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| 00:31.12 | blast007 | yeah, I'll be getting in touch with halo3 after work today |
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| 00:40.05 | brlcad | JeffM2501: we can have multiple people working on the same/similar ideas, but they can't collaborate -- their efforts have to be independent so they can be evaluated independently |
| 00:40.20 | brlcad | otherwise, our slots are purely however we rank them, regardless of the submitter |
| 00:41.31 | brlcad | would make sense to rank forward multiple ideas from the same student, though if multiples made it forward, the student or org would just ahve to choose which |
| 00:43.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
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| 00:46.41 | brlcad | welcome trovao |
| 00:46.55 | trovao | brlcad: hehe, thanks! |
| 00:47.25 | brlcad | e boa vinda |
| 00:47.44 | trovao | obrigado |
| 00:48.19 | trovao | so, as I was talking to brlcad, I am a brazilian computer engineering student interested in applying to SoC |
| 00:48.49 | trovao | I am currently implementing my graduation project as an open source game and am sure that interacting with bzflag's code would help a lot |
| 00:49.27 | trovao | so I found the Headless Artificial Intelligence Agent idea and my eyes shined |
| 00:49.37 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:49.54 | trovao | I know that some other people are interested on that, but I thought it was very interesting |
| 00:49.54 | brlcad | yes, good stuff .. that's one of my main interest areas actually |
| 00:50.03 | trovao | and decided to drop by the channel to talk about that |
| 00:50.29 | brlcad | so, what's your idea? |
| 00:50.55 | trovao | brlcad: summing up: develop it :) |
| 00:50.59 | trovao | just kidding |
| 00:51.19 | brlcad | actually, what is "it"? |
| 00:51.32 | brlcad | the ideas page gives a very general idea with lots of possible directions that could be taken |
| 00:52.00 | Dessy | ideas site? |
| 00:52.05 | trovao | (I may take a while to type everythin) |
| 00:52.56 | brlcad | Dessy: our ideas page - http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code |
| 00:53.03 | CThinkTanker | headless artificial intelligence idea?! |
| 00:53.13 | Dessy | hm |
| 00:53.18 | CThinkTanker | what is that? |
| 00:53.27 | brlcad | they're just a sampling of rough ideas that we're interested in to various degrees |
| 00:53.35 | eTangenT | ok, I just encountered a newproblem |
| 00:53.40 | CThinkTanker | ah |
| 00:53.51 | eTangenT | I just set up dual-head on here, and now BZFlag looks all messed up |
| 00:54.01 | eTangenT | is there a way I can just have it start up on one screen? |
| 00:54.14 | brlcad | eTangenT: there's an environment variable you can set |
| 00:54.33 | eTangenT | or can I use -geometry? |
| 00:54.33 | AAA_awright | the -view option |
| 00:54.43 | AAA_awright | bzflag -view normal I think |
| 00:54.50 | eTangenT | k |
| 00:55.05 | eTangenT | alright |
| 00:55.06 | eTangenT | not normal |
| 00:55.33 | trovao | I am not very familiar with C++, although I like C a lot. So my proposal would be to develop it in C (if its possible, obviously, it was one of my main reasons to come here). Defining "it": I would study the client code and hope there's some documentation to get its basic functionality. |
| 00:55.36 | AAA_awright | I had a bzflag -view three setup once... I don't have my bzflag computer in front of me, but try bzflag -help for options... |
| 00:56.03 | brlcad | eTangenT: try setting SDL_SINGLEDISPLAY=1 |
| 00:56.08 | brlcad | in your shell |
| 00:56.48 | trovao | it seems to me that this new client would span as many agents as needed. So it would need to subscribe to the server as many clients as needed |
| 00:57.21 | eTangenT | brlcad: forgive the n00b question but... how do I set that again? |
| 00:57.29 | trovao | oh, I forgot to mention, I also code in python, so making a pyrex interface would be my first option to enable scripting, though SWIG can be used later |
| 00:57.47 | trovao | (i find swig a bit confusing, but it could be better developed later) |
| 00:58.01 | brlcad | trovao: if you're more familiar with C, it might make more sense to focus on something that could be integrated into the server (the server is more procedural) |
| 00:58.18 | brlcad | eTangenT: what's your shell |
| 00:58.24 | eTangenT | bash |
| 00:58.52 | brlcad | trovao: what's the area of AI that you'd have it study/support? |
| 00:58.52 | brlcad | that affects the archtecture a little |
| 00:58.57 | brlcad | eTangenT: export SDL_SINGLEDISPLAY=1 |
| 00:59.02 | brlcad | then try running bzflag |
| 01:00.05 | eTangenT | brlcad: still no go. |
| 01:00.12 | eTangenT | it's stretched across the two screens |
| 01:00.17 | eTangenT | brb |
| 01:00.29 | brlcad | then your X setup sounds messed up |
| 01:00.58 | trovao | brlcad: as I said, thats why I came here, maybe C wouldn't be a choice (and I guess developing it fully in python wouldn't help much, maybe for prototyping only) |
| 01:01.27 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, ahh I did not understand that, that's cool |
| 01:01.56 | brlcad | trovao: developing it in python strictly wouldn't be very useful -- though creating an api and hooking it up to swig might be |
| 01:02.32 | trovao | brlcad: I suppose I would need to study about path planning and developing goal oriented agents. |
| 01:03.15 | trovao | brlcad: yep, I agree with you |
| 01:04.28 | *** part/#bzflag Bz_Win_Hiding (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:04.50 | trovao | brlcad: about checking out other parts, I still don't have an idea to base my project application. With the AI Agent I have at least a little minimal understanding (if not, I will need it fast, because of my grad project) |
| 01:06.16 | *** join/#bzflag tankzilla (n=tankzill@ool-4572e362.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:06.32 | trovao | brlcad: the robocode links on the page also give some good ideas for development |
| 01:07.38 | brlcad | trovao: just remember that the focus and primary interest for gsoc is on improving bzflag and writing code that we can use long-term |
| 01:07.52 | brlcad | so any proposal, no matter what the topic, should keep that in mind |
| 01:08.37 | trovao | Yeah, I understand that, thats why I came here in first place, to know from you, the devs, if my idea is any good |
| 01:09.39 | brlcad | yes that's good you came here.. though it sounds like you don't exactly have an idea yet either :) |
| 01:09.54 | JeffM2501 | coming here is good :) |
| 01:10.10 | trovao | brlcad: nope, I wanted to talk to you and "steal" some tips :) |
| 01:10.21 | JeffM2501 | if you submit a proposal be sure to include your IRC nick so we know you took the initiatve in asking us. |
| 01:10.23 | brlcad | the C angle is workable, but probably does limit what all can be done |
| 01:11.11 | brlcad | even the robocode api is object-oriented (java), so translating that to bz would be in c++, not C |
| 01:11.34 | brlcad | the bzflag server is a decent chunk of procedural C, so that would be my first inclination |
| 01:12.11 | JeffM2501 | so what happend with the lefthanded CS thing? |
| 01:12.13 | brlcad | could propose work to integrating scriptable agents into the server |
| 01:12.14 | JeffM2501 | he just gonna hack it out? |
| 01:12.20 | trovao | well, we can 'emulate' OO in C, though it would be sub-optimal :D |
| 01:12.33 | brlcad | JeffM2501: he was going to ask the devs if they had some means |
| 01:12.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh cool |
| 01:13.00 | trovao | brlcad: wow, good idea! |
| 01:13.12 | eTangenT | brlcad: I tried some more options with bzflag, doesn't seem to be doing much |
| 01:13.33 | brlcad | eTangenT: I told you that it sounds like your X11 configuration is wrong |
| 01:13.48 | eTangenT | I used SaX2 to configure the dual head |
| 01:13.52 | eTangenT | might an option be in there? |
| 01:13.56 | brlcad | maybe |
| 01:14.38 | trovao | brlcad: some rules apply, right? Even though it isn't on the page, if its *good*, then it gets in? |
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| 01:15.22 | JeffM2501 | trovao, we don't know how many slots we get, we just rank the proposals |
| 01:15.46 | JeffM2501 | then they tell us what ones got it ( IIRC ) |
| 01:16.07 | Constitution | JeffM2501: lol @ t-shirt idea |
| 01:16.09 | trovao | JeffM2501: then its easy, I just need to write an ass-kicking proposal! |
| 01:16.18 | brlcad | trovao: yeah, the idea doesn't have to be on the page -- they're just meant to stimulate ideas and let you know what our general interest areas are |
| 01:16.25 | JeffM2501 | trovao, we also rank them on how important the feature is to us. |
| 01:16.57 | JeffM2501 | so you can have the best proposal for adding a calculator to BZ, but it is going to be not as important as say, networking |
| 01:17.18 | JeffM2501 | all the aspects add up |
| 01:17.20 | brlcad | the project areas listed are some of our top interests, but there's other stuff that you could certainly propose.. and if the proposal was well written enough, might just do well even if it's not on our list |
| 01:17.31 | JeffM2501 | the proposal, the idea, you, etc.. |
| 01:18.34 | trovao | nice, I will think a bit more and then will annoy you a bit more, ok? |
| 01:18.57 | brlcad | trovao: sure, sounds good |
| 01:19.17 | JeffM2501 | communication is always good |
| 01:19.22 | brlcad | trovao: another idea could be to implement an agent-based simulation system |
| 01:19.26 | JeffM2501 | unless it's 3AM and your arguing with brlcad :) |
| 01:19.33 | brlcad | to drive competitions of bots against bots |
| 01:19.41 | trovao | JeffM2501: he seems a nice guy |
| 01:19.49 | JeffM2501 | he is |
| 01:19.50 | brlcad | JeffM2501: it was 6am for me :P |
| 01:19.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah, I felt sorry for you |
| 01:20.01 | JeffM2501 | you get enough sleep? |
| 01:20.10 | brlcad | plenty |
| 01:20.18 | brlcad | i'll recover when i'm dead :) |
| 01:20.47 | brlcad | you still have that truck? |
| 01:20.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:20.55 | JeffM2501 | van is for work |
| 01:21.00 | brlcad | so truck bike and now van |
| 01:21.06 | JeffM2501 | van is a rental |
| 01:21.09 | brlcad | ah |
| 01:21.23 | JeffM2501 | firday DTRemenak and I go to LAX convention center to set up |
| 01:21.28 | JeffM2501 | at 6:00 AM |
| 01:21.51 | trovao | where should I begin to study your code? |
| 01:21.52 | JeffM2501 | did you try the new hud markers? do they work better when behind you now? |
| 01:21.57 | trovao | is there a documentation page? |
| 01:22.09 | JeffM2501 | documenwhat? |
| 01:22.12 | JeffM2501 | we have a wiki |
| 01:22.16 | JeffM2501 | and some man pages |
| 01:22.27 | JeffM2501 | but mostly it's just a "look at the code" thing |
| 01:22.37 | JeffM2501 | we don't have like function docs or anything |
| 01:22.46 | JeffM2501 | there are some API docs for the server side plugin API |
| 01:22.51 | brlcad | yeah, this is a game, not an engineering code ;) |
| 01:23.11 | JeffM2501 | our target end user only wants a binary to play with |
| 01:23.17 | trovao | lol |
| 01:23.34 | brlcad | there's docs for some things like the plugin api and network communications |
| 01:23.45 | JeffM2501 | really need to migrate the new API docs into the real doc |
| 01:23.50 | JeffM2501 | instead of wiki |
| 01:23.59 | brlcad | the real doc? |
| 01:24.03 | JeffM2501 | the real API doc |
| 01:24.05 | JeffM2501 | the HTML |
| 01:24.09 | brlcad | hm |
| 01:24.18 | JeffM2501 | or move the rest of the API docs, into the wiki |
| 01:24.22 | blast007 | or just move it all to the wiki ;) |
| 01:24.23 | trovao | what about doxygen? it works very well |
| 01:24.24 | blast007 | heh |
| 01:24.27 | JeffM2501 | and ditch the html |
| 01:24.30 | JeffM2501 | one or the other |
| 01:24.38 | trovao | I used to use it for some projects and school stuff |
| 01:24.43 | JeffM2501 | sure it does, IF you comment your code right |
| 01:24.43 | brlcad | i was thinking that we might actually be able to sync the wiki data with cvs |
| 01:25.05 | JeffM2501 | trovao, we generaly don't need heavy code docs as its' a very small group of users who use the code |
| 01:25.23 | JeffM2501 | what people need is playing docs and at the most server options. |
| 01:26.26 | brlcad | i ran across an interesting mediawiki export module that would let us dump xml that could be turned into manual pages, html, txt, pdf, etc (ala docbook) |
| 01:26.26 | JeffM2501 | it's more like the docs to photoshop then the docs for a lib |
| 01:26.26 | trovao | JeffM2501: got it |
| 01:26.27 | brlcad | and the code changes pretty quickly, the comments are frequently outdated |
| 01:26.43 | JeffM2501 | I made an effort to doc the API, as it is used by a larger group of end users |
| 01:26.48 | JeffM2501 | that are not devs |
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| 01:27.52 | eTangenT | alright |
| 01:27.56 | eTangenT | I give up on Dual-Head |
| 01:27.58 | trovao | should I grab code from cvs/svn or sf.net? |
| 01:28.02 | eTangenT | I meant it to see what it looked like anyways |
| 01:28.08 | eTangenT | now I can resume my normal bzflag :) |
| 01:28.12 | *** part/#bzflag tankzilla (n=tankzill@ool-4572e362.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:28.16 | JeffM2501 | trovao, the SoC will be wtih our cvs code |
| 01:28.23 | JeffM2501 | cvs head, our 2.1 version |
| 01:28.34 | JeffM2501 | we are done with our older 2.0.x branch |
| 01:28.44 | JeffM2501 | as it's incompatable with the new dev version |
| 01:28.45 | trovao | cool, thanks |
| 01:31.27 | brlcad | the way the community has been updating the wiki docs for the client and server are what make me think it might be good to integrate/sync them with cvs -- i have to test out how well it works, bidirectionally |
| 01:31.36 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_CVS has info on our modlues and stuff. |
| 01:31.47 | *** part/#bzflag Bluer_ (n=Bluer@124.82.60.107) |
| 01:32.03 | brlcad | JeffM2501: we really do need a couple more ideas up on the page |
| 01:32.17 | brlcad | else we're going to have like 5 engine proposals and 4 AI proposals |
| 01:32.20 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 01:32.39 | JeffM2501 | gee. woudn't a roadmap be good right about now :) |
| 01:32.50 | JeffM2501 | ok, better user/group managment tools |
| 01:32.53 | brlcad | nah, someone still would need to type up ideas :) |
| 01:33.06 | trovao | brlcad: looking from the outside, they seem the most 'real' |
| 01:33.14 | JeffM2501 | umm...... better list server sorting and stuff |
| 01:33.18 | JeffM2501 | distributed list server |
| 01:33.28 | JeffM2501 | automatic updates |
| 01:33.37 | JeffM2501 | multiple screen support |
| 01:33.40 | trovao | there's some ideas there that I don't even have the slightest idea on what to do with them |
| 01:33.41 | brlcad | that's a good one -- totally revamping the "select a server" page |
| 01:34.10 | JeffM2501 | that's all I can think of off the top of my head |
| 01:34.17 | JeffM2501 | that's not piddly little crap we just need to fix |
| 01:34.23 | brlcad | ooh, multiuser tanks -- one driver, one gunner |
| 01:34.27 | Links2004[Links] | for TortoiseCVS Anon see here http://links-clan.net/howto_cvs.php?lang=en |
| 01:34.32 | trovao | maybe a metaserver, which can find other servers, gather statistics and stuff like that (don't know if it exists) |
| 01:34.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah sure whatever :) |
| 01:34.44 | JeffM2501 | trovao, we have one |
| 01:35.20 | JeffM2501 | Links2004[Links], that page has info and a screenshot on how to use it in an on mode |
| 01:35.24 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Image:Tort_anon_cvs.png |
| 01:35.31 | brlcad | nobody has bitten on the authentication backend, might be good to break up that idea into two |
| 01:36.26 | Links2004[Links] | k but the use unix line ending is not in the wiki |
| 01:36.32 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/CVS |
| 01:36.47 | JeffM2501 | Links2004[Links], why in gods name would you want that on windows? |
| 01:37.10 | Links2004[Links] | ?? |
| 01:37.19 | JeffM2501 | windows dosn't want unix line endings |
| 01:37.24 | blast007 | I used to do that, but it just screwed stuff up when I edited it in VC ;) |
| 01:37.27 | JeffM2501 | oh unless you mean to build with mingw? |
| 01:37.41 | JeffM2501 | use VC8 EE |
| 01:37.46 | brlcad | if he has mingw, he could just use cvs directly |
| 01:37.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:38.05 | JeffM2501 | I can't see a reason to have tort do nix endings |
| 01:38.05 | blast007 | does DevC++ use unix ending, or doesn't it care? |
| 01:38.11 | JeffM2501 | dunno |
| 01:38.13 | blast007 | or does anyone actually use DevC++? ;) |
| 01:38.16 | JeffM2501 | but IIRC it dosnt' even build |
| 01:38.25 | brlcad | trovao: Links2004[Links] |
| 01:38.27 | JeffM2501 | VC EE makes devC++ somewhat pointless |
| 01:38.31 | blast007 | yeah |
| 01:38.36 | trovao | brlcad: thanks |
| 01:38.41 | blast007 | VC EE is way better and for the same price |
| 01:39.00 | Dessy | hi, have anyone see the onevsone plugin? |
| 01:39.02 | trovao | the code is coming, I am going to take a shower |
| 01:39.18 | trovao | once again, thank you very much for your help, guys |
| 01:39.22 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:39.22 | brlcad | cept that one is open source and can continue to be improved .. sucks today, but then so did most open source apps at some point |
| 01:39.37 | JeffM2501 | devC++ will be intersting in 3-5 years |
| 01:39.37 | brlcad | trovao: any time, we're always here |
| 01:41.37 | *** join/#bzflag anomaly (n=mike@adsl-155-92-198.gnv.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:41.42 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@69.249.178.98) |
| 01:44.00 | brlcad | he, we could have someone run things like split, rats, and flawfinder on bzflag, and fix everything they find |
| 01:44.21 | brlcad | basically defect/bug hunt, improve robustness |
| 01:44.33 | brlcad | kinda lame though |
| 01:44.51 | brlcad | though would also be useful |
| 01:49.49 | Dessy | how much jitter is ok? |
| 01:49.59 | Dessy | 10? 15? 20? |
| 01:50.00 | *** join/#bzflag tcoppi (n=thisnuke@129.138.32.143) |
| 01:50.19 | Dessy | ni think all over 15 is to much |
| 01:54.00 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 01:54.12 | brlcad | anything non-zero implies network flakiness (which is normal for some environments but still cause for concern) |
| 01:54.26 | brlcad | how much is "okay" is up to the server |
| 01:54.41 | brlcad | i'd generally expect jitter to be less than 10 |
| 01:55.41 | brlcad | trovao: another idea could be a statistics engine in the server -- keep track of all player activity and provide useful metrics |
| 01:55.52 | brlcad | the embedded http web interface could be all C too |
| 01:56.11 | JeffM2501 | finish the python plugin :) |
| 01:56.25 | brlcad | which is that? |
| 01:56.31 | JeffM2501 | the plug-in |
| 01:56.34 | JeffM2501 | named python |
| 01:56.43 | brlcad | ahh, plugin on top of plugin ;) |
| 01:57.00 | brlcad | yeah, that could work |
| 01:57.14 | brlcad | though that would also be another good case for using swig |
| 01:57.41 | brlcad | wrap all of bzapi in swig and you'd have an interface to just about every scripting language |
| 01:59.09 | brlcad | that would actually be a pretty cool project |
| 02:00.17 | *** join/#bzflag gl2tosl2 (n=leif@71-215-255-135.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 02:00.25 | purple_cow | the python stuff there is pretty awesome |
| 02:00.40 | purple_cow | heck, it even includes a twisted reactor that uses the bzfs main loop |
| 02:00.45 | purple_cow | web UI is *so* easy |
| 02:02.18 | brlcad | you must have python on highlight |
| 02:02.32 | JeffM2501 | python python PYTHON!!!!!! |
| 02:02.54 | purple_cow | nope, I just was checking over IRC history after coming back from playing foosball |
| 02:02.56 | purple_cow | *ahem* |
| 02:02.57 | purple_cow | working |
| 02:02.59 | purple_cow | fixing bugs! |
| 02:03.00 | purple_cow | yes |
| 02:03.02 | JeffM2501 | python |
| 02:03.50 | *** join/#bzflag trovao (n=trovao@201.79.14.200) |
| 02:06.06 | AAA_awright | brlcad- you mentioned a web interface for bzfs. |
| 02:07.23 | JeffM2501 | somone else poked at it once |
| 02:07.25 | JeffM2501 | but not much |
| 02:07.41 | AAA_awright | I am working on, with the guys at #bztocks (Theme97/A Meteorite/tanner) a stats plugin and php web server |
| 02:09.01 | Dessy | aha |
| 02:09.07 | AAA_awright | I have a bot, written in PHP (until meteorite writes the plugin) that keeps player use logs, chats, ect. and logs them online, and mabye people saw bzflag.redjaket.ws while it was up... |
| 02:09.09 | Dessy | can anyone help me? |
| 02:09.18 | AAA_awright | but I also have http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzfsadmin |
| 02:09.22 | AAA_awright | Help? |
| 02:09.35 | Dessy | i need this plugin: |
| 02:09.36 | Dessy | OneVsOne-1.0.0.tar.gz |
| 02:09.37 | JeffM2501 | Dessy, not till we know what you need help with |
| 02:09.45 | JeffM2501 | Dessy, who made it? |
| 02:09.51 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: well, it's just that I don't remember what all I did before I lost interest |
| 02:09.56 | Dessy | catay |
| 02:09.57 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 02:09.59 | AAA_awright | Did you check the forums? |
| 02:10.03 | Dessy | but i cant it download |
| 02:10.12 | Dessy | file ois missing |
| 02:10.21 | purple_cow | I may be a spectacular hacker, but I also leave a trail of dead, half-finished projects in my wake ;-) |
| 02:10.43 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 02:10.53 | JeffM2501 | Dessy, then send a PM to the author |
| 02:11.33 | Dessy | uhm, ok... |
| 02:12.29 | JeffM2501 | the project didn't write it, so it's not in our source code |
| 02:12.40 | AAA_awright | The 1vs1 plugin was made for the 1vs1 league... try there |
| 02:14.15 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 02:14.17 | AAA_awright | I don't think bzfs needs an embedded web interface... it would be interesting if the server responded to HTTP requests... |
| 02:14.27 | AAA_awright | Theme97, shoe Jeff bzfsadmin |
| 02:14.37 | Theme97 | shoe? |
| 02:14.47 | AAA_awright | Show him my creation for me |
| 02:15.01 | Theme97 | can't you? |
| 02:15.10 | AAA_awright | ... I could narrate |
| 02:15.17 | AAA_awright | ...FINE! |
| 02:15.27 | AAA_awright | (inside joke) |
| 02:15.57 | JeffM2501 | hunh? |
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| 02:16.58 | AAA_awright | I saw a short dicussion on a web server inside bzfs |
| 02:17.28 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 02:17.32 | JeffM2501 | what's that got to do with me? |
| 02:18.02 | AAA_awright | It is for anyone who is interested(?). |
| 02:18.10 | JeffM2501 | I don't admin any servers |
| 02:18.12 | JeffM2501 | nor own any |
| 02:18.51 | AAA_awright | It wouldn't mean you, but anyone who wants to put a web server inside bzfs should see this project firt |
| 02:18.53 | purple_cow | hah, see. there's even a test in there that *runs a web server* and prints out a table of players/scores |
| 02:19.07 | AAA_awright | where? |
| 02:19.10 | purple_cow | plugins/python |
| 02:19.12 | purple_cow | brlcad: done. |
| 02:19.27 | AAA_awright | a plugin in python wha? |
| 02:19.49 | JeffM2501 | yah |
| 02:19.53 | JeffM2501 | using the python plugin |
| 02:20.09 | AAA_awright | oh |
| 02:21.42 | AAA_awright | I am running the web server in apache/PHP, and the plugin meteorite has been writing updates a MySQL database |
| 02:21.50 | brlcad | purple_cow: that's cool, but it's also a far cry from a completed interface that allows control of the server |
| 02:21.52 | purple_cow | that sounds complicated |
| 02:22.01 | purple_cow | brlcad: yeah, but the point is, it's there |
| 02:22.14 | purple_cow | drop in a more robust templating system, and fix up the bindings a bit |
| 02:22.24 | purple_cow | maybe add plugin API for things that don't exist |
| 02:22.52 | purple_cow | the totally sweet thing about this is that it's like 30 lines of code right now |
| 02:23.08 | brlcad | now sure what your overall point is, but that all sounds like great ideas |
| 02:23.12 | purple_cow | actually, it probably makes sense to start anew on the bindings to make it more pythonic |
| 02:23.24 | purple_cow | my point is that it's trivial |
| 02:23.30 | purple_cow | and ripe for the tackling |
| 02:23.39 | purple_cow | all it needs is someone to sit down with it and give it a little love |
| 02:23.45 | purple_cow | not a lot of love, just a little |
| 02:24.30 | AAA_awright | Wouldn't putting a stats-keeping web server _inside_ a plugin use lots of memory? |
| 02:25.28 | brlcad | so that's great, and could be an implementation approach -- there's still plenty of effort that could be put into the web interface itself, as to what all you can configure and manipulate |
| 02:25.31 | purple_cow | a heck of a lot less memory than apache+php+mysql |
| 02:25.51 | spldart | LOL.. purple_cow is talking about a little love on some code... I've molested kernel's so bad these last few weeks I've been slapped a few times :-) |
| 02:25.59 | AAA_awright | I mean keeping track of all the data that bzflag tanks put |
| 02:26.06 | AAA_awright | I have one running |
| 02:26.25 | purple_cow | brlcad: yep |
| 02:26.27 | brlcad | (for the gsoc suggestion that is) |
| 02:26.48 | AAA_awright | Dont tell meteorite (supposed to be secret ;) I have a proof-of-concept here: http://labs.redjacket.ws/bzfx |
| 02:27.10 | purple_cow | AAA_awright: if you want to store stats back to the beginning of time, it takes memory no matter where you put it |
| 02:27.43 | AAA_awright | I mean computer menory, not hard drive space |
| 02:27.49 | purple_cow | brlcad: maybe I'm just reacting to the fact that usually people say "it's so hard!" |
| 02:27.53 | AAA_awright | RAM vs. HDD |
| 02:27.53 | purple_cow | AAA_awright: what's the difference? |
| 02:27.55 | brlcad | AAA_awright: your approach is creative and useful -- but the main idea is something that can be shipped and would just work without any setup or external stuff |
| 02:28.10 | AAA_awright | it is MUCH easier to store 2GB of data on an HDD |
| 02:28.16 | brlcad | purple_cow: ah .. though I don't think anyone said the web interface was hard that I recall |
| 02:28.49 | AAA_awright | I guess the difference is our solution is a long-term solution that keeps track of player usage and abilities |
| 02:29.06 | purple_cow | you seem to be solving a different problem than brlcad |
| 02:29.11 | purple_cow | or me |
| 02:29.30 | brlcad | mebbie, or your just looking for something to gripe about |
| 02:29.35 | purple_cow | and really, there's no reason why you couldn't store stats data from a twisted web server running in-process in bzfs |
| 02:29.44 | purple_cow | but back it against mysql, or anything else |
| 02:29.44 | AAA_awright | I actually think now it would be a good idea to have a PLUGIN that has a SIMPLE web server in it, for simple maitnence |
| 02:29.54 | AAA_awright | keyword simple |
| 02:30.03 | purple_cow | plugins/python/test-twisted.py ;-) |
| 02:30.14 | brlcad | AAA_awright: that's kind of the idea being suggested |
| 02:30.30 | brlcad | whether it's a plugin on fully integrated is an impl detail |
| 02:30.43 | AAA_awright | yah. I was also going to say, for administration, I have the bzfs admin project... |
| 02:31.00 | AAA_awright | Has everyone seen that? |
| 02:31.22 | brlcad | requires login |
| 02:31.54 | purple_cow | yes, lots of implementation details. |
| 02:31.56 | AAA_awright | For good reason, with permissions you can start and stop bzfs servers |
| 02:32.02 | purple_cow | I say it's easy, because I have 30 lines of python that does it |
| 02:32.14 | purple_cow | other people say it's hard, because they'd need to write a huge amount of C++ to do it |
| 02:32.16 | purple_cow | ;-) |
| 02:32.24 | purple_cow | ok, enough python ranting for me |
| 02:32.38 | AAA_awright | configure the server, groups, etc, a Good Thing (TM) |
| 02:32.45 | purple_cow | OK, I lied, not 30. 40. |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | i still don't see anyone cept you saying it's hard :) |
| 02:32.49 | blast007 | 30 lines of python that handles the whole web interface? |
| 02:32.55 | brlcad | no matter what the language |
| 02:33.30 | AAA_awright | HTTP is a simple protocol, implementing GET only would require, at most, 20 lines of C or C-like code |
| 02:33.43 | AAA_awright | okay, I am optomistic |
| 02:33.46 | brlcad | blast007: hehe .. |
| 02:36.06 | brlcad | purple_cow likes to make claims on the "90%" proof-of-concept as complete.. blowing off the "other" 90% of needed production quality and usability work as just frivalous detail |
| 02:36.52 | blast007 | so meaing "make the buttons on the web page do something" ? ;) |
| 02:37.06 | brlcad | show buttons? |
| 02:37.18 | brlcad | input fields? |
| 02:37.29 | brlcad | changing server state in ways the api doesn't support? |
| 02:39.06 | brlcad | noo.. it's "done", something responds via http and dumps a player list |
| 02:39.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 02:40.58 | blast007 | heh |
| 02:41.45 | AAA_awright | Is the port of the server that the webserver is on? You probably would need to modify the BZFS source to know the difference beteen HTTP and bzproto |
| 02:42.16 | blast007 | AAA_awright: right now, bzfs instantly spits back "BZFS0046" on a connection |
| 02:42.42 | AAA_awright | oh, right. So that is impossible. |
| 02:42.47 | Dessy | night all! |
| 02:42.48 | blast007 | we'd have to change that so it would wait for the first request, be it HTTP, bz protocol, or otherwise |
| 02:42.56 | blast007 | AAA_awright: no, we'd just have to change it |
| 02:42.59 | blast007 | proto change |
| 02:43.10 | AAA_awright | yah, and a bad idea. I like the printed header. |
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| 02:43.41 | AAA_awright | mabye http://localhost:8080/(bzfsport)/ |
| 02:43.43 | brlcad | they could be merged, but it's actually probably a lot easier if they're just kept separate |
| 02:43.52 | AAA_awright | How does that work? |
| 02:44.02 | brlcad | does it matter? :) |
| 02:44.06 | blast007 | brlcad: uTorrent has a web interface on the same port :) |
| 02:44.17 | AAA_awright | I want to try it :) |
| 02:44.18 | blast007 | same port as the bittorrent stuff |
| 02:44.22 | AAA_awright | so yes it does |
| 02:44.33 | blast007 | makes it easier for routers/firewalls |
| 02:44.55 | brlcad | yeah, it's not really that hard -- you just need the initial response to be http savy |
| 02:44.57 | blast007 | however, I can see reasons for it to be seperate too |
| 02:45.09 | brlcad | from there, you know what to chatter once the recipient responds |
| 02:45.11 | blast007 | combined would have to be built into bzfs |
| 02:46.56 | brlcad | the server itself should be "combined" in some sort -- either some small lightweight embedded server or something like twisted via something like the python plugin |
| 02:47.15 | blast007 | I mean if the ports were combined |
| 02:47.35 | brlcad | ahh |
| 02:47.36 | blast007 | a plugin wouldn't be able to steal focus away from the main TCP connection port for the web stuff |
| 02:47.52 | blast007 | so that would require bzfs integration |
| 02:47.53 | brlcad | combined ports would require a mild amount of bzfs and bzflag mods |
| 02:48.08 | brlcad | nothing hard, but certainly changes the initial handshake |
| 02:48.11 | blast007 | yeah, the client would initiate the handshake |
| 02:48.55 | blast007 | as well, services that relied on seeing "BZFS0026" spit out right away would have to be updated |
| 02:49.06 | brlcad | still, there's actually some other benefits to splitting them out |
| 02:49.09 | blast007 | yup |
| 02:49.18 | brlcad | being able to firewall the web server interface differently |
| 02:49.35 | AAA_awright | I am not much for changing the protocol like that... |
| 02:50.01 | blast007 | same port is merely for end-user conviencene, and easier to memorize which port is being used for a server ;) |
| 02:50.02 | AAA_awright | That start header is the only way to tell the difference between bzproto versions |
| 02:50.22 | blast007 | AAA_awright: it could still spit that out |
| 02:50.27 | brlcad | AAA_awright: that wouldn't go away, the format would just change |
| 02:50.33 | blast007 | it would just need the client so say "Hey, I'm a bzflag client!" |
| 02:50.37 | AAA_awright | ...how? |
| 02:50.50 | blast007 | so an initial message sent from the client to the server |
| 02:51.01 | brlcad | AAA_awright: again, "does it matter"? I doubt they'd be merged for the other reasons |
| 02:51.27 | AAA_awright | What if that changes between versions? the header isn't a bzflag packet, unlike this porposed handshake packet |
| 02:51.41 | blast007 | AAA_awright: we can break protocol... |
| 02:51.49 | blast007 | that's the whole point of the major versions |
| 02:51.56 | blast007 | so we can change how stuff works |
| 02:51.57 | AAA_awright | not without breaking previous clients |
| 02:52.03 | blast007 | o.O |
| 02:52.08 | brlcad | sure, and we do that all the time |
| 02:52.10 | AAA_awright | at least now they die with a message... |
| 02:52.11 | blast007 | we're talking about 2.1/2.2 |
| 02:52.20 | AAA_awright | "Protocol version mismatch" |
| 02:52.21 | blast007 | 2.0.x is dead |
| 02:52.24 | brlcad | the next release will not be compatible with existing servers |
| 02:52.27 | blast007 | oh |
| 02:52.31 | blast007 | I see what you mean |
| 02:52.42 | blast007 | but they should have those servers in their list ;) |
| 02:52.45 | AAA_awright | if we updated, it would say somthing like "Server timeout" |
| 02:52.47 | blast007 | er, shouldn't* |
| 02:52.54 | brlcad | not necessarily |
| 02:53.05 | brlcad | that's entirely how the initial response is formed |
| 02:53.20 | brlcad | it could simply be "a web page" that dumps the proto |
| 02:54.29 | brlcad | either way, it's all mostly irrelevant thought-mongering .. that's not the suggested approach |
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| 03:20.26 | brlcad | hmm, another interested in AI |
| 03:21.03 | daxxar | The scriptable ai agent? :S |
| 03:21.39 | brlcad | that's only one of several AI ideas, but yes |
| 03:21.52 | brlcad | there are a variety of possible projects: stand-alone clients, integrated into the server, integrated into the gui client, external simulation frameworks (think evolutionary), api compatibility with robocode, scripting layers, etc |
| 03:23.04 | daxxar | I wonder how feasible implementing a jvm in an application is, hm. |
| 03:23.33 | daxxar | Oh well, good night. Hopefully I'll get to do the proposal tomorrow, at worst friday. This report was quite a bit more than expected. :| |
| 03:24.33 | brlcad | daxxar: you're submitting something towards ai too? |
| 03:24.43 | AAA_awright | I like the idea of a dedicated bzflag server client that can be a scriped bot. That functionality then can be moved with a compile-time option to integrate it with the server |
| 03:25.00 | AAA_awright | Whatever we do, we need a better Roger |
| 03:25.06 | daxxar | That was my initial intent, but I'll take a new look at the depths of my mind and the ideas-page before doing the application. |
| 03:25.14 | brlcad | daxxar: k |
| 03:25.38 | daxxar | brlcad: Would another application just get 'lost in the heap'? |
| 03:26.20 | AAA_awright | (the current AI bot). What would be cool is an F8 bot that learns from the users driving habbits and mimics them. |
| 03:26.37 | AAA_awright | Just simple stuff, like matching the rate of jumping, rico shots, etc.. |
| 03:26.51 | brlcad | daxxar: not in the least |
| 03:27.15 | brlcad | if yours is better (and that might not take much), it could easily jump to the top |
| 03:27.21 | daxxar | How many have you got thus far? (And how many of them are you seroiusly considering?) |
| 03:27.28 | daxxar | seriously* |
| 03:27.37 | JeffM2501 | we don't pick a number |
| 03:27.39 | JeffM2501 | we rank them |
| 03:27.42 | JeffM2501 | google picks the number |
| 03:27.51 | daxxar | JeffM2501: I'm aware of that. :-) |
| 03:28.20 | JeffM2501 | so how many dosn't come into it |
| 03:28.24 | JeffM2501 | we'll rank them |
| 03:28.26 | brlcad | the expected average will be around 6 |
| 03:28.26 | JeffM2501 | all of them |
| 03:28.50 | daxxar | The first question stands, and the second, well. I mean, excluding those that you blatantly didn't consider for the "top" of the ranking. :) (one-liners and such) |
| 03:28.56 | brlcad | we're new and smallish in comparison to some projects, so maybe 6 maybe 4, don't know for sure |
| 03:29.22 | JeffM2501 | we have no one lineers |
| 03:29.33 | JeffM2501 | to me most of our submissions are good |
| 03:29.39 | JeffM2501 | one is weak in my book |
| 03:29.41 | daxxar | Okay. :-) |
| 03:29.44 | JeffM2501 | it'll get my lowest rank |
| 03:30.00 | daxxar | How many AI-related submissions, and how many in total? (If you don't mind me asking) |
| 03:30.20 | brlcad | JeffM2501: new map editor proposal, interesting |
| 03:30.32 | JeffM2501 | coo |
| 03:30.44 | JeffM2501 | talked it up in #irrlicht, some may submit |
| 03:30.56 | JeffM2501 | they perked up when they heard the money |
| 03:31.29 | brlcad | daxxar: I heh |
| 03:31.36 | brlcad | er, JeffM2501; heh |
| 03:32.37 | brlcad | daxxar: it's still just a couple, as well as a couple others that are still writing their proposal |
| 03:33.51 | daxxar | brlcad: okay. =) |
| 03:33.58 | daxxar | OH well, good night. See you around. :-) |
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| 03:35.45 | brlcad | see ya |
| 03:35.54 | JeffM2501 | should have done libIRC as a mentor and added the idea "an integrated way to kick and block social retards from IRC channels" |
| 03:36.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:36.18 | JeffM2501 | if we had a function "isTard()" we'd be the top lib in use :) |
| 03:36.24 | gn00bie | one man's social retard, is another man's genius |
| 03:38.11 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull :) |
| 03:38.38 | JeffM2501 | or an angry monkey detector |
| 03:38.40 | JeffM2501 | that'd work |
| 03:39.16 | gn00bie | yeah, angry monkey detector is a much better idea |
| 03:42.26 | *** join/#bzflag chameleon (n=matt@dpc674517244.direcpc.com) |
| 03:43.16 | chameleon | hi all, is there any mentors for Google Summer of Code online? |
| 03:43.31 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 03:43.51 | chameleon | ah ok, youre just the one i wanted to talk to |
| 03:44.05 | JeffM2501 | coo |
| 03:44.08 | chameleon | i was interested in applying for the editor |
| 03:44.16 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 03:44.25 | chameleon | and i wanted to run some ideas by you and find out what you think |
| 03:44.30 | JeffM2501 | go for it |
| 03:44.54 | chameleon | so i guess youre wanting code in C/C++ over a scripting language, right? |
| 03:45.03 | JeffM2501 | depends |
| 03:45.21 | JeffM2501 | we want something maintainable and easy to install on the 3 big OSs |
| 03:45.28 | chameleon | yeah |
| 03:45.33 | JeffM2501 | like drag and drop, or an installer |
| 03:45.44 | chameleon | ok, how do you feel about python? |
| 03:45.47 | JeffM2501 | C++ is easier for us to maintain |
| 03:45.54 | chameleon | thats what i thought |
| 03:45.55 | JeffM2501 | some know it |
| 03:46.05 | JeffM2501 | but how is the install on the OSs? |
| 03:46.10 | JeffM2501 | and what is the dependencies |
| 03:46.15 | JeffM2501 | and how big is the deliverable? |
| 03:46.24 | chameleon | in windows its incredibly easy, just a simple installer |
| 03:46.25 | JeffM2501 | those would be my concerns for a python one |
| 03:46.36 | chameleon | i wouldnt know about macos, and linux is up to the package manager |
| 03:46.40 | JeffM2501 | we had someone try a python one, it was not fun |
| 03:46.45 | chameleon | a GUI toolkit is just another package that installs into it |
| 03:46.50 | JeffM2501 | what if the end user dosn't have python? |
| 03:46.51 | chameleon | yeah, python can get messy if you dont know it well |
| 03:46.59 | chameleon | well i have another approach |
| 03:47.03 | chameleon | using C++ and Qt |
| 03:47.08 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 03:47.22 | chameleon | Qt is pretty solid, and Qt4 is free for all platforms now |
| 03:47.24 | gl2tosl2 | python is installed by default in mac osx |
| 03:47.32 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:47.39 | gl2tosl2 | don't know what version, 2.4 |
| 03:47.42 | gl2tosl2 | i think |
| 03:47.50 | brlcad | though which extensions you get and what all is available is probably questionable |
| 03:47.57 | brlcad | e.g. pygame stuff |
| 03:48.09 | chameleon | support for things like Gtk is iffy depending on the platform too |
| 03:48.09 | JeffM2501 | indded |
| 03:48.16 | brlcad | was rather flaky last I tested |
| 03:48.24 | chameleon | yeah |
| 03:48.25 | JeffM2501 | I've heard qt is nice cross plat |
| 03:48.36 | chameleon | qt is incredibly easy to use and maintain |
| 03:48.48 | chameleon | in my experience anyways |
| 03:49.19 | chameleon | its a little different to compile, as you have to use a preprocessor for signals etc |
| 03:49.37 | chameleon | but its professionally supported on a lot of major platforms |
| 03:49.37 | JeffM2501 | as long as it can build and ship on the big 3 :) |
| 03:49.42 | chameleon | alright |
| 03:49.57 | chameleon | now i have one more question |
| 03:50.00 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 03:50.28 | brlcad | qt is probably got the upper hand because they go for native look n feel |
| 03:50.31 | chameleon | i was thinking it would be fairly easy to set up a context for opengl using the existing code to display objects and such |
| 03:50.44 | JeffM2501 | you'd think that woudn't you :) |
| 03:51.00 | chameleon | ive been going through the source lately and it looks pretty well laid out |
| 03:51.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah you'd rip a lot |
| 03:51.13 | chameleon | but i havent really worked with BZFlag code much so im not sure |
| 03:51.21 | JeffM2501 | it's dooable |
| 03:51.24 | chameleon | it should be easy to load BZW files using the existing framework too |
| 03:51.35 | JeffM2501 | well the client rendering code dosn't read bzw |
| 03:51.39 | JeffM2501 | only the server does |
| 03:51.44 | JeffM2501 | so the parser is elsewhere |
| 03:51.48 | JeffM2501 | but it's a modular parser |
| 03:51.49 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:51.50 | brlcad | there's a lot of crossing between the various libraries unfortunately, but you can probably extract/call the pieces you need just to get at their opengl drawing routines |
| 03:51.51 | JeffM2501 | so that's not bad |
| 03:52.01 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:52.03 | JeffM2501 | geting out scenemanger wouldn't be too bad |
| 03:52.15 | chameleon | yeah i was checking it out just a second ago |
| 03:52.15 | JeffM2501 | so it'd be helpfull to do that work yes |
| 03:52.21 | JeffM2501 | but I'd not say it's a requirement |
| 03:52.31 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:52.41 | JeffM2501 | if it can be done cleanly, and be made modular in the code, more power to ya :) |
| 03:52.53 | chameleon | ok so i think that answers anything |
| 03:52.56 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 03:52.57 | chameleon | unless you have anything else for me |
| 03:53.06 | JeffM2501 | naw not realy |
| 03:53.11 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:53.16 | chameleon | thanks a lot! |
| 03:53.17 | JeffM2501 | the big things for me on that are installablility and ease of use |
| 03:53.21 | JeffM2501 | after that is maintainability |
| 03:53.27 | JeffM2501 | anything else after that is cake :) |
| 03:53.36 | chameleon | ok, sounds good :D |
| 03:53.51 | chameleon | look for my application sometime in the near future ;) |
| 03:54.03 | chameleon | see ya |
| 03:54.09 | brlcad | mm cake, er pie |
| 03:54.10 | JeffM2501 | be sure to add your IRC nic |
| 03:54.15 | JeffM2501 | so we know you taled to use first |
| 03:54.19 | JeffM2501 | that goes a long way to helping |
| 03:54.26 | JeffM2501 | communication skills and all :) |
| 03:54.33 | chameleon | ok |
| 03:54.41 | chameleon | do you want my email? |
| 03:54.50 | chameleon | if you think of anything you want to let me know? |
| 03:55.05 | JeffM2501 | we'll comment on your application if we need to |
| 03:55.11 | chameleon | alright |
| 03:55.16 | JeffM2501 | they have a way for us to add comments to your thing |
| 03:55.18 | chameleon | thanks again |
| 03:55.23 | JeffM2501 | when it works :) |
| 03:55.31 | JeffM2501 | have fun, thanks for giving us a shot. |
| 03:55.42 | chameleon | thanks for letting me :) |
| 03:58.33 | JeffM2501 | see I was suportive of the non C++ers :) |
| 03:59.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:07.20 | mithro | brlcad: how are your SoC things going? |
| 04:07.54 | blast007 | one possible "issue" with Qt on Windows: |
| 04:07.58 | blast007 | "Please note that the Open Source Edition of Qt will support the MinGW compiler. Visual Studio support and integration is provided with the commercial Editions of Qt." |
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| 04:09.16 | blast007 | I was just gonna download it and try it, but realized I'd have to set up a whole new build system ;) |
| 04:09.22 | brlcad | mithro: pretty good, how about yours? |
| 04:10.01 | brlcad | got any rfts takers? |
| 04:10.30 | mithro | brlcad: one at the moment |
| 04:10.39 | mithro | how many applications are you up to? |
| 04:11.07 | brlcad | makes me wish I was enrolled, that would be one of my submissions for sure .. and one for haiku :) |
| 04:11.14 | JeffM2501 | 7 |
| 04:21.22 | mithro | woot up to 10 apps :) |
| 04:29.12 | brlcad | cool, good quality too? |
| 04:34.36 | mithro | yeah most are pretty good quality |
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| 04:51.34 | Epyon|AFK | Anyone here? |
| 04:55.20 | eTangenT | hey, I'm having some weirdness in bzflag |
| 04:55.36 | eTangenT | when I fire a laser, it appears on my screen as though it's being shot from my left, and it's angling right |
| 04:55.40 | eTangenT | it isn't going straight. |
| 04:55.58 | Epyon|AFK | Anyone know how can I contact the SoC mentors? |
| 04:55.59 | eTangenT | but see, it still shoots straight |
| 04:56.09 | eTangenT | Epyon|AFK: someone will probably be around soon |
| 04:57.00 | Epyon|AFK | Ok, I'll wait a bit :> |
| 05:04.28 | blast007 | brlcad and JeffM2501 were around just a while ago |
| 05:04.41 | JeffM2501 | sorry was making a patch |
| 05:07.16 | Epyon|AFK | JeffM2501? |
| 05:07.48 | blast007 | Epyon|AFK: have a question about the SoC stuff? |
| 05:07.49 | Epyon|AFK | Okay, so I'm interested in GSoC, but with a non-listed idea. |
| 05:07.55 | blast007 | ok |
| 05:08.16 | Epyon|AFK | And I don't know wether I should even bother submitting it :) |
| 05:08.24 | blast007 | run the idea by us quick |
| 05:08.55 | JeffM2501 | have at it |
| 05:09.14 | Epyon|AFK | First let me say, that I only play BZFlag on the university, so I may have some things wrong here :/ |
| 05:09.59 | Epyon|AFK | As I understand, BZFlag worlds are either loaded from a mapfile, or generated by random scattering of objects, right? |
| 05:10.07 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 05:10.26 | Epyon|AFK | Is there a big need for pregenerated worlds? |
| 05:10.35 | Epyon|AFK | preprepared* |
| 05:10.43 | JeffM2501 | most servers use map files made by other users |
| 05:10.48 | Epyon|AFK | Or do most people play on the scatters? |
| 05:10.55 | JeffM2501 | random maps are rare |
| 05:11.10 | Epyon|AFK | Okay, so my proposition would be a proper random level generator |
| 05:11.21 | JeffM2501 | could be interesting |
| 05:11.34 | Epyon|AFK | Or actualy a suite of those. |
| 05:12.33 | JeffM2501 | not a horible idea |
| 05:12.40 | JeffM2501 | randoms are not used now cus they are booring |
| 05:12.44 | JeffM2501 | and people like themed maps |
| 05:12.46 | Epyon|AFK | Including but not limited to labirynths, cities of different flavours etc. |
| 05:13.07 | JeffM2501 | could be very interesting |
| 05:13.32 | Epyon|AFK | Also if needed including procedural textures, but I don't know the engines internals here. |
| 05:13.48 | JeffM2501 | it can load textures from the web |
| 05:13.54 | Epyon|AFK | If not possible, I can make all the needed textures myself. |
| 05:13.56 | JeffM2501 | tho we do have the ability for code to make a texture |
| 05:14.04 | JeffM2501 | it does suport that |
| 05:14.11 | JeffM2501 | we do it for the jamming flag |
| 05:14.12 | Epyon|AFK | Even better :) |
| 05:14.54 | Epyon|AFK | Randomness doesn't have to mean boring -- roguelikes and Diablo are proof ;] |
| 05:16.23 | Epyon|AFK | (probably nobody heard of roguelikes xD) |
| 05:17.32 | JeffM2501 | yeah that is a nice original idea. |
| 05:18.15 | Epyon|AFK | I've been tinkering with random map generation for a long time now, and I believe that it's something that any game can benefit from. |
| 05:18.31 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 05:18.34 | JeffM2501 | I say go for it |
| 05:19.24 | Epyon|AFK | Okay, I'll submit it then tommorow. |
| 05:20.12 | Epyon|AFK | JeffM2501, how do you see the chances of a positive reaction to such an app among the truly needed (proposed) ones? |
| 05:20.41 | brlcad | that's kinda interesting actually |
| 05:20.46 | JeffM2501 | prety good |
| 05:21.06 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:21.06 | JeffM2501 | it shows an understanding of the needs of the game. |
| 05:21.19 | brlcad | fairly novel thinking too |
| 05:21.44 | Epyon|AFK | Rogue was made in 1980, so the thinking is not so novel :P |
| 05:22.05 | brlcad | i mean novel from a "things to do to bzflag" approach |
| 05:22.15 | brlcad | not in general :) |
| 05:22.17 | JeffM2501 | I've seen some nice procedural geometry |
| 05:22.18 | Epyon|AFK | :) |
| 05:22.22 | JeffM2501 | it could work well |
| 05:22.44 | Epyon|AFK | Procedural Content creation will be my Master's topic. |
| 05:23.04 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 05:23.15 | brlcad | yeah, there was a great paper at siggraph last year about growing cities such that they actually account for various factors like locality, types of structures |
| 05:23.42 | Epyon|AFK | Based on L-Systems :) |
| 05:24.00 | brlcad | it wasn't an l-systems approach, that's what made it interesting |
| 05:24.15 | Epyon|AFK | CGA? |
| 05:24.16 | brlcad | more of an evolutionary approach than ruled |
| 05:24.21 | Epyon|AFK | http://www.vision.ee.ethz.ch/~pmueller/wiki/CityEngine |
| 05:24.30 | Epyon|AFK | You're talking about this one? |
| 05:24.40 | Epyon|AFK | L-Systems have the advantage that they're faster. |
| 05:25.32 | brlcad | oh cityengine was a different one, that was freaking sweet too |
| 05:25.39 | brlcad | forgot about that one |
| 05:25.52 | Epyon|AFK | The fastest method tough is tile-building based on a semi-L-System and present basic tiles. Used this approach on a prototype roguelike and it looked great while generating the dungeon in realtime. |
| 05:26.04 | Epyon|AFK | present=preset |
| 05:27.00 | JeffM2501 | ooo, you could finish off the API to let plug-ins define the world, then just generate it when the server starts up :) |
| 05:27.09 | brlcad | the one i'm thinking of reminded me of sim city with various sectors of the city, and the city was grown according to connectivity metrics, entity preferences, location, etc |
| 05:27.32 | Epyon|AFK | Oh yeah, I remember something like that.... |
| 05:27.37 | Epyon|AFK | JeffM2501, me? :D |
| 05:27.50 | brlcad | so residential areas near shoreline were highly valued and fluorished, so long as they weren't near industrial, etc |
| 05:27.59 | JeffM2501 | sure as part of it |
| 05:28.17 | JeffM2501 | our server side plugins can define about 1/2 of the map structures at load time |
| 05:28.24 | Epyon|AFK | brlcad, there's also the indev Introversion game :) |
| 05:28.25 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: it doesn't matter what your idea is, JeffM2501 will be sure to tell you how it could be a plugin :) |
| 05:28.26 | JeffM2501 | just have to finish off the rest of the api calls |
| 05:28.41 | JeffM2501 | a world editor can not be a plug-in :) |
| 05:28.48 | brlcad | aww |
| 05:28.55 | brlcad | sounds like abug |
| 05:28.56 | JeffM2501 | brlcad at least I'm not trying to put it on IRC ;) |
| 05:29.08 | Epyon|AFK | I know a person who would proove yop wrong on that :P |
| 05:29.33 | Epyon|AFK | But I guess he's a plugin himself ^^ |
| 05:30.59 | JeffM2501 | I had ideas to make the map come from an external app |
| 05:31.04 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: http://www.vision.ee.ethz.ch/~pmueller/wiki/Courses/SIGGRAPH2006 |
| 05:31.10 | JeffM2501 | so we could add new random generaators later |
| 05:31.16 | brlcad | I think it was "6" |
| 05:31.16 | JeffM2501 | or just rotate thru world files |
| 05:31.20 | Epyon|AFK | brlcad, that's the CGA |
| 05:31.22 | JeffM2501 | but then I did the API and plug-ins |
| 05:31.27 | JeffM2501 | and that seemed like a cleaner way |
| 05:31.38 | JeffM2501 | just drop in a new random plugin and let it generate away |
| 05:31.41 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: it covered several CGA was 5 |
| 05:31.44 | JeffM2501 | it has accessto all it needed |
| 05:32.33 | Epyon|AFK | JeffM2501, but you agree that a fine random generator with "more realistic" content would be good :) |
| 05:32.53 | Epyon|AFK | Good, because some communities are... strangely closed... on such ideas :| |
| 05:32.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah totaly |
| 05:33.18 | JeffM2501 | it would be a nice option to what we have now |
| 05:33.19 | brlcad | especially ctf |
| 05:33.27 | JeffM2501 | we have few mapers that "get it" IMHO |
| 05:33.36 | JeffM2501 | so there are few maps that are realy good |
| 05:33.41 | JeffM2501 | and lot of crap maps |
| 05:33.50 | JeffM2501 | so you get a lot of servers with the same map |
| 05:34.04 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: from what you've indicated, I'd be highly interested |
| 05:35.27 | brlcad | *highly*, depending on what all could be accomplished, especially if it's good research material or just flat-out does a good job and making nice maps :) |
| 05:36.50 | JeffM2501 | the interweb killed DTRemenak.... that bastards.... |
| 05:36.56 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 05:36.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 05:37.07 | brlcad | ~kill DTRemenak|RDP |
| 05:37.18 | ibot | ACTION shoots a inverse neutrino gun at DTRemenak|RDP |
| 05:37.18 | gn00bie | interweb is teh evil |
| 05:37.18 | SportChick | ~defend DTRemenak|RDP |
| 05:37.24 | ibot | ACTION jumps in front of DTRemenak|RDP, taking all insults, violence and anything else negative thrown toward DTRemenak|RDP so that DTRemenak|RDP may live on in peace and quiet |
| 05:37.38 | brlcad | in pieces maybe |
| 05:53.40 | Epyon|AFK | JeffM2501, sorry I've been away for foodz :P |
| 05:53.53 | JeffM2501 | no big |
| 05:54.11 | Epyon|AFK | It would be good if I would get a list of those maps that are considered good. |
| 05:54.45 | Epyon|AFK | I could then try devise algos that would mimic the good features of those, and also could try to define what "good" realy means. |
| 05:54.47 | JeffM2501 | just check the most popular serers |
| 05:54.50 | JeffM2501 | and anything by louman |
| 05:54.58 | JeffM2501 | the forums have map releases |
| 05:55.02 | JeffM2501 | it's easy to see the diffs |
| 05:55.53 | Epyon|AFK | brlcad, I can guarantee you at least results that are good to watch :P |
| 05:56.36 | Epyon|AFK | Playability tough is something that has to be researched deeper, and if I would be admitted, that would also mean doing some polls around the community |
| 05:58.08 | Epyon|AFK | I once wanted to do a random map generator for Q3, but unfortunately that was quite hard due to the map format :) |
| 05:58.08 | L4m3r | mapping in itself is really a crap shoot |
| 05:58.34 | Epyon|AFK | (the precalculated lighting killed the idea ^_^) |
| 05:58.42 | L4m3r | too subject to opinion to define qualitative attributes for a "good" map |
| 05:59.02 | L4m3r | personally I think a lot of the really popular maps suck ;) |
| 05:59.15 | Epyon|AFK | I wouldn't ask such hard questions :P |
| 05:59.54 | L4m3r | the only thing I've really noticed is that gameplay gets you further than eye canduy |
| 05:59.57 | L4m3r | candy* |
| 06:01.00 | L4m3r | the rest is just finding a niche in the player community |
| 06:01.48 | L4m3r | IMO variety and versatility are the game's greatest strengths ;) |
| 06:01.56 | Epyon|AFK | I doubt anyone would argue with that :] |
| 06:02.15 | Epyon|AFK | and *variety* is my tagline in this case ;] |
| 06:05.18 | L4m3r | so, if you want do make a "good" random map generator, be sure to include a LOT of tweaking parameters and a few different modes/map styles for generation. |
| 06:06.51 | Epyon|AFK | Of course ;) |
| 06:07.40 | Epyon|AFK | The idea is also to present the more inlined people with the parameter files so they can tweak the generator to their will or use preprepared/shared parameter sets. |
| 06:08.03 | Epyon|AFK | But a set of playable and fun parameter sets would be prepared by myself. |
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| 06:52.52 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: understandable as to the scope.. there's only so much afforded in 2-3 months |
| 06:54.16 | brlcad | i'd think you'd actually get a fairly high level of "noise" depending on whom you ask regarding what they like and don't like -- most like what they know |
| 06:54.48 | brlcad | or don't really like anything, or don't know what they like, etc |
| 06:56.45 | brlcad | there are probably basic criteria to a good map, depending on the map parameters -- there's definitely a sense of too little and too much (whether it be detail/complexity, eye candy, buildings, pyramids, map size, and more) |
| 06:59.22 | brlcad | Epyon|AFK: there is an interesting correllation between the maps and the world settings -- whether jumping is enabled or not, whether there are lasers, or invisibility, or a slew of other flags can extensively affect what makes for a great or horrible map |
| 07:00.31 | brlcad | ducati servers tend to be simple rico-friendly building structures mixed with various levels of open areas, FFA servers with lasers tend to have towers with visibility to distant snipable positions, etc |
| 07:03.25 | brlcad | if you could auto-generate a map based on the server settings themselves, that would be exceedingly interesting (probably some research paper angle in there too) |
| 07:15.34 | Epyon|AFK | I was away, and now I'm going to sleep, but I wrote down all your suggestions brlcad |
| 07:15.45 | Epyon|AFK | Thanks for the input :) |
| 07:27.23 | jude | quick question: by repeating sinusoids in a BZW file, are they being added to form a single periodic function? |
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| 07:31.54 | purple_cow | hm |
| 07:32.15 | purple_cow | does anyone know what the "Applications below this line are less likely to be accepted." thing means in the application dashboard? |
| 07:32.25 | purple_cow | what criteria puts something below it? |
| 07:38.36 | jude | another quick question: How exactly do the clampUp and clampDown functions work? Google and the man pages were not helpful, I'm afraid... |
| 07:39.50 | purple_cow | jude: where? |
| 07:40.08 | jude | dynamicColor object in BZW 2.0 |
| 07:40.12 | brlcad | purple_cow: it's a project discretion setting |
| 07:40.24 | brlcad | currently set to # of mentors |
| 07:41.08 | JeffM2501 | ahah.. direct 3 uses the left hand rule |
| 07:41.18 | purple_cow | brlcad: ahh |
| 07:41.40 | brlcad | "we're not likely to get more than we ask for" |
| 07:41.40 | purple_cow | and presumably as things are scored, the lower ones will drop down |
| 07:41.49 | brlcad | right |
| 07:42.00 | purple_cow | clever |
| 07:45.42 | purple_cow | someone needs to explain the application process a bit more to our friend brian, I think :P |
| 07:53.27 | Manu | wow 9 applications |
| 07:54.11 | jude | I still haven't added mine yet |
| 07:54.19 | jude | (still designing UI prototypes) |
| 07:54.22 | Manu | you too, that's good :) |
| 07:54.47 | jude | well, Google extended the deadline until March 26th...there's still time yet |
| 07:55.12 | L4m3r | jude: iirc clampup and clampdown hold the sinusoid at maximum and minimum, respectively |
| 07:55.18 | L4m3r | I could be completely wrong though |
| 07:56.13 | jude | l4m3r: thanks |
| 07:56.22 | Manu | brlcad: awake? |
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| 09:53.54 | Dessy | hi all |
| 09:53.54 | Dessy | hi LongDon |
| 10:00.28 | LongDon | hi Dessy |
| 10:01.26 | daxxar | Ah, there, my application has been started. :) |
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| 10:22.37 | daniel_jackson | hello all |
| 10:23.06 | daniel_jackson | anyone built slayer's Uselessmine plugin from the source? |
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| 10:27.40 | daniel_jackson | hey |
| 10:28.23 | Manu | daniel_jackson: where are your application details, you only gave us a curriculum |
| 10:29.09 | daniel_jackson | well I didn't know weither to do it resume style or interview stylw |
| 10:29.14 | daniel_jackson | style |
| 10:29.47 | daniel_jackson | but I thank you for responding so quickly, what is you actually need? |
| 10:30.27 | daniel_jackson | I took pieces from resume and posted them |
| 10:30.42 | daniel_jackson | you still there manu? |
| 10:30.49 | Manu | yes |
| 10:31.09 | Manu | you can get some ideas and goals here: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Main_Page |
| 10:31.37 | daniel_jackson | oh is that what your looking for a proposal? |
| 10:31.53 | Manu | are somethings |
| 10:32.16 | daniel_jackson | well do I need to resubmit? |
| 10:32.23 | Manu | or modify it |
| 10:32.27 | Manu | yes |
| 10:32.30 | daniel_jackson | ok I can |
| 10:32.48 | Manu | we don't need your curriculum, we need your application |
| 10:33.26 | daniel_jackson | oh well I took it as a job application not program application |
| 10:34.42 | daniel_jackson | you know on a personal not, I'm more of a hardware guy so I guess, I'm kinda scared to suggest an application, because I don't know a ton about programming |
| 10:34.51 | daniel_jackson | personal note |
| 10:35.51 | daniel_jackson | if your just looking for a application idea, than I yeah let me think about it then I can resubmit |
| 10:35.57 | Manu | daniel_jackson: Preparing an Application -> |
| 10:36.03 | Manu | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code |
| 10:36.47 | Manu | daniel_jackson: Ideas -> http://my.bzflag.org/w/Ideas |
| 10:36.58 | daniel_jackson | I saw them both |
| 10:37.05 | Manu | if you have a new idea, tell us |
| 10:37.10 | daniel_jackson | ok |
| 10:38.31 | daniel_jackson | I guess you know I love to help out especially with open source projects but its a different way of thinking for me because I look at the hardware mainly |
| 10:38.52 | Manu | but this is software |
| 10:40.38 | daniel_jackson | hey does it matter about using my own idea based off an existing topic? |
| 10:41.10 | Manu | no I guess |
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| 10:42.03 | daniel_jackson | ok I have some thoughts, but I really have no means at this point to roll the ideas out in code |
| 10:43.12 | daniel_jackson | let me go post them, thank you clarifing this |
| 10:43.40 | Manu | I'm glad to help you |
| 10:44.59 | daniel_jackson | can I, unofficially, tell you my idea right now since is it fresh in my head? |
| 10:47.11 | Manu | don't nee to tell me, just add it to whe wiki Idea section :) |
| 10:47.15 | Manu | need* |
| 10:47.55 | daniel_jackson | ok cool |
| 10:48.32 | daniel_jackson | do you guys do the grammatical editing when you want post the proposal? |
| 10:49.26 | Manu | in the wiki? |
| 10:50.49 | daniel_jackson | I see the ones by morph, thats all, and I'm trying to make mine a clear as his statements are |
| 10:51.25 | Manu | :) |
| 10:51.33 | daniel_jackson | but thanks again for the info, as GSOC or not I'm happy to help |
| 10:51.44 | Manu | thanks daniel_jackson :) |
| 10:51.48 | daniel_jackson | np |
| 10:52.14 | daniel_jackson | oh on another note, I'm trying to compile slayer's mine plugin |
| 10:52.58 | daniel_jackson | I'm surprised he didn't create a make file |
| 10:53.05 | Manu | hehe |
| 10:54.06 | daniel_jackson | like his pre-made .so wasn't capatible |
| 10:54.33 | daniel_jackson | he's using the boost c++ extenstion header |
| 10:55.12 | daniel_jackson | its giving me a headache anyway! |
| 10:55.30 | Manu | daniel_jackson probably it's because you can add the plugin to the plugins directory in the bzflag tree and modify the requires file to compile it |
| 10:55.52 | Manu | required files I mean |
| 10:56.02 | daniel_jackson | yeah |
| 10:56.24 | Manu | there is a newplug.sh script ;) |
| 10:56.37 | daniel_jackson | yeah I saw that |
| 10:57.04 | daniel_jackson | well does that create make files? |
| 10:57.47 | Manu | try the script ;) |
| 10:58.11 | daniel_jackson | ok |
| 10:58.19 | daniel_jackson | I opened it in vi |
| 10:58.35 | daniel_jackson | I saw what it does, thanks again |
| 10:58.43 | Manu | :) |
| 10:58.44 | daniel_jackson | I got to take off |
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| 12:32.55 | daxxar | brlcad: I submitted my proposal now. :-) |
| 12:33.14 | daxxar | Any comments (via the gsoc form) would be appreciated! |
| 12:35.07 | daxxar | Or any other mentors, but brlcad is the only one listed specifically as being interested in this subject. ;-) |
| 12:38.56 | donny_baker | daxxar: good luck :) |
| 12:39.12 | daxxar | donny_baker: Thanks. :-) |
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| 12:46.58 | ts | ~seen TD-Linux |
| 12:47.33 | ibot | td-linux <n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux> was last seen on IRC in channel ##essy, 1d 11h 53m 20s ago, saying: 'it will happen to you too'. |
| 12:47.33 | ts | ~status |
| 12:47.41 | ibot | Since Wed Mar 21 13:56:55 2007, there have been 39 modifications, 242 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 187 commands. I have been awake for 22h 50m 38s this session, and currently reference 112686 factoids. I'm using about 19692 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3985.68/330.81 child 0.04/0.01 |
| 12:57.26 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 12:57.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 13:00.31 | menotume | ~hapbir Chestal |
| 13:00.33 | ibot | ACTION sings a variant of Happy Birthday (to avoid royalty fees) to Chestal |
| 13:03.56 | menotume | every day is Ches' birthday :) |
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| 13:30.38 | TheRedBaron | oh dear |
| 13:30.45 | TheRedBaron | poor chestal is goign to age rather quickly |
| 13:44.31 | daxxar | But he ages gracefully, you can hardly tell :p |
| 13:52.31 | brlcad | daxxar: great, look forward to reading it |
| 13:53.26 | Manu | good morning brlcad :) |
| 13:54.08 | brlcad | mornin' |
| 13:55.31 | menotume | morning burlyman |
| 13:55.52 | Manu | brlcad: why are there three applications less likely to be accepted if they weren't scored? |
| 13:58.43 | brlcad | because we haven't ranked yet |
| 13:58.58 | Manu | but no one is ranked |
| 13:59.42 | Manu | and three are less likely to be accepted |
| 13:59.58 | Manu | that's why I am asking |
| 14:00.09 | Manu | brlcad: admin choice? |
| 14:00.10 | brlcad | yes, but there's a limit to how many we can handle |
| 14:00.40 | Manu | yes I understand it, but who excluded it? ;) |
| 14:01.28 | daxxar | Perhaps it's just by submittal date or some other predfined criteria? |
| 14:01.53 | Manu | daxxar: I can't find a time realation |
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| 14:03.35 | daxxar | Manu: Okay, strange. :-) |
| 14:03.36 | menotume | brlcad ranks ? |
| 14:03.51 | menotume | s/?// |
| 14:04.03 | Manu | menotume: is not time to rank yet :) |
| 14:04.19 | menotume | but, he ranks |
| 14:04.40 | Manu | I know he is admin |
| 14:05.34 | menotume | i mean, he REALLY ranks |
| 14:05.34 | Manu | but haven't heard why some were excluded (almost) :) |
| 14:05.34 | menotume | 'ranks' is an english slang for stinks :) |
| 14:05.34 | Manu | lol |
| 14:05.34 | Manu | :) |
| 14:05.35 | Manu | he rules :) |
| 14:06.10 | menotume | i hope he's i the shower |
| 14:07.17 | Manu | menotume: what I mean is there aren't private comments, I guess if any application is excluded, we can put a private comment |
| 14:09.59 | daxxar | Hrmm. I'm beginning to see flaws in my application. I hope I get a friendly mentor reviewing it and commenting it, so I get a chance to make amends. ;P |
| 14:10.21 | menotume | :) |
| 14:10.53 | menotume | ahh, headless client |
| 14:10.56 | Manu | the headless client... :) |
| 14:11.07 | daxxar | Is that a bad sign? :p |
| 14:11.28 | menotume | no, i'm just not up-to-spped on that one |
| 14:11.29 | TheRedBaron | akin to the headless horseman? |
| 14:11.36 | Manu | daxxar: nah, I just did /whois daxxar to find your application ;) |
| 14:12.12 | Manu | but it was in your IM too :) |
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| 14:12.17 | menotume | ohhhh, java, ewwwww |
| 14:12.20 | menotume | j/k :) |
| 14:13.55 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (n=kierra@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 14:14.27 | daxxar | Hey, you guys wanted RoboCode in your idea, and I've really been impressed with the RoboCode community and software after looking at it. |
| 14:14.41 | menotume | cool, i was just kidding |
| 14:14.43 | daxxar | And embedding Java could be pretty fun, I think. :) |
| 14:14.46 | daxxar | ;-) |
| 14:14.53 | menotume | i know java, but not RoboCode |
| 14:15.01 | daxxar | Yeah, forgot the ";-)" at the end of that line. :p |
| 14:15.06 | menotume | hehe |
| 14:15.11 | daxxar | (me, that is) |
| 14:16.00 | daxxar | Yeah, I knew Java, but never touched RoboCode. I browsed their wiki and their documentation and such when looking for inspiration for any of the BZF ideas. |
| 14:16.12 | menotume | ahh, gotya |
| 14:16.34 | daxxar | They have some cool competitions, and it seems they have a really good (open) community, sharing techniques and code for various AIs. :) |
| 14:17.00 | menotume | ahh, dats good |
| 14:18.19 | menotume | a lot has happened with Java since i worked with it (4-5 yrs ago now) |
| 14:19.00 | menotume | but, i liked it |
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| 14:20.50 | daxxar | Java? |
| 14:20.58 | menotume | yes |
| 14:21.32 | daxxar | I don't like the *forced* OO, but except for that it's okay. |
| 14:21.41 | menotume | :) |
| 14:21.50 | menotume | it was my first OO language :) |
| 14:22.03 | menotume | well, except for a little tinkering here and there |
| 14:22.58 | daxxar | I tried learning java when I was much younger, and also C++. Technically, PHP was my first OO-enabled language, but I learnt C++ before I ever touched the OO in PHP. |
| 14:23.13 | menotume | ahh |
| 14:23.20 | daxxar | I look back at my early PHP code and shiver, happy I have no remnants of them lying around. ;P |
| 14:23.31 | menotume | i know the feeling :) |
| 14:24.34 | menotume | got to run, good luck daxxar |
| 14:24.42 | daxxar | Thanks menotume :-) |
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| 15:06.21 | eTangenT | Alright guys, word on the street is that OpenLeague is dead. |
| 15:06.22 | eTangenT | :( |
| 15:14.30 | LongDon | Really? And i never played in it ;) |
| 15:15.26 | donny_baker | I thought OL was pretty strong, had a good core of support |
| 15:16.31 | TheRedBaron | ktl needs to play in gu.bzleague.com |
| 15:16.48 | KTL | what map do they run: |
| 15:16.51 | Chestal | tanks don't fly! |
| 15:16.59 | KTL | they dance! |
| 15:17.06 | gn00bie | TheRedBaron: congratulations to making it to bash.org |
| 15:17.26 | gn00bie | http://www.bash.org/?737124 |
| 15:17.35 | TheRedBaron | oh no |
| 15:18.03 | TheRedBaron | lol |
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| 15:19.10 | KTL | callsign not registered kicked ah that may be why i don't join that server |
| 15:19.43 | KTL | and thumper runs the map but nobody plays at it |
| 15:20.05 | KTL | with a voting system i would get it back in the top of the list grrr |
| 15:20.09 | Manu | KTL: the king of the hashmark's teleporters ;) |
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| 15:20.14 | KTL | indeed |
| 15:20.15 | donny_baker | KTL: what map is that? |
| 15:20.22 | KTL | modified mad city |
| 15:20.26 | KTL | heil hashmark! |
| 15:20.34 | donny_baker | that is a good one |
| 15:20.41 | KTL | wings destroyed it |
| 15:20.55 | Manu | it was a good map |
| 15:21.02 | Manu | for those years :) |
| 15:21.36 | KTL | at the moment there are no maps i feel at home |
| 15:21.46 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/AUTHORS: Not my callsign |
| 15:21.46 | KTL | i am strong in badgerking, but i don't like the map |
| 15:21.54 | Manu | KTL: you got outdated ;) |
| 15:23.50 | Manu | ts: updating yourself? ;) |
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| 16:25.48 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 16:25.50 | JeffM2501 | directX |
| 16:25.55 | JeffM2501 | d3d does it lefthand |
| 16:26.13 | donny_baker | hehe |
| 16:28.09 | gn00bie | vector products, \hat{x}\times\hat{y} = -\hat{z} |
| 16:28.15 | gn00bie | is left handed |
| 16:28.41 | L4m3r | I take it bzf is righthanded? |
| 16:28.45 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:28.46 | JeffM2501 | cus GL is |
| 16:29.19 | L4m3r | is it a problem for much more than maps? I'd assume that the game models could be converted easily |
| 16:29.29 | JeffM2501 | oh we can convert |
| 16:29.34 | JeffM2501 | that's no issue |
| 16:29.37 | gn00bie | well, right handed is the way to do it |
| 16:29.38 | JeffM2501 | it's just a lot of places |
| 16:29.58 | gn00bie | microsoft is full of retarded morons, but I suppouse that is not news |
| 16:30.02 | JeffM2501 | ether that or we have a lot of crufty right->left conversion code in the engine interface. |
| 16:30.08 | L4m3r | we could write a proggy to convert mesh maps by reversing the order of faces |
| 16:30.26 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, we can do that on load |
| 16:30.27 | L4m3r | and tweaking texcoords... ok that could get nasty |
| 16:30.30 | JeffM2501 | no need to make it harder |
| 16:30.36 | JeffM2501 | we can do it at engine time |
| 16:30.41 | L4m3r | ok |
| 16:30.43 | JeffM2501 | as we send in the geo, it's easy |
| 16:30.57 | JeffM2501 | it's just sad that it seems all the other engines went that route too |
| 16:35.42 | TimRiker | which route? |
| 16:35.52 | JeffM2501 | left hand |
| 16:36.32 | TimRiker | left handers are evil. everyone knows that. |
| 16:36.47 | JeffM2501 | yet they are the majority in this case |
| 16:37.29 | gn00bie | amen to that |
| 16:37.37 | JeffM2501 | that and 4.50 will get you a frapichino :) |
| 16:37.40 | TimRiker | is there a 3d interface on osx other than gl? |
| 16:37.47 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 16:38.04 | JeffM2501 | not anymore |
| 16:39.22 | JeffM2501 | just means if we go an engine route, we do some converstions, as high up as possible |
| 16:39.41 | JeffM2501 | OSG is probably still right hand |
| 16:39.50 | JeffM2501 | but it's less of an engine and more of a scenegraph |
| 16:43.54 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you arround? |
| 16:43.59 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, too? |
| 16:44.16 | Erroneous | hmm? |
| 16:44.31 | JeffM2501 | you see the SoC submission titled "position in bzflag"? |
| 16:44.41 | Erroneous | not yet |
| 16:44.48 | JeffM2501 | they have to submit a project right? |
| 16:44.59 | JeffM2501 | seems he's just asking to be included |
| 16:45.02 | JeffM2501 | no project |
| 16:45.05 | JeffM2501 | just stuff about him |
| 16:45.08 | JeffM2501 | he's a player |
| 16:45.13 | JeffM2501 | daniel_jackson |
| 16:45.28 | JeffM2501 | was gonna send him an e-mail saying he should actualy submit a proposal |
| 16:45.33 | JeffM2501 | if he wants SoC |
| 16:45.41 | Erroneous | yeah, he needs to say what exactly he's planning on doing |
| 16:45.43 | JeffM2501 | if he want's to just help us, then to submit patches. |
| 16:45.44 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 16:45.47 | JeffM2501 | I'm e-mailing him |
| 16:46.00 | Erroneous | if it's "miscellaneous stuff" then he should outline what miscellaneous stuff he wants to do :) |
| 16:46.20 | Erroneous | doesn't have to be a monolithic project, but it does need to have fixed goals |
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| 16:49.15 | JeffM2501 | I'm just worried that he's confused that this is how we get new devs |
| 16:49.49 | Erroneous | heh |
| 16:50.30 | JeffM2501 | he had posted on the fourms too, kind of "applying" to be a developer |
| 16:51.29 | ruskie | he might just want the fancy name if he hasn't submited any patches |
| 16:51.47 | JeffM2501 | I've not seen any of his code, or evedence of programing ability at all |
| 16:51.53 | JeffM2501 | but maybe he's just shy |
| 16:51.54 | JeffM2501 | dunno |
| 16:52.13 | brad | manu talked to him earlier regarding this ^^ |
| 16:52.26 | JeffM2501 | about his submission? |
| 16:52.50 | brad | ya |
| 16:53.05 | JeffM2501 | how did he respond? |
| 16:53.53 | brad | he basically said he would resubmit it ;) |
| 16:53.58 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 16:54.44 | ruskie | [11:42:03] <daniel_jackson> ok I have some thoughts, but I really have no means at this point to roll the ideas out in code <-- one of his comments |
| 16:55.02 | ruskie | he also mention him being more of a hardware person |
| 16:55.12 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 16:55.32 | JeffM2501 | well at least he knows then |
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| 17:08.28 | ts | Manu: Yep, who else sees with what callsign I play with? |
| 17:09.23 | *** join/#bzflag jwir3 (n=Jwir3@vector.dtc.umn.edu) |
| 17:09.27 | jwir3 | hey everyone |
| 17:11.16 | JeffM2501 | hello |
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| 17:13.17 | jwir3 | I am considering apply for GSOC with bzflag as a project. My project would be to help with the implementation of bzflag in crystal space. I am a proficient C/C++ programmer, and I know Crystal Space very well (been working with it for a while). However, I am new to bzFlag. I found the list of items still looking to be added/converted to crystalspace, but I was wondering if my lack of experience in bzflag would likely proclude me from participating. |
| 17:13.17 | jwir3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:13.46 | JeffM2501 | most applicants haven't done anthing in bzflag |
| 17:13.53 | JeffM2501 | so no, it's not a disadvantage at all |
| 17:13.58 | jwir3 | oh ok |
| 17:14.16 | jwir3 | like I said, I am very proficient in Crystal Space, so it's not like I don't know about the conceptual stuff |
| 17:14.24 | JeffM2501 | that is good |
| 17:14.46 | jwir3 | cool cool |
| 17:15.14 | jwir3 | I've been looking over the project website/documentation, and the project looks fascinating, so I'm definitely interested. |
| 17:15.24 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 17:16.06 | jwir3 | out of curiosity, what's the most common client platform? do you know? |
| 17:16.25 | JeffM2501 | windows |
| 17:16.32 | JeffM2501 | just over 1/2 of them |
| 17:16.43 | jwir3 | is linux next? |
| 17:16.43 | JeffM2501 | nix and mac split the last |
| 17:16.45 | JeffM2501 | rest |
| 17:16.46 | jwir3 | ah cool |
| 17:16.53 | JeffM2501 | last time we checked |
| 17:17.05 | JeffM2501 | linux is the common server OS |
| 17:17.56 | jwir3 | does the project currently have a specific standard (in terms of GL) that it supports right now? I mean, does bzFlag make sure that it's 100% compliant with say, the 1.3 GL standard, or does it vary? |
| 17:18.15 | jwir3 | I know that some projects want to make sure that users that don't have like 1.5 can still use the program |
| 17:18.16 | JeffM2501 | 1.1 |
| 17:18.18 | jwir3 | ok |
| 17:18.31 | JeffM2501 | our current graphics system is VERY simple |
| 17:18.42 | JeffM2501 | we just got off 1.0 support |
| 17:19.17 | jwir3 | well, hopefully, with crystal space it will make life MUCH easier for moving to different GL platforms, and even using multiple standards, depending on which the client supports |
| 17:19.42 | JeffM2501 | GL support was never an issue |
| 17:19.55 | JeffM2501 | EVERYONE supports 1.1 :) |
| 17:19.59 | JeffM2501 | cept may an old SGI |
| 17:20.19 | JeffM2501 | the reasons going to it are to make our code cleaner, and pick up features |
| 17:20.20 | jwir3 | true, but if in the future you wanted to move to say, 1.5 or 2.0, it would probably be easier |
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| 17:20.28 | jwir3 | right, that's what I meant |
| 17:20.37 | JeffM2501 | the features are not ones of the 3d API |
| 17:20.51 | [darek] | hi |
| 17:20.53 | JeffM2501 | we mean like shadows, lightmaps, more higher level concepts |
| 17:21.06 | JeffM2501 | multi-texture |
| 17:21.26 | JeffM2501 | cleanlness of the code and build system is the core concern with an engine |
| 17:21.35 | jwir3 | I see |
| 17:21.35 | JeffM2501 | as at the start, the end user won't notice much dif |
| 17:21.38 | JeffM2501 | as we'll have the same art :) |
| 17:21.43 | jwir3 | right right |
| 17:22.00 | JeffM2501 | if moving to an engine makes our code more cluttered, then it's worth is less. |
| 17:22.27 | JeffM2501 | one would hope a good engine integration would only remove code from the client app |
| 17:22.39 | JeffM2501 | and make drawing new things better/cleaner/easier |
| 17:22.59 | JeffM2501 | cus from a drawing side, it ain't that hard to draw meshes on a big plane :) |
| 17:23.08 | jwir3 | so, I want to make sure I understand - you're not as concerned with the implementation of the 3D aspects of the game in crystalspace, as the effects and 2D (hud, windowing, etc..)? |
| 17:23.29 | JeffM2501 | it should do all the same 3d we do now |
| 17:23.37 | JeffM2501 | and the same, or similar 2d |
| 17:23.42 | jwir3 | gotcha |
| 17:23.43 | JeffM2501 | and have the same type of window management |
| 17:23.48 | JeffM2501 | tho ours is simple |
| 17:23.56 | JeffM2501 | nix and mac use SDL so it's just "gimme window" |
| 17:24.08 | JeffM2501 | joystick is probably not a bit deal to get from CS |
| 17:24.15 | JeffM2501 | as our joystick stuff is prety cool |
| 17:24.21 | JeffM2501 | we even suport force feedback |
| 17:24.26 | jwir3 | cool |
| 17:24.28 | JeffM2501 | and we do our own sound mixing |
| 17:24.56 | ts | JeffM2501: How long do you think teaching the server the world would last? |
| 17:26.51 | ts | I'm wondering whether it would be a good task for GSOC |
| 17:27.00 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 17:27.04 | JeffM2501 | sending the map? |
| 17:27.18 | JeffM2501 | all we have to do is compress it |
| 17:27.20 | ts | No, validating collisions for example |
| 17:27.31 | ts | Like if a tank hits a building or not |
| 17:27.35 | JeffM2501 | oh, server side state. |
| 17:27.39 | JeffM2501 | yeah I dunno |
| 17:27.43 | ts | Basically porting World.cxx |
| 17:27.47 | JeffM2501 | tha'td be a hard one for a student to do alone |
| 17:27.57 | JeffM2501 | I dunno |
| 17:28.04 | JeffM2501 | cus it's a lot more then just that |
| 17:28.11 | JeffM2501 | it's also lag/network/sync |
| 17:28.14 | JeffM2501 | brb |
| 17:33.22 | ts | JeffM2501: I think all the other parts are too much to do |
| 17:33.58 | ts | but if the server knows the world, then it can verify the new positions from the incomming MsgPlayerUpdateSmall messages |
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| 17:37.51 | JeffM2501 | ts, maybe |
| 17:38.10 | JeffM2501 | but we can't relly on SoC to do every bit of development WE need to do |
| 17:38.13 | JeffM2501 | if you can think of a clean way to write it up, sure |
| 17:38.23 | JeffM2501 | but I think that will be a dificult task to write up |
| 17:38.30 | JeffM2501 | gotta go to target :) |
| 17:39.04 | ts | I fear I neither have the necessary competence nor the time |
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| 17:50.39 | jwir3 | JeffM2501: target is dynamite |
| 17:50.39 | jwir3 | I like it way better than walmart |
| 17:50.39 | jwir3 | hehe |
| 17:55.54 | brlcad | jwir3: glad to hear the interest actually, was hoping for a CS submission |
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| 17:56.22 | jwir3 | brlcad: yeah. I plan to submit an app, just want to make sure I have enough info to make it good ;) |
| 17:56.38 | brlcad | have you spoken with tupone at all? |
| 17:56.52 | jwir3 | no. |
| 17:56.58 | brlcad | k |
| 17:57.02 | jwir3 | why? |
| 17:57.28 | jwir3 | he's the one that's been heading up the CS development thus far? |
| 17:57.31 | brlcad | he's one of our core devs, and has been working on CS for several weeks now |
| 17:57.33 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:57.51 | brlcad | http://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client |
| 17:58.19 | jwir3 | yes, I saw that page. I'll drop him an email this afternoon - as soon as our network gets itself together again |
| 17:58.38 | brlcad | not necessarily relevant to you submitting a proposal, but you'd likely be working with him |
| 17:59.09 | brlcad | he's here on the channel, comes and goes -- probably better to just catch him in here |
| 17:59.31 | jwir3 | brlcad: well, maybe i'll catch him a little later then |
| 17:59.46 | jwir3 | I gotta run to give a lab midterm - I'll be back in a bit |
| 17:59.56 | daxxar | Hi brlcad :) |
| 18:00.03 | daxxar | Bye brlcad :) |
| 18:00.06 | brlcad | howdy daxxar |
| 18:00.06 | jwir3 | hehe |
| 18:00.07 | jwir3 | later all |
| 18:00.09 | brlcad | cya daxxar :) |
| 18:07.46 | JeffM2501 | ts, what I'm worreid about in puting some more of our general tasks in is, SoC ain't going to be over till august, if we want to ship before that and just bust one of those tasks out, we screw over the SoC student |
| 18:08.17 | JeffM2501 | we very well may ( and should ) release BEFORE SoC is done |
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| 18:20.48 | Epyon | JeffM2501, you're here? |
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| 18:21.22 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 18:21.45 | Epyon | I'll be submitting an application in the next couple of minutes :) |
| 18:21.49 | JeffM2501 | cool |
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| 18:33.20 | Epyon | Application submitted |
| 18:34.28 | ts | JeffM2501: If only World.cxx and a few functions from LocalPlayer.cxx is split up the network protocol will not be changed |
| 18:34.44 | JeffM2501 | ts, you don't get it |
| 18:34.54 | ts | JeffM2501: I know, it's more of a general task but no one seems to do it now |
| 18:34.57 | JeffM2501 | we may need to do that BEFORE the SoC is done |
| 18:35.02 | JeffM2501 | so it's not a good SoC task |
| 18:35.17 | JeffM2501 | if we do it as part of SoC, we have to wait till SoC is over before we can get it. |
| 18:35.40 | ts | True |
| 18:36.02 | JeffM2501 | we can't use SoC for a crutch for all things we just havent' found the time or effort to do in the past |
| 18:36.10 | JeffM2501 | we will still be developers during SoC |
| 18:36.54 | ts | However I think 2.1 should be turning into beta some time (meaning focussing on bug fixes) |
| 18:37.24 | JeffM2501 | we need to have that discussion |
| 18:37.34 | JeffM2501 | it should hit alpha before it hits beta ;) |
| 18:37.53 | ts | Isn't it already alpha? |
| 18:38.12 | ts | Alpha = concentrating on new features, hardly bug fixes |
| 18:38.16 | ts | at least for me |
| 18:38.26 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:38.43 | JeffM2501 | it's in development |
| 18:39.04 | JeffM2501 | alpha means we know what it's suposed to do, and we can test it ourselves to make sure the features are viable |
| 18:39.07 | JeffM2501 | and functonal |
| 18:39.09 | ts | For me it's always in development as long it is not dea |
| 18:39.10 | ts | d |
| 18:39.38 | JeffM2501 | after that is beta, where you are somewhat sure your ideas and concepts will work, and you open up to a larger group, and try to find real bugs |
| 18:39.46 | JeffM2501 | not flaws in feature design. |
| 18:39.56 | JeffM2501 | we still have many flaws in feature design |
| 18:39.57 | JeffM2501 | bots |
| 18:40.00 | JeffM2501 | speed checks |
| 18:40.07 | JeffM2501 | server death for water |
| 18:40.47 | JeffM2501 | those are worse then bugs, they will require some sort of refactor to fix |
| 18:40.47 | JeffM2501 | so they are to be done in the alpha stage |
| 18:40.47 | ts | That's why I say it is alpha but obviously we don't share the same values behind the words |
| 18:41.00 | JeffM2501 | your assumption is there is not a state that is not alpha, beta or release |
| 18:41.17 | ts | yupp |
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| 18:41.26 | JeffM2501 | dev -> alpha ->beta -> release -> mainteance |
| 18:41.38 | JeffM2501 | by your term one line of code is alpha ;) |
| 18:42.25 | ndim | Wow. |
| 18:42.44 | ts | I don't think so.. |
| 18:42.57 | ndim | The guy who wrote the autogen.sh such that it does not run configure immediately got something right. |
| 18:43.25 | ndim | bzflag is the first project I have come upon in a long time which gets that one right. |
| 18:43.53 | JeffM2501 | ts, then where is the line :) |
| 18:44.59 | JeffM2501 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage |
| 18:45.20 | JeffM2501 | we don't demostrate feasability of our all our features yet |
| 18:45.24 | JeffM2501 | as some are very flawed |
| 18:45.28 | ts | JeffM2501: If it's the first line of the project then it's alpha, if it is bug fixing after released, I would call it beta ;) |
| 18:45.29 | JeffM2501 | so we are pre-alpha |
| 18:45.45 | JeffM2501 | you need to learn about read development |
| 18:45.47 | JeffM2501 | real |
| 18:46.02 | ts | hrm |
| 18:46.20 | ndim | I recall a definition where alpha means that interfaces are still being figured out, and beta means the interfaces are frozen and work is concentrated on fixing bugs. |
| 18:46.24 | JeffM2501 | I think we are close to alpha |
| 18:46.39 | JeffM2501 | ndim, that is one thing, if oyu are an inteface based app |
| 18:46.52 | JeffM2501 | for us it's "features" |
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| 18:47.37 | JeffM2501 | we don't do roadmaps, so we don't have a list of features we have |
| 18:47.52 | JeffM2501 | but we do have features that are somewhat implemented, but can not be shown as working |
| 18:47.56 | ndim | BTW... is there anybody working on joystick calibration stuff? |
| 18:47.58 | JeffM2501 | they are still in development |
| 18:48.40 | ndim | I have the problem that -20%..+20% of joystick elongation is mapped to -100%..+100% of bzflag speed. |
| 18:49.13 | JeffM2501 | I know of noone activly working on it |
| 18:49.18 | ndim | OK. |
| 18:49.21 | ts | Tupone drives with joystick, IIRC |
| 18:49.31 | JeffM2501 | in fact that's the first time I've heard the problem |
| 18:49.46 | ts | but I've seen no work on it |
| 18:50.12 | ndim | ts: Looks like I'll be the one to scratch my itch then. |
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| 18:54.33 | ts | JeffM2501: Can users change mouse speed _and_ acceleration on Windows® with the default drivers? |
| 18:54.49 | JeffM2501 | I don't know |
| 18:55.04 | Bz_Win | I think only speed |
| 18:55.06 | JeffM2501 | I've not used the "default" driver in years |
| 18:55.28 | ts | Bz_Win: Tnx |
| 18:58.13 | blast007 | there is acceleration in the Mouse control panel on Windows |
| 18:58.32 | blast007 | hmm, or maybe not |
| 18:58.43 | blast007 | guess I don't have default drivers at home ;) |
| 18:59.25 | ts | My concern is about the inaccurate status of http://my.bzflag.org/w/Different_Mouse_Settings |
| 18:59.30 | JeffM2501 | few people use "default" mice |
| 18:59.47 | JeffM2501 | even the intelepoint driver does more stuff |
| 19:00.02 | donny_baker | ts: I think you are thinking of the "Enhance pointer precision" which is the acceleration |
| 19:00.11 | donny_baker | you can only turn it on or off |
| 19:00.24 | donny_baker | s/ts/blast007/ |
| 19:00.29 | blast007 | donny_baker: yeah |
| 19:00.58 | ts | JeffM2501: Heh, I never used 3rd party drivers on Mac OS X. |
| 19:01.08 | ts | The logitech drivers are really bad |
| 19:01.09 | JeffM2501 | ts, I didn't say 3rd party |
| 19:01.19 | JeffM2501 | I just said not default |
| 19:01.28 | JeffM2501 | my driver was made by the same people that made my OS |
| 19:02.29 | ts | ah, right |
| 19:08.48 | brlcad | ndim: thanks |
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| 19:38.03 | blast007 | brlcad: ping |
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| 19:46.39 | ndim | Hmm. Compiling CVS fails because of lots of unused params and variables... |
| 19:46.50 | blast007 | 2.0.x or 2.1.x? |
| 19:46.59 | ndim | CVS HEAD. |
| 19:47.02 | ndim | Whatever that may be. |
| 19:47.05 | blast007 | 2.1 |
| 19:47.16 | ts | since when does a compiler error on unused variables? |
| 19:47.31 | ts | even my gcc doesn't o.O |
| 19:47.31 | blast007 | ts: I think GCC can treat warnings as errors |
| 19:47.34 | ndim | ts: Since the default CFLAGS are -Wall -Werror? |
| 19:48.11 | ts | Well, it only warns me |
| 19:48.19 | ndim | I'm already fixing it anyway. |
| 19:49.32 | ndim | Hmm. And lots of variable/param declarations are shadowing the object's member variables. |
| 19:50.19 | ts | blast007: It was a joke. Code that runs perfect on other machines uses to error on my box |
| 19:50.34 | blast007 | ;) |
| 19:50.50 | ts | Same with Tupy's CS try |
| 19:51.15 | ts | but perhaps I set up my machines terribly wrong ;) |
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| 19:54.59 | brlcad | blast007: pong |
| 19:55.23 | blast007 | brlcad: pm |
| 19:56.14 | brlcad | am |
| 20:01.25 | Manu | brlcad: 12 items in the application list :) |
| 20:03.38 | brlcad | yep, good stuff |
| 20:03.58 | Manu | the last added is very original I guess |
| 20:07.35 | ts | Cross server communication sounds rather difficult. Imagine people from planet **** messenging people on other servers. Which language rule applies? |
| 20:08.39 | Manu | ts? |
| 20:08.47 | ts | yess? |
| 20:09.23 | Manu | what are you talking about ts? |
| 20:09.38 | ts | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Cross_server_communications_system |
| 20:09.56 | Manu | I mean th eRandom level generator plugin for Bzflag |
| 20:10.01 | Manu | the* |
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| 20:17.30 | daxxar | How do you guys usually handle applications? Do you give feedback in form of comments? If so, does the mentor who's responsible for the field comment on it, or all / any mentor who has an opinion? |
| 20:17.49 | *** join/#bzflag Caede (n=Caede@c-24-9-103-152.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.35 | Caede | Hello everyone, I've looked over the server documentation, but I can't seem to find the syntax for the password database file. Could anyone point me in the right direction? |
| 20:18.39 | Erroneous | any mentor who has an opinion may comment on your application, daxxar |
| 20:19.12 | daxxar | Okay. :-) |
| 20:19.44 | Manu | Patience is a virtue daxxar ;) |
| 20:20.22 | daxxar | Oh, I am patient, just curious. ;-) |
| 20:21.13 | daxxar | I mean, the biggest part of the impact my application is going to do is probably already done, any corrections I make based on comments will most likely be to either just tip the scales in one or the other direction, or to clarify some slight unknowns. :) |
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| 20:51.05 | Chestal | Caede: almost noone uses the local auth system anymore. I don't remember the format, but it should be pretty straightforard if you look at the file |
| 20:51.20 | Caede | There's no file included, is there? |
| 20:51.43 | Chestal | it's not really meant to be edited |
| 20:51.52 | Chestal | it's automatically read and written - if you really want to use it |
| 20:53.28 | Erroneous | yeah, it's all automatic |
| 20:53.41 | Erroneous | and you shouldn't really use local passdb, if avoidable |
| 20:54.01 | Erroneous | it's a pain and a security hazard for players |
| 20:54.12 | Chestal | Caede: but if you really want to know: I think it's just <user>:<pass md5> lines |
| 20:54.53 | Caede | Thank you |
| 20:55.36 | Caede | My end goal was to automatically be an admin on my small server that I occasionally host-- would that be better accomplished by the global registration server? |
| 20:56.56 | Chestal | Caede: it depends. There might be cases where you do not want to rely on global services. Then you can set up local permissions |
| 20:57.11 | Chestal | Caede: but still, you would register your user/pass via the in-game /-commands |
| 20:57.19 | Chestal | Caede: and not edit the passwd file yourself |
| 20:57.39 | Chestal | Caede: /register is the comamnd to look for I think. I barely remember that stuff |
| 20:57.49 | Chestal | and then there#s always the master password of course |
| 20:58.27 | Birdie | you have /register /identify and /password |
| 20:59.25 | Caede | Ah, okay. Thanks! |
| 21:01.14 | Erroneous | global users with local groups is the easiest to do |
| 21:01.32 | Erroneous | use a local userdb and groupdb, and let the global server take care of actual authentication |
| 21:01.49 | Erroneous | then people don't have to register with your server, they can use their global accounts |
| 21:01.56 | Erroneous | and you don't have to mess with setting up global groups |
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| 21:02.19 | Erroneous | less hassle for everyone |
| 21:02.22 | BearPerson | I remember registering my nick globally and locally so I'd still have something to fall back to in case the list server went down |
| 21:02.42 | Erroneous | though you're welcome to use global groups too, it does take a bit of time to get them set up |
| 21:03.13 | Erroneous | and some server ops prefer to retain full control of their groups |
| 21:04.00 | Erroneous | BearPerson: and did you ever have to actually use your local user? |
| 21:04.22 | BearPerson | maybe once |
| 21:04.43 | Erroneous | heh :) |
| 21:09.15 | Caede | Is there any way to load a new server configuration file without restarting it? |
| 21:09.39 | L4m3r | nope |
| 21:10.53 | jwir3 | would anyone be able to give some comments on an initial draft of a proposal for soc? It's available here: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Jwir3:csproposal It's pretty rough yet, but I'd kind of like some feedback as to if i'm on target or not |
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| 21:13.39 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: hi. I'm one of the folks that's looking at applying to gsoc with regards to crystal space integration |
| 21:14.06 | tupone_laptop | aww |
| 21:14.16 | tupone_laptop | I didn't know there is one |
| 21:14.30 | jwir3 | yeah, I haven't submitted my app yet |
| 21:14.48 | jwir3 | if you have a moment, do you mind looking over a rough draft, to see if I am on target? http://my.bzflag.org/w/Jwir3:csproposal |
| 21:14.55 | tupone_laptop | actually we are working, me and [darek] (giving some help) |
| 21:15.18 | tupone_laptop | have you read the wiki about that? |
| 21:15.21 | jwir3 | yes |
| 21:16.38 | tupone_laptop | had you some talk with [darek] ? |
| 21:16.47 | jwir3 | yes, I spoke with him this morning |
| 21:17.06 | tupone_laptop | any impression? |
| 21:17.51 | jwir3 | he seemed excited about having another person to work with, and I am really excited about working with a game project that has media already developed |
| 21:18.30 | Caede | Does my server have to be public to use the global registrations? |
| 21:19.00 | tupone_laptop | jwir3, did you know bzflag before ? |
| 21:19.15 | blast007 | Caede: sorta |
| 21:19.29 | blast007 | it has to use -public and -publicaddr |
| 21:19.43 | Caede | So it would appear on the public list server? |
| 21:19.51 | blast007 | but you can use this to make it not show for anyone: -advertise NOBODY |
| 21:19.53 | blast007 | (I think) |
| 21:20.00 | Caede | Ah, thanks, I'll try that |
| 21:20.04 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: no, that's probably the biggest negative about my application. I am not familiar with the codebase of bzflag, but I am very familiar with crystal space, and I am a quick study in terms of new software |
| 21:20.25 | blast007 | Caede: and if you get + or - signs by the names in the scoreboard, that means it's working with global auth |
| 21:20.41 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: I have downloaded and compiled the source, as well as looked through it here and there, but I am not as familiar as others |
| 21:20.44 | blast007 | and this will also require that it's possible for the server to be accessed from the outside |
| 21:20.45 | tupone_laptop | jwir3, I just meant if you know enough the playing rules |
| 21:20.58 | blast007 | (so it needs to have the router configured) |
| 21:21.27 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: I haven't had a chance to actually play in game, yet, no. I plan on playing a little bit this evening, to make sure I understand everything. |
| 21:21.53 | tupone_laptop | ok, good, mean while ... I'm reading your ... application |
| 21:22.13 | Caede | blast007: It seems that it's -advertise NONE, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction |
| 21:22.19 | blast007 | ah, ok |
| 21:23.19 | tupone_laptop | jwir3, maybe remove ode from the application for gSOC I meant |
| 21:24.16 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: yeah, sorry if it's a little choppy. It's somewhat difficult to find documentation, so the crystalspace_client page was pretty much all i had to work from. :( |
| 21:24.41 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: but I intend to revise it and make it a little bit easier to read/understand |
| 21:24.43 | tupone_laptop | and something is duplicated on your writing |
| 21:26.36 | tupone_laptop | I prefer a playable system, without ode, so I mean all options from menu active, unless something is useless, probably using the CS format configuration file to save settings, like full-screen, windows size, quality ... |
| 21:26.54 | tupone_laptop | CEGUI |
| 21:27.12 | tupone_laptop | all options from map makers applied |
| 21:27.59 | tupone_laptop | and leave ode and some change I want to do to network as a future improve, not in the task |
| 21:29.57 | tupone_laptop | lightmap? are still applicable for an outdoor world. Have to say that I'm a 3d novice, even if I know enough of bzflag codebase |
| 21:30.51 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: I guess that depends on whether or not the lightsource is pre-calculated |
| 21:31.13 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: are the lights in the worlds dynamic? or is it just textures applied to different meshes? |
| 21:31.25 | tupone_laptop | there is no static light, unless put there from mapmaker, and I don't know if they have this option |
| 21:32.03 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: yeah, ok - I meant adding the capability for pre-computing lights, but still allowing things to be dynamic in the sense that it's not just applied as a colored texture |
| 21:32.11 | tupone_laptop | the light that I know are the sun/moon/star (maybe only sun is a light) , and shots |
| 21:32.32 | tupone_laptop | and sun is realtime |
| 21:32.34 | jwir3 | tupone_laptop: do the shots light up the environment as the pass over? |
| 21:32.36 | jwir3 | oh ok |
| 21:32.39 | tupone_laptop | yep |
| 21:32.46 | jwir3 | ok |
| 21:33.15 | tupone_laptop | you better play with the current 2.0.8 (standard) and see |
| 21:33.28 | jwir3 | ok |
| 21:34.10 | jwir3 | so, your recommendations would be to omit parts about ode/network, and place those in possible future work? |
| 21:34.22 | tupone_laptop | you want to public the code only just before the final testing? |
| 21:34.53 | jwir3 | well, it will be available to everyone in CVS I assume, but what I meant was I wanted to give people an opportunity to give feedback |
| 21:35.09 | jwir3 | it'll be publicly available anytime as soon as I start coding |
| 21:35.25 | tupone_laptop | because one of my constraint is that the game should be "always" playable |
| 21:35.50 | tupone_laptop | well take always with grano salis |
| 21:36.52 | jwir3 | right right ;) |
| 21:37.10 | jwir3 | so, when you work on it, it's not on the main code trunk, though, right? |
| 21:37.22 | tupone_laptop | nope |
| 21:37.25 | tupone_laptop | is a branch |
| 21:37.28 | jwir3 | ok, right |
| 21:37.38 | jwir3 | so, do you mean the branch is always playable as well? |
| 21:37.52 | tupone_laptop | yeah, to review the change |
| 21:38.05 | tupone_laptop | I don't want to play the cathedral model |
| 21:38.14 | jwir3 | ah ok |
| 21:39.15 | tupone_laptop | Manu, did you see my new walls? |
| 21:39.15 | jwir3 | well, then the iterative process I have outlined should work really well, because it'll ensure that testing and debugging is done at every step, making sure the game is always playable |
| 21:39.15 | jwir3 | thanks for the input! |
| 21:39.15 | tupone_laptop | yeah |
| 21:39.17 | tupone_laptop | yw |
| 21:42.31 | brlcad | daxxar: any mentor that has an opinion |
| 21:44.54 | daxxar | brlcad: Yep, I got a reply from Erroneous, but thanks. :) |
| 21:45.14 | purple_cow | some of us are more opinionated than others =P |
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| 21:45.22 | daxxar | Hehe ;) |
| 21:49.05 | brlcad | purple_cow: have any peaked interest? |
| 21:49.22 | brlcad | we have enough applicants to press for at least one per mentor |
| 21:49.37 | brlcad | and variety |
| 21:50.22 | purple_cow | I'm most interested in either one of the OGRE ones or one of the editor ones |
| 21:50.37 | purple_cow | I suppose if it's the former I should probably learn the bzflag codebase again, though |
| 21:52.28 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:52.28 | JeffM2501 | do they tell us how many slots we get then we asign mentors to them? |
| 21:52.29 | brlcad | the mentoring is going to intentionally be just like the rest of our dev, i.e. preferably amongst everyone most of the time |
| 21:53.07 | brlcad | the mentor would just be a POC if nobody was answering, and they'd help write up their review |
| 21:53.29 | JeffM2501 | and responsible for the flogins |
| 21:53.30 | brlcad | JeffM2501: nope, we assign beforehand |
| 21:53.44 | JeffM2501 | ahh, so for each project we rank we put who'd do it? |
| 21:53.46 | purple_cow | IMO mentoring is more than that |
| 21:53.52 | brlcad | that's why there's a button "i'm willing to mentor this proposal" |
| 21:54.23 | JeffM2501 | you've always told me that buttons are evil |
| 21:54.31 | JeffM2501 | so I looked at the text fields |
| 21:54.39 | brlcad | i have? :) |
| 21:55.00 | JeffM2501 | you've told me to use make more then once IIRC :) |
| 21:55.04 | JeffM2501 | not as many times as others |
| 21:55.06 | brlcad | purple_cow: it can be more than that -- but it's not necessarily |
| 21:55.17 | purple_cow | well, I'm not saying it *has* to be |
| 21:55.41 | purple_cow | but I think we're a lot more likely to get future contributors out of it if the mentor is constantly there, reviewing, suggesting, helping... |
| 21:55.42 | brlcad | one of the intentions even as part of our submission writeup was that we were going to treat the students like any other developer that begins working on bzflag |
| 21:55.43 | purple_cow | etc. |
| 21:56.00 | brlcad | sure, that's all good |
| 21:56.09 | brlcad | i'm just saying, that should be the case for all the student |
| 21:56.31 | brlcad | not just for any given student-to-mentor pairing |
| 21:57.15 | purple_cow | yeah |
| 21:57.56 | purple_cow | btw, it would be pretty sweet to have all the students set up blogs and put up a planet for them |
| 21:58.00 | brlcad | it's simply not a carte-blanche for a mentor and student to disappear and code for a couple months -- should be integrated and visible to everyone, and interacting with the other devs throughout the process |
| 21:58.48 | brlcad | since when all is said and done, the intent is to integrate and maintain that work |
| 21:58.53 | brlcad | "put up a planet"? |
| 21:59.18 | danderson | an aggregator |
| 21:59.21 | purple_cow | http://www.planetplanet.org/ |
| 21:59.33 | blast007 | Captain Planet!! |
| 21:59.40 | danderson | brlcad: also, +1 on treating them like any developer. It gives them the "mentoring" of many people, and gives them the real deal |
| 22:00.05 | danderson | (tried on svn, it's what made me a full committer :) |
| 22:01.37 | purple_cow | well, they are "like any other developer", but there's also something more, I think |
| 22:01.59 | purple_cow | judging from previous socs, there's something of a community there, plus there's a higher expectation |
| 22:02.24 | danderson | building a feeling of SoC community is good |
| 22:02.35 | danderson | but build a feeling of belonging to the bzflag community first and foremost |
| 22:02.37 | brlcad | that community includes all our existing devs is all |
| 22:02.49 | danderson | they will do the SoC caste-building themselves mostly ;) |
| 22:02.53 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 22:03.24 | brlcad | not just an isolated mentor<->student relationship |
| 22:03.24 | purple_cow | right |
| 22:03.24 | purple_cow | we are in violent agreement |
| 22:03.27 | danderson | :D |
| 22:03.32 | brlcad | great! |
| 22:03.32 | danderson | love that expression |
| 22:04.38 | brlcad | mm.. time for BBQ'd sausages |
| 22:11.01 | TheRedBaron | ~BBQ brlcad |
| 22:11.03 | ndim | Hmm... build system bugs... |
| 22:11.18 | TheRedBaron | ~squish system bugs |
| 22:11.20 | ibot | ACTION squishes system bugs like a bug |
| 22:18.34 | Manu | tupone_laptop: not yet |
| 22:18.45 | JeffM2501 | anyone know the player "halo3" ? |
| 22:18.46 | tupone_laptop | :/ |
| 22:18.57 | Dessy | hm |
| 22:18.59 | Dessy | no |
| 22:19.04 | Dessy | why? |
| 22:19.31 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: know of him, do not know him personally |
| 22:19.33 | Dessy | jeffm do you have watch the patches? |
| 22:19.47 | JeffM2501 | Dessy, do I watch the patches? |
| 22:19.52 | JeffM2501 | I look at them sometimes. |
| 22:20.18 | Dessy | ya |
| 22:20.34 | JeffM2501 | sure I look at them |
| 22:20.37 | JeffM2501 | sometimes |
| 22:20.41 | JeffM2501 | when I'm realy bored |
| 22:20.52 | Dessy | ok :) |
| 22:21.52 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 22:21.58 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 22:22.40 | A_Heart_Attack | JeffM2501: i know halo3 |
| 22:22.41 | A_Heart_Attack | why? |
| 22:22.57 | JeffM2501 | what's he like? |
| 22:23.03 | A_Heart_Attack | why? |
| 22:23.11 | JeffM2501 | having some issue on the fourms |
| 22:23.19 | JeffM2501 | tho now he's repsonding to me and working it out |
| 22:23.29 | JeffM2501 | just took a while to get a responce from him |
| 22:23.29 | A_Heart_Attack | yeah sounds like him |
| 22:23.37 | JeffM2501 | AFTER I disable his posting |
| 22:24.37 | jwir3 | later all |
| 22:24.44 | tupone_laptop | cu |
| 22:24.55 | Dessy | cu |
| 22:24.57 | Dessy | ow |
| 22:25.15 | A_Heart_Attack | lol JeffM2501 |
| 22:25.23 | A_Heart_Attack | hes kinda laid back |
| 22:25.30 | JeffM2501 | young? |
| 22:25.33 | a_meteorite | that is why he probably gets in trouble |
| 22:25.36 | A_Heart_Attack | i think around 15-16 |
| 22:25.44 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 22:25.48 | *** join/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@74.101.116.253) |
| 22:25.53 | A_Heart_Attack | usual teenager |
| 22:26.07 | A_Heart_Attack | how so? |
| 22:26.21 | JeffM2501 | was overruled in a court |
| 22:26.26 | JeffM2501 | saying it's too restrictive |
| 22:26.31 | Bz_Win | aww, but it gets rid of annoying people :( |
| 22:26.46 | JeffM2501 | and that it's the parents job to protect the child, not the rest of the world. |
| 22:26.59 | a_meteorite | agreed |
| 22:27.31 | JeffM2501 | that's good news for site admins, as we are not held liable for storing the data |
| 22:28.07 | a_meteorite | in order for it to be official, wouldn't the law have to be repealed by congress or something? |
| 22:28.12 | JeffM2501 | so it's harder for a parent to sue us for storing data, cus the court will say "if you didn't want them sending the data, why didn't you block them" |
| 22:28.35 | JeffM2501 | it all comes down to legal defense |
| 22:29.06 | JeffM2501 | if that law is proven in court to be un-enforcable, prior judgement can be used to settle further disputes |
| 22:29.13 | JeffM2501 | it's a civil law, not a crimial one IIRC |
| 22:29.19 | JeffM2501 | no jail time, etc.. |
| 22:29.27 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 22:29.33 | Bz_Win | gosh, you must have really hated coppa to be into it this much ;) |
| 22:29.36 | JeffM2501 | IANAL tho :0 |
| 22:29.48 | JeffM2501 | Bz_Win, when you have to abide by it you read up a bit |
| 22:30.04 | JeffM2501 | I owned and stored the data for a while |
| 22:30.14 | JeffM2501 | so it was benifical for me to know what my liabilitys were |
| 22:30.43 | Bz_Win | I was joking! hence the ";)" |
| 22:31.56 | ruskie | so you mean they're finnaly gonna have parents take responsibilty for their own children? |
| 22:32.16 | JeffM2501 | that is what one superior judge ruled, so I hope so |
| 22:34.18 | Bz_Win | Why didn't I think of that, now? |
| 22:37.35 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-217-47-13.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:39.55 | ndim | Anyone feeling like committing more or less trivial patches to CVS HEAD? |
| 22:39.58 | ndim | http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-comment-unused-vars.patch |
| 22:39.58 | ndim | http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-focus-overrides.patch |
| 22:39.58 | ndim | http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-OOT-build.patch |
| 22:39.58 | ndim | http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-unused-params.patch |
| 22:39.58 | ndim | http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-use-unused-vars.patch |
| 22:40.13 | JeffM2501 | are those in SF? |
| 22:40.51 | ndim | No. |
| 22:40.58 | JeffM2501 | why not? |
| 22:41.06 | ndim | I have just written them. |
| 22:41.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:41.58 | JeffM2501 | all little build stuff? |
| 22:42.09 | ndim | The OOT is little build stuff. |
| 22:42.21 | JeffM2501 | so is the comments ;) |
| 22:42.28 | ndim | The other stuff is getting rid of compile warnings. |
| 22:42.29 | JeffM2501 | not all compilers complain |
| 22:42.33 | JeffM2501 | so biuld stuff |
| 22:42.49 | ndim | Ah. "build stuff" for me is "stuff in configure.ac and Makefile.am". |
| 22:43.24 | JeffM2501 | I can do them |
| 22:43.59 | ndim | Great :) |
| 22:45.39 | ndim | I hope the focus overrides are bug free. |
| 22:45.50 | JeffM2501 | what's that do? |
| 22:46.22 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97_ (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 22:47.03 | JeffM2501 | add _ before the word shot? |
| 22:47.11 | *** part/#bzflag wizart (n=nwizart@lvps87-230-8-217.dedicated.hosteurope.de) |
| 22:47.28 | *** join/#bzflag halo3 (n=48f12d9c@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:47.29 | JeffM2501 | or is there a conflict in names with a member? |
| 22:47.32 | ndim | "shot" is a member variable. |
| 22:47.35 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 22:47.38 | JeffM2501 | fair nuf |
| 22:47.45 | halo3 | hello all |
| 22:47.46 | JeffM2501 | I'll go over that one, as it was my code |
| 22:47.49 | JeffM2501 | hello |
| 22:48.00 | ndim | JeffM2501: Perhaps that may be named intentionally. |
| 22:48.10 | *** join/#bzflag mithro (n=tim@lester.mithis.com) |
| 22:48.12 | JeffM2501 | probalby not :) |
| 22:48.15 | ndim | So as to avoid accidentally accessing the member var. |
| 22:48.18 | JeffM2501 | I screw that up all the time |
| 22:48.26 | ndim | gcc complained. |
| 22:48.30 | ndim | That was all. |
| 22:48.31 | ndim | :) |
| 22:48.31 | JeffM2501 | as it should have |
| 22:48.34 | JeffM2501 | I'll go over it |
| 22:51.51 | ndim | JeffM2501: Perhaps "the_shot" would be a better name than "_shot". |
| 22:52.11 | JeffM2501 | naw, _ is fine |
| 22:52.14 | ndim | Identifiers starting with underscores are sometimes frowned upon. |
| 22:52.19 | JeffM2501 | mehh |
| 22:52.40 | ndim | :) |
| 22:52.55 | blast007 | tehShot |
| 22:55.46 | Chestal | hmm, what is the other shot variable it hides? |
| 22:55.52 | ndim | And a sixth patch: http://bzflag.lauft.net/bzflag-handle-all-switch-cases.patch |
| 22:55.58 | ndim | Chestal: class member. |
| 22:56.10 | Chestal | maybe I must update |
| 22:56.26 | ndim | Chestal: Or, in the cases of the "player" params, it is a global variable. |
| 22:56.28 | ndim | IIRC. |
| 22:56.39 | ndim | It has been an hour since I wrote the stuff :) |
| 22:57.26 | Chestal | I get the 'player' shadow, but not shot |
| 22:57.43 | Chestal | and I wonder where that player comes from, awfully generic name for a glocal |
| 22:58.09 | Chestal | and yes, _I_ frown upon leading underscores in general :-) |
| 22:58.34 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 22:58.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 23:00.51 | ndim | Chestal: gcc (GCC) 4.1.1 20070105 (Red Hat 4.1.1-51) |
| 23:01.41 | Chestal | ndim: uhm, member of what? LocalPlayer? |
| 23:01.43 | ndim | BTW... does CVS head work on the usual servers? |
| 23:02.00 | ndim | Chestal: No idea. gcc complained. Let me check :) |
| 23:02.13 | Chestal | eh, this is about HEAD/2.1, yes? |
| 23:02.24 | ndim | Chestal: CVS HEAD. |
| 23:02.27 | JeffM2501 | ndim, no |
| 23:02.33 | JeffM2501 | head is incompatable |
| 23:02.37 | JeffM2501 | with 2.0.x |
| 23:02.48 | ndim | JeffM2501: Ah. That means I'll have to do backports of that stuff. And of my joystick things. |
| 23:02.54 | JeffM2501 | hence the minor version upgrade to 2.1 |
| 23:02.58 | JeffM2501 | ndim, 2.0.x is dead |
| 23:03.01 | JeffM2501 | no mor releases of it |
| 23:03.25 | Chestal | Jeff keeps saying that :-) |
| 23:03.46 | JeffM2501 | you plan on doing one Chestal ? |
| 23:03.53 | ndim | JeffM2501: Maybe... but I still need to test my joystick adjustment stuff in real gameplay. |
| 23:04.04 | JeffM2501 | as far as I know we want to do our next release as 2.2 |
| 23:04.05 | Chestal | I see no harm in doing a last maintenance release. There are important fixes in bzfs code AFAIR? |
| 23:04.11 | JeffM2501 | most servers can build |
| 23:04.13 | JeffM2501 | and have those fixes |
| 23:04.21 | ndim | ServerLink.cxx:310: warning: ignoring return value of ‘size_t fwrite(const void*, size_t, size_t, FILE*)’, |
| 23:04.22 | JeffM2501 | the important servers anyway |
| 23:04.24 | ndim | Hmm. Lots of these. |
| 23:04.39 | Chestal | ndim: is this with -W? |
| 23:04.48 | ndim | Chestal: That is with -Wextra now :) |
| 23:04.53 | Chestal | uuh |
| 23:04.59 | ndim | Still, I think that one in particular is useful. |
| 23:05.26 | ndim | Ignoring fwrite return value mostly means trouble. |
| 23:06.41 | ndim | cflags="-O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wextra -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m32 -march=i686 -mtune=generic -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -Wno-unused-variable -Wno-unused-parameter" |
| 23:06.55 | ndim | make CFLAGS="$cflags" CXXFLAGS="$cflags" |
| 23:07.01 | ndim | That is my usual test case :) |
| 23:07.23 | Chestal | well, what would you do if fwrite returns less than expected? hard to recover from that in general |
| 23:07.41 | Chestal | bz does not do a lot of checking for nasty system errors anyway |
| 23:08.08 | ndim | Chestal: Abort. Silently ignoring errors will just result in hard to find bugs much later in the code. |
| 23:08.50 | Chestal | my guess is that msot of the code that uses fwrite has larger problems :-) |
| 23:09.41 | Chestal | e.g. the server list cache read code trutsts that the fiel format is intact |
| 23:11.00 | ndim | :) |
| 23:11.47 | Chestal | ah, indeed, base class Player has shotType |
| 23:13.15 | *** join/#bzflag quantumdot (n=Juan@about/essy/Charm/quantumdot) |
| 23:18.54 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: Wall can be built from userTexture now |
| 23:38.22 | Caede | Awesome |
| 23:40.15 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:48.17 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 23:51.31 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: don't need the player record. |
| 23:51.31 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: zap flags on a restart |
| 23:51.31 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/plugins/ (SAMPLE_PLUGIN/Makefile.am serverControl/Makefile.am): top_builddir not srcdir |
| 23:55.11 | *** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 23:55.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.19 | *** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kalen@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 23:57.08 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Pyramids are in. Still need to do an uv correction, but seems good already |
