59.50 | biggeruniverse | although it doesn't matter |
| 03:00.23 | brlcad | failed ares symbols on what? |
| 03:00.28 | biggeruniverse | it decided to buiild included ares |
| 03:00.34 | biggeruniverse | linking bzfs |
| 03:00.39 | brlcad | was it building ares before? |
| 03:00.59 | biggeruniverse | yes |
| 03:01.03 | brlcad | i.e. do you have a system libcares |
| 03:01.21 | brlcad | okay, so that much matches what it was doing before |
| 03:01.30 | biggeruniverse | no |
| 03:01.41 | biggeruniverse | heh |
| 03:02.10 | brlcad | huh? |
| 03:02.13 | brlcad | how so? |
| 03:02.23 | biggeruniverse | no, I don't have system libcares |
| 03:02.30 | biggeruniverse | yes, it matches |
| 03:02.34 | biggeruniverse | time skew! |
| 03:02.36 | brlcad | kokay |
| 03:03.00 | brlcad | grep LIBCARES src/bzfs/Makefile |
| 03:03.30 | brlcad | what does it report? |
| 03:03.46 | biggeruniverse | LIBCARES = ${top_builddir}/src/other/ares/libcares.la |
| 03:04.04 | biggeruniverse | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:04.27 | brlcad | there's a slash at the end of that second line, yes? |
| 03:04.35 | biggeruniverse | oh, yes |
| 03:04.40 | brlcad | k |
| 03:04.50 | brlcad | well that's all correct |
| 03:04.57 | brlcad | ls -la src/other/ares/libcares.la |
| 03:05.15 | biggeruniverse | 832 |
| 03:05.33 | biggeruniverse | I assume you wanted the size... |
| 03:05.40 | brlcad | no, the line |
| 03:05.51 | brlcad | or just acknowledgement that it exists |
| 03:05.59 | biggeruniverse | it does |
| 03:06.26 | biggeruniverse | it's on a different box, this is bad enough already ;) |
| 03:06.42 | brlcad | then need to see the actual link line and the failure .. something isn't adding up |
| 03:06.57 | biggeruniverse | (sigh) |
| 03:07.07 | biggeruniverse | let me fire up synergy... |
| 03:08.00 | biggeruniverse | yay for synergy! |
| 03:08.15 | brlcad | using: make LIBTOOL=../../libtool |
| 03:08.19 | brlcad | from src/bzfs |
| 03:08.52 | biggeruniverse | what? |
| 03:09.40 | biggeruniverse | you want me to try that? |
| 03:10.38 | *** join/#bzflag GrandHustla (n=4a45e028@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:10.41 | GrandHustla | ~bzfquery 74.69.224.40:5154 |
| 03:11.03 | biggeruniverse | yeah, it's ../../libttttool |
| 03:11.06 | biggeruniverse | gah! |
| 03:13.27 | lodxcol | hmm, Im running a server with -d logging, and I still get a playerlist like every ten seconds in the log. |
| 03:14.09 | Tannerld | ~ibot 127.0.0.1:5154 |
| 03:14.35 | biggeruniverse | brlcad: it's not compiling all the files for the library... |
| 03:21.51 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: which OS? |
| 03:22.09 | biggeruniverse | lennox |
| 03:22.41 | biggeruniverse | is there another one? |
| 03:22.48 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: yes, I wanted you to run "make LIBTOOL=../../libtool" as by default that's not what it uses |
| 03:23.41 | brlcad | that turns off silent mode, shows the actual link line |
| 03:24.02 | biggeruniverse | I see the link line... |
| 03:24.07 | biggeruniverse | why wouldn't I? |
| 03:24.41 | biggeruniverse | libcares build isn't even compiling inet_net_pton.c, bitncmp.c, inet_ntop.c, etc. |
| 03:25.14 | brlcad | and you're verified that is actually a problem? |
| 03:25.20 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r14194 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/Makefile.am: need libcurl here |
| 03:26.08 | brlcad | seriously, the link line was for my benefit not yours.. if you're not going to pastebin the actual error then there is only so much I can do to help |
| 03:26.21 | brlcad | by default it does not show the actual link line |
| 03:26.30 | brlcad | it shows the libtool wrapped command |
| 03:27.25 | biggeruniverse | not on my custom slackware build ;) |
| 03:27.46 | brlcad | then it sounds like you're not up to date then or something hasn't been updated correctly |
| 03:27.58 | brlcad | or you're outright misunderstanding something you're looking at |
| 03:28.13 | brlcad | otherwise you should be seeing something like: |
| 03:28.34 | brlcad | http://pastebin.ca/473230 |
| 03:29.13 | brlcad | default should have a --silent after ../../libtool and there is no actual link line displayed |
| 03:29.19 | biggeruniverse | That's what I always see. I haven't been doing this for years to be told I don't understand what I'm looking at. |
| 03:30.06 | biggeruniverse | --silent is for lusers |
| 03:30.21 | brlcad | not an insult, just a possibility |
| 03:30.50 | brlcad | it may be for lusers, but if you don't see --silent then something is wrong |
| 03:30.53 | brlcad | because configure sets it |
| 03:30.54 | biggeruniverse | wow. nice ddodge |
| 03:31.24 | brlcad | dodge? |
| 03:31.36 | biggeruniverse | brlcad did say two other alternatives in addition to potentially not understanding |
| 03:32.24 | brlcad | seriously, i'm just trying to help -- i don't really care much what you can or can't do so long as the problem is uncovered so (if needed) a fix can be made |
| 03:33.16 | biggeruniverse | the problem is that make is not including all files when building libcares |
| 03:33.26 | brlcad | again |
| 03:33.30 | brlcad | did you verify this? |
| 03:33.31 | biggeruniverse | I just don't know what *causes* the problem |
| 03:33.46 | *** part/#bzflag Joss (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 03:33.48 | biggeruniverse | I'm looking at the link output |
| 03:33.51 | brlcad | i.e. how did you arrive at that determination |
| 03:34.20 | brlcad | so it's not part of the link output.. files aren't compiled.. but did you determine whether that is actually intended or not? |
| 03:34.46 | brlcad | i.e. does one of those files have a symbol you need |
| 03:35.26 | brlcad | otherwise, it sounds like just a guess .. and that's not too useful unfortunately |
| 03:35.49 | brlcad | you should be seeing this in bzfs dir: http://pastebin.ca/473236 |
| 03:36.38 | brlcad | if you don't, then some bets are off as it implies something going very wrong during configure |
| 03:38.04 | biggeruniverse | we'll see here in a second |
| 03:41.37 | biggeruniverse | http://pastebin.ca/473248 |
| 03:41.58 | biggeruniverse | but, you know, I could be misunderstanding something I'm looking at... |
| 03:42.19 | brlcad | aha! |
| 03:42.29 | brlcad | so libcares is failing to build |
| 03:42.37 | brlcad | you said bzfs was failing to link |
| 03:42.37 | biggeruniverse | no, it builds |
| 03:42.52 | biggeruniverse | notice the snip |
| 03:42.52 | brlcad | no it didn't |
| 03:42.54 | brlcad | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 03:42.56 | biggeruniverse | whaat? |
| 03:43.04 | biggeruniverse | that's the bzfs error |
| 03:43.20 | biggeruniverse | *below* the snip is the successful finish of cares |
| 03:43.30 | brlcad | so they're out of order? |
| 03:43.41 | biggeruniverse | dude |
| 03:43.46 | biggeruniverse | *I* did that |
| 03:44.08 | brlcad | okay, that is what I'm asking you |
| 03:44.16 | brlcad | you change the order and I'm reading it like a snip from a log |
| 03:44.22 | brlcad | c'mon, don't make it harder |
| 03:44.36 | biggeruniverse | well, that's my fault |
| 03:44.53 | biggeruniverse | but, missing symbols correspond to missing files |
| 03:45.20 | brlcad | and again, you've not answered relating to that point |
| 03:45.27 | brlcad | you've verified they're missing files? |
| 03:45.42 | biggeruniverse | what else could bitncmp.c be for? |
| 03:45.45 | brlcad | specifically that those symbols are from missing files |
| 03:46.02 | biggeruniverse | what could ares_parse_aaaa_reply.c be for? |
| 03:46.09 | brlcad | *sigh* |
| 03:46.32 | brlcad | it's not a guessing game, the symbols in the file or not -- i'm *just* asking if you checked to see if I needed to check |
| 03:46.47 | biggeruniverse | Might as well. |
| 03:46.52 | brlcad | apparently. |
| 03:58.57 | brlcad | would you pastebin the contents of src/other/ares/Makefile? |
| 03:59.16 | biggeruniverse | the entire? |
| 03:59.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 04:00.18 | brlcad | those symbols are all in files that should be linked in, but something is inconsistent as there's no discernable difference between those that are being included and those that aren't |
| 04:00.34 | brlcad | e.g. ares_parse_a_reply.c and ares_parse_aaaa_reply.c |
| 04:00.57 | biggeruniverse | http://pastebin.ca/47322266 |
| 04:00.59 | brlcad | your prior paste shows one but not the other, yet both are only listed in one directive file |
| 04:01.00 | biggeruniverse | gah |
| 04:01.13 | biggeruniverse | http://pastebin.ca/473266 |
| 04:01.14 | brlcad | got it |
| 04:02.11 | biggeruniverse | ha! |
| 04:02.43 | biggeruniverse | we shall see now... |
| 04:04.14 | brlcad | hrm, that's even more bizzare -- that Makefile doesn't match the previous paste rule for the archive |
| 04:04.26 | brlcad | was the archive link line you pastebin'd complete? |
| 04:04.30 | biggeruniverse | good things! good things! |
| 04:04.40 | biggeruniverse | yes |
| 04:05.02 | biggeruniverse | I just wiped out the entire directory structure and rebuilt |
| 04:05.34 | biggeruniverse | ok |
| 04:05.49 | brlcad | oh jeez... |
| 04:06.02 | brlcad | you did do a "make clean" before beginning I hope? |
| 04:06.19 | biggeruniverse | Many, many times. It must have been autogen, configure by itself didn't fix it. |
| 04:06.36 | brlcad | ah |
| 04:07.44 | brlcad | yes, autogen.sh is generally required when either configure.ac or a Makefile.am changes |
| 04:08.04 | brlcad | the makefile "should" be regenerated automatically, but there are *so* many combinations and versions of the gnu autotools where the regeneration is incomplete |
| 04:08.20 | biggeruniverse | I'm sure that's the way mine is. |
| 04:08.23 | brlcad | and still a few situations where it's outright required regardless |
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| 04:08.33 | jude- | hello all |
| 04:08.38 | brlcad | hey jude- |
| 04:08.42 | jude- | hello brlcad |
| 04:10.42 | biggeruniverse | hey jude |
| 04:11.07 | biggeruniverse | then you can start to make things better |
| 04:11.32 | brlcad | hm? |
| 04:12.54 | biggeruniverse | take a sad song and make it better |
| 04:13.07 | biggeruniverse | poor jide |
| 04:13.09 | biggeruniverse | *jude |
| 04:15.01 | jude- | indeed |
| 04:15.20 | jude- | I'm not named after the song, however, which is a good thing :) |
| 04:15.42 | biggeruniverse | heh. You should see what I do to Flash ;) |
| 04:16.26 | biggeruniverse | saviour of the universe, after all |
| 04:16.38 | biggeruniverse | (I think he hates that) |
| 04:16.51 | *** part/#bzflag deltaray (n=deltaray@static1-66-244-85-183.stfd.smithvilledsl.net) |
| 04:16.56 | jude- | lol |
| 04:19.06 | biggeruniverse | hmm bzfs2 has a message queuing problem |
| 04:19.43 | a_meteorite | bzfs2? |
| 04:19.54 | a_meteorite | 2.0, 2.1? |
| 04:20.17 | biggeruniverse | something completely different |
| 04:20.25 | a_meteorite | yours? |
| 04:20.30 | biggeruniverse | indeed |
| 04:20.37 | biggeruniverse | I was going to call it my pet rock |
| 04:20.51 | Tannerld | huh? |
| 04:20.52 | biggeruniverse | but that's kind of long |
| 04:22.43 | biggeruniverse | Or perhaps not. I'm not used to this new time query. |
| 04:23.30 | brlcad | biggeruniverse: just to be clear and finish up -- presumably your build is working now, yes? |
| 04:23.50 | biggeruniverse | tis |
| 04:23.53 | biggeruniverse | thx |
| 04:24.01 | brlcad | k, glad to hear it |
| 04:25.56 | brlcad | if your working from svn source, running autogen.sh is pretty much required whenever there's a build system change, followed by a reconfigure, followed by a make clean |
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| 04:30.37 | brlcad | even though autotools tries, it should never be relied upon when the build system changes (and the devs docs should say that if they don't already, though it's one of many such assumptions of dealing with svn builds) |
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| 08:20.59 | ts | ~spell ashamed |
| 08:26.07 | Deepa | ~spell dyslexia |
| 08:26.23 | Deepa | It may be, But none ever does |
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| 15:37.09 | biggeruniverse | I love rain |
| 15:44.12 | KTL | use* |
| 16:02.18 | Winny_Outside | can't touch this! |
| 16:12.25 | biggeruniverse | I wouldn't touch winny. You don't know where he's been |
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| 16:28.21 | biggeruniverse | is iiit dead? |
| 16:28.23 | biggeruniverse | *it |
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| 16:47.36 | blast007 | weee |
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| 17:43.05 | biggeruniverse | ? |
| 17:43.28 | biggeruniverse | everyyone left... |
| 17:47.40 | Tannerld | nope |
| 17:50.42 | biggeruniverse | not yo |
| 17:50.46 | biggeruniverse | *you |
| 17:52.39 | JeffM2501 | I banned them all |
| 17:53.55 | biggeruniverse | good |
| 17:54.13 | JeffM2501 | banning Tim was the best part |
| 17:54.58 | Tannerld | heh |
| 17:55.13 | biggeruniverse | looks like anthony.freenode.net crashed |
| 17:56.14 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 17:56.27 | JeffM2501 | I banned that |
| 17:56.38 | biggeruniverse | you would |
| 17:57.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah you know me |
| 17:58.14 | JeffM2501 | all part of my plan to take my rightfull place as maintainer |
| 17:59.04 | Tannerld | world domination? |
| 17:59.04 | biggeruniverse | the truth comes out |
| 17:59.48 | JeffM2501 | I've never kept it a secret |
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| 18:04.32 | JeffM2501 | I mean I do have code in the project older then tim |
| 18:05.13 | JeffM2501 | then I can realise my dream of making it an RPG |
| 18:11.40 | biggeruniverse | will it be an FPS RPG? |
| 18:12.43 | biggeruniverse | I'd actually like to see it be a MMOFPS heh |
| 18:13.04 | biggeruniverse | It's one letter away already |
| 18:13.25 | biggeruniverse | *already->only |
| 18:14.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah MMO |
| 18:14.47 | JeffM2501 | thrid/first |
| 18:14.51 | JeffM2501 | evertank |
| 18:15.04 | JeffM2501 | tho expanded to more then tanks |
| 19:00.57 | JeffM2501 | hey Winny will blender read in povray files? |
| 19:01.17 | Winny | Never used povray, so I don't know |
| 19:01.19 | Winny | sorry |
| 19:01.37 | JeffM2501 | you don't have blender installed? |
| 19:01.56 | Winny | not on this machine |
| 19:02.02 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 19:02.42 | KTL | can't find .pov in the blender import list ... |
| 19:02.52 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 19:03.16 | Winny | Ill shuffle over to my other machine and check 2.43 |
| 19:04.07 | blast007 | 2.42a doesn't have it |
| 19:04.11 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:04.37 | JeffM2501 | probalby dosn't do it by default :( |
| 19:04.39 | Winny | neither does 2.43, I think |
| 19:05.14 | Winny | there is that blender with povray built in |
| 19:05.23 | Winny | but it isn't up to date, IIRC |
| 19:05.40 | JeffM2501 | probalby just does bender -> povRay for rendering |
| 19:06.32 | blast007 | I don't see povRay in the export settings either |
| 19:09.21 | KTL | lebensraum fur deine Software |
| 19:10.11 | *** join/#bzflag biggeruniverse (n=biggerun@adsl-68-90-161-137.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net) |
| 19:10.48 | biggeruniverse | I was BANNED! |
| 19:11.21 | CBG | Superb. |
| 19:11.23 | JeffM2501 | from?\ |
| 19:11.26 | KTL | :D |
| 19:11.48 | Tannerld | eheh |
| 19:12.06 | blast007 | from the interwebs! |
| 19:12.21 | Winny | ohnoez! |
| 19:12.31 | blast007 | or maybe it was the blogosphere |
| 19:12.38 | Winny | even worse! |
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| 19:18.59 | Winny | gosh, DDR2 is more expensive now then when I bought it a year ago |
| 19:21.59 | Winny | this is... special... my manual or my motherboard says I have a 184pin DDR2 config, the website says 240 pin |
| 19:22.08 | Winny | or/for* |
| 19:22.59 | KTL | take the average:) |
| 19:24.07 | CBG | 212 pins :) |
| 19:25.22 | Winny | hehe |
| 19:25.29 | blast007 | or take one out and count it ;) |
| 19:25.39 | CBG | pff |
| 19:25.42 | CBG | that's.... LOGICAL. |
| 19:27.05 | blast007 | "DDR2 is a 240-pin module, DDR is a 184-pin module." |
| 19:27.35 | Winny | oh |
| 19:27.51 | Winny | been about 2 years since Ive had to thinkg about it :p |
| 19:28.06 | blast007 | ..supposedly anyway.. |
| 19:28.21 | blast007 | I'm finding places selling 184-pin DDR2 |
| 19:28.48 | CBG | heh |
| 19:35.20 | Winny | w00t, found it |
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| 19:47.21 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you arround? |
| 19:47.49 | Winny | I think he is asquare |
| 19:47.59 | biggeruniverse | damn! |
| 19:48.05 | biggeruniverse | that was my line! |
| 19:48.16 | Winny | :) |
| 19:48.21 | brlcad | JeffM2501: yes |
| 19:49.14 | JeffM2501 | can brlcad read a pov file? |
| 19:49.37 | biggeruniverse | in soviet russia... nevermind |
| 19:50.12 | Winny | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.34 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ah, nope |
| 19:51.04 | JeffM2501 | damn |
| 19:51.07 | JeffM2501 | little does :( |
| 19:52.15 | CBG | Sounds like a business opportunity. :P |
| 19:52.30 | brlcad | patches welcome :P |
| 19:52.32 | JeffM2501 | not relay |
| 19:52.46 | JeffM2501 | if I knew the format I'd import it direclty into my stuff :) |
| 19:53.38 | Winny | what are you trying to do? |
| 19:53.53 | biggeruniverse | whip in to shape with your bare eyes! |
| 19:54.18 | JeffM2501 | read in some data that I can only get exported as POV, and keep the UV coordinates |
| 19:54.50 | biggeruniverse | wow |
| 19:56.36 | biggeruniverse | convert it to what? |
| 19:57.11 | JeffM2501 | something I know how to read |
| 19:57.13 | JeffM2501 | like obj |
| 19:57.43 | Winny | hmm |
| 19:57.52 | Winny | what are you making it in that only exports to Pov? |
| 19:58.10 | JeffM2501 | not making it |
| 19:58.20 | Winny | oh |
| 19:58.23 | JeffM2501 | the data is from an existing source |
| 19:58.31 | JeffM2501 | and the only exporter dumps out to pov |
| 20:00.00 | Winny | Ive found something, but doesn't do UV |
| 20:00.47 | blast007 | JeffM2501: might try this: http://mysite.verizon.net/sfg0000/ |
| 20:01.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah dosn't do UVs |
| 20:01.16 | JeffM2501 | that's what I've been using |
| 20:01.20 | blast007 | hmm, k |
| 20:01.31 | JeffM2501 | been searching for days :) |
| 20:01.39 | biggeruniverse | pov2mesh? |
| 20:01.54 | JeffM2501 | where? |
| 20:02.50 | blast007 | http://www.geocities.com/psenzee/pov2mesh/ |
| 20:02.56 | blast007 | shareware, 30 day trial |
| 20:02.56 | Winny | on the topic of 3d stuff, am I the only one that uses Indigo as a renderer? |
| 20:03.05 | biggeruniverse | yes, but doesn't mention UV |
| 20:04.03 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't do the mesh prim |
| 20:04.06 | blast007 | also found one called 3DWin that is shareware, that says it does UV |
| 20:04.18 | blast007 | http://www.tb-software.com/products_2.html# |
| 20:04.31 | JeffM2501 | yeah that dosn't |
| 20:04.59 | blast007 | doesn't do UV? |
| 20:05.05 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 20:05.09 | JeffM2501 | it does UV for OTHER formats |
| 20:05.13 | JeffM2501 | but dosn't for pov |
| 20:05.14 | biggeruniverse | http://www.povray.org/documentation/view/3.6.1/170/ |
| 20:05.19 | Winny | looks like your out of luck :\ |
| 20:05.30 | blast007 | JeffM2501: it shows it in the table |
| 20:05.49 | blast007 | UV has a check for POV-Ray |
| 20:05.50 | JeffM2501 | it LIES |
| 20:05.53 | blast007 | heh |
| 20:05.59 | Tannerld | everybody lies - House |
| 20:07.35 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-82148.ewetel.net) |
| 20:07.50 | blast007 | JeffM2501: http://www.martinreddy.net/gfx/3d/POV.spec |
| 20:07.51 | blast007 | ;) |
| 20:08.12 | biggeruniverse | http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.utilities/thread/%3CXns94F5A773245Aseed7@news.povray.org%3E/ |
| 20:08.51 | Winny | no UV |
| 20:09.03 | Winny | oh, wait |
| 20:12.03 | biggeruniverse | why would it be a good idea to create a custom scripting language to describe a 3D scene? |
| 20:13.41 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 20:19.10 | biggeruniverse | When is the next protocol breakage? |
| 20:20.59 | biggeruniverse | I want to add resource invalidation |
| 20:26.20 | CBG | It'll be when it'll be. |
| 20:26.36 | biggeruniverse | you're my hero |
| 20:26.37 | CBG | You see to be under the major misapprehension that there is some kind os "plan". |
| 20:27.07 | biggeruniverse | there ought to be |
| 20:28.19 | CBG | Nobody has said otherwise. |
| 20:28.19 | biggeruniverse | then everyone can lament about being behind |
| 20:28.20 | CBG | Produce a realistic plan, perhaps the devs will attempt to stick to it. |
| 20:28.20 | blast007 | CBG: it won't be one person developing a plan :) |
| 20:28.21 | biggeruniverse | I produced an all new bzfs engine. I've done my part. ;P |
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| 20:30.05 | JeffM2501 | biggeruniverse, if it's for 2.1 it's whenever something that needs to break it gets done |
| 20:30.14 | biggeruniverse | hmm |
| 20:30.27 | biggeruniverse | then I need to put in a format enhancement request |
| 20:30.35 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 20:30.37 | biggeruniverse | I so much prefer to sneak in changes :P |
| 20:30.44 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 20:30.50 | JeffM2501 | what exactly do you want to change? |
| 20:31.12 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-162-83-123-169.norf.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:31.42 | biggeruniverse | The paradigm of maps. |
| 20:31.53 | JeffM2501 | specifics please |
| 20:31.56 | biggeruniverse | Clients don't need to be kicked to load new maps |
| 20:32.09 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 20:32.16 | JeffM2501 | geting better |
| 20:32.19 | JeffM2501 | keep going |
| 20:32.28 | biggeruniverse | heh |
| 20:32.28 | JeffM2501 | you going to limbo them all? |
| 20:32.43 | biggeruniverse | no, server sends out: "Map is invalid" |
| 20:32.44 | JeffM2501 | honestly geting info out of you is a pain |
| 20:32.51 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 20:32.56 | JeffM2501 | then what do the clients do? |
| 20:33.01 | biggeruniverse | client requests hash, and checks cache |
| 20:33.14 | biggeruniverse | just like they reconnected |
| 20:33.16 | JeffM2501 | what about active shots and player positions? |
| 20:33.33 | JeffM2501 | and flags |
| 20:33.46 | biggeruniverse | those 3 would reset |
| 20:33.52 | biggeruniverse | scores don |
| 20:33.54 | JeffM2501 | so it's efective limbo |
| 20:33.57 | biggeruniverse | 't *need* to |
| 20:33.59 | JeffM2501 | makes sense |
| 20:34.05 | JeffM2501 | you have a patch for such a thing? |
| 20:34.23 | biggeruniverse | it requires an awful lot of work |
| 20:34.33 | biggeruniverse | on both client and server |
| 20:34.33 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:34.34 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 20:34.46 | JeffM2501 | if you want it in, it has to get in somehow |
| 20:34.49 | biggeruniverse | technically, not much on server |
| 20:35.06 | biggeruniverse | since the server doesn't have the full gamestate |
| 20:35.08 | JeffM2501 | are you saying you don't want to do it? |
| 20:35.20 | JeffM2501 | just that it is possible? |
| 20:35.30 | biggeruniverse | I want to do it, but I have no bandwidth |
| 20:35.46 | JeffM2501 | cus we know it's possible |
| 20:35.51 | JeffM2501 | it's been talked about a number of times |
| 20:35.55 | JeffM2501 | just none has done it |
| 20:57.08 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 20:57.40 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite! |
| 20:57.51 | biggeruniverse | ow! my eye! |
| 20:58.15 | a_meteorite | yes? |
| 20:58.17 | a_meteorite | hehehe |
| 20:58.55 | KTL | meteorites are not stars as far as i know :) |
| 21:18.17 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 21:20.23 | CBG | A meteorite is a meteoriod that has hit Earth and survived the impact. |
| 21:20.35 | a_meteorite | whatever :P |
| 21:20.58 | CBG | Thus, it is most certainly not a star, so KTL is correct ... as far as they know. :) |
| 21:21.29 | KTL | but it might have hit an eye of biggeruniverse |
| 21:21.50 | KTL | (in that case we wont hear of biggeruniverse again) |
| 21:21.55 | CBG | "biggeruniverse" always confused me. |
| 21:22.27 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse's universe and expanse is bigger than a meteorite. |
| 21:22.28 | CBG | Since the (our) univese is expanding, it is always bigger than it was. |
| 21:24.25 | CBG | Depending on the critical density of the universe however, this expansion could stop, the forces of gravity within the universe could ultimately cause the Big Crunch. |
| 21:24.45 | a_meteorite | CBG: English please, kthx. |
| 21:24.56 | CBG | Dude, basic cosmology... |
| 21:25.44 | CBG | You should, it rocks. |
| 21:26.46 | CBG | You want the equation for critical density? Together we could (try) to work out the fate of our universe (continued expansion or a big crunch). |
| 21:27.11 | a_meteorite | :o |
| 21:27.24 | KTL | *upcoming stomac ache* :P |
| 21:28.17 | CBG | I'll refer to the critical density as p, since I can't see how to type the correct character on my keyboard... p = (3Ho^2)/(8πG) |
| 21:29.05 | biggeruniverse | no, rocks is geology |
| 21:29.19 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: He said cosmology... |
| 21:29.27 | biggeruniverse | he said it was rocks |
| 21:29.36 | KTL | it rocks ... |
| 21:29.52 | a_meteorite | CBG: Do I need a super computer to do this? |
| 21:29.55 | biggeruniverse | I'm here to confuse CBG |
| 21:29.56 | CBG | "it rocks", not "it is about rocks". |
| 21:30.01 | KTL | the rolling stones are neither rocks nor stones ... |
| 21:30.05 | KTL | but they rock |
| 21:30.19 | CBG | a_meteorite: no, certainly not. First we need to work out Ho - Hubble's Constant. |
| 21:30.22 | a_meteorite | KTL: They carry rocks in their pockets when they're onstage, duh! |
| 21:30.30 | a_meteorite | CBG: Uh okay. |
| 21:30.47 | KTL | ow ... a new world view is rising ! |
| 21:30.48 | CBG | This is the main problem with calculating critical density, Hubble's Constant is Not. |
| 21:30.54 | biggeruniverse | it's not dark matter! it's Einstein's fudge-factor! |
| 21:32.27 | CBG | But, we'll glide over that and take a rough average of figures calculated for Ho... 1.6*10^-18 s^-1 |
| 21:32.39 | CBG | Now we also need to know G, this is much easier... |
| 21:32.48 | biggeruniverse | geno |
| 21:33.21 | CBG | It's the universal gravitational constant: 6.67*10^-11 |
| 21:34.05 | CBG | So, input those values into our equation and we have: (3*(1.6*10^-18)^2)/(8*π*(6.67*10^-11)) |
| 21:34.16 | a_meteorite | :o |
| 21:34.42 | CBG | This gives us a critical density of: *drum roll*... 4.58137168*10^-27 |
| 21:34.43 | KTL | ... he even got pi displayed on my irc client ... |
| 21:34.58 | biggeruniverse | not for me :( |
| 21:35.05 | biggeruniverse | I was about to ask about pi... |
| 21:35.24 | a_meteorite | What does that mean? That's how many more seconds, years, until we have a "big crunch"? |
| 21:35.33 | CBG | Now.... the importance of the critical density is this... |
| 21:35.55 | CBG | If the actual density of the universe is greater than the critical density: big crunch. |
| 21:36.14 | KTL | *paprika* |
| 21:36.17 | tupone | a_meteorite, when, if, it will be. The notion of time is not very similar to what we have now |
| 21:36.21 | CBG | If the actual density of the universe is less than the critical density: continued expansion 4evr |
| 21:37.15 | CBG | Now, a_meteorite your job is to establish the _actual_ density of the universe. |
| 21:37.16 | CBG | Good luck. |
| 21:38.08 | biggeruniverse | What if the expansion of the universe also stretches time? Doesn't that mean that it would accelerate toward either state? |
| 21:38.33 | a_meteorite | y = mc^2 |
| 21:38.39 | a_meteorite | *e |
| 21:38.53 | biggeruniverse | there's no gravity |
| 21:39.00 | a_meteorite | Damnit. |
| 21:39.04 | biggeruniverse | hehe |
| 21:39.20 | KTL | :D |
| 21:39.55 | CBG | e=mc^2 demonstrates mass - energy equivalence. :) |
| 21:39.57 | biggeruniverse | before I had computers, I used to like lightning storms... |
| 21:40.26 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: Yeah, I like the sound of thunder too |
| 21:40.33 | KTL | btw i heard something about american army research after fission, time to google for it |
| 21:40.34 | a_meteorite | But I'd rather be on my computer... |
| 21:40.41 | biggeruniverse | fusion |
| 21:40.42 | KTL | euhm fusion* |
| 21:40.50 | a_meteorite | Fusion > Fission ? |
| 21:40.53 | biggeruniverse | it's darpa, not the army |
| 21:41.02 | KTL | fusion is melting parts together |
| 21:41.05 | KTL | fission is splitting |
| 21:41.08 | a_meteorite | oh |
| 21:41.09 | CBG | a_meteorite: neither is "better" than the other. |
| 21:41.11 | a_meteorite | What's harder to do? |
| 21:41.13 | CBG | They are different things. |
| 21:41.15 | KTL | fustion should give a lot more energy |
| 21:41.34 | biggeruniverse | fusion is only a cleaner reaction |
| 21:41.41 | a_meteorite | I heard somewhere that Einstein said that one cup of water doing fusion or fission or something could power New York City for a day. |
| 21:41.45 | a_meteorite | Or maybe it was some other scientist. |
| 21:41.46 | KTL | and extremely difficult to sustain |
| 21:42.07 | a_meteorite | It was doing SOMETHING to a cup of water to get energy... |
| 21:42.18 | biggeruniverse | Fusion occurs in perfectly circular bubbles when they implode. |
| 21:42.24 | KTL | so now i am extremely curieus what the french still-to-be-build tokamak will do |
| 21:42.55 | KTL | bubbles? |
| 21:43.58 | biggeruniverse | look up bubble fusion and Sonoluminescence |
| 21:44.54 | KTL | that's yet another ... even more difficult way to get fusion iirc |
| 21:45.06 | a_meteorite | We can only do fission with today's technology right? |
| 21:45.10 | a_meteorite | And stars and stuff do fusion? |
| 21:45.13 | KTL | yes |
| 21:45.15 | KTL | yes |
| 21:45.18 | biggeruniverse | you don't get anything but a pretty light out of it |
| 21:45.19 | KTL | and a-bombs |
| 21:45.24 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 21:45.36 | KTL | well we can sustain a reaction of 30+ seconds |
| 21:45.38 | biggeruniverse | the z machine can do fusion |
| 21:45.50 | KTL | they even had more output energy then input once |
| 21:47.06 | CBG | a_meteorite: Ok, I have to admit, I didn't know the actual density of the universe and it's not in my class notes. My class notes just state that is it very close to the critical denisty. This suggests that the universe will stop expanding at infinite time. However, this page provides a few real figures, all greater than the critical density. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/ChristinaCheng.shtml - This suggests that the universe will collapse in on itself |
| 21:47.57 | biggeruniverse | either way, it won't be any time soon |
| 21:48.09 | biggeruniverse | probably just after the 2.2 release |
| 21:49.01 | CBG | Yeah, it might coincide. |
| 21:49.17 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: What after the 2.2 release? |
| 21:49.46 | KTL | mmm ... what about some sort of flag that attracts all tanks towards it? they get sucked to some black hole point in the map ... |
| 21:50.12 | biggeruniverse | I thought about a blackhole flag |
| 21:50.21 | KTL | the force should be relative to the distance to the blackhole |
| 21:50.26 | CBG | that'd suck |
| 21:50.36 | a_meteorite | I want to make a plugin that makes US deflect bullets :D |
| 21:50.44 | a_meteorite | with 2.1's control of shot packets.. possible |
| 21:50.52 | a_meteorite | you could make an equation to bend bullet's paths |
| 21:50.53 | biggeruniverse | CBG: funny |
| 21:50.54 | KTL | there is nothing in the game that tries to take control over the movement of the tanks yet |
| 21:51.05 | biggeruniverse | yes there is |
| 21:51.11 | CBG | I tried to make US act like ID - it said all flags were the same (Left Turn Only, iirc). |
| 21:51.14 | biggeruniverse | several bad flags mess with the controls |
| 21:51.25 | biggeruniverse | probably PZ, actually |
| 21:51.34 | KTL | yes ok but if the player decides to do nothing nothing happens |
| 21:51.53 | a_meteorite | blackhole map object! |
| 21:51.54 | KTL | while this ... a slow acceleration towards the black hole ... |
| 21:51.57 | KTL | increasing speed |
| 21:52.03 | KTL | run forest run |
| 21:52.03 | CBG | biggeruniverse: as opposed to Left Turn Only - or are you talking about something else? |
| 21:52.09 | CBG | 'cause you may be right on that. |
| 21:52.19 | a_meteorite | CBG: it's PZ, I remember them talking about it |
| 21:52.30 | a_meteorite | a blackhole map object would be pretty sweet :) |
| 21:52.57 | KTL | a_meteorite, was it you or purple panzer that made the borg cube map? |
| 21:53.06 | a_meteorite | purple panzer |
| 21:53.13 | a_meteorite | but I can take credit for it if you'd like |
| 21:53.21 | CBG | Oh? Is there a reason why that happens then? An anti-cheat-like-I-was-trying-to-do thing? |
| 21:53.22 | KTL | because the ground floor should be replaced by a big bouncing surface |
| 21:53.59 | a_meteorite | KTL: I've only made a few maps :) |
| 21:54.14 | a_meteorite | I'm very uncreative in names, maybe if they got decent names they'd be played at |
| 21:55.05 | biggeruniverse | CBG: the server sends flag id once you pick it up, unless ID flag is on the map |
| 21:55.09 | KTL | a voting system should help |
| 21:55.32 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: not in 2.1 |
| 21:55.36 | biggeruniverse | on those maps one could hack the client to always tell you what you were close to |
| 21:55.46 | a_meteorite | it only sends the flags when you pick the flag up or get near it with ID |
| 21:55.47 | CBG | biggeruniverse: ok, but I found the code that tells the player what the nearest flag is IF they have ID. I changed it to do that IF they have ID _OR_ US. |
| 21:55.49 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: I know, but in the current |
| 21:55.53 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 21:56.12 | CBG | But with US, it said the nearest flag was always flagX when clearly it was not ALWAYS flagX. |
| 21:56.15 | biggeruniverse | CBG: go to a map that has ID on it already |
| 21:56.27 | CBG | I don't have that client right now... |
| 21:56.36 | biggeruniverse | which? 2.0.8? |
| 21:56.50 | CBG | I forget what version I modified. |
| 21:56.58 | CBG | Most likely some version of 2.0.9 from CVS. |
| 22:43.12 | biggeruniverse | woot |
| 22:43.35 | a_meteorite | ... |
| 22:44.03 | biggeruniverse | Are you working on the density of the universe? |
| 22:44.07 | biggeruniverse | you ought to be |
| 22:44.21 | a_meteorite | no |
| 22:46.28 | KTL | ~lart matlab |
| 22:46.28 | ibot | executes killall -TERM matlab |
| 22:48.11 | JeffM2501 | biggeruniverse, ID flag was changed for 2.1 |
| 22:48.20 | JeffM2501 | it now sends the name of the closest flag |
| 22:48.49 | biggeruniverse | I know |
| 22:50.20 | biggeruniverse | we were talking about current behavior |
| 22:52.12 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:52.15 | CBG | We were? |
| 22:52.23 | JeffM2501 | current behavor is stupid |
| 22:52.27 | JeffM2501 | in many ways |
| 22:52.32 | CBG | I am curious, as to why my "cheat" didn't work. |
| 22:53.03 | JeffM2501 | what did you do? |
| 22:53.07 | biggeruniverse | you weren't on a map that supported ID |
| 22:53.13 | biggeruniverse | *map -> server |
| 22:53.30 | CBG | I was, biggeruniverse... |
| 22:53.54 | biggeruniverse | it worked for me ;) |
| 22:54.03 | CBG | JeffM2501: I found the code that tells the client the closest flag if they have ID and made it do it if they had ID _OR_ US. |
| 22:54.12 | biggeruniverse | not that I ever used it... |
| 22:54.30 | JeffM2501 | did the server have ID? |
| 22:54.32 | JeffM2501 | or just US? |
| 22:54.36 | CBG | However, with the US flag, it wouldn't actually tell me what the closest flag was - it insisted that flagX was always closest. |
| 22:54.38 | CBG | Both. |
| 22:55.01 | CBG | (where FlagX is a constant flag which I forget) |
| 22:55.07 | JeffM2501 | PZ? |
| 22:55.21 | CBG | Yes, probably. |
| 22:55.33 | JeffM2501 | that's the ID that all flags are set to |
| 22:55.47 | JeffM2501 | you SURE a real ID was on the server? |
| 22:56.22 | CBG | Pretty sure, I seem to remember testing on a passion map... ie: planet mofo. They have always had ID flags iirc. |
| 22:56.53 | biggeruniverse | Oh, that's a silly place. |
| 22:57.24 | CBG | I wouldn't have been banned for testing my client there, that's why I chose it. |
| 22:57.41 | biggeruniverse | no one would no >.> <.< |
| 22:57.42 | JeffM2501 | it's possible it dosn't send you the real flag ids untill you pick up ID |
| 22:57.48 | biggeruniverse | *know |
| 22:58.01 | CBG | But maybe I am being forgetful and was not at a server with ID flags... |
| 22:58.12 | CBG | I'd re-test but that client is looong-gone. |
| 22:58.40 | CBG | Could remake it, was a simple edit. Almost as easy as invincibility to all shots... |
| 22:59.20 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 23:28.59 | KTL | ~lart the **** that gives me a ping of 600+ ms |
| 23:28.59 | ibot | stuffs the **** that gives me a ping of 600+ ms into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 23:36.37 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 23:37.21 | biggeruniverse | stupid dual processor skew |
| 23:37.44 | *** join/#bzflag BZ_Win (n=Winny@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:46.10 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.25 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |