irclog2html for #bzflag on 20060513

`00:04.05`	`JeffM2501`	`the backup ability will probably be the cincher`
`00:04.13`	`JeffM2501`	`cvs has the rsync thing now, and that's cool`
`00:04.25`	`JeffM2501`	`tho svn may have the same deal on sf`
`00:31.50`	`SeaSharp`	`hrm`
`00:31.57`	`SeaSharp`	`I yum installed bzflag on my server`
`00:32.16`	`SeaSharp`	`One instance is working fine on port 5154, I made another for 5155 and it is not showing up on the serverlist`
`00:32.19`	`SeaSharp`	`any ideas?`
`00:32.28`	`JeffM2501`	`what version is in yum?`
`00:32.41`	`SeaSharp`	`.4 methinks`
`00:32.41`	`A_Meteorite`	`You need to also set -publicaddr ip:port`
`00:32.44`	`JeffM2501`	`and what did you do for your -publicaddr for the second one`
`00:32.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:32.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`otherwise only one gets on`
`00:32.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`and of course set -p`
`00:33.02`	`SeaSharp`	`I did set it, and no gfo`
`00:33.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`both need to be like that`
`00:33.27`	`A_Meteorite`	`-p 5154 -publicaddr myip:5154`
`00:33.32`	`A_Meteorite`	`-p 5155 -publicaddr myip:5155`
`00:33.42`	`SeaSharp`	`they are both -p and the publicaddr is correct, the process fires up as usual but does not show`
`00:33.57`	`SeaSharp`	`both in one conf?`
`00:34.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`no`
`00:34.04`	`SeaSharp`	`good:P`
`00:34.08`	`A_Meteorite`	`but each config needs to be set like that`
`00:34.17`	`A_Meteorite`	`otherwise one will get on server list and the other won't`
`00:34.22`	`SeaSharp`	`oh`
`00:34.27`	`JeffM2501`	`don't put the publicaddr in the conf`
`00:34.31`	`JeffM2501`	`and add it to the command line`
`00:34.38`	`JeffM2501`	`then you can share confs`
`00:34.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`yeah, that's a good idea`
`00:34.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`you can even do a bash script to start servers`
`00:34.55`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:34.59`	`JeffM2501`	`most people use a script`
`00:35.01`	`A_Meteorite`	`start.sh PORT CONFIG-NAME`
`00:35.02`	`SeaSharp`	`hehe I seriously need help :P`
`00:35.06`	`A_Meteorite`	`I got a simple one`
`00:35.18`	`A_Meteorite`	`it even starts a log like 5154-boxywar.log`
`00:35.19`	`JeffM2501`	`heh, an your the hosting person? ;)`
`00:35.31`	`SeaSharp`	`I thought firing up the game as seperate users, seperate confs, just different ports would werk`
`00:35.49`	`SeaSharp`	`even flushed my firewall rules`
`00:35.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it can, you just have to change the publicaddr`
`00:35.53`	`A_Meteorite`	`it would, but you need to pay attention to ports and publicaddr`
`00:35.59`	`JeffM2501`	`or remove the publicaddr and go by IP alone`
`00:36.08`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, remember, bzflag wasn't made for internet play ;)`
`00:36.11`	`SeaSharp`	`I changed the -p to 5155 and publicaddr to ip:5155`
`00:36.28`	`SeaSharp`	`hrm`
`00:36.36`	`SeaSharp`	`ill play around a bit more and see what happens:)`
`00:36.42`	`JeffM2501`	`or just read the docs`
`00:36.50`	`SeaSharp`	`This is the first time running more than a single instance on one box for me`
`00:37.18`	`JeffM2501`	`if you are going to host a lot of them, it would be best if you got it down to an automated process`
`00:37.35`	`SeaSharp`	`definately..`
`00:37.50`	`SeaSharp`	`I may have androsyn gimmie a hand with it, he's a nix god:)`
`00:37.53`	`JeffM2501`	`probably should have set all that up before you anounced hosting too`
`00:38.01`	`SeaSharp`	`by all rights, it should work`
`00:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`or it makes you look less relyable`
`00:38.13`	`JeffM2501`	`sould and will are not always the same thing`
`00:38.20`	`SeaSharp`	`aww it will be working within an hour or two`
`00:38.45`	`SeaSharp`	`thanks tho:)`
`00:39.18`	`JeffM2501`	`you also need to make sure that your users can't go step on each other's ports`
`00:39.36`	`A_Meteorite`	`That will be hard`
`00:39.40`	`A_Meteorite`	`sorta`
`00:39.43`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`00:40.07`	`JeffM2501`	`can't you set some permision to let each user only have acccess to a specific port range?`
`00:40.26`	`A_Meteorite`	`JeffM2501: no, not really`
`00:40.28`	`JeffM2501`	`like a modified chroot jail?`
`00:40.57`	`JeffM2501`	`linux blocks some ports to root right?`
`00:41.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`you probably could then, but that's more work than a bash script ;)`
`00:41.06`	`JeffM2501`	`ether above or below 1024?`
`00:41.21`	`JeffM2501`	`well for a hosting provider I'd think you'd want each person in there own jail`
`00:41.22`	`SeaSharp`	`ah hah`
`00:41.38`	`SeaSharp`	`I can login, just it is not in the public list`
`00:41.44`	`SeaSharp`	`ill check publicaddr again`
`00:41.58`	`JeffM2501`	`or give them a webconf to upload config files and start and stop servers`
`00:42.09`	`JeffM2501`	`then have that web thing enforce the port`
`00:42.12`	`CBG`	`SeaSharp: you also need -public to get on the list`
`00:42.17`	`JeffM2501`	`and don't give them execute`
`00:42.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`CBG: Totally forgot about that one :)`
`00:42.40`	`JeffM2501`	`otherwise what's to prevent them from running more then one :)`
`00:42.49`	`SeaSharp`	`we are working out details, setting the box up to only allow certain ports to be used per account`
`00:43.04`	`CBG`	`Wow, I said something that was actually helpful? Sweetness.`
`00:43.19`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, how are you going to prevent a server from having more 'slots" then the user paid for?`
`00:43.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`But, SeaSharp, it is so easy for people to host their own, I really doubt you'll get much business.`
`00:43.32`	`A_Meteorite`	`I host on a 100megabit for free right now (no, not saying who).`
`00:43.36`	`JeffM2501`	`if he has a fat pipe`
`00:43.39`	`JeffM2501`	`he may get some`
`00:43.50`	`JeffM2501`	`like a nid class fatpipe`
`00:43.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`00:44.02`	`A_Meteorite`	`latency also matters`
`00:44.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`:P`
`00:44.04`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`00:44.12`	`JeffM2501`	`fat pipes usualy mean lower latency too`
`00:44.19`	`JeffM2501`	`cus your datacentered to get the pipe`
`00:44.26`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't get 100 megs to your house ;)`
`00:44.29`	`A_Meteorite`	`who cares if you got an oc-255 if it's 200ms latency (but I know that won't ever happen ;) )`
`00:44.39`	`A_Meteorite`	`just using that as an example`
`00:44.43`	`SeaSharp`	`lool`
`00:44.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it's an improbable case`
`00:44.51`	`SeaSharp`	`I will monitor`
`00:44.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`very`
`00:44.59`	`A_Meteorite`	`unless the Internet is crashing`
`00:45.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`00:45.03`	`SeaSharp`	`and I found the problem, accidently threw in the ip of my other box`
`00:45.10`	`A_Meteorite`	`lol`
`00:45.10`	`JeffM2501`	`then it dosnt' mater how big your pipe is`
`00:45.14`	`SeaSharp`	`I have 4 boxes now and get em confused here and there`
`00:45.15`	`L4m3r`	`I still like the "run your own datacenter in your newly-acquired decomissioned miliary bunker"`
`00:45.19`	`L4m3r`	`idea`
`00:45.22`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, how much bandwith do you have to the machine?`
`00:45.36`	`SeaSharp`	`this server is 100Mbit dedicated`
`00:45.37`	`A_Meteorite`	`even a t3 would do nicely, could get a couple hundred players`
`00:45.44`	`SeaSharp`	`the dc I coadmin has a gigabit uplink`
`00:45.50`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, cool`
`00:46.02`	`A_Meteorite`	`I would think they oversell that gigabit`
`00:46.03`	`SeaSharp`	`I have 8 more boxes waiting for me to fill ;)`
`00:46.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`like putting 100 "100Mbit dedicated" on a gigabit`
`00:46.29`	`SeaSharp`	`our clients that lease boxes lease em for corporate websites and email, not much bw used`
`00:46.35`	`JeffM2501`	`that happens a lot actualy`
`00:46.37`	`A_Meteorite`	`ah`
`00:46.51`	`SeaSharp`	`We do not allow itc ports and such`
`00:46.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`'cause a real 100Mbit is NOT cheap`
`00:46.56`	`JeffM2501`	`nid says there are some prety bad racks at his place`
`00:47.18`	`JeffM2501`	`if I was doing a hosting service I'd do it all via a web config`
`00:47.20`	`SeaSharp`	`We have been beta testing a fibre setup for Sprint, or so I have heard`
`00:47.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`considering a t3 goes for about $3,000-$3,500 / month`
`00:47.24`	`JeffM2501`	`give em full controll, just not shell`
`00:47.26`	`SeaSharp`	`4x255Mbit bound`
`00:47.29`	`JeffM2501`	`since they shoudl not need shell`
`00:47.47`	`SeaSharp`	`definately:)`
`00:47.57`	`A_Meteorite`	`giving shell without some special chroot trickery in place is bad ;)`
`00:48.10`	`SeaSharp`	`Essentially, at first they will just upload the files to their account via scp, I will run the cmd to start the server and crontab it`
`00:48.11`	`JeffM2501`	`then your web config can enforce the player limits, and ports`
`00:48.35`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, know that most windows users don't know what "SCP" is`
`00:48.35`	`SeaSharp`	`Until I can get a webcomfig script together`
`00:48.37`	`SeaSharp`	`hehe`
`00:48.48`	`SeaSharp`	`true`
`00:48.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`or SSH for that matter`
`00:49.01`	`CBG`	`scp is a basic command, should be simple for anyone to use`
`00:49.04`	`JeffM2501`	`and bzflag is over 1/2 windows users`
`00:49.10`	`A_Meteorite`	`I had a hard time explaining SSH to a windows user`
`00:49.12`	`CBG`	`would only a few minutes explaining...`
`00:49.13`	`SeaSharp`	`I just recommend anyone google winscp`
`00:49.17`	`A_Meteorite`	`"how do you login to another computer?"`
`00:49.18`	`SeaSharp`	`free app that works nicely`
`00:49.21`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, windows dosnt' have ssh by default`
`00:49.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`"but that's impossible"`
`00:49.39`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, or just set up an e-mail addy to accept it all :)`
`00:49.42`	`CBG`	`ssh and scp are not separate things?`
`00:49.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`CBG: they are seperate`
`00:50.04`	`JeffM2501`	`there are windows file transfer apps that look like FTP but go over SSH`
`00:50.44`	`CBG`	`I don't get JeffM2501's comment about windows not having SSH. I was talking about scp.`
`00:50.55`	`JeffM2501`	`scp goes over SSH`
`00:51.01`	`JeffM2501`	`windows has no SSH of any type`
`00:51.03`	`CBG`	`ok`
`00:51.03`	`JeffM2501`	`by default`
`00:51.06`	`JeffM2501`	`nada`
`00:51.08`	`JeffM2501`	`squat`
`00:51.14`	`JeffM2501`	`peopel don't like to install apps just to send a file`
`00:51.15`	`CBG`	`ftp then?`
`00:51.20`	`JeffM2501`	`using IE`
`00:51.21`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`00:51.24`	`SeaSharp`	`sweet`
`00:51.27`	`JeffM2501`	`but why not e-mail?`
`00:51.30`	`SeaSharp`	`one is up, now for another`
`00:51.32`	`JeffM2501`	`configs arn't big`
`00:51.40`	`SeaSharp`	`a heart attack and rpg sent me maps to host for a month free`
`00:52.22`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone ponied up any cash for you?`
`00:53.11`	`L4m3r`	`I'm enjoying the last few weeks of my free pipe :(`
`00:53.22`	`JeffM2501`	`doing dorms next year?`
`00:53.35`	`donny_baker_`	`There is a nice open source SCP client called WinSCP`
`00:53.44`	`SeaSharp`	`not yet, I am hosting these 2 maps for a month free to bring in interest`
`00:54.09`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp, just so you know, most people who want to "start a server" are like 14`
`00:54.19`	`JeffM2501`	`so good luck geting real cash out of em :)`
`00:54.37`	`L4m3r`	`Jeff: yeah, but that leaves a 3-month gap`
`00:54.38`	`donny_baker_`	`and are very non-technical... look in the forums at all the questions`
`00:54.48`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`00:54.48`	`JeffM2501`	`L4m3r, dude you'll get the shakes`
`00:55.03`	`L4m3r`	`lol`
`00:55.12`	`donny_baker_`	`you could always stay for summer courses :P`
`00:55.15`	`L4m3r`	`I'll miss having a 15ms ping on the mofo server`
`00:55.20`	`JeffM2501`	`it would probably be good to modify the web based config generator we have to work and make configs on the server`
`00:55.33`	`JeffM2501`	`then they would have a graphical configer`
`00:55.43`	`L4m3r`	`donny, I would, but I'm broke. I need to work this summer lol`
`00:56.07`	`donny_baker_`	`might want to talk to thumper too.. he has some web log management stuff`
`00:56.23`	`donny_baker_`	`not sure he would part with it, but it is nice`
`00:56.53`	`SeaSharp`	`what's your company's name?`
`00:57.00`	`JeffM2501`	`Gibbs and Associates`
`00:57.05`	`SeaSharp`	`LOL`
`00:57.12`	`SeaSharp`	`your last name is Gibbs too?`
`00:57.19`	`JeffM2501`	`no, the owners is`
`00:57.32`	`SeaSharp`	`holy wow`
`00:57.36`	`SeaSharp`	`what's his first name?`
`00:57.40`	`JeffM2501`	`Bill`
`00:57.41`	`SeaSharp`	`Martin?`
`00:57.43`	`SeaSharp`	`ahh`
`00:57.49`	`SeaSharp`	`I don't know a Bill Gibbs`
`00:57.52`	`SeaSharp`	`that IS hilarious`
`00:58.04`	`donny_baker_`	`L4m3r:You have summer work?`
`00:58.04`	`JeffM2501`	`then you probably don't run in the CAD/CAM ciricles`
`00:58.14`	`L4m3r`	`Not yet. Job offer pending.`
`00:58.35`	`donny_baker_`	`L4m3r:In what field?`
`00:58.38`	`SeaSharp`	`I will see how this box does hosting 3 maps, it should not be an issue for it`
`00:58.40`	`L4m3r`	`lol....`
`00:58.42`	`L4m3r`	`catering`
`00:58.45`	`SeaSharp`	`Jeff`
`00:58.51`	`SeaSharp`	`I have a hat on my desk`
`00:58.51`	`JeffM2501`	`SeaSharp,`
`00:58.52`	`SeaSharp`	`GibbsCAM`
`00:58.56`	`JeffM2501`	`there ya go then`
`00:58.59`	`A_Meteorite`	`SeaSharp: you could do a lot, BZFS uses maybe 1-2% CPU`
`00:59.00`	`JeffM2501`	`we have a room full of them`
`00:59.06`	`SeaSharp`	`My dad manages the machine shop a block away, and we use gibbscam`
`00:59.08`	`donny_baker_`	`your studying IT right?`
`00:59.13`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`00:59.14`	`L4m3r`	`CS, yes`
`00:59.21`	`JeffM2501`	`then he's using stuff I wrote ;)`
`00:59.21`	`SeaSharp`	`small friggen world Jeff:)`
`00:59.27`	`SeaSharp`	`Holy WOW`
`00:59.29`	`SeaSharp`	`sweet:)`
`00:59.31`	`JeffM2501`	`well we are #3`
`00:59.54`	`donny_baker_`	`any web programming experience? Specifically C#/VB.Net?`
`00:59.55`	`SeaSharp`	`hehe callin my dad to tell him this`
`01:00.21`	`L4m3r`	`I've tinkered with PHP/mySQL, that's about it`
`01:00.54`	`donny_baker_`	`ah.. ok, am thinking about hiring an intern this summer for web development stuff`
`01:01.31`	`L4m3r`	`well, lol... where are you?`
`01:02.01`	`donny_baker_`	`Indiana... but web development could happen anywhere for all I care`
`01:02.33`	`SeaSharp`	`Dad qwas like "NO WAY!"`
`01:02.34`	`SeaSharp`	`hehe`
`01:03.05`	`SeaSharp`	`wish we had another USB key so I could learn on that software at home`
`01:03.10`	`JeffM2501`	`what is his company's name?`
`01:03.16`	`SeaSharp`	`Buckley Steel`
`01:03.21`	`JeffM2501`	`just buy one`
`01:03.21`	`SeaSharp`	`Ainsworth, NE`
`01:03.43`	`SeaSharp`	`heh I am way too broke to buy another license of that ware`
`01:03.48`	`SeaSharp`	`it's rather pricey`
`01:03.56`	`JeffM2501`	`not really`
`01:04.01`	`JeffM2501`	`compared to others in the field`
`01:04.02`	`SeaSharp`	`We just had your training guy out here for a couple days`
`01:04.16`	`JeffM2501`	`that was probably from your reseller`
`01:04.21`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't realy send out training people`
`01:04.27`	`SeaSharp`	`I was going to take the class too, but unfortunately my wife had to work and I could not find a babysitter`
`01:04.36`	`SeaSharp`	`oh yeah, Midwest CAM Solutions`
`01:04.42`	`JeffM2501`	`10 days is a long time to be away`
`01:05.09`	`SeaSharp`	`small friggen world :)`
`01:05.44`	`SeaSharp`	`I think the main reason my dad got gibbscam was his last name, but it IS top of theline ware`
`01:06.07`	`SeaSharp`	`I applaud you and anyone who helped code that piece of wonder`
`01:08.51`	`*** part/#bzflag donny_baker_ (n=joevano@mse1.bowencenter.org)`
`01:09.16`	`JeffM2501`	`for the modules he got, we are prety cheap too`
`01:10.17`	`JeffM2501`	`how many servers we up too now?`
`01:10.22`	`JeffM2501`	`have we hit 1:1 ?`
`01:21.15`	`SeaSharp`	`wow`
`01:21.24`	`SeaSharp`	`quicktim sure had a nice thing to say about me`
`01:21.36`	`SeaSharp`	`accusing me of being a rip-off artist and crap`
`01:21.42`	`SeaSharp`	`he does not even know me`
`01:22.33`	`SeaSharp`	`I will be lucky to make this server even break even with bzflag. The only reason I offered bzflag hosting is it's about the only game I play.`
`01:28.13`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`Is there a 'benchmark' test for comparing different builds of BZflag?`
`01:28.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`PuMpErNiCkLe: no`
`01:28.42`	`A_Meteorite`	`but you can see FPS using the t button`
`01:28.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`(but that would be hard to average)`
`01:29.39`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`exactly`
`01:29.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`unless you want to write one, no :P`
`01:29.57`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`Maybe I'll set one up, somehow.`
`01:30.05`	`*** part/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at)`
`01:30.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`It wouldn't be hard to save the results into a file and then use a php app to average it`
`01:30.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`that would require modding bz though`
`01:31.27`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`I was thinking more of a 'scripted' set of events... users/shots/lag accounted for, so at any one point I could compare speed.`
`01:31.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`ah`
`01:37.32`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`woo - 27GB swapfile!`
`01:37.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`...`
`01:37.56`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`well, swap partition`
`01:37.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`get some more RAM, jeez :P`
`01:38.18`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`It was a spare, and 768MB ram just isn't enough for some optimization flags o_O`
`01:39.39`	`I_Died_Once`	`met, join us on the passion of the red vs blue CTF`
`01:40.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`playing America's Army... maybe in a bit`
`01:40.20`	`L4m3r`	`IDO/QT: you may consider yourselves PWNED`
`01:43.16`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`01:43.16`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`01:44.04`	`L4m3r`	`whoops wrong window, just realized that`
`01:45.35`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh another day another dolar`
`01:50.54`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/autogen.sh: woo hoo, CVS is back up`
`01:57.37`	`brlcad`	`if you have an existing checkout, you just need to use the -d option to specify a new root -- no need to edit the CVS/Root files (though that can be done with a one-liner too)`
`02:05.25`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`02:05.30`	`brlcad`	`menotume: the F5 thing isn't fixed for all situations, but it is for most -- thin walls can still be surpassed if the lag induced by a single screenshot would result in a distance that makes it through the thin wall (for slow machines, this can be substantial; for fast, this is paper-thin)`
`02:06.35`	`brlcad`	`the last "fix" for the problem involves some better collision detection that shoots a ray to make sure you didn't magically pass through anything at least directly in your path`
`02:48.19`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@c-69-136-41-111.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)`
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`04:36.47`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`gah`
`04:37.21`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`One of these days, I will get icc to work the way I want it to.`
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`04:59.04`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`And since there's only one minute left in this day, chances are it's not the one.`
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`14:03.11`	`zee743`	`where do i register for the pillbox league`
`14:16.53`	`Gnurdux`	`orange, if i fixed the client scorign thingy and made a patch, could you commit it to 2.0-branch?`
`14:18.14`	`blast007`	`client scoring thingy?`
`14:18.37`	`Gnurdux`	`clients dont listen to their own scores`
`14:18.39`	`Gnurdux`	`for things like /kill`
`14:18.54`	`trepan`	`can't be committed`
`14:18.55`	`blast007`	`right, and they never will in 2.0.x`
`14:18.56`	`Gnurdux`	`when server sends out scores clients ignore their own`
`14:18.59`	`Gnurdux`	`why not?`
`14:19.12`	`Gnurdux`	`will not lead to backwards-incompatibility`
`14:19.17`	`blast007`	`yes it will`
`14:19.30`	`blast007`	`people will see different scores depending on what client version they use`
`14:19.32`	`Gnurdux`	`and it can be done without changing protocol`
`14:19.43`	`Gnurdux`	`currently, they see different scores depending on who they are`
`14:19.47`	`Gnurdux`	`i think thats worse`
`14:20.07`	`Gnurdux`	`the only effect would be that people using the newer client would see their own score as what everyone else sees`
`14:20.07`	`blast007`	`is this so the API can change scores?`
`14:20.19`	`Gnurdux`	`well for API kill, not change scores`
`14:20.24`	`Gnurdux`	`but also for /kill`
`14:20.33`	`blast007`	`small issue then`
`14:20.35`	`Gnurdux`	`and also for when the server kills you for spawning too early`
`14:20.37`	`trepan`	`just wait for 2.1/2.2`
`14:20.44`	`blast007`	`and 2.1 already listens to their own score, iirc`
`14:20.55`	`Gnurdux`	`but it would not cause backwards incompatibility`
`14:21.20`	`trepan`	`2.0.x is in maintenance mode, bug fixes only`
`14:21.28`	`Gnurdux`	`trepan, that IS a bugfix`
`14:21.36`	`Gnurdux`	`its a BUG that you see a different score then me`
`14:21.42`	`trepan`	`na, it's been around so long it's a mode change`
`14:22.15`	`Gnurdux`	`if i get /killed you see me lose a point`
`14:22.17`	`Gnurdux`	`i don't`
`14:22.23`	`Gnurdux`	`so we now are not synced`
`14:22.25`	`trepan`	`does it cause the client to crash? no? fugedaboudit...`
`14:22.33`	`Gnurdux`	`:(`
`14:29.09`	`CBG`	`indeed.`
`14:29.56`	`Gnurdux`	`this is an FFA game tho: gnurdux.homelinux.net:5123\`
`14:30.13`	`ruskie`	`I'm talking in general :)`
`14:30.35`	`menotume`	`ruskie, yes, that should be a server optionb`
`14:33.40`	`trepan`	`replace them with captures and assists ;)`
`14:34.04`	`Gnurdux`	`assists?`
`14:34.14`	`Gnurdux`	`how would assists be defined?`
`14:34.20`	`ruskie`	`yeah that's the prob :)`
`14:34.21`	`Gnurdux`	`also what if someone TKs a player`
`14:34.26`	`Gnurdux`	`and steals their flag`
`14:34.29`	`Gnurdux`	`getting a capture`
`14:34.50`	`trepan`	`that would go into the negative captures category`
`14:34.52`	`ruskie`	`they would first have to GET to the flag :)`
`14:34.53`	`Gnurdux`	`you know there should be an option`
`14:35.04`	`Gnurdux`	`to lets bullets pass through teammates`
`14:35.07`	`ruskie`	`since TKing auto-kills you still :)`
`14:35.15`	`ruskie`	`that's spoils the fun`
`14:35.19`	`Gnurdux`	`how?`
`14:35.26`	`ruskie`	`and makes it to easy for lame-arse tkers to score`
`14:35.48`	`Gnurdux`	`making bullets pass through teammates means that #1 you cant maliciously do it`
`14:35.56`	`Gnurdux`	`and #2 a sucky player wont spoil everything`
`14:36.05`	`ruskie`	`#1 is the issue...`
`14:36.19`	`ruskie`	`you can still th a frienily`
`14:36.35`	`Gnurdux`	`disable that too`
`14:36.50`	`ruskie`	`I like it just the way it is...`
`14:36.53`	`CBG`	`a theif counts as a shot so by making shots pass through teamies, you could not theif a teammie`
`14:36.58`	`ruskie`	`other than the personal score issue`
`14:37.09`	`CBG`	`s/theif/thief /g`
`14:37.13`	`ruskie`	`whchi might not always be desirable`
`14:37.19`	`Gnurdux`	`and make it so that team flags are autodropped`
`14:37.24`	`Gnurdux`	`after some number of second`
`14:37.26`	`Gnurdux`	`s`
`14:37.30`	`CBG`	`o.O`
`14:37.31`	`ruskie`	`I saw some great TH captures...`
`14:37.39`	`CBG`	`So you can't return your flag to base? lol`
`14:37.42`	`Gnurdux`	`ooh those are fun`
`14:38.00`	`ruskie`	`guy is on base another was jumping up with an enemy sw behind`
`14:38.08`	`ruskie`	`he th'ed and inst-a-cap :)`
`14:38.37`	`CBG`	`:)`
`14:38.41`	`ruskie`	`but that requires teamwork...`
`14:38.50`	`ruskie`	`which sadly a lot of ppl give shit about...`
`14:39.02`	`ruskie`	`they're more interested in their personal score`
`14:39.02`	`CBG`	`heh, too true.`
`14:39.08`	`CBG`	`exactly.`
`14:39.12`	`ruskie`	`that's why I'd like to get rid of it...`
`14:39.46`	`Gnurdux`	`well if clients are now getting their scores from the server`
`14:40.08`	`Gnurdux`	`make server send caps - deaths or something`
`14:40.32`	`ruskie`	`then you'd be in negative MOST of the time`
`14:40.43`	`Gnurdux`	`caps - selfcaps`
`14:40.55`	`Gnurdux`	`caps - Tks`
`14:40.56`	`ruskie`	`I can't count the times I got killed trying to save the capper`
`14:41.16`	`Gnurdux`	`caps - (Tks + 4 * selfcaps)`
`14:41.21`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`14:42.28`	`Gnurdux`	`hows that`
`14:42.34`	`Gnurdux`	`ill make it as a patch for 2.1`
`14:44.56`	`ruskie`	`captures+(kills in vicinity of capper - deaths in vicinity of capper)`
`14:45.18`	`Gnurdux`	`remember wins and losses are sent seperately`
`14:45.26`	`Gnurdux`	`and deatrhs in vicinity of capper dont hurt the team`
`14:45.37`	`Gnurdux`	`Wins = caps + kills near capper`
`14:45.43`	`ruskie`	`s/-/+/`
`14:45.51`	`Gnurdux`	`Losses = Tks + 8 * selfcaps`
`14:46.04`	`ruskie`	`don't overdoo the losses :)`
`14:46.19`	`Gnurdux`	`overdo?`
`14:46.22`	`ruskie`	`tks only`
`14:46.34`	`Gnurdux`	`selfcaps should be losses`
`14:46.37`	`ruskie`	`BUT add selfcap as a 1 tk*team`
`14:46.39`	`Gnurdux`	`that means I take my flag to enemy base`
`14:47.00`	`trepan`	`ruskie: not thta i'm advocating it: 1. teammates still end shots 2. TH works on teammates 3. no self captures (flag just returns to base)`
`14:47.02`	`ruskie`	`so basicaly tk's would equel team number`
`14:47.03`	`Gnurdux`	`nah just * 8`
`14:47.35`	`ruskie`	`Gnurdux, you ass-ume there's always 8 ppl playing on the team :)`
`14:47.51`	`Gnurdux`	`no`
`14:47.55`	`Gnurdux`	`8 is just a good number`
`14:48.02`	`ruskie`	`not really...`
`14:48.16`	`Gnurdux`	`fine`
`14:48.20`	`Gnurdux`	`no`
`14:48.28`	`Gnurdux`	`but captures are treated differently then kills`
`14:48.39`	`ruskie`	`Tks+selfcaps+tks*team_number_on_selfcap`
`14:49.26`	`Gnurdux`	`so selfcaps are counted twice`
`14:49.34`	`Gnurdux`	`once as a TK`
`14:49.41`	`Gnurdux`	`and once for each player that got killed`
`14:49.47`	`ruskie`	`well a setfcap would just be -caps`
`14:50.03`	`Gnurdux`	`i htink 1 self-cap = 8 tks`
`14:50.07`	`Gnurdux`	`also for TK scoring`
`14:50.24`	`ruskie`	`but anyway I don't even want a SINGLE bit of personal SCORE`
`14:50.32`	`Gnurdux`	`no wins and losses individually only go up`
`14:50.36`	`ruskie`	`ONLY a TEAM SCORE`
`14:50.54`	`ruskie`	`ctf is a TEAM game...`
`14:51.01`	`Gnurdux`	`sos FFA`
`14:51.08`	`ruskie`	`not really...`
`14:51.14`	`ruskie`	`FFA == Free For All`
`14:51.38`	`Gnurdux`	`TK should be disabled on CTF`
`14:51.42`	`ruskie`	`NO`
`14:51.48`	`Gnurdux`	`why not?`
`14:51.52`	`ruskie`	`it spoils the game`
`14:51.54`	`Gnurdux`	`team-thief shouldnt`
`14:51.59`	`blast007`	`...`
`14:52.46`	`blast007`	`if there are no TKs, it just turns into a "spray the bullets" kind of game`
`14:52.51`	`ruskie`	`anyway I'll stop now as I see you don't really want anything like that... you want to modify the game NOT the display what I want... :)`
`14:53.00`	`blast007`	`and theif can be used as a strategy`
`14:53.27`	`ruskie`	`I think I've killed more ppl when using th than not :)`
`14:54.04`	`ruskie`	`ppl just randomly try hitting me while I dodge...`
`14:54.10`	`ruskie`	`and in the process manage to kill eachotehr :)`
`14:54.27`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`15:03.56`	`Gnurdux`	`CBG, should I make ultrageno send a message to the genoer/`
`15:04.37`	`Gnurdux`	`saying your geno has been dropped`
`15:05.26`	`CBG`	`bleh`
`15:05.32`	`CBG`	`does it matter?`
`15:05.56`	`Gnurdux`	`not really`
`15:34.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org)`
`15:38.27`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`15:38.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`15:42.08`	`Gnurdux`	`JeffM2501, can the score fix go into 2.0.8?`
`15:42.20`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`15:42.24`	`Gnurdux`	`why not?`
`15:42.35`	`JeffM2501`	`cus old clients won't have it`
`15:43.02`	`Gnurdux`	`but... the problem is clients not being synced anyway. ie my client sees a different score than yours`
`15:43.20`	`JeffM2501`	`so the fix dosn't fix anything`
`15:43.23`	`Gnurdux`	`so this will make SOME people see the correct score for themself. but other people see it for them anyway so its better than not`
`15:43.26`	`JeffM2501`	`since some clients wll still be out of sync`
`15:43.39`	`Gnurdux`	`but some will be in sync, and thats better than none`
`15:43.40`	`JeffM2501`	`it's been like this for over a year`
`15:43.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and you are the first to mention it`
`15:43.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it isn't that important`
`15:44.15`	`Gnurdux`	`im currently running a server where its very important`
`15:44.30`	`Gnurdux`	`where genocide kills everyone`
`15:44.36`	`JeffM2501`	`then fix your server`
`15:44.45`	`JeffM2501`	`or your client or whatever`
`15:44.53`	`JeffM2501`	`again, in a year, you are the one person`
`15:45.01`	`JeffM2501`	`out of 200+ servers`
`15:45.06`	`JeffM2501`	`1/2 a percent`
`15:45.27`	`Gnurdux`	`and on the rest it does no harm`
`15:45.45`	`Gnurdux`	`but can sometimes do good when people rejoin early`
`15:45.54`	`JeffM2501`	`Gnurdux, I'm very sick of telling you this. We have to draw a line somewhere`
`15:46.19`	`Gnurdux`	`even for bugfixes?`
`15:46.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what makes your small problem more important then the 100's of other bugs we arn't fixing in this release?`
`15:46.35`	`JeffM2501`	`Gnurdux, yes, if it's been a bug for a while, and noone hits it.... yes.`
`15:46.41`	`Gnurdux`	`because its known, its easy to fix, and doesn't require a protocol fix`
`15:46.46`	`Gnurdux`	`protocol change`
`15:46.53`	`JeffM2501`	`not all bugs need the change`
`15:47.00`	`Gnurdux`	`but its a simple fix`
`15:47.04`	`JeffM2501`	`just accept the NO`
`15:48.15`	`JeffM2501`	`mostly I don't want to do another testing cycle`
`15:48.20`	`JeffM2501`	`for a small thing just for your server`
`15:48.35`	`JeffM2501`	`specialy given your attitude tward it all`
`15:56.56`	`Mr_Molez`	`~bzcvs`
`15:56.58`	`ibot`	`cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag`
`15:59.34`	`gsnedders`	`ergh. all the message sounds have gone as well :\`
`16:00.39`	`*** part/#bzflag romfis (n=romfis@62.178.107.24)`
`16:08.05`	`*** join/#bzflag a-delusion (n=a-delusi@pool-151-201-219-92.pitt.east.verizon.net)`
`16:12.32`	`JeffM2501`	`in 2.0.7?`
`16:13.09`	`gsnedders`	`yeah`
`16:14.43`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll take a look`
`16:14.54`	`JeffM2501`	`nothing was done to them IIRC`
`16:31.47`	`JeffM2501`	`how do you change the chat recipient for a direct message?`
`16:32.06`	`menotume`	`<-- ->>`
`16:32.28`	`menotume`	`left/right arrow`
`16:32.49`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm can't send to yourself :)`
`16:32.55`	`menotume`	`err, no :P`
`16:32.58`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone want to help me test?`
`16:33.09`	`menotume`	`sure`
`16:33.09`	`JeffM2501`	`admin channel sounds work`
`16:33.13`	`JeffM2501`	`where?`
`16:33.17`	`menotume`	`oh, i can't - no sound`
`16:33.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I just need you to send`
`16:33.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I can test sound`
`16:33.29`	`menotume`	`ok, one sec`
`16:34.00`	`menotume`	`nzflag.no-ip.com:5156`
`16:34.05`	`menotume`	`bzflag.no-ip.com:5156`
`16:35.31`	`JeffM2501`	`msg sounds seem to work`
`16:35.42`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah worked fine`
`16:35.44`	`JeffM2501`	`both of em`
`16:35.45`	`JeffM2501`	`thanks`
`16:36.00`	`menotume`	`okies`
`16:36.14`	`giggsey`	`~bzfquery 63.246.145.90:5154`
`16:36.21`	`giggsey`	`good`
`16:37.35`	`JeffM2501`	`gsnedders, as far as I can see the sounds work fine`
`16:38.05`	`gsnedders`	`mmm¬`
`16:38.11`	`gsnedders`	`I'll do more testing`
`16:38.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what code are you using?`
`16:38.28`	`gsnedders`	`but none of the settings should affect it`
`16:44.51`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: last of the change log for 2.0.8`
`16:44.56`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, need a name for 2.0.8`
`16:45.45`	`trepan`	`oops`
`16:45.54`	`JeffM2501`	`good enough ;)`
`16:46.31`	`JeffM2501`	`"oops baby" ;)`
`16:47.02`	`trepan`	`now you're just complicating it ;)`
`16:48.46`	`JeffM2501`	`fine fine`
`16:54.29`	`giggsey`	`"Determination will succedd"`
`16:54.45`	`JeffM2501`	`oops is easyer to type`
`16:55.12`	`giggsey`	`lol`
`16:55.16`	`giggsey`	`and easier to spell ;)`
`16:55.22`	`JeffM2501`	`and it is the release that should not be`
`16:56.31`	`JeffM2501`	`it'll be named and taged as soon as the distcheck finishes`
`16:59.13`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): version bumps and names for 2_0_8 tag`
`17:00.39`	`*** topic/#bzflag by JeffM2501 -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca \|\| CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits \|\| 2.0.8 to be released prety much starting now \|\| Schedule List Server Downtime: 5-15-2006 @ 4:00PM (brief) \|\| cvs is cvs.bzflag.org, and is anon synced`
`17:01.17`	`*** topic/#bzflag by JeffM2501 -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca \|\| CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits \|\| 2.0.8 to be released prety much starting now \|\| Schedule List Server Downtime: 5-15-2006 @ 4:00PM (brief)`
`17:07.41`	`*** join/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at)`
`17:11.31`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=_jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`17:11.31`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v _Manu_] by ChanServ`
`17:14.37`	`*** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`17:18.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue-Eyes (n=Blue@host157-224.pool870.interbusiness.it)`
`17:29.47`	`JeffM2501`	`ahhh the long wait of "make dist"`
`17:32.19`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
`17:32.33`	`JeffM2501`	`wtf... "clock skew detected. your build may be incomplete"`
`17:34.23`	`trepan`	`ouch :)`
`17:34.27`	`JeffM2501`	`what's that mean?`
`17:34.35`	`JeffM2501`	`that's after I did a cvs export`
`17:34.45`	`JeffM2501`	`from the v2_0_8 tag`
`17:34.57`	`JeffM2501`	`a distcheck on the branch before the tag was fine`
`17:35.16`	`JeffM2501`	`windows export of the tag builds fine`
`17:35.16`	`brad`	`~bzcvs`
`17:35.18`	`ibot`	`cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag`
`17:46.48`	`Birdie`	`guu guu where are you`
`17:46.53`	`JeffM2501`	`gon`
`17:46.55`	`JeffM2501`	`gone`
`17:47.01`	`Birdie`	`aw, and not coming back?`
`17:47.06`	`JeffM2501`	`if I get time`
`17:47.09`	`JeffM2501`	`she can come back now`
`17:47.15`	`JeffM2501`	`but she has lost her memory`
`17:47.21`	`Birdie`	`oi`
`17:47.24`	`Birdie`	`she crashed?`
`17:47.28`	`JeffM2501`	`she moved`
`17:47.31`	`JeffM2501`	`to a new machine`
`17:47.41`	`JeffM2501`	`new machine dosn't have the same old version of supybot`
`17:47.48`	`JeffM2501`	`new version of supybot won't read old data files`
`17:47.54`	`JeffM2501`	`so I have to manualy move em`
`17:47.54`	`Birdie`	`that sux`
`17:48.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it's kinda my fault for running her on a beta versions of supy`
`17:49.23`	`JeffM2501`	`if you want to move her data over your more then welcome too :)`
`17:49.37`	`brlcad`	`"for mom"?`
`17:49.55`	`Birdie`	`ahem, i dont have that skill to do:)`
`17:50.04`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, I named it "oops"`
`17:50.35`	`brlcad`	`that works, though it was more of an "ahh f*ck!"`
`17:50.46`	`JeffM2501`	`"son of a........"`
`17:50.57`	`JeffM2501`	`combines both that and mums day ;)`
`17:51.28`	`trepan`	`ahh, muthaf*cker; ditto`
`17:52.01`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B027E4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`17:52.16`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`17:52.58`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, we are taged and ready for upload`
`17:53.32`	`brlcad`	`i know, i'm updating to it and compiling`
`17:53.47`	`brlcad`	`hoping your doing the release steps so all the stuff is updated :)`
`17:53.50`	`JeffM2501`	`I am`
`17:53.54`	`JeffM2501`	`following the doc`
`17:54.01`	`brlcad`	`coo`
`17:54.06`	`JeffM2501`	`I am just before the bump to .9`
`17:54.35`	`JeffM2501`	`even updated the changelog`
`17:54.44`	`JeffM2501`	`but I'll wait for you to double check before I upload`
`17:55.20`	`JeffM2501`	`and I have to find shudder IE. :(`
`17:57.33`	`JeffM2501`	`well I'll start the upload cus it'll take a while`
`17:58.34`	`brlcad`	`another one-liner for folks updating repositories: find . -name Root -exec perl -pi -e 's/cvs.sf.net/bzflag.cvs.sf.net/g' {} \;`
`17:58.45`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, you adverse to making a section on SF for debian packages? like i386 and AMD64, so people don't have to dig thru "testing" and "unstable" repos to get the current versions ( in adition to the tim stuff )`
`18:00.40`	`JeffM2501`	`Birdie, hey I don't have the knowledge ether ;)`
`18:01.59`	`brlcad`	`hmm`
`18:02.39`	`JeffM2501`	`good hmm or bad hmm?`
`18:02.47`	`brlcad`	`just thinking`
`18:03.03`	`menotume`	`perl !`
`18:03.04`	`menotume`	`puh`
`18:03.23`	`menotume`	`only good if you used sf.net before, use mine !`
`18:03.25`	`brlcad`	`menotume: sed will do the trick too, but perl will do the edit in-place`
`18:03.32`	`menotume`	`so does sed`
`18:03.37`	`brlcad`	`only certain versions`
`18:04.11`	`menotume`	`ok, fix your rexeg to work with any old host name, and so that it's safe to run more than once :)`
`18:04.35`	`brlcad`	`that's left up as an exercise for the reader, it's a simple one-shot :)`
`18:04.48`	`menotume`	`pfff :P`
`18:07.14`	`JeffM2501`	`sonofa..`
`18:07.17`	`JeffM2501`	`I missed one thing`
`18:07.46`	`brlcad`	menotume: if you want robust... something like.. for file in `find . -name Root -print` ; do echo "username@bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag" > $file ; done ;)
`18:07.48`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, I have to comit the changelog`
`18:07.53`	`JeffM2501`	`you want to rename it?`
`18:07.57`	`JeffM2501`	`speak now or...`
`18:08.02`	`brlcad`	`rename?`
`18:08.10`	`JeffM2501`	`instead of "opps"`
`18:08.12`	`menotume`	`i was thing that :)`
`18:08.24`	`JeffM2501`	`or oops or whatever`
`18:08.25`	`menotume`	`but, then they have to enter their username :)`
`18:08.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I left in the "no new commits" part`
`18:08.51`	`brlcad`	`i'm not heavily invested in a name for this one`
`18:09.00`	`brlcad`	`I made the biggest oops that had to get fixed`
`18:09.07`	`JeffM2501`	`is it "oops" or "opps" ?`
`18:09.17`	`brlcad`	`oops`
`18:09.20`	`menotume`	`"Mother's Day"`
`18:09.36`	`JeffM2501`	`"oops.. Happy Mother's Day"`
`18:09.39`	`brlcad`	`"oops, Mother's Day"?`
`18:09.40`	`menotume`	`hehe`
`18:09.41`	`Birdie`	`thats a big ops:(, i dont have a present`
`18:09.41`	`JeffM2501`	`tho that isn't till tomorow`
`18:09.43`	`JeffM2501`	`damn again`
`18:09.57`	`menotume`	`"April Fool's, late"`
`18:10.01`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`18:10.20`	`brlcad`	`"haha April Fools.. oops, I mean.. Happy Mother's Day"`
`18:10.49`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: stupid freaking no commit message....`
`18:11.19`	`JeffM2501`	`tag moved`
`18:16.09`	`brlcad`	`compiling`
`18:22.27`	`menotume`	`wait. you're doing a release ?`
`18:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`18:22.34`	`menotume`	`i need to get an API function intobzfs`
`18:22.41`	`JeffM2501`	`ummm too late`
`18:22.42`	`menotume`	`for a plugin`
`18:22.44`	`menotume`	`:P`
`18:22.48`	`menotume`	`muwhawaha`
`18:22.55`	`JeffM2501`	`is your name gnardux?`
`18:23.00`	`menotume`	`gnope`
`18:23.04`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`18:23.10`	`menotume`	`hehe`
`18:27.02`	`brlcad`	`the only 'fix' i would have considered waiting for would have been the thin wall cheat fix or client-side acceleration but neither without testing`
`18:27.40`	`JeffM2501`	`if the people want to cheat like that they'd just go back to an old verison`
`18:28.07`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`18:28.51`	`brlcad`	`though most seem to be honest, they'll play within the bounds we give them even if it smells like cheating (like ME problems)`
`18:29.21`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:29.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I guess`
`18:29.37`	`brlcad`	`if we put out a client-side-only fix that prevented ME, I would bet the players would mostly use it (after heavy complaining`
`18:29.41`	`JeffM2501`	`hiting F5 a lot is a bit more active in the cheat then seting your mouse realy fast`
`18:29.50`	`JeffM2501`	`cus you can say that you like a fast mouse`
`18:29.57`	`brlcad`	`hitting F5 'a lot' is already prevented`
`18:30.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh ok`
`18:30.14`	`Birdie`	`what did F5 do?`
`18:30.17`	`brlcad`	`now it's basically.. how much lag does a single F5 inject`
`18:30.20`	`JeffM2501`	`cause a lag spike`
`18:30.24`	`JeffM2501`	`and send you thru a wall`
`18:30.31`	`ToughShooter`	`F5 should show the pause state to all players..`
`18:30.51`	`ToughShooter`	`No lag spike on fast machines except they trigger F5 a lot`
`18:31.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a lag spike over the normal frame time`
`18:31.13`	`brlcad`	`so if you're on a relatively slow computer and a single F5 is .5 seconds.. it might let you through a wall that is that distance minus tank radius`
`18:31.38`	`JeffM2501`	`should just break the colision check up into small chunks`
`18:31.43`	`brlcad`	`if you're on a really fast machine, we're talking really paper thin at best`
`18:31.58`	`brlcad`	`it does/did already`
`18:32.08`	`ToughShooter`	`Paper thin are the walls in HIX`
`18:32.12`	`brlcad`	`it's just the distance was too big, doesn't check enough`
`18:32.30`	`brlcad`	`that's also better now iirc`
`18:32.44`	`brlcad`	`but it's still not full-proof`
`18:32.58`	`JeffM2501`	`ok everything is ready if your build checks out`
`18:33.10`	`brlcad`	`you'd have to shoot a ray or something else to ensure there was really nothing in your path`
`18:33.24`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what some games do :)`
`18:33.54`	`brlcad`	`yeah, it's easy enough to add if your ray testing is fast enough`
`18:34.10`	`brlcad`	`never checked how fast bz's ray testing is.. I have my doubts`
`18:34.11`	`JeffM2501`	`or you don't care about that guy with a PII ;)`
`18:34.47`	`gsnedders`	`BZFlag-2.0.8.20060513 :)`
`18:34.59`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`18:35.52`	`brlcad`	`we've always been faster at geometric querying than every other vendor out there`
`18:36.03`	`brlcad`	`usually by an order of magnitude or better in most cases`
`18:36.29`	`brlcad`	`the modeler just sucks :)`
`18:38.16`	`brlcad`	`primitive-based ray library does on the order of about how many 100k rays per second on most modern hardware, triangle-only ray library is on the order of how many million per sec`
`18:40.32`	`trepan`	`the geo octree is more then fast enough for bz current reqs`
`18:40.56`	`trepan`	`(if you wanted ray testing per frame)`
`18:41.09`	`trepan`	`but the physics really needs to be redone, or use a lib ;)`
`18:41.25`	`JeffM2501`	`octree would get you down to the few faces you'd have to test`
`18:41.32`	`JeffM2501`	`since the rays are not THAT big`
`18:41.44`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: that's what it does`
`18:42.11`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`18:42.18`	`trepan`	`also depends on how the _coldetXXX vars are setup, the coldet grid viewer gives you a better idea`
`18:44.54`	`brlcad`	`coldet only handles triangles i believe, right?`
`18:45.18`	`trepan`	`and polys, and boxes, and pyrs`
`18:45.40`	`JeffM2501`	`how do we delete MOTDs?`
`18:46.01`	`trepan`	`and meshes (badly)`
`18:46.03`	`brlcad`	`trepan: is that a lib or something you put together? I thought I recalled a 'coldet' lib that was triangle/poly only`
`18:46.16`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a lib called that`
`18:46.21`	`JeffM2501`	`he's talking about the bz code,`
`18:46.28`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't use a lib`
`18:46.28`	`trepan`	`that's the bz stuff; the coldet lib is tri-soup based`
`18:47.14`	`brlcad`	`ah, k.. just named the same to confuse the youngens and myself :)`
`18:47.38`	`trepan`	`their bzdb var names`
`18:47.46`	`trepan`	`s/their/they're`
`18:48.00`	`brlcad`	`ive seen the logging on bzfs debug startup as well`
`18:48.17`	`brlcad`	`just never bothered to see if it was the lib or not`
`18:57.17`	`JeffM2501`	`what's wrong wit it?`
`18:57.20`	`JeffM2501`	`it worked for me`
`18:57.31`	`JeffM2501`	`and there is no "before"`
`18:57.35`	`JeffM2501`	`cus it is now`
`18:58.31`	`Birdie`	`toughshooter: just remove the sound, or add another sound for it, like I did, if you think its to annoying:)`
`18:58.32`	`ToughShooter`	`Well, the only problem I have with it, that I can hardly hear it..first I thought the sound was gone`
`18:59.04`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's not realy something to "fix", it's a personal thing :)`
`18:59.41`	`gsnedders`	`you can't hear the admin sounds on any good speakers :\`
`18:59.46`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, build work?`
`18:59.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I can hear it`
`19:00.05`	`gsnedders`	`I can't.`
`19:00.20`	`JeffM2501`	`then you can replace it with another sound you like better`
`19:00.29`	`gsnedders`	`why change it from what it was before?`
`19:00.41`	`ToughShooter`	`I payed more than 150€ for my speakers and it can hardly be recocnized`
`19:00.42`	`*** join/#bzflag Alex135 (n=Alex135@198.109.230.111)`
`19:00.45`	`JeffM2501`	`cus some people didn't like it and said it was anoying`
`19:00.58`	`ToughShooter`	`Yes, it was annoying, but better than now`
`19:01.00`	`gsnedders`	`well some people don't like this one and can't hear it.`
`19:01.04`	`JeffM2501`	`you are more then welcome to go back to the old one`
`19:01.10`	`JeffM2501`	`or you could have submited a new one`
`19:01.25`	`JeffM2501`	`but bitching about it when we are trying to actualy DO the release.....`
`19:01.27`	`gsnedders`	`my attempts at audio work would've been worse than the previous one`
`19:01.28`	`Birdie`	`or you just add a sound yourself which you like the best:)`
`19:01.30`	`ToughShooter`	`I mean the shot sound takes more attention than the admin sound`
`19:02.00`	`JeffM2501`	`then copy the shot sound :)`
`19:02.11`	`JeffM2501`	`people didn't like the old one. it was changed`
`19:02.14`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't like the new one`
`19:02.17`	`JeffM2501`	`can't please everyone`
`19:02.25`	`gsnedders`	`it's not we don't like it.`
`19:02.28`	`gsnedders`	`it's we can't hear it.`
`19:02.41`	`ToughShooter`	`To be honest, the new sound is like no sound`
`19:02.41`	`JeffM2501`	`then open the wave up and increase the volume`
`19:03.01`	`JeffM2501`	`2.0.8 is like done and taged`
`19:03.21`	`Alex135`	`its done? for windows ?`
`19:03.25`	`*** join/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at)`
`19:03.28`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`19:03.36`	`JeffM2501`	`waiting on confirmation that it builds ok on the mac`
`19:03.39`	`brlcad`	`gsnedders: the admin sound before was rather _very_ annoying`
`19:03.44`	`gsnedders`	`JeffM2501: having to change a sound JUST TO HEAR IT is stupid.`
`19:03.54`	`Alex135`	`but on cvs it is ok and works?`
`19:03.55`	`gsnedders`	`JeffM2501: it builds fine on OS X`
`19:04.00`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: build worked on bsd, still compiling on 10.2`
`19:04.02`	`gsnedders`	`or rather latest anon CVS`
`19:04.22`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, think it's cool finish the ones that are done?`
`19:04.31`	`ToughShooter`	`JeffM2501: It builds ok on my Mac (but anon CVS)`
`19:04.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it's brlcad that makes the bins, so he's got final word on it`
`19:05.05`	`JeffM2501`	`the admin sound has been changed for weeks now`
`19:05.17`	`gsnedders`	`JeffM2501: anon CVS has been down for weeks`
`19:05.19`	`JeffM2501`	`there was even tarballs and builds made and posted`
`19:05.25`	`JeffM2501`	`because CVS was done`
`19:05.27`	`JeffM2501`	`down`
`19:05.27`	`brlcad`	`what's the concern with it? too soft or absolutely cannot hear it at all?`
`19:05.38`	`gsnedders`	`absolutely cannot hear it.`
`19:05.43`	`Alex135`	`you just released the 2.0.7b2 not to long ago... and you already have a new version? i think you should make the installer update over the old version or have just update packages... instead of installing a whole new folder and everything and also release the install package`
`19:05.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I heard it when I tested it`
`19:05.53`	`JeffM2501`	`Alex135, no`
`19:06.00`	`ToughShooter`	`First moment, I thought that sound is gone`
`19:06.07`	`JeffM2501`	`Alex135, we make the folder have the version name in it`
`19:06.09`	`brlcad`	`i can't think why it wouldn't play for you`
`19:06.23`	`brlcad`	`can you play the audio file?`
`19:06.30`	`gsnedders`	`having opened up the file itself in QT, it's very quiet`
`19:06.36`	`ToughShooter`	`It does play, as I can hear it on a empty server`
`19:06.40`	`brlcad`	`it's supposed to be quiet`
`19:06.50`	`gsnedders`	`I can't hear it at all, though.`
`19:07.01`	`brlcad`	`did data/hunter_*.png go away on purpose?`
`19:07.03`	`Alex135`	`JeffM2501, ok... also i noticed that the web client for IRC is down... i just wonderd if it was known and if someone could tell me why`
`19:07.20`	`brlcad`	`Alex135: it tells you why`
`19:07.22`	`JeffM2501`	`Alex135, cus we decided to shut it down`
`19:07.28`	`JeffM2501`	`use a real client`
`19:07.49`	`Birdie`	`webchat is somethimes cool when your not at home though`
`19:08.03`	`Alex135`	`hmmm... it didn't tell me why before... anyway... ok... my isp blocks IRC... for resons i dont know... and so... i need to bypass my isp to to get into this client`
`19:08.05`	`brlcad`	`it's not at all cool when someone can root your box with it`
`19:09.19`	`brlcad`	`http://secunia.com/advisories/19922`
`19:09.32`	`Alex135`	`anyway... the reson why i came here was ... i am having some problems with seting up a replay server... and i dont know all the things that are required in the conf for the bzflag server to work...`
`19:09.35`	`brlcad`	`looks like someone edited the message that said why`
`19:09.53`	`brlcad`	`it's just a "." now with that link, used to say there was a security vulnerability`
`19:10.28`	`brlcad`	`it's down until our cgi:irc is upgraded`
`19:10.28`	`Alex135`	`ok... thx`
`19:11.05`	`Alex135`	`anyway about the replay server... i have problems with geting it to work.. i dont know what all is required in the conf besides -replay and when i tryed to join the replay server i have hosted... it just makes my client freez`
`19:12.49`	`brlcad`	`ahh, the message at http://my.bzflag.org/irc/ was a typo, fixed`
`19:13.31`	`Alex135`	`"Sorry, web-based IRC access has been temporarily disabled due to a ."`
`19:13.37`	`brlcad`	`refresh`
`19:13.48`	`Alex135`	`ahh thats better...`
`19:13.54`	`Alex135`	`thx`
`19:15.01`	`Alex135`	`so... about the replay stuff... anybody know how to help me with that?`
`19:16.21`	`romfis`	`YAY, Jeff!`
`19:18.35`	`romfis`	`Happy Mother's Day" -- i am Happy :P lol`
`19:20.33`	`gsnedders`	`JeffM2501: well, /usr/local/bin/bzflag for me :P`
`19:20.43`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie_ (n=ruskie@84.20.228.4)`
`19:20.58`	`JeffM2501`	`you install it nix style`
`19:21.00`	`brlcad`	`romfis is a mother? :)`
`19:21.01`	`JeffM2501`	`wierd`
`19:21.43`	`romfis`	`lol`
`19:21.47`	`JeffM2501`	`dude, just ditch 10.2`
`19:22.05`	`brlcad`	`this can be the last`
`19:22.43`	`JeffM2501`	`your sad devotion to the ancient ways, has not given you clarvoyance to find the rebel base, or conjoured up the stolen data tapes!`
`19:24.54`	`gsnedders`	`nowadays I'd just go for 10.3.9 and above`
`19:25.10`	`gsnedders`	`gcc 4 compiles far faster binaries on PPC`
`19:25.11`	`JeffM2501`	`2.2 will be that`
`19:25.25`	`brlcad`	`gsnedders: easy for you to say that as you're not on 10.2 :)`
`19:25.29`	`gsnedders`	`:)`
`19:25.37`	`brlcad`	`the kiddies still cry in too large of numbers`
`19:25.47`	`brlcad`	`by 2.2, it won't matter`
`19:25.54`	`gsnedders`	`brlcad: I'm the guy who complains when things break at the bleeding edge :)\|`
`19:25.54`	`brlcad`	`current head doesn't compile on 10.2`
`19:26.14`	`JeffM2501`	`whoot`
`19:26.18`	`brlcad`	`for that matter neither does the 2_0_8 branch :)`
`19:26.27`	`brlcad`	`but that one is easily fixable`
`19:26.32`	`brlcad`	`(hopefully)..`
`19:26.38`	`JeffM2501`	`double whoot`
`19:26.58`	`brlcad`	`i ran into this same compile error last time, just can't remember what I did`
`19:27.57`	`blast007`	`rain dance?`
`19:28.04`	`blast007`	`:)`
`19:28.43`	`brlcad`	`i think it was a blood sacrifice`
`19:28.56`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`19:34.56`	`*** part/#bzflag Alex135 (n=Alex135@198.109.230.111)`
`19:41.08`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, will you have to commit anything to fix your build?`
`19:41.45`	`brlcad`	`nah, it's all 10.2 cruft`
`19:41.58`	`brlcad`	`not a problem on our end`
`19:42.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`19:42.08`	`JeffM2501`	`so I can bump cvs to .9`
`19:42.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and be done with the list :)`
`19:43.35`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ (ChangeLog README src/date/buildDate.cxx): bump cvs branch to .9`
`19:45.22`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: aditional notes to NOT commit stuff to branch`
`19:45.27`	`*** topic/#bzflag by JeffM2501 -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca \|\| CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits \|\| 2.0.8 is released react acordingly \|\| Schedule List Server Downtime: 5-15-2006 @ 4:00PM (brief)`
`19:46.33`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauv21.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`20:05.51`	`brlcad`	`10.2 feels incredibly slower in comparison to 10.4.. yeesh`
`20:09.03`	`ToughShooter`	`It is, think about all the changes in graphics system alone ;)`
`20:09.20`	`*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@s122-222.resnet.ucla.edu)`
`20:12.35`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
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`21:01.24`	`amcnabb`	`I just posted patch 1488088 to Sourceforge. It doesn't actually change any functionality--it just cleans up playing.cxx a little.`
`21:01.40`	`amcnabb`	`How does it look?`
`21:02.21`	`*** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-137-216.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)`
`21:02.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`Question... how much video (in seconds?) can you get per megabyte with -recbuf ?`
`21:02.59`	`blast007`	`amcnabb: no file attached (make sure to put a check in the box by the upload box)`
`21:03.26`	`amcnabb`	`oops`
`21:03.39`	`Birdie`	`better enable that by default:)`
`21:03.41`	`A_Meteorite`	`And will it go over that many megabytes? Or is that how much RAM it allocates or what?`
`21:03.45`	`blast007`	`A_Meteorite: that would vary depending on how many players are on the server, the number of shots, flag, etc`
`21:04.17`	`amcnabb`	`blast007, it's up now.`
`21:04.19`	`amcnabb`	`thanks`
`21:04.21`	`blast007`	`amcnabb: k`
`21:04.33`	`A_Meteorite`	`blast007: maybe an estimate?`
`21:05.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`or see my second question: "And will it go over that many megabytes? Or is that"`
`21:05.12`	`A_Meteorite`	`Or is that how much RAM it allocates or what?`
`21:05.48`	`brlcad`	`Birdie: they specifically don't so that people have to pay attention when they upload stuff :)`
`21:07.16`	`blast007`	`A_Meteorite: not sure on the MB value`
`21:07.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok`
`21:07.34`	`ToughShooter`	`Hmm, the readme doesn't show sf's new cvs host`
`21:07.46`	`brlcad`	`amcnabb: a clean up of what sort?`
`21:07.53`	`blast007`	`ToughShooter: does it show cvs.bzflag.org ?`
`21:07.56`	`brlcad`	`whitespace? or something else?`
`21:08.18`	`blast007`	`brlcad: seperating code into another file`
`21:08.29`	`amcnabb`	`playing.cxx is _really_ huge.`
`21:08.39`	`brlcad`	`that it is`
`21:08.49`	`brlcad`	`it is one of about 10 that were/are massive`
`21:09.10`	`brlcad`	`i broke up about half of them, playing is/was slightly more complicated due to globals`
`21:09.20`	`ToughShooter`	`blast007: http://pastebin.com/715899`
`21:09.33`	`brlcad`	`actually I suppose only three left are really big, playing, bzflag, and bzfs`
`21:09.35`	`ToughShooter`	`That is what I got in v2_0branch`
`21:09.37`	`amcnabb`	`I moved out rendering stuff--it has very little overlap with the rest of playing`
`21:09.49`	`blast007`	`ToughShooter: ick..`
`21:09.58`	`brlcad`	`amcnabb: using head I hope?`
`21:10.07`	`brlcad`	`not useful for the branch at this point`
`21:10.11`	`amcnabb`	`The closest I have to it.`
`21:10.25`	`amcnabb`	`As far as I know, anonymous CVS is still broken.`
`21:10.33`	`ToughShooter`	`blast007: Umm, what do you mean with "ick"? English is not my native language so I have a little understanding problem. :(`
`21:10.47`	`blast007`	`ToughShooter: I mean, that's not good ;)`
`21:11.01`	`ToughShooter`	`Can we have a 2.0.10 then? >:)`
`21:11.05`	`blast007`	`lol`
`21:11.54`	`brlcad`	`ick => icky => yucky => nasty => bad`
`21:11.59`	`ToughShooter`	`Saw it when I tried to create some dylibs and forgot howto so I checked the readme`
`21:12.01`	`brlcad`	`aka "not good"`
`21:12.57`	`brlcad`	`ToughShooter: all I see are three lines`
`21:13.26`	`amcnabb`	`brlcad, I think the code the patch is against is one day old.`
`21:13.46`	`amcnabb`	`Hopefully there aren't too many differences there. :)`
`21:14.45`	`brlcad`	`hopefully`
`21:14.52`	`blast007`	`the old CVS is listed in the README file`
`21:14.59`	`brlcad`	`i'll take a look at it after release if you'll remind me tomorrow`
`21:15.30`	`amcnabb`	`ok`
`21:17.01`	`amcnabb`	`well, I'd better run for now. Ciao.`
`21:18.02`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/README: bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net is the new name`
`21:19.18`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/README: yes, ma'am. pushing down to 2.0.8 so v2_0_8 tag can be moved to here.`
`21:19.32`	`orchid`	`:)`
`21:21.46`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/README: tagged, bump back up to 2.0.9`
`21:22.47`	`ToughShooter`	`Plugins don't seem to work, I get undefinded symbol _bzSignal`
`21:23.21`	`ToughShooter`	`While building bzfs with ./configure --enable-debug --enable-shared --enable-plugins`
`21:31.32`	`CIA-6`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.cxx: ws (aka cvs works now?)`
`21:32.05`	`brlcad`	`ToughShooter: so fix it :)`
`21:43.46`	`*** join/#bzflag avidsavage (n=avidsava@tor/session/external/x-f208dd4a1d662c27)`
`21:54.08`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`21:54.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net)`
`21:55.28`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@ppp-68-20-6-165.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`22:11.57`	`CBG`	`If bugging won't get the mac build online quicker, what would? Donations? :P`
`22:12.50`	`orchid`	`doing brlcad's laundry`
`22:21.19`	`A_Meteorite`	`oh no... laundry!`
`22:23.35`	`Gnurdux`	`is global login slow right now?`
`22:23.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`Gnurdux: yes`
`22:24.00`	`Gnurdux`	`its annoying`
`22:24.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`22:28.28`	`CBG`	`It's very often slow for some weeks now.`
`22:28.56`	`CBG`	`Seems to got a whole bunch worse around the time they switched servers, though that's not necessarily the reason.`
`22:32.32`	`Gnurdux`	`cause the new one keeps getting DDOSed`
`22:34.22`	`CBG`	`They didnt fix that?`
`22:37.11`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@c-69-136-41-111.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)`
`22:48.39`	*** join/#bzflag kyelewis` (n=kyelewis@freematrix/staff/kyelewis)
`22:50.13`	`brlcad`	`ooh, someone should do my laundry`
`22:50.31`	`brlcad`	`the pile is massive, I think it moves`
`22:51.52`	`PuMpErNiCkLe`	`if it moves, get it to do itself`
`22:52.15`	`*** join/#bzflag broken_chaos (n=akatsuki@S010600045ae0d580.ok.shawcable.net)`
`22:55.02`	`*** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-137-216.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net)`
`22:56.46`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`22:56.46`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`22:57.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yay for keyboards that don't suck`
`22:57.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`Like?`
`22:57.27`	`JeffM2501`	`like this new one`
`22:57.29`	`JeffM2501`	`that dosn't suck`
`22:57.34`	`A_Meteorite`	`lol`
`22:57.53`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=chatzill@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1)`
`22:57.53`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ`
`22:58.30`	`JeffM2501`	`MS digital media pro`
`22:59.47`	`L4m3r`	`I don't think I've ever had anything better than a cheapo PS2 keyboard`
`23:01.16`	`menotume`	`does it have more than 100 extra buttons/heys ?`
`23:01.30`	`menotume`	`is it bigger than your desktop ?`
`23:02.15`	`*** part/#bzflag romfis (n=romfis@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at)`
`23:05.07`	`JeffM2501`	`not 100`
`23:05.08`	`JeffM2501`	`but some`
`23:05.13`	`JeffM2501`	`no it's a nice keyboard`
`23:05.14`	`JeffM2501`	`good feel`
`23:05.15`	`JeffM2501`	`USB`
`23:05.25`	`JeffM2501`	`calculator key, that's the best one :)`
`23:05.37`	`L4m3r`	`ah, my clear one had one of those`
`23:05.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`What happened to good 'ol PS/2? Not fast enough for all the keys now-a-days? ;)`
`23:05.53`	`L4m3r`	`It was nice, until I broke the keyboard`
`23:06.15`	`JeffM2501`	`A_Meteorite, not when you want a USB hub in your keyboard :)`
`23:06.16`	`L4m3r`	`oh well, it was a 10-dollar clear keyboard, heh`
`23:06.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`23:06.48`	`L4m3r`	`are there USB KVMs?`
`23:06.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:07.00`	`L4m3r`	`cool`
`23:07.21`	`L4m3r`	`hm... altho I bet the whole USB hub thing probably wouldn't be so great, eh?`
`23:07.58`	`*** join/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at)`
`23:08.47`	`JeffM2501`	`are you kidding`
`23:08.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it'a awesome`
`23:09.00`	`L4m3r`	`no, I mean, with a KVM`
`23:09.04`	`JeffM2501`	`naw`
`23:09.13`	`JeffM2501`	`just takes it as a conenct and disconect`
`23:09.21`	`JeffM2501`	`then the devices show on the other machine :)`
`23:09.28`	`L4m3r`	`heh`
`23:09.32`	`JeffM2501`	`USB is hot swap`
`23:09.55`	`L4m3r`	`maybe I'll just leave off the USB hub and stick some ports in my monitor ;)`
`23:11.30`	`JeffM2501`	`your monitor dosn't have a USB hub in it?`
`23:11.36`	`JeffM2501`	`wow`
`23:11.53`	`L4m3r`	`my monitor is a $100 21" CRT`
`23:12.02`	`L4m3r`	`in other words, it's OLD`
`23:12.04`	`JeffM2501`	`so :)`
`23:12.52`	`L4m3r`	`this summer I think I'll have some fun with sheet metal and bondo and integrate speakers, usb, fan controller...`
`23:13.36`	`L4m3r`	`maybe stick a flip-up laptop LCD on top for a second display, but that's harder than it sounds`
`23:14.31`	`JeffM2501`	`bondo?`
`23:14.37`	`JeffM2501`	`dude go fiberglass`
`23:15.27`	`L4m3r`	`bondo is just a gap filler really, you don't build anything with it...`
`23:15.27`	`L4m3r`	`that's where the sheet metal comes in`
`23:15.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I know`
`23:16.01`	`JeffM2501`	`gonna be heavy ;)`
`23:17.34`	`L4m3r`	`the damn thing is already framed in sheet metal inside...`
`23:17.48`	`L4m3r`	`given its size weight isn't much of an issue, heh`
`23:18.33`	`L4m3r`	`now what could be sweet would be a fiberglass PC case ;)`
`23:18.56`	`L4m3r`	`I may make it a few inches taller.`
`23:19.34`	`JeffM2501`	`it's 9 bays High already`
`23:19.58`	`L4m3r`	`:D`
`23:20.30`	`L4m3r`	`just a bit, for some air intake. Probably a net increase of two or three inches`
`23:20.43`	`CBG`	`how many inches tall right now?`
`23:20.58`	`CBG`	`;)`
`23:21.20`	`L4m3r`	`about 21"`
`23:22.03`	`CBG`	`so, 9 bays, 21 inches...`
`23:22.07`	`CBG`	`~21/9`
`23:22.08`	`ibot`	`2.333333333333`
`23:22.18`	`CBG`	`big bays. ;)`
`23:22.43`	`L4m3r`	`it's a ten bay case but they're not all the same size`
`23:22.59`	`L4m3r`	`4 5 1/4" and 6 3 1/2", and some open space`
`23:23.08`	`CBG`	`yeah, just kidding. the bays probably dont go right from top to bottom anyway - right?`
`23:23.15`	`CBG`	`yeah, open space ;)`
`23:23.25`	`JeffM2501`	`plus the top and bottom`
`23:23.40`	`L4m3r`	`actually, it looks like one could fit another drive cage in the lower gap`
`23:23.42`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't pull air from the bottom`
`23:23.52`	`L4m3r`	`mine does :)`
`23:23.56`	`JeffM2501`	`mine dosn't`
`23:24.10`	`JeffM2501`	`by "his case" I meant mine`
`23:24.21`	`L4m3r`	`ah`
`23:24.31`	`CBG`	`ooh, duh`
`23:24.32`	`L4m3r`	`what COULD I do to your case? heh`
`23:24.46`	`L4m3r`	`there aren't enough flat places on it to add windows or fans :P`
`23:24.53`	`JeffM2501`	`my case needs no mods`
`23:24.57`	`JeffM2501`	`windows are for girls`
`23:25.02`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`23:25.08`	`L4m3r`	`altho yours would probably watercool well`
`23:25.14`	`JeffM2501`	`yes it will`
`23:25.16`	`CBG`	`you mean windows _is_ for girls.`
`23:25.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it's made for it :)`
`23:25.18`	`L4m3r`	`the extra width would make it easy`
`23:25.31`	`JeffM2501`	`they have one that is made to hook right into the door`
`23:25.38`	`L4m3r`	`heh`
`23:25.51`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, no girls use linux`
`23:25.58`	`L4m3r`	`I really like some of the built-in Koolance watercooled cases`
`23:26.17`	`JeffM2501`	`pffft water is so 20th centry`
`23:26.19`	`CBG`	`JeffM2501: you seem to have a twisted, if not totally backwards, view on this :P`
`23:26.23`	`JeffM2501`	`phase transition cooling man ;)`
`23:26.26`	`L4m3r`	`they've got versions of the chieftec 601, Lian-Li v1000`
`23:26.38`	`JeffM2501`	`CBG, no, I'm basing it on observation`
`23:26.46`	`L4m3r`	`it's unfortunate that they add $300 or so to the price of the case`
`23:27.03`	`L4m3r`	`of course, phase change is another matter entirely...`
`23:27.10`	`CBG`	`Did you drop a comma after no?`
`23:27.29`	`CBG`	`"No, girls use linux" or "no girls use linux" as in "girls dont use linux" ?`
`23:27.40`	`JeffM2501`	`girls use linux`
`23:27.43`	`JeffM2501`	`deal with it ;)`
`23:27.57`	`CBG`	`Ok, but losers use Windows.`
`23:28.03`	`bryjen`	`they also drive tanks`
`23:28.06`	`CBG`	`Since I'm on Mac. ;)`
`23:28.13`	`JeffM2501`	`and stuck up wanabe "cool" kids use a mac`
`23:28.15`	`JeffM2501`	`are you done?`
`23:28.18`	`L4m3r`	`lol`
`23:28.22`	`CBG`	`stuckup? lool`
`23:28.25`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`23:28.37`	`CBG`	`I wish.`
`23:28.44`	`JeffM2501`	`yes you do wish to be a cool kid`
`23:28.51`	`JeffM2501`	`now are you done?`
`23:29.05`	`JeffM2501`	`cus I don't see where you are going with your pissing contest`
`23:29.12`	`CBG`	`I'm disagreeing with the stuckup bit.`
`23:29.15`	`L4m3r`	`how much would it cost to get a case chrome-plated? :D`
`23:29.17`	`JeffM2501`	`I am not`
`23:29.25`	`blast007`	`L4m3r: lol`
`23:29.27`	`JeffM2501`	`L4m3r, couple hundred`
`23:29.31`	`CBG`	`L4m3r: too much.`
`23:29.32`	`JeffM2501`	`can't have any plastic`
`23:29.40`	`L4m3r`	`Lian-Li.`
`23:29.44`	`JeffM2501`	`may also have disimilar metal problems`
`23:29.50`	`L4m3r`	`yeah, probably`
`23:29.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so you'd want to pull all the rivits and then repop it`
`23:30.04`	`L4m3r`	`maybe I could just polish it, heh`
`23:30.15`	`JeffM2501`	`you can buff aluminum prety good`
`23:30.16`	`blast007`	`L4m3r: does your case have spinners and hydrolics too? :)`
`23:30.25`	`JeffM2501`	`and stickers`
`23:30.32`	`L4m3r`	`No, but I've seen hydraulics done before believe it or not`
`23:30.34`	`JeffM2501`	`stickers add at least 5mhz`
`23:30.43`	`JeffM2501`	`you totaly need to run gentoo ;)`
`23:31.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue-Eyes (n=Blue@host157-224.pool870.interbusiness.it)`
`23:31.11`	`L4m3r`	`linux lives under my desk.`
`23:31.19`	`JeffM2501`	`no it HAS to be gentoo`
`23:31.24`	`JeffM2501`	`cus gentoo is for ricers ;)`
`23:31.28`	`L4m3r`	`lol`
`23:32.00`	`bryjen`	`rice?`
`23:32.26`	`menotume`	`~ricer`
`23:32.31`	`menotume`	`~dict ricer`
`23:32.43`	`DTRemenak`	`bryjen: yes, please...with the teriyaki chicken`
`23:32.43`	`menotume`	`right, that's what i thought :P`
`23:32.51`	`brlcad`	`hmm`
`23:32.59`	`brlcad`	`i could go for some chinese food right now`
`23:33.23`	`brlcad`	`yes! that too`
`23:36.37`	`JeffM2501`	`bryjen, ever see a honda civic with a wing on it?`
`23:38.22`	`JeffM2501`	`"Ricer: from the latin word Ricarius meaning to suck at everything you attempt"`
`23:38.34`	`L4m3r`	`or a dodge neon with a body kit that makes you think it's a snow plow...`
`23:38.39`	`blast007`	`lol`
`23:38.50`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ricer`
`23:39.27`	`brlcad`	`yay, dlcompat works`
`23:39.34`	`L4m3r`	`"Bodykit to make the car appear lower, usually accented with chicken wire"`
`23:39.36`	`L4m3r`	`lol`
`23:39.39`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`23:39.43`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: we now should even have plugins on 10.2 (never before did)`
`23:39.48`	`JeffM2501`	`wow`
`23:39.55`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sure the 5 people will LOVE you ;)`
`23:40.02`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`23:40.04`	`JeffM2501`	`how many OSX servers are there?`
`23:40.07`	`brlcad`	`i aim to please`
`23:41.02`	`brlcad`	`a couple last time i ran the stat script`
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`23:43.11`	`im_fine_u`	`hello`
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`23:46.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ`
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