| 00:00.09 | Gnurdux | is there anyway i can check the current cvs? |
| 00:01.03 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 00:09.58 | JeffM2501 | I think that's all the ones that need to be added |
| 00:10.08 | Gnurdux | thanks JeffM2501 |
| 00:10.12 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 00:10.36 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Kay_Knight (n=Bob@65-194-30-208.block4.gvtc.com) |
| 00:10.39 | Gnurdux | did you fix up the other one too, or just insert as is? |
| 00:10.40 | Sir_Kay_Knight | jeff |
| 00:10.50 | Sir_Kay_Knight | Jeff |
| 00:10.50 | JeffM2501 | yes? |
| 00:11.00 | Sir_Kay_Knight | i need my group deleted pronto plz |
| 00:11.04 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, I don't insert as is |
| 00:11.04 | Sir_Kay_Knight | global groups |
| 00:11.10 | JeffM2501 | we don't delte groups |
| 00:11.13 | JeffM2501 | just don't use it |
| 00:11.14 | Sir_Kay_Knight | as soon as posible |
| 00:11.18 | Sir_Kay_Knight | see gnurdux |
| 00:11.21 | Sir_Kay_Knight | he wont |
| 00:11.22 | Gnurdux | he wants a local group of the same name |
| 00:11.33 | JeffM2501 | use a difrent name |
| 00:11.36 | Sir_Kay_Knight | jeff any possible way ro delete? |
| 00:11.37 | JeffM2501 | we don't delete them |
| 00:11.39 | A_Meteorite | LOCAL.Name |
| 00:11.40 | JeffM2501 | we don't delete them |
| 00:11.41 | Gnurdux | ok Sir_Kay_Knight than thats why you dont you use LOCAL. |
| 00:11.46 | Gnurdux | i mean why you do |
| 00:11.47 | Sir_Kay_Knight | hmmm |
| 00:11.50 | Sir_Kay_Knight | or |
| 00:11.54 | Sir_Kay_Knight | AHA |
| 00:11.56 | JeffM2501 | the names are insternal |
| 00:11.58 | Sir_Kay_Knight | nchange to K |
| 00:12.05 | JeffM2501 | so there is no reason to have them be the same |
| 00:12.05 | Gnurdux | you can do local.Kay.* |
| 00:12.05 | Sir_Kay_Knight | K.ADMIN etc |
| 00:12.07 | Gnurdux | cant you? |
| 00:12.16 | Sir_Kay_Knight | gnurdux |
| 00:12.18 | Sir_Kay_Knight | dont worry |
| 00:12.23 | JeffM2501 | local.munchkin |
| 00:12.23 | Gnurdux | ill fi x Sir_Kay_Knight |
| 00:12.27 | Gnurdux | it will need another restart |
| 00:12.28 | Sir_Kay_Knight | change to K.Admin, K.Cop etc |
| 00:12.30 | Sir_Kay_Knight | ty |
| 00:12.33 | Sir_Kay_Knight | kk |
| 00:12.35 | Gnurdux | Sir_Kay_Knight, stop bossing him aroun |
| 00:12.36 | Gnurdux | d |
| 00:12.44 | Sir_Kay_Knight | im not bossin anyone |
| 00:12.48 | Sir_Kay_Knight | who? |
| 00:12.53 | A_Meteorite | Jeff |
| 00:12.56 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:12.58 | Sir_Kay_Knight | ohoh |
| 00:13.00 | Sir_Kay_Knight | sorry jeff |
| 00:13.02 | JeffM2501 | what? |
| 00:13.03 | Sir_Kay_Knight | Soory |
| 00:13.10 | Sir_Kay_Knight | Sorry Jeff |
| 00:13.12 | JeffM2501 | just don't type so much |
| 00:13.13 | JeffM2501 | wowe |
| 00:13.25 | Sir_Kay_Knight | i type fast :D |
| 00:13.36 | Sir_Kay_Knight | ill type a sentence starting....NOW |
| 00:13.39 | JeffM2501 | you just type too much crap that we doin't need to see |
| 00:13.41 | A_Meteorite | we all feel sorry for him |
| 00:13.43 | JeffM2501 | no, stop |
| 00:13.43 | A_Meteorite | ;) |
| 00:13.43 | Sir_Kay_Knight | Hi im bob i live in australia |
| 00:13.48 | Sir_Kay_Knight | there |
| 00:13.50 | *** kick/#bzflag [Sir_Kay_Knight!n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 00:13.55 | JeffM2501 | I mean crap |
| 00:13.59 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Kay_Knight (n=Bob@65-194-30-208.block4.gvtc.com) |
| 00:14.03 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 00:14.05 | Sir_Kay_Knight | ? |
| 00:14.08 | JeffM2501 | this isn't a channel for screwing around |
| 00:14.10 | Sir_Kay_Knight | :( |
| 00:14.12 | JeffM2501 | stop babbleing |
| 00:14.12 | Gnurdux | you got kicked Sir_Kay_Knight |
| 00:14.16 | Sir_Kay_Knight | Sorry |
| 00:14.20 | JeffM2501 | the 2 of you use freaking /msg |
| 00:14.26 | Gnurdux | its a serious channel, i got banned for asking too many questions and saying stupid things |
| 00:14.38 | A_Meteorite | or make your own |
| 00:14.43 | A_Meteorite | join #thisismyownchat |
| 00:14.47 | Sir_Kay_Knight | i have my own channel |
| 00:14.50 | A_Meteorite | use it |
| 00:14.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah #babble-idiots |
| 00:14.58 | Sir_Kay_Knight | i am #sirkay |
| 00:15.06 | JeffM2501 | USE /msg you 2 |
| 00:15.08 | JeffM2501 | now |
| 00:15.36 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, it just gets on the neves sometimes |
| 00:15.45 | JeffM2501 | good thing is I get a fun drive home and it'll make it all better |
| 00:15.49 | A_Meteorite | wow... and sometimes I thought I was always being bothered... |
| 00:16.00 | Mr_Molez | I thought it was getting a bit much lol |
| 00:16.23 | JeffM2501 | when you see short lines under 3 words each, 5 in a row.. yeah |
| 00:16.40 | A_Meteorite | have I told anyone how much I hate PHP and MySQL that should work but doesn't? |
| 00:16.48 | JeffM2501 | yes.. yes you have |
| 00:16.54 | A_Meteorite | heh |
| 00:16.56 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 00:17.43 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: not in the bzcontest ? |
| 00:19.08 | Mr_Molez | I could really do with winning actually. I stupidly bought this cheap desk thinking it was wood. After a few days I noticed a big wear mark on it from the mouse. Turns out it is covered in some cheap plastic and I have no mouse mat :) |
| 00:22.37 | EbErT | hi all |
| 00:22.46 | Mr_Molez | hello |
| 00:22.48 | JeffM2501 | oh I don't do those |
| 00:22.57 | JeffM2501 | would seem unfair if I won |
| 00:22.58 | EbErT | i was 1 day late in entering the contest, can't get that pad (although it looked sweet) |
| 00:23.03 | JeffM2501 | better to let the others have the fun |
| 00:23.21 | A_Meteorite | EbErT: registration is open late |
| 00:23.28 | EbErT | you are just one of the crowd imo |
| 00:23.31 | EbErT | :) |
| 00:23.40 | JeffM2501 | ehhh |
| 00:23.41 | EbErT | what do you mean? it said after it started, you couldn'lt register |
| 00:23.43 | A_Meteorite | it's open till day 3 |
| 00:23.45 | A_Meteorite | and it's day 2 |
| 00:23.54 | JeffM2501 | if I wanted the prizes I'd talk to saturos about buying some off him :) |
| 00:24.03 | EbErT | so i can just regiister? and answer the first 2? |
| 00:24.09 | A_Meteorite | no |
| 00:24.13 | A_Meteorite | you're out of luck on the first one |
| 00:24.17 | A_Meteorite | you can still enter the second one |
| 00:24.21 | EbErT | ah i see |
| 00:24.24 | Mr_Molez | Things seem more important when you win them, you can't buy that ;) |
| 00:24.25 | A_Meteorite | We decided to keep the registration accessable until day 03 (including it) because some people may just hear about the project, check this site, see a few images and want to join. It would be quite rude not to let them in. :) |
| 00:24.25 | JeffM2501 | basicly you just ahve to be better |
| 00:24.30 | JeffM2501 | and hope everyone else screws up |
| 00:24.34 | A_Meteorite | yeah |
| 00:24.45 | JeffM2501 | so your at a disadvantage, but not out of the running |
| 00:24.47 | A_Meteorite | you're only losing 3 points if you register now and answer the question now |
| 00:25.03 | JeffM2501 | same as getting one wrong |
| 00:25.06 | A_Meteorite | JeffM2501: couldn't of said it better myself :) |
| 00:26.10 | EbErT | yes, i know |
| 00:26.13 | EbErT | i can do it tho |
| 00:26.51 | A_Meteorite | eek, I killed my MySQL db |
| 00:26.55 | A_Meteorite | ...again |
| 00:27.24 | A_Meteorite | I don't know how it happens, but as soon as I updated a script that dumps DB info (doesn't modify the DB) it kills it |
| 00:27.38 | A_Meteorite | then I hit undo... still a blank page |
| 00:27.47 | A_Meteorite | *sigh* |
| 00:28.11 | JeffM2501 | get a blog |
| 00:28.12 | Mr_Molez | What are you trying to get working with mysql ? |
| 00:28.14 | JeffM2501 | that's what they are for |
| 00:28.28 | A_Meteorite | #meteoritesranting |
| 00:28.30 | A_Meteorite | hehe |
| 00:28.34 | A_Meteorite | good idea |
| 00:29.03 | JeffM2501 | there system isn't bad |
| 00:29.07 | JeffM2501 | unless you want RSS |
| 00:29.15 | JeffM2501 | then it's a couple hoops to go thru to get it |
| 00:29.15 | A_Meteorite | ahh |
| 00:29.20 | JeffM2501 | but it's dooable |
| 00:29.55 | JeffM2501 | you have to use feedburner |
| 00:31.01 | A_Meteorite | wow, that IS quick |
| 00:31.05 | A_Meteorite | on to making the blog |
| 00:31.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:31.19 | JeffM2501 | you get a some decent controlls too |
| 00:31.34 | JeffM2501 | I was able to tweak mine to my prefrence prety easy |
| 00:31.38 | brlcad | JeffM2501: what happens when the screenshot number overflows? :) |
| 00:31.59 | JeffM2501 | it rolls over |
| 00:31.59 | EbErT | bzflag shoots itself to death |
| 00:32.09 | JeffM2501 | after you have 2 billion screenshots |
| 00:32.16 | JeffM2501 | sorry 4 billion |
| 00:32.35 | JeffM2501 | it will overwrite what is there |
| 00:32.37 | JeffM2501 | it's not perfect |
| 00:32.43 | JeffM2501 | it's just better then what we had |
| 00:32.49 | JeffM2501 | we used to allways start at 0 |
| 00:33.09 | A_Meteorite | whoever takes 4 billion screenshots is crazy |
| 00:33.30 | JeffM2501 | the patch scaned the dirs for the file if the largest number |
| 00:33.36 | JeffM2501 | but only did it on one OS |
| 00:33.39 | A_Meteorite | Can I change the Blog title later? |
| 00:33.42 | A_Meteorite | just want to make sure |
| 00:33.43 | JeffM2501 | felt that was too complex |
| 00:33.54 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 00:36.08 | A_Meteorite | awesome |
| 00:36.08 | A_Meteorite | http://outmin.blogspot.com/ |
| 00:36.24 | A_Meteorite | now to post to it when I get time |
| 00:38.55 | brlcad | so it's unsigned.. a signed isn't going to roll over quite the same |
| 00:39.07 | brlcad | though if it's only used in the file name it shouldn't matter |
| 00:39.14 | brlcad | still take a million screenshots anyways |
| 00:39.21 | brlcad | er, billion |
| 00:41.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah it'll toggle between a minus and positive number |
| 00:41.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah I figured 2 billion was fine |
| 00:41.43 | JeffM2501 | cus that would be one big ass my documents dir :) |
| 00:42.07 | A_Meteorite | hehe, anyone would run out of disk space at about 10,000 or so screenshots |
| 00:42.10 | JeffM2501 | I can put a limit check on it if you want |
| 00:42.15 | JeffM2501 | like 10k or something |
| 00:42.17 | brlcad | probably would crash the system before you hit six digits |
| 00:42.22 | A_Meteorite | yeah |
| 00:42.23 | brlcad | nah |
| 00:42.28 | brlcad | let it go boom |
| 00:42.31 | JeffM2501 | I was just bored at work |
| 00:42.34 | A_Meteorite | KABOOM! |
| 00:42.35 | brlcad | no need for artificial limits |
| 00:42.39 | A_Meteorite | :) |
| 00:42.40 | JeffM2501 | so I did some patches that ticked my fancy |
| 00:42.47 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauu6e.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 00:42.48 | JeffM2501 | and the ones from that anoying kid |
| 00:43.07 | brlcad | mm.. so fancy getting ticked off.. :) |
| 00:43.13 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 00:43.21 | JeffM2501 | if you want to pull any of em, have at it :) |
| 00:43.24 | brlcad | "ticked my fancy" |
| 00:43.29 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 00:43.30 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:43.41 | JeffM2501 | I looked over the API sugestions on the froums too |
| 00:43.52 | JeffM2501 | they can all wait for 2.2 |
| 00:44.46 | JeffM2501 | sadly one more hour till I can ride home and send you that dmg art |
| 00:52.04 | trepan | heh |
| 00:52.11 | Mr_Molez | ) |
| 00:52.13 | Mr_Molez | :) |
| 00:52.32 | A_Meteorite | dmg art? |
| 00:52.34 | A_Meteorite | mmm... |
| 00:52.49 | A_Meteorite | well, I have to head out for night school |
| 00:52.50 | A_Meteorite | laters |
| 00:52.51 | Mr_Molez | trepan: aww comeon ill do good stuff with it :P |
| 00:54.20 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@debian/developer/dbharris) |
| 00:57.00 | EbErT | i'd love night school instead of regular school |
| 00:57.11 | EbErT | everything is biased towards early risers.. |
| 00:57.30 | brlcad | not everything |
| 00:57.56 | EbErT | ya, i know. there's nightclub owners |
| 00:57.58 | EbErT | :) |
| 00:58.18 | brlcad | i arranged my schedule so taht i rarely had a class before noon |
| 00:58.53 | EbErT | me either. but starting out in college, i had 8 am classes no matter what i did |
| 01:01.23 | JeffM2501 | I did most of my college after work |
| 01:02.10 | Gnurdux | how would i override the privs for local.admin JeffM2501 ? |
| 01:02.34 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 01:02.36 | JeffM2501 | magic |
| 01:02.46 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/README.WIN32: spellcheck the readme |
| 01:02.49 | Gnurdux | i tried doing -ALL and then specifying all privs |
| 01:02.50 | JeffM2501 | probably just add it as a group |
| 01:02.52 | Gnurdux | didnt work |
| 01:02.57 | Gnurdux | i did |
| 01:02.59 | JeffM2501 | why do you need to change it? |
| 01:03.07 | Gnurdux | i want it to be an admin group |
| 01:03.16 | JeffM2501 | why not make another admin group |
| 01:03.20 | Gnurdux | rather than superadmin |
| 01:03.20 | JeffM2501 | that is local |
| 01:03.32 | Gnurdux | i can just rename it i suppose |
| 01:03.36 | JeffM2501 | it's a special group |
| 01:03.41 | JeffM2501 | your not suposed to mess with it |
| 01:06.07 | Gnurdux | i dont like them either but Sir Kay does and im hosting his server |
| 01:06.26 | JeffM2501 | tell him "no" |
| 01:06.40 | Gnurdux | he got really upset when i did |
| 01:06.43 | Gnurdux | and hes really young |
| 01:06.49 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 01:07.04 | orchid | ooh a new Lou Diamond Phillips movie |
| 01:07.04 | JeffM2501 | disapointment is part of life |
| 01:07.07 | Gnurdux | he was annoyed that you would "only" make him like 8 groups |
| 01:07.17 | JeffM2501 | why woudl he need more |
| 01:07.21 | JeffM2501 | oh and local groups |
| 01:07.23 | JeffM2501 | tha'ts fine |
| 01:07.26 | JeffM2501 | I meant local users |
| 01:07.30 | Gnurdux | ahh |
| 01:08.11 | JeffM2501 | I would like to see somone set us up a way to automate groups |
| 01:08.16 | JeffM2501 | and tie them to a server account |
| 01:09.02 | Gnurdux | it could be a plugin |
| 01:09.06 | Gnurdux | couldnt it? |
| 01:09.07 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 01:09.12 | JeffM2501 | I mean on the froums |
| 01:09.17 | JeffM2501 | and part of the login system |
| 01:09.17 | Gnurdux | well does a plugin have any way to get to the token? |
| 01:09.21 | JeffM2501 | no it dosn't |
| 01:09.26 | JeffM2501 | I don't mean on the game server |
| 01:09.36 | Gnurdux | one way to do it would be for the server to use the user's token to automatically mod the groups |
| 01:10.01 | JeffM2501 | what does having the token do with automating the creation of groups? |
| 01:10.10 | JeffM2501 | group lookup is easy |
| 01:10.14 | JeffM2501 | and allready automated |
| 01:11.08 | JeffM2501 | I want a way for in the forums ( or more preferably a seperate account management system ) for a user to register a new server by name |
| 01:11.15 | JeffM2501 | then add who has access to it's groups |
| 01:11.25 | JeffM2501 | then let them add there own groups, all prefixed by the server name |
| 01:11.28 | JeffM2501 | unique name |
| 01:13.25 | JeffM2501 | then it becomes easy to group servers into networks |
| 01:13.28 | JeffM2501 | or leauges |
| 01:16.20 | Gnurdux | thats true |
| 01:16.27 | Gnurdux | and no need for asking for groups to be created |
| 01:16.34 | EbErT | what's the command to add a room to favorites? |
| 01:17.21 | JeffM2501 | EbErT, that probably is specific to your IRC client |
| 01:17.39 | EbErT | i can't seem to find it now, its right under my nose |
| 01:17.55 | JeffM2501 | I've never heard the term favorates used in regards to IRC |
| 01:18.23 | EbErT | well, mine has a favorites folder |
| 01:18.29 | EbErT | maybe its a mac thingt |
| 01:18.32 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, how long does it take for non-dev cVS repo to get updated |
| 01:18.33 | JeffM2501 | it would be |
| 01:18.40 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, up to 5 hours |
| 01:19.03 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@ACBD16BE.ipt.aol.com) |
| 01:19.08 | Gnurdux | hi Mr_Molez |
| 01:19.13 | Mr_Molez | hey |
| 01:19.22 | Mr_Molez | if I hit the power key on my keyboard one more time ! |
| 01:19.30 | Gnurdux | my patches are going to make it to 2.0.6, in better form! JeffM2501 improved them and put them in |
| 01:19.46 | JeffM2501 | there is a utility for windows that disables it IRC.. if you use windows. |
| 01:19.49 | Mr_Molez | thanks ill sleep better knowing that |
| 01:20.10 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: Ill take a look |
| 01:20.12 | JeffM2501 | I think the inteletype driver can do it too |
| 01:20.17 | JeffM2501 | if you have a MS keyboard |
| 01:20.20 | JeffM2501 | I had the same problem |
| 01:20.24 | JeffM2501 | and was able to turn it off |
| 01:20.36 | JeffM2501 | it's RIGHT next to the calculator key too |
| 01:20.45 | EbErT | what about a usb hub that makes your keyboard type extra letters? u know how to fix that? |
| 01:20.55 | JeffM2501 | get a hub that dosn't suck |
| 01:20.58 | EbErT | its probably because it isn't a powered one |
| 01:20.59 | JeffM2501 | for 20$ |
| 01:21.13 | EbErT | its iogear, looked good, was 11 |
| 01:21.25 | JeffM2501 | aperantly it isn't |
| 01:21.33 | EbErT | so unpowered ones do work.. |
| 01:21.37 | EbErT | heh |
| 01:21.42 | JeffM2501 | bad hardware shoudl be thrown not coddled |
| 01:22.33 | EbErT | the scary thing is i have been using it to connect to my backup hd |
| 01:22.58 | JeffM2501 | then it's your own fault if it geeks :) |
| 01:23.03 | EbErT | doesn't seem to mess up that way though |
| 01:23.22 | JeffM2501 | yay.. time to ride home |
| 01:23.28 | orange | so EbErT I actually thought we agreed on several things... I was surprised you were complaining that I disagreed with you so much |
| 01:23.36 | Mr_Molez | couldn't find it in windows anywhere so i just remove the key from the keyboard :) |
| 01:23.48 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, what kinda keyboard is it? |
| 01:23.48 | EbErT | well, menotume and i were agreeing more |
| 01:23.59 | EbErT | yes, we did agree some |
| 01:24.14 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: I can't actually see any name on it. It is very cheap and tacky |
| 01:24.18 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 01:24.20 | orange | you should know that my *personal* preferences aren't always what I think is best for the server |
| 01:24.35 | JeffM2501 | spend $24 and get the MS digital media pro one... it works well |
| 01:24.46 | EbErT | i was talking about the server though, so your personal prefs shouldn't be in there |
| 01:24.50 | Gnurdux | m$ :( |
| 01:24.55 | orange | and that your thoughts on shot limits are something that you'd be hard pressed to get any two people to agree with |
| 01:24.56 | JeffM2501 | they make good hardware |
| 01:25.09 | EbErT | i have a mac, no ms stuff :) |
| 01:25.09 | JeffM2501 | realy good hardware |
| 01:25.18 | orange | you didn't hear my personal preferences, EbErT. You heard what I thought is best for the server. |
| 01:25.21 | EbErT | i'll find a good one though, powered |
| 01:25.22 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, is the bzf forum highly modified phpbb? |
| 01:25.24 | JeffM2501 | and the standard apple keyboad is good? |
| 01:25.26 | EbErT | oh ok |
| 01:25.30 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, not highly |
| 01:25.34 | orange | you get to want what you want... your own personal choices |
| 01:25.38 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: At the moment I am trying to get myself an athlon 64.. So I will be a bit struck for cash atm :P Will need a new mobo aswell |
| 01:25.40 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, what about groups and stuff? |
| 01:25.42 | EbErT | no, i have an ibook, have a sllim keyboard' |
| 01:25.50 | orange | I'm trying to think of everyone.... as a result of compromises, nobody is ever 100% happy |
| 01:25.52 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, groups are part of phpbb |
| 01:25.52 | EbErT | standard one stinks, standard mice stink |
| 01:26.06 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-63-204-105-139.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 01:26.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 01:26.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah I don't like my apple keyboard |
| 01:26.11 | JeffM2501 | put a MS one in and it was fine |
| 01:26.18 | EbErT | well, i would like some changes of some kind |
| 01:26.26 | *** join/#bzflag BWD (n=bdotson@pdpc/supporter/student/bdotson) |
| 01:26.52 | EbErT | more experimenting and voting after things have been tested |
| 01:27.01 | EbErT | like the ctf plugin.. |
| 01:27.48 | Gnurdux | CTF plugin |
| 01:27.53 | EbErT | i told fox about the discussion we had on #slivercat. he came back and said there was nothing there.. |
| 01:28.29 | EbErT | ctf disable when team ratios aren't even enough, on silvercat server |
| 01:28.44 | Gnurdux | oh that one |
| 01:28.58 | Gnurdux | i jost thought of a cool 2.1 idea for someone to implement |
| 01:29.07 | Gnurdux | modular styles of gameplay |
| 01:29.12 | Mr_Molez | has anyone got any clue about chroot environments ? |
| 01:29.14 | Gnurdux | that can be implemented by plugins |
| 01:29.18 | Gnurdux | me |
| 01:29.35 | EbErT | it doesn't allow the minority team to touch any team flags when its enabled, and it enables too fast after someone leaves |
| 01:29.57 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, you can have current version of theming but be warned, it cant save to file |
| 01:29.58 | EbErT | u can just leave for a minute and your flag won't get capped |
| 01:30.08 | orange | yes, ebert, the plugin needs to be rewritten |
| 01:30.12 | orange | you know anybody interested in doing it? |
| 01:30.30 | Gnurdux | it probably shouldnt make anyone DROP the flag |
| 01:30.30 | orange | I don't think anybody disagrees that it needs work |
| 01:30.37 | Gnurdux | just prevent people from picking it up |
| 01:30.38 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: why would I want it ? My server don't need things like that |
| 01:30.43 | EbErT | he got it from l3mer in the first place (he was the one who made it) i'll ask him |
| 01:30.46 | Gnurdux | if they pick it up, then it gets dropped |
| 01:30.52 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, why did you like it then? |
| 01:30.54 | EbErT | he likes those things |
| 01:30.58 | Gnurdux | and wheres your server? |
| 01:31.03 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: Because it makes it easier for people |
| 01:31.05 | Gnurdux | does it allow cheating? |
| 01:31.12 | Mr_Molez | no it doesn't lol |
| 01:31.16 | Gnurdux | aww |
| 01:31.17 | EbErT | if it needs work, then why the heck is it there now? its just plain BAD the way it is |
| 01:31.21 | Mr_Molez | ducati-style.bzflag.org |
| 01:31.36 | Gnurdux | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:31.41 | EbErT | put back the cap warnings generated by the server |
| 01:31.48 | EbErT | hi SportChick |
| 01:31.48 | orange | because, EbErT, it's a compromise. You see, people complained when there were no admins around to prevent unfair ctf |
| 01:32.02 | orange | and they had a point |
| 01:32.04 | SportChick | EbErT: hiya |
| 01:32.11 | EbErT | put that messaging plugin back, it seemed very good |
| 01:32.15 | Mr_Molez | silvercat doesn't seem as popular as it use to be |
| 01:32.28 | orange | but truly, it's not BAD the way it is... it's just bad to you |
| 01:32.38 | orange | for example, our published rules stated that the weaker team can capture |
| 01:32.43 | orange | I'd say about 50% of the people don't like that rule |
| 01:32.54 | EbErT | that's nuts |
| 01:33.16 | orange | but please don't forget that you don't speak for everyone, that's all I'm saying |
| 01:33.35 | orange | you speak for yourself |
| 01:33.37 | EbErT | i don't see how that would make sense or be fair. the weaker can always capture |
| 01:33.38 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 01:33.39 | orange | and I very much welcome your input |
| 01:33.57 | orange | EbErT: that's your preference... it also happens to be mine, and most of the other owners |
| 01:34.13 | orange | but lots of people don't like it that way |
| 01:34.18 | EbErT | well, i guess i have been talking to ppl who would like the plugin more polished before its just plopped in there |
| 01:34.19 | orange | for example, the guy who wrote the plugin |
| 01:34.43 | orange | see, EbErT, again, your perception is off |
| 01:34.44 | EbErT | and lotsa ppl are cool with it. i understand |
| 01:34.49 | orange | we discussed that pluginfor a long time |
| 01:35.01 | EbErT | ya ya, people don't make sense :) |
| 01:35.20 | orange | the only thing silverfox has really done recently without discussing it with us is tweaking a couple of things like thief |
| 01:35.40 | EbErT | he discusses everything with u before doing anything? |
| 01:35.43 | orange | and well, that's silverfox... he's been pretty good about it overall |
| 01:35.54 | EbErT | he said all the owners can do what they want, since he doesn't have time to discuss |
| 01:35.55 | orange | mostly, yes, he does |
| 01:36.23 | orange | yeah, his recent tweaking has been without discussion, as I said |
| 01:36.24 | EbErT | well, i don't like dealing w/ him, he is dishonest to me sometimes |
| 01:36.40 | orange | what? |
| 01:37.06 | orange | silverfox is a great guy who has donated his time, money, and energy to this thing |
| 01:37.19 | orange | he has lots of things that are more important in his life, especially right now |
| 01:37.25 | orange | but he continues to pay the bills |
| 01:37.27 | EbErT | i know. he just isn't too good at "customer service" |
| 01:37.29 | orange | and provide the hardware |
| 01:37.36 | EbErT | i've thanked him for that before |
| 01:37.41 | EbErT | it uses lots of bandwidth |
| 01:37.42 | orange | that's why he recruited others to participate |
| 01:38.03 | orange | at a high level |
| 01:38.57 | orange | honestly, the way you approach 'suggestions' can be off-putting |
| 01:39.30 | EbErT | probably so. but things don't happen fast at all on forums |
| 01:39.46 | orange | no, nothing happens fast when it's all volunteer run |
| 01:39.54 | EbErT | and i don't really like forums |
| 01:40.02 | EbErT | but that's my thing |
| 01:40.35 | orange | all I'm saying is to remember that you're stating your preferences, and that we love to hear your preferences |
| 01:40.40 | orange | because we hear lots of people's preferences |
| 01:40.56 | orange | and based on all those things, plus our ideas of fair play and good fun, we try to make good decisions |
| 01:41.08 | EbErT | things are just structured very differently on places i can have more input (louman and norang) |
| 01:41.14 | EbErT | i'm just frustrated, sry |
| 01:42.02 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-185.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.13 | orange | please don't stop providing your input... just please don't expect us to jump and make changes based on it immediately. We have lots of things we weigh, plus most of us have full-time jobs |
| 01:42.40 | EbErT | ok, i appreciate it |
| 01:43.12 | Gnurdux | EbErT, it doesnt even make sense for the weaker team to be able to capture |
| 01:43.57 | EbErT | why not, its one responsibility of the stronger team |
| 01:43.58 | Gnurdux | if the stronger team cant |
| 01:44.01 | Gnurdux | no |
| 01:44.08 | Gnurdux | what if a team is stronger by 1 player |
| 01:44.15 | orange | hehe, thanks for making my point gnurdux :-) |
| 01:44.16 | Gnurdux | now, it has a big DISadvantage |
| 01:44.20 | Gnurdux | by being stronger |
| 01:44.22 | orange | I think the weaker team should be able to cap, myself |
| 01:44.32 | EbErT | well, the changes being made to silvercat seem to be making it less of a challenge and more "fair" |
| 01:44.54 | Gnurdux | well its most challenging without the plugin at all |
| 01:44.58 | Gnurdux | we could just remove it |
| 01:45.01 | EbErT | put bullet limits on every flag. then, from there, just have no flags at all |
| 01:45.06 | EbErT | and it can be pillbox |
| 01:45.10 | orange | yay, no flags :-) |
| 01:45.12 | orange | yay pillbox :-) |
| 01:45.13 | orange | hehe |
| 01:45.22 | EbErT | hey, it has its own server. which is good |
| 01:45.39 | orange | yep |
| 01:45.44 | EbErT | but u liked it when it was in the rotation, cuz it had more of a chance for ppl waiting for the next map to play |
| 01:45.53 | EbErT | (probably liked it) |
| 01:45.56 | orange | yeah, I did :-) |
| 01:46.07 | EbErT | see, i can use perspective |
| 01:46.14 | Gnurdux | i dont like pillbox |
| 01:46.25 | Mr_Molez | how can you not like pillbox ? |
| 01:46.28 | orange | and I obviously don't get everything I want (not by a long shot, actually) |
| 01:46.33 | Gnurdux | i like jumping |
| 01:46.35 | Gnurdux | and superflags |
| 01:46.43 | Mr_Molez | pfft |
| 01:46.54 | Gnurdux | actually the map on silvercat right now is pretty cool |
| 01:46.57 | EbErT | who put the 50 shot burrow flag limit in |
| 01:46.58 | Gnurdux | whats in the current rotation |
| 01:47.08 | Gnurdux | this is Walkways |
| 01:47.28 | Mr_Molez | janis's.. links clan was hosting that first :P |
| 01:47.34 | orange | it's not janis's |
| 01:47.40 | EbErT | ah, nvm, alread,dy talked about that |
| 01:47.43 | orange | but there was some confusion on that |
| 01:47.47 | Mr_Molez | janis sent it in |
| 01:47.50 | orange | now see, I actually hate that map :-) |
| 01:47.56 | Gnurdux | heh |
| 01:48.00 | Gnurdux | what else is in rotation? |
| 01:48.02 | orange | I'm getting to like overlord and babel more |
| 01:48.03 | Gnurdux | overlord |
| 01:48.04 | Gnurdux | babel |
| 01:48.06 | EbErT | me too. most wiki's have been stinky |
| 01:48.08 | Mr_Molez | i liked it at first.. Then found out it was impossible for me to get to the bases |
| 01:48.09 | Gnurdux | those are both fun maps |
| 01:48.15 | orange | Mr_Molez: exactly |
| 01:48.18 | EbErT | but still shouldn't stop having wiki's. just need more maps |
| 01:48.38 | orange | it's not fun if you have to do 10 intricate jumps to get to your goal |
| 01:48.41 | orange | (to me) |
| 01:48.52 | EbErT | i don't see u on babel or overlord much orange |
| 01:48.52 | Mr_Molez | heh. I tried for like 10 minutes to get up there |
| 01:48.58 | Mr_Molez | never managed it :P |
| 01:49.05 | orange | you don't see me on any bzflag much, ebert, not right now |
| 01:49.18 | Gnurdux | what maps are in what silvercat rotations? |
| 01:49.20 | orange | but I have probably played more overlord and babel (as a percentage) in the last two weeks than ever before |
| 01:49.42 | orange | I think steps is still there, though I haven't checked today |
| 01:49.47 | EbErT | ^nightmare^ has made some pretty awesome ones |
| 01:49.54 | EbErT | i think it is |
| 01:50.05 | orange | it has a love/hate relationship with players |
| 01:50.23 | bryjen | eeep |
| 01:50.28 | EbErT | steps? |
| 01:50.43 | Mr_Molez | trepan's ahod map is good... **coughs ill give u $20 for it. coughs ** |
| 01:50.58 | EbErT | how does one get a map entered into the wiki rotation |
| 01:51.04 | orange | Mr_Molez: ahod required too much intelligence on the part of the average user |
| 01:51.10 | orange | EbErT: there is no official wiki right now |
| 01:51.14 | Mr_Molez | orange: nah i wanted a league for it |
| 01:51.28 | orange | yeah, an ahod league would be interesting |
| 01:51.59 | Mr_Molez | alot of players especially gu and ducati have shown a great interest in it :P |
| 01:52.34 | EbErT | is there an info page about it? i haven't heard |
| 01:53.14 | Mr_Molez | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6449&highlight=&sid=a57f77c2bd56b5bb261a479761e9c4cd |
| 01:53.27 | EbErT | cool, ty molez |
| 01:54.24 | bryjen | i'm also getting a "warning there was a problem reading /path/to/srvmsg.txt", but it is sending the srv message too |
| 01:54.51 | *** join/#bzflag MadRush (n=mrblue@c-69-142-185-225.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 01:55.23 | MadRush | ok, i have a problem. i can shoot myself, but when i shoot others, the bullet goes harmlessly through them |
| 01:55.34 | EbErT | its king of the hill! |
| 01:55.40 | Gnurdux | orange, here is my suggestion for the plugin? |
| 01:55.58 | Gnurdux | or EbErT |
| 01:56.01 | Gnurdux | here is my idea |
| 01:56.05 | MadRush | anybody know of a cause/solution to that problem? |
| 01:56.22 | Gnurdux | instead of dropping the flag of whoever is carrying it, simply let nobody pick it up |
| 01:56.29 | bryjen | MadRush: perhaps you have a firewall that's blocking some of the packets? |
| 01:56.37 | Gnurdux | so when dropped, it returns to base, and when picked up, it drops |
| 01:56.47 | MadRush | i do indeed have a firewall, are there ports that need to be opened? |
| 01:57.45 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=foo@adsl-69-109-217-70.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 01:57.45 | Gnurdux | hi wegstar |
| 01:57.45 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: do /lagstats tell me what numbers you see |
| 01:57.45 | orange | Gnurdux: I'm not clear on what you're suggesting |
| 01:57.53 | MadRush | alright, gimmie a bit. |
| 01:57.55 | wegstar | hello Gnurdux |
| 01:58.13 | Gnurdux | orange, make it so that if teams become uneven while flag is being carried, it isnt dropped |
| 01:58.31 | orange | just let them keep going? |
| 01:58.32 | Gnurdux | its only dropped if someone picks it up once the teams are uneven |
| 01:58.42 | bryjen | i'm not sure of the ports on the client (they may be dynamic). if its win xp, you may need to add the bzflag program to the exceptions |
| 01:59.05 | EbErT | so they can hold it if they don't drop it until it evens up? |
| 01:59.05 | MadRush | Mr_Molez: 82, 84, 250 ms |
| 01:59.17 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: ok try what bryjen said :) |
| 01:59.23 | Gnurdux | orange, that would remove the frustration thing |
| 01:59.33 | Gnurdux | how about this: then, any team can pick them up |
| 01:59.36 | Gnurdux | sort of |
| 01:59.41 | MadRush | im running kubuntu 5.1 on x86_64 |
| 01:59.44 | Gnurdux | but if the bigger team picks it up they are /killed |
| 02:00.00 | EbErT | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:00.16 | Gnurdux | not really |
| 02:00.19 | EbErT | but the last thing that needs to be done is make it easier for the majority team |
| 02:00.21 | Gnurdux | it doesnt affect score |
| 02:00.22 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: the ubuntu version of bzflag is buggy I suggest you install the latest cvs |
| 02:00.25 | EbErT | i know |
| 02:00.28 | Gnurdux | it wont be easier for majority team |
| 02:00.40 | Gnurdux | if majority team picks it up, BANG |
| 02:00.49 | Gnurdux | minority team can pick it up |
| 02:00.54 | EbErT | no, i was just saying. let minority team be able to pick at least one team flag up |
| 02:00.59 | MadRush | ah well i downloaded source from sourceforge and compiled and get the same thing. odd thing was when i removed bzflag apparently the config files were still there.. |
| 02:01.02 | Gnurdux | but if it is already being held, it can stay help |
| 02:01.38 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: did you delete the previous bzfag before you installed the source from sourceforge ? |
| 02:01.44 | EbErT | can u summarize all of this in a block paragraph? i dunno if i have it all |
| 02:01.46 | bryjen | yeah, i can see the config files not being part of the package (the program generates them on run), so they wouldn't go |
| 02:02.42 | MadRush | i removed in adept (which uses dpkg) , if removing that way leaves old files, then no i didnt delete them |
| 02:03.09 | Gnurdux | EbErT, OK |
| 02:03.13 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: Can you show me on a server what is happening ? |
| 02:03.21 | bryjen | i'd expect that to remove the programs alright |
| 02:03.28 | MadRush | sure, got a server in mind? |
| 02:03.28 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: btw 250ms is very high |
| 02:03.44 | MadRush | how about 82 ms? |
| 02:04.04 | Mr_Molez | links.bzflag.org 5154 |
| 02:04.20 | Gnurdux | If the teams become uneven when someone is carrying the flag, nothing happens. However once they drop the flag, it stays dropped. Only minority team can pick up team flags, but anyone can hold. |
| 02:05.26 | Mr_Molez | orange: do your rotation scripts not cause jitter problems ? |
| 02:05.30 | Gnurdux | ok EbErT ? |
| 02:05.34 | Gnurdux | how does that sound' |
| 02:05.39 | EbErT | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:05.54 | Gnurdux | and maybe it will /kill majority team if they try to pick up |
| 02:05.59 | Gnurdux | or maybe just autodrop it |
| 02:06.36 | Gnurdux | wait though im just thinking |
| 02:06.45 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: coming :) ? |
| 02:06.45 | Gnurdux | maybe it should take team score into account to |
| 02:06.47 | EbErT | no, they can't hold the opponent's flag right by the base, then they just wait til 1 person joins to even it up and caps |
| 02:06.56 | Gnurdux | majority team can hold if their team score is lower |
| 02:07.00 | orange | Mr_Molez: rotation scripts causing jitter? |
| 02:07.03 | EbErT | minority could hold their own flag only in that caase |
| 02:07.20 | Gnurdux | EbErT, but they would get shot doing that |
| 02:07.30 | EbErT | get /killed? |
| 02:07.37 | Mr_Molez | orange: When I tried the rotation script. It ended up causing alot of jitter problems |
| 02:07.39 | Gnurdux | no |
| 02:07.50 | Gnurdux | wait |
| 02:07.56 | Gnurdux | you can cap it if you are holding it EbErT |
| 02:08.12 | EbErT | ya? |
| 02:08.19 | Mr_Molez | orange: the script was in an infinate loop of trying to start the server. Is that normal ? |
| 02:08.34 | EbErT | if u are holding theirs and right by your base |
| 02:08.49 | EbErT | waiting for the teams to even up |
| 02:08.57 | Gnurdux | no |
| 02:09.02 | Gnurdux | EbErT, if i am holding your flag |
| 02:09.06 | Gnurdux | and you leave |
| 02:09.07 | orange | Mr_Molez: well, yeah |
| 02:09.12 | Gnurdux | my team is now minority |
| 02:09.21 | orange | but it shouldn't have anything to do with jitter |
| 02:09.29 | orange | unless something is wrong and it's loading the server |
| 02:09.31 | Gnurdux | server makes an announcement: do not take their flag |
| 02:09.36 | Gnurdux | but you are holding it |
| 02:09.38 | Gnurdux | you can cap it |
| 02:09.44 | Mr_Molez | orange: maybe it just was a co-incidence that everyone had jitter hehe |
| 02:09.50 | Gnurdux | that way when one person leaves it cant screw things up |
| 02:10.15 | EbErT | that isn't too fair though |
| 02:10.24 | Gnurdux | its fair enough |
| 02:10.29 | Gnurdux | its totally unfair if i have your flag |
| 02:10.33 | *** join/#bzflag MadRush (n=mrblue@c-69-142-185-225.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 02:10.36 | Gnurdux | you can leave, and force me to drop it? |
| 02:10.41 | MadRush | that was odd |
| 02:10.49 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: welcome back |
| 02:10.50 | Gnurdux | then you can come back right away |
| 02:10.50 | MadRush | ok so what was that server and port again? |
| 02:10.53 | Gnurdux | and bam too bad for me |
| 02:10.56 | orange | long rejoin delays should prevent that kind of nonsense anyway |
| 02:10.56 | Mr_Molez | links.bzflag.org 5154 |
| 02:11.00 | MadRush | alright |
| 02:11.03 | EbErT | that's the way the plugin is right now gnurdux |
| 02:11.11 | EbErT | which is unacceptable |
| 02:11.20 | orange | and that's how it would work if there were admins present too |
| 02:11.23 | Gnurdux | exactly |
| 02:11.28 | orange | as soon as the threshold passed, you would be asked to drop the flag |
| 02:11.37 | orange | if you didn't, you could be /kill'ed or /kick'ed |
| 02:11.38 | Gnurdux | orange, thats why i want it so that you DONT have to drop it |
| 02:11.42 | Gnurdux | IF you are holding it |
| 02:11.56 | Gnurdux | but, if you pick it up, then your in trouble |
| 02:11.59 | orange | EbErT: unacceptable? That's one of those power words you might want to watch ;-) |
| 02:12.02 | Gnurdux | but only if your majority |
| 02:12.11 | Gnurdux | orange, isnt that a good idea? |
| 02:12.23 | orange | Gnurdux: what if two or three people leave at the same time? |
| 02:12.30 | EbErT | well, it doesn't seem right. if there was more of a delay time on it, it would be ok |
| 02:12.33 | orange | what if the guy *just* picked it up from the base |
| 02:12.33 | EbErT | ou |
| 02:12.38 | Gnurdux | orange, even so |
| 02:12.42 | Gnurdux | even so |
| 02:12.45 | orange | he gets to carry it the whole way with uneven teams? |
| 02:12.48 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 02:12.50 | EbErT | but its easy to take advantage of it by rejoining nowinw |
| 02:12.52 | Gnurdux | its only 1 point |
| 02:13.09 | orange | rejointime should be like 20 seconds |
| 02:13.19 | MadRush | weird, huh? |
| 02:13.23 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: do you how to get the cvs ? |
| 02:13.24 | Gnurdux | orange, its 1 point |
| 02:13.30 | Gnurdux | its better than what we have now |
| 02:13.40 | Mr_Molez | ~bzcvs MadRush |
| 02:13.41 | MadRush | first time for everything |
| 02:13.41 | Gnurdux | cause what if i was about to cap the flag, and it dropped |
| 02:13.43 | Gnurdux | because of the time |
| 02:13.45 | EbErT | no, it should take more time for the plugin to activate once it becomes uneven. see? |
| 02:13.48 | Mr_Molez | ~bzcvs |
| 02:13.50 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
| 02:13.55 | orange | well, then, gnurdux, it's only one point, right? ;-) |
| 02:14.08 | Gnurdux | but its still frustrating |
| 02:14.20 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: I suggest you download and install the cvs |
| 02:14.21 | orange | it's also frustrating to get capped when the teams are 10-6 |
| 02:14.24 | MadRush | ok |
| 02:14.25 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:14.39 | orange | there is no right answer... |
| 02:14.40 | Mr_Molez | MadRush: tell me if you need help getting it |
| 02:14.40 | orange | but |
| 02:14.46 | orange | these are ALL good ideas |
| 02:14.51 | MadRush | do i do a 'make uninstall' to get rid of the old one that i compiled ? |
| 02:14.55 | orange | and a plugin that supported them ALL would be snazzy |
| 02:15.07 | Mr_Molez | if u get the cvs and install it will overwrite the other one anyway |
| 02:15.08 | Gnurdux | a generic configurable CTF plugin? |
| 02:15.12 | MadRush | oh ok |
| 02:15.13 | Gnurdux | but which option would they use |
| 02:15.13 | orange | yes |
| 02:15.25 | EbErT | doesn't it need to be rewritten though, cuz fox said it wasn't very customizable as it is now |
| 02:15.25 | orange | Gnurdux: don't know, but at least there would be choices |
| 02:15.43 | Gnurdux | is there a bzfs API event for picking up a flag? |
| 02:15.47 | orange | EbErT: not necessarily, but perhaps |
| 02:16.05 | EbErT | any way to make it take longer to activate when they become uneven as it is now? |
| 02:16.17 | EbErT | that's the main thing that could be fixed |
| 02:16.31 | orange | there is almost zero configurability |
| 02:16.41 | Gnurdux | how about a combination? |
| 02:17.04 | Gnurdux | wait actually |
| 02:17.08 | Gnurdux | im just thinking |
| 02:17.08 | orange | Gnurdux: you would need lots of options |
| 02:17.35 | Gnurdux | orange, my idea i think more than makes up for allowing them to keep the flag with the fact that afterwards, minority can hold, but not majority |
| 02:17.45 | orange | perhaps two ratios... one for 'let them keep going' and another for 'drop now no matter what' |
| 02:17.53 | orange | one option for 'minority can cap' |
| 02:18.17 | orange | options for 'departing player activation delay' and 'arriving player deactivation delay' |
| 02:18.26 | orange | (for EbErT :-) |
| 02:18.28 | Gnurdux | orange, but why? |
| 02:18.32 | Gnurdux | this is only for silvercat |
| 02:18.35 | EbErT | thx orange :) |
| 02:18.39 | orange | Gnurdux: why only for silvercat? |
| 02:18.45 | Gnurdux | who else wnats it? |
| 02:18.50 | Gnurdux | and changign source is easy |
| 02:19.04 | bryjen | ah-hah! |
| 02:19.05 | orange | Gnurdux: nooooooooooooo |
| 02:19.12 | bryjen | ~bzfrag JeffM2501 |
| 02:19.14 | ibot | ACTION squishes JeffM2501 with a steamroller |
| 02:19.15 | EbErT | pretty sure fox took this plugin straight off its implementation on planetmofo |
| 02:19.29 | orange | menotume wrote a nice nagware plugin to help boost registration (which works great) |
| 02:19.32 | orange | others are using it now |
| 02:19.37 | orange | and it's totally configurable |
| 02:19.42 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:19.43 | orange | which means they can have their own policies |
| 02:19.53 | orange | and most people cannot deal with source changes |
| 02:20.10 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:20.32 | EbErT | we use it on norang, and its awesome |
| 02:20.37 | orange | if someone is interested in writing this (gnurdux, whoever), I'm SURE we can come up with lots of ideas for options |
| 02:20.49 | Gnurdux | id like to try writing a basic version |
| 02:20.52 | orange | I already have a ton... I've been bugging menotume to write a better one for a long time |
| 02:20.53 | Gnurdux | without any options |
| 02:21.03 | orange | Gnurdux: we have a basic version without any options :-) |
| 02:21.07 | Gnurdux | hmm |
| 02:21.11 | Gnurdux | well what options are needed? |
| 02:21.13 | EbErT | we should make a list, so we don't forget the options tho |
| 02:21.20 | Gnurdux | this could be a multi-person project |
| 02:21.27 | Gnurdux | actually, silvercat should setup a CVS repo |
| 02:21.30 | orange | I just started a list... all those would be good |
| 02:21.51 | EbErT | yay. i'll just be the tester, since unfortunately i don't know how to code it |
| 02:21.55 | Gnurdux | im kind of a newb to plugin making |
| 02:21.59 | Gnurdux | EbErT, do you know any C++? |
| 02:22.10 | EbErT | nope |
| 02:22.13 | Gnurdux | ah |
| 02:22.21 | EbErT | sry, can't help ya |
| 02:22.38 | Gnurdux | im still working on my first plugin |
| 02:22.39 | orange | messages, kills, kicks, flag drop, flag lifting, all configurable |
| 02:22.48 | orange | some might want *just* messages |
| 02:22.50 | Gnurdux | kicks is extreme |
| 02:22.53 | orange | some might want to kick immediately |
| 02:23.03 | orange | kick is good sometimes though |
| 02:23.06 | orange | it evens up the teams |
| 02:23.06 | Gnurdux | kill is better |
| 02:23.07 | Gnurdux | why? |
| 02:23.09 | Gnurdux | ah true |
| 02:23.16 | orange | the kick message can be configurable |
| 02:23.27 | orange | and could say "we're sorry, but we had to kick you to help even out the teams, PLEASE rejoin now" |
| 02:23.28 | brlcad | or empties out servers and confuses players |
| 02:23.40 | orange | brlcad: what did I win? |
| 02:23.55 | brlcad | a gold star is all :) |
| 02:23.57 | Gnurdux | orange, so should it have like a configuration file? |
| 02:24.01 | orange | awww |
| 02:24.06 | orange | Gnurdux: yes, definitely |
| 02:24.07 | brlcad | highest fs user on bz other than myself |
| 02:24.19 | Gnurdux | thats too complicated for me |
| 02:24.24 | orange | Gnurdux: check out meno's nagware plugin |
| 02:24.24 | EbErT | no, can't kick to even out teams, what if they were working on a good score |
| 02:24.26 | brlcad | (not implying anything, just noticed) :) |
| 02:24.28 | Gnurdux | a smaller feature set i could handle |
| 02:24.34 | Gnurdux | orange, where do I get it? |
| 02:24.38 | *** join/#bzflag cosmos_ (n=cosmos@valentino.hepcat.org) |
| 02:24.46 | orange | brlcad: I can easily clean if you need me to... please let me know |
| 02:24.56 | orange | Gnurdux: I think it's in cvs |
| 02:24.59 | brlcad | nah, it's all find |
| 02:25.00 | Gnurdux | orange, i could use nagware on my server |
| 02:25.02 | Gnurdux | orange, which CVS? |
| 02:25.03 | brlcad | s/find/fine |
| 02:25.09 | orange | 2.0 branch, I'm sure |
| 02:25.11 | Gnurdux | ah |
| 02:25.12 | Gnurdux | nagware |
| 02:25.15 | Gnurdux | there it is |
| 02:25.15 | orange | though I think he keeps it working in head too |
| 02:25.24 | orange | it already has the config file reading part |
| 02:25.27 | orange | if you want to steal it |
| 02:25.36 | bryjen | ~bzpastebin |
| 02:25.38 | ibot | rumour has it, bzpastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel, and it archives too. - try http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/ |
| 02:25.48 | orange | bryjen: ok, I get the hint ;-) |
| 02:25.58 | Gnurdux | orange, why dont you get menotume to make it? |
| 02:26.07 | orange | Gnurdux: do you think I haven't tried?!? |
| 02:26.13 | Gnurdux | ... |
| 02:26.31 | brlcad | bryjen: you win a prize too |
| 02:26.31 | orange | menotume is pretty busy |
| 02:26.33 | Gnurdux | except for my plugin, which is awesome in my opinion |
| 02:26.38 | Gnurdux | but useless for silvercat |
| 02:26.50 | EbErT | i'll ask around |
| 02:27.01 | orange | bryjen: hehe |
| 02:27.16 | Gnurdux | orange, my plugin is for variable themes :) |
| 02:27.18 | orange | ask menotume nicely, and maybe he'll find the time |
| 02:27.19 | bryjen | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/47549 |
| 02:27.36 | Gnurdux | http://wwwf.centos.org/127_story.html?storyid=127 you all should read that |
| 02:27.48 | bryjen | rgb=0x0 looks bad |
| 02:28.03 | orange | Gnurdux: what are themes? |
| 02:28.08 | Gnurdux | orange, variable themes |
| 02:28.13 | bryjen | possibly from http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag/.message/1118ac |
| 02:28.13 | Gnurdux | it cant save to file yet |
| 02:28.26 | EbErT | like changing textures? |
| 02:28.32 | Gnurdux | but you could do like: /set _skyColor green, /set _mirror purple, set _rainType frog, /theme save frog |
| 02:28.35 | Gnurdux | then, /reset * |
| 02:28.41 | Gnurdux | and later, you could do /theme load frog |
| 02:28.49 | Gnurdux | and it would load all of those variable changes |
| 02:29.01 | EbErT | i like to just replace all my textures with ones i create so it looks different |
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| 02:29.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 02:29.27 | Gnurdux | orange, so as you can useless except for fooling around :) |
| 02:29.43 | Gnurdux | i can show you on my server if you want |
| 02:29.59 | orange | Gnurdux: any variables? |
| 02:30.04 | orange | if so, it might be quite useful |
| 02:30.11 | Gnurdux | what do you mean variables? |
| 02:30.26 | orange | like _skyColor is just a variable, or whatever it is called |
| 02:30.32 | orange | but if you could also set like _tankSpeed |
| 02:30.32 | Gnurdux | those are bzdb vars |
| 02:30.37 | Gnurdux | it supports ALL of them |
| 02:30.41 | Gnurdux | it saves the hwole bzdb |
| 02:30.41 | orange | vars are variables, yes? :-) |
| 02:30.45 | Gnurdux | yep |
| 02:31.00 | Gnurdux | it saves the entire bzdb |
| 02:31.12 | orange | cool, well, I think that could be interesting |
| 02:31.18 | Gnurdux | wanna see it? |
| 02:31.19 | EbErT | cool, so u can have a downloaded version of how everything is set |
| 02:31.29 | Gnurdux | orange, only problem is that it cant save to file yet |
| 02:31.34 | orange | I can't go see it now, sorry |
| 02:31.38 | orange | but I get the idea |
| 02:31.38 | Gnurdux | once it can, i will release it to the public |
| 02:33.28 | Gnurdux | but orange silvercat couldnt really use it could it? |
| 02:33.50 | orange | hmmm, I can't think of a reason right now |
| 02:33.58 | Gnurdux | its mostly for my server |
| 02:34.18 | Gnurdux | cause me and some other people are always changing around the theme, and its nice to be able to save them |
| 02:34.25 | orange | yeah |
| 02:34.46 | Gnurdux | one issue though is with fast tank themes when you load a slower theme it autokicks everyone |
| 02:35.09 | Gnurdux | so you have to manually lower it like halfway in between first |
| 02:35.25 | orange | heh, nice |
| 02:35.53 | Gnurdux | its like "Autokick: Tank is moving too fast" |
| 02:36.04 | Gnurdux | the server SHOULD be smart enough to know when the vars change, but nope |
| 02:36.15 | EbErT | someone should make a super awesome set of themes to download and stick right in your resource package of bz |
| 02:36.16 | Gnurdux | that happens with manual changes too though |
| 02:36.21 | EbErT | like "skins" |
| 02:36.31 | Gnurdux | EbErT, themes are server side not client side |
| 02:36.42 | Gnurdux | and i was planning to store all of a servers themes in one big file |
| 02:36.44 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: use speedtol then |
| 02:36.59 | EbErT | ok textures then |
| 02:36.59 | Gnurdux | i have an old version where it loaded them from seperate files |
| 02:37.05 | Gnurdux | where you had to make them yourself |
| 02:37.23 | Gnurdux | EbErT, themes are for things like skyColor, mirror, etcetera |
| 02:37.41 | Gnurdux | like theres been a blood theme on my server: red ground, red sky, red rain |
| 02:37.42 | EbErT | you can't change skycolor client-side? |
| 02:37.52 | Gnurdux | you cant have client side plugins |
| 02:38.01 | Gnurdux | yet |
| 02:38.02 | orange | Gnurdux: use separate files |
| 02:38.07 | Gnurdux | orange: why? |
| 02:38.13 | Gnurdux | my old version used seperate files |
| 02:38.17 | Gnurdux | but it didnt have /theme save |
| 02:38.18 | orange | so you could share them easily |
| 02:38.29 | orange | like "hey, send me that blood theme" |
| 02:38.30 | Gnurdux | orange, but its harder to code, for thigns like /theme list |
| 02:38.36 | Gnurdux | and /theme save |
| 02:38.40 | EbErT | i'm just talking about ways to make bz look different clientside |
| 02:38.46 | Gnurdux | and it saves all variables |
| 02:38.48 | EbErT | replacing the textures |
| 02:38.54 | orange | Gnurdux: look at the code for the replay stuff |
| 02:38.57 | orange | it uses separate files |
| 02:38.59 | Gnurdux | including tankSpeed |
| 02:39.07 | Gnurdux | what does replay do? |
| 02:39.23 | blast007 | it saves replays of the game, which can be played back |
| 02:39.27 | Gnurdux | and what does it use seperate files for? |
| 02:39.30 | blast007 | the code is in BZFS |
| 02:39.50 | orange | each 'replay set' is a separate file |
| 02:39.51 | EbErT | we use replay on norang to look for cheaters when we aren't there |
| 02:39.58 | EbErT | or can't watch the whole time then |
| 02:40.02 | Gnurdux | the reason seperate files would complicate theming is that currently themes are all stored in mem |
| 02:40.21 | Gnurdux | so that would be useless if they were seperate files |
| 02:40.30 | orange | well, you wouldn't need to |
| 02:40.35 | orange | save them in memory at all |
| 02:40.36 | Gnurdux | also, i dont want to give everyone with setVar rights the ability to save files on my comp |
| 02:40.39 | blast007 | could make a theme directory, and set that in the conf |
| 02:40.50 | blast007 | then list the directory, and enable reading of each file |
| 02:40.50 | Gnurdux | blast007, i have an old version that sort of does that |
| 02:40.53 | orange | blast007: yes |
| 02:40.53 | Gnurdux | but its really lame |
| 02:40.56 | orange | blast007: exactly |
| 02:40.58 | Gnurdux | it doesnt use directory listing |
| 02:41.05 | Gnurdux | you have to make an index file for the themes |
| 02:41.09 | Gnurdux | and the directory name is fixed |
| 02:41.20 | blast007 | should be a way to list the directory |
| 02:41.20 | Gnurdux | and it doesnt let you save, you have to make them in an editor |
| 02:41.25 | EbErT | put in a disco floor with flashing lights |
| 02:41.28 | Gnurdux | blast007, a cross-platform way? |
| 02:41.38 | blast007 | Gnurdux: there's always #ifdef stuff :) |
| 02:41.41 | orange | Gnurdux: look at the code for the replay stuff |
| 02:41.45 | orange | it does it |
| 02:41.48 | blast007 | right |
| 02:41.50 | Gnurdux | themes have to be in themes/ |
| 02:41.51 | orange | saves it to a file, lists files, loads files |
| 02:41.57 | orange | uses a configurable directory |
| 02:42.02 | orange | make it configurable |
| 02:42.04 | blast007 | so read the code about the replay stuff |
| 02:42.06 | orange | copy code |
| 02:42.09 | Gnurdux | orange, i could make import and export |
| 02:42.17 | Gnurdux | /theme import and /theme export |
| 02:42.25 | Gnurdux | which would save and write to files |
| 02:42.30 | Gnurdux | and load from them |
| 02:42.42 | orange | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:42.55 | Gnurdux | currently its exactly like that |
| 02:42.57 | orange | very simple, code is already written |
| 02:43.00 | Gnurdux | but it doesnt use files |
| 02:43.09 | blast007 | right, make it use files :) |
| 02:43.11 | Gnurdux | and it also has /theme delete |
| 02:43.28 | Gnurdux | and one file would be better except for the exchange thing |
| 02:43.32 | EbErT | bye all, thx for listening to my comments |
| 02:43.32 | Gnurdux | you know what else i could do? |
| 02:43.38 | blast007 | one file is not better |
| 02:43.44 | *** part/#bzflag EbErT (n=edwardhu@168.16.136.171) |
| 02:43.53 | Gnurdux | i could make it so that a server can "steal" other servers themes |
| 02:44.04 | Gnurdux | like /theme steal gnurdux.homelinux.net blood |
| 02:44.04 | orange | keep it simple |
| 02:44.06 | Gnurdux | or whatever |
| 02:44.11 | blast007 | seperate files could already do that |
| 02:44.18 | blast007 | you could have them share the theme directory |
| 02:44.21 | orange | if you use separate files, you can easily share them between servers running on the same machine |
| 02:44.22 | blast007 | do a /theme list |
| 02:44.25 | orange | blast007: yep :-) |
| 02:44.26 | blast007 | and see all of them |
| 02:44.29 | Gnurdux | orange, true |
| 02:44.35 | Gnurdux | thats a really good point |
| 02:44.47 | Gnurdux | then i should throw away my current code and start from the crap one :( |
| 02:45.49 | *** join/#bzflag tokimi (n=9399956c@zeebrothers.net) |
| 02:45.52 | Gnurdux | well if someoen is interested in helping me make it support multiple files go ahead |
| 02:46.03 | Gnurdux | cause im not sure quite how |
| 02:46.08 | *** part/#bzflag tokimi (n=9399956c@zeebrothers.net) |
| 02:46.24 | Gnurdux | though you say its in the replay code |
| 02:46.53 | Gnurdux | the one thing is, sharing themes between servers isnt necesarily a good idea |
| 02:47.02 | Gnurdux | unless server have the same set of defaults |
| 02:49.01 | orange | still, I can't think of a better way to save than individual files for this |
| 02:49.14 | Gnurdux | i was thinkign havign 1 big huge file |
| 02:49.25 | Gnurdux | and use it sort of like the userdb |
| 02:49.32 | Gnurdux | save it whenever modified |
| 02:49.46 | Gnurdux | orange, i can show you the old theming |
| 02:50.09 | Gnurdux | 1 file per theme, but really badly done |
| 02:50.35 | Gnurdux | gnurdux.homelinux.net:5160 |
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| 03:00.24 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeff@pool-71-109-230-30.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:00.45 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, the dmg is in the beta.bzflag.bz web dir |
| 03:00.57 | JeffM2501 | has the image and the extra stuff I was going to include |
| 03:02.38 | bryjen | JeffM2501: i think the patch you merged about effect coloring has a flaw that's causing segfault |
| 03:02.49 | JeffM2501 | really? |
| 03:02.57 | JeffM2501 | I tested it out on windows and it was fine |
| 03:03.05 | JeffM2501 | if you want to pull it that's fine |
| 03:03.15 | JeffM2501 | I only added it cus it seemed low impact |
| 03:04.07 | bryjen | in playing.cxx & SegmentedShotStrategy.cxx addFooEffect is called with what used to be team = 0, now its the float* rgb = 0, bang |
| 03:04.27 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't call getColor? |
| 03:05.37 | bryjen | they're for GM puff and the rico thingy |
| 03:05.47 | JeffM2501 | let me look |
| 03:06.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's just wrong |
| 03:07.29 | JeffM2501 | they don't need color anyway |
| 03:07.30 | JeffM2501 | let me fix |
| 03:09.42 | JeffM2501 | you continue to amaze me as to how good a tester you are :) |
| 03:10.23 | bryjen | heh. when every rico causes a crash, fire up gdb :) |
| 03:10.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah I was at work when I did it, so it was just testing on a default server |
| 03:11.55 | JeffM2501 | I'm rebuilding now |
| 03:12.00 | JeffM2501 | to make sure I got all the places |
| 03:14.11 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (4 files): |
| 03:14.11 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: don't use colors for the effects that set there own color |
| 03:14.11 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: don't send 0 in for a color on stuff, it's just not good |
| 03:14.19 | JeffM2501 | that should do ya |
| 03:16.13 | JeffM2501 | went on the #1 server as observer with full effects, didn't crash |
| 03:17.24 | bryjen | yup. bullets bounce, missles puff |
| 03:17.29 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 03:17.53 | JeffM2501 | shoulda made color be a class, so C++ could type check it |
| 03:17.58 | JeffM2501 | but that's a lot more work |
| 03:18.30 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 03:18.34 | JeffM2501 | what's bad about it? |
| 03:19.27 | bryjen | my server message gets send, but also "warning: there was a problem reading /path/to/that/file" |
| 03:20.06 | JeffM2501 | what is a textchunkmanager suposed to do? |
| 03:20.55 | bryjen | handle chunks of text, like the srvmsg, admsg, help messages... |
| 03:21.24 | JeffM2501 | they need management? |
| 03:21.30 | JeffM2501 | like break em up? |
| 03:22.34 | bryjen | read 'em from file, pack 'em into a string vector with reasonable line length and # of lines |
| 03:22.40 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 03:26.18 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:27.36 | bryjen | ahh? |
| 03:27.45 | JeffM2501 | ahh! |
| 03:27.56 | bryjen | ooh |
| 03:28.24 | brlcad | eep |
| 03:28.29 | JeffM2501 | umm |
| 03:29.47 | brlcad | but but.. i like it |
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| 03:36.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orange] by ChanServ |
| 03:41.01 | learner | bryjen, that's pretty peculiar |
| 03:41.16 | learner | should only happen when fail() returns true which should only happen for non-eof failures |
| 03:41.28 | learner | (on an ifstream) |
| 03:43.37 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: was that the last line? |
| 03:43.46 | learner | give that a try.. |
| 03:46.55 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: consolidate test |
| 03:50.48 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: er, be sure to close the file when we're done |
| 03:51.29 | bryjen | nope |
| 03:53.51 | bryjen | would a really short files with no newline be a problem? |
| 03:54.14 | learner | not even one newline? |
| 03:54.41 | bryjen | none |
| 03:54.44 | learner | "maybe".. but even that should work |
| 03:55.32 | learner | hmm.. maybe getline() is setting a fail state if eof is reached before a single newline |
| 03:55.38 | learner | that'd be silly |
| 03:55.39 | learner | but maybe |
| 03:56.38 | bryjen | no, i added a second line (with a \n at the end of both). still does it |
| 03:56.42 | bryjen | :( |
| 03:58.11 | learner | they're short so bufsize shouldn't be involved.. |
| 03:58.39 | learner | oooh, heh |
| 03:58.44 | learner | typo |
| 03:59.23 | learner | er.. or not |
| 04:03.13 | learner | when you put a second line, was the error after the second line or did it only print the first or no lines except the WARNING one? |
| 04:04.36 | bryjen | after the second line |
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| 04:26.22 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: put in some debug printing for bryjen to test, trying to determine why getline() is setting a fail state. |
| 04:27.04 | bryjen | testing for !good() instead of fail() still does it. bad() is ok |
| 04:29.15 | learner | !good() isn't the opposite of bad() |
| 04:30.11 | bryjen | warning: fail and eof on a getline? (gcount == 0) |
| 04:31.38 | learner | hrmph, ok |
| 04:31.43 | learner | i think I have a fix then |
| 04:32.07 | bryjen | getline setting fail if you're already at eof? |
| 04:32.36 | learner | no, we weren't at eof before the getline |
| 04:33.11 | learner | i.e. we are exactly before eof, so next read results in eof, and 0 chars are read |
| 04:33.15 | learner | so it sets a fail |
| 04:33.40 | bryjen | picky |
| 04:33.43 | learner | easy enough to make work knowing that |
| 04:43.56 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: this should hopefully do the trick. peek at the next character in the stream, if it's an EOF then we are done. otherwise getline sets a fail state since it reads zero characters. |
| 04:45.05 | learner | if you would give that a try bryjen.. please |
| 04:46.17 | learner | also a second test with a file that has one line longer than 4k chars if you don't mind.. |
| 04:46.37 | bryjen | char_traits' undeclared |
| 04:46.42 | learner | bah! |
| 04:47.07 | learner | std::char_traits |
| 04:48.14 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextChunkManager.cxx: bah, std::char_traits.. |
| 04:52.36 | bryjen | no problem reading, short lines 1 & 2 print, then the warning about long line 3, but no long line 3 or short line 4 |
| 04:53.14 | learner | right, that was intentional |
| 04:53.28 | learner | to halt on the first overly long line |
| 04:54.25 | learner | would take a few more lines to still display the portion of the long line that was read, but requires adding that null at msgLen |
| 04:55.20 | learner | intentionally doesn't continue as well so that an op has an inclination as to where the line is |
| 04:56.18 | learner | could probably just print Long line on line XXX since we know it, but the main point was the line count trimming, not line length |
| 04:57.33 | bryjen | 4k is pretty big anyway. unless your whole file is one line and you're expecting bz to wrap it |
| 04:57.50 | learner | yeah |
| 04:58.22 | learner | more than likely someone will feed a binary file of some sort by mistake or like you said.. expect some sort of novel wrapping |
| 04:58.32 | learner | thought about implementing it but then I thought.. why |
| 04:59.43 | bryjen | eh, it'd probly be a few pages in the message console -- not a good idea |
| 04:59.48 | learner | thanks for testing it through there.. glad I didn't have to go set up a server config just for that |
| 04:59.58 | learner | exactly |
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| 05:16.05 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 05:20.09 | learner | blast007, should also add RandomSpawnPolicy.h and RandomSpawnPolicy.cxx to the build |
| 05:20.34 | learner | or just wait until the code is modded so that you have to.. just a heads up |
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| 06:08.12 | mejobloggs | is my ban for saying snigger lifted yet? |
| 06:08.16 | mejobloggs | silvercat server |
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| 06:18.01 | spooch | Hi |
| 06:18.17 | spooch | I have a problem running bzflag with Xorg 7.0 |
| 06:18.33 | spooch | Since Upgrade there is following message: |
| 06:18.53 | spooch | $ bzflag |
| 06:18.53 | spooch | Could not set Video Mode: Couldn't find matching GLX visual. |
| 06:18.53 | spooch | Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed) |
| 06:18.53 | spooch | rath@localhost ~/Veccioni $ |
| 06:19.06 | spooch | Whats wrong here? |
| 06:19.29 | spooch | Is this solvable for 7.0 or do i have to do a Xorg downgrade? |
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| 06:29.21 | blast007 | spooch: what video card? an nvidia? |
| 06:29.31 | spooch | yes |
| 06:29.41 | spooch | with the commercial driver |
| 06:30.00 | blast007 | did you redo the drivers after the X.org upgrade? |
| 06:30.00 | spooch | media-video/nvidia-kernel |
| 06:30.00 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.00 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.01 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.01 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.06 | spooch | jep |
| 06:30.18 | spooch | xorg runs + kde 3.5.1 :-) |
| 06:30.28 | spooch | media-video/nvidia-glx |
| 06:30.28 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.28 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.28 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.28 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.54 | spooch | FIrst i forgot the glx-update |
| 06:31.13 | spooch | but after the refresh the Xorg-system runs fine here |
| 06:31.28 | spooch | at the moment i try the cvs version of bzflag (2.1.6) |
| 06:31.39 | blast007 | might want to check a glxinfo or verify the default bpp is 16 or 32 in your xorg.conf |
| 06:31.54 | spooch | blast007: oh, good idea! :-) |
| 06:31.55 | blast007 | 2.1.6 is HEAD, and not compatible with the current code |
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| 06:32.10 | blast007 | ~bzcvs |
| 06:32.14 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
| 06:32.21 | blast007 | notice the -r v2_0branch |
| 06:32.28 | spooch | ah |
| 06:32.30 | blast007 | that will give you 2.0.x code |
| 06:32.42 | spooch | you recommend to take this branch ? |
| 06:32.50 | blast007 | yeah |
| 06:33.06 | blast007 | 2.1 is quite broken in many ways, and nobody plays it right now |
| 06:33.17 | blast007 | it's the development version that will become 2.2 |
| 06:33.36 | spooch | ah, the well known numbering scheme :-) |
| 06:36.06 | spooch | (II) Module ramdac: vendor="X.Org Foundation" |
| 06:36.06 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:36.06 | spooch | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:36.06 | spooch | (--) Depth 24 pixmap format is 32 bpp |
| 06:36.06 | spooch | (II) do I need RAC? No, I don't. |
| 06:36.48 | spooch | # glxinfo |
| 06:36.48 | spooch | name of display: :0.0 |
| 06:36.48 | spooch | Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual |
| 06:37.02 | blast007 | verify that the GLX module is being loaded |
| 06:37.26 | spooch | (II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "1280x1024" |
| 06:37.26 | spooch | (II) Loading extension NV-GLX |
| 06:37.26 | spooch | (II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA 3D Acceleration Architecture Initialized |
| 06:37.26 | spooch | (II) NVIDIA(0): Using the NVIDIA 2D acceleration architecture |
| 06:37.26 | spooch | (==) NVIDIA(0): Backing store disabled |
| 06:37.27 | spooch | (==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse enabled |
| 06:37.49 | spooch | thats ok? |
| 06:38.31 | blast007 | not really sure |
| 06:38.53 | blast007 | I've only done one install, and never really looked at the messages :) |
| 06:39.14 | blast007 | manual install too, with the nvidia script |
| 06:39.29 | spooch | mompl, did find sth. in google ... |
| 06:39.52 | blast007 | I just know that I had to manually edit the config to use 16 or 32 bit, and load GLX |
| 06:41.35 | spooch | ok |
| 06:41.35 | blast007 | (I was using 6629 drivers, since it was an old Vanta) |
| 06:41.43 | spooch | I have to restart X, brb |
| 06:41.56 | blast007 | k |
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| 06:52.41 | spooch | re |
| 06:52.43 | spooch | :-)) |
| 06:52.58 | spooch | bzflag runs again .. |
| 06:53.07 | blast007 | k |
| 06:53.35 | spooch | blast007: the solution was to switch the driver manually from xorg-glx to nvidia-glx .. |
| 06:53.41 | blast007 | ah |
| 06:53.45 | spooch | blast007: tfh! |
| 06:53.57 | blast007 | I also found there's a nvidia-xconfig command |
| 06:54.21 | spooch | i took the eselect opengl ... command |
| 06:54.50 | blast007 | anyway, glad it works now :) |
| 06:55.20 | spooch | eselect opengl set nvidia |
| 06:55.28 | spooch | yeah |
| 06:55.44 | spooch | blast007: some little 1vs1 game? ;-) |
| 06:56.14 | blast007 | things to do :) |
| 06:56.21 | blast007 | sry |
| 06:56.34 | spooch | blast007: np |
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| 06:58.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 07:04.05 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03blast007 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/win32/VC71/bzfs.vcproj: Add RandomSpawnPolicy files |
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| 07:41.27 | LePoulpe303 | Hi all : |
| 07:41.38 | LePoulpe303 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:57.47 | stahlsau | hi LePoulpe303 ;) |
| 07:58.33 | stahlsau | still couldn'T get wxgtk to do what i want, so i couldn't test bzmanager... |
| 07:58.39 | stahlsau | but i'm working on it |
| 08:14.30 | LePoulpe303 | stahlsau: lol don't do too much |
| 08:14.51 | stahlsau | aw well..i hate when something doesn'T work |
| 08:18.25 | stahlsau | hehe..i think i've got it: the "soname" of expat changed (whatever that is), which caused fontconfig=>pango=>gtk+=>wxGTK not to compile... |
| 08:37.37 | LePoulpe303 | stahlsau: hurgl |
| 08:38.40 | LePoulpe303 | anyone has tested l4m3r's new game mode ? |
| 08:40.04 | stahlsau | no..do you have a server where it's running? |
| 08:41.39 | LePoulpe303 | stahlsau: in a post on bb l4m3r explain he puts it on its server |
| 08:41.58 | stahlsau | yeah, but it was down all the time ;) |
| 08:47.48 | LePoulpe303 | stahlsau: yeah ; thaht's why i ask if a lucky guy had time to test it ;) |
| 08:48.06 | LePoulpe303 | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7453&highlight=l4m3r |
| 08:48.14 | LePoulpe303 | it really seems interesting |
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| 09:24.05 | Mr_Molez | is there any way to make bzflag playable on onboard/shared graphics ? |
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| 09:45.01 | LePoulpe303 | \o NTH |
| 09:45.28 | NTH | morning LePoulpe |
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| 12:56.40 | dystopianray | are there known issues with i915 graphics? |
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| 13:58.13 | menotume | ~wake cvs |
| 13:58.14 | ibot | cvs: GOOD MORNING!!! |
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| 15:08.30 | Mr_Molez | MadRush-: how did it work out ? |
| 15:20.17 | menotume | Are we supposed to be getting "libpng warnings" when starting up the client ? |
| 15:20.47 | menotume | (v2 branch) |
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| 15:29.49 | brlcad | menotume: iirc, trepan said that there is #define that can be set to turn the feature off causing the warnings |
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| 16:44.13 | blast007 | menotume: it's possible to use SDL_Image instead of libpng to avoid the warnings |
| 16:44.26 | blast007 | might be a configure option |
| 16:44.55 | trepan | blast007: what do you think SDL_image uses? |
| 16:46.41 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 16:46.43 | JeffM2501 | magic |
| 16:47.53 | blast007 | ah, undef HAVE_SDL_IMAGE |
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| 16:55.31 | blast007 | is dev CVS down? |
| 16:55.37 | JeffM2501 | so apearntly from all the feedback, the big problems with the last beta I posted are "it takes too long to download" and "why don't you make it for mac" |
| 16:55.45 | blast007 | hehe |
| 16:56.16 | JeffM2501 | I'm tempted to start a closed beta program for 2.1 |
| 16:56.19 | JeffM2501 | well not closed |
| 16:56.23 | JeffM2501 | just not posted on the fourms |
| 16:56.31 | JeffM2501 | like maybe a mailing list where you have to opt in |
| 16:57.35 | JeffM2501 | then we can do a mass mailing to the list for each build |
| 16:57.40 | JeffM2501 | and use the list for bug reports |
| 16:57.41 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 16:57.51 | JeffM2501 | maybe I'm just talkin outa my butt |
| 16:58.20 | JeffM2501 | well also in 2.1 we can use the new download notificatiion system |
| 16:58.59 | Mr_Molez | Would it not be ok to just put the beta up on the download mirror (so you actually have to know what your doing to find it) |
| 16:59.16 | JeffM2501 | I sugested that |
| 16:59.22 | Mr_Molez | :) |
| 16:59.23 | JeffM2501 | but once it goes on SF you can never take it down |
| 16:59.28 | Mr_Molez | ah |
| 16:59.39 | JeffM2501 | and it was argued that it would add many "unneeded" versions to SF |
| 16:59.43 | JeffM2501 | and I can understand that |
| 16:59.57 | JeffM2501 | probably just move it all to beta.bzflag.bz |
| 17:00.01 | JeffM2501 | and make a real beta site |
| 17:00.09 | JeffM2501 | have links to the downlaods |
| 17:00.10 | JeffM2501 | the list |
| 17:00.16 | Mr_Molez | sounds good |
| 17:00.21 | JeffM2501 | maybe automatly post the changelog |
| 17:01.18 | Mr_Molez | more work for you though ;) |
| 17:01.26 | JeffM2501 | just some onetime setup |
| 17:01.30 | JeffM2501 | so not that bad |
| 17:01.57 | JeffM2501 | it should be able to be automated rather easaly |
| 17:02.04 | JeffM2501 | then it's actualy easyer then it si now |
| 17:02.23 | JeffM2501 | I'd like each beta to be a full test of the build system, with packages for each system we do final builds on |
| 17:02.28 | JeffM2501 | like linux and mac |
| 17:03.05 | JeffM2501 | but then that's probably my flawed capitalist comercial software background talking |
| 17:03.24 | Mr_Molez | Why, what is wrong with that ? |
| 17:03.54 | JeffM2501 | cus it's not "open" |
| 17:04.03 | JeffM2501 | and therefore must be evil right? ;) |
| 17:04.09 | Mr_Molez | Well the source is still there |
| 17:04.14 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 17:04.23 | JeffM2501 | it's just many open source developers perfer to work on there own |
| 17:04.27 | JeffM2501 | not realy colaborating |
| 17:04.43 | JeffM2501 | personaly I think we can run this thing like a comercial project, but keep it all open |
| 17:04.50 | JeffM2501 | and get better results |
| 17:04.55 | JeffM2501 | and a better product |
| 17:05.16 | JeffM2501 | but some see that as too much like a dictatorship |
| 17:06.06 | Mr_Molez | Well I see nothing wrong with making a binary every so often for testing purposes |
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| 17:07.05 | JeffM2501 | I think it's a good test of the full build system |
| 17:08.17 | JeffM2501 | personaly I'd like to have milestones and stuff too |
| 17:08.17 | JeffM2501 | like that mozilla project |
| 17:08.23 | Mr_Molez | set targets ? |
| 17:08.38 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:08.41 | JeffM2501 | goals |
| 17:09.33 | Mr_Molez | As you said, people like to work on their own :) |
| 17:10.47 | JBdiGriz | Annual performance reviews, that will solve it. |
| 17:12.51 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:13.10 | JeffM2501 | I think we can come up with a compormise |
| 17:13.16 | JeffM2501 | get everyone to get a list of goals together |
| 17:13.23 | JeffM2501 | and let people "sign up" for them |
| 17:13.34 | Tupone | I'm against compormise |
| 17:13.44 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:13.49 | Tupone | :) |
| 17:14.12 | Mr_Molez | I think what would be best is to set everyone targets. If anyone falls behind they lose part of their rights/power to me ;) |
| 17:14.14 | JeffM2501 | then the project manager can just make sure that people have the time to work on the stuff |
| 17:14.35 | JeffM2501 | if they don't then he/she sees if any other dev wants to help out.. stuff like that |
| 17:14.50 | JeffM2501 | what rights? what power? |
| 17:15.22 | JeffM2501 | "finish your feature.. or we give gnardux your IM and e-mail addresses...." |
| 17:15.40 | Mr_Molez | lmao ! |
| 17:16.00 | JBdiGriz | the Munchkin bait of the month award. |
| 17:16.29 | JeffM2501 | but really I think if we did it as an opt in system it could work, and let people do things on there own time.. they'd just have to comunicate how they are doing on stuff more then they do now. |
| 17:17.38 | JeffM2501 | that's why I'm allways interested in how other open source projects do things |
| 17:18.43 | JeffM2501 | saturos is looking at making a new logo graphic for the game for 2.0.6 |
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| 17:24.32 | Mr_Molez | Has anyone shown any interest in making voice support ? |
| 17:25.09 | JeffM2501 | like recording and transmition and output? |
| 17:25.23 | Mr_Molez | yes |
| 17:25.40 | JeffM2501 | it's not worth it.. there are many other 3rd party apps that do it well enough |
| 17:25.47 | JeffM2501 | teamspeak and the like |
| 17:25.56 | Mr_Molez | ok |
| 17:26.25 | Mr_Molez | It would probably only get abused anyway :) |
| 17:26.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:27.15 | JeffM2501 | it's allmost beter to make people who want to use it set up a 3rd party thing, that way it's only used for those that need/want it |
| 17:27.35 | JeffM2501 | and it dosn't slow down game server bandwtih and stuff |
| 17:27.43 | JeffM2501 | just the pipes between the users |
| 17:29.22 | JeffM2501 | if there was to be goals for 2.2 I'd like to see 2 things, authortive server and a polish pass on the game interface to make it more intuitive |
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| 17:30.04 | Mr_Molez | Care to elaborate ? |
| 17:30.33 | Tupone | I want to move all flag handling server side, put a better time sync between client and server, and ... don't remember what else |
| 17:34.47 | JeffM2501 | what he said is what I mean by authortive server :) |
| 17:35.03 | JeffM2501 | for the pollish I mean make the menus more intiutive |
| 17:35.32 | JeffM2501 | so new players can find out how to play easyer |
| 17:35.37 | JeffM2501 | and the interface is more consitent |
| 17:36.07 | JeffM2501 | stuff like tht |
| 17:36.30 | JeffM2501 | like how come we have a menu arrow but you can't click on any of the menus with the mouse? |
| 17:37.22 | JeffM2501 | and since some servers require auth, the game should tell people how to identify |
| 17:37.35 | JeffM2501 | and they should be flaged in the list as reqiring it |
| 17:37.45 | JeffM2501 | little stuff like that |
| 17:37.50 | JeffM2501 | it burns new players |
| 17:38.10 | JeffM2501 | part of me is also pondering removing windows server support |
| 17:38.35 | JeffM2501 | just to cut down on the number of munchkin servers |
| 17:38.41 | Mr_Molez | I noticed something for the first time yesterday.. On the menu it shows how many players are on the server. Then below it shows how many players can go a particular colour/observer . Is that new or is it just me not paying attention |
| 17:38.54 | Mr_Molez | lmao |
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| 17:39.08 | Mr_Molez | I have no objections |
| 17:39.10 | JeffM2501 | I think we have had player counts for a while |
| 17:39.25 | JeffM2501 | the entire server list is unintiitive |
| 17:39.28 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: lol are you really serious about that ? |
| 17:39.37 | JeffM2501 | the windows server |
| 17:39.39 | blast007 | I think even 1.7 has player counts |
| 17:39.41 | Mr_Molez | yes |
| 17:39.42 | JeffM2501 | 75% yeah |
| 17:40.03 | Mr_Molez | nice :) |
| 17:40.39 | Mr_Molez | 1.7 wow.. I can't belive I have been playing so long and never noticed it |
| 17:41.50 | orange | JeffM2501: another thing that I think would help players... especially new ones... is popup message windows that have to be acknowledged |
| 17:42.17 | Mr_Molez | orange: oh yes |
| 17:42.28 | orange | *ding* "You have shot a teammate. Please be careful not to do this...blah blah" "Click OK to dismiss" "[X] do not show this message again" |
| 17:44.02 | orange | messages from admins (like sendhelp) could be popped up and you would be forced to read them... or at least to dismiss the box. |
| 17:45.03 | orange | "You tried to join the game as [red,green,auto] team, but the game was full, so you were joined as observer. Please wait until a spot opens up before trying to rejoin. [X] do not show this message again" |
| 17:46.56 | ToughShooter | Umm, does someone know how I can see all opened files in OS X? |
| 17:47.01 | blast007 | or while they are observer, give them a list of teams they can switch to |
| 17:47.11 | orange | ToughShooter: do you have lsof |
| 17:47.48 | ToughShooter | orange: yes, tnx |
| 17:48.29 | orange | ToughShooter: in return, you have to say something nice about perl :-) |
| 17:50.15 | ToughShooter | Eeek, ok after I finished fixing my problem |
| 17:52.09 | JeffM2501 | orange, yes, like a dialog |
| 17:52.09 | JeffM2501 | I think the game needs some sort of tutorial as well |
| 17:52.31 | JeffM2501 | then have a setting that lets them turn it off when they get better |
| 17:53.13 | JeffM2501 | I've allways liked the idea of storing a "rank" with the global player data, and make noobs play a couple games on just some noob servers first to learn the game, and that unlocks the rest of the servers |
| 17:53.30 | JeffM2501 | but then that's from subspace.. worked rather well tho |
| 17:54.04 | Mr_Molez | make them take an exam before they are allowed to play :) |
| 17:54.11 | JeffM2501 | sort of |
| 17:54.14 | JeffM2501 | not realy that harsh |
| 17:54.15 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: actually that aint bad.. americas army does that |
| 17:54.22 | JeffM2501 | but make sure they have experienced at least some of the game |
| 17:54.28 | JeffM2501 | many games do it |
| 17:56.58 | JeffM2501 | it lets the noobs have a learning type atmosphere |
| 17:57.08 | JeffM2501 | kinda keeps the noobs out of the long timers hair |
| 17:57.27 | JeffM2501 | and when you do go from a noob to a regular server you at least know how the game works |
| 17:57.41 | JeffM2501 | we could do something as simple as make em play an hour on the noob servers |
| 17:57.48 | JeffM2501 | then they unlock the other ones |
| 17:57.54 | JeffM2501 | also gives em a sense of acomplishment |
| 17:58.14 | JeffM2501 | transition would be interesting |
| 17:58.27 | JeffM2501 | we'd probalby have to mark all existing players as "not n00b" |
| 17:59.23 | JeffM2501 | subspace had a set of "alpha zone" servers that all new users went too, you had to play for like 10 hours or get 500 points and you could then go into the real zones |
| 17:59.50 | ToughShooter | That would also slow down making new accounts for the banned users :) |
| 18:00.02 | Mr_Molez | aww lol |
| 18:00.21 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 18:00.22 | Mr_Molez | I think the banned users would just look at my.bzflag.org ;) |
| 18:00.30 | JeffM2501 | and it would make people have an atachment to there username |
| 18:01.11 | ToughShooter | heh, redsoxfan90, marines, HappyT, S0xs |
| 18:01.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:01.44 | JeffM2501 | we could then come up with an alias system that let a user register a fixed number of callsigns tied to the same account |
| 18:01.49 | JeffM2501 | that would be best |
| 18:02.03 | JeffM2501 | kinda like character slots in the MMORPGs |
| 18:02.33 | ToughShooter | Would that be beyond the capabilities of PHPBB? |
| 18:02.42 | JeffM2501 | as it sits now yes |
| 18:02.47 | blast007 | I'd rather not rely on phpBB for stuff like that |
| 18:02.48 | JeffM2501 | it would not be that hard of a mod tho |
| 18:02.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:03.01 | JeffM2501 | the user management system needs to be seperated |
| 18:03.04 | blast007 | just makes upgrades even harder than it is now |
| 18:03.21 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to see the user management moved into it's own thing managed by my.bzflag.org |
| 18:03.31 | JeffM2501 | and the froums just pull from it's user db |
| 18:03.36 | blast007 | right |
| 18:03.36 | ToughShooter | Yes, but all the users would need to be imported to something else then |
| 18:03.41 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 18:03.46 | JeffM2501 | there woudl be a transition |
| 18:03.50 | JeffM2501 | but I think it's dooable |
| 18:04.05 | JeffM2501 | we have the database and the sources on how to read the existing user data |
| 18:04.10 | ToughShooter | Now you sound like Steve Jobs ;) |
| 18:04.23 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it woudl affect users at all |
| 18:04.32 | JeffM2501 | we would not loose any data |
| 18:04.37 | JeffM2501 | just some retraining |
| 18:04.43 | JeffM2501 | on how to manage your user data |
| 18:04.53 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 18:05.17 | JeffM2501 | and then new mods to the froums to have it remove it's user management functions, and pull from the other database system |
| 18:05.31 | JeffM2501 | I know all the tech is there, I just personaly don't have the php skill to do it |
| 18:05.37 | ToughShooter | bzls should be rewritten, I think..it looks like it has really bad code |
| 18:05.43 | JeffM2501 | it is |
| 18:05.45 | blast007 | ToughShooter: yeah |
| 18:05.53 | blast007 | I get lost reading it |
| 18:05.57 | JeffM2501 | I think it should be inegrated into the new user management system |
| 18:06.20 | JeffM2501 | ever see phpnuke? |
| 18:06.26 | ToughShooter | I know it is because I can program in PHP..I like the Haskell style more but PHP is ok |
| 18:06.52 | blast007 | I've used phpnuke/postnuke before |
| 18:06.57 | blast007 | complete CMS systems |
| 18:06.59 | ToughShooter | Only heard of security issues about phpnuke |
| 18:07.06 | JeffM2501 | I like how it does it's user management |
| 18:07.13 | JeffM2501 | and how the froum just pulls from it |
| 18:07.16 | blast007 | well, it's a big project, so there are bound to be some flaws |
| 18:07.25 | JeffM2501 | how all the difrent features pull from it |
| 18:07.31 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:07.35 | blast007 | that's sorta how I want it |
| 18:07.36 | JeffM2501 | I'm just giving an example of how it works |
| 18:07.38 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:07.43 | ToughShooter | Sites that use it show up every once in a while with something like "This site has been hacked" |
| 18:07.51 | blast007 | base the whole website system around a core set of tables |
| 18:07.59 | JeffM2501 | I don't mean to use the actual phpnuke code |
| 18:08.03 | JeffM2501 | just it as a refrence |
| 18:08.09 | blast007 | then we can have registration on the main home page :) |
| 18:08.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:08.17 | blast007 | and stuff like that |
| 18:08.19 | JeffM2501 | and use those users for news |
| 18:08.22 | JeffM2501 | and comments |
| 18:08.23 | blast007 | tie in the news system to users |
| 18:08.23 | JeffM2501 | and all that |
| 18:08.41 | JeffM2501 | and build a server registraton system, and automated group management |
| 18:08.48 | blast007 | yup |
| 18:08.55 | JeffM2501 | now to just get somone to make it :) |
| 18:09.25 | ToughShooter | Make independent mirrors full featured mirrors available in case one list server is down |
| 18:09.43 | JeffM2501 | well the list system should be spread over more then one computer |
| 18:09.46 | JeffM2501 | using multiple DNS |
| 18:09.53 | JeffM2501 | that would be part of the user management system |
| 18:10.03 | JeffM2501 | that part has been discussed |
| 18:10.05 | blast007 | JeffM2501: I had started a new database design, but it was assuming a non-phpBB forum |
| 18:10.16 | JeffM2501 | we arn't tied to phpbb |
| 18:10.19 | blast007 | right |
| 18:10.21 | JeffM2501 | just so long as we can move the data |
| 18:10.26 | blast007 | I wanted to do all custom stuff |
| 18:10.37 | JeffM2501 | phpbb was just better then the old easyboard :) |
| 18:10.48 | blast007 | so that the forum had knowledge of stuff like who's playing in the game, and multiple-callsigns |
| 18:10.58 | JeffM2501 | custom stuff is fine, as long as we have a team to maintain it |
| 18:11.06 | ToughShooter | Costum is only good as long there is someone who is familiar with the code |
| 18:11.15 | blast007 | tibia lets you pick which username from your account that you want to use when posting on their forum |
| 18:11.19 | JeffM2501 | well techincaly our entire game is "custom" |
| 18:11.43 | blast007 | ToughShooter: good documentation can aid towards that |
| 18:11.44 | JeffM2501 | acutaly I'd like to force one "main name" that is used for logins and posting |
| 18:11.52 | JeffM2501 | then let them have a number of in game callsigns |
| 18:11.55 | blast007 | tibia uses account numbers |
| 18:11.56 | blast007 | :) |
| 18:12.08 | JeffM2501 | that way when you see somone in the forums it's allways the same person with the same name |
| 18:12.10 | ToughShooter | Imagine I would write something ugly in Haskell, no one could understand it and then I loose interest in the game |
| 18:12.13 | blast007 | then they also have "premium accounts" |
| 18:12.25 | JeffM2501 | like mebers kinda thing? |
| 18:12.30 | JeffM2501 | members |
| 18:12.38 | blast007 | paid stuff to get access to new areas |
| 18:12.41 | blast007 | and new features |
| 18:12.42 | ToughShooter | Then you end up with code that works but no one understands ;) |
| 18:12.43 | JeffM2501 | I'be pondered a bzflag membership thing |
| 18:12.48 | JeffM2501 | that goes to donations |
| 18:12.54 | JeffM2501 | but opens up a couple members only servers |
| 18:13.09 | JeffM2501 | but it would be a tight rope to walk |
| 18:13.21 | blast007 | right |
| 18:13.34 | ToughShooter | I don't think paid servers are a good concept |
| 18:13.40 | JeffM2501 | they can be |
| 18:13.40 | *** join/#bzflag yannis (n=3e2e010e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:13.42 | JeffM2501 | not as a default |
| 18:13.48 | JeffM2501 | but I think they can work for some groups |
| 18:13.56 | ToughShooter | When I pay for something I would expect some kind of service |
| 18:14.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah, ecactyly |
| 18:14.13 | JeffM2501 | the only way for it to work is inf the pay servers are better then the non pay ones |
| 18:14.21 | JeffM2501 | faster bandwith, better admins |
| 18:14.24 | JeffM2501 | stuff like that |
| 18:14.35 | ToughShooter | if there would be not more service than on unpaid servers I would be angry |
| 18:14.39 | JeffM2501 | if somone can provide that level of service then I think it can work |
| 18:14.55 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, there are pay websites? |
| 18:15.33 | CBG | JeffM2501: sure, the type Mr_Molez visits are mostly pay sites... |
| 18:15.38 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:15.40 | Mr_Molez | the idea of the game is to have fun.. not worry about paying for stuff .. |
| 18:15.53 | JeffM2501 | some people are willing to pay to have fun |
| 18:15.54 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: Better admins? :o |
| 18:16.00 | JeffM2501 | look at the people who pay to play WoW |
| 18:16.02 | JeffM2501 | and love it |
| 18:16.08 | Mr_Molez | I don't think any server owners should get any money.. the bzflag devs sure |
| 18:16.16 | JeffM2501 | but I agree, it's not something that should take away from free servers |
| 18:16.32 | bryjen | you'd pay not to worry about other thing while having fun. ie Is the server up? How's the lag? Are there admins always around? |
| 18:16.40 | JeffM2501 | if the server owner can use money to provide better sercice, why not? |
| 18:16.43 | JeffM2501 | bandwith costs money |
| 18:16.48 | blast007 | and reduces cheaters ;) |
| 18:16.54 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:17.01 | JeffM2501 | your paying for a good fast server |
| 18:17.08 | Mr_Molez | there are already huge amounts of low lag great moderated servers |
| 18:17.09 | JeffM2501 | I don't think anyone will pay much tho |
| 18:17.14 | JeffM2501 | no more then like $5 a month |
| 18:17.24 | ToughShooter | heh, I remember the issues I had with EWE |
| 18:17.31 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, if there are then the pay servers won't make money and will go away |
| 18:17.34 | bryjen | sha. it'd take a hard-core !@#$ to pay to be a cheater ;) |
| 18:17.54 | ToughShooter | There are no official game servers so the connection is good enough was EWE's reply basicaly |
| 18:18.01 | CBG | I wouldn't pay £5/month unless it was GamesUninited that started charging that. :/ |
| 18:18.06 | CBG | GamesUnited* |
| 18:18.06 | Mr_Molez | but its segregation from people who will/can pay from those who wont/cant |
| 18:18.15 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, as ToughShooter said, it'd have to have some level of serivice, if the same thing can be goten for free, it won't work |
| 18:18.27 | blast007 | Mr_Molez: there's what, 170 servers right now? |
| 18:18.37 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 18:18.46 | blast007 | heh |
| 18:18.52 | ToughShooter | Most servers are empty (and a lot are from norang ;)) |
| 18:19.13 | blast007 | I lose track because I filter out the lame servers from my list ;) |
| 18:19.30 | blast007 | (ones run by Gnurdux and the like) |
| 18:19.47 | JeffM2501 | 95% of those are unadmined, or admined but ban happy munchkins |
| 18:19.55 | CBG | blast007: Oh, how do you do that? :) |
| 18:20.19 | blast007 | CBG: wrote a PHP script that reads the list and filters it |
| 18:20.34 | Mr_Molez | and who will decide what servers get paid ??? no doubt it will be the server owns that go on irc and talk to the devs.. what about the 1's that dont ? |
| 18:20.44 | blast007 | runs locally, so I just forward my client to use the local list |
| 18:20.50 | blast007 | sorta like a list proxy :) |
| 18:20.54 | CBG | And you're keeping that all for yourself, blast007? That's so selfish!! :P |
| 18:21.03 | blast007 | it also stores my passwords, so I don't have to type them every time |
| 18:21.09 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, the server owners who decide to charge |
| 18:21.14 | CBG | Neato, blast007. |
| 18:21.17 | ToughShooter | CBG: That would be easy to do |
| 18:21.19 | Mr_Molez | ah |
| 18:21.20 | JeffM2501 | I'm not saying make it part of the "officall' thing |
| 18:21.25 | CBG | ToughShooter: not to me... :/ |
| 18:21.29 | JeffM2501 | but a server owner RIGHT NOW could charge money to play |
| 18:21.34 | Mr_Molez | sorry misunderstoof :_ |
| 18:21.44 | Mr_Molez | -f +d :) |
| 18:22.02 | JeffM2501 | I'm not saying like we dole out donation money to servers |
| 18:22.06 | ToughShooter | CBG: If you don't understand how a thing works then you may better don't run it |
| 18:22.09 | JeffM2501 | no, it would be a server owner doing his own thing |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM2501 | brb |
| 18:22.35 | CBG | ToughShooter: I don't understand how my OS works, but I use it. I don't understand how bzflag works, but I play it. |
| 18:22.47 | blast007 | CBG: it uses cURL in the script to talk to the list, just like BZ does |
| 18:22.59 | blast007 | basically fowards GET and POST data to the list |
| 18:23.24 | blast007 | then I go line by line and determine if a server should be displayed |
| 18:23.36 | JeffM2501 | now for an offical donation thing, I dono |
| 18:23.46 | JeffM2501 | like I say, it would be a very tight rope |
| 18:23.58 | JeffM2501 | we don't realy have any incentive to dontate right now |
| 18:24.03 | JeffM2501 | so people arn't |
| 18:24.12 | *** join/#bzflag cks (n=a1fd9a82@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:24.15 | Mr_Molez | i can imagine dialup users creating servers .. making it look popular .. get peoples money then banning them from the server :P |
| 18:24.31 | CBG | If every player paid $0.20 a month for use of global identification, etc... $2.40/user/year ... |
| 18:24.51 | CBG | ToughShooter: o.O |
| 18:24.52 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, that is called a scam, that can happen in any medium |
| 18:25.07 | JeffM2501 | we can't protect everyone from all uses of our software |
| 18:25.09 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: yeh i got one this morning :) |
| 18:25.20 | JeffM2501 | just like web and mailservers can't |
| 18:25.34 | JeffM2501 | we can prevent them from using our list server that's about it |
| 18:26.07 | cks | anybody here uses mac to play bzflag |
| 18:26.16 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it would be bad to have a donation incentive for an "offical members only" server |
| 18:26.24 | JeffM2501 | maybe where we tested new stuff |
| 18:26.32 | Mr_Molez | :) |
| 18:26.32 | JeffM2501 | just a little ative "thanks" for the donators |
| 18:26.34 | cks | i have problem in running bzflag on mac.. i needsome help |
| 18:26.43 | CBG | cks: sure, whats the problem? |
| 18:27.37 | CBG | JeffM2501: donations go towards the servers, hosting..? |
| 18:27.37 | JeffM2501 | I mean SF does a thing where donation members get support priority |
| 18:27.55 | cks | i can't run it.. when i click on it, the screen goes black.. and after few seconds crashes.. it goes away |
| 18:28.07 | JeffM2501 | CBG, hosting the public services, list server, dns, forum. etc... |
| 18:28.20 | JeffM2501 | freenode does the cloack thing |
| 18:28.22 | CBG | Ok, I see. |
| 18:28.28 | cks | do i need to do any setting modification |
| 18:28.36 | ToughShooter | cks: run it from terminal and tell us what it says (if it is bigger than 3 lines use pastebin) |
| 18:28.42 | JeffM2501 | maybe it'd be a start to have a donation membership for bzflag, and members get a logo in the froums, and a mark in game |
| 18:29.16 | Mr_Molez | sounds good |
| 18:29.36 | Mr_Molez | but for that would be good to develop tank theming **coughs** |
| 18:29.40 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to get the my.bzflag.org moved to bzflag.bz first tho |
| 18:29.49 | JeffM2501 | tank themeing? |
| 18:29.50 | CBG | JeffM2501: You could certainly add a "Store" to the forums so that you have to pay (minimal ammounts, of course) for an avatar, custom title, to be able to use PMs, etc... |
| 18:30.04 | Mr_Molez | your own colours, logo etc for your tank (that others can see in the game) |
| 18:30.06 | JeffM2501 | CBG, too complex |
| 18:30.09 | ToughShooter | Or make the emai field going away and automatically enter team info on league servers and always something like "supporter" |
| 18:30.20 | JeffM2501 | for a good donation system you want recuring income, not one shot bake sales |
| 18:30.36 | orange | mmm, chocolate chip cookies |
| 18:30.39 | JeffM2501 | bandwith costs every month |
| 18:30.55 | CBG | JeffM2501: Hmm, You can already do it with "ForumCash" (earned when the user makes posts...), maybe changing that to real cash from PayPal or similar sites would be a pita. |
| 18:30.56 | JeffM2501 | SF does memberships |
| 18:31.04 | JeffM2501 | freedone does drives |
| 18:31.20 | cks | ToughShooter:ok. how do i run it from terminal |
| 18:31.22 | JeffM2501 | I think freenode has to do a lot more work ( look at the bugging they do when it's donation time ) |
| 18:31.35 | Mr_Molez | heh |
| 18:31.41 | JeffM2501 | CBG, I mean too complex for the end user |
| 18:31.51 | CBG | Ah, right. |
| 18:31.58 | JeffM2501 | a steady income stream is best |
| 18:32.02 | JeffM2501 | and simplest to maintain |
| 18:32.26 | JeffM2501 | then just make a couple levels of donation and give difrent marks for it |
| 18:32.32 | JeffM2501 | like gold ,sliver, bronze |
| 18:32.33 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 18:32.47 | JeffM2501 | make the minimum be something like $4 a month |
| 18:32.50 | JeffM2501 | something reasonable |
| 18:32.51 | ToughShooter | cks: Open "Terminal.app", type "open " (notice the space at the end) and then drag the bzflag symbol into the window. Type enter to confirm |
| 18:33.18 | JeffM2501 | $4 a month from 100 people realy takes a chunk out of the operating costs |
| 18:33.19 | ToughShooter | Oh and don't type the apostrophes ;) |
| 18:33.33 | JeffM2501 | that coudl easaly pay for a server just for the froums and list |
| 18:33.40 | Mr_Molez | that would pay the operating costs, you could like off 300 people :| |
| 18:33.43 | CBG | This $4 is just for a member-only server, not for use of the game in general, right? |
| 18:33.52 | Mr_Molez | like = live |
| 18:33.55 | JeffM2501 | proably have engouh left over for a couple fast game servers |
| 18:34.18 | JeffM2501 | CBG, no, I mean use the money to pay for the publis serves |
| 18:34.22 | JeffM2501 | it's donation |
| 18:34.24 | JeffM2501 | to the project |
| 18:34.37 | CBG | Ok, and it's not a requirement at all? |
| 18:34.42 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:34.44 | JeffM2501 | not at all |
| 18:35.01 | JeffM2501 | right now the public services are donated by Nidhoggr |
| 18:35.07 | CBG | I get £1 a week, total. I can't afford $4 a month for bz. :( |
| 18:35.11 | JeffM2501 | and they are slow since they share bandwith with secreplace |
| 18:35.18 | JeffM2501 | CBG, then don't donate |
| 18:35.23 | ToughShooter | That could be dangerous if it is really required as it drives the newbies away (and every game needs newbies) |
| 18:35.28 | orange | CBG: that's plenty :-) |
| 18:35.40 | JeffM2501 | I've never said anything about making it manditory |
| 18:35.42 | menotume | ~wake cvs |
| 18:35.43 | ibot | cvs: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 18:35.44 | cks | ToughShooter: Samething happens, nothing on the terminal |
| 18:35.48 | CBG | Right, that's ok then. |
| 18:35.57 | JeffM2501 | I am taking about an optional member based donation system like SF has |
| 18:36.05 | JeffM2501 | and like freenode has |
| 18:36.08 | CBG | I have donated, and I will again, but not at $48/yeah. |
| 18:36.11 | JeffM2501 | as a way to get better services |
| 18:36.25 | JeffM2501 | many others could pay that easy CBG |
| 18:36.32 | JeffM2501 | or would be willing to pay more |
| 18:36.41 | JeffM2501 | I'm just giving examples of what we could do |
| 18:36.48 | JeffM2501 | not much |
| 18:36.57 | CBG | Yeah, those that earn that much. But there are those that would NOT be willing to... |
| 18:37.00 | JeffM2501 | but it's shared with froums and beta downloads |
| 18:37.11 | JeffM2501 | on the same machine that runs secretplacee |
| 18:37.13 | *** part/#bzflag MadRush- (n=mrblue@c-69-142-185-225.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.16 | JeffM2501 | so it all adds up |
| 18:37.46 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: Umm, secretplace looks rather empty nowadays |
| 18:37.58 | JeffM2501 | maybe but that machien is flooded often |
| 18:38.02 | ToughShooter | cks: I don't know what to do then :( |
| 18:38.06 | JeffM2501 | there are plans to move our stuff to bzflag.bz |
| 18:38.14 | JeffM2501 | and keep the SP system as a backup server |
| 18:38.20 | JeffM2501 | that should help some |
| 18:38.59 | JeffM2501 | also if we had more donation cash, we could maybe put bounties on features that everyone wants |
| 18:39.05 | JeffM2501 | for developer motivation |
| 18:39.12 | Mr_Molez | ohhh ohhhh |
| 18:39.17 | JeffM2501 | or hold contests with prizes and stuff |
| 18:39.24 | ToughShooter | How much bandwidth does the listserver eat? |
| 18:39.25 | Mr_Molez | pfft I offer people money for stuff and people never do it :p |
| 18:39.27 | JeffM2501 | it just opens up a lot more |
| 18:39.33 | blast007 | $1 on a karma system ;) |
| 18:39.40 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, it's hard to say |
| 18:39.47 | JeffM2501 | it uses a lot of dtabase conections |
| 18:39.53 | cks | ToughShooter: thanks anyway |
| 18:39.55 | JeffM2501 | it's just a web page |
| 18:39.59 | JeffM2501 | so it dosn't send much |
| 18:40.06 | *** part/#bzflag cks (n=a1fd9a82@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:40.24 | JeffM2501 | and no we don't need another host for it |
| 18:40.28 | JeffM2501 | like I say we have plans to move it |
| 18:40.35 | Mr_Molez | see doesn't work :P |
| 18:40.57 | JeffM2501 | cus geting the money out of you would be dificut at best |
| 18:41.10 | blast007 | pay up front :) |
| 18:41.13 | JeffM2501 | if it was part of an oficial system it could be better seen |
| 18:41.23 | Mr_Molez | ah :P |
| 18:41.25 | JeffM2501 | and I don't think many people care about you Mr_Molez ;) |
| 18:41.30 | Mr_Molez | aww :( |
| 18:41.39 | JeffM2501 | you reap what you sow |
| 18:42.01 | ToughShooter | Most american shops don't support the most used payment method in my country |
| 18:42.23 | JeffM2501 | chicken? |
| 18:42.27 | blast007 | lol |
| 18:42.40 | JeffM2501 | for big purchaes you have to go up to cow |
| 18:42.43 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 18:48.04 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 18:48.57 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: are you married ? |
| 18:49.03 | JeffM2501 | not anymore |
| 18:49.09 | JeffM2501 | not for a long time |
| 18:49.17 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: turned the other way ? |
| 18:49.22 | JeffM2501 | umm no |
| 18:49.27 | Mr_Molez | ok :) |
| 18:49.34 | JeffM2501 | just didn't work out between us |
| 18:49.38 | JeffM2501 | I got maried very young |
| 18:49.41 | JeffM2501 | too young |
| 18:49.46 | Mr_Molez | ah |
| 18:49.48 | Mr_Molez | any kids |
| 18:49.52 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:49.56 | Mr_Molez | oh |
| 18:50.22 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: can i ask your age :P |
| 18:50.27 | JeffM2501 | 33 |
| 18:50.38 | Mr_Molez | how old were you when you got married ? |
| 18:50.59 | JeffM2501 | 22 |
| 18:51.23 | Mr_Molez | 22 aint so bad to get married |
| 18:51.29 | JeffM2501 | it is |
| 18:51.31 | JeffM2501 | when your not ready |
| 18:51.49 | JeffM2501 | shoulda waited till I was 25-26 |
| 18:52.08 | Mr_Molez | Well you get another chance now :) |
| 18:52.15 | JeffM2501 | but oh well.. you live and learn |
| 18:52.15 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:53.11 | JeffM2501 | had much better times after the divorce anyway |
| 19:04.03 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B02066.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:04.30 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 19:18.40 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: You tinkered with effects renderer, did you? |
| 19:18.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 19:18.55 | JeffM2501 | I applied a patch |
| 19:19.19 | ToughShooter | This happens when one gets shot for me: http://pastebin.com/631296 |
| 19:19.31 | JeffM2501 | how old is your code? |
| 19:19.40 | JeffM2501 | there was a bug with the inital commit |
| 19:19.45 | ToughShooter | 10AM today |
| 19:19.45 | JeffM2501 | and I added a fix last night |
| 19:20.04 | JeffM2501 | hmm porter effect |
| 19:20.06 | JeffM2501 | let me kook |
| 19:20.09 | JeffM2501 | look |
| 19:20.18 | ToughShooter | I have GMT+1 |
| 19:20.26 | JeffM2501 | could be same problem |
| 19:21.04 | JeffM2501 | I can't get cvs it seems |
| 19:21.29 | blast007 | JeffM2501: are we going to make pdcurses the default for win32 builds? |
| 19:21.41 | JeffM2501 | it has been |
| 19:21.42 | JeffM2501 | so yes |
| 19:21.56 | JeffM2501 | I fixed it so it uses the correct lib names |
| 19:22.11 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: It seems it is the latest copy because I still have the newest version |
| 19:22.11 | blast007 | well, just wondering, because the Release_pdcurses doesn't link right now due to missing the glew lib |
| 19:22.18 | JeffM2501 | it defines have_CURSES and includes the lib |
| 19:22.34 | JeffM2501 | curses is part of the normal release build |
| 19:22.38 | blast007 | ah, ok |
| 19:22.39 | JeffM2501 | you don't need the special one |
| 19:22.42 | blast007 | so that's just left over |
| 19:22.47 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, probably |
| 19:22.53 | JeffM2501 | I think I know what it is |
| 19:23.00 | JeffM2501 | blast007, you can remove that config if you want |
| 19:23.12 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, I'll fix it as soon as I can get from cvs |
| 19:23.30 | ToughShooter | ok |
| 19:24.04 | ToughShooter | For now I can't really play anyway because WindowServer keeps stealing my 70% CPU :/ |
| 19:24.09 | blast007 | yeah, I'll probably remove that whenever CVS is back up |
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| 19:49.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportyGal] by ChanServ |
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| 20:09.09 | Nidhoggr | the secretplace issue isn't bandwidth... it is machine resources. that box is just a bit overworked. |
| 20:09.46 | Nidhoggr | my bandwidth usage on my 100mb connection is barely over 1mbps average |
| 20:11.23 | Nidhoggr | hrm. and for some reason, bzfs is taking up a lot of resources right now. not sure if it has anything to do with it having been up for 792 hours. |
| 20:11.30 | CBG | Either way, you need some cash, :) |
| 20:12.33 | Nidhoggr | I never turn away a donation. :) |
| 20:13.05 | Nidhoggr | I'd stick a second box in for just doing services if I had the extra box. |
| 20:13.37 | *** join/#bzflag Seltes (n=Seltes@ip68-110-225-234.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 20:13.56 | Seltes | hi |
| 20:13.59 | blast007 | hello |
| 20:14.13 | Seltes | I just started bzflag a couple of days ago |
| 20:14.47 | Seltes | I'm dying all the time, so I'm wondering if you guys can give me some tips |
| 20:14.53 | blast007 | dodge ;) |
| 20:15.04 | Seltes | by jumping? |
| 20:15.08 | Birdie | play on non jumping servers to learn to dodge |
| 20:15.11 | bryjen | by driving |
| 20:15.12 | blast007 | jumping usually leads to death |
| 20:15.17 | TheRedBaron | setles: fall in love with your radar |
| 20:15.20 | Seltes | that explains it |
| 20:15.28 | Seltes | thanks guys |
| 20:15.31 | blast007 | if you have the higher ground, you'll likely prevail over a lower tank |
| 20:15.38 | blast007 | stuff like that |
| 20:15.38 | TheRedBaron | ~lart blast |
| 20:15.41 | blast007 | hehe |
| 20:15.47 | Seltes | whats a good server for newbs? |
| 20:15.49 | TheRedBaron | we don't need campers |
| 20:15.53 | blast007 | what? nothing wrong with sitting on a building ;) |
| 20:16.50 | Seltes | is their a good server for newbs? |
| 20:17.10 | bryjen | secretplace is nice |
| 20:17.20 | Seltes | thanks |
| 20:17.43 | Seltes | any other things I should know about? |
| 20:18.14 | bryjen | you'll die alot at first. try not to get too worried about score, have fun and practice, you'll get better |
| 20:18.15 | TheRedBaron | seltes: secret place is noob friendly, because you have 10 shots |
| 20:18.31 | TheRedBaron | seltes, go to silvercat instead |
| 20:18.34 | Seltes | thanks everybody |
| 20:18.44 | Seltes | if you ever see me, my name is seltes |
| 20:19.14 | Seltes | Where should I go: secret place or silver cat? |
| 20:19.15 | TheRedBaron | Seltes, under options, make your radar bigger |
| 20:19.18 | TheRedBaron | Silvercat |
| 20:19.27 | TheRedBaron | learn to use your radar to dodge |
| 20:19.32 | Seltes | ok, thanks for all the help! |
| 20:19.38 | TheRedBaron | also use the shot-line option, and set it to leading, not lagging |
| 20:19.51 | Seltes | what does that do? |
| 20:20.18 | blast007 | there is a line on bullets on the radar, so leading makes the line go in front of the bullet |
| 20:20.26 | Seltes | ah |
| 20:20.27 | blast007 | you can use that line to determine if the bullet will hit you |
| 20:20.28 | TheRedBaron | blast, he beat me to it |
| 20:20.38 | bryjen | tweaks how the shots look on radar. TheRedBaron is very picky about his radar. |
| 20:20.45 | blast007 | ;) |
| 20:20.48 | Seltes | and should I use the keyboard or the mouse? |
| 20:20.52 | TheRedBaron | Mouse! |
| 20:21.00 | Seltes | why? |
| 20:21.03 | TheRedBaron | Bryjen: thanks for putting it nicely :) |
| 20:21.12 | TheRedBaron | Seltes: better and more accurate range of control |
| 20:21.18 | blast007 | mouse gives much more control and it also provides granularity for controlled jumps |
| 20:21.21 | Seltes | okay |
| 20:22.28 | Seltes | any other things I should do? |
| 20:23.15 | blast007 | practice, and find the playing style that works for you |
| 20:23.34 | TheRedBaron | Seltes: there are many many things that work, But it all depends on your playing style |
| 20:23.34 | blast007 | maybe watch other players play, by using observer |
| 20:23.52 | TheRedBaron | But the basics are, to use the radar for dodging, avoid jumping, and master the mouse |
| 20:24.17 | TheRedBaron | preferably also use the radar for aiming, but that can be tough to learn at first |
| 20:24.22 | Seltes | no wonder i've been losing, i've been using the keyboard and jumping the whole time! |
| 20:24.29 | blast007 | hehe |
| 20:24.41 | blast007 | some players are good with the keyboard |
| 20:24.50 | blast007 | just not me |
| 20:24.57 | Seltes | Should I be a rouge or on a team? |
| 20:25.01 | blast007 | depends |
| 20:25.01 | TheRedBaron | Seltes: you won't be good all of a sudden over night, but you'll get the hang of it |
| 20:25.13 | Seltes | Isn't that with everything? |
| 20:25.15 | TheRedBaron | Seltes, personal preference |
| 20:25.38 | Seltes | And is capture the flag easier than ffa? |
| 20:25.46 | blast007 | different |
| 20:26.00 | blast007 | ctf is about your team score |
| 20:26.12 | blast007 | FFA is about your personal score |
| 20:26.24 | Seltes | well, thanks you guys for everything! |
| 20:26.40 | Seltes | bye |
| 20:26.42 | blast007 | cya |
| 20:31.38 | JeffM2501 | man why is CVS still down? |
| 20:32.16 | blast007 | they had a hardware failure... |
| 20:32.22 | JeffM2501 | that sucks |
| 20:32.29 | blast007 | wonder if they have an ETA yet |
| 20:32.57 | JeffM2501 | see if we got enough cash from a donation membership then we could host our own VCS |
| 20:33.01 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 20:33.13 | blast007 | yeah :) |
| 20:33.22 | JeffM2501 | like subversion |
| 20:33.50 | JeffM2501 | wonder if there is anything that wil read cvs history and move it over to svn |
| 20:34.06 | orange | JeffM2501: yes |
| 20:34.14 | orange | works pretty well, but our project wasn't huge yet |
| 20:34.20 | orange | svn is great |
| 20:34.25 | JeffM2501 | I don't think bzflag is " huge" |
| 20:34.37 | orange | I'm sure it would work fine |
| 20:34.46 | JeffM2501 | even if we lost some data, it would be nice to keep some of the history |
| 20:34.47 | brlcad | like nightly test builds, code analysis, maybe valgrind status |
| 20:34.48 | orange | very easy to run, too |
| 20:34.48 | blast007 | http://cvs2svn.tigris.org/cvs2svn.html |
| 20:34.55 | brlcad | as well as the list server |
| 20:34.56 | JeffM2501 | sweet |
| 20:35.20 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you can move my.bzflag.org at any time |
| 20:36.08 | brlcad | bounties would be great -- personally wouldn't interest me, but I bet it would do great to motivate semi-invovled developers |
| 20:36.09 | JeffM2501 | I think that we should experiment with our own VCS with plugins first |
| 20:36.38 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, did you get that DMG I uploaded? |
| 20:42.16 | brlcad | Nidhoggr: I was also seeing really high cpu usage, the issue was tracked to server replay .. turn that off and it should settle back down |
| 20:45.05 | brlcad | we couldn't support our own vcs if we had a /.'ing |
| 20:45.42 | brlcad | blast007: sf.net provides svn now too with automatic project conversion |
| 20:46.01 | brlcad | JeffM2501: not yet |
| 20:46.43 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 20:46.48 | JeffM2501 | they do? |
| 20:46.55 | brlcad | yep, for over a month now |
| 20:46.55 | bryjen | would /.-ers be hitting cvs or just looking for a exe or rpm or whatever to download? |
| 20:46.57 | brlcad | just started |
| 20:47.10 | brlcad | bryjen: both, usage across the board spikes |
| 20:47.24 | JeffM2501 | well we could use our own dev cvs and sync with sf for "user cvs" |
| 20:47.29 | brlcad | that's one of the nice things we've never had to worry about |
| 20:47.42 | JeffM2501 | probably be harder to setup |
| 20:47.52 | JeffM2501 | wonder if we could convert to svn |
| 20:47.54 | brlcad | hmm, doable, but it would take a bit of work |
| 20:47.57 | bryjen | ah. i was thinking lemmings with short attention spans would prefer prebuild bins |
| 20:48.16 | JeffM2501 | not all /. people are lemmings |
| 20:48.26 | brlcad | we could convert to svn, it's just a checkbox and a button that needs clicking to convert |
| 20:48.45 | bryjen | :( |
| 20:48.49 | brlcad | but I'd personally like to see sf.net mature a little longer before clicking that button |
| 20:48.49 | JeffM2501 | wonder how the stability is on the sf svn servers |
| 20:48.55 | brlcad | that's what I mean |
| 20:49.21 | brlcad | give them time to sort out the system, let other projects be the guinea pigs |
| 20:49.28 | JeffM2501 | well it would defenatly be a good idea to move user management over to .bz |
| 20:49.40 | brlcad | yeah, that's an easy one |
| 20:49.40 | JeffM2501 | and get it split out of the froums |
| 20:49.51 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-241-119.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.56 | *** join/#bzflag zenzen (n=0c183c0c@zeebrothers.net) |
| 20:50.06 | JeffM2501 | if somone wants to write it I can tell them all the things I'd like to see |
| 20:50.07 | Gnurdux | no school tomorrow, but dont worry, Ill be at my fathers work |
| 20:50.19 | JeffM2501 | umm hell Gnurdux |
| 20:50.22 | JeffM2501 | hello |
| 20:50.23 | JeffM2501 | even |
| 20:50.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:50.33 | JeffM2501 | actualy both are valid :) |
| 20:50.34 | bryjen | nope. just hell. |
| 20:50.36 | Gnurdux | lol JeffM2501. what were you taking about writing? |
| 20:50.46 | JeffM2501 | I'm not going to write anything |
| 20:50.57 | Gnurdux | <JeffM2501> if somone wants to write it I can tell them all the things I'd like to see |
| 20:50.58 | TheRedBaron | speaking of .bz and the crash ;) |
| 20:50.59 | JeffM2501 | I have not the pallete for webwork |
| 20:51.19 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, guess ya shoulda been here an hour ago then |
| 20:51.35 | brlcad | Gnurdux: read it.. he's not talking about him writing anything |
| 20:51.46 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: the info/data for the shellshock website is still there, but the html coding is gone |
| 20:51.48 | TheRedBaron | which I understand |
| 20:51.50 | brlcad | webwork takes way too long |
| 20:52.13 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: yeah, I tried to get him to restore.. :/ |
| 20:52.18 | JeffM2501 | thankfully I understand what is possbile with webwork so I can help define the needs and goals |
| 20:52.27 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, it's not my cup of tea to write |
| 20:52.34 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, if i add a bzfs API function today is there time to put it in the release? |
| 20:52.40 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: you mean dutchrai? |
| 20:52.46 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: yes |
| 20:52.53 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, depends what it is.. the danger of breakage.. and when cvs comes back up |
| 20:52.57 | brlcad | I'd restore the site myself if I could get a tarball |
| 20:53.06 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather not put things in last min |
| 20:53.10 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: were you on the distribution list for what happened? |
| 20:53.19 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: yes I was |
| 20:53.27 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, no danger of breakage. I just want a bzfs API function to get the default for a variable, to use in my theme plugin |
| 20:53.32 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, is .bz capable of running maling lists? |
| 20:53.36 | TheRedBaron | I had to restart my servers thats all. |
| 20:53.37 | brlcad | sure |
| 20:53.50 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: that's good to know |
| 20:53.50 | TheRedBaron | restarting the website is something out of my expertise |
| 20:53.58 | JeffM2501 | I was thinking about for 2.1 having the beta be done via an opt in mailing list |
| 20:54.02 | brlcad | loosing shellshock was the worst damage imo |
| 20:54.05 | JeffM2501 | instead of posting on the froums |
| 20:54.32 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, there is allways posibilitys of breakage |
| 20:54.34 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: i hate to heap it on you, but I do agree :) |
| 20:54.46 | TheRedBaron | some data is still there |
| 20:54.47 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, it is very slight in this case |
| 20:54.53 | TheRedBaron | http://shellshock.bzflag.bz |
| 20:54.55 | brlcad | it's alright, it was a bonehead mistake |
| 20:54.57 | JeffM2501 | but again, it depends on the other things |
| 20:55.32 | brlcad | yeah, I know.. I've left it as is.. I caught the mistake mid-delete, which happened to be in shellshock |
| 20:55.49 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B03F15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:55.49 | TheRedBaron | but my main question is, and You may not be able to answer it, Is, "Can the site be reconstructed with the data that we have left/restored" |
| 20:56.03 | JeffM2501 | well all the shellshock data came from somewhere |
| 20:56.06 | JeffM2501 | didn't I used to host it? |
| 20:56.26 | brlcad | not really easily, getting dutchrai to provide it would be the easiest |
| 20:56.35 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: http://shellshock.bakadigital.com i think |
| 20:56.37 | brlcad | he has a local copy of the latest |
| 20:56.46 | JeffM2501 | well then I should have a copy of that then |
| 20:56.49 | brlcad | JeffM2501: yeah, for a while.. couple years ago |
| 20:56.51 | JeffM2501 | ether here or at home |
| 20:57.03 | brlcad | though he changed/updated it considerably since then |
| 20:57.10 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:57.13 | brlcad | that would have been all geared towards 1.7 |
| 20:57.23 | JeffM2501 | ahhh bad ol 1.7 |
| 20:57.27 | brlcad | he updated the look/feel too |
| 20:57.46 | brlcad | actually liked his old style a little better, it scaled |
| 20:57.47 | JeffM2501 | who he? |
| 20:58.13 | brlcad | dutchrai |
| 20:58.23 | JeffM2501 | I hosted it after he stoped it IIRC |
| 20:58.38 | JeffM2501 | after carnage or somone got it all |
| 20:58.49 | brlcad | he restarted on .bz a year or so later |
| 20:58.56 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:59.07 | JeffM2501 | well if you want me to look for anyting I may have let me know |
| 20:59.27 | brlcad | hey, if you have anything, I'll give it a try -- see how it looks |
| 20:59.42 | brlcad | if it's just a matter of config files and tutorials, that still better than the empty dirs now |
| 20:59.49 | brlcad | could be updated by somone |
| 21:00.17 | TheRedBaron | when I get the time, I'm going to try and learn how to be that someone |
| 21:00.49 | JeffM2501 | was probably on sasami at home |
| 21:01.02 | JeffM2501 | I am prety sure I backed all that up before I wiped the main drive |
| 21:01.07 | JeffM2501 | I'll check it when I get home |
| 21:01.22 | brlcad | wayback machine at least has a little, but not the whole site or the php that drove it |
| 21:01.33 | brlcad | http://web.archive.org/web/20050305182516/http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/index.html |
| 21:01.48 | JeffM2501 | and if it was on a sasami home dir then I still have that drive |
| 21:02.05 | brlcad | cool |
| 21:02.30 | brlcad | that would be nice.. could merge his layout with one I'd worked on and give .bz a facelift as a dev site |
| 21:02.56 | brlcad | or mirror for bzflag.org with a new look even |
| 21:03.14 | JeffM2501 | bzflag.org NEEDS a facelift |
| 21:03.19 | brlcad | no kidding |
| 21:03.25 | JeffM2501 | and an integrated user management system :) |
| 21:03.51 | brlcad | there's some good possibilities with something like drupal or plone |
| 21:04.28 | brlcad | configurable, could tie them into our own user system |
| 21:04.31 | brlcad | support plugins |
| 21:04.34 | JeffM2501 | we need to split out our user system |
| 21:04.49 | JeffM2501 | it can't be in the froums anymore |
| 21:04.51 | JeffM2501 | it's just too nasty |
| 21:07.46 | *** join/#bzflag wizatcomp (n=wizatcom@pool-71-161-44-10.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:09.04 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B03F6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:15.07 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, how does the whole thing work, with the tokens? how are the tokens verified, and how does it talk to the forum? |
| 21:15.23 | JeffM2501 | thats what the list server does |
| 21:15.47 | JeffM2501 | the list server uses the froum users for it's input |
| 21:25.51 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood (i=Johnq@JBAUMAN.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 21:26.55 | Birdie | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7512 |
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| 21:40.57 | bryjen | anyone read russian? |
| 21:42.13 | CBG | bryjen: sure, but I have no idea what any of it means. :) |
| 21:42.21 | Gnurdux | i can read most of the letters |
| 21:42.43 | TheRedBaron | I've read Fyodor Dostoyevsky |
| 21:43.05 | Gnurdux | but the only thing i know about russian is that most plurals are in -i or -? |
| 21:43.11 | Gnurdux | TheRedBaron, in russian? |
| 21:43.25 | TheRedBaron | english |
| 21:44.27 | TheRedBaron | hrm, re-reading bryjen, I Mis-interpreted it as "Anyone RED Russian" instead of "anyone REED russian" |
| 21:44.41 | Gnurdux | ahh |
| 21:45.02 | Gnurdux | im reading a polish novel right now. its the second in a trilogy, and its 2 volumes :O |
| 22:18.59 | brlcad | now that was funny |
| 22:19.24 | TheRedBaron | hrm? |
| 22:19.55 | orange | a little slow, was it? |
| 22:20.01 | brlcad | just a little.. |
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| 22:21.09 | brlcad | if the tank was scaled up 1000x, I could get about 1 fps with either 200k or 2.5M polys, I forget which |
| 22:21.46 | orange | hehe, sounds like fun :-) |
| 22:22.03 | orange | ok, gotta run |
| 22:22.27 | TheRedBaron | Ha, you can't fool me with that one orange |
| 22:22.43 | brlcad | scaled down to real size, I get about .0001 fps |
| 22:31.24 | JeffM2501 | does brlcad have polygon reduction tools? |
| 22:33.36 | brlcad | brl-cad does not |
| 22:34.44 | brlcad | our polygonal support is limited in many respected (no means to easily edit meshes) as we deal primarily with implicit models, primitives with CSG, etc |
| 22:35.33 | brlcad | we can go to polygon, and at various specifiable tolerances relatively easily enough, but manipulating them directly is not the primary way we do business |
| 22:36.44 | JeffM2501 | and your model was a prim model that was teselated? |
| 22:37.09 | brlcad | yes |
| 22:37.23 | JeffM2501 | so you couod have played with tolerances to lower the face count |
| 22:37.35 | JeffM2501 | tho tonlerances often won't combine prim edges and stuff |
| 22:37.58 | JeffM2501 | like our teselations will never break or change a surface edge boundry |
| 22:38.57 | brlcad | yeah, ours is similar, topology preserving altough we don't have the same concept of a surface edge boundary you have in a b-rep modeler |
| 22:39.23 | JeffM2501 | brep is only one of our methods |
| 22:39.26 | JeffM2501 | but yeah |
| 22:39.42 | brlcad | i mean we have it for our nurb primitives, and n-manifold geometry objects, but those are second-class |
| 22:39.43 | JeffM2501 | too bad the best reducers are not free :( |
| 22:40.49 | brlcad | mm.. that's a sweet renderer |
| 22:41.07 | JeffM2501 | it is |
| 22:41.10 | brlcad | met one of the devs a couple years ago.. lived/worked in hawaii |
| 22:41.33 | brlcad | he looked like a prototypical hawaiian surfer |
| 22:43.24 | brlcad | quiet long-blonde-hair'd geezer just chillin at siggraph for the week |
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| 22:47.37 | Gnurdux | what do i need to do to steal code from bzflag and put in my plugin? |
| 22:47.45 | Gnurdux | do i need to put a copyright message? |
| 22:50.24 | JeffM2501 | what code are you going to use? |
| 22:50.49 | Gnurdux | i want to steal some recording code for the theme plugin's file management |
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| 22:51.22 | JeffM2501 | tecincaly you have to include the source for what you used, and it's license |
| 22:51.28 | JeffM2501 | and it's copyright |
| 22:51.35 | Gnurdux | of course ill include the source |
| 22:51.49 | Gnurdux | ok so i need to make LICENSE and put the copyright message at the top? |
| 22:52.00 | Gnurdux | thanks |
| 22:52.32 | Gnurdux | /* bzflag -- can I change that one line? to bzflag theme plugin or something? |
| 22:53.00 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:53.12 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 22:53.17 | JeffM2501 | you can't misrepresent the source of the code |
| 22:53.30 | Gnurdux | im not sure is bzflag wants to be associated with my plugin, but oh well |
| 22:54.42 | JeffM2501 | it's not about our association but you following the license |
| 22:54.50 | Gnurdux | ok no prob |
| 22:54.59 | JeffM2501 | and basicly not stealing our code |
| 22:55.05 | JeffM2501 | but using it under the license |
| 22:55.21 | Gnurdux | i used the word steal figuratively |
| 22:56.41 | brlcad | i believe snarf is the technical term |
| 23:00.43 | JeffM2501 | I prefer "gank" |
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| 23:46.53 | aaronf0 | http://pastebin.com/631775 |
| 23:47.25 | aaronf0 | error compiling the latest cvs |
| 23:47.45 | JeffM2501 | did you rerun configure? |
| 23:47.56 | aaronf0 | yea |
| 23:48.03 | aaronf0 | i got this yesterday too |
| 23:48.14 | JeffM2501 | head or branch? |
| 23:48.55 | aaronf0 | branch |
| 23:48.57 | brlcad | you're on a mac arencha |
| 23:49.13 | JBdiGriz | Looks familiar, doesn't it? |
| 23:49.16 | aaronf0 | eh? |
| 23:49.56 | aaronf0 | a mac? im on linux |
| 23:49.56 | brlcad | i'll get that fixed in tonight if cvs comes back on-line today (which I somehow doubt) |
| 23:50.19 | JeffM2501 | j00 got no std::isnan |
| 23:50.38 | trepan | he did, but it got smashed :) |
| 23:50.53 | JeffM2501 | his nan kacks wang |
| 23:51.02 | aaronf0 | (did i come in in the middle of some conversation?) |
| 23:51.03 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: That's not really the problem. configure finds it, but it's not quite coded correctly in a couple of places. |
| 23:51.05 | JeffM2501 | lacls evem |
| 23:51.23 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 23:51.28 | JeffM2501 | so substandard isnan |
| 23:51.47 | JeffM2501 | he should be able to edit his config to fix it right/ |
| 23:51.51 | JBdiGriz | aaronf0: brlcad and I have been having this conversation for a couple of days. We haven't bothered the main group about it, since it didn't seem very pervasive. |
| 23:52.10 | brlcad | configure detects that std::isnan exists, so common.h attempts to create a macro called isnan that is just std::isnan if you have it |
| 23:52.30 | JBdiGriz | I was able to edit the files to get it to compile, but I haven't found a single config to modify which solves everything. |
| 23:52.58 | aaronf0 | (ahh) |
| 23:53.45 | JeffM2501 | guess windows just has isnan and it works |
| 23:54.19 | brlcad | nah, there's a similar isnan hack in there in the windows header that it's using ;) |
| 23:54.39 | JeffM2501 | I didn't see the term "nan" in my config at all |
| 23:54.41 | brlcad | all the platforms have _some_ form of isnan |
| 23:54.56 | JeffM2501 | or is it special cased in common? |
| 23:54.58 | brlcad | it's just whether they have std::isnan or a macro isnan |
| 23:55.09 | JBdiGriz | It was coded for windows originally. We just have to fix it so it works for the rest of the world, because those windows coders are so lazy. ;-) |
| 23:55.10 | brlcad | or both |
| 23:55.23 | JeffM2501 | what? dtr did it? |
| 23:55.28 | JeffM2501 | dtr be lazy? |
| 23:55.49 | JeffM2501 | cus who else uses the development platform of choice? ;) |
| 23:56.35 | brlcad | actually trepan added the isnan, that broke mac, I fixed 10.4, dtr fixed windows, that broke 10.3, I fixed 10.3, dtr fixed windows again, now it's broken on some 10.4 and linux again :) |
| 23:56.54 | JeffM2501 | so a normal feature then? :) |
| 23:57.01 | brlcad | viscious cycle |
| 23:57.26 | brlcad | one of these changes it should settle down to something that works everywhere |
| 23:57.49 | trepan | quite some time ago :) |
| 23:58.18 | JeffM2501 | ahh the joys of computer company competition :) |
| 23:58.55 | JeffM2501 | sweet |
| 23:59.09 | JBdiGriz | the sounds of shattering glass :-D |
| 23:59.11 | JeffM2501 | tho we keep geting harder to break |
| 23:59.46 | JBdiGriz | Not really, just do things on the edge of technology. |
| 23:59.47 | brlcad | isnan was fine for mac.. probably could have stopped there and just added a macro for windows to std::isnan like we have now |