| 00:00.00 | JeffM2501 | then just make it a singleton |
| 00:00.08 | JeffM2501 | each object dosn't need to store a pointer |
| 00:00.14 | JeffM2501 | just a waste of memory |
| 00:00.33 | LordSarpedon | The static filter is first set by the main server, then used whenever something is about to be sent |
| 00:00.37 | Tupone | well, if it is static ... it is just one |
| 00:00.43 | LordSarpedon | It doesn't waste memory...because its static |
| 00:00.49 | JeffM2501 | why even put it in the class? |
| 00:00.56 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't blong to the class |
| 00:01.01 | JeffM2501 | why not just make a global? |
| 00:01.01 | LordSarpedon | Because it is static is also the reason that I cant init in the constructor |
| 00:01.15 | JeffM2501 | just make a global object of it |
| 00:01.20 | JeffM2501 | no need for a pointer at all |
| 00:01.22 | LordSarpedon | the other static member I looked at is not inited |
| 00:01.26 | JeffM2501 | no need to new or delete it |
| 00:01.28 | LordSarpedon | A pointer is needed |
| 00:01.30 | JeffM2501 | just let it go outa scope :) |
| 00:01.31 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 00:01.35 | Tupone | but they are declared |
| 00:01.51 | LordSarpedon | because this class will be inherited by different filters |
| 00:02.01 | JeffM2501 | so there WILL be more the one filter? |
| 00:02.07 | LordSarpedon | Allowing the server to create a new one and just set the pointer |
| 00:02.14 | Tupone | theu should be declared with a single statement, normally on the body of the class, outside any function |
| 00:02.25 | Tupone | just like :) line 22 of NetHandler.cxxx |
| 00:03.00 | JeffM2501 | if I was doing it in my OO style, and there could be more then one, I'd have a filter manager then |
| 00:03.06 | JeffM2501 | that was a singleton |
| 00:03.08 | LordSarpedon | Tupone, it is declared in the header |
| 00:03.10 | JeffM2501 | that would ask for each |
| 00:03.17 | Tupone | you need 2 declaration |
| 00:03.30 | Tupone | one, in the class is the syntactic declaration |
| 00:03.44 | JeffM2501 | decleration and definiition |
| 00:03.45 | Tupone | the other, like line 22 is an allocation and initialization |
| 00:04.44 | LordSarpedon | Ah. The problem was the lines were different between pastebin and my text editor. i see what you mean now |
| 00:05.51 | LordSarpedon | And i believe it is building properly. |
| 00:06.01 | Tupone | finally :) |
| 00:07.24 | LordSarpedon | Thank you, you must excuse me and my lack of C skills. I was spoiled by other languages that happen to have less obfuscated syntax |
| 00:08.01 | JeffM2501 | if you don't like it why use it? |
| 00:08.35 | LordSarpedon | because bzf is written in it |
| 00:08.42 | JeffM2501 | is there a geometric name for a pyramid with a base of only 3 edges? |
| 00:09.00 | JeffM2501 | besides "D4" |
| 00:09.09 | trepan | tetrahedron? |
| 00:09.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah that would be it :) |
| 00:09.58 | LordSarpedon | Heres an interesting error: undefined reference to `NetFilter::NetFilter()' |
| 00:10.11 | LordSarpedon | This is a different file, by the way |
| 00:10.16 | JeffM2501 | did you make your constructor public? |
| 00:10.22 | LordSarpedon | Whats odd is that the header for NetFilter is included |
| 00:10.22 | Tupone | Have you defined the constructor? |
| 00:10.33 | JeffM2501 | that too :) |
| 00:10.33 | Tupone | you need the body for that |
| 00:10.49 | trepan | JeffM2501: you have a way to convert UT to OBJ? |
| 00:10.57 | JeffM2501 | sadly no |
| 00:10.58 | LordSarpedon | Constructor is defined in the public section of class in the header |
| 00:10.58 | Tupone | did you put that on Makefile.am? |
| 00:11.01 | JeffM2501 | I looked |
| 00:11.09 | LordSarpedon | Makefile? |
| 00:11.15 | Tupone | OS ? |
| 00:11.22 | trepan | JeffM2501: not that I'm not having fun practicing modelling from a pic... |
| 00:11.31 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:11.34 | LordSarpedon | Windows, using the cygwin tools. My question is why do I need to edit makefile? |
| 00:11.38 | JeffM2501 | there is an editor |
| 00:11.50 | JeffM2501 | it exported to "some" text format |
| 00:11.53 | Tupone | who is compiling Filter? |
| 00:11.54 | JeffM2501 | it's not a mesh |
| 00:11.59 | trepan | radiant, or is that for something else? |
| 00:12.02 | Tupone | did you like it? |
| 00:12.08 | Tupone | link I meant |
| 00:12.08 | JeffM2501 | radiant is for q3 |
| 00:12.13 | JeffM2501 | unrealed is for ut |
| 00:12.34 | LordSarpedon | Ahh...so I must add my cpp file to the makefile? |
| 00:12.40 | Tupone | :) |
| 00:12.50 | Tupone | what tools are you using? |
| 00:12.51 | JeffM2501 | it stands to reason that someone "could" figure out the pre-compiled text format and make it meshes |
| 00:13.00 | Tupone | msys and mingw? |
| 00:13.04 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, it has to get compiled somehow :) |
| 00:13.19 | Tupone | or cygwin? |
| 00:13.41 | LordSarpedon | msys, sorry |
| 00:13.57 | Tupone | ok, go to the dir where you put Filter.cxx |
| 00:14.04 | Tupone | edit the Makefile.am |
| 00:14.15 | LordSarpedon | Or perhaps just run configure again? |
| 00:14.26 | Tupone | that after you change |
| 00:14.37 | JeffM2501 | trepan, the problem is IIRC unrealed only opens up maps saved in the intermediate format, not the compiled format, so geting those cool maps into the tool isn't posible |
| 00:14.46 | Tupone | edit the Makefile.am |
| 00:15.21 | LordSarpedon | Done |
| 00:15.35 | LordSarpedon | Do i need to add the header? Or will that be included automatically? |
| 00:15.50 | LordSarpedon | It seems to be picking up the header as is |
| 00:15.52 | Tupone | well, you need to, but not for compiling |
| 00:16.05 | Tupone | only for building release |
| 00:16.05 | JeffM2501 | trepan, here's the one ya gotta do :) |
| 00:16.06 | JeffM2501 | http://www.planetunreal.com/thunderstrike/code/maps.html |
| 00:16.13 | trepan | JeffM2501: unfortunate. my mouse just ran out of batteries anyways... i'm done ;) |
| 00:16.26 | JeffM2501 | bahh |
| 00:16.27 | JeffM2501 | http://www.planetunreal.com/thunderstrike/code/norfolk.html |
| 00:16.36 | JeffM2501 | that link |
| 00:16.42 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 00:17.10 | JeffM2501 | lowman's island map is realy neat. I think he is one of the few that "gets" it |
| 00:18.13 | *** join/#bzflag Mocking_bird (~1893a56b@rw08.de) |
| 00:18.22 | trepan | yup, he definitely gets it, needs a better tex mapping setup though |
| 00:18.30 | Mocking_bird | i |
| 00:18.33 | Mocking_bird | hi |
| 00:18.52 | Mocking_bird | how? |
| 00:19.11 | trepan | JeffM2501: hitting those launch arrows of his makes me think i'm gonna land on a koopa |
| 00:19.17 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:19.21 | JeffM2501 | tank needs a hammer |
| 00:19.23 | JeffM2501 | http://www.planetunreal.com/phalanx/textures.htm |
| 00:19.37 | JeffM2501 | 1024x1024 textures all nice and web hosted :) |
| 00:20.00 | trepan | i'll grab 'em once my mouse is revived, too lazy to copy-by-typing |
| 00:20.17 | Aribeth | hi trepan |
| 00:20.33 | trepan | hiya ari |
| 00:23.16 | spldart | Louman is awesome |
| 00:23.32 | spldart | Along with some of those images you posted jeff |
| 00:23.36 | spldart | planetunreal |
| 00:24.42 | JeffM2501 | that's just UT stuff |
| 00:24.51 | spldart | Very cool though |
| 00:24.59 | JeffM2501 | there are a lot of realy good artists in the FPS world |
| 00:25.15 | trepan | strange how louman figured it all out with so few questions asked |
| 00:25.25 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:25.32 | spldart | Did he have some background? |
| 00:25.35 | JeffM2501 | they must have a better high school |
| 00:25.39 | spldart | In 3d modelling |
| 00:25.57 | trepan | he must be an uber-genious, or literate |
| 00:26.13 | spldart | or 1337 ;) |
| 00:26.26 | trepan | he's got lightwave, so i assume he's done some modelling before |
| 00:26.33 | spldart | ah |
| 00:27.24 | trepan | taking le turn on le catwalk, and all that... |
| 00:31.25 | LordSarpedon | Well, it is compiled and working now |
| 00:31.44 | LordSarpedon | That was harder than it should have been...anyway, now I can move onto the actual filter logic |
| 00:37.15 | spldart | I would love to be be able to do maps even close to as good as his :( |
| 00:38.19 | spldart | was looking around Lightwave site. Nice tank http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/lw-gallery/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=191 Hope the link works |
| 00:38.53 | JeffM2501 | very nice |
| 00:38.59 | JeffM2501 | insane polycount |
| 00:39.29 | spldart | Need lots of pipelines and awesome gpu speed to make that move smoothly :( |
| 00:39.38 | spldart | In a bz map |
| 00:40.30 | JeffM2501 | in anyting |
| 00:40.48 | JeffM2501 | that at full detail would probably kill a workstation card, even un textured |
| 00:40.54 | spldart | sshhh... I was keeping it on topic ;) |
| 00:40.55 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:41.09 | spldart | So my 9800 Pro doesn't stand a chance :( |
| 00:41.23 | JeffM2501 | not even :) |
| 00:42.07 | spldart | Perhaps an alienware rig with the dual agp high powered cards. Suppossed to be 50% more powerful than a single high end card. |
| 00:42.32 | JeffM2501 | dual AGP? |
| 00:42.36 | JeffM2501 | you can't SLI agp |
| 00:42.46 | JeffM2501 | you can SLI PCI express |
| 00:42.48 | spldart | don't know how they do it but two video cards split the screen |
| 00:42.57 | JeffM2501 | yeah thats SLI |
| 00:43.00 | JeffM2501 | it's not agp |
| 00:43.00 | spldart | IC |
| 00:43.03 | JeffM2501 | it's PCI-E |
| 00:43.03 | spldart | my bad |
| 00:43.11 | JeffM2501 | that would get you closer |
| 00:43.12 | spldart | not agp... a slip... |
| 00:43.19 | spldart | was still thinking of my ati card :( |
| 00:43.30 | JeffM2501 | but your talking about poteinaly 10's of millions of polygons in that model |
| 00:43.44 | spldart | WOW |
| 00:43.45 | JeffM2501 | you may get one or 2 frames a second |
| 00:43.56 | JeffM2501 | bet it was all defined as surfaces |
| 00:44.22 | spldart | But it would be a 2 frames a second that would be so good you would need a cigarette after it was rendered ;) |
| 00:44.23 | purple_cow | you can't really take a model designed for offline render and use it in a game ;) |
| 00:44.29 | JeffM2501 | rememeber that tank model that he posted as a bz map? |
| 00:44.34 | spldart | yep |
| 00:44.42 | JeffM2501 | that had like 20k triangles |
| 00:44.48 | spldart | woah |
| 00:45.02 | JeffM2501 | now on this tank |
| 00:45.08 | JeffM2501 | big props to it's modeler |
| 00:45.18 | JeffM2501 | cus they had to freaking make all those little geometry thignys |
| 00:46.13 | spldart | One day... Maybe 10 years from now... BZ will have multi million triangle tanks /futuretelling |
| 00:46.15 | JeffM2501 | I mean every single tread on this one |
| 00:46.16 | JeffM2501 | http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/lw-gallery/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=180 |
| 00:46.47 | JeffM2501 | spldart, posibly, but then think what the maps would be, and then noone would know how to make them :) |
| 00:47.31 | spldart | Somebody would write a really awesome utility to make those complicated maps.... nudge nudge wink wink |
| 00:47.38 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:47.45 | JeffM2501 | can't make em with out creative input :) |
| 00:47.50 | JeffM2501 | the tools are there |
| 00:47.51 | JeffM2501 | right now |
| 00:47.55 | JeffM2501 | and they are FREEE |
| 00:48.29 | spldart | yeah... Which brings me back to the previous statement. I wish I had some of Loumans talent. |
| 00:49.56 | JeffM2501 | now we could get ya something like this |
| 00:49.57 | JeffM2501 | http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/191986 |
| 00:50.23 | uso | if a backtrace in gdb always brings the same address is this a loop than? |
| 00:50.38 | JeffM2501 | probably |
| 00:50.46 | spldart | kew |
| 00:50.57 | JeffM2501 | this one would be dooable |
| 00:51.00 | JeffM2501 | and keep with the theme |
| 00:51.00 | JeffM2501 | http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/189597 |
| 00:51.17 | JeffM2501 | 1.2k isn't unreasonable |
| 00:52.00 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to tell the software people to g stuff it :) |
| 00:52.14 | spldart | I see it now... BZ Future Wars |
| 00:52.44 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 00:52.49 | spldart | That looks pretty tough |
| 00:53.31 | uso | so again the ati drivers may be the reason for the crash :( |
| 00:54.11 | JeffM2501 | has a goodly amount of surface area for giveing team skins and stuff |
| 00:54.29 | JeffM2501 | tho I'd feel bad if it was blowed up in one hit |
| 00:54.38 | uso | hmm, wanna have a game which is nice playable or which looks nice? |
| 00:54.54 | spldart | I want my cake and eat it too |
| 00:55.01 | JeffM2501 | both |
| 00:55.11 | JeffM2501 | they are not mutualy exclusive |
| 00:55.20 | uso | why i have already known the answers ... :) |
| 00:55.31 | JeffM2501 | playablity is enahnced by imersion :) |
| 00:56.28 | spldart | :) |
| 00:57.40 | uso | mostly the simpler games give more long time-term fun |
| 00:57.55 | uso | long-term |
| 00:57.57 | JeffM2501 | you call everquest simple? |
| 00:58.24 | uso | i'm not an RPG fan ;) |
| 00:58.38 | JeffM2501 | dosn't change the fact that's it's a very long term game:) |
| 00:58.40 | JeffM2501 | quake |
| 00:58.46 | JeffM2501 | it's got a very complex world system |
| 00:58.51 | JeffM2501 | in fact that's about all it is |
| 00:58.57 | JeffM2501 | and people still play it :) |
| 00:59.04 | spldart | I was wondering. In some, possibly distant future, would a nice model be hard to upgrade in giving it some realistic properties.... IE |
| 00:59.14 | JeffM2501 | I think that to have longevity you have to have the game be modable so it can stay dynamic |
| 00:59.25 | spldart | accell and decel cause the tank to raise and dive. |
| 00:59.34 | spldart | Firing cause a rocking of the tank |
| 00:59.38 | JeffM2501 | bzflag will never have a tilting tank |
| 00:59.43 | JeffM2501 | makes gameplay too complex |
| 00:59.50 | spldart | ic |
| 00:59.52 | JeffM2501 | screws up aim too |
| 01:00.10 | JeffM2501 | since we have the edict of no major changes to gameplay, all we can do is work on the fluff parts |
| 01:00.15 | spldart | give it a stablizied firing system like the m1a1 [ducks] |
| 01:00.25 | JeffM2501 | they can still aim up and down |
| 01:00.27 | JeffM2501 | somewhat |
| 01:00.38 | spldart | ? |
| 01:00.39 | JeffM2501 | giving a bz tank aiming would change input |
| 01:00.52 | JeffM2501 | and then change gameplay |
| 01:00.53 | JeffM2501 | a lot |
| 01:00.56 | spldart | they can aim up and down ? |
| 01:00.59 | spldart | a bit? |
| 01:01.01 | JeffM2501 | you'd not be able to play with just the mouse |
| 01:01.05 | JeffM2501 | oh yeah |
| 01:01.14 | JeffM2501 | how do you think they pick range :) |
| 01:01.24 | JeffM2501 | barrel has about 25deg I thing of travel |
| 01:01.29 | JeffM2501 | not much |
| 01:01.39 | JeffM2501 | but still some |
| 01:01.40 | spldart | Oh... real tanks |
| 01:01.41 | spldart | yeah |
| 01:01.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:01.53 | JeffM2501 | if you tilt a bz tank |
| 01:01.58 | JeffM2501 | you have to give a way to aim thru the tilt |
| 01:02.00 | spldart | I assummed you keep the non real trajectory |
| 01:02.03 | spldart | straight line |
| 01:02.09 | JeffM2501 | yeah that would even make it worse |
| 01:02.12 | spldart | but allow the barrel to rock up and down a bit |
| 01:02.18 | JeffM2501 | you'd be allways shooting the air or the ground when you were tilted |
| 01:02.30 | JeffM2501 | to do that you'd have to have a controll for it |
| 01:02.39 | JeffM2501 | and for aiming it'd have to be a analogish controll |
| 01:02.41 | spldart | somebody camping on a block firing GM could be hit if he got close the edge |
| 01:02.42 | JeffM2501 | aka the mouse |
| 01:02.58 | JeffM2501 | that means you lose the mosue for forward movement |
| 01:03.07 | JeffM2501 | and swap to a quake wads style controll |
| 01:03.18 | spldart | was thinking of two keys to make it go up and down. with an auto centering feature built in |
| 01:03.33 | JeffM2501 | you'd be able to tap in an angle that fast? |
| 01:03.35 | spldart | Say A and Z |
| 01:03.42 | spldart | not really an angle |
| 01:03.42 | JeffM2501 | the mouse users would get you every single time |
| 01:03.44 | spldart | dialed in |
| 01:03.54 | JeffM2501 | the problem with keys is they have a fixed step |
| 01:03.56 | spldart | make it just sweep up and down 5 or 10 degrees |
| 01:03.57 | JeffM2501 | what if somone is at range |
| 01:04.00 | spldart | nothing in between |
| 01:04.01 | JeffM2501 | between steps |
| 01:04.06 | spldart | then you aim with your tank body and range |
| 01:04.16 | JeffM2501 | or just use the mouse :) |
| 01:04.21 | spldart | hehehe |
| 01:04.23 | JeffM2501 | and get all the angles between |
| 01:04.29 | JeffM2501 | as you can see it changes the game a LOT |
| 01:04.43 | JeffM2501 | opens up a number of other problems that have to be solved |
| 01:04.56 | JeffM2501 | not that there arn't solutions |
| 01:05.07 | JeffM2501 | but when it's all done is it still nice and simple old bzflag? |
| 01:05.24 | JeffM2501 | or is it now quake with slower players and tanks instead of dudes? |
| 01:05.49 | uso | it isn't the old bzflag already now ;) |
| 01:06.00 | JeffM2501 | in some regards yes |
| 01:06.03 | JeffM2501 | it's a FPS game |
| 01:06.04 | uso | if this would be an argument remove the wings ;) |
| 01:06.13 | JeffM2501 | wings is optional |
| 01:06.19 | spldart | Imagine the game directly as it is now. Add a 10 degree up angle with a keypress. and the angle goes to 0 when you releas the one key. And sneaking up at a bit of range on a GM and when he get's to close the edge. POW |
| 01:06.28 | uso | look at the servers ... optional ... lol |
| 01:06.34 | JeffM2501 | spldart, you'd never hit anyone at distance |
| 01:06.44 | JeffM2501 | uso, that must mean people like it :) |
| 01:06.56 | JeffM2501 | it is rather simple to master that's the nice thing about wingz |
| 01:07.09 | JeffM2501 | since your shots would not "lob" |
| 01:07.15 | uso | change movement to keys (it's digital anyway) and aiming to mouse |
| 01:07.17 | spldart | the camera view/site would also scroll up 10 degrrees |
| 01:07.42 | JeffM2501 | there wouldd end up being fixed distance "rings" around a tank that just arn't hitable |
| 01:07.44 | spldart | I do love BZ just as it is though :-p |
| 01:08.00 | JeffM2501 | sure, tilting the camera and the tank is easy |
| 01:08.07 | JeffM2501 | it's not realy a techincal challenge |
| 01:08.12 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is a 2d game |
| 01:08.19 | JeffM2501 | look at how people play just by radar |
| 01:08.20 | spldart | yeah |
| 01:08.33 | JeffM2501 | the choice is a design one |
| 01:08.42 | JeffM2501 | ( one of the few that have been made ) |
| 01:08.55 | cosmos | jeff you ever ponder making it a requirement to register in order to download the new clients? |
| 01:08.56 | uso | :) |
| 01:09.20 | JeffM2501 | that would mean losing the "LAN game" roots |
| 01:09.28 | spldart | I think the I'm lacking in the radar and view play and that's why I usually get owned. But with wings I'm good and hold my own well. |
| 01:09.29 | cosmos | yeah |
| 01:09.35 | cosmos | i havnt seen a LAN bzflag in 8 years |
| 01:09.44 | JeffM2501 | there are people who still play lan games |
| 01:09.51 | JeffM2501 | apernatly BZ is one of the few left |
| 01:10.02 | spldart | Heh. I started my server private for family matches. Then went public |
| 01:10.03 | cosmos | imho the benefit outweighs the minor hassle |
| 01:10.11 | JeffM2501 | I would personaly like to change the requirements to target hardware 3d, and internet play |
| 01:10.17 | JeffM2501 | so do stuff like require reg and that |
| 01:10.36 | JeffM2501 | cosmos, it does, the problem is legacy |
| 01:10.42 | cosmos | how hard would it be to build in a /register to the bzbb from within the client |
| 01:10.52 | cosmos | obviously the email confirm is still external |
| 01:10.57 | JeffM2501 | I keep saying current codebase should be just called "clasic" and just maintained, no neew features |
| 01:11.03 | JeffM2501 | and a new "bzflag2" made |
| 01:11.04 | cosmos | should be no more than POSTing to a form |
| 01:11.06 | JeffM2501 | that targets net play |
| 01:11.14 | cosmos | jeff i agree there |
| 01:11.20 | JeffM2501 | tim does not |
| 01:11.26 | JeffM2501 | and he hold the keys |
| 01:11.44 | JeffM2501 | only other choice is a violent fork |
| 01:11.49 | cosmos | yeah |
| 01:11.55 | JeffM2501 | and you lose the name |
| 01:11.57 | JeffM2501 | and the domain |
| 01:12.06 | JeffM2501 | and the devs that won't move |
| 01:12.08 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 01:12.09 | cosmos | we just call it jeff_and_cosmos_flag |
| 01:12.10 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 01:12.12 | JeffM2501 | etc... |
| 01:12.13 | cosmos | how about that |
| 01:12.17 | JeffM2501 | or maybe "opencombat"? |
| 01:12.36 | cosmos | i thought i saw a bzflag fork once |
| 01:12.52 | JeffM2501 | there exists no activly updated fork of the code that I know of |
| 01:13.45 | JeffM2501 | it seems there are 2 types of players today |
| 01:13.49 | JeffM2501 | those that love the old days |
| 01:13.54 | JeffM2501 | and those that thirst for more |
| 01:14.02 | JeffM2501 | I'm not sure if both can be served by the same app |
| 01:14.11 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:892a:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 01:14.21 | cosmos | i still play the original indyzone game on my sgi machines heh |
| 01:15.09 | spldart | I hate to see it. Cuz BZ is so cool as it is. But Just resting on classic may see a wane in new users after a while. |
| 01:15.13 | spldart | But I could be wrong. |
| 01:15.19 | spldart | see= say |
| 01:15.20 | uso | and those that never mind to be controlled and those that like their freedon ;) |
| 01:15.48 | uso | you must be hidden hard by your players ... |
| 01:16.06 | JeffM2501 | user turnover is decetly high |
| 01:16.16 | cosmos | of course the new stuff is bringing in all the spamming nazi tards heh |
| 01:16.20 | JeffM2501 | few players ( percentage wise ) stay for a long hual |
| 01:16.29 | JeffM2501 | most play it, then are done |
| 01:16.30 | JeffM2501 | and move on |
| 01:16.40 | JeffM2501 | after a bit of time, the game becomes repetiave |
| 01:16.40 | cosmos | alot of it is college/university turnover |
| 01:16.46 | spldart | Define Long haul please |
| 01:16.47 | cosmos | they play it on the campus lan for a few years |
| 01:16.50 | cosmos | then move on |
| 01:16.52 | spldart | I'm curious |
| 01:16.56 | JeffM2501 | and is not user modifyable ( in the sense the FPS crowd expects ) |
| 01:16.56 | spldart | Oh |
| 01:16.59 | cosmos | spldart ive been playing bzflag since 1994 |
| 01:17.03 | cosmos | i consider that long haul |
| 01:17.06 | JeffM2501 | more then a month or so |
| 01:17.11 | spldart | a year or two then quit is not long then |
| 01:17.17 | spldart | Oh. |
| 01:17.30 | JeffM2501 | a lot of players come play for a bit then are boored |
| 01:17.38 | JeffM2501 | unless they hook up with people they like |
| 01:17.41 | JeffM2501 | then they stay |
| 01:17.53 | JeffM2501 | bzflag has no pull for your "typical" gamer |
| 01:17.54 | cosmos | some of us unix nerds who never owned a pc do not find the game boring heh |
| 01:17.56 | JeffM2501 | other then it's free |
| 01:18.02 | spldart | so a month or two is a good definiting of a sub group of high turnovers |
| 01:18.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah cus they don't have anything else to play besides tuxracer :) |
| 01:18.44 | JeffM2501 | spldart, there are 10's of thousands of people playing quake right now |
| 01:18.50 | uso | you always have people which don't like a game and switch to the next |
| 01:18.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:19.01 | JeffM2501 | and there are only 2 games |
| 01:19.04 | JeffM2501 | basicly |
| 01:19.05 | JeffM2501 | in bzflag |
| 01:19.09 | JeffM2501 | so they can wear fast |
| 01:19.17 | JeffM2501 | unlike the other FPS games with tons of mods |
| 01:19.18 | cosmos | when i could finally run quake2 full screen at about 50-60fps on unix i was happy |
| 01:19.19 | JeffM2501 | to keep it fresh |
| 01:19.25 | cosmos | that octane MXE was a slick workstation |
| 01:19.49 | JeffM2501 | look at the responce 2.0 had |
| 01:20.00 | JeffM2501 | first was, wingz sucks |
| 01:20.04 | JeffM2501 | second was, maps are hard |
| 01:20.14 | JeffM2501 | thrird was, I don't want to reg |
| 01:20.33 | uso | agree to 1 ond 3 |
| 01:20.37 | JeffM2501 | the de boys even compared it to poop |
| 01:20.39 | uso | *and |
| 01:20.47 | spldart | :( |
| 01:20.49 | cosmos | de boys? |
| 01:20.57 | JeffM2501 | the contest thing |
| 01:21.18 | cosmos | oh |
| 01:21.20 | JeffM2501 | map wise you've got 2 maybe 3 people who realy "get" the power of the mesh objects |
| 01:21.36 | cosmos | only reason i went to 2 was for the global reg and cheat stuff |
| 01:21.39 | JeffM2501 | and those who do go to town make maps that don't run on the little old TNT's any more :) |
| 01:21.45 | cosmos | 1.x was beginning to look like swiss cheese cheat wise |
| 01:21.53 | cosmos | not that 2 is much better overall |
| 01:21.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:22.06 | JeffM2501 | nothing in the core has been done to help cheating |
| 01:22.11 | JeffM2501 | just some side patches |
| 01:22.17 | JeffM2501 | everyone skirts the core problem |
| 01:22.18 | uso | but what does the meshes bring for gameplay? |
| 01:22.23 | JeffM2501 | that it wasn't designed for net play |
| 01:22.29 | uso | it brings a lot for optics, but not for gameplay |
| 01:22.34 | JeffM2501 | uso, have you played the islands map? |
| 01:22.38 | JeffM2501 | it plays very difrent |
| 01:22.42 | JeffM2501 | and is fun |
| 01:22.45 | uso | it crashes for me |
| 01:22.48 | cosmos | you get a breather for a few months since all the windows cheat clients dont work |
| 01:22.49 | JeffM2501 | well then no |
| 01:22.52 | JeffM2501 | it's wicked cool |
| 01:22.54 | cosmos | but soon they will make 2.x versions |
| 01:22.57 | spldart | True the maps with mesh/textures require more vid card but I have noticed that even my old Geforce and 7500/8500 ati's keep up fine. |
| 01:23.18 | JeffM2501 | any GF should be ok for lowmans maps |
| 01:23.36 | spldart | yep |
| 01:23.46 | JeffM2501 | uso, to get from one CTF base to another you have to "jump" on jumppads to get from island to island |
| 01:23.47 | spldart | And those cards are relatively cheap nowadays |
| 01:23.52 | JeffM2501 | realy changed the play type |
| 01:23.53 | spldart | even geforce 2 does ok |
| 01:24.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah but we still have the requirement to support people with no 3d hardware |
| 01:24.19 | spldart | grr |
| 01:24.27 | spldart | Is that practical at the current level of maps? |
| 01:24.27 | JeffM2501 | and compiling on an old SGI o2 |
| 01:24.36 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC848B8D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 01:24.37 | JeffM2501 | that has a slower graphics chipset then my cell phone |
| 01:24.40 | cosmos | heh |
| 01:24.42 | JeffM2501 | no it's not |
| 01:24.47 | JeffM2501 | but we STILL have the requirement |
| 01:24.48 | cosmos | jeff i was still compiling on indys |
| 01:24.54 | cosmos | and an indigo |
| 01:24.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah it should still work |
| 01:25.01 | cosmos | does |
| 01:25.13 | JeffM2501 | probalby runs like ass on mesh maps tho |
| 01:25.18 | cosmos | but playability without turning all GL stuff that requires texturing is moot |
| 01:25.38 | cosmos | still runs great on indigo2 IMPACT and any Octane with texture ram |
| 01:26.00 | cosmos | in fact my octane MXE still runs circles around the osx playability heh |
| 01:26.02 | JeffM2501 | we still have support for sofware z buffers |
| 01:26.17 | JeffM2501 | just lots of stuff like that |
| 01:26.30 | JeffM2501 | things like we could be targeting hardware sound on windows |
| 01:26.37 | JeffM2501 | and geting dolby 5.1 |
| 01:26.58 | cosmos | i dont use windows ;) |
| 01:27.05 | JeffM2501 | I think the core thing now is it's being "maintained" |
| 01:27.07 | JeffM2501 | not pushed |
| 01:27.11 | JeffM2501 | but kept alive |
| 01:27.22 | JeffM2501 | many see it's ability to grow |
| 01:27.28 | sgk284 | JeffM2501, doesn't sdl or openal handle 5.1 ? |
| 01:27.43 | JeffM2501 | but I don't think that can happen and still keep the old user happy |
| 01:27.54 | JeffM2501 | sgk284, SDL nope, openAL does it's own software stuff on linux IIRC |
| 01:28.00 | JeffM2501 | sound is wacky on linux |
| 01:28.13 | sgk284 | heh yea |
| 01:28.16 | JeffM2501 | there isn't a vendor inspecific audio API that does hardware sound |
| 01:28.25 | sgk284 | :/ |
| 01:28.31 | JeffM2501 | so it's old dos style stuff where you ahve to target a card |
| 01:28.36 | JeffM2501 | or fake it all in software |
| 01:28.47 | JeffM2501 | where on windows, with DirectSound, the API just handles it |
| 01:28.51 | JeffM2501 | and does prety darn good |
| 01:29.03 | JeffM2501 | even lets the new cards do there own surround stuff |
| 01:29.10 | JeffM2501 | so it's allways right for the users setup |
| 01:29.20 | sgk284 | cool |
| 01:29.41 | *** join/#bzflag bzflagwiz (~wiz@12-217-171-34.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:29.49 | JeffM2501 | OSX dosn't even seem to care about 3d sound |
| 01:30.07 | JeffM2501 | linux seems to be saying "one speaker is good enough for anyone" :) |
| 01:30.14 | sgk284 | darn right ;) |
| 01:31.20 | scanline | JeffM2501: OpenAL? |
| 01:31.22 | scanline | :P |
| 01:31.32 | JeffM2501 | while I love open source, some things are nice when they are heavaly directed and pushed in a comercial maner, like sound APIs |
| 01:31.55 | JeffM2501 | some cards have openAL drivers don't they now? |
| 01:32.07 | JeffM2501 | it's the one that could unify them all |
| 01:32.12 | JeffM2501 | one ring to bind them |
| 01:32.16 | sgk284 | i'm not so sure it is a commercial/non-commercial issue so much as a too many choices issue :) |
| 01:32.23 | scanline | well, if you use OpenAL you don't have to care how the card support is implemented, if at all |
| 01:32.24 | JeffM2501 | it's not |
| 01:32.31 | scanline | you just write your game, and the hardware is someone else's problem.. just like OpenLG |
| 01:32.33 | scanline | er, OpenGL |
| 01:32.34 | JeffM2501 | comercial project just seem to drive harder |
| 01:32.37 | JeffM2501 | some open ones can |
| 01:32.41 | JeffM2501 | GL is like that yeah |
| 01:33.08 | JeffM2501 | why isn't everyone using openAL then? |
| 01:33.11 | JeffM2501 | like SDL |
| 01:33.14 | JeffM2501 | then it'd be super easy |
| 01:33.24 | scanline | SDL is designed to be simple, not complete |
| 01:33.32 | JeffM2501 | true enough |
| 01:33.44 | JeffM2501 | hence the mouse wheel issues the had a while ago :) |
| 01:33.54 | scanline | heh, SDL's mouse wheel handling has always sucked |
| 01:34.06 | scanline | and its joystick support is really mediocre compared to what linux itself offers |
| 01:34.22 | JeffM2501 | and compared to direct iput |
| 01:34.28 | JeffM2501 | Dinput isn't a bad API |
| 01:34.32 | JeffM2501 | Dplay |
| 01:34.37 | JeffM2501 | that is a bad bad api |
| 01:34.54 | uso | alsa on linux is somewhat shaky, but there's support for 5.1 |
| 01:35.18 | JeffM2501 | problem is allways knowing what any user of any distro has installed |
| 01:35.26 | JeffM2501 | so you end up with solutions that have to support all of them |
| 01:35.28 | JeffM2501 | ala SDL |
| 01:36.05 | purple_cow | alsa isn't really shaky :P |
| 01:36.12 | uso | no, mostly they have hardware which dont even support multichannel audio |
| 01:36.31 | JeffM2501 | hence why on windows it's nice that the OS does the mixing for you |
| 01:36.42 | JeffM2501 | so you can allways assume multitchannel |
| 01:37.02 | purple_cow | alsa can do the mixing too, it's just that very few distributions actually set things up properly =P |
| 01:37.26 | uso | get a cheap audio card and you have multichannel also on linux |
| 01:37.44 | JeffM2501 | a cheap audio card is a sblive |
| 01:37.58 | uso | buying graphics cards foe several 100 bucks and not having $30 or so for a sound card? |
| 01:38.12 | uso | yes, and that has multichannel |
| 01:38.26 | JeffM2501 | linux does seem rather hardware based |
| 01:38.31 | JeffM2501 | you allways have to know what you have |
| 01:38.32 | uso | i have one here |
| 01:38.36 | JeffM2501 | probalby why gentoo kicks my butt |
| 01:38.48 | JeffM2501 | but then now I don't want to install it cus then i'd be a ricer :) |
| 01:38.52 | uso | you always have to know what you have on linux |
| 01:39.12 | uso | at least to push your system to the limits :) |
| 01:39.17 | JeffM2501 | the computer industry convinced me 8 years ago that "plug and play" was a good thing |
| 01:39.21 | JeffM2501 | I belived them |
| 01:39.34 | JeffM2501 | linux did not |
| 01:40.17 | uso | you still believe them? |
| 01:40.19 | JeffM2501 | I mean on some disros I can't even hot plug in a USB mouse and have X see it |
| 01:40.27 | cosmos | thats because the linux developers had to finish grammar school first |
| 01:40.43 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 01:40.52 | JeffM2501 | ever get a responce from your 9th grade expert? |
| 01:41.48 | cosmos | nope |
| 01:41.58 | JeffM2501 | you may have made him cry |
| 01:42.09 | uso | you can't speak for linux as for windows, there's more than one "Linux" |
| 01:43.13 | cosmos | i liked linux 10 years ago before the "enlightened" windows teenager crowd found it |
| 01:43.35 | uso | oh yeah |
| 01:43.41 | JeffM2501 | there are an inifinate number of linuxes |
| 01:43.50 | JeffM2501 | so often it's hard to even talk about it |
| 01:43.52 | JeffM2501 | as a think |
| 01:43.52 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/tools/mapedit/ (8 files in 4 dirs): |
| 01:43.53 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: boxes, cylinders, pyramids ( 2 kinds), and sphers. |
| 01:43.53 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: all nice and smoothed and drawn in the clasic style. |
| 01:43.57 | cosmos | the final straw was calling redhat support 3 years ago and getting called back by some kid at a rave party |
| 01:44.04 | uso | that the biggest problem on linux, they should not try to make it for everyone |
| 01:44.21 | uso | lol cosmos |
| 01:44.26 | JeffM2501 | companys want one solution |
| 01:44.31 | JeffM2501 | why have to know 2 things |
| 01:44.32 | JeffM2501 | one is easyer |
| 01:44.39 | cosmos | unfortunately it doesnt work with pcs and linux |
| 01:44.46 | cosmos | there are a plethora of hardware vendors |
| 01:44.56 | purple_cow | uso: sure they should |
| 01:44.57 | cosmos | and no single distribution is tied solely to one |
| 01:45.11 | cosmos | you will never see the seamless integration as with propietary hardware/os |
| 01:45.22 | purple_cow | and they're getting much better with the plug & play thing |
| 01:45.28 | JeffM2501 | untill linux is as easy to install as windows my dad can never use it |
| 01:45.30 | JeffM2501 | they are |
| 01:45.40 | JeffM2501 | sarge found most of my hardware |
| 01:45.42 | cosmos | windows is easy to install? ;) |
| 01:45.51 | JeffM2501 | when you arn't doing anything fancy |
| 01:45.58 | JeffM2501 | and just filling in the info |
| 01:45.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 01:46.09 | uso | unfortunatly it is now easier to install as windows |
| 01:46.18 | JeffM2501 | XP install is cake |
| 01:46.20 | JeffM2501 | if not fast |
| 01:46.44 | JeffM2501 | OSX is even easyer |
| 01:47.00 | purple_cow | uso: things being easy is *not* a bad thing |
| 01:47.10 | JeffM2501 | that's where the proper direction to get 'nixy stuff into the home is |
| 01:47.14 | purple_cow | some of us want to spend our time using our computers to do useful things, rather than dicking around tweaking the setup |
| 01:47.20 | JeffM2501 | slap a slick face on the backend |
| 01:48.03 | JeffM2501 | I prefer to be using the computer, not looking for some odly named config file that may be in /var or /etc, depending on who made my ISO image |
| 01:48.25 | uso | purple_cow: i agree, but beeing harder to install keeps it for people really want it |
| 01:48.34 | purple_cow | that's a stupid argument |
| 01:48.37 | JeffM2501 | then you will never grow |
| 01:49.14 | purple_cow | what inevitably happens is that newbies find out about it and then come complaining, which is probably the problem you're *really* trying to solve here |
| 01:49.17 | JeffM2501 | it's the isolaionist attitude that will condem linux |
| 01:49.29 | purple_cow | and that problem can be solved by making things easy |
| 01:49.36 | cosmos | i always figured it was the communist attitude that will kill linux |
| 01:50.12 | JeffM2501 | if it was comunist there would be a "state" to direct things, and the individual developers would have little personal choice |
| 01:50.17 | JeffM2501 | linux is the oposet |
| 01:50.17 | uso | JeffM2501: i configure a system one time and than use it, so it doesn't really matter if i need an hour more for configuration |
| 01:50.18 | spldart | Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya |
| 01:50.19 | spldart | LOL |
| 01:50.22 | JeffM2501 | it's an amorphos blog |
| 01:50.28 | uso | but i CAN configure it for my needs |
| 01:50.41 | JeffM2501 | uso, you know what you are doing, you've done it many many many times before |
| 01:50.41 | orchid | communist attitude? |
| 01:50.57 | JeffM2501 | on a modern system I can install windows about 40 min |
| 01:51.01 | uso | many many times? what? |
| 01:51.18 | JeffM2501 | how many times have you set up linux systems? |
| 01:51.21 | JeffM2501 | in your life? |
| 01:51.33 | uso | JeffM2501: the linux installation is faster than a windows installation, at least for debian |
| 01:51.33 | cosmos | me? |
| 01:51.45 | uso | have done both lately, debian and xp |
| 01:51.58 | JeffM2501 | I'm just saying your good at installing linux |
| 01:52.01 | JeffM2501 | you have experince at it |
| 01:52.01 | orchid | cosmos: the people answering my questions down to the most tedious of detail, that attitude? |
| 01:52.07 | JeffM2501 | just like I do with windows |
| 01:52.13 | JeffM2501 | what you have to compare is the first time users |
| 01:52.16 | uso | i do not have to be good, every beginner can do it |
| 01:52.18 | JeffM2501 | cus that's the majority of them |
| 01:52.28 | JeffM2501 | then why can't I install gentoo? |
| 01:52.51 | uso | put in hostname, ip and a few simple other data ... that's it |
| 01:53.04 | uso | because it's gentoo ;) |
| 01:53.21 | Noodle-sensei | because gentoo is made for people who thoroughly enjoy "dicking around with the setup" :-) |
| 01:53.25 | JeffM2501 | for debian I had to go dig and find the chipset that was on my nic, before the kernel could even start |
| 01:53.38 | JeffM2501 | when windows just found it |
| 01:53.47 | JeffM2501 | they both installed of 1 CD |
| 01:53.52 | JeffM2501 | and went online for the current updates |
| 01:54.03 | Noodle-sensei | i really like the linspire setup |
| 01:54.15 | Death-Barrel | ~bzflag |
| 01:54.16 | ibot | somebody said bzflag was a 3D internet multiplayer multiplatform (linux, irix, win32, etc) opensource opengl Battlezone capture the flag game of the same name that you must try at http://BZFlag.org/ or a continual development project with periodic gaming interuptions. See also TimRiker |
| 01:54.17 | Noodle-sensei | for the most part, it's two clicks, and then it's installing |
| 01:54.28 | JeffM2501 | I have not tied linspire |
| 01:54.33 | Death-Barrel | ~TimRiker |
| 01:54.34 | ibot | i heard timriker is my owner http://rikers.org/ mailto:Tim@Rikers.org mailto:TimR@Debian.org mailto:Tim@TI.com maintainer of BZFlag, member of a ton of open source projects http://www.advogato.com/person/timriker/ http://sourceforge.net/users/timriker/ the guy who GPL'd SCO's ABI files, giving every Linux user the right to use them ;-), or a very cool person, or ... |
| 01:54.39 | Noodle-sensei | check it out, i'm sure you will like it much |
| 01:54.41 | JeffM2501 | I can install debian in my sleep now I think :) |
| 01:54.47 | Noodle-sensei | it's not free as in beer tho |
| 01:54.53 | JeffM2501 | I'm tired of swaping distros |
| 01:54.57 | JeffM2501 | got sarge |
| 01:54.58 | uso | that's hardware dependent, for some hardware windows has a driver included and linux xyz not and vice versa |
| 01:55.00 | Noodle-sensei | but i think i could hook you up with a copy, if you'd like |
| 01:55.01 | JeffM2501 | he's good to me |
| 01:55.22 | JeffM2501 | haven't found a nic windows hasn't had yet :) |
| 01:55.33 | JeffM2501 | after that it goes online and gets the rest |
| 01:55.38 | JeffM2501 | then I replace them cus they suck :) |
| 01:55.41 | orchid | :) |
| 01:56.15 | sgk284 | JeffM2501, with all do respect a linux install can include as many as 10,000 apps, you can install a distro and for users with simple needs nothing ever needs to be installed again, imho that a sweet deal |
| 01:56.23 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 01:56.26 | JeffM2501 | hence it's power ) |
| 01:56.29 | sgk284 | :) |
| 01:56.38 | uso | have an hp box, with plain XP neither the display nor the nic works ;) |
| 01:56.40 | JeffM2501 | but that's a lot for someone like my dad do wade thru :) |
| 01:56.58 | sgk284 | if you want a simple install go with yoper, 7 minutes to do a full install, you hit enter once to make it go and it asks no questions :) |
| 01:57.15 | sgk284 | i dont like yoper though, its one cd and doesnt have the ahrdware support that fedora or suse have |
| 01:57.16 | JeffM2501 | but then where is solitare? |
| 01:57.19 | JeffM2501 | and AOL? |
| 01:57.21 | sgk284 | lol |
| 01:57.24 | sgk284 | true |
| 01:57.25 | uso | rotfl |
| 01:57.29 | JeffM2501 | and the big E |
| 01:57.31 | Noodle-sensei | linspire has an AOL dialer |
| 01:57.36 | JeffM2501 | my dad is dependent on the big E |
| 01:57.44 | Noodle-sensei | that's one of their big features |
| 01:57.45 | JeffM2501 | I keep haveing to beat him off the E |
| 01:57.50 | Noodle-sensei | not the E, but the AOL dialer |
| 01:58.07 | JeffM2501 | last thing I did was change the firefox icon to the E |
| 01:58.13 | JeffM2501 | and named it "internet explorer" |
| 01:58.16 | sgk284 | JeffM2501, yea you need to get him clicking the cool lookign fox ;) |
| 01:58.37 | Noodle-sensei | anyone know of the "baby duck syndrome?" |
| 01:58.42 | JeffM2501 | subterfuge is easyer |
| 01:58.50 | sgk284 | heh |
| 01:59.05 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro) |
| 01:59.11 | JeffM2501 | and that is? |
| 01:59.27 | uso | solitare and more :) |
| 01:59.33 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 01:59.34 | sgk284 | yea many linux distros come with a ton of friggin games, possibly too many |
| 01:59.48 | JeffM2501 | that's the problem with many.. too much stuff |
| 02:00.03 | JeffM2501 | tho it's nice and easy to install stuf with apt |
| 02:00.11 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user) |
| 02:00.16 | sgk284 | lots of duplicates like ksnakerace, nibbles, and some gnome version of the same game all do the same thing with different names:) |
| 02:00.17 | JeffM2501 | asuming you know the bizare abreviated name for it |
| 02:00.17 | Noodle-sensei | i like how redhat tried fixing it |
| 02:00.33 | Noodle-sensei | one browser, one email client, one interface |
| 02:00.36 | Noodle-sensei | no choices |
| 02:00.38 | sgk284 | yea red hat has a nice naming convention |
| 02:00.41 | sgk284 | and setup |
| 02:00.41 | shorty114 | heh |
| 02:00.54 | Noodle-sensei | not good for a tweaker like me, but good for someone like JeffM2501's dad |
| 02:00.59 | JeffM2501 | my FC setup was one of the nicest install's I've done |
| 02:01.05 | JeffM2501 | did a good job of grouping things |
| 02:01.06 | shorty114 | JeffM2501: that it is |
| 02:01.23 | sgk284 | i had 3 debian servers running, 2 have been replaced by fedora cause I liked it so much :) |
| 02:01.48 | JeffM2501 | only reason I ditched fedora was I couldn't get devil to install |
| 02:01.55 | shorty114 | heh |
| 02:01.56 | bryjen | it amazes me how some poeple need everything to work exactly the same. how do they manager to operate more than one model of radio? |
| 02:02.02 | JeffM2501 | and I think the drive fell in the sink |
| 02:02.06 | sgk284 | not familiar with devil :) |
| 02:02.17 | shorty114 | rofl |
| 02:02.32 | JeffM2501 | the DEVelopers Image Library |
| 02:02.54 | sgk284 | oh |
| 02:02.57 | uso | i mean, everybody should take what matches his needs ... and should not lament if he tooks the wrong |
| 02:03.10 | shorty114 | hmm |
| 02:03.23 | JeffM2501 | I do wish there were more 3d model tools on the X |
| 02:03.32 | shorty114 | i actually have the time to reinstall linux, and it seems fit to wait for hoary |
| 02:03.35 | sgk284 | yea, i've gone through at least 15 distros over the past few years, i've settled on fc for the time being for about 1 and half years now |
| 02:03.50 | Noodle-sensei | gentoo forever |
| 02:03.51 | sgk284 | still paly with others on old boxes here and there |
| 02:03.55 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: pfft, blender is all you need ;) |
| 02:04.03 | Aribeth | Gentoo rocks |
| 02:04.03 | shorty114 | Noodle-sensei: i tried gentoo, but the CD wouldn't boot >.< |
| 02:04.05 | sgk284 | ugh gentoo... the most overhyped distro around ;) |
| 02:04.08 | JeffM2501 | blender is geting there |
| 02:04.36 | sgk284 | blender is pretty great, some of the animations and stuff in the blender gallery are impressive |
| 02:04.52 | sgk284 | blender was used in spiderman 2 iirc for a few things (wasn't the main tool) |
| 02:04.56 | JeffM2501 | same is said by users of every other single 3d modeler out there :) |
| 02:05.05 | Aribeth | heh, it works for me. and thats what matters. which distro works for you. |
| 02:05.08 | sgk284 | yea but blender is free :) |
| 02:05.23 | shorty114 | Noodle-sensei: i like the idea of gentoo being "compile-what-you-want/need", and i'd be using it, but the cd wouldn't boot :( |
| 02:05.37 | Noodle-sensei | what did it say? |
| 02:05.46 | sgk284 | if i pay $5,000 for a 3ds license it better damn well work well and be capable :) |
| 02:05.46 | JeffM2501 | so is a kick in the butt sgk284, dosn't mean it's the best thing in the world :) |
| 02:05.55 | shorty114 | Noodle-sensei: it didn't detect a bootable CD in the drive, IIRC |
| 02:05.59 | shorty114 | and i set the BIOS, before you ask |
| 02:06.05 | Noodle-sensei | hehe |
| 02:06.06 | shorty114 | :) |
| 02:06.12 | JeffM2501 | lightwave fits what I do well |
| 02:06.18 | Noodle-sensei | try it again, i say |
| 02:06.25 | shorty114 | Noodle-sensei: hmm |
| 02:06.28 | Noodle-sensei | it might have been something temporary that was fixed |
| 02:06.29 | shorty114 | wise words |
| 02:06.40 | shorty114 | i'll see about it |
| 02:06.45 | Noodle-sensei | and get the universal iso |
| 02:06.49 | sgk284 | JeffM2501, i wasn't saying free == good, just saying "not paying for quality" >= "paying for quality" most of the times in software |
| 02:06.53 | Noodle-sensei | it has tarballs for all 3 stages |
| 02:07.04 | shorty114 | Noodle-sensei: i got the live cd |
| 02:07.16 | Aribeth | well, unfortunetly not all of us can get lightwave |
| 02:07.24 | JeffM2501 | and blender wasn't free, just somone else allready paid for it for you :) |
| 02:07.39 | sgk284 | a whole bunch of somebody elses :) |
| 02:07.44 | JeffM2501 | that they did |
| 02:08.07 | sgk284 | $200,000 i think was raised for it, i did my part to support it and bought the blender book they sell even though you can read it online for free:) |
| 02:08.17 | sgk284 | big book |
| 02:08.28 | sgk284 | well i've read bigger, but its big enough |
| 02:08.41 | spldart | I'm trying to get lightwave right now |
| 02:09.15 | sgk284 | speaking of which... i need to buy my bzflag shirt:) |
| 02:09.19 | Death-Barrel | come take a break and enjoy some trivia >>> #bztrivia :) |
| 02:09.34 | JeffM2501 | I'm trying to figure out how to do my skyline |
| 02:10.15 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p54819D7F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:10.22 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC848B8D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 02:18.42 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~462008fc@rw08.de) |
| 02:18.58 | Chikorita | n/msg nickserv identify 123321 |
| 02:19.01 | Chikorita | omg |
| 02:19.05 | Chikorita | grr |
| 02:19.10 | Chikorita | nno1 saw dat |
| 02:19.15 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:19.16 | Chikorita | ! |
| 02:19.20 | uso | be fast :) |
| 02:19.29 | JeffM2501 | that's not realy a good password |
| 02:19.43 | bryjen | not anymore ;) |
| 02:20.02 | Chikorita | ugh |
| 02:20.17 | Chikorita | it was ez 2 remember ...ive so many passwords .. |
| 02:20.43 | Chikorita | ndreaded "n" disease |
| 02:20.47 | Chikorita | -n |
| 02:20.51 | Chikorita | gr |
| 02:21.02 | JeffM2501 | hence why N is a bad key for bzflag, it should be "enter" :) |
| 02:21.28 | Chikorita | ya |
| 02:21.35 | Chikorita | good idea =) |
| 02:22.57 | Chikorita | yay |
| 02:23.14 | Chikorita | i changed it heehe |
| 02:24.14 | uso | another good idea would be to make bzflag recognice "/" as an alias for "n/" |
| 02:24.31 | cosmos | bill maher was hella funny last night |
| 02:28.30 | uso | oops, FPS: 0 |
| 02:28.35 | uso | not that good :( |
| 02:30.31 | uso | who was asserting a GeForce2 should be enough for loumans islands map? |
| 02:31.22 | spldart | Me. Cuz I did it |
| 02:31.27 | spldart | And a ATI 7500 |
| 02:31.59 | spldart | Settings weren't maxed out though. |
| 02:32.21 | uso | needs about 5 seconds per frame |
| 02:32.51 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:892a:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 02:33.46 | uso | at least it does not crash ;) |
| 02:35.32 | uso | spldart: windows or linux? |
| 02:35.47 | uso | although i use nvidia binary driver |
| 02:38.15 | spldart | windows of course |
| 02:38.17 | spldart | ;) |
| 02:39.04 | uso | could it be a cpu issue on that map? |
| 02:39.25 | uso | it's only a P3/850 in my laptop |
| 02:40.02 | spldart | And I'm running dual bartons at 2240mhz apiece. |
| 02:40.29 | spldart | Well... On the ati 7500 |
| 02:40.42 | spldart | The GF is running a tbred at 2ghz |
| 02:40.52 | uso | secretplace is running with 70..80 fps |
| 02:41.09 | uso | so it must be the CPU |
| 02:41.14 | spldart | I'd check FR's real quick but i'm recording a movie |
| 02:41.34 | spldart | BZ doesn't like ati multimedia center |
| 02:42.53 | spldart | can you play timetrials with decent fps uso? |
| 02:44.26 | uso | which server is this? |
| 02:44.54 | uso | have it |
| 02:45.36 | spldart | It's a louman map that he hosts sometimes and I host all the time. But I wouldn't recommend jumping on min right now. I'm hogging the bandwidth for emule :p |
| 02:47.40 | uso | no, also seems to be slow |
| 02:47.47 | *** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:47.56 | JeffM2501 | how does this look? |
| 02:47.57 | JeffM2501 | Official |
| 02:48.01 | JeffM2501 | opps |
| 02:48.01 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/~jeffm/header.png |
| 02:49.47 | uso | and timetrials also crash on my radeon |
| 02:50.53 | uso | hehe, from loumans island? |
| 02:51.36 | JeffM2501 | ja |
| 02:52.32 | uso | don't know what there has been before, but looks better than the bzflag logo in the game |
| 02:52.45 | JeffM2501 | we've had a bunch of logos |
| 02:52.53 | JeffM2501 | I "should" reuse the logo from the main site |
| 02:53.22 | JeffM2501 | I was kinda pissed when I made the game logo |
| 02:53.29 | JeffM2501 | the tank is just too booring |
| 02:53.48 | uso | yes :) |
| 02:54.13 | *** part/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:54.13 | uso | could it be that Louman's maps need a lot of CPU? |
| 02:54.25 | JeffM2501 | it's not small |
| 02:54.32 | JeffM2501 | but that would just make it run slower |
| 02:55.10 | uso | it runs "slower" on my laptop with a geforce2 |
| 02:55.26 | uso | if you would call 5 seconds per frame as slow :) |
| 02:55.34 | JeffM2501 | it's going to do a fair amount of cpu stuff |
| 02:57.11 | uso | but it's a factor of about 500 compared with e.g. secretplace |
| 02:57.41 | JeffM2501 | SP has a lot less mesh verts :) |
| 02:57.55 | uso | :) |
| 02:58.29 | spldart | Hrm.. All the machines in my lan play louman fine Some need to not have anything going on in the background. |
| 02:58.46 | spldart | Well... All but the server wich has an old rage 3d card heh |
| 02:58.52 | uso | what is your slowest CPU spldart |
| 02:58.53 | uso | ? |
| 02:59.54 | spldart | Umm XP 1800 |
| 03:00.02 | uso | anybody here with a P3 to test loumans map with it? |
| 03:00.02 | spldart | Runs at 1533 mhz if I remember correctly |
| 03:00.20 | cosmos | my slowest cpu runs at 20mhz i believe |
| 03:00.40 | uso | but it doesn't run bzflag cosmos ;) |
| 03:00.45 | spldart | server doesn't count cuz no real 3d. but it has a amd k6 2 500 running at 440 to 460 mhz |
| 03:01.03 | cosmos | sure it does |
| 03:01.45 | uso | oops, some stone edge risc workstation? |
| 03:01.45 | cosmos | up until a month ago my quickest machine runnign bzflag was 360mhz |
| 03:01.58 | spldart | woah |
| 03:01.58 | cosmos | and it runs it better heh |
| 03:02.11 | cosmos | these are all sgi mips machines |
| 03:02.32 | spldart | Well I'm not even going to try to run bz on my server. It's, by personal rules, not allowed to surf the net or play games. |
| 03:03.01 | spldart | It just deals in packets ;) |
| 03:03.03 | uso | bzflag 1.10 was running on a PII/350, but 2.0 not |
| 03:03.26 | cosmos | cpu is irrelevant on a bz server |
| 03:03.42 | cosmos | toss an old sparc IPX lunchbox on a DS3 and it will serve fine |
| 03:04.03 | uso | yes, bzfs is running on a PI/233 with not more than 20% CPU usage |
| 03:04.43 | uso | hehe, old IPX :) |
| 03:04.58 | cosmos | theres not much in the server code which is good and bad. if it handled all the shots/trust issues instead of the clients it would require alot more |
| 03:05.07 | cosmos | but of course then cheats would not be so simple |
| 03:05.10 | uso | does bzfs compile on solaris 1? |
| 03:05.18 | cosmos | it did |
| 03:05.27 | cosmos | i had a sunos 4.1.4 box as of a year ago that worked |
| 03:06.16 | uso | nice :) |
| 03:06.16 | uso | this old sun boxes were rock solid |
| 03:06.17 | cosmos | i only compiled the server of course |
| 03:06.55 | cosmos | yeah i ran a sunos 4.1.4 IPX doing internal ntp/dns nonstop from 1995 until 2003 |
| 03:07.06 | uso | hasn't good 3d cards ;)) |
| 03:07.35 | uso | 8 years uptime, wow |
| 03:08.45 | cosmos | we had full source so after they really stopped supporting sunos 4 in 94/95 we audited the code, fixed the y2k and net/resolv issues relevant to us and let em run forever |
| 03:12.19 | *** part/#bzflag Chikorita (~462008fc@rw08.de) |
| 03:21.57 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 03:21.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 03:38.52 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-117-97.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 03:47.38 | spldart | ~query cosmos |
| 03:47.53 | spldart | ~msg cosmos |
| 03:47.58 | cosmos | whats shakin |
| 03:48.00 | spldart | How do you do the open new box thing again? |
| 03:48.07 | bryjen | try /query |
| 03:48.12 | cosmos | new boz? |
| 03:48.29 | bryjen | slash is for IRC command, tilde is just ibot |
| 03:48.41 | spldart | ah |
| 03:48.42 | spldart | thanks |
| 03:48.44 | JeffM2501 | it's /msg cosmos dude sup? |
| 03:49.12 | cosmos | no pop up windows in unix ircii client heh |
| 03:49.20 | spldart | ah |
| 03:50.11 | spldart | Just talking WAY off topic with cosmos |
| 03:51.18 | spldart | Didn't think you would appreciate it in here JeffM ;) |
| 03:51.25 | cosmos | prob not |
| 03:52.39 | bryjen | the island hopping map runs a bit slow for me (P3-733 Radeon 7500 AGP Linux 2.6 x.org 6.8.1 DRI) |
| 03:52.48 | bryjen | it looks really nice tho :) |
| 03:53.32 | bryjen | the adjusted tank and shots speed throw me off |
| 03:59.53 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (~lan56@h-68-165-238-160.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 04:10.27 | bzflagwiz | uso - thread is a bit old, but I run fine on louman's islands map with a 1GHz athlon/radeon 7500 AIW. |
| 04:12.32 | orchid | clocks go forward tonight? |
| 04:12.58 | brlcad | egads |
| 04:13.07 | brlcad | they do don't they |
| 04:13.16 | JBdiGriz | You still have clocks that you have to set manually? |
| 04:13.45 | brlcad | JBdiGriz: only the hamster-driven clocks |
| 04:13.58 | brlcad | they have to run in double-time for a few hours |
| 04:14.33 | JBdiGriz | Put some uppers in their hamster food. |
| 04:15.49 | JBdiGriz | cosmos is going to get an unfriendly visit one of these days if he keeps advertising his stash. |
| 04:15.54 | brlcad | JBdiGriz: saw aba on a movie earlier today ;) |
| 04:15.58 | cosmos | what stash |
| 04:17.19 | cosmos | JB: pillbox, overlord, or babel, whats your vote? :) |
| 04:18.17 | JBdiGriz | I've always been partial to pillbox, but I'm usually in the minority. |
| 04:18.24 | cosmos | heh |
| 04:18.35 | cosmos | i actually got more votes for pillbox than i would have thought |
| 04:24.40 | cosmos | 3 - 0 pillbox |
| 04:27.45 | orchid | 4-0 |
| 04:28.53 | cosmos | hooray! |
| 04:29.23 | cosmos | i found the pillbox map by accident a couple years back heh |
| 04:29.40 | cosmos | valentino.hepcat.org was running a random FFA map before i put it up just to be different |
| 04:29.46 | cosmos | never expected it to becoe so popular |
| 04:34.37 | uso | dont know babel, but for the others pillbox |
| 04:34.53 | uso | although it has by far to much shots |
| 04:35.26 | uso | bzflagwiz & bryjen: which bzflag version? linux or windows? |
| 04:35.55 | uso | what's going wrong here that it's sooo slow or crashes on my boxes |
| 04:36.52 | uso | you are lucky with clocks going forward only now, we have summertime since easter |
| 05:02.51 | bryjen | i don't think the windows bzflag would run too well on this linux PC ;) |
| 05:03.25 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~DeathBarr@adsl-70-240-102-172.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 05:14.46 | Pimpinella | cosmos: another vote for pillbox |
| 05:15.02 | cosmos | hooray |
| 05:23.34 | shorty114 | votes? |
| 05:23.56 | cosmos | i took an informal poll on hepcat maps, pillbox/overlord/babel |
| 05:25.50 | shorty114 | online? |
| 05:25.57 | cosmos | no just here on the channel |
| 05:26.20 | shorty114 | oh |
| 05:26.27 | shorty114 | hmm i'd take pillbox too |
| 05:31.36 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-84.caltech.edu) |
| 05:35.13 | Death_Barrel | more trivia is about to start |
| 05:35.16 | Death_Barrel | #bztrivia |
| 05:35.19 | Death_Barrel | 2 min |
| 05:38.04 | bzflagwiz | uso - 2.0.3 (from a couple of weeks ago). WinXP |
| 05:39.43 | cosmos | hrm |
| 05:41.40 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (~RPG@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 05:42.02 | RPG_ | hi |
| 05:42.23 | shorty114 | hello. |
| 05:42.31 | RPG_ | anyone here really good with linux? |
| 05:42.35 | RPG_ | and BZFS? |
| 05:42.46 | cosmos | heh |
| 05:42.55 | cosmos | we had a lovely linux discussion earlier... |
| 05:42.59 | cosmos | whats the issue RPG |
| 05:43.00 | RPG_ | all i want to do is run a Linux bzflag server |
| 05:43.10 | RPG_ | and it's so confusing |
| 05:43.43 | RPG_ | What's the best way to get BZFlag for FC3, OBLISK, RPM, or complie source? |
| 05:44.03 | cosmos | i always compile my own stuff |
| 05:44.10 | RPG_ | I tried compiling but I don't have a C comilier. |
| 05:44.14 | cosmos | its not hard, you just cvs update from bzflag.org |
| 05:44.20 | RPG_ | configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH |
| 05:44.24 | cosmos | autogen and make |
| 05:44.31 | cosmos | heh |
| 05:44.32 | RPG_ | i did ./configure first |
| 05:44.35 | cosmos | whats your $PATH |
| 05:44.41 | RPG_ | can i do up2date {something} to get a C compiler? |
| 05:44.52 | RPG_ | it MIGHT come in handy in the future... |
| 05:45.01 | cosmos | first off what is your PATH |
| 05:45.38 | RPG_ | how do i find that |
| 05:45.46 | RPG_ | [administrator@localhost bzflag-2.0.2.20050318]$ |
| 05:45.47 | cosmos | or this is redhat? jsut do a an rpm -qa | grep gcc |
| 05:45.52 | RPG_ | it's Fedora Core |
| 05:46.21 | cosmos | if you cant figure out your PATH your probably not up to compiling/running bzfs heh |
| 05:46.25 | RPG_ | that returns: libgcc-3.4.2-6.fc3 |
| 05:46.32 | cosmos | yeah |
| 05:46.36 | cosmos | no dev environment installed |
| 05:46.51 | RPG_ | :sigh: |
| 05:47.03 | cosmos | im not familiar with fedora but you probably jsut have to install the development group |
| 05:47.13 | RPG_ | the installer has a bug |
| 05:47.17 | RPG_ | it won't let you install :( |
| 05:47.22 | cosmos | what |
| 05:47.27 | cosmos | how did you even get a system then |
| 05:47.39 | bryjen | what installer? that oblisk thing? |
| 05:47.46 | RPG_ | I installed with it was running Anaconda, but after i got it running I coulnd't add any packages |
| 05:48.32 | cosmos | hrm doesnt sound good, id first try to fix the fedora insttall before working on anything else |
| 05:48.33 | RPG_ | wait... it's working now |
| 05:49.24 | RPG_ | i think |
| 05:49.44 | RPG_ | installing... that's good |
| 05:56.09 | RPG_ | ok... I passed ./configure |
| 05:56.20 | RPG_ | but it says no SDL! |
| 05:56.27 | RPG_ | even after i got the dev. package |
| 05:56.59 | cosmos | explain how you "got the dev package" |
| 05:57.09 | cosmos | oh you mean the fedora compilers |
| 05:57.13 | cosmos | SDL has nothing to do with them |
| 05:57.15 | RPG_ | I used the Add/Remove programs tool, and installed the Fedora dev package |
| 05:57.27 | RPG_ | then i did up2date SDL, and it told me my SDL was up to date |
| 05:57.59 | cosmos | just for now rpg |
| 05:58.14 | cosmos | run configure but pass it --disable-SDL |
| 05:58.17 | cosmos | or whatever the option is |
| 05:59.04 | RPG_ | it's already compliing |
| 05:59.08 | RPG_ | i was too anxious :) |
| 05:59.17 | RPG_ | i'm only using it for BZFS |
| 05:59.19 | cosmos | its might bomb |
| 05:59.28 | cosmos | you should have done --disable-client |
| 05:59.36 | cosmos | so it builds only server stuff |
| 05:59.38 | RPG_ | oh... not familiar with those |
| 05:59.42 | RPG_ | command |
| 05:59.42 | RPG_ | s |
| 05:59.43 | RPG_ | s |
| 05:59.55 | bryjen | no, if it doesn't detect the stuff it needs, it sets the --disables itself |
| 06:00.10 | RPG_ | once it's installed, how do i run bzfs? |
| 06:00.13 | RPG_ | with my conf file |
| 06:00.24 | bryjen | bzfs -conf config.file |
| 06:00.33 | RPG_ | do i have to be in the directory of the config.file? |
| 06:00.59 | cosmos | rpg: do a ./configure --help |
| 06:01.02 | cosmos | it shows you options |
| 06:01.06 | bryjen | yeah, or specify the full path bzfs -conf /some/dirs/conf.file |
| 06:01.50 | RPG_ | argh! |
| 06:02.01 | RPG_ | make[2]: *** [bzfs] Error 1 |
| 06:02.01 | RPG_ | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/administrator/bzflag-2.0.2.20050318/src/bzfs' |
| 06:02.01 | RPG_ | make[1]: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 |
| 06:02.41 | bryjen | what's right above that? |
| 06:02.55 | RPG_ | ../regex/libregex.a -lz -L/usr/lib -lcurl -L/usr/kerberos/lib -lssl -lcrypto -lgssapi_krb5 -lkrb5 -lcom_err -lk5crypto -lresolv -ldl -lz -lgssapi_krb5 -lkrb5 -lk5crypto -lcom_err -lresolv -L/usr/kerberos/lib -lidn -lssl -lcrypto -lssl -lcrypto -lgssapi_krb5 -lkrb5 -lcom_err -lk5crypto -lresolv -ldl -lz -lz ../date/libDate.a -lm |
| 06:02.55 | RPG_ | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lidn |
| 06:02.55 | RPG_ | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 06:03.17 | RPG_ | that was when i was doing make install |
| 06:04.14 | bryjen | there's a library missing, libidn |
| 06:04.17 | cosmos | i dont get a warm feeling about the status of your system install from what you told us |
| 06:04.30 | cosmos | like i said before id concentrate on building a complete useable system before bzfs heh |
| 06:04.31 | RPG_ | libidn |
| 06:05.11 | RPG_ | I'm new to Linux |
| 06:05.13 | RPG_ | Windows all my life |
| 06:05.42 | RPG_ | GRRR!!! i tried to update libidn and it says this The following packages you requested are already updated: |
| 06:05.42 | RPG_ | libidn |
| 06:05.51 | RPG_ | but they're not! |
| 06:06.03 | bryjen | i don't have that one here. i do recall someone else's system needing some fiddling about that |
| 06:06.22 | RPG_ | if i only install bzfs would that work |
| 06:06.57 | bryjen | that's what it was trying to build when it died |
| 06:07.05 | RPG_ | oh |
| 06:07.15 | RPG_ | would an RPM be easier |
| 06:07.25 | bryjen | possibly |
| 06:07.50 | bryjen | it'll either work or not. ;) |
| 06:08.29 | RPG_ | OK, it's installed under bzflag.rpm in my /home/ directory |
| 06:08.34 | RPG_ | i mean downloaded, not installed |
| 06:08.42 | RPG_ | to be safe, what should i do/type? |
| 06:08.54 | spldart | bye all |
| 06:11.11 | RPG_ | now RPMs broke |
| 06:11.16 | RPG_ | or i did soemething |
| 06:12.00 | cosmos | rpg can you accept dcc? |
| 06:12.09 | RPG_ | most likely |
| 06:12.22 | cosmos | just for giggles, try running that bzfs executeable |
| 06:12.26 | RPG_ | holy crap i'm getting something |
| 06:12.32 | RPG_ | oh a file transfer |
| 06:12.37 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:12.45 | RPG_ | half hour?!?! |
| 06:12.53 | cosmos | what kind of connection do you have |
| 06:12.56 | RPG_ | cable |
| 06:13.03 | RPG_ | what about one of those remote desktop tings |
| 06:13.04 | cosmos | dcc aint the quickest |
| 06:13.05 | cosmos | one sec |
| 06:13.45 | cosmos | [A |
| 06:13.52 | cosmos | try that one |
| 06:15.06 | RPG_ | it's stuck at waiting |
| 06:15.15 | cosmos | close it on your end |
| 06:15.36 | RPG_ | DCC REJECT GET bzfs |
| 06:15.43 | cosmos | nothing waiting now? |
| 06:15.49 | RPG_ | nothing at all |
| 06:15.58 | RPG_ | oops |
| 06:16.03 | RPG_ | aborted it |
| 06:16.07 | cosmos | heh |
| 06:16.10 | RPG_ | it's 12:15 AM here |
| 06:16.20 | cosmos | now? |
| 06:16.28 | RPG_ | i click accept |
| 06:16.31 | RPG_ | and it's still waiting |
| 06:17.07 | cosmos | if that doesnt work ill just put it up for ftp or something |
| 06:17.24 | RPG_ | do just want to control my PC |
| 06:17.30 | cosmos | no |
| 06:17.31 | cosmos | i dont |
| 06:17.32 | RPG_ | i did a remote desktop once before |
| 06:18.03 | cosmos | ok just get it at http://www.hepcat.org/bzfs |
| 06:18.21 | cosmos | a word of advice do NOT offer to allow strangers to control your pc |
| 06:18.29 | RPG_ | oh |
| 06:18.37 | RPG_ | it's a lousy server with nothing on it |
| 06:18.39 | RPG_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:18.45 | cosmos | makes no difference |
| 06:18.57 | cosmos | it will have plenty on it once a script kiddie takes over |
| 06:19.01 | RPG_ | it's in home now |
| 06:19.02 | RPG_ | lol |
| 06:19.09 | RPG_ | bzfs.bin is in /home/administrator |
| 06:19.18 | RPG_ | now what |
| 06:19.22 | cosmos | you should be able to chmod 755 bzfs |
| 06:19.31 | cosmos | and then just execute it like ./bzfs |
| 06:19.58 | RPG_ | ./bzfs -conf conf.conf ? |
| 06:20.14 | cosmos | sure but id just do ./bzfs and make sure it spits out the options etc |
| 06:20.24 | cosmos | ie its not missing libs and such |
| 06:21.01 | RPG_ | ./bzfs: error while loading shared libraries: libcurl.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 06:21.09 | cosmos | yeah i figured as much |
| 06:21.16 | RPG_ | oh good |
| 06:21.17 | cosmos | oh well |
| 06:21.25 | Death_Barrel | brlcad, just wondering if you saw anthing that needs to be corrected? (if you have even looked yet) |
| 06:21.35 | Death_Barrel | i will change the freenode one |
| 06:22.03 | menotume | can the 'how vs tlz' one be made to work as 'tlz vs how' too ? |
| 06:22.07 | cosmos | what does ldd bzfs say rpg_ |
| 06:22.21 | RPG_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.28 | cosmos | hahaha |
| 06:22.44 | cosmos | oh well thats from a redhat 9 system i believe |
| 06:23.25 | Death_Barrel | not sure meno |
| 06:23.33 | cosmos | hey menotume |
| 06:23.35 | Death_Barrel | i will see if it is possible |
| 06:23.45 | menotume | hi cosmos ! |
| 06:23.51 | brlcad | Death_Barrel: i did see some things |
| 06:23.59 | brlcad | i'll send it back with notes |
| 06:24.13 | Death_Barrel | ok great |
| 06:24.18 | Death_Barrel | eric@kelsoes.com |
| 06:24.25 | brlcad | it's case insensitive, I assume/hope |
| 06:24.40 | menotume | yes - i think it was |
| 06:24.46 | brlcad | that would be presumed given you sent it to me ;) |
| 06:24.54 | brlcad | (your e-mail, that is) |
| 06:24.59 | menotume | ohhh, opps |
| 06:25.29 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 06:25.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 06:25.36 | Death_Barrel | what my email? |
| 06:25.37 | menotume | shhhhh - here he is |
| 06:26.06 | menotume | hi JeffM2501 :) |
| 06:26.08 | RPG_ | nhi |
| 06:26.10 | JeffM2501 | hi |
| 06:27.00 | Death_Barrel | hey JeffM2501 |
| 06:27.11 | brlcad | heh, db some of the answers are wrong :) |
| 06:27.48 | Death_Barrel | really? |
| 06:27.52 | DTRemenak | haha |
| 06:27.54 | Death_Barrel | lol |
| 06:27.57 | menotume | according to league site, first match was moles vs (deleted team) |
| 06:28.06 | Death_Barrel | that isn't the question |
| 06:28.13 | Death_Barrel | question was 3rd match |
| 06:28.33 | RPG_ | what should i do |
| 06:28.40 | Death_Barrel | i think that deleted team was The Fab Frogs (volache) |
| 06:29.01 | brlcad | Death_Barrel: is that file the actual input file? |
| 06:29.24 | Death_Barrel | yeah they are just txt files |
| 06:29.46 | Death_Barrel | but for right now until we have a few hundred questions i just add it in with the other db |
| 06:30.07 | cosmos | rpg_ i would redo the os install properly first |
| 06:30.32 | RPG_ | I believe it is installed correctly |
| 06:30.47 | RPG_ | i told you the install was bugged, but I mean tthe add/remove programs app |
| 06:30.58 | cosmos | missing libs and compilers etc |
| 06:31.03 | cosmos | is not installed correctly |
| 06:31.04 | RPG_ | oh |
| 06:31.37 | cosmos | there should be a default install for fedora right? ie the majority of the os and programs |
| 06:31.44 | cosmos | something new folks start with |
| 06:32.12 | RPG_ | I installed the 'server' package |
| 06:32.31 | RPG_ | and just now I used add/remove programs (I worked aroudn the bug) and installed the dev enviroment |
| 06:32.52 | cosmos | server is probably stripped down for security/tightness |
| 06:32.57 | RPG_ | you had to have a CD in the drive to get it to run right before you installed, i think |
| 06:32.58 | cosmos | not something you compile/develop on |
| 06:33.13 | cosmos | install the developer workstation choice or whatever is closest |
| 06:33.15 | RPG_ | what packages do i install next time i reinstall the OS? |
| 06:33.36 | RPG_ | ok... i'll do that |
| 06:33.52 | cosmos | or better yet what choices does fedora give you |
| 06:33.55 | cosmos | ill tell you what to pick |
| 06:34.07 | RPG_ | I think it was Workstation, Desktop, and Server |
| 06:34.15 | RPG_ | and then there was an "install all" and "install minimal" |
| 06:34.17 | JeffM2501 | pick em all :) |
| 06:34.24 | cosmos | yeah that too |
| 06:34.28 | RPG_ | k |
| 06:34.28 | cosmos | everything will not hurt |
| 06:34.41 | cosmos | pick workstation and install all |
| 06:35.04 | RPG_ | I'm gonna reinstall, then probably fall off my chair sleeping |
| 06:35.13 | RPG_ | so don't expect me back :) |
| 06:35.37 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (~RPG@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 06:36.12 | JeffM2501 | first one screwd up so bad he has to reinstall? |
| 06:36.18 | cosmos | shoudl have given him a blessing first |
| 06:36.24 | cosmos | he was missing compilers |
| 06:36.26 | cosmos | libs etc |
| 06:36.31 | cosmos | and couldnt even tell me his PATH |
| 06:36.37 | cosmos | in over his head |
| 06:36.45 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 06:37.03 | cosmos | said the installer broke or something |
| 06:37.10 | cosmos | at that point i told him to stop and fix his os |
| 06:37.28 | JeffM2501 | "broke" |
| 06:37.31 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 06:37.56 | cosmos | he will be back at every step frozen in his tracks |
| 06:38.24 | JeffM2501 | so it's like a BIYA but for linux? |
| 06:38.30 | cosmos | yeah |
| 06:38.35 | cosmos | thats why i said im turning into you |
| 06:38.49 | cosmos | normally cosmos would be uttering profanities within 5 minutes |
| 06:41.54 | cosmos | well spiffy, Dervish posted that im a cool guy heh |
| 06:42.26 | bryjen | now he's holding newbies hands and reffering to himself in the 3rd person ;) |
| 06:42.50 | cosmos | haha |
| 06:49.27 | uso | cosmos: are there any tank settings changed in pillbox? |
| 06:49.41 | uso | changed from standard i mean |
| 06:50.40 | cosmos | shouldnt be no |
| 06:50.42 | cosmos | why |
| 06:52.35 | uso | subjective it has a bit of inertia, a small delay in reaction, not as reactively |
| 06:53.07 | uso | just have played some time with 1.10 and then with 2.0 on pillbox |
| 06:53.49 | uso | 1.10 reacts faster |
| 06:54.04 | uso | don't know how to say this better in english :( |
| 06:54.28 | uso | btw on 1.10 it was much harder to get on top :) |
| 06:55.16 | cosmos | hrm |
| 06:55.29 | cosmos | perhaps some defaults changed |
| 06:56.39 | trepan | try /diff with newer clients |
| 06:56.43 | uso | another effect is, that i shoot more often through people with 2.0 although the lag of most people was higher on the 1.10 |
| 06:56.46 | uso | server |
| 06:57.23 | uso | trepan: ah, this shows all settings which were changed from standard? |
| 06:57.51 | cosmos | you can use more than one -helpmsg right jeffm? |
| 06:58.22 | uso | gives only endshotdetection |
| 06:59.21 | uso | nice command this diff |
| 07:00.38 | uso | grr ... if this 2.0 would run smooth on my box ... it has such a lot of nice new features |
| 07:03.17 | uso | hehe, cosmos, you are brave, recommend someone who did not even have a compiler on his box to compile sources :) |
| 07:05.01 | cosmos | i did not know that before he asked |
| 07:05.13 | cosmos | i then promptly told him to step back and reinstall properly |
| 07:05.25 | uso | :) |
| 07:06.17 | cosmos | hes pretty green |
| 07:06.27 | cosmos | hes going to be in here every couple of steps lost |
| 07:06.40 | uso | have compiled bzflag an hour ago or so ... a lot of dev libs were missing on a otherwise pretty complete installation ;) |
| 07:07.08 | uso | *first time on my laptop |
| 07:07.32 | cosmos | yeah but you sound like you can work through it |
| 07:07.39 | cosmos | he couldnt even tell me his PATH |
| 07:08.23 | uso | yes i can, but therefore i know how high is the hurdle for someone never had compiled a program before on his box |
| 07:09.43 | uso | i'm still searching for the reason why the louman maps are so extremly slow on my box |
| 07:10.36 | cosmos | tons of meshes etc and your video is not top of the line |
| 07:11.54 | uso | yes, but 5 seconds per frame with a geforce2go!? |
| 07:12.46 | uso | bryan and bzflagwiz got it run normally on comparable hardware |
| 07:12.54 | trepan | depth buffer on? |
| 07:13.22 | uso | dont think a radeon 7500 is faster |
| 07:13.36 | uso | yes, but double check it |
| 07:14.09 | uso | yes, it's on |
| 07:14.39 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-165-17-133.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 07:14.48 | cosmos | trepan: can you have multiple -helpmsg lines passed to bzfs ? |
| 07:14.48 | trepan | smoothing off, shadows off ? |
| 07:14.55 | trepan | cosmos: why don't you try it ? |
| 07:15.07 | cosmos | i have not working but i swear it did in 1.x |
| 07:15.09 | trepan | would have had the answer by now ;) |
| 07:15.22 | cosmos | before i chase the source i wanted to ask |
| 07:15.25 | uso | smoothing was on, i try if it has an effect |
| 07:15.59 | uso | but other maps like secretplace are running with about 70 fps |
| 07:16.12 | trepan | ya, it works |
| 07:16.22 | trepan | took me that long to write 2 files, start a server, and test it |
| 07:16.47 | cosmos | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:17.00 | cosmos | paste your -helpmsg line for idiot me please |
| 07:17.10 | trepan | format: bzfs -helpmsg help1 help1 -helpmsg help2 help2 |
| 07:17.23 | trepan | filenames are help1 and help2 |
| 07:17.25 | cosmos | i have them on seperate lines in my conf |
| 07:17.29 | cosmos | but otherwise the same |
| 07:17.45 | trepan | could be a bug in the conf parsing |
| 07:17.46 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC848B8D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 07:18.10 | cosmos | yeah im going to switch those out to the bzfs command line |
| 07:18.28 | trepan | nope, just checked, works fine |
| 07:18.39 | cosmos | well ill be |
| 07:22.51 | uso | oh damned, did not thought that smoothing has such a devasting effect on this map |
| 07:22.51 | trepan | uso: also, try the different radar modes |
| 07:22.52 | uso | thanks a lot trepan, without smoothing it runs with about 30 fps |
| 07:23.09 | uso | with smoothing 0.2 fps :( |
| 07:23.41 | trepan | "fast" is oft better for mesh maps |
| 07:26.58 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 07:27.16 | uso | yes, gets some more fps |
| 07:35.03 | Pimpinella | what means log message "ws"? |
| 07:39.25 | cosmos | pimp? |
| 07:39.34 | Pimpinella | cosmos: ? |
| 07:39.40 | sgk284 | SportChick, see my name yesterday? |
| 07:39.57 | cosmos | what log message ws |
| 07:40.01 | cosmos | ie where do you see it |
| 07:40.20 | Pimpinella | on |
| 07:40.20 | Pimpinella | bzflag-commits@lists.so |
| 07:40.20 | Pimpinella | bzflag-commits@lists.sourceforge.neturceforge.net |
| 07:40.28 | Pimpinella | oops |
| 07:40.35 | Pimpinella | bzflag-commits@lists.sourceforge.net |
| 07:41.39 | trepan | ~ws |
| 07:41.40 | ibot | i guess ws is short for workstation. White Space, or the country code for Western Samoa |
| 07:41.53 | trepan | take your pick |
| 07:42.01 | cosmos | heh |
| 07:43.21 | Pimpinella | i always suspected JeffM has a faible for west samoa |
| 07:44.36 | trepan | then that would make Tim the king of west samoa |
| 07:45.31 | Pimpinella | suspicious... |
| 07:46.20 | Pimpinella | prolly he's illegaly exporting technology? |
| 07:46.32 | Pimpinella | ;) |
| 07:46.36 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 07:46.38 | Pimpinella | away |
| 07:48.12 | _Manu_ | morning! |
| 07:55.41 | cosmos | morning |
| 07:55.44 | cosmos | midnight here |
| 07:58.51 | _Manu_ | cosmos, :) |
| 08:01.44 | cosmos | whats going on manu |
| 08:04.20 | _Manu_ | just sunday morning.. watching formula one racing on tv :) |
| 08:05.38 | cosmos | heh |
| 08:05.55 | cosmos | sunday am here now too. |
| 08:06.43 | _Manu_ | here it's 10.07 am |
| 08:07.06 | cosmos | where are you at |
| 08:07.21 | _Manu_ | i'm at Spain |
| 08:07.27 | cosmos | ahh. los angeles here |
| 08:07.37 | _Manu_ | heh.. spanish name ;) |
| 08:08.08 | cosmos | spanish conquistador given i believe |
| 08:08.13 | cosmos | or missions |
| 08:08.17 | _Manu_ | LA :) |
| 08:08.43 | cosmos | lots of spanish spoken here but of the mexican variety |
| 08:08.45 | _Manu_ | yes.. many of thems were from my region :) i live in Trujillo |
| 08:09.08 | cosmos | we had a woman from spain working for us, she referred to mexicans as "dogs" |
| 08:09.17 | _Manu_ | yes, i know.. many ppl speaking spanish in USA |
| 08:09.32 | _Manu_ | oh.. |
| 08:10.15 | _Manu_ | really spanish and mexicans.. not very good friends |
| 08:10.29 | _Manu_ | because wars from the past |
| 08:10.37 | cosmos | not just spaniards, other central american countries like peru etc also refer to them harshly |
| 08:10.47 | cosmos | they are lowest in the spanish speaking pecking order it seems |
| 08:11.45 | _Manu_ | don't know any mexican.. so i can't give you what i think :) |
| 08:11.56 | cosmos | heh |
| 08:12.08 | _Manu_ | but i think those are topics.. |
| 08:12.27 | cosmos | its mainly because they mostly work manual labor and their spanish is not as polished in terms of linguistics |
| 08:12.41 | cosmos | all i know is they speak spanish too fast for me to keep up |
| 08:12.44 | _Manu_ | probably |
| 08:13.01 | _Manu_ | less culture/studies |
| 08:13.23 | cosmos | its human nature to put someone else down :) |
| 08:13.36 | _Manu_ | yes.. making scales.. heh |
| 08:14.02 | _Manu_ | we say.. in the blind men land. .one man with one eye is the king.. heh.. |
| 08:14.12 | _Manu_ | direct translated from spanish.. perhaps no sense to you |
| 08:14.26 | cosmos | hell we do it in america within the same ethnic backgrounds, urban vs rural etc |
| 08:15.03 | _Manu_ | not only you.. in every culture.. |
| 08:16.53 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dkb88.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 08:16.58 | cosmos | yeah |
| 08:17.20 | cosmos | czesc newbie_dont |
| 08:21.56 | uso | playing and watching f1 is not a good idea :) |
| 08:22.22 | _Manu_ | :) |
| 08:23.10 | _Manu_ | the spanish.. Fernando Alonso got the Pole Position :) |
| 08:23.15 | uso | cosmos: superflag guys are reclaiming :) |
| 08:23.32 | cosmos | ? |
| 08:23.32 | uso | had you killed the tk or was he gone itself? |
| 08:23.42 | cosmos | oh he left quickly |
| 08:26.11 | uso | cosmos: if i'm playing i'm cram ... to not confuse you :) |
| 08:26.20 | cosmos | yeah i figured |
| 08:26.27 | cosmos | since you were talking about things here in irc |
| 08:26.52 | uso | i forgot that on game |
| 08:27.14 | uso | i'm anyway bad in talking and playinmg together |
| 08:27.55 | _Manu_ | uso, aren't you multitasking? ;-p |
| 08:27.57 | newbie_dont | cosmos, witam |
| 08:28.11 | uso | _Manu_: i'm a man ;) |
| 08:28.20 | cosmos | newbie: i speak one word of polish (well one or two) ;) |
| 08:28.24 | uso | woman are good in multitasking |
| 08:28.35 | newbie_dont | newbie_dont, ah i see :) |
| 08:28.36 | uso | *women |
| 08:28.44 | newbie_dont | cosmos, i see :) |
| 08:29.12 | _Manu_ | better brain.. heh |
| 08:29.34 | uso | prolly yes, better organized |
| 08:29.51 | uso | and better trained over centuries |
| 08:33.41 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:33.51 | cosmos | hey there birdie |
| 08:34.04 | Birdie | good morning cosmos |
| 08:34.13 | Birdie | night for you:) |
| 08:34.23 | cosmos | its morning, 12:30am |
| 08:35.05 | Birdie | oh |
| 08:35.19 | Birdie | only 2hours difference with europe |
| 08:37.09 | uso | 2 hours? more like 10 |
| 08:37.46 | uso | it's 10:30 here |
| 08:37.59 | uso | in europe |
| 08:38.07 | cosmos | yeah |
| 08:38.18 | cosmos | id like to see where in europe its 2 hours different than pacific standard time |
| 08:38.27 | uso | cosmos: west coast? |
| 08:38.35 | cosmos | yes |
| 08:38.35 | cosmos | los angeles |
| 08:39.05 | uso | that is PST isn't it? |
| 08:39.14 | cosmos | yep |
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| 09:03.33 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9EA6939.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:13.20 | ToughShooter | How do I get the half of a pyramid? I tried creating it with a tetra but failed somehow. I've read the man page and so on but can't construct it. This is what I done so far: http://pastebin.com/266427 |
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| 10:43.39 | uso | hehe, nice game on viper, reds bring their flag to blue, blue brings red flag back to red, ... |
| 10:45.32 | uso | ToughShooter: half of a pyramid? do you mean a pyramid without the spire? |
| 10:46.07 | ToughShooter | uso: It comes clear in the sample |
| 10:50.03 | uso | seems to give a skew pyramid |
| 10:53.14 | uso | do you want the last vertex be 550 550 60? |
| 10:53.54 | ToughShooter | I want to place the half of a pyramid at the edge of a map to make it impossible to get stuck there |
| 10:54.17 | _Manu_ | uso, banned full range of troublemakers :( |
| 10:54.27 | uso | lol _Manu_ |
| 10:54.39 | ToughShooter | So I am trying to replace a pyramid with "position 550.0 550.0 30.0" |
| 10:55.46 | ToughShooter | and "size 55.0 55.0 30.0" |
| 10:57.43 | ToughShooter | uso: My intention is to have a skew surface at top, that is fine in my try but the low surface shouldn't be skew |
| 11:00.07 | uso | prolly dont understand what you want exactly, but try to replace first vertex with 605 605 30 |
| 11:08.03 | *** part/#bzflag WolverineJrDUB (~Wolverine@d81-211-179-188.cust.tele2.it) |
| 11:16.39 | ToughShooter | Not quite the thing I wanted. Best you look at my map and it will become more clear I hope. http://resfork.sourceforge.net/temp/ |
| 11:40.28 | uso | ToughShooter: you prolly can do this with one mesh, but i dont know how |
| 11:40.38 | uso | second best variant: use 2 tetras |
| 11:41.08 | uso | 495.0 495.0 30.0 / 495.0 605.0 30.0 / 605.0 605.0 30.0 / 605.0 605.0 60.0 |
| 11:41.31 | uso | 495.0 495.0 30.0 / 605.0 495.0 30.0 / 605.0 605.0 30.0 / 605.0 605.0 60.0 |
| 11:41.47 | uso | should give what you want |
| 11:42.22 | uso | sorry for the delay, had to watch F1 start :) |
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| 11:54.16 | ToughShooter | Heh, I was also watching... |
| 12:03.45 | ToughShooter | Works perfect so far. I'm wondering if this can be achieved with only one tetra. |
| 12:03.51 | ToughShooter | ~uso++ |
| 12:05.27 | uso | no :) |
| 12:05.37 | *** join/#bzflag bz8352 (~d254e7a6@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:05.46 | uso | tetra = 4 and you need 5 points |
| 12:08.00 | uso | but it surely can be done with one mesh object, maybe one of the real gurus here can help :) |
| 12:09.04 | uso | is there anywhere a good description of this new map objects? |
| 12:13.27 | Pimpinella | uso, ToughShooter: i used blender to construct even simple meshes, exported them to .obj and transformed them to bzw with modeltool |
| 12:14.47 | Pimpinella | for me it's faster than modeling them manuallyin a text editor |
| 12:15.20 | Pimpinella | uso: new map objects? |
| 12:16.38 | uso | all the new stuff in maps came with 2.0 like the tetras, groups, ... |
| 12:17.45 | Pimpinella | ToughShooter: though i still didn't get what you're trying to do |
| 12:18.36 | Pimpinella | i can give you 2Castles as an example for using groups |
| 12:20.27 | Pimpinella | uso: the manpage explains it all, look below the exampled at the definitions |
| 12:20.43 | Pimpinella | maybe i have some more examples for u |
| 12:22.52 | Pimpinella | http://balin.pimpi.org/newviper.bzw |
| 12:25.43 | Pimpinella | http://balin.pimpi.org/tanks.bzw |
| 12:26.23 | ToughShooter | Is there a Mac OS X version of modeltool? |
| 12:26.47 | Pimpinella | it should build fine on osx |
| 12:27.58 | Death_Barrel | any of you guys frineds with any freenode admins? i need to kick all on #bztrivia |
| 12:28.44 | uso | argh, i was on manpages of 1.10 :( |
| 12:29.40 | uso | Pimpinella: but there isn't a script converting .bzw to .obj, is it? |
| 12:30.31 | Pimpinella | no |
| 12:30.54 | Pimpinella | obj doesn't support all features of bzw |
| 12:31.03 | ToughShooter | http://pastebin.com/266463 |
| 12:31.08 | uso | i already have had a look at some maps, but i missed the basics |
| 12:31.20 | uso | but the bzw manpage is good |
| 12:33.30 | ToughShooter | modeltool doesn't compile for me |
| 12:33.46 | Pimpinella | lemme c here |
| 12:34.42 | ToughShooter | Pimpinella: I've pastebined :-) it |
| 12:35.49 | Pimpinella | saw it, i get the warnings about switch too, it builds though |
| 12:36.47 | ToughShooter | Also I found this: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2881&highlight=& |
| 12:39.04 | Pimpinella | were they talking about anim8or or modeltool? |
| 12:39.55 | *** join/#bzflag newbie__dont (~janko@dkh210.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:40.30 | ToughShooter | No idea... |
| 12:41.45 | ToughShooter | but at least anim8or doesn't run on Macs for sure |
| 12:45.40 | Pimpinella | hm, i had a really good example map for physics by trepan, but seems i deleted it |
| 12:52.03 | ToughShooter | Are there other conversion tools that would work on Mac OS X version 10.3.8? |
| 13:32.33 | *** join/#bzflag sommertimer3 (2d1Gdqzq@pool-70-107-37-234.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:04.39 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~DeathBarr@adsl-70-240-102-172.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 14:08.44 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-043-109.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:08.49 | *** join/#bzflag PointBlank (~PointBlan@ip24-251-241-81.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 14:51.26 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 15:00.13 | orchid | !weather cyyz |
| 15:00.20 | guu | orchid: The current temperature in Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario is 33°F. Conditions: Ice Pellets. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 33°F. Wind: NNW at 31 mph (50 km/h). Pressure: 29.34 in (993 hPa). Visibility: 5.0 miles (8.0 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 16 |
| 15:02.11 | brlcad | ice pellets |
| 15:02.13 | brlcad | hmm |
| 15:02.23 | brlcad | projectile fun |
| 15:11.57 | brlcad | ~translate de en Geistert |
| 15:12.11 | ruskie | ZetaOS? |
| 15:12.25 | brlcad | a successor to BeOS |
| 15:12.30 | ruskie | ahhh |
| 15:12.33 | ruskie | sounds nice... |
| 15:13.00 | orchid | I think mmu_man uses it |
| 15:13.01 | brlcad | if the rumors are correct, this german company got the rights to use the unreleased 5.1 source code |
| 15:13.23 | brlcad | and they've been working on updating it to current hardware, new optimizations, etc |
| 15:13.40 | ruskie | nice |
| 15:13.41 | brlcad | zeta "final" hasn't been released yet, they're still beta builds |
| 15:13.52 | brlcad | starts shipping this month |
| 15:13.56 | ruskie | how about freebe or what's the thing or was it openbe? |
| 15:14.20 | brlcad | they're still around, but they were never actually BeOS |
| 15:14.38 | brlcad | they just mimicked the Be API, look and feel, etc |
| 15:14.43 | orchid | http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=223&slide=1 |
| 15:14.46 | brlcad | most used a linux kernet |
| 15:14.50 | brlcad | http://www.yellowtab.com/ |
| 15:15.09 | ruskie | <-- is waiting for reactos |
| 15:15.13 | ToughShooter | brlcad: geistert means ghosting around |
| 15:15.54 | brlcad | I was wondering how long it was going to take to get the /. posting.. I noticed that they announced 1.0 coming this month two weeks ago |
| 15:16.02 | brlcad | ToughShooter: thx |
| 15:31.04 | ToughShooter | brlcad: Does modeltool compile for you? |
| 15:33.26 | brlcad | not the last time I checked, it has a static var problem that needs a fixing for ppc |
| 15:36.34 | *** join/#bzflag DeathBarrel (~DeathBarr@adsl-70-240-102-172.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 15:40.59 | *** join/#bzflag Argunus_Ru (~lazywhoop@toronto-HSE-ppp4264567.sympatico.ca) |
| 15:44.00 | *** join/#bzflag Linuz_user (~wili@ppp-216-106-108-116.storm.ca) |
| 15:44.08 | Linuz_user | can someone help me? |
| 15:44.14 | ruskie | depends |
| 15:44.36 | Linuz_user | i just added a new map to my bzfs.conf file, and now when ever I go toplay on my LAN it says "Player has been banned" |
| 15:44.42 | Linuz_user | nso how do I get it to work? |
| 15:45.34 | Linuz_user | cause I can't play, and that sucks |
| 15:45.53 | Linuz_user | ruskie: and ideas |
| 15:46.13 | blast007 | did you ban yourself in the .conf file? or are you using a banfile that includes your IP? |
| 15:46.18 | Linuz_user | nno |
| 15:46.26 | Linuz_user | I'm connecting on 127.0.0.1 |
| 15:46.39 | Linuz_user | don't have a ban file anyway |
| 15:46.56 | blast007 | hmm |
| 15:47.30 | Pimpinella | thats interesting |
| 15:47.40 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:47.52 | blast007 | does the map file contain an options block with a ban on 127.0.0.1? |
| 15:48.03 | Linuz_user | no |
| 15:48.08 | Linuz_user | i made the map, and it doesn't |
| 15:48.17 | blast007 | well that's odd... |
| 15:48.40 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:48.45 | Linuz_user | nusing a diff calsign too |
| 15:49.06 | Linuz_user | sry for the ns, its a habbit |
| 15:49.11 | blast007 | ~n |
| 15:49.12 | ibot | i heard n is the disease bzflag players get when they play too much |
| 15:49.19 | blast007 | ;) |
| 15:49.24 | Linuz_user | well then I got it |
| 15:49.26 | Linuz_user | neheheh |
| 15:49.31 | Linuz_user | ndoh! |
| 15:49.36 | ruskie | why n? |
| 15:49.39 | Linuz_user | grr |
| 15:49.46 | Linuz_user | ncause n is what you press to talk |
| 15:49.50 | Linuz_user | DOH! |
| 15:50.07 | ruskie | lol |
| 15:50.11 | ruskie | :)) |
| 15:50.20 | Linuz_user | so can anyone help me? |
| 15:50.21 | ruskie | not realyl a prob here |
| 15:50.41 | Linuz_user | nmust not play a lot |
| 15:50.42 | ruskie | even though I talk a lot... I'm used to switching irc/bzflag chat all the time |
| 15:50.43 | Linuz_user | neheheh |
| 15:50.47 | Linuz_user | oh I see |
| 15:50.51 | ruskie | I do play a lot |
| 15:50.58 | Linuz_user | not a problem for you I guess |
| 15:51.11 | blast007 | Linuz_user: I'm not really sure what else could be going on...seems odd that every IP you've tried says it's banned |
| 15:51.21 | Linuz_user | it blows |
| 15:51.30 | Linuz_user | my config file has so much I don't want to lose |
| 15:51.38 | Linuz_user | yea |
| 15:51.49 | Linuz_user | and all I did was add a map to -world |
| 15:51.59 | blast007 | hmm |
| 15:52.21 | Linuz_user | I #ed it out to try to trouble shoot |
| 15:52.43 | Linuz_user | here, want me to plstebin my conf file? |
| 15:52.46 | Linuz_user | that might be easier |
| 15:52.53 | Linuz_user | paste* |
| 15:52.56 | blast007 | or pastebin the world file |
| 15:53.03 | Linuz_user | which one? |
| 15:53.14 | blast007 | try the conf first |
| 15:53.19 | Linuz_user | ok |
| 15:53.21 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/linux/bzfs/maps/wewe_world_v2.0.bzw" |
| 15:53.21 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/linux/bzfs/maps/wewe_world_2T.bzw" |
| 15:53.21 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/linux/bzfs/maps/diff_hepcat.bzw" |
| 15:53.21 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/linux/bzfs/maps/ctfoverlord.bzw" |
| 15:53.21 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/linux/bzfs/maps/Map.bzw" |
| 15:53.22 | Linuz_user | #-world "/mnt/old_home/linux/bzfs/maps/Army_of_one's_map.bzw" |
| 15:53.24 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/wili/.bzf/worlds/river_of_death.bzw" |
| 15:53.26 | Linuz_user | #-world "/mnt/old_home/linux/bzfs/maps/wewe_world_texture.bzw" |
| 15:53.28 | Linuz_user | #-world "/mnt/old_home/linux/bzfs/maps/bridges.bzw" |
| 15:53.34 | Linuz_user | -world "/home/wili/.bzf/worlds/wewe_world_texture.bzw" |
| 15:53.36 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/wili/.bzf/worlds/sniper_ctf.bzw" |
| 15:53.38 | Linuz_user | #-world "/home/wili/.bzf/worlds/island_hopping.bzw" |
| 15:53.40 | Linuz_user | #-world "/mnt/old_home/linux/bzflag/misc/fountains.bzw" |
| 15:53.42 | Linuz_user | I have all of those |
| 15:53.44 | Linuz_user | BTW I'm Ice Wewe |
| 15:53.46 | Linuz_user | fountains started the problem |
| 15:53.48 | Linuz_user | thats jsut cause I edited it |
| 15:53.54 | Linuz_user | and I suck at editing |
| 15:54.01 | Linuz_user | ok I'll paste bin it |
| 15:55.13 | Linuz_user | http://pastebin.ca/8721 |
| 15:55.15 | Linuz_user | there it is |
| 15:55.25 | blast007 | k |
| 15:57.08 | Birdie | nidhoggr ping |
| 15:57.48 | blast007 | hmm, I don't see anything in the conf file that would be an issue |
| 15:58.03 | blast007 | want to pastebin the world file? |
| 15:58.22 | Linuz_user | which one? |
| 15:58.36 | blast007 | the one causing the "You are banned" issue ;) |
| 15:58.43 | Linuz_user | nsure |
| 15:59.24 | Linuz_user | http://pastebin.ca/8723 |
| 15:59.27 | Nidhoggr | birdie? |
| 16:00.51 | blast007 | Linuz_user: and I don't see anything unusual in there either...strange |
| 16:01.12 | Linuz_user | blast007: yea |
| 16:01.30 | Linuz_user | brb |
| 16:01.56 | Linuz_user | "Player has been banned" |
| 16:02.35 | Linuz_user | bzadmin |
| 16:02.35 | Linuz_user | No callsign@host specified. Please input them |
| 16:02.35 | Linuz_user | Callsign: Ice Wewe |
| 16:02.36 | Linuz_user | Password (optional): |
| 16:02.36 | Linuz_user | Not using central login |
| 16:02.36 | Linuz_user | Server[:port] to connect to: 127.0.0.1:5154 |
| 16:02.38 | Linuz_user | Connecting to Ice Wewe@127.0.0.1:5154 |
| 16:02.40 | Linuz_user | Player has been banned |
| 16:02.47 | bzflagwiz | Linuz_user - can you connect to public servers? |
| 16:03.01 | bzflagwiz | Good morning Nidhoggr |
| 16:03.17 | Nidhoggr | hi |
| 16:03.25 | Nidhoggr | just about to go to breakfast. |
| 16:03.26 | Linuz_user | yes |
| 16:03.30 | bzflagwiz | Birdie must have flown away :) |
| 16:03.40 | orchid | :) |
| 16:04.15 | Birdie | birdie is still here dont worry;) |
| 16:04.29 | Linuz_user | yes, I can still connect to public servers |
| 16:04.29 | bzflagwiz | :) |
| 16:04.48 | Linuz_user | *kicks bzfs* |
| 16:05.14 | Linuz_user | oh wait |
| 16:06.00 | Linuz_user | darn |
| 16:06.11 | ruskie | you goofed up? |
| 16:06.16 | Linuz_user | no |
| 16:06.24 | Linuz_user | it still wont work |
| 16:06.35 | Linuz_user | aybeI should recompile |
| 16:06.39 | Linuz_user | maybe* |
| 16:06.44 | Nidhoggr | chat with ya'll later. off to breakfast and botanical garden. |
| 16:06.49 | Linuz_user | cool |
| 16:06.49 | bzflagwiz | cya Nid |
| 16:07.26 | Linuz_user | blast007: any idea |
| 16:07.31 | blast007 | if you just run 'bzfs' with no config, can you connect to localhost:5154 ? |
| 16:07.39 | Linuz_user | anyone have any clue why this is happening? |
| 16:07.46 | jpa- | what is happening? |
| 16:08.08 | blast007 | says he banned from his own server, even though his config doesn't have any bans set up |
| 16:08.14 | Linuz_user | "Player has been banned" |
| 16:08.22 | bzflagwiz | Linuz_user - can you start a server from within BZFlag using the start server menu and then connect to it? |
| 16:08.25 | Linuz_user | neven when not using a conf file |
| 16:08.35 | Linuz_user | not using windows |
| 16:08.43 | Linuz_user | oh |
| 16:08.44 | Linuz_user | wait |
| 16:09.03 | Linuz_user | "Player has been banned" |
| 16:09.15 | brlcad | is this a public server? |
| 16:09.20 | Linuz_user | no |
| 16:09.29 | blast007 | try running 'bzfs -p 6000' and connecting to localhost:6000 |
| 16:09.46 | blast007 | I'm wondering if an existing server is running on 5154 ;) |
| 16:09.47 | Linuz_user | bzflagwizERROR: Unable to start the server, perhaps one is already running? |
| 16:09.52 | Linuz_user | oops |
| 16:09.57 | brlcad | Linuz_user: how sure of that are you? |
| 16:10.00 | jpa- | xD |
| 16:10.08 | brlcad | add -d -d -d |
| 16:10.13 | jpa- | ~blast007++ |
| 16:10.23 | blast007 | :) |
| 16:10.27 | Linuz_user | style: 0 |
| 16:10.27 | Linuz_user | There is a voting arbiter with the following settings: |
| 16:10.27 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.27 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.27 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.27 | jpa- | Linuz_user: type killall bzfs |
| 16:10.28 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.34 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.36 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.38 | Linuz_user | Running a private server with the following settings: |
| 16:10.40 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.42 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.42 | blast007 | :/ |
| 16:10.44 | Linuz_user | ColDet Octree obstacles = 28 |
| 16:10.46 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.48 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.50 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.52 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.53 | brlcad | Linuz_user: don't paste that in here |
| 16:10.54 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.56 | Linuz_user | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:10.58 | Linuz_user | ColDet Octree leaf nodes = 21 |
| 16:11.00 | Linuz_user | ColDet Octree total nodes = 28 |
| 16:11.04 | Linuz_user | ColDet Octree total elements = 48 |
| 16:11.05 | jpa- | brlcad: too late |
| 16:11.06 | Linuz_user | Collision Octree processed in 0.031 seconds. |
| 16:11.08 | Linuz_user | Map size: uncompressed = 996, compressed = 496 |
| 16:11.10 | Linuz_user | Compression: 0.001 seconds |
| 16:11.12 | Linuz_user | MD5 generation: 0.000 seconds |
| 16:11.14 | Linuz_user | sorry for that |
| 16:11.15 | brlcad | if it's more than 5 lines, use a website or pastebin |
| 16:11.16 | Linuz_user | thats the -ddd output |
| 16:11.18 | Linuz_user | sry |
| 16:11.29 | Linuz_user | oh |
| 16:11.34 | Linuz_user | i know what I did wrong |
| 16:11.36 | Linuz_user | brb |
| 16:12.09 | bzflagwiz | listening on 0.0.0.0 .... perhaps we're on to something... |
| 16:12.18 | Linuz_user | bah |
| 16:12.19 | blast007 | that's right |
| 16:12.20 | Linuz_user | no use |
| 16:12.25 | Linuz_user | whats wrong with that? |
| 16:12.43 | blast007 | nothing is wrong with that ;) |
| 16:12.44 | jpa- | Linuz_user: so, no conf file? what commandline are you using to start it? |
| 16:12.47 | brlcad | bzflagwiz: no, that's fine |
| 16:13.04 | Linuz_user | bzfs -conf /mnt/old_home/linux/bzflag/misc/bzfs.cong |
| 16:13.07 | brlcad | amazing how many people that confuses.. maybe should make that the public ip ;) |
| 16:13.09 | blast007 | he was using this conf file: http://pastebin.ca/8721 |
| 16:13.20 | Linuz_user | nconf* |
| 16:13.25 | Linuz_user | doh, that n again |
| 16:14.00 | bzflagwiz | :) |
| 16:14.12 | Linuz_user | jpa: I have a conf file |
| 16:14.24 | Linuz_user | jpa: it was a very good one too |
| 16:14.39 | jpa- | Linuz_user: so, does it have -ban 0.0.0.0 in it? |
| 16:14.58 | Linuz_user | no |
| 16:15.11 | blast007 | doesn't have any -ban or -banfile set |
| 16:15.20 | Linuz_user | #-ban "192.168.1.5,10.10.2.*,10.2.*.*" |
| 16:15.21 | Linuz_user | nno |
| 16:15.55 | jpa- | so, try without conf? |
| 16:15.55 | brlcad | that looks like one of the bzfs_conf.html conf's |
| 16:16.04 | jpa- | just bzfs without anything |
| 16:16.04 | brlcad | there's a bad line that gets output in that |
| 16:16.13 | Linuz_user | I've never used the html version |
| 16:16.24 | Linuz_user | bad line? where? |
| 16:16.47 | blast007 | there isn't that line in the file |
| 16:16.51 | brlcad | try running bzfs -cr -d -d -d -j |
| 16:17.01 | brlcad | see if you can connect |
| 16:17.34 | Linuz_user | "Player has been banned" |
| 16:17.55 | brlcad | hmm |
| 16:18.03 | brlcad | how are you trying to connect? |
| 16:18.11 | brlcad | using what address? |
| 16:18.19 | jpa- | what does bzfs --version tell? |
| 16:18.29 | jpa- | i mean.. |
| 16:18.40 | jpa- | bzfs -version |
| 16:19.00 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] sent version string: 2.0.3.20050318-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 16:19.00 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] has joined from 127.0.0.1 at 2005-04-03 12:11:33 with token "183511035" |
| 16:19.00 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] removed at 2005-04-03 12:11:33: left |
| 16:19.04 | Linuz_user | does that help things? |
| 16:19.25 | Linuz_user | BZFlag server 2.0.3.20050318-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 16:19.27 | brlcad | remove the password |
| 16:20.19 | jpa- | whoah, that token number is almost just like my password :P |
| 16:20.27 | jpa- | three numbers different |
| 16:20.41 | brlcad | 18351835 :) |
| 16:20.48 | jpa- | (ooopps, should i have told that? :) |
| 16:21.00 | Linuz_user | wait |
| 16:21.05 | Linuz_user | waht does the token mean? |
| 16:21.12 | Linuz_user | can you figure out my password from it? |
| 16:21.16 | brlcad | no |
| 16:21.16 | Linuz_user | uh oh |
| 16:21.20 | Linuz_user | phew |
| 16:21.20 | jpa- | it is used for global authentication |
| 16:21.23 | brlcad | but remove your password and try again |
| 16:21.23 | Linuz_user | oh ok |
| 16:21.57 | Linuz_user | "Player has been banned" |
| 16:22.12 | brlcad | same "with token" message? |
| 16:22.17 | jpa- | it is like, client sends list server its password -> list server sends a token that can be used once -> client gives token to server -> server asks the list server if the token is valid |
| 16:22.43 | Linuz_user | opps |
| 16:22.43 | Linuz_user | wait |
| 16:22.52 | ToughShooter | Perhaps his IP is in masterban |
| 16:23.09 | Linuz_user | why? |
| 16:23.13 | bzflagwiz | it's not, assuming the ip he connected here with is his "gaming" ip |
| 16:23.16 | Linuz_user | i can connect to public servers too you know |
| 16:23.23 | ToughShooter | Hmm |
| 16:23.24 | bzflagwiz | it is 216.something... |
| 16:23.33 | bzflagwiz | and that isn't in masterban |
| 16:23.40 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] sent version string: 2.0.3.20050318-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 16:23.41 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] has joined from 127.0.0.1 at 2005-04-03 12:17:37 with token "" |
| 16:23.41 | Linuz_user | Player Ice Wewe [0] remov |
| 16:23.44 | blast007 | also, he's connecting from 127.0.0.1, so that shouldn't be masterbanned |
| 16:23.47 | jpa- | but, he is connecting from 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:23.48 | brlcad | okay, that's better |
| 16:23.55 | Linuz_user | sorry, it got cut off |
| 16:24.03 | Linuz_user | ed at 2005-04-03 12:17:38: left |
| 16:24.46 | brlcad | Linuz_user: try bzadmin |
| 16:24.49 | Linuz_user | perhaps I should try this map on my laptop |
| 16:24.52 | Linuz_user | tried |
| 16:24.58 | Linuz_user | same thing happens |
| 16:25.01 | brlcad | same result? |
| 16:25.03 | brlcad | k |
| 16:25.04 | Linuz_user | yes |
| 16:25.14 | brlcad | you are connecting to 127.0.0.1 for the server name, yes? |
| 16:25.20 | Linuz_user | hunh? |
| 16:25.28 | Linuz_user | i am connecting to 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:25.41 | Linuz_user | no, thats where my servers funning |
| 16:25.46 | Linuz_user | you've lost me |
| 16:25.50 | brlcad | what's the server name you use? |
| 16:25.59 | brlcad | in the server field on the join menu |
| 16:26.04 | Linuz_user | its my computer, this one |
| 16:26.07 | brlcad | no |
| 16:26.07 | Linuz_user | blazingstar |
| 16:26.10 | brlcad | on the menu |
| 16:26.15 | brlcad | what is typed in there |
| 16:26.22 | Linuz_user | blazingstar.hoomaha.net |
| 16:26.26 | Linuz_user | 5154 |
| 16:26.29 | brlcad | put 127.0.0.1 instead |
| 16:26.34 | Linuz_user | i have been |
| 16:26.52 | brlcad | then that wouldn't be what's typed in there, now would it? ;) |
| 16:26.58 | brlcad | bah |
| 16:27.26 | DeathBarrel | lol |
| 16:27.41 | *** join/#bzflag Linuz_user (~wili@ppp-216-106-108-116.storm.ca) |
| 16:27.47 | DeathBarrel | brlcad, you send me that email ? |
| 16:27.48 | Linuz_user | crud, sry |
| 16:27.58 | Linuz_user | closed that terminal cause ti went wacko |
| 16:28.35 | ToughShooter | Can other people join to your server? |
| 16:28.38 | brlcad | Linuz_user: on the server join menu, does it say blazingstar.hoomaha.net or 127.0.0.1? |
| 16:28.47 | Linuz_user | first one |
| 16:28.53 | brlcad | that's no good |
| 16:28.55 | Linuz_user | toughshooter: no |
| 16:28.57 | brlcad | put 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:29.02 | Linuz_user | it wont matter |
| 16:29.06 | Linuz_user | it doesn't work anyway |
| 16:29.08 | brlcad | humor me |
| 16:29.18 | Linuz_user | even if I start a server in the client, it says the same thing |
| 16:29.26 | Linuz_user | must I? |
| 16:30.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:30.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 16:30.46 | Linuz_user | hmmmmm |
| 16:30.53 | Linuz_user | i hate it when others are right |
| 16:30.58 | Linuz_user | :| |
| 16:31.09 | Linuz_user | so why wont it let e in on 127.0.0.1? |
| 16:31.31 | Linuz_user | it let me in on blazingstar.hoomaha.net |
| 16:31.35 | Linuz_user | but not 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:31.53 | brlcad | huh? |
| 16:32.40 | brlcad | i assume you meant the reverse of that? |
| 16:32.48 | Linuz_user | no |
| 16:32.56 | blast007 | is this server running on the same computer you are running the client on? |
| 16:33.02 | Linuz_user | it lets me connect at blazingstar.hoomaha.net, but NOT 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:33.06 | Linuz_user | yes |
| 16:33.11 | blast007 | :/ |
| 16:33.38 | Linuz_user | wierd, 127.0.0.1 used to work |
| 16:33.39 | Linuz_user | brb |
| 16:33.40 | brlcad | you said you were trying blazingstar and it wasn't working |
| 16:33.44 | DeathBarrel | try localhost |
| 16:33.56 | brlcad | are you talking about the server or the client? |
| 16:35.35 | Linuz_user | ok |
| 16:35.39 | Linuz_user | client |
| 16:35.53 | Linuz_user | no, i said that was the servers technical name |
| 16:36.00 | Linuz_user | I was trying the IPand 127.0.0.1 |
| 16:36.08 | Linuz_user | but none were working, which is strange |
| 16:36.10 | Linuz_user | bbr |
| 16:36.12 | Linuz_user | brb |
| 16:36.14 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 16:36.18 | jpa- | hi SC |
| 16:38.26 | Linuz_user | death barrel,how'd you do that? |
| 16:38.46 | blast007 | /nick newname |
| 16:39.03 | Linuz_user | what the? |
| 16:39.19 | Linuz_user | it says my nick (Ice Wewe) is already in use |
| 16:39.27 | Linuz_user | what gives? |
| 16:39.33 | blast007 | can't do spaces |
| 16:39.39 | blast007 | so the name 'ice' is in use |
| 16:39.54 | blast007 | try Ice_Wewe |
| 16:39.56 | Ice_Were | ndoh! |
| 16:40.12 | Ice_Wewe | sweet |
| 16:40.17 | Ice_Wewe | Ice Were, lol |
| 16:41.35 | Ice_Wewe | brb, gotta go vacuum the car |
| 16:46.55 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart@cpe-67-10-210-195.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 16:47.10 | spldart | Morning all |
| 16:49.50 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad2901@ACD8F4F3.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:57.57 | *** part/#bzflag Ice_Wewe (~wili@ppp-216-106-108-116.storm.ca) |
| 17:00.34 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dkh210.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:00.38 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901_ (brad2901@ACD8F4F3.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:02.18 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901_ (brad2901@ACD8F4F3.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:03.46 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (~admin@ACCAA3E0.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:03.59 | orchid | spldart: did you make a movie yet? |
| 17:08.24 | ToughShooter | Is it possible to get meshes out of obj-files on the Mac? I mean without using an emulator... |
| 17:09.50 | JeffM2501 | you mean make obj files into bzw maps? |
| 17:10.15 | spldart | yes |
| 17:10.26 | JeffM2501 | model tool "should" compile on any OS |
| 17:10.33 | JeffM2501 | it is not winows specific |
| 17:12.22 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dkh210.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:12.53 | spldart | I made some a way I made up. Posted one on BZBB called timetrial tour |
| 17:13.07 | spldart | And then was told abot frap. |
| 17:13.19 | spldart | Found a registered version and was able to make nicer movies with it. |
| 17:13.36 | *** join/#bzflag LordSarpedon (~18a71319@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:14.12 | LordSarpedon | Greets |
| 17:14.49 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, any idea what this means? /usr/include/gcc/darwin/3.3/c++/ppc-darwin/bits/atomicity.h:65: error: `asm' |
| 17:14.49 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.32 | bzflagwiz | After you talked about making movies yesterday, I tried connecting the tvout of my all-in-wonder to the input of my all-in-wonder to record. |
| 17:16.06 | bzflagwiz | I think that method has some promise for making movies, if I pick a codec that doesn't give a 20+ MB file for 30 seconds :) |
| 17:16.12 | LordSarpedon | Compiling the darwin kernel? |
| 17:16.23 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 17:16.41 | LordSarpedon | Darwins that apple thing....what are you using it for |
| 17:16.41 | JeffM2501 | just modeltool |
| 17:17.06 | JeffM2501 | well since I am on a mac, everything :) |
| 17:17.22 | spldart | when i got the registered version of frap I encoded the files down to like 3 meg per 45 seconds |
| 17:17.43 | LordSarpedon | Heh...well darwin is the macos kernel. So you are compiling it? |
| 17:18.00 | JeffM2501 | again |
| 17:18.01 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 17:18.04 | bzflagwiz | I'll have to check out frap. It was kind of klunky setting up bz to play on tvout and then record it... |
| 17:18.06 | JeffM2501 | just model tool |
| 17:18.06 | spldart | I also used my favorite encoder virtualdub to cut the resolution in half to help that compression along |
| 17:18.19 | JeffM2501 | but all OSX apps will include headers |
| 17:18.25 | JeffM2501 | that include darwininan stuff :) |
| 17:18.27 | LordSarpedon | Oh, i see |
| 17:18.53 | bzflagwiz | spldart: which codec were you using to encode? I have about 30-40 on my system :) |
| 17:19.07 | spldart | My favorite for SMALL |
| 17:19.12 | spldart | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:19.25 | spldart | For high quality. Divx 5 or Xvid |
| 17:19.42 | bzflagwiz | hmmm - I've got divx5, have to see if I have 3.11 |
| 17:20.10 | spldart | If you get the resolution down to something practical like near VCD levels you can compress with 3.11 with the vid bandwidth set to 500 or maybe a tad less |
| 17:20.42 | bzflagwiz | what frame size are you capturing at? |
| 17:20.48 | spldart | That will give you a file practical on the bandwidth to share |
| 17:20.56 | spldart | I'm capturing at 800x600 |
| 17:21.01 | LordSarpedon | not the only one jeff http://www.bincimap.andreas.hanssen.name/archive/?0::1376 |
| 17:21.14 | spldart | Then cutting that in half with a HQ filter to get 400x300 before encoding |
| 17:21.28 | *** join/#bzflag bz5557 (~42eb1e10@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:21.33 | spldart | wich is a bit above vcd which is 352x240 |
| 17:22.27 | bzflagwiz | I'll give that a shot. Although I only tried it because I saw the discussion on it yesterday :) |
| 17:22.28 | JeffM2501 | we've had the problem before, something with order of header includes IIRC, brlcad solved it last time hence why I ask him :) |
| 17:22.28 | spldart | btw. I'm calling it bandwidth but it's actually codec video data rate |
| 17:23.10 | LordSarpedon | ah |
| 17:23.22 | spldart | It worked well. But the demo version is crippled |
| 17:23.33 | spldart | I had to get the full in order to do what I wanted to get done |
| 17:23.39 | bzflagwiz | ah - I understand ;) |
| 17:23.42 | JeffM2501 | I guess I could try x code |
| 17:23.54 | bzflagwiz | oops - kids are fighting, gotta run |
| 17:24.00 | spldart | hehe |
| 17:24.25 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo_ (~jarednea@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 17:25.20 | LordSarpedon | Stupid teleporters |
| 17:25.36 | LordSarpedon | Never figured out how to get those working for my netfilter |
| 17:26.21 | JeffM2501 | as soon as they go thru one, send a update to who is near the desiination |
| 17:26.29 | JeffM2501 | you know when they are near one |
| 17:26.35 | JeffM2501 | cus we display the IDL |
| 17:27.02 | LordSarpedon | What I mean is I need to enumerate the teleporter links, but from a link determine the teleporter |
| 17:27.26 | JeffM2501 | all the info is there |
| 17:27.34 | LordSarpedon | the link give a src number and one or more dsts, but I have yet to determine how I can use that to get a teleporter obstacle pointer |
| 17:28.00 | JeffM2501 | may be client side random |
| 17:28.28 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user) |
| 17:28.52 | LordSarpedon | i know the id->teleporter conversion has to be in the code somewhere, but haven't found it yet |
| 17:29.14 | *** join/#bzflag Linuz_user (~wili@ppp-216-106-108-116.storm.ca) |
| 17:29.25 | LordSarpedon | ive seen the setteleport on the player class, but where does it actually send the teleport? |
| 17:29.29 | Ice_Wewe | does anyone know how I can make bots smarter? |
| 17:29.55 | Ice_Wewe | like they pick up flags, and jump, and are generally smarter |
| 17:30.06 | LordSarpedon | Ice_Were, you'd have to edit that in source |
| 17:30.14 | Ice_Wewe | how? |
| 17:30.15 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, code it in |
| 17:30.24 | LordSarpedon | Look in the client source playing.cxx |
| 17:30.25 | Ice_Wewe | how? |
| 17:30.28 | JeffM2501 | you would have to implement smarter logic code |
| 17:30.38 | Ice_Wewe | so I would have to write code? |
| 17:30.39 | JeffM2501 | do you know how to program? |
| 17:30.41 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 17:30.41 | Ice_Wewe | no |
| 17:30.45 | Ice_Wewe | not at all |
| 17:30.51 | LordSarpedon | There is a function that creates the bots. Then you can see what class it is using |
| 17:30.52 | JeffM2501 | they are as smart as they are coded to be |
| 17:31.00 | Ice_Wewe | which i dumb |
| 17:31.00 | JeffM2501 | there isn't just a "smartness" setting |
| 17:31.02 | Ice_Wewe | i presume |
| 17:31.05 | Ice_Wewe | darn |
| 17:31.12 | JeffM2501 | they arn't dumb |
| 17:31.12 | Ice_Wewe | well perhaps in the next version? |
| 17:31.15 | Ice_Wewe | yea they are |
| 17:31.17 | JeffM2501 | the code just isn't complex |
| 17:31.30 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, that depends on if somone makes smarter code for them |
| 17:31.45 | Ice_Wewe | couldyou include a smartness choice in the next version? |
| 17:31.47 | LordSarpedon | JeffM2501, it would be nice to have the bot code nicely packaged in an ai class that perhaps can interpret python perl etc |
| 17:31.55 | JeffM2501 | Ice_Wewe, I don't think you get it |
| 17:32.01 | Ice_Wewe | darn |
| 17:32.04 | JeffM2501 | there is no code for smarter behavor |
| 17:32.13 | JeffM2501 | somone would have to come up with HOW to make them smarter |
| 17:32.15 | Ice_Wewe | how hard is it to wirte code for them> |
| 17:32.15 | JeffM2501 | and code it in |
| 17:32.23 | Ice_Wewe | oh |
| 17:32.24 | Ice_Wewe | i see |
| 17:32.25 | JeffM2501 | AI code is not simple |
| 17:32.28 | Ice_Wewe | well |
| 17:32.29 | Ice_Wewe | ok |
| 17:32.30 | Ice_Wewe | bye |
| 17:32.45 | LordSarpedon | Think of it this way: You cant adjust a chicken to be smart without giving it a new brain. A brain being wildly complex in a way that no coder seems to want to rework right now |
| 17:32.52 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, lots of things would be nice |
| 17:32.57 | JeffM2501 | but I don't see them happening |
| 17:33.13 | JeffM2501 | the graphics engine should be seperate |
| 17:33.20 | JeffM2501 | sound sould be seperate |
| 17:33.22 | JeffM2501 | etc.... |
| 17:33.46 | LordSarpedon | JeffM2501, i find it strange that bzf didnt gain a ton of coders after it was featured on slashdot |
| 17:34.14 | LordSarpedon | what was it, second game on sourceforge to reach a million downloads? |
| 17:39.53 | Mr_Molez | third |
| 17:39.55 | Mr_Molez | aint it |
| 17:46.49 | JeffM2501 | it looks to old an hokey |
| 17:46.59 | JeffM2501 | it was mostly bashed on /. |
| 17:49.43 | orchid | but what isnt? |
| 17:49.52 | JeffM2501 | many things are |
| 17:50.03 | JeffM2501 | but they still had valid points |
| 17:50.17 | JeffM2501 | from an 'outside' users perspective |
| 17:58.26 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:892a:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 17:58.54 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c122-p226.vtx.ch) |
| 18:28.48 | spldart | Any known issues with BZADMIN becoming unresponsive and even closing abruptly with no error message? I've only tried both addressing my server from the spldart.digi and the local lan ip. I works for between 20 minutes to a few hours and then just stops. |
| 18:30.25 | Pimpinella | it crashes with a segfault every once in a while here |
| 18:32.05 | spldart | On mine it just goes quiet and if I type a command like /playerlist or something else it will just close abruptly. Didn't know if their were any known issues with it and windows |
| 18:34.08 | jpa- | it closes by itself and stops functioning sometimes |
| 18:34.53 | spldart | IC |
| 18:35.38 | spldart | I guess I should run it from a command prompt one of these days and see if it is leaving some message before dying |
| 18:49.53 | jpa- | ~bzflist |
| 18:50.38 | ToughShooter | I wonder why most players are not from europe :( |
| 18:51.09 | jpa- | hm |
| 18:51.16 | jpa- | why should they be? |
| 18:51.29 | ToughShooter | Why not :-o |
| 18:51.57 | ToughShooter | These time zones make me so alone |
| 18:52.05 | jpa- | ? |
| 18:52.13 | jpa- | plenty of people on sniper server :) |
| 18:52.38 | jpa- | except when it is day in europe :P |
| 18:52.45 | jpa- | http://www.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/bzfs/players-daily.png |
| 18:53.10 | ToughShooter | I need 7 shots to be effective, 3 are in the works and with one I'm only in the upper half or in the middle |
| 18:53.38 | bryjen | 4 of the still-occupied 1.10 server have european ccTLD's |
| 18:53.47 | bryjen | 2 .cx 2 .hr |
| 18:54.52 | bryjen | oh, and an .it makes 5 |
| 18:55.02 | ToughShooter | I am not using 1.10.x anymore because 2.0.x is so much better (it's really great) |
| 18:55.55 | bryjen | yeah. i was just wondering about those 44 people in the ~bzflist |
| 18:57.18 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 18:57.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 18:57.40 | shorty114 | wb, ChanServ |
| 18:58.05 | ToughShooter | I don't like gamesunited map and others use to be rather empty when compared to american time zones |
| 19:05.58 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro) |
| 19:11.37 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c121-p004.vtx.ch) |
| 19:12.28 | *** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c121-p004.vtx.ch) |
| 19:12.28 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9EA6939.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:12.43 | *** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c121-p004.vtx.ch) |
| 19:14.23 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-190.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:24.07 | JeffM2501 | elivs is everywhere |
| 19:24.13 | JeffM2501 | elivis is still the king |
| 19:24.17 | shorty114 | elivis? |
| 19:24.23 | JeffM2501 | elvis |
| 19:24.24 | shorty114 | ah |
| 19:24.27 | shorty114 | that'd make sense |
| 19:25.05 | JeffM2501 | elvis is your mom |
| 19:25.12 | JeffM2501 | everyone got some elvis |
| 19:25.22 | JeffM2501 | everybody exept for one person |
| 19:25.26 | JeffM2501 | the anti-elivs |
| 19:26.49 | wegstar | pie? |
| 19:27.43 | ruskie | gaahhhh box froze up while playing bzflag |
| 19:28.23 | ruskie | hasn't happend in a looooong time |
| 19:28.37 | wegstar | what map were you on? |
| 19:30.02 | ruskie | viper.pimpi.org |
| 19:30.23 | ruskie | during the game monitor shutdown, sounds started cycling, and I couldn't switch to any other console |
| 19:30.29 | wegstar | o |
| 19:30.46 | ruskie | had to do a *shudder* hard reboot |
| 19:30.52 | ruskie | not even the magic keys worked.... |
| 19:30.55 | wegstar | eek |
| 19:30.59 | spldart | I went to that elvis place in memphis once. Don't like memphis. Got an ex there too. My brother went to graceland once on a tour... When they went to the grave thing he stated aloud for the whole group to here (put on simpsons cletus voice) Is this where he's pushing up the daisys?!? |
| 19:31.21 | wegstar | heh |
| 19:31.40 | shorty114 | . |
| 19:31.45 | spldart | The tour group was NOT happy. |
| 19:31.48 | *** join/#bzflag bz0879 (~cb51a185@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:32.10 | spldart | I, on the other hand, was laughing my azz off :D |
| 19:36.36 | bryjen | even if you weren't a fan, a more little respect for the dead... |
| 19:37.16 | bryjen | s/more little/little more/ |
| 19:39.06 | JeffM2501 | elvis isn't dead |
| 19:39.10 | JeffM2501 | he just went home |
| 19:43.09 | JeffM2501 | you know all that bermuda triangle stuff? |
| 19:43.13 | JeffM2501 | you know what that means? |
| 19:43.21 | JeffM2501 | Elvis needs boats! |
| 19:43.44 | bryjen | and planes |
| 19:44.35 | Aribeth | lol |
| 19:47.31 | *** join/#bzflag Weregoose (~427ab546@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:59.13 | spldart | Respect for the dead? |
| 20:07.29 | *** join/#bzflag PerlMan (~khamar@c-67-160-148-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:08.08 | PerlMan | anyone here willing to discuss a bzflag202 compile problem? |
| 20:08.36 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@141-59.240.81.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 20:09.06 | PerlMan | KyleH here, I've compiled bzflag 202 on linux but the thing will not run. Anyone else see this issue? |
| 20:09.33 | bryjen | what's it do? |
| 20:09.54 | PerlMan | ./bzflag -directory /home/khamar/bz202/bzflag-2.0.2.20050318/data |
| 20:09.54 | PerlMan | Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed) |
| 20:10.28 | JeffM2501 | what video card? |
| 20:10.29 | wegstar | ... |
| 20:10.51 | PerlMan | I've got an onboard Intel video from Intel's 845 motherboard |
| 20:11.00 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 20:11.07 | JeffM2501 | you have 3d drivers for it? |
| 20:11.23 | gina | aw |
| 20:11.26 | gina | onboard intel:( |
| 20:11.40 | PerlMan | good question. All other bzflag clients work just fine with existing setup. |
| 20:11.46 | PerlMan | did something change with 202? |
| 20:11.51 | JeffM2501 | 2.0.0 did? |
| 20:11.56 | PerlMan | yes, and does. |
| 20:11.58 | JeffM2501 | nothing major |
| 20:12.05 | JeffM2501 | just bug fixes |
| 20:12.18 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 added SDL |
| 20:12.28 | PerlMan | 2.0 works well on my system. |
| 20:13.50 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 20:13.55 | PerlMan | I thought so. |
| 20:16.45 | PerlMan | my bzflag 2.00 client reports "Mesa Intel..." on startup. Does that mean its not using SDL? |
| 20:17.23 | PerlMan | "Mesa DRI Intel 845G..." is the statement. |
| 20:18.01 | bryjen | no, that's normal |
| 20:18.04 | PerlMan | ok |
| 20:18.09 | JeffM2501 | that means your using software |
| 20:18.12 | JeffM2501 | ish |
| 20:18.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah your on DRI |
| 20:18.27 | PerlMan | ok-ish |
| 20:18.28 | JeffM2501 | probably about as good as your going to get |
| 20:19.16 | bryjen | no, it always says mesa, as mesa it the GL implementation |
| 20:19.30 | JeffM2501 | for him it is:) |
| 20:19.59 | PerlMan | what causes the SDL parachute Deployment (wierd error) |
| 20:20.03 | bryjen | for x.org+DRI it is |
| 20:20.23 | JeffM2501 | an exception in SDL |
| 20:20.45 | PerlMan | perhaps I can upgrade SDL or some such to fix the error. |
| 20:20.55 | Tupone | if you have gdb, you can see where it stop |
| 20:21.58 | PerlMan | I could install gdb and try that |
| 20:22.24 | Tupone | have you built it by yourself? I mean bzflag |
| 20:22.30 | PerlMan | yes I have |
| 20:22.39 | Tupone | try to add --enable-debug |
| 20:22.42 | PerlMan | this is a fresh build of the 2.0.2 source |
| 20:23.10 | Tupone | irc with enable-debug there is no parachute |
| 20:23.22 | PerlMan | ok |
| 20:24.15 | PerlMan | bzflag builds without error but it takes awhile. |
| 20:28.22 | PerlMan | Tupone do I set that switch during configure with ./configure --enable-debug or during the make with make --enable-debug ??? |
| 20:28.52 | Tupone | configure |
| 20:29.04 | PerlMan | ok I see it under "special options" now |
| 20:33.12 | PerlMan | one warning: configure: WARNING: adns seems to not be available on your system. |
| 20:33.12 | Tupone | prolly you don't have |
| 20:33.12 | PerlMan | running make now |
| 20:35.46 | PerlMan | I was a bit surprised that the 2.0.2 stable source did not result in an rpm for redhat systems sooner. |
| 20:39.34 | spldart | I have a quick question I keep forgetting to ask... Does my server send recieve a packet each time some central list place checks to see what servers are up? |
| 20:40.44 | PerlMan | Tupone, after that build bzflag2.0.2 ran and displayed the server list just fine. I hit F12 to return here and got the following message: warning: leaving MCOP Dispatcher and still 146 types alive. |
| 20:41.03 | spldart | I've noticed in the dos box that i get alot of player 1 accepted and player 1 removed's scrolling by |
| 20:41.05 | Tupone | MCOP dispatcher ? |
| 20:41.47 | PerlMan | Tupone I know nothing of MCOP Dispatcher |
| 20:42.15 | Tupone | if you gre the source ... can you find it? |
| 20:42.21 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user) |
| 20:42.59 | PerlMan | it appears to be a kde thing |
| 20:44.09 | PerlMan | now bzflag 2.0.0 crashes again. It ran the first time! wierd. I'm going to restart X and see if that clears anything up. |
| 20:46.25 | bryjen | MCOP is related to artsd, probably brought in by SDL's sound support |
| 20:47.27 | bryjen | spldart: yes, things that poll for stats and player lists have to connect to each active bzfs |
| 20:48.26 | *** join/#bzflag PerlMan (~khamar@c-67-160-148-21.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:48.29 | wegstar | :) |
| 20:48.43 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.jvl.wi.charter.com) |
| 20:49.09 | PerlMan | Tupac, even more wierdness now. Bzflag2.0.0 runs now but I have slow sound. On exit, I get an error about dev/dsp |
| 20:49.22 | PerlMan | then sound is dead for my system until I logout/in again |
| 20:49.32 | spldart | Thanks bryjen.. How much data is each one of those 'check' packets. Are we talking itty bitty quick status or big whole map |
| 20:49.33 | PerlMan | bzflag2.0 runs without issue |
| 20:51.57 | Tupone | why dsp? |
| 20:52.04 | Tupone | have you alsa? |
| 20:52.22 | PerlMan | these are also good questions. |
| 20:52.50 | PerlMan | I have Fedora 2. It uses both optionally I think. |
| 20:53.14 | PerlMan | I tend to install, take standard config if it works, dont change anything unless it is an issue. |
| 20:53.26 | bryjen | "slow sound" usually means its going through artsd or esd (sound daemon) probly because they already had /dev/dsp (which causes that message) |
| 20:53.55 | PerlMan | but my 2.0 install works perfectly? |
| 20:55.23 | PerlMan | Sound drivers used: ALSA0.9 |
| 20:55.30 | PerlMan | looks like I'm using ALSA |
| 20:57.13 | Tupone | PerlMan: what you read on the chat window about audio driver? |
| 20:57.40 | PerlMan | Tupone, please elaborate? Do you mean during startup of bzflag client? |
| 20:58.08 | Tupone | during the startup, the client write Audio driver: xxxx |
| 20:58.43 | PerlMan | let me check this, one sec. |
| 20:59.51 | PerlMan | Tupone is this on the same line as MESA DRI??? I do not have this line that starts Audio driver: xxx |
| 21:00.13 | PerlMan | I just checked in bzflag2.0 is it different in bzflag2.0.2? |
| 21:02.05 | Tupone | Audio Driver : <something> |
| 21:02.22 | Tupone | is a line after the MESA things |
| 21:02.38 | PerlMan | Tupone, I do not have this line displayed upon startup. |
| 21:02.54 | Tupone | so you don't have SDL |
| 21:03.07 | Tupone | you juts use OSS audio |
| 21:03.30 | PerlMan | how do I check this? |
| 21:04.02 | Tupone | the 1st line, what does it says? |
| 21:04.53 | Tupone | BZflag version .... |
| 21:04.57 | PerlMan | i am looking now in the bzflag 2.0 client... |
| 21:05.15 | Tupone | see both |
| 21:05.37 | PerlMan | Tupone the first line says BZFlag version 2.0.0.20050121-stable-linux-gnu |
| 21:05.50 | Tupone | so no SDL |
| 21:05.54 | Tupone | the 2.0.2? |
| 21:06.05 | PerlMan | ok one sec |
| 21:07.27 | PerlMan | ok the 2.0.2 is different |
| 21:07.44 | PerlMan | it is the BZFlag version 2.0.0.20050403-stable-linux client |
| 21:07.55 | PerlMan | it also says Audio Driver: artsc |
| 21:08.02 | PerlMan | below - this is new |
| 21:08.03 | Tupone | 2.0.0 ? |
| 21:08.07 | PerlMan | oops |
| 21:08.18 | PerlMan | sorry that should say 2.0.2.20050403 |
| 21:08.49 | Tupone | without SDL at the end? |
| 21:08.57 | PerlMan | the 2.0.2 client has a new line below in chat window that says Audio Drive: artsc |
| 21:09.01 | PerlMan | it does not say SDL |
| 21:09.38 | PerlMan | Audio Driver : artsc |
| 21:09.47 | Tupone | BZFlag version 2.0.3.20050403-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 21:09.53 | Tupone | that is mine |
| 21:10.23 | PerlMan | and so you are correct again. |
| 21:10.47 | PerlMan | BZFlag verson 2.0.2.20050403-STABLE-linus-gnu-SDL |
| 21:11.16 | PerlMan | Tupone is this my problem? |
| 21:11.16 | Tupone | you're using kde |
| 21:11.19 | PerlMan | yes |
| 21:11.26 | Tupone | that is the difference |
| 21:11.30 | Tupone | not the problem |
| 21:11.44 | Tupone | go to option/audio/driver |
| 21:12.23 | Tupone | write alsa and then return |
| 21:12.42 | PerlMan | ok |
| 21:13.22 | Tupone | exit from bzflag and restart |
| 21:13.34 | PerlMan | segfault |
| 21:13.50 | Tupone | segfault when restarting? |
| 21:14.04 | PerlMan | yes |
| 21:14.16 | PerlMan | then when i restart alsa is missing (not saved) |
| 21:14.48 | Tupone | then try to put there dsp |
| 21:14.52 | PerlMan | ok one sec |
| 21:15.53 | Tupone | I'm leaving ... nite all :/ |
| 21:15.54 | PerlMan | it is stuck on audio driver artsc |
| 21:16.02 | PerlMan | Tupone thanks for trying to help |
| 21:16.07 | Tupone | change it in the .config file |
| 21:16.10 | PerlMan | ok |
| 21:17.46 | *** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (~BinarySpi@63.99.132.138) |
| 21:18.16 | cosmos | ok pc hardware gurus. 3ware sata 8506 raid controller. does it store the volume/lun configs on the disks or the controller nvram itself |
| 21:18.31 | cosmos | ie if it goes bad can i just put the disks in the same ports on another 3ware card and go |
| 21:19.29 | spldart | It was my understanding that it's on the config is on the card. |
| 21:19.37 | spldart | But I am NOT sure about that :( |
| 21:19.49 | spldart | Grr |
| 21:19.49 | cosmos | intolerably lame |
| 21:19.52 | spldart | disjointed typing |
| 21:19.53 | purple_cow | cosmos: you can reassemble the RAID on another card, but iirc it requires a little config work |
| 21:19.53 | cosmos | but typical |
| 21:20.24 | *** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (~BinarySpi@63.99.132.138) |
| 21:20.52 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:21.23 | brlcad | anyone else experiencing east coast US connectivity problems? |
| 21:21.33 | CBG | I have a problem with the my.bzflag.org/bb/ forums... |
| 21:21.43 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 21:21.44 | brlcad | can't ssh to a slew of places |
| 21:21.54 | brlcad | but i can get to some |
| 21:22.04 | *** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (~BinarySpi@63.99.132.138) |
| 21:22.05 | CBG | I chnaged my email address in my profile and it said I had to reactivate my account from an email they sent me |
| 21:22.19 | CBG | but I never got an email... |
| 21:22.22 | JeffM2501 | what name did you change it to |
| 21:22.33 | JeffM2501 | it probalby got snaged by your ISPs spam filter |
| 21:22.45 | CBG | i changed my email address to cannonballguy@hotmail.com |
| 21:23.22 | CBG | its not in the junk mail... |
| 21:23.24 | JeffM2501 | gotta love hotmail |
| 21:23.33 | JeffM2501 | you've been activated |
| 21:23.42 | CBG | you just did it for me? |
| 21:23.45 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 21:23.52 | CBG | wow. thanks :D |
| 21:23.55 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 21:24.13 | CBG | what will you do now if you find out I don't own cannonballguy@hotmail.com ? |
| 21:24.31 | JeffM2501 | next time the board sends you a mial it'll bounce |
| 21:24.32 | *** join/#bzflag escristian (~escristia@modemcable054.201-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 21:24.45 | CBG | not if someone else has the email address.,.. |
| 21:24.46 | BinarySpike | I have a question... BZFlag is setting my maps flag count to 40 when I have in the 'world' +s 3...-s 10 (so it shouldn't be higher than 10...) What do I do??? |
| 21:24.47 | CBG | :P |
| 21:24.49 | JeffM2501 | and I don't think your out to screw anyone over |
| 21:24.53 | JeffM2501 | are you?> |
| 21:25.00 | JeffM2501 | I can deactivate you :) |
| 21:25.03 | JeffM2501 | if you REALY want |
| 21:25.08 | spldart | hehe |
| 21:25.12 | CBG | Jeff: Who knows? I might be an 82 yr old Lesbian... |
| 21:25.21 | CBG | but I told you Im a 16 yr old boy... |
| 21:25.46 | brlcad | I'd trust an 82 yr old lesbian before I'd trust a 16 yr old boy |
| 21:25.50 | spldart | LOL |
| 21:25.55 | CBG | Thats a walid point... :D |
| 21:25.56 | JeffM2501 | ok fine |
| 21:26.00 | JeffM2501 | send me an e-mail |
| 21:26.01 | CBG | *valid |
| 21:26.09 | JeffM2501 | cus I just deactivated your account |
| 21:26.12 | CBG | Sorry, my frial old fingers are not good to type with ;) |
| 21:26.18 | CBG | LOL at Jeff |
| 21:26.35 | JeffM2501 | and he' thinks I jest :) |
| 21:26.49 | JeffM2501 | jeffm2501 at sbcglobal.net |
| 21:26.57 | CBG | Grrr |
| 21:27.15 | JeffM2501 | well you do raise doubts |
| 21:27.22 | JeffM2501 | so you are trying to screw us? |
| 21:27.31 | JeffM2501 | I could just ban ya |
| 21:27.36 | CBG | lol. no no |
| 21:27.43 | CBG | Im not trying to SCREW you. |
| 21:27.46 | JeffM2501 | then why would you not allready have the account? |
| 21:27.50 | brlcad | eww |
| 21:28.02 | CBG | nJeff, lighten up... it was a joke. |
| 21:28.13 | CBG | and im still using the forums... |
| 21:28.22 | CBG | your deactivation didnt work well. |
| 21:28.24 | JeffM2501 | when your session times out |
| 21:28.29 | JeffM2501 | you will no longer be :) |
| 21:28.45 | CBG | ah. ok :) |
| 21:28.51 | JeffM2501 | active is only checked on login |
| 21:29.04 | JeffM2501 | you can't play any new BZ games till you activate ether |
| 21:29.42 | CBG | you banned me from bzflag? |
| 21:29.46 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:29.53 | JeffM2501 | glboal auth checks the active flag |
| 21:29.54 | CBG | then... what? |
| 21:30.07 | CBG | what do you mean by BZ Games? |
| 21:30.32 | JeffM2501 | any server that uses global authentication |
| 21:30.35 | JeffM2501 | you would not auth |
| 21:30.42 | JeffM2501 | cus you were set to deactive |
| 21:30.48 | CBG | ohh... what servers use that? |
| 21:30.53 | JeffM2501 | spldart, hepcat |
| 21:30.58 | JeffM2501 | a number of the big ones |
| 21:31.04 | CBG | gu.de? |
| 21:31.09 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 21:31.12 | JeffM2501 | don't know them all |
| 21:31.24 | JeffM2501 | your active, so it dosn't mater |
| 21:31.40 | PerlMan | my audio setting in 2.0.2 refuses to be stored in the config file! yeesh. |
| 21:31.46 | CBG | ty jeff. ;) |
| 21:31.51 | JeffM2501 | have fun |
| 21:32.11 | PerlMan | yes, gu.de uses global authentication |
| 21:32.24 | JeffM2501 | does it require it tho? |
| 21:32.52 | PerlMan | no it does not require it |
| 21:33.06 | CBG | so I would have been alright then :P |
| 21:33.07 | PerlMan | in fact gu.de was a holdout for local authentication too. |
| 21:33.22 | PerlMan | you may have to /deregister befor global authentication will work |
| 21:33.27 | JeffM2501 | there are still some that do |
| 21:33.33 | PerlMan | most servers have a preference for global authentication |
| 21:33.38 | JeffM2501 | local gives them your password |
| 21:33.56 | PerlMan | gu.de will require you the deauthenticate if you have a local password before global will then work. |
| 21:34.15 | CBG | does that mean I have to do anything? |
| 21:34.16 | PerlMan | I mean you must /deregister locally before global will then take |
| 21:34.18 | JeffM2501 | yeah cus there are issues |
| 21:34.21 | JeffM2501 | no your fine |
| 21:34.25 | CBG | ok. lol :D |
| 21:34.37 | JeffM2501 | global wasn't put in well with the existing local |
| 21:34.57 | JeffM2501 | local should have been chagned to use tokens like global does, but just gen them localy |
| 21:35.15 | CBG | Has nobody else noticed my "New Game Mode Ideas" (http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3412) |
| 21:35.24 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 21:35.30 | CBG | any comments? |
| 21:36.35 | JeffM2501 | the bulldogs seem somewhat complex |
| 21:36.42 | PerlMan | can anyone here quickly look at their config file and tell me if audio:config is now included? It was not there in 2.0. |
| 21:36.45 | CBG | (mainly on the two variations of BullDog) |
| 21:36.48 | JeffM2501 | #3 could be an option |
| 21:36.55 | CBG | SuperRabbits? |
| 21:37.03 | JeffM2501 | and #4 seems very map dependent |
| 21:37.06 | JeffM2501 | ya |
| 21:37.14 | CBG | basically, for that you just need to be able to have more than one flag... |
| 21:37.36 | JeffM2501 | that won't happen with out major changes to the codebase |
| 21:37.45 | CBG | nand your right 4 is map dependant, but as far as I know, right now you cant have anything like a race, or any "No Shoot Zones" which could be used for loads of things too. |
| 21:38.03 | JeffM2501 | patches welcome :) |
| 21:38.14 | PerlMan | ++ for no shoot zones. this is need IMHO |
| 21:38.30 | CBG | :D thnx perlman! |
| 21:38.51 | JeffM2501 | if someone does it it could be put into 2.2.0 |
| 21:39.01 | *** join/#bzflag LordSarpedon (~46f0e280@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:39.02 | PerlMan | ok, if I change audio:config to ALSA - does this get stored in config.cfg? |
| 21:39.06 | CBG | when is that gonna be coming out, any idea? |
| 21:39.08 | BinarySpike | How do I host a game "global" game??? (I have a 128k connection so a couple players other than me wouldn't hurt) |
| 21:39.22 | JeffM2501 | CBG, noone has even started it |
| 21:39.30 | JeffM2501 | cvs is still 2.0.x compatable |
| 21:39.37 | CBG | Jeff: okay. lol. |
| 21:39.37 | trepan | fork! |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM2501 | been a lot of fork talk of late |
| 21:39.51 | LordSarpedon | And so return, despite your best hopes |
| 21:39.52 | PerlMan | BinarySpike you simply run the bzfs server. You will need a map and a config file ;-) see the manpage. |
| 21:40.03 | CBG | Fork? What? |
| 21:40.05 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, make it -public |
| 21:40.09 | trepan | spoon! |
| 21:40.11 | CBG | KNIFE!! SPOON!!! |
| 21:40.18 | CBG | lol at trepan! |
| 21:40.20 | LordSarpedon | fork() |
| 21:40.34 | JeffM2501 | a fork would be a group of people snaping off the code and making there own changes to it |
| 21:40.35 | *** part/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c121-p004.vtx.ch) |
| 21:40.51 | JeffM2501 | so there wold be 2 |
| 21:40.55 | BinarySpike | Ok, will the config file "override" BZFLag (So I don't have to use bzfs)??? |
| 21:41.03 | CBG | why would that be useful? |
| 21:41.04 | trepan | hm, change fork() to exec() |
| 21:41.12 | CBG | then there would be 2 versions of the game... |
| 21:41.14 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, what config? |
| 21:41.15 | CBG | that would suck. |
| 21:41.21 | LordSarpedon | fork: an ignorant UNIX command for creating a thread, except a copy of the existing one. |
| 21:41.23 | PerlMan | BinarySpike you dont have to have a config file, but the command line to start bzfs can be quite long. |
| 21:41.42 | JeffM2501 | CBG, it may be the only way to keep both partys happy |
| 21:41.43 | PerlMan | BinarySpike read the man page for bzfs and all will be clear. |
| 21:41.57 | CBG | JeffM2501: What 2 parties? |
| 21:41.58 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, read the "how to start a public server" post on bzbb as well |
| 21:42.09 | BinarySpike | But, will the config file override BZFlags setting??? |
| 21:42.31 | JeffM2501 | CBG, there is a group of people who want bz to stay the same ( the 2.0 haters ), and a group that wants it to have a number of newer features ( the tilt people ). |
| 21:42.34 | PerlMan | no the bzflag is a separate program. Do not confuse bzflag with the server. they are separate. |
| 21:42.39 | JeffM2501 | these 2 groups are incompatable |
| 21:42.57 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, yeah bzflag has it's own config, it is NOT the config used by bzfs |
| 21:43.10 | Fork | Therefor, by majority vote, one group is to be executed at dawn |
| 21:43.11 | CBG | Jeff: There are LIVING PEOPLE that DISLIKE Version 2??? |
| 21:43.14 | JeffM2501 | you don't even need the game client or data dir to runa server |
| 21:43.18 | BinarySpike | Can I override that one? |
| 21:43.23 | JeffM2501 | CBG, many |
| 21:43.32 | Fork | Lol. The server is more of a relay than a server |
| 21:43.40 | JeffM2501 | what do you mean "override" |
| 21:43.51 | Fork | He means the settings when you do Start Server from the client |
| 21:43.53 | JeffM2501 | if you want to run as server you pass in a config name |
| 21:43.56 | CBG | Jeff2501: Is there one general reason why, or do they all have completly different reasons? |
| 21:43.57 | JeffM2501 | ohh no |
| 21:44.06 | JeffM2501 | dude don't eeven use the client to start a server |
| 21:44.09 | JeffM2501 | do it command line |
| 21:44.10 | PerlMan | BinarySpike please go read http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2915 and then ask questions. |
| 21:44.11 | Fork | Lol |
| 21:44.14 | JeffM2501 | READ the post |
| 21:44.30 | JeffM2501 | CBG, they don't like wingz, and the don't like meshes |
| 21:44.37 | JeffM2501 | they are geting used to it |
| 21:44.41 | JeffM2501 | but it's hard |
| 21:44.51 | JeffM2501 | larger changes like tilting the tank would just mess them up |
| 21:44.52 | CBG | Jeff2501: Wings are only on some servers... |
| 21:45.01 | CBG | and what are meshes? |
| 21:45.02 | JeffM2501 | it would make the game not be "clasic" bzflag for them anymore |
| 21:45.08 | JeffM2501 | objects that are not boxes |
| 21:45.14 | JeffM2501 | or pyramids |
| 21:45.16 | CBG | Why would you wan to TILT the tank??? |
| 21:45.26 | CBG | oh... whats wrong with them? |
| 21:45.27 | JeffM2501 | so you can drive up a freaking hill |
| 21:45.33 | PerlMan | to climb and incline plane for example? |
| 21:45.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:45.37 | CBG | Oh right. No.that would suck. |
| 21:45.45 | JeffM2501 | actualy it could be REALY cool |
| 21:45.49 | CBG | why? |
| 21:45.51 | JeffM2501 | if the game was changed |
| 21:45.53 | PerlMan | ++tilting |
| 21:46.00 | JeffM2501 | because then the game would be more complex then a 2d game |
| 21:46.08 | CBG | so? |
| 21:46.11 | JeffM2501 | bzflag as it is now is a 2d game with some graphics |
| 21:46.16 | JeffM2501 | you don't play many other games do you? |
| 21:46.16 | CBG | just because something is more complex, dont mean its better |
| 21:46.24 | JeffM2501 | no but it does mean it is difrent |
| 21:46.26 | CBG | how is it 2d? |
| 21:46.41 | PerlMan | the plane of the tank never changes. |
| 21:46.45 | JeffM2501 | at any one time, you only have to deal with those peoiple on your plane |
| 21:46.49 | CBG | all the graphics are 3D and you can go forward/back, left/right and up/down... = 3D |
| 21:46.49 | JeffM2501 | you cain't aim up |
| 21:47.03 | JeffM2501 | the gameplay is well repesented by that radar |
| 21:47.03 | CBG | that doesnt make it 2d |
| 21:47.05 | JeffM2501 | it's 2d |
| 21:47.07 | CBG | and so what? |
| 21:47.11 | JeffM2501 | ok 2.5 d :) |
| 21:47.14 | CBG | its not. you can jump. |
| 21:47.25 | CBG | it is 3d. |
| 21:47.28 | Fork | Yes, but you can only by hit by those on the same level as you |
| 21:47.28 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't play the same as like a quake game |
| 21:47.32 | JeffM2501 | where you can go all over the place |
| 21:47.41 | JeffM2501 | it's just a difrent way of looking at it |
| 21:47.42 | CBG | 1 dimension is forward/back OR left/right OR up/down (Or Time travel) |
| 21:47.44 | Fork | So imagine a bunch of 2d tank games stacked up, and you just move between them |
| 21:47.52 | JeffM2501 | CBG, we were speaking figurateivly |
| 21:47.53 | CBG | and on BZ you can do all 3 = 3dimensions = 3D |
| 21:47.54 | PerlMan | lol fork |
| 21:47.55 | JeffM2501 | not literaly |
| 21:48.07 | JeffM2501 | yes the world is 3d |
| 21:48.12 | JeffM2501 | but you are limited in how you can move about it |
| 21:48.14 | Fork | The gameplay is 2d |
| 21:48.17 | JeffM2501 | shots allways travel in plane |
| 21:48.19 | CBG | AHHH |
| 21:48.24 | PerlMan | actually, the world is at least 11D. |
| 21:48.25 | CBG | FInd a definition of 3d |
| 21:48.31 | CBG | read it 5 times |
| 21:48.35 | Fork | CBG: graphics are 3d |
| 21:48.38 | JeffM2501 | ok drop it |
| 21:48.38 | CBG | then cokme back and tell me bz is not 3d. |
| 21:48.41 | Fork | gameplay is 2d |
| 21:48.46 | JeffM2501 | why do I even bother |
| 21:48.46 | Fork | Dropped |
| 21:49.00 | JeffM2501 | go play UT2k4 with a tank |
| 21:49.01 | CBG | (I am right - it is 3 dimensional) Dropped :P |
| 21:49.02 | Fork | !mhm |
| 21:49.03 | guu | Fork: Huwwwwat!!?!?! |
| 21:49.16 | JeffM2501 | then you'll know what people see bzflag could be |
| 21:49.18 | Fork | ??? |
| 21:49.25 | JeffM2501 | the world is 3d |
| 21:49.32 | CBG | you said drop it |
| 21:49.33 | JeffM2501 | the gameplay can be described as a variation of 2d |
| 21:49.34 | PerlMan | ok, my 2.0.2 client is broken. It insist on using artsc for sound. I need it to be ALSA. how do I fix this? |
| 21:49.37 | Fork | I was refferring to guu |
| 21:49.37 | guu | But I is going to buy 'the wall' today, Fork. |
| 21:49.39 | CBG | which everyoen did, except you. |
| 21:49.46 | JeffM2501 | that's wherre I'm droping it |
| 21:49.52 | JeffM2501 | but the point is |
| 21:49.55 | CBG | finally... |
| 21:49.56 | JeffM2501 | there are people who want more |
| 21:49.58 | CBG | NO BUTS! |
| 21:50.00 | Fork | Like me |
| 21:50.02 | JeffM2501 | and there are people who want it to stay the same |
| 21:50.07 | CBG | I want more out of bz... |
| 21:50.18 | JeffM2501 | those 2 goals are hard pressed to co-exist |
| 21:50.20 | PerlMan | please, how do I make bzflag 2.0.2 use ALSA? |
| 21:50.22 | CBG | but I just dint see why driving up angles is so great....? |
| 21:50.30 | CBG | *dont |
| 21:50.38 | JeffM2501 | CBG, have you ever tried it in any other games? |
| 21:50.38 | Fork | They can exist just fine. Add server options for them, just like jumping |
| 21:50.52 | CBG | i dont play any otehr tank games. |
| 21:50.52 | JeffM2501 | Fork, that argument dosn't seem to work for wingz |
| 21:51.07 | JeffM2501 | the terain maps will look a whole LOT cooler |
| 21:51.11 | JeffM2501 | and everyone will use them |
| 21:51.19 | JeffM2501 | it also means changes to the interface |
| 21:51.20 | Fork | Is that in the works, Jeff? |
| 21:51.22 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:51.23 | CBG | you talking to me still Jeff? |
| 21:51.35 | JeffM2501 | I'm just talking :) |
| 21:51.41 | Fork | Terrain coud be a grayscale |
| 21:51.47 | Fork | Simple 'nuff |
| 21:52.03 | Fork | Although such terrain would invalidate every ounce of movement code |
| 21:52.06 | CBG | so the stuff abut terrain maps is to do with tanks tilting...? |
| 21:52.08 | JeffM2501 | the code is screwy enough now, adding more and more options with out a major rewrite makes it worse |
| 21:52.09 | PerlMan | the serverlist should actually be a world with multiple teleporters linking to each map. heh |
| 21:52.13 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 21:52.24 | JeffM2501 | so much would have to change it is a huge project |
| 21:52.35 | CBG | PerlMan, that would be AWESOME |
| 21:52.37 | JeffM2501 | people have talked about a loby server |
| 21:52.41 | CBG | but a pain to add a new server... |
| 21:52.44 | JeffM2501 | but then the bandwith of the list server goes WAY up |
| 21:52.46 | Fork | JeffM, I would think that this project should be rewritten from the ground up in C# |
| 21:52.46 | CBG | and it would get old fast |
| 21:53.00 | JeffM2501 | this project can be remade from the groun up in any language |
| 21:53.12 | JeffM2501 | they did it in python |
| 21:53.13 | BinarySpike | (From a game programmer: 3D is the movement *or* viewing of 3 demensions, BZFlag is written in OpenGL and based with a three point system... IT'S 3D!!!) |
| 21:53.14 | CBG | what language is it in? |
| 21:53.15 | JeffM2501 | I've done it in C++ |
| 21:53.19 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is C++ |
| 21:53.28 | JeffM2501 | C# limits the platforms |
| 21:53.30 | CBG | nthanks BinarySpike :D |
| 21:53.34 | PerlMan | why would the bandwidth go up? it could use the same interface now - just have a local map created using the new list. |
| 21:53.36 | Fork | Except any rewrite requires support from the existing developers |
| 21:53.49 | JeffM2501 | so did mine |
| 21:53.52 | Fork | Otherwise the project wont get far |
| 21:53.52 | JeffM2501 | didn't happen |
| 21:53.58 | JeffM2501 | BINGO!!!!!!! |
| 21:54.08 | purple_cow | C# isn't nearly as limiting now as it was a year ago |
| 21:54.10 | Fork | C# doesn't limit the platforms |
| 21:54.13 | JeffM2501 | well that's good |
| 21:54.16 | purple_cow | Fork: yes, it does :P |
| 21:54.22 | Fork | Mono would work fine |
| 21:54.30 | JeffM2501 | will it run on old SGI machines, sun systems, BeOS, and a mac? |
| 21:54.38 | Fork | Mac es |
| 21:54.44 | JeffM2501 | what about the others? |
| 21:54.50 | purple_cow | mono doesn't run on every architecture yet |
| 21:54.59 | Fork | SGI machines no. But if you are running on an sgi machine, you can stay with 2.0 |
| 21:55.04 | JeffM2501 | you pull SGI, you pull bzflag's roots |
| 21:55.15 | JeffM2501 | then one could say it's not bzflag anymore |
| 21:55.21 | JeffM2501 | it's "the cool C# tank game" |
| 21:55.30 | cosmos | heh |
| 21:55.34 | cosmos | that hits close to home |
| 21:55.35 | BinarySpike | I think C# is a scripting language (like Java), I've never heard of it on mac (only windows)... |
| 21:55.44 | Fork | Roots?? Hah. Roots is the reason Linux has the problems it does |
| 21:55.54 | purple_cow | neither java nor C# is scripting :P |
| 21:55.56 | Fork | http://www.go-mono.com |
| 21:56.05 | Fork | Mac, Linux, Windows, BSD |
| 21:56.14 | CBG | wont load |
| 21:56.15 | JeffM2501 | Fork, dosn't change the fact that it is STILL a REAL problem you would have with people |
| 21:56.23 | CBG | wait. yes it does. nvm |
| 21:56.38 | JeffM2501 | Tim would never approve droping SGI |
| 21:56.42 | BinarySpike | Ok, not scripting, Higher level language (C/C++ is not a higher level language). |
| 21:56.47 | JeffM2501 | SGI is the reason we have bzflag |
| 21:56.59 | Fork | So? |
| 21:56.59 | bryjen | higher is a relative term |
| 21:57.09 | JeffM2501 | with out tim support you don't get the bzflg name |
| 21:57.16 | JeffM2501 | or most of the devs |
| 21:57.22 | JeffM2501 | not that there are a ton of em |
| 21:57.29 | Fork | uggh. |
| 21:57.41 | Chestal | everyone knows that bzflag should be written in LISP |
| 21:57.50 | Fork | Chestal, youre a genius! |
| 21:58.00 | Fork | Lol |
| 21:58.17 | JeffM2501 | CBG, would your C# solution run well on a system with out hardware 3d? |
| 21:58.26 | JeffM2501 | how fast is C# compared to C++ ? |
| 21:58.26 | brlcad | ML! |
| 21:58.30 | BinarySpike | BZFlag should be ported to Dim3 (You'd need a 1.5Grz to run it...) |
| 21:58.32 | CBG | what? |
| 21:58.33 | JeffM2501 | sorry fork |
| 21:58.35 | JeffM2501 | not oyu |
| 21:58.37 | JeffM2501 | my bad |
| 21:58.39 | CBG | lol |
| 21:58.40 | bryjen | oh noes, brlcad could play bz in emacs! ;) |
| 21:58.44 | Fork | C# is as fast as we need it |
| 21:59.02 | JeffM2501 | I love how interpredted languge fans allways skirt the issue |
| 21:59.04 | JeffM2501 | asnwer it |
| 21:59.08 | JeffM2501 | how fas |
| 21:59.10 | JeffM2501 | compared |
| 21:59.25 | Fork | Lets see if i can pull a benchmark |
| 21:59.29 | JeffM2501 | somohe has to have done the tests |
| 21:59.34 | Chestal | well, a language is neither fast or slow |
| 21:59.36 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: in a lot of my tests, the mono JIT was acceptably fast for fyre |
| 21:59.45 | JeffM2501 | well that's good |
| 21:59.55 | BinarySpike | C# is as fast a Lua! |
| 21:59.56 | JeffM2501 | I"m just curious how much of a slowdown |
| 21:59.56 | Chestal | C#/Mono is about the same speed as Java for simple benchmarks |
| 22:00.05 | purple_cow | dunno how the MS platform works, or how well it works on platforms other than x86 |
| 22:00.05 | brlcad | Chestal: you've never been to mississippi have you? :) fast language ;) |
| 22:00.09 | JeffM2501 | last I heard java was 30X slower |
| 22:00.24 | Fork | much slower |
| 22:00.29 | JeffM2501 | so on a software rendiing system those that get 30fps would then get 1? |
| 22:00.35 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: interpreting java is slow, if you have a good JIT, it works very well |
| 22:00.36 | Birdie | chestal: can you add superkill command for some people on the duc match server, would be usefull to pick a map |
| 22:00.39 | Fork | Although what is gained in ease of programming and adding new features is phenomenal |
| 22:00.49 | BinarySpike | Java is getting slower, because programmers don't use proformance (they leave it to the compiler) |
| 22:00.54 | JeffM2501 | Fork, and that affects the players how? |
| 22:00.56 | Chestal | Birdie: well, there is no authentication on that server still |
| 22:01.01 | Fork | Little, in fact |
| 22:01.07 | brlcad | who the hell started a language discussion this time? |
| 22:01.10 | JeffM2501 | they are the targe user |
| 22:01.16 | CBG | fork and JeffM |
| 22:01.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:01.34 | JeffM2501 | now the hybrid methods have merrit I think :) |
| 22:01.40 | JeffM2501 | make engine and stuff in C++ |
| 22:01.48 | JeffM2501 | make logic in C#, python, or what ever |
| 22:01.57 | lordSarpedon | That would work, I suppose |
| 22:01.58 | JeffM2501 | make the stuff that needs to be fast |
| 22:01.59 | JeffM2501 | fast |
| 22:02.00 | Chestal | well, with mono/.net you could theoretically mix in all kinds of language |
| 22:02.03 | BinarySpike | Yes that would work |
| 22:02.10 | BinarySpike | That's what blender does... |
| 22:02.12 | Chestal | even C++, although I don't think C++/.net is finished yet |
| 22:02.30 | lordSarpedon | To make that work the engine would have to be in an external library that would be loaded by the logic |
| 22:02.31 | JeffM2501 | you'd still have to deal with platformness |
| 22:02.38 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:02.42 | JeffM2501 | lots of code changes |
| 22:02.43 | lordSarpedon | Only the engine would have serious platfrom issue |
| 22:02.47 | JeffM2501 | or the use of a 3rd party engine |
| 22:02.56 | JeffM2501 | well and the C# parser |
| 22:03.01 | JeffM2501 | aka it'd have to work on SGI |
| 22:03.03 | lordSarpedon | parser? |
| 22:03.07 | JeffM2501 | or whateverer |
| 22:03.09 | BinarySpike | Why don't we just spend $300 and build BZFlag in REALBasic! |
| 22:03.23 | lordSarpedon | Yes...we will consider that...:( |
| 22:03.24 | JeffM2501 | why don't we spend 100$ and do it in torque |
| 22:03.27 | JeffM2501 | it has all the stuff |
| 22:03.29 | JeffM2501 | right there |
| 22:03.46 | JeffM2501 | proven game engine complete with tools, physics, and networking code |
| 22:03.52 | LordSarpedon | I disagree |
| 22:03.58 | BinarySpike | $300 is sooo much more though don't you think! |
| 22:04.02 | Birdie | chestal: pimpinella uses the identify stuff on his matchserver, till there is authentication, cant you use that in the mean while? |
| 22:04.12 | JeffM2501 | system works great for tribes 2 |
| 22:04.19 | JeffM2501 | many players per server on that one |
| 22:04.24 | Chestal | Birdie: I guess I'll have to, puts more work on me, though |
| 22:04.31 | JeffM2501 | 32-64 were common |
| 22:04.35 | LordSarpedon | I reccomend RakNet |
| 22:04.41 | JeffM2501 | I know you do |
| 22:04.45 | JeffM2501 | what's it been used in? |
| 22:04.49 | LordSarpedon | torque would be ok |
| 22:04.55 | JeffM2501 | I don't mean just TNL |
| 22:04.57 | LordSarpedon | RakNet has gained fame for MultiTheftAuto |
| 22:05.06 | JeffM2501 | I mean the entire torque engine |
| 22:05.09 | JeffM2501 | 3d and all |
| 22:05.11 | Birdie | chestal: sorry for the work:) |
| 22:05.12 | LordSarpedon | Well, yes. The 3d and such is nice |
| 22:05.18 | JeffM2501 | and the sound |
| 22:05.21 | JeffM2501 | and a world system |
| 22:05.22 | BinarySpike | Ok, I read that post... I was wondering if I can "override" BZFlag's normal Config with one specified in a map??? |
| 22:05.24 | JeffM2501 | and the physics |
| 22:05.34 | LordSarpedon | However, we would maintain better control |
| 22:05.39 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, there is no server config in game |
| 22:05.42 | JeffM2501 | so NO you can't |
| 22:05.51 | JeffM2501 | you don't start public servers from in game |
| 22:05.59 | JeffM2501 | you run them from a command line |
| 22:06.00 | LordSarpedon | A gl engine in c# wouldn't be so difficult for the ones here experienced in GL |
| 22:06.14 | JeffM2501 | torque would give us D3d support too |
| 22:06.26 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, whos' gonna write it? |
| 22:06.36 | BinarySpike | I don't want to start a server I want to know how to use my own config file to make the flags apear right. |
| 22:06.37 | JeffM2501 | and what world database/scenegraph you wana use? |
| 22:06.37 | LordSarpedon | And $100 is for unlimited copies? |
| 22:06.49 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, YOU DON'T not from in game |
| 22:06.52 | JeffM2501 | you make your config |
| 22:06.56 | JeffM2501 | and run it from the command line |
| 22:07.01 | JeffM2501 | public OR local |
| 22:07.11 | JeffM2501 | the in game one is mostly for simple lan servers |
| 22:07.18 | JeffM2501 | if you want more complex setings |
| 22:07.28 | JeffM2501 | you start a server with your own config from a bat file or command line |
| 22:07.29 | JeffM2501 | that's it |
| 22:07.36 | BinarySpike | Ok, so I have to use bzfs or can I use BZFlag? |
| 22:07.46 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, you can distro the binarys all you want |
| 22:07.50 | JeffM2501 | just not open source ;) |
| 22:07.59 | JeffM2501 | but the end user benifits would be HUGE |
| 22:08.21 | JeffM2501 | you can open source the game code |
| 22:08.25 | JeffM2501 | just not engine code |
| 22:08.46 | LordSarpedon | If thats what you want |
| 22:09.02 | JeffM2501 | well that is the question |
| 22:09.06 | JeffM2501 | what do we want :) |
| 22:09.24 | JeffM2501 | I've found that everyone wants something a bit difrent |
| 22:09.46 | LordSarpedon | C# would allow support for any relevant platforms |
| 22:09.55 | JeffM2501 | except SGI you said |
| 22:10.11 | LordSarpedon | As well as a way to quickly implement features which is the most important matter at hand |
| 22:10.22 | BinarySpike | Ok, I've looked over bzflag and you can specify a config file in the command line... Can I use -public and host my game that way, (or do I have to use bzfs to host a game?) |
| 22:10.27 | JeffM2501 | so could a rewrite in a clean C++ framework |
| 22:10.34 | JeffM2501 | I mean if your rewritting it |
| 22:10.39 | LordSarpedon | SGI: non-relevant |
| 22:10.59 | JeffM2501 | BinarySpike, the config for bzflag is for the clinet |
| 22:11.01 | JeffM2501 | NOT for the server |
| 22:11.04 | JeffM2501 | so no |
| 22:11.06 | JeffM2501 | you can't |
| 22:11.09 | BinarySpike | Ok, thanks! |
| 22:11.13 | JeffM2501 | YOU DON"T USE THE GAME CILINET!!! |
| 22:11.18 | JeffM2501 | get that thru your head |
| 22:11.24 | JeffM2501 | just start with a command line |
| 22:11.33 | JeffM2501 | the post has step by step instructions |
| 22:11.50 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, so you never want cosmos to play again? |
| 22:12.08 | LordSarpedon | Perhaps he should consider an upgrade to something a tad more modern and useful |
| 22:12.16 | JeffM2501 | he has a modern SGI |
| 22:12.17 | JeffM2501 | works fine |
| 22:12.19 | cosmos | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:12.29 | JeffM2501 | why would you break him? |
| 22:12.35 | JeffM2501 | just to make it easyer on the devs |
| 22:12.44 | JeffM2501 | do you think the core problem is that it's too hard to code? |
| 22:12.49 | LordSarpedon | Losing a handful of users in the act of gaining more features? |
| 22:12.53 | LordSarpedon | Essentially, yes |
| 22:12.59 | JeffM2501 | we all know C++ fine |
| 22:13.02 | purple_cow | you're not going to gain more features for a *long* time |
| 22:13.07 | JeffM2501 | coding isn't our problem |
| 22:13.19 | JeffM2501 | what features would the end user get right off the bat? |
| 22:13.19 | LordSarpedon | Too much time is spent dealing with the inadequacies of c and the pre-existing code, which is mangled |
| 22:13.27 | JeffM2501 | dude that's just your problem |
| 22:13.30 | purple_cow | i'll admit that development in C# (or whatever) is a lot more rapid than C++, but bzflag is about 100k lines of code |
| 22:13.32 | JeffM2501 | not ours |
| 22:13.40 | BinarySpike | Ok! I know now that BZFlag can't run a server while bzfs can while to test things like CTF and custom flag location you need to start BZFlag from command line... (and specify your own config) so the problem is now settin g up a config file (so I'll be back) |
| 22:13.40 | purple_cow | reimplementation of that much functionality is a *huge* job |
| 22:13.44 | *** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (~BinarySpi@63.99.132.138) |
| 22:13.44 | JeffM2501 | the problem is the framework |
| 22:13.46 | purple_cow | probably at least a year and a half of work |
| 22:13.54 | purple_cow | just to get what we've already got |
| 22:13.59 | LordSarpedon | I wouldn't say it would be that much |
| 22:14.01 | JeffM2501 | I thnk you cold redo the framework in C++ in that time |
| 22:14.05 | JeffM2501 | maybe less cus you could reuse code |
| 22:14.15 | LordSarpedon | purple_cow: I had an implementation of the netcode in an afternoon |
| 22:14.23 | purple_cow | the netcode is dead simple |
| 22:14.36 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, then it should be no problem for you to have the rest done in a week |
| 22:14.47 | purple_cow | scanline implemented the protocol in python in 2 hours, but it took a couple months of both he & i working on pybzflag to get even just a basic engine |
| 22:15.03 | LordSarpedon | Yes, of course. Considering I can master SDL, OpenGL, and ALSA in that time |
| 22:15.13 | JeffM2501 | bigest problem with bzflag is noone knows what it is "suposed" to do |
| 22:15.21 | JeffM2501 | so new features step over other things |
| 22:15.26 | JeffM2501 | that happens in any language |
| 22:15.34 | bryjen | not ALSA. there's one off your list. faster faster |
| 22:15.35 | JeffM2501 | alsa? |
| 22:15.39 | JeffM2501 | windows dosn't use alsa |
| 22:15.53 | JeffM2501 | I'd expect you to be using direct sound on windows |
| 22:15.56 | LordSarpedon | Meh. Replace "alsa" with :"audio" |
| 22:15.57 | JeffM2501 | to get 3d sound suppot |
| 22:16.12 | JeffM2501 | that would be a feature |
| 22:16.37 | purple_cow | :P |
| 22:16.42 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, what do you do for a living if I may ask? |
| 22:16.44 | bryjen | purple_cow: at least not one with audio or video |
| 22:16.50 | cosmos | study hall jeff. |
| 22:16.54 | LordSarpedon | I have worked on a few large projects, but until now by myself and without any 3d :P |
| 22:17.13 | JeffM2501 | what ones? |
| 22:17.14 | bryjen | large one-man projects? |
| 22:17.15 | purple_cow | bryjen: that doesn't matter. any large software system is complex |
| 22:17.23 | bryjen | oxymoron |
| 22:17.36 | LordSarpedon | I can see that C# is not acceptable to you then |
| 22:17.43 | JeffM2501 | I mean I'm all for a require |
| 22:17.46 | purple_cow | LordSarpedon: that's not the issue :P |
| 22:17.49 | JeffM2501 | I just want to make sure it's done for the right reason |
| 22:17.54 | scanline | LordSarpedon: we already did a pretty good job with pybzflag showing that even if you reimplement bzflag in some other language people won't be interested in it :P |
| 22:17.56 | JeffM2501 | and witht he right goals |
| 22:18.00 | JeffM2501 | maybe C# is a good thing |
| 22:18.04 | LordSarpedon | But do you agree that the current implementation is beyond repair? |
| 22:18.12 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 22:18.19 | bryjen | perhaps, but that's not because its C++ |
| 22:18.24 | bryjen | its just a mess |
| 22:18.28 | JeffM2501 | noone has done the research on a better design |
| 22:18.29 | JeffM2501 | code wise |
| 22:18.38 | JeffM2501 | once you know what you want desging wise |
| 22:18.43 | JeffM2501 | you look at ALL the languages |
| 22:18.46 | JeffM2501 | and see what each offers |
| 22:18.52 | bryjen | we could likely create quite a similar mess in C# if not careful |
| 22:18.55 | purple_cow | we've made huge leaps in cleaning up the design with things like BZDB |
| 22:19.09 | JeffM2501 | and moved many things into managers |
| 22:19.18 | JeffM2501 | maybe it would be easyer to rework it |
| 22:19.24 | LordSarpedon | scanline, the point of a different language is, as far as I am concerned, to more easily add features |
| 22:19.29 | JeffM2501 | but when you don't have a target it's hard to estimage |
| 22:19.38 | purple_cow | language doesn't matter for that, design does |
| 22:19.43 | scanline | LordSarpedon: that doesn't really matter. some languages are easier to use than others, but the design is a totally separate problem |
| 22:19.58 | LordSarpedon | Yes, which is why it is important to start over |
| 22:20.05 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, I can make a C++ class that can do just about anyting that C# can do |
| 22:20.07 | scanline | LordSarpedon: at *least* look at what we did with pybzflag, that's pretty much the same road you're about to start down |
| 22:20.15 | JeffM2501 | cus what do you think the C# backend is MADE IN? |
| 22:20.42 | JeffM2501 | C# just ties nice design parts INTo the language itself |
| 22:20.55 | LordSarpedon | C# backend is made in C . So I assume you will write BZF in assembly as that is the backend of C ? |
| 22:21.01 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:21.10 | JeffM2501 | you pick a level of language that best fits what you want to do |
| 22:21.22 | LordSarpedon | In this case, features are the most important thing |
| 22:21.26 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:21.32 | JeffM2501 | end user experience is the most important thing |
| 22:21.33 | bryjen | starting over would get you a clean slate to rework the design, in _whatever_ language, and _that's_ what would make it easier to add features. |
| 22:21.45 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, you don't even know the requirements for bzflag |
| 22:21.57 | JeffM2501 | so how can you say "ease of features" ? |
| 22:22.04 | JeffM2501 | many features are turned down |
| 22:22.10 | JeffM2501 | not due to techincal issues |
| 22:22.16 | JeffM2501 | but because they just don't fit the design |
| 22:22.16 | CBG | I'm interested in making Maps, is there a tutorial or a good site I should check out? |
| 22:22.32 | bryjen | JeffM2501: what design? |
| 22:22.38 | LordSarpedon | Very well. I will leave it to you then |
| 22:22.39 | JeffM2501 | EXACTLY! |
| 22:22.49 | JeffM2501 | we arn't saying it's a bad Idea |
| 22:22.54 | JeffM2501 | and I'm sorry if we made you mad |
| 22:23.05 | JeffM2501 | we are just doing the devils advocate thing |
| 22:23.12 | JeffM2501 | any idea has to stand up to critisism |
| 22:23.24 | LordSarpedon | I have never seen such enthusiasm when playing the advocate |
| 22:23.45 | JeffM2501 | how many multi dev projects have you been on? |
| 22:23.48 | *** join/#bzflag BIYA (BIYA@dialup-4.129.81.230.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net) |
| 22:23.50 | LordSarpedon | None |
| 22:23.51 | JeffM2501 | I've seen worse wars over tab sizes |
| 22:23.58 | JeffM2501 | that's our point |
| 22:24.08 | purple_cow | LordSarpedon: it's just that we've heard this argument a lot, and it's almost always brought up by people who don't understand the issues involved |
| 22:24.10 | JeffM2501 | larger multi dev proejcts work a bit difrent |
| 22:24.22 | JeffM2501 | and they even tried it |
| 22:24.24 | JeffM2501 | with python |
| 22:24.29 | CBG | *** I'm interested in making Maps, is there a tutorial or a good site I should check out? &&& |
| 22:24.30 | JeffM2501 | got decently far too |
| 22:24.48 | BIYA | man pages? |
| 22:24.51 | JeffM2501 | CBG, we saww you the first time, not realy, there is wiki and bzbb |
| 22:25.11 | JeffM2501 | man pages are in wiki |
| 22:25.19 | CBG | JeffM, if you saw it, why didnt you say anything? :( btwL thnks |
| 22:25.28 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, what type of overall design were you going to do? |
| 22:25.30 | BIYA | I was just asking if thats considered a tutorial |
| 22:25.41 | bryjen | there's jpa-'s pages about the new 2.0 attributes |
| 22:25.46 | JeffM2501 | cus there isn't much CBG |
| 22:26.04 | BIYA | Do you think he should try bzedit jeff? |
| 22:26.05 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, how were you going to split up the game, sound, net, etc... ? |
| 22:26.05 | Mr_Molez | hgf teryyyyyyyyyyy |
| 22:26.17 | CBG | JeffM, you could have said "There isnt much but try:..." |
| 22:26.19 | JeffM2501 | BIYA, up to him |
| 22:26.20 | LordSarpedon | JEffM2501, my motivation for rewriting in C# is simply faster development and a cleaner framework (as any rewrite could potentially provide) |
| 22:26.34 | CBG | am I "Him" ? |
| 22:26.42 | JeffM2501 | then it's up to you? |
| 22:26.44 | BIYA | CBG try Bzedit |
| 22:26.50 | LordSarpedon | For my design, I was simply going to try to keep the components modular in the beginning |
| 22:26.56 | cosmos | you guys are wasting your time, ive already rewritten bzflag in perl. |
| 22:26.59 | CBG | BIYA: is that ok for Mac OS X? |
| 22:27.00 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, I don't think the C# .net framework had a 3d action game in mind? |
| 22:27.08 | JeffM2501 | there would need to be internal designs |
| 22:27.14 | JeffM2501 | what did you have in mind for those? |
| 22:27.21 | BIYA | Dunno jeff made it not me... I use it with windows |
| 22:27.25 | LordSarpedon | I was specifically referring to mono, for better interop |
| 22:27.40 | JeffM2501 | ther eis no visual editor for OSX other the pybzedit |
| 22:27.52 | JeffM2501 | interop with what? |
| 22:27.55 | BIYA | ack.... well pretty good... |
| 22:28.14 | CBG | so, should I or sould I not use bzedit on Mac OS X? |
| 22:28.21 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 22:28.23 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (~admin@ACCAA3E0.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:28.30 | CBG | ok. thnx |
| 22:28.31 | JeffM2501 | pybzedit maybe |
| 22:28.33 | purple_cow | LordSarpedon: the platform doesn't matter at all. it's a very difficult problem to come up with a great design for something the size and scope of bzflag |
| 22:28.35 | BIYA | CBG: Google for MAC pybzedit I guess |
| 22:28.35 | LordSarpedon | As in modular, i refer to having network, 3d, and game logic much more clearly defined than now. Of course, efforts have been made in that area, but I mean to the point of being able to re-implement one without affecting the other |
| 22:28.36 | JeffM2501 | but we didnt' make that |
| 22:28.45 | CBG | ok. :D thnaks |
| 22:29.04 | BIYA | np |
| 22:29.11 | LordSarpedon | Much of the problem lies in the architecture of the current code, I agree, and this could be done in Cpp, I agree |
| 22:29.12 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, you can do that with a DLL |
| 22:29.15 | JeffM2501 | or a .so |
| 22:29.22 | JeffM2501 | or just simple smart class design |
| 22:29.24 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:30.02 | LordSarpedon | I would have the Game class contain instances of the other classes, and the game class to be inherited into Client and Server classes |
| 22:30.20 | JeffM2501 | have you maped it all out? |
| 22:30.23 | LordSarpedon | The instance of whatever game class would be a global, so not to have to pass refeences around all too much |
| 22:30.26 | JeffM2501 | cus that's what would need to happen first |
| 22:30.35 | purple_cow | slow down there :P |
| 22:30.49 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, what if the server wants to run more then one game type? like in a set of rooms? |
| 22:30.54 | purple_cow | you're already getting into implementation details |
| 22:30.56 | LordSarpedon | JeffM2501, in this case it is mostly obvious. I could work together a diagram if you wish, but only in the next few days |
| 22:31.13 | LordSarpedon | Jeffm2501, that would be an easy task if the classes were to be kept distinct as I said |
| 22:31.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah don't think abou implemenations |
| 22:31.25 | JeffM2501 | but you said global and 'refrence" |
| 22:31.37 | JeffM2501 | global indicates 1 |
| 22:31.42 | BIYA | ~bzfquery dtremenak.bakadigital.com:6001 |
| 22:31.49 | BIYA | aw |
| 22:32.06 | JeffM2501 | everyone's gone off to play the mesh based lighthouse map |
| 22:32.26 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, the first part of a design is a buch of boxes with words and lines :) |
| 22:32.27 | BIYA | Louman's? |
| 22:32.28 | LordSarpedon | Jeffm2501, if I was not clear, I meant to have the game as a singleton, so that be it client or server any other class could for example use "Game.Net.sendSuperKill |
| 22:32.46 | JeffM2501 | LordSarpedon, again what if the server wants more then one game? |
| 22:32.46 | cosmos | ~bzfquery quake.bzflag.org |
| 22:32.50 | LordSarpedon | Yes, I will certainly draw one up. |
| 22:33.12 | bryjen | ~bzfquery bzflag.norang.ca:5156 |
| 22:33.13 | LordSarpedon | Jeffm2501, that would be more difficult to implement since that changes a criticial part of design |
| 22:33.47 | purple_cow | i think the point JeffM2501 is trying to make is that there are things which will trip you up if your requirements aren't well specified when you start in |
| 22:33.48 | LordSarpedon | But ultimately, you could do that by having different game instances |
| 22:34.01 | LordSarpedon | Which would void the idea of a singleton game |
| 22:34.21 | purple_cow | and requirements in this case are hard, since everyone has a different idea of what should happen |
| 22:34.35 | LordSarpedon | However, by having an array of Game objects from initial implementation, such a room concept would work beautifully. Except, of course, most of the time the array would be 1 long |
| 22:34.36 | bryjen | they playability of the island hopping map is yet to be seen. |
| 22:35.08 | LordSarpedon | Well of course the requirements must be made known from the beginning |
| 22:35.46 | LordSarpedon | Those would simply be the existing features plus whatever requirements we are shooting for, particularly the ones that the original bzf didn't or couldnt provide |
| 22:36.06 | BIYA | uhh oh :) |
| 22:36.12 | purple_cow | maybe not all the existing features are good ones? :P |
| 22:36.31 | LordSarpedon | It is easier to remove than add, purple_cow |
| 22:36.37 | purple_cow | LordSarpedon: if you're starting over, it doesn't matter |
| 22:37.01 | purple_cow | and which features you're shooting for affects how you design |
| 22:37.38 | LordSarpedon | Now note that I have concluded that the bzf community in general is against a C# implementation fro valid reasons, but this is all relevant to an implementation in any language. it is simply that I was thinking along the lines of my abilities |
| 22:37.47 | LordSarpedon | Yes, purple_cow |
| 22:38.04 | LordSarpedon | I agree intentions must be first made clear |
| 22:38.10 | purple_cow | LordSarpedon: i think you'll find that it's not that the community is against any particular language or platform (though there are considerations such as portability) |
| 22:38.35 | purple_cow | imho, the major problem here is that there have been *several* attempts at rewrites, and none have succeeded |
| 22:38.49 | purple_cow | so unless you have some magical way to organize everyone, there's going to be resistance to the idea |
| 22:38.54 | LordSarpedon | Why, in your opinion, not? |
| 22:39.00 | purple_cow | because it's a huge job |
| 22:39.18 | LordSarpedon | Granted |
| 22:39.59 | purple_cow | far more than possible for a single person, and large enough to be very difficult even with a well organized, motivated team |
| 22:40.55 | LordSarpedon | A higher-level language would allow more to be done with less people, however it is true it is a large task regardless |
| 22:41.21 | purple_cow | language has very little bearing on it |
| 22:41.57 | purple_cow | it may make some things a little easier, but reimplementing 125k lines of code and holding up to 13 years of user expectations is a very nontrivial task |
| 22:42.04 | scanline | LordSarpedon: purple_cow and I tried it in Python, JeffM2501 tried it a couple times with various existing game engines, all of that has failed so far. Why won't yours fail? |
| 22:42.26 | LordSarpedon | I can't say it wont |
| 22:42.38 | LordSarpedon | In fact, there is a good chance it will never get off the ground |
| 22:42.46 | scanline | well, why would you expect it to have a better chance? |
| 22:42.52 | LordSarpedon | But it is obvious that there is a need |
| 22:43.11 | *** join/#bzflag DeathBarrel (~DeathBarr@adsl-70-240-102-172.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:43.11 | scanline | pybzflag got really far actually, and was looking quite spiffy- but it still didn't gain any real interest from others |
| 22:43.24 | scanline | the *only* thing that has really worked for bzflag so far is incremental improvement |
| 22:43.28 | LordSarpedon | Better chance? Likely not. As you say scanline, there is a lack of interest |
| 22:43.32 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp]_ (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:43.57 | scanline | I'm saying that even if you do magically finish a rewrite of bzflag, I'm not sure there will be people using it or developing on it |
| 22:44.03 | purple_cow | so then what reason do we have to spend time and energy doing it? |
| 22:44.20 | LordSarpedon | Simply because the end result could potentially be something better |
| 22:44.41 | LordSarpedon | That's the point isn;t it? Soemthing enjoyable as possible? |
| 22:45.03 | purple_cow | i think you're going to need to find a more concrete reason than that if you want to get people to commit thousands of man-hours to it |
| 22:45.04 | scanline | if you're going to write a game from scratch anyway, why try to rewrite bzflag? |
| 22:45.20 | scanline | we can already play bzflag |
| 22:45.39 | scanline | a rewrite might make it easier to develop, but it won't make it any more fun |
| 22:45.53 | scanline | if you want to pour tons of effort into writing a game, come up with something fun that we can't already play |
| 22:46.18 | scanline | it's a game, remember? not a framework, or an OS, or whatever |
| 22:47.00 | LordSarpedon | Alright then. My concrete reason? By making it easier to develop more features can be added. There are many requested features already, many of which can't be implemented with out changing most of what is there already (3d rather than 2d gameplay for instance) |
| 22:47.45 | LordSarpedon | If it was as easy to develop for as it should be, we wouldnt be playing a modified 14 year old game. We'd be playing something that is changing in a more noticable way |
| 22:47.49 | scanline | why not just write a new game if you want such drastic changes? there's a reason most game developers release sequels of games rather than trying to pass off a rewrite as the same game |
| 22:49.26 | LordSarpedon | Besides just lacking netcode, lack of 3d game play, and severe shortage of gametypes, the current implementation of this basic concept isn't looking as if it is about to get better |
| 22:49.39 | *** part/#bzflag CBG (~CannonBal@cpc3-stme1-5-0-cust91.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:49.59 | scanline | I'm just saying that IMHO all these people trying to rewrite bzflag are just game developers that are too lazy to come up with their own ideas |
| 22:50.05 | LordSarpedon | scanline, the point is to have a new game. However, a seuel retains the basic concept |
| 22:50.08 | Chestal | LordSarpedon: there are significant fractions of the user community who appreciate bzfalg for what it is, any major change in gameplay would not be honored by them at all |
| 22:50.29 | LordSarpedon | perhaps the existing community is not all that matters. |
| 22:50.30 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego|Desk@adsl-68-77-20-189.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 22:50.34 | Chestal | once the changes are big enough, it is actualyl a new game |
| 22:50.44 | Chestal | LordSarpedon: then you have a new game |
| 22:50.54 | scanline | LordSarpedon: if you don't care about the community, the code, or the existing gameplay.. why bother even pretending that it's based on bzflag? |
| 22:51.26 | cosmos | heh |
| 22:51.41 | Chestal | I'd love to see a mono/C# 3D networkign game, would be interesting |
| 22:52.13 | Chestal | but I don't see that bzflag would be that game |
| 22:52.35 | Chestal | why don't you writ up a prototype as prrof of concept |
| 22:52.42 | LordSarpedon | Alright then. I presented my case. So good luck to you all. You seem confident enough in this current implementation... |
| 22:52.44 | scanline | Chestal: http://www.axiom3d.org/ |
| 22:52.47 | Legoguy | I don't know why, but I just started getting "Couldn't open audio: No available audio device" - and I didn't do anything to cause that. Except for possibly an ALSA lib upgrade... but i dunno... |
| 22:52.50 | Chestal | if that wors, dumpmost of it and work on the real thing |
| 22:52.55 | Chestal | any other approach is goign to fail anyway |
| 22:52.57 | scanline | LordSarpedon: that's not what we were saying at all |
| 22:53.25 | LordSarpedon | I would, chestal, but that is not soemthing I can do alone. |
| 22:53.44 | LordSarpedon | I am much too inexperienced with the 3d aspect to have a prototype |
| 22:53.53 | Legoguy | psst. as long as it's multiplatform ;) |
| 22:54.04 | scanline | there are *already* 3D engines in C#.. you don't have to prove any concept |
| 22:54.06 | scanline | just write a game |
| 22:54.10 | JeffM2501 | I prety much define my life by constantly rewriting bzflag in the engine of the week :) |
| 22:54.20 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: hehehe |
| 22:54.25 | scanline | :) |
| 22:56.44 | cosmos | sheesh |
| 22:58.18 | brlcad | cheese? |
| 22:58.23 | JeffM2501 | one day I shall finsih it |
| 22:58.28 | JeffM2501 | and it shall be glorious |
| 22:58.33 | JeffM2501 | my magnum opus |
| 22:59.25 | Legoguy | so, does anyone know of any common causes of "could not open audio device" that may occur some what randomly? |
| 22:59.56 | Legoguy | i already tried recompiling bzflag with the new alsa-lib |
| 22:59.59 | Legoguy | no go |
| 23:00.28 | Legoguy | i mean, it compiled fine but still no sound |
| 23:01.51 | Legoguy | oh wait, maybe it's SDL that needs recompiling... heh |
| 23:04.00 | *** join/#bzflag Noodle-sensei (~tuckerm@12-210-73-82.client.insightBB.com) |
| 23:08.31 | Legoguy | aha yep that did it. needed to recompile sdl |
| 23:11.50 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (~admin@ACCAA3E0.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:15.34 | *** join/#bzflag LordSarpedon (~46f0e280@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:18.43 | *** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (~BinarySpi@63.99.132.138) |
| 23:36.04 | LordSarpedon | So quiet |
| 23:36.09 | *** join/#bzflag bzeagle (~eagle@va-purceville1c-125.chvlva.adelphia.net) |
| 23:41.02 | JeffM2501 | the way is shut |
| 23:41.09 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:41.09 | JeffM2501 | it was made by those who are dead |
| 23:42.16 | bzeagle | what? |
| 23:42.56 | JeffM2501 | well it was |
| 23:43.24 | bzeagle | what are you talking about? |
| 23:43.35 | LordSarpedon | Interesting... |
| 23:43.47 | JeffM2501 | the deepest and darkest magics |
| 23:44.21 | bzeagle | ?? |
| 23:44.51 | JeffM2501 | you know, chickens and dancing in the light of a full moon |
| 23:45.12 | bzeagle | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:45.15 | shorty114 | bzeagle: i think it's a song... |
| 23:45.23 | bzeagle | oh |
| 23:45.34 | JeffM2501 | do you now? |
| 23:45.37 | JeffM2501 | sad sad day indeed |
| 23:45.42 | shorty114 | either that or a poem.. |
| 23:46.02 | JeffM2501 | don't get out to see films |
| 23:46.05 | JeffM2501 | do ya> |
| 23:46.14 | shorty114 | what movie? |
| 23:46.20 | shorty114 | i went and saw the ring 2... |
| 23:46.28 | bzeagle | oo |
| 23:46.33 | JeffM2501 | way better then that anime redux |
| 23:46.35 | bzeagle | no |
| 23:46.44 | bzeagle | oh i mean yeah |
| 23:46.58 | shorty114 | there was an anime ring 2? |
| 23:47.10 | JeffM2501 | where do you think the movie came from? |
| 23:47.15 | JeffM2501 | that and the manga |
| 23:47.19 | JeffM2501 | and the movie in japan |
| 23:47.20 | shorty114 | oh |
| 23:47.22 | JeffM2501 | etc... ect... |
| 23:47.23 | spldart | JeffM> Is the games physics code relatively seperated from the rendering code? |
| 23:47.24 | shorty114 | The Grudge? |
| 23:47.33 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 23:47.43 | JeffM2501 | a movie and book of epic proprtion |
| 23:47.52 | bzeagle | nvm i have no idea what you are talking about |
| 23:47.55 | shorty114 | hmm |
| 23:48.01 | LordSarpedon | spldart: thers a physicsmgr class |
| 23:48.17 | spldart | ah sweet |
| 23:48.45 | bzeagle | isnt this supposed to be a bzflag channel? |
| 23:49.04 | spldart | Source code is available right? |
| 23:49.05 | cosmos | dont get your panties in a bunch |
| 23:49.18 | bzeagle | later all |
| 23:50.28 | LordSarpedon | spldart: yes |
| 23:50.29 | spldart | What is the build environment and what kind of compiler? |
| 23:50.37 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is a deep magic |
| 23:50.52 | spldart | ? |
| 23:51.12 | LordSarpedon | Jeffm2501, are mushrooms involved? |
| 23:51.26 | bryjen | something's getting deep |
| 23:51.26 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 23:52.12 | LordSarpedon | Heh |
| 23:52.13 | spldart | Are you all technomages |
| 23:53.07 | LordSarpedon | No, by majority vote by the Senate I am officially a techno-techie |
| 23:54.04 | spldart | How would I build on windows |
| 23:54.52 | LordSarpedon | Get the mingw stuff |
| 23:55.35 | bryjen | or microsoft's visual c or studio or whatever its called |
| 23:56.13 | LordSarpedon | Need to get a copy of that. Would make dabbling with this source much easier. Called Visual C , bryjen |
| 23:56.15 | JeffM2501 | what are you trying to build? |
| 23:56.33 | LordSarpedon | hes trying to build bzf |
| 23:56.40 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 23:56.50 | spldart | I want to tamper with bz |
| 23:56.53 | spldart | ;) |
| 23:57.04 | JeffM2501 | don't we all |
| 23:57.06 | LordSarpedon | I said the same several days ago. And look where that went? |
| 23:57.30 | spldart | microsoft visual c is expensive |
| 23:57.38 | LordSarpedon | only $109 |
| 23:57.47 | shorty114 | spldart: are you a student? |
| 23:57.54 | spldart | no |
| 23:57.55 | LordSarpedon | About $89 on amazon |
| 23:58.13 | shorty114 | spldart: oh. too bad. you can usually get a education discount if you were. |
| 23:58.56 | spldart | Can I use gcc? |
| 23:59.17 | JeffM2501 | mingw is gcc on windows |
| 23:59.31 | JeffM2501 | there is a free vc2k5 express beta |
| 23:59.39 | JeffM2501 | tho dono if bz builds with it |
| 23:59.55 | spldart | I'm not trying to make a cheater client but would like to toy around with the game physics and poke around the bzfs server. |
