irclog2html for #bzflag on 20070323

02:04.01*** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
02:04.01*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in GSoC: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC students -- please include your irc nick in your proposal
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02:04.22L4m3rhello ibot
02:04.30L4m3r~ibot++
02:04.58a_temp_distI've always wondered why WG wasn't placed in the same class of flags as L, GM, SW - with a white label
02:05.41L4m3rthe white label doesn't really mean anything, it's only used in the scoreboard
02:06.02L4m3ryou are free to modify scoreboardRenderer.cxx to correct the problem ;)
02:06.34L4m3r(I believe my scoreboard tweak highlights WG like GM/L/SW)
02:07.23a_temp_distif I had the powa i would - but it seems to mean _something_ to players - like here's an dangerous flag watch out!
02:10.22brlcadpoolio: you mean bzrobots?
02:10.28L4m3rI meant for yourself. ;) I'm sure it was just an oversight when WG was added. it's such a small, subtle feature that I don't think it ever crossed anyone's mind.
02:10.33pooliobrlcad: yeah
02:10.43brlcadit was done for an academic course -- so it was done fast and dirty
02:10.48poolio=)
02:11.06brlcadhttp://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/
02:11.10brlcadthat's the basis
02:11.48poolio<PROTECTED>
02:12.22brlcadutah
02:12.54poolioah, there's a brigham women's hospital that i'm thinking of...
02:14.19pooliobrlcad: the idea of bzrc sounds very similar to what's being proposed with the headless client
02:14.59trovaobrlcad: I know the willing students should demonstrate some basic knowledge about the subject and I guess the greatest win in being accepted in SoC would be to actually learn with those that make things happen ($4500 is a LOT of money for those in "developing" countries, though)
02:15.08trovaoSo, I won't lie. The most "advanced" game AI knowledge I have came from "Game AI by example" (the book). And I assume game AI has "nothing" to do with the scientific one.
02:15.39trovaoI know it doesn't matter much, but I'll try my best to write an ass-kicking realistic (for me) proposal (not that it will change much, but its an honor question, now) :)
02:15.57trovaosorry for the flood :)
02:20.50brlcadpoolio: it is similar because it could simply be seen as an idea to take bzrobots to the next level by a) cleaning up the back-end implementation so that there's a clean API that can be coded to, b) cleaning up the code so that it's more properly headless, and c) a more comprehensive scripting interface (whether it's the current telnet-to-port approach or something more direct ala swig, etc)
02:21.44brlcadtrovao: game ai has a lot to do with the science -- it just has to take into account many many practical considerations like memory and cpu utilization, trainability, etc
02:22.40brlcadjust try not to oversell your abilities -- there's room to figure stuff out, but I couldn't teach even the basic topics through the summer -- you'd only be pointed in general directions
02:23.36trovaobrlcad: yeah, but at least where I study, there aren't design decisions involved. The teacher will say: implement the xxx heuristic, it must run in x seconds at most
02:23.50trovaothis is the different part
02:23.54trovaobrlcad: I won't :D
02:24.45brlcadtrovao: cept for an interactive game like bz -- that x seconds is probably more like 0.02 seconds
02:24.56brlcadthough there is some wiggle room :)
02:25.25brlcadand plenty of cpu time for planning and memory
02:26.00trovaoI'm sorry, english isn't my primary language. What does wiggle mean?
02:27.50a_temp_distin this case something like "inaccuracy in measurement"
02:28.07poolioa_temp_dist: Are you foreign too?
02:28.10brlcad~x en pt wiggle
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02:28.15trovaoa_temp_dist: thanks
02:28.22brlcadheh
02:28.37a_temp_disti'm foreign from most of the world's perspective, but not mine\
02:28.42brlcadthere's some flexibility is all that meant to imply
02:30.42trovaobrlcad: about the general directions thing you talked about, most teachers (I don't know how should I translate "orientadores", maybe orientators?) do that, there are the students as they just say "study x and implement y"
02:31.21trovaoI am familiar with this type of learning. My main problem would be the time constraint, I know a winter isn't much time to learn lots of things
02:31.43trovaosummer = winter in the "bottom" part of the globe
02:34.16trovaobrlcad: I don't want to pick on you, I was just trying to explain my point of view
02:34.45trovaoyou've been one of the most helpful persons I've 'met' in the Open Source world
02:35.12pooliobrlcad: it sounds like the rewriting of the headless client would mean revamping the entire client codebase. If you want to stay OO you would have both the real human client and the bot client be derived from the same main class. It'd be a pain but it'd reduce duplicate code
02:36.02brlcadthat is the general idea, seria un orientador .. aunque los developers se cominican y traban juntos.. generalmente (sorry, can't write pt ;)
02:37.26brlcadpoolio: not so much rewriting it, as refactoring it to put a better layer in between the communications with the application logic and the controlling bot code
02:37.27trovaobrad: no problem, and thanks
02:37.45purple_cowwhich is really how it should have been done to begin with
02:37.50purple_cow*ahem*
02:37.57pooliobrlcad: Yeah sorry, rewriting/refactoring same time-consuming crap :)
02:38.02purple_cowso are we gonna move to svn to make branching/merging easier for SoC? ;-)
02:38.09brlcadthey did what was absolutely minimalist
02:38.13pooliosvn or bust.
02:38.29brlcadby the time it starts, we should be migrated
02:38.38poolioHow many students are you planning on taking for SoC?
02:38.45brlcadpoolio: hence part of the project :)
02:38.55brlcadwe don't decide how many -- google does
02:39.20brlcadthough we have enough mentorship to support probably 6 or 7
02:39.27poolioSo who evaluates the proposals? You or google?
02:39.29brlcadwe do
02:39.48pooliobrlcad: and the number? do they just say we'll sponsor x people?
02:39.57brlcadpretty much
02:40.42poolioI just started thinking about what to do this summer so I might throw an application your guys way
02:41.16brlcadwe have about a week after the submission deadline to review all proposals, ask questions if needed, and rank them -- google then lets us know how many they're going to support
02:41.39brlcadpoolio: please do, there are several ideas that are entirely unclaimed yet
02:41.41pooliobrlcad: so google sees the applications gives you a number, and you pick the ones you like?
02:41.56pooliobrlcad: Such as? I'm pretty interested in AI but it seems like you have plenty of people covering that
02:42.13brlcadwe review and rank before we know how many will be accepted
02:42.36pooliobrlcad: so if you rank say 20 people, and they take 2, are you obliged to take the ones you ranked 1 and 2?
02:42.42brlcadpoolio: there are, though each proposal has it's own good and bad points
02:43.00brlcadpoolio: not "obliged" but something like that
02:43.13poolioAlright, thanks for the clarification
02:43.20brlcadthe student can also turn down the application acceptance (e.g. if they were approved for multiple submissions)
02:43.35poolioAnd just out of curiousity, how has the gsoc affected the usage/popularity of bzflag?
02:43.51brlcader, the program has just started
02:44.07brlcadwe didn't participate previous years
02:44.12poolioWell no, as in are you experiencing lots of traffic now that you're part of the project
02:44.20brlcad~bzflist
02:45.03purple_cowthere are certainly a lot more people here asking about development
02:45.13purple_cowbut that's probably just the smell of money
02:45.17brlcadslightly higher than average/usual playing for this time of day .. but could just be normal fluctuation
02:45.27poolioCool cool.
02:45.36poolioI'm mainly just looking for something to pay the bills and let me code something I'm interested in
02:45.45poolioCollege is expensive :\
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02:48.46brlcadproblemas? :)
02:49.10trovaobrlcad: something at my ISP went down
02:50.02trovaoI thought my router was locked up, but it is a quite strong pentium i200
02:56.03poolioOh crap. March 26th deadline :\
02:56.21trovaopoolio: wasn't it 24th?
02:56.31brlcadit was
02:56.36brlcadthey extended it through the weekend
02:56.44trovaocool! two more days!
02:59.46blast007heh...
03:04.31EpyonGreat, but I don't think I'll be submitting more applications :)
03:05.14poolioAnyone know a ballpark figure as to what % of applicants are accepted"
03:06.25brlcaddepends how many apply of course
03:06.33brlcadand that's changed every year big
03:06.59brlcadEpyon: which projects have you submitted to?
03:07.13EpyonBZFlag xD
03:07.32pooliobrlcad: eg last year =)
03:07.44EpyonGoogle knows.
03:08.00brlcadthey reported the stats, but I forget where exactly
03:08.23EpyonBut that would interest me actually ;]
03:08.39Epyonbrlcad, honestly tough, I only applied to two projects.
03:08.50EpyonBut I doubt I will get the second one.
03:08.58brlcadEpyon: did you put your irc nick to your app?
03:09.09EpyonI think I did.
03:09.10DTRemenak|RDPyes, he did
03:09.15EpyonYeah, yes I did :)
03:09.34brlcadwhat was the title?
03:09.43EpyonMy problem is that nothing listed in the ideas section of any project interests me :/
03:09.44brlcador basic subject even
03:09.59EpyonRandom level generation, we talked about it AFAIK ;]
03:10.03brlcadoooh
03:10.05brlcadright
03:10.29brlcaddidn't remember the name, and I just finished reading :)
03:10.40brlcadlong day..
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03:11.26EpyonBut I am conscious, that what I proposed is a bonus feature, and the devs will probably want needed stuff done instead :/
03:13.02poolioIs there a suggest project to make the game as a whole look prettier :)
03:13.36brlcadactually, I think your proposal is one of the best so far
03:13.54Epyonpoolio, that one wouldn't be to hard, just allow me to plug in my models and rerender fonts :P
03:13.57brlcadit would benefit the game directly, and supports a research angle
03:14.10Epyonbrlcad :)
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03:14.53Epyonbrlcad, but I always imagined OS games were more about technical stuff than content, no offence
03:14.54brlcadand research (in particular the AI notions for starters) was actually one of the criteria that helped us earn acceptance as a GSoC mentoring organization
03:14.56pooliobrlcad: Booo! Hiss! A better AI system would allow for play even when all your friends ditched you to go out and you were stuck in your basement playing bzflag!
03:15.27Epyonpoolio, yeah, and it would help when the beer is gone xD
03:16.06brlcadEpyon: none taken, and is probably pretty true -- doesn't take great content to make a great game -- takes great gameplay
03:16.19trovaopoolio: like action cube
03:16.21poolioJust look at the whole Wii vs. PS3 deal
03:16.36brlcadpoolio: AI is in the same category :P
03:17.05pooliobrlcad: Sorry, same category as what?
03:17.06brlcadit's in our interest to support the AI angle as that was a big basis for our acceptance
03:17.11purple_cowoh my goodness
03:17.16purple_cowI don't have cscope on this machine
03:17.17Epyonbrlcad, gameplay is also about content :)
03:17.25poolioMuahaha. Looks like I shall have to write up a proposal.
03:17.45Epyonbrlcad, the more you go away from abstract things like tetris the more content you need.
03:19.00brlcadaside from there just not being that many decent open source games, you'll notice that there aren't other games on the list -- the closest is ScummVM and Thousand Parsec, but they're frameworks for playing and building games respectively
03:19.09pooliois bzflag 2d?
03:19.25blast007it has a 3D aspect
03:19.28brlcadpoolio: you might want to at pleast play bzflag for a little while before submitting a proposal :)
03:19.31poolioI have
03:19.35poolioI know it's "3d"
03:19.35trovaoit IS 3D
03:19.36blast007but some play it by the 2D radar  ;)
03:19.47pooliobut in terms of collision detection and AI
03:19.58pooliothe world might as well be perceived in 2 dimensions, correct?
03:20.06brlcadnot really
03:20.10blast007the AI can jump over objects (at least the Autopilot)
03:20.17brlcadeven our fsm bot will do what it can in 3d to get at you
03:20.19trovaonot if you are considering that tanks can jump (and dodge fire)
03:20.33poolioAh alright.
03:20.41brlcadand flap wings, and fall, and teleport up/down/around
03:21.10trovaothey can flap wings too? awesome!
03:21.12trovao:P
03:21.29brlcadyou didn't know that tanks have wings?
03:21.42brlcadevery time a bell rings, a tank gets its wings
03:21.45poolioAh that's wonderful, bzflag just locked up
03:22.01brlcadyeah, submit a proposal to fix that stupid bug :)
03:22.20poolioYeah, the universal fix to the "it crashed" error
03:22.21trovaopoolio: now that you mentioned, -solo doesn't work on my cvs version
03:22.22brlcadtry turning off lighting or updating your graphics driver
03:22.34Epyon"I'll fix BZFlag so it never locks up" -- that'd be a cool proposal :P
03:22.37brlcadtrovao: yes, cvs head was recently busted
03:22.51brlcad2.0 should be fine
03:22.54poolioyeah, rm -rf the cvs trunk, that's how you make it unbreakable.
03:23.02brlcadpart of on-going development woes
03:23.24trovaopoolio: SoC will happen on CVS, so its better to keep it near
03:23.37brlcadmaybe, maybe not
03:23.45brlcadwe should be migrated to svn by then
03:23.53trovaooh
03:23.54pooliotrovao: i dont think you realized the joke :)
03:24.12trovaopoolio: oops :$
03:25.34EpyonI'd choose svn over cvs any day :)
03:27.07poolioIf I wrote a proposal that was somewhat more directed at AI research and less so at bzflag, would that be ... bad?
03:27.51PuMpErNiCkLeRun for your lives. :)
03:28.24Epyonpoolio, as long as it would be implemented into bzflag I think it might be considered ;]
03:28.35purple_cowsheesh, playing.cxx is like badly written C
03:28.37brlcadpoolio: it should still have some practical utility
03:28.40trovaoSportChick: hello, good looking
03:28.46brlcadpurple_cow: crazy talk
03:28.51brlcadit's not "like" badly written C
03:28.57brlcadit IS badly written C :)
03:29.13pooliohaha
03:29.17purple_cowwell, it uses things like "new", so...
03:29.25brlcadthat's one of like 3 files remaining that I still haven't carved up into a million other files
03:29.38JeffM2501I feel dirty
03:29.44poolio#define new malloc
03:29.44JeffM2501really really dirty
03:29.54trovaoJeffM2501: take a bath
03:29.58brlcad~hose JeffM2501
03:30.01ibotACTION hooks into a hydrant and hoses JeffM2501 down.
03:30.03JeffM2501water won't wash off vista
03:30.20brlcad~fishslap JeffM2501
03:30.22ibotACTION slaps JeffM2501 up side the head with a wet fish.
03:30.32brlcadmaybe the smell of fish will help
03:30.32JeffM2501came on the machine
03:30.36JeffM2501I'm preping to wipe it
03:30.55purple_cowJeffM2501: it's got a neat pink gremlin clock though
03:31.00pooliozero it!
03:31.10L4m3rJeffM2501: wipe vista?
03:31.16JeffM2501yes
03:31.21L4m3rI used vista as something to wipe _with_
03:31.22L4m3r:P
03:31.24trovaothere's soooo much time since I used windows for more than one hour...
03:32.01L4m3rwindows is tolerable if you just want to play games
03:32.10L4m3rVista kinda defeats that purpose though
03:35.10purple_cowhttp://osiris.chipx86.com/images/blog/20060204/vista-gremlin.png <-  killer feature
03:35.57PuMpErNiCkLeo_o
03:37.55poolioAlright, good night guys, I hope that I'll have time to write up a proposal
03:37.56JeffM2501I couldn't pass up a dual core laptop for 699
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03:38.11L4m3rJeffM2501: link?
03:38.22JeffM2501bestbuy
03:38.25trovaopoolio: good night
03:38.29JeffM2501just sort em by price
03:38.31trovaoand good luck
03:38.36JeffM2501it's a gateway AMD
03:38.42JeffM2501on sale for 150 off
03:39.06L4m3rah
03:39.29JeffM2501http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8224771&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat103700050019&id=1166840116923
03:40.33L4m3ra very nice deal
03:40.57a_temp_distgateway makes OK notebooks?
03:41.12L4m3rIf I didn't have my lappy already I'd go for it :P
03:41.34judehmm...I was under the impression that Gateway mademore expensive notebooks...
03:41.39trovaoIf I didn't have 60% taxes plus shipping I would go for it
03:41.44L4m3rthey used to...
03:42.11L4m3rnone of the big guys really make high-end laptops anymore.
03:42.19brlcadJeffM2501: you recall your other ideas from last night?
03:42.22L4m3rfor those you go to Sony or Toshiba or Fujitsu
03:42.26JeffM2501no
03:42.31JeffM2501logs?
03:42.43judeL4m3r: define "high end"
03:42.46L4m3r...working on the app now
03:42.48brlcadyeah, i wanted to be lazy
03:43.12JeffM2501I don't log on this machine
03:43.16L4m3rjude: generally faster, larger, and with lots of (often superfluous) features
03:43.20brlcadaiight
03:43.24judesounds like XPS
03:43.38L4m3rah, XPS would be an exception
03:43.57L4m3rthough that's more of a "gaming laptop", almost a separate category in itself
03:44.08L4m3rlike Acer's Ferrari laptops
03:44.28L4m3ror Alienware... oh, they're Dell now
03:44.33JeffM2501wow it finaly booted!
03:44.39judeI see
03:44.55L4m3rone of the guys who does access control in the dorms has an A-ware lappy... it's monstrous
03:45.31judeone of my friends has this beastly alienware...19" screen, dual hard drives, 30-minute battery life...
03:45.38jude4 GB ram
03:46.00judetho the light-up alien eyes on the case are cool
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03:47.22*** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-093.ewetel.net)
03:49.46L4m3rheh
03:49.53L4m3r30-minute battery? wow
03:50.06L4m3rand that's only 19"- they make 21" laptops now
03:50.12judeso much for mobility :p
03:50.31brlcaddamn, couldn't find it
03:50.43judeheh my pavillion gets 5 hours
03:50.53trovaoalright, naptime, see you next time
03:51.07brlcadcheers
03:51.16judegood night trovao
03:51.38Epyon*yawn* To sleep or not to sleep thy is the question :P
03:51.57brlcadthere's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead
03:52.03trovaojude & brlcad: thanks (and thanks for reading those ever lasting long lines brlcad)
03:52.12brlcadlong lines? :)
03:52.45brlcadDTRemenak: you got idea of something to add?
03:52.55DTRemenakhmmm?
03:53.08brlcadideas page, a topic
03:53.30gn00bie2  + 2 = 5
03:53.36gn00biefor very large values of 2
03:53.38brlcadadded multi-tank
03:53.40JeffM2501hmmm it even has 128 megs of video ram
03:53.51JeffM2501I thought it would be all turbo cache
03:54.20Epyonbrlcad, so true ;]
03:54.47JeffM2501brlcad did you find my list?
03:55.26brlcadnope
03:55.45brlcadand I even tried
03:55.55JeffM2501:(
03:55.57JeffM2501ibot logs
03:56.08ibotextra, extra, read all about it, logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/,  or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz
03:56.08brlcadneed some keyword to go on
03:56.19brlcadeverything I was trying was too generic or too specific apparently
03:56.32brlcad(for searching)
03:59.01JeffM2501dude
03:59.08JeffM2501just search for "more idea":)
03:59.36JeffM2501fat paste inc
03:59.39JeffM2501brlcadJeffM2501: we really do need a couple more ideas up on the page
03:59.39JeffM250101:32.17brlcadelse we're going to have like 5 engine proposals and 4 AI proposals
03:59.39JeffM250101:32.20JeffM2501heh
03:59.39JeffM250101:32.39JeffM2501gee. woudn't a roadmap be good right about now :)
03:59.39JeffM250101:32.50JeffM2501ok, better user/group managment tools
03:59.40JeffM250101:32.53brlcadnah, someone still would need to type up ideas :)
03:59.42JeffM250101:33.06trovaobrlcad: looking from the outside, they seem the most 'real'
03:59.44JeffM250101:33.14JeffM2501umm...... better list server sorting and stuff
03:59.45brlcadthere we go
03:59.48JeffM250101:33.18JeffM2501distributed list server
03:59.50JeffM250101:33.28JeffM2501automatic updates
03:59.52JeffM250101:33.37JeffM2501multiple screen support
03:59.54JeffM250101:33.40trovaothere's some ideas there that I don't even have the slightest idea on what to do with them
03:59.56JeffM250101:33.41brlcadthat's a good one -- totally revamping the "select a server" page
03:59.58JeffM250101:34.10JeffM2501that's all I can think of off the top of my head
04:00.01DTRemenakurgh
04:00.43JeffM2501yay formating the drive :)
04:02.12purple_cowwhat the heck
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04:02.50purple_cowTextUtils::format("Flags not supported by this client: {1}", &args).c_str());
04:03.26purple_cowwho did that?  who?
04:03.54JeffM2501check history
04:04.04JeffM2501then beat them with a hose
04:04.26JeffM2501I did it?
04:04.28JeffM2501no way
04:04.36JeffM2501I hate the args
04:04.42purple_cowyes you did
04:04.52brlcadhehe
04:04.54purple_cowand args is an std::vector<std::string>!
04:04.55JeffM2501where?
04:05.06purple_cowplaying.cxx dumpMissingFlag
04:05.09JeffM2501teh hell?
04:05.13JeffM2501what?
04:05.19JeffM2501what does that do?
04:05.24brlcadmaybe he just moved it there from elsewhere or ws change
04:05.31DTRemenakprobably ws changes
04:05.33JeffM2501that is more like it
04:05.33purple_cowif you're lucky, it prints a bunch of garbage to the screen
04:05.39DTRemenakcheese whiz, iirc :)
04:05.41JeffM2501yeah it would
04:05.54JeffM2501I have no recolection of doing anything with droping flags
04:06.03JeffM2501that's just stupid tho
04:06.10DTRemenakyup, "put the candle back"
04:06.15JeffM2501ahh
04:06.20JeffM2501yeah WS/screwups
04:06.23JeffM2501keep going back :)
04:07.27purple_cowI'm too lazy to look further
04:08.39DTRemenakoriginated in remove_flag_id branch
04:08.51purple_cowoh
04:08.54purple_cowprobably dbrosius then
04:09.16DTRemenaknope...scanline
04:09.25DTRemenakhttp://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx?r1=1.183.2.4&r2=1.183.2.5&pathrev=remove_flag_id
04:10.10DTRemenak"Better flag negotiation on the client side, with a message telling you exactly which flags aren't supported"
04:11.10DTRemenakhm, looks like it started as a printError though
04:11.29purple_cowI seriously doubt scanline would do that ;-)
04:11.59purple_cowhuh, I guess he did?
04:12.02purple_cowmaybe it was moved
04:12.13DTRemenakcommit message makes it sound original
04:12.30purple_cowhmm
04:12.33purple_cowwhat did printError do?
04:12.46DTRemenakI think the syntax is correct for printError
04:12.48DTRemenakjust ugly
04:12.50purple_cowoh, yeah, right
04:13.54purple_cowso then who converted it to TextUtils::format without fixing? :)
04:14.47DTRemenaktupone
04:14.49DTRemenakhttp://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx?r1=1.694&r2=1.695
04:15.37DTRemenakdid a whole swath of them at once, for the setFailedMessage change
04:16.22JeffM2501not to be mean, but he busted a lot of stuff in that big thing, bots, etc.
04:16.55DTRemenakhe's fixed his share of stuff too
04:17.01JeffM2501that he has
04:17.19JeffM2501I think it was just too many big changes all at once.
04:17.40DTRemenakno real qa either
04:17.47JeffM2501yeah
04:20.11brlcadlikewise
04:21.03brlcadtrepan was by far an offender in that area, breaking something as part of a 20k commit
04:21.11brlcadhe never did commit that last big one, did he
04:21.14JeffM2501now to just peel off the vista sticker :)
04:22.04brlcadadded a few more ideas, feel free to flame, rework, reword, or remove but they should all be things previously discussed
04:22.56JeffM2501I can't stay up till 3 tonight tho
04:23.01JeffM2501gotta get up early
04:23.13JeffM2501so you'll have to get the big arguments down soon :)
04:23.40brlcadi meant internally
04:23.47brlcad:)
04:24.09EpyonIt's 5:25 here ;]
04:24.18JeffM2501heh
04:24.21brlcadi've got no strong passion for/against any of the new ones except maybe for 2-player
04:24.31JeffM2501I just hope I'm not up too late seting this laptop up :/
04:24.50Epyonbrlcad, can you fill me on "the new ones"?
04:25.01CIA-17BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: Cleaned up some ridiculously ugly and broken code. Left the "beaucoup cheeze" comment.
04:25.01Epyonnew applications?
04:25.15JeffM2501whoot, he's on the list for this year :)
04:25.27brlcad2-player tanks, in-game profile management, enhanced public server listing, and multiple display support enhancements
04:26.13purple_cowJeffM2501: I figured I should at least have a basic understanding of the codebase if I'm going to mentor =P
04:26.24Epyonenh public server profile sounds the most interesting. Depending what enhanced means.
04:26.24brlcadhehe
04:26.31JeffM2501heh, true
04:26.45brlcadEpyon: you've seen the server listing in the game?
04:27.00Epyoningame?
04:27.02brlcadyes
04:27.19brlcadit's a dump of
04:27.22brlcad~bzflist
04:27.24EpyonCouldn't see it, cause there are no servers around xD
04:27.45EpyonGet it.
04:27.54EpyonSo what would be the "enhancement"?
04:27.55brlcaddump of 245 or so servers
04:28.11brlcadyou read the descriptiong?
04:28.13JeffM2501add one "find a way to get DSL home users to stop making new servers"
04:28.44EpyonIf my application would pass I hope one of the more popular servers would be willing to host "betatest" games :/
04:29.04purple_cow" Enhanced cross-platform multiple display support" <-- excellent
04:29.31EpyonBecause proper community feedback could be the line between good and bad here...
04:30.31brlcadEpyon: we have servers available for hosting testing servers
04:30.54brlcadplus there's an army of server operators that could help
04:31.09brlcaddepending on what you mean by "betatest" games
04:31.17EpyonThe problem would be to convince people to submit their "feelings" on the levels ;]
04:31.23brlcadlevels?
04:31.28Epyonrandom levels ;]
04:31.34DTRemenakmaps
04:31.38brlcadooh, different topic
04:31.53Epyonsorry, bad roguelike habbit xD
04:32.13brlcadsorry, I was talking about the server listing menu selection -- not the maps themselves
04:32.21Epyonmhm
04:32.50brlcadJeffM2501: easy, by adding an accredidation process to bzauthd server registrations
04:34.14brlcadEpyon: yeah, for hosting maps.. there's servers that could do that right away
04:34.33brlcadi mean, that number is live .. there are 245 game servers running now.. on probably about 200 different server systems
04:34.52JeffM2501and about 200 players ;)
04:34.57brlcadyep :)
04:35.17brlcadmore the need for better server listing support and selection criteria
04:35.32brlcadthat would make for a nice class object all of its own
04:45.41judeEpyon:  are you considering creating an algorithm to create random levels?
04:46.28Epyonjude: not considering, but actually wanting to see it done ;]. Preferably by myself ;)
04:46.42judekk
04:47.02judeI could add that to the BZW editor, if time permits...
04:47.13*** join/#bzflag leif (n=leif@71-215-255-135.mpls.qwest.net)
04:47.14EpyonYou'd agree that it help BZF :)
04:47.58judeThat would assist in rapid level creation
04:48.10judeexcuse me, "world", not "level
04:48.21judeor, rather, "map"
04:48.23DTRemenakhehe
04:48.37DTRemenakworld is acceptable (.bzw after all)
04:49.35DTRemenaklevel is not really accurate, it's not like we have a sequence of them
04:50.04judehmmmm...another GSoC idea:  give BZFlag the ability to do campaigns
04:50.10judesingle-player
04:50.46DTRemenakreally ought to have some form of decent ai first
04:51.29judewell, that will improve with time
04:51.32*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r)
04:51.32*** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ
04:51.58judeit could be part of the GSoC idea...to improve the AI to wage campaigns and strategies
04:57.00brlcadyou can propose whatever the heck you like
04:57.07brlcadwe just might not like it or think it's feasible
04:58.08brlcadit's hard to talk about implementing different AI topics without a decent AI framework in place .. you could hook something in like Roger pretty easily, but that's less than optimal
04:59.38judewell, I was thinking of making the AI scriptable, for starters.
05:00.02judethe various strategies could be expressed as a finite state machine
05:00.38judethe AI bots could do some heuristics to find the best places in the map to mount an attack on the user
05:00.47jude(i.e. find bottlenecks, sniper points, etc)
05:02.45brlcadjude: making the AI readily scriptable in a useful manner beyond the current text protocol of bzrobots is a project in itself
05:03.26judethat's why it'd be fun :)
05:03.32judeeven if NOT for a GSoC project
05:06.03judejust an idea, tho
05:07.43brlcadah, well just as in idea, yeah it's great
05:07.59brlcadwe need better bots, any way/shape/form we can get there
05:08.56brlcadi'm particularly fond of setting up an evolutionary system that builds up complex fsm's or GP systems
05:09.04judethat'd be cool
05:10.57leifonce the mechanism is in place, there are so many ways to go
05:11.54judeone thing that'd be really cool would be to develop a tightly-coordinated AI team strategy
05:12.08brlcadeven cooler, evolve it
05:12.24judeeven better!
05:12.54EpyonThere are a lot of cool articles related to that in the Game Programming series. :)
05:13.02EpyonGame Programming Gems*
05:13.10gl2tosl2hmmmmm descision theory
05:13.13gl2tosl2sp?
05:13.28gl2tosl2decision
05:14.03judeEpyon: true, but better articles exist
05:14.34judethose are a good starting point, tho
05:14.52purple_cownot every problem can be solved through evolutionary algorithms, brlcad
05:14.55purple_cowsome day, you'll understand that
05:15.16gl2tosl2not every problem can be solved
05:15.21jude...yet
05:15.21gl2tosl2at all
05:15.25gl2tosl2ever
05:15.26gl2tosl2sorry
05:15.55judecan you give an example of an unsolvable problem?
05:16.07judeand prove that no solution will ever exist?
05:16.08gl2tosl2I can do better than that
05:16.13DTRemenakjude: you just stated one :P
05:16.27gl2tosl2actually, there are three proofs you should be aware of
05:16.50gl2tosl2Godel's proof that axiomatic systems must be either incomplete or inconsistent
05:16.57gl2tosl2and that math is not inconsistent
05:17.13gl2tosl2Turing's proof that turing machines cannot calculate everything
05:17.25gl2tosl2and they cannot even figure out what they can calculate
05:17.53gl2tosl2and Hawking's proof that physics must also be either inconsistent or incomplete
05:17.58brlcadpurple_cow: oh I understand it
05:18.13judeHawking, however, believes that eventually a Grand Unified Theory will be found
05:18.19brlcadcan't mean I can't have love for the things it does solve
05:18.30gl2tosl2brlcad: fair enough
05:18.48judethe inconsistancies observed are a product of the methods of observation, in that case
05:18.53gl2tosl2jude: he specifically doesn't believe that, or at least he didn't believe that in 2003
05:19.07judewhy would he be searching for one if one did not exist?
05:19.33gl2tosl2well, at the talk I went to, he said that the search would yield good results, even if the unified field theory would not be found
05:19.47DTRemenakjude: perhaps he is searching for one because he does not know if one exists, but in the process of finding out, he will discover something?
05:19.58gl2tosl2I think -- that part is a little fuzzy in my mind
05:20.06DTRemenakyou don't have to know that a goal is acheivable to seek it
05:20.08juderight, but the fact that one has not been found does not mean that one does not exist
05:20.10gl2tosl2he joked that physicsts would never be out of work
05:20.19gl2tosl2jude: that point is correct
05:20.28gl2tosl2but neither does it mean that one does exist
05:20.29gl2tosl2:)
05:20.33judetrue
05:21.08judebut the ambiguity will only be removed once one is found, or a proof that demonstrates that one will NEVER be found is formulated
05:21.26gl2tosl2well, the talk I went to was hawking talking about that proof
05:21.49gl2tosl2he thinks (or thought at the time) that that was the case
05:22.04brlcadDTRemenak: sounds like going after women
05:22.06judewell, either way, you will end up with a definite answer :)
05:22.10CIA-17BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx:
05:22.10CIA-17BZFlag: Clean up signatures some more, and pull more stuff out of the big msg type
05:22.10CIA-17BZFlag: switch statement into their own functions.
05:22.20DTRemenakbrlcad: it does have certain applications in non-science fields :)
05:22.23*** join/#bzflag oslao (n=ca898961@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:23.39oslaoHi
05:23.54judehello
05:24.09oslaoHi Jude
05:24.11brlcadhola
05:24.36oslaosorry Where is here ?
05:24.48gl2tosl2jude: last point, some things are not provable either way.....
05:24.54Epyonclueless? :P
05:24.58gl2tosl2sometimes you can prove that they are unprovable
05:25.00DTRemenakhere, is #bzflag on irc.freenode.net
05:25.18brlcadearth
05:25.22DTRemenakwelcome, please take off your coat, have a drink, and enjoy your stay.
05:25.28oslaoYeah
05:25.30oslaoI c
05:25.46oslaoBut i want to know that
05:25.54brlcadDTRemenak: but .. but .. he's *only* wearing a coat
05:25.56judegl2tosl2: but you have a proof, then
05:25.58oslaowhat name of your country ?
05:25.59DTRemenakbrlcad: sometimes I think some of freenode's relays ar enot on earth :P
05:26.10gl2tosl2jude: proof of what?
05:26.22gl2tosl2the lag isn't that bad
05:26.29judegl2tosl2: the proof that no proof exists.
05:26.30brlcadoslao: que?  we're from many countries
05:26.48oslaoOH..
05:26.50oslaoI see
05:26.54judethe "no solution" proof
05:27.03oslaoI'm from Lao PDR
05:27.07gl2tosl2oh, that sometimes there is no solution?
05:27.09oslaoWho know?
05:27.54judeconsider the equation 0 = 3x^2 + 1.  Can you prove that there are is a real value for x that satisfies it?  No, but you CAN prove that there is NOT a real x.
05:28.08SportChickoslao: where in Laos?
05:28.10gl2tosl2http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing's_proof
05:28.20brlcadoslao: next to korea iirc, welcome
05:28.23gl2tosl2that gives a reasonable outline of turing's proof
05:28.38brlcadcommie!
05:28.44SportChickbrlcad: nope, it's between China, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia
05:28.45DTRemenakbrlcad: heh, little country called china between them
05:28.56gl2tosl2brlcad: please, the PC term is freedom-hater
05:29.14oslao<SportChick> brlcad: nope, it's between China, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia <<< Right
05:29.25gn00bieLaos
05:29.25SportChickoslao: where in Laos are you frome?
05:29.38SportChickoslao: I've been there :)
05:29.42oslaoVientaine
05:29.45SportChickahhh
05:29.51brlcadi meant "next to" in a "it's over there around that piece of land sticking off asia"
05:29.56oslaoReally ?
05:30.01SportChickwe only spent a few days in Vientaine
05:30.01Epyonhey, someone is from "farther away" than I am :D
05:30.03SportChickyes
05:30.14purple_cow"in asia".  that really narrows it down
05:30.17oslaoOh..
05:30.24oslaoCool
05:30.27SportChickoslao: http://www.kirkanddonna.com/rtw/Laos.htm
05:30.37oslaoSportChick
05:31.13brlcadahh, actually i think i meant next to vietnam anyways, heh
05:31.31DTRemenakbrlcad: "over there around" like california is "over there around ontario"? :)
05:31.43brlcadyep
05:31.48brlcadthat's right up the street
05:32.59DTRemenakEpyon: you're welcome to attend one of our bzflag get-togethers! :)
05:33.13EpyonIn the US? :P
05:33.17DTRemenakyup
05:33.28DTRemenaknext one is probably in san diego, california
05:33.32EpyonNo problem if you pay for the travel expenses xD
05:33.35DTRemenakhehe
05:33.36brlcadEpyon: usually around the time of siggraph ;)
05:34.10brlcads/usually/so far that have involved me - always/
05:34.24brlcadyay, 5pm
05:34.27judegood night DTRemenak
05:34.37DTRemenakg'night! :)
05:34.38brlcadhave fun at the center
05:34.39EpyonAlthough if I'd get applied to the program I could try on my PHD studies forcing my Uni to pay for it as "conference" expenses :P
05:34.45DTRemenakbrlcad: I'm sure I will
05:34.51brlcadsteal some good swag
05:34.54DTRemenakhehe
05:35.34Laozaawww.laozaa.com
05:36.15SportChickLaozaa: we visited Huang Xai, Luang Nam Tha (& several nearby villages), Muang Sing, Oudomxai, Nong Khiaw, Luang Prabang, Vang Vieng and Vientiene
05:36.19SportChickoops
05:38.07*** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)
05:40.23JeffM2501man this thing is a lot faster with XP :)
05:41.30brlcadooh, now there's an idea.. i could go skiing this weekend
05:41.38judethat's strange, as XP isn't multi-threaded (AFAIK) :)
05:48.37JeffM2501XP runs more then one process
05:48.48JeffM2501so it'll use more then one core at a time
05:49.21JeffM2501but mostly this is just cus it's less of a pig then vista :)
05:49.47judetrue, but processes and threads are different constructs in Windows
05:50.01judeas opposed to Linux, where they're really the same structure
05:50.11judethreads just share the same address space and resources
05:50.14jude(AFAIK)
05:50.15JeffM2501so :)
05:50.35blast007it's still faster  ;)
05:51.04blast007I can run a VMWare linux install while playing FEAR
05:51.17JeffM2501it is not correct to compare them, as yes, they are diferent
05:51.59judearchitecturally, however, Linux's thread implementation is more elegant
05:52.23JeffM2501whatever
05:53.30judeseriously:  why do the MS developers want to have more than one type of job structure?  It's wasteful
05:54.16JeffM2501why does linux want to have more then one type of window manager?
05:54.18JeffM2501it's wastefull
05:54.24blast007heh
05:54.32JeffM2501it is what it is
05:54.37judelinux is a kernel; I'm talking about MS's NT kernel, not the entire OS
05:54.45JeffM2501geeking on it wont' change it
05:54.47JeffM2501I know
05:54.51JeffM2501I was giving you an example
05:54.59judeyou're right, it is wasteful
05:55.00JeffM2501"cus that's the way they do it"
05:55.04JeffM2501find them and ask them
05:55.22JeffM2501yay, wireless works :)
05:56.08judebut, unlike threading implementation, you can choose your window manager
05:56.08JeffM2501well at least a bin made on windows works on damn near most windows systems, unlike nix ones
05:56.08JeffM2501unless you build it hella static
05:56.38JeffM2501whee 31 out of 85 updates :)
05:57.08judelol
05:57.10purple_cowbeing an ISV on linux sucks
05:57.37blast007JeffM2501: Windows updates are really fun on the old K6-2's at work  :/
05:57.44JeffM2501yeah I can imagine
05:57.51JeffM2501geting the hardware found for this was a pain
05:57.54judepurple_cow: it sucks if you want to get rich on selling software
05:57.55blast007takes like an hour just to find which ones it has to install
05:57.57JeffM2501made me feel like I was installing linux
05:58.04blast007heh
05:58.18JeffM2501since it was "made for vista" gateway only lists the vista drivers
05:58.29JeffM2501so lots of huntin around for the right hardware ones
05:58.37purple_cowjude: yeah, but who doesn't?
05:58.52JeffM2501lots of, looking at what other models the vista drivers and geting there XP ones
05:59.02JeffM2501jude people's gotta eat
05:59.07JeffM2501google won't pay the world ;)
05:59.21judewhat about charging for support and feature development?
05:59.36JeffM2501that's only viable in some industries
05:59.36judethat's what Linux companies do
05:59.51JeffM2501yeah, and I don't see them taking over the world :)
06:00.04JeffM2501there is never "one" way to do all things
06:00.07judeLinux adoption is like a glacier:  slow, but very, very difficult to stop
06:00.21judetrue
06:00.23JeffM2501spoken like a true zeallot :)
06:00.27EpyonYeah ;]
06:00.36gl2tosl2but inconsequential on your current planning horizon?
06:00.44judeactually, i was looking at adoption estimates.  I'm not a zealot
06:00.45JeffM2501everything has it's good and bad points
06:01.01JeffM2501your not
06:01.16gl2tosl2rats
06:01.18EpyonWell, I have no choice :/
06:01.22SportChickEpyon: bzflag is multiplatform - so users of all varieties
06:01.39JeffM2501windows is our most common client OS
06:01.41JeffM2501over 1/2
06:01.58JeffM2501jude but does your mom use linux too?
06:02.03judeno
06:02.10judeI don't really care, tho
06:02.15JeffM2501then there ya go :)
06:02.18judeLinux does what I need it to do
06:02.31blast007jude: same with Windows for me
06:02.33SportChickand Palm OS :)
06:02.34blast007a.k.a. games
06:02.37EpyonMy father uses linux though ;]
06:02.41JeffM2501when my dad can install a desktop linux, then the estimators can toubt "adoption" :)
06:03.00JeffM2501why?
06:03.03judego to www.clieuk.co.uk/nelson.html
06:03.05SportChickJeffM2501, brlcad: if so, rank them #1 ;)
06:03.13JeffM2501double why?
06:03.19blast007SportChick: it would be BZAscii
06:03.20JeffM2501so you can have a slow game
06:03.28SportChickJeffM2501: ;)  you know I'm teasing ;)
06:03.32SportChickblast007: hehe
06:03.33judeyou'll see TankWar there
06:03.41EpyonHow about BZFlagRL? I can do that as an extra xD
06:03.42judesimilar concept
06:03.54JeffM2501rl?
06:03.59blast007real life
06:03.59EpyonRogueLike :P
06:04.04blast007oh
06:04.08JeffM2501what does that mean?
06:04.16JeffM2501you keep saying that, but what the heck is it?
06:04.25blast007Epyon: guess I was thinking of that OTHER "rl"  :)
06:04.30EpyonDoom has one, Castlevania has one, Aliens has one, BZFlag could gave one :P
06:04.48EpyonRoguelike's are game's like Rogue. Ever played it?
06:04.54JeffM2501no
06:05.05EpyonRogue, NetHack, ADOM, Angband...
06:05.16Epyon... DoomRL?
06:05.20blast007http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(computer_game)
06:05.20JeffM2501no
06:05.27*** part/#bzflag gl2tosl2 (n=leif@71-215-255-135.mpls.qwest.net)
06:05.33Epyon*sigh* too bad :(
06:05.44JeffM2501text
06:05.48JeffM2501meh, no thanks
06:05.56JeffM2501gee, would have NEVER guessed ;)
06:06.07blast007I haven't played a game like that in a while
06:06.11EpyonJeffM2501, content over presentation, randomness over preprepared content ;]
06:06.34blast007used to play games of that graphical quality on my ... 8086
06:06.40JeffM2501I can get that in a game that dosn't look like excell puked into a dos prompt :)
06:06.42EpyonAnyway, ASCII is not a requirement.
06:06.59EpyonMany games have now graphical frontends.
06:07.09EpyonAnd... Diablo *IS* a roguelike ;]
06:07.12JeffM2501dungeon seige
06:07.31JeffM2501and bzflag is battlezone.. SURE.
06:08.33EpyonWether Blizzard admits it or not, they ripped all that's good from Angband, added Graphics/Music/Sound/Animations and ... made success :P
06:08.33JeffM2501welcome to the real world
06:08.36EpyonJeffM2501, sorry for talking about roguelikes all the time, but I'm a zealot, so please forgive me :)
06:08.37JeffM2501everyone does that
06:08.47JeffM2501in all industries
06:08.56JeffM2501bzflag isn't any more origonal then battlezone
06:09.17EpyonIt would be with random levels *hint, hint* ^_^
06:09.28JeffM2501doubtfull
06:09.44EpyonDepends on what you call "original"
06:09.49JeffM2501at it's core they are all FPS games
06:09.58JeffM2501move, shoot, kill
06:10.21EpyonWell, on the same paradigm, you can say that roguelikes, cRPGs and MMORPGs are all the same.
06:10.29JeffM2501sure
06:10.47JeffM2501and rogue probalby pulled stuff form the text games
06:10.47EpyonAnd that Frontier is the same as all the shitty space trader simulators created now.
06:10.50JeffM2501in concept
06:10.58JeffM2501please wathc your language here
06:11.24EpyonSo basicaly we come to the conclusion that all the games are basicaly the same :)
06:11.25JeffM2501it all goes back to spacewar and zork man
06:11.27EpyonJeffM2501, sorry.
06:11.29JeffM2501at some level they are
06:11.33JeffM2501diversions
06:11.40JeffM2501and the follow similar psycological rules
06:11.45JeffM2501risk, reward, etc..
06:11.51JeffM2501that's what the game designer understands
06:12.06JeffM2501they all strive to get the same emotion out of the players
06:12.07JeffM2501fun
06:12.18EpyonWell if that's your point then I'll say Frontier IS different from all the ***** space trader gamse.
06:12.20Epyongames*
06:12.31JeffM2501depends on what you personaly find fun
06:12.34JeffM2501that's the kicker
06:13.04EpyonBecause I spent days playing Frontier doing stupid things like trying to land on a Gas Giant.
06:13.29EpyonI played with the game like with a toy, and not like I would want to "challenge" it.
06:14.02JeffM2501yeah for you, it's trying to get back to that fun you remember
06:14.29EpyonAnd that was probably the most... emotional... feeling I had with any game.
06:14.34purple_cowjeff myers, psychoanalyst
06:14.42Epyon:]
06:15.33EpyonYet I know that it's not what the average player seeks in games.
06:15.58JeffM2501I read books on game design :)
06:16.18EpyonSo do I :P
06:16.27JeffM2501yay, the last remnants of vista are gone :)
06:16.32EpyonxD
06:16.54judeme too
06:17.21JeffM2501sex lies and videogames was the best one on the psycology of it all
06:19.52JeffM2501I put a compiler on this thing and acrobat and I'm good to go :)
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06:48.57judewell, bedtime for me.  good night everyone!
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07:18.08jh`any of the developers alive?
07:23.47CIA-17BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: Faces seen from outside
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08:16.13luquiI wonder why bzflag's performance on my craptop is so bad
08:16.19luquiarmagetronad runs fine
08:16.44luquiare the two doing very different things?
08:17.16L4m3rarmagetron allows you to strip graphical requirements much lower than bzflag
08:17.29luquiyes, but I have its settings fairly high
08:18.16L4m3rstill not very many polygons, though
08:18.25luquiand armagetron is running at 40fps, whereas bzflag on minimum settings is running at, um, 1/2
08:18.35luquiperhaps it is the polygon count...
08:18.39L4m3rwhat video card do you have?
08:19.09L4m3r(and what OS are you using?)
08:19.27luquiRadeon Xpress 200m (ha! yes,I'm very surprised armagetron runs as well as it does)
08:19.32luquion gentoo
08:20.33purple_cowluqui: are you who I think you are?
08:20.49luqui:-)
08:20.53purple_cowhey dude
08:21.00luquihey.  been a while.
08:21.24purple_cowhow's life treating you?
08:21.48luquifairly well.  I took a hiatus from school and am working at netdevil now
08:22.03luquifuture is hazy
08:22.08luqui:-p
08:22.23luquiyou're still hacking bzflag?
08:22.31purple_cownot really
08:22.46purple_cowI just stay in this channel and complain
08:22.56L4m3rspeaking of which, my GSoC app is in
08:23.08L4m3rthree days before the deadline, even. who knew?
08:23.25luquiL4m3r, what'd you work on?
08:23.39L4m3rnothing yet ;)
08:24.04luquiI was thinking about writing an highly (not massively, though) multiplayer action rts, and was considering bzflag as my engine
08:24.13L4m3rhahahahaha NO
08:24.21luqui?
08:24.29L4m3rbzflag uses a stone-age engine
08:24.50luquiyeah.  I was hoping that it had matured in the, what, two years since I'd played it
08:24.58L4m3rnope
08:25.00luquieven at 1/2 frame per second, I could see that it hadn't much
08:25.23L4m3r2.0 was a big leap forward in many respects but not a whole lot since then, relatively
08:25.31purple_cowwell, it has
08:25.41L4m3rand that was, just over two years ago iirc :P
08:25.45purple_cowyou can do all sorts of custom models in the maps, and stuff
08:25.58purple_cowbut that's hard, so noone makes those sorts of maps
08:26.12luquiKISS etc.
08:26.18L4m3rthose that do tend to overdo it (and I am one of those that do)
08:26.41L4m3rthough I try my best to keep it gameplay-oriented
08:26.50luquithat's good
08:27.06luquinetdevil has me profoundly depressed, watching all the money go into meaningless prettiness
08:27.10L4m3rand my ridiculous handcoded mesh map got me compliments from the master mapper himself, Louman ;)
08:27.48L4m3rbut the engine has not changed, and it won't change either
08:28.09luquitoo bad
08:28.23L4m3rmost of the development team seems to be leaning towards using an existing engine as a preferrable option to reinventing the wheel for the nth time
08:28.45L4m3rI forget which ones they are considering... but if you want an egine, use those :P
08:28.59luquiwell, more like I want to use a game
08:29.02ManuL4m3r: welcome to the GSoC ;)
08:29.02luquiand add some stuff to it
08:29.09L4m3rthank you Manu :)
08:30.16L4m3rhope my proposal isn't too lofty
08:30.27Manuno :)
08:30.29L4m3ror rather, I hope one or two others want to do something similar
08:30.59luquiso, to follow up my obviously-flawed "what'd you do" question: what'r'u going to do?
08:31.20L4m3rmost likely, work on communication enhancements for the game
08:31.49L4m3rlobby, inter-server chat, IRC or jabber integration, yadda yadda yadda
08:33.15L4m3rI'd really like to become one of the regular devs eventually, and I think GSoC probably isn't a bad place to start
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08:46.26purple_cowL4m3r: what's your name again?  I think the only time I met you, you introduced yourself as "L4m3r" :P
08:54.35L4m3rChris
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14:16.36elgwhat other AI frameworks are there besides robocode? which are the most important to consider interacting with?
14:28.14brlcadelg: there are several .. robocode is by far one of the most popular, but there are other really good ones
14:28.58brlcadthe swarm environment is another prime popular "system", but it'd be hard to integrate with them I think
14:30.42brlcadelg: http://www.gameai.com/exaigames.html has a listing of some others
14:30.59brlcaddoesn't seem mature, but there's also http://robots.student.utwente.nl/
14:31.32brlcadmore links, http://www.google.com/search?q=robot+AI+API
14:38.44elgthanks
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15:35.06azaghalSo, any developers on the channel? :)
15:37.26LongDonyes, but i am none
15:37.50azaghalHeh
15:37.50LongDon;)
15:39.15azaghalI need one to answer some SoC-related questions ;)
15:40.09quantumdotazaghal: you need to answer? or need respnse?
15:40.29quantumdotresponse*
15:40.29azaghalI need response
15:40.36quantumdotmanu ping
15:40.55quantumdotthen ping JeffM2501
15:41.09tsand don't forget brlcad ;)
15:41.09azaghalWell, I don't want to harass people.
15:42.03eTangenTazaghal: but harrassing people is the fun of it all!
15:42.05eTangenT:D
15:42.09quantumdotyes, do NOT forget brlcad :)
15:42.11tsWhat's wrong with asking the mentors questions that aren't answered on the wiki?
15:42.26tsI do not see a problem there
15:42.36azaghalWell, they will eventually see my question on irc (I think)
15:42.53menotumethey will now :)
15:43.01azaghalThey might be doing something important
15:43.08tsyep, the data is logged
15:43.15quantumdotalso, do not forget pinging menotume :)
15:43.18menotumeand, burlycade's name was mentioned :P
15:43.19tsthey'll read their logs, so just ask
15:43.24quantumdotmost of all, ping menotume
15:43.28Manuquantumdot: pong
15:43.28menotumelol
15:43.35quantumdothere it is
15:43.44azaghalHeh
15:43.50tsManu: A student with questions :)
15:43.58quantumdotazaghal needs some responses to SoC
15:44.21menotumedon't make the poor guy/gal nervous
15:44.25tsazaghal: Ask :)
15:44.29azaghalOk
15:44.31quantumdotask!!!
15:44.31menotumenow that the entire channel is watching
15:44.35Manuhe can ask and wait for a response ;)
15:44.48azaghalI'm interested about the chat idea that you want implemented
15:44.50quantumdot:-D
15:45.55quantumdotI want menotume to mentor me :-*
15:46.34menotumei am 'mental', not 'mentor'
15:46.42quantumdotpffft
15:46.42menotumeazaghal: ok
15:46.44tsheh
15:46.45azaghalBasically, are there any more specifications that you can provide? Such as from where it should be accessible? Should it be a widget?
15:47.05menotumeahhh, it would integrated into the game client
15:47.22menotumenot a 'widget' per say
15:47.27azaghalOf course, but where exactly? Any part of the client?
15:47.30menotumecurrently, we use ogl
15:47.47menotumegood question, and i don't know the answer
15:48.08menotumehave you played bzflag ?
15:48.17azaghalWell, only a little :)
15:48.20menotumeok
15:48.28Manuazaghal: you can try to play bzflag and see how we chat actually
15:48.40menotumemy *guess* is that it's up to you to 'propse' an interface
15:48.51azaghalOk
15:48.51Manuif you thinkg can do something better, just submit your idea
15:48.57menotumeright
15:49.23menotumethe current interface is rather simple
15:49.46azaghalJust to make sure: we are talking about "Cross server communications system"?
15:49.56menotumeyes
15:50.17azaghalWill the chat server be provided by the game server?
15:50.40azaghalOr should there be a possibility of using some external server (some of the jabber ones, for example)?
15:50.45Manuazaghal: I guess this what you must decide ;)
15:50.49menotume:)\
15:50.49azaghalHeh
15:50.51Manuthis is*
15:51.13azaghalOk, I'll add backdoor support as well ;)
15:51.19menotumeweeeee
15:51.29menotumehow about a nice game of chess ?
15:51.55tsazaghal: Jabber and IRC is ok, according to the wiki page
15:52.08menotumeas an example, yes :)
15:52.26azaghalOk.
15:52.42menotumeazaghal: i think the idea is for YOU to prose what YOU think is a good solution.
15:52.47menotume'propse'
15:52.50menotumeegads
15:53.12menotumepropose. keeping in mind what your are familiar / comfortable with
15:53.22azaghalI understand that, but I still might need some information.
15:53.24azaghalThanks for the help ;)
15:53.46menotumeyes, the project description is a it vauge
15:53.56menotumeand, meno can't type
15:54.17tsmenotume: Well, I often can't type, either. ;)
15:54.36menotumeperhpas you could become more familiar with how the chatting works now, get in there and play the game, and think about how it could be better
15:55.19menotumeok, well, afk time for me, good luck azaghal
15:55.24azaghalThanks
15:55.26azaghalJust one more
15:55.29menotumeok
15:55.37azaghalHas anyone applied for the idea already?
15:55.43menotumei don't know
15:55.50azaghalOk
15:56.08Razieleuh, hi xD
15:57.16menotumeRaziel the lurker :P
15:57.31Raziel^^u
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16:04.54blast007azaghal: I think one that that was discussed was a lobby where players could talk before entering a game
16:04.57blast007crud
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16:14.47Manublast007: he is out ;)
16:21.06blast007noticed  ;)
16:22.14Manublast007: I know. I'm only remarking it ;)
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17:19.54CIA-17BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/plugins/logDetail/logDetail.cpp: Add filtered messages
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17:26.54delusional_speed cheat on hepcat, cpt jake
17:29.31Thumper_more like excessive jitter
17:29.38Thumper_340ms +/- 345ms
17:30.01ruskie:)
17:30.50Thumper_JeffM2501: you around?
17:34.00Thumper_I want to rename bz_eMessagFilteredEvent to bz_eMessageFilteredEvent - any objections?
17:38.25Thumper_I don't think anyone uses this before today and it's all in one commit so it's easy to undo... so here goes
17:40.17CIA-17BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Typo: Change plugin event bz_eMessagFilteredEvent to bz_eMessageFilteredEvent
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17:54.16Arsagelooks like they updated SoC applications through the 26th?
17:54.20Arsage(code.google.com/soc)
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17:57.46Torghulyes they did
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18:26.57[darek]hi Tupone :)
18:27.05Tuponehi darek
18:27.38Tuponehow is going?
18:27.53Tuponehave you seen my pyramids?
18:28.02TuponeHave to fix texturing
18:29.15[darek]no.. I didn't saw, updating...
18:29.15eTangenTTupone: so far the CS screens look nice
18:29.17eTangenTgood work
18:30.11Tuponethanks eTangenT, I better prefer you see on your screen, rather than from mine
18:30.22Tupone:)
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18:40.47[darek]Tupone: hmm first I need to find a map with pyramids ;)
18:42.55ndim[darek]: catay's fancy 1vs1 server?
18:43.09Tuponethe random map that you get if you start a local server is with pyr
18:45.35[darek]ok
18:46.38[darek]Tupone: I see, the blue one ?
18:46.45Tuponeyep
18:46.51[darek]it's very high
18:46.52Tuponeare they pyramids?
18:47.47[darek]I think so...
18:48.22Tuponeok. I have to fix the texture. Have you got commit emails?
18:49.36[darek]I have no emails
18:49.46Tuponenever get ?
18:50.37Tuponeyou should register to some mailing list on SF
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18:55.24CIA-17BZFlag: 03darekdawidowski 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/data/world: disabled shadow casting for terrain and mountains.
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19:23.37CIA-17BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: ws
19:25.00TimRikerwoot! ws!
19:26.54tupone_laptophttp://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client
19:27.53Thumper_heh
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19:28.13Agahnimhello
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19:28.27Agahnimi need help, i cant compile bzflag
19:28.28tstupone_laptop: Is that viper`?
19:28.36tupone_laptopyep
19:28.40tsgah, darn `
19:29.08Agahnimhm
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19:30.06Agahnimhelp
19:31.04Agahnimg++: /usr/lib/libcurl.so: No such file or directory
19:31.16Agahnimwhat i make wrong?
19:31.42tupone_laptopyou have to install libcurl
19:32.38Agahnimi have
19:32.42Agahnimlibcurl3
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19:33.05Agahnimlibcurl3 is already the newest version.
19:33.19Agahnimsay my debian :D
19:33.32Thumper_<PROTECTED>
19:34.58Agahnimk i test it
19:35.32Agahnimyeah it workd
19:35.34Agahnims
19:35.35Agahnim:D
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19:38.56KTLhow come the compiler complains about the missing binary while he even did not had the headers yet
19:39.23Agahnimthx a lotz
19:39.26Agahnimit works
19:39.28Agahnimyeaaaaaahhh
19:39.33Agahnim:D
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20:11.04Agahnimhow can i change the map on server?
20:11.08Agahnimrunning*
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20:13.19a_temp_distAgahnim, you have to restart a server to change a map
20:13.27Agahnimthats bad :/
20:13.41Agahnimwhy we cant change map ingame?
20:13.45Agahnimlike /changemap
20:13.47Agahnim:D
20:14.15a_temp_distwe have a /mapchange plugin - but it restarts a server on the fly
20:14.15a_temp_disthttp://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9903
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20:45.59tupone_laptop[darek], how is going your understanding of bzflag source code?
20:49.48[darek]tupone_laptop: slowly ;)
20:50.19[darek]but in general it's clear
20:50.26tupone_laptopI'm currently fighting with doing pyramids. Have to make submesh
20:50.56tupone_laptopif you want to help on doing that. My head is crashing
20:51.00tupone_laptop:)
20:51.14[darek]but what exactly is the problem ?
20:51.56JeffM2501pyramids have one material
20:51.59JeffM2501why a submesh?
20:52.06tupone_laptopwell, no real problem. Have to put the texture on
20:52.21tupone_laptopwell, maybe only more vertex
20:52.24JeffM2501did you see my docs on of the base objects are UVed
20:52.41JeffM2501it'll have 4 faces with 3 vers, and 1 with 4
20:52.57JeffM2501so 18 verts.
20:53.18[darek]tupone_laptop: yes you need to use exclusive vertices for face not submesh in this case
20:53.21tupone_laptopuv for the top can be shared I guess so only one top. Is that ok?
20:53.32JeffM2501NONE of the UVs can be shared
20:53.39JeffM2501split them all
20:53.48JeffM2501since they will have difrent normals
20:53.53tupone_laptopahh
20:53.54tupone_laptopok
20:54.18JeffM2501sharing only works for verts on a smooth surface
20:54.23tupone_laptopunderstand
20:54.26JeffM2501as they will share pos, UV, and normal
20:54.28tupone_laptoplike for tank
20:54.34JeffM2501as soon as you got a corner, you split
20:54.46JeffM2501some of tank verts are sared, some are split
20:54.57JeffM2501depends if you want the corner soft or hard
20:55.07tupone_laptopyep
20:55.08JeffM2501organics usualy share
20:55.55[darek]btw current tanks in CS branch sharing vertices
20:56.04[darek]it' I guess it's temporary
20:56.05JeffM2501that isn't correct
20:56.21[darek]because you gave me wavefront obj, and it uglu imported to blender
20:56.26JeffM2501I just imported the obj, and expected blender to dump it correclty, looking at vertex normals.
20:56.27[darek]yes I know
20:56.41[darek]but importer made hundreds unnecessary verts
20:56.43JeffM2501the exporter won't look at the normals to see if it should be split?
20:56.49JeffM2501eww
20:57.23[darek]it's temporary also I guess you have better modes (with visible wheels)
20:57.30[darek]models*
20:57.39JeffM2501not as a fhile
20:57.40JeffM2501file
20:57.49JeffM2501our tanks are generated in code
20:57.57[darek]ah
20:58.11JeffM2501I made the model by making an app that saved the GL vert calls, and wrote it out as a model
20:58.22[darek]I see
20:58.24JeffM2501just to have it for artwork
20:58.34JeffM2501that was before the treads and stuf where added.
20:58.53[darek]maybe for CS branch better use 'real' model ?
20:59.03JeffM2501if someone made one, sure
20:59.26[darek]ok
20:59.40[darek]i'll try to find some time and make some changes
20:59.40JeffM2501I personaly dislike the current model
21:00.20[darek]do you have any sketches with ideas how it should look ?
21:00.39JeffM2501the current is based on the M1A1, so similar to that I guess.
21:00.52JeffM2501the on on the wiki would be nice
21:01.23JeffM2501I had done these variatins a while ago
21:01.25JeffM2501http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/tanksite/
21:01.27JeffM2501never UVed it
21:01.42JeffM2501hate the 1/2 covererd treads
21:02.07[darek]looks nic4
21:02.10[darek]nice
21:03.10[darek]how it's made ?  also in ogl ?
21:04.09JeffM2501oh god no :)
21:04.14JeffM2501that's done in lightwave :)
21:05.04[darek]:)
21:05.26JeffM2501the current tank done in code is not like that due to our design choice
21:05.47[darek]when I finish my current tasks to end of month - I can help with tank model too
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21:38.34tupone_laptop16 vertex
21:38.48tupone_laptop4 x 3 + 4
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21:43.22JeffM2501me dumb at math :)
21:43.30tupone_laptop:)
21:43.38tupone_laptopjust kidding
21:44.13tupone_laptopI did and then I saw 0-15 . Why not 0.17 ? :)
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21:45.01JeffM2501intalling stuff on new laptop still :(
21:45.13tupone_laptopwhat kind of stuff?
21:45.24tupone_laptopirrlicht?
21:45.40JeffM2501VC, photoshop
21:45.49JeffM2501cvs, svn
21:45.54JeffM2501geting the code I need
21:46.09JeffM2501so yeah CS, irr, bz, fmod, etc..
21:46.16purple_cowhah, fmod
21:46.52JeffM2501blender just went
21:46.53JeffM2501yeah yeah, shut yer gob ;)
21:46.53KTLuw nice tanks
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21:51.37KTLme too, /me loves jordan allready :P
21:58.32tupone_laptophttp://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client
21:58.32tupone_laptopPyramids are ok now
21:58.33[darek]nice :)
21:59.11JeffM2501did you use the right UVs?
21:59.15tupone_laptopwell, they looked strange at beginning, and didn't realize what was. Smooth vertex. Now the yare sharp
21:59.16tupone_laptopyep
21:59.21tupone_laptopfrom the old code
21:59.21JeffM2501cool
21:59.23JeffM2501ahh
21:59.24tupone_laptophope is good
21:59.29JeffM2501I made a doc from the old code if you want it
21:59.36JeffM2501looks good
21:59.43tupone_laptopwell, isn't in the wiki?
21:59.47JeffM2501no
21:59.49JeffM2501CVS
21:59.56JeffM2501it's part of the tools/bzedit
22:00.36tupone_laptopnew branch?
22:00.48JeffM2501tools it's it's own module
22:00.54tupone_laptopahh
22:00.56JeffM2501not tied to the bzflag module at all
22:01.14tupone_laptopwhy not putting in the wiki?
22:01.36tupone_laptopwell, when you are done with the lappy
22:02.21JeffM2501dunno
22:02.27JeffM2501was done ages before the wiki
22:04.12tupone_laptopJeffM2501, do you remember what to do to get commit emails? Is that automatic or [darek] needs to subscribe?
22:04.27JeffM2501you have to subscribe
22:08.58TimRikerthere is a email list on SF. just join the list.
22:09.16CIA-17BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: Pyramids texturing done
22:10.16[darek]tupone_laptop: I did already
22:10.23tupone_laptopahh ok
22:11.13tupone_laptopgood
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22:20.44[darek]nite
22:32.03Links2004[Links]hi i have a idea for new roming control
22:32.41Links2004[Links]<-  ^ ->.. to X Y pos
22:32.44Links2004[Links]+  - Zpos
22:32.45GuuI don't know!
22:33.12Links2004[Links]<PROTECTED>
22:33.50bradwhat about the people on laptops who dont have a numpad? ;)
22:34.21Links2004[Links]add a config menu ?
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22:35.02brado i c :P
22:35.12Links2004[Links]? o i c ?
22:35.26Rawkoh, I see
22:35.28bradsry, oh I see
22:36.38Links2004[Links]or a option for set old oder new style
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22:50.33Constitutionso a moving/rotating turret is okay with the devs now, per the GSoC wiki page (Two-player tanks idea)?
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22:51.29tupone_laptopis not ok. Who wrote that?
22:52.20L4m3rthe devs have never really had a gripe with the two-player tanks concept
22:52.22L4m3rafaik
22:53.15L4m3rbrlcad did it
22:54.35tupone_laptophehe
22:54.54L4m3rkeeping it simple would be a challenge
22:54.56L4m3ras would lag
22:56.05KTLanybody who played the game half an hour and thought a bit would understand why a moving turret is not welcome, because it would imply a totally different game
22:56.27purple_cowthat crazy brlcad
22:58.51Rawknaughty brlcad ;-)
22:59.05L4m3ra two player system COULD work out in a similar method
22:59.32L4m3rstill simplistic enough if you ask me, though if implmented it probably would not be long before someone hacked the client to do both at once
22:59.57blast007split screen you mean?
23:00.23L4m3ror dual monitors, or just staying with one viewport
23:00.46L4m3rnot exactly a trivial thing to do, but not THAT hard I think
23:01.35KTLso you have the shooter and driver next to each other?
23:01.40KTL(argh)
23:07.38purple_cowurrgh
23:07.42purple_cowwho added BZDB.getPointer?
23:08.35purple_cowthat is seriously uncool
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23:34.06brlcadConstitution: it's not just "moving turret" -- it's specific to a multi-player tank
23:34.51brlcadeach player would have the same degrees of freedom as before -- which has been the original constraint of not adding more complexity to the input controls than already exists
23:35.21brlcadi.e. you specifically would not be able to drive the tank and move the turret independently as a single player
23:36.23brlcadwith a gunner and a driver, though, the controls actually remain pretty much identical for both players, just one only controls driving and the other only controls turret aim and firing
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23:41.40brlcadL4m3r: yeah.. simple will be hard -- I think the hardest part will be what the interface is actually like for joining/departing a tank pairing
23:41.58L4m3rI think lag will be the hardest part ;)
23:42.10L4m3rperhaps a direct connection between players would be idea
23:42.13L4m3rideal*
23:42.39brlcadi think subspace had you fly over/near the teammate that you wanted to join, then you requested a join via a keybinding -- and the other player would see a request and allow or reject (iirc)
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23:42.57Constitutionhmm
23:42.57ConstitutionI see
23:43.12L4m3rI app'd, BTW
23:43.46brlcadL4m3r: lag shouldn't really be complicated.. it's like being in observer mode "driving with .." someone
23:44.03L4m3rI suppose
23:44.03brlcadsomeone else would be driving, you'd just have control of the turret/firing
23:44.04KTLI got a pointer, i clearly see it is still pointing to an object, the object has been made with new, i do a delete and i get on that spot in the code:  *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer
23:44.48brlcadKTL: it can still seemingly point to data, yet be a pointer that is invalid or already freed
23:45.00brlcadyeah
23:45.22KTLand still ...  there is only 1 delete in my code
23:45.29brlcadKTL: be sure to set your pointers to NULL after delete everywhere and see if it still looks like it's pointing to anything
23:45.35KTLthe really first time it is used it crashes allready
23:45.35DTRemenakdoes your code call someone else's code?
23:46.00DTRemenak'cause they may be rudely deleting it for you
23:46.04brlcadyou could easily have one delete and be calling it multiple times
23:46.08KTLthere is qt ...
23:46.26KTLbut qt has nothing to do with the object i delete
23:46.28brlcadahh, their api may be doing auto pointers by default .. have to read their api
23:46.43KTLit is in fact a boost smart point i am using
23:46.47KTLpointer
23:47.00brlcader ..
23:47.11KTLI made a class with a reference counter
23:47.13brlcadwell .. then what are you calling delete for?
23:47.36KTLwell if the reference counter hits 0 then you are still supposed to delete it yourself no?
23:47.52KTLintrusive_ptr_add_ref
23:47.53JeffM2501it's smart
23:47.55KTLintrusive_ptr_release
23:48.05KTLthese things are still handed out to the user
23:48.08brlcadthat's what a smart pointer does for you when it does out of scope and has no references remaining
23:48.22purple_cowbrlcad: what makes a white russian "sexy" ?
23:48.41JeffM2501purple_cow, I'm going to go with "breasts"
23:48.46brlcadpurple_cow: the "vessel" :)
23:49.03KTLi use boost/intrusive_ptr.hpp
23:49.32KTLnever had any trouble with it, used it a lot
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23:51.35CIA-17BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx:
23:51.35CIA-17BZFlag: Pull more stuff out of the main switch into separate functions. Clean up a
23:51.35CIA-17BZFlag: little, and sigh a deep sigh of disapproval at BZDB.getPointer.
23:52.03JeffM2501who's sticking pointers in there?
23:52.41purple_cowJeffM2501: brlcad, I think
23:52.43brlcadJeffM2501: it's always had a pointer in there in leu of having another global
23:53.26purple_cowthat's dumb!
23:53.27brlcadthat goes back like two and a half years
23:53.27JeffM2501make a singleton :)
23:53.33purple_cowit's a total excuse for lazy object design, but it doesn't have the same bad smell as a global!
23:53.39JeffM2501maybe I'll make it a global if I get bored in lancaster :)
23:53.41brlcadJeffM2501: it's actually not a singleton though -- at least at a class level
23:53.51JeffM2501brlcad, is there only 1 ever?
23:53.56purple_cowsingletons are lazy design too!
23:54.30brlcadJeffM2501: no, there actually are more than one (or there were, forget the last state)
23:54.40purple_cow"I don't actually want to think about how and where this will be used, so I'll just make it accessible from anywhere"
23:54.51JeffM2501how do you get bzdb to hold more then one?
23:55.17brlcadDTRemenak: I think someone specifically added that in response to the filter :P
23:55.56DTRemenakbrlcad: no, it's significantly older
23:56.05brlcadhey, I don't care where it's at -- I think it's the lesser of two evils, even though both are evil -- ya'll welcome to change it if you feel different, but as for me - meh :)
23:56.14JeffM2501brlcad, you wanted him back, you pay the price :)
23:56.17DTRemenakSat Aug 23 06:43:29 2003 UTC by davidtrowbridge ;)
23:56.25brlcadJeffM2501: heh
23:57.20JeffM2501lets see if this lapy can build bz now :)
23:57.24DTRemenakhm, or maybe your commit is even older than that
23:57.29DTRemenakThu Aug 21 22:46:33 2003 UTC
23:57.38JeffM2501gets a nice 75-80 fps on fullsettings.
23:58.02DTRemenakso who's the lazy one now...someone saw him commit it, wrote a doc to object, and didn't fix it...comes back 3.5 years later and complains :P
23:58.07JeffM2501tupone_laptop, how much of the gui have you ripped out?
23:58.15brlcadDTRemenak: could be wrong, but I remember him adding the object broker comments after he saw how I abused the precious bzdb :)
23:58.24DTRemenakbrlcad: yup
23:58.30DTRemenakit was just earlier than you remembered
23:58.40brlcadit was that long ago?
23:58.42brlcadyeesh
23:58.43DTRemenakyeah
23:58.55tupone_laptopgui is stil there
23:59.24brlcadthat was actually to motivate someone to work on global's elimination too.. see how much progress we've made :)
23:59.25tupone_laptopand maybe some is incompatible, Just changed the one that broke my machine
23:59.50tupone_laptop:) hola brlcad
23:59.59brlcadciao signore

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