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| 00:06.14 | *** part/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-12-192.paradise.net.nz) |
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| 00:29.01 | I_Died_Once | ~weather KSAV |
| 00:36.10 | I_Died_Once | ... |
| 00:50.48 | Grumbler | !weather 21619 |
| 00:50.50 | TheLastSpartan | Grumbler: The current temperature in Chester, Maryland (21619) is 87°F (7:54 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 74°F. Wind: SSW at 5 mph (7 km/h). Pressure: 29.92 in (1013 hPa). Visibility: 4.0 miles (6.4 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 16 |
| 00:55.53 | I_Died_Once | ... |
| 00:56.02 | I_Died_Once | !weather KSAV |
| 00:56.04 | TheLastSpartan | I_Died_Once: The current temperature in Savannah International, Georgia (31418) is 80°F (8:53 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 74°F. Pressure: 30.11 in (1019 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 16 |
| 00:56.08 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 00:56.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:56.19 | I_Died_Once | Shhh, Jeff is here |
| 00:59.13 | menotume | wb JeffM2501 |
| 00:59.23 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 01:06.14 | Grumbler | guess the move went well then |
| 01:12.58 | menotume | he has internet, that's all that counts, right ? |
| 01:13.37 | Grumbler | are you sure, he could be war-driving.....oooo thats a word i never thought i would use |
| 01:14.26 | menotume | ahhh |
| 01:15.27 | Grumbler | dude, they are stealing your internet man.....go kick their butt |
| 01:15.43 | menotume | hehe, my WAN has been turned off for quite a while |
| 01:18.39 | menotume | The recent arrest of a Florida man on charges of unauthorized use of a wireless network could set legal ground rules for open Wi-Fi access. |
| 01:18.43 | menotume | arrested ! |
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| 01:19.44 | *** part/#bzflag Fiendal (~chatzilla@dialup-4.129.80.169.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) |
| 01:20.30 | Grumbler | have to keep an eye on that one......along with the SCO stuff |
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| 01:20.37 | menotume | yep |
| 01:20.45 | menotume | http://news.com.com/FAQ+Wi-Fi+mooching+and+the+law/2100-7351_3-5778822.html?tag=nl |
| 01:21.40 | Grumbler | would be interestinig if there was a public website where you could sign up to track all the motions/filings for a particular case |
| 01:23.08 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~Death@adsl-70-247-47-30.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 01:23.10 | menotume | huh? local/state/federal govmnts communication woht each other ? |
| 01:24.13 | Grumbler | heh, no, but all the iniformationi has to be public electronic access somewhere, just come up with a front end to conglomerate t he stuff |
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| 01:24.55 | menotume | legal-google ! |
| 01:25.18 | Grumbler | ssshh.....it my idea, let me sell it to google :) |
| 01:25.27 | menotume | :) |
| 01:25.36 | Grumbler | i'll cut you in for a take |
| 01:25.43 | menotume | k |
| 01:25.52 | DTRemenak | heh |
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| 03:14.37 | shorty114 | ~x |
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| 03:46.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 04:06.48 | cosmos | hrm so whatever became of the ANTIBAN discussions/code in here :) |
| 04:12.53 | cosmos | that Wiccan numnuts is sure hopping mad on the forums for being banned at secretplace heh |
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| 04:16.49 | shorty114 | heh yeah |
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| 09:43.39 | CBG | only 38? where is everyone? |
| 09:46.12 | CBG | ~logs |
| 09:46.12 | ibot | rumour has it, logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 09:55.45 | CBG | lol.the stats are classic :D |
| 09:56.06 | CBG | "BenUrban talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 2 times! " for example :D |
| 09:56.16 | CBG | CBG has quite a potty mouth. 0.2% words were foul language. hehe |
| 09:56.38 | CBG | Wow: CBG spoke a total of 807 words! :O |
| 09:56.48 | jpa- | 38 is enough as long as sgk284 is one of them <3 |
| 09:57.01 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/RecordReplay.cxx: clean-up |
| 09:57.48 | CBG | lol jpa :) |
| 09:57.59 | CBG | ya know those CIA-3 messages... |
| 09:58.15 | CBG | are they directed To the person mention, or from them? |
| 09:58.43 | trepan | from them |
| 09:58.50 | CBG | Ok :) |
| 09:59.03 | jpa- | they are from the CVS-system |
| 09:59.24 | jpa- | so that when someone breaks the source, it tells what they broke ,) |
| 09:59.36 | CBG | hehe |
| 10:01.16 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (BUGS src/bzflag/playing.cxx): the initial flag states are there in replay, use 'em (close a bug) |
| 10:15.27 | *** join/#bzflag rj-away_ (~booto@rawmode.org) |
| 10:17.03 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: better function name |
| 10:20.02 | *** join/#bzflag Guest261 (~551400f9@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 10:20.05 | Guest261 | hello |
| 10:20.20 | Guest261 | anyone can help me to compile bzflag in linux? |
| 10:20.55 | Guest261 | when i do ./configure i get a list of options where "No bzflag client binary!" |
| 10:21.08 | Guest261 | the cause is that gl.h is not found but i have gl.h |
| 10:21.18 | Guest261 | and it's in the /usr/include/GL |
| 10:23.09 | Guest261 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:23.19 | trepan | check your config.log file |
| 10:24.04 | trepan | I also have a gl.h in /usr/X11R6/include/GL (using soft links) |
| 10:24.29 | Guest261 | it searches for glu.h |
| 10:24.52 | Guest261 | i haven't it |
| 10:24.58 | Guest261 | where can i download glu.h |
| 10:25.16 | trepan | opengl.org ? what OS? |
| 10:25.20 | Guest261 | linux |
| 10:25.40 | trepan | which distro? |
| 10:25.49 | Guest261 | mandrake |
| 10:25.50 | Guest261 | 9 |
| 10:27.20 | trepan | ah, dunno its package management system |
| 10:28.14 | Chestal | should be inside some package named glu-dev or similar, but I am only extrapolating from other distros |
| 10:28.29 | trepan | look for a libgluXXX-dev type package |
| 10:28.37 | trepan | Chestal: ditto |
| 10:28.43 | Guest261 | libGLU |
| 10:29.21 | Guest261 | oss-open-glu-20000925-1 RPM |
| 10:31.18 | Guest261 | now there is glu.h and i have bzflag client |
| 10:31.20 | Guest261 | thanks |
| 10:31.53 | Guest261 | make |
| 10:39.44 | Guest261 | compiling it's slow :( |
| 10:42.03 | Guest261 | done |
| 10:42.09 | Guest261 | where to find the binary?? |
| 10:45.40 | Guest261 | found |
| 10:51.00 | Guest261 | i have a watch and a black screen |
| 10:51.24 | Guest261 | Failed to open audio device /dev/dsp or /dev/sound/dsp |
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| 11:09.30 | Guest261 | running the bzflag 1.0 i have Sound Volume Unavailable but the program runs |
| 11:09.53 | trepan | you try: bzflag -mute ? |
| 11:12.51 | Guest261 | done but it doesn't work i have a black screen and a watch |
| 11:13.43 | Guest261 | in the watch i have 12.35 .-) |
| 11:14.41 | trepan | any error messages? might also try: bzflag -d (more -d's for more debugging) |
| 11:15.22 | Guest261 | with -mute i haven't the message Failed to open audio device |
| 11:15.30 | Guest261 | so it's not the audio card |
| 11:16.01 | Guest261 | with -d i have ContextInitializer::executeInitFuncs() with a lot of start ends |
| 11:16.05 | Guest261 | end |
| 11:17.11 | Guest261 | only executeInit and executeFree |
| 11:17.23 | Guest261 | Funcs() |
| 11:17.59 | Chestal | you using SDL? |
| 11:18.12 | Guest261 | not SDL |
| 11:18.21 | Guest261 | it's disabled in ./configure report |
| 11:18.30 | Chestal | uhm, the non-SDL on Linux is not maintained very well any longer |
| 11:18.34 | Chestal | it might be broken |
| 11:18.52 | Guest261 | but bz1.0 works well |
| 11:18.58 | Chestal | 1.0? |
| 11:19.02 | Chestal | 1.10? |
| 11:19.08 | Guest261 | 1.xx |
| 11:19.34 | Chestal | well, that proves nothing. for 2.0, SDL is the way to go |
| 11:19.55 | Chestal | I am not sure anyone tested the nom-SDL platform |
| 11:19.56 | Guest261 | ok i'll install SDL |
| 11:20.03 | Chestal | some changes most probably brokeit |
| 11:20.33 | Guest261 | www.sdl.org?? |
| 11:20.38 | Chestal | SDL gives you soem additional features as well IIRC |
| 11:20.49 | Chestal | not part of your distro? |
| 11:21.02 | Chestal | http://www.libsdl.org/ |
| 11:21.39 | Chestal | one more thing you could try with your current build is to run with -window |
| 11:24.06 | Guest261 | ah let me try |
| 11:24.27 | Guest261 | it works in windo |
| 11:24.27 | Guest261 | w |
| 11:25.14 | Guest261 | the mouse is confined in the window |
| 11:27.08 | Guest261 | with -window works |
| 11:27.43 | Guest261 | confine mouse option off |
| 11:27.55 | Guest261 | now i can maximize the window |
| 11:28.35 | Guest261 | if i compile with the option --with-X or anything like that? |
| 11:29.28 | Chestal | hmm? |
| 11:29.39 | Chestal | obiovusly fullscreenis broken with X platform |
| 11:29.46 | Chestal | shoudl work better with SDL |
| 11:30.01 | Guest261 | starting without X ? |
| 11:30.05 | Chestal | SDL also lets you switch between fullscreen and windowed with F1,I don't think the X builds can handle that |
| 11:30.26 | Chestal | it always runs on top of X |
| 11:30.38 | Guest261 | can't open displat without X |
| 11:30.41 | Chestal | but with SDL, it does so indirectly |
| 11:30.50 | Guest261 | let me download it :-) |
| 11:32.11 | Guest261 | is SDL a wrapper to openGl? |
| 11:32.20 | Guest261 | SDL 1.2 |
| 11:32.34 | Chestal | not really |
| 11:32.41 | Chestal | it only helps to get a gl context |
| 11:32.43 | ToughShooter | How can I set Fullscreen to F16? |
| 11:33.18 | Guest261 | so it's only an helper |
| 11:33.30 | Chestal | ToughShooter: does the key apping menu work? |
| 11:33.52 | ToughShooter | If I select it i doesn't work with f16 but other keys work |
| 11:33.55 | Chestal | Guest: it's an abstraction layer for display / window / sound / input |
| 11:34.18 | Guest261 | ok |
| 11:34.30 | Chestal | ToughShooter: might well be that bz only knows about up to F12 |
| 11:34.47 | ToughShooter | Hmpf |
| 11:34.53 | Guest261 | installing SDL-1.2.8 |
| 11:35.33 | ToughShooter | I keep kicking me from all servers due to non-responsiveness of client while switching modes |
| 11:36.37 | ToughShooter | It raises lag in lagstats and thanks to caching of lag it gets only very slow down to the real lag |
| 11:37.51 | Chestal | is the mode switching so slow? |
| 11:38.50 | ToughShooter | Around 2 seconds on a G5@2GHZ + 667FSB + ATI Radeon 9600 + 512MB DDR SD RAM |
| 11:39.18 | ToughShooter | I keep hitting F1 accidently while playing |
| 11:40.52 | Guest261 | recompiling |
| 11:41.04 | ToughShooter | Heh, F13 is identified as print |
| 11:42.03 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~newbie_do@fw.newitech.pl) |
| 11:44.17 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-136-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 11:44.20 | Guest261 | installed the SDL's rpm |
| 11:44.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 11:44.28 | Guest261 | but ./configure don't detect SDL |
| 11:44.37 | Tupone | SDL-dev ? |
| 11:44.40 | ToughShooter | You need the source of SDL |
| 11:45.17 | Chestal | source is not needed, but dev support is |
| 11:45.24 | Chestal | (sdl-config, header files etc.) |
| 11:45.24 | Guest261 | i done rpm -i SDL-devel-1.2.8-1.i386.rpm |
| 11:45.41 | ToughShooter | Download http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.8.tar.gz |
| 11:46.22 | Tupone | Guest261: sdl-config should be in the SDL-devel package |
| 11:46.46 | Guest261 | just a second |
| 11:46.54 | Guest261 | oh |
| 11:47.08 | Guest261 | i have installed the SDL not devel |
| 11:47.11 | Guest261 | and i get this error |
| 11:47.20 | Tupone | you should install both |
| 11:47.42 | Guest261 | SDL-1.2.8-1 conflicts with file from package libSDL-1.2-1.2.4-11mdk |
| 11:47.56 | Guest261 | so SDL is it already installed?? |
| 11:48.42 | Tupone | you should get the SDL-devel in the same repository where you installed the OS. I guess you should get SDL-devel from mandriva |
| 11:48.57 | Tupone | s/in/from/ |
| 11:49.38 | Tupone | but, that seems a bit old? what distribution ? |
| 11:49.44 | Guest261 | 9 |
| 11:49.47 | Guest261 | mandrake 9 |
| 11:50.09 | Tupone | eek, quite old |
| 11:50.10 | Guest261 | i like old things |
| 11:50.42 | Chestal | you can of course install SDL from source into a directory of your choice, then configure bzflag with --with-sdl-prefix=/where/I/installed/it |
| 11:51.00 | Guest261 | yep i m doing it :-) |
| 11:51.01 | Chestal | that's what I am doing here because SDL used to have a bug |
| 11:51.17 | Guest261 | decomp the tar.gz |
| 11:51.20 | Guest261 | and recompiling |
| 11:51.28 | Chestal | Tupone: hmm, actually, I coudl try to buold it with the current debian SDL now, should have the direct color thing fixed? |
| 11:51.53 | Tupone | I don't think anybody fixed in 1.2.8 |
| 11:52.07 | Tupone | I think it will come later |
| 11:52.16 | Tupone | it was just fixed in CVS |
| 11:52.27 | Chestal | ah, I see. Still no new release |
| 11:52.30 | Chestal | they are sloooow :-) |
| 11:52.52 | Tupone | yeah ... mostly like our release, a bit slower |
| 11:56.11 | Guest261 | compiling SDL |
| 11:56.15 | Guest261 | make install |
| 12:02.27 | Guest261 | now it works |
| 12:02.31 | Guest261 | in fullscreen |
| 12:02.47 | Guest261 | but i haven't recompiled with ./configure and SDL |
| 12:03.04 | Tupone | what was your problem ? |
| 12:03.42 | Guest261 | bz works only in window mode |
| 12:03.50 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/data/radar.png: darken the "jump zone" green |
| 12:04.06 | Tupone | hehe, you had a too old version of SDL |
| 12:04.06 | Guest261 | in fullscreen i have a black screen and a watch ( 12.35 .) |
| 12:04.16 | Guest261 | 1.2.4 |
| 12:04.23 | Guest261 | now i hope 1.2.8 |
| 12:04.58 | Tupone | that is unsupported by bzflag, still too many bug. 1.2.7 is the lower, and on some system you should go to 1.2.8 |
| 12:05.44 | Guest261 | lunch time thnx a lot |
| 12:05.53 | Guest261 | i will back soon hoping in your support |
| 12:12.53 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B00B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 12:57.16 | Grumbler | morning all |
| 13:13.13 | *** join/#bzflag RedBaron2 (~d8ada652@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 13:19.26 | Guest261 | hello |
| 13:19.34 | Guest261 | can i edit the code with kdevelop? |
| 13:19.43 | Guest261 | is there a kdevprj? |
| 13:33.50 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 13:33.59 | Pimpinella | no, it is not |
| 13:34.11 | Pimpinella | should be possible to import it though |
| 13:34.56 | Pimpinella | somebody tried it once, not sure who it was actually |
| 13:39.40 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (~d8ada652@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 13:43.49 | TheRedBaron | How does one remove the rejoin time on a server? |
| 13:50.35 | Chestal | there is a variable _rejoinTime |
| 13:50.54 | Chestal | guess you can set it to 0 |
| 13:53.15 | TheRedBaron | ok |
| 13:53.28 | TheRedBaron | I'm assuming thats from the /set command |
| 13:55.22 | Chestal | yes, via /set, or via parameter on startup -set _rejoinTime 0 |
| 13:59.15 | TheRedBaron | thanks chestal |
| 14:03.33 | menotume | yes, but, you can't do it on dub, trb |
| 14:03.45 | RedBaron2 | lol |
| 14:04.08 | TheRedBaron | what?!? |
| 14:04.33 | menotume | nvm |
| 14:04.47 | TheRedBaron | I got the joke :) |
| 14:05.06 | TheRedBaron | I'm staying out of dub |
| 14:05.24 | menotume | wasn't meant as a joke really, it's just that i tried it for a match once - no permiss L) |
| 14:06.25 | TheRedBaron | oh i was thinking #dub. |
| 14:11.05 | *** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@84-72-40-59.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:14.58 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-139-141.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:19.05 | menotume | Tupone is awake, antiban must be working, yay ! |
| 14:20.07 | menotume | Tupone ? |
| 14:20.26 | menotume | I am moving in 2 weeks, so time is limited - not good since i'm a slow coder anyway |
| 14:20.34 | TheRedBaron | some one counted his chickens before they hatched :) |
| 14:21.14 | menotume | So, if you're interested in working on antiban, i can help .... or i can do it, but it may take a while |
| 14:21.36 | menotume | nahh, he' |
| 14:21.43 | menotume | he's justing hiding from me |
| 14:30.11 | Grumbler | the reasons are good i assume |
| 14:30.43 | TheRedBaron | assume nothing... at least not with those 2 |
| 14:30.55 | TheRedBaron | ever diagramed the word "assumed"? |
| 14:31.27 | Grumbler | ever floated your political aspriations on a forked elephant? |
| 14:31.41 | menotume | i did once, never again |
| 14:32.34 | menotume | TheRedBaron: I saw that on an episode of the Odd Couple - many many moons ago |
| 14:32.52 | menotume | i think that stuck in my mind when i came up with u-not-me-u |
| 14:33.10 | menotume | errr, me-not-u-me :) |
| 14:33.26 | Grumbler | or megumi |
| 14:33.37 | menotume | inotui |
| 14:33.49 | Grumbler | inuit |
| 14:33.56 | menotume | :) |
| 14:34.24 | Grumbler | yeah, i had a script go bonkers last night, and i just found out this morning, so i have to re-run and waiit for results |
| 14:34.40 | menotume | really ? |
| 14:34.53 | Grumbler | quite |
| 14:35.08 | Grumbler | i have a very high boredom level right now |
| 14:35.17 | menotume | ahh |
| 14:35.26 | TheRedBaron | Menotume: I learned it from my Father moons ago. |
| 14:35.32 | menotume | multi-tasker broken ? |
| 14:35.59 | menotume | TheRedBaron: I'll necver forget that odd couple episode - it was hilarious |
| 14:36.07 | menotume | ask your dad if that's where it came from |
| 14:40.17 | TheRedBaron | will do. |
| 14:46.21 | Grumbler | thanks menotume, now i have the odd couple theme song running in my head |
| 14:46.45 | menotume | hehe |
| 14:47.52 | Pimpinella | didn't follow tat antiban conversations lately, whats working wrong about it? |
| 14:48.14 | Pimpinella | antiban i mean |
| 14:48.34 | menotume | Pimpinella: If someone is banned by IP (or mask) when they aren't at the server, |
| 14:48.48 | menotume | global ANTIBAN permiss won't work |
| 14:49.06 | menotume | becuase, they will be banned before auth (and group membership) takes place |
| 14:49.27 | Pimpinella | won't adding to local.global fix it? |
| 14:49.33 | menotume | perhpas, yes |
| 14:50.30 | menotume | i'll try to test that, waht exactly does local.global do ? |
| 14:50.40 | menotume | ie, how to ue it ? |
| 14:50.43 | menotume | use |
| 14:51.09 | Pimpinella | just /setgroup "plaer" local.global |
| 14:51.14 | Pimpinella | player |
| 14:52.41 | menotume | ahhh, then in groupdb .... local.global GLOBALGROUPNAME GLOBALGROUPNAME ? |
| 14:53.06 | Pimpinella | yep |
| 14:53.11 | menotume | ahhhh, thx |
| 14:53.16 | Pimpinella | will be upper case though |
| 14:53.22 | Pimpinella | will/should |
| 14:53.24 | menotume | k |
| 14:53.56 | menotume | so, if the anti-banned player wants to join, he/she uses local login |
| 14:54.02 | Pimpinella | /setgroup is case insensitive, not sure about groupdb |
| 14:54.33 | Pimpinella | they can do so if they have a local password |
| 14:54.47 | Pimpinella | they can join either way |
| 14:55.08 | menotume | if they joined gloabl, they'd be banned, right ? |
| 14:55.46 | menotume | one would hope so, or someone could impersonate to get in |
| 14:55.52 | Pimpinella | hmmm |
| 14:56.02 | menotume | i will test it later today |
| 14:56.11 | Pimpinella | no,tink i got it now |
| 14:56.47 | Pimpinella | there must be a local group ANTIBAN: ANTIBAN |
| 14:57.47 | menotume | either way, they'd have to either /identify or 'global' to get their privs i think |
| 14:57.53 | Pimpinella | preventing a player from being rejected would work by adding to both ANTIBAN and LOCAL.GLOBAL |
| 14:58.16 | Pimpinella | NO, NOT THIS WAY |
| 14:58.19 | Pimpinella | oops |
| 14:59.09 | Pimpinella | the server knows about the ANTIBAN perm, before it gets the players global groups |
| 14:59.44 | Pimpinella | and accepts the global login to apply the local group too |
| 15:00.15 | Pimpinella | thid _should_ work |
| 15:00.25 | Pimpinella | this should work |
| 15:00.50 | Pimpinella | local login doesn't even have to be enabled at all |
| 15:01.10 | menotume | Pimpinella: the problem is, that ban check is done way before global auth takes place |
| 15:01.21 | Pimpinella | doesn't matter |
| 15:01.50 | Pimpinella | it's made also made before a local identify can be performed |
| 15:02.11 | menotume | but, how does bzfs know that player xyz is really player xyz, to get privs ? |
| 15:02.29 | menotume | ahhhh, i c |
| 15:02.38 | Pimpinella | not sure, but it works fine for me |
| 15:02.42 | menotume | that's why i could get local groups to work |
| 15:02.47 | Pimpinella | i wondered why it shouldn't work |
| 15:02.55 | menotume | sounds like someone could impersonate an anti-banned player |
| 15:03.18 | Pimpinella | because i only use global login |
| 15:03.42 | Pimpinella | but i have local.admin on the servers where i tried antiban |
| 15:04.04 | Pimpinella | maybe |
| 15:04.35 | Pimpinella | probably a banned player should stay in limbo while he's not properly identified |
| 15:04.52 | Pimpinella | not sure how to implement this |
| 15:06.59 | menotume | well, that's what we talked about - we worked out a way |
| 15:07.08 | Pimpinella | ic |
| 15:07.55 | Pimpinella | in addPlayer the players state is changed to > playerInLimbo iirc |
| 15:08.06 | menotume | so, an anti-banned player who fits a current ban, will have to wait for auth before joining |
| 15:08.11 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-138-64.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:08.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 15:08.19 | menotume | shhh, there he is again |
| 15:08.23 | Pimpinella | this could be delayed |
| 15:08.59 | menotume | di you get my previous comments, tupy ? |
| 15:09.06 | Pimpinella | and changing state after auth if it's still playerInLimbo |
| 15:09.16 | Tupone | nope |
| 15:09.17 | Pimpinella | lunch |
| 15:09.24 | menotume | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.30 | menotume | So, if you're interested in working on antiban, i can help .... or i can do it, but it may take a while |
| 15:09.59 | menotume | I WILL try some tests here to understand if local.gloabl, etc. can help in the meantime |
| 15:10.07 | Tupone | ok |
| 15:12.18 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (~d8ada652@genesis.concept69.de) |
| 15:17.38 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc) |
| 15:17.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 15:17.53 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:27.47 | *** join/#bzflag LilDog (~43b979bb@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:27.55 | LilDog | hey everyone |
| 15:29.04 | LilDog | can an admin please unidentify my name please? |
| 15:34.01 | Tupone | lil_dog: where? |
| 15:34.34 | lil_dog | tupone, wanna match? |
| 15:34.38 | lil_dog | dub 59998 |
| 15:34.44 | Tupone | nope |
| 15:35.21 | Tupone | I don't match any :) |
| 15:35.37 | TheRedBaron | he's retired :) |
| 15:35.58 | menotume | tired again ? |
| 15:36.48 | lil_dog | hey TRB and meno |
| 15:36.56 | Tupone | retired ? still studying |
| 15:37.56 | menotume | re-tired = tired again |
| 15:37.59 | JeffM2501 | lil_dog, we can't do anything with your name |
| 15:38.17 | menotume | i may be able to, if he gives me the exact callsign |
| 15:38.38 | Tupone | menotume: I got that ... even if not my language :) |
| 15:38.46 | menotume | ooops, no - not on 59998, sry |
| 15:38.55 | JeffM2501 | ahh on a game server |
| 15:39.08 | JeffM2501 | would have been nice for him to mention that :) |
| 15:39.16 | menotume | i ASSuME so, anyway |
| 15:39.17 | lil_dog | lol =) |
| 15:39.32 | JeffM2501 | lil_dog, what do you need? |
| 15:39.34 | JeffM2501 | and where? |
| 15:39.49 | lil_dog | 2 people at dub.bzflag.org on bzflag to match |
| 15:40.00 | _Manu_ | lil_dog, do you mean deregister? |
| 15:40.01 | lil_dog | how are you doin jeff? its been a while.. |
| 15:40.13 | lil_dog | nope i covered that, and hey manu long time no see |
| 15:40.23 | _Manu_ | yep |
| 15:41.01 | Tupone | I guess we should not unregister any guy who come here and say I am lil_dog, No ? |
| 15:41.08 | Tupone | specially from webchat? |
| 15:41.27 | Tupone | what happens if c3po come here and ask ? |
| 15:41.42 | _Manu_ | easy to identify him ;-p |
| 15:41.42 | TheRedBaron | don't throw jeff off his groove! |
| 15:41.58 | JeffM2501 | I was on vacation |
| 15:42.06 | JeffM2501 | that kinda TOOK me off my groove :) |
| 15:42.20 | lil_dog | hey i am the lil dog |
| 15:42.24 | Tupone | I think we need a better way to resolve conflict :/ |
| 15:42.25 | JeffM2501 | we know |
| 15:42.35 | _Manu_ | Tupone, I can know if he is Lil Dog.. ;) |
| 15:42.37 | Tupone | Just talking generic, sorry |
| 15:42.43 | lil_dog | just didnt remember old pw.... |
| 15:42.44 | JeffM2501 | global login with team groups :) |
| 15:42.45 | TheRedBaron | yea hawiia, how was it? |
| 15:43.02 | TheRedBaron | god i can't spell... |
| 15:43.08 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, best would be if members of real teams were in a group so you could know who is who |
| 15:43.13 | JeffM2501 | hawaii was fun |
| 15:43.38 | JeffM2501 | http://myth.gibbscam.com/temp/hawaii/DSCN1856.JPG |
| 15:43.44 | JeffM2501 | that was from the room |
| 15:43.48 | *** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@84-72-40-59.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:44.22 | lil_dog | oooof |
| 15:44.27 | lil_dog | nice view |
| 15:44.29 | lil_dog | daaaang |
| 15:44.58 | Tupone | JeffM2501: where I can get SP2? Through the windows update channel ? |
| 15:45.51 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, yeah, or I can send you an installer |
| 15:46.00 | JeffM2501 | it reuires IE tho :( |
| 15:46.43 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, do you have a real windows install? |
| 15:46.44 | Tupone | I'm doing a windows update, not my PC ... my friend ask me to clean it, and I'm reinstalling everything from scratch. |
| 15:46.51 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 15:46.58 | JeffM2501 | then just go to windows update in IE |
| 15:47.02 | JeffM2501 | and it'll take care of it all |
| 15:47.05 | JeffM2501 | automagicly |
| 15:47.06 | Tupone | ok |
| 15:47.16 | Tupone | almost like gentoo |
| 15:47.24 | Tupone | :) |
| 15:47.39 | JeffM2501 | then take all the shortcuts to IE, replace them with shortcuts to firefox reanmed "internet explorer" and change the icon to the E :) |
| 15:48.05 | Tupone | lol. I hope I don't get attacked before updating |
| 15:48.13 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad@ACC984AA.ipt.aol.com) |
| 15:48.20 | JeffM2501 | you behind a router? |
| 15:48.25 | Chestal | Tupone: I think you have 15s ;-) |
| 15:48.30 | Tupone | lol |
| 15:48.38 | TheRedBaron | Tupone, your IP is 127.0.0.1? |
| 15:48.43 | Tupone | behind a router, so most attack are inecffective |
| 15:48.48 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 15:48.52 | JeffM2501 | you'll be fine |
| 15:49.00 | JeffM2501 | just don't go to any other pages |
| 15:49.09 | Tupone | It was hardly infected :) |
| 15:49.11 | Chestal | hi brad2901 |
| 15:49.23 | brad2901 | Hey Chestal |
| 15:49.27 | Chestal | brad2901: bamf is on dub |
| 15:49.41 | brad2901 | ok, I'll go get him, thanks |
| 15:49.57 | Tupone | no other windows machine to get virus from, in the lan :) |
| 15:58.27 | *** join/#bzflag SportyGal (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 16:00.35 | Tupone | menotume: from the few words I read in the log, written by bryjen, I thing hostban and antiban are working good. Only ip ban/antiban does not work |
| 16:05.42 | brad2901 | ~bzflist |
| 16:08.42 | RatOmeter | Tupone: responding late and you don't know me from Adam, but I can send you the SP2 install file they provided before SP2 hit Windows Update. |
| 16:09.11 | RatOmeter | It doesn't require IE or MS servers |
| 16:09.40 | Tupone | but I'm installing it from windows update right now. |
| 16:09.54 | Tupone | Just a question. Should I avoid specific updare ? |
| 16:10.01 | Tupone | update even |
| 16:11.20 | RatOmeter | no, choose Express |
| 16:11.43 | RatOmeter | that option won't offer fluff and BS |
| 16:12.20 | Tupone | ok, doing that. 3rd update is SP2. I wonder what is next :) |
| 16:12.32 | RatOmeter | plenty |
| 16:13.17 | RatOmeter | I show at least 22 important/critical updates after SP2 |
| 16:13.32 | TheRedBaron | yup |
| 16:13.38 | TheRedBaron | you'll have to run windows update at least 8 times |
| 16:14.40 | Pimpinella | ?? |
| 16:14.47 | Pimpinella | why 8 times? |
| 16:15.00 | RatOmeter | I've got all the pre-SP2 updates setup up to run silent/no reboot mode via a batch file. Haven't done that for the post-SP2 updates yet |
| 16:15.07 | TheRedBaron | well 8 may be an exxageration |
| 16:15.15 | TheRedBaron | more like 5 times |
| 16:15.27 | TheRedBaron | that's how windows works. |
| 16:15.44 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, there is nothing you should avoid, just do what it says, for a normal user it should be fine |
| 16:15.46 | Pimpinella | shouldn't just one run get them all and install in right order? |
| 16:15.46 | RatOmeter | With windows update, I doubt he'll need to reboot except after the SP2 update |
| 16:15.49 | TheRedBaron | you run it to patch some files. it patches them, rescans, patches the patches, rescans.. |
| 16:15.55 | TheRedBaron | etc etc. |
| 16:15.57 | Pimpinella | oh, this micht mean no... |
| 16:16.48 | TheRedBaron | just do the security updates. don't trust the driver updates. |
| 16:17.21 | TheRedBaron | tupone: what version of windows? |
| 16:17.26 | Tupone | xp |
| 16:17.54 | JeffM2501 | yeah, don't do drivers |
| 16:18.02 | JeffM2501 | get drivers from the chipset people |
| 16:18.06 | JeffM2501 | mostly video |
| 16:18.09 | RatOmeter | "don't trust the driver updates." the "express" option won't offer driver updates |
| 16:18.10 | JeffM2501 | and mobo |
| 16:18.28 | Tupone | I'll throw away windows on weekend. I'll give it to the owner. I can stand with it too much time :) |
| 16:18.32 | JeffM2501 | I usualy just run em all on windows update, then go an get the drivers I know i need |
| 16:18.47 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, should only take you 2 hours for setup :) |
| 16:19.37 | Tupone | I had to setup samba to save files ,,, then I installed windows, then doing update .. then reinstalling file .. |
| 16:19.37 | RatOmeter | involved |
| 16:19.44 | RatOmeter | involves! |
| 16:19.52 | TheRedBaron | same |
| 16:20.10 | JeffM2501 | installing windows isn't rocket science |
| 16:20.18 | TheRedBaron | exactly |
| 16:20.40 | TheRedBaron | but fixing it, can be a pita. |
| 16:20.57 | JeffM2501 | naw, wipe and reinstall is cake :) |
| 16:21.05 | JeffM2501 | specialy if you have a magic disk |
| 16:21.15 | Tupone | I have 3 computer here now, I cannot manage a 4th heating the room |
| 16:21.18 | RatOmeter | ha, if one of the PCs here goes nuts, I just use Ghost to blow a new image on |
| 16:21.23 | TheRedBaron | anything like a magic stick? |
| 16:21.31 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 16:21.40 | JeffM2501 | you can put the magic on a memory stick too |
| 16:21.57 | RatOmeter | you talking about an automated install CD? |
| 16:22.05 | RatOmeter | unattended, actually |
| 16:22.15 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 16:22.20 | JeffM2501 | I am talking about magic |
| 16:22.27 | RatOmeter | FM? |
| 16:22.54 | JeffM2501 | boot cd that lets you get into the trashed system and get the profile data off |
| 16:23.07 | JeffM2501 | then reinstall and just migrate |
| 16:23.15 | RatOmeter | ah, you can do that with a Linux boot CD and the right software |
| 16:23.37 | JeffM2501 | you can do that with a windows boot cd too |
| 16:23.41 | JeffM2501 | and the right software |
| 16:27.16 | TheRedBaron | Ratometer: i love ghost |
| 16:28.46 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 16:32.45 | TheRedBaron | lunchtime! |
| 16:33.18 | RatOmeter | mahlzeit! |
| 16:34.37 | TheRedBaron | n/quit have fun and frag lots |
| 16:34.46 | TheRedBaron | erk |
| 17:06.25 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B02F22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:41.52 | *** join/#bzflag SportChicky (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 18:03.42 | *** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 18:24.04 | ToughShooter | ~bzfquery 84.176.47.34:5154 |
| 18:25.12 | ToughShooter | I could need someone to help me testing a mod of lagstats |
| 18:26.58 | blast007 | at 84.176.47.34:5154? |
| 18:27.26 | ToughShooter | Jupp |
| 18:33.43 | Tupone | Are you removing observer from lagstat? I introduced on 1.10 specifically to help diagnose load. I think that a lagging observer consume resource at server, for buffering tcp data :/ |
| 18:35.09 | ToughShooter | I was thinking about removing observer lag except lag of own tank |
| 18:35.48 | Tupone | I understand. Just I don't agree, unless someone explain me that a lagger observer is not a problem at all |
| 18:35.57 | RatOmeter | maybe optional with a default == not display observer lag? |
| 18:36.14 | ToughShooter | I tried to find out why bzadmin connection are always first at list and wanted that for all observers |
| 18:37.14 | Tupone | bzadmin are supposed to receive a lot less messages on next release. So lag is no more needed |
| 18:37.25 | Tupone | next mean 2.2.0 |
| 18:37.55 | ToughShooter | Unluckily I didn't really understood where this happens exactly. It's easier to have real players at end of list because then I don't have to look in Main message tab over and over when there is a lagging observer |
| 18:38.46 | blast007 | ToughShooter: maybe just display all observers at the end? |
| 18:38.47 | Tupone | previously lagstat was not sorted |
| 18:38.55 | Tupone | now it is |
| 18:39.10 | ToughShooter | Well, not always |
| 18:39.31 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@84-72-40-59.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:39.45 | ToughShooter | I've seen that it gets sometimes out of order when a player has lost packages |
| 18:39.52 | ToughShooter | err, packets |
| 18:45.33 | ToughShooter | So I should rather change sorting in lagCompare inside commands.cxx? |
| 18:45.59 | Tupone | well, a fix to sorting is welcome |
| 18:47.08 | ToughShooter | I'm a bit unsure how to get info whether a player is observer from there but I think I'll get it with a bit testing |
| 18:50.16 | blast007 | or you could change handleLagstatsCmd so that it first does all of the regular players, sorts them, then does observers, and sorts them |
| 18:50.52 | Tupone | As I said, I welcome any fix on sorting, that show observer too. Moving out observer ... I don't bless |
| 18:55.24 | *** join/#bzflag tavla (~spreker@ip51cfa1ef.direct-adsl.nl) |
| 18:56.55 | trepan | too bad the lagstats strings are ANSI stripped at the client, no colors... |
| 18:57.15 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:57.25 | trepan | would make name-to-lag association easier |
| 18:58.22 | trepan | could do a little embedding trickery |
| 18:58.33 | Chestal | maybe its time to exchange this info one layer below |
| 18:58.38 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-163-240.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:58.45 | trepan | binary style? |
| 18:58.59 | Chestal | yes |
| 18:59.14 | Chestal | probably a new message type, haven't really thought about it |
| 18:59.39 | tavla | maybe a silly question: has it been considered to add the lagtime of the killer to killed message? |
| 19:00.21 | Chestal | well you could piggyback that inforamtion to en existign message like this, not sure it's a good idea or sufficient, though |
| 19:00.36 | trepan | might be worth shoving the lagstat in MsgPlayerUpdates, having a display bar next to player names |
| 19:00.54 | tavla | that would be better even |
| 19:01.01 | Chestal | might be overkill to send it very often |
| 19:01.16 | *** part/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@orchid.user) |
| 19:01.21 | tavla | once a minute? |
| 19:01.23 | trepan | 1 or 2 bytes... ain't nothing |
| 19:01.24 | Chestal | could also be only resent when it changed >n% |
| 19:01.37 | Chestal | I want /idlestats, too :-) |
| 19:02.03 | trepan | different ball of wax... |
| 19:02.18 | blast007 | the client can count seconds :) |
| 19:02.20 | *** join/#bzflag bz9957 (~cb82f078@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:03.40 | Chestal | serevr could simply broadcast lag info every n (10? 30?) seconds, possibly optimizing for constant lags |
| 19:04.13 | Chestal | that's also a neglibible amount of data |
| 19:05.16 | trepan | heh, depends on the update rate, UDP packets have headers |
| 19:06.03 | Chestal | yes, but even at every 10s, it's nothing compared to the rest of the packets |
| 19:06.23 | trepan | average player updates / second ? |
| 19:06.32 | Tupone | Chestal: with ping packet? |
| 19:06.42 | Chestal | Tupone: possible |
| 19:07.17 | Tupone | 200 16 bit word max |
| 19:07.25 | Chestal | trepan: minimum: n-1 broadcasts a second, average probably (5-10)*(n-1) broadcasts |
| 19:09.37 | Chestal | an id|lag|id|lag format is probably more compact, depending on the threshold at whch to send change |
| 19:09.50 | Chestal | who cares whether it's 100ms or 105ms |
| 19:10.11 | Chestal | of courde, there's the jitter and lost packets value, too |
| 19:11.50 | Chestal | current solutons works fine enough for me, though |
| 19:12.16 | Chestal | but before someone starts parsing the lagstats value on the client, we should change type of communication :-) |
| 19:22.48 | ToughShooter | I would be glad if someone could help me testing one more time |
| 19:23.08 | ToughShooter | ~bzfquery 84.176.47.34:5154 |
| 19:25.58 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.151) |
| 19:27.08 | ToughShooter | The problem is that if I use multiple clients on my machine lag is equal and therefore not useful for sorting tests |
| 19:33.43 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 19:34.06 | Bagheera | dont suppose anybody here is using nut to control a cyberpower 800avr? |
| 19:38.30 | Bagheera | not really, but thats ok, it was a long shot, suppose i should try #debian or something |
| 19:39.05 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:39.15 | bryjen | ooo |
| 19:39.19 | Bagheera | well, when i was drilling a hole in the wall to mount the new medicine cabinet and all my computers gliitched, i decided to put the money up front |
| 19:39.24 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 19:39.37 | DTRemenak | you should try to avoid drilling power lines |
| 19:39.42 | DTRemenak | it can be a shocking experience |
| 19:39.50 | Bagheera | heh |
| 19:40.38 | Grumbler | ouch, now DTR will be ups all the timie |
| 19:41.04 | DTRemenak | always better to be ups than downs |
| 19:43.41 | bryjen | because it was ups-and-downs alot. |
| 19:43.45 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:44.14 | bryjen | annoying a few folks |
| 19:44.54 | bryjen | didn't really bother me -- until they started _calling_ all the time ;) |
| 19:44.59 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 19:45.30 | ToughShooter | Here's my patch: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1241100&group_id=3248&atid=303248 |
| 19:54.28 | menotume | trepan: when i was testing a while back, there were 20 MsgPlayerUpdates/second |
| 19:54.33 | menotume | with movement, of course |
| 19:55.32 | menotume | (per player) :) |
| 19:57.06 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: sort lagstat, observer lag is less important |
| 20:00.59 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: Sorting lagstat |
| 20:08.01 | bryjen | i think you committed the wrong file, Tupone |
| 20:08.12 | Tupone | eek |
| 20:08.14 | Tupone | yeah |
| 20:08.17 | Tupone | :( |
| 20:09.40 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/commands.cxx: sort lagstat, observer lag is less important (This is the one, not bzfs.cxx) |
| 20:09.49 | Grumbler | shouldnt observer lag just be removed from the lagstat function alll together considering how useless i t i s |
| 20:11.03 | Tupone | Grumbler, I think that a lagger increase the buffer size needed at server. If that is true, admin need to know |
| 20:11.43 | Grumbler | but arent observers not even tracked, hence the unrealistic numbers/ |
| 20:11.45 | Grumbler | ? |
| 20:11.58 | Tupone | observer are tracked |
| 20:12.03 | Tupone | AFAIK |
| 20:12.37 | Grumbler | hmmm, maybe its bzadmin that only has the unrealistic numbers because it doesnt answer |
| 20:12.52 | Tupone | yeah could be |
| 20:12.55 | menotume | nope |
| 20:12.58 | menotume | clients too |
| 20:13.23 | Grumbler | so any observer will increase buffer size...? |
| 20:13.28 | menotume | if it's what i think it is, it'll show the current time when a packet is missing |
| 20:13.44 | menotume | i think i have screencaps somewhere, i reported it here several months ago |
| 20:14.03 | Tupone | I mean, if tcp connection are slow data shuold be buffered in some place, sender or receiver |
| 20:14.29 | Tupone | perhaps tcp data are not a lot :/ |
| 20:14.32 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:14.34 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC80FC04.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:14.45 | Thumper_ | hi all |
| 20:15.30 | Thumper_ | I'd like to set server player limits dynamically... I assume that would be possible with a server patch |
| 20:15.52 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/ (include/PlayerInfo.h src/game/PlayerInfo.cxx): Moving callsign filtering in PlayerInfo |
| 20:16.28 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ (GameKeeper.cxx GameKeeper.h bzfs.cxx): Moving callsign filtering in PlayerInfo |
| 20:16.41 | Tupone | bryjen: I hope is buildable now |
| 20:21.24 | bryjen | yes. built OK |
| 20:21.43 | menotume | Tupone: are you able to test bzfs stuff yet ? |
| 20:22.17 | Tupone | I have not tested, and is difficult for me to make a good test |
| 20:22.30 | menotume | i will make you a shell acct here if you want |
| 20:22.50 | Tupone | someone who has set filtering can test if that works |
| 20:22.59 | menotume | ok |
| 20:23.01 | Tupone | menotume: bw ? |
| 20:23.09 | menotume | bw ? |
| 20:23.18 | menotume | what is that ? |
| 20:23.20 | Tupone | I asked? |
| 20:23.24 | Tupone | band-width |
| 20:23.30 | menotume | ahhh, calble |
| 20:23.34 | menotume | 3M/256k |
| 20:23.43 | menotume | only good for 4-6 players |
| 20:23.53 | menotume | and, not good if i'm playing :) |
| 20:24.05 | Tupone | cable is shared ? |
| 20:24.11 | menotume | with me |
| 20:24.13 | menotume | yes |
| 20:24.28 | menotume | would only be good for quick tests |
| 20:24.45 | *** join/#bzflag Paddy (~anonymous@217.19.88.112) |
| 20:24.53 | Paddy | hi all |
| 20:25.03 | *** join/#bzflag SportyGal (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 20:25.36 | Paddy | quick question: Is there somewhere like a 'global registry' for nicknames where i can /register myself and be known to all / some / a few servers ? |
| 20:26.05 | menotume | Paddy, yes |
| 20:26.11 | Thumper_ | bzbb.bzflag.org |
| 20:26.14 | menotume | register at my.bzflag.org/bb |
| 20:26.19 | Paddy | uhm |
| 20:26.21 | menotume | yes, same thing :) |
| 20:26.23 | Paddy | I am already there |
| 20:26.24 | trepan | Paddy: stick your BZBB password into the "Password:" slot |
| 20:26.26 | Paddy | on my.bzflag.org |
| 20:26.33 | Paddy | ahhh |
| 20:26.39 | Thumper_ | use same callsign and your bzbb pwd on bzflag |
| 20:27.04 | Thumper_ | when you connect to a server you should get a + |
| 20:27.09 | Paddy | let me check it immediatly :) |
| 20:27.38 | Paddy | hey ! it worked like a charm |
| 20:27.47 | menotume | hehe |
| 20:28.22 | Paddy | on all but my server :-P (Blush) |
| 20:28.30 | Thumper_ | only works on public servers |
| 20:28.35 | Paddy | it tells me to ask myself (the admin) about the local.global group |
| 20:28.41 | Paddy | uhm, it IS public |
| 20:28.47 | Thumper_ | if you have a private user entry for you |
| 20:28.53 | Paddy | but i don't have a local.global.group |
| 20:28.55 | Paddy | yes i do |
| 20:28.55 | Thumper_ | add LOCAL.GLOBAL to that user |
| 20:29.05 | Thumper_ | it's 'magic' |
| 20:29.07 | Thumper_ | just add it |
| 20:29.07 | Paddy | i don't have a local.global group |
| 20:29.07 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.20 | Paddy | let me check :) |
| 20:29.22 | Thumper_ | it's a 'global' group |
| 20:29.49 | Thumper_ | just do /setgroup "your-nick" local.global |
| 20:30.56 | Paddy | group add successful, you have been added to the local.global group by Paddy (that is me) |
| 20:30.58 | Paddy | :) |
| 20:31.07 | Thumper_ | ok then reconnect |
| 20:31.09 | Thumper_ | and it should work |
| 20:31.26 | Paddy | global login approved |
| 20:31.31 | Thumper_ | tada :) |
| 20:31.33 | Paddy | that is great Thumper_ thanx a lot !!! |
| 20:31.37 | Thumper_ | wlcm |
| 20:31.38 | Paddy | it *is* magic !! !:) |
| 20:32.01 | Paddy | so now all users will be identified appropriately on my server as well ? |
| 20:32.08 | Thumper_ | any local users |
| 20:32.13 | Thumper_ | will have the same problem as you |
| 20:32.15 | Thumper_ | with the local.global thing |
| 20:32.18 | Paddy | i will fix them :) |
| 20:32.26 | Paddy | there are a few anyway, just my intranet users |
| 20:32.33 | Thumper_ | you should verify that they really are global users that registered locally |
| 20:32.38 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 20:33.15 | Paddy | this is nice :) |
| 20:34.42 | *** join/#bzflag SC_work (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 20:39.17 | Thumper_ | trepan: MUTE group doesn't seem to work at all for anon players |
| 20:39.39 | Thumper_ | which would explain all the LOCAL.GLOBAL entries in your userdb :) |
| 20:43.37 | Paddy | Thumper:... umm about the HUGE banlist that I have... does this also come from a global server ? |
| 20:43.44 | Paddy | because I am sure that I have never banned anyone :) |
| 20:45.17 | blast007 | Paddy: yeah, there is a master ban list, though only really bad offenders get put on there |
| 20:46.43 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (JavaUser@ACD73FCA.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:47.52 | blast007 | Paddy: here is where they come from: http://bzflag.org/master-bans.txt |
| 20:50.50 | Thumper_ | Paddy: masterban list probably |
| 20:51.53 | Thumper_ | hmmm my masterbanlist isn't working anymore :/ |
| 20:51.59 | Thumper_ | it says it loads but the entries are not there |
| 20:52.08 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.10 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:52.28 | Thumper_ | +t |
| 20:52.46 | bryjen | there was a curl bug a while back that would cause that |
| 20:53.03 | Thumper_ | hmm |
| 20:53.04 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 20:53.11 | Thumper_ | so I should upgrade my server |
| 20:53.23 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.41 | Thumper_ | it's only 4 months old :) |
| 21:02.24 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * 10bzflag/src/game/PlayerInfo.cxx: rephrase error message |
| 21:31.12 | RatOmeter | noticed that main() in bzflag.cxx has multiple exit/return points without calling WSACleanup() to free up winsock resources cleanly. |
| 21:32.00 | RatOmeter | (obviously Windows only). The return()s could be fixed by a call to WSACleanup() in WinMain() after myMain() returns |
| 21:35.59 | RatOmeter | moving the existing call from the end of main/myMain to that spot in WinMain would cover most of it |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM2501 | you mean the calls to exit? |
| 21:40.02 | *** join/#bzflag StainlessSteelRa (~42347f12@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:40.25 | RatOmeter | that and 4 calls to return |
| 21:40.31 | JeffM2501 | what lines? |
| 21:41.03 | RatOmeter | line numbers? |
| 21:41.07 | JeffM2501 | ahh the platform factory stuff |
| 21:42.12 | RatOmeter | basic fix for the returns, 1) remove the first call to WSACleanup in main, move the second (and only other) call to the end of WinMain |
| 21:43.31 | *** join/#bzflag Robotguy (~chatzilla@66.52.127.18) |
| 21:44.44 | JeffM2501 | ohh I know how to fix it |
| 21:44.47 | JeffM2501 | just looking for where it is |
| 21:45.20 | RatOmeter | oh, I twiddle the copy I'm looking at enough I could give you a line number, yet. |
| 21:45.47 | JeffM2501 | I it's fine |
| 21:45.49 | JeffM2501 | I have it now |
| 21:45.53 | RatOmeter | cool |
| 21:46.21 | RatOmeter | I guess the calls to exist might need to be preceded by a WSACleanup |
| 21:46.29 | JeffM2501 | they do |
| 21:46.40 | JeffM2501 | but I'm not doing it that crude |
| 21:46.51 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, I have a simple fix |
| 21:47.00 | JeffM2501 | not all exit states need it called |
| 21:47.07 | JeffM2501 | some die before wsa is inited |
| 21:47.10 | RatOmeter | right |
| 21:47.40 | DTRemenak | right, so you don't call atexit until it IS inited |
| 21:47.52 | DTRemenak | ~whaleslap RatOmeter |
| 21:47.53 | ibot | ACTION slaps RatOmeter upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 21:48.09 | RatOmeter | heh |
| 21:49.13 | JeffM2501 | tho I'd say in the cases it does return, you should be punshied by having a dirty winsox |
| 21:49.19 | JeffM2501 | cus if you can't init a GL context |
| 21:49.36 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:49.54 | JeffM2501 | then something is WAY wrong with you |
| 21:49.59 | DTRemenak | you have broken windows! |
| 21:52.18 | JeffM2501 | what crap version of windows would fail on a window create? |
| 21:52.18 | RatOmeter | I suspect that windows does clean it up anyway, but 1) I wouldn't count on it and 2) they say you *must* call WSACleanup |
| 21:52.58 | JeffM2501 | 9x probably dosn't clean |
| 21:53.01 | JeffM2501 | and it's a simple fix |
| 21:53.15 | RatOmeter | prolly right about 9x |
| 21:53.58 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/bzflag.cxx: make sure winsoc is cleaned up when we die a horible horible death |
| 21:54.24 | RatOmeter | jeez, about time |
| 21:54.39 | JeffM2501 | on a comercial product, not realy |
| 21:54.47 | JeffM2501 | there are a lot of them out there |
| 21:55.01 | JeffM2501 | we just don't want to fix stuff that is only busted on non NT OSs |
| 21:55.54 | *** join/#bzflag bz2972 (~d5c7c142@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:57.23 | DTRemenak | yay kill me |
| 21:57.35 | DTRemenak | kill me! kill me! wait that doesn't sound right |
| 21:59.00 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501, actually I'm somewhat surprised that an industrial cad/cam program would ever have supported 9x |
| 21:59.03 | bryjen | ~kill DTRemenak |
| 21:59.03 | ibot | ACTION shoots a hyper-charged neutron gun at DTRemenak |
| 21:59.42 | brad2901 | Plugin:RogueGenocide found but expects an older API version (2), upgrade it |
| 21:59.42 | brad2901 | Plugin:chathistory found but expects an older API version (2), upgrade it |
| 21:59.50 | brad2901 | Where do I upgrade? |
| 22:00.09 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, we target the mid range guys |
| 22:00.13 | JeffM2501 | so we hit those OSs |
| 22:00.21 | DTRemenak | ah, ok |
| 22:00.31 | JeffM2501 | some of our customers are small job shops that only have 1 computer |
| 22:00.39 | JeffM2501 | so geting them a "networked" os can be hard |
| 22:00.50 | JeffM2501 | thanks to XP it's not hard anymore |
| 22:00.51 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:01.00 | JeffM2501 | XP home gets them fine |
| 22:01.24 | DTRemenak | yeah, the only places I've ever seen cam used were on NT4 and solaris |
| 22:01.33 | JeffM2501 | before we had a win32 version we actualy ran better on 95 then NT, because we were a dos app |
| 22:01.34 | RatOmeter | I believe AutoCAD, SolidWorks, CADKEY and more all supported 9x at one time or another |
| 22:01.42 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 22:02.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah we can get away with desuporting ME |
| 22:02.09 | JeffM2501 | consumer level software can't |
| 22:02.11 | JeffM2501 | not just yet |
| 22:02.16 | RatOmeter | sad |
| 22:02.29 | JeffM2501 | for a lot of people the old OS still works |
| 22:02.32 | JeffM2501 | it does what it does |
| 22:02.47 | JeffM2501 | they just don't know newer things can do it better |
| 22:02.47 | bryjen | ms still offers paid-incident and security updates for ME |
| 22:03.13 | JeffM2501 | MS still supports exchange on windows 3.11 for paid-incidents |
| 22:03.27 | DTRemenak | lots of people still use 9x-based systems |
| 22:03.56 | JeffM2501 | we had to desuport it, many of our new gui calls just aren't implemented on 9x |
| 22:04.09 | DTRemenak | but almost everyone who uses their computers for Real Work has upgraded to nt-based |
| 22:04.12 | JeffM2501 | and we don't want to runtime swap stuff |
| 22:04.16 | JeffM2501 | for us, not wirth it |
| 22:04.24 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:04.37 | JeffM2501 | it would make the code even worse |
| 22:04.38 | Tupone | do we always ban just 1 IP on the master ban file, and that will be never antibanned ? |
| 22:04.50 | JeffM2501 | we allready fall into the "wierd" case |
| 22:04.53 | DTRemenak | always one ip yes |
| 22:05.08 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, yeah we don't do ranges, because that could get somone by accedent |
| 22:05.13 | DTRemenak | and that would suck |
| 22:05.22 | JeffM2501 | servers themselves can anitban people if they wish |
| 22:05.22 | Tupone | and it will not be by hostname, only IP |
| 22:05.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah, if there is ANY way we could get somone by accedent, it can't go into masterban |
| 22:05.53 | JeffM2501 | err on the side of caution |
| 22:06.04 | JeffM2501 | there are other ways to take care of people who dynamic IP |
| 22:06.34 | Tupone | As we need to delay the ban/anti ban after we get the authorization, I think we can reject the player from the master ban file, without even let him connect |
| 22:06.47 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 22:06.53 | Tupone | that way he cannot dos |
| 22:06.59 | JeffM2501 | even better |
| 22:07.11 | Tupone | but no message back, only log |
| 22:07.25 | JeffM2501 | if they are on master ban, they should allready know |
| 22:07.52 | DTRemenak | they should get a reject message anyway |
| 22:08.32 | Tupone | When I fix the antiban, the rejection will be delayed |
| 22:08.45 | Tupone | so better have a special case for the really bad guy |
| 22:08.59 | Tupone | otherwise they can get all the slot |
| 22:09.36 | Tupone | if, for instance , they don't send the enter message |
| 22:10.06 | DTRemenak | if you're special-casing masterbanned people anyway you can special-case it to send the rejection message too :) |
| 22:10.32 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.151) |
| 22:12.19 | Tupone | rejection message means all the data structure are ok. So need a special effort to ban people without waiting and then sending a rejection message before closing. How long we await for closing? We close just after message send (message can not arrive). We close after remote closing and timeout ? remote cannot close .. |
| 22:13.06 | Tupone | bad code, full of possible bug. Better ban all :) |
| 22:14.02 | DTRemenak | how is it done now? |
| 22:14.13 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC80FC04.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:14.26 | Tupone | We wait fr remote closing. And we use all the data structure setup |
| 22:14.32 | DTRemenak | why block these people earlier than they are now? |
| 22:14.38 | Tupone | DOS |
| 22:14.43 | DTRemenak | are we having problems with them with the current setup? |
| 22:15.02 | DTRemenak | you can DOS a server without keeping a connection open :) |
| 22:15.05 | Tupone | now they are banned as soon as we get the enter message |
| 22:15.24 | Tupone | I need to change this for antiban |
| 22:15.49 | DTRemenak | yes, but can you leave it just like it is for masterbanned people? or is there something that that would break too? |
| 22:15.51 | Tupone | and banned people can stay more |
| 22:16.43 | Tupone | so ... waiting the enter? I can, I always need to duplicate check |
| 22:17.15 | Tupone | so, while we are putting the hands on it, why not avoiding dos from certain address |
| 22:17.54 | DTRemenak | not sending a message seems very error-prone to me. person x gets masterbanned, person x moves, person y moves in. person y tries to play bzflag, can't get on any servers, figures the game is busted, goes to the bulletin board, is banned there too. does not play. |
| 22:18.18 | Tupone | why is banned at board ? |
| 22:18.21 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@orchid.user) |
| 22:18.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid] by ChanServ |
| 22:18.45 | DTRemenak | or person x gets his place of work masterbanned. persons y z a b and c all try to play but can't. no message so they just figure it's busted, and leave. |
| 22:19.19 | Tupone | I think we can write why they receive no messages? all masterbanned? |
| 22:19.28 | Tupone | eek |
| 22:19.33 | Tupone | why they receive no messages? all masterbanned? |
| 22:19.36 | DTRemenak | saying "masterbanned - JeffM2501 is a cheater" means that they can go say "Yo Jeff, you're a jerk, you got work masterbanned." |
| 22:20.12 | DTRemenak | it "facilitates communications" I guess |
| 22:20.52 | Tupone | Masterbanned people will be just a few I guess. we can post a list on the bzbb |
| 22:21.03 | DTRemenak | if all they get is "Error connecting to server" then what? |
| 22:21.15 | DTRemenak | they figure the server's busted, or bzflag's busted, or their network's busted |
| 22:22.01 | DTRemenak | the list is available. people are not likely to know what to look for though. which one affects me? |
| 22:22.13 | Tupone | However, I know people can use iptables to protect from that kind of dos. I don't like it, but I don't know any kind of server .. |
| 22:22.26 | Tupone | s/know/own/ |
| 22:22.47 | Tupone | so ... let's get dos |
| 22:22.50 | DTRemenak | heh, suppose we could do what ITS does here...have a page to look it up. "Am I masterbanned or not?". automatically get the sender ip address and check against the list |
| 22:22.53 | *** part/#bzflag Aribeth (~Eowyn@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net) |
| 22:22.57 | *** join/#bzflag SportChicky (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net) |
| 22:23.34 | DTRemenak | still, there are many other ways to dos a server. most of them less work |
| 22:23.36 | *** join/#bzflag Aribeth (~Eowyn@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net) |
| 22:24.05 | Tupone | the one to dos bzflag is pretty easy and do need just 200 packets |
| 22:24.09 | DTRemenak | e.g. set up a looping script to keep 50 clients connecting and downloading the world |
| 22:24.16 | Tupone | any 10/20 seconds? |
| 22:24.36 | Tupone | ok, but if that is materbanned, he cannot |
| 22:24.42 | blast007 | DTRemenak: the DoS attack that Tupone is talking about doesn't flood the connection with data, it just hogs up all the player slots |
| 22:25.11 | DTRemenak | blast007, so why don't we fix the problem then, instead of changing the ban system? |
| 22:25.15 | Aribeth | that was weird. i could tell conversations were going on, but nothing showed in the screen |
| 22:26.08 | Tupone | the way I'want to fix is just rejecting the connection from known IP |
| 22:26.13 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_linux (~blast@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 22:26.48 | DTRemenak | that's a bad way, quite honestly. unless someone's masterbanned they can still dos whomever. and most people who would want to can get dynamic ips and cannot be masterbanned effectively. |
| 22:26.49 | blast007_linux | apparently my wifi at home just went down ;) |
| 22:27.33 | blast007_linux | what would a way to fix the massive connection problem be? |
| 22:27.41 | DTRemenak | the master ban list is really only effective for keeping cheaters and spammers out of the way of players |
| 22:28.02 | blast007_linux | if they don't send a MsgEnter after X seconds, drop them? |
| 22:28.06 | DTRemenak | blast007: well, what is the specific problem? |
| 22:28.34 | blast007_linux | the problem is that the list server and the stat sites connect like this, to pull player/team stats |
| 22:29.02 | blast007_linux | they don't send a MsgEnter, so you don't see them join |
| 22:29.14 | DTRemenak | ok...so we need a separate interface for stats. |
| 22:29.15 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~Meatwad@host-57-142-230-24.midco.net) |
| 22:29.52 | DTRemenak | preferably through the list server, so bzfs sends to list server, list server exposes as an html or rss or whatever |
| 22:30.12 | blast007_linux | right |
| 22:30.22 | Tupone | DTRemenak: I need to change the behaviour ... people will stay in the server till all the authentication and reverse DNS is done. It is good that bad guy can send whatever message to bzfs ? |
| 22:30.46 | Tupone | now they are banned as soon as they send the enter |
| 22:30.54 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 22:31.27 | Chestal | n8 |
| 22:31.29 | DTRemenak | Tupone, how about this: set it up to reject any messages other than whatever comes before MsgEnter and MsgEnter itself from masterbanned folks. Then kick them off once they send MsgEnter. |
| 22:31.30 | Chestal | oopsa |
| 22:33.09 | Tupone | we need also a timeout on closing the connection , that AFAIKm is not there |
| 22:33.39 | Tupone | There is no protection agains any one who really want to attacjk a server |
| 22:34.00 | DTRemenak | ok. so we need protection against _anyone_ who wants to attack the server, not against just masterbanned people |
| 22:34.02 | Tupone | and the expertise needed is really low |
| 22:34.09 | Tupone | yeah |
| 22:34.18 | DTRemenak | to me those are two separate problems |
| 22:34.42 | Tupone | ok, you propose another list of banned people for dos? |
| 22:34.57 | jpa- | hmm, any good guesses why glxgears says "Error: couldn't get an RGB, Double-buffered visual." |
| 22:35.13 | DTRemenak | Tupone, I propose we fix holes that allow easy DOS :) |
| 22:35.29 | Tupone | hehe, good luck |
| 22:35.37 | DTRemenak | personally if someone attacks my server I add them to ipfw |
| 22:35.56 | Tupone | Do all the server owner have your expertise ? |
| 22:36.03 | blast007 | maybe allow one or two connections (ones that haven't sent a MsgEnter) from the same IP? |
| 22:36.27 | Tupone | so we avoid people playing at work :) |
| 22:36.52 | DTRemenak | why can we not send MsgReject followed by MsgSuperKill before MsgEnter is sent to us? |
| 22:37.17 | DTRemenak | would that need additional client handling? |
| 22:37.33 | blast007 | no, that wouldn't prevent more than two people from playing on the same connection |
| 22:37.48 | blast007 | it would prevent more than two people who _haven't_ sent a MsgEnter |
| 22:38.03 | DTRemenak | blast007, what about robots? |
| 22:38.17 | blast007 | oh yeah, hehe |
| 22:38.56 | Tupone | Could we add a field on masterban like severity |
| 22:39.27 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Legoguy@68.250.253.78) |
| 22:39.45 | DTRemenak | not without changing a lot of other things, no. but actually that sounds like a very good idea |
| 22:39.54 | DTRemenak | because we could tie it in to the normal ban system also |
| 22:40.07 | DTRemenak | essentially allowing complete connection blocking for anyone the server owner chooses |
| 22:40.21 | DTRemenak | I still think that it ought to return some kind of message though |
| 22:40.28 | blast007 | yeah |
| 22:40.51 | blast007 | I think we can send a MsgMessage before they send MsgEnter |
| 22:41.10 | Tupone | The problem is still ... when we close the connection ? |
| 22:41.11 | blast007 | at least the client can, cuz I was just testing a borked script, and it did |
| 22:41.33 | DTRemenak | Tupone, if we send UDP we can close the connection immediately, no? |
| 22:41.46 | DTRemenak | no ack required or anything |
| 22:41.46 | Tupone | we don't open it :) |
| 22:42.00 | DTRemenak | hmmm? |
| 22:42.40 | Tupone | I mean, we get an incoming connection, we look at IP, we reject it |
| 22:43.12 | Tupone | there is no structure setup for the player |
| 22:43.12 | DTRemenak | aah, so never assign a playerid? |
| 22:43.31 | Tupone | yeah, no player id. If we assign it, we can be dos'ed |
| 22:44.02 | DTRemenak | how about setting a special playerid for masterbanned people? allow only one masterbanned connection at a time, send the reject message, close the connection. |
| 22:44.29 | DTRemenak | we have a few playerids reserved and unused that could be assigned to that task |
| 22:44.51 | DTRemenak | iird |
| 22:45.08 | Tupone | lol. forget what I said. Things are becoming too much complicated, and I need sleeping :) |
| 22:45.16 | Tupone | nite |
| 22:45.18 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@Tupone.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 22:45.38 | blast007 | const PlayerId UnusedSpecialPlayer2 = 251; // Available for special needs in the future |
| 22:45.44 | DTRemenak | bingo |
| 22:46.07 | DTRemenak | so make that MasterBannedPlayer = 251. give masterbanned player slot 251. |
| 22:46.15 | DTRemenak | if slot 251 is in use, reject player |
| 22:46.44 | DTRemenak | otherwise send MsgReject |
| 22:46.51 | DTRemenak | then immediately close the connection |
| 22:47.30 | DTRemenak | sound good? |
| 22:47.37 | blast007 | yeah |
| 22:47.55 | DTRemenak | heck, could use that system for _any_ banned player |
| 22:48.15 | DTRemenak | although then we'd have to reassign the playerid if they were antibanned |
| 22:48.26 | DTRemenak | and we have no mechanism for doing that |
| 22:48.51 | DTRemenak | so forget I said that. just masterbanned (un-anti-bannable). |
| 22:49.16 | menotume | need a queue ? |
| 22:49.50 | menotume | or, just one 'holding spot' ? |
| 22:49.50 | DTRemenak | menotume, the way player ids are established a queued player would still take an id |
| 22:50.07 | menotume | uhhh, queue before assinging id |
| 22:50.17 | DTRemenak | there is no "before assigning id" :) |
| 22:50.29 | menotume | huh ? |
| 22:50.32 | menotume | make one ! |
| 22:50.33 | menotume | :D |
| 22:50.34 | blast007 | there could be |
| 22:50.51 | DTRemenak | MsgConnect sends \42\5aBZFS0026<id> |
| 22:51.09 | menotume | o |
| 22:51.15 | DTRemenak | if we change protocol then we can have a playerid request/reply message set |
| 22:51.21 | blast007 | but really, there aren't many masterbanned peoole :) |
| 22:51.24 | menotume | ya, but that's not good now |
| 22:51.25 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:51.54 | DTRemenak | exactly |
| 22:52.08 | *** join/#bzflag ruffle (~chatzilla@142.88.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:52.34 | menotume | i still need to test that (tonight) |
| 22:52.53 | DTRemenak | menotume, different problem |
| 22:53.03 | menotume | it's not checked ? |
| 22:53.09 | menotume | on enter ? |
| 22:53.23 | DTRemenak | a player can fill the player slots while they're waiting to be rejected |
| 22:53.37 | menotume | waiting to be rejected ? |
| 22:53.44 | DTRemenak | because of antiban |
| 22:53.51 | *** part/#bzflag ruffle (~chatzilla@142.88.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:53.53 | menotume | i mean, forget ALL changes |
| 22:53.56 | menotume | for now |
| 22:54.06 | menotume | user local antiban/groups |
| 22:54.12 | menotume | innstead of global groups |
| 22:54.13 | DTRemenak | then how do you let people conect through a hostban? |
| 22:54.25 | menotume | hostban works ok now, yes ? |
| 22:54.29 | DTRemenak | local group still has to wait for global auth |
| 22:54.37 | DTRemenak | err range ban |
| 22:54.47 | menotume | yes, but it will know about ban/antiban before that |
| 22:55.01 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 22:55.04 | *** join/#bzflag ruffle (~chatzilla@142.88.62.81.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:55.21 | menotume | put the anti-banned player in a local group, with ANTIBAN permiss |
| 22:55.29 | DTRemenak | I connect from address A. address A is in banned range R. I am banned. |
| 22:55.52 | menotume | not if you check that player A is locally abti banned, yes ? |
| 22:56.01 | DTRemenak | I am in local group LOCAL.WHITELIST |
| 22:56.12 | DTRemenak | so far so good |
| 22:56.43 | DTRemenak | but, I am not ACTUALLY IN that group until I am authenticated |
| 22:56.55 | DTRemenak | otherwise I might just be some random guy with the name DTRemenak |
| 22:57.15 | DTRemenak | since I have not been added to the group by the server, I'm rejected outright |
| 22:57.18 | menotume | onono -one sec - compny |
| 22:57.22 | DTRemenak | even if I am in fact who I claim |
| 22:57.35 | DTRemenak | unless the server waits for authentication |
| 22:58.08 | menotume | use local auth, or local.global |
| 22:58.17 | menotume | put antibanned player in local group |
| 22:58.31 | DTRemenak | dude you aren't listening |
| 22:58.34 | menotume | i need to test it - it's all 'theroy' right now |
| 22:58.38 | blast007 | menotume: isn't there still a delay? |
| 22:58.42 | menotume | no |
| 22:58.45 | DTRemenak | if I am in a local group I AM STILL GLOBALLY AUTHENTICATED |
| 22:59.03 | DTRemenak | local auth would ALSO be delayed until I type my password |
| 22:59.06 | menotume | gourps.db , userdb, etc are all in memory |
| 22:59.25 | menotume | i did say: USE LOACL AUTH |
| 22:59.29 | menotume | :) |
| 22:59.35 | blast007 | menotume: but it still needs to check if you really _are_ that person, either by global auth, or /identify |
| 22:59.44 | DTRemenak | so how long should it wait for me to type /identify mypassword? |
| 22:59.52 | menotume | ewwwwww |
| 23:00.00 | DTRemenak | even if my client sends it automatically there's network delay |
| 23:00.03 | menotume | i always use auto-ident :) |
| 23:00.09 | menotume | yes, my bad |
| 23:00.23 | DTRemenak | you HAVE to wait for auth, no matter what kind it is :) |
| 23:00.29 | menotume | sry :( |
| 23:00.51 | blast007 | #include psychic.h // Problem solved ;) |
| 23:00.52 | DTRemenak | np, sorry I yelled :) |
| 23:00.59 | menotume | so, local antibans have never worked either ? |
| 23:01.12 | DTRemenak | not against IP no |
| 23:01.15 | menotume | ahh |
| 23:01.15 | DTRemenak | only against hostmask |
| 23:01.52 | menotume | ~menotume-- |
| 23:01.54 | DTRemenak | you can almost always get local auth in faster than host resolution. global auth is kind of a tossup but usually works faster also |
| 23:01.57 | menotume | bummer :) |
| 23:02.07 | DTRemenak | but ip addresses don't need to wait for host resolution :) |
| 23:02.12 | menotume | right |
| 23:02.46 | menotume | ok, so if no token, and playerIP is banned, we put them in a queue .... |
| 23:02.50 | menotume | lol - j/k ! |
| 23:02.53 | DTRemenak | hehehe |
| 23:03.20 | blast007 | when we can do a proto break, we could also do global auth before they fully join |
| 23:03.23 | menotume | R's and S's too |
| 23:03.34 | blast007 | but there would still be an issue with local registration |
| 23:03.35 | DTRemenak | rueues and sueues? |
| 23:03.56 | blast007 | hehe, I just got the joke ;) |
| 23:04.00 | menotume | lol |
| 23:04.00 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:04.57 | menotume | ok, so MsgConnect sends the player id |
| 23:05.01 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 23:05.11 | menotume | is there a MsgJoin ? |
| 23:05.16 | blast007 | MsgEnter |
| 23:05.18 | menotume | or is that MsgAddPLyer ? |
| 23:05.24 | DTRemenak | MsgJoin is for spawn |
| 23:05.29 | DTRemenak | MsgEnter is for game entry |
| 23:05.36 | blast007 | MsgEnter sends stuff like callsign, team, and token |
| 23:05.36 | menotume | it the client dumb enough to forget the first id ? |
| 23:05.43 | DTRemenak | nope |
| 23:05.47 | menotume | crap |
| 23:05.53 | DTRemenak | the id governs all communications |
| 23:06.21 | DTRemenak | what would be way cool is if we could reassign it with another message |
| 23:06.26 | menotume | ya |
| 23:06.41 | DTRemenak | then we could have banned players sit in a special slot until they were authed, then switch to normal players or get kicked off |
| 23:06.55 | menotume | the client dowsn'r care other than to echo it back on outgoing msgs,., right ? |
| 23:07.09 | DTRemenak | as it is we'll be limited to using it for "non-anti-bannable" people |
| 23:07.10 | Pimpinella | just for info: i checked the local antiban combined with local.global and global auth and it sems to work fine for me |
| 23:07.30 | DTRemenak | Pimpinella, what version of bzfs, and using ip or host bans? |
| 23:07.31 | Pimpinella | it's solution for now, but not in the long run |
| 23:07.44 | Pimpinella | ip and HEAD |
| 23:07.57 | DTRemenak | HEAD has bans delayed in order to fix that exact problem |
| 23:08.17 | menotume | wow, already? i missed to much today |
| 23:08.20 | Pimpinella | it worked earlier before though |
| 23:08.38 | menotume | if that's the case, than someone can impersonate |
| 23:08.44 | menotume | to get past a ban |
| 23:08.53 | Pimpinella | not spawn though |
| 23:09.01 | menotume | hmm |
| 23:09.29 | blast007 | supose they could still spam stuff though |
| 23:09.46 | DTRemenak | blast007, that can be fixed easily enough by a message filter |
| 23:09.48 | Pimpinella | yeah, think so, i didn't test i |
| 23:10.13 | DTRemenak | only accept valid messages (e.g. MsgEnter, MsgWorld*) from banned ips |
| 23:10.56 | Pimpinella | the only way to to fix this properly would be to break protokol imho |
| 23:11.03 | DTRemenak | certainly |
| 23:11.08 | menotume | then, allow a banned player in, if he does anything before ident, kick him |
| 23:11.20 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:11.27 | menotume | again though, spam |
| 23:11.38 | menotume | banned players are usually not happy campers |
| 23:11.40 | Pimpinella | would be possible |
| 23:11.51 | DTRemenak | don't accept MsgMessage without "/identify" from banned players |
| 23:11.57 | menotume | well, not spam, but semi-dos |
| 23:12.00 | Pimpinella | yeah |
| 23:12.05 | menotume | right |
| 23:12.05 | blast007 | menotume: if they 'do anything', I would assume that would include talking ;) |
| 23:12.10 | menotume | yep |
| 23:12.12 | DTRemenak | yes, they take a normal player slot :( |
| 23:12.31 | blast007 | yeah, there's still that issue |
| 23:12.39 | menotume | right, but hopefully only for 1-2 seconds |
| 23:12.41 | blast007 | if they don't send a MsgEnter, they won't show up all all |
| 23:12.46 | blast007 | not even in /playerlist |
| 23:12.51 | DTRemenak | menotume, not if they fail to send MsgEnter |
| 23:12.54 | *** part/#bzflag brlcad (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 23:13.12 | blast007 | yet they can still send messages, coming from (UNKNOWN) |
| 23:13.15 | DTRemenak | so they can purposefully obstruct slots for as long as they want |
| 23:13.20 | Pimpinella | ban is performed in addPlayer, no? |
| 23:13.23 | DTRemenak | they can _send_ messages? |
| 23:13.29 | blast007 | teag |
| 23:13.31 | blast007 | yeah* |
| 23:13.37 | DTRemenak | that is seriously broken then |
| 23:13.45 | menotume | as long as they want, until ident show they aren't antibanned? |
| 23:14.07 | DTRemenak | you should not be able to send messages if you haven't sent MsgEnter |
| 23:14.10 | menotume | forget i said that :P |
| 23:14.11 | TheLastSpartan | I've never heard of i said that :P, menotume! |
| 23:14.16 | Pimpinella | yeah, it is |
| 23:14.16 | DTRemenak | menotume, auth doesn't even start until MsgEnter :) |
| 23:14.42 | Pimpinella | so you can fill all available slots just by opening 200 connection |
| 23:14.46 | Pimpinella | s |
| 23:14.58 | menotume | ya |
| 23:15.00 | Pimpinella | whether you're banned or not |
| 23:15.14 | DTRemenak | how about splitting MsgEnter into two parts |
| 23:15.22 | Pimpinella | because you never pass addPlayer |
| 23:15.30 | DTRemenak | MsgAuth sent immediately after connect, and MsgEnter remaining where it is |
| 23:15.33 | menotume | go back to pre 1.7? no dup ips ! |
| 23:15.36 | Pimpinella | DTRemenak: probably in 2.1 |
| 23:15.42 | menotume | hehe Barons |
| 23:15.53 | DTRemenak | Pimpinella, yeah speaking strictly post-protocol-break |
| 23:16.11 | Pimpinella | k, lets branch :) |
| 23:17.00 | DTRemenak | so the server could get MsgAuth and either 1. send the player his playerid if there are no outstanding bans, 2. hold the player until auth is resolved if there ARE outstanding bans. |
| 23:17.21 | Pimpinella | ack |
| 23:17.31 | Pimpinella | thats what i thought of |
| 23:17.44 | Pimpinella | kepp the player in limbo |
| 23:17.50 | DTRemenak | so antibanned people would have to wait longer in order to play |
| 23:17.51 | DTRemenak | big deal |
| 23:18.07 | Pimpinella | not really |
| 23:18.17 | DTRemenak | sarcasm :) |
| 23:18.42 | Pimpinella | even now i often get kicked for trying to spawn before i'm authenticated |
| 23:18.42 | DTRemenak | could even allow them to download the world I suppose |
| 23:19.03 | DTRemenak | yeah, it would also help with that |
| 23:19.11 | DTRemenak | because even if it sent you a playerid it could still process auth |
| 23:19.23 | DTRemenak | while you were doing flag negotiation and world and texture transfer |
| 23:19.41 | Pimpinella | nite |
| 23:19.45 | menotume | g'nite |
| 23:20.20 | DTRemenak | suppose I should wait until I have at least a little actual code |
| 23:21.03 | DTRemenak | ghosting and stuff all becomes ridiculously much easier with that setup too |
| 23:21.27 | DTRemenak | 'cause you can ghost into the same player slot even if the server is full |
| 23:21.36 | menotume | ahh |
| 23:22.13 | DTRemenak | antibans get fixed, potential dos gets fixed, spawn-before-auth gets better |
| 23:22.23 | DTRemenak | sounds like a good deal to me |
| 23:22.33 | menotume | yep |
| 23:22.42 | menotume | glad i thought of it |
| 23:22.44 | menotume | :D |
| 23:23.01 | menotume | does the client reject msgs if it gets one that doesn't have it's id ? |
| 23:23.42 | DTRemenak | dunno |
| 23:24.02 | DTRemenak | bunch of stuff will have to change in order for it to work correctly. probably need a temp id even :S |
| 23:24.07 | menotume | it not, it might as well just reassign it's id as it gets them :) |
| 23:24.14 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:24.29 | blast007 | menotume: the playerid isn't in most packets, afaik |
| 23:24.39 | DTRemenak | blast007, playerid should be in ALL packets |
| 23:24.48 | DTRemenak | otherwise you have no destination info |
| 23:25.29 | DTRemenak | hm, maybe not |
| 23:25.30 | blast007 | hmm...I don't recall doing that with my PHP code |
| 23:25.33 | DTRemenak | that's interesting |
| 23:25.47 | DTRemenak | yeah, it's not in hardly anything |
| 23:26.02 | blast007 | starts out with packet type, and length |
| 23:26.10 | blast007 | then the rest of the data |
| 23:26.20 | menotume | doesn't need it |
| 23:28.46 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@c220-239-40-45.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:28.56 | menotume | just put everything in a queue, it'll work out |
| 23:29.03 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 23:29.14 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:30.53 | DTRemenak | when tupone returns I'll bounce ideas off of him. if he's ok with it I guess we can.......branch.... |
| 23:38.36 | SportyGal | branch! branch! branch! |
| 23:39.45 | DTRemenak | we need to release 2.0.4 sometime too :( |
| 23:40.00 | blast007 | what needs to be finished before that? |
| 23:40.38 | DTRemenak | the ban stuff need to be cleaned up. the problem some people are having with not being able to contact the list server with 2.0.3 needs to be fixed. |
| 23:41.08 | blast007 | k |
| 23:41.30 | DTRemenak | I think that's it. check the top of the TODO list also. |
