| 00:00.28 | CBG | ~seen TimRiker |
| 00:00.51 | ibot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 1d 2h 9m 19s ago, saying: 'I don't know the history, so I have no input.'. |
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| 00:10.19 | *** part/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:11.17 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 00:11.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:28.28 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, I'll see you in hell before I see you get the bzflag.org domain |
| 00:29.02 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-68-128.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:29.52 | Constitution | lol |
| 00:30.36 | KTL | 1 april |
| 00:30.40 | JeffM2501 | you can't claim copyright on the name |
| 00:30.46 | JeffM2501 | or the older code |
| 00:31.04 | JeffM2501 | KTL, yes I can tell time, thanks |
| 00:31.35 | JeffM2501 | I told them not to jump the gun, to wait till something was read |
| 00:31.41 | JeffM2501 | but no, they wanted it to be at the same time as there 2.0.6 |
| 00:31.58 | JeffM2501 | and now it happens on some stupid "holliday" |
| 00:32.17 | *** join/#bzflag tadd (n=tadd@adsl-074-239-228-191.sip.mco.bellsouth.net) |
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| 00:33.51 | JeffM2501 | at least we can finaly get rid of that lame windows and mac server |
| 00:37.09 | JeffM2501 | yeah keeping the old code is lame |
| 00:38.24 | Constitution | it's good enough for some 200 players at any given time |
| 00:38.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah if you are ok with such a pittance of players |
| 00:39.16 | JeffM2501 | people wanted terrain, they are getting terrain! |
| 00:39.19 | JeffM2501 | they will stay |
| 00:40.05 | Constitution | people also wanted moving objects... moving objects will be one of the first things implemented in the legacy branch once (what was) 2.1 is released |
| 00:40.25 | JeffM2501 | who's writing your server side sync then? |
| 00:41.03 | Constitution | the developer team is still recruiting... we don't know exactly what our team will comprise yet |
| 00:41.16 | JeffM2501 | ahh, so you don't have any devs yet ;) |
| 00:41.24 | JeffM2501 | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH |
| 00:42.00 | Constitution | we have devs, but we haven't assigned roles yet since we're not sure who will end up on our team and what they're strenghts are |
| 00:43.11 | ruskie | so in other words you have nobody :) |
| 00:43.42 | Constitution | um, no... "we have devs" |
| 00:44.16 | ruskie | with no roles == nothing unless you have general devs that do nothing ;) |
| 00:44.34 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
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| 00:45.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 00:45.25 | Constitution | and at 12 hours after formation we're supposed to have a complete dev staff and roles assigned? |
| 00:45.55 | ruskie | lol one flaw in that first screenshot of wzflag... it's missing an on-screen flag which is visible on radar ;) |
| 00:48.40 | JeffM2501 | ruskie, due merging the code is not simple |
| 00:48.51 | JeffM2501 | radar was being worked on by some kid |
| 00:49.17 | JeffM2501 | it's all screwed up |
| 00:49.17 | JeffM2501 | that's why I said they should have waited |
| 00:49.17 | ruskie | anyway this is one of the reasons I try to stay offline during 1st of april :) |
| 00:49.20 | JeffM2501 | it's still running both scene databases |
| 00:49.52 | ruskie | if the performance of wzflag is anything like that of warzone I'd have to start looking for a new game to play... |
| 00:49.59 | JeffM2501 | Constitution, well better to have your setup ready before you announce, then if you fail you look like a fool |
| 00:50.18 | JeffM2501 | hey I've always said bzflag should die, this is the fastest way |
| 00:50.23 | ruskie | anyway sleep... it's 0250 here... |
| 00:50.32 | KTL | wuss |
| 00:51.18 | Constitution | JeffM2501: I have several people interested... I'm just allowing people the opportunity to react to the announcment with their interest |
| 00:51.42 | Constitution | the more we have, the better |
| 00:51.55 | Constitution | Also, I would be happy to provide a backlink from bzflag.org to the wzflag site, so no need to worry |
| 00:52.22 | *** join/#bzflag poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.47 | JeffM2501 | won't be needed, as the domain isn't going anywhere |
| 00:52.55 | JeffM2501 | too many servers are still using it |
| 00:53.15 | JeffM2501 | who you got interested? |
| 00:53.57 | Constitution | lol, you seem very confident of that |
| 00:53.59 | Constitution | the current servers will be dead anyway, with the entirely new game concept |
| 00:54.03 | Constitution | a bunch of guys from the CS program at school |
| 00:54.43 | JeffM2501 | I am 100% sure the servers will stay with the mainline codebase |
| 00:54.52 | JeffM2501 | ah "a bunch of guys" |
| 00:54.58 | KTL | these guys are all 22 yrs old? |
| 00:55.11 | JeffM2501 | hope you find the timebombs ;) |
| 00:55.50 | KTL | cant count on just students |
| 00:57.11 | JeffM2501 | not unless you pay them |
| 00:57.45 | Constitution | I'm looking into getting our school to sponsor the project |
| 00:58.18 | JeffM2501 | well good luck with that |
| 01:00.35 | JeffM2501 | the merger is just good for me personaly, as it gets me closer to opencombat |
| 01:01.24 | JeffM2501 | figure if I get the quake3 code in there for the FPS stuff then I'll be good to go |
| 01:02.43 | *** part/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 01:04.26 | patlkli | i don't understand this change/difference between bzflag and wzflag |
| 01:05.49 | JeffM2501 | wzflag has terrain |
| 01:05.56 | JeffM2501 | and is 3rd person |
| 01:07.14 | hobbsc | so you're just looking to turn bzflag into opencombat? |
| 01:07.48 | patlkli | why don't you develop two projects? |
| 01:07.49 | JeffM2501 | if I can work it |
| 01:07.58 | hobbsc | exactly, seems a little selfish to me |
| 01:08.00 | JeffM2501 | more resources for one |
| 01:08.04 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 01:08.30 | JeffM2501 | I'm the longest active developer |
| 01:08.41 | JeffM2501 | it's more "my" code then it is tims |
| 01:09.09 | hobbsc | that doesn't mean you can hijack it out of nowhere |
| 01:09.24 | JeffM2501 | dosn't mean I can't |
| 01:09.40 | hobbsc | why don't you just branch it off? |
| 01:09.51 | JeffM2501 | because I don't want to |
| 01:09.51 | hobbsc | some people actually enjoy the simplicity of the game as it stands |
| 01:10.00 | patlkli | JeffM2501, but don't you think, that you should ask the players whether you should do it? |
| 01:10.02 | JeffM2501 | they will like opencombat |
| 01:10.08 | hobbsc | how do you know that? |
| 01:10.14 | hobbsc | why not ask the community? |
| 01:10.15 | JeffM2501 | patlkli, what makes you think bzflag was ever a democracy? |
| 01:10.18 | hobbsc | it is OSS, after all |
| 01:10.27 | JeffM2501 | we never asked the comunity if they wanted anything else |
| 01:10.31 | JeffM2501 | they can split if they want |
| 01:10.35 | hobbsc | i genuinely hope someone grabs the 2.0.x code and runs with it if that's the case |
| 01:10.37 | Constitution | unfortunately it's hard to guarantee that open-source projects will ever cater to the desires of the end-users :-( |
| 01:10.58 | PuMpErNiCkLe | You can't guarantee that. |
| 01:11.00 | JeffM2501 | OSS does not confer any specific coding orginisation |
| 01:11.17 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Unless you feel like developing it in your own direction, it's entirely up to the dudes maintaining it. |
| 01:11.18 | patlkli | JeffM2501, so you want to do what YOU want? and ask nobody else? |
| 01:11.33 | patlkli | there are so many third person games |
| 01:11.35 | JeffM2501 | hey I'm a project admin, I'm using the resouces I have |
| 01:11.38 | tadd | Um |
| 01:11.40 | JeffM2501 | the other admins agree |
| 01:11.45 | JeffM2501 | end of story |
| 01:11.58 | tadd | if I might add... one of the interesting things about OSS is that anybody who wants to put huge amounts of work into it, gets what they want |
| 01:12.12 | tadd | if there are two such people, they can each work together or go their own way. |
| 01:12.29 | JeffM2501 | exactly, just cus it's OSS dosn't mean we have to accept any changes |
| 01:12.36 | JeffM2501 | we decide what changes we accept and don't |
| 01:12.38 | JeffM2501 | this is our direction |
| 01:12.49 | hobbsc | without even consulting the players? |
| 01:13.02 | tadd | but if some group of people wants to go spin a branch they can, but now they have to have their own resources in toto to have the level of support the main stream has already. |
| 01:13.13 | tadd | sure. Eventually you end up with legacy and new |
| 01:13.15 | hobbsc | you call this support? |
| 01:13.24 | tadd | and it might even take quite a bit of time for "new" to be obviously better than legacy |
| 01:13.27 | tadd | it happens all the time |
| 01:13.43 | tadd | some of the "new" team might even defect back to legacy if the direction seems wrong or if it is just taking longer than their attention span. |
| 01:13.48 | hobbsc | i really don't think that a complete change in the basic dynamics of the game constitutes "support" |
| 01:13.51 | JeffM2501 | notice the code says that there is NO warranty and no support |
| 01:13.52 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Support? For free? hehehehe... |
| 01:14.03 | JeffM2501 | we do this on our own |
| 01:14.11 | Think_Differentl | well, if Constitution cant have the bzflag.org domain, he can surly register another such as bzflag.xxx |
| 01:14.14 | JeffM2501 | we don't ow anyone anting |
| 01:14.25 | tadd | support is dependent on the interest of the contributers. If yo uhave no people interested in support, then you don't get any support. |
| 01:14.27 | JeffM2501 | we have .com, .net, and .org |
| 01:14.30 | JeffM2501 | he can have .ws |
| 01:14.34 | JeffM2501 | since that's pointless |
| 01:14.42 | patlkli | JeffM2501, hmm, why don't you like bzflag? and don't say that u like it..... |
| 01:14.46 | hobbsc | why are you retaining the domain if you're chainging the game? |
| 01:14.50 | hobbsc | chainging, too |
| 01:14.56 | JeffM2501 | I don't, that's why I'm changing it |
| 01:15.01 | Constitution | Think_Different1, I still think there's a good chance that I'll get it |
| 01:15.27 | Constitution | Obviously JeffM2501 and I don't agree on that point ;-) |
| 01:15.33 | hobbsc | Constitution: are you going to try to take over on 2.0.x? |
| 01:15.45 | Constitution | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=105391 |
| 01:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 01:16.08 | JeffM2501 | the project owns the domain |
| 01:16.09 | hobbsc | at least someone has retained their sanity |
| 01:16.22 | Constitution | hobbsc: thanks |
| 01:16.39 | JeffM2501 | hey if you can make it work, good luck |
| 01:16.44 | JeffM2501 | that is the joy of OSS |
| 01:16.46 | patlkli | JeffM2501, my question was, WHY you don't like bzflag anymore... |
| 01:17.12 | *** join/#bzflag BlasterWisconsin (n=BlasterW@CPE-72-131-123-112.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 01:17.13 | JeffM2501 | cus it's too simple |
| 01:17.25 | JeffM2501 | it was fine in 97, but now it needs to be updated |
| 01:17.29 | JeffM2501 | or be taken as a joke |
| 01:18.03 | Constitution | updates, yes. but wzflag will be an entirely different game |
| 01:18.11 | patlkli | OSS will never be really better than commercial games, programs etc. |
| 01:18.35 | patlkli | i say the same as Constitution |
| 01:18.40 | Think_Differentl | patlkli: not entirely true |
| 01:18.58 | JeffM2501 | it can't be untill somone trys:) |
| 01:19.05 | tadd | BZFLAG has certain advantages. For one thing it runs on multiple platforms. there are few if any commercial games that do that. |
| 01:19.10 | patlkli | wzflag (3ps) != bzflag (fps) |
| 01:19.25 | hobbsc | part of the beauty of bzflag is it's simplicity |
| 01:19.31 | hobbsc | you take that out of the game, and it's not bzflag anymore |
| 01:19.51 | purple_cow | duh. why do you think the name is changing? |
| 01:19.59 | hobbsc | and i think it's ridiculous that you're trying to hold on to the domain if you're changing the entire project |
| 01:20.07 | hobbsc | why not release it to whomever picks up legacy development |
| 01:20.12 | hobbsc | and why hasn't tim been notified? |
| 01:20.20 | patlkli | JeffM2501, would you go on developing bzflag if nobody wants wzflag anymore? |
| 01:20.21 | Constitution | hobbsc: very aptly-termed, "try" :-) |
| 01:20.23 | JeffM2501 | because we took it over from him |
| 01:20.32 | hobbsc | how? |
| 01:20.37 | hobbsc | this whole mess seems very underhanded |
| 01:20.55 | JeffM2501 | he's not the only project admin |
| 01:21.01 | hobbsc | your statement to me was that tim will find out when he logs in |
| 01:21.08 | hobbsc | i think he should've been included in the discussion |
| 01:21.14 | hobbsc | you shouldn't simply assume that he'd be ok with it |
| 01:21.18 | JeffM2501 | why? he never does anything on the project |
| 01:21.22 | JeffM2501 | your new, you don't know how it works |
| 01:21.27 | hobbsc | but he did created it |
| 01:21.29 | hobbsc | create* |
| 01:21.36 | hobbsc | new or not, i've been playing for years |
| 01:21.41 | JeffM2501 | NO HE DID NOT |
| 01:21.42 | hobbsc | i just now became semi-active in the community |
| 01:21.45 | Constitution | JeffM2501: the maintainer dictates the direction the project takes, period |
| 01:21.47 | JeffM2501 | you don't even know the history |
| 01:21.49 | trepan | crs23? |
| 01:21.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:21.54 | Constitution | like you said, this isn't a democracy |
| 01:21.57 | JeffM2501 | tim was just a luccky guy |
| 01:22.02 | JeffM2501 | cus I left for a bit |
| 01:22.36 | patlkli | JeffM2501, no project can stay alive if all admins want to do what THEY want |
| 01:23.23 | KTL | but someone needs to have a vision too |
| 01:23.52 | patlkli | KTL, but not one which destroys the complete project |
| 01:23.54 | JeffM2501 | tim won't be an admin for long |
| 01:23.56 | tadd | Is there a description of the changes proposed for the codebase? |
| 01:24.03 | JeffM2501 | if he agrees he'll be in, if not he'll be out |
| 01:24.05 | patlkli | you should make a second project |
| 01:24.14 | hobbsc | exactly |
| 01:24.18 | JeffM2501 | he didn't do much anyway |
| 01:24.20 | hobbsc | "wzflag" should be a branch |
| 01:24.27 | tadd | aside from what has gone on here so far? wzflag I mean? |
| 01:24.27 | JeffM2501 | are you an admin? |
| 01:24.38 | hobbsc | bzflag shouldn't have to be a legacy project just because you think it's not a fun game anymore |
| 01:24.43 | JeffM2501 | I have to go |
| 01:24.50 | tadd | is who an admin? |
| 01:24.51 | JeffM2501 | you can "should" all you want |
| 01:25.03 | JeffM2501 | this is the way this project is going, deal with it |
| 01:25.13 | JeffM2501 | if you want to fork for, just don't use our resrouces for it |
| 01:25.16 | JeffM2501 | end of storry |
| 01:25.31 | patlkli | hmm |
| 01:25.35 | KTL | mmm |
| 01:25.39 | tadd | hmm |
| 01:25.41 | Constitution | hmm |
| 01:25.44 | hobbsc | this is crazy |
| 01:25.52 | patlkli | let's see what the "resources" say about that |
| 01:26.04 | tadd | Constitution... I read your posting that you lunk in a while ago. Is there a posting that describes wzflag as well? |
| 01:26.04 | Hannibal | hobbsc, get used to it. the whole world is crazy. |
| 01:26.12 | tadd | are they really going to call it wzflag and not bzflag? |
| 01:26.14 | patlkli | i hope, that jeff will have to develop wzflag ALONE |
| 01:26.32 | Constitution | tadd: lunk? |
| 01:26.42 | tadd | yes. past tense of link |
| 01:26.45 | hobbsc | tadd: i hope for the sake of the game that they do |
| 01:26.52 | Constitution | oh |
| 01:26.54 | tadd | me too. |
| 01:27.01 | tadd | I think that bzflag has advantages over all of the competition |
| 01:27.06 | tadd | i worry for those advantages |
| 01:27.15 | hobbsc | you're preaching to the choir |
| 01:27.27 | tadd | I also see that many potential contributers leave bzflag to play other games that are more flashy |
| 01:27.31 | Constitution | I cannot speak for wzflag... I guess just check out http://www.bzflag.org for that... big announcement on home page |
| 01:27.37 | patlkli | Constitution, do u write code of bzflag too? |
| 01:27.41 | tadd | there is room in this universe for many directions |
| 01:27.45 | trepan | i wouldn't get so worked up on apr01 |
| 01:28.06 | Constitution | patlkli: I've written several patches and plugins, although I'm not a core developer by any means |
| 01:28.07 | hobbsc | that's what i'm hoping for, an elaborate hoax |
| 01:28.07 | tadd | I am really against the idea of destroying what is to make the new, especially since we are talking about bits and not real estate |
| 01:28.26 | Constitution | I only wish :-( |
| 01:28.29 | *** join/#bzflag H0ley (n=H0ley@adsl-71-135-10-145.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 01:28.29 | patlkli | Constitution, who is core developer at all? |
| 01:28.33 | Constitution | but it's on the warzone site too |
| 01:29.04 | Constitution | patlkli, hard to name them all... |
| 01:29.56 | Constitution | but several are TimRiker, JeffM2501, DTRemenak, brlcad, purple_cow, menotume (I think), JBdiGriz (I think), atupone, Manu, and others |
| 01:30.05 | tadd | by 3rd person, JeffM meant that you drive one tank from the outside? or did he mean you'd organize your team and let the bots run it? What does it mean? |
| 01:30.24 | purple_cow | camera is outside the tank |
| 01:30.51 | tadd | ok. so that's not such a big deal. I keep thinking of games where you run a whole armada and you never really get down to the individual gun shot |
| 01:30.55 | tadd | that would be different |
| 01:31.04 | patlkli | http://wz2100.net/wzflagscreenshots.html |
| 01:31.10 | patlkli | that's horrible |
| 01:31.21 | tadd | I saw the screenshots. they look nice. Expensive, but nice |
| 01:31.26 | tadd | expensive resource-wise. |
| 01:31.35 | patlkli | that's not (w/b)zflag, that's counterstrike |
| 01:31.53 | tadd | I am really happy with the multi-platform nature of bzflag and the fact that 10 different computers in my house can play it. |
| 01:32.02 | Constitution | lol the targetting box is still on even with 3rd person |
| 01:32.03 | Constitution | *targeting |
| 01:32.18 | tadd | yeah. seems like 1st person-ish |
| 01:32.49 | tadd | I'm a firmware developer. I don't do C++. Also I am recently working for a start-up and don't have time to play hobbies, much. But that will change again. |
| 01:32.53 | JBdiGriz | Constitution: developers are listed on the sourceforge site. |
| 01:32.55 | patlkli | Constitution, image manipulating? |
| 01:32.58 | tadd | my son is getting to the age where daddy -and-me programming could work. |
| 01:33.19 | patlkli | ... |
| 01:34.02 | tadd | these screen shots look like somebody took some other game and pasted bzflag text and HUD on top of it. |
| 01:34.03 | Constitution | patlkli, more likely just some *really* sloppy code merging efforts ;-) |
| 01:34.51 | Constitution | yeah I don't quite understand myself how the merge will work... which code base will be incorporated into the other |
| 01:34.55 | patlkli | is WZ2100 wzflag already? |
| 01:35.07 | patlkli | if yes, i download it and try it |
| 01:35.22 | Constitution | http://wz2100.net/news.html |
| 01:35.25 | purple_cow | nothing's been released |
| 01:36.30 | patlkli | i'll try that wz2100 |
| 01:38.25 | patlkli | Constitution, you could start a poll in the forums about wzflag |
| 01:38.35 | patlkli | who likes, who don't etc. |
| 01:38.52 | patlkli | ack |
| 01:39.11 | tadd | question: What's bad about the proposed game? |
| 01:39.12 | patlkli | it's 3:38am here |
| 01:39.13 | Constitution | yes, but I'm afraid that JeffM2501 (who's a moderator of the forums) will interfere :-( |
| 01:39.13 | Constitution | my original branch announcement was really close to getting removed |
| 01:39.20 | Think_Differentl | i need chocolate. |
| 01:39.58 | tadd | http://code.google.com/p/bzflag/ doesn't seem to work. |
| 01:40.09 | patlkli | tadd, it's not bzflag anymore |
| 01:40.11 | *** join/#bzflag Tropican8 (i=user@c-69-137-19-228.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:40.32 | patlkli | and i don't think that google will support WZFlag.... |
| 01:40.37 | patlkli | they wanted bzflag |
| 01:40.54 | tadd | ok. that's what it says on http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=105391 can you edit the link? or did you mean that there is no such link anymore? |
| 01:41.03 | tadd | ic. |
| 01:41.05 | patlkli | WZFlag in GSoC *horrible* |
| 01:41.21 | tadd | so what resources are needed? What was google doing for us? |
| 01:42.32 | Constitution | ironically, Google will be hosting the legacy branch of BZFlag at http://code.google.com/p/bzflag (although it looks like it hasn't been completely set up yet on Google's end). |
| 01:42.44 | tadd | ok |
| 01:43.00 | tadd | does that hosting include CVS or something like it? Or is that still on sourceforge? |
| 01:43.20 | tadd | or is it a forum? or software distribution site? |
| 01:43.33 | Constitution | but the GSoC was a different thing completely |
| 01:43.35 | Constitution | tadd: yes, I believe Google will do all that |
| 01:43.35 | Constitution | everything: svn, forums, etc. |
| 01:44.51 | tadd | I'm sorry for being so lame with my knowledge of OSS.. I've never really been involved before. I have been coding in the commercial arena since I got married and before that I had never heard of OSS outside of universities. |
| 01:45.00 | tadd | I've been coding since 1979. |
| 01:45.32 | L4m3r | BZFlag isn't written in BASIC |
| 01:45.43 | tadd | C++.. yes. |
| 01:45.47 | tadd | almost baseic |
| 01:45.50 | tadd | basic |
| 01:45.50 | L4m3r | kidding :P |
| 01:46.21 | tadd | so what does sourceforge do? I thought they hosted the source control database |
| 01:46.54 | KTL | this is a very bad moment for a differnce in opinion with that google money coming |
| 01:46.57 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:47.12 | tadd | google, MONEY? |
| 01:47.15 | tadd | first i've heard of this.. |
| 01:47.25 | KTL | well, half the money for a student |
| 01:47.33 | KTL | goes to his mentor no? |
| 01:48.10 | Constitution | KTL, I believe $500 to mentoring org, $4500 to student |
| 01:48.22 | KTL | ok, sounds more reasonable |
| 01:48.24 | KTL | but still |
| 01:48.25 | tadd | and what is this money for? Hours? |
| 01:48.33 | KTL | what are they going to do? work on wz or bz? |
| 01:49.34 | KTL | I guess somehow project leader has to rapport to google that they worked well? |
| 01:49.37 | tadd | this is part of the "summer of code" ?? |
| 01:49.51 | KTL | the money is gsoc yes |
| 01:49.56 | tadd | oic |
| 01:49.58 | Think_Differentl | http://wz2100.net/forum/index.php?topic=542.msg4439#msg4439 |
| 01:50.23 | tadd | I hate it when people put money into what is otherwise a volunteer effort. |
| 01:50.36 | tadd | It almost always causes pain and many steps backwards in the effort to recruit volunteers. |
| 01:50.43 | Think_Differentl | i still think its a joke. |
| 01:50.56 | tadd | I'm inclined to run away for a year or so just because of this. |
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| 01:51.03 | tadd | I didn't know that money was pledged. |
| 01:51.05 | tadd | crap |
| 01:51.24 | Think_Differentl | tadd: No one will ever know how much of them were true believers... |
| 01:51.32 | *** part/#bzflag Tropican8 (i=user@c-69-137-19-228.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:51.42 | patlkli | good night all |
| 01:51.48 | Think_Differentl | goodnight. |
| 01:51.49 | patlkli | we can't change it |
| 01:52.09 | patlkli | jeff want to do it, he is arrogant, so he will do |
| 01:52.14 | patlkli | gn8 Think_Differentl |
| 01:52.31 | KTL | when is 1 april over in america? it is 03:52 in europe ... |
| 01:52.43 | tadd | 2 more hours on the east coast. 5 on the west |
| 01:52.53 | tadd | 8 for alaska |
| 01:53.22 | tadd | speaking of which, did anybody see "Google's TiSP (BETA)" ?? |
| 01:53.29 | tadd | it's on the http://www.google.com page |
| 01:53.53 | KTL | tips? |
| 01:54.13 | tadd | TISP. It's wireless networking running in your sewer pipes. Very funny stuff. |
| 01:54.26 | KTL | 8D |
| 01:54.40 | tadd | many pages including a FAQ. Worth the 10 minutes |
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| 01:56.52 | KTL | GFlushâ„¢ |
| 01:57.58 | KTL | factory-trained, sub-contracted nanobots |
| 02:00.24 | tadd | gn all |
| 02:00.49 | Think_Differentl | gn |
| 02:03.46 | KTL | gn |
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| 02:48.10 | KTL | must be 1 april |
| 02:49.21 | KTL | i hate 1 april :D |
| 02:49.36 | PuMpErNiCkLe | sshhhh |
| 02:50.00 | Think_Differentl | hehe |
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| 03:13.53 | rob1n | hey! bzflag moved to SVN! |
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| 03:14.30 | KTL | lol |
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| 05:01.43 | KTL | aargh |
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| 07:53.45 | Rawk | there's a cheater on Lasermania |
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| 07:58.41 | Rawk | soory guys, back |
| 07:58.47 | Rawk | *sorry |
| 08:00.34 | Rawk | hmm, no one on there now |
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| 08:26.04 | sicshooter | Hello all |
| 08:27.44 | sicshooter | I've been having a lot of issues with teleporters sealing me, requiring a self destruct. I'm trying to compile the current 2.0.9 svn sources, but make install gives me errors about /usr/share/man/man5 not existing. Creating it manually doesn't fix the issue whether I create it as a file or directory...can anyone give me any info on how to work around this or compile without man? |
| 08:29.12 | sicshooter | I'm running archlinux and I've searched for any man related packages I might be missing, but no help there |
| 08:31.33 | Manu | sicshooter: you don't need to install it to run bzflag |
| 08:32.01 | sicshooter | I see...I'll try again without the make install...thanks manu :) |
| 08:32.15 | Manu | you simply do: src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 08:33.42 | Manu | sicshooter: about the teleporter issue I guess it's a bug |
| 08:33.50 | sicshooter | I'll give that a try...I'm hoping upgrading from 2.0.8 to 2.0.9 will fix my issue, though researching it leads me to believe that no one really knows what causes that bug... |
| 08:34.17 | Manu | I know this bug, it's there since ever ;) |
| 08:34.42 | sicshooter | Every time I start doing good on lasermania someone starts slaughtering me with gm and I have no defense against it lol |
| 08:36.04 | Manu | sicshooter: to run bzflag you only need the bzflag executabla and the data dir IIRC |
| 08:36.06 | Manu | executable* |
| 08:36.53 | sicshooter | I've had it suggested that I try -O1 or O0 instead of O2, so I'm going to play with it a bit and see if that has any effect on my issue |
| 08:38.52 | sicshooter | If it were only teleporters it wouldn't be a big issue, but some textures cause the issue too...the treads on the Two Tanks map, the bridge in the maze race map...it seems that more and more maps are using textures that freeze me |
| 08:39.55 | L4m3r | I've had some odd map-related crashes too |
| 08:40.25 | L4m3r | I once made a mod of Spiralzone with CTF and water, and it crashed any 2.0.6+ client we tested it with |
| 08:40.45 | L4m3r | anytime you got close to a flag |
| 08:41.28 | sicshooter | It's strange, it's not a hit and miss thing...if a texture seals me once it will every time |
| 08:42.43 | L4m3r | you're not the only one who has had sealing issues on two tanks either |
| 08:43.38 | L4m3r | linux in particular tends to be problematic, especially with binaries. the debian packages never seem to work right for me. |
| 08:44.19 | L4m3r | but hey, if it's one less distraction when I work in Linux I guess it's not so bad :P |
| 08:53.00 | sicshooter | lol |
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| 08:54.07 | sicshooter | eh...I've been asking rfor advice on this issue for 6 months and the only ideas I've gotten was to change the c flags from -O2 to 1 or 0, but I just tried both and it doesn't seem to change anything |
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| 11:22.29 | niels_ | Where does one report spam on the wikipage? http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/CurrentMaintainer http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/CurrentMaintainer |
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| 11:35.05 | patlkli | head -> desk |
| 11:35.22 | patlkli | a sooo bad april joke..... |
| 11:47.48 | Manu | :) |
| 11:49.00 | patlkli | well, it discussed here in channel from 1:00am to 3:45am so it was 2nd april already |
| 11:49.08 | patlkli | *I discussed |
| 11:50.19 | Manu | is not a bad joke :) |
| 11:50.56 | patlkli | ? |
| 11:51.20 | Manu | April fool's joke |
| 11:52.22 | patlkli | an april fool's joke is most time just a bad joke |
| 11:52.46 | Manu | yes, for the victims ;) |
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| 11:53.21 | patlkli | Manu: yes, and I AM a victim :-'( |
| 11:53.24 | patlkli | :P |
| 11:53.28 | Manu | hi CBG` iCBG_ :) |
| 11:53.38 | Manu | patlkli: I know ;) |
| 11:54.15 | patlkli | I need something to drink (I'm away for 2mins) |
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| 11:55.19 | CBG` | :P Manu |
| 11:55.21 | CBG` | 4 CBGs?! :O :P |
| 11:55.45 | CBG` | better? :) |
| 11:57.32 | Manu | yep |
| 11:57.46 | patlkli | mhm |
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| 13:23.45 | brlcad | april 1st is our one day to goof off with the collective player community |
| 13:23.54 | brlcad | because you know every other day is all business |
| 13:24.14 | Manu | good morning brlcad :) |
| 13:25.50 | brlcad | good morning! |
| 13:26.08 | patlkli | hi brlcad |
| 13:26.24 | KTL | grmbl |
| 13:26.55 | Manu | hi KTL :) |
| 13:27.05 | KTL | manu you went to bed on time yesterday |
| 13:27.23 | KTL | the moment i was in a "1 april is over mode" it just started in america. |
| 13:27.24 | Manu | KTL: what happened? |
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| 13:27.31 | Manu | ah :) |
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| 13:28.20 | KTL | ah and i got a whole pcroom working for my raytracer now using mpi:) 68 cpu's at this moment rendering for me :D |
| 13:29.00 | KTL | all begging for horizontal lines of the picture to be rendered, a master node collecting the lines and distributing the work to the slaves :D |
| 13:29.31 | hobbsc | good job with the joke, guys. you really got my blood pressure up |
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| 13:35.14 | tadd | so what part of yesterday's conversation was joke? I still see WZFlag SVN and Google summer of code announcements. I'm still scared. |
| 13:35.55 | tadd | WZFlag merging was the joke? |
| 13:36.01 | donny_baker | yes |
| 13:36.02 | tadd | but Google Summer of Code was SERIOUS??? AAAAAH |
| 13:36.05 | Manu | nah ;) |
| 13:36.10 | tadd | oh. |
| 13:36.11 | tadd | good. |
| 13:36.15 | tadd | GSOC scares me |
| 13:36.25 | hobbsc | i was wondering why jeff was being such a jerk |
| 13:36.34 | hobbsc | i kind of wondered if it was a joke, but he played it well |
| 13:36.53 | Manu | hobbsc: WZFlag was the joke |
| 13:36.57 | tadd | I was not understanding. I don't get earth humor much of the time. |
| 13:37.04 | hobbsc | Manu: i'm aware |
| 13:39.22 | tadd | now THIS: http://www.google.com/tisp/ was a funny April fools joke |
| 13:41.03 | Pommes | lol |
| 13:41.22 | hobbsc | the gmail paper one was pretty funny too |
| 13:41.34 | tadd | ah yes. |
| 13:41.37 | Pommes | where |
| 13:41.43 | tadd | I saw a bunch of things on slashdot including that one |
| 13:41.56 | hobbsc | http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html |
| 13:42.03 | tadd | and the tisp joke |
| 13:42.41 | tadd | too bad they can't print WMA files |
| 13:43.04 | tadd | Not a problem. Gmail Paper is made out of 96% post-consumer organic soybean sputum, and thus, actually helps the environment. For every Gmail Paper we produce, the environment gets incrementally healthier. |
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| 13:46.58 | blast007 | tadd: GSoC is actually happening |
| 13:47.25 | tadd | ah well. |
| 13:48.17 | blast007 | http://code.google.com/soc/bzflag/about.html |
| 13:49.14 | tadd | I was involved in an all volunteer radio group in the 90s that suddenly has outside funding (because of the wonderful works the group had done that just needed a little push). The region that would benefit was limited to NY State, a large part of the region covered by the group. Within 2 years all progress in NY stopped and the 'volunteer group' started attracting the worst scum and divisiveness. It wasn't fun. |
| 13:49.36 | blast007 | um, ok |
| 13:49.46 | blast007 | that's not relevant to this though |
| 13:50.27 | blast007 | GSoC is designed to give students real world experience working with a team of developers |
| 13:50.32 | tadd | perhaps not but it still feels scary. |
| 13:50.40 | blast007 | why? |
| 13:50.42 | tadd | yeah. good intentions never hurt anybody. |
| 13:50.44 | tadd | haha. |
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| 13:51.46 | tadd | GSoC sounds like a great idea. I can easily see it being good for students. |
| 13:51.58 | tadd | I don't see it being good for the target volunteer group. |
| 13:53.44 | tadd | As soon as money, or paid individuals, is/are available for a project some percentage of the people, formerly involved or otherwise, start figuring out how 'best to spend it' which is not going to be the same answer as how to volunteer one's own time. It will change the shape of the project. |
| 13:53.44 | blast007 | tadd: this isn't an "everyone gets paid for stuff" |
| 13:53.48 | tadd | clearly. It's a some people get paid for stuff. |
| 13:53.53 | blast007 | we review the ones that put in an aplication |
| 13:54.12 | tadd | ok. I'm not trying to preach against it. I'm was just scared by it. |
| 13:54.14 | brlcad | tadd: i put money into the project every month, not much concern on how it's spent because the options are limited :) |
| 13:54.29 | tadd | I'd never have noticed except for the April fools joke of the other part. |
| 13:54.30 | brlcad | everyone's time is worth a lot more than gsoc affords |
| 13:55.03 | tadd | ok. |
| 13:56.23 | tadd | I really love bzflag and not the least for the fact that there are responsible people keeping an eye on the public communications that surround it. This scores well above some of the other on-line communities. |
| 13:56.59 | tadd | so for all that put their time into this: THANK YOU!! |
| 13:58.29 | CBG` | tadd: here's how it works - someone correct me if I'm wrong - students apply to work on the project. he bz devs select 1 or more of the applicants and "give them the job". google pays the selected students to do the work. end of story. |
| 13:58.29 | tadd | arly cell-phone implant prototypes had functioning screens made from organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs) implanted in the back of the hand. However, this system had a number of drawbacks: |
| 13:58.44 | tadd | sounds cool. |
| 14:00.12 | tadd | the above was part of an April fools joke on howstuffworks.com about how cell-phone implants work. |
| 14:01.10 | blast007 | heh |
| 14:01.13 | tadd | CSC, I'm sorry I sounded preachy before. I didn't mean to. |
| 14:01.51 | tadd | Or perhaps I did mean to but I shouldn't have meant to. or something like that. |
| 14:10.47 | brlcad | tadd: bzflag's always been about the community, nature of the beast |
| 14:10.48 | brlcad | everyone wants to improve the game, have fun, etc :) |
| 14:10.48 | tadd | I appreciate that tremendously. |
| 14:11.51 | tadd | I help where and when I can. |
| 14:12.15 | tadd | try to help... |
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| 15:08.37 | JBdiGriz | brlcad: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/pearls |
| 15:10.36 | brlcad | hehe |
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| 16:04.34 | Arsage2 | Do you guys know what name "Sean" goes by on IRC? |
| 16:05.51 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 16:05.55 | JeffM2501 | that's brlcad/learner |
| 16:06.15 | Arsage2 | Any idea what hours he keeps? He left a reply on my proposal, and i'd like to get a chat in with him. :) |
| 16:06.18 | Arsage2 | (keeps on here) |
| 16:06.29 | JeffM2501 | he's eastcost US |
| 16:06.30 | JeffM2501 | tho late |
| 16:06.36 | JeffM2501 | he should be in here in a couple hours. |
| 16:06.54 | Arsage2 | Great, thanks. :) |
| 16:07.26 | JeffM2501 | what project was it? |
| 16:08.50 | TheRedBaron | Arsage2: he was on a bit earlier, and he reads the scrollback/backlogs |
| 16:09.24 | Arsage2 | It was the dead reckoning project. I'll shoot him a message back and try to correlate something :). |
| 16:09.27 | JBdiGriz | I just write a message to him, and he replys when he gets a chance. |
| 16:09.34 | CBG | he was around 2 hours back and will be back again when he's available, I'm sure. |
| 16:09.52 | JBdiGriz | He replied to me about an hour ago. |
| 16:10.08 | JeffM2501 | ahh, he wants more info about you |
| 16:10.18 | JeffM2501 | your coding experience, and schooling |
| 16:10.29 | JeffM2501 | we've had to ask a couple peopl to fill that in |
| 16:10.41 | Arsage2 | Ok, nods. |
| 16:10.44 | JBdiGriz | There are also a number of other people involved with the project, so you can probably get most of the information you need now. |
| 16:11.07 | JeffM2501 | huh, he changed mentorships around too |
| 16:11.11 | JeffM2501 | I used to be your mentor |
| 16:11.29 | Arsage2 | Probably cause you're the only name I mentioned in the proposal? |
| 16:11.51 | JeffM2501 | naw |
| 16:12.07 | JeffM2501 | he's trying to ballance out what we got |
| 16:12.13 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 16:12.19 | Arsage2 | nod |
| 16:12.51 | JeffM2501 | for us the "mentor" will mostly just be the person who writes up the review, we will provide code/design help as a team |
| 16:12.54 | JeffM2501 | just like we do nomrlay |
| 16:13.04 | JeffM2501 | we don't realy have people who "own" sections of the code |
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| 16:13.15 | JeffM2501 | as much as they want to pin the API on me |
| 16:13.17 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 16:14.51 | JBdiGriz | EGAD! You've drawn quite a taskmaster as a mentor. He's probably the most opinionated and critical person around. |
| 16:16.29 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 16:16.32 | SportChick | hehe |
| 16:16.40 | JeffM2501 | better hope you use a mac dude |
| 16:16.54 | JeffM2501 | and how'd you get 2? |
| 16:16.57 | SportChick | ~rescue Arsage2 |
| 16:17.01 | ibot | ACTION leaps into certain danger to rescue Arsage2 and return Arsage2 to safety! |
| 16:17.06 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 16:17.08 | JeffM2501 | yeah I see why |
| 16:17.13 | SportChick | yeah |
| 16:17.13 | JBdiGriz | Any unix platform will do. :D |
| 16:17.15 | SportChick | I saw that too |
| 16:17.15 | JeffM2501 | ok, makes sense |
| 16:17.39 | JBdiGriz | OTOH, it better be emacs..... |
| 16:18.10 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, did you finish your rankings? |
| 16:18.53 | JBdiGriz | I believe I ranked most of the proposals which would have some interest to me, but I'm still looking at a few more. |
| 16:19.33 | JBdiGriz | I'm not really into pretty graphics. |
| 16:19.37 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 16:19.45 | JeffM2501 | just like I'm not much into that webwork |
| 16:20.04 | JeffM2501 | or the scriping stuff |
| 16:20.57 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 16:21.00 | Manu | heh |
| 16:21.39 | JeffM2501 | when do we have to submit our SoC List? end of this week? |
| 16:21.51 | Arsage2 | The date it says we get notice is the 11th |
| 16:21.54 | JBdiGriz | I really enjoyed the commentary about you after you left the room. ;) |
| 16:22.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah I figured it musta been fun |
| 16:22.09 | JeffM2501 | it in logs? |
| 16:22.27 | JeffM2501 | I had to go watch Casino Royale |
| 16:22.39 | JBdiGriz | Of course, you really should go check it out. There was about to be an uprising of the newcomers. |
| 16:22.46 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 16:22.55 | JeffM2501 | ibot logs |
| 16:22.58 | ibot | hmm... logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 16:23.20 | JBdiGriz | My kids bought the DVD for me for my birthday. My Bond collection is complete again. |
| 16:24.03 | JeffM2501 | I think it was after midnight GMT, so it's not in the logs till tomorow |
| 16:25.51 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:25.52 | CBG | What was going on last night? Munchkins angry about WZFlag? |
| 16:26.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 16:26.37 | Arsage2 | facebook.com made me flip pretty good yesterday, they said that Florida and OSU agreed to a tie in the championship game and I believe it for hours.. |
| 16:26.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:27.09 | Erroneous | heh |
| 16:27.49 | CBG | what timezone are those logs on? |
| 16:28.31 | Erroneous | which logs? ibot's? |
| 16:28.38 | CBG | seems to be GMT+1 / BST |
| 16:28.41 | CBG | yep, Erroneous |
| 16:28.57 | Erroneous | there'd be no reason for them to be on anything other than GMT or MST |
| 16:29.57 | CBG | ah, yes, GMT, my bad |
| 16:30.21 | JeffM2501 | yeah GMT |
| 16:30.32 | JeffM2501 | anyone have local logs for it? |
| 16:31.11 | CBG | Actually, yes. |
| 16:31.14 | CBG | gimme a couple mins |
| 16:32.02 | tadd | I have from 8:33PM EST |
| 16:32.21 | tadd | it is Colloquy form (xml-looking), if anybody wants it |
| 16:33.19 | CBG | logs starting where ibot stops, until now: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/421093 |
| 16:33.32 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 16:34.24 | brlcad | he's around, just doing other stuff too |
| 16:36.18 | JeffM2501 | oh man, how are those crap screenshots from warzone "expensive resource wise" :) |
| 16:37.09 | tadd | the screenshots aren't expensive, the gameplay would be, compared to bzflag, no? |
| 16:37.17 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 16:37.31 | JeffM2501 | there "engine" seems simialr to ours |
| 16:37.33 | tadd | Sounds like fun then. |
| 16:38.41 | tadd | <JeffM2501> hey I've always said bzflag should die, this is the fastest way |
| 16:38.47 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 16:39.11 | tadd | =8^) |
| 16:41.02 | JeffM2501 | it would be too :) |
| 16:42.02 | patlkli | JeffM2501: oh, well, about your joke: Great organisation.... good work! |
| 16:42.06 | JeffM2501 | wasn't my idea |
| 16:42.12 | JeffM2501 | I was just playing along |
| 16:42.47 | JeffM2501 | IIRC it was the warzone reserection people who came up with the idea |
| 16:43.23 | JeffM2501 | I just had the play the part of the jerk, so I did |
| 16:43.46 | Arsage2 | hehe, that's a fun read. |
| 16:45.38 | JeffM2501 | it was a good joke idea, as it was all feasable and possible |
| 16:46.15 | Erroneous | yup, that went well |
| 16:46.17 | *** join/#bzflag Arsage (n=lee137@pool-71-98-111-167.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 16:46.32 | Erroneous | though the warzone people deserve most of the credit :) |
| 16:46.34 | patlkli | JeffM2501: who did know about it? all project admins? |
| 16:46.45 | JeffM2501 | dunno if Tim had any clue |
| 16:46.56 | JeffM2501 | tho that's somewhat nomral :\ |
| 16:47.36 | Erroneous | patlkli: at the time of posting, brlcad, JeffM2501, and myself. shortly thereafter, several others. |
| 16:48.11 | brlcad | did tim even see it? |
| 16:48.16 | Erroneous | doubt it |
| 16:48.19 | brlcad | I didn't save the text or anything |
| 16:48.22 | Erroneous | someone took a screenshot of the website |
| 16:48.24 | Arsage | The Google april fools joke was pretty good too, I was actually excited about it for a while. |
| 16:48.46 | Erroneous | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/files/picture_2_277.png |
| 16:49.05 | patlkli | Arsage: what was it?? |
| 16:49.17 | SportChick | tisp |
| 16:49.24 | CBG | I was expecting something, since there's been a joke every april fools that I've been around. |
| 16:49.27 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 16:49.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 16:49.33 | SportChick | ~tacklehug tupone |
| 16:49.35 | ibot | ACTION gets a running start and tacklehugs tupone |
| 16:49.35 | Arsage | They announced a new Isp, tISP, where you bought this kit and flushed the fiber cable down your toilet |
| 16:49.46 | tadd | TISP http://www.google.com/tisp/ |
| 16:49.46 | Arsage | to get into the sewage pipeline, haha. |
| 16:50.02 | SportChick | the gmail one was pretty good too |
| 16:50.12 | JeffM2501 | someone at google must have gone to a blueman show |
| 16:50.14 | tadd | GMAIL PAPER: http://mail.google.com/mail/help/paper/more.html |
| 16:51.55 | JeffM2501 | now is the warzone project realy in trouble with no devs? |
| 16:52.05 | JeffM2501 | what was about the "resurection" project ? |
| 16:52.20 | CBG | did they have as many angry munchkins as "us"? |
| 16:52.26 | JeffM2501 | that part I wasn't paying attention to. |
| 16:52.47 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: warzone was originally a commercial game (Pumpkin/Eidos) |
| 16:52.53 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 16:52.54 | Erroneous | it was GPLed a while back |
| 16:52.55 | patlkli | JeffM2501: can you tell me when you put flagGrab-Event back in 2.0.x ? |
| 16:53.09 | JeffM2501 | patlkli, just check the history |
| 16:53.19 | Erroneous | there are only a few devs working on the GPL fork (Warzone Resurrection Project) |
| 16:53.27 | JeffM2501 | I don't have the history in my head ;) |
| 16:53.28 | patlkli | JeffM2501: ? |
| 16:53.34 | JeffM2501 | the code history |
| 16:53.49 | JeffM2501 | every change is marked |
| 16:53.55 | JeffM2501 | just check the history of the header |
| 16:54.03 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, ahh ok |
| 16:54.14 | CBG | lol <brlcad> "Especially now that the real merger is under way." |
| 16:54.17 | patlkli | yessssss, but i want to have the newest version and in that flagGrab is not implemented |
| 16:54.25 | patlkli | :P |
| 16:54.29 | JeffM2501 | then it wasn't done in 2.0.x |
| 16:54.57 | patlkli | ... |
| 16:55.03 | JeffM2501 | damn, all they have is VC8 files for warzone |
| 16:55.24 | JeffM2501 | if it's not there, backport it |
| 16:55.41 | JeffM2501 | shouldn't be too ahrd |
| 16:55.42 | JeffM2501 | hard |
| 16:56.19 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: iirc they push mingw as the dev platform of choice for windows |
| 16:56.29 | JeffM2501 | and flat C |
| 16:56.37 | Erroneous | yup, all C |
| 16:56.43 | JeffM2501 | bye bye sourcecode |
| 16:57.07 | JeffM2501 | it at least openGL? |
| 16:57.12 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 16:59.09 | patlkli | JeffM2501: you should know, would a plug-in, compiled with 2.1.x bzfsAPI.h, work with bzfs2.0.9 |
| 16:59.11 | patlkli | ? |
| 16:59.15 | JeffM2501 | oh god no |
| 16:59.28 | patlkli | hmm |
| 16:59.40 | JeffM2501 | the API was changed for 2.1 |
| 16:59.43 | JeffM2501 | to be versioned |
| 16:59.50 | JeffM2501 | so that for 2.4 we will be able to go back |
| 17:00.06 | JeffM2501 | the 2.0.x API was the first shot at an API and wasn't well designed for the future. |
| 17:01.09 | patlkli | well, so i have to wait for 2.1.x |
| 17:01.21 | JeffM2501 | or backport the event |
| 17:01.29 | patlkli | and how? |
| 17:01.29 | JeffM2501 | and rebuild with a 2.0.x header and lib |
| 17:01.39 | JeffM2501 | umm, just put the event call code into 2.0.x |
| 17:02.15 | patlkli | the call code is in bzfsAPI.h too? |
| 17:02.26 | JeffM2501 | the data structure |
| 17:02.30 | JeffM2501 | and the event type |
| 17:02.40 | patlkli | hmm |
| 17:02.51 | JeffM2501 | ahh, I did flag grab for shot types, that'd be why it's not in 2.0.x :) |
| 17:02.56 | JeffM2501 | you'll have to take the shot types out |
| 17:03.18 | patlkli | shot types? |
| 17:03.20 | JeffM2501 | since they don't exist in 2.0.x |
| 17:03.30 | JeffM2501 | in dev, shot and flag types are seperate |
| 17:04.11 | JeffM2501 | what exactlyt are you trying to do in your plugin? |
| 17:04.48 | patlkli | imagine we have 5 players and player A grabs GM |
| 17:04.59 | patlkli | then everyone should get ST |
| 17:05.17 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 17:05.19 | patlkli | same with L + CL and OO + SB |
| 17:05.28 | JeffM2501 | you can cheap it easy if you want |
| 17:05.38 | JeffM2501 | install a tick handler, and just scan the players |
| 17:06.15 | patlkli | hmm |
| 17:06.30 | patlkli | tick event is not really useful in here i think |
| 17:06.34 | JeffM2501 | sure it is |
| 17:06.40 | JeffM2501 | you can scan the current flag |
| 17:06.53 | JeffM2501 | if it's GM, you know they picked it up inbetween the last tick |
| 17:06.56 | JeffM2501 | and do your thing |
| 17:07.51 | patlkli | ? i don't understand the world |
| 17:07.52 | JeffM2501 | the grab event is better, but since you don't have it, you can do it this way |
| 17:07.56 | JeffM2501 | what world? |
| 17:08.03 | JeffM2501 | you don't need to know about the world |
| 17:08.07 | JeffM2501 | it's just a list scan |
| 17:08.29 | Erroneous | heck, I have a hard time just understanding myself :) |
| 17:09.04 | patlkli | JeffM2501: yes, but i don't know whether the person had it already |
| 17:09.19 | JeffM2501 | save a state |
| 17:09.23 | JeffM2501 | in a little map |
| 17:09.31 | JeffM2501 | and reset it when they spawn |
| 17:10.49 | brlcad | Erroneous: understandably |
| 17:10.57 | patlkli | hmm, u mean i save the ones who have GM in an array, use spawn event, and check whether the player who spawned is in the array and delete him |
| 17:11.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:11.40 | JeffM2501 | then you can have a little state |
| 17:11.49 | JeffM2501 | and only do it when the bit is flipped |
| 17:13.10 | patlkli | hmm |
| 17:13.10 | Erroneous | just remember: flip bits, not burgers! |
| 17:14.15 | patlkli | grml |
| 17:14.15 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 17:14.22 | patlkli | now my head hurts |
| 17:14.28 | JeffM2501 | it's simple logic |
| 17:14.39 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 17:14.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:14.41 | JeffM2501 | don't have much experience in programing? |
| 17:14.59 | patlkli | i program for some years |
| 17:15.14 | JeffM2501 | then it's a smiple scan and store. |
| 17:15.42 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13957 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx): backport API events for flag grab and drop |
| 17:15.47 | JeffM2501 | tho the backport was easier ;) |
| 17:16.04 | patlkli | ... |
| 17:16.05 | patlkli | ty |
| 17:16.10 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:19.43 | JeffM2501 | seems I didn't doc grabb ether |
| 17:20.41 | patlkli | JeffM2501: i can read the bzfsAPI.h .... who cares about docs? |
| 17:20.56 | JeffM2501 | many people do |
| 17:21.09 | JeffM2501 | I did a writeup for drop that I added at the same time |
| 17:21.15 | JeffM2501 | maybe I put it in the shot type stuff |
| 17:22.19 | patlkli | hmm |
| 17:22.24 | patlkli | i have a inet prob |
| 17:22.41 | patlkli | i can't connect to my.bzflag.org |
| 17:22.43 | JeffM2501 | oh noes! |
| 17:24.04 | patlkli | how can i get the 2.0 branch with svn |
| 17:24.45 | JeffM2501 | /branches/v2_0branch/bzflag instead of /trunck/bzflag/ |
| 17:24.48 | donny_baker | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag |
| 17:25.36 | patlkli | ty |
| 17:27.48 | patlkli | mhm, i hate the "deutsche telekom" |
| 17:27.55 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 17:27.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:31.53 | patlkli | NOOO! |
| 17:32.09 | patlkli | i deleted the templates for the plugin |
| 17:32.34 | JeffM2501 | so get it back |
| 17:32.43 | patlkli | hmm |
| 17:33.49 | JeffM2501 | just trashcan or a full delete? |
| 17:33.59 | JeffM2501 | or did you update/overwrite it? |
| 17:35.11 | patlkli | oh well |
| 17:35.14 | patlkli | trash |
| 17:35.19 | JeffM2501 | so just pull it out |
| 17:37.05 | patlkli | well |
| 17:37.08 | patlkli | done |
| 17:37.28 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-052.ewetel.net) |
| 17:38.39 | patlkli | JeffM2501: do you use win, mac or linux? |
| 17:38.49 | JeffM2501 | I have used all 3 |
| 17:39.00 | JeffM2501 | at this moment I'm on windows |
| 17:39.08 | patlkli | and you prefer? |
| 17:39.18 | JeffM2501 | depends what i'm doing |
| 17:39.37 | JeffM2501 | getig paid or playing games, windows |
| 17:39.46 | JeffM2501 | hostin a webserver linux |
| 17:39.56 | patlkli | normally I like to develop on linux and win |
| 17:40.22 | JeffM2501 | the VC IDE fits my workflow better then makefiles. |
| 17:41.35 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 18:00.42 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=tangent@71-212-169-108.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 18:30.19 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@mmds-216-19-24-101.mm.az.commspeed.net) |
| 18:30.52 | JeffM2501 | now what was realy funny yesteday was everyone's assumption that bzflag is a democracy ;) |
| 18:31.14 | Manu | it's :p |
| 18:31.20 | Manu | hehe |
| 18:31.32 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: for all practical purposes, development operates on a consensus basis |
| 18:32.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah, but I meant with the community |
| 18:32.24 | JeffM2501 | we are a small group, that controlls who gets into the group, and then we generaly work on consensus, but not allways ;) |
| 18:32.31 | Erroneous | heh |
| 18:32.51 | Manu | yes, translate it to the comunity ;) |
| 18:33.06 | JeffM2501 | like the freemasons and the governments of the world |
| 18:33.13 | Erroneous | in general, we have been responsive to community opinion...it's not surprising that they just assume it's the way it should be :) |
| 18:33.24 | JeffM2501 | they may THINK they have a democracy, but well thre is just this group of people that do what is best :) |
| 18:33.57 | *** join/#bzflag fl0w (i=c82ace23@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-a3d19b3c4cfd54aa) |
| 18:34.03 | JeffM2501 | tho I do wonder about the legality of the name |
| 18:34.18 | JeffM2501 | since as you said, it was never trademarked |
| 18:34.19 | Erroneous | and if we weren't, well, it's easy to fork |
| 18:34.31 | JeffM2501 | does the GPL apply to the name? |
| 18:34.35 | JeffM2501 | or just the code |
| 18:34.49 | Manu | I guess it's only the code |
| 18:34.52 | Erroneous | just the code |
| 18:35.05 | Erroneous | copyleft is independent of trademark issues |
| 18:35.16 | JeffM2501 | so if I forked, and promted it as "the" bzflag, if tim wanted me to stop, he'd have some case. |
| 18:35.26 | JeffM2501 | since he is copyright holder |
| 18:35.41 | Erroneous | copyright is also independent of trademark issues |
| 18:35.46 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:35.54 | JeffM2501 | so he hold copyright on the name as well right? |
| 18:36.25 | Erroneous | heh, there is no copyright for a name...it is a trademark. since it's not registered, it's only covered under the most basic of protection |
| 18:36.37 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 18:36.45 | Erroneous | and probably by crs23 |
| 18:36.48 | JeffM2501 | so his ability to defend it may be limited. |
| 18:36.52 | JeffM2501 | intersting |
| 18:37.05 | JeffM2501 | wonder what type of ownership transfer tim got |
| 18:37.07 | JeffM2501 | if any |
| 18:37.07 | Erroneous | I don't know what the agreement between him and tim was |
| 18:37.34 | JeffM2501 | what is the basic trademark protection |
| 18:37.38 | tadd | there are the legal courts, and court of public opinion. Some weigh one above the other. |
| 18:37.48 | JeffM2501 | probably very limited since we don't charge any money for it, so there would be no "loss" |
| 18:37.55 | JeffM2501 | if somone ganked it |
| 18:38.15 | ts | Manu: In my country USA laws are seen as a joke ;) |
| 18:38.33 | Manu | in my country too ;) |
| 18:38.48 | Manu | and the patents make laugh |
| 18:39.01 | restorer | my country too :) (I live in the USA) |
| 18:39.02 | tadd | some USA laws (and patents) are considered jokes here as well |
| 18:39.04 | ts | the patent system is the worst one I have ever heard from |
| 18:39.05 | Manu | software patents I mean |
| 18:39.18 | Erroneous | basically it's protectable under goodwill clauses (tort) |
| 18:39.26 | tadd | what country had the oldest patent law system? and does it work? |
| 18:39.28 | ts | Manu: Not only software patents |
| 18:39.31 | JeffM2501 | wasn't intenting to make this a discusion on international law ;) |
| 18:39.40 | Manu | ts: I know :) |
| 18:39.47 | JeffM2501 | I just wonder, can you call a fork , bzflag? |
| 18:40.04 | tupone | patenting was invented here IIRC |
| 18:40.07 | tadd | Wikipedia says Florence |
| 18:40.08 | Manu | JeffM2501: it's realated.. one can use BZFlag in Spain with no problem , for example |
| 18:40.16 | Manu | no matter if it's registered in USA |
| 18:40.20 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:40.31 | ts | JeffM2501: Heh, basically we're all ignoring US right and patents here. They do not count anything ;) |
| 18:40.34 | JeffM2501 | wonder how that works with net stuff that can be done anywhere |
| 18:40.43 | Erroneous | Manu: not true...if it's registered, the Madrid Convention protects it |
| 18:40.51 | JeffM2501 | ts, and that has nothing to do with what I asked ;) |
| 18:41.00 | Manu | Erroneous: it depends ;) |
| 18:41.49 | JeffM2501 | it's probably based on the country that starts any litigation |
| 18:41.49 | Erroneous | Manu: we are using the trademark internationally, if it was registered, it would be protected |
| 18:41.49 | Manu | Erroneous: tell google ;) |
| 18:41.52 | Erroneous | since it's not, it's only protected in a few jurisdictions |
| 18:41.54 | ts | JeffM2501: It means it's different for every country. You may find some countries where you can pick up the name |
| 18:41.54 | Manu | they can use google in many european countries |
| 18:42.01 | Manu | they can't I mean |
| 18:42.26 | tupone | referring to gmail I guess |
| 18:42.29 | JeffM2501 | ts, I don't think that is the entire answer |
| 18:42.40 | Manu | tupone: yep |
| 18:43.26 | Erroneous | if it was in use locally before, then it's naturally not protected (first use) |
| 18:43.41 | Erroneous | bzflag is unique enough and old enough I doubt we'd have any such problem |
| 18:44.38 | Manu | Erroneous: bzflag sounds weird enough to be used in Spain so no problem ;) |
| 18:44.44 | Erroneous | Manu: hehe :) |
| 18:44.58 | JeffM2501 | market a soft drink there under taht name |
| 18:45.31 | Erroneous | soft drinks are a different market. if we had it registered it would probably be under the categories of software and video games |
| 18:45.37 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:45.42 | JeffM2501 | ok, a word processor |
| 18:45.55 | tadd | or a feature of a chat program |
| 18:46.02 | Erroneous | overlapping market, might get some protection there |
| 18:46.03 | JeffM2501 | a mini game in puzzle pirates |
| 18:46.05 | tadd | BusyFlag = BZFLAG |
| 18:46.07 | Manu | Erroneous: yes, it's the same here, you can register the mark for a determined use |
| 18:46.21 | Erroneous | Manu: the Madrid protocol requires it :) |
| 18:46.29 | Manu | I know |
| 18:46.29 | JeffM2501 | I'm gonna fork as YourMommaFlag anyway |
| 18:46.39 | tadd | there ya go |
| 18:46.44 | Erroneous | woot, yourmommaflag :) |
| 18:47.11 | JeffM2501 | and yourmommaflagd |
| 18:47.57 | Epyon | What about kitchen-sink-flag? |
| 18:48.08 | JeffM2501 | no, that's stupid |
| 18:48.14 | Erroneous | Epyon: you mean emacs? |
| 18:48.33 | Epyon | Hey, BZFlag can't be worse than nethack or emacs :p |
| 18:48.57 | JeffM2501 | sure it can |
| 18:49.20 | Manu | Epyon: let's see after the GSoC ;) |
| 18:49.34 | tadd | my daughter thinks we should make a girl-friendly GUI that makes the entire bzflag experience look like little cats running around flinging butterflies at each other. The trick is to make the client compatible with everybody else's tank-oriented clients. |
| 18:50.07 | JeffM2501 | umm.. yeah.. we'll get RIGHT on that. |
| 18:50.24 | tadd | in your infinite free time |
| 18:51.00 | tadd | after I get fired from my job I'll start working on it. and i will if I keep staring at this window |
| 18:51.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah I'll get on that after I get the fuel air missiles in |
| 18:51.49 | JeffM2501 | cus everyone likes burning cats |
| 18:55.52 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@pd9546ca2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:56.16 | Manu | SportChick: Judas flag? |
| 18:56.56 | Manu | SportChick: well I understand.. |
| 18:57.09 | Manu | :) |
| 18:59.13 | Manu | JeffM2501: there is no problem with CB and MQ you can disable it ;) |
| 18:59.54 | SportChick | Manu: a flag I suggested about 2 years ago or so |
| 19:00.07 | Manu | SportChick: you can tk with it? ;) |
| 19:00.17 | SportChick | Manu: sort of |
| 19:00.26 | Manu | hehe I figured it |
| 19:00.32 | SportChick | Manu: if you pick up the Judas flag, you'd automatically be on the other team |
| 19:00.39 | *** join/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:00.41 | Bz_Win | boop |
| 19:00.55 | Manu | SportChick: no sense in the league ;) |
| 19:01.10 | SportChick | Manu: not for leagues |
| 19:01.18 | JeffM2501 | Manu, as the game sits now, there is no problem, you are correct. |
| 19:01.19 | Constitution | does the new wiki have the flag suggestion list yet? |
| 19:01.26 | JeffM2501 | I have a problem with it with my changes I want to do :) |
| 19:01.29 | SportChick | Manu: it would be more for ctf/ffa servers but not leagues |
| 19:01.36 | Manu | JeffM2501: and IIRC you don't play bzflag, right? ;) |
| 19:01.38 | JeffM2501 | stuf would be easier of they weren't there |
| 19:01.47 | JeffM2501 | Manu, has that EVER mattered ;) |
| 19:01.52 | JeffM2501 | I'd play more if my changes were in |
| 19:01.53 | Manu | JeffM2501: ah, it makes sense :) |
| 19:02.18 | JeffM2501 | but realy Erroneous told me to not even worry about it :) |
| 19:02.24 | Manu | JeffM2501: really Masquerade is the most useles flag ever seen ;) |
| 19:02.33 | JeffM2501 | I think many agree with that |
| 19:02.37 | JeffM2501 | he wanted to keep CB tho |
| 19:02.48 | JeffM2501 | I did have an idea of how to keep it |
| 19:02.51 | Manu | my teammates also tk me without it ;) |
| 19:02.52 | JeffM2501 | and make it more intersting |
| 19:02.53 | Erroneous | I like CB |
| 19:03.05 | Erroneous | and I don't think your changes would damage it too badly |
| 19:03.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah probalby not |
| 19:03.20 | Erroneous | and you can yank MQ for all I care |
| 19:03.22 | JeffM2501 | now the world stays the same color with CB right? |
| 19:03.22 | RatOmeter | Manu: MQ is more useless than US? |
| 19:03.34 | Erroneous | RatOmeter: US is at least good for a laugh :P |
| 19:03.39 | Manu | RatOmeter: US is a nice flag ;) |
| 19:03.41 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: the world? yeah |
| 19:03.41 | SportChick | MQ and US are both useless :) |
| 19:03.42 | RatOmeter | heh, yes |
| 19:03.54 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, what if I made the entire view swap to black and white? ;) |
| 19:03.59 | JeffM2501 | true color blindness |
| 19:04.00 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 19:04.01 | Manu | SportChick: not really, while you have US you can't pick up bad flags ;) |
| 19:04.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 19:04.39 | SportChick | Manu: true |
| 19:04.47 | SportChick | but then you could always just not pick up ANY flags :) |
| 19:04.53 | Manu | SportChick: some times is good when you are going to pick up the team flag in a gate |
| 19:05.13 | Manu | what happens if you find OO before the team flag in a gate? ;) |
| 19:05.59 | Manu | SportChick: some times I use US flag for long.. I don't like to use superflags |
| 19:06.15 | RatOmeter | whoa. someone brought lasermania back up |
| 19:06.21 | SportChick | Manu: I generally don't pick up flags at all :) |
| 19:06.21 | Manu | and we can't remove it.. it's United States flag ;) |
| 19:06.30 | SportChick | or if I do, I look for ST (my fav) |
| 19:06.51 | Thumper_ | RatOmeter: it never left - it's just been hiding way down the server list |
| 19:06.55 | Manu | every flag have their points |
| 19:07.14 | RatOmeter | OK, then the "somebody" is the upteen players on it now ;) |
| 19:07.44 | Thumper_ | it's 29 players... not in the teens :) |
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| 19:31.00 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: sure, that sounds good |
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| 20:05.13 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, did you try to build warzone at any point? |
| 20:05.21 | Erroneous | nope |
| 20:05.44 | Erroneous | couldn't find a list of dependencies anywhere |
| 20:05.54 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:06.44 | JeffM2501 | hmm, did they GPL the art? or do you need a legit game CD for it |
| 20:09.23 | JeffM2501 | ahh the origonal GPL linked to propritatry stuff, so they had to spend time porting it to OSS alterntives |
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| 20:20.45 | patlkli | JeffM2501: Could you be so kind and look at this? http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/421396 |
| 20:20.53 | patlkli | It doesn't work |
| 20:21.05 | JeffM2501 | give an error? or just not work? |
| 20:21.15 | patlkli | mostly errors |
| 20:21.22 | patlkli | 2 or 3 in bzfsAPI.h |
| 20:21.29 | JeffM2501 | well it's not valid C++ code |
| 20:21.32 | JeffM2501 | that's the first thing |
| 20:21.41 | JeffM2501 | where is FlagOnSpawnHandler defined? |
| 20:22.07 | JeffM2501 | also you have a name conflict |
| 20:22.12 | JeffM2501 | not realy fluent in C++ are you? |
| 20:22.24 | JeffM2501 | oppositeFlagHandler oppositeFlagHandler; |
| 20:22.28 | JeffM2501 | those are the same words |
| 20:22.43 | patlkli | whoops |
| 20:22.46 | patlkli | well |
| 20:22.47 | JeffM2501 | yeah ;) |
| 20:23.05 | patlkli | but your bzfsAPI.h is not right as well? |
| 20:23.07 | JeffM2501 | fix those 3 big issues, and you'll be fine |
| 20:23.14 | JeffM2501 | what error do you get in it? |
| 20:23.44 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@66.119.207.74) |
| 20:24.05 | JeffM2501 | ahh I left a V1 didn't I |
| 20:24.08 | patlkli | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/421405 |
| 20:24.36 | patlkli | mhm |
| 20:24.37 | JeffM2501 | yeah I see it |
| 20:24.42 | L4m3r | also, using the "force" param in the givePlayerFlag function isn't necessary |
| 20:24.48 | patlkli | invalid conversation |
| 20:25.11 | JeffM2501 | invalid converstion from what to what? it's a bool |
| 20:26.17 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13958 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h: leftovers from DEV during the backport. |
| 20:26.31 | JeffM2501 | it's a bool, used in an iff |
| 20:26.35 | JeffM2501 | what are you passing in? |
| 20:26.39 | patlkli | mhm |
| 20:26.43 | patlkli | wait |
| 20:26.52 | patlkli | wha |
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| 20:28.26 | patlkli | errors |
| 20:28.39 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 20:30.25 | JeffM2501 | and you want your while loop to stop when it hits a null? |
| 20:30.41 | JeffM2501 | how do you handle gaps? |
| 20:30.55 | JeffM2501 | man is that one wierd loop |
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| 20:32.54 | patlkli | hmm |
| 20:33.12 | patlkli | but how should i give anyone other ST |
| 20:33.21 | *** part/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=Think_Di@pool-70-21-80-35.res.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:33.24 | L4m3r | use an if statement inside the loop |
| 20:33.27 | JeffM2501 | you want me to show you the fixes? |
| 20:33.29 | JeffM2501 | it's REALY easy |
| 20:33.53 | L4m3r | nice thought though, a second param for a while loop that says "skip these cases" :P |
| 20:33.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:34.03 | JeffM2501 | cus a != is hard ;) |
| 20:34.19 | L4m3r | thought a continue or nested if works just as well |
| 20:34.23 | L4m3r | though* |
| 20:34.34 | JeffM2501 | not even, one sec |
| 20:34.35 | JBdiGriz | So make it into a bitmask of the cases that you don't want, and make it really obtuse. |
| 20:34.46 | L4m3r | hehe |
| 20:34.57 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 20:35.39 | L4m3r | today I was informed of a chicken-and-egg problem with my coursework |
| 20:36.19 | L4m3r | in my first lecture for this quarter's compsci class, the prof said that the course would be very difficult for anyone who had not taken CS 111 |
| 20:36.33 | Sir_Pants | which you haven't? |
| 20:36.41 | JeffM2501 | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/421420 |
| 20:36.44 | JeffM2501 | try that |
| 20:36.49 | JeffM2501 | that should be a little cleaner |
| 20:36.53 | L4m3r | so during the break I talked to the prof and mentioned that the sample cirriculum showed that course BEFORE CS111 |
| 20:36.53 | JeffM2501 | and maybe compile |
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| 20:37.03 | JeffM2501 | tho the tabs got jacked |
| 20:37.27 | Sir_Pants | lol |
| 20:37.34 | L4m3r | and he said, "Well, that happens. CS111 helps with this course, and this course helps with CS11" |
| 20:37.43 | Sir_Pants | so why not take both? |
| 20:37.53 | L4m3r | "So I'm screwed either way? Great, I feel better now!" |
| 20:38.00 | JeffM2501 | oh wait |
| 20:38.15 | L4m3r | Sir_Pants: scheduling conflicts. Otherwise I'd have taken CS111 to begin with. |
| 20:38.15 | JeffM2501 | also, your comparing an INT to a string |
| 20:38.18 | Sir_Pants | ah ok |
| 20:38.25 | JeffM2501 | patlkli, realy, any C or C++ at all? |
| 20:38.48 | Sir_Pants | I had the same problem dude, I wanted to take AP Physics but it is required to take calculus so I had to take both |
| 20:39.16 | L4m3r | Sir_Pants: HS is quite different ;) |
| 20:39.31 | L4m3r | scheduling in a state college is rather difficult |
| 20:39.33 | Sir_Pants | well I had the same problem except for scheduling conflict |
| 20:39.34 | patlkli | JeffM2501: i'm tired |
| 20:39.38 | patlkli | sorry |
| 20:39.48 | JeffM2501 | I have it all fixed if you want it |
| 20:39.52 | L4m3r | I took physics C AP, calc BC-AP, and CSAP all in the same year :P |
| 20:39.53 | patlkli | i only sleeped half an hour today |
| 20:39.56 | Sir_Pants | cuz everytime I take a test I feel like I'm screwed cuz I don't understand half stuff like the otehr students |
| 20:40.00 | JeffM2501 | then sleep don't code ;) |
| 20:40.07 | Sir_Pants | ok nevermind lol |
| 20:40.11 | patlkli | ... |
| 20:40.24 | JeffM2501 | you want the fixed version? |
| 20:42.06 | patlkli | no |
| 20:42.12 | L4m3r | Sir_Pants: I got 5s on all of them too. Have fun :D |
| 20:42.12 | patlkli | i have only 2 errors left |
| 20:42.15 | JeffM2501 | it uses the actualy player list |
| 20:42.40 | JeffM2501 | your code won't work I fear |
| 20:42.40 | Sir_Pants | haha |
| 20:42.40 | Sir_Pants | I'm not taking the AP physics test, was like screw that |
| 20:42.40 | patlkli | JeffM2501: well, ok.... |
| 20:42.41 | JeffM2501 | the entire before and after thing is not needed |
| 20:42.41 | L4m3r | heh |
| 20:42.41 | Sir_Pants | just gonna take my Ap european history test |
| 20:42.44 | L4m3r | we didn't have a choice |
| 20:42.54 | patlkli | JeffM2501: show me your code... :D |
| 20:42.56 | Sir_Pants | I would actually prefer to take the class over in college and just have a running start |
| 20:42.56 | L4m3r | though the physics B course had an optional AP |
| 20:43.07 | Sir_Pants | thats what i'm in |
| 20:43.19 | Sir_Pants | all AP's at my school are optional |
| 20:43.29 | Sir_Pants | well of course they are |
| 20:43.33 | Sir_Pants | but to take the exams i mean |
| 20:43.33 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/files/code/playerIterator.cpp |
| 20:43.57 | JeffM2501 | you can get an intlist with all the valid players |
| 20:43.58 | Sir_Pants | is it possible to modify a geno (using a plugin) so it kills the user when fired, kills the enemy team, and broadcast a message to 'only' the enemy team? |
| 20:44.04 | JeffM2501 | so you just have to go thru them |
| 20:44.17 | JeffM2501 | and then just don't do the ONE player that is the grabber |
| 20:44.25 | JeffM2501 | since you only ever have one of those at at a time. |
| 20:44.45 | L4m3r | or check to see if they have gm |
| 20:44.47 | L4m3r | ;) |
| 20:44.47 | JeffM2501 | and the string for the flag type is the abbreviation |
| 20:45.04 | JeffM2501 | you can't do a == on char*'s ether ;) |
| 20:45.15 | patlkli | hmm |
| 20:45.21 | patlkli | well |
| 20:45.45 | JeffM2501 | yeah you probably want to check to see if they have GM before you restet them |
| 20:45.45 | L4m3r | patlkli: weren't you writing this for someone else? |
| 20:46.35 | patlkli | oppositeFlag.cpp:1: error: âBZF_APIâ does not name a type |
| 20:46.43 | patlkli | ^^ |
| 20:46.50 | patlkli | L4m3r: yes |
| 20:46.56 | L4m3r | who? |
| 20:46.59 | JeffM2501 | ahh crap at the top of the paste |
| 20:47.00 | JeffM2501 | remove that |
| 20:47.03 | JeffM2501 | before the comment |
| 20:47.10 | JeffM2501 | I didn't compile it, I don't have your project |
| 20:48.48 | patlkli | JeffM2501: do know a usable compile command for this? now i have 20 errors as undefined refs... |
| 20:49.05 | JeffM2501 | um.. |
| 20:49.07 | patlkli | *usuable |
| 20:49.08 | JeffM2501 | dude |
| 20:49.14 | JeffM2501 | how are you building? |
| 20:49.20 | JeffM2501 | what OS? |
| 20:49.28 | JeffM2501 | have you ever built before? |
| 20:50.05 | JeffM2501 | it sounds like you just need somone to make the entire plug-in for you |
| 20:50.17 | JeffM2501 | or your realy out of it |
| 20:50.33 | JeffM2501 | a plug-in for a silly game is no reason for lack of sleep :) |
| 20:50.38 | patlkli | JeffM2501: commandline, linux, not a bzflag plugin, yes |
| 20:51.05 | Arsage2 | typically sleep helps, I've found myself solving coding problems in my dreams once or twice =/ |
| 20:51.06 | JeffM2501 | the the "compile command" would be the makefile you made for the plug-in |
| 20:51.18 | JeffM2501 | you need to link it as a dynamic lib |
| 20:51.32 | JeffM2501 | you can't just gcc myplugin.cpp |
| 20:51.39 | JeffM2501 | and expect a .so to be spit out |
| 20:51.49 | JeffM2501 | it's ok to say you don't know much about C++ |
| 20:52.03 | patlkli | wait a minute |
| 20:52.52 | patlkli | i'll try kdevelop to compile it |
| 20:53.08 | JeffM2501 | you dont' get it |
| 20:53.13 | JeffM2501 | you NEED THE MAKEFILE |
| 20:53.16 | JeffM2501 | not A makefile |
| 20:53.26 | JeffM2501 | the ones that are provided for you to modify to make plugins work |
| 20:53.28 | JeffM2501 | they are special |
| 20:54.46 | JeffM2501 | I would get familiar with how to build plugins before you dive into programing one. |
| 20:55.31 | patlkli | ? |
| 20:55.51 | JeffM2501 | is it a language thing? |
| 20:56.00 | patlkli | yes... |
| 20:56.16 | JeffM2501 | can somone tell him in his language what I'm saying? |
| 20:56.50 | patlkli | i understand most you say |
| 20:56.59 | JeffM2501 | kdevelop will not know how to build a bzflag plug-in |
| 20:57.14 | JeffM2501 | in the SAMPLE_PLUGIN dir is a makefile you modify |
| 20:57.19 | patlkli | yes |
| 20:57.21 | patlkli | i did |
| 20:57.22 | JeffM2501 | it tells gcc how to link |
| 20:57.29 | patlkli | hmm |
| 20:57.45 | patlkli | so i need to find the right options for gcc/g++ |
| 20:57.49 | JeffM2501 | then you build your new plug-in with all the other plugins |
| 20:57.56 | JeffM2501 | the makefile HAS all the right options |
| 20:58.03 | JeffM2501 | the same options are used for the other plug-ins |
| 20:58.06 | JeffM2501 | the standard ones. |
| 20:58.13 | JeffM2501 | you just replace the file |
| 20:58.17 | JeffM2501 | then tell bzflag to build everything |
| 20:58.29 | JeffM2501 | and it'll build your newplug-in with the standard ones |
| 20:58.30 | patlkli | uhh |
| 20:58.39 | JeffM2501 | you don't build a plugin alone |
| 20:58.41 | JeffM2501 | not on linux |
| 20:58.49 | patlkli | and on win? |
| 20:58.52 | patlkli | :D |
| 20:59.00 | JeffM2501 | windows with VC++ you can |
| 20:59.05 | JeffM2501 | but they do not use the makefiles |
| 20:59.11 | JeffM2501 | they use the .vcprog and .sln files |
| 20:59.21 | patlkli | hmm |
| 20:59.24 | JeffM2501 | linux and windows are not the same |
| 21:01.08 | patlkli | have to register VC++ |
| 21:01.12 | patlkli | 1min |
| 21:01.41 | JeffM2501 | what OS does your server run? does that not matter? |
| 21:02.49 | patlkli | i don't have a server |
| 21:02.56 | patlkli | not one for bzflag |
| 21:03.05 | JeffM2501 | then why are you making a plug-in? |
| 21:03.11 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com) |
| 21:04.13 | patlkli | i want to try it out |
| 21:04.19 | patlkli | i make it for Legolas |
| 21:04.29 | JeffM2501 | and what server does he run? |
| 21:05.10 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/files/code/evenFlag.zip |
| 21:05.24 | JeffM2501 | that's a full make system for linux and windows with the plugin |
| 21:06.01 | JeffM2501 | throw that in there, add evenFlag to your plugins dir makefile, and then reconfigure and build. |
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| 21:06.45 | JeffM2501 | ahh and to the configure.ac in the root too |
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| 21:11.28 | patlkli | well, lets go building |
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| 22:19.34 | Erroneous | whee. |
| 22:19.35 | Arsage2 | indeed, spammy :) |
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| 22:56.29 | patlkli | JeffM2501: are you here? |
| 22:57.03 | Constitution | ~ask |
| 22:57.05 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. |
| 22:57.18 | Constitution | ah, gotta love this bot :-) |
| 22:57.26 | patlkli | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/421647 |
| 22:57.34 | patlkli | that's my problem :) |
| 22:57.53 | JeffM2501 | I am |
| 22:58.19 | JeffM2501 | what bzflag are you using? |
| 22:58.29 | JeffM2501 | the current one? |
| 22:58.41 | patlkli | JeffM2501: 2.0.x SVN |
| 22:58.49 | JeffM2501 | did you rebuild it? |
| 22:58.54 | patlkli | yes |
| 22:59.02 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull |
| 22:59.08 | JeffM2501 | it's not using the new header file |
| 22:59.25 | patlkli | hmm |
| 22:59.37 | JeffM2501 | did you update after I made my changes? |
| 23:00.40 | patlkli | hmm |
| 23:00.51 | patlkli | let me checkout again |
| 23:01.12 | lodxcol | how would one use SVN to compile BZFlag on a Mac? |
| 23:01.27 | JeffM2501 | same as you did before |
| 23:01.37 | JeffM2501 | just with out cvs, but svn instead |
| 23:01.50 | JeffM2501 | subversion does not change our build at all |
| 23:01.54 | JeffM2501 | just how you get the code |
| 23:02.18 | lodxcol | I get a command not found |
| 23:02.28 | JeffM2501 | then you need to isntall a subversion client |
| 23:02.36 | lodxcol | hmm |
| 23:02.46 | JeffM2501 | just like you did for the cvs client |
| 23:03.00 | a_meteorite | except cvs comes with the dev tools :) |
| 23:03.07 | JeffM2501 | that is an install is it not? |
| 23:03.17 | a_meteorite | lodxcol: this is what I use: http://metissian.com/projects/macosx/subversion/ |
| 23:03.29 | lodxcol | just got that link from google, thanks :) |
| 23:03.29 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: yes, you must install the dev tools.. |
| 23:03.40 | JeffM2501 | there are other ways to get cvs clients |
| 23:03.45 | a_meteorite | well, yes |
| 23:04.00 | a_meteorite | but using the one with the dev tools seems to be most convenient |
| 23:04.07 | JeffM2501 | lodxcol, http://subversion.tigris.org/ is the subversion site, they should have info on clients for all OSs |
| 23:04.25 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: they don't make binaries for mac os x |
| 23:04.36 | JeffM2501 | realy? |
| 23:04.43 | JeffM2501 | # |
| 23:04.43 | JeffM2501 | Installation from a .dmg |
| 23:04.43 | JeffM2501 | Maintainer: Matthew E. Porter |
| 23:04.43 | JeffM2501 | Pre-built binaries that do not require Fink can be found here: http://metissian.com/projects/macosx/subversion/ . |
| 23:04.48 | JeffM2501 | cus that sure as heck looks like one |
| 23:04.55 | a_meteorite | that's what I just linked to |
| 23:04.57 | JeffM2501 | as you linked |
| 23:05.06 | patlkli | :) |
| 23:05.09 | a_meteorite | and that's a different maintainer "not official" |
| 23:05.12 | JeffM2501 | I did';t say they made them, I said they have info on them |
| 23:05.22 | a_meteorite | ah, I thought that's what you meant |
| 23:05.26 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 23:05.36 | JeffM2501 | I always find it best to send somone to the main page, so they know what they are geting |
| 23:05.41 | JeffM2501 | not just some "magic link" |
| 23:05.43 | a_meteorite | it would be nice of the svn team made official binaries though |
| 23:05.49 | JeffM2501 | make some for them |
| 23:05.59 | JeffM2501 | and submit them |
| 23:06.19 | a_meteorite | brownie points, woo |
| 23:06.19 | JeffM2501 | each OS has a maintainer in there project |
| 23:06.35 | JeffM2501 | so how that isn't the "team" I don't know |
| 23:06.43 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 23:07.00 | a_meteorite | I figured they linked to those things for a courtesy, but they weren't supported |
| 23:07.25 | JeffM2501 | they don't support them |
| 23:07.30 | JeffM2501 | they don't suport ANY binary |
| 23:07.32 | JeffM2501 | on any OS |
| 23:07.34 | JeffM2501 | as the page states |
| 23:07.36 | a_meteorite | hehe |
| 23:08.01 | a_meteorite | it's easy to give users the wrong impression by linking to them :) |
| 23:08.14 | JeffM2501 | no, it states exactly what they are doing |
| 23:08.18 | JeffM2501 | you just don't like to read |
| 23:08.34 | JeffM2501 | there is no impression to get |
| 23:08.35 | a_meteorite | that's not true, I read more than other people |
| 23:09.08 | a_meteorite | I'm still looking at their cluttered navigation to see where you got that info |
| 23:09.27 | JeffM2501 | cluttered? |
| 23:09.32 | JeffM2501 | I hit the download link on the main page |
| 23:09.41 | JeffM2501 | then there is a section that says"binary packages" |
| 23:09.57 | a_meteorite | seriously, my eyes has been crappy lately |
| 23:10.07 | JeffM2501 | I mean, damn, how much more simple can you get then that? |
| 23:10.13 | a_meteorite | I messed up twice today in art (jewelery making) |
| 23:10.21 | JeffM2501 | get glasses |
| 23:10.27 | patlkli | Has anyone expierence with wxWidgets |
| 23:10.28 | a_meteorite | I have glasses |
| 23:10.34 | a_meteorite | been wearing them since 3rd grade |
| 23:10.34 | JeffM2501 | get new ones |
| 23:10.43 | a_meteorite | medical only covers them so often ;) |
| 23:10.57 | AAA_awright | (snicker... can't get much worse than that...) |
| 23:10.58 | a_meteorite | one new pair every two years... I need a new pair about every 8 months |
| 23:11.43 | JeffM2501 | patlkli, #wxwidgets would have experience in that |
| 23:11.50 | patlkli | lol |
| 23:12.09 | *** join/#bzflag niels_ (n=niels@2610ds3-fb.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 23:12.19 | patlkli | They will all say it's good, i wanted a neutral vote |
| 23:16.33 | niels_ | When I play in Austria my ping is often close to 60, but I get kicked of because my jitter goes above 10. Is ntpq the best tool for testing jitter? In some old irc log there was talk about lowering the frame rate. Could that work for me? |
| 23:16.54 | JeffM2501 | jitter is how often your ping changes |
| 23:17.03 | JeffM2501 | are you on wireless |
| 23:17.20 | niels_ | No it's a lan |
| 23:17.32 | JeffM2501 | where is the server located? |
| 23:17.37 | niels_ | Denmark |
| 23:17.47 | JeffM2501 | that is some distance, so some jitter is expected |
| 23:17.53 | JeffM2501 | what is your frame rate? |
| 23:18.10 | niels_ | Hmm wait.. I am in Denmark. I have the problem on all servers. If I compare jitter to ping my connection is worse that all the others |
| 23:18.21 | niels_ | I don't know. I should test that |
| 23:18.39 | JeffM2501 | ahh austria, sorry I read australia :( |
| 23:18.44 | niels_ | hehe |
| 23:18.51 | JeffM2501 | jitter is hard to test for |
| 23:19.03 | JeffM2501 | as you'll have to test your UDP jitter, not TCP or ICMP ping |
| 23:19.10 | JeffM2501 | what is your frame rate? is it low? |
| 23:19.11 | a_meteorite | za servers is in za austria |
| 23:19.16 | a_meteorite | ;) |
| 23:19.23 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, your not helping |
| 23:19.27 | a_meteorite | sorry |
| 23:19.30 | patlkli | lol |
| 23:20.25 | niels_ | Hmm. I will test the framerate and get back. Isn't that the best way? |
| 23:20.43 | a_meteorite | niels_: I'm sorry if that offended you, shoulda thought twice |
| 23:21.00 | a_meteorite | :\ |
| 23:21.09 | JeffM2501 | well if your frame rate is low, then that could add fake lag or jitter |
| 23:21.16 | a_meteorite | he left |
| 23:21.22 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 23:21.43 | patlkli | Constitution: how that bot works? |
| 23:21.52 | a_meteorite | erm, ntpq is a NTP query app |
| 23:21.58 | a_meteorite | how would that test jitter? |
| 23:23.03 | Constitution | ~ibot |
| 23:23.04 | ibot | rumour has it, ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 23:23.23 | a_meteorite | I never knew |
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| 23:41.27 | niels_ | I am here again. I just did a very short test in cx. My framerate went up and down from below 10 to above 100. |
| 23:42.12 | niels_ | At some point I had a jitter of 28 |
| 23:43.00 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 23:43.05 | JeffM2501 | yeah there is your jitter |
| 23:43.08 | JeffM2501 | 10 is REALY low |
| 23:43.14 | JeffM2501 | that will add fake lag for those times |
| 23:43.22 | JeffM2501 | adding a change to your normal lag, aka jitter |
| 23:43.26 | JeffM2501 | what video card do you have? |
| 23:43.44 | niels_ | Nvidia on a two year old laptop. |
| 23:43.53 | JeffM2501 | how old are the drivers? |
| 23:44.38 | niels_ | Everything is Ubuntu edgy. |
| 23:44.39 | JeffM2501 | basicly you want your frame rate as constant as it can be |
| 23:44.47 | niels_ | Oh |
| 23:44.47 | JeffM2501 | using the nvidia drivers or nv? |
| 23:45.01 | niels_ | Nvidia driver I hope. |
| 23:45.07 | niels_ | Hmm I should double check that. |
| 23:45.08 | JeffM2501 | I'd make sure |
| 23:45.35 | JeffM2501 | but you may want to see if you turn down the quality and turn some options off, if that helps you keep a constant fps, and if that helps |
| 23:45.42 | niels_ | lsmod says nvidia |
| 23:45.50 | JeffM2501 | at 10fps the time between frames is more then your lag :( |
| 23:45.55 | trepan | glxinfo |
| 23:45.57 | niels_ | OK I will try that |
| 23:46.18 | niels_ | wow glxinfo gives many numbdedrs |
| 23:46.33 | trepan | or: glxinfo | grep vendor |
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| 23:47.18 | niels_ | server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation... I guess that means I am using the nvidia driver |
| 23:48.26 | niels_ | Hmm I will do some tests without any effects and report back. |
| 23:51.09 | *** join/#bzflag niels_ (n=niels@2610ds3-fb.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 23:52.18 | niels_ | I tried turning of all effects. That didn't help :( |
| 23:53.06 | trepan | what video card do you have? |
| 23:53.06 | a_meteorite | did you install nvidia's proprietary driver? |
| 23:55.43 | niels_ | Nvidia Geforce Fx Go5200 NV34M (According to the gnome hardware monitor) |
| 23:57.08 | niels_ | Meteorite: yes I think that I did. That is the info we got from glxinfo |
| 23:57.48 | a_meteorite | interesting, a 5200 should do much better than that with nvidia's own drivers |
| 23:58.39 | niels_ | I don't think that the GPL driver is able to do any 3d at all, but I am not sure about. |
| 23:59.29 | niels_ | Hmm it would be cool just to test if this was a problem of my laptop or my new ISP. |
