| 00:03.21 | lodxcol | while you're paused, you lose your flag after a certain amount of time |
| 00:03.31 | lodxcol | is this a server thing or client? |
| 00:04.06 | blast007 | server |
| 00:04.17 | lodxcol | is there a variable of some sort? |
| 00:04.59 | blast007 | _pauseDropTime |
| 00:05.04 | lodxcol | ah ok |
| 00:05.21 | blast007 | default is 15 |
| 00:11.15 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:b973:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 00:11.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:17.00 | delusional | constitution, i tried to do that, with the racetoseven plugin |
| 00:17.25 | delusional | last i checked, the plugin still worked with 2.0.8, though it was designed for 2.0.4 |
| 00:18.17 | delusional | all matches are immediately reported, your concept goes much further, though |
| 00:23.07 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:26.12 | ep | I just built the client on linux and can run it from the src directory. Now I need to install it with "sudo make install? What does this do and how do I unistall it in the future? Any advantage do doing this stuff manually? |
| 00:26.43 | ep | Mosty I install from packages, noob question i know. |
| 00:28.29 | bryjen | run it from the top level (the one with the configure file) with ./src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 00:29.32 | bryjen | the install puts the bzflag, bzfs, and bzadmin binaries in /usr/local/bin and the data in /usr/local/share/bzflag iirc |
| 00:31.25 | ep | how do you uninstall it |
| 00:32.27 | bryjen | make uninstall ? |
| 00:32.27 | quantumdot | ep make install will put it in /usr/local/bin as bryjen said |
| 00:32.41 | bryjen | or delete stuff manually |
| 00:33.20 | AAA_awright | there isn't that many places it is installed to delete |
| 00:33.38 | quantumdot | to uninstall you can just delete those two dirs |
| 00:33.40 | AAA_awright | there is a list in the man page... somewhere... |
| 00:34.02 | bryjen | gah, don't delete /usr/local/bin. it may have other stuff in it. |
| 00:34.29 | quantumdot | ep those to dirs are the only ones touched during the install, so it is safe to remove them to unstall |
| 00:34.40 | quantumdot | i meant the file :) |
| 00:36.26 | ep | Just curious generally, foggy on this point. Seem ackward to have to keep the make and config files around to uninstall. Bzflag doesn't do much, but other software installs might. |
| 00:37.44 | quantumdot | ep this is not so strange, many people would keep the source after manual install |
| 00:38.10 | quantumdot | this you can avoid by doing packet install via apt or rpm |
| 00:38.42 | quantumdot | so you can choose not to keep the sources after installing a packet |
| 00:39.32 | quantumdot | packets are simply installed/removed with a command |
| 00:40.19 | quantumdot | for source installs you would want to have the source |
| 00:40.49 | ep | keep the sources is cool. but can i just keep the original tarball or do i have to keep all the auto generated config files (and make file if its generated) I dont know.e original tarball i downloaded. |
| 00:41.37 | ep | that didn't parse to well, sorry |
| 00:42.54 | ep | i get the idea |
| 00:43.42 | quantumdot | you would need the source in a dir, not compilation is needed |
| 00:43.47 | *** part/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:44.21 | quantumdot | so you can keep the tar and do tar xvf so you have the make files |
| 00:44.44 | quantumdot | then run make uninstall |
| 00:45.28 | ep | thanks for the tips! |
| 00:49.19 | quantumdot | ep here i found some tips, a guy had wondered the same before you :) http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=230225 |
| 00:49.56 | ep | thanks, i'll read it over |
| 01:04.09 | Constitution | delusion: just got your message, thanks |
| 01:04.09 | Constitution | delusional, that is |
| 01:08.04 | delusional | you need just a bit of php to make it work, on the web side |
| 01:10.00 | *** join/#bzflag Eclipsor (n=Landon@hav1-dsl-64-71-213-20.havilandtelco.com) |
| 01:10.19 | Constitution | hmmm, k |
| 01:14.02 | *** part/#bzflag Eclipsor (n=Landon@hav1-dsl-64-71-213-20.havilandtelco.com) |
| 01:19.45 | *** join/#bzflag danderson (n=dave@appart.bulix.org) |
| 01:19.59 | danderson | hi all. |
| 01:21.11 | *** join/#bzflag const_bzflag (n=Constitu@24-119-181-149.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:26.18 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal_bzf (n=Hannibal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:21.14 | blast007 | hi danderson |
| 02:44.45 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 02:47.17 | uso | any viper admin awake? |
| 02:47.29 | SportChick | uso: I am |
| 02:47.44 | uso | probably a cheater, "here i am" |
| 02:47.48 | SportChick | ok |
| 02:48.04 | uso | thank you |
| 02:49.03 | SportChick | uso: np, but he's stopped, probably once he saw the @ |
| 02:49.19 | uso | i think so |
| 02:51.15 | *** join/#bzflag gl2tosl2 (n=leif@71-215-255-135.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 02:51.47 | gl2tosl2 | hello |
| 02:52.48 | gl2tosl2 | I'm looking at google SoC stuff and saw this referenced on the bzflag page |
| 02:54.14 | blast007 | yup |
| 02:54.33 | gl2tosl2 | the headless AI project caught my eye |
| 02:55.30 | SportChick | uso: I am following him nd seeing odd behavior, but my lag is quite high - so it's entirely possible all I see is lag |
| 02:57.11 | spldart | How can I join as observer and select him to follow? |
| 02:57.27 | spldart | can't remember the keyboard shortcuts |
| 02:57.45 | *** join/#bzflag Joss (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 02:58.08 | Rawk | spldart: I don't think you can select him unless he has the top score |
| 02:58.19 | spldart | .... thought there was a way |
| 02:58.27 | spldart | I'mm go try |
| 03:00.54 | spldart | they took off |
| 03:01.04 | spldart | :-( |
| 03:01.30 | blast007 | gl2tosl2: not sure if any of the devs are here/awake right now ;) |
| 03:01.38 | gl2tosl2 | oh |
| 03:01.50 | SportChick | gl2tosl2: hang around or try back in a while |
| 03:01.51 | gl2tosl2 | is there a timeframe when they are usually active? |
| 03:03.27 | Rawk | spldart: here http://rafb.net/p/58tt1u68.html |
| 03:04.40 | danderson | so, is cheating still a big problem in bzflag? |
| 03:05.12 | danderson | istr a couple of years back, it was an issue because of lack of server policing. But I'm sure it's gotten much better now?... |
| 03:06.44 | brlcad | howdy Joss |
| 03:07.02 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: woot, great |
| 03:07.10 | Joss | hello brlcad |
| 03:07.26 | spldart | thankies |
| 03:07.27 | danderson | brlcad: also, hi! Congratz on getting a slot in SoC :) |
| 03:07.38 | brlcad | heya danderson |
| 03:07.50 | brlcad | thanks! |
| 03:08.14 | brlcad | ~sushi SportChick |
| 03:08.36 | SportChick | \o/ |
| 03:08.37 | uso | spldart: try F7 and F8 :) |
| 03:08.44 | SportChick | brlcad: tim needs to restart jbot :( |
| 03:08.50 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:09.18 | brlcad | danderson: we're a bit excited by it as well ;) |
| 03:09.28 | danderson | heh |
| 03:09.31 | danderson | brlcad: many applicants? |
| 03:09.34 | spldart | cheating is always a problem when game state is clientside but various changes to current code and moreso stuff to new code are furthering the ongoing battle against unique C++ game resources. :-p |
| 03:10.04 | brlcad | danderson: a few, still a bit early I gather |
| 03:10.33 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: any questions about the task -- that's one of my interest ideas, fwiw |
| 03:11.31 | gl2tosl2 | I do have a few |
| 03:12.05 | brlcad | SportChick: well, I did return home with some sushi, so here have some ;) |
| 03:12.18 | SportChick | brlcad: gladly! |
| 03:12.47 | spldart | sue shee x-P |
| 03:14.34 | gl2tosl2 | is this the appropriate place for such questions, or would it work better in a private chat? |
| 03:14.49 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: nope here's just fine |
| 03:15.24 | brlcad | don't be shy, speak up and ask -- you'll likely get a variety of feedback if any other of the devs are awake ;) |
| 03:15.33 | gl2tosl2 | would the main focus be on the scriptable part? |
| 03:15.57 | brlcad | the focus can be whichever aspect you want it to be |
| 03:16.22 | gl2tosl2 | I haven't dug into your sourceode yet, but I assume there are underlying tools for the normal application type worries. |
| 03:16.27 | brlcad | that's just an area of development that has several aspects of improvement |
| 03:17.05 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: actually, there's quite a bit of work that has gone on creating a headless client |
| 03:17.27 | brlcad | it's not clean, but there's some parts for it already in cvs that support it, in src/bzrobots |
| 03:18.03 | brlcad | that was part of the efforts of a university that's been using bzflag for their AI course, but it's very rudimentary, and even everything that made it into CVS isn't complete iirc |
| 03:18.16 | gl2tosl2 | nice |
| 03:18.38 | brlcad | but overall, the task that I had in mind was basically to clean that up, become familiar with it, and make it production-usable |
| 03:18.53 | gl2tosl2 | so it's really a 3 parter> |
| 03:18.54 | gl2tosl2 | ? |
| 03:19.06 | gl2tosl2 | Depending on how far along that is |
| 03:19.13 | gl2tosl2 | 1. Make headless client functional |
| 03:19.13 | brlcad | ideally with a compile-time API (ala robocode) and a scripting api that sits on top |
| 03:19.34 | gl2tosl2 | 2. api |
| 03:19.45 | gl2tosl2 | so you want to be able to have a compiled bot? |
| 03:19.49 | gl2tosl2 | and a scripted bot? |
| 03:19.54 | danderson | fwiw |
| 03:19.57 | brlcad | either/both |
| 03:20.09 | danderson | I kinda liked the API that RealTimeBattle had. |
| 03:20.21 | gl2tosl2 | I'm not familiar with that |
| 03:20.22 | brlcad | danderson: link? |
| 03:20.27 | danderson | basically, a hub program booted your AI program, and they communicated through stdin/stdout |
| 03:20.41 | danderson | the hub sent events through stdin, and the AI responded with commands on stdout |
| 03:20.49 | danderson | brlcad: dead project, unfortunately :( |
| 03:20.55 | brlcad | robocode's merely one of the most popular with loads of classwork that's gone into it.. not merit of the java code itself |
| 03:20.59 | brlcad | danderson: ahh |
| 03:21.01 | brlcad | shame |
| 03:21.03 | danderson | the stdin/stdout API is not the best in the world, but it does let you implement AIs in just about anything |
| 03:21.09 | gl2tosl2 | well |
| 03:21.21 | danderson | (and write higher level wrappers in interesting languages, to abstract the pipes away) |
| 03:21.27 | brlcad | that's pretty much what the scripting interface would give you |
| 03:21.43 | gl2tosl2 | I have worked on a relevant project before |
| 03:21.53 | gl2tosl2 | it was remote/automatic control of an application |
| 03:21.57 | danderson | nice. |
| 03:22.06 | brlcad | depending on the scripting language you went with of course, but you could easily integrate that on top |
| 03:22.18 | danderson | brlcad: with the right maps, I could see such an AI being used at my university |
| 03:22.20 | gl2tosl2 | we ended up creating a text interface, from there pipes and tcp were minor details |
| 03:22.47 | danderson | give the tanks the ability to communicate in some restricted sense, and it could be used as a platform for the multi-agent systems course :) |
| 03:22.54 | gl2tosl2 | I don't know what kind of data bzflag would need to move around though |
| 03:23.23 | brlcad | most of the game logic is readily available to the game clients |
| 03:23.36 | brlcad | historically, *all* of it was available |
| 03:24.04 | brlcad | though we've been migrating more and more to the server for security/abuse |
| 03:25.31 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: so sounds like you have a grasp .. 3-parter does sound about right, most of the detail is in 2 and 3 -- what API and what scripting/command/control interface |
| 03:26.07 | gl2tosl2 | well, if done properly, the scripting interface can be more of a plugin style thing |
| 03:26.29 | brlcad | you could wimp out on 2 and just modify data directly instead of formulating a clean API layer, but I think that would actually help implementation |
| 03:26.40 | gl2tosl2 | it usually does :) |
| 03:27.53 | gl2tosl2 | I would guess the best way to focus would be on 2,2.5 |
| 03:27.58 | gl2tosl2 | api and the plugin interaction |
| 03:28.34 | gl2tosl2 | get 1 or maybe 2 languages working |
| 03:28.36 | danderson | brlcad: I would think most of it would continue to be available on the client, esp. for dead reckoning |
| 03:28.50 | danderson | but, obviously, draconian sanity checking server side |
| 03:28.51 | gl2tosl2 | but with a clear documentation of how to expand |
| 03:30.11 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: while I agree that it's ripe for multiple scripting languages .. it's a bit much to involve more than one in the scope of these two/three months -- if you got just steps 1 and 2, there will be trilled kids and teachers .. each interface on 3 is gravy ;) |
| 03:30.14 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal_bzf (n=Hannibal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:30.29 | gl2tosl2 | right |
| 03:30.30 | gl2tosl2 | that |
| 03:30.35 | gl2tosl2 | 's what I was trying to say |
| 03:30.46 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 03:30.56 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/hannibal) |
| 03:30.59 | brlcad | danderson: actually DR is one of the critical pieces that is moving to the server, having traditionally been in the client only (clients decided if they died, not server) |
| 03:31.09 | brlcad | now it'll still be in both, but server is authoritative |
| 03:31.22 | danderson | brlcad: oh, sure, server should be authoritative for everything |
| 03:31.46 | danderson | what I mean is that the logic still has to be in the client, if you want to be able to DR while the link to the server is lagging |
| 03:32.42 | brlcad | danderson: so you're applying too? :) |
| 03:32.49 | brlcad | thought you worked for 'the man' already |
| 03:32.54 | danderson | I don't any more |
| 03:32.59 | danderson | as of last month :( |
| 03:33.03 | danderson | but, oh well. |
| 03:33.10 | danderson | but in any case, no, not applying |
| 03:33.13 | danderson | already a mentor for svn |
| 03:33.14 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:33.20 | danderson | and hopefully back at the man's this summer :) |
| 03:34.00 | *** part/#bzflag Hannibal_bzf (n=Hannibal@unaffiliated/hannibal) |
| 03:34.07 | danderson | but, interested in what soc will bring to bzflag |
| 03:34.19 | danderson | (and how I can 'sell' it as an AI platform to my university :P |
| 03:34.21 | brlcad | ahh, likewise |
| 03:35.17 | brlcad | here's one of the most advanced groups that have done a lot of AI work with bzflag for several years now: http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/ |
| 03:35.54 | brlcad | one of their instructors is a dev now, and is who's responsible for the portions that have been integrated |
| 03:36.13 | brlcad | but none of it is still in production use, nor is the api cleaned up, etc |
| 03:36.36 | brlcad | outside of their classroom environment of course |
| 03:36.47 | gl2tosl2 | I'm pulling down the code now so I can get a better idea of what is going on |
| 03:37.05 | danderson | right |
| 03:37.16 | danderson | the AI folks at my university seem to like the "challenge" approach to projects |
| 03:37.39 | danderson | get groups to compete against each other |
| 03:37.39 | *** join/#bzflag klklklklklklklkl (n=bla@203.109.176.242) |
| 03:37.44 | danderson | bzflag sounds perfect for that :P |
| 03:37.52 | brlcad | it really is |
| 03:38.03 | brlcad | 3d environment that you can limit to 2d or allow full 3d |
| 03:39.01 | brlcad | existing client and server infrastructure for interactive/training-mode use or automated-learning, observing clients, graphical record and reply, etc |
| 03:39.16 | danderson | right |
| 03:39.22 | brlcad | it lets you focus on just whatever the ai topic is |
| 03:39.24 | danderson | hadn't considered machine learning at all |
| 03:39.32 | *** part/#bzflag klklklklklklklkl (n=bla@203.109.176.242) |
| 03:39.42 | danderson | I was thinking on a multi-agent level |
| 03:39.48 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 03:39.56 | brlcad | yeah, the byu course only gets into agent on agent behaviors, potential fields, interactions |
| 03:40.04 | danderson | a CTF game of 10 vs. 10 (bzflag has ctf, right? Or am I hallucinating?) |
| 03:40.10 | brlcad | you could just as easily do something with genetic agents, neural nets, etc |
| 03:40.13 | *** join/#bzflag mithro (n=tim@ppp246-117.static.internode.on.net) |
| 03:40.14 | danderson | right. |
| 03:40.28 | brlcad | danderson: heh .. ctf .. it is bz .. "flag" :) |
| 03:40.34 | danderson | and introducing the platform for several of the AI courses means you have to learn it once :) |
| 03:40.59 | danderson | brlcad: well, yeah. I just seem to remember that most games I joined were plain kicking the shit out of each other |
| 03:41.02 | danderson | :) |
| 03:42.06 | brlcad | that's also why I actually mentioned robocode, as they are one of the premiere codes in this area for interactive agent AI studies, then and perhaps swarm though they're less goal-focused |
| 03:42.38 | danderson | hmm. |
| 03:42.50 | brlcad | ahh, yeah, you'll find that.. one of the more popular game modes is free for all |
| 03:43.01 | brlcad | ibot: ping |
| 03:43.04 | ibot | pong |
| 03:43.10 | brlcad | hrm.. so not fully dead |
| 03:43.14 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
| 03:43.20 | blast007 | ~status |
| 03:43.21 | ibot | Since Tue Mar 6 17:48:55 2007, there have been 100 modifications, 1544 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 1347 commands. I have been awake for 11d 9h 54m 25s this session, and currently reference 0 factoids. I'm using about 20968 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 49924.42/2639.57 child 0.14/0.06 |
| 03:43.27 | blast007 | 0 factoids |
| 03:43.31 | blast007 | it lost the DB connection |
| 03:43.34 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:44.03 | brlcad | danderson: borrego.hepcat.org:5154 .. there's a CTF server that's freuntly popular -- probably quol.bzflag.bz:5157 too |
| 03:44.31 | *** part/#bzflag Joss (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 03:44.35 | SportChick | hi mithro |
| 03:45.53 | brlcad | anyone know which of quol's servers that is? |
| 03:46.03 | danderson | thanks |
| 03:46.14 | danderson | won't join now though, busy watching V for Vendetta :) |
| 03:46.46 | *** join/#bzflag view (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 03:48.12 | spldart | most excellent... I still got it |
| 03:48.18 | SportChick | brlcad: what server are you looking for? |
| 03:48.32 | brlcad | danderson: ahh, great movie :) |
| 03:48.41 | danderson | I love the music |
| 03:48.45 | danderson | the 1812 Overture |
| 03:49.04 | brlcad | excellent poetic monologues |
| 03:49.12 | danderson | yes, also |
| 03:49.16 | brlcad | ~spell monologue |
| 03:49.26 | brlcad | hrm, so it is |
| 03:49.28 | danderson | that's the correct spelling :) |
| 03:49.40 | SportChick | brlcad: quol:5157 is GU, quol:59998 is ducati |
| 03:49.52 | brlcad | SportChick: gu ctf? |
| 03:50.15 | SportChick | brlcad: think so |
| 03:50.17 | SportChick | yeah |
| 03:50.22 | SportChick | definitely |
| 03:50.27 | uso | yes, it's even a match server |
| 03:51.13 | brlcad | hmm quite a bit of web server activity tonight |
| 03:51.53 | danderson | john hurt is also awesome as the chancellor |
| 03:52.07 | danderson | nice counterpoint to his Winston Smith character in 1984 |
| 03:52.22 | danderson | </unrelated> |
| 03:52.30 | brlcad | he's just a great actor ;) |
| 03:52.43 | danderson | +1 |
| 03:52.43 | Guu | danderson: Error: "1" is not a valid command. |
| 03:52.47 | danderson | ... |
| 03:52.50 | brlcad | shuddap guu |
| 03:53.08 | brlcad | '+' is her attention prefix |
| 03:53.14 | danderson | heh |
| 03:55.26 | brlcad | +weather 21222 |
| 03:55.27 | Guu | brlcad: The current temperature in South Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland is 33.6°F (11:55 PM EDT on March 17, 2007). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 10.4°F. Windchill: 24.8°F. Pressure: 29.93 in 1013.4 hPa (Rising). |
| 03:55.33 | spldart | Who could forget the cameo in Spaceballs? |
| 03:55.52 | spldart | And the silly cute baby chest-burster |
| 03:56.15 | spldart | "Hello my baby. Hello my darling" |
| 03:56.52 | danderson | "Good evening London." |
| 03:56.56 | danderson | best line ever :) |
| 03:57.10 | danderson | (well, with the context obviously) |
| 04:01.01 | spldart | sry... was shooting some tanky_wankers |
| 04:11.01 | brlcad | since CIA seems to be down, 'Outburst' aka 'blah blah' is now added to the master ban list |
| 04:14.28 | gl2tosl2 | brlcad, will you be around tomorrow? |
| 04:14.40 | gl2tosl2 | I want to go to bed and look some of this stuff over |
| 04:19.00 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: most of the core devs are here every day |
| 04:19.33 | brlcad | we generally don't leave either, so if I don't respond.. just say what you wanted public or via PM and I'll respond if you're around when I return |
| 04:19.46 | brlcad | the logs are read |
| 04:21.18 | menotume | might as well ban him here too :) |
| 04:25.36 | eTangenT | brlcad: cheating? |
| 04:26.21 | lodxcol | eTangent: yes. |
| 04:26.37 | eTangenT | ah. stupid cheaters. |
| 04:27.06 | menotume | it's the smart ones you have to watch out for :) |
| 04:28.15 | brlcad | eTangenT: yes |
| 04:28.42 | brlcad | menotume: nah, only getted banned from irc when they cause trouble in irc |
| 04:29.31 | eTangenT | I saw a cheater (Here I Am) the other day on Missile Wars |
| 04:29.42 | eTangenT | green tank sitting in blue base shooting lasers randomly |
| 04:29.51 | eTangenT | didn't die once until a blue hit green with geno :D |
| 04:30.01 | eTangenT | I banned him after that |
| 04:30.15 | menotume | brlcad: he did, yesterday |
| 04:30.35 | brlcad | not really, just declared his intentions |
| 04:30.44 | menotume | ah, okies |
| 04:30.51 | brlcad | rather polite of him in a way :) |
| 04:30.59 | menotume | heh, polite language too :) |
| 04:31.34 | brlcad | well there was that, but that's not a ban on first couple times unless they know/been warned, etc ;) |
| 04:31.44 | menotume | yes, agreed |
| 04:32.02 | menotume | is fun to give them some rope sometimes, too |
| 04:32.30 | spldart | Maybe it's this 'gameshark' mentality? |
| 04:33.05 | spldart | But if they have some C+ know-how they just change code instead of entering a code. |
| 04:33.16 | lodxcol | Outburst uses Cheat Engine. |
| 04:33.28 | danderson | Cheat Engine? |
| 04:34.00 | danderson | oh, fancy in-memory hexedit with game-genie-ish functionality |
| 04:38.17 | brlcad | which is a bit absurd for bzflag .. just change the code and recompile |
| 04:38.26 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 04:41.23 | mithro | so you got any SoC apps yet? |
| 04:41.51 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 04:42.52 | brlcad | mithro: a couple, you applying yet? :) |
| 04:43.43 | mithro | brlcad: i'm a mentor :) we havn't get any yet :/ |
| 04:43.58 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:44.21 | danderson | we got a few. Really awful though. |
| 04:44.43 | danderson | One was an application for a project from another org, with just the title changed to an irrelevant entry on our ideas page |
| 04:44.46 | danderson | -> wtf? |
| 04:46.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:47.28 | brlcad | i'm a disappointed that the kids are given so little time to apply |
| 04:47.52 | brlcad | and even moreso that they don't give mentorship orgs really any time to announce/promote |
| 04:48.20 | danderson | I think the time from announcement to mentor org acceptance was time enough for students to investigate |
| 04:48.31 | brlcad | you can't promote beforehand unless you almost positive you'll be accepted, and once you do know, there's only 10 days to closure |
| 04:49.09 | danderson | I also don't think that giving students more time to apply would raise the quality much |
| 04:49.28 | PuMpErNiCkLe | They'd only wait until later, anyway. |
| 04:49.51 | danderson | brlcad: also, there is the issue of how early on google can start. |
| 04:50.05 | danderson | a program like SoC takes well into the winter/spring to run to completion |
| 04:50.23 | danderson | and running soc 2k6 and 2k7 simultaneously is just pain |
| 04:50.35 | brlcad | for some, sure -- but 10 days basically boils down to just one or two weekends, which could easily overlap with other obligations, spring break, something else that prohibits submission/awareness |
| 04:51.07 | danderson | which is why SoC and the timeline got announced a long while ago :) |
| 04:51.41 | danderson | that said, I'm sure google is open to feedback on the timeline |
| 04:51.43 | brlcad | announced, sure, but then say there is a conflict? knowing in advance doesn't necessarily change that |
| 04:51.53 | danderson | assume you can't start any earlier, propose a better timeline |
| 04:52.59 | brlcad | intuitively, from outsider perspective, it would seem that there's flex room in the two months from student app closure to beginning |
| 04:54.10 | brlcad | btw, not just my ranting, I've heard these same concerns from all those I'm involved with except the massive orgs that were pretty much guaranteed acceptance (like gentoo) |
| 04:54.14 | danderson | right, though that time is meant for accepted students to get familiar with the project |
| 04:54.28 | danderson | sure, not saying there isn't room for improvement |
| 04:54.37 | danderson | just saying this feedback should go right up to google |
| 04:54.43 | danderson | rather than remain rants among orgs |
| 04:55.09 | brlcad | i've actually e-mailed a few with no response, feels like I'm hitting a black hole |
| 04:55.46 | brlcad | which is probably just that everyone is too busy running the program to consider the impact/decisions/next year, or just too busy to answer |
| 04:56.17 | brlcad | it's all good though, it's not like there's a shortage of applications |
| 04:56.19 | danderson | it is possible that all this is filed under "Look up for next year" |
| 04:56.35 | danderson | I think a timeline change this year is highly improbable |
| 04:57.01 | brlcad | feels more like submitting to apple's "file a support comment" bucket, where you just become a bean count ;) |
| 04:57.14 | brlcad | oh, I'm sure it's impossible for this year |
| 04:57.27 | brlcad | you can't readily post a schedule and then change it.. people rely on it |
| 04:57.49 | danderson | I can assure you that feedback isn't treated like that :) |
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| 05:22.17 | a_meteorite | ~seen daniel_jackson |
| 05:22.46 | ibot | daniel_jackson <n=bsanford@cpe-66-74-198-10.san.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 7d 23h 29m 40s ago, saying: 'well I'll let it rest for one night'. |
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| 05:38.18 | Rawk | a_meteorite: I've seen him on bzflag more recently |
| 05:38.44 | Rawk | a_meteorite: I was talking to him the other night |
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| 05:43.26 | a_meteorite | hmmm |
| 05:43.30 | a_meteorite | different nick? |
| 05:44.49 | SportChick | wb jude |
| 05:45.26 | jude | hello |
| 05:45.52 | jude | good to be here |
| 05:48.28 | PuMpErNiCkLe | ~blast007++ |
| 05:49.09 | SportChick | ~blast007++ |
| 05:49.58 | Rawk | a_meteorite: I was meaning I've seen him on bzflag more recently than he was last seen on irc |
| 05:50.27 | a_meteorite | Rawk: oh, so have I :) |
| 05:56.46 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 05:56.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 06:48.35 | brlcad | DTRemenak: ooh, what about integrating cegui into the client as a project.. |
| 06:49.15 | brlcad | that should be pretty doable |
| 06:49.19 | DTRemenak | brlcad: my personal preference is to stick with a keyboard-only system. I know people disagree with me though :) |
| 06:50.06 | brlcad | heh, I like the keyboard too, but keyboard-only? |
| 06:50.26 | DTRemenak | brlcad: to leave the mouse free for maneuvering behind the menus |
| 06:50.35 | brlcad | actually i was thinking more for gui elements and rendering facelift anyways.. could still be keyboard only ;) |
| 06:50.52 | DTRemenak | problem is, most of the gui elements assume a mouse |
| 06:51.06 | DTRemenak | at least the upper-level ones |
| 06:51.30 | brlcad | heh, so keep crappy menus so you can 'kinda' maneuver even when you've requested menu focus |
| 06:51.49 | DTRemenak | I'm sure with enough effort it could be made to work acceptably |
| 06:51.57 | DTRemenak | brlcad: as I said, that is my preference :) |
| 06:53.03 | DTRemenak | if it's consensus to change, then I'll go with it and try to make things work as much as possible |
| 06:53.06 | brlcad | actually I think keyboard-only is a good proof that it was well-designed.. you should be able to maneuver to all menu options with the keys regardless of the widgets |
| 06:53.41 | DTRemenak | yeah, in any case it should be keyboard-accessible |
| 06:54.14 | brlcad | even if I can't drive with keys while the menu is up :P |
| 06:54.31 | DTRemenak | brlcad: yeah, I know that doesn't mean much to you :) |
| 06:54.42 | DTRemenak | "that" being my reasoning :) |
| 06:54.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 06:55.02 | jude | brlcad: possibly a patch could be created that would allow menu items to be accessed only when a modifier key is pressed? |
| 06:55.15 | DTRemenak | mmm, modalities |
| 06:55.31 | jude | ...which would allow driving and menu access simultaneously? |
| 06:55.45 | L4m3r | I'd really like a native UI bzlauncher |
| 06:56.04 | L4m3r | something light that'll let you browse the list and pick a game |
| 06:56.18 | L4m3r | and THEN launch the full client |
| 06:56.36 | brlcad | DTRemenak: that'd actually be a quasimode, so long as you have to keep the key pressed |
| 06:56.50 | DTRemenak | L4m3r: and that you would like that, is an indication that our current gui is insufficient |
| 06:57.00 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ah, I must have misinterpreted his statement |
| 06:57.23 | brlcad | i could see having a quasimode while in the menus that allows driving (by key or mouse).. that'd be useful |
| 06:57.40 | DTRemenak | then what about observer mode? all of the typical modifier keys are already taken |
| 06:58.01 | L4m3r | not so much, DTRemenak... it's just that half the time there's not a server I feel like playing on. for those cases, it's a waste to launch the entire client. |
| 06:58.33 | DTRemenak | waste of what? time? then we should speed up loading |
| 06:58.33 | brlcad | observer's should be the exception, not basis for the rule .. they can "deal" if they go to a menu |
| 06:58.44 | jude | DTRemenak: that doesn't mean one can't use atypical modkeys :) |
| 06:58.46 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I'm just being ornery :) |
| 06:59.46 | brlcad | L4m3r: actually talked about having the client launch a launcher.. two years ago |
| 06:59.56 | brlcad | basically boiled down to patches welcome |
| 07:00.16 | L4m3r | lol |
| 07:00.22 | DTRemenak | jude: there's only so much you can do on a standard keyboard :) |
| 07:00.45 | L4m3r | well, if _I_ did it, it'd probably be in QT so most users would be SOL :P |
| 07:00.58 | brlcad | in QT? |
| 07:01.08 | L4m3r | KDE's UI |
| 07:01.08 | brlcad | ooh Qt |
| 07:01.12 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:01.16 | DTRemenak | quicktime! |
| 07:01.22 | brlcad | that's what I was thinking |
| 07:01.23 | L4m3r | just because it's my environment of choice |
| 07:02.10 | L4m3r | Kmail, Konqueror, Konversation... mmmm. :P |
| 07:02.13 | jude | it already has a port to windows |
| 07:02.21 | L4m3r | really? |
| 07:02.24 | jude | pretty sure |
| 07:02.33 | L4m3r | I heard they were working on it |
| 07:02.51 | jude | I think its there in 4.0 and above |
| 07:03.29 | brlcad | http://www.trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qt/windows |
| 07:04.30 | brlcad | just can't compile under visual studio without the commercial edition iirc |
| 07:06.00 | jude | np. Dev-C++ is pretty popular (and free) |
| 07:06.28 | jude | kinda wish they'd make a unix port, though |
| 07:06.29 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 07:06.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 07:06.57 | brlcad | and a bit of a joke still for large projects |
| 07:07.25 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
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| 07:07.44 | brlcad | not handling multiple targets in particular |
| 07:07.50 | jude | true |
| 07:07.56 | brlcad | but making steady progress |
| 07:08.30 | L4m3r | I'll be happy when I get Konqueror for windows |
| 07:09.14 | brlcad | hmm.. i'll have to add a bzlauncher interface .. that really would be not too hard even using libplatform and some bzdb settings |
| 07:09.36 | L4m3r | couldn't it just invoke the client? :P |
| 07:09.52 | L4m3r | I could have sworn there were join options in the command line |
| 07:10.08 | brlcad | it would be a part of the client |
| 07:10.35 | brlcad | not all launch environments and platforms launch from a command-line |
| 07:11.05 | brlcad | mac and windows in particular, but even the likes of launching from kde/gnome icons too |
| 07:11.33 | L4m3r | no, I mean, couldn't a launcher exec bzflag as a shell command? |
| 07:11.35 | brlcad | not that they "can't" .. it's that it's just not regularly done |
| 07:11.48 | L4m3r | oh |
| 07:11.57 | brlcad | L4m3r: sure, it could .. that'd be fine too |
| 07:12.42 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 07:12.44 | brlcad | but why make two binaries when they're the same thing is a consideration |
| 07:12.53 | L4m3r | true |
| 07:13.07 | brlcad | either undoubtedly works though |
| 07:13.21 | L4m3r | hm... a configuration utility could be handy too |
| 07:13.24 | brlcad | merit to both |
| 07:13.33 | brlcad | configuration? |
| 07:13.53 | L4m3r | just a way to edit the game settings without launching all the gl stuff |
| 07:14.16 | brlcad | ah, hm |
| 07:14.31 | jude | maybe there could be a ~/.bzflag file, or something? |
| 07:14.45 | brlcad | jude: that already exists |
| 07:15.12 | jude | ah. nm |
| 07:15.42 | menotume | is there anything that i can do to confuse the issue? :P |
| 07:16.01 | brlcad | L4m3r: there's only a handful of settings that make sense outside of the game (and most of them are already client cmd line options) .. maybe an extra tab/panel on this launcher |
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| 11:37.17 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/include/Protocol.h: rm obsolete/misleading comment |
| 11:37.22 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Using the crystal space m4 files |
| 11:37.37 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/ (bzfs/bzfs.cxx common/bzfio.cxx): sp; loging->logging project-wide |
| 11:37.38 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/MSVC/VC8/ares.vcproj: disable some unneeded ares warnings to quiet down the compile. someone(tm) should probably update ares, btw. |
| 12:05.46 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@kotnet-149.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 12:05.54 | KTL | cheater clifton @badgerking? |
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| 12:37.10 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10admin/master-bans.txt: remove the various dynamic IPs for CRW, ban Outburst aka blah blah for multiple incidents of cheating on various public servers |
| 12:37.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/include/ (bzfio.h bzfsAPI.h): sp; loging->logging project-wide |
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| 13:43.55 | donny_baker | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 13:45.00 | donny_baker | DTRemenak: For 'Be Bold' page on the wiki |
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| 14:01.43 | donny_baker | DTRemenak has created a great motivational page at http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlagWiki:Be_bold |
| 14:02.19 | donny_baker | I hope so, we need more than the 10 to 20 people who are actively editing pages |
| 14:03.44 | PuMpErNiCkLe | <b> |
| 14:03.56 | donny_baker | :> |
| 14:05.34 | Bz_Win | </b> *crashes party* |
| 14:10.54 | ts | donny_baker: Will the new wiki also get the style of the old wiki? |
| 14:11.08 | ts | Meaning the integration into the main site |
| 14:11.53 | donny_baker | depends on the level of integration, logons being the same, probably not |
| 14:12.32 | donny_baker | being linked in, as soon as we are confident we have taken everything from the old, yes |
| 14:13.01 | ts | donny_baker: I mean the colour, the sidebar etc |
| 14:13.39 | donny_baker | If someone does a skin, we would consider it |
| 14:13.41 | Bz_Win | Am I the only one know who doesn't like the site? |
| 14:13.59 | Bz_Win | now, even |
| 14:14.07 | donny_baker | that is the nice thing about this wiki, there are 4 or 5 skins already |
| 14:14.17 | donny_baker | you can pick the one that fits for style |
| 14:14.49 | donny_baker | there is a mostly text one, the monobook (the one that is the default) and some others |
| 14:15.01 | donny_baker | Bz_Win: what don't you like? |
| 14:16.01 | ts | Well, the default one looks best..though the tank is certainly not good |
| 14:16.56 | Bz_Win | you don't like my wiki tank? :'( |
| 14:17.11 | ts | It's ugly |
| 14:17.14 | Bz_Win | :D |
| 14:17.27 | donny_baker | Bz_Win: to be fair, you said you didn't like it either when you gave it to me :) |
| 14:17.46 | donny_baker | but we wanted something and it was the best we had at the time |
| 14:18.27 | donny_baker | Bz_win was the only one who came through on a graphic, although serveral were offered the oppertunity |
| 14:18.45 | Bz_Win | donny: Ill make another one in a few min |
| 14:19.10 | donny_baker | the 48x48 with the blue 'Wiki'on it... |
| 14:19.25 | KTL | the grey image in the left top corner? |
| 14:19.36 | donny_baker | KTL: yes |
| 14:20.28 | KTL | cods may have some good pics |
| 14:20.54 | cods | hmm ? |
| 14:21.11 | KTL | http://bzflag.tuxee.net/ |
| 14:21.12 | KTL | :) |
| 14:21.40 | cods | ah |
| 14:22.11 | cods | (tank rendered with POV) |
| 14:22.36 | Bz_Win | ew, pov? |
| 14:22.45 | KTL | povray |
| 14:22.52 | Bz_Win | ew |
| 14:23.01 | inchworm | povray is cool |
| 14:23.07 | Bz_Win | Indigo is better :) |
| 14:24.26 | cods | I can retrieve the scene I was using to render it if someone is interested |
| 14:24.31 | brlcad | wow, nice integration |
| 14:24.49 | KTL | because the povray images are the best i've seen till know of the bztank |
| 14:24.50 | brlcad | e.g. http://bzflag.tuxee.net/classic.png |
| 14:25.23 | Bz_Win | shouts* |
| 14:28.30 | inchworm | yah, povray is prettier than the bzflag rendereer...now I wonder how fast it can update a scene |
| 14:28.46 | KTL | it is for a website not for a 3d game |
| 14:29.04 | Bz_Win | Doesn't it take ~3+ houirs to render? |
| 14:29.13 | inchworm | depends on the scene of course |
| 14:29.30 | KTL | for every pixel on your screen |
| 14:29.36 | KTL | you take the view ray \ |
| 14:29.40 | KTL | find the first intersection |
| 14:29.42 | danderson | wow |
| 14:29.43 | danderson | nice level |
| 14:29.50 | KTL | for that intersection you need the reflection ray |
| 14:29.58 | inchworm | danderson: even funner to play |
| 14:30.11 | KTL | and the light beam between the light sources and the intersection point |
| 14:30.43 | KTL | and the place there the reflection beam intersects himself somewhere else .... there you can do the same recursively |
| 14:30.43 | inchworm | KTL: yah, raytracing is computationally intensive, so you guess modern hardware might get 2 second per frame on a simple map? |
| 14:31.11 | inchworm | hehe |
| 14:31.16 | KTL | but simple raytracing can be done in realtime |
| 14:31.36 | inchworm | can you offload it to hardware too at all? |
| 14:31.37 | KTL | ah and some surfaces are partially transparant |
| 14:31.51 | KTL | cpu, not the graphics card |
| 14:31.55 | inchworm | ahh |
| 14:32.02 | KTL | the graphics card implements a rasterizer pipeline |
| 14:32.04 | danderson | I assume you could somewhat |
| 14:32.04 | inchworm | so everything goes software rendering |
| 14:32.12 | danderson | the recent video cards are entirely programmable |
| 14:32.18 | KTL | fpga |
| 14:32.22 | danderson | if seti@home can run on them, why not a raytracer :) |
| 14:32.33 | KTL | field programmable gate arrays, cool stuf, if you have vector data |
| 14:32.45 | inchworm | danderson: but is there achitecture decent for a raytracer style load? |
| 14:32.53 | danderson | no idea. |
| 14:33.26 | KTL | the predictions are that raytracing algorithms will take over from rasterizing if hardware speeds up |
| 14:33.27 | danderson | as for realtime raytracing, iirc wolfenstein 3d used a primitive form of that, raycasting |
| 14:33.40 | danderson | ie. no reflection, no refraction, very little computation |
| 14:33.48 | danderson | but projecting rays from the viewpoint into the scene |
| 14:34.09 | KTL | and the difference is not absolute between the algorithms, they tend to use pieces of each other |
| 14:34.37 | inchworm | wasn't wolfenstein 3d, like pre doom? |
| 14:34.47 | danderson | yup |
| 14:34.52 | danderson | one of the first 3d fps |
| 14:34.56 | inchworm | and walls were 6 feet thick :) |
| 14:35.14 | inchworm | hehe |
| 14:35.17 | danderson | and you couldn't pan up/down, because that would screw up raycasting |
| 14:35.40 | inchworm | so it was optimized for the view point |
| 14:36.43 | inchworm | hmm indigo only runs on Windows |
| 14:37.15 | Bz_Win | and wine :p |
| 14:37.30 | inchworm | pah, who would want the pain? |
| 14:38.01 | KTL | btw, who has acces to the statistics database? with as frontend stats.bzflag.org? |
| 14:39.13 | KTL | a query for the email string |
| 14:40.00 | danderson | btw, on the subject of raytracing |
| 14:40.00 | danderson | how is yafray doing? |
| 14:40.04 | danderson | istr it died and came back several times |
| 14:40.13 | inchworm | KTL: looks like tim riker owns the domain |
| 14:40.33 | Bz_Win | Isn't the active yafray now "yafaray" or something like that? |
| 14:40.39 | inchworm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YafRay |
| 14:41.56 | danderson | hrm |
| 14:42.02 | danderson | yafaray smells a lot like a fork |
| 14:42.55 | brlcad | you can do real-time raytracing (full-blown) on modern hardware .. but it takes a really optimized ray-tracer |
| 14:42.56 | inchworm | brlcad: there are no fancy images on wikipedia so I can't compare brlcad to the others.. |
| 14:43.49 | KTL | btw, i have to make one, i want to do it in c++, i need a gui canvas like thing where i can see what i do |
| 14:43.50 | inchworm | brlcad: though the images arent bad at brlcad.org |
| 14:43.53 | brlcad | inchworm: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png and http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/humvee.png are examples |
| 14:44.07 | KTL | brlcad, don't you know any small lib for that? |
| 14:44.09 | inchworm | brlcad: thanks, found em :) |
| 14:44.20 | KTL | just pixel canvas |
| 14:44.47 | KTL | no buttons, no functionality at all |
| 14:45.31 | brlcad | KTL: brl-cad's libfb library is exactly that .. gives you a 2D framebuffer/canvas to draw into |
| 14:45.43 | KTL | libframebuffer mmm cool |
| 14:45.57 | brlcad | otherwise, just go with something like an sdl surface |
| 14:47.04 | KTL | ah it is yours really |
| 14:49.10 | KTL | void fb_setPixel(uint16 x, uint16 y, uint16 color); |
| 14:49.10 | KTL | void bg_setPixel(uint16 x, uint16 y, uint16 color); |
| 14:51.22 | brlcad | that sounds like a different library, but there are lots of such libs |
| 14:52.03 | brlcad | cad's would be simply fb_read() and fb_write() |
| 14:53.18 | menotume | mornin' brillopad :) |
| 14:53.35 | brlcad | morning minnow tune :) |
| 14:54.28 | menotume | do you pronounce it brill-cad ? |
| 14:55.10 | brlcad | PROJECT NAME section in http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/description.txt |
| 14:55.16 | brlcad | BRL-CAD is correctly pronounced as "be are el cad". |
| 14:55.46 | menotume | bummer :) |
| 14:55.56 | Bz_Win | I win! :p |
| 14:56.19 | KTL | 8x |
| 14:56.20 | KTL | :D |
| 15:02.06 | menotume | brill-cad is easier :P |
| 15:03.24 | gl2tosl2 | morning |
| 15:03.49 | menotume | morning 2,2,2, |
| 15:03.54 | gl2tosl2 | no-no no |
| 15:04.08 | gl2tosl2 | g-l-2-"to"-s-l-2 |
| 15:04.28 | brlcad | what is sl2? |
| 15:04.38 | gl2tosl2 | special linear group |
| 15:04.45 | menotume | that last part of his nik, duh |
| 15:04.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:05.11 | gl2tosl2 | You could think of it as real (or complex valued) matricies with determinant 1 |
| 15:06.02 | brlcad | that could come in handy |
| 15:06.08 | brlcad | got a link? |
| 15:06.32 | gl2tosl2 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_linear_group |
| 15:07.10 | gl2tosl2 | it's a nick that is easy for me to remember, but no one else is likely to use |
| 15:07.12 | brlcad | i mean, it sounds like your name reflects some converter |
| 15:07.20 | gl2tosl2 | homomorphism |
| 15:07.24 | gl2tosl2 | not any particular one |
| 15:07.35 | brlcad | ah, hm |
| 15:07.45 | brlcad | then why gl*2* and sl*2*? |
| 15:07.53 | gl2tosl2 | it's like a function |
| 15:08.01 | gl2tosl2 | from gl2 to sl2 |
| 15:08.04 | gl2tosl2 | gl2tosl2 |
| 15:08.45 | brlcad | again, why "2"? implies some format version |
| 15:08.56 | gl2tosl2 | 2 is the number of dimensions |
| 15:09.02 | gl2tosl2 | ie 2x2 matricies in this case |
| 15:09.06 | brlcad | ok |
| 15:10.28 | gl2tosl2 | I took a look at bzrobots |
| 15:10.31 | gl2tosl2 | brief look |
| 15:11.44 | KTL | in fact i may be better of simply using the xserver libs directly ... |
| 15:12.36 | gl2tosl2 | anyway, my nick, I seem to have a version of this conversation everywhere I e-go |
| 15:13.07 | brlcad | well, that might tell you something ;) |
| 15:13.14 | gl2tosl2 | that it's a good choice? |
| 15:13.22 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:13.33 | brlcad | albeit misleading :) |
| 15:13.59 | gl2tosl2 | perhaps, in retrospect, it's a bit more e-stylish than I like |
| 15:14.16 | gl2tosl2 | the way it's misleading seems to depend on the crowd |
| 15:15.46 | gl2tosl2 | so bzrobots: seems like it hasn't been updated in a while |
| 15:16.11 | brlcad | it was a few weeks ago, depends how busy amcnabb is |
| 15:16.32 | brlcad | most of the other devs haven't played with it yet other than simple compilation issues |
| 15:17.04 | gl2tosl2 | is the cvs version from sourceforge not the latest and greatest? |
| 15:17.11 | brlcad | should be |
| 15:17.15 | gl2tosl2 | okay |
| 15:17.34 | gl2tosl2 | so one issue that I would have would be multi-platform stuff |
| 15:17.49 | gl2tosl2 | I've never done anything other than simple "hello world" type stuff for windows |
| 15:17.55 | brlcad | i might have a sense of time warp going on as well as to when exactly the last commit was made |
| 15:18.09 | gl2tosl2 | well, the version I checked out doesn't compile :) |
| 15:19.13 | Bz_Win | donny_baker: ping |
| 15:19.52 | gl2tosl2 | so I would target linux with this, later platforms being kept in mind |
| 15:20.01 | gl2tosl2 | later meaning other in this case |
| 15:20.47 | brlcad | so long as it works for you on at least one platform, and you don't write to platform-specific api's, you wouldn't need to worry about other platforms |
| 15:21.03 | brlcad | other than other devs that try to compile and notice any outright problems |
| 15:21.49 | brlcad | that should only happen, though, if you did use something plat-specific |
| 15:22.05 | gl2tosl2 | right, not something that I would aim for |
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| 15:29.13 | KTL | grrr i try to use xlib, but the result of my command is not always the same |
| 15:29.28 | KTL | sometimes it gives a window with something on it |
| 15:29.32 | Bz_Win_hiding | bbl |
| 15:29.33 | KTL | sometimes it remains empty |
| 15:30.52 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 15:50.35 | KTL | aaaa i found it... it was on the right corner top of my screen all the time :D |
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| 15:55.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o jeffm2501] by ChanServ |
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| 16:09.42 | DTRemenak | donny_baker: I didn't really "create" BZFlagWiki:BOLD, I transwikied it from WP:BOLD |
| 16:09.54 | DTRemenak | and trimmed out some irrelevant stuff, added a few lines |
| 16:22.40 | *** part/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=A_Heart_@unaffiliated/aheartattack/x-000001) |
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| 16:23.14 | jeffm2501 | should we comment on the guy that proposed the ogre work, that we don't need to keep the old graphics code? |
| 16:23.26 | brlcad | gl2tosl2: bzrobots is fixed |
| 16:23.54 | brlcad | which guy? |
| 16:24.09 | jeffm2501 | gsoc |
| 16:24.12 | DTRemenak | Andrei Barbu |
| 16:24.17 | jeffm2501 | we have an an applicant |
| 16:24.19 | jeffm2501 | yeah that gyy |
| 16:24.22 | jeffm2501 | or girl |
| 16:24.46 | brlcad | ahh, i see |
| 16:24.54 | jeffm2501 | but realy ogre at it's base will do what bzs internals will do, so there isn't any point in keeping it |
| 16:25.00 | jeffm2501 | unless we like clutter ;) |
| 16:25.09 | brlcad | we love clutter |
| 16:25.23 | jeffm2501 | hopefully only in a nostalgic way ;) |
| 16:25.47 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=Hannibal@unaffiliated/hannibal) |
| 16:25.51 | jeffm2501 | hopefully no having to keep the old stuff would let them get further in the ogre implementation. |
| 16:26.03 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 16:26.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 16:27.29 | DTRemenak | jeffm2501: from the last couple paragraphs, I think he was thinking of trying to merge as much as possible as soon as possible, and in order to keep things usable and non-broken, that would imply some way to switch. I'm not sure it's worth it though, probably better to do in a separate branch. |
| 16:28.13 | jeffm2501 | I also think he's trying to make it known that' he's ok keeping our old stuff, in case we are atached to it. |
| 16:28.23 | jeffm2501 | just playing the caution |
| 16:28.26 | *** part/#bzflag Hannibal (n=Hannibal@unaffiliated/hannibal) |
| 16:28.55 | jeffm2501 | cus if he pulls it, we get to ditch a lot of the platform code :) |
| 16:29.05 | brlcad | either way, it's overall reasonable - could perhaps comment that he doesn't have to if it helps his implementation |
| 16:29.17 | jeffm2501 | that's what I'm puting in now |
| 16:29.50 | DTRemenak | jeffm2501: also, I think we should tell him that someone is currently working on CS integration. would we keep both? |
| 16:30.15 | jeffm2501 | do you want to limit him like that/ |
| 16:30.16 | jeffm2501 | ? |
| 16:30.18 | DTRemenak | 'cause if there's a chance we'll choose not to use his code, we should be upfront about it |
| 16:30.33 | jeffm2501 | you can comment on that, after I comment on this then :) |
| 16:31.31 | DTRemenak | heck no, let him do the project either way...just make it clear that even if his project succeeds, his code might not be used. that's assuming we wouldn't want to keep/maintain both, even if both work. |
| 16:32.22 | jeffm2501 | personaly I'd not want to, nor care to do both |
| 16:32.25 | jeffm2501 | there is no need for it |
| 16:32.30 | jeffm2501 | they will each do what we want |
| 16:32.35 | brlcad | yeah, he's proposing ogre, wouldn't throw another engine at him |
| 16:32.38 | jeffm2501 | we want simpler/cleaner code |
| 16:33.31 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I wasn't saying we should throw one at him, I'm saying we should let him know we ultimately may not choose to use his code even if he succeeds |
| 16:33.49 | brlcad | DTRemenak: i know, and i agree -- he should know that there's CS work going on |
| 16:34.03 | brlcad | maybe he'd want to change his approach to that instead, maybe not |
| 16:34.32 | brlcad | i don't think there's anything wrong with having both efforts either |
| 16:34.39 | brlcad | would make for a nice comparison |
| 16:35.02 | brlcad | maybe even help refactor the integration so we could *gasp* toggle getween the two at compile-time :) |
| 16:35.44 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it sounded like that's part of what he was proposing, with "keeping the current graphics code" |
| 16:35.46 | brlcad | his idea to hook into the current scene manager does have merit -- less chance of breaking the rendering |
| 16:36.28 | brlcad | i think that's basically also the approach tupone has been taking (?) |
| 16:36.32 | jeffm2501 | no |
| 16:36.40 | jeffm2501 | he's ripped out like platform |
| 16:36.44 | jeffm2501 | CS only |
| 16:36.53 | jeffm2501 | there is NO point to us having 2 engines at compile time |
| 16:37.00 | brlcad | i'm talking about scene management |
| 16:37.14 | brlcad | platform just sets up the context |
| 16:37.24 | Tupone | CS is not a 3D rendering engine, ia a game framework |
| 16:37.27 | jeffm2501 | that's part of the engine |
| 16:37.40 | jeffm2501 | ogre would replace the platform too |
| 16:37.55 | jeffm2501 | and you can't call the old drawing and scene management with ogre |
| 16:38.00 | jeffm2501 | so we'd have 2 systems |
| 16:38.26 | brlcad | i read that he'd actually make calls from the old scene management code |
| 16:38.51 | Tupone | hmm where is this written? who is going to do what? |
| 16:38.53 | brlcad | Tupone: it's *also* a 3d rendering enginer ;) |
| 16:39.14 | brlcad | it just does more too |
| 16:39.36 | Tupone | any link? |
| 16:39.44 | brlcad | Tupone: gsoc submission |
| 16:39.49 | Tupone | ahh |
| 16:39.57 | brlcad | student proposed ogre integration |
| 16:44.02 | donny_baker | 10DTRemenak:01 well anyway, I like it, copied and modified or not :) |
| 16:44.10 | menotume | Has any1 tried crystal core ? |
| 16:44.25 | Tupone | me :) |
| 16:44.29 | menotume | and ? |
| 16:44.32 | Tupone | Manu |
| 16:44.40 | menotume | and, how'd it perform ? :) |
| 16:44.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:45.04 | Tupone | very great, but the world is most empty. Have you seen the screenshot? |
| 16:45.24 | menotume | ya |
| 16:46.02 | Tupone | I can kill someone, but it is very hard :) |
| 16:46.09 | menotume | i was just wondering if i should try it, guess iw ill, to get cs running |
| 16:47.02 | Tupone | well, don't ever think of playing with it now, is more like a demo |
| 16:47.13 | menotume | yes, understood |
| 16:47.17 | menotume | walk around and shoot |
| 16:47.27 | menotume | good enuf :) |
| 16:47.43 | menotume | the simpler the better for me |
| 16:47.44 | eTangenT | weeee, I like this new Wiki |
| 16:47.48 | eTangenT | I posted my first article on it now |
| 16:48.27 | A_Heart_Attack | about/ |
| 16:48.29 | A_Heart_Attack | *? |
| 16:48.38 | eTangenT | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Arc |
| 16:48.40 | eTangenT | arcs :D |
| 16:48.47 | eTangenT | I think I did that right |
| 16:48.54 | eTangenT | first Wiki article I ever posted anywhere |
| 16:49.11 | eTangenT | I forget what shear does though |
| 16:49.11 | donny_baker | eTangenT: thanks :) |
| 16:49.20 | eTangenT | so I need to edit that one more time |
| 16:49.28 | eTangenT | plus I would like to add a screenshot of an arc sometime |
| 16:49.36 | eTangenT | I'll add more articles for maps later |
| 16:51.33 | donny_baker | eTangentT: The only thing I would reccoment is adding the categories to the page |
| 16:51.54 | donny_baker | I will add them on this on and you can look at the code so you can do it in the future :) |
| 16:52.14 | eTangenT | eh? |
| 16:52.31 | donny_baker | The categories automatically add them to a list of related pages |
| 16:52.43 | donny_baker | look at the page now, at the bottom |
| 16:52.45 | eTangenT | ah |
| 16:52.47 | eTangenT | I see |
| 16:52.50 | eTangenT | thanks :) |
| 16:52.54 | donny_baker | no problem |
| 16:56.01 | eTangenT | but I still wonder |
| 16:56.06 | eTangenT | what does shear do? |
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| 16:58.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 17:02.33 | donny_baker | eTangenT: I'm not sure what it does, but that is the nice thing about a wiki |
| 17:02.50 | donny_baker | someone WILL know and hopefully they will fix that part |
| 17:02.57 | eTangenT | indeed |
| 17:03.06 | eTangenT | I left a note in there saying it needed to be edited |
| 17:03.44 | eTangenT | maybe not the best idea, so I'll just keep it in mind |
| 17:04.10 | donny_baker | no, i think that is fine, shows that it is not complete to someone who is reading it |
| 17:06.23 | eTangenT | yeah |
| 17:06.31 | eTangenT | of course, if it's blank, they might figure it out as well |
| 17:06.42 | eTangenT | it just says "# (repeatable)" right now |
| 17:06.48 | eTangenT | obviously different than the others |
| 17:09.21 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 17:12.38 | brlcad | ~spell likelyhood |
| 17:12.46 | brlcad | tsk tsk :) |
| 17:13.52 | DTRemenak | baah |
| 17:15.34 | DTRemenak | that's what I get for adding a phrase right before I submit :( |
| 17:15.50 | brlcad | heh, your percentage is stil way over that other guy |
| 17:16.11 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 17:20.54 | eTangenT | alright |
| 17:21.01 | eTangenT | I posted a meshbox article, also |
| 17:21.03 | eTangenT | :) |
| 17:22.10 | gl2tosl2 | brlcad, in statistics, we spell it likelihood |
| 17:22.15 | brlcad | and eTangenT is on a roll! |
| 17:22.28 | eTangenT | brlcad: I'm trying to be useful |
| 17:22.31 | gl2tosl2 | ironically, that is what I am studying right this moment (that wasa bad pun) |
| 17:22.51 | eTangenT | I had to take 4 days off work and now I'm bored like none other |
| 17:22.55 | eTangenT | so may as well be useful :D |
| 17:23.33 | brlcad | excellent |
| 17:24.29 | Tupone | brlcad, where I can see submission? |
| 17:24.34 | eTangenT | also, I added color to the page for World Weapons |
| 17:24.44 | brlcad | Tupone: log in to the mentor dashboard |
| 17:24.51 | brlcad | http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_home.html |
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| 17:33.09 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 17:37.25 | TD-Linux | is it posted yet? |
| 17:37.39 | A_Heart_Attack | probably |
| 17:37.49 | TD-Linux | we need a better motto :P |
| 17:38.00 | TD-Linux | I think that's in use at about 500 other wiki sites |
| 17:38.03 | Bz_Win | be <b> |
| 17:38.24 | A_Heart_Attack | be <b /> |
| 17:38.25 | A_Heart_Attack | :P |
| 17:38.45 | eTangenT | posted now |
| 17:38.54 | Bz_Win_ | :P |
| 17:41.42 | eTangenT | :D |
| 17:42.01 | donny_baker | it's very addictive :) |
| 17:42.18 | eTangenT | indeed |
| 17:42.23 | eTangenT | I'll go find more stuff to add later |
| 17:43.40 | Bz_Win | but then again I am working on my own secrect project |
| 17:43.44 | Bz_Win | :D |
| 17:43.58 | donny_baker | hehe... how is posidon coming... or not |
| 17:44.06 | TD-Linux | w00t you even gave it the correct title, eTangenT |
| 17:44.09 | Bz_Win | not coming at all :p |
| 17:44.13 | TD-Linux | and categorized! |
| 17:44.18 | Bz_Win | infact, I saw it leave a while ago |
| 17:44.22 | TD-Linux | ~eTangenT++ |
| 17:44.27 | eTangenT | yeah, Donny showed me how to do that category stuff :D |
| 17:44.38 | TD-Linux | ~donny_baker++ |
| 17:44.51 | A_Heart_Attack | ~katma |
| 17:44.53 | A_Heart_Attack | wow |
| 17:44.55 | A_Heart_Attack | ~karma |
| 17:44.56 | ibot | a_heart_attack has karma of 1 |
| 17:44.58 | A_Heart_Attack | :) |
| 17:45.05 | Bz_Win | ~karma BZ_Win |
| 17:45.05 | ibot | bz_win has karma of -1 |
| 17:45.08 | Bz_Win | oh yeah |
| 17:45.09 | eTangenT | hey ibot, be nice |
| 17:45.19 | eTangenT | ~karma |
| 17:45.20 | ibot | etangent has karma of 1 |
| 17:45.20 | A_Heart_Attack | ~karma eTangenT |
| 17:45.20 | ibot | etangent has karma of 1 |
| 17:45.23 | A_Heart_Attack | lolz |
| 17:46.35 | TD-Linux | eTangenT: want to see some real fun? |
| 17:46.41 | eTangenT | oh boy |
| 17:46.42 | eTangenT | fun! |
| 17:46.43 | eTangenT | :D |
| 17:46.52 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-252-148.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:46.54 | Bz_Win | What is fun? |
| 17:47.08 | TD-Linux | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Ideas |
| 17:47.23 | TD-Linux | and append: |
| 17:47.26 | TD-Linux | ?action=edit |
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| 17:53.08 | eTangenT | what bzflag NEEDS (but I can't figure out how on earth I'm supposed to add this to that ideas page) is support for joysticks with more than 10 buttons |
| 17:53.11 | eTangenT | mine has 12 |
| 17:53.17 | eTangenT | all buttons up to 10 work fine :D |
| 17:53.20 | eTangenT | but not 11 and 12 |
| 17:53.39 | Bz_Win | Who needs more then 10 buttons? |
| 17:53.59 | eTangenT | people who want to assign buttons 8 10 and 12 for radar config! |
| 17:54.07 | eTangenT | because the three are in a vertical line! |
| 17:54.07 | Bz_Win | :O |
| 17:54.25 | Bz_Win | I never understood joystick, makes it hard to dodge |
| 17:54.58 | TD-Linux | I like joystick, mine has 12 also |
| 17:55.06 | TD-Linux | I think it's a SDL limitation |
| 17:55.22 | TD-Linux | mine is more of a gamepad |
| 17:55.32 | eTangenT | Bz_Win: at first it is, it's easier after that. |
| 17:55.32 | TD-Linux | with analog joysticks |
| 17:55.40 | eTangenT | I'm trying to practice with it more on Hepcat |
| 17:56.07 | Bz_Win | eTangent: Try playing GU with a joystick, you'll beg to differ :) |
| 17:56.11 | TD-Linux | I should build a PS2 controller interface sometime.... too bad the PS2 controller has round joystick paths rather than square :/ |
| 17:56.20 | eTangenT | Bz_Win: I tried playing GU all three ways |
| 17:56.35 | eTangenT | I still sucked :D |
| 17:56.40 | eTangenT | I did best with joystick |
| 17:56.54 | eTangenT | my turning is controlled by the Z-rotation |
| 17:57.15 | eTangenT | plus I play drums |
| 17:57.23 | eTangenT | so I can move a joystick around pretty quick |
| 17:57.35 | A_Heart_Attack | sam here! |
| 17:57.39 | A_Heart_Attack | i play the drums too |
| 17:57.41 | A_Heart_Attack | :) |
| 17:57.48 | eTangenT | ever been in marching band? |
| 18:02.13 | brlcad | TD-Linux: or just click on the "edit" tab |
| 18:02.58 | brlcad | eTangenT: latest CVS has support for up to 32 buttons |
| 18:03.10 | eTangenT | brlcad: really? |
| 18:03.20 | eTangenT | when did that get put in? |
| 18:03.33 | eTangenT | cuz I checked out CVS a couple days ago, so maybe itll work |
| 18:03.34 | brlcad | few months back |
| 18:03.43 | brlcad | latest cvs, not 2.0 |
| 18:03.49 | eTangenT | oh |
| 18:03.52 | *** join/#bzflag moriah (i=473101ad@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-7ad4fe3e42db0b48) |
| 18:03.59 | eTangenT | well, hurry and release 2.2 then :P |
| 18:04.18 | brlcad | 2.0 only supports 10 |
| 18:04.59 | eTangenT | yeah, I noticed that |
| 18:05.49 | TD-Linux | 2.2 doesn't have the "THAT'S SO COOL!" factor yet, so it probably won't be released for a while |
| 18:06.41 | brlcad | doesn't have to be "cool" every release |
| 18:06.51 | *** part/#bzflag moriah (i=473101ad@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-7ad4fe3e42db0b48) |
| 18:06.56 | eTangenT | TD-Linux: It has support for 32 buttons! |
| 18:06.59 | brlcad | especially when the changes under the hood fix critical problems :) |
| 18:06.59 | eTangenT | THAT'S SO COOL! |
| 18:07.09 | TD-Linux | I guess, 2.0.8 was totally boring :) |
| 18:07.42 | Gnurdux | server side death yet? |
| 18:07.49 | TD-Linux | I think JeffM2501 wants the server side bots and the hot team switching (at least to observer and back) done |
| 18:08.14 | TD-Linux | I haven't seen anyone else describe their goals yet |
| 18:08.58 | brlcad | bzauthd |
| 18:09.02 | TD-Linux | that bzflag wiki motto looks really ugly, and I haven't got it fixed yet |
| 18:09.17 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 18:13.35 | TD-Linux | .... what??? |
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| 18:14.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 18:14.42 | brlcad | have the module, pull up the server list, extract details about the server, pull the map, run the bz2pov on http://bzflag.tuxee.net .. queue up the image for rendering.. display it in a server gallery.. |
| 18:14.47 | cods | My converter only support old bzflag map |
| 18:16.11 | cods | Creating a new bz2pov for the 2.x is not that hard.. but it would be long to code, and I don't have enough time. |
| 18:16.18 | brlcad | so have it detect when it fails and skip -- that'd still get 80% of servers |
| 18:16.45 | brlcad | then someone else could look into fixing the converter |
| 18:17.01 | TD-Linux | import to blender, export to povrahy |
| 18:17.24 | brlcad | there's bzw importer for bzw? |
| 18:17.29 | brlcad | s/for bzw/for blender/ |
| 18:17.30 | cods | Anyway I'm on #bzflag to keep an eye about what happen about this game, but otherwise I've not played/used/.. bzflag for a verrry long time. |
| 18:17.58 | brlcad | cods: that's the case for lots of folks, you're in good company ;) |
| 18:18.32 | brlcad | are bz2pov sources available anywhere? |
| 18:19.12 | brlcad | TD-Linux: afaik, the only thing that reads the new bzw format is bzflag itself and a parser I wrote many months ago |
| 18:20.25 | cods | brlcad: of course it is available :) Wait a minute, I will extract it from my arch repo (which is probably down atm) |
| 18:21.35 | eTangenT | alright |
| 18:22.13 | cods | brlcad: from september 2004, http://tuxee.net/bz2pov.txt |
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| 18:34.33 | TD-Linux | the blender importer doesn't? |
| 18:34.37 | TD-Linux | oh, do you mean drawinfo? |
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| 18:46.36 | eTangenT | so in the Wiki, recently updated thing... what does the +1200 or -7 thing mean? |
| 18:48.40 | brad | eTangenT: how many letters were added/removed |
| 18:48.54 | eTangenT | ah |
| 18:48.59 | eTangenT | I thought it was some karma thing. |
| 18:49.09 | brad | heh |
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| 19:30.40 | romfis | good that here? www.bzflag.at LoL |
| 19:31.18 | romfis | nice or? |
| 19:32.07 | romfis | is for Google Summer of Code ;) |
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| 19:33.41 | blast007 | romfis :) |
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| 21:16.01 | pianoboy3333 | When's the next version of bzflag coming out? |
| 21:16.17 | Hannibal | 10'when its done' |
| 21:17.00 | LongDon | heh |
| 21:17.58 | Bz_Win | "when's it done?" :p |
| 21:18.26 | tupone_laptop | After a while, we take sometime to ship. So not when, but after |
| 21:19.04 | Hannibal | 10so it won't be released when its done? :( |
| 21:19.21 | tupone_laptop | I think a week later |
| 21:21.26 | Bz_Win | so will you finish a week early? |
| 21:25.01 | CBG | no, Bz_Win, but the next version will be OUT a week after it is DONE. |
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| 22:33.42 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10web/document.php: link to the new wiki, not the old |
| 22:37.05 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/bzrobots/ (botplaying.cxx bzrobots.cxx): update to latest client changes, presume UDP, new debug style. |
| 22:37.19 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Take all things from the world. |
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| 22:42.27 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03atupone 07v2_0_cs_branch * 10bzflag/data/ (tank.xml world): Make tank a genmesh, and apply a red mimetic |
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| 22:51.05 | DTRemenak | TD-Linux: now that is what old should look like :) |
| 22:51.09 | DTRemenak | ~TD-Linux++ |
| 22:51.44 | tupone_laptop | http://my.bzflag.org/w/CrystalSpace_client :/ unproductive week end |
| 22:51.49 | donny_baker | yeah, but lets get a bigger image of it too, to put on the hisrory page |
| 22:52.08 | donny_baker | s/hisrory/history/ |
| 22:52.34 | donny_baker | tupone: nice red tanks :) |
| 22:52.55 | tupone_laptop | :) |
| 22:53.03 | eTangenT | that's pretty sweet, tupone |
| 22:53.15 | tupone_laptop | all tanks are red now |
| 22:53.19 | donny_baker | are they still a little small, or is it a tall wall |
| 22:53.39 | tupone_laptop | I think they should be scaled |
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| 23:09.40 | brlcad | now that's just beautiful: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Special:Recentchanges |
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| 23:10.21 | DTRemenak | brlcad: beautiful? |
| 23:10.29 | brlcad | all the activity |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | all the authors |
| 23:10.37 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 23:10.38 | donny_baker | brlcad: I use that page several times a day :) |
| 23:11.27 | brlcad | 10 authors in just 2 days |
| 23:14.01 | donny_baker | i'm hoping to stir up more, I'm trying to think of ideas to get people to the site |
| 23:14.21 | brlcad | oh neat.. even part time graduate students are eligible in GSoC... |
| 23:14.22 | donny_baker | that was why I put the Be Bold on the main page |
| 23:14.36 | brlcad | donny_baker: did you update the game news? |
| 23:14.48 | donny_baker | game news? |
| 23:14.52 | brlcad | motd |
| 23:15.04 | donny_baker | I don't know where to do that |
| 23:15.11 | brlcad | mysql :) |
| 23:16.35 | DTRemenak | wasn't someone(tm) working on a revamped motd frontend? |
| 23:21.41 | blast007 | ;) |
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| 23:28.59 | tcoppi | brlcad: I guess my main question is how well the client/server api is documented |
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| 23:36.49 | brlcad | tcoppi: it's fairly well documented, though has been in flux quite a bit recently as data has been moved server-side |
| 23:37.10 | brlcad | for that AI task, though, you really wouldn't be concerned with the network protocol |
| 23:37.48 | brlcad | the idea would be to either hook in a headless scriptable client or a server mod that acted like a client |
| 23:43.55 | LongDon | brlcad: We do need the groups in ldap too. Am i right? |
| 23:46.54 | brlcad | yes, definitely |
| 23:47.23 | brlcad | doesn't have to be exactly the same as phpbb has it sorted out, but there is the same need for general group management |
| 23:47.30 | brlcad | hierarchical groups would be sweet |
| 23:47.49 | brlcad | and very useful for certain purposes |
| 23:48.18 | tcoppi | brlcad: ok, so basically the problem is developing a client and an interface to it that can be used to create AI bots? |
| 23:48.19 | brlcad | minimally, though, old-style unix group membership lists |
| 23:48.38 | brlcad | tcoppi: yes, very much so |
| 23:48.48 | tcoppi | with emphasis on the interface |
| 23:48.55 | brlcad | that could just be a well-rounded C++ api for coding bots, or could be extended to be a scripting layer on top as well |
| 23:49.43 | LongDon | brlcad: unix style is no problem. atm i do not know if hiearchical groups can be done with ldap |
| 23:49.46 | tcoppi | ok, thanks for the help |
| 23:50.29 | LongDon | or better: how hard it is to implement it ;) |
| 23:50.42 | brlcad | basically/minimally two steps .. 1) clean up existing headless client, make sure it works, etc, 2) create api for controlling a bot (e.g. emulating the robodoc jave API), and then optionally 3) layer a scripting/command engine for controlling the bots |
| 23:51.14 | brlcad | LongDon: I know ldap can do hierarchical .. it's a matter of whether the web apps like phpbb would understand them |
| 23:51.51 | tcoppi | brlcad: can you point me to the code for an existing headless client? |
| 23:52.12 | brlcad | LongDon: might not even be worth it to worry about .. but if it takes just a couple hours to verify, that would probably be worth it |
| 23:52.22 | brlcad | tcoppi: src/bzrobots |
| 23:52.41 | LongDon | phpbb only does auth. It does not get the groups from ldap |
| 23:52.42 | tcoppi | brlcad: is that in 1.0.8 or cvs? |
| 23:52.45 | brlcad | cvs |
| 23:52.51 | brlcad | LongDon: ah |
| 23:53.14 | LongDon | I tried with drupal to get the groups but that didnt work too |
| 23:53.17 | brlcad | no big deal I suppose.. we don't really use phpbb groups in bzbb extensively |
| 23:53.34 | brlcad | drupal can be customized, not "too" worried about them |
| 23:53.45 | brlcad | their plugin infrastructure is pretty robust |
| 23:54.02 | LongDon | But we have to find a way how bzauthd knows about the groups for authentication. Right? |
| 23:54.48 | brlcad | tcoppi: the existing client is done by one of the byu instructors, based on the work that they already use for their AI courses |
| 23:54.51 | brlcad | http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/ |
| 23:54.52 | LongDon | so phpbb must be patched to read and write groups from ldap |
| 23:55.36 | brlcad | LongDon: at least read, not necessarily write |
| 23:55.49 | tcoppi | brlcad: oh cool |
| 23:56.15 | LongDon | ok. Then my script will move the groups from phpbb to ldap too |
| 23:56.26 | LongDon | ty |
| 23:57.03 | brlcad | tcoppi: so yeah, the idea is to take that effort to the next level -- polish up the code, make a proper/clean API, and hopefully get to making it scriptable |
| 23:57.21 | brlcad | LongDon: cool |
| 23:58.20 | tcoppi | ok, I get it now :) |
| 23:59.11 | brlcad | tcoppi: the BYU approach of a "remote agent" is still perfectly viable too, though there needs to be a beefing up of that text protocol that they started (and a cleaning up), as well as a cleanup of the underlying C++ api so that compile-time bots can be made |
| 23:59.28 | brlcad | i'm not sure how much of that made it into CVS |
| 23:59.55 | brlcad | maybe all, maybe not -- hasn't been used in production |
