irclog2html for #bzflag on 20050610

`00:09.42`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm it may not be too bad at all`
`00:11.13`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/size.png`
`00:11.21`	`JeffM2501`	`that is a 5foot 6inch person`
`00:11.39`	`RichardRauch`	`With honking big boots.`
`00:11.58`	`JeffM2501`	`don't knock the boots :)`
`00:12.43`	`RichardRauch`	`Is she protecting the tank, or trying to hide it?`
`00:12.44`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`00:12.59`	`RichardRauch`	`"Nothing to see here, folks. Be about your business..."`
`00:13.06`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`00:13.12`	`JeffM2501`	`she's in default animation pose 1`
`00:13.32`	`creeperz`	`haha`
`00:13.34`	`RichardRauch`	`What modeler did you use to construct her?`
`00:13.53`	`JeffM2501`	`I did not`
`00:14.00`	`JeffM2501`	`she is an older quake3 model`
`00:14.03`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah.`
`00:14.27`	`JeffM2501`	`she was just around`
`00:14.32`	`JeffM2501`	`and anatomicly correct`
`00:14.48`	`RichardRauch`	`I cannot verify that last.`
`00:15.25`	`JeffM2501`	`god that's an ugly tank`
`00:15.38`	`wegstar`	`hehe`
`00:16.19`	`creeperz`	`haha`
`00:16.29`	`creeperz`	`wish I could hide a tank behind me`
`00:17.03`	`*** join/#bzflag yakuzabob (~4316255a@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`00:17.13`	`yakuzabob`	`allo`
`00:18.33`	`yakuzabob`	`can anyone tell me the right way to download and run user created maps?`
`00:18.47`	`JeffM2501`	`you can save them when you are playing`
`00:18.50`	`RichardRauch`	`Download and run user created maps.`
`00:18.56`	`JeffM2501`	`you can download them from bzbb`
`00:19.01`	`RichardRauch`	`nThere, I told you to do it.`
`00:19.02`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`00:19.04`	`JeffM2501`	`to run them start a server with -world yourworldhere`
`00:19.14`	`JeffM2501`	`there are examples on the forums`
`00:19.48`	`yakuzabob`	`can I access a command line ingame to launch a server with that switch?`
`00:19.57`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`00:20.11`	`JeffM2501`	`run it from an OS command line`
`00:20.15`	`JeffM2501`	`or a modified shortcut`
`00:20.25`	`yakuzabob`	`so in the windows world, I'd add that switch to s shortcut let's say to bzflag?`
`00:20.32`	`yakuzabob`	`ah, okay, gotcha`
`00:20.32`	`JeffM2501`	`bzfs`
`00:20.38`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag itself is NOT a server`
`00:20.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't know how to serve a game at all`
`00:21.00`	`yakuzabob`	`so does bzflag simply lauch bzfs as a process then?`
`00:21.01`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't even have a map reader`
`00:21.03`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`00:21.13`	`JeffM2501`	`it just builds up a command line and calls it`
`00:21.22`	`yakuzabob`	`gotcha. You're a gentleman and a scholar sir.`
`00:21.46`	`yakuzabob`	`one last q - what folder should downloaded maps live in?`
`00:22.00`	`JeffM2501`	`dosn't mater`
`00:22.07`	`yakuzabob`	`it'll find em?`
`00:22.10`	`JeffM2501`	`simplest is to put them in the same place as bzfs`
`00:22.16`	`JeffM2501`	`no, you specify the relitive path`
`00:22.21`	`yakuzabob`	`solid. thanks mate`
`00:22.25`	`JeffM2501`	`hence why puting them in the same forlder is best :)`
`00:23.06`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`00:23.06`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`00:23.06`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`00:23.14`	`RichardRauch`	`Heh.`
`00:23.39`	`RichardRauch`	`I just tried a variation on my map and got negative coords (sloppy typo). I'm surprised that you can see`
`00:23.42`	`RichardRauch`	`things below the ground...`
`00:25.39`	`JeffM2501`	`the ground dosn't block the depth buffer`
`00:25.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes you see all things below the ground`
`00:31.16`	`RichardRauch`	`(nod)`
`00:31.34`	`RichardRauch`	`Except for that part of a tank which is burrowing underground...(^&`
`00:32.21`	`*** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@BearPerson.sourcemage)`
`00:32.41`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, it's "special"`
`00:39.50`	`*** join/#bzflag bz6096 (~a8d16122@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`00:40.40`	`bz6096`	`uz zeb kuba?`
`00:41.04`	`bz6096`	`:>`
`00:41.09`	`bz6096`	`ahhhhh`
`00:41.29`	`bz6096`	`http://www.jmin.za.org`
`00:41.49`	`bz6096`	`kuben?`
`00:43.03`	`bz6096`	`kaka mez zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZz ;p`
`00:53.04`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:846b:0:0:0:0:1)`
`00:55.31`	`*** part/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-24-92-83-134.midsouth.res.rr.com)`
`01:37.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Sharpshooter (~44e1e225@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:47.15`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`01:47.15`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`01:47.15`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`01:50.40`	`*** join/#bzflag spldart (~vircuser@cpe-67-10-221-4.houston.res.rr.com)`
`02:10.00`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com)`
`02:14.38`	`blast007`	`heh :)`
`02:16.41`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, I'd say you should probably talk to TimRiker and brlcad first :)`
`02:17.19`	`JeffM2501`	`but that would be difrent`
`02:17.23`	`DTRemenak`	`as long as it's consistent, I don't care :)`
`02:17.37`	`JeffM2501`	`looking at automated foramting tools`
`02:20.06`	`DTRemenak`	`most of those will ruin some of the "special" formatting we've used (e.g. lining up parenthesis in multi-stage boolean statements)`
`02:20.43`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: brlcad has already gone through this exercise... bcpp, etc... you may want to see what he figured out`
`02:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`yes but he thinks the current method is "ok"`
`02:21.37`	`DTRemenak`	`it is :)`
`02:22.00`	`DTRemenak`	`as long as dufuses like you actually set thier editors properly ;)`
`02:22.07`	`JeffM2501`	`nevva`
`02:22.19`	`JeffM2501`	`hey living in a mud hut was OK for our ancestors`
`02:22.22`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't see us doing it`
`02:22.50`	`DTRemenak`	`we do, our mud's just better :)`
`02:23.01`	`JeffM2501`	`and has INTERNET!`
`02:23.03`	`DTRemenak`	`and we have interior walls`
`02:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`see I just want to make better mud`
`02:23.18`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:23.19`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not saying convert the thing to ObjectiveC`
`02:23.24`	`DTRemenak`	`haha`
`02:23.28`	`DTRemenak`	`if you said that I'd shoot you`
`02:23.38`	`BenUrban`	`elbonian mud is quite nutritious`
`02:23.39`	`JeffM2501`	`just make use of the fact that displays are a "tad" larger these days`
`02:24.03`	`DTRemenak`	`you're still going to have an 80-character limit`
`02:24.10`	`JeffM2501`	`why?`
`02:24.17`	`DTRemenak`	`nobody's going to change that`
`02:24.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I would`
`02:24.23`	`DTRemenak`	`it's standard`
`02:24.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm a rebel`
`02:24.30`	`DTRemenak`	`I know`
`02:24.36`	`DTRemenak`	`rebels get shot :)`
`02:24.36`	`trepan`	`folks read better at 66 chars/line, or thereabouts`
`02:24.44`	`JeffM2501`	`or they start new nations :)`
`02:25.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah breaking up long lines is not a bad thing`
`02:25.16`	`JeffM2501`	`for that reason, not for "80 is what old terminals use"`
`02:25.41`	`BenUrban`	`80 is what all terminals se by defult`
`02:25.42`	`JeffM2501`	`the bigest thing that bugs me is the if () {`
`02:25.42`	`DTRemenak`	`when I hit eterm, xterm, or rxvt, it still starts up in 80-character mode`
`02:25.43`	`BenUrban`	`*default`
`02:25.55`	`DTRemenak`	`why does that bug you?`
`02:26.03`	`JeffM2501`	`for me it's really hard to read`
`02:26.21`	`DTRemenak`	`I hate having brackets on thier own lines, it interrupts the flow`
`02:26.22`	`JeffM2501`	`brackets that line up match better in my visual field`
`02:26.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it helps the flow`
`02:26.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I know where it matches`
`02:26.46`	`JeffM2501`	`probably just what we are all used to`
`02:26.50`	`DTRemenak`	`I know where it matches because when I put my cursor over it the other one goes bold :)`
`02:26.57`	`BenUrban`	`lmao`
`02:27.08`	`JeffM2501`	`{} for single line thigns is also wierd to me`
`02:27.16`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, I get that too`
`02:27.24`	`JeffM2501`	`but when I scan up or down for the matching bold`
`02:27.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I look at the same indeent`
`02:27.31`	`DTRemenak`	`you mean } else { ? or { statement; } ?`
`02:27.53`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't mind } else {, but { statement; } bothers me`
`02:27.55`	`JeffM2501`	`if (){ \n single line thing;\n }`
`02:28.03`	`BenUrban`	`{} should be required no matter how many statements there are`
`02:28.10`	`JeffM2501`	`BenUrban, why`
`02:28.12`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a waste`
`02:28.14`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`02:28.19`	`JeffM2501`	`let the computer HELP you :)`
`02:28.20`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, it's a good thing`
`02:28.28`	`DTRemenak`	`it's a different scope, mark it that way`
`02:28.35`	`JeffM2501`	`if it matched indent then I'd live with it`
`02:28.46`	`BenUrban`	`if (condition) do_something; do_something_else;`
`02:28.50`	`JeffM2501`	`it bugs me if it dosn't have an else and is one line`
`02:29.02`	`BenUrban`	`ever seen that happen?`
`02:29.08`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`02:29.11`	`DTRemenak`	`if it doesn't have an else, DEVINFO says you can leave the brackets off`
`02:29.12`	`BenUrban`	`then you're lucky`
`02:29.14`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't put crap on the same line`
`02:29.16`	`JeffM2501`	`if ( thing)`
`02:29.18`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`02:29.21`	`JeffM2501`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:29.22`	`JeffM2501`	`else`
`02:29.27`	`JeffM2501`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:29.29`	`BenUrban`	`not necessarily one line`
`02:29.30`	`JeffM2501`	`;)`
`02:29.32`	`DTRemenak`	`that's valid with devinfo`
`02:29.38`	`trepan`	`my turn: i very much dislike if (exp)\n command; without {}'s`
`02:29.39`	`JeffM2501`	`no its not`
`02:29.45`	`DTRemenak`	`yes it is`
`02:29.50`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah singles in bith`
`02:29.51`	`DTRemenak`	`it's only if one part is multi-line`
`02:29.52`	`trepan`	`it's just begging for errors`
`02:29.55`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah your right`
`02:29.58`	`BenUrban`	`indeed`
`02:30.09`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, I see it as a waste`
`02:30.15`	`DTRemenak`	`I happen to agree with trepan anyway`
`02:30.16`	`BenUrban`	`waste of what?`
`02:30.20`	`trepan`	`i see it as consistency`
`02:30.23`	`JeffM2501`	`we could all use python and just live with indents :)`
`02:30.27`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`02:30.29`	`BenUrban`	`yes`
`02:30.29`	`BenUrban`	`please`
`02:30.41`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, pybzflag is still in cvs :)`
`02:30.45`	`JeffM2501`	`BenUrban, it was started, why haven't you finished it yet?`
`02:30.54`	`BenUrban`	`it was?!`
`02:31.01`	`JeffM2501`	`as dtr said`
`02:31.03`	`DTRemenak`	`if you're even thinking about finishing it let me check in some fixes first :S`
`02:31.03`	`BenUrban`	`i never knew about it...`
`02:31.07`	`JeffM2501`	`pybzflag is in cvs`
`02:31.11`	`DTRemenak`	`long time ago`
`02:31.12`	`JeffM2501`	`then I guess you don't read much`
`02:31.14`	`DTRemenak`	`far far away`
`02:31.24`	`DTRemenak`	`more like he's new`
`02:31.43`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah but the first thing I did was scan cvs and ask "whats that.. whats that..." :)`
`02:31.57`	`BenUrban`	`the first thing i did was emerge bzflag`
`02:31.59`	`DTRemenak`	`pybzflag died in 1.9...that's over two years ago :)`
`02:32.03`	`BenUrban`	`and then i proceeded to play it`
`02:32.17`	`BenUrban`	`emerge bzflag doesn't include pybzflag`
`02:32.31`	`DTRemenak`	`it's a pain to get running`
`02:32.32`	`BenUrban`	`neither does the osx binary`
`02:32.38`	`JeffM2501`	`BenUrban, I built it from source before there was a CVS`
`02:32.38`	`DTRemenak`	`has about 1000 dependencies`
`02:32.55`	`BenUrban`	`what does? pybzflag?`
`02:32.58`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`02:33.05`	`BenUrban`	`like what?`
`02:33.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it's "fun" to get working`
`02:33.09`	`BenUrban`	`other than the sdl stuff`
`02:33.10`	`JeffM2501`	`numeric`
`02:33.12`	`JeffM2501`	`gl`
`02:33.13`	`DTRemenak`	`python, pygame, pyopengl, pynumeric, etc`
`02:33.22`	`BenUrban`	`keep going`
`02:33.30`	`JeffM2501`	`it's basicly the same stuff as pybzedit`
`02:33.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it probalby needs twisted too`
`02:33.40`	`BenUrban`	`installed`
`02:33.44`	`BenUrban`	`neext`
`02:33.47`	`JeffM2501`	`then give it a go`
`02:33.52`	`JeffM2501`	`easyest way to find out`
`02:34.04`	`BenUrban`	`is it in the source dist?`
`02:34.07`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`02:34.11`	`BenUrban`	`bah`
`02:34.11`	`JeffM2501`	`it's in CVS`
`02:34.17`	`DTRemenak`	`pyCg`
`02:34.41`	`JeffM2501`	`then dude your in the wrong line of work :)`
`02:34.45`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`02:34.49`	`BenUrban`	`i'm simply not used to it`
`02:34.52`	`JeffM2501`	`for me it's one right click away`
`02:34.53`	`JeffM2501`	`:)`
`02:34.57`	`BenUrban`	`!!`
`02:34.58`	guu`	`BenUrban: WTF?`
`02:35.04`	`DTRemenak`	`that looks like about the list`
`02:35.10`	`BenUrban`	thanks guu`
`02:35.11`	guu`	`No idea!`
`02:35.13`	`JeffM2501`	`tort rocks!`
`02:35.19`	`bryjen`	`guu rocks`
`02:35.30`	`BenUrban`	guu` RoX
`02:35.31`	guu`	`BenUrban: Poke me there again, and you'll pull back a stump.`
`02:35.44`	`JeffM2501`	guu` rocks!
`02:35.44`	guu`	`yes I do`
`02:35.48`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`02:35.53`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what you were looking for`
`02:36.01`	`BenUrban`	`mine was funnier :P`
`02:36.08`	`bryjen`	is she wearing a little hat ` ?
`02:36.16`	`JeffM2501`	guu`, nick guu
`02:36.35`	`JeffM2501`	`she got screwed up in a split yesteday`
`02:37.06`	`bryjen`	`maybe this is what bz tanks are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_classification#Tankette`
`02:37.30`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh I did a test`
`02:37.34`	`JeffM2501`	`meters works`
`02:37.35`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/size.png`
`02:37.38`	`BenUrban`	`so what gui allows you to use a single right click to grab a cvs snapshot?`
`02:37.44`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`02:37.48`	`JeffM2501`	`guu does not`
`02:37.49`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: I'm sorry, that makes NO FREAKING SENSE to me what so ever.`
`02:37.53`	`JeffM2501`	`but tort does`
`02:37.55`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`02:38.13`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.tortoisecvs.org/`
`02:38.46`	`BenUrban`	`dammit`
`02:38.49`	`bryjen`	`that woman has seriously big.... boots ;)`
`02:39.14`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd think it would be a tanklet, like an applet`
`02:39.28`	`JeffM2501`	`yes her boots are large`
`02:39.45`	`BenUrban`	`bah`
`02:39.49`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it'd be a light tank`
`02:39.53`	`JeffM2501`	`since it has the main gun`
`02:39.54`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10pybzflag/ (15 files in 9 dirs): Miscellaneous updates in case someone actually looks at this. Run on python 2.4, update to 1910 proto, fix a bunch of messages for 1.10-ish.`
`02:40.02`	`JeffM2501`	`BenUrban, it's not on the tosh, tho it should be`
`02:40.06`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`02:40.06`	`DTRemenak`	`there.`
`02:40.10`	`BenUrban`	`i'm back on gentoo`
`02:40.13`	`DTRemenak`	`see, it exists ;)`
`02:40.24`	`JeffM2501`	`it shoudl exist in x windows as well`
`02:40.25`	`BenUrban`	`hehehe`
`02:40.27`	`JeffM2501`	`but sadly does not`
`02:40.38`	`BenUrban`	`well it's more complicated in x`
`02:40.41`	`JeffM2501`	`its' very nice for file management`
`02:40.51`	`BenUrban`	`since there's more than one gui browser to choose from`
`02:40.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`02:41.02`	`JeffM2501`	`then hell it shoudl be part of ONE of em`
`02:41.09`	`BenUrban`	`yeah`
`02:41.09`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd live with a konq plugin`
`02:41.26`	`BenUrban`	`well who knows, maybe nautilus 2.10 has one`
`02:41.32`	`JeffM2501`	`with good icon coloring I can tell exactly what folders have files I've changed`
`02:41.35`	`BenUrban`	`heh, just finished emerging nautilus 2.10`
`02:41.42`	`JeffM2501`	`it tells me what I'm commitin before I commit`
`02:41.49`	`BenUrban`	`nice`
`02:41.50`	`JeffM2501`	`I can do a diff on each file before commiting`
`02:41.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it's great`
`02:42.23`	`BenUrban`	`cvs2web doesn't do cvs justice :(`
`02:42.28`	`BenUrban`	`or whatever it's called`
`02:42.55`	`trepan`	`cvs diff > diff, and then a review with change coloring works just fine ;)`
`02:42.58`	`BenUrban`	`btw on the mac scm is integrated in the dev app`
`02:43.22`	`BenUrban`	`it does cvs, svn, and some expensive one`
`02:43.43`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah but it's put into there crap file viewer in X-code`
`02:43.48`	`JeffM2501`	`not the file system I'm used to using`
`02:43.50`	`BenUrban`	`yeah`
`02:43.52`	`BenUrban`	`tre`
`02:43.54`	`BenUrban`	`true`
`02:44.01`	`JeffM2501`	`OS allready has 1 way to deal with files, why do I need 2?`
`02:44.14`	`BenUrban`	`heh`
`02:44.23`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, yeah tort dosn't do anything that CLI can't do, it just presents it nice`
`02:44.25`	`BenUrban`	`most ides use the concept of a project`
`02:44.40`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`02:44.47`	`JeffM2501`	`but bzflag is more then just source files`
`02:44.53`	`JeffM2501`	`this works for any file`
`02:44.54`	`JeffM2501`	`docs`
`02:44.54`	`JeffM2501`	`data`
`02:45.06`	`BenUrban`	`heh, those go into the project file`
`02:45.29`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, what do you think about including the make files in the windows projects as non buildable files, so it's easyer to find them when we add files`
`02:45.40`	`BenUrban`	`just don't try to do a straight copy from scm into the app`
`02:45.48`	`BenUrban`	`since it will include the scm crap`
`02:45.49`	`JeffM2501`	`I've been doing that for plugins and it's been ince`
`02:45.51`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, that sounds like a wonderful idea, and I wish I would have had it ;)`
`02:45.57`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`02:46.07`	`DTRemenak`	`about a year ago ;)`
`02:46.14`	`BenUrban`	`lmao`
`02:46.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll make a makefile dir for each sub then`
`02:47.31`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm I think a bz tank is biger then this thing`
`02:47.37`	`JeffM2501`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_Renault_FT-17.jpg`
`02:47.44`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe it's a "medium" tank`
`02:48.25`	`JeffM2501`	`in my pic the girl is scaled to 5 foot 6`
`02:48.59`	`JeffM2501`	`asuming tank size is in meters`
`02:49.21`	`trepan`	`gravity is ...`
`02:49.42`	`JeffM2501`	`it's 10 isn't it?`
`02:49.59`	`trepan`	`-9.8m/s^2`
`02:50.05`	`trepan`	`metric, babe`
`02:50.06`	`JeffM2501`	`in game?`
`02:50.12`	`trepan`	`yup`
`02:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`02:50.29`	`trepan`	`tank speed is 25m/s, x 3.6 for km/s`
`02:50.35`	`JeffM2501`	`then the tanks are a smidge small for a "main battle tank"`
`02:50.43`	`JeffM2501`	`but that can work`
`02:51.09`	`trepan`	`s\km/s\km/h`
`02:51.13`	`JeffM2501`	`I just wanted to make sure that it made sense with a unit being a meter`
`02:51.22`	`JeffM2501`	`how fast does that work out to be?`
`02:51.24`	`JeffM2501`	`in kph?`
`02:51.30`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh`
`02:51.31`	`JeffM2501`	`h`
`02:51.43`	`JeffM2501`	`3.6 kph`
`02:51.45`	`JeffM2501`	`that seems slow`
`02:51.53`	`JeffM2501`	`what is walking speed in kph?`
`02:51.59`	`trepan`	`90 km/h`
`02:52.05`	`JeffM2501`	`ok that seems better :)`
`02:52.11`	`trepan`	`_x_ 3.6 :)`
`02:52.27`	`JeffM2501`	`what is walking/running speed in kph?`
`02:52.35`	`trepan`	`5 km/h`
`02:52.41`	`trepan`	`...walk`
`02:52.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so run is maybe 10-15?`
`02:53.02`	`trepan`	`yup`
`02:53.09`	`JeffM2501`	`not horible`
`02:53.34`	`JeffM2501`	`so a tank can cross a standard map in 32 seconds`
`02:54.21`	`trepan`	`and shots are 100 m/s or 360 km/h`
`02:54.44`	`JeffM2501`	`what would m/s be for a runner?`
`02:54.57`	`trepan`	`10 km/h / 3.6`
`02:55.16`	`JeffM2501`	`2.7`
`02:55.32`	`JeffM2501`	`or aprox 4 for 15ish`
`02:55.41`	`trepan`	`although 10km/h is really a fast runner, i do better for full 10km races :)`
`02:55.50`	`trepan`	`s/is/isn't`
`02:55.52`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`02:55.59`	`JeffM2501`	`that's why I was saying like 15`
`02:56.13`	`JeffM2501`	`so it'd like a runner like 200 seconds to cross a map`
`02:56.16`	`trepan`	`world record is better then 20 km/h for 10km distance`
`02:56.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so 15 isn't bad, good heroic speed`
`02:56.53`	`JeffM2501`	`runner would be 6.25x slower then a tank`
`02:56.54`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm`
`02:57.01`	`trepan`	`100 m sprint is less then 10 s, and that's with startup acceleration`
`02:57.28`	`JeffM2501`	`10m/s that's bookin`
`02:57.33`	`trepan`	`so better then 10m/s for a sprinter`
`02:57.45`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:57.53`	`trepan`	`they're probably getting close to 12.5 or 15 m/s by then end of it (i'm guessing)`
`02:58.01`	`JeffM2501`	`well I'd think you couldn't spint and aim at the same time`
`02:58.25`	`BenUrban`	`only women can :P`
`02:59.30`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm so 6x slower, but can sidestep, don't show on radar, but are squishy`
`02:59.44`	`BenUrban`	`heh, sqishy`
`02:59.45`	`JeffM2501`	`wonder if that'd be worth it`
`02:59.55`	`bryjen`	`http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/ProjectHistory says speeds and distances were intentionally made non-real cuz too much realism sucked ;)`
`02:59.58`	`BenUrban`	`what kind of weapon?`
`03:00.10`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`03:00.14`	`trepan`	`bryjen: esp. shotSpeed, i imagine`
`03:00.17`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah speeds and distances were shortened`
`03:00.30`	`JeffM2501`	`dosn't look like sizes really were tho`
`03:00.54`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm, tho would a normal tank shot go over a persons head?`
`03:00.58`	`BenUrban`	`"What are you saying, that I can dodge bullets?" "No Neo, what I'm saying is that when you're ready, you won't have to."`
`03:01.22`	`BenUrban`	`sorry i had to`
`03:01.35`	`JeffM2501`	`ummm ... sure you did.....`
`03:17.01`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:846b:0:0:0:0:1)`
`03:19.06`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:846b:0:0:0:0:1)`
`03:26.30`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:846b:0:0:0:0:1)`
`03:28.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I think the sizes are fine :)`
`03:28.52`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/standoff.png`
`03:30.21`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`03:32.02`	`bryjen`	`perhaps a low-velocity projectile would fall fast enough...`
`03:32.37`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe`
`03:32.39`	`bryjen`	`or a the wake of a fast one would knock her down`
`03:34.43`	`bryjen`	`big gloves too`
`03:35.02`	`bryjen`	`she'd be able to punch it to death ;)`
`03:35.46`	`learner`	`that's pretty cool :)`
`03:37.10`	`JeffM2501`	`she's a tad taller`
`03:37.17`	`JeffM2501`	`5'8"`
`03:42.21`	`trepan`	`2" heels?`
`03:43.26`	`JeffM2501`	`just difrent scale`
`03:44.16`	`trepan`	`twas rhetorical ;)`
`03:44.21`	`trepan`	`tank is scaled too?`
`03:48.15`	`trepan`	`i ask because 5'8" ~ 178 cm, and the muzzleHeight is 157 cm`
`03:48.33`	`trepan`	`although the tank width looks right (2.8m)`
`03:49.17`	`trepan`	`s/178/173`
`03:50.36`	`JeffM2501`	`no same tank`
`03:50.44`	`JeffM2501`	`perspective`
`03:55.21`	`trepan`	`perspective xforms keep straight lines straight, maybe she shrunk?`
`04:08.57`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi (~frank@p54819562.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`04:20.11`	`jpa_`	`mroning`
`04:20.13`	`jpa_`	`bye`
`04:29.36`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`04:42.03`	`*** join/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`04:47.39`	`jolie`	`morning`
`05:04.42`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`05:10.01`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@69.106.106.187)`
`05:10.01`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`05:14.52`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-68-79-193-151.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`05:41.53`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`05:59.21`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`06:06.19`	`ruskie`	`good morrow all`
`06:20.17`	`Pimpi`	`;)`
`06:47.54`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o jolie] by JeffM2501`
`06:48.00`	`jolie`	`^_^`
`07:11.02`	`purple_cow`	`whoa, pybzflag commits?`
`07:11.13`	`jolie`	`hi purpie`
`07:11.33`	`*** join/#bzflag cods_ (~admin@tuxee.net)`
`07:12.05`	`jolie`	`banyuls!`
`07:12.27`	`purple_cow`	`heh`
`07:21.06`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A465C1.access.telenet.be)`
`07:24.19`	`*** join/#bzflag dvshadow (~dvshadow@ip68-96-87-185.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`07:30.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`07:30.43`	`dvshadow`	`hey`
`07:30.50`	`Tegan`	`nhi`
`07:31.57`	`dvshadow`	`care for a game?`
`07:32.02`	`Birdie`	`hi tegan, long time no see`
`07:32.20`	`Tegan`	`hi Birdie`
`07:34.15`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-12-71.paradise.net.nz)`
`07:39.38`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~a@fw.newitech.pl)`
`07:44.40`	`*** part/#bzflag dvshadow (~dvshadow@ip68-96-87-185.oc.oc.cox.net)`
`07:58.53`	`*** part/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`08:01.10`	`*** join/#bzflag bz9560 (~d1580c3d@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`08:10.35`	`*** join/#bzflag bz7021 (~0c2e6ab7@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`08:13.44`	`Pimpi`	`wow, pybzflag updated to 1910 ;)`
`08:49.45`	`*** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-ull-206-118.44-151.net24.it)`
`09:29.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`09:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`09:36.33`	`sniperiid`	`hey`
`09:36.39`	`sniperiid`	`i am registered on forum`
`09:36.45`	`sniperiid`	`Global login wont work`
`09:36.54`	`sniperiid`	`it says " Global login rejected, bad token "`
`09:36.58`	`sniperiid`	`any idea`
`09:37.04`	`sniperiid`	`ideas*`
`09:37.13`	`sniperiid`	`and i can log in on forum`
`09:46.20`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`09:46.20`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi (~frank@p54819562.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`09:46.20`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-139-255.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`09:46.20`	`*** join/#bzflag guu (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)`
`09:46.20`	`*** join/#bzflag rj-away (~booto@rawmode.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`09:53.32`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:36] sniperiid: 01hey`
`09:53.33`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:36] sniperiid: 01i am registered on forum`
`09:53.33`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:36] sniperiid: 01Global login wont work`
`09:53.33`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:36] sniperiid: 01it says " Global login rejected, bad token "`
`09:53.33`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:37] sniperiid: 01any idea`
`09:53.33`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:37] sniperiid: 01ideas*`
`09:53.35`	`sniperiid`	`04[12:37] sniperiid: 01and i can log in on forum`
`09:59.30`	`*** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@C741c.c.strato-dslnet.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`10:03.48`	`Tegan`	`sniperiid, I don't see why you don't get at least a - sign, if not a +, in bzflag, since you are registered in the forum`
`10:04.08`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`10:04.19`	`sniperiid`	`now im trying to see if works with 2.0.0`
`10:05.33`	`Tegan`	`have you tried deleting your cache directory? or moving it aside`
`10:06.39`	`sniperiid`	`ah`
`10:06.45`	`sniperiid`	`where is cache directory`
`10:07.11`	`Tegan`	`on Windows I don't know, maybe under C:\Program Files\bzflag somewhere (just guessing)`
`10:07.21`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`10:08.07`	`sniperiid`	`no isnt there`
`10:08.13`	`sniperiid`	`nvm...`
`10:10.33`	`Tegan`	`if I had a windows machine handy I'd check`
`10:10.47`	`sniperiid`	`ok ;)`
`10:13.12`	`*** part/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`10:16.40`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-137-210.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`10:18.50`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`10:30.37`	`*** part/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`10:43.29`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`10:43.58`	`CBG`	`Anyone with power to delete something on the bb here?`
`10:44.13`	`CBG`	`The last post on http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3604 needs to be removed... :/`
`10:46.18`	`learner`	`gone`
`10:46.35`	`purple_cow`	`aww`
`10:46.39`	`CBG`	`Thanks. :)`
`10:46.41`	`purple_cow`	`learner got to it before i could even see it`
`10:48.09`	`learner`	`meh, just a bunch of gibbrish links in asian, some spambot`
`10:48.10`	`purple_cow`	`learner: i think siggraph prospects are looking good. it sounds like there may not be much point in me going out to pittsburgh to hang out with the CMU animation group, and if that's the case, there will be extra money`
`10:48.26`	`learner`	`cool`
`10:49.11`	`learner`	`rooms are reserved, so we're set there`
`10:49.26`	`purple_cow`	`which hotel?`
`10:49.34`	`learner`	`mayview`
`10:50.02`	`learner`	`looks like they added it later due to demand`
`10:50.09`	`learner`	`but it's 6 blocks and real cheap`
`10:50.34`	`learner`	`not as nice as last years, but about same distance`
`10:53.42`	`purple_cow`	`liar! it's like an extra 0.05 miles!`
`10:54.04`	`CBG`	`:O 0.05miles?`
`10:54.30`	`*** join/#bzflag Ioan (~d90ad013@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`10:54.30`	`purple_cow`	`CBG: yep, that's a distance`
`10:54.41`	`purple_cow`	`no doubt about it`
`10:54.45`	`CBG`	`and what? you have to travel that far?`
`10:54.57`	`Ioan`	`hello all`
`10:55.01`	`CBG`	`hi ioan`
`10:55.12`	`learner`	`heh`
`10:55.13`	`purple_cow`	`that much further`
`10:55.17`	`CBG`	`:O`
`10:55.18`	`Ioan`	`please tell me how can I set up a server on mac osX`
`10:55.27`	`CBG`	`Ioan: I made a guide on how to.`
`10:55.48`	`Ioan`	`and where i can find it? :)`
`10:55.53`	`CBG`	`Check out http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3940 :)`
`10:56.28`	`Ioan`	`thanks`
`10:56.32`	`CBG`	`But, that won't tell you how to open your ports or what to do with the server once its running.`
`10:56.42`	`CBG`	`It will just help you start a server. :)`
`11:34.00`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`11:44.52`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`11:44.52`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`11:44.52`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`11:54.11`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`11:58.39`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (5 files): Moving all local command out from ComposeDefaultKey and fixing a init sequence bug`
`11:58.57`	`sniperiid`	`?`
`12:10.59`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0551 (~83b1e852@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`12:39.56`	`Pimpi`	`sniperiid: whats your question?`
`12:40.14`	`sniperiid`	`15hey`
`12:40.14`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.14`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.15`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.15`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.15`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.16`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:40.26`	`sniperiid`	`i said this ear;oer`
`12:40.28`	`sniperiid`	`earlier *`
`12:40.50`	`Pimpi`	`tell me to read up then, instead of pasing it ;)`
`12:41.03`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`12:41.21`	`Pimpi`	`usually means you are behind some kind of proxy`
`12:41.40`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`12:41.52`	`sniperiid`	`i am behind ICS ( Internet connection sharing)`
`12:42.54`	`Pimpi`	`this might or might not the problem`
`12:43.04`	`Tupone`	`./bzflag -list http://my.BZFlag.org:81/db/`
`12:43.28`	`Tupone`	`sniperiid: try that command`
`12:43.28`	`Pimpi`	`oh, it also listens to :81 ?`
`12:43.36`	`Tupone`	`yeah`
`12:43.39`	`Pimpi`	`good to know`
`12:43.42`	`_Manu_`	`yep :)`
`12:43.47`	`sniperiid`	`hm ok ;)`
`12:44.11`	`sniperiid`	`and it also works for bzadmin ?`
`12:44.38`	`Tupone`	`hopefully`
`12:44.44`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`12:44.52`	`_Manu_`	`mmm i can't see the -list option`
`12:45.14`	`Pimpi`	`not according to man bzadmin`
`12:45.33`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`12:45.34`	`Tupone`	`well, I suppose it read the config file`
`12:45.38`	`_Manu_`	`cut you can save it in your bzflag config file`
`12:45.45`	`Tupone`	`so if you don in bzflag you have in bzadmin`
`12:45.47`	`_Manu_`	`s/cut/but`
`12:46.10`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-253-1-44-217.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`12:46.39`	`sniperiid`	`gimme a srv address that supports global login`
`12:46.41`	`sniperiid`	`faster`
`12:46.42`	`sniperiid`	`plz`
`12:47.04`	`Tupone`	`:) faaaassstterrr ?`
`12:47.10`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`12:47.11`	`_Manu_`	`viper.pimpi.org:5158`
`12:47.11`	`sniperiid`	`faster`
`12:47.13`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`12:50.24`	`sniperiid`	`that was the problem guys`
`12:50.27`	`sniperiid`	`thank you very much`
`12:50.29`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`12:53.08`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`12:54.58`	`sniperiid`	`where you said its in the cfg files, guys?`
`12:55.27`	`Pimpi`	`linux?`
`12:55.34`	`sniperiid`	`no`
`12:55.35`	`sniperiid`	`windows`
`12:55.42`	`Pimpi`	`no idea then`
`12:55.54`	`*** join/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`12:56.03`	`Tupone`	`search for it. called config.cfg`
`12:56.17`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`12:56.22`	`jolie`	`morning`
`12:56.28`	`jolie`	`tupo mio! carissimo`
`12:56.32`	`sniperiid`	`tupone, i do it work... have u see the messages above?`
`12:56.40`	`Tupone`	`yeah`
`12:56.48`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`12:57.17`	`Tupone`	`jolie: ah bona :)`
`13:03.42`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: i will reboot in linux and install 2.0.2 bzflag`
`13:03.45`	`sniperiid`	`cya`
`13:03.48`	`*** part/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`13:09.03`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~cristi@82.137.26.35)`
`13:09.05`	`sniperiid`	`heya`
`13:09.10`	`sniperiid`	`im now on linux :D`
`13:15.13`	`sniperiid`	`downloading bzflag-2.0.2.tar.bz2`
`13:21.14`	`*** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (~LPOS@AMontpellier-251-1-4-242.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`13:21.35`	`jolie`	`salut LePoulpe303`
`13:21.37`	`LePoulpe303`	`hi all`
`13:21.48`	`LePoulpe303`	`salut jolie`
`13:22.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (~Tupone@host-84-222-139-232.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`13:23.31`	`sniperiid`	`hm i dont have enouf space to save the tar.bz2`
`13:23.33`	`sniperiid`	`;(`
`13:23.55`	`LePoulpe303`	`Pimpi : my software manages 1vs1 stats now :)`
`13:24.00`	`sniperiid`	`i deleete some files/folders but i think its not enouf`
`13:24.26`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com)`
`13:24.48`	`sniperiid`	`blast007, r u away or not/`
`13:24.51`	`sniperiid`	`?`
`13:25.04`	`blast007`	`I'm here now :)`
`13:25.19`	`sniperiid`	`blast007 and blast007_away :D`
`13:25.26`	`sniperiid`	`why its so ?`
`13:25.27`	`blast007`	`hehe, yeah, other computer ;)`
`13:25.34`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`13:25.38`	`blast007`	`that one keeps logs for me`
`13:25.47`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`13:33.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`13:35.07`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`13:37.39`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`13:41.21`	`Pimpi`	`LePoulpe303: nice :)`
`13:41.27`	`Pimpi`	`url?`
`13:41.39`	`LePoulpe303`	`pimpi can send you a screenshot`
`13:41.50`	`LePoulpe303`	`pimpi : i have no public space to store things`
`13:42.24`	`Pimpi`	`you mean no webservice provider?`
`13:42.41`	`BenUrban`	`http://yousendit.com/`
`13:42.54`	`BenUrban`	`email addresses are optional`
`13:43.05`	`LePoulpe303`	`pimpi : no ; it's a desktop application ; not a web service`
`13:43.10`	`Pimpi`	`ic`
`13:43.10`	`LePoulpe303`	`benurban : thanks !!!`
`13:43.20`	`BenUrban`	`np ;)`
`13:43.26`	`Pimpi`	`pimpinella@pimpi.org`
`13:44.16`	`LePoulpe303`	`Pimpi : sent !`
`13:46.59`	`Grumbler`	`worm activity is up`
`13:47.51`	`BenUrban`	`Grumbler: they do that every time it rains`
`13:48.13`	`LePoulpe303`	`Grumbler : you live on Dune ? ;)`
`13:48.32`	`Grumbler`	`the spice, the spice`
`13:48.49`	`LePoulpe303`	`don't bogart the spice, grumbler`
`13:50.17`	`Grumbler`	`yeah, well....`
`13:52.04`	`*** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-ull-150-177.44-151.net24.it)`
`13:55.08`	`Pimpi`	`LePoulpe303: pretty nice work`
`13:55.52`	`LePoulpe303`	`Pimpi : thanks :) now i must decide what to do next`
`13:59.06`	`LePoulpe303`	`i think to a buddy list, to be warned when mate connects, and a team window , to see status of team crew`
`14:11.11`	*** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com)
`14:25.34`	`*** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@adsl-212-253.37-151.net24.it)`
`14:36.46`	`ruskie`	`LePoulpe303, hmmm all I'd need is to see light/dark/mixedwithflagcolor and their flags :) that's all that I need to see teamstatus :)`
`14:39.09`	`LePoulpe303`	`ruskie : light/dark ?`
`14:39.24`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`14:39.33`	`ruskie`	`yeah light blue for active teammates and dark for dead/paused/etc...`
`14:40.27`	`ruskie`	`I ussualy reffer to teammates by their flags only...`
`14:40.27`	`LePoulpe303`	`ruskie : please keep in mind that information is refreshed (as far as i remeber) every 5 minutes on mybzflag`
`14:40.40`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`14:41.15`	`LePoulpe303`	`except if they allow me to leech directly on the database to increase my refresh delay but i don't think they'll do that`
`14:41.22`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`14:41.27`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`14:41.31`	`ruskie`	`what are you up to even?`
`14:42.15`	`LePoulpe303`	`what do u mean`
`14:42.17`	`ruskie`	`I think I'll go play some more now...`
`14:51.35`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`15:11.25`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`15:12.18`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~Blue_Eyes@treebupf.inet.it)`
`15:15.27`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-b-114.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`15:15.29`	`menotume`	`BearPerson: http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/scoresort.patch`
`15:15.47`	`BearPerson`	`thanks`
`15:15.52`	`menotume`	`I think i'll change it to configure it like your patch though`
`15:16.08`	`menotume`	`I have it so a key toggles the sort`
`15:17.26`	`BearPerson`	`what sorting types do you have in yet? :)`
`15:17.54`	`menotume`	`TKratio, callsign, team, localratio`
`15:18.01`	`menotume`	`lol`
`15:18.12`	`BearPerson`	`would probably be possible... maybe a tad slow`
`15:18.34`	`menotume`	`yes, and changing quite quickly`
`15:18.47`	`menotume`	`i'll add that :)`
`15:19.05`	`BearPerson`	`if I put some cheat-detecting stuff in my client I'll definitely have it sort by cheat probability`
`15:19.15`	`menotume`	`:)`
`15:19.34`	`LePoulpe303`	`are there real cheaters on bzflag ?`
`15:19.42`	`BearPerson`	`always`
`15:20.14`	`LePoulpe303`	`i have doubts sometimes ; sometimes you can think it's lag , but others ...... i wonder`
`15:20.27`	`BearPerson`	`the server does almost no checking at all`
`15:20.40`	`BearPerson`	`it was popular again lately to bypass the wings jump count check`
`15:20.49`	`*** part/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`15:20.51`	`BearPerson`	`giving you infinite number of jumps with WG`
`15:21.47`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`15:22.08`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: delete my account ( maked with /register command ) please`
`15:22.35`	`LePoulpe303`	`BearPerson : nothing to avoid bullets ?`
`15:22.38`	`sniperiid`	`because it cant log in to the global login`
`15:22.54`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com)`
`15:23.02`	`_Manu_`	`sniperiid, done`
`15:23.06`	`BearPerson`	`LePoulpe303, always too...`
`15:23.17`	`BearPerson`	`though sometimes easy to find`
`15:23.19`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: ah was just a error`
`15:25.05`	`LePoulpe303`	`BearPerson : that was the risk to put collision detection inside client`
`15:25.24`	`BearPerson`	`sure`
`15:25.50`	`BearPerson`	`which is why I'm maybe going to re-calculate everything on my client too...`
`15:26.51`	`LePoulpe303`	`wow you must be a toughed programmer`
`15:29.02`	`BearPerson`	`well`
`15:29.27`	`BearPerson`	`considering I'm 18, I guess I can't be too toughened... but yeah, I've had my share of coding nights already`
`15:29.39`	`LePoulpe303`	`:)`
`15:33.46`	`jolie`	`<PROTECTED>`
`15:44.19`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`15:44.19`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`15:44.19`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`15:45.13`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper__ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`15:49.22`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: can i be cop if i dont break any rules?`
`15:49.57`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`15:50.35`	`_Manu_`	`sniperiid, the first rule is don't asking`
`15:50.50`	`sniperiid`	`Manu: ok :P`
`15:50.53`	`menotume`	`we told him that, but he asks anyway :)`
`15:51.12`	`Pimpi`	`sniperiid: if you don't break any rules you are allowed to play further on my server...`
`15:51.23`	`sniperiid`	`and to be cop?`
`15:51.52`	`Pimpi`	`read up...`
`15:52.07`	`Pimpi`	`about the first rule`
`15:52.28`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`15:52.50`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: the best way to get people to like you and maybe make you cop is to play nice,be fair, try to help people, etc, and never ever ask to be cop/admin. :)`
`15:53.02`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`15:53.39`	`sniperiid`	`~karma`
`15:53.39`	`ibot`	`sniperiid has neutral karma`
`15:53.50`	`BearPerson`	`I occasionally go spectator and look people over the shoulder seeing how they play... when their playing style indicates a nice, fair, team-playing character I take a note...`
`15:54.03`	`BearPerson`	`or at least that's how I think it's usually done`
`15:54.19`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`15:54.32`	`menotume`	`sniperid: do you PLAY bzflag ?`
`15:54.39`	`sniperiid`	`meno: yes`
`15:54.49`	`menotume`	`for how long ?`
`15:55.01`	`sniperiid`	`10-20 days`
`15:55.15`	`CBG`	`this is what ibot says about me: "cbg has karma of -2"`
`15:55.23`	`CBG`	`:( lol....`
`15:55.28`	`sniperiid`	`lol..`
`15:55.37`	`menotume`	`ahhh, most admins have played for years`
`15:55.38`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: most people who are admins or cops have been playong for YEARS`
`15:56.02`	`sniperiid`	`k`
`15:56.05`	`sniperiid`	`meno: wanna play?`
`15:56.06`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: there is no way you will become a cop for atleast a few Months yet. :(`
`15:56.29`	`menotume`	`nope, i'm done right now`
`15:56.55`	`sniperiid`	`meno, ok`
`16:06.20`	`RichardRauch`	`"Cop"? I'm not familiar with that term in bzflag...can someone define it?`
`16:06.32`	`sniperiid`	`admin`
`16:06.44`	`sniperiid`	`cop = admin .. but not with all options that haves the admin`
`16:06.51`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah.`
`16:06.52`	`RichardRauch`	`Thanks.`
`16:07.15`	`sniperiid`	`No Problem`
`16:07.22`	`RichardRauch`	`Someone without the admin password, but who can do things like /kick, /ban, etc.?`
`16:07.31`	`CBG`	`Yes`
`16:07.36`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B01D32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`16:07.45`	`sniperiid`	`hi touhshooter`
`16:07.45`	`CBG`	`Hi ToughShooter. :)`
`16:08.12`	`sniperiid`	`RichardRauch, wait i start my server.. it will be a bit laggy but thats it`
`16:09.16`	`sniperiid`	`82.137.26.35:5154`
`16:09.30`	`RichardRauch`	`Is it public?`
`16:09.37`	`sniperiid`	`oh no`
`16:09.39`	`RichardRauch`	`Or can I pass that info on the bzflag command-line?`
`16:09.46`	`sniperiid`	`u need to passthis`
`16:09.48`	`sniperiid`	`sth like`
`16:09.49`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`16:09.49`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`16:10.07`	`creeperz`	`and the crowd goes... silent`
`16:10.13`	`sniperiid`	`linux: bzflag Richard@82.137.26.35:5154`
`16:13.05`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`16:21.47`	`sniperiid`	`was nice, no, richard?`
`16:21.51`	`RichardRauch`	`sniperid: Not LINUX, but NetBSD. Whee. (^&`
`16:21.55`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`16:22.08`	`sniperiid`	`ruskie do u connect my server?`
`16:22.14`	`RichardRauch`	`Yes, but it looks like it needs more stuff.`
`16:22.23`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`16:22.28`	`sniperiid`	`i was thinkin tis too ;)`
`16:22.48`	`RichardRauch`	`Could be cozy for 1 on 1, though...`
`16:23.01`	`BearPerson`	`s/too/to/`
`16:23.06`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`16:23.14`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`16:23.16`	`RichardRauch`	`s/ed/emacs/g`
`16:24.15`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: whats the address?`
`16:24.38`	`sniperiid`	`82.137.26.35:5154`
`16:24.46`	`CBG`	`ok`
`16:25.42`	`RichardRauch`	`Forced disconnect?`
`16:25.55`	`ruskie`	`one -d to many coulnd't track`
`16:25.56`	`RichardRauch`	`Invisible bullets aren't worth a whole lot there...`
`16:25.59`	`ruskie`	`it's back up...`
`16:26.03`	`ruskie`	`:))`
`16:26.04`	`sniperiid`	`no`
`16:26.14`	`BenUrban`	`does anyone here have any trouble with gnome 2.10's system tools backend?`
`16:26.14`	`RichardRauch`	`And lack of sound is more of a problem.`
`16:26.23`	`BenUrban`	`it seems to be causing periodic lag`
`16:26.28`	`ruskie`	`lack of sound?`
`16:26.39`	`RichardRauch`	`(One of these days, I need to take a pass at getting some patches together so that the client does sound on NetBSD...)`
`16:26.40`	`RichardRauch`	`Yeah.`
`16:26.42`	`BenUrban`	`i asked in #gentoo but i never get my questions answered there`
`16:27.11`	`RichardRauch`	`NetBSD offers a Sun-like audio and a liboss for OSS type sound. Either bzflag can't figure out what sound support is there, or doesn't support those mechanisms.`
`16:27.13`	`RichardRauch`	`nHm.`
`16:27.29`	`RichardRauch`	`SDL should provide sound, shouldn't it?`
`16:27.52`	`RichardRauch`	`(The build I'm using uses SDL...)`
`16:27.54`	`BenUrban`	`sdl_mixer should...`
`16:28.02`	`CBG`	`:)`
`16:28.05`	`BenUrban`	`dunno if libsdl does on its own`
`16:28.09`	`RichardRauch`	`I get: Couldn't open audio: No available audio device`
`16:28.16`	`BenUrban`	`ouch`
`16:28.16`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`16:28.24`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: :)`
`16:28.31`	`sniperiid`	`wait i change the map`
`16:28.42`	`RichardRauch`	`Of course, the up side is that there's no incentive to turn off XMMS while playing bzflag, now.`
`16:29.00`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: ok :)`
`16:29.36`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: done`
`16:29.38`	`RichardRauch`	`I should probably put together a bzflag playlist with things like my Queen album "A Kind of Magic" and maybe some Wagner...`
`16:29.39`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: try now`
`16:29.45`	`CBG`	`ok`
`16:29.58`	`BenUrban`	`does anyone here have any trouble with gnome 2.10's system tools backend casing periodic lag?`
`16:30.13`	`RichardRauch`	`Actually, how many live people are here and willing to run a bzflag client to do a quick test?`
`16:30.18`	`RichardRauch`	`(I don't use GNOME. (^&)`
`16:30.58`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: i stopped server`
`16:31.01`	`CBG`	`k`
`16:31.15`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: done, try now`
`16:31.22`	`CBG`	`ok`
`16:31.36`	`BenUrban`	`~blinky RichardRauch`
`16:31.37`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps RichardRauch on the head with a three-eyed fish named Blinky`
`16:31.43`	`BenUrban`	`something like that :P`
`16:31.47`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`16:32.03`	`RichardRauch`	`Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!`
`16:32.17`	`BenUrban`	`~whaleslap RichardRauch`
`16:32.18`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps RichardRauch upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh`
`16:32.47`	`Pimpi`	`and now to something completely different (plz...)`
`16:32.58`	`BenUrban`	`~fish Pimpi`
`16:32.59`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps Pimpi around with a large trout`
`16:32.59`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: :D`
`16:32.59`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`16:33.03`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: :)`
`16:33.09`	`Pimpi`	`please......`
`16:33.11`	`BenUrban`	`ok`
`16:33.21`	`BenUrban`	`does anyone here have any trouble with gnome 2.10's system tools backend casing periodic lag?`
`16:34.01`	`RichardRauch`	`Does anyon have a problem with people using GNOME 2.10's system tools backend who start to repeat themselves?`
`16:34.49`	`RichardRauch`	`Not a bzflag dev. (^& If I were, I'd probably have tried to fix the sound...`
`16:34.53`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`16:34.56`	`BenUrban`	`any kind of dev`
`16:35.00`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`16:35.16`	`BenUrban`	`s/suspects/accuses/`
`16:35.32`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@212.203.102.51)`
`16:35.42`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@212.203.102.51)`
`16:36.20`	`RichardRauch`	`What, exactly, does bzflag require from the system in order to do sound? I'm not familiar with sdl.mixer...`
`16:36.49`	`RichardRauch`	`(Though I see that SDL_mixer exists in pkgsrc. If I installed that puppy, would it work?)`
`16:37.15`	`RichardRauch`	`("it" being "bzflag's audio support on my system")`
`16:37.48`	`BenUrban`	`you need SDL_mixer to hear any sounds from bzflag afaik`
`16:37.53`	`sniperiid`	`i am away or not ?`
`16:37.55`	`Pimpi`	`works perfectly with arts here`
`16:37.56`	`RichardRauch`	`Or would I have to rebuild bzflag?`
`16:38.16`	`RichardRauch`	`i seem to recall pain from arts.`
`16:38.27`	`BenUrban`	`artists always suffer`
`16:38.30`	`BenUrban`	`:P`
`16:38.36`	`Pimpi`	`time goes pain leaves`
`16:38.44`	`RichardRauch`	`(Disabled it for mplayer options due to problems...)`
`16:39.02`	`BenUrban`	`RichardRauch: kde, gnome, or other?`
`16:39.13`	`BenUrban`	`lmfao`
`16:39.13`	`RichardRauch`	`BenUrban: twm.`
`16:39.18`	`BenUrban`	`EEW`
`16:39.39`	`BenUrban`	`and runs`
`16:39.39`	`RichardRauch`	`I use a customized config. (^&`
`16:39.40`	`BenUrban`	`and runs`
`16:39.53`	`Pimpi`	`RichardRauch: there are a lot of ppl reviewing the channel logs for dev relevant stuff`
`16:40.03`	`BenUrban`	`lmao`
`16:40.10`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro)`
`16:40.17`	`Pimpi`	`you force them to read read masses of nonsense chatter`
`16:40.35`	`BenUrban`	`Pimpi: to a dev, this is entertaining :P`
`16:40.36`	`RichardRauch`	`I see.`
`16:40.55`	`Pimpi`	`i am a dev, and no, it's not entertaining`
`16:40.59`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`16:41.12`	`BenUrban`	`well when i said "a dev" i was refering to myself :P`
`16:41.23`	`BenUrban`	`but ok`
`16:41.24`	`JeffM2501`	`you are a developer on bzflag?`
`16:41.26`	`JeffM2501`	`that's new`
`16:41.28`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`16:41.29`	`BenUrban`	`no`
`16:41.30`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`16:41.35`	`BenUrban`	`i didn't say bzflag dev`
`16:41.42`	`BenUrban`	`though i have contributed a patch...`
`16:41.50`	`JeffM2501`	`but this is a bzflag channel`
`16:41.53`	`BenUrban`	`...which hasn't gotten in yet`
`16:41.54`	`Pimpi`	`bbl`
`16:42.06`	`BenUrban`	`ok...`
`16:42.10`	`BenUrban`	`does anyone here have any trouble with gnome 2.10's system tools backend casing periodic lag?`
`16:42.15`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay, then, developer relavent: I didn't get an answer to my question. Is it enough just to install the SDL mixer?`
`16:42.15`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`16:42.23`	`BenUrban`	`RichardRauch: try it`
`16:42.24`	`RichardRauch`	`Or do I then need to rebuild bzflag?`
`16:42.39`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, bzflag dosn't use SDL mixer, bzflag does it's own mixing`
`16:42.44`	`BenUrban`	`really?`
`16:42.45`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`16:42.55`	`BenUrban`	`i thought it used sdl_mixer....`
`16:42.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it just uses the raw SDL sound`
`16:42.59`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay, I was just told that it used SDL's mixer.`
`16:43.01`	`JeffM2501`	`no it does not`
`16:43.05`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay.`
`16:43.07`	`JeffM2501`	`who told you that?`
`16:43.12`	`BenUrban`	`lol, probably me`
`16:43.28`	`JeffM2501`	`sdl_mixer is an external library to SDL`
`16:43.33`	`JeffM2501`	`it is not part of the base SDL package`
`16:43.39`	`RichardRauch`	`No, it's not.`
`16:43.46`	`JeffM2501`	`we only use things in the base SDL package`
`16:43.54`	`BenUrban`	`really?`
`16:44.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`16:44.06`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`16:44.17`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay, then...so if I get that message about no driver found, that's an SDL error, and no program can do audio through SDL?`
`16:44.35`	`JeffM2501`	`what sound system do you use in linux?`
`16:44.38`	`BenUrban`	`RichardRauch: that'd be my guess, but apparently i know nothing about the subject`
`16:44.45`	`RichardRauch`	`I don't use GNU/LINUX. (^&`
`16:44.51`	`JeffM2501`	`what do you use?`
`16:45.11`	`RichardRauch`	`NetBSD. It provides a Sun-like audio interface ("native") and an OSS layer. Other things are available...`
`16:45.22`	`RichardRauch`	`I was pretty sure that SDL audio worked for things like mplayer...`
`16:45.23`	`JeffM2501`	`so you have OSS emulation?`
`16:45.41`	`JeffM2501`	`or likel ALSA?`
`16:45.44`	`RichardRauch`	`Jeff: /usr/lib/libossaudio.a`
`16:45.52`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`16:45.52`	`RichardRauch`	`No, ALSA is I think LINUX-only.`
`16:45.56`	`JeffM2501`	`then set your driver to OSS`
`16:45.59`	`RichardRauch`	`No LINUX kernels here.`
`16:46.03`	`JeffM2501`	`leave the device blank`
`16:46.28`	`RichardRauch`	`It is blank.`
`16:46.34`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, ok, whopty do.... just tell bzflag to tell SDL what driver to use, since your SDL port can't pick a good one by default`
`16:46.40`	`JeffM2501`	`what is your driver line set to?`
`16:47.05`	`RichardRauch`	`OKay, do you mean in my bzflag player-configuration file?`
`16:47.11`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean in bzflag`
`16:47.25`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a place to set the driver and the device`
`16:47.31`	`BenUrban`	`you are using 2.x right?`
`16:47.31`	`RichardRauch`	`I don't know. Whatever ./configure picked.`
`16:47.35`	`RichardRauch`	`2.0.2.`
`16:47.41`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, it's not a build thing`
`16:47.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a runtime thing`
`16:47.57`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't pick ANY system, we leave it up to SDL`
`16:48.03`	`RichardRauch`	`I asked if you meant in the runtime config file, and you said in "bzflag", so I assumed you meant it was built into the binary.`
`16:48.06`	`JeffM2501`	`but we can sugest drivers to SDL`
`16:48.09`	`JeffM2501`	`NO`
`16:48.14`	`RichardRauch`	`Let's back up: I don't know. Wherew would I look?`
`16:48.15`	`BenUrban`	`start bzflag`
`16:48.16`	`BenUrban`	`go to options`
`16:48.17`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a option in the options page`
`16:48.27`	`JeffM2501`	`this is a run time seting`
`16:48.30`	`RichardRauch`	`I've been there. there are no audio options that I recall.`
`16:48.35`	`JeffM2501`	`yes there are`
`16:48.37`	`BenUrban`	`check again`
`16:48.39`	`RichardRauch`	`(Well, they are there, but no driver options.)`
`16:48.46`	`BenUrban`	`there are as of 2.0 iirc`
`16:48.50`	`JeffM2501`	`you sure you built SDL?`
`16:49.16`	`RichardRauch`	`SDL>=1.2.7nb4`
`16:49.22`	`RichardRauch`	`(From pkg_info bzflag.)`
`16:49.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the sendond and third items down`
`16:49.31`	`JeffM2501`	`on the audio menu`
`16:49.34`	`JeffM2501`	`they WILL be blank`
`16:49.36`	`RichardRauch`	`The audio driver is blank.`
`16:49.38`	`JeffM2501`	`put in OSS for the driver`
`16:49.46`	`JeffM2501`	`blank means let SDL Pick`
`16:49.50`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah.`
`16:49.52`	`JeffM2501`	`you want to force SDL to use OSS`
`16:49.59`	`JeffM2501`	`since your SDL aperantly sucks`
`16:50.02`	`RichardRauch`	`Should I put in "oss" or "OSS", or is it case-insensitive?`
`16:50.07`	`BenUrban`	`oss`
`16:50.08`	`RichardRauch`	`It's not my SDL.`
`16:50.10`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`16:50.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it's on YOUR system is it no?`
`16:50.42`	`RichardRauch`	`Well, then, also my bzflag sucks. (^&`
`16:50.45`	`RichardRauch`	`Hold on, checking.`
`16:50.48`	`*** join/#bzflag bz9690 (~41a1f97d@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`16:51.09`	`JeffM2501`	`well yeah the bsd users are more rare, so it gets lets testing`
`16:52.43`	`RichardRauch`	`Still says "Couldn't open audio: No available audio devic"`
`16:52.54`	`RichardRauch`	`I put in /dev/audio as the sound device on the line after the driver.`
`16:53.16`	`RichardRauch`	`(Leaving the device line blank didn't help, either.)`
`16:53.16`	`JeffM2501`	`then your SDL can't open an audio device`
`16:53.22`	`JeffM2501`	`the error is coming right from SDL`
`16:53.23`	`trepan`	`http://sdldoc.csn.ul.ie/sdlenvvars.php , 'dsp' for OSS`
`16:53.38`	`BenUrban`	`check the permissions on your audio device files`
`16:53.40`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what I've been trying to find :)`
`16:53.40`	`RichardRauch`	`There is no "dsp" device on NetBSD.`
`16:53.59`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, it's commands to SDL, not your OS`
`16:54.01`	`JeffM2501`	`just try it`
`16:54.02`	`RichardRauch`	`I believe that GNU/LINUX-only applications hard-code "dsp" and need to be pointed at /dev/audio to work...`
`16:54.18`	`RichardRauch`	`(e.g., flacdec...)`
`16:54.28`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay, I'll try it, but there is no such file, I can guarantee you. (^&`
`16:54.29`	`JeffM2501`	`or read that doc`
`16:54.35`	`JeffM2501`	`there may be others`
`16:54.39`	`RichardRauch`	`Doc?`
`16:54.43`	`JeffM2501`	`the link`
`16:54.50`	`JeffM2501`	`that trepan so nicely showed you`
`16:54.59`	`trepan`	`for future reference...`
`16:55.01`	`trepan`	`~sdlvars`
`16:55.03`	`ibot`	`i guess sdlvars is http://sdldoc.csn.ul.ie/sdlenvvars.php`
`16:55.06`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`16:55.18`	`JeffM2501`	`~ trepan++`
`16:55.38`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, set the driver to dsp`
`16:55.40`	`RichardRauch`	`Reading the docs...`
`16:55.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and leave the device blank`
`16:56.14`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC in general you don't have to set the device ( if you only have one sound device )`
`16:56.42`	`BearPerson`	`on very close radar even tank parts show up... lol`
`16:56.55`	`JeffM2501`	`the driver should know what it's default device`
`16:57.07`	`RichardRauch`	`No, "dsp" does not work.`
`16:57.17`	`ruskie`	`sdl has support for sun audio`
`16:57.19`	`JeffM2501`	`BearPerson, yes, it's all part of the same tank model`
`16:57.20`	`RichardRauch`	`Tried "audio" in place (no /dev/ prefix). No dice, either.`
`16:57.25`	`ruskie`	`you just need to setup the proper driver for it`
`16:58.03`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d51A465C1.access.telenet.be)`
`16:58.23`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah, the right driver is "audio", perhaps...`
`16:58.52`	`ruskie`	`SDL_AUDIODRIVER=oss SDL_PATH_DSP=/dev/dsp`
`17:00.49`	`ruskie`	`possible drivers: openbsd, dsp, alsa, audio, AL, artsc, esd, nas, dma, dsound, waveout, baudio, sndmgr, paud, AHI, disk`
`17:01.03`	`ruskie`	`dsp is linux solaris bsd`
`17:01.14`	`ruskie`	`audio is unix style /dev/audio`
`17:01.20`	`ruskie`	`sunos and solaris`
`17:01.26`	`ruskie`	`AL is irix`
`17:01.59`	`RichardRauch`	`The device special file /dev/dsp does not, and never has, existed on NetBSD---except in GNU/LINUX emulation (/emul/linux/dev/dsp or some such).`
`17:02.17`	`ruskie`	`how about openbsd style?`
`17:02.23`	`ruskie`	`doesn't say which device it uses`
`17:02.39`	`BenUrban`	`RichardRauch: what audio device do you have?`
`17:02.54`	`BenUrban`	`better yet, what does sdl detect when you configure it?`
`17:03.10`	`RichardRauch`	`Again: Sun-style /dev/audio. What SDL docs call "audio".`
`17:03.30`	`RichardRauch`	`That's an intersting question.`
`17:03.32`	`ruskie`	`tried using it?`
`17:03.44`	`ruskie`	`thtough the env variables...`
`17:03.52`	`RichardRauch`	`Yes.`
`17:03.54`	`BearPerson`	`I'd wildly guess dsound or waveout`
`17:04.11`	`BenUrban`	`dsound = directx sound`
`17:04.18`	`BenUrban`	`afaik`
`17:04.25`	`ruskie`	`yup`
`17:04.27`	`BearPerson`	`no idea :)`
`17:04.48`	`ruskie`	`/usr/share/doc/sdl/html/sdlenvvars.html`
`17:05.59`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay, configuring sdl...`
`17:06.05`	`RichardRauch`	`Let's see what it comes up with.`
`17:06.45`	`RichardRauch`	`checking for OSS audio support... yes`
`17:07.05`	`RichardRauch`	`So it found OSS support and thinks that it works, I guess.`
`17:09.41`	`sniperiid`	`does anyone can help me with materials?`
`17:10.07`	`RichardRauch`	`(Yes, I tried using /dev/audio and 'audio' via the env. vars.)`
`17:10.29`	`RichardRauch`	`(Though people kept insisting that the non-existant /dev/dsp should be used instead. (^&)`
`17:10.51`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`17:11.17`	`wegstar`	`hi Thumper_`
`17:12.21`	`RichardRauch`	`Should "remote sounds" be turned on or off? Or is that going to matter?`
`17:15.03`	`sniperiid`	`how i set the pyramid texture for material`
`17:15.04`	`sniperiid`	`like`
`17:15.09`	`sniperiid`	`texture (what?)`
`17:20.34`	`RichardRauch`	`Did you read the bzw(5) man-page?`
`17:20.42`	`RichardRauch`	`material`
`17:20.49`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:20.56`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:20.59`	`sniperiid`	`.. ok i alrdy got it`
`17:21.00`	`sniperiid`	`;)`
`17:21.02`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:21.05`	`RichardRauch`	`...`
`17:21.07`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah.`
`17:21.09`	`RichardRauch`	`9^&`
`17:21.44`	`RichardRauch`	`Err, (^&, that is.`
`17:21.58`	`RichardRauch`	`9^& looks like I'm sticking my tongue out.`
`17:22.34`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`17:23.09`	`RichardRauch`	`What does the physics driver "death message" do? Does it make you die (with corresponding message) for entering the area? Or is it just a custom message if you die while in the area governed by the driver?`
`17:24.45`	`sniperiid`	`if u hit that area where is that, you get killed and it says the death message`
`17:25.02`	`RichardRauch`	`So what's the point of having physics changed if you die instantly in the area?`
`17:25.11`	`sniperiid`	`lol`
`17:25.16`	`RichardRauch`	`Or was the death message just put there for lack of a better place?`
`17:25.17`	`sniperiid`	`you need learn 2.0 features ;)`
`17:25.34`	`RichardRauch`	`Yes, that's why I was asking. (^&`
`17:25.41`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`17:26.35`	`sniperiid`	`try now connecting to my srv with bzflag pls`
`17:26.42`	`sniperiid`	`to test map , it haves 2.0 features`
`17:26.43`	`RichardRauch`	`What's the domain name again?`
`17:26.50`	`sniperiid`	`82.137.26.35:5154`
`17:27.19`	`RichardRauch`	`Okay. Let me finish testing openmortal to see if it can do SDL sound.`
`17:27.27`	`sniperiid`	`ok ..`
`17:28.12`	`sniperiid`	`hm map is with errors`
`17:28.14`	`RichardRauch`	`Well, Openmortal's sound works.`
`17:28.19`	`sniperiid`	`and the srv wont start`
`17:28.54`	`RichardRauch`	`Bummer.`
`17:28.58`	`RichardRauch`	`What error messages do you get?`
`17:29.24`	`sniperiid`	`i will being baned from this channel if i say them`
`17:29.27`	`sniperiid`	`they are much`
`17:29.32`	`sniperiid`	`and are a part of 2.0`
`17:29.34`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`17:29.37`	`RichardRauch`	`(^&`
`17:29.39`	`sniperiid`	`features`
`17:30.06`	`creeperz`	`RichardRauch: that is not a face...`
`17:30.06`	`BearPerson`	`there's #flood`
`17:30.07`	`creeperz`	`:-P`
`17:30.17`	`BearPerson`	`or pastebins in herds`
`17:30.23`	`BearPerson`	`pastebin.ca is one I think`
`17:30.37`	`RichardRauch`	`Yes it is, creeperz.`
`17:30.41`	`RichardRauch`	`I've been using it for more than a decade.`
`17:30.43`	`sniperiid`	`done i solved error`
`17:30.44`	`sniperiid`	`it was`
`17:30.46`	`sniperiid`	`meshnpyr`
`17:30.48`	`sniperiid`	`instead of`
`17:30.50`	`sniperiid`	`meshpyr`
`17:31.47`	`sniperiid`	`done server is started`
`17:32.03`	`sniperiid`	`CGB: can you test my srv?`
`17:32.14`	`RichardRauch`	`Hm. If you define a physics driver, how do you bind it to a location? Or is it (can it be) global?`
`17:32.31`	`sniperiid`	`if u want a box to do that`
`17:32.34`	`sniperiid`	`do meshbox`
`17:32.37`	`sniperiid`	`meshbox`
`17:32.46`	`sniperiid`	`the same thing like box`
`17:32.54`	`sniperiid`	`phydrv <your phisic driver>`
`17:32.55`	`sniperiid`	`end`
`17:40.16`	`sniperiid`	`lol :)`
`17:40.24`	`RichardRauch`	`sniper: That's how you define a physics driver. I wasn't asking that.`
`17:40.30`	`RichardRauch`	`I was asking how you control where it goes.`
`17:40.34`	`RichardRauch`	`Boxes have locations.`
`17:40.41`	`RichardRauch`	`Physics drivers don't. Can you localize them somehow?`
`17:41.17`	`sniperiid`	`lolll`
`17:41.31`	`BearPerson`	`reference them inside your whatever definition`
`17:41.31`	`sniperiid`	`a phisyc driver is like a material`
`17:41.31`	`RichardRauch`	`Or are they global to the whole map?`
`17:41.33`	`BearPerson`	`inside your box`
`17:41.44`	`sniperiid`	`material dont have a position....`
`17:41.59`	`sniperiid`	`and phyisic doesnt have one too`
`17:42.19`	`RichardRauch`	`One thing at a time, sniper. (^&`
`17:42.28`	`sniperiid`	`what 1?`
`17:42.36`	`sniperiid`	`;)`
`17:43.04`	`BearPerson`	`well`
`17:43.06`	`RichardRauch`	`So, you can say something like:`
`17:43.07`	`RichardRauch`	`box`
`17:43.09`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:43.21`	`sniperiid`	`no box`
`17:43.22`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:43.22`	`sniperiid`	`meshbox`
`17:43.29`	`RichardRauch`	`...`
`17:43.30`	`RichardRauch`	`Ah.`
`17:43.32`	`sniperiid`	`noooooo`
`17:43.33`	`sniperiid`	`wait`
`17:43.34`	`sniperiid`	`i tell ya`
`17:43.38`	`sniperiid`	`meshbox`
`17:43.41`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:43.48`	`sniperiid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:43.50`	`sniperiid`	`...`
`17:43.53`	`sniperiid`	`end`
`17:43.58`	`sniperiid`	`and at meshbox`
`17:44.17`	`sniperiid`	`you need material :)`
`17:44.20`	`sniperiid`	`its hard`
`17:44.21`	`sniperiid`	`but nice`
`17:44.22`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`17:44.48`	`BearPerson`	`hmm... which gives me an idea`
`17:45.05`	`BearPerson`	`ruskie, how 'bout transparent/invisible walls for your maze?`
`17:45.14`	`BearPerson`	`walls that bounce you back`
`17:45.21`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`17:45.28`	`sniperiid`	`that would be a good /nice idea`
`17:50.19`	`sniperiid`	`i do rabbit chase on my srv :D`
`17:53.59`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-78-223-244.sdf.bellsouth.net)`
`17:56.03`	`*** part/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~Blue_Eyes@treebupf.inet.it)`
`17:56.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Teppic (~Teppic@cpc1-cbly2-5-0-cust239.glfd.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:01.38`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-253-1-40-208.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:04.35`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid\|a1ay (~bzgirl@ottawa-hs-64-26-170-85.d-ip.magma.ca)`
`18:06.34`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:07.43`	`sniperiid`	`richardRauch: connedct again`
`18:08.04`	`sniperiid`	`all flags are 20 ( all wings )`
`18:10.34`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: connect to my srv again`
`18:10.35`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`18:10.44`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: 82.137.26.35:5154`
`18:10.45`	`CBG`	`sniperlid: address?`
`18:10.47`	`CBG`	`ok :)`
`18:11.10`	`ruskie`	`BearPerson, in the plans :)`
`18:11.19`	`ruskie`	`same for floors`
`18:11.57`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`18:12.01`	`ruskie`	`can it be done?`
`18:12.15`	`BearPerson`	`I don't know... meshbox with physics... maybe`
`18:12.29`	`sniperiid`	`yeah`
`18:19.36`	`sniperiid`	`:)`
`18:20.08`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: join #snipersrv`
`18:20.36`	`sniperiid`	`and richard: join #snipersrv`
`18:20.47`	`sniperiid`	`theres place 4 my srv`
`18:21.59`	`*** join/#bzflag learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`18:21.59`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o learner] by ChanServ`
`18:24.57`	`Grumbler`	`whooohooo learner is back`
`18:27.15`	`sniperiid`	`who can add chanserv on my channel?`
`18:27.20`	`sniperiid`	`#snipersrv`
`18:27.22`	`BearPerson`	`you`
`18:27.26`	`sniperiid`	`how?`
`18:27.45`	`BearPerson`	`I think it's time for four letters`
`18:27.58`	`sniperiid`	`?`
`18:28.02`	`wegstar`	`oh`
`18:28.04`	`wegstar`	`I'll do it`
`18:28.11`	`sniperiid`	`ok wegstar`
`18:29.32`	`RichardRauch`	`Mildly interesting article that I was just pointed to: http://theinquirer.net/?article=23826`
`18:49.38`	`sniperiid`	`jolie,why left?`
`18:50.34`	`jolie`	`cause jolie has thing to do`
`18:50.37`	`mmu_man`	`~tld il`
`18:50.45`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`18:51.06`	`jolie`	`like putting son to bed...`
`18:51.09`	`jolie`	`so bbl`
`18:51.17`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`18:51.31`	`wegstar`	`...`
`18:51.40`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`18:54.09`	`sniperiid`	`CBG: your back?`
`18:54.13`	`sniperiid`	`join my channel`
`18:59.26`	`Pimpi`	`sniperiid: you've been advised to stop things like asing people to join your server/channel/* before, so why just following?`
`18:59.53`	`sniperiid`	`lol..`
`19:01.14`	`Pimpi`	`scrolling up you'll see, that two of three messages are yours, and rereading it you'll find out, that most of them are obsolete`
`19:01.26`	`Pimpi`	`no, it's not funny`
`19:01.34`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-147-074.arcor-ip.net)`
`19:01.48`	`sniperiid`	`ok.`
`19:02.03`	`sniperiid`	`but how i talk with CBG/jolie ??`
`19:02.04`	`sniperiid`	`PM ?`
`19:02.13`	`wegstar`	`sure`
`19:02.15`	`Pimpi`	`probably`
`19:02.55`	`Pimpi`	`continuing you risk to be banned and you've been before for the same reasons, no?`
`19:03.14`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: no`
`19:03.25`	`Pimpi`	`you have, i remember`
`19:03.28`	`sniperiid`	`Pimpi: i was banning for flooding channel in 2004 oct or that time`
`19:03.36`	`sniperiid`	`banned *`
`19:03.50`	`sniperiid`	`but just 3 minutes`
`19:04.35`	`Pimpi`	`so you're lucky`
`19:04.42`	`sniperiid`	`yea`
`19:04.56`	`Pimpi`	`done`
`19:05.11`	`sniperiid`	`with waht?`
`19:05.29`	`*** part/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`19:05.34`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`19:05.35`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`19:05.42`	`sniperiid`	`done with what?`
`19:05.52`	`Pimpi`	`telling you`
`19:06.03`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`19:06.03`	`sniperiid`	`okq`
`19:06.08`	`sniperiid`	`oka *`
`19:11.39`	`RichardRauch`	`Interesting that you can have a rogue base. Is it functional beyond being a place to land rogues on first login?`
`19:11.58`	`sniperiid`	`?`
`19:12.08`	`sniperiid`	`i will make it ctf.. thats true`
`19:12.13`	`sniperiid`	`4 bases`
`19:12.15`	`RichardRauch`	`Base color 0.`
`19:12.24`	`ruskie`	`no rogue flag iirc RichardRauch`
`19:12.27`	`sniperiid`	`k ok i know`
`19:12.47`	`RichardRauch`	`I took my own flag to the rogue base; didn't capture it. Looks like it's just a black platform...`
`19:12.59`	`sniperiid`	`:P`
`19:13.19`	`sniperiid`	`rogue base didnt exist!`
`19:13.28`	`sniperiid`	`its just`
`19:13.29`	`sniperiid`	`red base`
`19:13.31`	`sniperiid`	`green base`
`19:13.35`	`sniperiid`	`blue base`
`19:13.40`	`*** part/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`19:13.44`	`*** join/#bzflag sniperiid (~sniper_@82.137.26.35)`
`19:13.46`	`sniperiid`	`and`
`19:13.47`	`sniperiid`	`i donno`
`19:13.55`	`ruskie`	`pruple`
`19:14.07`	`RichardRauch`	`The four regular bases are those plus blue.`
`19:14.26`	`RichardRauch`	`You can specify color 0, though, which is the rogue team color. You get a black base, but it seems to be inert.`
`19:14.26`	`ruskie`	`erm?`
`19:14.35`	`ruskie`	`plus blue???`
`19:15.00`	`RichardRauch`	`I think. I've seen blue teams...or my memory is worse than I remember.`
`19:15.05`	`creeperz`	`plus pill = matrix`
`19:15.24`	`sniperiid`	`hm`
`19:15.33`	`Aribeth_away`	`rouge is not a team`
`19:15.41`	`sniperiid`	`yea rogue isnot a team`
`19:15.52`	`Aribeth_away`	`unles its rabbit`
`19:16.01`	`sniperiid`	`yep`
`19:16.03`	`RichardRauch`	`Well, you can give their color slot number is the point, when specifying a base.`
`19:16.04`	`DTRemenak`	`rogue is a team, you're just allowed to shoot your teammates ;)`
`19:16.15`	`ruskie`	`:))`
`19:16.19`	`Aribeth_away`	`ahh`
`19:16.21`	`sniperiid`	`:P`
`19:16.27`	`RichardRauch`	`You don't even clone to the base, though, when logging in as rogue. Just a black box.`
`19:16.51`	`DTRemenak`	`but, there's no rogue_base image, so you won't get a rogue base`
`19:17.11`	`DTRemenak`	`even if you could confuse the server into creating one`
`19:17.21`	`sniperiid`	`yep`
`19:17.23`	`RichardRauch`	`Um, I did get a rogue base. Or at least a group 0 base, and rogues are group 0.`
`19:17.29`	`RichardRauch`	`base`
`19:17.29`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:17.29`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:17.29`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:17.30`	`RichardRauch`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:17.30`	`RichardRauch`	`end`
`19:17.45`	`RichardRauch`	`No "confusion". It just works. But the resulting base is just a box.`
`19:17.54`	`sniperiid`	`lol`
`19:17.57`	`sniperiid`	`did u enable ctf?`
`19:18.04`	`sniperiid`	`CApture Te flag`
`19:18.10`	`BearPerson`	`we know`
`19:18.10`	`RichardRauch`	`It's a ctf server, yes.`
`19:18.17`	`sniperiid`	`ok`
`19:18.27`	`*** join/#bzflag tavla (~spreker@ip51cfa1ef.direct-adsl.nl)`
`19:18.29`	`sniperiid`	`im gonna pla y 4x4evo 2`
`19:18.30`	`sniperiid`	`cu`
`19:20.50`	`blast007`	`:)`
`19:21.00`	`RichardRauch`	`So I guess the short answer to my question is, "No, it's totally non-functional." (^&`
`19:22.51`	`BearPerson`	`I guess it's "rogues don't have bases... you can specify one, but it is neither nicely defined nor used" :)`
`19:25.29`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/CustomBase.cxx: Don't allow rogue bases. If we want rogue bases, do them right, create a texture and some code.`
`19:25.31`	`DTRemenak`	`happy?`
`19:25.40`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`19:26.17`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`19:40.09`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`19:40.10`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`19:50.55`	`RichardRauch`	`Is there a way to set a truly unlimited number of jumps with wings? I tried -1 and 0...`
`19:54.27`	`menotume`	`hellos orchid`
`19:56.04`	`orchid`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:56.54`	`Grumbler`	`golly, why have wingsJumpcount annd wingsFlapcount....`
`19:57.10`	`RichardRauch`	`wingsFlapCount?`
`19:57.14`	`RichardRauch`	`I missed that one.`
`19:59.05`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`19:59.05`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`19:59.05`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`19:59.14`	`Grumbler`	`RichardRauch, wingsflapcount = wingsjumpcount`
`19:59.35`	`RichardRauch`	`Just an alias?`
`19:59.43`	`Grumbler`	`pretty much`
`19:59.45`	`RichardRauch`	`(nod)`
`20:00.05`	`RichardRauch`	`I was guessing that one jump would give you multiple flaps...(^&`
`20:02.44`	`Grumbler`	`no, and because of the <=0 it looks like infinite flap count is not there...you count set it hmm, whats an int...65k? high....which would be infinite pretty much`
`20:03.13`	`RichardRauch`	`No, you're thinking {unsigned short}...or else are thinking of long ago.`
`20:03.34`	`RichardRauch`	`Most compiles use 32-bit {int}, and signed, so more like 2 billion, give or take.`
`20:03.39`	`RichardRauch`	`(Well, a little over.)`
`20:03.42`	`JeffM2501`	`int is 2 billion`
`20:03.46`	`JeffM2501`	`+=`
`20:03.47`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's signed`
`20:04.06`	`JeffM2501`	`RichardRauch, bzflag uses a large number of shorts in it's code`
`20:04.31`	`RichardRauch`	`So? He said "int", not "short". (^&`
`20:04.46`	`JeffM2501`	`a short is still an integer`
`20:05.14`	`RichardRauch`	`But not the same as an "int". I assumed he was being technical.`
`20:05.34`	`JeffM2501`	`an int is also another type of integer :)`
`20:05.34`	`RichardRauch`	`We could assume an 8-bit integer, a.k.a. a {char} or a bit-field, if we want to be more general...(^&`
`20:05.45`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah we use a number of those too`
`20:06.18`	`RichardRauch`	`Anywho...64K probably isn't enough, but on the order of a billion is probably sufficient.`
`20:06.51`	`RichardRauch`	`(I tried making wings have very small acceleration and reduced gravity---so you can get a continuous flight by holding down the <tab> key...`
`20:07.13`	`RichardRauch`	`...but as fast as some keyboards key-repeat, 64K could be exhausted in a reasonable time frame.)`
`20:08.08`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC flaps of -1 means no limit`
`20:08.12`	`RichardRauch`	`The result is a cool gliding effect. (^&`
`20:08.20`	`RichardRauch`	`I tried setting to -1. It just wouldn't jump, in that case.`
`20:08.30`	`JeffM2501`	`hmmm`
`20:08.35`	`JeffM2501`	`what does 0 do?`
`20:13.05`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:13.05`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`20:13.05`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`20:14.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the server can check many things`
`20:15.07`	`JeffM2501`	`stuff just needs to be moved around`
`20:15.24`	`trepan`	`nope, stuff needs to be gutted`
`20:15.43`	`JeffM2501`	`gutting is a form of moving`
`20:15.48`	`JeffM2501`	`moving to the trash :)`
`20:15.55`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0201 (~536d982e@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`20:16.52`	`BearPerson`	`I think _Manu_ put a check for wings count into the server recently`
`20:17.25`	`BearPerson`	`the regular auto-kick-cheater kind`
`20:17.35`	`BearPerson`	`don't think it's in main CVS though`
`20:18.34`	`_Manu_`	`BearPerson, I didn't`
`20:19.17`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~Blue_Eyes@host198-31.pool212171.interbusiness.it)`
`20:19.47`	`_Manu_`	`BearPerson, it's in my fly anti-cheat, but still in testing`
`20:20.00`	`BearPerson`	`ah :)`
`20:22.48`	`bz0201`	`I have a problem...`
`20:22.51`	`menotume`	`~Chestal++ (thanks!)`
`20:23.02`	`BearPerson`	`shoot.`
`20:23.18`	`bz0201`	`When i connect to a game, bzflag exits :S`
`20:23.53`	`bz0201`	`using 2.0.2`
`20:24.04`	`_Manu_`	`win/linux/mac?`
`20:24.09`	`bz0201`	`win`
`20:24.21`	`bz0201`	`xp pro`
`20:24.26`	`_Manu_`	`can you run bzflag in a command console?`
`20:24.47`	`bz0201`	`dunno, think so`
`20:25.05`	`_Manu_`	`you mean bzflag crash?`
`20:25.10`	`JeffM2501`	`does it give any errors?`
`20:25.23`	`menotume`	`upon startup, or only when connecting ?`
`20:25.23`	`bz0201`	`nope, just closes the prog`
`20:25.36`	`bz0201`	`when connecting to a game`
`20:25.58`	`JeffM2501`	`what video card?`
`20:26.00`	`_Manu_`	`running bzflag in a console should help`
`20:26.04`	`JeffM2501`	`and what version?`
`20:26.14`	`BearPerson`	`2.0.2`
`20:27.14`	`bz0201`	`ATI Mobility Radeon 9600`
`20:28.04`	`JeffM2501`	`current drivers and directX?`
`20:28.52`	`bz0201`	`dirX 9.0b`
`20:29.41`	`JeffM2501`	`drivers?`
`20:29.52`	`bz0201`	`to sec.. in the phone`
`20:30.35`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:30.35`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`20:30.35`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`20:31.41`	`bz0201`	`driver ati2dvag.dll; version 6.12.0010.6375 (English)`
`20:33.13`	`bz0201`	`anyone with an idea?`
`20:33.43`	`JeffM2501`	`running form command line may show any errors`
`20:33.44`	`_Manu_`	`you can search file: bzflag.exe then open a command console and execute it... probably you'll see the errors in your console`
`20:34.05`	`JeffM2501`	`also is it any server? or just one?`
`20:34.12`	`bz0201`	`all servers`
`20:34.30`	`blast007`	`_Manu_: it doesn't output anything when I run it from my command prompt, even with -echo and -d`
`20:35.03`	`_Manu_`	`blast007, using windows?`
`20:35.07`	`blast007`	`yup`
`20:35.15`	`_Manu_`	`nice :/`
`20:36.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not -d on the client is it?`
`20:36.11`	`_Manu_`	`i think yes`
`20:36.26`	`_Manu_`	`JeffM2501, yes, tested`
`20:36.30`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`20:36.33`	`blast007`	`works with both -d and -debug`
`20:36.42`	`JeffM2501`	`does it die on any server?`
`20:36.47`	`JeffM2501`	`or just specific ones?`
`20:36.57`	`bz0201`	`on all servers`
`20:37.06`	`_Manu_`	`blast007, i'm not tested bzflag windows version since 1.11 but it reported messages`
`20:39.05`	`bz0201`	`It quits after: Loading map into viritual memory`
`20:39.17`	`_Manu_`	`blast007, are you sure not using black text on black background? ;)`
`20:40.08`	`blast007`	`it goes right back to a command prompt after the client starts to launch`
`20:40.14`	`_Manu_`	`bz0201, can you run a local server from the client and log in?`
`20:40.23`	`*** join/#bzflag cbg-brb (~Matthew@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`20:40.39`	`blast007`	`ah, but it can output to a text file`
`20:40.49`	`_Manu_`	`:)`
`20:40.52`	`blast007`	`ran: bzflag -d -echo > log.txt`
`20:40.53`	`blast007`	`:)`
`20:41.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Rusure (~1815d19e@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`20:41.47`	`bz0201`	`It quits on local server aswell`
`20:42.12`	`JeffM2501`	`ewww`
`20:42.13`	`_Manu_`	`weird.. what's your ram memory and free disk space?`
`20:42.44`	`bz0201`	`Free space: 5,97 GB`
`20:43.07`	`bz0201`	`512 mb ram`
`20:43.50`	`JeffM2501`	`you behind any kind of wierd proxy or strange net connection?`
`20:44.07`	`blast007`	`that shouldn't affect a local server`
`20:44.12`	`bz0201`	`not that im aware of :S`
`20:44.18`	`_Manu_`	`he is probably behind a Windows XP PROblematic :/`
`20:44.35`	`JeffM2501`	`XP works fine for me`
`20:44.46`	`_Manu_`	`yes, probably`
`20:44.57`	`bz0201`	`ill try update video driver`
`20:45.11`	`bz0201`	`to a even newer one`
`20:45.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it's probalby not GL`
`20:45.53`	`JeffM2501`	`since the menu starts and stuff`
`20:46.00`	`JeffM2501`	`you do see the menus and stuff right?`
`20:46.04`	`_Manu_`	`try run bzflag.exe -d -d -d`
`20:46.28`	`bz0201`	`the menues are fine`
`20:47.26`	`_Manu_`	`and read what reports when bzflag crash`
`20:47.55`	`JeffM2501`	`where did you get the build?`
`20:48.06`	`bz0201`	`sourceforge.net`
`20:48.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (~david@0e2bfb8d7f62548b.session.tor)`
`20:48.30`	`bz0201`	`and where do i find the error log?`
`20:48.31`	`_Manu_`	`bz0201, executed bzflag.exe -d -d -d or four -d`
`20:48.45`	`_Manu_`	`bzflag.exe -d -d -d -echo > yourlogfile.txt`
`20:48.52`	`bz0201`	`i did the tripple`
`20:49.02`	`_Manu_`	`and what do you get?`
`20:50.10`	`bz0201`	`nothing unusual :S`
`20:50.10`	`_Manu_`	`...`
`20:50.27`	`_Manu_`	`nothing unusual? what's usual for you?`
`20:50.35`	`JeffM2501`	`did you get anything?`
`20:50.39`	`JeffM2501`	`what was the last thing it said?`
`20:50.44`	`JeffM2501`	`that'll say where it dies`
`20:52.22`	`_Manu_`	`mmm Lazy CGI::IRC User :)`
`20:53.42`	`blast007`	`bz0201: did you run it from the command prompt, and with the " > yourlogfile.txt" ?`
`20:54.44`	`_Manu_`	`he is [nr] :(`
`20:54.45`	`bz0201`	`nope`
`20:56.10`	`_Manu_`	`bz0201, goto 13 lines up and do it`
`20:59.07`	*** join/#bzflag blast007` (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com)
`21:00.56`	`bz0201`	`I managed to connect with the bzadmin.exe`
`21:01.13`	`bz0201`	`so i think its the videocard`
`21:01.20`	`bz0201`	`driver`
`21:03.50`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`21:03.51`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`21:09.18`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0201 (~536d982e@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`21:09.42`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`21:09.43`	`bz0201`	`im back with updated driver, it didnt work`
`21:10.25`	`JeffM2501`	`sounds like you got ether a bad bad build or your XP is like jacked`
`21:10.53`	`bz0201`	`maybe both :S`
`21:12.18`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o jolie] by JeffM2501`
`21:13.08`	`bz0201`	`Can enyone with windows talk me step by step through the things i have to do??`
`21:13.19`	`JeffM2501`	`there isn't anything else to do`
`21:13.24`	`JeffM2501`	`you've done it`
`21:13.27`	`JeffM2501`	`it "should" work`
`21:13.38`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe reinstall`
`21:13.44`	`JeffM2501`	`well actualy 1 more thing to try`
`21:13.49`	`JeffM2501`	`open your my documents folder`
`21:13.49`	`bz0201`	`i dont think i did it right`
`21:13.59`	`JeffM2501`	`and throw away your "my bzflag files" folder`
`21:14.03`	`JeffM2501`	`then run again`
`21:15.10`	`jolie`	`^_^`
`21:15.33`	`bz0201`	`didnt help that either :-(`
`21:15.45`	`JeffM2501`	`then I'd reinstall`
`21:15.50`	`JeffM2501`	`other then that, I don't know`
`21:16.05`	`bz0201`	`but the d d d stuf`
`21:16.17`	`JeffM2501`	`that just logs things`
`21:16.36`	`JeffM2501`	`just do bzflag.exe -d -d -d > test.txt`
`21:16.41`	`JeffM2501`	`and then open text.txt`
`21:16.44`	`bz0201`	`yeah, i didnt see the logs`
`21:16.45`	`JeffM2501`	`see if it has anything`
`21:16.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so the file was empty?`
`21:16.54`	`bz0201`	`where to type that?`
`21:17.30`	`JeffM2501`	`in the command prompt`
`21:17.38`	`JeffM2501`	`after you CD to the bzflag folder`
`21:18.58`	`bz0201`	`add -d -d aso. after bzflag in the folder?`
`21:19.11`	`JeffM2501`	`3 -d`
`21:19.18`	`JeffM2501`	`then the > text.txt`
`21:19.20`	`bz0201`	`yeah`
`21:19.29`	`JeffM2501`	`after you CD to the dir where bz is`
`21:19.35`	`bz0201`	`> is not allowed`
`21:20.11`	`bz0201`	`CD..?`
`21:20.19`	`JeffM2501`	`change directory`
`21:20.24`	`JeffM2501`	`are you using the dos box?`
`21:20.34`	`bz0201`	`no...`
`21:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`where are you doing this then?`
`21:23.20`	`JeffM2501`	`we asked if you ran from a command prompt and you said yes`
`21:23.35`	`bz0201`	`think i got it now...`
`21:24.47`	`bz0201`	`Goddamn i suck`
`21:27.48`	`bz0201`	`would it help to install a earlier version?`
`21:28.35`	`JeffM2501`	`only as a test`
`21:28.50`	`_Manu_`	`well..it went from 2.0.0 to 2.0.2 because more than one reason.. but you can try it`
`21:28.51`	`JeffM2501`	`you could also try a beta 2.0.3x`
`21:29.24`	`bz0201`	`im trying 1.6.4`
`21:29.32`	`JeffM2501`	`what?`
`21:29.36`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no bzflag 1.6.4`
`21:29.57`	`_Manu_`	`bz0201, just curiosity... are you kidding?`
`21:30.27`	`bz0201`	`http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/BZEditW32_1.6.4-1_Installer.exe?download`
`21:30.37`	`bz0201`	`1.6.4.`
`21:30.58`	`BearPerson`	`bz-f-l-a-g != bz-e-d-i-t`
`21:31.26`	`bz0201`	`DOH!`
`21:32.18`	`bz0201`	`then im trying 2.0.0.`
`21:32.49`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@ACD4D032.ipt.aol.com)`
`21:34.00`	`JeffM2501`	`or use this one`
`21:34.01`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/builds/2.0.x/bzflag-2.0.3b4.exe`
`21:34.12`	`BearPerson`	`2.0.3b ?`
`21:34.16`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`21:34.18`	`_Manu_`	`cvs build`
`21:34.21`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`21:34.22`	`BearPerson`	`a 2.0 branch?`
`21:34.28`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`21:34.34`	`_Manu_`	`BearPerson, 2.0.3 is the develop version`
`21:34.36`	`JeffM2501`	`cvs as of a week or so ago`
`21:34.38`	`BearPerson`	`ahh`
`21:34.41`	`BearPerson`	`d'uh`
`21:34.48`	`JeffM2501`	`odd numbers are allways dev for even number releases`
`21:34.57`	`BearPerson`	`thought 2.2 was current stable`
`21:35.10`	`_Manu_`	`2.0.2 is the stable`
`21:35.22`	`JeffM2501`	`2.2.0 would be next major`
`21:35.39`	`BearPerson`	`right`
`21:38.41`	`bz0201`	`:( :( :( 2.0.3. didnt help`
`21:39.16`	`bz0201`	`I Give UP!`
`21:39.24`	`BearPerson`	`hmm`
`21:39.28`	`jolie`	`CLAPCLAP`
`21:39.31`	`jolie`	`heh`
`21:39.42`	`bz0201`	`:@`
`21:39.42`	`BearPerson`	`when you start up bzflag... what did it tell for "GL rendering device" or whatever?`
`21:39.50`	`BearPerson`	`at the bottom`
`21:40.23`	`_Manu_`	`BearPerson, his client just crash when he tries to log in a server`
`21:40.43`	`_Manu_`	`bz0201, some times reinstalling windows helps :/`
`21:40.48`	`BearPerson`	`lol`
`21:40.57`	`BearPerson`	`maybe no UDP installed?`
`21:41.20`	`JeffM2501`	`you can't not install UDP`
`21:41.20`	`_Manu_`	`who knows.. he is unable to run bzflag in a command console`
`21:41.24`	`JeffM2501`	`it's part of the stack`
`21:41.40`	`JeffM2501`	`probalby just bad build`
`21:41.43`	`JeffM2501`	`try the bad`
`21:41.45`	`JeffM2501`	`beta`
`21:42.04`	`BearPerson`	`well... I have seen windows versions where you still had to install an udp handler for the network device`
`21:43.07`	`menotume`	`BearPerson: I have your 'nomalized score' in now`
`21:43.13`	`BearPerson`	`thanks :)`
`21:43.17`	`menotume`	`works good excpet when someone first joins`
`21:43.43`	`menotume`	`do you think it should be 0 untill they have a few kills maybe ?`
`21:43.43`	`JeffM2501`	`BearPerson, when? back in 1990?`
`21:44.14`	`BearPerson`	`yeah... I had it / ( (wins+losses)>20 ? wins+losses : 20 )`
`21:44.36`	`menotume`	`hmm, lemme look`
`21:45.50`	`menotume`	`how about: ( (wins+losses)>10 ? wins/losses : 0 )`
`21:46.07`	`BearPerson`	`erm`
`21:46.32`	`_Manu_`	`then...11 wins and 0 loses.... :)`
`21:46.45`	`menotume`	`ahhh, i see - i am using float - a true ratio`
`21:46.51`	`BearPerson`	`the total formula I used was " ( wins - losses ) / ( (wins+losses>20) ? wins+losses : 20 )`
`21:47.16`	`menotume`	`+ if(losses)`
`21:47.16`	`menotume`	`+ return (wins*10/losses);`
`21:47.16`	`menotume`	`+ else`
`21:47.16`	`menotume`	`+ return wins*20;`
`21:47.18`	`menotume`	`:)`
`21:47.21`	`menotume`	`in your patch`
`21:47.25`	`menotume`	`but, i see`
`21:47.31`	`BearPerson`	`that was kill ratio I think`
`21:47.41`	`BearPerson`	`try normalized`
`21:47.55`	`menotume`	`not in the patch`
`21:48.05`	`BearPerson`	`hmm`
`21:48.09`	`BearPerson`	`right... I see it now...`
`21:48.10`	`menotume`	`standard, winsbylosses, tks, tk ratio`
`21:48.35`	`BearPerson`	`yeah... strange... must have dropped under the table at some point... have it in my client only`
`21:48.44`	`menotume`	`ok, np`
`21:48.55`	`menotume`	`I am using float, so 1:1 is 1.0`
`21:49.10`	`menotume`	`i'm thinking about adding it to the scoreboard display if sorted that way`
`21:49.19`	`BearPerson`	`I kinda like the normalized that way though...`
`21:49.35`	`BearPerson`	`1. it doesn't give players playing for long an advantage`
`21:50.01`	`BearPerson`	`2. people just in (<20 w+l) don't hop to the top or bottom of the chart immediately on their first kill`
`21:50.03`	`menotume`	`here is what i am doing: (float)wins/losses`
`21:50.22`	`BearPerson`	`yeah... works nicely too unless losses is 0`
`21:50.37`	`menotume`	`right, i dealt with that`
`21:50.45`	`BearPerson`	`I think the reason I did normalized was because it always kept nicely between -1.0 and +1.0`
`21:51.46`	`menotume`	`gotya`
`21:59.09`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@orchid.user)`
`22:04.08`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (~bzgirl@orchid.user)`
`22:04.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-139-232.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`22:11.03`	`menotume`	`can anyone recommend a good online STD library reference ?`
`22:11.30`	`JeffM2501`	`STD?`
`22:11.33`	`JeffM2501`	`stl?`
`22:11.38`	`menotume`	`stl, sry :)`
`22:11.40`	`JeffM2501`	`F1`
`22:11.43`	`menotume`	`standard template lib`
`22:11.47`	`JeffM2501`	`F1`
`22:11.48`	`creeperz`	`STD? :-P`
`22:12.05`	`menotume`	`f1 ?`
`22:12.24`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah that's all I hit and get all the info I need on any class, template, or function`
`22:12.47`	`menotume`	`ahhh, devhelp ?`
`22:12.58`	`JeffM2501`	`no F1`
`22:13.03`	`Tupone`	`http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/`
`22:13.10`	`menotume`	`thx tupone :)`
`22:13.16`	`JeffM2501`	`tha'ts a good site too :)`
`22:13.17`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`22:13.20`	`JeffM2501`	`not as good as F1`
`22:13.22`	`JeffM2501`	`but it'll do`
`22:14.23`	`*** part/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:19.11`	`orchid`	`heh menotume`
`22:19.20`	`menotume`	`:)`
`22:19.26`	`orchid`	`try #cooties`
`22:19.45`	`menotume`	`trying to find a 'printf' type of formatting in string class`
`22:19.58`	`JeffM2501`	`there isn't one`
`22:20.04`	`JeffM2501`	`are you in bz?`
`22:20.08`	`JeffM2501`	`code wise?`
`22:20.11`	`menotume`	`that could be why i can't find it :)`
`22:20.15`	`menotume`	`yes`
`22:20.30`	`JeffM2501`	`TextUtils::format("");`
`22:20.35`	`JeffM2501`	`same as sprintf`
`22:20.38`	`JeffM2501`	`returns a std::string`
`22:20.56`	`menotume`	`okies, thx`
`22:20.59`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`22:22.36`	`menotume`	`heh, just uses a fixed-size buffer to sprintf to :P`
`22:23.07`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`22:23.17`	`JeffM2501`	`sucks there is nothing built in`
`22:23.22`	`JeffM2501`	`MFC CString has one`
`22:23.27`	`JeffM2501`	`dono why stl never did one`
`22:24.32`	`purple_cow`	`arg, did someone revert my change?`
`22:24.36`	`purple_cow`	`i made it not use a fixed buffer...`
`22:25.09`	`purple_cow`	`err, not reverted`
`22:25.13`	`purple_cow`	`someone just rewrote it to be less clever`
`22:26.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego\|Desk@adsl-68-79-193-151.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)`
`22:27.53`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneRenderer.cxx: almost forgot, GL_SEPARATE_SPECULAR_COLOR`
`22:32.25`	`*** join/#bzflag jolie (~alex@p54A76ADC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:32.35`	`*** part/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:37.35`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-8-145.paradise.net.nz)`
`22:39.43`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-8-145.paradise.net.nz)`
`22:42.28`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-253-1-40-208.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`22:44.42`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, ping`
`22:45.25`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: when you have a mo, can you check m.b.o:100 to make sure nothing on the bb is broken? it looked OK, but i dunno if there are any sections or features which require more than basic PHP`
`22:46.12`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`22:46.19`	`JeffM2501`	`don't think it uses more then the basics`
`22:46.32`	`JeffM2501`	`list server work?`
`22:47.35`	`purple_cow`	`seems to`
`22:47.40`	`purple_cow`	`at least from the little web query page`
`22:48.07`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's the same live database, then one should be able to change there LS to port 100 and run fine`
`22:48.52`	`JeffM2501`	`testing atachements now`
`22:49.12`	`purple_cow`	`cool, looks like db works`
`22:50.27`	`JeffM2501`	`as do posts and stuff`
`22:50.31`	`menotume`	`BearPerson: http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/normalsort.png`
`22:50.33`	`JeffM2501`	`checking admin`
`22:50.39`	`menotume`	`that's using your algorithm :)`
`22:51.04`	`JeffM2501`	`can current apache be put on 100, and apache2 put on 80 for a bit`
`22:51.06`	`JeffM2501`	`just to make sure`
`22:52.17`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: sure`
`22:52.26`	`JeffM2501`	`well bb seems to work`
`22:52.31`	`JeffM2501`	`so I say just swap em`
`22:52.43`	`menotume`	`league works too`
`22:52.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and leave 1.x on some port so we can go back in DIRE cases`
`22:52.53`	`JeffM2501`	`for like a week`
`22:52.56`	`menotume`	`purple_cow: did you change mysql or php versions ?`
`22:52.57`	`JeffM2501`	`or if the riker freaks`
`22:53.58`	`BearPerson`	`meacan, except that you divide by wins+losses no matter how small they are`
`22:54.02`	`JeffM2501`	`but I say swap it`
`22:54.08`	`BearPerson`	`oops, sorry... menotume`
`22:54.27`	`menotume`	`hehe`
`22:54.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I've been running apache2 here for over a year with no problems what so ever`
`22:54.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I like the one file per site config thing`
`22:54.46`	`JeffM2501`	`much easyer to deal with`
`22:54.46`	`BearPerson`	`though... note how more than twice kills than losses is better than 240 - 140`
`22:55.01`	`menotume`	`in Player::getNormalizedScore(): return ((float)wins - losses) / ( (wins+losses) ? wins+losses : 20 );`
`22:55.27`	`menotume`	`ooops, error :)`
`22:55.29`	`BearPerson`	`turn the (wins+losses) ? into (wins+losses>20) ?`
`22:55.34`	`menotume`	`yep :)`
`22:55.58`	`purple_cow`	`eek, found a problem`
`22:56.14`	`purple_cow`	`haven't configured 2 to run on 81, 8000 or 443 right now`
`22:56.46`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: i don't see a real reason to run 1 on port 100. if we need to revert, the config files are all still there. just requires stopping on daemon and starting the other`
`22:56.53`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`22:56.55`	`JeffM2501`	`fair nuf`
`22:57.25`	`JeffM2501`	`as long as we can go back easy in the next week or so`
`22:58.02`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:58.49`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`22:58.49`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`22:58.49`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`22:59.21`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: what might I freak about?`
`22:59.34`	`JeffM2501`	`purple_cow changing to Apache2`
`23:05.28`	`*** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`23:05.28`	`*** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp \|\| http://BZFlag.org/wiki/Download \|\| http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking \|\| "Killing Spree"`
`23:05.28`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`23:06.22`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: how many units tall is a tank?`
`23:06.27`	`JeffM2501`	`2.08`
`23:06.40`	`JeffM2501`	`the girl is scaled to be 5 foot 6 inches`
`23:06.41`	`JeffM2501`	`religive`
`23:06.45`	`JeffM2501`	`asuming each unit is a meter`
`23:07.31`	`JeffM2501`	`puts a bz tank at about 83% the size of a M1A1 MBT`
`23:08.22`	`menotume`	`BearPerson: http://meno.zapto.org/bzcaps/tkratiosort.png I think we may need a sub-sort for all those 0s`
`23:08.43`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: looks more like 4' 2 3/4" to me`
`23:09.35`	`JeffM2501`	`she shouldn't be`
`23:09.36`	`BearPerson`	`maybe the >0's get +something and the 0s get -something`
`23:09.46`	`JeffM2501`	`I could a screwed up`
`23:09.50`	`BearPerson`	`(normalized - 1) :)`
`23:09.58`	`BearPerson`	`goes from -2.0 to 0.0 :)`
`23:09.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll tyr it again later`
`23:10.00`	`trepan`	`did it based on pixels, assuming front view is ortho`
`23:10.08`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it's ortho`
`23:10.15`	`Tupone`	`TimRiker: does the token server work with GET or POST, or just with GET ?`
`23:10.40`	`trepan`	`and 1 meter grid (which looks right for a 2.08m tank height)`
`23:11.22`	`TimRiker`	`Tupone: server side supports either. the server and client only use GET at present.`
`23:11.50`	`Tupone`	`so I can test some POST, so password is not logged, in case we use ssl`
`23:12.12`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: a 5'10" person is about 1.78 m, folks is getting taller these days :)`
`23:12.21`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: looks about right then, but I've never stood next to an M1A1 either. ;-)`
`23:13.13`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm 1.78`
`23:13.14`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`23:13.18`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll recale her then`
`23:13.27`	`JeffM2501`	`after I eat this fish :)`
`23:14.15`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 1.78m to inches`
`23:14.33`	`TimRiker`	`~70 / 12`
`23:14.35`	`ibot`	`5.833333333333`
`23:15.28`	`TimRiker`	`~convert 2.08m to feet`
`23:15.43`	`JeffM2501`	`that seems a tad short for a tank`
`23:16.43`	`trepan`	`but is it short for a one-man jumping tank?`
`23:17.16`	`JeffM2501`	`probably not`
`23:17.25`	`JeffM2501`	`don't think a bz is a full mbt`
`23:18.10`	`TimRiker`	`http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm`
`23:18.21`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/scale2.png`
`23:18.33`	`JeffM2501`	`that's her at about 1.75 units`
`23:18.52`	`creeperz`	`hmm, wonder whos going to win that gun fight`
`23:19.02`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I found sizes for M1A1 at wikipedia`
`23:19.07`	`JeffM2501`	`same data`
`23:19.26`	`JeffM2501`	`so a tank should WOULD hit a person`
`23:20.07`	`JeffM2501`	`interestiing thing is it places the shots at about the same level`
`23:20.15`	`trepan`	`~convert 1.57m to feet`
`23:20.27`	`JeffM2501`	`57?`
`23:20.32`	`trepan`	`even short people`
`23:20.34`	`JeffM2501`	`I did 75`
`23:20.42`	`JeffM2501`	`or is 57 where the shot is?`
`23:20.48`	`trepan`	`"_muzzleHeight", "1.57"`
`23:20.51`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`23:20.53`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:21.05`	`JeffM2501`	`midgets and children can live`
`23:21.21`	`trepan`	`~convert 0.15092 feet to inches`
`23:21.38`	`purple_cow`	`so the muzzle is just about head-height?`
`23:21.51`	`JeffM2501`	`head/neck yeah`
`23:23.43`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-8-145.paradise.net.nz)`
`23:24.28`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: that looks about right to me.`
`23:27.32`	`trepan`	`closer to this: http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin05/imag0424.jpg =)`
`23:27.39`	`JeffM2501`	`so bz tanks are "light tanks"`
`23:27.45`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:27.48`	`JeffM2501`	`tanklets`
`23:27.57`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`23:27.59`	`JeffM2501`	`should make a model like that one`
`23:28.40`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I like the tank from Metal Slug`
`23:28.59`	`TimRiker`	`heh. there was a tank that the bztank was modeled after. I don't recall if it was the m1 or not.`
`23:29.23`	`JeffM2501`	`the bz tanks' shape is that of a couple MBTs`
`23:29.32`	`JeffM2501`	`mostly in the turret`
`23:30.30`	`JeffM2501`	`http://aliens.humlak.cz/aliens/Aliens_papirove_modely/wip/pics/metalslug.gif`
`23:30.40`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.flyingomelette.com/oddities/sab/metalslug.gif`
`23:31.32`	`trepan`	`beaucoup treads here: http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin06/imag0551.jpg`
`23:31.56`	`JeffM2501`	`thats like the tank from Indy3`
`23:32.02`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.gorzow.mm.pl/~nippon/grafika/gifs/pojazdy/tank.gif`
`23:32.07`	`JeffM2501`	`that would be funny to model`
`23:32.27`	`trepan`	`or the Think Tanks model: http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=12`
`23:34.09`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah theres are good too`
`23:34.15`	`JeffM2501`	`tho have you ever played it?`
`23:34.23`	`JeffM2501`	`controls == funky`
`23:34.29`	`trepan`	`yup, for about 2 minutes`
`23:34.53`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm the explosion in that andimated gif is REALY detailed`
`23:34.54`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:846b:0:0:0:0:1)`
`23:36.00`	`JeffM2501`	`tho the bz tank really should be bonapate from Dominion: Tank Police`
`23:36.07`	`JeffM2501`	`complete with the chainsaw motor sound`
`23:36.39`	`JeffM2501`	`it could even jump`
`23:37.20`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-8-145.paradise.net.nz)`
`23:37.39`	`TimRiker`	`http://fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2A3.gif is pretty close too.`
`23:37.54`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah that's a similar shape`
`23:38.29`	`JeffM2501`	`very simialr`
`23:38.57`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, do you know if the first one was done by hand? or using some SGI modeler?`
`23:39.44`	`TimRiker`	`I don't recall. crs replied to questions about that early on. might be in the email archives someplace.`
`23:40.17`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: there's probably enough from in the email field to shove in a custom tank model pointer if you're in the mood to hack`
`23:41.40`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, yeah, there is also the "type" field`
`23:41.47`	`JeffM2501`	`been working on it :)`
`23:42.21`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/comparison.png`
`23:42.27`	`JeffM2501`	`that is probably an insperation for it`
`23:42.31`	`JeffM2501`	`red outline is bz tank`
`23:42.31`	`TimRiker`	`Tamar Cohen made the models from what I can dig up.`
`23:42.49`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:42.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I dind't know him tho`
`23:43.08`	`TimRiker`	`me neither.`
`23:43.14`	`TimRiker`	`wow. that _is_ close.`
`23:43.18`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:43.24`	`JeffM2501`	`many similar features`
`23:43.29`	`TimRiker`	`got a similar view for the various m1's?`
`23:43.43`	`JeffM2501`	`google probalby does :)`
`23:44.25`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad more then likely does as well`
`23:44.31`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: ah, 'type', i was thinking along the lines of downloaded custom models`
`23:44.54`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, the email field is not long enough for a URL`
`23:45.03`	`trepan`	`128 chars`
`23:45.13`	`JeffM2501`	`I was gonna send an ID, and then another message that had model URLs for each ID`
`23:45.16`	`JeffM2501`	`hmmm`
`23:45.20`	`JeffM2501`	`thought it was shorter then that`
`23:45.31`	`TimRiker`	`http://fprado.com/armorsite/Leo2_Pics/Leo2A4_NL.gif`
`23:45.34`	`JeffM2501`	`I have that new "get a dang resource" message`
`23:45.36`	`trepan`	`const int EmailLen = 128; // including terminating NUL`
`23:46.01`	`JeffM2501`	`http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M1.html&h=357&w=600&sz=34&tbnid=Q5OV-taD2BEJ:&tbnh=79&tbnw=133&hl=en&start=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3DM1a1%2Btank%26start%3D80%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c2coff%3D1%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN`
`23:46.11`	`JeffM2501`	`sorry`
`23:46.11`	`JeffM2501`	`http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/tank/M1.html`
`23:46.14`	`JeffM2501`	`there :)`
`23:46.15`	`trepan`	`but with customs, you'll have to do validity checks, min/max geometry, transparent materials, etc...`
`23:46.40`	`trepan`	`and set it up for spinning treads`
`23:46.48`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:46.55`	`JeffM2501`	`I have a plan`
`23:46.58`	`JeffM2501`	`just need more time`
`23:48.28`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/comparison2.png`
`23:51.11`	`*** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-8-145.paradise.net.nz)`
`23:51.41`	`JeffM2501`	`the bigest thing for models too is the explostion stuff`
`23:51.51`	`JeffM2501`	`making it compute the centers of all the sub objects`
`23:51.58`	`JeffM2501`	`or make it into something else`
`23:52.45`	`TimRiker`	`cool.`
`23:55.35`	`purple_cow`	`2.9?`
`23:55.37`	`JeffM2501`	`if only I coulda found this, http://my.bzflag.org/bb/images/posts/tank_maybe2.jpg`
`23:55.46`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: looked into the IDL yet?`
`23:55.57`	`JeffM2501`	`IDL?`
`23:56.00`	`JeffM2501`	`the lights?`
`23:56.11`	`trepan`	`inter-dimensional lights ...`
`23:56.18`	`JeffM2501`	`a change from the current shape to a cone would work for most models`
`23:56.25`	`JeffM2501`	`and still have the same effect`
`23:56.29`	`trepan`	`ah, go sloppy :)`
`23:56.48`	`JeffM2501`	`heh I'll leave the geo slicing to you then :)`
`23:57.09`	`JeffM2501`	`be cool to make it a particle effect and have stuff "pop" out like embers too`
`23:57.16`	`trepan`	`heh, like i'm likely to do anything`
`23:57.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I know :)`
`23:57.29`	`JeffM2501`	`purple_cow, shhhh... ;)`

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.