02:04.01 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
02:04.01 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in GSoC: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code || GSoC students -- please include your irc nick in your proposal |
02:04.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
02:04.22 | L4m3r | hello ibot |
02:04.30 | L4m3r | ~ibot++ |
02:04.58 | a_temp_dist | I've always wondered why WG wasn't placed in the same class of flags as L, GM, SW - with a white label |
02:05.41 | L4m3r | the white label doesn't really mean anything, it's only used in the scoreboard |
02:06.02 | L4m3r | you are free to modify scoreboardRenderer.cxx to correct the problem ;) |
02:06.34 | L4m3r | (I believe my scoreboard tweak highlights WG like GM/L/SW) |
02:07.23 | a_temp_dist | if I had the powa i would - but it seems to mean _something_ to players - like here's an dangerous flag watch out! |
02:10.22 | brlcad | poolio: you mean bzrobots? |
02:10.28 | L4m3r | I meant for yourself. ;) I'm sure it was just an oversight when WG was added. it's such a small, subtle feature that I don't think it ever crossed anyone's mind. |
02:10.33 | poolio | brlcad: yeah |
02:10.43 | brlcad | it was done for an academic course -- so it was done fast and dirty |
02:10.48 | poolio | =) |
02:11.06 | brlcad | http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/ |
02:11.10 | brlcad | that's the basis |
02:11.48 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
02:12.22 | brlcad | utah |
02:12.54 | poolio | ah, there's a brigham women's hospital that i'm thinking of... |
02:14.19 | poolio | brlcad: the idea of bzrc sounds very similar to what's being proposed with the headless client |
02:14.59 | trovao | brlcad: I know the willing students should demonstrate some basic knowledge about the subject and I guess the greatest win in being accepted in SoC would be to actually learn with those that make things happen ($4500 is a LOT of money for those in "developing" countries, though) |
02:15.08 | trovao | So, I won't lie. The most "advanced" game AI knowledge I have came from "Game AI by example" (the book). And I assume game AI has "nothing" to do with the scientific one. |
02:15.39 | trovao | I know it doesn't matter much, but I'll try my best to write an ass-kicking realistic (for me) proposal (not that it will change much, but its an honor question, now) :) |
02:15.57 | trovao | sorry for the flood :) |
02:20.50 | brlcad | poolio: it is similar because it could simply be seen as an idea to take bzrobots to the next level by a) cleaning up the back-end implementation so that there's a clean API that can be coded to, b) cleaning up the code so that it's more properly headless, and c) a more comprehensive scripting interface (whether it's the current telnet-to-port approach or something more direct ala swig, etc) |
02:21.44 | brlcad | trovao: game ai has a lot to do with the science -- it just has to take into account many many practical considerations like memory and cpu utilization, trainability, etc |
02:22.40 | brlcad | just try not to oversell your abilities -- there's room to figure stuff out, but I couldn't teach even the basic topics through the summer -- you'd only be pointed in general directions |
02:23.36 | trovao | brlcad: yeah, but at least where I study, there aren't design decisions involved. The teacher will say: implement the xxx heuristic, it must run in x seconds at most |
02:23.50 | trovao | this is the different part |
02:23.54 | trovao | brlcad: I won't :D |
02:24.45 | brlcad | trovao: cept for an interactive game like bz -- that x seconds is probably more like 0.02 seconds |
02:24.56 | brlcad | though there is some wiggle room :) |
02:25.25 | brlcad | and plenty of cpu time for planning and memory |
02:26.00 | trovao | I'm sorry, english isn't my primary language. What does wiggle mean? |
02:27.50 | a_temp_dist | in this case something like "inaccuracy in measurement" |
02:28.07 | poolio | a_temp_dist: Are you foreign too? |
02:28.10 | brlcad | ~x en pt wiggle |
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02:28.15 | trovao | a_temp_dist: thanks |
02:28.22 | brlcad | heh |
02:28.37 | a_temp_dist | i'm foreign from most of the world's perspective, but not mine\ |
02:28.42 | brlcad | there's some flexibility is all that meant to imply |
02:30.42 | trovao | brlcad: about the general directions thing you talked about, most teachers (I don't know how should I translate "orientadores", maybe orientators?) do that, there are the students as they just say "study x and implement y" |
02:31.21 | trovao | I am familiar with this type of learning. My main problem would be the time constraint, I know a winter isn't much time to learn lots of things |
02:31.43 | trovao | summer = winter in the "bottom" part of the globe |
02:34.16 | trovao | brlcad: I don't want to pick on you, I was just trying to explain my point of view |
02:34.45 | trovao | you've been one of the most helpful persons I've 'met' in the Open Source world |
02:35.12 | poolio | brlcad: it sounds like the rewriting of the headless client would mean revamping the entire client codebase. If you want to stay OO you would have both the real human client and the bot client be derived from the same main class. It'd be a pain but it'd reduce duplicate code |
02:36.02 | brlcad | that is the general idea, seria un orientador .. aunque los developers se cominican y traban juntos.. generalmente (sorry, can't write pt ;) |
02:37.26 | brlcad | poolio: not so much rewriting it, as refactoring it to put a better layer in between the communications with the application logic and the controlling bot code |
02:37.27 | trovao | brad: no problem, and thanks |
02:37.45 | purple_cow | which is really how it should have been done to begin with |
02:37.50 | purple_cow | *ahem* |
02:37.57 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah sorry, rewriting/refactoring same time-consuming crap :) |
02:38.02 | purple_cow | so are we gonna move to svn to make branching/merging easier for SoC? ;-) |
02:38.09 | brlcad | they did what was absolutely minimalist |
02:38.13 | poolio | svn or bust. |
02:38.29 | brlcad | by the time it starts, we should be migrated |
02:38.38 | poolio | How many students are you planning on taking for SoC? |
02:38.45 | brlcad | poolio: hence part of the project :) |
02:38.55 | brlcad | we don't decide how many -- google does |
02:39.20 | brlcad | though we have enough mentorship to support probably 6 or 7 |
02:39.27 | poolio | So who evaluates the proposals? You or google? |
02:39.29 | brlcad | we do |
02:39.48 | poolio | brlcad: and the number? do they just say we'll sponsor x people? |
02:39.57 | brlcad | pretty much |
02:40.42 | poolio | I just started thinking about what to do this summer so I might throw an application your guys way |
02:41.16 | brlcad | we have about a week after the submission deadline to review all proposals, ask questions if needed, and rank them -- google then lets us know how many they're going to support |
02:41.39 | brlcad | poolio: please do, there are several ideas that are entirely unclaimed yet |
02:41.41 | poolio | brlcad: so google sees the applications gives you a number, and you pick the ones you like? |
02:41.56 | poolio | brlcad: Such as? I'm pretty interested in AI but it seems like you have plenty of people covering that |
02:42.13 | brlcad | we review and rank before we know how many will be accepted |
02:42.36 | poolio | brlcad: so if you rank say 20 people, and they take 2, are you obliged to take the ones you ranked 1 and 2? |
02:42.42 | brlcad | poolio: there are, though each proposal has it's own good and bad points |
02:43.00 | brlcad | poolio: not "obliged" but something like that |
02:43.13 | poolio | Alright, thanks for the clarification |
02:43.20 | brlcad | the student can also turn down the application acceptance (e.g. if they were approved for multiple submissions) |
02:43.35 | poolio | And just out of curiousity, how has the gsoc affected the usage/popularity of bzflag? |
02:43.51 | brlcad | er, the program has just started |
02:44.07 | brlcad | we didn't participate previous years |
02:44.12 | poolio | Well no, as in are you experiencing lots of traffic now that you're part of the project |
02:44.20 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
02:45.03 | purple_cow | there are certainly a lot more people here asking about development |
02:45.13 | purple_cow | but that's probably just the smell of money |
02:45.17 | brlcad | slightly higher than average/usual playing for this time of day .. but could just be normal fluctuation |
02:45.27 | poolio | Cool cool. |
02:45.36 | poolio | I'm mainly just looking for something to pay the bills and let me code something I'm interested in |
02:45.45 | poolio | College is expensive :\ |
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02:48.46 | brlcad | problemas? :) |
02:49.10 | trovao | brlcad: something at my ISP went down |
02:50.02 | trovao | I thought my router was locked up, but it is a quite strong pentium i200 |
02:56.03 | poolio | Oh crap. March 26th deadline :\ |
02:56.21 | trovao | poolio: wasn't it 24th? |
02:56.31 | brlcad | it was |
02:56.36 | brlcad | they extended it through the weekend |
02:56.44 | trovao | cool! two more days! |
02:59.46 | blast007 | heh... |
03:04.31 | Epyon | Great, but I don't think I'll be submitting more applications :) |
03:05.14 | poolio | Anyone know a ballpark figure as to what % of applicants are accepted" |
03:06.25 | brlcad | depends how many apply of course |
03:06.33 | brlcad | and that's changed every year big |
03:06.59 | brlcad | Epyon: which projects have you submitted to? |
03:07.13 | Epyon | BZFlag xD |
03:07.32 | poolio | brlcad: eg last year =) |
03:07.44 | Epyon | Google knows. |
03:08.00 | brlcad | they reported the stats, but I forget where exactly |
03:08.23 | Epyon | But that would interest me actually ;] |
03:08.39 | Epyon | brlcad, honestly tough, I only applied to two projects. |
03:08.50 | Epyon | But I doubt I will get the second one. |
03:08.58 | brlcad | Epyon: did you put your irc nick to your app? |
03:09.09 | Epyon | I think I did. |
03:09.10 | DTRemenak|RDP | yes, he did |
03:09.15 | Epyon | Yeah, yes I did :) |
03:09.34 | brlcad | what was the title? |
03:09.43 | Epyon | My problem is that nothing listed in the ideas section of any project interests me :/ |
03:09.44 | brlcad | or basic subject even |
03:09.59 | Epyon | Random level generation, we talked about it AFAIK ;] |
03:10.03 | brlcad | oooh |
03:10.05 | brlcad | right |
03:10.29 | brlcad | didn't remember the name, and I just finished reading :) |
03:10.40 | brlcad | long day.. |
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03:11.26 | Epyon | But I am conscious, that what I proposed is a bonus feature, and the devs will probably want needed stuff done instead :/ |
03:13.02 | poolio | Is there a suggest project to make the game as a whole look prettier :) |
03:13.36 | brlcad | actually, I think your proposal is one of the best so far |
03:13.54 | Epyon | poolio, that one wouldn't be to hard, just allow me to plug in my models and rerender fonts :P |
03:13.57 | brlcad | it would benefit the game directly, and supports a research angle |
03:14.10 | Epyon | brlcad :) |
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03:14.53 | Epyon | brlcad, but I always imagined OS games were more about technical stuff than content, no offence |
03:14.54 | brlcad | and research (in particular the AI notions for starters) was actually one of the criteria that helped us earn acceptance as a GSoC mentoring organization |
03:14.56 | poolio | brlcad: Booo! Hiss! A better AI system would allow for play even when all your friends ditched you to go out and you were stuck in your basement playing bzflag! |
03:15.27 | Epyon | poolio, yeah, and it would help when the beer is gone xD |
03:16.06 | brlcad | Epyon: none taken, and is probably pretty true -- doesn't take great content to make a great game -- takes great gameplay |
03:16.19 | trovao | poolio: like action cube |
03:16.21 | poolio | Just look at the whole Wii vs. PS3 deal |
03:16.36 | brlcad | poolio: AI is in the same category :P |
03:17.05 | poolio | brlcad: Sorry, same category as what? |
03:17.06 | brlcad | it's in our interest to support the AI angle as that was a big basis for our acceptance |
03:17.11 | purple_cow | oh my goodness |
03:17.16 | purple_cow | I don't have cscope on this machine |
03:17.17 | Epyon | brlcad, gameplay is also about content :) |
03:17.25 | poolio | Muahaha. Looks like I shall have to write up a proposal. |
03:17.45 | Epyon | brlcad, the more you go away from abstract things like tetris the more content you need. |
03:19.00 | brlcad | aside from there just not being that many decent open source games, you'll notice that there aren't other games on the list -- the closest is ScummVM and Thousand Parsec, but they're frameworks for playing and building games respectively |
03:19.09 | poolio | is bzflag 2d? |
03:19.25 | blast007 | it has a 3D aspect |
03:19.28 | brlcad | poolio: you might want to at pleast play bzflag for a little while before submitting a proposal :) |
03:19.31 | poolio | I have |
03:19.35 | poolio | I know it's "3d" |
03:19.35 | trovao | it IS 3D |
03:19.36 | blast007 | but some play it by the 2D radar ;) |
03:19.47 | poolio | but in terms of collision detection and AI |
03:19.58 | poolio | the world might as well be perceived in 2 dimensions, correct? |
03:20.06 | brlcad | not really |
03:20.10 | blast007 | the AI can jump over objects (at least the Autopilot) |
03:20.17 | brlcad | even our fsm bot will do what it can in 3d to get at you |
03:20.19 | trovao | not if you are considering that tanks can jump (and dodge fire) |
03:20.33 | poolio | Ah alright. |
03:20.41 | brlcad | and flap wings, and fall, and teleport up/down/around |
03:21.10 | trovao | they can flap wings too? awesome! |
03:21.12 | trovao | :P |
03:21.29 | brlcad | you didn't know that tanks have wings? |
03:21.42 | brlcad | every time a bell rings, a tank gets its wings |
03:21.45 | poolio | Ah that's wonderful, bzflag just locked up |
03:22.01 | brlcad | yeah, submit a proposal to fix that stupid bug :) |
03:22.20 | poolio | Yeah, the universal fix to the "it crashed" error |
03:22.21 | trovao | poolio: now that you mentioned, -solo doesn't work on my cvs version |
03:22.22 | brlcad | try turning off lighting or updating your graphics driver |
03:22.34 | Epyon | "I'll fix BZFlag so it never locks up" -- that'd be a cool proposal :P |
03:22.37 | brlcad | trovao: yes, cvs head was recently busted |
03:22.51 | brlcad | 2.0 should be fine |
03:22.54 | poolio | yeah, rm -rf the cvs trunk, that's how you make it unbreakable. |
03:23.02 | brlcad | part of on-going development woes |
03:23.24 | trovao | poolio: SoC will happen on CVS, so its better to keep it near |
03:23.37 | brlcad | maybe, maybe not |
03:23.45 | brlcad | we should be migrated to svn by then |
03:23.53 | trovao | oh |
03:23.54 | poolio | trovao: i dont think you realized the joke :) |
03:24.12 | trovao | poolio: oops :$ |
03:25.34 | Epyon | I'd choose svn over cvs any day :) |
03:27.07 | poolio | If I wrote a proposal that was somewhat more directed at AI research and less so at bzflag, would that be ... bad? |
03:27.51 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Run for your lives. :) |
03:28.24 | Epyon | poolio, as long as it would be implemented into bzflag I think it might be considered ;] |
03:28.35 | purple_cow | sheesh, playing.cxx is like badly written C |
03:28.37 | brlcad | poolio: it should still have some practical utility |
03:28.40 | trovao | SportChick: hello, good looking |
03:28.46 | brlcad | purple_cow: crazy talk |
03:28.51 | brlcad | it's not "like" badly written C |
03:28.57 | brlcad | it IS badly written C :) |
03:29.13 | poolio | haha |
03:29.17 | purple_cow | well, it uses things like "new", so... |
03:29.25 | brlcad | that's one of like 3 files remaining that I still haven't carved up into a million other files |
03:29.38 | JeffM2501 | I feel dirty |
03:29.44 | poolio | #define new malloc |
03:29.44 | JeffM2501 | really really dirty |
03:29.54 | trovao | JeffM2501: take a bath |
03:29.58 | brlcad | ~hose JeffM2501 |
03:30.01 | ibot | ACTION hooks into a hydrant and hoses JeffM2501 down. |
03:30.03 | JeffM2501 | water won't wash off vista |
03:30.20 | brlcad | ~fishslap JeffM2501 |
03:30.22 | ibot | ACTION slaps JeffM2501 up side the head with a wet fish. |
03:30.32 | brlcad | maybe the smell of fish will help |
03:30.32 | JeffM2501 | came on the machine |
03:30.36 | JeffM2501 | I'm preping to wipe it |
03:30.55 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: it's got a neat pink gremlin clock though |
03:31.00 | poolio | zero it! |
03:31.10 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: wipe vista? |
03:31.16 | JeffM2501 | yes |
03:31.21 | L4m3r | I used vista as something to wipe _with_ |
03:31.22 | L4m3r | :P |
03:31.24 | trovao | there's soooo much time since I used windows for more than one hour... |
03:32.01 | L4m3r | windows is tolerable if you just want to play games |
03:32.10 | L4m3r | Vista kinda defeats that purpose though |
03:35.10 | purple_cow | http://osiris.chipx86.com/images/blog/20060204/vista-gremlin.png <- killer feature |
03:35.57 | PuMpErNiCkLe | o_o |
03:37.55 | poolio | Alright, good night guys, I hope that I'll have time to write up a proposal |
03:37.56 | JeffM2501 | I couldn't pass up a dual core laptop for 699 |
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03:38.11 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: link? |
03:38.22 | JeffM2501 | bestbuy |
03:38.25 | trovao | poolio: good night |
03:38.29 | JeffM2501 | just sort em by price |
03:38.31 | trovao | and good luck |
03:38.36 | JeffM2501 | it's a gateway AMD |
03:38.42 | JeffM2501 | on sale for 150 off |
03:39.06 | L4m3r | ah |
03:39.29 | JeffM2501 | http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8224771&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat103700050019&id=1166840116923 |
03:40.33 | L4m3r | a very nice deal |
03:40.57 | a_temp_dist | gateway makes OK notebooks? |
03:41.12 | L4m3r | If I didn't have my lappy already I'd go for it :P |
03:41.34 | jude | hmm...I was under the impression that Gateway mademore expensive notebooks... |
03:41.39 | trovao | If I didn't have 60% taxes plus shipping I would go for it |
03:41.44 | L4m3r | they used to... |
03:42.11 | L4m3r | none of the big guys really make high-end laptops anymore. |
03:42.19 | brlcad | JeffM2501: you recall your other ideas from last night? |
03:42.22 | L4m3r | for those you go to Sony or Toshiba or Fujitsu |
03:42.26 | JeffM2501 | no |
03:42.31 | JeffM2501 | logs? |
03:42.43 | jude | L4m3r: define "high end" |
03:42.46 | L4m3r | ...working on the app now |
03:42.48 | brlcad | yeah, i wanted to be lazy |
03:43.12 | JeffM2501 | I don't log on this machine |
03:43.16 | L4m3r | jude: generally faster, larger, and with lots of (often superfluous) features |
03:43.20 | brlcad | aiight |
03:43.24 | jude | sounds like XPS |
03:43.38 | L4m3r | ah, XPS would be an exception |
03:43.57 | L4m3r | though that's more of a "gaming laptop", almost a separate category in itself |
03:44.08 | L4m3r | like Acer's Ferrari laptops |
03:44.28 | L4m3r | or Alienware... oh, they're Dell now |
03:44.33 | JeffM2501 | wow it finaly booted! |
03:44.39 | jude | I see |
03:44.55 | L4m3r | one of the guys who does access control in the dorms has an A-ware lappy... it's monstrous |
03:45.31 | jude | one of my friends has this beastly alienware...19" screen, dual hard drives, 30-minute battery life... |
03:45.38 | jude | 4 GB ram |
03:46.00 | jude | tho the light-up alien eyes on the case are cool |
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03:47.22 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-093.ewetel.net) |
03:49.46 | L4m3r | heh |
03:49.53 | L4m3r | 30-minute battery? wow |
03:50.06 | L4m3r | and that's only 19"- they make 21" laptops now |
03:50.12 | jude | so much for mobility :p |
03:50.31 | brlcad | damn, couldn't find it |
03:50.43 | jude | heh my pavillion gets 5 hours |
03:50.53 | trovao | alright, naptime, see you next time |
03:51.07 | brlcad | cheers |
03:51.16 | jude | good night trovao |
03:51.38 | Epyon | *yawn* To sleep or not to sleep thy is the question :P |
03:51.57 | brlcad | there's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead |
03:52.03 | trovao | jude & brlcad: thanks (and thanks for reading those ever lasting long lines brlcad) |
03:52.12 | brlcad | long lines? :) |
03:52.45 | brlcad | DTRemenak: you got idea of something to add? |
03:52.55 | DTRemenak | hmmm? |
03:53.08 | brlcad | ideas page, a topic |
03:53.30 | gn00bie | 2 + 2 = 5 |
03:53.36 | gn00bie | for very large values of 2 |
03:53.38 | brlcad | added multi-tank |
03:53.40 | JeffM2501 | hmmm it even has 128 megs of video ram |
03:53.51 | JeffM2501 | I thought it would be all turbo cache |
03:54.20 | Epyon | brlcad, so true ;] |
03:54.47 | JeffM2501 | brlcad did you find my list? |
03:55.26 | brlcad | nope |
03:55.45 | brlcad | and I even tried |
03:55.55 | JeffM2501 | :( |
03:55.57 | JeffM2501 | ibot logs |
03:56.08 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
03:56.08 | brlcad | need some keyword to go on |
03:56.19 | brlcad | everything I was trying was too generic or too specific apparently |
03:56.32 | brlcad | (for searching) |
03:59.01 | JeffM2501 | dude |
03:59.08 | JeffM2501 | just search for "more idea":) |
03:59.36 | JeffM2501 | fat paste inc |
03:59.39 | JeffM2501 | brlcadJeffM2501: we really do need a couple more ideas up on the page |
03:59.39 | JeffM2501 | 01:32.17brlcadelse we're going to have like 5 engine proposals and 4 AI proposals |
03:59.39 | JeffM2501 | 01:32.20JeffM2501heh |
03:59.39 | JeffM2501 | 01:32.39JeffM2501gee. woudn't a roadmap be good right about now :) |
03:59.39 | JeffM2501 | 01:32.50JeffM2501ok, better user/group managment tools |
03:59.40 | JeffM2501 | 01:32.53brlcadnah, someone still would need to type up ideas :) |
03:59.42 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.06trovaobrlcad: looking from the outside, they seem the most 'real' |
03:59.44 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.14JeffM2501umm...... better list server sorting and stuff |
03:59.45 | brlcad | there we go |
03:59.48 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.18JeffM2501distributed list server |
03:59.50 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.28JeffM2501automatic updates |
03:59.52 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.37JeffM2501multiple screen support |
03:59.54 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.40trovaothere's some ideas there that I don't even have the slightest idea on what to do with them |
03:59.56 | JeffM2501 | 01:33.41brlcadthat's a good one -- totally revamping the "select a server" page |
03:59.58 | JeffM2501 | 01:34.10JeffM2501that's all I can think of off the top of my head |
04:00.01 | DTRemenak | urgh |
04:00.43 | JeffM2501 | yay formating the drive :) |
04:02.12 | purple_cow | what the heck |
04:02.29 | *** join/#bzflag iwcylabumf_ (n=chatzill@dyn-160-39-59-201.dyn.columbia.edu) |
04:02.50 | purple_cow | TextUtils::format("Flags not supported by this client: {1}", &args).c_str()); |
04:03.26 | purple_cow | who did that? who? |
04:03.54 | JeffM2501 | check history |
04:04.04 | JeffM2501 | then beat them with a hose |
04:04.26 | JeffM2501 | I did it? |
04:04.28 | JeffM2501 | no way |
04:04.36 | JeffM2501 | I hate the args |
04:04.42 | purple_cow | yes you did |
04:04.52 | brlcad | hehe |
04:04.54 | purple_cow | and args is an std::vector<std::string>! |
04:04.55 | JeffM2501 | where? |
04:05.06 | purple_cow | playing.cxx dumpMissingFlag |
04:05.09 | JeffM2501 | teh hell? |
04:05.13 | JeffM2501 | what? |
04:05.19 | JeffM2501 | what does that do? |
04:05.24 | brlcad | maybe he just moved it there from elsewhere or ws change |
04:05.31 | DTRemenak | probably ws changes |
04:05.33 | JeffM2501 | that is more like it |
04:05.33 | purple_cow | if you're lucky, it prints a bunch of garbage to the screen |
04:05.39 | DTRemenak | cheese whiz, iirc :) |
04:05.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah it would |
04:05.54 | JeffM2501 | I have no recolection of doing anything with droping flags |
04:06.03 | JeffM2501 | that's just stupid tho |
04:06.10 | DTRemenak | yup, "put the candle back" |
04:06.15 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
04:06.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah WS/screwups |
04:06.23 | JeffM2501 | keep going back :) |
04:07.27 | purple_cow | I'm too lazy to look further |
04:08.39 | DTRemenak | originated in remove_flag_id branch |
04:08.51 | purple_cow | oh |
04:08.54 | purple_cow | probably dbrosius then |
04:09.16 | DTRemenak | nope...scanline |
04:09.25 | DTRemenak | http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx?r1=1.183.2.4&r2=1.183.2.5&pathrev=remove_flag_id |
04:10.10 | DTRemenak | "Better flag negotiation on the client side, with a message telling you exactly which flags aren't supported" |
04:11.10 | DTRemenak | hm, looks like it started as a printError though |
04:11.29 | purple_cow | I seriously doubt scanline would do that ;-) |
04:11.59 | purple_cow | huh, I guess he did? |
04:12.02 | purple_cow | maybe it was moved |
04:12.13 | DTRemenak | commit message makes it sound original |
04:12.30 | purple_cow | hmm |
04:12.33 | purple_cow | what did printError do? |
04:12.46 | DTRemenak | I think the syntax is correct for printError |
04:12.48 | DTRemenak | just ugly |
04:12.50 | purple_cow | oh, yeah, right |
04:13.54 | purple_cow | so then who converted it to TextUtils::format without fixing? :) |
04:14.47 | DTRemenak | tupone |
04:14.49 | DTRemenak | http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx?r1=1.694&r2=1.695 |
04:15.37 | DTRemenak | did a whole swath of them at once, for the setFailedMessage change |
04:16.22 | JeffM2501 | not to be mean, but he busted a lot of stuff in that big thing, bots, etc. |
04:16.55 | DTRemenak | he's fixed his share of stuff too |
04:17.01 | JeffM2501 | that he has |
04:17.19 | JeffM2501 | I think it was just too many big changes all at once. |
04:17.40 | DTRemenak | no real qa either |
04:17.47 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
04:20.11 | brlcad | likewise |
04:21.03 | brlcad | trepan was by far an offender in that area, breaking something as part of a 20k commit |
04:21.11 | brlcad | he never did commit that last big one, did he |
04:21.14 | JeffM2501 | now to just peel off the vista sticker :) |
04:22.04 | brlcad | added a few more ideas, feel free to flame, rework, reword, or remove but they should all be things previously discussed |
04:22.56 | JeffM2501 | I can't stay up till 3 tonight tho |
04:23.01 | JeffM2501 | gotta get up early |
04:23.13 | JeffM2501 | so you'll have to get the big arguments down soon :) |
04:23.40 | brlcad | i meant internally |
04:23.47 | brlcad | :) |
04:24.09 | Epyon | It's 5:25 here ;] |
04:24.18 | JeffM2501 | heh |
04:24.21 | brlcad | i've got no strong passion for/against any of the new ones except maybe for 2-player |
04:24.31 | JeffM2501 | I just hope I'm not up too late seting this laptop up :/ |
04:24.50 | Epyon | brlcad, can you fill me on "the new ones"? |
04:25.01 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: Cleaned up some ridiculously ugly and broken code. Left the "beaucoup cheeze" comment. |
04:25.01 | Epyon | new applications? |
04:25.15 | JeffM2501 | whoot, he's on the list for this year :) |
04:25.27 | brlcad | 2-player tanks, in-game profile management, enhanced public server listing, and multiple display support enhancements |
04:26.13 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: I figured I should at least have a basic understanding of the codebase if I'm going to mentor =P |
04:26.24 | Epyon | enh public server profile sounds the most interesting. Depending what enhanced means. |
04:26.24 | brlcad | hehe |
04:26.31 | JeffM2501 | heh, true |
04:26.45 | brlcad | Epyon: you've seen the server listing in the game? |
04:27.00 | Epyon | ingame? |
04:27.02 | brlcad | yes |
04:27.19 | brlcad | it's a dump of |
04:27.22 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
04:27.24 | Epyon | Couldn't see it, cause there are no servers around xD |
04:27.45 | Epyon | Get it. |
04:27.54 | Epyon | So what would be the "enhancement"? |
04:27.55 | brlcad | dump of 245 or so servers |
04:28.11 | brlcad | you read the descriptiong? |
04:28.13 | JeffM2501 | add one "find a way to get DSL home users to stop making new servers" |
04:28.44 | Epyon | If my application would pass I hope one of the more popular servers would be willing to host "betatest" games :/ |
04:29.04 | purple_cow | " Enhanced cross-platform multiple display support" <-- excellent |
04:29.31 | Epyon | Because proper community feedback could be the line between good and bad here... |
04:30.31 | brlcad | Epyon: we have servers available for hosting testing servers |
04:30.54 | brlcad | plus there's an army of server operators that could help |
04:31.09 | brlcad | depending on what you mean by "betatest" games |
04:31.17 | Epyon | The problem would be to convince people to submit their "feelings" on the levels ;] |
04:31.23 | brlcad | levels? |
04:31.28 | Epyon | random levels ;] |
04:31.34 | DTRemenak | maps |
04:31.38 | brlcad | ooh, different topic |
04:31.53 | Epyon | sorry, bad roguelike habbit xD |
04:32.13 | brlcad | sorry, I was talking about the server listing menu selection -- not the maps themselves |
04:32.21 | Epyon | mhm |
04:32.50 | brlcad | JeffM2501: easy, by adding an accredidation process to bzauthd server registrations |
04:34.14 | brlcad | Epyon: yeah, for hosting maps.. there's servers that could do that right away |
04:34.33 | brlcad | i mean, that number is live .. there are 245 game servers running now.. on probably about 200 different server systems |
04:34.52 | JeffM2501 | and about 200 players ;) |
04:34.57 | brlcad | yep :) |
04:35.17 | brlcad | more the need for better server listing support and selection criteria |
04:35.32 | brlcad | that would make for a nice class object all of its own |
04:45.41 | jude | Epyon: are you considering creating an algorithm to create random levels? |
04:46.28 | Epyon | jude: not considering, but actually wanting to see it done ;]. Preferably by myself ;) |
04:46.42 | jude | kk |
04:47.02 | jude | I could add that to the BZW editor, if time permits... |
04:47.13 | *** join/#bzflag leif (n=leif@71-215-255-135.mpls.qwest.net) |
04:47.14 | Epyon | You'd agree that it help BZF :) |
04:47.58 | jude | That would assist in rapid level creation |
04:48.10 | jude | excuse me, "world", not "level |
04:48.21 | jude | or, rather, "map" |
04:48.23 | DTRemenak | hehe |
04:48.37 | DTRemenak | world is acceptable (.bzw after all) |
04:49.35 | DTRemenak | level is not really accurate, it's not like we have a sequence of them |
04:50.04 | jude | hmmmm...another GSoC idea: give BZFlag the ability to do campaigns |
04:50.10 | jude | single-player |
04:50.46 | DTRemenak | really ought to have some form of decent ai first |
04:51.29 | jude | well, that will improve with time |
04:51.32 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
04:51.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
04:51.58 | jude | it could be part of the GSoC idea...to improve the AI to wage campaigns and strategies |
04:57.00 | brlcad | you can propose whatever the heck you like |
04:57.07 | brlcad | we just might not like it or think it's feasible |
04:58.08 | brlcad | it's hard to talk about implementing different AI topics without a decent AI framework in place .. you could hook something in like Roger pretty easily, but that's less than optimal |
04:59.38 | jude | well, I was thinking of making the AI scriptable, for starters. |
05:00.02 | jude | the various strategies could be expressed as a finite state machine |
05:00.38 | jude | the AI bots could do some heuristics to find the best places in the map to mount an attack on the user |
05:00.47 | jude | (i.e. find bottlenecks, sniper points, etc) |
05:02.45 | brlcad | jude: making the AI readily scriptable in a useful manner beyond the current text protocol of bzrobots is a project in itself |
05:03.26 | jude | that's why it'd be fun :) |
05:03.32 | jude | even if NOT for a GSoC project |
05:06.03 | jude | just an idea, tho |
05:07.43 | brlcad | ah, well just as in idea, yeah it's great |
05:07.59 | brlcad | we need better bots, any way/shape/form we can get there |
05:08.56 | brlcad | i'm particularly fond of setting up an evolutionary system that builds up complex fsm's or GP systems |
05:09.04 | jude | that'd be cool |
05:10.57 | leif | once the mechanism is in place, there are so many ways to go |
05:11.54 | jude | one thing that'd be really cool would be to develop a tightly-coordinated AI team strategy |
05:12.08 | brlcad | even cooler, evolve it |
05:12.24 | jude | even better! |
05:12.54 | Epyon | There are a lot of cool articles related to that in the Game Programming series. :) |
05:13.02 | Epyon | Game Programming Gems* |
05:13.10 | gl2tosl2 | hmmmmm descision theory |
05:13.13 | gl2tosl2 | sp? |
05:13.28 | gl2tosl2 | decision |
05:14.03 | jude | Epyon: true, but better articles exist |
05:14.34 | jude | those are a good starting point, tho |
05:14.52 | purple_cow | not every problem can be solved through evolutionary algorithms, brlcad |
05:14.55 | purple_cow | some day, you'll understand that |
05:15.16 | gl2tosl2 | not every problem can be solved |
05:15.21 | jude | ...yet |
05:15.21 | gl2tosl2 | at all |
05:15.25 | gl2tosl2 | ever |
05:15.26 | gl2tosl2 | sorry |
05:15.55 | jude | can you give an example of an unsolvable problem? |
05:16.07 | jude | and prove that no solution will ever exist? |
05:16.08 | gl2tosl2 | I can do better than that |
05:16.13 | DTRemenak | jude: you just stated one :P |
05:16.27 | gl2tosl2 | actually, there are three proofs you should be aware of |
05:16.50 | gl2tosl2 | Godel's proof that axiomatic systems must be either incomplete or inconsistent |
05:16.57 | gl2tosl2 | and that math is not inconsistent |
05:17.13 | gl2tosl2 | Turing's proof that turing machines cannot calculate everything |
05:17.25 | gl2tosl2 | and they cannot even figure out what they can calculate |
05:17.53 | gl2tosl2 | and Hawking's proof that physics must also be either inconsistent or incomplete |
05:17.58 | brlcad | purple_cow: oh I understand it |
05:18.13 | jude | Hawking, however, believes that eventually a Grand Unified Theory will be found |
05:18.19 | brlcad | can't mean I can't have love for the things it does solve |
05:18.30 | gl2tosl2 | brlcad: fair enough |
05:18.48 | jude | the inconsistancies observed are a product of the methods of observation, in that case |
05:18.53 | gl2tosl2 | jude: he specifically doesn't believe that, or at least he didn't believe that in 2003 |
05:19.07 | jude | why would he be searching for one if one did not exist? |
05:19.33 | gl2tosl2 | well, at the talk I went to, he said that the search would yield good results, even if the unified field theory would not be found |
05:19.47 | DTRemenak | jude: perhaps he is searching for one because he does not know if one exists, but in the process of finding out, he will discover something? |
05:19.58 | gl2tosl2 | I think -- that part is a little fuzzy in my mind |
05:20.06 | DTRemenak | you don't have to know that a goal is acheivable to seek it |
05:20.08 | jude | right, but the fact that one has not been found does not mean that one does not exist |
05:20.10 | gl2tosl2 | he joked that physicsts would never be out of work |
05:20.19 | gl2tosl2 | jude: that point is correct |
05:20.28 | gl2tosl2 | but neither does it mean that one does exist |
05:20.29 | gl2tosl2 | :) |
05:20.33 | jude | true |
05:21.08 | jude | but the ambiguity will only be removed once one is found, or a proof that demonstrates that one will NEVER be found is formulated |
05:21.26 | gl2tosl2 | well, the talk I went to was hawking talking about that proof |
05:21.49 | gl2tosl2 | he thinks (or thought at the time) that that was the case |
05:22.04 | brlcad | DTRemenak: sounds like going after women |
05:22.06 | jude | well, either way, you will end up with a definite answer :) |
05:22.10 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: |
05:22.10 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: Clean up signatures some more, and pull more stuff out of the big msg type |
05:22.10 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: switch statement into their own functions. |
05:22.20 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it does have certain applications in non-science fields :) |
05:22.23 | *** join/#bzflag oslao (n=ca898961@bz.bzflag.bz) |
05:23.39 | oslao | Hi |
05:23.54 | jude | hello |
05:24.09 | oslao | Hi Jude |
05:24.11 | brlcad | hola |
05:24.36 | oslao | sorry Where is here ? |
05:24.48 | gl2tosl2 | jude: last point, some things are not provable either way..... |
05:24.54 | Epyon | clueless? :P |
05:24.58 | gl2tosl2 | sometimes you can prove that they are unprovable |
05:25.00 | DTRemenak | here, is #bzflag on irc.freenode.net |
05:25.18 | brlcad | earth |
05:25.22 | DTRemenak | welcome, please take off your coat, have a drink, and enjoy your stay. |
05:25.28 | oslao | Yeah |
05:25.30 | oslao | I c |
05:25.46 | oslao | But i want to know that |
05:25.54 | brlcad | DTRemenak: but .. but .. he's *only* wearing a coat |
05:25.56 | jude | gl2tosl2: but you have a proof, then |
05:25.58 | oslao | what name of your country ? |
05:25.59 | DTRemenak | brlcad: sometimes I think some of freenode's relays ar enot on earth :P |
05:26.10 | gl2tosl2 | jude: proof of what? |
05:26.22 | gl2tosl2 | the lag isn't that bad |
05:26.29 | jude | gl2tosl2: the proof that no proof exists. |
05:26.30 | brlcad | oslao: que? we're from many countries |
05:26.48 | oslao | OH.. |
05:26.50 | oslao | I see |
05:26.54 | jude | the "no solution" proof |
05:27.03 | oslao | I'm from Lao PDR |
05:27.07 | gl2tosl2 | oh, that sometimes there is no solution? |
05:27.09 | oslao | Who know? |
05:27.54 | jude | consider the equation 0 = 3x^2 + 1. Can you prove that there are is a real value for x that satisfies it? No, but you CAN prove that there is NOT a real x. |
05:28.08 | SportChick | oslao: where in Laos? |
05:28.10 | gl2tosl2 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing's_proof |
05:28.20 | brlcad | oslao: next to korea iirc, welcome |
05:28.23 | gl2tosl2 | that gives a reasonable outline of turing's proof |
05:28.38 | brlcad | commie! |
05:28.44 | SportChick | brlcad: nope, it's between China, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia |
05:28.45 | DTRemenak | brlcad: heh, little country called china between them |
05:28.56 | gl2tosl2 | brlcad: please, the PC term is freedom-hater |
05:29.14 | oslao | <SportChick> brlcad: nope, it's between China, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia <<< Right |
05:29.25 | gn00bie | Laos |
05:29.25 | SportChick | oslao: where in Laos are you frome? |
05:29.38 | SportChick | oslao: I've been there :) |
05:29.42 | oslao | Vientaine |
05:29.45 | SportChick | ahhh |
05:29.51 | brlcad | i meant "next to" in a "it's over there around that piece of land sticking off asia" |
05:29.56 | oslao | Really ? |
05:30.01 | SportChick | we only spent a few days in Vientaine |
05:30.01 | Epyon | hey, someone is from "farther away" than I am :D |
05:30.03 | SportChick | yes |
05:30.14 | purple_cow | "in asia". that really narrows it down |
05:30.17 | oslao | Oh.. |
05:30.24 | oslao | Cool |
05:30.27 | SportChick | oslao: http://www.kirkanddonna.com/rtw/Laos.htm |
05:30.37 | oslao | SportChick |
05:31.13 | brlcad | ahh, actually i think i meant next to vietnam anyways, heh |
05:31.31 | DTRemenak | brlcad: "over there around" like california is "over there around ontario"? :) |
05:31.43 | brlcad | yep |
05:31.48 | brlcad | that's right up the street |
05:32.59 | DTRemenak | Epyon: you're welcome to attend one of our bzflag get-togethers! :) |
05:33.13 | Epyon | In the US? :P |
05:33.17 | DTRemenak | yup |
05:33.28 | DTRemenak | next one is probably in san diego, california |
05:33.32 | Epyon | No problem if you pay for the travel expenses xD |
05:33.35 | DTRemenak | hehe |
05:33.36 | brlcad | Epyon: usually around the time of siggraph ;) |
05:34.10 | brlcad | s/usually/so far that have involved me - always/ |
05:34.24 | brlcad | yay, 5pm |
05:34.27 | jude | good night DTRemenak |
05:34.37 | DTRemenak | g'night! :) |
05:34.38 | brlcad | have fun at the center |
05:34.39 | Epyon | Although if I'd get applied to the program I could try on my PHD studies forcing my Uni to pay for it as "conference" expenses :P |
05:34.45 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I'm sure I will |
05:34.51 | brlcad | steal some good swag |
05:34.54 | DTRemenak | hehe |
05:35.34 | Laozaa | www.laozaa.com |
05:36.15 | SportChick | Laozaa: we visited Huang Xai, Luang Nam Tha (& several nearby villages), Muang Sing, Oudomxai, Nong Khiaw, Luang Prabang, Vang Vieng and Vientiene |
05:36.19 | SportChick | oops |
05:38.07 | *** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
05:40.23 | JeffM2501 | man this thing is a lot faster with XP :) |
05:41.30 | brlcad | ooh, now there's an idea.. i could go skiing this weekend |
05:41.38 | jude | that's strange, as XP isn't multi-threaded (AFAIK) :) |
05:48.37 | JeffM2501 | XP runs more then one process |
05:48.48 | JeffM2501 | so it'll use more then one core at a time |
05:49.21 | JeffM2501 | but mostly this is just cus it's less of a pig then vista :) |
05:49.47 | jude | true, but processes and threads are different constructs in Windows |
05:50.01 | jude | as opposed to Linux, where they're really the same structure |
05:50.11 | jude | threads just share the same address space and resources |
05:50.14 | jude | (AFAIK) |
05:50.15 | JeffM2501 | so :) |
05:50.35 | blast007 | it's still faster ;) |
05:51.04 | blast007 | I can run a VMWare linux install while playing FEAR |
05:51.17 | JeffM2501 | it is not correct to compare them, as yes, they are diferent |
05:51.59 | jude | architecturally, however, Linux's thread implementation is more elegant |
05:52.23 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
05:53.30 | jude | seriously: why do the MS developers want to have more than one type of job structure? It's wasteful |
05:54.16 | JeffM2501 | why does linux want to have more then one type of window manager? |
05:54.18 | JeffM2501 | it's wastefull |
05:54.24 | blast007 | heh |
05:54.32 | JeffM2501 | it is what it is |
05:54.37 | jude | linux is a kernel; I'm talking about MS's NT kernel, not the entire OS |
05:54.45 | JeffM2501 | geeking on it wont' change it |
05:54.47 | JeffM2501 | I know |
05:54.51 | JeffM2501 | I was giving you an example |
05:54.59 | jude | you're right, it is wasteful |
05:55.00 | JeffM2501 | "cus that's the way they do it" |
05:55.04 | JeffM2501 | find them and ask them |
05:55.22 | JeffM2501 | yay, wireless works :) |
05:56.08 | jude | but, unlike threading implementation, you can choose your window manager |
05:56.08 | JeffM2501 | well at least a bin made on windows works on damn near most windows systems, unlike nix ones |
05:56.08 | JeffM2501 | unless you build it hella static |
05:56.38 | JeffM2501 | whee 31 out of 85 updates :) |
05:57.08 | jude | lol |
05:57.10 | purple_cow | being an ISV on linux sucks |
05:57.37 | blast007 | JeffM2501: Windows updates are really fun on the old K6-2's at work :/ |
05:57.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah I can imagine |
05:57.51 | JeffM2501 | geting the hardware found for this was a pain |
05:57.54 | jude | purple_cow: it sucks if you want to get rich on selling software |
05:57.55 | blast007 | takes like an hour just to find which ones it has to install |
05:57.57 | JeffM2501 | made me feel like I was installing linux |
05:58.04 | blast007 | heh |
05:58.18 | JeffM2501 | since it was "made for vista" gateway only lists the vista drivers |
05:58.29 | JeffM2501 | so lots of huntin around for the right hardware ones |
05:58.37 | purple_cow | jude: yeah, but who doesn't? |
05:58.52 | JeffM2501 | lots of, looking at what other models the vista drivers and geting there XP ones |
05:59.02 | JeffM2501 | jude people's gotta eat |
05:59.07 | JeffM2501 | google won't pay the world ;) |
05:59.21 | jude | what about charging for support and feature development? |
05:59.36 | JeffM2501 | that's only viable in some industries |
05:59.36 | jude | that's what Linux companies do |
05:59.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah, and I don't see them taking over the world :) |
06:00.04 | JeffM2501 | there is never "one" way to do all things |
06:00.07 | jude | Linux adoption is like a glacier: slow, but very, very difficult to stop |
06:00.21 | jude | true |
06:00.23 | JeffM2501 | spoken like a true zeallot :) |
06:00.27 | Epyon | Yeah ;] |
06:00.36 | gl2tosl2 | but inconsequential on your current planning horizon? |
06:00.44 | jude | actually, i was looking at adoption estimates. I'm not a zealot |
06:00.45 | JeffM2501 | everything has it's good and bad points |
06:01.01 | JeffM2501 | your not |
06:01.16 | gl2tosl2 | rats |
06:01.18 | Epyon | Well, I have no choice :/ |
06:01.22 | SportChick | Epyon: bzflag is multiplatform - so users of all varieties |
06:01.39 | JeffM2501 | windows is our most common client OS |
06:01.41 | JeffM2501 | over 1/2 |
06:01.58 | JeffM2501 | jude but does your mom use linux too? |
06:02.03 | jude | no |
06:02.10 | jude | I don't really care, tho |
06:02.15 | JeffM2501 | then there ya go :) |
06:02.18 | jude | Linux does what I need it to do |
06:02.31 | blast007 | jude: same with Windows for me |
06:02.33 | SportChick | and Palm OS :) |
06:02.34 | blast007 | a.k.a. games |
06:02.37 | Epyon | My father uses linux though ;] |
06:02.41 | JeffM2501 | when my dad can install a desktop linux, then the estimators can toubt "adoption" :) |
06:03.00 | JeffM2501 | why? |
06:03.03 | jude | go to www.clieuk.co.uk/nelson.html |
06:03.05 | SportChick | JeffM2501, brlcad: if so, rank them #1 ;) |
06:03.13 | JeffM2501 | double why? |
06:03.19 | blast007 | SportChick: it would be BZAscii |
06:03.20 | JeffM2501 | so you can have a slow game |
06:03.28 | SportChick | JeffM2501: ;) you know I'm teasing ;) |
06:03.32 | SportChick | blast007: hehe |
06:03.33 | jude | you'll see TankWar there |
06:03.41 | Epyon | How about BZFlagRL? I can do that as an extra xD |
06:03.42 | jude | similar concept |
06:03.54 | JeffM2501 | rl? |
06:03.59 | blast007 | real life |
06:03.59 | Epyon | RogueLike :P |
06:04.04 | blast007 | oh |
06:04.08 | JeffM2501 | what does that mean? |
06:04.16 | JeffM2501 | you keep saying that, but what the heck is it? |
06:04.25 | blast007 | Epyon: guess I was thinking of that OTHER "rl" :) |
06:04.30 | Epyon | Doom has one, Castlevania has one, Aliens has one, BZFlag could gave one :P |
06:04.48 | Epyon | Roguelike's are game's like Rogue. Ever played it? |
06:04.54 | JeffM2501 | no |
06:05.05 | Epyon | Rogue, NetHack, ADOM, Angband... |
06:05.16 | Epyon | ... DoomRL? |
06:05.20 | blast007 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_(computer_game) |
06:05.20 | JeffM2501 | no |
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06:05.33 | Epyon | *sigh* too bad :( |
06:05.44 | JeffM2501 | text |
06:05.48 | JeffM2501 | meh, no thanks |
06:05.56 | JeffM2501 | gee, would have NEVER guessed ;) |
06:06.07 | blast007 | I haven't played a game like that in a while |
06:06.11 | Epyon | JeffM2501, content over presentation, randomness over preprepared content ;] |
06:06.34 | blast007 | used to play games of that graphical quality on my ... 8086 |
06:06.40 | JeffM2501 | I can get that in a game that dosn't look like excell puked into a dos prompt :) |
06:06.42 | Epyon | Anyway, ASCII is not a requirement. |
06:06.59 | Epyon | Many games have now graphical frontends. |
06:07.09 | Epyon | And... Diablo *IS* a roguelike ;] |
06:07.12 | JeffM2501 | dungeon seige |
06:07.31 | JeffM2501 | and bzflag is battlezone.. SURE. |
06:08.33 | Epyon | Wether Blizzard admits it or not, they ripped all that's good from Angband, added Graphics/Music/Sound/Animations and ... made success :P |
06:08.33 | JeffM2501 | welcome to the real world |
06:08.36 | Epyon | JeffM2501, sorry for talking about roguelikes all the time, but I'm a zealot, so please forgive me :) |
06:08.37 | JeffM2501 | everyone does that |
06:08.47 | JeffM2501 | in all industries |
06:08.56 | JeffM2501 | bzflag isn't any more origonal then battlezone |
06:09.17 | Epyon | It would be with random levels *hint, hint* ^_^ |
06:09.28 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull |
06:09.44 | Epyon | Depends on what you call "original" |
06:09.49 | JeffM2501 | at it's core they are all FPS games |
06:09.58 | JeffM2501 | move, shoot, kill |
06:10.21 | Epyon | Well, on the same paradigm, you can say that roguelikes, cRPGs and MMORPGs are all the same. |
06:10.29 | JeffM2501 | sure |
06:10.47 | JeffM2501 | and rogue probalby pulled stuff form the text games |
06:10.47 | Epyon | And that Frontier is the same as all the shitty space trader simulators created now. |
06:10.50 | JeffM2501 | in concept |
06:10.58 | JeffM2501 | please wathc your language here |
06:11.24 | Epyon | So basicaly we come to the conclusion that all the games are basicaly the same :) |
06:11.25 | JeffM2501 | it all goes back to spacewar and zork man |
06:11.27 | Epyon | JeffM2501, sorry. |
06:11.29 | JeffM2501 | at some level they are |
06:11.33 | JeffM2501 | diversions |
06:11.40 | JeffM2501 | and the follow similar psycological rules |
06:11.45 | JeffM2501 | risk, reward, etc.. |
06:11.51 | JeffM2501 | that's what the game designer understands |
06:12.06 | JeffM2501 | they all strive to get the same emotion out of the players |
06:12.07 | JeffM2501 | fun |
06:12.18 | Epyon | Well if that's your point then I'll say Frontier IS different from all the ***** space trader gamse. |
06:12.20 | Epyon | games* |
06:12.31 | JeffM2501 | depends on what you personaly find fun |
06:12.34 | JeffM2501 | that's the kicker |
06:13.04 | Epyon | Because I spent days playing Frontier doing stupid things like trying to land on a Gas Giant. |
06:13.29 | Epyon | I played with the game like with a toy, and not like I would want to "challenge" it. |
06:14.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah for you, it's trying to get back to that fun you remember |
06:14.29 | Epyon | And that was probably the most... emotional... feeling I had with any game. |
06:14.34 | purple_cow | jeff myers, psychoanalyst |
06:14.42 | Epyon | :] |
06:15.33 | Epyon | Yet I know that it's not what the average player seeks in games. |
06:15.58 | JeffM2501 | I read books on game design :) |
06:16.18 | Epyon | So do I :P |
06:16.27 | JeffM2501 | yay, the last remnants of vista are gone :) |
06:16.32 | Epyon | xD |
06:16.54 | jude | me too |
06:17.21 | JeffM2501 | sex lies and videogames was the best one on the psycology of it all |
06:19.52 | JeffM2501 | I put a compiler on this thing and acrobat and I'm good to go :) |
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06:48.57 | jude | well, bedtime for me. good night everyone! |
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07:18.08 | jh` | any of the developers alive? |
07:23.47 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: Faces seen from outside |
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08:16.13 | luqui | I wonder why bzflag's performance on my craptop is so bad |
08:16.19 | luqui | armagetronad runs fine |
08:16.44 | luqui | are the two doing very different things? |
08:17.16 | L4m3r | armagetron allows you to strip graphical requirements much lower than bzflag |
08:17.29 | luqui | yes, but I have its settings fairly high |
08:18.16 | L4m3r | still not very many polygons, though |
08:18.25 | luqui | and armagetron is running at 40fps, whereas bzflag on minimum settings is running at, um, 1/2 |
08:18.35 | luqui | perhaps it is the polygon count... |
08:18.39 | L4m3r | what video card do you have? |
08:19.09 | L4m3r | (and what OS are you using?) |
08:19.27 | luqui | Radeon Xpress 200m (ha! yes,I'm very surprised armagetron runs as well as it does) |
08:19.32 | luqui | on gentoo |
08:20.33 | purple_cow | luqui: are you who I think you are? |
08:20.49 | luqui | :-) |
08:20.53 | purple_cow | hey dude |
08:21.00 | luqui | hey. been a while. |
08:21.24 | purple_cow | how's life treating you? |
08:21.48 | luqui | fairly well. I took a hiatus from school and am working at netdevil now |
08:22.03 | luqui | future is hazy |
08:22.08 | luqui | :-p |
08:22.23 | luqui | you're still hacking bzflag? |
08:22.31 | purple_cow | not really |
08:22.46 | purple_cow | I just stay in this channel and complain |
08:22.56 | L4m3r | speaking of which, my GSoC app is in |
08:23.08 | L4m3r | three days before the deadline, even. who knew? |
08:23.25 | luqui | L4m3r, what'd you work on? |
08:23.39 | L4m3r | nothing yet ;) |
08:24.04 | luqui | I was thinking about writing an highly (not massively, though) multiplayer action rts, and was considering bzflag as my engine |
08:24.13 | L4m3r | hahahahaha NO |
08:24.21 | luqui | ? |
08:24.29 | L4m3r | bzflag uses a stone-age engine |
08:24.50 | luqui | yeah. I was hoping that it had matured in the, what, two years since I'd played it |
08:24.58 | L4m3r | nope |
08:25.00 | luqui | even at 1/2 frame per second, I could see that it hadn't much |
08:25.23 | L4m3r | 2.0 was a big leap forward in many respects but not a whole lot since then, relatively |
08:25.31 | purple_cow | well, it has |
08:25.41 | L4m3r | and that was, just over two years ago iirc :P |
08:25.45 | purple_cow | you can do all sorts of custom models in the maps, and stuff |
08:25.58 | purple_cow | but that's hard, so noone makes those sorts of maps |
08:26.12 | luqui | KISS etc. |
08:26.18 | L4m3r | those that do tend to overdo it (and I am one of those that do) |
08:26.41 | L4m3r | though I try my best to keep it gameplay-oriented |
08:26.50 | luqui | that's good |
08:27.06 | luqui | netdevil has me profoundly depressed, watching all the money go into meaningless prettiness |
08:27.10 | L4m3r | and my ridiculous handcoded mesh map got me compliments from the master mapper himself, Louman ;) |
08:27.48 | L4m3r | but the engine has not changed, and it won't change either |
08:28.09 | luqui | too bad |
08:28.23 | L4m3r | most of the development team seems to be leaning towards using an existing engine as a preferrable option to reinventing the wheel for the nth time |
08:28.45 | L4m3r | I forget which ones they are considering... but if you want an egine, use those :P |
08:28.59 | luqui | well, more like I want to use a game |
08:29.02 | Manu | L4m3r: welcome to the GSoC ;) |
08:29.02 | luqui | and add some stuff to it |
08:29.09 | L4m3r | thank you Manu :) |
08:30.16 | L4m3r | hope my proposal isn't too lofty |
08:30.27 | Manu | no :) |
08:30.29 | L4m3r | or rather, I hope one or two others want to do something similar |
08:30.59 | luqui | so, to follow up my obviously-flawed "what'd you do" question: what'r'u going to do? |
08:31.20 | L4m3r | most likely, work on communication enhancements for the game |
08:31.49 | L4m3r | lobby, inter-server chat, IRC or jabber integration, yadda yadda yadda |
08:33.15 | L4m3r | I'd really like to become one of the regular devs eventually, and I think GSoC probably isn't a bad place to start |
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08:46.26 | purple_cow | L4m3r: what's your name again? I think the only time I met you, you introduced yourself as "L4m3r" :P |
08:54.35 | L4m3r | Chris |
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14:16.36 | elg | what other AI frameworks are there besides robocode? which are the most important to consider interacting with? |
14:28.14 | brlcad | elg: there are several .. robocode is by far one of the most popular, but there are other really good ones |
14:28.58 | brlcad | the swarm environment is another prime popular "system", but it'd be hard to integrate with them I think |
14:30.42 | brlcad | elg: http://www.gameai.com/exaigames.html has a listing of some others |
14:30.59 | brlcad | doesn't seem mature, but there's also http://robots.student.utwente.nl/ |
14:31.32 | brlcad | more links, http://www.google.com/search?q=robot+AI+API |
14:38.44 | elg | thanks |
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15:35.06 | azaghal | So, any developers on the channel? :) |
15:37.26 | LongDon | yes, but i am none |
15:37.50 | azaghal | Heh |
15:37.50 | LongDon | ;) |
15:39.15 | azaghal | I need one to answer some SoC-related questions ;) |
15:40.09 | quantumdot | azaghal: you need to answer? or need respnse? |
15:40.29 | quantumdot | response* |
15:40.29 | azaghal | I need response |
15:40.36 | quantumdot | manu ping |
15:40.55 | quantumdot | then ping JeffM2501 |
15:41.09 | ts | and don't forget brlcad ;) |
15:41.09 | azaghal | Well, I don't want to harass people. |
15:42.03 | eTangenT | azaghal: but harrassing people is the fun of it all! |
15:42.05 | eTangenT | :D |
15:42.09 | quantumdot | yes, do NOT forget brlcad :) |
15:42.11 | ts | What's wrong with asking the mentors questions that aren't answered on the wiki? |
15:42.26 | ts | I do not see a problem there |
15:42.36 | azaghal | Well, they will eventually see my question on irc (I think) |
15:42.53 | menotume | they will now :) |
15:43.01 | azaghal | They might be doing something important |
15:43.08 | ts | yep, the data is logged |
15:43.15 | quantumdot | also, do not forget pinging menotume :) |
15:43.18 | menotume | and, burlycade's name was mentioned :P |
15:43.19 | ts | they'll read their logs, so just ask |
15:43.24 | quantumdot | most of all, ping menotume |
15:43.28 | Manu | quantumdot: pong |
15:43.28 | menotume | lol |
15:43.35 | quantumdot | here it is |
15:43.44 | azaghal | Heh |
15:43.50 | ts | Manu: A student with questions :) |
15:43.58 | quantumdot | azaghal needs some responses to SoC |
15:44.21 | menotume | don't make the poor guy/gal nervous |
15:44.25 | ts | azaghal: Ask :) |
15:44.29 | azaghal | Ok |
15:44.31 | quantumdot | ask!!! |
15:44.31 | menotume | now that the entire channel is watching |
15:44.35 | Manu | he can ask and wait for a response ;) |
15:44.48 | azaghal | I'm interested about the chat idea that you want implemented |
15:44.50 | quantumdot | :-D |
15:45.55 | quantumdot | I want menotume to mentor me :-* |
15:46.34 | menotume | i am 'mental', not 'mentor' |
15:46.42 | quantumdot | pffft |
15:46.42 | menotume | azaghal: ok |
15:46.44 | ts | heh |
15:46.45 | azaghal | Basically, are there any more specifications that you can provide? Such as from where it should be accessible? Should it be a widget? |
15:47.05 | menotume | ahhh, it would integrated into the game client |
15:47.22 | menotume | not a 'widget' per say |
15:47.27 | azaghal | Of course, but where exactly? Any part of the client? |
15:47.30 | menotume | currently, we use ogl |
15:47.47 | menotume | good question, and i don't know the answer |
15:48.08 | menotume | have you played bzflag ? |
15:48.17 | azaghal | Well, only a little :) |
15:48.20 | menotume | ok |
15:48.28 | Manu | azaghal: you can try to play bzflag and see how we chat actually |
15:48.40 | menotume | my *guess* is that it's up to you to 'propse' an interface |
15:48.51 | azaghal | Ok |
15:48.51 | Manu | if you thinkg can do something better, just submit your idea |
15:48.57 | menotume | right |
15:49.23 | menotume | the current interface is rather simple |
15:49.46 | azaghal | Just to make sure: we are talking about "Cross server communications system"? |
15:49.56 | menotume | yes |
15:50.17 | azaghal | Will the chat server be provided by the game server? |
15:50.40 | azaghal | Or should there be a possibility of using some external server (some of the jabber ones, for example)? |
15:50.45 | Manu | azaghal: I guess this what you must decide ;) |
15:50.49 | menotume | :)\ |
15:50.49 | azaghal | Heh |
15:50.51 | Manu | this is* |
15:51.13 | azaghal | Ok, I'll add backdoor support as well ;) |
15:51.19 | menotume | weeeee |
15:51.29 | menotume | how about a nice game of chess ? |
15:51.55 | ts | azaghal: Jabber and IRC is ok, according to the wiki page |
15:52.08 | menotume | as an example, yes :) |
15:52.26 | azaghal | Ok. |
15:52.42 | menotume | azaghal: i think the idea is for YOU to prose what YOU think is a good solution. |
15:52.47 | menotume | 'propse' |
15:52.50 | menotume | egads |
15:53.12 | menotume | propose. keeping in mind what your are familiar / comfortable with |
15:53.22 | azaghal | I understand that, but I still might need some information. |
15:53.24 | azaghal | Thanks for the help ;) |
15:53.46 | menotume | yes, the project description is a it vauge |
15:53.56 | menotume | and, meno can't type |
15:54.17 | ts | menotume: Well, I often can't type, either. ;) |
15:54.36 | menotume | perhpas you could become more familiar with how the chatting works now, get in there and play the game, and think about how it could be better |
15:55.19 | menotume | ok, well, afk time for me, good luck azaghal |
15:55.24 | azaghal | Thanks |
15:55.26 | azaghal | Just one more |
15:55.29 | menotume | ok |
15:55.37 | azaghal | Has anyone applied for the idea already? |
15:55.43 | menotume | i don't know |
15:55.50 | azaghal | Ok |
15:56.08 | Raziel | euh, hi xD |
15:57.16 | menotume | Raziel the lurker :P |
15:57.31 | Raziel | ^^u |
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16:04.54 | blast007 | azaghal: I think one that that was discussed was a lobby where players could talk before entering a game |
16:04.57 | blast007 | crud |
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16:14.47 | Manu | blast007: he is out ;) |
16:21.06 | blast007 | noticed ;) |
16:22.14 | Manu | blast007: I know. I'm only remarking it ;) |
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17:19.54 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/plugins/logDetail/logDetail.cpp: Add filtered messages |
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17:26.54 | delusional_ | speed cheat on hepcat, cpt jake |
17:29.31 | Thumper_ | more like excessive jitter |
17:29.38 | Thumper_ | 340ms +/- 345ms |
17:30.01 | ruskie | :) |
17:30.50 | Thumper_ | JeffM2501: you around? |
17:34.00 | Thumper_ | I want to rename bz_eMessagFilteredEvent to bz_eMessageFilteredEvent - any objections? |
17:38.25 | Thumper_ | I don't think anyone uses this before today and it's all in one commit so it's easy to undo... so here goes |
17:40.17 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Typo: Change plugin event bz_eMessagFilteredEvent to bz_eMessageFilteredEvent |
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17:54.16 | Arsage | looks like they updated SoC applications through the 26th? |
17:54.20 | Arsage | (code.google.com/soc) |
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17:57.46 | Torghul | yes they did |
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18:26.57 | [darek] | hi Tupone :) |
18:27.05 | Tupone | hi darek |
18:27.38 | Tupone | how is going? |
18:27.53 | Tupone | have you seen my pyramids? |
18:28.02 | Tupone | Have to fix texturing |
18:29.15 | [darek] | no.. I didn't saw, updating... |
18:29.15 | eTangenT | Tupone: so far the CS screens look nice |
18:29.17 | eTangenT | good work |
18:30.11 | Tupone | thanks eTangenT, I better prefer you see on your screen, rather than from mine |
18:30.22 | Tupone | :) |
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18:40.47 | [darek] | Tupone: hmm first I need to find a map with pyramids ;) |
18:42.55 | ndim | [darek]: catay's fancy 1vs1 server? |
18:43.09 | Tupone | the random map that you get if you start a local server is with pyr |
18:45.35 | [darek] | ok |
18:46.38 | [darek] | Tupone: I see, the blue one ? |
18:46.45 | Tupone | yep |
18:46.51 | [darek] | it's very high |
18:46.52 | Tupone | are they pyramids? |
18:47.47 | [darek] | I think so... |
18:48.22 | Tupone | ok. I have to fix the texture. Have you got commit emails? |
18:49.36 | [darek] | I have no emails |
18:49.46 | Tupone | never get ? |
18:50.37 | Tupone | you should register to some mailing list on SF |
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18:55.24 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03darekdawidowski 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/data/world: disabled shadow casting for terrain and mountains. |
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19:23.37 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: ws |
19:25.00 | TimRiker | woot! ws! |
19:26.54 | tupone_laptop | http://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client |
19:27.53 | Thumper_ | heh |
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19:28.13 | Agahnim | hello |
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19:28.27 | Agahnim | i need help, i cant compile bzflag |
19:28.28 | ts | tupone_laptop: Is that viper`? |
19:28.36 | tupone_laptop | yep |
19:28.40 | ts | gah, darn ` |
19:29.08 | Agahnim | hm |
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19:30.06 | Agahnim | help |
19:31.04 | Agahnim | g++: /usr/lib/libcurl.so: No such file or directory |
19:31.16 | Agahnim | what i make wrong? |
19:31.42 | tupone_laptop | you have to install libcurl |
19:32.38 | Agahnim | i have |
19:32.42 | Agahnim | libcurl3 |
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19:33.05 | Agahnim | libcurl3 is already the newest version. |
19:33.19 | Agahnim | say my debian :D |
19:33.32 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
19:34.58 | Agahnim | k i test it |
19:35.32 | Agahnim | yeah it workd |
19:35.34 | Agahnim | s |
19:35.35 | Agahnim | :D |
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19:38.56 | KTL | how come the compiler complains about the missing binary while he even did not had the headers yet |
19:39.23 | Agahnim | thx a lotz |
19:39.26 | Agahnim | it works |
19:39.28 | Agahnim | yeaaaaaahhh |
19:39.33 | Agahnim | :D |
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20:11.04 | Agahnim | how can i change the map on server? |
20:11.08 | Agahnim | running* |
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20:13.19 | a_temp_dist | Agahnim, you have to restart a server to change a map |
20:13.27 | Agahnim | thats bad :/ |
20:13.41 | Agahnim | why we cant change map ingame? |
20:13.45 | Agahnim | like /changemap |
20:13.47 | Agahnim | :D |
20:14.15 | a_temp_dist | we have a /mapchange plugin - but it restarts a server on the fly |
20:14.15 | a_temp_dist | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9903 |
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20:45.59 | tupone_laptop | [darek], how is going your understanding of bzflag source code? |
20:49.48 | [darek] | tupone_laptop: slowly ;) |
20:50.19 | [darek] | but in general it's clear |
20:50.26 | tupone_laptop | I'm currently fighting with doing pyramids. Have to make submesh |
20:50.56 | tupone_laptop | if you want to help on doing that. My head is crashing |
20:51.00 | tupone_laptop | :) |
20:51.14 | [darek] | but what exactly is the problem ? |
20:51.56 | JeffM2501 | pyramids have one material |
20:51.59 | JeffM2501 | why a submesh? |
20:52.06 | tupone_laptop | well, no real problem. Have to put the texture on |
20:52.21 | tupone_laptop | well, maybe only more vertex |
20:52.24 | JeffM2501 | did you see my docs on of the base objects are UVed |
20:52.41 | JeffM2501 | it'll have 4 faces with 3 vers, and 1 with 4 |
20:52.57 | JeffM2501 | so 18 verts. |
20:53.18 | [darek] | tupone_laptop: yes you need to use exclusive vertices for face not submesh in this case |
20:53.21 | tupone_laptop | uv for the top can be shared I guess so only one top. Is that ok? |
20:53.32 | JeffM2501 | NONE of the UVs can be shared |
20:53.39 | JeffM2501 | split them all |
20:53.48 | JeffM2501 | since they will have difrent normals |
20:53.53 | tupone_laptop | ahh |
20:53.54 | tupone_laptop | ok |
20:54.18 | JeffM2501 | sharing only works for verts on a smooth surface |
20:54.23 | tupone_laptop | understand |
20:54.26 | JeffM2501 | as they will share pos, UV, and normal |
20:54.28 | tupone_laptop | like for tank |
20:54.34 | JeffM2501 | as soon as you got a corner, you split |
20:54.46 | JeffM2501 | some of tank verts are sared, some are split |
20:54.57 | JeffM2501 | depends if you want the corner soft or hard |
20:55.07 | tupone_laptop | yep |
20:55.08 | JeffM2501 | organics usualy share |
20:55.55 | [darek] | btw current tanks in CS branch sharing vertices |
20:56.04 | [darek] | it' I guess it's temporary |
20:56.05 | JeffM2501 | that isn't correct |
20:56.21 | [darek] | because you gave me wavefront obj, and it uglu imported to blender |
20:56.26 | JeffM2501 | I just imported the obj, and expected blender to dump it correclty, looking at vertex normals. |
20:56.27 | [darek] | yes I know |
20:56.41 | [darek] | but importer made hundreds unnecessary verts |
20:56.43 | JeffM2501 | the exporter won't look at the normals to see if it should be split? |
20:56.49 | JeffM2501 | eww |
20:57.23 | [darek] | it's temporary also I guess you have better modes (with visible wheels) |
20:57.30 | [darek] | models* |
20:57.39 | JeffM2501 | not as a fhile |
20:57.40 | JeffM2501 | file |
20:57.49 | JeffM2501 | our tanks are generated in code |
20:57.57 | [darek] | ah |
20:58.11 | JeffM2501 | I made the model by making an app that saved the GL vert calls, and wrote it out as a model |
20:58.22 | [darek] | I see |
20:58.24 | JeffM2501 | just to have it for artwork |
20:58.34 | JeffM2501 | that was before the treads and stuf where added. |
20:58.53 | [darek] | maybe for CS branch better use 'real' model ? |
20:59.03 | JeffM2501 | if someone made one, sure |
20:59.26 | [darek] | ok |
20:59.40 | [darek] | i'll try to find some time and make some changes |
20:59.40 | JeffM2501 | I personaly dislike the current model |
21:00.20 | [darek] | do you have any sketches with ideas how it should look ? |
21:00.39 | JeffM2501 | the current is based on the M1A1, so similar to that I guess. |
21:00.52 | JeffM2501 | the on on the wiki would be nice |
21:01.23 | JeffM2501 | I had done these variatins a while ago |
21:01.25 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/tanksite/ |
21:01.27 | JeffM2501 | never UVed it |
21:01.42 | JeffM2501 | hate the 1/2 covererd treads |
21:02.07 | [darek] | looks nic4 |
21:02.10 | [darek] | nice |
21:03.10 | [darek] | how it's made ? also in ogl ? |
21:04.09 | JeffM2501 | oh god no :) |
21:04.14 | JeffM2501 | that's done in lightwave :) |
21:05.04 | [darek] | :) |
21:05.26 | JeffM2501 | the current tank done in code is not like that due to our design choice |
21:05.47 | [darek] | when I finish my current tasks to end of month - I can help with tank model too |
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21:38.34 | tupone_laptop | 16 vertex |
21:38.48 | tupone_laptop | 4 x 3 + 4 |
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21:43.22 | JeffM2501 | me dumb at math :) |
21:43.30 | tupone_laptop | :) |
21:43.38 | tupone_laptop | just kidding |
21:44.13 | tupone_laptop | I did and then I saw 0-15 . Why not 0.17 ? :) |
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21:45.01 | JeffM2501 | intalling stuff on new laptop still :( |
21:45.13 | tupone_laptop | what kind of stuff? |
21:45.24 | tupone_laptop | irrlicht? |
21:45.40 | JeffM2501 | VC, photoshop |
21:45.49 | JeffM2501 | cvs, svn |
21:45.54 | JeffM2501 | geting the code I need |
21:46.09 | JeffM2501 | so yeah CS, irr, bz, fmod, etc.. |
21:46.16 | purple_cow | hah, fmod |
21:46.52 | JeffM2501 | blender just went |
21:46.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah yeah, shut yer gob ;) |
21:46.53 | KTL | uw nice tanks |
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21:51.37 | KTL | me too, /me loves jordan allready :P |
21:58.32 | tupone_laptop | http://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client |
21:58.32 | tupone_laptop | Pyramids are ok now |
21:58.33 | [darek] | nice :) |
21:59.11 | JeffM2501 | did you use the right UVs? |
21:59.15 | tupone_laptop | well, they looked strange at beginning, and didn't realize what was. Smooth vertex. Now the yare sharp |
21:59.16 | tupone_laptop | yep |
21:59.21 | tupone_laptop | from the old code |
21:59.21 | JeffM2501 | cool |
21:59.23 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
21:59.24 | tupone_laptop | hope is good |
21:59.29 | JeffM2501 | I made a doc from the old code if you want it |
21:59.36 | JeffM2501 | looks good |
21:59.43 | tupone_laptop | well, isn't in the wiki? |
21:59.47 | JeffM2501 | no |
21:59.49 | JeffM2501 | CVS |
21:59.56 | JeffM2501 | it's part of the tools/bzedit |
22:00.36 | tupone_laptop | new branch? |
22:00.48 | JeffM2501 | tools it's it's own module |
22:00.54 | tupone_laptop | ahh |
22:00.56 | JeffM2501 | not tied to the bzflag module at all |
22:01.14 | tupone_laptop | why not putting in the wiki? |
22:01.36 | tupone_laptop | well, when you are done with the lappy |
22:02.21 | JeffM2501 | dunno |
22:02.27 | JeffM2501 | was done ages before the wiki |
22:04.12 | tupone_laptop | JeffM2501, do you remember what to do to get commit emails? Is that automatic or [darek] needs to subscribe? |
22:04.27 | JeffM2501 | you have to subscribe |
22:08.58 | TimRiker | there is a email list on SF. just join the list. |
22:09.16 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: Pyramids texturing done |
22:10.16 | [darek] | tupone_laptop: I did already |
22:10.23 | tupone_laptop | ahh ok |
22:11.13 | tupone_laptop | good |
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22:20.44 | [darek] | nite |
22:32.03 | Links2004[Links] | hi i have a idea for new roming control |
22:32.41 | Links2004[Links] | <- ^ ->.. to X Y pos |
22:32.44 | Links2004[Links] | + - Zpos |
22:32.45 | Guu | I don't know! |
22:33.12 | Links2004[Links] | <PROTECTED> |
22:33.50 | brad | what about the people on laptops who dont have a numpad? ;) |
22:34.21 | Links2004[Links] | add a config menu ? |
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22:35.02 | brad | o i c :P |
22:35.12 | Links2004[Links] | ? o i c ? |
22:35.26 | Rawk | oh, I see |
22:35.28 | brad | sry, oh I see |
22:36.38 | Links2004[Links] | or a option for set old oder new style |
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22:50.33 | Constitution | so a moving/rotating turret is okay with the devs now, per the GSoC wiki page (Two-player tanks idea)? |
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22:51.29 | tupone_laptop | is not ok. Who wrote that? |
22:52.20 | L4m3r | the devs have never really had a gripe with the two-player tanks concept |
22:52.22 | L4m3r | afaik |
22:53.15 | L4m3r | brlcad did it |
22:54.35 | tupone_laptop | hehe |
22:54.54 | L4m3r | keeping it simple would be a challenge |
22:54.56 | L4m3r | as would lag |
22:56.05 | KTL | anybody who played the game half an hour and thought a bit would understand why a moving turret is not welcome, because it would imply a totally different game |
22:56.27 | purple_cow | that crazy brlcad |
22:58.51 | Rawk | naughty brlcad ;-) |
22:59.05 | L4m3r | a two player system COULD work out in a similar method |
22:59.32 | L4m3r | still simplistic enough if you ask me, though if implmented it probably would not be long before someone hacked the client to do both at once |
22:59.57 | blast007 | split screen you mean? |
23:00.23 | L4m3r | or dual monitors, or just staying with one viewport |
23:00.46 | L4m3r | not exactly a trivial thing to do, but not THAT hard I think |
23:01.35 | KTL | so you have the shooter and driver next to each other? |
23:01.40 | KTL | (argh) |
23:07.38 | purple_cow | urrgh |
23:07.42 | purple_cow | who added BZDB.getPointer? |
23:08.35 | purple_cow | that is seriously uncool |
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23:34.06 | brlcad | Constitution: it's not just "moving turret" -- it's specific to a multi-player tank |
23:34.51 | brlcad | each player would have the same degrees of freedom as before -- which has been the original constraint of not adding more complexity to the input controls than already exists |
23:35.21 | brlcad | i.e. you specifically would not be able to drive the tank and move the turret independently as a single player |
23:36.23 | brlcad | with a gunner and a driver, though, the controls actually remain pretty much identical for both players, just one only controls driving and the other only controls turret aim and firing |
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23:41.40 | brlcad | L4m3r: yeah.. simple will be hard -- I think the hardest part will be what the interface is actually like for joining/departing a tank pairing |
23:41.58 | L4m3r | I think lag will be the hardest part ;) |
23:42.10 | L4m3r | perhaps a direct connection between players would be idea |
23:42.13 | L4m3r | ideal* |
23:42.39 | brlcad | i think subspace had you fly over/near the teammate that you wanted to join, then you requested a join via a keybinding -- and the other player would see a request and allow or reject (iirc) |
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23:42.57 | Constitution | hmm |
23:42.57 | Constitution | I see |
23:43.12 | L4m3r | I app'd, BTW |
23:43.46 | brlcad | L4m3r: lag shouldn't really be complicated.. it's like being in observer mode "driving with .." someone |
23:44.03 | L4m3r | I suppose |
23:44.03 | brlcad | someone else would be driving, you'd just have control of the turret/firing |
23:44.04 | KTL | I got a pointer, i clearly see it is still pointing to an object, the object has been made with new, i do a delete and i get on that spot in the code: *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer |
23:44.48 | brlcad | KTL: it can still seemingly point to data, yet be a pointer that is invalid or already freed |
23:45.00 | brlcad | yeah |
23:45.22 | KTL | and still ... there is only 1 delete in my code |
23:45.29 | brlcad | KTL: be sure to set your pointers to NULL after delete everywhere and see if it still looks like it's pointing to anything |
23:45.35 | KTL | the really first time it is used it crashes allready |
23:45.35 | DTRemenak | does your code call someone else's code? |
23:46.00 | DTRemenak | 'cause they may be rudely deleting it for you |
23:46.04 | brlcad | you could easily have one delete and be calling it multiple times |
23:46.08 | KTL | there is qt ... |
23:46.26 | KTL | but qt has nothing to do with the object i delete |
23:46.28 | brlcad | ahh, their api may be doing auto pointers by default .. have to read their api |
23:46.43 | KTL | it is in fact a boost smart point i am using |
23:46.47 | KTL | pointer |
23:47.00 | brlcad | er .. |
23:47.11 | KTL | I made a class with a reference counter |
23:47.13 | brlcad | well .. then what are you calling delete for? |
23:47.36 | KTL | well if the reference counter hits 0 then you are still supposed to delete it yourself no? |
23:47.52 | KTL | intrusive_ptr_add_ref |
23:47.53 | JeffM2501 | it's smart |
23:47.55 | KTL | intrusive_ptr_release |
23:48.05 | KTL | these things are still handed out to the user |
23:48.08 | brlcad | that's what a smart pointer does for you when it does out of scope and has no references remaining |
23:48.22 | purple_cow | brlcad: what makes a white russian "sexy" ? |
23:48.41 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, I'm going to go with "breasts" |
23:48.46 | brlcad | purple_cow: the "vessel" :) |
23:49.03 | KTL | i use boost/intrusive_ptr.hpp |
23:49.32 | KTL | never had any trouble with it, used it a lot |
23:50.04 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@pool-71-184-81-71.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
23:51.21 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97_ (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
23:51.35 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: |
23:51.35 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: Pull more stuff out of the main switch into separate functions. Clean up a |
23:51.35 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: little, and sigh a deep sigh of disapproval at BZDB.getPointer. |
23:52.03 | JeffM2501 | who's sticking pointers in there? |
23:52.41 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: brlcad, I think |
23:52.43 | brlcad | JeffM2501: it's always had a pointer in there in leu of having another global |
23:53.26 | purple_cow | that's dumb! |
23:53.27 | brlcad | that goes back like two and a half years |
23:53.27 | JeffM2501 | make a singleton :) |
23:53.33 | purple_cow | it's a total excuse for lazy object design, but it doesn't have the same bad smell as a global! |
23:53.39 | JeffM2501 | maybe I'll make it a global if I get bored in lancaster :) |
23:53.41 | brlcad | JeffM2501: it's actually not a singleton though -- at least at a class level |
23:53.51 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, is there only 1 ever? |
23:53.56 | purple_cow | singletons are lazy design too! |
23:54.30 | brlcad | JeffM2501: no, there actually are more than one (or there were, forget the last state) |
23:54.40 | purple_cow | "I don't actually want to think about how and where this will be used, so I'll just make it accessible from anywhere" |
23:54.51 | JeffM2501 | how do you get bzdb to hold more then one? |
23:55.17 | brlcad | DTRemenak: I think someone specifically added that in response to the filter :P |
23:55.56 | DTRemenak | brlcad: no, it's significantly older |
23:56.05 | brlcad | hey, I don't care where it's at -- I think it's the lesser of two evils, even though both are evil -- ya'll welcome to change it if you feel different, but as for me - meh :) |
23:56.14 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you wanted him back, you pay the price :) |
23:56.17 | DTRemenak | Sat Aug 23 06:43:29 2003 UTC by davidtrowbridge ;) |
23:56.25 | brlcad | JeffM2501: heh |
23:57.20 | JeffM2501 | lets see if this lapy can build bz now :) |
23:57.24 | DTRemenak | hm, or maybe your commit is even older than that |
23:57.29 | DTRemenak | Thu Aug 21 22:46:33 2003 UTC |
23:57.38 | JeffM2501 | gets a nice 75-80 fps on fullsettings. |
23:58.02 | DTRemenak | so who's the lazy one now...someone saw him commit it, wrote a doc to object, and didn't fix it...comes back 3.5 years later and complains :P |
23:58.07 | JeffM2501 | tupone_laptop, how much of the gui have you ripped out? |
23:58.15 | brlcad | DTRemenak: could be wrong, but I remember him adding the object broker comments after he saw how I abused the precious bzdb :) |
23:58.24 | DTRemenak | brlcad: yup |
23:58.30 | DTRemenak | it was just earlier than you remembered |
23:58.40 | brlcad | it was that long ago? |
23:58.42 | brlcad | yeesh |
23:58.43 | DTRemenak | yeah |
23:58.55 | tupone_laptop | gui is stil there |
23:59.24 | brlcad | that was actually to motivate someone to work on global's elimination too.. see how much progress we've made :) |
23:59.25 | tupone_laptop | and maybe some is incompatible, Just changed the one that broke my machine |
23:59.50 | tupone_laptop | :) hola brlcad |
23:59.59 | brlcad | ciao signore |