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| 00:06.04 | A-Delusion | There is still no material definition on the .bzw manpage. |
| 00:09.20 | brlcad | so fix it |
| 00:09.28 | brlcad | make a patch |
| 00:11.43 | brlcad | *crickets* |
| 00:15.45 | trepan | it's there, you just can't see it |
| 00:17.55 | blast007 | the web stuff isn't totally right |
| 00:18.14 | blast007 | bzfman.cgi doesn't seem to work 100% |
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| 02:04.12 | A-Delusion | ~seen orthox |
| 02:04.35 | ibot | orthox is currently on #bzflag (2d 2h 49s) #pillbox (2d 2h 49s) ##essy (2d 2h 49s), last said: '~roulette'. |
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| 03:16.39 | findlay | what would cause a consistent 300 ms error on lag? |
| 03:17.30 | findlay | this isp's screwed up my voip as well |
| 03:17.39 | findlay | with their crazy firewall |
| 03:17.40 | findlay | ): |
| 03:18.02 | findlay | I wish there were non-windows isps out there |
| 03:19.18 | PuMpErNiCkEl | Unless you live in BFN, you should be able to find a small, local ISP that piggybacks on the telco / cable lines and offers non-retarded service. |
| 03:20.13 | findlay | unfortunately not. The apartment complex is in tight with the isp which runs over municipal fiber |
| 03:20.38 | findlay | I guess I could buy service over the phone line or the cable, but I'm too cheap (: |
| 03:21.17 | findlay | someday I'll have xmission on utopia and this will all be over |
| 03:25.20 | brlcad | findlay: lots of stuff can cause that |
| 03:25.53 | brlcad | though you should at least make sure you've got low ping on your own network |
| 03:26.59 | findlay | brlcad: it's consistently +/- 300 ms on every server I've tried for about 5 servers |
| 03:29.26 | brlcad | you missed the point, you should at least make sure you've got long ping on your own network |
| 03:29.49 | brlcad | attach a second computer to your router, ping between the two .. see what the latency looks like |
| 03:30.05 | findlay | 1 ms to the apartment router, 3 ms to the isp, 87 ms to google |
| 03:30.07 | *** join/#bzflag Bluer (n=user@about/essy/terimahkSC/Bluer) |
| 03:30.09 | brlcad | start a bzfs for that matter on one and bzflag client on the other |
| 03:30.51 | brlcad | so unloaded sounds like you should be fine.. do the ping times stay the same if you're playing? |
| 03:31.21 | findlay | let's see ... |
| 03:31.22 | brlcad | they should |
| 03:31.46 | A-Delusion | trepan, I see it now. |
| 03:32.55 | findlay | yes |
| 03:33.45 | findlay | hm, now I'm getting about 900 ms error |
| 03:33.52 | findlay | in bzflag |
| 03:37.04 | findlay | maybe there's a way to simulate bzflag udp packets with icmp |
| 03:37.19 | findlay | or not even icmp if necessary |
| 03:56.23 | Bluer | is there a way to use a standard animation export format and incorporate it in map creation? |
| 03:56.42 | Bluer | or texture coordinates |
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| 03:59.29 | Bluer | text mapping is a bit difficult, especially when one has to reload the map. Would it be much effort to try to adapt to standard formats? especially in animation export formats. Moving objects would make bzflag maps more vivid |
| 04:07.07 | Bluer | the answer would probably be another exporter. But is it not the time to just change and take another approach? I'm no programmer, so I can't imagine how technically difficult it would be to do this, but why a new format? is it not better to just use standards? |
| 04:07.44 | Bluer | is the bzflag protocol the same as the original one by chris? or has it changed. With protocol I mean the way the client renders the maps |
| 04:09.40 | Bluer | its true the game is quite simple, and incorporating complex objects wouldn't be necessary, or even unwanted in some cases for older systems. But this seems like the natural next step if you asked me |
| 04:11.29 | Bluer | and the make it yourself thingie. I'm not complaining or criticizing, I'm merely saying whats on my mind |
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| 04:29.30 | JeffM2501 | we can't do moving stuff now cus we can't sync |
| 04:29.37 | JeffM2501 | the proto isn't exactly the same but it's very similar |
| 04:29.49 | JeffM2501 | there isn't realy a "starndard" format that does all the stuff we need |
| 04:30.01 | JeffM2501 | complex maps should be done in a high level editor, like blender |
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| 04:38.36 | [NP]Tangent | JeffM2501, shows what you know |
| 04:38.40 | [NP]Tangent | real men use Kate for map making |
| 04:39.31 | blast007 | [NP]Tangent: let me know when you can model the titanic in a text editor |
| 04:39.35 | JeffM2501 | it's just harder to get the complex stuff :) |
| 04:39.42 | JeffM2501 | as you yourself have said :) |
| 04:40.28 | a_meteorite | I heard louman do a lot in an editor |
| 04:40.32 | JeffM2501 | text is fine for boxes and pyramids, but to move to the next logical step as Bluer indicates, you run out of the realm of man readable maps |
| 04:40.33 | a_meteorite | *does |
| 04:40.36 | [NP]Tangent | JeffM2501, not once you figure out what you're doing |
| 04:40.43 | [NP]Tangent | when you've never used a texture before, it's a bit tricky |
| 04:40.45 | JeffM2501 | louman uses lightwave for primary modeling |
| 04:40.53 | [NP]Tangent | but now that I know how it works, it should be a bit easier |
| 04:40.55 | JeffM2501 | then hand edits in optimisations |
| 04:40.56 | a_meteorite | hmm, doesn't he do quite a bit in text? |
| 04:41.08 | JeffM2501 | he does the bzflag specifics in text yes |
| 04:41.12 | JeffM2501 | but he dosn't model in text |
| 04:41.15 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 04:41.33 | [NP]Tangent | not a bad idea |
| 04:41.36 | JeffM2501 | on his maps those specifics are a small % of the total map text |
| 04:41.39 | [NP]Tangent | I might do that, I do have blender, after all |
| 04:42.12 | JeffM2501 | the only "standard" format for a game world that I know that could come close is a quake map |
| 04:42.24 | JeffM2501 | and a bsp and pvs isn't the best thing for exteriors |
| 04:43.17 | [NP]Tangent | maybe I'll open blender this weekend and make mushrooms in my map |
| 04:44.15 | Bluer | is it possible for modeltool to export texture coordinates, as well as movement of a standard format?, say blender scene or OBJ+MOV ? |
| 04:44.34 | JeffM2501 | the problem with movement isn't the format |
| 04:44.38 | JeffM2501 | it's with bzflag ;) |
| 04:44.50 | Bluer | oh |
| 04:45.06 | JeffM2501 | there are a couple of formats we could read that suport vertex and bone based animations |
| 04:45.19 | JeffM2501 | but we can't at the current time sync an action on 2 difrent clients |
| 04:45.29 | JeffM2501 | as we have 0 lag compensation |
| 04:45.34 | a_meteorite | it'd be nice though |
| 04:45.44 | JeffM2501 | so would not having god mode cheaters :) |
| 04:45.48 | JeffM2501 | lots of things would be nice :) |
| 04:46.07 | JeffM2501 | since the client handles the entire state, if we can't sync the movement of stuff, one person may see a rico where another won't |
| 04:46.09 | A-Delusion | lots |
| 04:46.22 | JeffM2501 | if an object moves out of the way at the last second, and isnt' synced |
| 04:46.46 | a_meteorite | we only want real-world physics in bzflag ;) (j/k) |
| 04:46.47 | JeffM2501 | in fact the only reason our current rico works is because the world IS static |
| 04:48.06 | JeffM2501 | with the static world the path of a shot computed form a position and vector is the same for everyone regardless of lag |
| 04:48.23 | JeffM2501 | they just may see it at difrent points allong that path at any one time, but the path is the same. |
| 04:48.32 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 04:48.34 | JeffM2501 | same reason we can't do rico off tanks |
| 04:48.46 | blast007 | so really, the server should computer the rico, right? |
| 04:48.53 | blast007 | er, compute* |
| 04:48.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 04:49.03 | JeffM2501 | or we have a better state sync |
| 04:49.16 | JeffM2501 | and allow in flight strat updates |
| 04:49.19 | JeffM2501 | for when stuff moves |
| 04:49.33 | JeffM2501 | probalby need all of it to cover all the cases |
| 04:49.41 | JeffM2501 | quake can do it cus the server runs everyone's game state |
| 04:49.44 | JeffM2501 | the client dosn't even have one |
| 04:50.01 | a_meteorite | but if clients computed syncs we'd have the same problems as now with cheating |
| 04:50.07 | a_meteorite | yeah, that too.. |
| 04:50.22 | JeffM2501 | the only way to compute a sync is with the server |
| 04:50.29 | JeffM2501 | it's the only system with a state and a lag of 0 |
| 04:50.33 | a_meteorite | ah ok |
| 04:50.44 | a_meteorite | I don't have any game theory, so.. :( |
| 04:50.55 | JeffM2501 | read up, it's not rocket science ;) |
| 04:51.09 | a_meteorite | hehe |
| 04:51.15 | A-Delusion | i don't think bluer is talking about moving objects, as much as moving textures on objects, and using his 3-d modeler, to see the textures |
| 04:51.19 | a_meteorite | it makes sense when it's told ot me |
| 04:51.30 | a_meteorite | but if I was assigned to actually do something.. :\ |
| 04:51.33 | JeffM2501 | if we wanted a vertex animated format I'd pick MD3 as there are converters and tools for all OSs |
| 04:51.39 | Bluer | JeffM2501, if someone would want to merely populate his map with objects to make it more lively, why sync? the tanks won't interact with the objects anyway |
| 04:52.04 | JeffM2501 | Bluer what do you mean by "objects" then? |
| 04:52.16 | JeffM2501 | we've talked about adding fluff objects that don't need sync |
| 04:52.21 | JeffM2501 | but tere are more important things |
| 04:52.44 | Bluer | say an object that has a complex texture on it |
| 04:52.49 | Bluer | a house |
| 04:52.58 | JeffM2501 | A-Delusion there sadly arn't any editors I know that support modeling of animated textures. |
| 04:53.02 | Bluer | with an old wooden roof, mirrors and a door |
| 04:53.04 | JeffM2501 | you can do that now |
| 04:53.06 | JeffM2501 | with a mesh |
| 04:53.31 | Bluer | export with its texturing coordinates? |
| 04:53.36 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 04:53.53 | JeffM2501 | both the blender plugin and model tool support UVs |
| 04:54.15 | JeffM2501 | modeltool will read the full mat file for the obj |
| 04:54.28 | Bluer | oh, thats nice to know |
| 04:54.29 | JeffM2501 | and does UV conversations, creating the bzflag materials |
| 04:54.37 | JeffM2501 | that's how louman does all his maps |
| 04:54.40 | JeffM2501 | with meshes |
| 04:55.07 | JeffM2501 | modeltool also supports converting quake3 maps |
| 04:55.14 | Bluer | ok, something me and someone are trying to do, simulate fire. Now for this we need moving textures, can we do this in blender and export the mesh with its moving texturs coordinates? |
| 04:55.16 | JeffM2501 | with materials |
| 04:55.42 | JeffM2501 | we have texture matrix modifiers |
| 04:55.50 | JeffM2501 | but yes, that is an area where we are weak |
| 04:56.01 | JeffM2501 | meshes were just added in 2.0 |
| 04:56.06 | Bluer | oh |
| 04:56.12 | JeffM2501 | louman has done fire |
| 04:56.31 | A-Delusion | we're trying to do better |
| 04:56.42 | JeffM2501 | better UV animations and particle systems would be good additions, but I think after we get the server situation fixed up |
| 04:57.36 | DTRemenak | or alternately, patches welcome |
| 04:57.47 | JeffM2501 | I think the big problem we had as developers with adding more maping stuff, was it was taking people a long time to get used to meshes |
| 04:57.51 | a_meteorite | ~patches |
| 04:57.59 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah if you want to work on it, have at it :) |
| 04:58.09 | JeffM2501 | but only a few mapers are just now exploring what meshes realy can do |
| 04:58.21 | a_meteorite | ~patches is patches welcome |
| 04:58.22 | ibot | a_meteorite: I think you lost me on that one |
| 04:58.22 | DTRemenak | just because we don't think it's a priority right now, doesn't mean we wouldn't check in a patch :) |
| 04:58.27 | a_meteorite | :\ |
| 04:58.30 | DTRemenak | ~pw |
| 04:58.33 | ibot | methinks patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 04:58.35 | JeffM2501 | so it's probalby good to let 2.2 have the same maping system as 2.0, and work on other stuff |
| 04:58.40 | DTRemenak | that what you're looking for? |
| 04:58.46 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 04:58.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah, if it was all done, and cool, it'd be commited |
| 04:59.06 | a_meteorite | 1.x is still a good mapping platform |
| 04:59.17 | JeffM2501 | but as you said, you were not a programer, so I don't think that was the way you were lookin to go |
| 04:59.20 | a_meteorite | if you notice some of the greatest servers still are using 1.x majority maps |
| 04:59.40 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite that's not cus 1.x was some golden child |
| 04:59.47 | JeffM2501 | that is because blender is hard |
| 04:59.54 | JeffM2501 | and a lot of mapers didn't "get" meshes |
| 04:59.58 | JeffM2501 | so they still just use boxes |
| 05:00.02 | a_meteorite | even louman's maps don't stay... |
| 05:00.04 | JeffM2501 | cus that's what they have a bzedit for |
| 05:00.15 | a_meteorite | they're impressive, but it's all about the looks, *imho* |
| 05:00.17 | JeffM2501 | not all servers are popular for there maps |
| 05:00.24 | JeffM2501 | there are other reasons |
| 05:00.28 | a_meteorite | true |
| 05:00.29 | DTRemenak | you can get fine play from a boxes-and-pyramids map |
| 05:00.36 | JeffM2501 | this discussion was about taking maping further |
| 05:00.38 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:00.46 | JeffM2501 | fast, well maintained servers, are what is fun |
| 05:00.46 | a_meteorite | but I betcha if I uploaded a louman's map now and gave it the same promotion as boxy war it wouldn't work well :) |
| 05:00.58 | JeffM2501 | be an interesting test |
| 05:01.14 | Bluer | DTRemenak, yes. If I could I would. I'm studying programming at school, and opengl in my spare time. maybe in a year time I will do some work. I was being very polite, so the "do it yourself" thingie wasn't necessary at all |
| 05:01.32 | JeffM2501 | complex mesh maps screw up the radar crutch people too :) |
| 05:01.34 | a_meteorite | synced objects with some "triggers" for actions WOULD be nice |
| 05:01.34 | DTRemenak | Bluer: that was certainly not what I intended |
| 05:01.57 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite you keep saying that |
| 05:02.04 | a_meteorite | yes, I'm saying it'd be nice |
| 05:02.06 | JeffM2501 | code don't write itself ;) |
| 05:02.07 | JeffM2501 | we know |
| 05:02.08 | Bluer | oh, I'm sorry for then. |
| 05:02.15 | DTRemenak | Bluer: Jeff had said we wouldn't do it just yet. I was modifying that statement with, "but, if you'd like to, you're welcome to" |
| 05:02.20 | a_meteorite | only if code grew on trees.. |
| 05:02.23 | Bluer | s/for// |
| 05:02.37 | DTRemenak | sometimes people get the impression that just because we aren't working on some feature we aren't interested |
| 05:02.39 | DTRemenak | which is not the case |
| 05:02.40 | Bluer | DTRemenak: oh, I see. |
| 05:02.41 | JeffM2501 | vertex anims for non collidables could be easy |
| 05:02.53 | JeffM2501 | could maybe work that into 2.2 if I got the fever |
| 05:03.16 | JeffM2501 | just run it thru it's anims, build a max bbox and use that for the octree |
| 05:04.56 | JeffM2501 | the holiday break would normaly be good for that too |
| 05:05.31 | A-Delusion | well I've seen trepan's drawinfo test map with the sprockets, and the ball that flies through the hoop. If he can do that, why is it impossible to make a door, just the client synch? |
| 05:05.59 | A-Delusion | just a door that opens and closes |
| 05:07.10 | JeffM2501 | his stuff was non collidable |
| 05:07.41 | A-Delusion | he said it could be |
| 05:07.41 | JeffM2501 | a door you'd want to be collidable |
| 05:07.41 | JeffM2501 | sure anything is possible |
| 05:07.45 | JeffM2501 | IIRC he was talking about using static collision volumes |
| 05:08.00 | DTRemenak | you could sync it |
| 05:08.02 | JeffM2501 | I'm not saying it's "impossibile" |
| 05:08.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:08.06 | DTRemenak | could is a big word |
| 05:08.25 | JeffM2501 | I'm just saying right now with the current code we have in the server, and all the trust of the clients, we'd not get the states right |
| 05:08.33 | DTRemenak | actually it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to get within as reasonable an approximation of synced as the rest of our game state is |
| 05:08.38 | DTRemenak | which is to say, not very well |
| 05:08.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:08.58 | JeffM2501 | we minimse the problems in our syncs by having a static world |
| 05:09.05 | A-Delusion | maybe it just slams shut, all at once |
| 05:09.26 | JeffM2501 | A-Delusion we'd have to add code to change the world, so why not sync it too |
| 05:09.54 | JeffM2501 | syncing isn't that hard, we just don't do it right now |
| 05:10.09 | JeffM2501 | and 2.0.x client can't do it |
| 05:10.34 | A-Delusion | i spent 3 days with that drawinfo map, it was a lot of fun, lots of unexpected results. too bad I didnt learn a thing from the experience |
| 05:10.50 | JeffM2501 | trepan did a lot of cool stuff |
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| 05:10.54 | JeffM2501 | he's a very smart man |
| 05:11.54 | A-Delusion | at one point the one shere became 8 spheres, all turning in new trajectories, I was dumbfounded |
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| 05:12.44 | JeffM2501 | fun with texture matrixes IIRC :) |
| 05:34.25 | *** join/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=prolix@cpe-66-74-196-54.san.res.rr.com) |
| 05:34.56 | daniel_jackson | hey anyone alive in here? lol |
| 05:35.04 | DTRemenak | nope, all dead |
| 05:35.07 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 05:35.08 | daniel_jackson | oh ok |
| 05:35.11 | DTRemenak | someone set off a nuke |
| 05:35.18 | daniel_jackson | oh ok |
| 05:37.03 | daniel_jackson | I was just compiling bzflag-2.0.8 on my amd64, and I know about the "-m64" trick, but Rawk told me the was another way to fix the "bullets pass through bug" |
| 05:37.26 | JeffM2501 | use cvs code |
| 05:37.43 | daniel_jackson | I guess |
| 05:37.53 | JeffM2501 | no really |
| 05:37.56 | JeffM2501 | it has a code fix |
| 05:37.59 | JeffM2501 | to fix that bug |
| 05:38.01 | daniel_jackson | oh ok |
| 05:38.09 | daniel_jackson | the 2.0.9? |
| 05:38.23 | JeffM2501 | that's the version of cvs yes |
| 05:38.26 | JeffM2501 | for branch |
| 05:38.58 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 05:39.00 | JeffM2501 | ww |
| 05:39.02 | daniel_jackson | oh ok and the "modulename" will be bzflag-2.0.9 |
| 05:39.06 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 05:39.14 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is the module name |
| 05:39.21 | JeffM2501 | use v2_0branch as the tag |
| 05:39.28 | daniel_jackson | well I did use that and I got 2.1.10 |
| 05:39.36 | daniel_jackson | oh ok |
| 05:39.36 | JeffM2501 | not if you used the tag |
| 05:39.43 | JeffM2501 | after the co before the bzflag |
| 05:39.50 | JeffM2501 | put -r v2_0branch |
| 05:39.51 | daniel_jackson | theres my problem! :) |
| 05:39.54 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 05:40.00 | daniel_jackson | oh ok thanks |
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| 05:40.46 | daniel_jackson | I'm going to take off you guys practice being alive! lol |
| 05:41.03 | daniel_jackson | cu later |
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| 05:53.14 | daniel_jackson | sry jeff I'm a little absent minded, from putting up christmas lights all day long, can you repeat that switch and directory for me |
| 05:53.41 | a_meteorite | copy/paste works wonders ;) |
| 05:53.42 | JeffM2501 | the directory is the same |
| 05:53.53 | JeffM2501 | the checkout command is idenetical |
| 05:53.55 | a_meteorite | -r v2_0branch after co and before bzflag |
| 05:53.58 | JeffM2501 | you just add one thing |
| 05:53.59 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 05:54.04 | JeffM2501 | it's just a tag |
| 05:54.08 | daniel_jackson | I put it in the wrong order |
| 05:54.47 | daniel_jackson | I did -r Branch_v2.0 |
| 05:55.04 | a_meteorite | heh.. |
| 05:55.25 | JeffM2501 | that would be wrong |
| 05:55.59 | daniel_jackson | Yeah I figured that one out the hard way! |
| 05:56.02 | daniel_jackson | :) |
| 05:56.51 | daniel_jackson | well thanks again |
| 05:58.48 | daniel_jackson | ok I got it downloaded |
| 05:59.33 | daniel_jackson | let me ask you this, why would you compile with the "-O6" option |
| 06:00.08 | daniel_jackson | wouldn't that make you more prone to bugs, with the optimization? |
| 06:00.19 | a_meteorite | um |
| 06:00.23 | daniel_jackson | lol |
| 06:00.24 | a_meteorite | there is no optimization that high |
| 06:00.48 | a_meteorite | or wait.. |
| 06:01.08 | daniel_jackson | I found a report where the guy uses -O1, -O2, -O6 |
| 06:01.09 | a_meteorite | says it's the same as -O2 |
| 06:01.16 | a_meteorite | *-O3 |
| 06:01.30 | a_meteorite | -O3 is the highest, but I think it increases disk and memory useage |
| 06:01.35 | daniel_jackson | is that from the man page? |
| 06:01.39 | PuMpErNiCkEl | daniel_jackson: Was the guy a Gentoo user? ^^ |
| 06:01.40 | a_meteorite | can't remember for sure which each consequences are |
| 06:02.24 | daniel_jackson | I think so, I did a search through google, and I found his report |
| 06:02.47 | PuMpErNiCkEl | If that's the article I'm thinking of, it's a spoof. |
| 06:02.51 | a_meteorite | daniel_jackson: other hosting didn't pull through |
| 06:03.06 | daniel_jackson | thats not good |
| 06:03.10 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 06:29.28 | Flash | ~bz20cvs |
| 06:29.30 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
| 06:29.55 | Flash | daniel_jackson: that was for you |
| 06:30.41 | daniel_jackson | thanks flash I got it |
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| 09:58.27 | Manu | brlcad: only for your eyes -> http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9585 |
| 10:00.04 | Birdie | lol |
| 10:00.11 | Manu | :) |
| 10:01.22 | Manu | Birdie: now CBG isn't here to reply ;) |
| 10:02.21 | Birdie | hehe but i would recommand you to do it in PM though:D |
| 10:02.44 | Manu | I did, it was a private message :p |
| 10:02.53 | Birdie | hehe |
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| 13:18.30 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp || paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || CVS HEAD is 2.1 and for all new commits || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 |
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| 15:21.15 | biggeruniverse | hola |
| 15:21.47 | biggeruniverse | of those available, is there a complete list of the things wrong/enhancements wished for bzfs? |
| 15:22.39 | brlcad | there's lots of ideas and some plans, but not necessarily specific to bzfs |
| 15:22.54 | biggeruniverse | hmm |
| 15:23.04 | brlcad | most of the casual ideas are in the TODO file |
| 15:23.26 | brlcad | but it approaches it from the perspective of features, not necessarily server or client |
| 15:23.38 | brlcad | some changes affect both |
| 15:24.23 | biggeruniverse | right |
| 15:24.38 | brlcad | there's plenty that can be done to bzfs, loads of refactoring |
| 15:24.43 | biggeruniverse | well, I know there are things "wrong" with the server, like passdb |
| 15:24.46 | brlcad | better networking, better organization |
| 15:24.55 | biggeruniverse | yes, that's what I saw |
| 15:27.00 | brlcad | the biggest "fundamental" issue that immediately comes to mind with the server is that it only has the one main run loop, one synchronized run-path per iteration |
| 15:27.22 | brlcad | that approach in general is quite error prone to stalling other portions of the run loop when something takes a while to compute |
| 15:27.56 | brlcad | like if the network is overwhelmed, it'll be spending too much time in the network handling and not enough time in the game logic |
| 15:28.22 | brlcad | or if filtering is enabled on a slow machine, it might be spending too long scanning text messages versus networking and/or game logic |
| 15:29.08 | brlcad | the point being that it's just one loop and events occuring in sequence, so there are bits of timing code throughout the server that are added to compensate |
| 15:29.25 | brlcad | to make sure that no single task is taking too long, like finding a spawn position |
| 15:29.37 | brlcad | it's a good bad thing, but a fundamental limitation |
| 15:30.31 | biggeruniverse | right |
| 15:30.38 | biggeruniverse | I'm noting this down ;) |
| 15:31.21 | biggeruniverse | so pthreads (hard to debug), or protothreads(tricky)? |
| 15:31.41 | biggeruniverse | Anyway, that's beside the point |
| 15:31.55 | biggeruniverse | Ok, so big things I noticed was- |
| 15:32.02 | brlcad | threading has not been done for a variety of charged reasons |
| 15:32.11 | biggeruniverse | 1. no game state-awareness |
| 15:32.20 | biggeruniverse | understood |
| 15:32.22 | brlcad | not that it'd be good or bad, entirely depends on the implementation and familiarity of the devs to deal with it |
| 15:32.42 | brlcad | there are other approachs that would easily break the single run-loop though without using pthreads regardless |
| 15:33.09 | brlcad | it has no game-state awareness because it doesn't (yet) have a game to be aware of |
| 15:33.14 | biggeruniverse | 2. wonky security/access model |
| 15:33.14 | brlcad | it was originally just a relay |
| 15:33.31 | brlcad | it's slowly having game state added as client logic is moved server-side |
| 15:33.34 | biggeruniverse | yeah, which it's good at |
| 15:34.02 | biggeruniverse | 3. limited configurability |
| 15:34.21 | biggeruniverse | (don't take that wrong, just in terms of grouping, rights, etc. |
| 15:34.21 | biggeruniverse | ) |
| 15:34.31 | biggeruniverse | I keep forgetting to balance my parens |
| 15:34.58 | brlcad | i wouldn't agree with the latter, it's pretty configurable as it is |
| 15:35.05 | biggeruniverse | ok |
| 15:35.54 | biggeruniverse | 3. (this affects the client too) can't change world without reconnect of client |
| 15:36.22 | biggeruniverse | 4. generic resource handling to client (models, textures, sounds, etc) |
| 15:36.42 | brlcad | if that's what you mean by configurable, then maybe, but that's a stretch imo to including dynamic worlds |
| 15:36.49 | biggeruniverse | * restart of server(?) and reconnect of client |
| 15:37.23 | biggeruniverse | well, not dynamic, just admin uses /changemap from client to switch worlds mid-game |
| 15:37.31 | biggeruniverse | you know? |
| 15:37.36 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:38.08 | biggeruniverse | everyone keeps score(optionally), they just start playing on a different map (a la silvercat) |
| 15:38.31 | biggeruniverse | the last two require client modification too |
| 15:39.02 | brlcad | heh, pretty much all the ones you listed require some sort of client modification |
| 15:39.23 | biggeruniverse | yeah, trye |
| 15:39.25 | biggeruniverse | *true |
| 15:39.39 | biggeruniverse | some more than others |
| 15:39.56 | brlcad | as is always the case |
| 15:41.53 | brlcad | moving logic from client to server is probably the most important immediate task.. but that's also the most complex -- it's not something that's going to be readily doable via a patch |
| 15:42.10 | biggeruniverse | someone was mentioning a problem with the level of integration with the list server |
| 15:42.13 | brlcad | that probably involves migrating about 100k lines of code, and it's not a direct migration |
| 15:42.29 | brlcad | yep |
| 15:42.36 | brlcad | more an issue with the auth system in general |
| 15:43.03 | biggeruniverse | could you not extend ServerPayer to be an actual *player* and monitor state via that player? |
| 15:43.11 | brlcad | it hooks into the list server for server listing and user auth .. and how that exactly happens now is functional but troublesome |
| 15:44.00 | biggeruniverse | the client need not change a great deal, as messages presumable from other clients would actually be generated by the server |
| 15:44.07 | biggeruniverse | *presumably |
| 15:44.18 | biggeruniverse | via the ServerPlayer |
| 15:44.39 | biggeruniverse | messages from the clients would serve to update ServerPlayer's state |
| 15:44.40 | brlcad | you know, before tackling these considerably bigger issues, maybe get a few patches under your belt? :) |
| 15:44.50 | biggeruniverse | :) |
| 15:44.59 | brlcad | like fix a couple of the bugs of items in todo first |
| 15:45.09 | biggeruniverse | they're coming |
| 15:45.21 | brlcad | since the bigger projects really necessitate commit access anyways |
| 15:45.41 | biggeruniverse | posh. everyone loves a 2mb patch! |
| 15:46.45 | biggeruniverse | :P |
| 15:47.05 | DTRemenak | much can be done in little chunks |
| 15:47.06 | brlcad | almost a sure way to get that patch rejected |
| 15:49.01 | brlcad | if it can't be readily reviewed for correctness, bugs, impact.. it's a risk, and one that I know I wouldn't take with someone that hasn't got commit access yet .. nor would anyone likely spend the weeks it'd take to properly review it |
| 15:49.15 | brlcad | now if DTRemenak made that patch... |
| 15:49.23 | DTRemenak | I'd just commit it :) |
| 15:49.24 | brlcad | he'd get slapped because he has commit access |
| 15:49.37 | brlcad | exactly :) |
| 15:49.57 | brlcad | word |
| 15:52.35 | brlcad | we have 20GB of mysql data |
| 15:52.52 | biggeruniverse | from what? |
| 15:53.13 | biggeruniverse | logging? |
| 15:56.20 | brlcad | mix of the live auth data, phpbb data, groups, loads of backups .. logging data is separate -- that's another 5 or so GB |
| 16:00.08 | ts | biggeruniverse: I think at 16KB devs are already saying "eww" ;) |
| 16:00.26 | biggeruniverse | ts: ? |
| 16:00.37 | ts | regarding patch size |
| 16:01.04 | brlcad | yeah, that's already pushing it |
| 16:01.32 | brlcad | I mean a few hundred lines at most -- the patches are actually reviewed, not just applied and tested |
| 16:02.10 | brlcad | unless the additional changes are all internal guts or somesuch to a given specific features |
| 16:02.13 | biggeruniverse | did I send a patch that big? |
| 16:02.17 | biggeruniverse | I didn't think so... |
| 16:02.35 | brlcad | i didn't say you did, just saying as a general rule of them |
| 16:02.38 | brlcad | s/them/thumb/ |
| 16:02.42 | biggeruniverse | ah |
| 16:03.04 | brlcad | only patch i've seen is the questionable random number generator |
| 16:03.08 | biggeruniverse | :P |
| 16:03.08 | brlcad | :) |
| 16:03.10 | ts | no, you wrote something about a 2MB patch, I wanted to give you an impression of where I begin to complain |
| 16:03.16 | biggeruniverse | not the gravity? |
| 16:03.21 | biggeruniverse | I'm more proud of that one |
| 16:03.35 | biggeruniverse | I know, I was joshing with brlcad |
| 16:03.49 | brlcad | don't think gravity has been looked at (by me at least) yet |
| 16:04.03 | biggeruniverse | It's fun |
| 16:04.09 | biggeruniverse | (and small) |
| 16:04.40 | biggeruniverse | anyway, I'm in the queue, I know |
| 16:04.51 | brlcad | hmm.. 10GB of logs, not 5 |
| 16:05.47 | biggeruniverse | ts: I haven't yet tested your fix |
| 16:05.50 | DTRemenak | logging!? |
| 16:06.15 | ts | biggeruniverse: It is no fix. It doesn't change the game logic. It's only a bandaid |
| 16:06.34 | biggeruniverse | that's what I call a fix |
| 16:06.53 | biggeruniverse | before it was broken (under extreme cases) |
| 16:07.17 | ts | It can be fixed once the server can "set" the people to new positions |
| 16:07.59 | biggeruniverse | a client gets the broadcast of it's on MsgPlayerUpdate, right? |
| 16:09.32 | ts | dunno |
| 16:11.00 | biggeruniverse | hmm |
| 16:11.42 | biggeruniverse | I assume the client need only check if the message has a different position/orientation than locally, and update to the value from the server |
| 16:11.47 | biggeruniverse | That would do it |
| 16:12.19 | ts | there needs to be a compensation of lag.. |
| 16:12.29 | ts | so not easy |
| 16:15.29 | biggeruniverse | still not bad |
| 16:19.42 | biggeruniverse | ts: are you checking for shot speed? |
| 16:19.54 | brlcad | woot! |
| 16:20.05 | brlcad | wait.. i only started two years ago... |
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| 16:38.37 | DTRemenak | brlcad: you were working on it for 1.12 ;) |
| 16:39.17 | DTRemenak | 2.0 was released in Jan 2005; it's almost Jan 2007 now. |
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| 16:39.29 | DTRemenak | so you've been working on it for more than two years |
| 16:41.44 | DTRemenak | getting there :) |
| 16:41.52 | ts | biggeruniverse: There are no checks for shotspeeds needed |
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| 16:44.58 | biggeruniverse | ts: why not |
| 16:45.02 | biggeruniverse | ? |
| 16:46.36 | brlcad | DTRemenak: hmmm, so it is ... yesh |
| 16:46.49 | brlcad | i should get busy |
| 16:46.53 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 16:49.12 | ts | biggeruniverse: There is no possibilty to cheat, so why should we check? |
| 16:49.26 | ts | The results would be pointless because it is never wrong |
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| 16:50.31 | Journeyman | how does one set the motd |
| 16:51.25 | brlcad | Journeyman: it's set by one of a few authorized users logging in to a quirky web interface and writing/updating the message |
| 16:51.55 | Journeyman | o.O |
| 16:52.01 | brlcad | DTRemenak: hm, what do you think.. roll the logs every day, week, month? .. and how many to keep |
| 16:52.33 | brlcad | that question applies to the bzfls log in particular.. |
| 16:52.58 | Journeyman | brlcad, bzfs has a web interface? |
| 16:53.03 | biggeruniverse | ts: there's always ways to cheat |
| 16:53.05 | JeffM2501 | Journeyman no |
| 16:53.08 | brlcad | Journeyman: nope |
| 16:53.10 | JeffM2501 | it's part of our sf page |
| 16:53.18 | JeffM2501 | it' a network wide thing, not a per server thing |
| 16:53.24 | JeffM2501 | you see it before you join a game |
| 16:53.30 | Journeyman | server's can't have their own motd? |
| 16:53.38 | brlcad | you can have a message |
| 16:53.40 | JeffM2501 | the server can have a join message |
| 16:53.44 | Journeyman | yeah i have the admsg |
| 16:53.45 | JeffM2501 | but that's not called the MOTD |
| 16:53.53 | JeffM2501 | the MOTD is before you join |
| 16:53.53 | Journeyman | alright |
| 16:53.59 | Journeyman | thank you |
| 16:54.08 | Journeyman | also, is there a slay/kill command for admins? |
| 16:54.16 | JeffM2501 | /kick |
| 16:54.23 | Journeyman | hrm |
| 16:54.37 | Journeyman | I think I may add one then |
| 16:54.56 | JeffM2501 | be simple for a plugin |
| 16:54.57 | brlcad | should be pretty easy to add that |
| 16:55.09 | Journeyman | yeah |
| 16:55.14 | brlcad | heh, everything's a plugin to you these days JeffM2501 :) |
| 16:55.25 | Journeyman | is there a way to make it change maps ever n mins |
| 16:55.44 | Journeyman | or would that be better off done with script restarting the server |
| 16:55.45 | brlcad | Journeyman: most servers that do that put the server execution in a scripted run loop |
| 16:56.23 | brlcad | so yeah, the latter |
| 16:57.27 | Journeyman | thanks for your help |
| 16:57.54 | ts | biggeruniverse: Not there :D |
| 16:58.00 | JeffM2501 | they can be easier then source mods, so I'm just sayin ;) |
| 16:58.12 | biggeruniverse | you could, but only for remote players ;) |
| 16:59.10 | brlcad | true true |
| 16:59.30 | biggeruniverse | ts: though you are right, there is only ShotBegin ShotEnd |
| 16:59.31 | brlcad | though that particular command would be good and easy to just add straight up |
| 16:59.36 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 16:59.48 | JeffM2501 | but easier to distribute to others in a plugin ;) |
| 17:00.00 | brlcad | not once a release is made :) |
| 17:00.12 | brlcad | but before, yeah |
| 17:00.15 | JeffM2501 | but who wants to wait till 2009? |
| 17:00.25 | biggeruniverse | not I |
| 17:00.45 | brlcad | hmmm we're due a release soon |
| 17:01.01 | ts | really? |
| 17:01.15 | brlcad | really |
| 17:01.49 | brlcad | january |
| 17:01.55 | brlcad | should aim for that |
| 17:01.57 | biggeruniverse | of 09 |
| 17:02.00 | biggeruniverse | ? |
| 17:02.11 | brlcad | next month |
| 17:02.12 | ts | Hrm, I don't see a top feature that would cause people to switch |
| 17:03.01 | brlcad | ts: maybe by then there will be |
| 17:03.27 | brlcad | either way, it's not forced upgrades |
| 17:03.27 | ts | If you have a join queue that filters out bad laggers before they spawn as tank that would be an argument for example ;) |
| 17:03.44 | brlcad | and jeff's display improvements are nice by themselves |
| 17:03.53 | ts | Who wants to code it? ;) |
| 17:05.46 | brlcad | that doesn't sound that compelling to me actualy |
| 17:06.09 | brlcad | addressing ME or improving the networking or new auth system would |
| 17:08.26 | JeffM2501 | I don't think I can have the API fixed by then, and we don't have a replacement for passdb |
| 17:09.37 | Journeyman | me and some guys at work thought up some nice features, would that intrest anyone? |
| 17:09.37 | brlcad | fixed? |
| 17:09.41 | brlcad | you broke it? :) |
| 17:09.45 | Journeyman | none of them seemed to complicated |
| 17:09.46 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah totaly |
| 17:09.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:10.06 | JeffM2501 | Journeyman depends what they are :), but probably |
| 17:10.07 | Journeyman | alright I will get the list tomarrow, I assume there is a feature request forum on the webpage |
| 17:10.14 | brlcad | Journeyman: more than likely the features have been mentioned before, but go ahead |
| 17:10.23 | brlcad | there is a RFE forum |
| 17:10.28 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I set it up to versioned, like it should have been in the first place |
| 17:10.35 | brlcad | more lacking in dev time than anything Journeyman |
| 17:10.46 | Journeyman | I have a buddy who does a bit of C/C++ he was going to make them for me anyways |
| 17:10.57 | Journeyman | I will be sure to share any code he does |
| 17:11.32 | Journeyman | this game has been a great time killer for slow days at work :) |
| 17:11.51 | brlcad | good times |
| 17:12.25 | brlcad | JeffM2501: versioned via more naming convention stuff? |
| 17:12.30 | brlcad | or some other approach |
| 17:12.40 | JeffM2501 | another approach |
| 17:12.45 | JeffM2501 | derived classes |
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| 17:12.58 | JeffM2501 | so that old plugins can go forward and just pull off the version of the class they know of |
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| 17:14.43 | brlcad | crazy talk |
| 17:14.46 | brlcad | he'll have it done |
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| 17:46.16 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:46.24 | Erroneous | why's that? |
| 17:47.00 | JeffM2501 | everyone else on this side has been gone for at least one day |
| 17:47.06 | JeffM2501 | I should get my turn right? |
| 17:47.10 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 17:47.33 | JeffM2501 | and I totaly forgot to bring all the stuff I was suposed to bring today |
| 17:47.36 | JeffM2501 | even my wallet |
| 17:47.44 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:47.49 | Erroneous | driving without a license? |
| 17:48.17 | JeffM2501 | I have a license, just not on my person |
| 17:48.20 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:48.27 | Erroneous | tell that to the nice officer ;) |
| 17:48.59 | JeffM2501 | I have before |
| 17:49.08 | JeffM2501 | they can be understanding if your reasonable |
| 17:49.22 | orchid | just crying, you wont get a ticket |
| 17:49.24 | JeffM2501 | and your info you say matches your registration |
| 17:49.37 | orchid | s/just/just start/ |
| 17:49.58 | Erroneous | yeah, if everything you do have is in order they can be more lenient |
| 17:50.01 | JeffM2501 | I usualy just have a reasonable conversation with them and I'm ok |
| 17:50.15 | Erroneous | heh, usually? this happen a lot? :) |
| 17:50.23 | JeffM2501 | in the past a lot more then now |
| 17:51.17 | JeffM2501 | remember, I've been driving a bit longer then you ;) |
| 17:51.25 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:51.48 | JeffM2501 | since 1888 |
| 17:51.52 | JeffM2501 | 1988 even |
| 17:51.54 | Erroneous | heh |
| 17:52.11 | JeffM2501 | who ganked my screwdriver |
| 17:52.21 | Erroneous | I was gonna say you may have been driving longer than I've been alive, but apparently not |
| 17:54.35 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:54.59 | JeffM2501 | left it on the cart with that mac |
| 17:55.12 | JeffM2501 | Jer has been driving longer then you've been alive |
| 17:57.13 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, can you hear that? |
| 17:57.24 | Erroneous | hear what? |
| 17:57.35 | JeffM2501 | guess not |
| 17:57.42 | Erroneous | yup, guess not |
| 17:59.11 | JeffM2501 | horible noise from the card fan on this PC |
| 18:19.15 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@s122-189.resnet.ucla.edu) |
| 18:20.53 | *** join/#bzflag zee007 (i=a4810129@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-db37c52619bcf6ca) |
| 18:25.31 | Erroneous | hmm, QuirkyCleanUp...that sounds like an interesting function... |
| 19:26.30 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:28.02 | L4m3r | I'm starting to wonder how wise it is to ban subnets of spammers |
| 19:28.12 | L4m3r | these are probably botnets, after all |
| 19:31.16 | A-Delusion | fix I just made for .bzw manpage http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/index.php |
| 19:31.33 | A-Delusion | gah, second time i did that |
| 19:31.44 | A-Delusion | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/272145 correct link |
| 19:40.26 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, that'll teach them to get infected :) |
| 19:41.44 | L4m3r | but, whole subnets? :P |
| 19:42.22 | JeffM2501 | that'll teach there ISP to give them decent tools :) |
| 19:42.34 | L4m3r | you figure, we're banning whole chunks of residential internet :P |
| 19:42.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah I know |
| 19:42.55 | JeffM2501 | proably be a good idea to prune them every so often |
| 19:42.57 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:43.02 | JeffM2501 | maybe after the upgrade |
| 19:43.11 | JeffM2501 | wipe the list and see where we go from there |
| 19:49.14 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:54.18 | A-Delusion | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/272154 that's the corrected manpage I wanted the first time |
| 19:54.39 | A-Delusion | I'm pretty sure that one is correct |
| 20:03.29 | biggeruniverse | CBG! |
| 20:03.49 | CBG | biggeruniverse! |
| 20:04.22 | Erroneous | yes, after the upgrade we should purge the ip ban lsit |
| 20:04.25 | Erroneous | list even |
| 20:05.28 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 20:06.43 | biggeruniverse | what's up with Filler00 - 03? |
| 20:07.09 | CBG | the 03 is up on the 00, for sure. |
| 20:16.04 | A-Delusion | addtexture clouds we could do better than that |
| 20:19.08 | randomparticle | can we have clouds that look like faces, or rabbits or whatever, just like real clouds do? |
| 20:20.14 | A-Delusion | oh sorry, i'm on the wrong channel again... been a few weeks since i did that, we're trying to make better looking fire. clouds.png is used in our smoke definition |
| 20:29.03 | *** join/#bzflag zee730 (i=d9da9795@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-222cf09cfac4c97f) |
| 20:47.03 | biggeruniverse | what? |
| 20:49.00 | randomparticle | 27 minutes after the last remark, you say what? :) |
| 20:58.51 | *** join/#bzflag longhair (n=longhair@pool-71-254-122-148.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:00.04 | CBG | huh? |
| 21:02.02 | biggeruniverse | yes |
| 21:02.03 | Kaniaz | Ugh :P |
| 21:02.14 | biggeruniverse | now only 15 minutes |
| 21:02.28 | biggeruniverse | yes, I think so |
| 21:02.37 | biggeruniverse | I fixed clouds, but I need to upload the patch |
| 21:03.12 | biggeruniverse | although, custom clouds is a good idea too |
| 21:03.20 | biggeruniverse | like custom ground texture |
| 21:05.49 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 21:15.10 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=ATD@mn-69-34-49-203.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:19.01 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 21:26.43 | blast007 | heh :) |
| 21:27.29 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 21:32.37 | donny_baker | japan... heck most of asia... especially korea here |
| 21:35.41 | CBG | tssk... |
| 21:35.54 | CBG | so, all asians are cheaters, or what? |
| 21:36.09 | CBG | eh, just noticed "networks" |
| 21:36.21 | CBG | s/cheaters/trouble-makers or whatever |
| 21:37.02 | blast007 | forum upgrade time |
| 21:37.14 | blast007 | board will be down during the process |
| 21:37.26 | CBG | no00oo0o0o0o0 |
| 21:37.41 | CBG | don't do it, blast007 ! |
| 21:37.45 | blast007 | CBG: heh |
| 21:37.50 | CBG | We can work this out, just put the upgrade button down !! |
| 22:06.07 | *** join/#bzflag plasma_kaz (n=Evan@ip70-171-170-13.om.om.cox.net) |
| 22:08.52 | JeffM2501 | ibot blast007++ |
| 22:10.00 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, you have chmod rights on bzbb? |
| 22:10.10 | blast007 | chown actually |
| 22:10.12 | blast007 | chmod I can do |
| 22:10.14 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
| 22:10.16 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 22:10.25 | [NP]Tangent | man, you take the forums down right as I'm going to post |
| 22:10.29 | blast007 | [NP]Tangent: hehe |
| 22:10.39 | blast007 | but it'll be nice a shiny! |
| 22:10.43 | blast007 | and* |
| 22:12.58 | JeffM2501 | he's talkin to his boss |
| 22:13.02 | JeffM2501 | so he'll need a sec |
| 22:13.25 | blast007 | I got brlcad in PM too |
| 22:19.24 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: yup |
| 22:19.39 | Erroneous | oh, or brlcad can |
| 22:19.47 | JeffM2501 | can you help you blast007 when he plugs in his lapy |
| 22:19.54 | JeffM2501 | he's upgrading the board and needs some stuff chowned |
| 22:20.03 | Erroneous | sure |
| 22:20.03 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 22:20.27 | blast007 | chowning is done |
| 22:20.33 | JeffM2501 | huzzah |
| 22:20.45 | blast007 | now I think we just need to tweak some stuff in the AdminCP |
| 22:25.18 | [NP]Tangent | hey, is there something special I need to do to load playHistoryTracker plugin in my .conf? |
| 22:25.31 | [NP]Tangent | because it works when I do /loadplugin playHistoryTracker |
| 22:25.34 | [NP]Tangent | but not from the .conf |
| 22:25.46 | [NP]Tangent | all I have is this |
| 22:25.47 | [NP]Tangent | -loadplugin "/home/nullbzfl/bzfs/confs/playHistoryTracker.so" |
| 22:25.51 | [NP]Tangent | in my conf |
| 22:26.04 | JeffM2501 | does it give you an error? |
| 22:26.09 | [NP]Tangent | no error |
| 22:26.12 | [NP]Tangent | it just doesn't do anything |
| 22:26.19 | JeffM2501 | how many d s do you run with? |
| 22:26.25 | [NP]Tangent | none |
| 22:26.32 | JeffM2501 | then it hides errors |
| 22:26.36 | JeffM2501 | run with -d -d -d |
| 22:26.52 | JeffM2501 | IIRC it won't like the " |
| 22:27.06 | JeffM2501 | but check the errors, I'm sure it shows one |
| 22:27.47 | [NP]Tangent | this works |
| 22:27.47 | [NP]Tangent | -loadplugin "/home/nullbzfl/bzfs/fairCTF.so,0.25:2:3" |
| 22:27.53 | [NP]Tangent | but the playHistoryTracker doesn't |
| 22:28.02 | JeffM2501 | ok then check for errors :) |
| 22:28.04 | [NP]Tangent | but it'll load from the in-game cli |
| 22:28.13 | [NP]Tangent | I was wondering if it needed any parameters? |
| 22:28.17 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 22:31.05 | [NP]Tangent | Plugin:/home/nullbzfl/bzfs/confs/playHistoryTracker.so not found, error libssl.so.0.9.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 22:31.43 | Flash | that's pretty self-explanatory |
| 22:31.45 | [NP]Tangent | so I guess that means it's time to talk to my host |
| 22:31.48 | [NP]Tangent | again |
| 22:31.58 | JeffM2501 | is the file located there? |
| 22:32.03 | JeffM2501 | in that full path? |
| 22:32.52 | [NP]Tangent | yes, file is there in that path |
| 22:32.55 | [NP]Tangent | it's the library, methinks |
| 22:33.45 | Flash | isn't the error that libssl.so.0.9.8 can't be found? |
| 22:34.35 | JeffM2501 | ssl should have nothing to do with that plugin |
| 22:34.42 | JeffM2501 | was the plugin built on this system? |
| 22:34.44 | JeffM2501 | or another |
| 22:34.51 | [NP]Tangent | plugin was built on another system |
| 22:34.54 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:35.06 | JeffM2501 | probably linked to a difrent set of libs |
| 22:35.11 | JeffM2501 | maybe curl somehow |
| 22:35.17 | JeffM2501 | ssl vs non ssl curl |
| 22:35.30 | [NP]Tangent | both systems are SuSE Linux 10.1, but I think he has different libs than I do |
| 22:35.38 | [NP]Tangent | though last time I checked, he had 0.9.8 of libssl |
| 22:35.55 | JeffM2501 | it's always better to build on the system you run on when dealing with linux |
| 22:36.02 | JeffM2501 | it's libs be "odd" |
| 22:36.17 | [NP]Tangent | well, I'll ask my host later |
| 22:36.21 | [NP]Tangent | off to work, then a party |
| 22:36.32 | [NP]Tangent | peace |
| 22:42.10 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 22:45.56 | donny_baker | I'm impressed guys, the forum upgrade was pretty fast and painless .... sofar :p |
| 22:47.17 | donny_baker | congrats |
| 22:47.41 | brlcad | forum upgrade? |
| 22:49.55 | *** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 22:49.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.52 | blast007 | visual confirmation is up :) |
| 22:53.36 | JeffM2501 | cooleo |
| 22:54.09 | blast007 | the new phpBB even locks people out if they try to break passwords :) |
| 22:55.41 | Flash | what do the various components of a version string represent? |
| 22:56.11 | Flash | Version 2.0.9.200611250DEVEL0darwin7.9.0-SDL for example |
| 22:56.33 | Flash | version 2.0.9 built on 20061125 I can guess |
| 22:56.42 | Flash | darwin means apple? |
| 22:56.49 | Flash | 7.9.0-SDL? |
| 22:57.53 | brlcad | 7.9.0 is the version of the darwin kernel |
| 22:58.05 | brlcad | SDL means sdl was compiled in/enabled |
| 22:58.37 | brlcad | darwin is the name of the apple kernel, generally indicates a mac os x system |
| 22:59.38 | tupone_laptop | hola brlcad |
| 22:59.52 | brlcad | ciao tupone_laptop |
| 23:00.04 | *** join/#bzflag Bluer (n=user@60.51.118.112) |
| 23:03.01 | A-Delusion | blast007, allow me to be the first to say "what's different" .....I cant see anything, right off |
| 23:04.17 | *** join/#bzflag Bluer2 (n=user@60.51.118.112) |
| 23:08.20 | brlcad | ~blast007++ |
| 23:08.41 | brlcad | excellent, 2.0.21 |
| 23:09.23 | Flash | what is darwin6.8 ? |
| 23:09.56 | Flash | I have darwan 7.9 (MacOS 10.3.9) |
| 23:10.15 | Flash | so 6.8 might be 10.1.8? |
| 23:10.21 | Flash | or 10.2.8 rather? |
| 23:10.36 | brlcad | you can find the tables somewhere |
| 23:10.54 | brlcad | lists which versions of the kernel go to which versions of the OS |
| 23:13.13 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C12302.access.telenet.be) |
| 23:13.14 | brlcad | 8.8.0 is 10.4.7 |
| 23:13.23 | brlcad | er, 8.8.1 |
| 23:14.08 | brlcad | blast007: that's really cool, thanks on many levels... |
| 23:16.51 | brlcad | will have to keep an eye on the attacks and see if they decrease now |
| 23:30.08 | Flash | are there official coding conventions? |
| 23:30.30 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:30.33 | JeffM2501 | in the devinfo file |
| 23:38.08 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@adsl-75-4-236-207.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:40.46 | blast007 | brlcad: ok |
| 23:40.57 | blast007 | hopefully less spam registrations now too |
| 23:41.01 | blast007 | but we'll see how that goes |
| 23:41.02 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:41.23 | blast007 | I can always add things to make it harder for bots |
| 23:42.58 | brlcad | it's already much better |
| 23:43.25 | brlcad | there hasn't been an audit detection of an intrusion attempt since you upgraded |
| 23:44.27 | blast007 | maybe the bots still thing the board is down for maintaince ;) |
| 23:44.36 | brlcad | security module was catching attempts on the rate of about one every 5 minutes |
| 23:44.56 | brlcad | there hasn't been a single incident in about two hours now |
| 23:45.48 | brlcad | ~blast007 |
| 23:45.51 | ibot | hmm... blast007 is very insane, or a cheese-stealer |
| 23:45.51 | brlcad | ~blast007++ |
| 23:45.51 | Kaniaz | Hooray |
| 23:48.22 | blast007 | mmm, chedar |
| 23:48.44 | blast007 | cheddar even |
| 23:48.49 | lan56 | lol |
| 23:50.10 | lan56 | I am liking the new mountains in CVS |
| 23:50.23 | lan56 | it looks much more realistic |
| 23:53.02 | tannerld | ~blast007++ |
| 23:53.33 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/Dev-C++/bzflag.dev: add ExportInformation.cxx |
| 23:53.37 | blast007 | brlcad: "security module" being the apache one? |
| 23:58.22 | brlcad | blast007: yes |
| 23:58.29 | blast007 | k |
| 23:58.33 | brlcad | i figured you left out the other one |
| 23:58.38 | brlcad | it wasn't logging anyways |
| 23:58.40 | blast007 | yeah :) |
| 23:58.51 | blast007 | I started from a clean slate |