irclog2html for #bzflag on 20060906

`00:04.13`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm found another thing that my make the speed checks not so efective`
`00:04.18`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: check your email :)`
`00:04.19`	`JeffM2501`	`!= on a set of floats`
`00:04.31`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: already read it`
`00:04.43`	`SportChick`	`okies thanks`
`00:04.44`	`brlcad`	`i'm really not convinced of the motivation for the change really`
`00:04.55`	`SportChick`	`discuss it elsewhere :)`
`00:05.13`	`SportChick`	`#bzflag < - wrong channel`
`00:05.14`	`brlcad`	`if the numbers "need" to be lower, then the size of the group "needs" to be smaller`
`00:05.40`	`brlcad`	`so fix the group instead of rigging the numbers`
`00:06.15`	`*** join/#bzflag teatree (n=pm_shidd@dslb-088-064-015-111.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`00:06.22`	`teatree`	`;D`
`00:06.37`	`SportChick`	`hey tea`
`00:06.51`	`CBG`	Hmm, is there any reason why I get "Making all in bzflag / make[2]: Nothing to be done for `all'." when I did make a tiny change to a file...?
`00:06.58`	`teatree`	`hello!`
`00:07.07`	`SportChick`	`yes, but most people of the people involved aren't reading this channel so closely brlcad`
`00:07.25`	`brlcad`	`CBG: dependency tracking is probably disabled for you for whatever reason`
`00:07.35`	`CBG`	`brlcad: oh, what can I do about that?`
`00:07.39`	`teatree`	`JeffM2501 still around ;)`
`00:07.43`	`brlcad`	`CBG: enable it :P`
`00:07.57`	`CBG`	`brlcad: any tips as to how, on os x 10.3.9 ?`
`00:08.08`	`brlcad`	`has nothing to do with your os`
`00:08.22`	`CBG`	`ok :/`
`00:08.23`	`brlcad`	`rarely ever does when it comes to the build`
`00:08.28`	`JBdiGriz`	`It does if he's using xcode`
`00:08.34`	`CBG`	`I am.`
`00:09.09`	`brlcad`	`not really even for xcode since it just defers`
`00:09.24`	`brlcad`	`the only xcode specific nasty is not running autogen.sh (which it probably should again)`
`00:09.40`	`brlcad`	`CBG: is it a checkout or a tarball?`
`00:09.49`	`CBG`	`I'm editing in xcode, running "make" in terminal.`
`00:09.56`	`CBG`	`checkout, today.`
`00:10.32`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`00:10.32`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`00:10.50`	`CBG`	`Wow, you got home quick, JeffM2501.`
`00:11.07`	`JBdiGriz`	`If you are running make in the terminal, then brlcad is correct. xcode has some weird behaviors with make and files which aren't part of the project.`
`00:11.24`	`CBG`	`oh, :(`
`00:11.41`	`JeffM2501`	`quick at?`
`00:11.48`	`teatree`	`JeffM2501`
`00:12.03`	`JeffM2501`	`teatree`
`00:12.14`	`teatree`	`JeffM2501 !!! i missed you!`
`00:12.23`	`JeffM2501`	`aim better next time`
`00:12.41`	`brlcad`	`JBdiGriz: statement about xcode in general or about bz's xcode project? bz's shouldn't have weird behavior since it just invokes make`
`00:12.48`	`teatree`	`what aim better`
`00:13.08`	`JBdiGriz`	`xcode in general. The project should be fine.`
`00:13.33`	`brlcad`	`CBG: you can try adding --enable-dependency-tracking to configure, but that "should" be the default for a cvs checkout`
`00:13.36`	`JeffM2501`	`so you don't miss`
`00:13.43`	`teatree`	`:(`
`00:13.45`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: when checking to see if we are to log or kick, don't use a fixed == test on the floating point positions, give them a little slack ( 0.001 ), this needs operationa testing.`
`00:13.48`	`brlcad`	`otherwise you edited a file that had nothing to do with producing the bzflag binary`
`00:13.50`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, I am not home`
`00:13.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I just restarted`
`00:14.02`	`CBG`	`should I do autogen again first, brlcad ?`
`00:14.07`	`CBG`	`JeffM2501: ah, I see. ;)`
`00:14.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't leave till 6, DTRemenak gets to go at 5`
`00:14.37`	`CBG`	`Ah, now it all makes sense.`
`00:15.06`	`teatree`	`JeffM2501 still the forum bitch?`
`00:15.13`	`CBG`	`rofl`
`00:15.30`	`JeffM2501`	`some would say the other way around.`
`00:15.38`	`teatree`	`;)`
`00:16.01`	`brlcad`	`CBG: you should only need to run autogen.sh iff 1) you don't have a configure file or 2) you modify either configure.ac or any Makefile.am.`
`00:16.08`	`JeffM2501`	`so if somone wants to get those changes, and run a server off of branch code, it could use some live testing`
`00:16.26`	`CBG`	`brlcad: I see, thanks`
`00:16.40`	`JeffM2501`	`it won't get subtle update jumps, but it'll get the big ones`
`00:16.45`	`JeffM2501`	`like jump across zone`
`00:17.04`	`brlcad`	`how's that play with an NR that comes back to life?`
`00:17.12`	`CBG`	`Why do I get the feeling no work ever gets done wherever you work, JeffM2501 ? :)`
`00:17.21`	`JeffM2501`	`today, not so much`
`00:17.27`	`JeffM2501`	`other days we do quite well`
`00:17.43`	`JeffM2501`	`we busted our butts last week to get ready for the show, everyone is at the show this week`
`00:17.53`	`CBG`	`what show?`
`00:17.58`	`JeffM2501`	`IMTS`
`00:18.25`	`brlcad`	`yay, international mathematical talent search :)`
`00:18.44`	`JeffM2501`	`International Manufacturing Technology Show`
`00:18.46`	`brlcad`	`also known as a trade show`
`00:18.53`	`CBG`	`i'm on the site`
`00:18.58`	`CBG`	`looks kinda boring :P`
`00:19.11`	`JeffM2501`	`depends if you like large machines that can kill you or not`
`00:19.19`	`brlcad`	`CBG: so do you, but we try not to judge ;)`
`00:19.27`	`CBG`	`heh :P`
`00:19.31`	`*** join/#bzflag plasma_kaz (n=Evan@ip72-198-200-207.om.om.cox.net)`
`00:19.50`	`CBG`	`I tend not to like big machines that can kill me, funnily enough.`
`00:20.05`	`JeffM2501`	`I tend to write software for them :)`
`00:20.35`	`CBG`	`You fit it in between your work on bzflag though, right?`
`00:20.47`	`JeffM2501`	`my work IS writing software for them`
`00:20.58`	`*** join/#bzflag shorty114 (i=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114)`
`00:20.59`	`brlcad`	`hah, JeffM2501 .. I was playing with that idea just a couple months ago`
`00:21.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it should not be too hard`
`00:21.16`	`CBG`	`Nah, that's a hobby, JeffM2501, youre real job is with bzflag.`
`00:21.18`	`JeffM2501`	`get one of those little USB servo controlers`
`00:21.21`	`brlcad`	`yeah, shouldn't`
`00:21.47`	`JeffM2501`	`so far I havn't solved how to know where they are along the axis after moding the servo for continous rotation`
`00:21.55`	`JeffM2501`	`since that blows out the positional element`
`00:21.59`	`brlcad`	`only trouble might be building something stable enough to hold the dremel, software to drive it slowly enough for the various bits/materials`
`00:22.31`	`JeffM2501`	`oh the movement stuff is easy`
`00:22.33`	`brlcad`	`i'd imagine the dremel might be really flaky for behaving consistently`
`00:22.38`	`JeffM2501`	`and software, I kinda got that :)`
`00:22.46`	`brlcad`	`heh, true`
`00:22.47`	`JeffM2501`	`well I was thinking of using the big flex head`
`00:22.55`	`JeffM2501`	`so the motor could be fixed mouned`
`00:23.04`	`JeffM2501`	`then the flex wire goes off to the moving head`
`00:23.07`	`JeffM2501`	`a lot smaller to move around`
`00:23.22`	`JeffM2501`	`so it'd be a lot more accurate`
`00:23.31`	`JeffM2501`	`but yeah your not gonna get more then 0.01 or so out of it`
`00:23.31`	`brlcad`	`moving it is easy, but moving it controlled enough to actually support some given path without snapping the bit or taking forever..`
`00:23.33`	`JeffM2501`	`if at all`
`00:23.41`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what the software is for :)`
`00:23.55`	`CBG`	`brlcad: --enable-dependency-tracking didn't seem to help :(`
`00:24.10`	`brlcad`	`i can't imagine you already have something that is familiar with the limits of a dremel, though?`
`00:24.31`	`JeffM2501`	`software wise, my idea was to just write a plugin that hooks into our rendering system and just uses it's moves`
`00:24.42`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't actualy have ANY cnc macihnes here`
`00:25.04`	`JeffM2501`	`I thought it would be a cool demo, have our software drive the machine, wile we do a rendering, each locksteped`
`00:25.20`	`JeffM2501`	`so as it's cutting you can rotate it around and see it in 3d on the screen`
`00:25.58`	`JeffM2501`	`the accuracy of the system will be limted on how accurate you can get the computer to know the position of the hobby servos`
`00:26.17`	`JeffM2501`	`then I wanted to cut out little bzflag tanks :)`
`00:26.22`	`brlcad`	`without assuming soft particleboard or something and only supporting one or two bits, that's still going to be a lot of "testing" to figure out a limits matrix of some sort for the various bits`
`00:26.48`	`JeffM2501`	`naw, got a database of them`
`00:26.58`	`JeffM2501`	`just need to know the accepted chipload`
`00:27.05`	`JeffM2501`	`then we can compute a speed and a feed`
`00:27.16`	`JeffM2501`	`or adjust the cut depth`
`00:27.28`	`brlcad`	`you got a db of the materials and industry bits`
`00:27.31`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:27.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's what we DO`
`00:27.45`	`brlcad`	`but i don't imagine you have dremel part #xyz in there ..`
`00:27.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it's based on the tool size, flutes and material`
`00:28.09`	`JeffM2501`	`so a comprable fit can be found easy`
`00:28.18`	`brlcad`	`hm`
`00:28.19`	`JeffM2501`	`most dremels are carbide 4 flute`
`00:28.32`	`JeffM2501`	`db goes down to they super small sizes`
`00:28.39`	`JeffM2501`	`RPMs are RPMs`
`00:28.51`	`JeffM2501`	`hell a roland machine IS basicly a dremel`
`00:28.57`	`JeffM2501`	`on a ploter`
`00:29.23`	`JeffM2501`	`the big question would be how consistent you can get the speed`
`00:29.28`	`JeffM2501`	`and how fast the tool wear is`
`00:30.00`	`JeffM2501`	`now I wouldn't go cutting 440 steel with it`
`00:30.06`	`brlcad`	`and how solid your rig is, how controlled are your steppers/servos, how firmly is the dremel and bit attached`
`00:30.13`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:30.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd want as little flex as possilbe`
`00:30.36`	`JeffM2501`	`tho with a couple sensors you could detect the flex and comp`
`00:30.54`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd want to take small cuts to minimise it`
`00:31.11`	`JeffM2501`	`but it could cut molds, or stuff like beltbuckles and toys`
`00:31.15`	`brlcad`	`so you going to do it?`
`00:31.22`	`JeffM2501`	`I have to solve the servo problem`
`00:31.32`	`JeffM2501`	`I've ideas for the movement system`
`00:31.44`	`JeffM2501`	`but I won't buy any parts till I know it'll work`
`00:31.49`	`brlcad`	`i'd think you'd want fine-grained stepper motors`
`00:32.03`	`JeffM2501`	`with a steper you have to put encoders on them`
`00:32.15`	`JeffM2501`	`servos have encoders in them`
`00:32.19`	`brlcad`	`with servos, they.. break ;)`
`00:32.27`	`JeffM2501`	`so do stepers :)`
`00:32.34`	`brlcad`	`not nearly as badly/often`
`00:32.39`	`JeffM2501`	`true`
`00:32.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean if I wanted a real cnc, I'd just spend 3 grand and get a minimill with CNC upgrade`
`00:33.02`	`JeffM2501`	`the point is to do it cheaply with hobby servvos`
`00:33.28`	`brlcad`	`steppers don't really cost more than servos, you just have to write the controller code to drive them`
`00:33.51`	`JeffM2501`	`continous rotation hoby servos are like 6$`
`00:34.07`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www3.telus.net/public/aschoepp/cnctaig.html`
`00:34.42`	`brlcad`	`steppers i was looking at ranged like 10 bucks upwards, though you'd need what.. 4 or 5?`
`00:34.55`	`JeffM2501`	`for a mill or lathe?`
`00:35.00`	`JeffM2501`	`3 for a basicl mill`
`00:35.07`	`JeffM2501`	`more if you want rotary axes`
`00:35.17`	`JeffM2501`	`tho more then 5 is kinda silly`
`00:35.50`	`JeffM2501`	`since you can't machine on 6 sides of a part`
`00:36.22`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.sherline.com/CNCprices.htm`
`00:36.29`	`JeffM2501`	`even comes with the computer :)`
`00:37.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the stepers I know little about`
`00:37.37`	`JeffM2501`	`so that's why I was looking at servos`
`00:37.41`	`JeffM2501`	`I am more familar with them`
`00:38.13`	`brlcad`	`a mill`
`00:38.31`	`JeffM2501`	`basic mill has 3 axes, X Y and Z`
`00:38.40`	`JeffM2501`	`most put X an Y on the table, and Z on the head`
`00:38.54`	`brlcad`	`i just can't imagine getting enough torque/power out of a server for sustained use on anything but balsa wood or something :)`
`00:39.13`	`JeffM2501`	`I've seen hoby servos lift a bowling ball`
`00:39.41`	`brlcad`	`repeatedly for several hours continuous? :)`
`00:39.53`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:39.55`	`JeffM2501`	`at a show`
`00:40.00`	`JeffM2501`	`up and down up and down`
`00:40.00`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`00:40.08`	`brlcad`	`somehow I doubt that was a $6 servo`
`00:40.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it was a midrange futaba`
`00:40.37`	`JeffM2501`	`it wasn't one of the mini's that are in the litle electrics`
`00:41.03`	`brlcad`	`and that still could have just been 5-10 pounds of pressure`
`00:41.08`	`JeffM2501`	`but stepers may be the way to go, since making a servo go continous jacks the encoder`
`00:41.33`	`brlcad`	`i'd imagine you'd need more than that on a hardwood`
`00:41.56`	`JeffM2501`	`depends how deep a cut you take`
`00:41.56`	`*** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=cfe91b02@216-55-160-43.dedicated.abac.net)`
`00:42.06`	`JeffM2501`	`if the machine is fast enough can take more then one pass :)`
`00:42.12`	`JeffM2501`	`since you have repeatable accuracy`
`00:42.18`	`Gnurdux`	`hi a_meteorite`
`00:42.24`	`a_meteorite`	`hey.`
`00:42.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I was gonna pick up a book on basic stamps`
`00:42.40`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`00:42.54`	`JeffM2501`	`was thinking of having a set of stamps drive the motors and encoders and just allways tell me where they are`
`00:43.03`	`JeffM2501`	`and have that go to a USB type controller`
`00:43.14`	`JeffM2501`	`that would take the "Move to here" stuff`
`00:43.15`	`brlcad`	`sparks flying`
`00:43.17`	`brlcad`	`parts flying`
`00:43.20`	`brlcad`	`hehe`
`00:43.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I've seen it done :)`
`00:43.29`	`a_meteorite`	`it seems the more school I do the faster it goes </random type="note">`
`00:43.33`	`JeffM2501`	`built out of an inkjet :)`
`00:44.06`	`JeffM2501`	`cut foam, make a mold, then fiberglass up what you want :)`
`00:44.27`	`brlcad`	`heh, there is that`
`00:44.31`	`a_meteorite`	`a BYOP? (build your own printer) ;)`
`00:44.33`	`JeffM2501`	`what do you want to cut?`
`00:45.48`	`brlcad`	`though aluminum would be fun for some things`
`00:46.27`	`JeffM2501`	`get a dremel, get some hardwood, see how it cuts it :)`
`00:46.31`	`brlcad`	`friend of mine forges his own aluminum ignots from bunches of soda cans that he melts down..`
`00:46.38`	`JeffM2501`	`hah`
`00:46.49`	`JeffM2501`	`al, is a decently soft metal`
`00:47.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I've seen it cut on table top stuff at slow feeds`
`00:47.03`	`brlcad`	`oh, I know how a dremel cuts hardwoods, I used to do some engraving stuff for fun.. really easy to snap the bits on those suckers`
`00:47.29`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-147-210.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`00:47.35`	`brlcad`	`especially going across grains where the pressure changes dramatically.. fear the knots! :)`
`00:47.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it all comes down to how accurate you can get the axes`
`00:47.52`	`JeffM2501`	`in speed and position`
`00:49.06`	`silverfox`	`~bzfquery 72.198.200.207:5154`
`00:50.22`	`silverfox`	`~bzfquery 72.198.200.207:5158`
`00:50.40`	`a_meteorite`	`silverfox: ibot is probably timing out :)`
`00:50.56`	`a_meteorite`	`I remember when bzfx went down it took forever for ibot to timeout`
`00:52.43`	`a_meteorite`	`heh`
`00:52.58`	`Silver[a]`	`it got there eventually.`
`00:54.29`	`Silver[a]`	`good ibot.`
`00:55.19`	`shorty114`	`@botsnack`
`00:55.23`	`shorty114`	`err`
`00:55.27`	`shorty114`	`~botsnack`
`00:55.27`	`ibot`	`shorty114: thanks`
`00:56.07`	`Silver[a]`	`~botsnack old and stale`
`00:56.07`	`ibot`	`:), Silver[a]`
`01:03.09`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite, anything happenin with teh ssh plugin?`
`01:03.46`	`a_meteorite`	`Gnurdux: no`
`01:03.53`	`a_meteorite`	`too much school`
`01:05.36`	`Gnurdux`	`you got THAT much work?`
`01:06.21`	`a_meteorite`	`yes`
`01:06.42`	`a_meteorite`	`I'm going home to schoolwork after this night school`
`01:06.45`	`a_meteorite`	`*homework`
`01:07.01`	`Gnurdux`	`wait why are ou in night school again?`
`01:07.22`	`a_meteorite`	`algebra`
`01:07.29`	`Gnurdux`	`ahh`
`01:07.59`	`a_meteorite`	`:(`
`01:07.59`	`Gnurdux`	`*algebra`
`01:08.12`	`Gnurdux`	`we proved the 0 property`
`01:08.29`	`Gnurdux`	`meaning that x*0 = 0`
`01:08.34`	`a_meteorite`	`:\|`
`01:08.48`	`a_meteorite`	`my class cares less about proofs and more about doing`
`01:09.00`	`a_meteorite`	`and the HS geo class barely needs any algebra skills`
`01:09.01`	`Gnurdux`	`well algebra 1 doesnt have proofa`
`01:09.09`	`Gnurdux`	`geo is mostly about proofs`
`01:09.33`	`a_meteorite`	`:{`
`01:09.35`	`a_meteorite`	`* :P`
`01:10.01`	`Gnurdux`	`like proving the Law of Sines`
`01:10.14`	`a_meteorite`	`we've got proofs, but we don't got to do paragraph proofs :D`
`01:10.25`	`Gnurdux`	`what about those step-proofs`
`01:10.26`	`a_meteorite`	`and he's easy on the homework`
`01:10.35`	`a_meteorite`	`I don't know, he just calls them informal proofs`
`01:10.44`	`Gnurdux`	`so you just write stuff`
`01:10.50`	`a_meteorite`	`yeah`
`01:10.52`	`Gnurdux`	`thats probably good`
`01:11.07`	`Gnurdux`	`my geo class made us do flowchart proofs`
`01:11.09`	`Gnurdux`	`which really sucked`
`01:11.18`	`a_meteorite`	`only 20-25 problems for homework. and not every night too. :)`
`01:11.22`	`Gnurdux`	`lol`
`01:11.23`	`a_meteorite`	`ack`
`01:11.34`	`Gnurdux`	`my school has block scheduling`
`01:11.39`	`Gnurdux`	`so i only got math every other day`
`01:11.52`	`Gnurdux`	`no jeff right now`
`01:12.01`	`Gnurdux`	`~lart Gnurdux and a_meteorite`
`01:12.05`	`a_meteorite`	`^_^`
`01:12.51`	`Gnurdux`	`awwww`
`01:12.57`	`Gnurdux`	`* SCO :Erroneous Nickname`
`01:13.01`	`Gnurdux`	`i wanted to do /nick SCO`
`01:13.02`	`Gnurdux`	`and then:`
`01:13.06`	`Gnurdux`	`/me sues a_meteorite`
`01:13.11`	`a_meteorite`	`:P`
`01:13.34`	`a_meteorite`	`I wanted to do /nick [SERVER->], but IRC apparently doesn't take < or >s in your name`
`01:13.45`	`a_meteorite`	`it cuts it off`
`01:14.00`	`Gnurdux`	`SCO's focus has changed dramatically: they used to mainly sell Unix products, now they sell lawsuits :D`
`01:14.32`	`Gnurdux`	`apparently the court forced them to disclose some of the supposedly violated files`
`01:14.46`	`Gnurdux`	`several of which were personally written by Linus Torvalds :P`
`01:15.08`	`a_meteorite`	`I never got the whole SCO thing`
`01:15.24`	`Gnurdux`	`its a bit complicated`
`01:15.26`	`a_meteorite`	`I think it was before I really got into computers and learned of Linux`
`01:15.34`	`Gnurdux`	`it hasnt gone to trial yet`
`01:15.38`	`a_meteorite`	`lol`
`01:15.41`	`Gnurdux`	`not till february`
`01:15.47`	`Gnurdux`	`2007`
`01:15.50`	`Gnurdux`	`but the basic story:`
`01:15.53`	`a_meteorite`	`hasn't SCO stuff been ongoing for a long time?`
`01:15.55`	`Gnurdux`	`yes`
`01:16.05`	`Gnurdux`	`2003 is when they filed their first lawsuit`
`01:16.07`	`Gnurdux`	`anyways`
`01:16.17`	`Gnurdux`	`IBM sells a version of Unix`
`01:16.24`	`Gnurdux`	`it has contributed code to Linux`
`01:16.36`	`Gnurdux`	`SCO isn't doing so well economically`
`01:16.43`	`Gnurdux`	`SCO claims to own Unix`
`01:16.50`	`Gnurdux`	`like the licensing rights`
`01:17.02`	`Gnurdux`	`they say that IBM has contributed Unix code to Linux`
`01:17.09`	`Gnurdux`	`violating the license`
`01:17.32`	`Gnurdux`	`they sue IBM and threaten legal action against all Linux users`
`01:17.36`	`Gnurdux`	`thats the basic story`
`01:17.48`	`Gnurdux`	`but IBM also countersued`
`01:17.58`	`Gnurdux`	`and either they sued Novell, or Novell sued them`
`01:18.09`	`Gnurdux`	`cause they both claim to own Unix`
`01:18.16`	`a_meteorite`	`I wonder how all this computer talk makes sense to judges and lawyers..?`
`01:18.24`	`Gnurdux`	`and they also sued DaimlerChrysler`
`01:18.25`	`a_meteorite`	`do they break it down simply?`
`01:18.32`	`a_meteorite`	`hehe`
`01:18.42`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler (n=David@pool-71-242-92-134.phlapa.east.verizon.net)`
`01:18.42`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite: they write for judges and lawyers, not computer types`
`01:19.04`	`fiveofoh`	`This sounds a lot like the mess that caused BSD`
`01:19.09`	`a_meteorite`	`as in "our intellectual property is embedded in their products"`
`01:19.39`	`Gnurdux`	`they sued DaimlerChrysler because #1 they used to use Unix, #2 they now use linux, and #3 they didnt reply to a letter sco sent about linux usage`
`01:19.45`	`Gnurdux`	`or something`
`01:19.51`	`Gnurdux`	`and red hat sued sco for defamation`
`01:20.03`	`Gnurdux`	`etc`
`01:20.06`	`a_meteorite`	`so everyone is after sco and sco is after everyone?`
`01:20.13`	`spldart`	`Good_Freaking_Grief!`
`01:20.14`	`a_meteorite`	`basically.`
`01:20.16`	`Gnurdux`	`but the main case is SCO vs IBM`
`01:20.32`	`Gnurdux`	`fiveofoh, but they aren't aiming for a BSD type settlement`
`01:20.42`	`amcnabb`	`A few years ago we picketed outside SCO's offices. It was a lot of fun.`
`01:20.44`	`Gnurdux`	`they claim the GPL violates the US Constitution`
`01:20.51`	`amcnabb`	`It was basically a big LUG get-together.`
`01:21.00`	`Gnurdux`	`so GPL code isnt protected`
`01:21.05`	`Gnurdux`	`thus, they own all of linux`
`01:21.16`	`Gnurdux`	`any corporate linux user has to pay em 600 $$ per processor`
`01:21.24`	`Gnurdux`	`according to them`
`01:21.29`	`Gnurdux`	`and fun stuff like that`
`01:21.46`	`a_meteorite`	`ouch`
`01:22.07`	`Gnurdux`	`basically, sco are totally nuts`
`01:22.11`	`*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@c-66-229-1-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`01:22.14`	`Gnurdux`	`and they went into a little suing frenzy`
`01:22.22`	`a_meteorite`	`so they contributed code then say the gpl is invalid and now claim they own all of linux?`
`01:22.22`	`Gnurdux`	`and theyre kinda stuck`
`01:22.34`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite, no, they claim that IBM contributed code`
`01:22.43`	`Gnurdux`	`but at first, they didnt say which code`
`01:22.44`	`a_meteorite`	`so why does SCO care?`
`01:23.03`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite: they claim IBM contributed code that it licensed from Unix, which they claim they own`
`01:23.10`	`a_meteorite`	`ahhh`
`01:23.17`	`Gnurdux`	`thats why they sued IBM`
`01:23.24`	`Gnurdux`	`but at first, they didnt reveal which code`
`01:23.31`	`Gnurdux`	`and made themselves sound like morons`
`01:23.45`	`Gnurdux`	`they said that if they revealed it, it would be "laundered" before it got to trial`
`01:23.45`	`a_meteorite`	`"we know you took code, but we don't know what"`
`01:23.50`	`Gnurdux`	`but you cant "launder" code`
`01:24.13`	`Gnurdux`	`it was compared to a storeowner saying "You're arrested for shoplifting, but we can't say what"`
`01:24.39`	`a_meteorite`	`heh`
`01:24.43`	`Gnurdux`	`anyways, the court eventually forced them to disclose some of it`
`01:24.59`	`a_meteorite`	`all your code are belong to us ;)`
`01:25.05`	`Gnurdux`	`and several of the files they claimed had proprietary code were written by linux torvalds personally`
`01:25.15`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite: thats basically what theyre sayinh`
`01:25.25`	`Gnurdux`	`and that includes ALL the code that volunteers submitted`
`01:25.30`	`shorty114`	`SCO can burn in hell`
`01:25.32`	`Gnurdux`	`POOF SCO OWNS j00!!!!`
`01:25.43`	`Gnurdux`	`SCO OWNS THE COPYRIGHT TO ALL OF YOU`
`01:25.56`	`Gnurdux`	`YOU MUST PAY ROYALTIES ON YOURSELF, or WE WILL SUE YOU!!!`
`01:26.13`	`a_meteorite`	`lol`
`01:26.50`	`Gnurdux`	`http://www.linux.org/news/sco/index.html`
`01:28.08`	`Gnurdux`	`McBride claimed he's had the stolen code and there was the expected "show us" request to which the SCO CEO responded: "The Linux community would have me publish it now, (so they can have it) laundered by the time we can get to a court hearing. That's not the way we're going to go.". For those who may not know how kernel development takes place, each version is placed on mirrors throughout the globe and all older versions are kept`
`01:28.08`	`Gnurdux`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:28.44`	`*** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-63-204-104-219.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`01:28.44`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ`
`01:29.22`	`djlawler`	`Sorry to ask a question so completely not about SCO vs. Linux...I'm losing my memory - anyone here remember back to the days of the TurkeyMoongroup server?`
`01:29.54`	`Gnurdux`	`a_meteorite: read http://www.linux.org/news/sco/timeline.html`
`01:29.56`	`Gnurdux`	`its fun`
`01:30.01`	`Gnurdux`	`it starts at the bottom, goes to the top`
`01:32.16`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler (n=David@pool-71-242-92-134.phlapa.east.verizon.net)`
`01:35.19`	`Gnurdux`	`When asked why SCO is holding back on revealing the allegedly stolen source code, McBride remarks that if SCO did release it, the Linux developers would have it "laundered by the time we can get to a court hearing".The interview shows that the CEO of what is still technically a Linux company is ignorant about how kernel development takes place. It also reinforces the general belief that the "stolen" source code may be non-existent.`
`01:35.33`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`01:35.33`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`01:38.27`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler (n=David@pool-71-242-92-134.phlapa.east.verizon.net)`
`01:39.16`	`djlawler`	`any old timers here? can't remember the nick of the person who did the map at the old turkeymoongroup server...anyone remember?`
`01:40.02`	`djlawler`	`tap. tap. is this thing on?`
`01:40.12`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`01:40.14`	`a_meteorite`	`no`
`01:40.17`	`djlawler`	`:(`
`01:40.48`	`blast007`	`djlawler: I recall the server name, but not the map/owner name :(`
`01:41.20`	`JeffM2501`	`didn't it run hix?`
`01:41.43`	`djlawler`	`it was a big map - with lots of levels and hidden passages`
`01:41.51`	`djlawler`	`no - not hix`
`01:42.03`	`djlawler`	`not when i started playing at least`
`01:42.11`	`JeffM2501`	`that was realy before maps were published`
`01:42.18`	`JeffM2501`	`you could search the fourms, but I dono`
`01:42.45`	`djlawler`	`i'll have to look at the forums - yes`
`01:43.47`	`djlawler`	`well thanks for nothing :)`
`01:45.44`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007, you around for some testing?`
`01:46.24`	`djlawler`	`arg - i remember - although a pretty good person - he was a bit immature and eventually had a falling out with most of the bzflag community and his name/nick was removed from the forums - but he made quite a few maps in the early days`
`01:46.43`	`JeffM2501`	`spiff or doug?`
`01:46.54`	`djlawler`	`yep`
`01:46.55`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: nope, I'm still at work`
`01:46.58`	`djlawler`	`thanks!`
`01:47.00`	`JeffM2501`	`dang`
`01:47.02`	`djlawler`	`spaceman spiff`
`01:47.03`	`blast007`	`and bzflag doesn't run so good over RDP ;)`
`01:47.38`	`JeffM2501`	`that I can imagine`
`01:47.40`	`blast007`	`I have Visual Studio on this system at work, but only VB and C#`
`01:47.48`	`JeffM2501`	`don't need ya to build`
`01:47.52`	`blast007`	`oh`
`01:48.00`	`JeffM2501`	`was hopin you could use that client you helped me test with last time`
`01:48.01`	`blast007`	`then I can test`
`01:48.12`	`blast007`	`sure`
`01:48.29`	`JeffM2501`	`let me make sure I'm running`
`01:48.36`	`JeffM2501`	`C# is actualy not bad at all`
`01:48.39`	`djlawler`	`heh....spaceman spiff = deleted user`
`01:48.47`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah he wanted to leave`
`01:49.10`	`a_meteorite`	`spaceman spiff.. that rings a bell, though I wasn't around then I don't think`
`01:49.49`	`djlawler`	`too bad - first player i ever observed....i was in awe that he never stopped moving around...`
`01:49.51`	`JeffM2501`	`what is the ibot line to check a server?`
`01:50.05`	`djlawler`	`but I think he burned out on the game`
`01:50.09`	`blast007`	`bzfquery host:port`
`01:50.26`	`JeffM2501`	`ibot bzfquery one.opencombat.net`
`01:50.53`	`*** join/#bzflag [NP]Tangent (n=hyperdev@71-211-222-211.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`01:53.29`	`JeffM2501`	`ibot bzfquery one.opencombat.net`
`01:53.48`	`JeffM2501`	`bastards`
`01:54.57`	`JeffM2501`	`can anyone conect tot hat?`
`01:55.44`	`djlawler`	`oh cool - i found the map - SilentDeath that was probably the last map hosted on the Turkey server.....great map for ST. Jeff: thanks for the memory assist.`
`01:55.52`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`01:56.43`	`djlawler`	`i'm on it`
`01:56.52`	`JeffM2501`	`thanks`
`01:57.20`	`djlawler`	`no jumping :)`
`02:01.21`	`orange`	`JeffM2501: error connecting to server`
`02:01.29`	`JeffM2501`	`it's off now`
`02:01.34`	`orange`	`ah`
`02:01.47`	`JeffM2501`	`the test failed, I must bang on it some more`
`02:02.47`	`a_meteorite`	`;)`
`02:03.03`	`blast007`	`huh? :)`
`02:03.56`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`02:04.20`	`JeffM2501`	`by "off" I mean I shut it down`
`02:11.46`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler (n=David@pool-71-242-92-134.phlapa.east.verizon.net)`
`02:24.14`	`JeffM2501`	`ok can anyone come join it again?`
`02:28.38`	`JeffM2501`	`guess not`
`02:28.54`	`orange`	`I can try`
`02:28.59`	`orange`	`hang on`
`02:29.37`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: better positional speed check`
`02:29.48`	`Thumper_`	`try what?`
`02:33.49`	`*** part/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-151-201-119-31.pitt.east.verizon.net)`
`02:34.37`	`*** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-151-201-119-31.pitt.east.verizon.net)`
`02:59.58`	`*** join/#bzflag supertanker (i=supertan@69-85-151-133.socal.dialup.o1.com)`
`03:00.16`	`supertanker`	`hello`
`03:00.41`	`supertanker`	`How much faster will bzflag compile on a dual core machine than on a single core?`
`03:01.06`	`supertanker`	`I don't have the source right now and I don't want to try downloading it again`
`03:01.07`	`JeffM2501`	`what compiuler?`
`03:01.16`	`supertanker`	`Linux GCC`
`03:01.19`	`supertanker`	`or G++`
`03:01.21`	`supertanker`	`whatever it is`
`03:01.32`	`supertanker`	`last time it took 3 hours and at the end didn't even work`
`03:01.36`	`JeffM2501`	`if you have it do more then one file at a time yes`
`03:01.48`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a command line option to have it do more then one`
`03:01.52`	`supertanker`	`I mean if I just type the normal ./configure then make`
`03:01.56`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:02.04`	`JeffM2501`	`by default it does one file at a time`
`03:02.51`	`supertanker`	`I mean if I just type in make and leave it to do its thing`
`03:03.01`	`JeffM2501`	`NO`
`03:03.21`	`*** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`03:03.30`	`JeffM2501`	`multiple cores only helps when you tell it to do more then one file at a time`
`03:03.34`	`JeffM2501`	`and by default it does ONE`
`03:03.35`	`supertanker`	`oh`
`03:03.36`	`supertanker`	`okay`
`03:03.40`	`JeffM2501`	`so no, the other cores are idle`
`03:03.57`	`supertanker`	`so if I don't specify it to use both, it uses one? I thought that most programs were made to use both`
`03:04.06`	`JeffM2501`	`oh god no`
`03:04.12`	`JeffM2501`	`most apps are made for one`
`03:04.19`	`JeffM2501`	`cus most systems only have one CPU`
`03:04.25`	`supertanker`	`oh`
`03:05.00`	`supertanker`	`so THATS why it's taking so long to download. One site I went to has a .swf ad with a streaming 3 minute audio file`
`03:05.03`	`JeffM2501`	`multi cpu systems were very specialsed`
`03:05.12`	`supertanker`	`ah.`
`03:05.41`	`supertanker`	`so...erm...how do I make it do multiple files?`
`03:06.07`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a command line option`
`03:06.37`	`supertanker`	`let me guess`
`03:06.40`	`supertanker`	`"man make"`
`03:06.44`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:06.47`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not part of make`
`03:06.59`	`supertanker`	`it's part of GCC or the CFLAGs?`
`03:07.01`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a gcc cflag IIRC`
`03:07.06`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:07.11`	`supertanker`	`Okay`
`03:07.13`	`JeffM2501`	`have it do 3 at a time`
`03:07.23`	`supertanker`	`I'll go look that up. Maybe now with a better graphics card i'll play more`
`03:10.16`	`supertanker`	`Ugh. Script kiddies piss me off.`
`03:11.16`	`supertanker`	`Next time someone spams my guestbook their going in my sitewide ban list`
`03:12.16`	`supertanker`	`has anything exciting been going on in the BZWorld? I'm too lazy to go check the forums`
`03:12.35`	`L4m3r`	`just a couple of noob spammers on the BZBB`
`03:13.08`	`supertanker`	`so in other words, situation normal?`
`03:13.15`	`L4m3r`	`yeah :)`
`03:13.41`	`supertanker`	`someone with a lot of programming experience should make an addon to PHPbb`
`03:13.54`	`supertanker`	`that analysises posts and automatically bans spammers`
`03:14.00`	`supertanker`	`or postcount mad users`
`03:14.08`	`JeffM2501`	`or just a capatcha would do it`
`03:14.11`	`supertanker`	`a what?`
`03:14.24`	`supertanker`	`nevermind, I'll look it uo`
`03:14.26`	`supertanker`	`up*`
`03:15.51`	`supertanker`	`hm. I need one for my inbox. I just got an email asking if I wanted to "do my swiss"`
`03:16.06`	`JeffM2501`	`dude, spamfilter`
`03:16.08`	`JeffM2501`	`they are common`
`03:16.21`	`supertanker`	`I know. I must have it configed wrong`
`03:16.39`	`supertanker`	`but I have to wait for 532 spam messages to load before I can delete them`
`03:17.46`	`supertanker`	`dang. there have been two releases since I last checked. I am really behind`
`03:17.48`	`JeffM2501`	`gives you more time to whine`
`03:17.54`	`supertanker`	`lol`
`03:18.12`	`supertanker`	`or to work on the level i'm designing for Paintball`
`03:21.23`	`supertanker`	`Um...I think something is wrong with my video card. It it normal for the tanks to look like they are only half-drawn?`
`03:22.30`	`supertanker`	`as in, it looks like an old TV with half of the lines not being scanned`
`03:23.32`	`supertanker`	`That is so odd....what could be causing that?`
`03:28.10`	`*** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@gentoo/developer/codergeek42)`
`03:28.35`	`supertanker`	`I think so`
`03:28.44`	`supertanker`	`I just got the thing. Paid 300 bucks for it, too`
`03:29.03`	`JeffM2501`	`what card?`
`03:29.03`	`supertanker`	`oh yeah, I need to go find where the linux driver for the 7900 series is.`
`03:29.08`	`supertanker`	`brb`
`03:29.29`	`JeffM2501`	`same as the otehrs`
`03:29.36`	`supertanker`	`Nvidia 7900 GT Overclocked`
`03:29.40`	`supertanker`	`PCI-E`
`03:30.00`	`JeffM2501`	`gt?`
`03:30.17`	`supertanker`	`I have no idea`
`03:30.29`	`supertanker`	`I think that it means it's the PCI-E model. The AGP model says something else like GS`
`03:30.37`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:31.01`	`supertanker`	`Like I said; I have no real idea`
`03:31.19`	`supertanker`	`I think that it's there to make it sound cool and make me type 2 extra letters`
`03:31.41`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:32.27`	`JeffM2501`	`why spend your moeny on someti9ng you don't understand`
`03:33.07`	`Gnurdux`	`supertanker: i think nvidia has one driver for all of em`
`03:33.19`	`supertanker`	`because my friend is a total expert on computer gaming. and, beleive it or not, it was the only PCI-E Nvidia video card there.`
`03:33.23`	`supertanker`	`Oh=kay good`
`03:33.34`	`supertanker`	`okay*`
`03:33.43`	`JeffM2501`	`NO`
`03:33.53`	`Gnurdux`	`supertanker, there are a TON of pci-e nvidia cards`
`03:34.02`	`supertanker`	`I didn't want anything but Nvidia`
`03:34.05`	`supertanker`	`I don't like ATI`
`03:34.11`	`spldart`	`:-(`
`03:34.20`	`Gnurdux`	`yes, but, there are LOTS of brands of nvidia cards`
`03:34.24`	`Gnurdux`	`nvidia is a chipset maker`
`03:34.28`	`Gnurdux`	`not a card maker`
`03:34.43`	`Gnurdux`	`and most brands sell several different nvidia pci-e cards`
`03:34.54`	`Gnurdux`	`ever been to newegg?`
`03:35.06`	`supertanker`	`...should I have been?`
`03:35.09`	`spldart`	`~karma newegg++`
`03:35.09`	`ibot`	`newegg++ has neutral karma`
`03:35.16`	`supertanker`	`I got this along with my new computer at Best Buy`
`03:35.20`	`supertanker`	`I was a little excited at the time`
`03:35.21`	`Gnurdux`	`ah`
`03:35.22`	`JeffM2501`	`hah`
`03:35.24`	`supertanker`	`and not thinking clearly`
`03:35.25`	`JeffM2501`	`you got riped off`
`03:35.30`	`Gnurdux`	`newegg sells tons of parts off line`
`03:35.47`	`Gnurdux`	`but your card is probably worth like 80 bucks`
`03:35.50`	`supertanker`	`no, I think it is worth it being able to play Halo for hte PC at 1280x768 with no lag and all settings maxed out`
`03:36.01`	`supertanker`	`besides, my friend paid for it. Not me.`
`03:36.02`	`JeffM2501`	`Gnurdux, doubtuf`
`03:36.05`	`supertanker`	`so I didn't care`
`03:36.12`	`Gnurdux`	`JeffM2501: you mean not even that much :P?`
`03:36.22`	`spldart`	`maybe a recondition 0_o`
`03:36.44`	`supertanker`	`but like I said`
`03:36.45`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:36.53`	`JeffM2501`	`both of you know nothing`
`03:36.54`	`supertanker`	`I didn't have to pay for it. So...I don't care :)`
`03:37.02`	`Gnurdux`	`supertanker: it might be worth it, but you could get the exact same card (same brand, specs, everything) from newegg for a much lower price`
`03:37.18`	`supertanker`	`I can get 800 fps on a Q2 based game if I want`
`03:37.18`	`Gnurdux`	`what maker is it?`
`03:37.22`	`supertanker`	`BFG`
`03:37.29`	`Gnurdux`	`oh, those look nice`
`03:37.34`	`Gnurdux`	`i was thinking of buying one`
`03:37.34`	`supertanker`	`it runs nice`
`03:37.38`	`Gnurdux`	`but i have only pci slots`
`03:37.39`	`supertanker`	`really nice`
`03:37.49`	`supertanker`	`only problem I can think of`
`03:37.49`	`Gnurdux`	`lemme find that card on newegg`
`03:37.58`	`supertanker`	`it needs a 350 watt power supply. And mine is only 300`
`03:38.02`	`Gnurdux`	`hehehehe`
`03:38.05`	`supertanker`	`I hope it doesn't burn up the card`
`03:38.09`	`supertanker`	`lol`
`03:38.09`	`JeffM2501`	`hah`
`03:38.15`	`Gnurdux`	`more likely to burn your power supply`
`03:38.21`	`Gnurdux`	`but probably not worth worrying over`
`03:38.37`	`supertanker`	`I still don't know how my old computer got by with 3 hard drives, a CDRW, and a floppy with a 125 watt`
`03:38.42`	`supertanker`	`probably really lucky`
`03:38.49`	`supertanker`	`or it's my magic computer touch`
`03:39.24`	`supertanker`	`dunno which. Luckily, that thing had a tiny 16 mb TNT2. didn't even have a heatsink`
`03:39.45`	`*** join/#bzflag compiler_success (n=compiler@219.95.187.146)`
`03:40.08`	`Gnurdux`	`supertanker: you didnt get ripped off`
`03:40.11`	`Gnurdux`	`at least not totally`
`03:40.11`	`supertanker`	`anyone ever hit 1000 fps on anything?`
`03:40.14`	`supertanker`	`lol`
`03:40.19`	`Gnurdux`	`not specifically by the store`
`03:40.29`	`Gnurdux`	`maybe by BFG and/or nvidia, but hey`
`03:40.38`	`Gnurdux`	`http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143048`
`03:40.42`	`Gnurdux`	`looks like a nice card`
`03:40.53`	`supertanker`	`you have to see halo runing at 1280x960`
`03:40.59`	`supertanker`	`to see how nice this card is`
`03:41.13`	`JeffM2501`	`umm a GF4 will do halo at that res`
`03:41.32`	`compiler_success`	`is there an option that turns momentom all the time? cause thats what I'm having in my bzfs`
`03:41.36`	`supertanker`	`with EVERYTING set to the max?`
`03:41.46`	`Gnurdux`	`compiler_success: yep`
`03:41.57`	`supertanker`	`and decals and all that fun stuff? without lagging on the largest level?`
`03:42.31`	`JeffM2501`	`halo is 4 years old`
`03:42.44`	`supertanker`	`Only thing is, it lags REALLY BAD in one area of Knights of the Old Republic`
`03:42.48`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes, low to midrange cards are fine on it`
`03:43.06`	`compiler_success`	`Gnurdux, please help with the "-option"`
`03:43.15`	`supertanker`	`you try running Halo on a GeForce w/ only 32 megs ram and then tell me that.`
`03:43.37`	`Gnurdux`	`compiler_success, i think its -a`
`03:43.51`	`supertanker`	`if you can still say that after attempting that, and getting through the entire campaign, my respect for you will increase 70-fold`
`03:44.02`	`compiler_success`	`I have that, but its "limit accerleration"`
`03:44.08`	`compiler_success`	`I will turn it off anyways and see`
`03:44.10`	`compiler_success`	`thanks`
`03:45.06`	`compiler_success`	`perfect. many thanks`
`03:45.10`	`Gnurdux`	`hehe`
`03:45.18`	`Gnurdux`	`what do you think "limit acceleration" means :P`
`03:45.51`	`compiler_success`	`:)`
`03:49.17`	`compiler_success`	`goodbye`
`03:51.09`	`*** join/#bzflag [NP]Tangent (n=hyperdev@71-211-208-106.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`03:52.58`	`supertanker`	`hmm....now I just have to transfer all the files from my old computer`
`03:53.50`	`supertanker`	`and recompile my 80-odd programs I cannot live without :(`
`03:54.04`	`spldart`	`80?!`
`03:54.30`	`supertanker`	`yeah`
`03:54.41`	`supertanker`	`I just now mangaed to get that down to 77`
`03:54.49`	`supertanker`	`after re-compiling PHP, Mysql, and Apache`
`03:55.08`	`supertanker`	`WHY don't they just save me the time and pre-install GD?`
`03:55.55`	`supertanker`	`GD is an image processing library for PHP. Then I have to get Inkscape and autopackage and Scons....`
`03:57.33`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe it is due to your keyboard problems`
`03:58.46`	`supertanker`	`I sense i'm about to walk into a joke...what problems?`
`03:59.07`	`JeffM2501`	`they keys keep going and going`
`03:59.12`	`supertanker`	`I KNEW IT`
`03:59.46`	`supertanker`	`no, its my perl script`
`04:00.14`	`supertanker`	`it makes it say random stuff all the time.`
`04:00.48`	`JeffM2501`	`riight`
`04:00.56`	`JeffM2501`	`have you looked into geting a blog`
`04:01.01`	`spldart`	`LOL`
`04:01.04`	`JeffM2501`	`as that seems what you neeed`
`04:01.09`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm serious`
`04:01.10`	`supertanker`	`I did`
`04:01.14`	`supertanker`	`a while ago. I had one.`
`04:01.20`	`supertanker`	`then I closed it because I needed the space on my site`
`04:01.44`	`supertanker`	`I'm serious`
`04:01.48`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean your obviously starved for attention`
`04:01.53`	`supertanker`	`ah`
`04:02.04`	`supertanker`	`I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not`
`04:02.16`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not`
`04:02.20`	`spldart`	`Put down the pipe and step back from the computer :-p`
`04:02.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you just babble on and onn`
`04:02.28`	`*** join/#bzflag shorty114 (i=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114)`
`04:02.33`	`JeffM2501`	`you ALWAYS do`
`04:02.53`	`supertanker`	`I'm only human....`
`04:03.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it's how I know :)`
`04:03.47`	`supertanker`	`haha`
`04:03.49`	`spldart`	`Cooking us something M_M`
`04:03.57`	`spldart`	`:~)`
`04:04.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sure he is`
`04:04.00`	`Mr_Molez`	`nah just thinking about how black they are :P`
`04:04.06`	`JeffM2501`	`he's just too embarsed to say`
`04:04.11`	`spldart`	`hehe`
`04:05.18`	`supertanker`	`There, happy?`
`04:05.19`	`supertanker`	`http://blog.levelzone.net/`
`04:06.23`	`supertanker`	`expect numorous pointless updates withen the next few days`
`04:08.17`	`supertanker`	`I actually wasted 11.5 megabytes just to make you happy`
`04:08.45`	`shorty114`	`supertanker, use wordpress not b2e :O`
`04:08.53`	`supertanker`	`oh yeah, I forgot about Wordpress!`
`04:09.03`	`shorty114`	`wp is much better`
`04:09.06`	`supertanker`	`right after I get it configured, THEN you tell me :(`
`04:09.09`	`JeffM2501`	`umm I was thinking like bloogspot, or LJ man`
`04:09.13`	`JeffM2501`	`a place that has like people`
`04:09.34`	`supertanker`	`I don't like depending on other people for my hosting`
`04:09.34`	`shorty114`	`blogger`
`04:09.38`	`supertanker`	`I like to have control of my files`
`04:09.39`	`shorty114`	`yeah`
`04:09.47`	`shorty114`	`it's a lot easier to have it hosted yourself`
`04:10.15`	`supertanker`	`it's a lot easier when you can install it by clicking 3 times in a Fantastico box too`
`04:11.03`	`shorty114`	`ewww fantastico`
`04:11.06`	`supertanker`	`see? WP is already there.`
`04:11.26`	`supertanker`	`Ooops, it doesn't like the ' in the title`
`04:12.07`	`shorty114`	`it should be able to handle it`
`04:12.29`	`shorty114`	`ooh that's a bug`
`04:12.35`	`supertanker`	`you think?`
`04:13.40`	`shorty114`	`nope it was fixed`
`04:13.49`	`shorty114`	`unless magic_quotes_gpc is on on your server`
`04:14.27`	`supertanker`	`I added that`
`04:14.32`	`supertanker`	`otherwise it doesn't like me`
`04:15.23`	`supertanker`	`There. A really cheep way to do it but it works`
`04:15.53`	`supertanker`	`How's the header color? (refresh the page)`
`04:18.36`	`supertanker`	`There. It's done. Happy now?`
`04:19.22`	`shorty114`	`supertanker, install K2 (getk2.com)`
`04:19.48`	`supertanker`	`never heard of it`
`04:20.38`	`supertanker`	`fascinating image on the front.....I don't think I feel like downloading this after seeing that`
`04:29.27`	`shorty114`	`supertanker, heh, but it's great theme`
`04:29.41`	`supertanker`	`I just installed it`
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`09:36.37`	`*** join/#bzflag Skeeve (n=Skeeve@p50895B69.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`09:36.52`	`Skeeve`	`~wake everyone`
`09:36.55`	`ibot`	`ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on everyone and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"`
`09:38.23`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`~poke Skeeve`
`09:38.24`	`ibot`	`ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Skeeve, pokes Skeeve repeatedly, hilarity ensues.`
`09:38.51`	`Skeeve`	`OMG... I need to go and translate that`
`09:39.02`	`Skeeve`	`~traslate en de ibot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Skeeve, pokes Skeeve repeatedly, hilarity ensues`
`09:39.16`	`Skeeve`	`~translate ibot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Skeeve, pokes Skeeve repeatedly, hilarity ensues`
`09:39.25`	`Skeeve`	`ARGH`
`09:39.37`	`Skeeve`	`~translate en de ibot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Skeeve, pokes Skeeve repeatedly, hilarity ensues`
`09:53.53`	`CBG`	`~x en de whatever`
`09:54.23`	`Skeeve`	`~x de en das ist ja noch besser, weil k�rzer`
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`13:29.48`	`TheBarron`	`CBG here?`
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`15:38.42`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca \|\| CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits`
`15:38.42`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`15:39.16`	`ToughShooter`	`~join #guleague`
`15:41.26`	`TimRiker`	`anyone working on bzflag for secondlife? :)`
`15:42.20`	`DTRemenak`	`that would be somewhat sick and twisted`
`15:42.35`	`TimRiker`	`all the more reason to hack it up. :)`
`15:43.04`	`TimRiker`	`a grid with scripts to tp you on a hit. should be fairly easy to hack up.`
`15:43.25`	`TimRiker`	`tanks you actually ride in and all.`
`15:43.35`	`TimRiker`	`flags should even be possible.`
`15:46.08`	`*** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-24-10-162-63.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
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`16:28.06`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
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`17:12.14`	`Skeeve`	`Hi DTRemenak!`
`17:13.00`	`DTRemenak`	`Hi Skeeve :)`
`17:13.49`	`Skeeve`	`Did you see my fix for /silence? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1553395&group_id=3248&atid=303248`
`17:14.00`	`Skeeve`	`It was a +/-1 problme`
`17:14.09`	`DTRemenak`	`nope, didn't see it`
`17:14.15`	`DTRemenak`	`still no internet at home`
`17:14.19`	`Skeeve`	`Those are not easy my professor used to say ;-)`
`17:14.33`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe you'll have it tongiht`
`17:14.41`	`Skeeve`	`You didn't move to East Germany, did you? ;-)`
`17:15.15`	`Skeeve`	`I haven't checkd yet, whether this fix is necessary for 2.1`
`17:15.56`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, no, no east germany`
`17:16.00`	`DTRemenak`	`and thanks JeffM2501 :)`
`17:16.07`	`JeffM2501`	`i just hope it works`
`17:16.38`	`DTRemenak`	`Skeeve: you might consider ways to calculate that value instead of just changing the hard-coded value from "9" to "8"`
`17:16.40`	`JeffM2501`	`unlike my speed check.. that did not work`
`17:16.57`	`DTRemenak`	`one of my professors used to say the only constants you should have in code are 0 and 1 ;)`
`17:17.14`	`JeffM2501`	`what if you are doing calculations on the standard model?`
`17:17.32`	`JeffM2501`	`or computing a circumfrance`
`17:17.46`	`JeffM2501`	`did he always compute his pi before using it? ;)`
`17:18.01`	`DTRemenak`	`no, it's named`
`17:18.05`	`JeffM2501`	`trig on angles musta sucked in his program :)`
`17:18.06`	`DTRemenak`	`"M_PI" is descriptive`
`17:18.08`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`17:18.24`	`JeffM2501`	`so #def MAGIC_NUMBER 8`
`17:18.37`	`DTRemenak`	`MAGIC_NUMBER is not descriptive :)`
`17:19.21`	`JeffM2501`	`#define _magic_number_that_makes_it_not_crash_cus_I_dont_know_how_it_works_and_the_guy_who_wrote_it_quit 8`
`17:19.48`	`DTRemenak`	`the correct answer in that case, according to my professor, was "learn how it works"`
`17:19.54`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`17:20.00`	`DTRemenak`	`professors are not always the most practical people around ;)`
`17:20.16`	`JeffM2501`	`obviously your professor never dealt with the internet and it's people :)`
`17:20.24`	`DTRemenak`	`like I said... ;)`
`17:21.07`	`JeffM2501`	`yay, no more real 8.0 bugs :)`
`17:21.21`	`DTRemenak`	`the rest are fake, eh? ;)`
`17:21.31`	`JeffM2501`	`well not important, or enhancementes`
`17:21.57`	`JeffM2501`	`noone uses the CPToPartFeat in mills yet, so it dosn't matter that we have 2 of them.`
`17:22.06`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`17:22.40`	`JeffM2501`	`time to nasty merge dev in :(`
`17:22.57`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, sounds like fun`
`17:23.05`	`JeffM2501`	`oh it will be`
`17:23.34`	`JeffM2501`	`it's also slow as hell`
`17:23.46`	`JeffM2501`	`so that means I can figure out why the fonts ain't drawing`
`17:24.08`	`JeffM2501`	`the openGL scroll bar came out prety cool`
`17:24.17`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`17:24.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I can probably make it decently generic, and we could have scrollable lists in bz.`
`17:24.57`	`JeffM2501`	`it can be key driven`
`17:25.11`	`DTRemenak`	`we have a cheesy scroll thingy already, iirc`
`17:25.19`	`DTRemenak`	`key driven, anyway`
`17:25.28`	`JeffM2501`	`we do?`
`17:25.30`	`DTRemenak`	`be nice to have a cool one though`
`17:25.32`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`17:25.36`	`JeffM2501`	`why isn't it used for the list server list?`
`17:25.41`	`DTRemenak`	`like a colored line with a white line on top of it`
`17:25.53`	`JeffM2501`	`what is it used for?`
`17:26.14`	`DTRemenak`	`control panel`
`17:26.33`	`JeffM2501`	`sorry, I meant list box`
`17:26.36`	`JeffM2501`	`not just scrollbar`
`17:26.41`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`17:26.42`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what I realy mad, a full blow list`
`17:26.59`	`JeffM2501`	`wow I can't type`
`17:27.43`	`DTRemenak`	`what can you stick in it? just text?`
`17:28.05`	`DTRemenak`	`or can you render into it or something?`
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`17:30.17`	`JeffM2501`	`right now it's doing a texture and text`
`17:30.51`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll make it call a child method for the drawing, so you could put whatever you want in it`
`17:31.03`	`JeffM2501`	`the items don't even have to be the same height`
`17:31.05`	`DTRemenak`	`that'd be cool`
`17:31.23`	`JeffM2501`	`then we could just derive off a text list, image list, etc...`
`17:35.14`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah`
`17:35.17`	`DTRemenak`	`that'd be cool`
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`18:31.42`	`amcnabb`	`I posted a patch to Sourceforge yesterday that adds freeze tag style play. If anyone has any feedback, I'd appreciate it.`
`18:31.56`	`CBG`	`freeze tag?`
`18:32.18`	`amcnabb`	`If you collide, the tank farther from home base freezes.`
`18:33.00`	`CBG`	`oh.. ok`
`18:33.18`	`CBG`	`so everyone would just stay at the base..?`
`18:34.11`	`amcnabb`	`Not if you're trying to capture the flag. :)`
`18:35.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host90-212.pool870.interbusiness.it)`
`18:36.19`	`trepan`	`amcnabb: why have freeze tags? when do they thaw? for no-shot servers?`
`18:37.41`	`amcnabb`	`I think it would only be interesting on no-shot servers.`
`18:37.51`	`amcnabb`	`You thaw if someone on your team collides with you.`
`18:38.13`	`CBG`	`oh, sounds very interesting`
`18:46.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host62-148.pool8256.interbusiness.it)`
`18:48.35`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@ip68-228-173-218.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`18:52.56`	`Mr_Molez`	`is there a way to only have good flags?`
`18:55.22`	`CBG`	`Mr_Molez: in general..?`
`18:55.35`	`CBG`	`'-f BAD' ?`
`18:56.04`	`Skeeve`	`Look at bdgerkings, Mr_M. Just good flags. Never a bad one`
`18:58.20`	`Skeeve`	`"amcnabb: If you collide, the tank farther from home base freezes"... I don't think this is practical on no shoot servers. Imagine I carry the enemie's flag and managed to bring half way home. From there on I'm unstoppable`
`19:04.09`	`amcnabb`	`That's a good point, but that's just part of what the variant rules dictate.`
`19:04.16`	`amcnabb`	`You'd better have good defense. :)`
`19:04.51`	`amcnabb`	`That's how it is in "real" (running around outside) capture the flag.`
`19:05.25`	`amcnabb`	`Once you cross the creek, you win.`
`19:05.31`	`CBG`	`Hmm, paintball..? :P`
`19:06.56`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com)`
`19:16.58`	`*** join/#bzflag zee189 (i=44bf97f3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/session)`
`19:17.36`	`zee189`	`hi`
`19:18.58`	`zee189`	`I'm working on something and need some help`
`19:19.22`	`blast007`	`can you be more specific? ;)`
`19:19.23`	`zee189`	`I could also use some help finding freenode on Mirc..it's not under the list?`
`19:19.29`	`TheBarron`	`don't ask for help on help, ask the problem`
`19:19.39`	`TheBarron`	`err`
`19:19.43`	`TheBarron`	`how'd you manage to get here?`
`19:19.51`	`zee189`	`website...`
`19:20.05`	`blast007`	`zee189: server address is irc.freenode.net port 6667`
`19:21.07`	`*** join/#bzflag Inferno (n=Inferno@68-191-151-243.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com)`
`19:21.18`	`Inferno`	`there, thank you blast`
`19:21.52`	`Inferno`	`I need to know if there is a way to detect where a shot ends in the bzfs source code`
`19:21.58`	`Inferno`	`I'm editing it for my mao`
`19:22.00`	`Inferno`	`map`
`19:22.48`	`Inferno`	`does anyone know how to help me here?`
`19:23.28`	`Inferno`	`all I want is a way to know what the shot's X Y and Z is when it "ends"`
`19:25.56`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149)`
`19:25.56`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ`
`19:28.52`	`blast007`	`Inferno: planning to do a shockwave where it ends? :)`
`19:29.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Aribeth (n=Aribeth@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`19:29.38`	`Inferno`	`not really`
`19:29.59`	`Inferno`	`I have super cool idea...`
`19:30.23`	`Aribeth`	`oh really???`
`19:30.25`	`Inferno`	`the player will shoot into different squares, kinda like a button to choose certain things`
`19:30.33`	`Inferno`	`I can't spoil the idea though`
`19:30.44`	`Inferno`	`yes Aribeth`
`19:30.50`	`Inferno`	`don't you believe me?`
`19:31.00`	`Aribeth`	`i duno yet`
`19:31.05`	`Inferno`	`lol, ok`
`19:31.50`	`Inferno`	`anyway, I'm looking at the source, and It doesn't appear to show the x, y and z of the end shot. But maybe there is some way to find out I donno about`
`19:33.51`	`Inferno`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:33.51`	`Inferno`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:33.51`	`Inferno`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:35.39`	`Inferno`	`you guys don't know about this stuff do you?`
`19:35.47`	`Inferno`	`not as smart as me :P`
`19:36.14`	`Inferno`	`eh`
`19:37.56`	`Inferno`	`shotUpdate.cxx ...let's look at this`
`19:41.28`	`blast007`	`might look at MsgShotEnd`
`19:44.36`	`Inferno`	`did...`
`19:44.50`	`Aribeth`	`hi blast007`
`19:45.26`	`CBG`	`blast007: was I as bas as this lastnight? :\|`
`19:46.42`	`*** join/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`19:46.43`	`JeffM2501`	`no more irix?`
`19:47.01`	`Inferno`	`Jeff, could you help with..my questions above?`
`19:47.22`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a question in all that?`
`19:47.50`	`JeffM2501`	`what is the question?`
`19:47.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I just got back from lunch`
`19:48.13`	`Inferno`	`uh, I need to know what the X Z and Y are of a shot when it ends`
`19:48.22`	`JeffM2501`	`on the client or the server?`
`19:48.33`	`Inferno`	`server, source`
`19:48.42`	`JeffM2501`	`shots arn't tracked, you don't know`
`19:48.45`	`Inferno`	`I'm just going to edit the source to get the job done`
`19:48.55`	`Inferno`	`huh :E`
`19:49.00`	`JeffM2501`	`every shot is at a difrent place on each client`
`19:49.16`	`JeffM2501`	`the server dosn't track shot postions on a per moment basis`
`19:49.17`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC`
`19:49.36`	`Inferno`	`is there a way to tell which direction a shot is going when it is "fired"`
`19:49.59`	`JeffM2501`	`server dosn't have a shot strat`
`19:50.08`	`Inferno`	`strat?`
`19:50.10`	`JeffM2501`	`let me double check tho`
`19:50.14`	`JeffM2501`	`strategy`
`19:50.14`	`Inferno`	`ok`
`19:50.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what computes the bounces and path of the shot`
`19:50.23`	`Skeeve`	`Doesn't the client tell the server when to end the shot?`
`19:50.30`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it does`
`19:50.33`	`Inferno`	`yes, but not where`
`19:50.36`	`CBG`	`when, not where.`
`19:50.40`	`JeffM2501`	`but it just passes it on, cus the server dosn't care where`
`19:50.44`	`JeffM2501`	`the other clients know where`
`19:50.47`	`JeffM2501`	`but the server does not`
`19:50.55`	`Inferno`	`oh, is that in bzfs.cxx`
`19:51.03`	`Skeeve`	`Why should the server know, Inferno?`
`19:51.14`	`Inferno`	`cheat detection ofcourse`
`19:51.18`	`JeffM2501`	`the server SHOLD know, so it can track shots`
`19:51.22`	`Skeeve`	`Ah! Ok!`
`19:51.37`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, with the current protocoll and server setup there is little cheat detection you can do in a server`
`19:51.55`	`Inferno`	`sure, ok`
`19:52.06`	`Inferno`	`that's what admins and cops are for :D`
`19:52.06`	`JeffM2501`	`you need a client type full game state to check for most things`
`19:52.52`	`JeffM2501`	`you can get the shot fired direciton from the shotbegin message`
`19:53.02`	`JeffM2501`	`but that won't count rico, ports, or GM updates`
`19:53.34`	`JeffM2501`	`what exactly are you trying to do?`
`19:53.45`	`Inferno`	`ok, I'll give it away`
`19:53.48`	`Inferno`	`making risk in bz`
`19:54.09`	`JeffM2501`	`so just change the proto to send the shot endpint`
`19:54.10`	`JeffM2501`	`point`
`19:54.22`	`Inferno`	`there will be a virtual minny map, that you shoot at or in or something to tell from, to, and where to place ur "tanks"`
`19:54.27`	`Skeeve`	`but that could be faked, Jeff`
`19:54.31`	`JeffM2501`	`shure`
`19:54.38`	`Inferno`	`why fake?`
`19:54.44`	`Inferno`	`Jeff, how change to do that?`
`19:54.47`	`JeffM2501`	`if your basing it off bzflag, then you arn't worried about security`
`19:54.50`	`Skeeve`	`I thought it was about cheatdetection`
`19:54.57`	`Inferno`	`Skeeve, it isn't`
`19:55.01`	`Skeeve`	`If I cheat I send the endpoint I want`
`19:55.05`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, go to where the cleint sends the message, and pack int he postion`
`19:55.17`	`JeffM2501`	`Skeeve, there are so many things you can cheat in, it's just one thing`
`19:55.42`	`Inferno`	`you mean in bzfs or bzflag ?`
`19:55.47`	`JeffM2501`	`he was just saying "cheat detction" because he thought it would make his answer magicaly appear`
`19:55.50`	`Inferno`	`I can't edit the client`
`19:55.52`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, in the client`
`19:55.57`	`Skeeve`	`See above: I thought Inferno wnated to check whether or not the user cheats`
`19:55.59`	`JeffM2501`	`theny our screwed`
`19:56.07`	`JeffM2501`	`Skeeve, he LIED`
`19:56.07`	`Inferno`	`ok...`
`19:56.18`	`CBG`	`OMFG!!`
`19:56.21`	`Inferno`	`where did I say that?`
`19:56.23`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, make a branch and just send them your own client`
`19:56.24`	`Skeeve`	`Liars? Liars ar cheaters ;-)`
`19:56.38`	`Skeeve`	`I leave... Until the next comercial break ;-)`
`19:56.39`	`JeffM2501`	`you are going to be VERY limited in what you can do and not change the client`
`19:56.58`	`Inferno`	`huh...sure`
`19:57.06`	`JeffM2501`	`and as Skeeve pointed out, you'll pick up every single bzflag cheat`
`19:57.17`	`Inferno`	`lol, sure`
`19:57.36`	`Inferno`	`I'm not concerned about cheating, cause cops can take care of that`
`19:57.48`	`JeffM2501`	`ok, well you cant get the info you want`
`19:57.49`	`Aribeth`	`HAHAHA`
`19:57.51`	`JeffM2501`	`the server dosn't have it`
`19:58.08`	`CBG`	`If they notice...`
`19:58.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it's his project, he can do what he wants`
`19:58.26`	`Inferno`	`yup, I'll have to like, find the start point and angle to find where the bullet would land up hitting the minimap..would that work or what?`
`19:58.41`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, don't forget rico`
`19:59.03`	`Inferno`	`I don't think that'll matter`
`19:59.15`	`JeffM2501`	`sure it will, what if they bounce the shot off a wall`
`19:59.25`	`Inferno`	`it won't do anything`
`19:59.29`	`JeffM2501`	`the shot fired direction will not be the same as the direction after the bounce`
`19:59.35`	`JeffM2501`	`then what if the bounce hits the map?`
`19:59.43`	`Inferno`	`They are screwed ;)`
`19:59.53`	`Inferno`	`I'll make a server msg explaining all the stuff`
`20:00.04`	`JeffM2501`	`ohhh kay, so your just gonna go with poor game design`
`20:00.07`	`JeffM2501`	`what ever floats your boat`
`20:00.13`	`Inferno`	`lol`
`20:00.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, you can get the shot fired dir, and time, and the end time, and compute a ray`
`20:00.31`	`JeffM2501`	`then see if that ray intersects the "map"`
`20:00.34`	`Inferno`	`5 hours at least, working on rico...wait of time`
`20:00.39`	`JeffM2501`	`tho it'll be affected by lag`
`20:00.50`	`Inferno`	`waist`
`20:01.03`	`JeffM2501`	`waste`
`20:01.03`	`CBG`	`waste`
`20:01.10`	`Inferno`	`lol, waste then`
`20:01.13`	`JeffM2501`	`even I can spell that ;)`
`20:01.23`	`Inferno`	`congrats`
`20:01.57`	`Inferno`	`anyway, change the client for me when you get a chance :P`
`20:02.01`	`Inferno`	`jsut a little update`
`20:02.05`	`JeffM2501`	`pardon me?`
`20:02.10`	`JeffM2501`	`that would make them all incompatable`
`20:02.15`	`Inferno`	`just kidding..but it would be nice`
`20:02.18`	`JeffM2501`	`make your own damn branch`
`20:02.24`	`CBG`	`Inferno: I'm doing it now, just send me $50 and I'll publish the changes.`
`20:02.41`	`Inferno`	`I want them under the normal branch if anything`
`20:02.50`	`JeffM2501`	`can't happen`
`20:03.00`	`Inferno`	`ok, then forget I said anything`
`20:03.05`	`JeffM2501`	`would break all old clients`
`20:03.12`	`JeffM2501`	`think then speak ;)`
`20:03.17`	`Aribeth`	`and how`
`20:03.21`	`CBG`	`it cant go into 2.1 ?`
`20:03.32`	`Inferno`	`would need to be 3.0 prob`
`20:03.51`	`CBG`	`Why so, Inferno ?`
`20:04.12`	`JeffM2501`	`2.2 should not send endshots at all`
`20:04.15`	`Inferno`	`cause it " would break all old clients"`
`20:04.26`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, the next release is 2.2`
`20:04.28`	`JeffM2501`	`not 3.0`
`20:04.34`	`Inferno`	`I know....`
`20:04.35`	`CBG`	`Inferno: there will be proto changes before 3.0...`
`20:04.41`	`JeffM2501`	`2.2 is not compatable with 2.0.x`
`20:04.49`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`20:04.51`	`CBG`	`heh`
`20:04.53`	`Inferno`	`huh`
`20:04.57`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`20:04.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it had meshes, 2.0 made sense :)`
`20:05.21`	`DTRemenak`	`I know...just sayin', don't discount the possibility of major changes making us change the major version :)`
`20:05.23`	`Inferno`	`ah, I get it now`
`20:05.32`	`JeffM2501`	`if a bunch of stuff changed, then yeah it can be 3.0`
`20:05.39`	`JeffM2501`	`just to change the name`
`20:05.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I think we did 2.0. cus we were geting long in the 1.x tooth`
`20:05.57`	`DTRemenak`	`I mean, I know it's not likely...but possiblities are possibilities`
`20:06.01`	`Inferno`	`like for example the devs got smarter, then maybe you could skip to 3.0`
`20:06.04`	`Inferno`	`:P`
`20:06.05`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't see 2.2 having masitve changes, to make us rename it 3`
`20:06.14`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, excuse me?`
`20:06.14`	`CBG`	`Inferno: huh? that makes no sense`
`20:06.26`	`JeffM2501`	`if you are here to insult, then just leave`
`20:06.35`	`DTRemenak`	`Inferno: time is a bigger factor for crappiness than "smarts"`
`20:06.40`	`CBG`	`"skipping" version numbers doesn't make any difference.`
`20:06.42`	`Inferno`	`there's always room for improvement?`
`20:06.53`	`CBG`	`Inferno: always room for a kick in the butt too`
`20:07.01`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`20:07.01`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, it can from a end user standpoint`
`20:07.01`	`Inferno`	`lol, ok`
`20:07.20`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`20:07.22`	`JeffM2501`	`we changed from 1.12 to 2.0 becuse there were big changes, and it's easyer to remember 2.0 then 1.12`
`20:07.31`	`Inferno`	`ok`
`20:07.34`	`Manu`	`Inferno: be smart.. be quiet ;)`
`20:07.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it just make it cooler to the end users`
`20:07.41`	`Inferno`	`I'll get to work on my Risk stuff`
`20:08.00`	`Inferno`	`Jeff, if you want I can let you be the first beta tester ;)`
`20:08.03`	`Birdie`	`uhoh, now its DTR with powers`
`20:08.10`	`CBG`	`JeffM2501: he was suggesting that if the devs made loads of new features after 2.2 was released, they would just release 3.0, but no matter how many amazing new features there are, you'd probably stick to the pattern and go to 2.4`
`20:08.14`	`JeffM2501`	`why do you think I would care about your risk thingy?`
`20:08.34`	`Inferno`	`cause, it's COOL`
`20:08.35`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, he was also sugesting we are all stupid ;)`
`20:08.36`	`Inferno`	`why else`
`20:08.39`	`JeffM2501`	`doubtfull`
`20:08.39`	`DTRemenak`	`CBG: I do not think you understand what he was suggesting :)`
`20:08.50`	`Manu`	`hehe`
`20:09.02`	`JeffM2501`	`unless your tanks turn into robots, I have no intrest.`
`20:09.05`	`CBG`	`yeah, I brushed over the stupid csuggestion ;)`
`20:09.39`	`Inferno`	`like, they morph into robots visually?`
`20:09.46`	`JeffM2501`	`no, transform!`
`20:09.49`	`Inferno`	`the client would have to change then?`
`20:09.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and roll out`
`20:09.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so`
`20:09.55`	`DTRemenak`	`and smash things`
`20:09.58`	`JeffM2501`	`what's wrong with client changes`
`20:10.04`	`JeffM2501`	`the client needs changes`
`20:10.06`	`Inferno`	`I'm not into that`
`20:10.06`	`CBG`	`and have arms and legs..?`
`20:10.11`	`JeffM2501`	`LOTS of changes`
`20:10.14`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, totaly`
`20:10.16`	`DTRemenak`	`you can always get into that ;)`
`20:10.18`	`CBG`	`client changes rock.`
`20:10.18`	`Inferno`	`lol, Jeff suggests the client could use changes :P`
`20:10.26`	`DTRemenak`	`he speaks truth`
`20:10.31`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, yeah everyone knows that`
`20:10.37`	`JeffM2501`	`why do you find it funny?`
`20:10.39`	`Inferno`	`could I dev something and send it to one of you guys to see if it's "good" enough ?`
`20:10.42`	`CBG`	`cool, so you would have a huge robot dude stomping on all the tanks... nice`
`20:10.45`	`JeffM2501`	`2.1 has a number of changes`
`20:10.53`	`DTRemenak`	`that's what the patch tracker is for, Inferno`
`20:10.53`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, good enough for what?`
`20:11.06`	`CBG`	`look at all those new client effects we have now since 1.x... ;)`
`20:11.12`	`Inferno`	`for...you guys to release it`
`20:11.28`	`JeffM2501`	`then yes, that is what patches are for`
`20:11.31`	`menotume`	`clent affects ?`
`20:11.32`	`Inferno`	`what's patch tracker?`
`20:11.42`	`menotume`	`oh yeah, forgot about those, turned them off :)`
`20:11.42`	`JeffM2501`	`a place that tracks user submited patches`
`20:11.44`	`Aribeth`	`so what is this suposed to do inferno?`
`20:11.49`	`CBG`	`menotume: ditto :D`
`20:11.57`	`Inferno`	`Aribeth...what?`
`20:11.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it puts LOL and :P in all sentances`
`20:12.06`	`Aribeth`	`your hack`
`20:12.10`	`menotume`	`lol :P`
`20:12.20`	`Inferno`	`make Risk in bz possible`
`20:12.21`	`Aribeth`	`haha`
`20:12.35`	`CBG`	`it also calls people stupid when it should be nice 'cause it's asking for help`
`20:12.39`	`JeffM2501`	`sure if you did it as API changes for the plugins`
`20:13.21`	`Inferno`	`Jeff, you mean API changes to the client for ppl-like-me's plugins?`
`20:13.37`	`CBG`	`ppl-like-me ?`
`20:13.44`	`JeffM2501`	`the client has no API`
`20:13.50`	`DTRemenak`	`Inferno: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=303248&group_id=3248&func=browse is the Patch Tracker`
`20:13.50`	`JeffM2501`	`you realy don't know what your talking about do you?`
`20:13.58`	`JeffM2501`	`the API and plugins are server side`
`20:14.16`	`Inferno`	`I have to admit I'm not a dev myself...and I don't even know what it is`
`20:14.28`	`JeffM2501`	`well you've always been full of hot air`
`20:14.31`	`Inferno`	`I don't know what an API is...`
`20:14.32`	`CBG`	`a dev? that would be a developer.`
`20:14.34`	`JeffM2501`	`or soemthing`
`20:14.35`	`Aribeth`	`lol`
`20:14.44`	`JeffM2501`	`what ever it is, it's warm`
`20:14.48`	`Aribeth`	`just hot air?`
`20:14.52`	`Inferno`	`hot air?`
`20:15.09`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`20:15.14`	`DTRemenak`	`hot air.`
`20:15.20`	`JeffM2501`	`but have fun working on your little mod`
`20:15.29`	`SportyGal`	`aribeth?!`
`20:15.30`	`Inferno`	`yeh, asses always have fun :P`
`20:15.37`	`Aribeth`	`hi Sporty`
`20:15.43`	`SportyGal`	`hiya :)`
`20:15.51`	`SportyGal`	`we've missed you, ari :)`
`20:16.04`	`JeffM2501`	`oh he's got less then 3 min left`
`20:16.29`	`Aribeth`	`hi DTR`
`20:16.34`	`DTRemenak`	`howdy`
`20:16.54`	`Aribeth`	`i've been playing evercrsck`
`20:17.03`	`Aribeth`	`evercrack`
`20:17.10`	`Birdie`	`no more runescape?`
`20:17.16`	`Aribeth`	`nope`
`20:17.23`	`JeffM2501`	`now you can move on to WoW`
`20:17.24`	`Aribeth`	`too many kids`
`20:17.44`	`Aribeth`	`nope, can only aford 1 game`
`20:17.47`	`Inferno`	`Aribeth, I take that personally`
`20:17.57`	`Aribeth`	`ok`
`20:18.08`	`CBG`	`Good.`
`20:18.12`	`Birdie`	`kids can be cool, but also very annoying somethimes`
`20:18.41`	`CBG`	`yeah, if they are a pain just ban them for 2 weeks, right Birdie ? :)`
`20:18.42`	`JeffM2501`	`more the later then the former on the net it seems`
`20:18.44`	`Inferno`	`yes, I am cool...but not really that annoying`
`20:18.50`	`Aribeth`	`what i marn is its full of kids that want your stuff, and winne when they dont get it`
`20:19.03`	`Birdie`	`inferno: you cant say from yourself if your annoying or not, others decide that:)`
`20:19.14`	`CBG`	`Inferno: uh, isn't that for OTHER's to decide about YOU?`
`20:19.57`	`Aribeth`	`inferno: its up to us to decide if your cool, etc`
`20:20.13`	`Birdie`	`he got it now three times, i think he will know that we are right`
`20:20.16`	`Inferno`	`am I muted or something?`
`20:20.20`	`Inferno`	`huh?`
`20:20.29`	`Birdie`	`you got it from all age categorys (almost) now:)`
`20:20.33`	`Aribeth`	`you want to be?`
`20:20.33`	`Skeeve`	`Where is Inferno gone?`
`20:20.35`	`CBG`	`huhuhuh?`
`20:20.48`	`Skeeve`	`Did somebody mute him?`
`20:20.48`	`Inferno`	`it didn't let me type for like...sometimes`
`20:21.05`	`CBG`	`But it's fixed now? Damn.`
`20:21.18`	`Aribeth`	`well, im enjoying playing everquest`
`20:21.21`	`Inferno`	`CBG, you are correct`
`20:21.26`	`DTRemenak`	`heh "not really that annoying"...`
`20:21.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I just put ! infront of what ever he says`
`20:21.59`	`JeffM2501`	`makes a lot more sense`
`20:22.07`	`Aribeth`	`HAHAHAHAAAAAA`
`20:22.16`	`Inferno`	`you can do that?`
`20:22.31`	`DTRemenak`	`...`
`20:22.55`	`Aribeth`	`jeffM2501 can do what he wants`
`20:23.09`	`Skeeve`	`Hmmmm... ! sometext always gives false in Perl`
`20:23.23`	`Skeeve`	`What about C++`
`20:23.35`	`Inferno`	`Jeff, whatcha making?`
`20:23.42`	`Skeeve`	`s/false/undef/`
`20:23.51`	`JeffM2501`	`Skeeve, good thing I hate perl then`
`20:23.54`	`Inferno`	`I know perl...could I help?`
`20:24.06`	`Inferno`	`Perl is the future and the past`
`20:24.11`	`Inferno`	`it binds the 2 together`
`20:24.12`	`Skeeve`	`So what does ! sometext in C++ give, Jeff?`
`20:24.35`	`JeffM2501`	`depends what the text is :)`
`20:24.38`	`Skeeve`	`I doubt, you could teach me something in Perl, Inferno`
`20:24.49`	`Inferno`	`ok...`
`20:24.54`	`Skeeve`	`Let the text be "Inferno"`
`20:25.04`	`Skeeve`	`What does ! "Inferno" give in C++`
`20:25.17`	`Manu`	`Skeeve: syntax error ;)`
`20:25.31`	`Skeeve`	`Okay I hate C++ then ;-)`
`20:25.31`	`Manu`	`couldn't resist :)`
`20:25.32`	`Aribeth`	`lol`
`20:25.34`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd never have a line just like that`
`20:25.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't matter it was a joke`
`20:25.44`	`Aribeth`	`nope`
`20:26.06`	`Skeeve`	`So then if ( ! "Inferno" ) { cout << "Lucky you"; }`
`20:26.10`	`Skeeve`	`Does this work?`
`20:26.19`	`JeffM2501`	`learn C and find out`
`20:26.31`	`Skeeve`	`;-) Nope Jeff... Don't care enough`
`20:26.43`	`Inferno`	`HAHA, haaaaaaaa, SKeeve got burned in the butt!`
`20:26.45`	`JeffM2501`	`then there is your answer`
`20:26.48`	`Skeeve`	`Just a joke because of you hating Perl`
`20:27.04`	`JeffM2501`	`all in favor of booting the fire?`
`20:27.17`	`Inferno`	`I'll leave first?`
`20:27.26`	`JeffM2501`	`well your still here`
`20:27.30`	`JeffM2501`	`and babblin`
`20:27.30`	`Aribeth`	`here here`
`20:27.31`	`*** kick/#bzflag [Inferno!n=dtremena@users.gibbscam.com] by DTRemenak (say aye...)`
`20:28.18`	`Skeeve`	`Where is Inferno gone?`
`20:28.20`	`Skeeve`	`;-)`
`20:28.37`	`Skeeve`	`Jeff... Was Inferno "disruptive"?`
`20:30.02`	`*** mode/#bzflag [-o DTRemenak] by DTRemenak`
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`20:33.06`	`Gnurdux`	`a_temp_dist, did you get it working?`
`20:35.30`	`JeffM2501`	`very much so`
`20:40.18`	`Skeeve`	`Who else checks patches and bug reports besides DTRemenak?`
`20:40.34`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`20:40.50`	`Skeeve`	`Hey! You don't have Internet at home!`
`20:41.06`	`Skeeve`	`So the fix I supplied won't make it into the source until then`
`20:41.15`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe, I know`
`20:41.24`	`DTRemenak`	`I just thought it was an amusing question to be asking`
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`20:41.44`	`DTRemenak`	`(if perfectly legetimate)`
`20:42.08`	`JeffM2501`	`who ever wants to`
`20:42.18`	`JeffM2501`	`they usualy get scanned before a release`
`20:43.11`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't have a relase pending soon, so it dosn't have to be applied right now`
`20:43.23`	`JeffM2501`	`unless it's a huge security flaw`
`20:43.25`	`DTRemenak`	`better to be applied sooner than later, gets more testing`
`20:43.30`	`JeffM2501`	`this is truew`
`20:43.49`	`DTRemenak`	`but I should have internet soon (thx again JeffM2501 :) )`
`20:43.53`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`20:43.58`	`JeffM2501`	`you coudl commit it from here`
`20:44.02`	`JeffM2501`	`if you wanted`
`20:44.08`	`JeffM2501`	`we dont' log or anything`
`20:44.18`	`DTRemenak`	`can't test thouroughly from here`
`20:44.25`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah client testing is a pain`
`20:44.29`	`JeffM2501`	`little tiny windows :)`
`20:44.37`	`JeffM2501`	`320x240`
`20:44.39`	`DTRemenak`	`and it's a joystick patch`
`20:44.49`	`DTRemenak`	`although I bet this SpacePilot thing could emulate a joystick`
`20:44.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I have a couple here IIRC`
`20:45.05`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`20:45.48`	`DTRemenak`	`it'd probably be a pretty good controller for bz, actually`
`20:46.01`	`JeffM2501`	`posibly`
`20:46.44`	`DTRemenak`	`the pressure-sensitive thing seems to fit in pretty well with our odd mousebox-ish control system`
`20:47.08`	`JeffM2501`	`analog jump would be wierd`
`20:47.19`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`20:47.22`	`Skeeve`	`No! It's a /silence patch`
`20:47.30`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't think I'd map the z axis :)`
`20:47.38`	`Skeeve`	`The joystick patch isn't what I meant`
`20:47.51`	`DTRemenak`	`well, same deal, still have to test with a client`
`20:48.04`	`DTRemenak`	`although that one any dev could test for you`
`20:48.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it's hard enough for me to test an editor here`
`20:50.00`	`DTRemenak`	`just have to make it look more like virtual ;)`
`20:50.19`	`JeffM2501`	`or be virtual`
`20:50.23`	`JeffM2501`	`sadly it does not do textures`
`20:50.49`	`DTRemenak`	`I heard rumors that we were considering letting materials set textures?`
`20:51.01`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe`
`20:51.11`	`DTRemenak`	`thus the "considering"`
`20:51.23`	`JeffM2501`	`we may change markers to use textures too`
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`21:06.35`	`JeffM2501`	`yay for list boxes, http://www.opencombat.net/files/images/pp2.PNG`
`21:06.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it shoudl work with BZs font system as well`
`21:07.20`	`DTRemenak`	`sometimes I think I'm an idiot for putting PNG in my pounce list ;)`
`21:07.26`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
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`23:38.25`	`supertanker`	`ugh.`
`23:38.52`	`supertanker`	`next time somone asks me to host their site, I'm saying no`
`23:39.11`	`amcnabb`	`I'm confused about one detail with flags.`
`23:39.25`	`supertanker`	`what`
`23:39.31`	`amcnabb`	`If I do something like:`
`23:39.32`	`amcnabb`	`Flag& flag = world->getFlag(i);`
`23:39.55`	`amcnabb`	`then flag.position seems to remain the original position of the flag instead of its current position.`
`23:40.42`	`amcnabb`	`It seemed that "position" should be the current position, but I guess I was wrong.`
`23:40.59`	`amcnabb`	`If I need the flag's position, should I lookup the position of the player who's carrying it?`
`23:41.57`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`23:42.08`	`DTRemenak`	`flag position is only set while the flag is not being carried`
`23:42.13`	`DTRemenak`	`e.g. while the flag is "in the world"`
`23:42.58`	`amcnabb`	`cool`
`23:43.04`	`DTRemenak`	`or you could change/fix that. it would require a bit of work, but it'd be consistent that way. I don't think anything depends on it being the way it is.`
`23:43.25`	`amcnabb`	`I think the behavior is fine, I just didn't immediately predict that it would happen that way.`
`23:43.40`	`amcnabb`	`I think a comment in the source would be fine.`
`23:45.39`	`amcnabb`	`Thanks again.`
`23:46.07`	`DTRemenak`	`no problem. it confused me when I hit that the first time, too :)`
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