| 00:04.15 | DTRemenak | do we want ProFont to be the default? |
| 00:04.56 | DTRemenak | learner, TimRiker? |
| 00:06.03 | *** join/#bzflag bz7130 (~42513c1f@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:07.36 | learner | i'm not strongly attached to any of the fonts |
| 00:07.56 | learner | i'd say let the users vote, but they haven't seen them yet |
| 00:08.35 | amathis | learner: is there a FAQ on bz development,such as how to create your own flags and what files to edit... etc. |
| 00:09.06 | learner | amathis, no there is not |
| 00:09.17 | learner | amathis, closest will be the DEVINFO file |
| 00:09.22 | learner | and the sources themselves |
| 00:09.38 | Chestal | btw., why was the lag flag removed? Not that I really want it back, just curious? |
| 00:09.41 | learner | there are readme's in various directories that try to explain what is in that directory |
| 00:09.56 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/HUDRenderer.cxx: reserve the upper four values of TimeLeft (~0u-3 to ~0u) for future use as flags. Probably more than we need, but better safe than sorry. |
| 00:10.24 | learner | Chestal, MBFG was saying that he saw no effect |
| 00:10.38 | learner | course he's on a laggy modem already.. |
| 00:10.44 | learner | but treppers removed anyways |
| 00:10.44 | DTRemenak | Chestal: it seemed to be broken, and noone was particularly attached to it anyway |
| 00:10.44 | blast007 | heh |
| 00:10.58 | DTRemenak | learner: I never saw any affect from it either |
| 00:11.05 | Chestal | an anti-lag flag would be more useful ;- |
| 00:11.05 | learner | ahh, k |
| 00:11.10 | learner | heh |
| 00:11.16 | DTRemenak | ~chestal++ :) |
| 00:11.26 | learner | mm.. that makes me think of a ghost flag for some reason |
| 00:11.30 | learner | like xpilot's |
| 00:11.42 | Chestal | what does it do? |
| 00:11.55 | learner | remember total recall? |
| 00:12.02 | Chestal | somewhat |
| 00:12.03 | learner | when he made a mirror of himself |
| 00:12.07 | learner | in the factory |
| 00:12.10 | Chestal | yes |
| 00:12.21 | learner | and they all started shooting at it.. but it was just a mirage that mirrored his movements |
| 00:12.42 | learner | flickers when you shoot it or go through it.. otherwise looks real |
| 00:13.19 | learner | Mirage Flag |
| 00:13.46 | Chestal | where should ghost be at? |
| 00:14.17 | learner | probably mirror your left/right, but keep your forward/backword trajectory |
| 00:14.44 | learner | so you turn left, he turns right.. drive forward, you both drive forward |
| 00:16.28 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 00:17.08 | Chestal | learner: are you familair with the tabs a bit? the coloring is confusing |
| 00:18.53 | learner | slightly familiar with it |
| 00:19.07 | learner | coloring was added recently, though (not by me) |
| 00:19.19 | learner | I don't quite get the red on the last tab on startup |
| 00:19.39 | Chestal | is red meant to indicate unread msgs on that tab? |
| 00:21.34 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-169-164.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:21.36 | learner | that's what I thought.. but then I switched and switched back.. still red |
| 00:22.19 | Thumper_ | how about dumb autopilot... |
| 00:22.19 | *** join/#bzflag sommertimer3 (rOQ7D5mN@pool-70-23-14-119.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:22.24 | Chestal | learner: what I noticed is that the non-active tabs only turned red whiel I was watching the all tab, I wuld have expected the opposite |
| 00:22.24 | Thumper_ | ie one that doesn't shoot |
| 00:23.56 | learner | Chestal, quite true -- if you've seen the message, it shouldn't light up |
| 00:24.02 | Chestal | my computer is still too slow |
| 00:28.22 | learner | hrm |
| 00:29.03 | learner | ControlPanel.cxx:693 should prevent it from coloring the other panels.. |
| 00:29.28 | learner | since MessageAll is mode 0 (MessageChat - 1) |
| 00:30.06 | learner | colored red at ControlPanel.cxx:333 |
| 00:31.39 | Chestal | no, mode here is the mode of the message |
| 00:31.56 | learner | oh.. |
| 00:32.58 | learner | got it |
| 00:34.17 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ControlPanel.cxx: if the current message panel is All, don't mark the others as unread |
| 00:37.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: addition of profont font |
| 00:37.46 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63) |
| 00:40.25 | learner | howdy tupone |
| 00:40.31 | Tupone | hey |
| 00:40.36 | learner | almost time.. |
| 00:40.41 | Tupone | early for a suturday |
| 00:40.48 | Tupone | :) saturday |
| 00:41.01 | Tupone | time for release ? |
| 00:41.08 | DTRemenak | :) |
| 00:41.24 | learner | :) |
| 00:41.48 | Tupone | DTRemenak: did you check the think I say: select waveout as a driver for sound? |
| 00:42.41 | Tupone | Why Tim is removing the docgen construct? Docgen has changed? |
| 00:42.55 | DTRemenak | Tupone: by the time I remembered to, the protocol had changed |
| 00:43.44 | *** join/#bzflag MaximumPower (~MaximumPo@user-12l2mod.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:43.50 | learner | yay |
| 00:44.08 | DTRemenak | it will take a while, mingw is slow |
| 00:44.59 | learner | i haven't seen anyone removing doxygen comments .. |
| 00:45.10 | learner | perhaps just an oversight |
| 00:46.52 | learner | that would have been fine |
| 00:47.14 | learner | ~ww |
| 00:47.15 | ibot | Was the window wrong or are you wrong? |
| 00:47.20 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 00:48.06 | Tupone | TimRiker: could you revert doxygen uncommentification on NetHandler.h ? Or you just did on purpose? |
| 00:48.40 | learner | hehe.. uncommentification sounds like something Id say |
| 00:48.57 | Tupone | yeah, I'm learning learner |
| 00:49.33 | learner | just don't take the TOESL test afterwards :) |
| 00:50.35 | Tupone | TOESL? what is that? |
| 00:50.44 | learner | KeyManager.cxx:127: error: `countof' undeclared (first use this function) |
| 00:51.09 | learner | er, TOEFL |
| 00:51.27 | learner | guu: http://www.ets.org/toefl/ |
| 00:51.28 | guu | Bugger all, I dunno! |
| 00:51.31 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/Makefile.am: tools dir gets dist'ed |
| 00:51.32 | Tupone | dark the same |
| 00:52.22 | Tupone | You did that? It says learner & .... |
| 00:52.55 | learner | ibot: TOEFL is the Test of English as a Foreign Language -- see http://www.ets.org/toefl/ |
| 00:52.56 | ibot | okay, learner |
| 00:53.16 | learner | i did? |
| 00:53.17 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/KeyManager.cxx: common.h comes first |
| 00:53.24 | DTRemenak | learner: try that |
| 00:53.26 | learner | k |
| 00:54.00 | learner | ooooooh.. shoot |
| 00:54.17 | DTRemenak | ~bzfrag learner |
| 00:54.19 | ibot | ACTION destroys learner with a guided missle |
| 00:54.20 | learner | i have like half of include/ half-edited with common.h removed |
| 00:54.44 | DTRemenak | don't lose your logging stuff! ;) |
| 00:54.58 | Tupone | loose your logging stuff :) |
| 00:55.08 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.client.comcast.net) |
| 00:55.09 | learner | hehe |
| 00:55.17 | learner | that's in another safe place |
| 00:55.23 | Tupone | nooo |
| 00:55.35 | learner | already lost a piece of quenching cause of that, though.. |
| 00:55.41 | DTRemenak | whoops |
| 00:55.45 | Tupone | I prefer you work on tactical overlay |
| 00:55.54 | learner | it was a part i was going to rewrite anyways |
| 00:56.04 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 00:56.18 | shorty114 | who's TyroneFHornigh? |
| 00:56.20 | DTRemenak | so that's why you never commit that stuff...just keep writing, rewriting... ;) |
| 00:57.28 | TimRiker | Tupone: ah... I wondered why they were like that. it won't pickup the // style? |
| 00:58.04 | learner | TimRiker, doxygen will pick up on the starting /**, /*!, and /// |
| 00:58.28 | learner | internal *'s are optional |
| 00:58.47 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/ (net/Address.cxx game/NetHandler.cxx): Address::isPrivate() |
| 00:59.10 | TimRiker | ah, /// ? Tupone that one ok with you? |
| 00:59.44 | learner | i'm not sure how it will treat a block of ///'s |
| 00:59.47 | Tupone | if is ok with doxygen, is ok with me. Dunno the doxygen details, or docgen, whatever is |
| 00:59.50 | learner | usually that's for one-liners |
| 01:00.22 | learner | looks like it will |
| 01:00.22 | learner | http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/docblocks.html |
| 01:00.51 | learner | ahh //! too |
| 01:01.12 | learner | (/*! comes from qt, iirc) |
| 01:01.49 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-167-2-92.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 01:06.30 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/include/NetHandler.h: re-deoxification |
| 01:06.34 | Crko | where can i get 1.10 for solaris? |
| 01:06.38 | Tupone | DTRemenak: don't need to include common.h in cxx file if that file has its proper header. If you look at KeyManager.h its first include is common.h |
| 01:07.01 | DTRemenak | Tupone: see DEVINFO |
| 01:07.14 | bryjen | Address.cxx:111: error: no `bool Address::isPrivate() const' member function declared in class `Address' |
| 01:07.25 | Tupone | You wrote it :) I do not agree on some part |
| 01:07.33 | DTRemenak | I did not write it |
| 01:07.39 | DTRemenak | just moved some things around |
| 01:08.42 | learner | Crko, in a couple hours 1.10 will be obsolete |
| 01:08.49 | TimRiker | Crko: google shows http://www.solaris4you.dk/actionSS.html |
| 01:09.10 | TimRiker | Crko: never used those images though. |
| 01:09.15 | wegstar | ? |
| 01:09.24 | trepan | learner: i'll believe it when i see it =) |
| 01:09.27 | DTRemenak | does automake have some problem with - in directory names? |
| 01:09.35 | learner | that header section in dev info was touched by me I believe.. but not worded quite right |
| 01:09.52 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.158.156.68.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 01:10.00 | trepan | TimRiker: partial commit on ::isPrivate? |
| 01:10.00 | learner | DTRemenak, but that was my problem.. common.h's got me going again.. now the isPrivate error |
| 01:10.26 | Tupone | I fix it, DEVINFO I mean |
| 01:10.48 | TimRiker | trepan: meaning I'm not yet using it? right. should work though. |
| 01:11.05 | TimRiker | Crko: hmm. looks like that page does not offer binaries. |
| 01:11.13 | Crko | TimRiker, yes |
| 01:11.19 | trepan | TimRiker: meaning you forgot to commit the header changes? |
| 01:11.33 | TimRiker | hmm. don't think so... |
| 01:11.37 | learner | I have the same error as bryjen right now too |
| 01:12.11 | learner | ahh, and quite true.. no isPrivate in Address.h |
| 01:12.14 | trepan | there's no isPrivate in Address.h |
| 01:12.27 | trepan | learner: ditto ;) |
| 01:12.30 | TimRiker | ah... yep. |
| 01:12.46 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/include/Address.h: Address::isPrivate() |
| 01:12.54 | TimRiker | type on the commit line... |
| 01:13.05 | trepan | TimRiker: been there, done that |
| 01:13.05 | TimRiker | fixed. sorry |
| 01:13.16 | learner | i never do that |
| 01:13.18 | learner | *cough* |
| 01:13.27 | JeffM2501 | whoot the map is up to 861k :) |
| 01:13.38 | trepan | JeffM2501: grouping can help with that |
| 01:13.39 | learner | don't take minutes :) |
| 01:14.02 | JeffM2501 | nevva! |
| 01:14.02 | trepan | JeffM2501: what's its compressed size? |
| 01:14.03 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 01:14.35 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/DEVINFO: Fix headers order on cxx file |
| 01:14.41 | trepan | bzfs -d should tell ya if you're interested |
| 01:15.39 | trepan | that trees and rocks map is about 32K compressed, but I doubt it's as pretty as whatever you're up to |
| 01:16.36 | *** part/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102c6bd1e-CM400045980376.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:17.11 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-023-230.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:17.35 | lan56 | hmm, I oughta add a screenshot or logo or some image on the wikipedia.org entry of bzflag |
| 01:18.59 | JeffM2501 | trepan: join and see :) |
| 01:20.33 | learner | lan56, logo in data would be cool |
| 01:20.56 | trepan | JeffM2501: where? and will i need any extra textures? |
| 01:21.17 | JeffM2501 | sasami.bakadigital.com is the server |
| 01:21.20 | JeffM2501 | http://www.opencombat.net/~jeffm/textures.zip |
| 01:21.25 | JeffM2501 | for the textures |
| 01:21.29 | trepan | not public? |
| 01:21.39 | JeffM2501 | it should be |
| 01:21.55 | trepan | server protocol? |
| 01:22.01 | lan56 | learner: that's what I thought, adding the logo. should it be the new one, or old? I think the old one would be better as it would be easy to read to new folks learning about bzflag, but that's just me |
| 01:22.02 | JeffM2501 | ahh probably the old one |
| 01:22.05 | JeffM2501 | haven't rebuilt |
| 01:22.11 | JeffM2501 | it's 37 |
| 01:22.24 | lan56 | learner: as in, old being the 1.10 and before one, and new being the new one for 2.0 |
| 01:22.58 | trepan | JeffM2501: ah, that would be the prob |
| 01:23.08 | JeffM2501 | should I rebuild? |
| 01:23.13 | trepan | why not? |
| 01:23.20 | trepan | ... laziness? =) |
| 01:23.25 | JeffM2501 | just takes time |
| 01:23.29 | JeffM2501 | probalby should |
| 01:23.33 | JeffM2501 | and go get clean |
| 01:24.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/ (TODO src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx): no @ip on checktokens for private IPs |
| 01:25.06 | Aribeth | trepan, I have 5-6 seconds lag on your server |
| 01:25.14 | JeffM2501 | is there a way to set the tolerance for what is "flat"? |
| 01:25.16 | trepan | Aribeth: on startup? |
| 01:25.34 | Aribeth | when trying to enter a map |
| 01:25.34 | trepan | JeffM2501: how do you mean? |
| 01:25.46 | JeffM2501 | you can't "drive" on things that arn't flat |
| 01:25.53 | trepan | Aribeth: ya, it's a fairly big one, takes a fair amount of initial processing |
| 01:25.57 | JeffM2501 | aka normal = Z+ |
| 01:26.16 | Aribeth | prob tooo much for my 1.2 ghz laptop |
| 01:26.17 | JeffM2501 | so when landing on a mesh, if it's not quite flat your like your on a pyramid |
| 01:26.22 | trepan | JeffM2501: nope, you've just got to make 'em flat |
| 01:26.52 | JeffM2501 | hard when transformations can knock them off by a bit |
| 01:27.00 | JeffM2501 | what does it test? |
| 01:27.03 | trepan | JeffM2501: clean 'em up after the fact |
| 01:27.05 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/KeyManager.cxx: my bad, back to what it was since interface includes it |
| 01:27.29 | trepan | it's test the plane normal derived from the vertices |
| 01:27.34 | trepan | s/test/tests |
| 01:27.51 | trepan | hell, s/it's/it |
| 01:28.32 | trepan | Aribeth: i get about 3/4 sec initial processing time too |
| 01:29.04 | Aribeth | i have 5-6 seconds on all your maps lately |
| 01:29.13 | amathis | gonkulator: ping |
| 01:29.20 | trepan | Aribeth: even atlantis? |
| 01:29.52 | wizart | what about a two second wait before you can rejoin ? |
| 01:30.14 | trepan | wizart: /set _rejoinTime XXX |
| 01:30.15 | learner | Tupone, much better wording ;) |
| 01:30.17 | Aribeth | atlantis runs ok, and its fine on other servers |
| 01:30.24 | wizart | trepan, ah sweet. |
| 01:30.30 | TimRiker | wizart: or load a big map. (jk) |
| 01:30.36 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 01:30.58 | wizart | hehe. the idea is to give others a chance to join when someone tries to rejoin. |
| 01:31.12 | wizart | Loading a big map would be for both. |
| 01:31.25 | trepan | wizart: the original idea was to block rejoining idiots |
| 01:31.41 | wizart | It should help there. |
| 01:31.45 | orchid | a queue would be neat, autojoined observers |
| 01:32.00 | orchid | (for another release of course) |
| 01:32.06 | wizart | yea. |
| 01:32.13 | DTRemenak | iirc observers are immune from the rejoin timer |
| 01:32.14 | wizart | all stuff for an other release :) |
| 01:32.41 | learner | that reminds me.. shouldn't penalize a rejoiner if nobody else is on |
| 01:32.53 | wizart | hmm why not ? |
| 01:32.57 | trepan | learner: already done |
| 01:33.03 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 01:33.07 | wizart | ah map change |
| 01:33.19 | trepan | learner: think it was Tegan that brought that to our attention |
| 01:33.29 | learner | ahh, k ;) |
| 01:33.34 | learner | ~tegan++ |
| 01:33.59 | trepan | learner: it should also handle observers somewhat correctly |
| 01:34.08 | wizart | teg |
| 01:34.43 | trepan | what's this privateip stuff about anyways? |
| 01:37.37 | Tupone | as listserver is contacted on any joins, it should not from private lan. Well at least this is what I understand. |
| 01:37.51 | Tupone | Now I don't know what happen if you're natted |
| 01:38.11 | TimRiker | trepan: Chestal and I added a central login feature. |
| 01:38.23 | TimRiker | the list server caches the IP that you asked for the token from, |
| 01:38.40 | TimRiker | and bzfs sends the IP that you are trying to verify from. |
| 01:38.53 | TimRiker | is they don't match, the list server denies the token. |
| 01:39.46 | TimRiker | this works well in most cases. but when you are playing _on_ the server, your IP is likely localhost to it instead of the one db saw. |
| 01:39.53 | TimRiker | so you can't get logged in. |
| 01:40.04 | trepan | ah, gotcha |
| 01:40.15 | TimRiker | the change I made is to detect private IPs and not pass them to the list server. |
| 01:40.22 | trepan | is the IP verification a recent addition? |
| 01:40.39 | TimRiker | I probably could have made the change on the list server itself, but bzfs seems the Right place for it. |
| 01:40.48 | TimRiker | yes, just the last few days. |
| 01:40.57 | jifl | change of subject: anyone know where there's a description of the various openGL texture modes and what they mean (as in quality vs. speed)? Such as linear mipmap nearest etc. |
| 01:41.05 | TimRiker | hmm. yesterday in fact iirc. |
| 01:42.04 | trepan | jifl: opengl.org , look in the doc section |
| 01:42.10 | jifl | thanks |
| 01:42.17 | jifl | i will |
| 01:42.59 | TimRiker | hmm. testing is a moving target these days... /me waits for his ppc to build a new client too. |
| 01:43.01 | Tupone | distcheck works on linux |
| 01:43.42 | TimRiker | trepan: the reason for the ip validation is to prevent token stealing by cracker admins. |
| 01:44.04 | TimRiker | they are single use, and expire, but this is even tighter. |
| 01:44.11 | trepan | TimRiker: kudos, the ip verification i like |
| 01:44.27 | trepan | TimRiker: closes the hole that i mentionned oh so long ago |
| 01:45.53 | TimRiker | trepan: are you local to your servers? ie: have you been having central auth issues in the last 24 hours? |
| 01:46.27 | trepan | i connect to my servers through the public ip |
| 01:47.05 | *** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com) |
| 01:47.08 | TimRiker | I tried that, but the linux box replies from the local lan IP, not the one I requested. it does not nat me to itself. |
| 01:47.16 | trepan | (it's the reason they're public, easy access) |
| 01:47.55 | trepan | TimRiker: then again, i haven't been all the observant of late, it's possible i've been having auth problems |
| 01:48.01 | TimRiker | ie: I request the public IP, and get it, but that same box is the one that should NAT me, and it does not so it sees my internal IP. |
| 01:48.48 | TimRiker | there is a linux kernel switch to NAT local connections, that might fix it for me, but this will work for others including localhost connections. |
| 01:50.18 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: you just checking it? I can run it on my build box quickly. |
| 01:50.23 | DTRemenak | fixing it |
| 01:50.38 | DTRemenak | whoever did the makefiles in the tools directory didn't do a very good job of it |
| 01:52.15 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/tools/ (4 files in 4 dirs): step one of fixing up make distcheck |
| 01:52.15 | TimRiker | bzflag-1.11.40.20050116.tar.gz is ready for distribution |
| 01:52.15 | TimRiker | ======================================================== |
| 01:52.15 | TimRiker | real1m36.085s |
| 01:52.15 | TimRiker | user1m0.630s |
| 01:52.15 | TimRiker | sys0m30.130s |
| 01:52.40 | TimRiker | worked for me. |
| 01:53.35 | Tupone | I dunno what happen if you have optional compilation of windows file. COuld be it work on a platform but not in another |
| 01:53.48 | lan56 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BZFlag <- imagified |
| 01:55.16 | *** join/#bzflag Real (~5063638d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:56.13 | *** part/#bzflag Real (~5063638d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:57.55 | *** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com) |
| 01:58.26 | *** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.254.203.40.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net) |
| 01:58.56 | Silver[a] | ;) http://play02.pogo.com/game/arcade/tankhunter.jsp?game=tank&site=pogo |
| 01:59.03 | TimRiker | hmm. didn't work... =( |
| 02:00.55 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_roooot (~root@dialup-4.158.156.68.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 02:01.05 | Silver[a] | ibot, nutty bot |
| 02:01.11 | blast007_roooot | :) |
| 02:01.26 | TimRiker | checktokens=Tim+Riker@192.168.87.22=1973405480 ... =( |
| 02:01.53 | bryjen | that looks like an old DOS game I had |
| 02:02.32 | Silver[a] | it sweet. I'd like to find a Battle Zone that runs on windows |
| 02:02.39 | Silver[a] | or DOS. MS whatever |
| 02:04.28 | bryjen | http://apple2.mobygames.com/game/sheet/gameId,938/ |
| 02:04.41 | bryjen | odd, that's for an apple machine |
| 02:05.49 | bryjen | lotsa google hits for cheat codes... |
| 02:06.48 | Silver[a] | saw that... |
| 02:07.33 | bryjen | not being a console kiddie and all |
| 02:09.19 | learner | DTRemenak, buggy distchecker :P |
| 02:09.49 | DTRemenak | learner: whatever :) |
| 02:10.54 | TimRiker | ah. byte order... /me ughs |
| 02:11.46 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (configure.in tools/modeltool/vc71/Makefile.am): let's not leave out any directories either |
| 02:12.52 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego|Desk@adsl-67-37-225-170.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 02:13.17 | learner | just encountered the gm-self-shoot on trepan's massive rock n' tree map (fps == 5) |
| 02:13.33 | DTRemenak | yup, that's about a low enough fps to trigger it |
| 02:13.44 | bryjen | us little-endian out number yous big-endians |
| 02:16.35 | *** join/#bzflag Zedi (~nathan@c68.112.171.237.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 02:16.39 | *** part/#bzflag Zedi (~nathan@c68.112.171.237.dul.mn.charter.com) |
| 02:16.57 | DTRemenak | yay, make distcheck has gotten past the configure step :) |
| 02:17.31 | learner | JeffM2501, new binary uploaded |
| 02:25.24 | learner | DTRemenak, moving it to subdirs means it's going to try and build it.. |
| 02:25.36 | DTRemenak | learner: it's not here |
| 02:25.37 | learner | isn't that "a bad thing"? |
| 02:25.52 | DTRemenak | learner: see also the win32 dir |
| 02:26.13 | DTRemenak | they're dist_subdirs of the root dir |
| 02:26.32 | learner | right.. and not subdirs |
| 02:26.36 | DTRemenak | right |
| 02:26.47 | *** part/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-169-164.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 02:26.55 | learner | well you added texttool to subdirs.. |
| 02:27.01 | DTRemenak | of a dist_subdir |
| 02:27.07 | DTRemenak | vc6 is a subdir also |
| 02:27.10 | DTRemenak | of win32 |
| 02:27.14 | DTRemenak | which is a dist_subdir |
| 02:28.01 | learner | ahh, tools isn't a subdir |
| 02:28.04 | DTRemenak | right |
| 02:28.19 | learner | i was going to make it one :) |
| 02:28.25 | learner | but no matter.. good like that |
| 02:28.50 | learner | modeltool actually builds.. bzwtransform is rusted, but could be made to build |
| 02:31.06 | *** join/#bzflag NickT2irc (~ntorys@CPE000102c6bd1e-CM400045980376.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:31.49 | *** part/#bzflag NickT2irc (~ntorys@CPE000102c6bd1e-CM400045980376.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:32.59 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/net/Address.cxx: network order |
| 02:33.48 | TimRiker | fixed. private IPs are not sent to db from bzfs and global login works. |
| 02:34.15 | learner | ~TimRiker++ |
| 02:34.16 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/BZFlag.xcode/project.pbxproj: use --without-regex on the build, include the dylibs in the app for testing, force MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET of 10.1 |
| 02:34.23 | learner | heh |
| 02:34.26 | DTRemenak | grr |
| 02:34.37 | DTRemenak | you won: <ibot> Someone already said that 2 seconds ago |
| 02:34.52 | learner | hehe |
| 02:35.10 | TimRiker | =) |
| 02:36.22 | DTRemenak | learner: my make distcheck looks good, it's just finishing up bzfs |
| 02:36.28 | DTRemenak | want to start bumping versions? |
| 02:36.31 | learner | cool |
| 02:37.52 | learner | was waiting on a build test from JeffM2501, but there's good reason to presume it'll fail |
| 02:38.00 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 02:38.05 | learner | oh shoot.. i've still got 10.2 here somewhere |
| 02:38.33 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 02:48.27 | *** join/#bzflag lan56_ (lan56@h-68-165-17-131.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 02:53.47 | DTRemenak | yay, make distcheck finished successfully, all three exe's run |
| 02:56.11 | brlcad | wow, what a blast from the past |
| 02:56.14 | brlcad | dont' think i've booted this sucker in over a year |
| 03:00.29 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 03:01.47 | brlcad | heh, and of COURSE the XCode project won't work.. since that's 10.3 only :) |
| 03:02.23 | brlcad | all hope is not yet lost, though, as I just need binaries.. |
| 03:04.16 | *** join/#bzflag Dodge_This (~44621954@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:06.21 | brlcad | ../../include/PlayerState.h:46: parse error before `&' token |
| 03:07.10 | brlcad | ah, stddefs |
| 03:17.37 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: check for stdint.h header |
| 03:23.36 | brlcad | DTRemenak: i get the same sqrtf error here so I suppose I will be doing that fix.. |
| 03:23.42 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 03:31.27 | *** join/#bzflag sommertimer3 (Mw8l8ZZF@pool-70-23-61-179.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:41.13 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: added a set of AC_CHECK_LIB calls that specifically test for each of the necessary float math routines. AC_CHECK_FUNCS seems to incorrectly return 'yes' when it should say no on certain flavors of gcc. |
| 03:47.15 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc186118.bendcable.com) |
| 03:50.17 | Noodleman | RELEASE, DAMMIT |
| 03:50.30 | DTRemenak | Noodleman: almost there |
| 03:50.53 | brlcad | gcc |
| 03:50.59 | brlcad | then flicks Noodleman on the noodle |
| 03:51.03 | Noodleman | haha |
| 03:51.47 | DTRemenak | brlcad: did those work for you? |
| 03:52.35 | brlcad | the tests seem to work |
| 03:52.51 | brlcad | still building and working out other hiccups, though |
| 03:58.05 | DTRemenak | they still don't work on solaris (return false yes') |
| 03:58.29 | DTRemenak | the one tanf to check for -lm correctly returns no, but the second one returns yes |
| 03:58.56 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:00.34 | brlcad | hrm, it's not just you |
| 04:00.49 | brlcad | what's even more bizzare .. |
| 04:01.12 | brlcad | there's a tanf function check up top -- change that to sqrtf and it will fail |
| 04:01.18 | DTRemenak | ugh |
| 04:01.34 | brlcad | so something between that top one and the bottom checks make the bottom ones succeed |
| 04:01.38 | DTRemenak | does it work with AC_TRY_LINK? |
| 04:01.43 | DTRemenak | that seems to work on solaris |
| 04:01.57 | DTRemenak | but would be a lot of work to write all the tests |
| 04:02.11 | DTRemenak | brlcad: could just move them to the top :) |
| 04:02.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:02.39 | DTRemenak | also, what will your checks do when libm doesn't exist? |
| 04:03.46 | brlcad | it should fall back to the non f one |
| 04:04.08 | brlcad | not clean/ideal/common at all.. but it does need to be better |
| 04:04.12 | DTRemenak | ok. so there's never a case where libm doesn't exist but sqrtf exists somewhere else? |
| 04:04.17 | brlcad | just trying to get it working now |
| 04:04.19 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 04:04.33 | DTRemenak | just trying to make sure you don't break anyone else in the process :) |
| 04:04.51 | brlcad | yep |
| 04:05.13 | brlcad | i haven't seen a system without a math lib in probably 8 years |
| 04:05.27 | brlcad | and they were at the end of their life then |
| 04:06.09 | DTRemenak | probably none :) |
| 04:06.28 | brlcad | it'd be informative to isolate why the top checks seem to fail, and down blow they pass |
| 04:06.34 | brlcad | yeah.. moving up worked.. |
| 04:06.35 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 04:06.38 | brlcad | only three passed |
| 04:06.45 | DTRemenak | It goes through a bunch more stuff between |
| 04:06.48 | DTRemenak | opengl checks |
| 04:06.49 | DTRemenak | sdl checks |
| 04:06.51 | DTRemenak | x checks |
| 04:07.01 | DTRemenak | curl checks |
| 04:07.03 | DTRemenak | adns checks |
| 04:07.11 | DTRemenak | you know... |
| 04:07.30 | brlcad | it does.. but it would have to be something we've modified on the LDFLAGS/CFLAGS/etc |
| 04:07.35 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 04:08.57 | brlcad | the thing is that they are available.. |
| 04:09.12 | brlcad | just not in the header by then.. |
| 04:09.19 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-117-97.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 04:09.34 | brlcad | because I can extern float sqrtf(float); and use sqrtf() |
| 04:10.33 | brlcad | so in that regard.. the HAVE_ checks are actually "right" ... but we also need to know HAVE_*_DECL |
| 04:11.52 | *** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:12.01 | shorty114 | yo tegan |
| 04:12.08 | Tegan | oy shorty114 |
| 04:12.16 | shorty114 | heh' |
| 04:14.10 | brlcad | DTRemenak: version of curl you have? |
| 04:14.31 | DTRemenak | on solaris? |
| 04:14.36 | brlcad | anywhere |
| 04:14.43 | DTRemenak | on solaris, none |
| 04:14.50 | DTRemenak | in windows, 7.12.3 |
| 04:16.31 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:21.12 | brlcad | that may be what caused it to not work from 10.3 to 10.2..couldn't find a dylib with all the symbols it needed |
| 04:21.58 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-121-169-164.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 04:23.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: make the code backwards compatible with at least 7.7 by not calling curl_global_cleanup and curl_global_init on pre 7.10 curl |
| 04:25.39 | MeBigFatGuy | purple_cow, nudees? |
| 04:25.49 | wegstar | ???? |
| 04:26.52 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: something fishy going on -- the tests correctly fail if they occur early, yet succeed if run later down near the function checks. for now, move the checks up so that things fail properly. |
| 04:26.54 | purple_cow | MeBigFatGuy: absolutely |
| 04:27.04 | MeBigFatGuy | cuel |
| 04:38.23 | *** part/#bzflag blast007 (~root@dialup-4.158.156.68.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 04:38.45 | noyb | Am I a little late on this, or is this a new problem with autogen on macosx: http://pastebin.ca/4296 |
| 04:39.03 | bryjen | naked cows? but... but... they're always wearing leather. |
| 04:39.39 | bryjen | hmm, that actually makes the mental image worse |
| 04:39.55 | purple_cow | hahaha |
| 04:41.12 | bryjen | Canada has its own pastebin? |
| 04:41.41 | bryjen | ~nslookup pastebin.ca |
| 04:41.53 | brlcad | they're special |
| 04:41.59 | brlcad | ~google pastebin |
| 04:42.10 | MeBigFatGuy | ~nslookup pastbin_eh.ca |
| 04:42.47 | MeBigFatGuy | really? |
| 04:42.53 | purple_cow | i don't think they are |
| 04:43.02 | bryjen | dashes |
| 04:43.26 | MeBigFatGuy | wow lurn somfin gnu evry deigh |
| 04:43.46 | purple_cow | http://navi.cx/~jupiter/fyre-art-gallery/ |
| 04:45.19 | bryjen | needs more color. and your apache needs more extensions ;) |
| 04:46.19 | bryjen | pastebin.ca never did come up for me. just sets at "connecting to host" |
| 04:46.46 | bryjen | n/m. there it did finally |
| 04:47.40 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/game/MsgStrings.cxx: |
| 04:47.40 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: gcc 3.1 on mac 10.2 does not like casting char[] to a std::string reference.. |
| 04:47.40 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: also doesn't think you should be taking references of static variable members. |
| 04:47.40 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: simple alternative of using a static std::string external to the static function |
| 04:47.40 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: sufficed. |
| 04:48.42 | noyb | try this one: http://www.pastebin.com/229411 |
| 04:49.30 | brlcad | bleh |
| 04:49.34 | brlcad | that's the objc thing |
| 04:49.50 | bryjen | that's a "brlcad Problem" (tm) |
| 04:49.51 | noyb | sorry... |
| 04:50.35 | brlcad | one version complains and ends up with the symbol missing.. another complains that it's already defined |
| 04:51.15 | brlcad | not your fault |
| 04:51.25 | brlcad | (damn automake's) |
| 04:51.28 | purple_cow | obj-c is quite a hairy problem too :) |
| 04:51.43 | brlcad | objc is just fine :) |
| 04:54.05 | purple_cow | mwahaha |
| 04:54.14 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-165-21-146.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 05:00.20 | shorty114 | yo lan |
| 05:01.34 | shorty114 | ~nslookup ftp.shorty114.net |
| 05:01.41 | shorty114 | ~nslookup shorty114.net |
| 05:01.46 | shorty114 | :| |
| 05:01.55 | shorty114 | ~nslookup 70.84.247.244 |
| 05:04.10 | Thumper_ | I've done a cvs update and now have 1.11.40 ... but I really want 1.11.39 since that is the version you have beta binary packages made for - is there an easy way to get the 1.11.39 code checked out? (cvs update -r ... ?) |
| 05:05.31 | brlcad | Thumper_: it's in the past -- let it go :) |
| 05:05.39 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 05:06.02 | Thumper_ | I guess I'll have an empty test server until people catch up... |
| 05:06.03 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 05:06.06 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: I withdrew the .39 win binaries anyway |
| 05:06.23 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 05:06.25 | DTRemenak | 2.0 is upon us :) |
| 05:06.40 | Thumper_ | :) !! |
| 05:06.45 | cods | hmmm |
| 05:07.23 | Thumper_ | of course it's been upon us for about a week now... :) |
| 05:07.58 | Thumper_ | and 1.11.x/2.0 is amazing guys - great job! |
| 05:08.03 | DTRemenak | brlcad: how's it going? :) |
| 05:08.11 | brlcad | painful |
| 05:08.21 | brlcad | but making progress |
| 05:08.29 | brlcad | almost through the build |
| 05:08.39 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 05:13.21 | DTRemenak | ~brlcad++ |
| 05:13.26 | DTRemenak | solaris/gcc works |
| 05:13.36 | wegstar | why are 1.11.36 servers incompatible with 1.11.38 clients? |
| 05:16.55 | brlcad | compiling away here |
| 05:17.23 | brlcad | wegstar: because those numbers are different |
| 05:17.44 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: just got back from watching GITS, will try your binary now |
| 05:17.55 | wegstar | then why with 1.11.36 clients can access 1.11.35 servers? |
| 05:18.10 | brlcad | wegstar: depends on why it's incompatible |
| 05:18.53 | brlcad | all patch number (e.g. .36, .38, etc) changes on a developer line (1.11) are considered incompatible |
| 05:19.01 | wegstar | hmm |
| 05:19.12 | brlcad | all path number changes on a release line (1.10 for example) are compatible |
| 05:21.58 | brlcad | JeffM2501: I suspect it will fail horribly in a quiet ball of bouncing nothingness |
| 05:22.07 | wegstar | he went off :) |
| 05:22.08 | brlcad | heh -- or it'll crash your ocmputer :) |
| 05:23.08 | brlcad | build seems to be cruising now |
| 05:23.21 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 05:23.39 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: where did you upload to? |
| 05:24.03 | JeffM2501 | the one in your home dir, hasn't changed since the 11th |
| 05:25.11 | brlcad | er, I watched the scp go into ~/. |
| 05:25.29 | JeffM2501 | then it has the same issue |
| 05:25.35 | JeffM2501 | and a mod date of the 11th |
| 05:25.45 | brlcad | you gunziped? |
| 05:26.02 | JeffM2501 | it's ziped? |
| 05:26.16 | brlcad | have to "tar zxvf ~sean/BZFlag.app.tar.gz" |
| 05:26.30 | JeffM2501 | your username is seanm |
| 05:26.42 | brlcad | hrm |
| 05:27.00 | JeffM2501 | I only saw a bzflag |
| 05:27.03 | JeffM2501 | and been using that |
| 05:27.17 | JeffM2501 | unless i"m in the wrong "users" dir |
| 05:27.22 | brlcad | well damn.. where the heck have I been uploading.. |
| 05:27.26 | brlcad | hehe |
| 05:27.44 | JeffM2501 | OSX10.2/Users/seanm right? |
| 05:28.29 | brlcad | heh, i've no idea now.. i swear I've been using sean@ sasami port 2222 |
| 05:28.52 | brlcad | oh well |
| 05:29.01 | purple_cow | hmmm |
| 05:29.01 | purple_cow | http://www.spectraphotodigital.com/docs/ourservices/fineart.html |
| 05:29.04 | JeffM2501 | wonder if its just sasami |
| 05:29.32 | JeffM2501 | HA |
| 05:29.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:29.38 | JeffM2501 | that's sasami |
| 05:29.40 | JeffM2501 | I got it |
| 05:29.46 | JeffM2501 | let me gunzip and give it a go |
| 05:29.56 | brlcad | wrong box? |
| 05:30.04 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:30.11 | brlcad | heh, okay |
| 05:30.28 | brlcad | too many salami's to remember :) |
| 05:30.58 | JeffM2501 | or I have my portmap jacked |
| 05:31.52 | JeffM2501 | unstuffing... |
| 05:32.31 | JeffM2501 | you musta forgot the 2222 |
| 05:32.37 | JeffM2501 | 22 is sasami |
| 05:32.45 | JeffM2501 | or my router is lying |
| 05:33.33 | brlcad | dunno.. maybe both :) |
| 05:33.39 | shorty114 | lol |
| 05:34.15 | JeffM2501 | well won't run on a double click |
| 05:36.35 | brlcad | hrm |
| 05:36.38 | JeffM2501 | maual run says... |
| 05:36.38 | brlcad | that's promising |
| 05:36.42 | JeffM2501 | no libcurl2 |
| 05:36.52 | brlcad | yep, okay |
| 05:36.54 | JeffM2501 | dylib |
| 05:36.59 | brlcad | well, this last fix should do the trick |
| 05:37.02 | brlcad | it's building now |
| 05:37.06 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 05:38.13 | JeffM2501 | it's sill in your home dir |
| 05:40.06 | brlcad | ahh, think i used -p .. |
| 05:40.12 | brlcad | -P is for scp port |
| 05:40.18 | brlcad | splains it |
| 05:40.23 | brlcad | so my bad |
| 05:41.38 | JeffM2501 | not like they can't access each other |
| 05:44.37 | qbwwdp | hey |
| 05:44.45 | qbwwdp | anyone want to play bzflag? |
| 05:45.09 | qbwwdp | well |
| 05:45.11 | qbwwdp | oye |
| 05:45.53 | brlcad | sssh, people are trying to sleep |
| 05:47.04 | lan56 | qbwwdp: what version do you want to play? |
| 05:47.16 | SportChick | Aribeth: whatcha bidding on? |
| 05:47.18 | lan56 | lakers won, btw |
| 05:47.48 | Aribeth | im bidding on a scsi controller for a sun ultra 60 workstation |
| 05:47.59 | qbwwdp | lan56: i want to play on britsystems.com |
| 05:48.07 | SportChick | Aribeth: cool |
| 05:48.16 | Tegan | ~google jayhawks |
| 05:48.18 | SportChick | lan56: the JAYHAWKS won, btw (again) |
| 05:48.29 | Tegan | oh |
| 05:48.32 | SportChick | Tegan: http://kuathletics.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/kan-m-baskbl-body.html |
| 05:48.37 | lan56 | sportchick: what city are the jayhawks? |
| 05:48.53 | SportChick | lan56: lawrence |
| 05:49.34 | lan56 | ahh, I see |
| 05:49.39 | MeBigFatGuy | ksc |
| 05:49.43 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:49.54 | brlcad | World.cxx:1041: no matching function for call to `CollisionManager::draw(void |
| 05:50.34 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego|Desk@adsl-67-37-225-170.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 05:55.02 | qbwwdp | ihow do you lock shots |
| 05:55.14 | lan56 | right mouse click |
| 05:55.22 | qbwwdp | don't use mouse |
| 05:55.29 | lan56 | but you can only lock on to a person if you have GM |
| 05:55.48 | qbwwdp | yes whats the keyboard key for it |
| 05:55.51 | lan56 | ahh, then there should be a key you set up in the key bindings menu in the options menu |
| 05:56.38 | brlcad | qbwwdp: press i to "identify/lock" |
| 05:57.33 | qbwwdp | ah ok |
| 05:57.34 | qbwwdp | thanx |
| 06:00.10 | *** join/#bzflag lan56_ (lan56@h-68-164-235-107.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 06:03.58 | *** join/#bzflag bz5860 (~18dfe074@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:10.23 | DTRemenak | brlcad: how goes it? |
| 06:14.54 | *** join/#bzflag bzblah (~bzblah@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 06:15.18 | brlcad | DTRemenak: down to the link line of bzflag |
| 06:15.25 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 06:15.28 | brlcad | it didn't like the const on that draw func |
| 06:17.56 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.in: need to subst OBJCFLAGS too. try another angle on the OBJCDEPMODE |
| 06:20.19 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/World.cxx: take the reference to the function to get a function pointer, otherwise it's an implicit cast (which gcc 3.1 no likey) |
| 06:21.49 | *** part/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:23.10 | *** part/#bzflag bzblah (~bzblah@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 06:27.20 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/include/CollisionManager.h: unconstify the const float array.. gcc 3.1 on mac insists on treating the float array as non-const, failing on weak implicit conversion |
| 06:28.59 | lan56 | mmm, tea |
| 06:29.04 | wegstar | what type? |
| 06:31.39 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast007@dialup-4.158.156.68.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 06:34.42 | *** join/#bzflag lan56_ (lan56@h-68-165-17-191.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 06:34.55 | brlcad | woo hoo.. it completed! |
| 06:35.35 | DTRemenak | ~brlcad++ |
| 06:36.03 | DTRemenak | c:\Programs\bzflag\src\bzflag\World.cxx(1041) : error C2664: 'CollisionManager::draw' : cannot convert parameter 1 from 'void (__cdecl *)(int,const float (*)[3],int)' to 'DrawLinesFunc' |
| 06:36.13 | DTRemenak | *cough* |
| 06:36.29 | qbwwdp | hey |
| 06:36.32 | qbwwdp | come play |
| 06:39.25 | *** join/#bzflag lan56_ (lan56@h-68-165-17-191.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 06:39.43 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/World.cxx: if you're gonna unconstify one, unconstify the other too, so vc doesn't have a cow |
| 06:39.53 | DTRemenak | (no offense to the purple one) |
| 06:40.12 | lan56 | heh, "a cow" |
| 06:41.58 | *** join/#bzflag bz2019 (~18dfe074@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:45.19 | noyb | just got cvs... and regarding the ./autogen.sh... do I need to move a block of stuff up to the top to fix that OBJCDEPMODE problem? |
| 06:48.08 | brlcad | noyb: no, remove the AC_SUBST(OBJCDEPMODE) line in configure.in |
| 06:48.54 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 06:49.08 | noyb | thanks! |
| 06:49.10 | sgk284 | hello |
| 06:49.26 | wegstar | hi |
| 06:49.49 | lan56 | hey sgk284 |
| 06:50.13 | DTRemenak | blast007_: are you here or away? |
| 06:50.25 | blast007_ | here |
| 06:50.28 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 06:50.34 | DTRemenak | could you test the vc6 compile? |
| 06:50.41 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ready? |
| 06:50.44 | noyb | ~brlcad++ |
| 06:51.17 | blast007_ | don't have a compiler at the moment...just reinstalled Windows today |
| 06:51.22 | DTRemenak | ah, ok |
| 06:51.32 | DTRemenak | I guess we'll just assume it works then :) |
| 06:51.41 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ready for another test? |
| 06:52.07 | blast007_ | :) |
| 06:52.16 | DTRemenak | ~smack noyb |
| 06:52.19 | ibot | ACTION smacks noyb upside the head. |
| 06:52.19 | brlcad | ow.. can't.. type.. |
| 06:52.30 | DTRemenak | well, close anyway |
| 06:52.36 | Thumper_ | lol |
| 06:55.25 | brlcad | heh.. 70MB compiled |
| 06:55.30 | brlcad | 3.7 stripped |
| 06:55.37 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 06:55.57 | Aribeth | need a lawyer? Dewey cheatem and howe |
| 06:56.24 | DTRemenak | Aribeth: watching the three stooges is known to have a negative impact on the development of social skills |
| 06:56.34 | Aribeth | hehe |
| 06:56.37 | DTRemenak | (maybe that's what I did wrong) |
| 07:03.48 | Thumper_ | When I connect to the Olympic server from local LAN I get "Global login rejected, bad token." as the last server startup message |
| 07:03.52 | Thumper_ | 1.11.40 |
| 07:04.03 | wegstar | ooh its out? |
| 07:04.06 | wegstar | ok |
| 07:04.13 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: how new of a server compile is it? |
| 07:04.42 | DTRemenak | hrmph, probably not new enough |
| 07:04.48 | DTRemenak | that was fixed ~4 hrs ago |
| 07:04.59 | DTRemenak | so it probably hasn't hit anoncvs yet |
| 07:05.04 | Thumper_ | hmm not that recent... almost 6 hrs ??!! |
| 07:05.09 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 07:05.13 | Thumper_ | will do update and try again :) |
| 07:05.16 | DTRemenak | ok :) |
| 07:05.18 | Thumper_ | sorry for the noise... |
| 07:05.21 | DTRemenak | no prob |
| 07:05.31 | DTRemenak | it's nice to know about those things |
| 07:05.31 | Thumper_ | although it sure doesn't _feel_ like 6 hrs... |
| 07:05.37 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:06.30 | noyb | ooof... compile failed: http://pastebin.ca/4302 |
| 07:08.01 | sgk284 | anyone know if viper hangs out here? |
| 07:08.16 | sgk284 | or how to contact him? |
| 07:08.22 | wegstar | nope... |
| 07:09.05 | sgk284 | k |
| 07:09.18 | *** join/#bzflag tdfc (tdfc@sverige.freeshell.org) |
| 07:10.10 | sgk284 | apparently one of his admin was mocking a players mom and making claims about her and then banned him... dont think viper would like that, the person came on secretplace thinking that admin were universal and asked me to more or less unban him |
| 07:10.28 | sgk284 | :/ |
| 07:11.27 | wegstar | at viper.pimpi.org? |
| 07:11.53 | wegstar | there are a lot of admins there.. they don't come on at this time though... |
| 07:12.22 | sgk284 | :/ well i found him on the forums so i'll email him just in case |
| 07:12.37 | sgk284 | yea i thought it was wierd... maybe someone guessed an admin password or something |
| 07:13.23 | wegstar | heh, that's bad... |
| 07:13.29 | brlcad | sweet! |
| 07:13.33 | brlcad | it all works here |
| 07:13.36 | DTRemenak | brlcad: that sounds good |
| 07:13.38 | DTRemenak | :) :) |
| 07:13.45 | DTRemenak | brlcad: just finished my last compile too |
| 07:13.46 | brlcad | never seen bz windowed on 10.2 :) |
| 07:13.57 | DTRemenak | mingw, solaris, vc7.1, and freebsd compiles all work |
| 07:14.50 | brlcad | it was the tea.. just needed the tea |
| 07:15.20 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 07:15.47 | sgk284 | wow thats an amazing feat of cross-platofmr compatibitility |
| 07:15.55 | sgk284 | if only i could spell... |
| 07:15.59 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:16.01 | *** part/#bzflag tdfc (tdfc@sverige.freeshell.org) |
| 07:16.48 | brlcad | sgk284: we'll have irix by 2.0.2 too |
| 07:17.32 | sgk284 | nice |
| 07:17.46 | sgk284 | think day 5 will be the day? :) |
| 07:17.57 | brlcad | within the hour |
| 07:18.07 | sgk284 | awesome |
| 07:18.07 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ping? |
| 07:18.08 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ready to bump version numbers? |
| 07:18.18 | Thumper_ | just recompiled and I still get the bad token error |
| 07:18.22 | sgk284 | btw what version of cvs are you guys compiling from? the latest or like form the 13th? |
| 07:18.28 | Thumper_ | and my account doesn't automatically log in anymore |
| 07:18.32 | brlcad | DTRemenak: I think we're ready |
| 07:18.38 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 07:18.45 | sgk284 | thats awesome news |
| 07:18.57 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: that fix still hasn't hit anoncvs |
| 07:19.02 | Thumper_ | ah |
| 07:19.04 | Thumper_ | ok |
| 07:19.10 | brlcad | so let the bump n' grinding commence |
| 07:19.11 | Thumper_ | guess I'll go to sleep then :) |
| 07:19.29 | Thumper_ | so if you're ready... what's left to do? |
| 07:19.39 | DTRemenak | brlcad: that sounds dirty :) |
| 07:19.52 | sgk284 | lol |
| 07:20.16 | sgk284 | lol |
| 07:20.27 | blast007 | hehe |
| 07:20.41 | sgk284 | nothing like a revert war to delay progress ;) |
| 07:21.28 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/date/buildDate.cxx: and so it begins, the dawn of a new major number 2.0.0 -- preparing for release now. |
| 07:22.21 | sgk284 | thats the best thing i've heard in 4 days :) |
| 07:22.34 | sgk284 | yea... its pathetic i know |
| 07:22.37 | sgk284 | ;) |
| 07:22.53 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/package/win32/ (installer_2.0.nsi nsis/BZFlag.nsi nsis/SDL_BZFlag.nsi): installer versions to 2.0 |
| 07:22.56 | Thumper_ | you guys do know that I'm not sleeping because of this project... :) |
| 07:23.02 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: neither are we ;) |
| 07:23.06 | sgk284 | heh |
| 07:23.07 | noyb | Can I get a, "me too!" in da house?! |
| 07:23.13 | sgk284 | me three |
| 07:23.14 | brlcad | file tree in README is out of date |
| 07:23.16 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/README: 2.0.0 conversion under way |
| 07:23.28 | lan56 | we oughta have a ticker countdown, one of those electric ones, on bzflag.org or the sf.net site counting down to how long till 2.0 is released, like "0 YEARS 0 MONTHS 5 DAYS 25 MINUTES 15 SECONDS", sort of like the electronic ones in the post office counting down to the year 2000 |
| 07:24.03 | brlcad | lan56: cept that number would have been negative by now :) |
| 07:24.10 | Thumper_ | but that assumes you actually know when the release will be... |
| 07:24.10 | sgk284 | lol |
| 07:24.14 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: rebooting |
| 07:24.18 | JeffM2501 | it has "issues" |
| 07:24.18 | lan56 | ahh, that's right :) |
| 07:24.19 | noyb | get yer new years eve caps... |
| 07:24.21 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/DEVINFO: version numbers are in buildDate.cxx not configure.in |
| 07:24.21 | JeffM2501 | beer in the keyboard |
| 07:24.32 | sgk284 | lol |
| 07:24.35 | noyb | 10.... 9.... |
| 07:24.50 | lan56 | 8 |
| 07:24.59 | noyb | the crowd roars! |
| 07:25.15 | brlcad | version numbers _should_ be in freaking configure.in, imo.. alas later :) |
| 07:25.17 | lan56 | *crickets* |
| 07:25.23 | DTRemenak | uhoh. we need a name |
| 07:25.39 | lan56 | dtremenak: a nickname for 2.0? |
| 07:25.41 | JeffM2501 | the carpaltunnel release |
| 07:25.42 | Thumper_ | we do? |
| 07:25.45 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 07:25.51 | noyb | like 'break the world' last time? |
| 07:26.05 | DTRemenak | last time was "lightning strikes back - list server returns" |
| 07:26.15 | noyb | how 'bout "fix the world" |
| 07:26.16 | Thumper_ | Flying Bat-Tanks |
| 07:26.22 | JeffM2501 | "it's full of stars" |
| 07:26.27 | lan56 | how about, "the release with lan56's stuff in it"--instant popularity, best seller, best download amount ever |
| 07:26.34 | Thumper_ | hehe |
| 07:26.54 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 "now shut the hell up" |
| 07:26.59 | noyb | Mesh with reality |
| 07:27.03 | Thumper_ | The "Everything-Including-The-Kitchen-Sink" release |
| 07:27.10 | lan56 | same here |
| 07:27.12 | sgk284 | it should be catchy, this is the first major number change in god knows how long :) |
| 07:27.34 | sgk284 | i vote for jeff's :) |
| 07:27.53 | lan56 | but it needs to remain "hell", otherwise it's not funny anymore IMHO |
| 07:28.08 | JeffM2501 | "shut the frell up" |
| 07:28.15 | noyb | JeffM2501: I've got a server that says something like that. "Welcome. Now shut up and play!" |
| 07:28.37 | sgk284 | 2.0 - "It's twice as good" |
| 07:28.42 | JeffM2501 | tis a good word and bears repeating |
| 07:28.54 | Thumper_ | skip 2.0 go straight to 3.0 it's more than twice as good |
| 07:28.55 | lan56 | "it's twicetwice as good"--no spelling error |
| 07:29.09 | sgk284 | lol |
| 07:29.09 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 "it's about time" |
| 07:29.21 | lan56 | "NO KARMA" |
| 07:29.31 | noyb | "Right on time" |
| 07:29.31 | brlcad | re a name.. trepan had a good one |
| 07:29.31 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:29.35 | Thumper_ | the TurtleRelease (slow but sure?) |
| 07:29.35 | sgk284 | 2.0 - "It's about tanks" |
| 07:29.44 | brlcad | trepan_away: wake up you :) |
| 07:29.44 | DTRemenak | brlcad: do you remember it? |
| 07:29.51 | lan56 | brlcad: what's that? |
| 07:29.54 | sgk284 | trepan_away, awaken |
| 07:29.57 | brlcad | it my log, hold on |
| 07:31.10 | Thumper_ | so how long from now does it normally take for the release images to be available on the download site? - do I have time to sleep? ;) |
| 07:31.18 | lan56 | is 2.0 out yet? |
| 07:31.21 | lan56 | :) |
| 07:31.37 | sgk284 | tim has a running log of all the irc text... not sure if its a live update though |
| 07:31.38 | Thumper_ | no - the topic hasn't changed yet |
| 07:31.39 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: what platform? |
| 07:31.55 | Thumper_ | linux/debian - I need the source tarball for patching |
| 07:31.57 | *** topic/#bzflag by DTRemenak -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || 1.11.x builds http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Release date is RIGHT NOW! || NO IT'S NOT OUT YET |
| 07:32.08 | sgk284 | awesome |
| 07:32.18 | Thumper_ | or are you going to tag the CVS library for 2.0 and I can just use that? |
| 07:32.20 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: source tarball is first up, usually |
| 07:32.29 | noyb | "Take 2.0 and call me in the morning" |
| 07:32.29 | DTRemenak | and we will tag 2.0, once we have a name |
| 07:32.33 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/README: update with current directories |
| 07:32.55 | sgk284 | 2.0 -"Platinum Edition" |
| 07:33.15 | noyb | "It's got wings!" |
| 07:33.38 | Thumper_ | "You Can Fly Without Cheating..." |
| 07:33.40 | noyb | "Not available in stores" |
| 07:33.43 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:33.55 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: that's pretty good :) |
| 07:33.58 | JeffM2501 | "not to be taken internaly" |
| 07:34.00 | sgk284 | lol yea |
| 07:34.02 | noyb | Mirror Crusher |
| 07:35.20 | DTRemenak | noyb: too much like Wesley Crusher |
| 07:35.39 | lan56 | dtremenak: he's not going to get to sleep until he finds it :) |
| 07:35.43 | JeffM2501 | 'new AND improved |
| 07:35.44 | sgk284 | heh |
| 07:35.48 | noyb | Cuz when "it's out" it's gonna crush the download mirrors. |
| 07:35.57 | JeffM2501 | 'the same, yet diferent |
| 07:36.04 | lan56 | how about, "the 1/2 pound release" |
| 07:36.05 | brlcad | ahh, found it |
| 07:36.05 | sgk284 | think its worth a slashdot submission? |
| 07:36.09 | brlcad | Falcor's Despair |
| 07:36.26 | brlcad | that's beautifully relevant :) |
| 07:36.49 | lan56 | whose falcor? |
| 07:36.56 | brlcad | ~google falcor despair |
| 07:37.04 | Thumper_ | "The Red-Eyed Release" (for all the developers and testers) |
| 07:37.30 | noyb | Break the Mirror |
| 07:37.48 | noyb | Lemming fodder |
| 07:37.56 | JeffM2501 | 1) don't pick somethig that is like has been done before |
| 07:38.08 | JeffM2501 | 2)it should make sense to everyone |
| 07:38.09 | noyb | ok |
| 07:38.14 | noyb | check |
| 07:38.15 | JeffM2501 | 3) i should probably be funny |
| 07:38.19 | JeffM2501 | it not i |
| 07:38.25 | noyb | okey dokey |
| 07:38.28 | brlcad | hehe |
| 07:38.35 | lan56 | jeffm2501: the first version of that sentence was correct :) |
| 07:38.48 | JeffM2501 | lan, shut up, your not funny |
| 07:38.49 | JeffM2501 | ever |
| 07:38.50 | brlcad | it's perfect.. no like anyone got steely eyed banannas |
| 07:38.59 | JeffM2501 | yet it was fully |
| 07:39.01 | JeffM2501 | funny |
| 07:39.08 | JeffM2501 | mirror cursher isn't funny |
| 07:39.19 | lan56 | jeffm2501: I may or may not be, it doesn't matter, it's just clean humor, if it's funny to some, it is, if it isn't then it isn't |
| 07:39.38 | lan56 | it's up for grabs in other words |
| 07:39.39 | brlcad | falcor's despair isn't a known catch phrase, but most everyone's heard of the neverending story |
| 07:40.10 | brlcad | this release was like a freaking neverending story .. laiden with despair |
| 07:40.28 | noyb | Now in 3D |
| 07:40.28 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 "don't touch it.. it's evil" |
| 07:40.43 | noyb | Got Sleep |
| 07:40.53 | jpa- | morning |
| 07:40.54 | noyb | ? |
| 07:40.56 | Thumper_ | Lost Sleep |
| 07:41.03 | Thumper_ | but that's probably normal... |
| 07:41.18 | JeffM2501 | for the end user making a refrence to the big things that have changed would help |
| 07:41.21 | JeffM2501 | worlds |
| 07:41.22 | brlcad | JeffM2501: did it work? |
| 07:41.24 | JeffM2501 | and centeral login |
| 07:41.31 | JeffM2501 | the mac, she is ... dead |
| 07:41.36 | JeffM2501 | keyboard no go |
| 07:42.06 | Thumper_ | Wings - for flags |
| 07:42.24 | Thumper_ | but there are too many things... |
| 07:42.30 | Thumper_ | :) |
| 07:42.41 | JeffM2501 | "you will belvive a tank can fly" |
| 07:42.55 | Thumper_ | It'll be released when tanks can fly... |
| 07:43.51 | Aribeth | "The Flying Tanker's Release" |
| 07:44.05 | DTRemenak | heh, "Continuum of Time" |
| 07:44.27 | Aribeth | cool |
| 07:45.10 | JeffM2501 | replace it with heck and it'd still be funny |
| 07:45.12 | noyb | how bout a little shorter: "When tanks fly..." |
| 07:45.36 | Aribeth | thats a good one |
| 07:45.55 | lan56 | noyb: I like it, as it is simple and quite relevant, the only thing missing is some humor, but I still like that IMHO |
| 07:45.57 | brlcad | there's too many major features to focus in on any one or two of them, imo |
| 07:46.06 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/README.MacOSX: update Mac notes for the XCode project; point out that the port is feature-wise complete now as of 2.0 |
| 07:46.29 | jpa- | "This is not enough" |
| 07:46.32 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 07:46.40 | DTRemenak | "The world is not enough" |
| 07:46.49 | Thumper_ | or "Way too much" |
| 07:46.59 | jpa- | "No, there is no new bzedit" |
| 07:47.15 | Thumper_ | "Too many map options" |
| 07:47.15 | JeffM2501 | "yes you will have to learn math" |
| 07:47.20 | JeffM2501 | "can't you people read" |
| 07:47.22 | brlcad | well, trepan_away needs to wake up and decide -- he was given the torch to choose some time ago |
| 07:47.35 | DTRemenak | yeah, but when's he gonna get up? |
| 07:47.52 | JeffM2501 | he'll pick hell :) |
| 07:47.57 | noyb | Remember that spaghetti sauce? How about "Prego!" for "It's in there!" |
| 07:48.03 | brlcad | i should have asked him how serious he was about falcor |
| 07:48.08 | jpa- | "Vectors go trough origo" |
| 07:48.29 | JeffM2501 | dragons do NOT have dog heads! |
| 07:49.03 | noyb | "Prego!" comments? |
| 07:49.18 | Thumper_ | can't us a (tm) name... |
| 07:49.26 | noyb | Uh, oh... |
| 07:49.28 | Thumper_ | can you? |
| 07:49.32 | DTRemenak | anyone know trepan_away's phone number? :) |
| 07:49.55 | lan56 | I can give him a call, hold on :) |
| 07:50.16 | jpa- | do not distrupt the sleeping evilness |
| 07:50.41 | Thumper_ | disturb* ? |
| 07:51.08 | jpa- | my spelling is completely ok! |
| 07:51.32 | Thumper_ | The "Flying Texture Madness" release |
| 07:51.46 | DTRemenak | brlcad: yeah, it's hard to tell if trepan_away really meant that |
| 07:51.48 | jpa- | "You will never understand" |
| 07:51.55 | brlcad | DTRemenak: you see the log? |
| 07:51.58 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 07:52.05 | JeffM2501 | "munchkin invasion" |
| 07:52.25 | DTRemenak | brlcad: you want it? I think it's fine, but I think a lot of people won't get it |
| 07:52.39 | brlcad | oh, i'm sure most won't get it |
| 07:52.47 | JeffM2501 | all those kids boorn in 1990! |
| 07:52.50 | jpa- | i don't get it |
| 07:52.55 | brlcad | it's slightly academic too |
| 07:52.58 | JeffM2501 | aka 85% of current users |
| 07:53.10 | jpa- | while i get that i could create munchin with sphere and arc |
| 07:53.12 | DTRemenak | ok, works for me |
| 07:53.12 | brlcad | the release title isn't for them.. it's for us :) |
| 07:53.30 | brlcad | the game is for them ;) |
| 07:53.38 | Thumper_ | "Is it out yet?" :) |
| 07:53.53 | Thumper_ | how many times did they ask that anyway? |
| 07:54.03 | jpa- | "Still no cheat codes!" |
| 07:54.05 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: enough times that we +q'd a couple :) |
| 07:54.06 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: so it has been written, so it shall be done. 2.0.0, Falcor's Despair. |
| 07:54.21 | Thumper_ | hehe |
| 07:54.57 | JeffM2501 | Thumper_: what do you think "now shut the hell up!" is for? |
| 07:55.18 | Thumper_ | either that or the '... and play' part |
| 07:55.22 | JeffM2501 | tho "wait till ya get a load of me" |
| 07:55.29 | jpa- | hey! |
| 07:55.40 | jpa- | do you mean the 2.0 will be released in few hours? |
| 07:55.46 | DTRemenak | hours? |
| 07:55.50 | Thumper_ | jpa is just waking up |
| 07:55.56 | Thumper_ | to a 2.0 world |
| 07:55.56 | jpa- | yes :) |
| 07:56.03 | DTRemenak | see the topic. Release date is RIGHT NOW! |
| 07:56.07 | jpa- | ewww |
| 07:56.15 | brlcad | hrm.. all changes in? |
| 07:56.22 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM2501 -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || 1.11.x builds http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Release date is RIGHT NOW! || NOW SHUT THE HECK UP! |
| 07:56.22 | brlcad | doesn't DEVINFO have a file tree too |
| 07:56.24 | jpa- | and i'm just compiling cvs 0025 protocol |
| 07:56.30 | JeffM2501 | best of both worlds |
| 07:56.38 | brlcad | DTRemenak: bump protocol? |
| 07:56.41 | Thumper_ | jpa> don't bother |
| 07:56.45 | DTRemenak | brlcad: yup, prolly should |
| 07:57.06 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I've been following DEVINFO. we're at "tag the release" |
| 07:57.32 | noyb | after the version bump and tag... does that become available immediately to anon cvs? |
| 07:57.39 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 07:57.46 | DTRemenak | noyb: nope, we don't have control of anoncvs |
| 07:57.47 | jpa- | tar.gz on site? |
| 07:57.48 | JeffM2501 | there is nothing "magic" about a release |
| 07:57.53 | JeffM2501 | it's just more code |
| 07:57.58 | Thumper_ | sure there is! |
| 07:57.59 | Thumper_ | :) |
| 07:57.59 | JeffM2501 | it'll be posted as a tarball |
| 07:58.01 | brlcad | DTRemenak: i was at the steps that have us reviewing the file contents :) |
| 07:58.03 | DTRemenak | yeah, the source tarball will be first |
| 07:58.07 | jpa- | release is everything! |
| 07:58.19 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ohh...I did that Dec. 24 :) |
| 07:58.19 | JeffM2501 | you people need to get a life |
| 07:58.33 | jpa- | so i have to set up distcc to compile 2.0 as fast as possible :) |
| 07:58.43 | noyb | JeffM2501: as if... |
| 07:59.19 | JeffM2501 | as iff what? |
| 07:59.43 | noyb | as if you cornered the market on life. |
| 07:59.52 | brlcad | any recent changes missing from the ChangeLog? |
| 07:59.53 | JeffM2501 | you live in a market? |
| 08:00.00 | noyb | wee! |
| 08:00.03 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I don't think so |
| 08:00.11 | jpa- | i have a life.. i just dumped it because bzflag was more fun |
| 08:00.15 | brlcad | mm.. modeltool isn't listed |
| 08:00.39 | JeffM2501 | it should be built for windows too |
| 08:00.40 | DTRemenak | brlcad: does that belong? I don't think any of the other external tools are in there. |
| 08:01.01 | DTRemenak | but whatever |
| 08:01.17 | brlcad | there are only two |
| 08:01.34 | DTRemenak | bzwtransform is not in there from way back |
| 08:02.01 | DTRemenak | TextTool is part of the new font system, but I wouldn't put it in anyway |
| 08:02.10 | DTRemenak | 3ds2bzw isn't in there either, I don't think |
| 08:02.15 | JeffM2501 | it's not used by normal men |
| 08:02.50 | brlcad | and yes.. bzw is old, texttool is sorta covered under a different log line |
| 08:02.51 | DTRemenak | I'm thinking of modeltool more as a replacement/supplement for bzedit than a part of bzflag |
| 08:03.05 | DTRemenak | what does JeffM2501 think? |
| 08:03.15 | brlcad | heh.. oop |
| 08:03.22 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: tool for converting obj to bzw |
| 08:03.28 | JeffM2501 | I made it to be put into the build |
| 08:03.30 | JeffM2501 | and installed |
| 08:03.36 | DTRemenak | ah, k |
| 08:04.36 | JeffM2501 | it has no docs |
| 08:05.01 | JeffM2501 | I have updates for it |
| 08:05.06 | JeffM2501 | but they will wait |
| 08:05.24 | JeffM2501 | unless you just want to post it alone |
| 08:05.54 | JeffM2501 | whats there works, just dosnt' do the passthru |
| 08:07.20 | noyb | |
| 08:07.36 | noyb | woops |
| 08:07.54 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: I'll have another USB keyboard avalable in a bit and I can retry the build |
| 08:07.56 | JeffM2501 | same place? |
| 08:08.04 | JeffM2501 | or did you put it on the right machine? |
| 08:08.19 | Thumper_ | well it's 3AM... do I stay up and grab the source tarball and start my server in 2.0... or go to sleep and do it in 8 hrs... ? |
| 08:08.19 | Thumper_ | Any idea how long before the source tarball will be available ? (and after this I'll shut the heck up! ;) ) |
| 08:08.42 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: source tarball is made immediately after tagging |
| 08:08.49 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak: you may want to not even worry about my model tool ether |
| 08:08.54 | jpa- | is tagging so complicated? :) |
| 08:08.56 | JeffM2501 | since the trepan is doing blender |
| 08:09.01 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: for right now, I'm not going to |
| 08:09.22 | DTRemenak | it's not in the main .sln, it's not in the installer, I haven't even tested to see if it builds |
| 08:09.32 | JeffM2501 | it does |
| 08:09.35 | JeffM2501 | it has it's own sln |
| 08:09.41 | brlcad | JeffM2501: right machine |
| 08:09.43 | DTRemenak | yeah, I know |
| 08:10.37 | JeffM2501 | text tool was not in main, so didn't do this |
| 08:11.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: texttool isn't supposed to be distributed with bz, so I assumed this wasn't |
| 08:11.17 | brlcad | DTRemenak: you see any more bugs that are fixed? |
| 08:11.18 | DTRemenak | sounds like I was wrong |
| 08:11.20 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/BUGS: old bugs cleanup |
| 08:11.38 | JeffM2501 | the primary reason I made it... I didn't want to do toolpath stuff on friday at work |
| 08:11.53 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 08:12.08 | Thumper_ | is 2.0 the same protocol version as 1.11.40? or did you bump it again? |
| 08:12.22 | jpa- | of course they will :) |
| 08:12.37 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: we have not bumped yet (unless brlcad did without my noticing) but we will |
| 08:12.38 | jpa- | just for fun |
| 08:12.40 | Thumper_ | figured :) |
| 08:12.59 | jpa- | so we can have "who compiles first and has his server running |
| 08:13.05 | jpa- | -competition |
| 08:13.06 | Thumper_ | hmmm so my 1.11.40 server would work with 2.0 clients? and I can go to sleep and do this tomorrow? |
| 08:13.17 | jpa- | Thumper_: "we will" |
| 08:13.21 | brlcad | there's a large lil item in TODO from tim |
| 08:13.26 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: no, your 1.11.40 server will *not* work with 2.0 |
| 08:13.26 | jpa- | Thumper_: so no :) |
| 08:13.34 | Thumper_ | thx |
| 08:13.42 | DTRemenak | brlcad: hmm |
| 08:14.10 | jpa- | happily the release is in a good timezone |
| 08:14.20 | jpa- | i have 12 hours time :) |
| 08:14.26 | brlcad | DTRemenak: thoughts? :) |
| 08:14.27 | DTRemenak | that is a rather large item |
| 08:14.37 | DTRemenak | the last subitem in particular is kind of important |
| 08:15.09 | DTRemenak | the top ones can be part of a point release imho |
| 08:15.45 | Thumper_ | will anon cvs catch up before the tarball is available? |
| 08:15.53 | brlcad | just not sure if any of those are release barriers |
| 08:15.53 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: no |
| 08:16.00 | DTRemenak | brlcad: the last one might be |
| 08:16.19 | DTRemenak | what currently happens is that the global user gets the local user's permissions, I think |
| 08:16.32 | DTRemenak | which could be rather...unpleasant |
| 08:16.51 | Thumper_ | now my really stupid 3am question... :) where do we download 2.0 from |
| 08:16.54 | DTRemenak | I think the global one should completely override it |
| 08:17.05 | jpa- | Thumper_: just guess the new protocol, hand edit, and go to sleep :) |
| 08:17.17 | DTRemenak | wipe the local one out of the database and add the global user of the same name |
| 08:17.29 | DTRemenak | the other option is to refuse to authenticate the global user |
| 08:18.07 | jpa- | second one is better |
| 08:18.30 | DTRemenak | any other server admins have thoughts? |
| 08:19.17 | brlcad | DTRemenak: that doesn't sound like a protocol change for either .. |
| 08:19.19 | jpa- | because if global one is _not_ the local one, he would get the perms of local one, right? |
| 08:19.30 | brlcad | i.e. something that could happen 2.0.1 |
| 08:19.32 | DTRemenak | brlcad: current behaviour is stupid and insecure :) |
| 08:19.33 | JeffM2501 | all perms are local |
| 08:19.50 | JeffM2501 | if the name exists global, it just uses the perms localside if it's there |
| 08:19.54 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: yeah. but let's say I'm named "Bob" and I register on my server |
| 08:19.56 | JeffM2501 | it dosnt' know it's NOT local |
| 08:20.07 | JeffM2501 | anyone named bob gets your perms |
| 08:20.08 | DTRemenak | and give myself admin rights |
| 08:20.10 | JeffM2501 | so go reg on bzbb |
| 08:20.12 | JeffM2501 | NOW |
| 08:20.22 | DTRemenak | then someone else registers on bzbb as "Bob" and grabs my admin |
| 08:20.25 | DTRemenak | that would suck royally |
| 08:20.42 | JeffM2501 | how do you detect that? |
| 08:20.48 | JeffM2501 | in the cases where its NOT you |
| 08:20.54 | JeffM2501 | all admins must make sure they have bzbb |
| 08:21.04 | JeffM2501 | unless the disable all remotes |
| 08:21.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: it'd have to be in all cases of local vs remote conflict |
| 08:21.24 | JeffM2501 | so allways check your local passwords file? |
| 08:21.29 | jpa- | yes |
| 08:21.31 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 08:21.32 | JeffM2501 | and require an /identify |
| 08:21.33 | jpa- | local over remote |
| 08:21.46 | JeffM2501 | since the global pasword is NOT sent to the server |
| 08:22.12 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/TODO: world peace |
| 08:22.14 | DTRemenak | where's Nidhoggr when you need him |
| 08:22.15 | JeffM2501 | right now it is doing remote over local |
| 08:22.26 | DTRemenak | no, right now it grants remote local's permissions |
| 08:22.47 | JeffM2501 | well since there are only local perms that makes sese |
| 08:23.00 | JeffM2501 | what other rights would it grant? |
| 08:23.18 | DTRemenak | it wouldn't. that's the point - in case of conflict, zero the permissions |
| 08:23.20 | JeffM2501 | or are you saying if your a remote ONLY use the remote groups? |
| 08:23.27 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 08:23.45 | JeffM2501 | that screws up those who want global auth with local admin |
| 08:23.46 | DTRemenak | no, if you're a remote AND A LOCAL USER exists by the same name, THEN use only remote groups for that user |
| 08:23.46 | JeffM2501 | like me |
| 08:23.46 | brlcad | DTRemenak: I'd grant no permission before zero'ing permission.. |
| 08:23.50 | JeffM2501 | I found it very nice |
| 08:24.07 | brlcad | otherwise could abuse by registereing and joinign just to zero out perms |
| 08:24.09 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak: you would break my current setup |
| 08:24.12 | trepan_away | DTRemenak: i'm' bacm ;; and i'm n one tt be trfilceeedd oiaedf :) |
| 08:24.16 | JeffM2501 | I'd check for a local password |
| 08:24.23 | JeffM2501 | NOT just an entry in users |
| 08:24.26 | brlcad | hehe |
| 08:24.31 | jpa- | trepan_away: is that SHA1? |
| 08:24.31 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: yeah, that's what I'm saying |
| 08:24.44 | DTRemenak | check to see if a local user has /registered the same name |
| 08:24.45 | JeffM2501 | but then in your case you have to /identify |
| 08:24.49 | JeffM2501 | and that is not secure |
| 08:24.53 | DTRemenak | nooooo |
| 08:24.55 | brlcad | trepan_away: good times? |
| 08:25.17 | DTRemenak | ok. Bob registers "Bob" locally (/register password) |
| 08:25.28 | jpa- | bob has admin rights? |
| 08:25.31 | trepan_away | brlcad: no treallety |
| 08:25.31 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 08:25.36 | jpa- | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:25.41 | JeffM2501 | then an unknown bob logis in |
| 08:25.42 | DTRemenak | Alice registers "Bob" remotely (on bzbb) |
| 08:25.43 | JeffM2501 | he get only remote |
| 08:25.46 | JeffM2501 | till he /IDs |
| 08:25.58 | jpa- | sounds good |
| 08:26.04 | DTRemenak | Alice logs in as "Bob" which she has every right to do. What do we do? |
| 08:26.07 | JeffM2501 | then he sents his password plaintext to the server |
| 08:26.17 | jpa- | so if alice knows the pw, she can identify, too? |
| 08:26.18 | DTRemenak | currently she'd get all of Bob's permissions |
| 08:26.21 | JeffM2501 | we make /register add the user to bzbb :) |
| 08:26.32 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: I like that solution, but it's not gonna fly |
| 08:26.44 | JeffM2501 | you put a rocket on anything and it'll fly |
| 08:26.46 | trepan_away | brlcad: seeem to killl , kiall 3verionnnnnnnyye. |
| 08:27.02 | JeffM2501 | it's just a very very bad system |
| 08:27.04 | brlcad | trepan_away: heh |
| 08:27.29 | jpa- | trepan_away: you aren't drunk or over-tired, are you? |
| 08:27.29 | JeffM2501 | trepan_away: we want to name 2.0 "now shut the hell up" you cool with that? |
| 08:27.38 | DTRemenak | hah |
| 08:28.20 | jpa- | i loved "trrepack" |
| 08:28.35 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: the tarbal in your home dir will not untar |
| 08:28.53 | brlcad | that's not very nice of it |
| 08:29.01 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 08:29.49 | JeffM2501 | it makes stuffit expander cry |
| 08:29.49 | JeffM2501 | and quit unexpectedly |
| 08:29.50 | brlcad | ahh, that aint my fault.. prolly stuffit :) |
| 08:30.01 | JeffM2501 | it did your last one fine |
| 08:30.03 | brlcad | it has issues with tarballs sometimes |
| 08:30.23 | brlcad | i just decompressed it |
| 08:30.24 | JeffM2501 | will try cli |
| 08:30.36 | brlcad | so ther'es a .app in my home |
| 08:30.37 | JeffM2501 | clicking |
| 08:31.06 | JeffM2501 | it boots |
| 08:32.16 | brlcad | it it.. |
| 08:32.18 | brlcad | works??? |
| 08:32.24 | jpa- | whoah! |
| 08:33.42 | DTRemenak | hmph. there's really no easy way to tell if an existing user registered locally or remotely; password hashes are stored for both |
| 08:34.04 | DTRemenak | remote password hashes are just md5('*') but they're there, not null... |
| 08:34.31 | jpa- | if they are like that, how cant i /identify * |
| 08:34.47 | jpa- | how does it check against that? |
| 08:34.48 | JeffM2501 | I said boots |
| 08:34.50 | DTRemenak | I dunno, try it |
| 08:34.56 | JeffM2501 | it will not connect to the trees server |
| 08:34.57 | jpa- | hmm |
| 08:35.13 | JeffM2501 | tim is the only one who realy knows the global stuff |
| 08:35.17 | jpa- | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:35.19 | JeffM2501 | he just went off and did it |
| 08:35.37 | jpa- | so it checks it in /identify somehow to be local |
| 08:37.15 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: locked the mac up nice and good tho |
| 08:38.00 | brlcad | locked up how/when? |
| 08:38.17 | DTRemenak | SHIT! |
| 08:38.20 | DTRemenak | no, it works :) |
| 08:38.32 | JeffM2501 | on connecting |
| 08:38.36 | JeffM2501 | to trepans trees server |
| 08:38.45 | JeffM2501 | had to hardboot |
| 08:38.46 | DTRemenak | join one of my servers as "DTRemenak" or "Elmer" or "Romfis-Austria" |
| 08:38.50 | DTRemenak | and type /identify * |
| 08:38.53 | DTRemenak | it will ID you |
| 08:39.03 | brlcad | JeffM2501: ahh, that was probably just processing like a mofo |
| 08:39.05 | DTRemenak | who the f* designed this stupid system... |
| 08:39.37 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: no it never even GOT the map |
| 08:39.37 | brlcad | heh |
| 08:39.45 | JeffM2501 | just died on the attempt |
| 08:39.49 | JeffM2501 | also gave a TCP error |
| 08:40.08 | brlcad | hrm, try a simpler server |
| 08:40.15 | JeffM2501 | it's rebooting |
| 08:40.53 | DTRemenak | geez' |
| 08:41.46 | jpa- | DTRemenak: that is one hell of a bug :) |
| 08:42.08 | JeffM2501 | yeah simple world works |
| 08:42.09 | jpa- | DTRemenak: they probably ment to put the passwd md5 as '*', not md5 of * |
| 08:42.33 | DTRemenak | jpa-: they do |
| 08:42.47 | DTRemenak | but then when the server restarts, it reads that in and md5s it |
| 08:43.00 | DTRemenak | then the second time it restarts, it's written md5('*') |
| 08:43.03 | DTRemenak | so it reads that |
| 08:43.07 | jpa- | lol |
| 08:43.25 | jpa- | but why does it md5 it? |
| 08:43.28 | JeffM2501 | IIRC that was for conversions of old passwords |
| 08:43.37 | JeffM2501 | it used to be plaintext |
| 08:43.37 | jpa- | something to convert plaintext to md5 easily |
| 08:43.43 | jpa- | ok |
| 08:44.03 | brlcad | easy interception could be to detect "*" and the md5 of * and disallow both |
| 08:44.06 | jpa- | so put in passwdlength > 2 exit(too short passwd) |
| 08:44.29 | brlcad | or even just "*" |
| 08:44.38 | jpa- | it also protects from stupid users |
| 08:44.56 | brlcad | there's no protecting them |
| 08:46.41 | jpa- | so where should it detect *? |
| 08:46.45 | jpa- | in /identify? |
| 08:47.17 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: it works, it's just not the most stable it seems, 1/4 connections gives me a TCP socket error and kills it |
| 08:47.20 | JeffM2501 | even on simple maps |
| 08:47.23 | JeffM2501 | like decks |
| 08:47.28 | JeffM2501 | but the other times it works fine |
| 08:48.01 | JeffM2501 | getsockname() fails it says |
| 08:48.15 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: never md5 encode a "password" of *, since that allows anyone to /identify * against that user's callsign |
| 08:48.26 | DTRemenak | jpa-: thanks, btw |
| 08:48.42 | jpa- | DTRemenak: what did i go? |
| 08:48.44 | jpa- | -g+d |
| 08:49.01 | DTRemenak | <jpa->if they are like that, how cant i /identify * |
| 08:49.10 | DTRemenak | the answer was, you CAN |
| 08:49.19 | DTRemenak | which is a bad thing |
| 08:49.21 | brlcad | JeffM2501: only thing that comes to mind is old curl on 10.2 |
| 08:49.22 | jpa- | DTRemenak: oh, did i find a bug? :D |
| 08:49.28 | DTRemenak | seems that you did :) |
| 08:49.32 | JeffM2501 | tell em to upgrade then |
| 08:49.33 | DTRemenak | ~jpa-++ |
| 08:49.36 | brlcad | old opengl too |
| 08:49.44 | JeffM2501 | it was NOT fast |
| 08:50.06 | brlcad | wouldn't tell em to upgrade |
| 08:50.11 | brlcad | need the crash logs |
| 08:50.25 | JeffM2501 | dosn't crash |
| 08:50.26 | JeffM2501 | hangs |
| 08:50.44 | brlcad | then need interactive debuggig :) |
| 08:51.05 | JeffM2501 | it's like it's waiting for a socket to finish that dosnt' exist |
| 08:53.44 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: for that matter, never write a user with password * to passdb. |
| 08:54.04 | JeffM2501 | it's a UDP problem |
| 08:56.34 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: must be late, stupid mistake |
| 08:57.44 | jpa- | DTRemenak: haha, globals wouldn't get written? :) |
| 08:59.02 | DTRemenak | jpa-: no, they don't need to be written anyway |
| 08:59.06 | DTRemenak | it was an = instead of == |
| 08:59.38 | jpa- | oh :) |
| 09:00.21 | jpa- | but aren't they written so that no-one can locally register as global that has visited the server? |
| 09:00.45 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/DEVINFO: more new dir info |
| 09:00.52 | Chestal | frisch ists |
| 09:01.24 | DTRemenak | jpa-: they're still written to userdb, just not to passdb |
| 09:01.58 | jpa- | ohh, ok |
| 09:04.51 | brlcad | Chestal: fresh lists to you too! and g'morning |
| 09:10.54 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.159.8.23.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 09:12.32 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@231.61-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 09:12.53 | gina | cannot find input file: BZFlag.xcode/Makefile.in |
| 09:13.01 | brlcad | gina: update -dP |
| 09:13.12 | brlcad | and good morning |
| 09:13.19 | gina | good morning! |
| 09:13.52 | DTRemenak | Chestal: what should we do if a player logs in as a global user but a local user of the same already exists? |
| 09:14.27 | DTRemenak | easiest thing to do would be to not authenticate them at all. |
| 09:14.37 | gina | brlcad: does NOT work |
| 09:14.39 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-13-25.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:15.44 | gina | same error |
| 09:17.52 | brlcad | gina, what doesn't work? |
| 09:22.04 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ok if we just reject global logins for which local registered users exist? |
| 09:22.55 | Chestal | tag |
| 09:24.10 | Chestal | DTRemenak: I'm not sure what's best. The way it is now allows you to still /identify in case the list server has troubles, which is not bad. On the other hand, a player might be unaware that his local name is already taken in bzbb |
| 09:24.22 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@231.61-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 09:24.55 | DTRemenak | Chestal: the big problem with the way it is now occurs when the local and global callsigns are owned by different people |
| 09:25.04 | Chestal | yes, exactly |
| 09:25.22 | gina | cannot find input file: BZFlag.xcode/Makefile.in |
| 09:25.25 | gina | still |
| 09:25.36 | DTRemenak | I've written a patch to simply reject global logins if there's a local registered user with the same callsign, is that good enough? |
| 09:26.11 | DTRemenak | or should the global user have priority, essentially deregistering the local one? |
| 09:26.21 | DTRemenak | those are the only two choices without redesigning the whole system |
| 09:26.22 | brlcad | gina, cvs update -dP |
| 09:26.34 | brlcad | gina: then you need to start from ./autogen.sh again |
| 09:27.16 | DTRemenak | (which might be what it needs) |
| 09:27.40 | gina | ahhh |
| 09:28.11 | jpa- | DTRemenak: just release it and go to sleep |
| 09:28.19 | jpa- | local over remote is good, imho |
| 09:28.23 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 09:29.01 | Chestal | probably ok |
| 09:29.13 | Chestal | what does it mean? it will ignore the token? |
| 09:32.13 | DTRemenak | Chestal: pretty much |
| 09:32.26 | DTRemenak | it won't grant any permissions to the user, as if they hadn't logged in at all |
| 09:32.44 | DTRemenak | they'll still be able to /identify |
| 09:34.58 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 09:34.58 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: prevent local/remote user permission conflicts by rejecting global logins for which local logins already exist, with a message to ask an admin to deregister the existing local user. |
| 09:34.58 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: the alternative would be to automatically force a deregistration of the local user, with corresponding permanent loss of permissions. |
| 09:34.58 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: the advantage to this approach is that if the user is the same person, he can still use /identify to log in to his local account, rather than having his local account destroyed. |
| 09:35.04 | DTRemenak | whew, long commit message |
| 09:36.01 | DTRemenak | how much does anyone want to bet that Tim asks me to revert that? |
| 09:36.15 | brlcad | i'll bet a cookie |
| 09:36.28 | DTRemenak | hopefully he'll see the logic though |
| 09:36.48 | Chestal | it's not perfect, but the best for now I guess |
| 09:36.52 | brlcad | so we take naps and see what things look like in a few hours or start building? |
| 09:37.11 | DTRemenak | brlcad: your call |
| 09:37.20 | noyb | Got cvs again, Here's what I found during cvs 2.0 compile: http://pastebin.ca/4303 |
| 09:37.29 | brlcad | Chestal: your call :) |
| 09:38.27 | DTRemenak | if we're going to wait we should back the version number change out to prevent confusion |
| 09:38.47 | DTRemenak | if we're going to build now, let's do it _now_, 'cause I want to go to bed :) |
| 09:39.11 | brlcad | likewise |
| 09:39.34 | brlcad | how certain are you feeling that teh last change is safe? |
| 09:39.41 | DTRemenak | safe? as in... |
| 09:40.14 | brlcad | oh, cause some new bug .. like killing all local accounts |
| 09:40.25 | brlcad | or totally prevent authentication |
| 09:40.30 | *** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD9EA689D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:40.30 | DTRemenak | it will compile on everything, I'm certain. it will *almost* certainly act as expected. it will *probably* not have any nasty side effects. |
| 09:40.31 | Chestal | honestly, I would wait and do it tonight. I'd build and run server in the meantine, do some testing |
| 09:40.32 | brlcad | or global logins from working |
| 09:41.00 | brlcad | so shall it be then |
| 09:41.11 | *** part/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 09:41.13 | DTRemenak | do we back the version number change out or not? |
| 09:41.19 | jpa- | maybe a public releasecandidate etc? |
| 09:41.28 | jpa- | anon cvs will be broken, never the less |
| 09:41.32 | t-s | Still no 2 chars long callsigns allowed? |
| 09:41.55 | Chestal | t-s: I don't think so |
| 09:42.08 | DTRemenak | t-s: that's correct, as unfortunate as it may be |
| 09:43.02 | t-s | :-( |
| 09:43.29 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/date/buildDate.cxx: back up the protocol to test the most recent changes for still one more (half) day |
| 09:43.37 | brlcad | someone could try sneaking it in |
| 09:43.48 | jpa- | so i will compile newest anon cvs and put my servers up? :) |
| 09:44.09 | DTRemenak | brlcad: protocol never got bumped forward... |
| 09:45.05 | brlcad | er, i mean build version |
| 09:45.08 | DTRemenak | ah, ok, just the versions |
| 09:45.15 | DTRemenak | yeah, just read the commit msg and not the code :) |
| 09:45.39 | Chestal | poor ducati builds server, this will take a while |
| 09:46.04 | brlcad | Chestal: no worries, you got another good 6 hours or so before we wake up :) |
| 09:46.21 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I prolly won't be around for about 12 hours |
| 09:46.32 | jpa- | eww |
| 09:46.33 | brlcad | k |
| 09:46.37 | jpa- | you have to be! |
| 09:46.39 | jpa- | have to |
| 09:46.46 | jpa- | we want release :) |
| 09:46.48 | Chestal | any feature changs overnight? I guess not |
| 09:46.59 | brlcad | build fixes mostly |
| 09:46.59 | DTRemenak | no. try not to break anything :) |
| 09:47.07 | DTRemenak | oh, you mean over your night |
| 09:47.12 | Chestal | yep |
| 09:47.14 | DTRemenak | not over our night :) |
| 09:47.31 | DTRemenak | and no, the local-remote disambiguation was the only major change |
| 09:47.49 | jpa- | and /identify * stuff |
| 09:47.50 | brlcad | poor trepan is going to have a headache |
| 09:48.00 | jpa- | (is that still in the anoncvs? oh no!) |
| 09:48.02 | DTRemenak | big honking headache |
| 09:48.18 | DTRemenak | jpa-: it probably is... |
| 09:48.30 | brlcad | shall be rather despairiffic |
| 09:48.45 | DTRemenak | jpa-: clear your passdb file before you restart the server, you won't hit the bug until the second restart with the same passdb |
| 09:48.55 | jpa- | yup |
| 09:49.04 | brlcad | okay, so sleep time |
| 09:49.10 | brlcad | cya fellas |
| 09:49.20 | brlcad | try to keep it between the fence posts |
| 09:51.44 | *** topic/#bzflag by DTRemenak -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || 1.11.x builds http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Release date is sometime around NOW. || NOW SHUT THE HECK UP! |
| 09:51.58 | jpa- | DTRemenak: was just about to change :) |
| 09:52.01 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 09:57.45 | lan56 | dtremenak: jokes aside, what really is still needed till it really gets released? |
| 09:58.20 | jpa- | so sleep |
| 09:58.25 | jpa- | so people detect bugs |
| 09:58.49 | jpa- | but, we don't have the newest cvs snapshot to test with |
| 10:08.25 | mmu_man | #define NOW always tomorrow |
| 10:10.29 | ruskie | lol |
| 10:36.02 | *** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch) |
| 10:36.18 | *** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch) |
| 11:05.17 | *** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD9EA689D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:10.05 | jpa- | hmm |
| 11:10.11 | jpa- | it is 2.0.0 in anoncvs :) |
| 11:10.28 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p50820017.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:26.53 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch) |
| 11:37.36 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dll189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:41.53 | t-s | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1102948&group_id=1&atid=200001 |
| 11:43.24 | jpa- | hmph |
| 11:45.11 | t-s | it happened already yesterday. I can confirm it because I'm trying to update a file release |
| 11:46.21 | jpa- | maybe i should donate that 40MB harddrive to sf.. i don't need it myself :P |
| 11:48.01 | t-s | my ft client sends 353 kb and then the message pops up :-/ |
| 11:49.13 | t-s | jpa-: I am sure I won't donate my iPod |
| 11:49.27 | jpa- | you should! |
| 11:49.33 | jpa- | it is for a good use :P |
| 11:50.14 | t-s | ROTFL |
| 11:54.12 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (~david@the.dogs.bollo.cx) |
| 12:01.42 | *** join/#bzflag Taminator (~imat@pD9564D8F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:02.06 | Taminator | hi all |
| 12:05.10 | Taminator | t-s: everything ok with my client ? :) |
| 12:06.21 | t-s | Taminator: I am just looking what clients are used here... |
| 12:06.41 | Taminator | ok, no problem :) |
| 12:06.49 | Taminator | iam using epic on linux |
| 12:06.55 | jpa- | irssi on linux |
| 12:08.13 | Taminator | epic is a plain terminal client .... sucessor of ircII :) |
| 12:09.03 | t-s | I guess Colloquy is the opposite of epic ;-) |
| 12:09.39 | Taminator | t-s: sorry, dont know colloquy ... |
| 12:10.18 | Taminator | may someone can answer me a question ? |
| 12:10.50 | Taminator | i like to setup a ducati style server and having trouble with building denisty |
| 12:11.02 | t-s | Taminator: It is Mac OS X only :-p only thing that is bad is that sending files is not functional for me |
| 12:11.19 | Taminator | anyone know the exact -density value ? |
| 12:12.06 | Taminator | t-s: this maybee is the case if you located behind a router ? |
| 12:12.36 | t-s | Taminator: I am not. |
| 12:12.45 | Taminator | t-s: you need special masqerading settings to let ctpc packets trough |
| 12:13.08 | Taminator | ctcp even |
| 12:13.42 | Taminator | t-s: or you have build some firewall blocking this packets |
| 12:14.19 | |zongo| | Taminator: i think u can type /settings on ducati, or a similar command |
| 12:14.58 | Taminator | |zongo|: ah, thanks for the hint .... i'll try that :) |
| 12:15.19 | |zongo| | its /set exactly |
| 12:15.29 | t-s | Taminator: doh, it was a package filter activated. |
| 12:15.32 | |zongo| | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:29.29 | Taminator | |zongo|: checked this, but there is no density parameter .... all other parameters are identical |
| 12:32.21 | Taminator | if i use -density 4 -> to less random buildings |
| 12:32.21 | Taminator | if i use -density 5 -> to mutch random buildings |
| 12:47.19 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63) |
| 13:00.39 | Taminator | i'm going to blast some tanks .... bye all, thanks for help |
| 13:01.13 | t-s | Hmm, removing line 58 in configure.in seems to fix building of "BZFlag-2.0.0.20050116" on Mac OS X |
| 13:04.04 | jpa- | prebuilt cvs snapshot for windows seems to hang |
| 13:06.34 | t-s | Hmm, autogen.sh runs after it, but make still ends with same error as yesterday |
| 13:06.41 | t-s | make[3]: *** [SDLMain.o] Error 127 |
| 13:09.59 | cods | bzfquery.py should be updated to 0024 (at least, it's still the old value here) |
| 13:11.03 | jpa- | it is 0025 in cvs |
| 13:11.10 | cods | ah, or '0025', whatever :) |
| 13:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag g|n4 (~gigi@231.61-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 13:11.34 | cods | not yet tested bzfquery without change against 0025 though |
| 13:11.54 | jpa- | probably will work just the same |
| 13:12.00 | jpa- | olympics is running on 0025 |
| 13:12.18 | cods | ah.. i've to update the script for it |
| 13:13.11 | cods | appear to work without change except s/002[34]/0025/ |
| 13:15.40 | cods | but I guess it's too late now to fix it (unless main repository is already updated..) |
| 13:21.39 | jpa- | late? why? |
| 13:22.06 | cods | according to topic |
| 13:22.28 | jpa- | i would say 5 hours more |
| 13:22.49 | jpa- | while there was "2.0.0" in anoncvs for five hours |
| 13:23.19 | jpa- | but dtremenak went to sleep, and i think he is the one to compile windows build |
| 13:29.23 | cods | if I've followed correctly, I need to s/ADMIN/LOCAL.ADMIN/ user file ? |
| 13:29.35 | cods | s/user file/in user file/ |
| 13:30.37 | jpa- | and also, remove all md5 of * from the password db |
| 13:31.13 | cods | hmm, what? |
| 13:31.23 | cods | I've either '*' or a MD5.. I don't understand. |
| 13:32.03 | cods | ah, remove all entries with '*' instead of md5 ? |
| 13:32.27 | jpa- | remove *:s and 3389dae361af79b04c9c8e7057f60cc6 |
| 13:32.32 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-033-063.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:32.54 | jpa- | there was a exploitable bug with that, don't know if it is fixed in anoncvs yet |
| 13:33.20 | cods | what is '*:s' ? and about 3389[...], I just remove the line, or just the md5 part ? (sorry, not clear to me) |
| 13:33.33 | jpa- | the line |
| 13:33.51 | jpa- | is there is fredcods:* -> remove |
| 13:34.10 | jpa- | and if there is fredcods:3389dae.. -> remove |
| 13:34.17 | cods | ok, so I remove any line ending with '*' or with md5 '3389..' :) |
| 13:34.24 | jpa- | yes |
| 13:34.27 | cods | now, I understand :) |
| 13:34.56 | cods | thx |
| 13:35.00 | jpa- | np |
| 13:35.25 | jpa- | if the md5s come back, the bug is still present |
| 13:35.53 | jpa- | on your server, it could be a real problem since it gets reseted so often |
| 13:37.31 | cods | I'm using latests CVS (1hr old), I hope it's fixed :) |
| 13:38.32 | jpa- | connect with global login, quit, reset server, check the passdb |
| 13:43.17 | cods | look fine |
| 13:43.32 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63) |
| 13:43.34 | jpa- | so no 3389 and no * ? |
| 13:45.10 | cods | nope |
| 13:45.21 | jpa- | good, it is fixed then |
| 13:45.28 | jpa- | i'll grab that one too |
| 13:51.03 | jpa- | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:51.09 | jpa- | poor server :S |
| 13:51.20 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@231.61-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 13:51.34 | gina | oo: see through now back the old style? |
| 13:52.49 | gina | ahh ok |
| 13:53.00 | gina | sleep time:) |
| 14:12.02 | *** part/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 14:31.13 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:49.46 | amathis | hi guys! |
| 14:49.53 | amathis | anyone AWAKE? |
| 14:54.32 | cods | hmm? |
| 14:56.17 | Thumper_ | well of my 68 user lines... only 25 are left :/ |
| 14:56.42 | amathis | hmm |
| 14:56.44 | trepan | the lingering promise of a massive hangover... |
| 14:56.49 | amathis | I wish I could sleep. |
| 14:56.53 | amathis | trepan: heh :) |
| 14:57.40 | amathis | trepan: any bz patches that are outstanding? |
| 14:57.47 | amathis | I dunno which patches are approved |
| 14:58.27 | trepan | amathis: huh? i deleted all mine... you mean on SF? |
| 15:00.22 | amathis | trepan: yes |
| 15:00.31 | amathis | I don't wanna implement one that no one approves |
| 15:01.13 | trepan | best bet is to do nothing until the release is out, but that may be the residual booze talking |
| 15:01.32 | amathis | haha |
| 15:01.42 | trepan | you have something specific in mind? |
| 15:02.27 | amathis | nope |
| 15:02.30 | amathis | just cannot sleep. |
| 15:03.01 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-033-063.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:03.38 | trepan | the red/blue counterpoise is interesting |
| 15:05.21 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-033-063.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:09.34 | *** join/#bzflag sommertimer3 (wTTdVYdB@pool-70-23-61-179.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 15:12.53 | *** join/#bzflag Aribeth (~Aribeth@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:18.05 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.159.8.23.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 15:18.32 | trepan | seem to have lost both my mittens, and the sense of taste in the right side of my mouth |
| 15:18.55 | Aribeth | lol |
| 15:19.04 | trepan | ...and the ability to stand straight up |
| 15:19.52 | Aribeth | i have lost 4 hours of sleep and cannot find them |
| 15:20.50 | trepan | maybe they stole my 1.3 billion brain cells and fled for mexico |
| 15:21.11 | Aribeth | hehe |
| 15:21.37 | Aribeth | and my eyes have lost the ability to open |
| 15:22.08 | trepan | unfortunately, mine haven't |
| 15:22.34 | amathis | trepan: your braincells picked mine up, and I think they made it to mexico |
| 15:23.02 | Aribeth | i have no brain cells that i am aware of |
| 15:23.40 | Aribeth | they are prob in mexico having margarita's |
| 15:29.15 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-028-122.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:42.55 | *** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD9EA689D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:44.12 | *** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dll189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:56.00 | *** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD9EA7451.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:06.13 | *** join/#bzflag Brad2901 (~acbf5e98@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:08.21 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~381047b6@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:08.58 | Grumbler | looks like someone got a little grumby last night |
| 16:09.07 | Grumbler | err, grumpy |
| 16:09.27 | amathis | eh? |
| 16:13.27 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 16:19.52 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-18-70.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:26.44 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 16:29.09 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-037-148.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:34.37 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63) |
| 16:35.31 | orchid | ciao Tupone |
| 16:35.42 | Tupone | ciao orchid |
| 16:41.06 | blast007 | hrm...latest anon CVS won't compile in VC6 ;) |
| 16:42.24 | jpa- | what is a vc6? :) |
| 16:42.37 | blast007 | Visual C++ 6.0 |
| 16:43.03 | Tupone | can you fix it? |
| 16:43.15 | blast007 | not sure what the problem is yet |
| 16:43.28 | blast007 | gives me 15 errors in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\mswsock.h ;) |
| 16:43.32 | jpa- | latest build on my.bzflag.org does not work on win 98 |
| 16:43.52 | blast007 | jpa-: what version of DirectX? |
| 16:44.17 | blast007 | it needs 7.0 or higher |
| 16:44.32 | jpa- | blast007: .33 worked on same computer |
| 16:44.45 | blast007 | hmm |
| 16:45.53 | jpa- | i can't debug much, since i don't have any win98 computers |
| 16:45.55 | blast007 | 1 sec..I'll see if it works for me |
| 16:46.37 | jpa- | it was my friend who reported that, "it was just bluescreen fatal exception somewhere" |
| 16:47.11 | blast007 | the 1.11.38? |
| 16:47.26 | jpa- | .39? |
| 16:47.33 | jpa- | http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ |
| 16:47.36 | jpa- | or .38 |
| 16:47.39 | jpa- | strange |
| 16:47.44 | jpa- | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:48.08 | blast007 | heh... |
| 16:49.28 | jpa- | trepan_away: hopefully you don't mind i copied your rocks :) |
| 16:49.32 | blast007 | bah, only have DX6.1 on my 98 machine... |
| 16:51.25 | blast007 | http://blast.game-host.org/vc6/vc6_1.txt |
| 16:51.36 | Chestal | bei 6 hatt eich Intuition, 3 und 4 nur mit Suche gefunden |
| 16:51.39 | Chestal | oopsa |
| 16:57.42 | *** join/#bzflag Sbgodin (~Chris@sbgodin.dyndns.org) |
| 16:57.58 | Sbgodin | Hi all ! |
| 16:58.12 | blast007_ | hello |
| 16:59.00 | Sbgodin | I've a problem concerning @ rights. |
| 16:59.38 | Sbgodin | I'm on a natted network and my server is near me. I am globaly registered but I cannot have admin rights. |
| 17:02.31 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@lsanca1-ar8-183-162.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 17:03.18 | jpa- | Sbgodin: what version? |
| 17:03.40 | jpa- | Sbgodin: before or after anoncvs now-6hours |
| 17:04.23 | Sbgodin | the last cvs. Downloaded 1h ago. |
| 17:04.28 | Sbgodin | same for server. |
| 17:04.40 | jpa- | okay |
| 17:04.49 | jpa- | so DTRemenak's fix is active |
| 17:04.52 | jpa- | oh |
| 17:05.05 | jpa- | you have noticed admin.loca / admin stuff? |
| 17:05.13 | Sbgodin | I confirm : I don't see the message "bad token" anymore. |
| 17:05.49 | Sbgodin | Yes, i did it. Editing the config.cfg or, after a /password, typed "/setgroup sbgodin local.admin" |
| 17:06.36 | blast007 | hmm...seems there's a need to include winsock.h in URLManager.cxx in order for it to compile |
| 17:06.38 | jpa- | so no problem, bug, whatsoever? |
| 17:06.43 | blast007 | in VC6, that is... |
| 17:07.31 | Sbgodin | "/showgroup" answers : default, verified, admin, local.admin. |
| 17:07.46 | jpa- | Sbgodin: /groupperms? |
| 17:07.47 | Sbgodin | Arrhrg !! local.admin. I used "admin.local" :-( |
| 17:07.53 | Sbgodin | Wait... |
| 17:08.20 | jpa- | ha |
| 17:08.24 | jpa- | my problem |
| 17:08.28 | jpa- | or mistake |
| 17:08.54 | Sbgodin | (phone call) |
| 17:11.11 | Sbgodin | boh !! It was that. Mistake between "local.admin" and "admin.local" :-o It does not warn when a group doen't exist ! |
| 17:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_away (~blast@dialup-4.159.47.142.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 17:12.17 | Sbgodin | btw, the patch is made to not check request from a non-routable adress ? |
| 17:12.53 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.159.47.142.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 17:16.36 | blast007 | VC6 non-SDL build: LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file "sdlmain.lib" |
| 17:17.23 | blast007 | nvm, fixed |
| 17:18.01 | amathis | how would anyone know about music without MtV's TRL. >_< |
| 17:19.33 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ControlPanel.cxx: redraw tabs on color change with fully opaque control panel; uncolor all tabs when viewing "All" tab |
| 17:21.04 | Chestal | Sbgodin: yes, I see it in current CVS code, will test it now |
| 17:21.49 | Sbgodin | I did. It works fine, wether people does not confuse "local.admin" and "admin.local" ;-) |
| 17:23.12 | Sbgodin | It seems that the system does not like local registering. I had to remove my local account to login. |
| 17:24.02 | Chestal | Sbgodin: the scheme is now that an account is either local or global |
| 17:24.12 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:24.27 | Chestal | Sbgodin: so a global login cannot 'hide' a previously locally registered user |
| 17:25.00 | Chestal | I created a local emergency admin account which I can /identify to in case the list server goes down |
| 17:25.12 | Chestal | (or use -password instead) |
| 17:25.45 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 17:25.51 | amathis | hmm... so is there an actualy use of 'Password' blank yet? |
| 17:25.56 | amathis | hi SportChick |
| 17:26.03 | SportChick | hi amathis |
| 17:26.39 | *** join/#bzflag sommertimer3 (5farCLAr@pool-70-23-61-179.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 17:27.04 | Chestal | amathis: hmm? |
| 17:28.35 | amathis | Chestal: in the bzflag join server menu |
| 17:28.42 | amathis | the 'Password:' blank |
| 17:29.18 | Chestal | well, I'd use no password in the menu whenever I do not use my bzbb 'callsign' |
| 17:30.26 | amathis | so if I registered on bzbb with amathis, I could use that call / pass in game? |
| 17:31.04 | Chestal | yes, and you would automatically be verified on any public server (unless a local login with same name exists there) |
| 17:35.18 | Sbgodin | Chestal: thanks for all. Then I should have an emergency account in case of network is down ? |
| 17:35.38 | Chestal | Sbgodin: I would recommend either that or -password |
| 17:37.16 | Chestal | hmm, does bzadmin do the token stuff? |
| 17:38.45 | brlcad | i added list server support and tim did "something" with the tokens.. don't recall if he finished, but I believe he may have |
| 17:39.17 | brlcad | trepan: feeling better? =) |
| 17:40.16 | trepan | uhm, i've got cereal, everything feels a little better when there's cereal |
| 17:40.36 | amathis | trepan: *Milk Crunchage |
| 17:40.49 | amathis | :) |
| 17:41.51 | brlcad | Chestal: so where we at? |
| 17:41.59 | Sbgodin | Thanks for help :-) bye |
| 17:42.05 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user) |
| 17:42.05 | brlcad | time to tag and tag and post? |
| 17:43.21 | amathis | brlcad: did someone implement the silent flag, or is this not wanted? |
| 17:43.42 | brlcad | amathis: ehh? |
| 17:43.51 | jpa- | tag sounds good |
| 17:43.59 | amathis | brlcad: a patch a while back.. -SL flag.. |
| 17:44.04 | amathis | makes you silent? |
| 17:44.18 | SportChick | is something wrong with gm tracking now? |
| 17:44.19 | *** join/#bzflag jolly (jolly@B9-174.DATANET.NYU.EDU) |
| 17:44.24 | amathis | or possibly turns off sound. |
| 17:44.33 | shorty114 | hi jolly |
| 17:44.46 | jolly | hey shorty |
| 17:44.51 | SportChick | brlcad: I'm having problems with gm tracking |
| 17:44.56 | amathis | brlcad: yes, makes the game silent for the person with the bad flahg |
| 17:45.08 | SportChick | I can lock just fine, but it never hits |
| 17:45.57 | sgk284 | maybe your just firing against experienced users |
| 17:46.07 | sgk284 | i was using it yesterday fine :) |
| 17:46.17 | brlcad | amathis: sounds like a useless flag -- some people play without sound |
| 17:46.27 | jpa- | me \o/ |
| 17:46.35 | jpa- | the bullet noises are too loud |
| 17:46.56 | sgk284 | i briefly had to when 2.6.10 made my sound card crap out, its not that bad, not worth a flag |
| 17:48.06 | amathis | brlcad: good point, just looking through old patches... any flags that want included before release? |
| 17:48.07 | SportChick | but I had some straight shots - no reason it shouldn't track |
| 17:48.48 | trepan | jpa-: edit fire.wav to decrease its volume, if it's a real concern for you |
| 17:49.04 | sgk284 | hmm... when i get a chance, unless some other dev can answer this, i'll check the cvs commits and see if its been modified |
| 17:49.22 | jpa- | trepan: well, sounds do not make it more fun, anyway :) |
| 17:50.14 | brlcad | amathis: oh heck no -- we're feature frozen for things like new flags |
| 17:50.15 | brlcad | jpa-: or turn your volume down |
| 17:50.48 | jpa- | brlcad: other sounds go unhearable :) |
| 17:51.37 | amathis | brlcad: what does this mean? |
| 17:51.49 | amathis | brlcad: what is keeping the release? |
| 17:51.53 | brlcad | i don't recall the shot sound getting amplified anytime recently |
| 17:52.16 | TimRiker | I wish people would talk to me before making fundamental changes to central login. |
| 17:52.43 | jpa- | TimRiker: what has been made? |
| 17:53.00 | brlcad | TimRiker: that's one of the reasons why we didn't post last night |
| 17:53.11 | TimRiker | the change that you can't have a central login and a local login with the same name. |
| 17:53.27 | Chestal | TimRiker: what's in place now is one way to solve that issue |
| 17:53.31 | TimRiker | I _want_ to have the same login in both. |
| 17:53.32 | Chestal | it was unaddressed before |
| 17:53.51 | TimRiker | it was addressed. it worked. now it does not. |
| 17:54.00 | Chestal | no, the old way was broken |
| 17:54.06 | Chestal | you might have a local account with /register |
| 17:54.16 | Chestal | it might or might not have an equal one in bzbb |
| 17:54.22 | Chestal | you cannot know |
| 17:54.25 | TimRiker | the new way is broken. if my.bzflag goes down, all admins will have to change nicks. |
| 17:54.33 | Chestal | even if there is none in bzbb, someone might register one in bzbb with same name |
| 17:54.39 | *** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 17:54.48 | Chestal | this makes local accounts with names that have not been registered in bzbb worthless |
| 17:55.16 | brlcad | if I create a tofu admin account on my server (where global is learner), then someone can register tofu and get access to my config -- and it would be completely unknown to me |
| 17:55.35 | TimRiker | and the new scheme is broken too, just in a different way. |
| 17:55.52 | Chestal | if lsit server is down, there is a problem now, yes |
| 17:56.12 | Chestal | a solution towith -password or an emegrency local admin account solves this somewhat |
| 17:56.19 | Chestal | list server outage should be rare |
| 17:56.24 | TimRiker | and it did before too. |
| 17:56.38 | Chestal | and cops/admins are supposed to rely on bzbb groups anyway |
| 17:56.57 | Chestal | to make them work without bzbb, I'd have to duplicate all groups |
| 17:57.21 | Chestal | but I am open for suggestions,IMHO the new way is less brokenthan the old way (which just didn't care) |
| 17:57.31 | TimRiker | ok. back to my point. I'm the designer and primary implementor of the central login system. does anyone debate that? |
| 17:57.54 | TimRiker | and this is a fundamental change to it. do you debate that either? |
| 17:57.54 | jpa- | (silence) |
| 17:58.14 | jpa- | not so fundamental, i think |
| 17:58.18 | Chestal | I wouldn't necessarily call it fundamental |
| 17:58.22 | Chestal | it only applies to some special case |
| 17:58.29 | TimRiker | so it seems clear to me that if folks want to make a fundamental change to a feature that they should talk to the designer of that feature _before_ makeing the change. |
| 17:58.34 | TimRiker | is that unreasonable? |
| 17:58.45 | Chestal | changes can always be undone |
| 17:58.59 | Chestal | the issue has been in TODO for some days, though |
| 17:59.00 | TimRiker | ok. undo it. then let's discuss. |
| 17:59.02 | jpa- | was it a feature not to care about duplicate accounts? |
| 17:59.02 | Chestal | and wasn't addressed |
| 17:59.19 | TimRiker | the TODO if I'm not mistaken, was to discuss it. |
| 17:59.31 | Chestal | local+global jojned accounts are somewhat hard to manage anyway |
| 18:00.01 | Chestal | can you set a password for an accoutn which started as global? |
| 18:00.01 | TimRiker | Chestal: I'm completely open to discussions on improvements. |
| 18:00.03 | brlcad | that's rediculous.. the change was made and dtr waited to discuss it. no harm done |
| 18:00.04 | SportChick | I need some help testing something - help please? |
| 18:00.16 | amathis | SportChick: watcha need? |
| 18:00.42 | TimRiker | brlcad: ? explain what you mean by "dtr waited to discuss it" ? |
| 18:00.43 | Chestal | sgk284: it should support both at the same time |
| 18:00.55 | Chestal | the details are what needs to be sorted out |
| 18:00.57 | SportChick | I need someone to join with me |
| 18:01.04 | sgk284 | sporty, what server |
| 18:01.12 | amathis | SportChick: where? |
| 18:01.17 | brlcad | TimRiker: we've been prepared and ready to release all week and the release was going to happen yet there was one item remaining in the todo list from you |
| 18:01.31 | brlcad | so we reviewed it and addressed it |
| 18:01.35 | SportChick | first server on the list |
| 18:01.43 | brlcad | we were very ready to release |
| 18:01.49 | amathis | SportChick: 1.11.x? |
| 18:01.51 | brlcad | and did not, so that we could discuss it |
| 18:01.55 | SportChick | .38 |
| 18:01.59 | SportChick | I'm the only one on server |
| 18:02.01 | amathis | just compiled :) |
| 18:02.42 | brlcad | so the alternative would have been to "do nothing" until you show up.. that simply doesn't work, you disappear for too long |
| 18:02.47 | brlcad | we'd get nothing done |
| 18:02.48 | jpa- | 11:36:01 < DTRemenak> how much does anyone want to bet that Tim asks me to |
| 18:02.49 | jpa- | revert that? |
| 18:03.02 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 18:03.09 | amathis | SportChick: don't see it... |
| 18:03.13 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/man/bzfs.6s: ADMIN is now LOCAL.ADMIN (man page needs to be changed to talk about global logins/groups) |
| 18:03.15 | TimRiker | brlcad: I've been here quite a bit. I don't recall anyone mentioning the proposal. please explain what you mean by 'discuss'. I would assume that 'discuss'ing it would involve some contact with me. perhaps I'm outta line. |
| 18:03.30 | amathis | I see three servers with players |
| 18:03.53 | jpa- | TimRiker: discuss meant that he waited not to release 2.0.0 before letting you see the change |
| 18:04.17 | TimRiker | so I guess I do have a different idea of discuss. |
| 18:05.06 | JeffM2501 | you do :) |
| 18:05.15 | JeffM2501 | and good morning |
| 18:05.20 | Chestal | hi Jeff |
| 18:05.27 | JeffM2501 | hi |
| 18:05.41 | brlcad | TimRiker: only relatively recently have you been. i'm referring to the discussion we should be having now about the merits of the current solution versus some alternative that addresses the problem -- not flaming DTRemenak for addressing a listed todo in the middle of the night for release preping |
| 18:06.14 | TimRiker | ok |
| 18:06.17 | Chestal | well, any ideas on how to solve it in a good way? I think we need these: |
| 18:06.32 | TimRiker | I'm looking for a solution that allows for the central list server going missing. |
| 18:06.40 | Chestal | 1) account which are explictly created as local accounts must not be authenticated against bzbb |
| 18:07.01 | Chestal | 2) accoutsn which are created via global login should also have option of having local password |
| 18:07.10 | TimRiker | I was pondering a user flag so each account could have or not have that permission. |
| 18:07.25 | Chestal | with the odl scheme, 2) coudl be done by using /register first, than later come with global login |
| 18:07.35 | Chestal | can I global-login, then use /setpass or something? |
| 18:08.02 | Chestal | /register cannot be used, once I logged in with bzbb |
| 18:09.11 | TimRiker | /setpass could work. |
| 18:10.02 | TimRiker | we still don't have an option for bzfs to disable use of central logins. |
| 18:10.32 | Chestal | ok, /setpass works already |
| 18:10.45 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: oh, and good morning to you. |
| 18:11.12 | Chestal | probbly still need a per-user flag somehow |
| 18:11.32 | TimRiker | that's along the lines of what I've been thinking. |
| 18:11.46 | Chestal | it could have a default, i.e. when you create account by /register, default is local user, if you first login via bzbb, then flag is global user |
| 18:11.55 | Chestal | maybe changeable |
| 18:11.56 | TimRiker | if you don't have a passdb, then /register /setpass /identify etc are disabled. |
| 18:13.17 | JeffM2501 | looks like I came at a 'fun' time. |
| 18:13.23 | TimRiker | Chestal: I'm confused as to what you are proposing... are you saying any local account gets converted to a global only account when someone logs in using that nick? |
| 18:13.32 | Chestal | TimRiker: nono |
| 18:13.53 | Chestal | TimRiker: I want a flag which basically says 'account is local only' |
| 18:14.02 | Chestal | TimRiker: questin remains how to set this flag |
| 18:14.06 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.159.47.142.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 18:14.34 | Chestal | TimRiker: it could be automatically set to 'true' by /register and to 'false' by successfull bzbb login |
| 18:14.48 | Chestal | but probably should be changeable later, not sure |
| 18:14.57 | JeffM2501 | soudns like you jsut want to save the state of how the account was first made |
| 18:14.57 | sgk284 | but something tells me i shouldn't comment:) |
| 18:15.03 | JeffM2501 | why not just save them in difrent user DBs |
| 18:15.26 | JeffM2501 | if you save that state then you ensure that all other auth of that user is done the same way |
| 18:15.40 | Chestal | JeffM2501: if the flag is set to true, both token and /identify should work |
| 18:15.50 | brlcad | Yes, that's what I'd like too .. ability to have accounts that are local that if/when they exist are independent of the globals (so I can have my tofu local, and not get overridden by a global tofu) |
| 18:15.52 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:15.59 | JeffM2501 | that makes sense |
| 18:16.29 | JeffM2501 | there were not treated any difrent before right? |
| 18:16.32 | JeffM2501 | that was the problem |
| 18:16.34 | JeffM2501 | with the spoofing |
| 18:16.57 | TimRiker | sgk284: currently (well, I say currently, I mean before DT started "discussing it") any local group memberships co-exist with any central group membership. but only local memberships show up when you only use /identify. |
| 18:17.05 | JeffM2501 | global and local were not in sync in their uniqueness. |
| 18:17.13 | Chestal | if I want to use a bzbb group, say ducaticop, I assign permissions to that group in my local groupdb. Can I additionally define group membership localle for users for that group? I think yes? |
| 18:17.39 | sgk284 | TimRiker, oh okay |
| 18:17.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah, a local user can have that group too |
| 18:18.00 | JeffM2501 | at least in the origonal user stuff |
| 18:18.21 | TimRiker | brlcad: I am somewhat concerned with namespace. if I join a server and see "@brlcal" I naturally assume it's you. in your case it might not be. |
| 18:18.22 | Chestal | so, basically the only question remains is how to implement that flag |
| 18:18.44 | TimRiker | s/@brlcal/@brlcad/ |
| 18:18.52 | Pimpinella | is there already doku about groups, permisions, local, global and identification types, local and global? |
| 18:19.06 | TimRiker | Pimpinella: doku? |
| 18:19.14 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker: but isn't the only way to ensure that, to remove local reg totaly |
| 18:19.15 | Pimpinella | dokumentation |
| 18:19.26 | JeffM2501 | if your doing remote |
| 18:19.29 | Pimpinella | how to set this all up |
| 18:19.54 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: perhaps. or to show it differently, ie # instead of @ or something. |
| 18:19.56 | Chestal | Pimpinella: not really, and as you see, parts of it are still in a state of flux |
| 18:20.04 | JeffM2501 | unless is there some sort of userID for each bzbb user? |
| 18:20.06 | Pimpinella | yeah |
| 18:20.08 | JeffM2501 | maybe that could be sent |
| 18:20.15 | JeffM2501 | and local users get like -1 |
| 18:20.21 | JeffM2501 | so the server knows they are diferent |
| 18:20.22 | brlcad | TimRiker: that is a good point, perhaps some means to denote that a global user signed on and didn't obtain any permission (perhaps via "-" in front of the callsign or .. "/" or "x" to show it conflicted on a local-only account) |
| 18:20.45 | brlcad | it should be rare that someone would have many local-only accounts |
| 18:20.56 | sgk284 | brlcad, so your saying two people could sign on with the same name, only one having admin permissions though? |
| 18:21.15 | JeffM2501 | not at the same time |
| 18:21.34 | brlcad | sgk284: one account (a local admin) is not registered globally, the other would be a global login |
| 18:21.54 | brlcad | right, you couldn't both be on at the same time just because of callsign collisions |
| 18:22.04 | TimRiker | brlcad: or might be registered globally, just not verified globally at the moment. |
| 18:22.07 | Chestal | to me, each server has its own trust 'space' |
| 18:22.28 | Chestal | I have to trust the server owner anyway, might be doing all kinds of things with a patched server |
| 18:22.49 | TimRiker | Chestal: agreed... and? |
| 18:22.52 | sgk284 | brlcad, oay so when you logged in, it would check your password against both the local and public accounts? and depending upon which it matches determines your rights? |
| 18:22.57 | Chestal | so I cannot trust the +/@ display when I don't trust the server |
| 18:23.19 | trepan | would be nice to implement a verification challenge that didn't use the bzfs server |
| 18:23.23 | TimRiker | sgk284: servers never see your global password. this is by design. |
| 18:23.40 | sgk284 | that makes sense:) |
| 18:23.43 | JeffM2501 | that's why I was thinking of sending the bzbb userID |
| 18:24.04 | JeffM2501 | users made globaly get the ID |
| 18:24.10 | JeffM2501 | localy the get some null ID |
| 18:24.17 | TimRiker | Chestal: true. and that's always the case, but coding something would help on all the normal unhacked servers. |
| 18:24.17 | JeffM2501 | then logic could be done based on that |
| 18:24.22 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 18:24.30 | brlcad | sgk284: in particular to the situation I have, say I start a server and create a set of local admin accounts, one being "tofu". I don't bother to register it because I can't link it to my other callsigns as an alias -- so then time passes and another player does register the name. The should NOT get my admin permission if why log in to my server simply because they registered "tofu" globally. |
| 18:24.54 | brlcad | sgk284: I think ideally that just requires as chestal put, some means to denot the player is local-only |
| 18:25.01 | Chestal | accounts created with /register should never allow bzbb logins |
| 18:25.02 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: I'm not seeing that you gain anything with the uid that the token does not already provide? |
| 18:25.19 | JeffM2501 | the token is not unique across sessions |
| 18:25.22 | brlcad | and some means to denote that the player conflicted with a local-only account |
| 18:25.33 | JeffM2501 | what if I change my name on bzbb to something else, |
| 18:25.34 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: ok, but what do you gain? |
| 18:25.38 | JeffM2501 | somone else pick up my name |
| 18:25.43 | JeffM2501 | yet some server hasn't change my username |
| 18:25.51 | JeffM2501 | on the local admin file |
| 18:25.56 | JeffM2501 | that user can now get my perms |
| 18:25.57 | Chestal | I can change username on bzbb? |
| 18:26.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:26.04 | Chestal | uhm |
| 18:26.06 | JeffM2501 | if the ID was sent |
| 18:26.09 | JeffM2501 | there would be a missmatch |
| 18:26.15 | JeffM2501 | and perms would not be given |
| 18:26.20 | JeffM2501 | and the account flaged |
| 18:26.33 | JeffM2501 | even if the case with your local/global flag |
| 18:26.50 | TimRiker | ok. so it would help people who voluntarily give thier account names away by changing nicks. On the flip side: |
| 18:26.51 | Chestal | that's somewhat a different issue, though |
| 18:27.03 | sgk284 | okay, but ignoring @ and focusing on +, if a local and public user both have registered sgk284 on lets say Viper's server, both will show up as + in the list of callsigns but personally i wouldnt want someone impersonating me |
| 18:27.09 | JeffM2501 | is is a difrent issue, that can be solved at the same time I feel |
| 18:27.28 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker: they can't do aliasing, so yeah they probably will. |
| 18:27.30 | TimRiker | folks could then change nicks gloablly repeatedly, login on servers and "lock" that account, lather rinse repeat. |
| 18:27.56 | sgk284 | i think if(user.hasLocalAccount()){ auth against local db} else { auth against bzbb} is the best solution... i may be speaking out of ignorance though |
| 18:28.07 | brlcad | sgk284: right, hence why I'd suggest "/" or "x" to denote that there was a conflict |
| 18:28.21 | JeffM2501 | then maybe don't lock, just log the IP as abuse |
| 18:28.33 | JeffM2501 | just pointing out stuff that can happen in the current system |
| 18:28.33 | Chestal | sgk284: I think we want the possibility to global and local auth the same account |
| 18:28.44 | TimRiker | if you don't lock, then you have not prevented what you set out to prevent, no? |
| 18:28.51 | JeffM2501 | I know I want to not have local passwords, even for admin |
| 18:28.58 | JeffM2501 | I know my acocunt in on bzbb |
| 18:29.19 | JeffM2501 | if you sent the ID, and a fake "bob" logs in |
| 18:29.25 | JeffM2501 | just log the IP, and don't give perms |
| 18:29.32 | JeffM2501 | that's good engouh |
| 18:29.36 | JeffM2501 | it' safe |
| 18:29.41 | brlcad | Chestal: that should be possible just by not adding a "local-only" flag to the local account |
| 18:29.50 | Chestal | brlcad: yes, if we had this flag :-) |
| 18:29.55 | JeffM2501 | and then the owner can pull the perms on "bob" as a remote account |
| 18:30.01 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: and what's a "fake bob" if your server has no local logins? |
| 18:30.14 | JeffM2501 | a bob that has a ID missmatch |
| 18:30.31 | Chestal | so bob changed his name on bzbb or deleted his accounts? |
| 18:30.43 | JeffM2501 | the local userfile that stored the bob username from the first remote login, has his userID# |
| 18:30.58 | JeffM2501 | bob changed to SUPERbob |
| 18:31.16 | JeffM2501 | nid didn't change his local users file to reflect the name change |
| 18:31.21 | JeffM2501 | knightmare changes his name to bob |
| 18:31.27 | Chestal | personally, I find the ability to change bzbb name irritating |
| 18:31.31 | JeffM2501 | bob was an admin on secretplace |
| 18:31.42 | JeffM2501 | it can be disabled |
| 18:31.51 | JeffM2501 | will piss off the aliasers |
| 18:31.52 | Chestal | even if it were only forums |
| 18:31.54 | JeffM2501 | but it can be done |
| 18:31.55 | TimRiker | where this "bob" was a trusted admin on secretplace, that is not "bob" on the forums. |
| 18:32.07 | JeffM2501 | he was both |
| 18:32.11 | JeffM2501 | he was bob on the forums |
| 18:32.13 | JeffM2501 | and an admin |
| 18:32.19 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-18-70.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:32.21 | JeffM2501 | but today he wants to be superbob |
| 18:32.25 | JeffM2501 | so he changes his name |
| 18:32.35 | JeffM2501 | freeing up his name |
| 18:33.05 | TimRiker | then he runs the risk of someone taking his "bob" nick. I agree with Chestal, I find I find changing nicks annoying. |
| 18:33.07 | JeffM2501 | heck as I think about it now, the userID on bzbb is allways unique, you could do aliasing using the ID as the key, not the name :) |
| 18:33.19 | JeffM2501 | anoying as it may be, it can happen. |
| 18:33.25 | JeffM2501 | just pointint it oug |
| 18:33.31 | brlcad | don't want to end up with a graveyard of old unusable nicks |
| 18:33.32 | JeffM2501 | out even :) |
| 18:33.40 | Chestal | hmm, hmm |
| 18:33.48 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: why not we have one now |
| 18:33.53 | TimRiker | and then any local granted permissions would be "3242342: ADMIN" which is who exactly? |
| 18:34.02 | JeffM2501 | I'd put both |
| 18:34.09 | JeffM2501 | the name and the key |
| 18:34.14 | brlcad | USER.ID ? |
| 18:34.21 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:34.28 | JeffM2501 | and just do some smart logic |
| 18:34.29 | Chestal | this sounds like a somewhat bigger change |
| 18:34.38 | JeffM2501 | user.user.user.user.id |
| 18:34.41 | JeffM2501 | for n users |
| 18:34.49 | JeffM2501 | that woudl solve your aliasing issue too |
| 18:35.19 | JeffM2501 | love the tok! |
| 18:35.38 | TimRiker | so "leet" changes his name to "bob" while "bob" is "superbob" and then logs in everywhere. later the real "bob" gets user permission granted by the admin, whoadds to the "bob(234234):" line thereby granting admin rights to "leet", not to "bob". this is the feature you are asking for? |
| 18:35.42 | JeffM2501 | it also gives you a way to show nick history |
| 18:36.06 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (xl-110@dialup-4.158.198.151.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 18:36.14 | JeffM2501 | no bob would have been bob(123234) when he got admin the first time |
| 18:36.25 | JeffM2501 | leet would change to bob(234234) |
| 18:36.30 | TimRiker | assuming he logged into every server before leet did. |
| 18:36.33 | JeffM2501 | and server would say "dude your not the real bob" |
| 18:36.59 | JeffM2501 | if he didn't then the new leet bob would have got admin on thsoe servers as leet, not bob. |
| 18:37.21 | TimRiker | assuming he had logged into said servers as leet before. |
| 18:37.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:37.42 | JeffM2501 | the ID becomes who you REALY are |
| 18:37.50 | JeffM2501 | so all the perms stay with out |
| 18:37.52 | JeffM2501 | you |
| 18:37.55 | JeffM2501 | not your name |
| 18:38.00 | TimRiker | though there is nothing preventing leet from creating a newleet account and doing the same hack from there. |
| 18:38.11 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 18:38.33 | JeffM2501 | hack? |
| 18:39.19 | TimRiker | ie: leet sees bob as superbob, creates a new bob account (with a new email) and logs in everywhere with that (if the servers let him) and then changes the account to newleet when he's done. |
| 18:39.57 | JeffM2501 | but he would not get any of the old bob's permisions |
| 18:40.08 | JeffM2501 | since it would be a new accoutn, it woudl have it's own groups |
| 18:40.10 | JeffM2501 | and a new ID |
| 18:40.24 | TimRiker | right, but he can lock bob out of any servers where bob had not been before. |
| 18:40.36 | JeffM2501 | well that all depends on how you handle confilcts |
| 18:40.50 | TimRiker | furthermore, admins on those server will think the real bob is a hacker if he ever tries to login. |
| 18:40.51 | JeffM2501 | if you lock, sure |
| 18:41.15 | JeffM2501 | if you just move then name to the last authed key, then there is no problem |
| 18:41.44 | TimRiker | then leet can login as "bob" everywhere and get permissions whilst bob is superbob. |
| 18:41.47 | JeffM2501 | when bob relogs as bob, the server sees the confilict, knows it was a name change, and pulls bob from newleet's key and put's it onto bob's key |
| 18:42.03 | JeffM2501 | no cus leet dosn't have bobs ID |
| 18:42.24 | JeffM2501 | perms in this case are never give on name |
| 18:42.26 | JeffM2501 | only ID |
| 18:42.29 | TimRiker | you just moved it to the last authed key. that's leet's |
| 18:42.33 | JeffM2501 | name is just a human readable refrence |
| 18:42.43 | JeffM2501 | just the NAME, not the perms |
| 18:42.50 | JeffM2501 | now bob has leet's key and perms |
| 18:43.01 | JeffM2501 | if bob gets his name back and relogs |
| 18:43.11 | JeffM2501 | the bob name moves to bob's key and perms, and he's back |
| 18:44.21 | Chestal | the question is how to handle local passwords with this scheme |
| 18:44.26 | TimRiker | true, but leet still had bob's perms while bob was superbob. or he can lock bob out of those perms on any server bob had not previously visited. depends on how you design the uid locking. |
| 18:44.37 | JeffM2501 | no tim, how did leet get bob's perms |
| 18:44.49 | JeffM2501 | when he loged in as leet bob, bob was added to his leet key, with NO perms. |
| 18:45.05 | Chestal | when authenticating to bzfs, the name should not even be used |
| 18:45.12 | JeffM2501 | BINGO! |
| 18:45.19 | Chestal | only the id, which the client got from list server when it got the token |
| 18:45.25 | TimRiker | he logged in a newleet bob, where newleet had not logged in anywhere before. |
| 18:45.54 | JeffM2501 | so in that case newleetbob on that server got default perms |
| 18:46.00 | JeffM2501 | since he didn't exist on that server |
| 18:46.05 | JeffM2501 | whopty do |
| 18:46.27 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: and "bob" get's labeled a cracker if he ever tries to join the server. |
| 18:46.40 | JeffM2501 | or just as somone who had a name changed |
| 18:46.49 | JeffM2501 | you don't have to lable them all as crackers |
| 18:46.53 | JeffM2501 | I'd just log them |
| 18:47.12 | JeffM2501 | looking over the logs may go ..ohh somone tried to gank his name, yet he got it back |
| 18:47.40 | JeffM2501 | but you seem very against the idea, so just drop it, i was just thinking out loud that's all |
| 18:47.50 | TimRiker | Chestal: which means that admins need to base all permissions off a uid instead of a nick which is the issue I'm rasing as problematic. |
| 18:48.01 | JeffM2501 | trying to offer and discuss, I think you have the idea, I'm sure you'll choose accordingly |
| 18:48.09 | TimRiker | I don't know you as 654. I know you as Chestal. |
| 18:48.12 | Chestal | TimRiker: I think at least in the long run, the id is the only way to go |
| 18:48.20 | Chestal | we need something whichis guaranteed to be unique |
| 18:48.31 | Chestal | but this needs some more thinking, it's not a quick change |
| 18:48.43 | TimRiker | I'd prefer that nicks be unique. |
| 18:48.49 | Chestal | TimRiker: yes, bzfs must store last known name, so it can do a callsign->id mapping based on that |
| 18:48.51 | Chestal | for the commands |
| 18:48.54 | JeffM2501 | can't happen if you mix local and remote |
| 18:49.30 | Chestal | it is a bit confusing |
| 18:49.43 | Chestal | on would hope that name changes are rare,though |
| 18:49.58 | JeffM2501 | I think they will be more common now |
| 18:50.04 | TimRiker | Chestal: the point is that if you store nicks and uids on the server, then you open the door to the newleet bob attack and what you see as "bob.uid" is _really_ leetbob.uid and the admin has no way to know that. |
| 18:50.05 | Chestal | if some admin on my server wanted to change names now, I'd have to manually delete/recreate his login |
| 18:50.19 | JeffM2501 | we get a 1 every couple months now |
| 18:50.41 | Chestal | TimRiker: only if the good bob changed name without me knowing it |
| 18:50.48 | Chestal | so I would use 'bob' and refer to the wrong guy |
| 18:51.08 | trepan | could you setup reserved names on bzbb? (like 3 alternate nicks per user) |
| 18:51.10 | TimRiker | Chestal: exactly. which would often happen. |
| 18:51.13 | Chestal | I _think_ we could postpone this, though |
| 18:51.19 | Chestal | I expect the problems to be rare |
| 18:51.55 | Chestal | TimRiker: often? how? Right now I only set permissions for a player, when he is registered on ther server at the same moment |
| 18:52.00 | Chestal | so I can talk to him, so I know its him |
| 18:52.16 | JeffM2501 | trepan: not with out big changes to bzbb, the interface and database don't have anything for that |
| 18:52.37 | TimRiker | Chestal: or rather you presume it's him. it could be leetbob acting as him |
| 18:52.49 | Chestal | TimRiker: no, it cannot, because he is verified |
| 18:52.52 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker: with todays user you kinda have to asume they know nothing :) |
| 18:52.57 | Chestal | TimRiker: with the odl system |
| 18:53.02 | TimRiker | all the while you see that nice + by his name making you think it's him. |
| 18:53.29 | Chestal | with the new system with the name changes on bzbb, it could be someone else right now, yes |
| 18:53.42 | TimRiker | Chestal: ah, true... I meant on servers where bob had not been. |
| 18:53.43 | Chestal | it's still a somewhat theoretical case |
| 18:53.52 | t-s | Is it allowed to double-register to keep my old callsign to be able to (hopefully) use it in future? |
| 18:54.10 | TimRiker | t-s: emails need to be unique per account. |
| 18:54.26 | Chestal | noone excedpt me has full access on my server |
| 18:54.29 | Chestal | they can banand kick and stuff |
| 18:54.32 | t-s | TimRiker: I have multiple adresses |
| 18:54.44 | Chestal | and if some of those misbehaves, I will look into it and revoke his permissions |
| 18:54.56 | TimRiker | t-s: then you can have mutiple forum accounts (at least currently) |
| 18:54.59 | Chestal | be it because he ist just anidiot, or be it because someone stole his identity |
| 18:55.14 | TimRiker | Chestal: agreed |
| 18:55.24 | Chestal | I would never give other people the pwoer to set user perms |
| 18:55.51 | TimRiker | Chestal: a sane approach. |
| 18:56.39 | TimRiker | so I think I've beat this to death... back to the "what if my.b.o is down?" ok? |
| 18:57.11 | TimRiker | I realise that they way things are (or rather were yesterday) is not ideal. |
| 18:57.35 | TimRiker | I expected that admins would remove almost all the local password entries. |
| 18:57.43 | TimRiker | perhaps leaving a few admins. |
| 18:58.07 | TimRiker | there was nothing preventing folks from registering locally as a global account. |
| 18:58.24 | Chestal | yes |
| 18:58.35 | TimRiker | ie: login as "Tim Riker" then /register (assuming I had not) |
| 18:59.43 | TimRiker | then later /identify as me. you then get the + by your name, but note that you would _not_ get any permissions other than those in the VERIFIED group as you would not be a member of any global groups, only local ones, which should not exist. |
| 18:59.47 | Chestal | I would expect you to only use /register when you don't want the global login |
| 19:00.05 | Chestal | yes, so far, so true |
| 19:00.06 | JeffM2501 | maybe there should be a way to turn all that off |
| 19:00.13 | TimRiker | and if they were impersonating a global admin, they would have a + instead of a @ and hence be noticable. |
| 19:00.14 | JeffM2501 | if your doing global only |
| 19:00.22 | JeffM2501 | or vice versa |
| 19:00.43 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: if you have not passdb then you are global only. |
| 19:00.48 | Chestal | TimRiker: well, it's not only about admins IMHO |
| 19:01.02 | JeffM2501 | if you do not have a passdb, then should not also /reg be disabled? |
| 19:01.07 | Chestal | it should |
| 19:01.09 | JeffM2501 | since it would have nothing to save the database too |
| 19:01.14 | Chestal | as well as /setpass |
| 19:01.20 | JeffM2501 | even /id |
| 19:01.22 | JeffM2501 | all those |
| 19:01.27 | Chestal | yep |
| 19:01.32 | JeffM2501 | that would be a small mod if the patch I made |
| 19:01.34 | TimRiker | Chestal: agreed. no no @/+ to help you, but still leet would not be a member of the global groups that "bob" was a member of. |
| 19:01.38 | *** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com) |
| 19:01.52 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: should, and is. |
| 19:02.02 | JeffM2501 | ahh you did it, good |
| 19:02.18 | mmu_man | ~tld mu |
| 19:02.28 | mmu_man | .tld mu |
| 19:02.29 | mmu_man | ? |
| 19:02.52 | TimRiker | /showgroups etc is still enabled. just /register /setpass /identify ... might be more. |
| 19:03.15 | Chestal | eh, we have that? When? during the last few hours? |
| 19:03.31 | TimRiker | last day or so, yes. |
| 19:03.34 | Chestal | hmm |
| 19:03.45 | Chestal | I co about 10 hours ago and build |
| 19:03.52 | Chestal | my server does not seem to have it |
| 19:04.56 | TimRiker | Chestal: you have a passwd? |
| 19:05.43 | Chestal | started server without -passdb and was able to use /register |
| 19:07.00 | TimRiker | hmm. ugh... didn't commit it... |
| 19:07.09 | Chestal | that would explain it :-) |
| 19:07.14 | TimRiker | works on my server! =( |
| 19:07.50 | TimRiker | commiting. |
| 19:07.59 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: I apologize if I offended you with last night's commit (reading backlog) |
| 19:08.05 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/commands.cxx: disable some /commands if no passdb |
| 19:08.45 | DTRemenak | Most of the code was for detecting the conflict condition, only about 4 lines decide what to do. It's easily changed if you want other behaviour. |
| 19:09.07 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@static-68-162-83-178.phil.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:09.13 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: not offended.... well ok, perhaps a bit. =/ just that yesterday I'm getting picked on for not discussing things, and today I see a change with no previous discussion. |
| 19:10.42 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: I wouldn't call that "no previous discussion"...learner and chestal were the only devs around, I asked them, and jpa-. |
| 19:10.54 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: I welcome, even encourge, discussion on that point. I realise that it is (and wasn't) perfect, but I'd like to see it discussed. (where my definition of discussed does not include cvs commits. apparently I'm abnormal in this respect) |
| 19:11.36 | Chestal | I added the potential problem of changing bzbb names to TODO |
| 19:11.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/TODO: maybe better use bzdb IDs instead of names? |
| 19:11.51 | Chestal | not saying that we must move immediately |
| 19:12.18 | Chestal | back to global/local 'clashes' |
| 19:12.43 | Chestal | we still haven't agreed on a good solution so far |
| 19:13.59 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: don't mean to offent here... this is a real question: I thought I heard you telling me yesterday that in you opinion I should be talking to more people before implementing things dealing with the central login. But yet, you felt that you talking to learner, chestal and jpa- was sufficient for this change, yes? I'm just having issure resolving those two. I'm not trying to discourage anyone here, but can you see where I'm coming from |
| 19:14.44 | SportChick | Nidhoggr: you around? |
| 19:15.02 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.198.151.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 19:15.06 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: I am very pleased to see you involved. you've done some great work, and I expect you to continue to do great work. |
| 19:15.30 | TimRiker | I expect there do be differences of opinion on things from time to time. that's fine. |
| 19:16.28 | TimRiker | I expect folks will dislike changes I make from time to time too. But it seems you have different expectations on me as far as what I should be discussing first, that what you have on yourself. |
| 19:16.43 | Chestal | TimRiker: this problem was the main open issue, AN idea how to address it came up, we discussed a bit on the channel, noone was 100% happy with it, but we saw no better solution and we agreed that it was better than what we had. DTR volunteered to actually implement that idea then |
| 19:16.56 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: yeah, I see your point. My biggest issue with your behaviour (erg, that sounded bad, don't mean to offend) was that you chose to only talk to devs, rather than including the userbase. This was a change that would have a big impact on server admins, so I talked to all the server admins that were around. If you were around, I would have talked to you first...don't get me wrong, I... |
| 19:16.57 | DTRemenak | ...don't expect you to be around 24/7. |
| 19:17.22 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: and you folks _did_ discuss this change with users? |
| 19:17.35 | JeffM2501 | well thre had been talks about this a long while ago when aliasing first came up, but it was give a 'patches welcome' message |
| 19:18.00 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker: admins have been questioning global login since day 1 |
| 19:18.06 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: also, I didn't consider this a major design change. There were two options that didn't require a redesign, but both of them required the conflict detection stuff, which made up the majority of the patch. |
| 19:18.17 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: yeah, jpa- and Chestal are both server admins. |
| 19:18.22 | Chestal | almost noone except us few here really know much about the global login stuff |
| 19:18.49 | TimRiker | Chestal: agreed. |
| 19:18.58 | JeffM2501 | Nid has expresed concern and opinions as well |
| 19:19.30 | TimRiker | I have no beef with anyone about this. I know in IRC is sounds like I do. I'm sorry for that. |
| 19:19.43 | Chestal | it must also be documneted (bzfs manpage), but we should fix how it is supposed to work first I guess :-) |
| 19:19.49 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: likewise from here. Not trying to pick a fight. |
| 19:19.54 | TimRiker | agreed |
| 19:20.00 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p172.vtx.ch) |
| 19:20.01 | jpa- | oh, people talking about me :) |
| 19:20.24 | JeffM2501 | I think everyone just wants to talk about it and ideas don't flow so hot over text somtimes :) |
| 19:20.38 | TimRiker | Just hoping to be cut a little more slack next time I make a change. |
| 19:20.41 | Chestal | the additional valid point Jeff brought up (changing names, IDs) can be ignored with some breath holding for now IMHO |
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| 19:20.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:20.52 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: agreed. |
| 19:21.09 | Chestal | I woudl expect most admins to semi-trust the new system, we just need some experience with it |
| 19:21.22 | TimRiker | Chestal: agreed |
| 19:21.27 | JeffM2501 | there was a big todo on bzbb about passwords and groups |
| 19:21.33 | JeffM2501 | with a number of admins |
| 19:21.37 | JeffM2501 | they didn't get it |
| 19:21.50 | JeffM2501 | a statement from the riker would have put them at ease |
| 19:21.53 | Chestal | so I think it's important that an admin must be able to define some local things which can never be overriden by global stuff,be it user logins or groups |
| 19:22.16 | Chestal | groups are fine now with the local., maybe not pretty, but ok |
| 19:22.18 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: I'm happy to post on the boards if folks think it will help. |
| 19:22.42 | *** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 19:22.46 | JeffM2501 | many people put trust in your name |
| 19:22.47 | TimRiker | I've put up a bit of info on the wiki, and I've been updating it a bit. |
| 19:22.50 | JeffM2501 | your name is on all the pages |
| 19:23.03 | JeffM2501 | words from you will be listened to |
| 19:23.20 | JeffM2501 | sadly the average user hits the boards, not the wiki it seems |
| 19:23.31 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: nod. |
| 19:23.33 | JeffM2501 | better topic layout for them I think |
| 19:23.42 | Chestal | TimRiker: say, we had a local only flag for users and also display @/+ differently for global/local auth, would that be good? |
| 19:24.08 | TimRiker | Chestal: let's discuss... |
| 19:24.18 | TimRiker | so there is a local passwd, yes? |
| 19:24.25 | Chestal | so, noone could steal a local id and you wouldn't have to trust a local login to be the person you know |
| 19:24.54 | Chestal | yes, without local passwd, no local logins |
| 19:24.55 | Chestal | with local passwd, two problems: |
| 19:24.59 | TimRiker | so what should happen if a non-verified user does a /register? and what about a global-verified user? |
| 19:25.29 | Chestal | non-verified user: /register -> user account created on server, flag set to 'local only' |
| 19:25.40 | Chestal | (assuming the user was unknown so far) |
| 19:26.01 | Chestal | should display differently in scoreboard |
| 19:26.14 | TimRiker | well, if they were global only then they would be "unknown so far", yes? |
| 19:26.43 | Chestal | unknwon so far, then globlas login: account gets created, 'local user' flag _not_ set |
| 19:26.50 | Chestal | no local password either |
| 19:26.56 | Chestal | player can use /setpass to set one, though |
| 19:27.13 | Chestal | so he can auth in case of list server failure |
| 19:28.07 | Chestal | I would not expect the regular user to do that, though |
| 19:28.10 | TimRiker | Chestal: so all global users that had authed would exist in the local passdb? |
| 19:28.23 | TimRiker | how about this... |
| 19:28.39 | Chestal | passdb entry only necessary when they did /setpass |
| 19:29.02 | TimRiker | we add a flag to not use central login. if we are not using it, then register works. else only /setpass works. |
| 19:29.37 | TimRiker | users do not exist locally until they do a /setpass |
| 19:29.49 | Chestal | they exist in user file |
| 19:31.13 | SportChick | a little off-subject, but a question: is it possible to make one or a couple of the quick keys (for sending pre-prepared messages) work for PMs - so you select the person you want to PM and then send the message and it goes to only them? |
| 19:31.47 | sgk284 | not to interrupt, but what advantage does it give to allow the duplication of users both globally and locally, i mean what is the reason behind having to let two people with the same callsign connect? the system currently doesn't allow that if i'm regsitered... i dunno, it jsut seems wierd i guess |
| 19:32.06 | Chestal | sgk284: we don't want two people with same callsign to connect at all |
| 19:32.07 | DTRemenak | SportChick: not with the current setup. That can probably be changed in the future if that's a desired feature. |
| 19:32.40 | Chestal | sgk284: a name ona given server is always one person |
| 19:32.51 | Chestal | sgk284: that must be ensured |
| 19:32.52 | SportChick | but I will hush for now |
| 19:33.12 | sgk284 | Chestal: then whats wrong with: if(user.hasLocalAccount()){ auth against localdb} else { auth against global} ? |
| 19:33.25 | Chestal | TimRiker: the only problem I see with your scheme is that if I want to use global logins, all my "admins" would have to use that |
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| 19:33.58 | sgk284 | nidhoggr started getting his admin to register |
| 19:34.00 | TimRiker | sgk284: user will have to clear thier password when connecting to server that they are locally registered on cause they will be getting and presenting a token. |
| 19:34.11 | Chestal | sgk284: Tim wants to use global login but in case of list server failure to use /identify |
| 19:34.20 | TimRiker | Chestal: and that's a problem? |
| 19:34.58 | sgk284 | oh okay... so global is the preferred method of auth... i was under the impression that global and local had same priority |
| 19:35.00 | TimRiker | Chestal: do you see some of you admins not using the central login? (I mean in the long term, not during transition) |
| 19:35.38 | TimRiker | sgk284: that's what we are discussing. ;-) |
| 19:35.45 | sgk284 | :) |
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| 19:36.53 | TimRiker | Chestal: I want to strongly encourage central logins. It allows me to contact players on phpbb and know that they are the same players on other servers. |
| 19:37.30 | sgk284 | okay, just to toss an idea out there: why not add an option beneath "password" on the client screen, the option would be "local" or "global", if global is checked it grabs a token, otherwise it sends "/identify passwd" to the server |
| 19:37.43 | Chestal | TimRiker: maybe not in the long term, but it would make the transition harder |
| 19:37.43 | TimRiker | I believe it will tend to create more admins on live servers, as owners will be encourged to grant admin privs to existing trusted global groups by default. |
| 19:38.27 | TimRiker | Chestal: re: transition... completely in agreement. it makes it more painful, but I think the end product should not suffer because of the short term pain. |
| 19:38.57 | Chestal | I would have to starth with a fresh userbase in 2.0 |
| 19:39.34 | TimRiker | Chestal: nod. but that is what in fact you have with phpbb anyway, no? |
| 19:40.29 | DTRemenak | codewise, without a major redesign there are basically two options that don't involve accidental sharing of permissions. One is the way it is now, global logins for local users are rejected to preserve the local login, and the other is to have global logins erase the local login and permissions (which I actually prefer). Anything more than those would need some major changes to the way... |
| 19:40.30 | DTRemenak | ...users are handled. Are we prepared to make those major changes? |
| 19:40.49 | TimRiker | ok... more thoughts... perhaps we have a "LOCAL.GLOBAL" group. (/me gags at the name). If the flag is present, then users can /identify or global login to the account. and if it's not there, then they can't. |
| 19:41.05 | DTRemenak | that's an interesting thought |
| 19:41.18 | TimRiker | admins can slowly add that group to each user as they verify that they callsign is the same. |
| 19:42.06 | TimRiker | and any global registered user that does a /setpass automatically gets that group. (the account would not have allready existed or they would not have been able to be verified) |
| 19:42.25 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 19:43.09 | TimRiker | loing term annoyance is that all users that /register first, and then sign up on phpbb need to involve an admin to add the flag to thier account. =( |
| 19:43.18 | TimRiker | s/loing/long/ |
| 19:43.43 | Chestal | well, that group is just a replacement for the aforementioned 'flag' |
| 19:43.47 | Chestal | or? |
| 19:44.04 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: the way it is now requires admin intervention for each user to be able to use their global account effectively anyway |
| 19:44.17 | DTRemenak | (if they have a local account already) |
| 19:44.35 | TimRiker | yes. you say flag, I say group... =) just talking about what happens when it is/isn't there |
| 19:44.55 | DTRemenak | group is much easier to implement :) |
| 19:45.15 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: yes, but now the intervention is to destroy the local account. which means that if my.b.o is down or unreachable, they can't get verified. |
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| 19:45.38 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: yeah. the group thing is definately a more flexible solution. |
| 19:46.20 | DTRemenak | jpa-: thoughts? |
| 19:46.36 | Chestal | so membership in this group is needed to allow token logins? |
| 19:46.54 | TimRiker | Chestal: if a local account exists, then yes. |
| 19:46.59 | Chestal | fresh accounts created via token logins would get this group automatically |
| 19:47.04 | jpa- | DTRemenak: about what? |
| 19:47.11 | TimRiker | Chestal: nod |
| 19:47.25 | TimRiker | Chestal: where created == /setpass |
| 19:47.29 | sgk284 | DTRemenak, me and sporty admin secretplace, granted sporty is higher up on the chain then I am |
| 19:47.29 | Chestal | well, we could always use it or only when people have local password, same in the end |
| 19:47.33 | jpa- | i'm developing schmitt trigger for ir-receiver, i haven't followed the conversation |
| 19:47.43 | Chestal | I think I prefer it to be set always |
| 19:47.53 | DTRemenak | jpa-: if a local user already exists, and a remote user joins, the admin would have the chance to make sure they're the same person and add them to a group which would activate both local and global accounts. |
| 19:47.55 | TimRiker | Until an account has any local info, I'd prefer it did not exist locally. |
| 19:48.09 | Chestal | this allows for easy check whether it is global account or not |
| 19:48.19 | TimRiker | local info could be a password or membership in local groups, or addtional local rights. |
| 19:48.38 | Chestal | right now user entry is made when first token login happens |
| 19:48.54 | Chestal | I think this is good |
| 19:49.35 | DTRemenak | imho, having the user in userdb on first global login is good. the admin can then add the user to groups even if he's not present. |
| 19:49.45 | TimRiker | Chestal: if they have not extra local permissions, it means a larger file to have to read through, and more data in memory on the server, that really does not add any value, no? |
| 19:49.47 | Chestal | or even edit the file manually |
| 19:49.51 | jpa- | DTRemenak: umm.. does not sound intuitive |
| 19:49.58 | Chestal | TimRiker: they add two values right now: |
| 19:50.03 | jpa- | good, but not easy |
| 19:50.06 | Chestal | 1) - mark in scoreboard |
| 19:50.16 | Chestal | 2) /setgroup etc. for user who is not present |
| 19:50.29 | DTRemenak | jpa-: have any suggestions for making it easier? or a different method? |
| 19:51.18 | Thumper_ | I use 3 accounts, I register one account for playing with, the other two are bzadmin accounts (one for me and one for a script I use to issue privileged commands to the server) |
| 19:51.18 | Thumper_ | I don't intend to register the other two accounts (they have '_' in the name and not sure that is even valid bzbb account) so I want these accounts to be local only. Is that going to be an issue? |
| 19:51.53 | TimRiker | Chestal: the mark in the scoreboard can happen without an entry in the local userdb. |
| 19:52.20 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: it shouldn't be. if someone registers a global account with those names, they'll be unable to get any permissions on your server unless you grant them this group permission. |
| 19:52.25 | TimRiker | Chestal: the /setgroup on non-present user is a valid point. I'm hoping more and more of those would be done on phpbb instead. |
| 19:52.29 | Chestal | TimRiker: yes, it could, bzfs would need to contact list server and ask if user exists |
| 19:52.31 | jpa- | DTRemenak: well, no, since i still think local over remote is a good solution :) |
| 19:52.59 | Chestal | btw. has anyone ever used the individual permissions? |
| 19:53.08 | Chestal | those two blank lines for eachuser in user file... |
| 19:53.13 | DTRemenak | jpa-: this is still local over remote, but you can give the remote account access by adding the user to this special group. |
| 19:53.31 | TimRiker | Chestal: I've used user permissions. but could live without them. |
| 19:53.34 | Thumper_ | not me - I have local groups with perms and assign users to these local groups |
| 19:53.43 | DTRemenak | Chestal: I didn't even know they existed :) |
| 19:54.01 | jpa- | DTRemenak: umm.. sounds ok, if enough information is given when global joins |
| 19:54.28 | DTRemenak | jpa-: should be. it's a bit more flexible, but probably more work for the admins |
| 19:55.01 | DTRemenak | should be = should be enough information, not should be ok |
| 19:55.09 | Chestal | I'd say go with a special 'global' (or whatever) group |
| 19:55.17 | Chestal | if defined, allow token auth |
| 19:55.17 | TimRiker | jpa-: so with the local over remote.... |
| 19:55.20 | Chestal | if not, not |
| 19:55.26 | Thumper_ | DTR: more work is okay as long as a) it's a one time setup thing and b) it's not real easy to blow it and make the server insecure (ie if it is too complicated) |
| 19:55.34 | TimRiker | jpa-: as a user I have foo:password set in my client. |
| 19:55.39 | Chestal | group set for new account created via tokenauth, not for /register accounts |
| 19:55.55 | TimRiker | I connect to your server with a central token, but there is a local account. what happens? |
| 19:56.02 | Chestal | if admins want to use old user files, they'd have to adjust for some admins so they can use global logins |
| 19:56.13 | Thumper_ | DTR: converting the entire user accounting thing to a new way is fine with me (for 2.0 startup) |
| 19:56.14 | DTRemenak | Thumper_: that's about what this amounts to. more work once. shouldn't be a security hazard; you just have to make sure that the local and remote users are actually the same person. |
| 19:56.16 | Chestal | many people will have been using different callsigns with /register and in bzbb anyway |
| 19:56.22 | jpa- | TimRiker: you can not auth with token, but you can /identify if you know the passwd |
| 19:56.44 | TimRiker | jpa-: so what happens when I try to auth with a token? |
| 19:56.53 | jpa- | it just discards it |
| 19:57.00 | Chestal | it gives a message to the user |
| 19:57.02 | Chestal | as it does now |
| 19:57.03 | TimRiker | I connect but can't spawn? |
| 19:57.04 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: he's advocating exactly what's in current code |
| 19:57.13 | jpa- | hmm |
| 19:57.14 | Chestal | will mark user with '-' |
| 19:57.20 | Chestal | spawning depends on server setting |
| 19:57.24 | jpa- | oh, if there is requireidentify.. |
| 19:57.27 | DTRemenak | global user connects, has his global token thrown out, as if he had gotten no token to begin with |
| 19:57.36 | DTRemenak | until you identify, yes |
| 19:57.48 | Chestal | if user gets the new proposed group, token auth would be allowed |
| 19:57.48 | jpa- | you could identify |
| 19:57.54 | jpa- | or you could change nick |
| 19:58.02 | Chestal | this sounds like as simple as we can get it |
| 19:58.12 | TimRiker | so I'm +foo on any other server, but on this server I'm -foo until I /identify ? |
| 19:58.15 | Chestal | we might also want to display authed users without global group differently |
| 19:58.31 | TimRiker | and the only way I can get local server rights it to use this method. |
| 19:58.43 | jpa- | TimRiker: you could add yourself to that special group people were talking about, or to /unregister |
| 19:58.53 | TimRiker | whereby I login centrally, but have my login rejected, and then login again locally. |
| 19:59.21 | *** join/#bzflag odie (~odie@lsne-catv-dhcp-14-47.urbanet.ch) |
| 19:59.24 | TimRiker | jpa-: ah, but if I unregister, then I can't have and additional local rights. |
| 19:59.45 | jpa- | hmm |
| 19:59.45 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: you can, they just have to be added to your account again |
| 20:00.06 | Chestal | the global group thing solves all IMHO |
| 20:00.10 | Chestal | someone implement it :-( |
| 20:00.12 | DTRemenak | the real problem with it is that it's exclusionary. you can't have a local password on a global account |
| 20:00.13 | Chestal | eh, :-) |
| 20:00.21 | Chestal | should be easy, too |
| 20:00.26 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: huh? then there would be a local account again, and I'd be denied token login, no? |
| 20:00.28 | DTRemenak | the LOCAL.GLOBAL group solves that problem |
| 20:00.43 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: yeah, you couldn't have both a local and a global account |
| 20:00.56 | DTRemenak | which is why it's broken :) |
| 20:01.17 | TimRiker | k. sounds like we are all in violent agreement re the LOCAL.GLOBAL group and being the least painful way forward, yes? |
| 20:01.20 | Chestal | if (userunknown || user.hasgrup(global")) tokenauth(); |
| 20:01.36 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: heh, yeah, sounds like it |
| 20:01.57 | Chestal | not sure it has to have this name |
| 20:02.05 | Chestal | shouldn't "global" be good enough? |
| 20:02.15 | DTRemenak | Chestal: GLOBAL is a global group |
| 20:02.23 | DTRemenak | LOCAL.GLOBAL is a local group of global users |
| 20:02.25 | Chestal | this is a special group anyway |
| 20:02.50 | Chestal | a user could not get this permission from centra login |
| 20:02.51 | DTRemenak | if we're going to do the LOCAL. thing, may as well be consistent about it. |
| 20:02.58 | Chestal | because centreal login is not done unles she already has it |
| 20:03.14 | TimRiker | Chestal: what if some phpbb admin created a GLOBAL group? |
| 20:03.23 | jpa- | but has he it if he has not identified? |
| 20:03.36 | Chestal | TimRiker: would not be used for peopel without GLOBAL entry in user file |
| 20:03.47 | Chestal | TimRiker: because for those, bzbb would not be asked |
| 20:03.50 | TimRiker | jpa-: ah. true. the check happens before login. |
| 20:03.52 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: central login is rejected when you aren't already a member of the group. |
| 20:04.23 | Chestal | I think it's comparable to VERIFIED group |
| 20:04.30 | Chestal | this is also a special case |
| 20:05.00 | *** join/#bzflag anteater (~45f06abf@rw08.de) |
| 20:05.05 | Chestal | could only allowed global people to do /lagstats :-) |
| 20:05.06 | sgk284 | err guys lets try to keep it simple... not every server admin is a programmer:) |
| 20:05.11 | Chestal | that will tell them to register with bzbb |
| 20:05.12 | DTRemenak | Chestal: I've considered making VERIFIED and DEFAULT LOCAL.'s also, but I think someone would kill me :) |
| 20:05.46 | Chestal | but earnestly, when ther eis a global group, I can also assign permissions to it? |
| 20:05.49 | DTRemenak | the token request URL gets awefully long with all these groups |
| 20:05.57 | DTRemenak | Chestal: yes |
| 20:06.28 | Chestal | this leaves the question, whether verified people who on't have GLOBAL should be displayed differently in scoreboard |
| 20:06.43 | Chestal | so I know he's not necessarily the famous Bob from bzbb |
| 20:06.44 | TimRiker | Chestal: yes. that's the only thing global groups are good for. |
| 20:06.59 | DTRemenak | Chestal: not sure I get your question |
| 20:07.06 | Chestal | TimRiker: Iwas referring to the special GLOBAL group |
| 20:07.16 | Chestal | DTRemenak: which one? :-) |
| 20:07.28 | TimRiker | Chestal: I'd prefer they do. "#bob" or something? |
| 20:07.42 | DTRemenak | Chestal: the LOCAL.GLOBAL group grants permission for locally-registered users to use their global logins |
| 20:07.57 | jpa- | TimRiker: i was just going to say "$bob" |
| 20:08.01 | DTRemenak | not all global users need have it. not all local users need have it. |
| 20:08.02 | Chestal | DTRemenak: I'd say it grants permission for all people to use global logins |
| 20:08.05 | TimRiker | Chestal: It would seem to me that you should be able to grant perms to it, yes. |
| 20:08.12 | Chestal | DTRemenak: it's easier and clearer IMHO |
| 20:08.40 | Chestal | then a simpke /showgroup would tell me, whether this is a bzbb guy or only a local one |
| 20:09.01 | TimRiker | well, members of this group would be those that have a local entry as well as a central entry. yes? |
| 20:09.19 | Chestal | DTRemenak: and it would allow me to grant those nice people who use their bzbb login, if I care |
| 20:09.21 | DTRemenak | Chestal: works for me. Could have global users automatically added to this group whether or not they have local logins. |
| 20:09.33 | Chestal | yes, I think this is best |
| 20:09.36 | TimRiker | so if an account has no password locally, but they are central verified, are they a member? |
| 20:09.42 | Chestal | yes |
| 20:09.45 | DTRemenak | since by the time you get global auth, you've already either been added to this group or there's no local account. |
| 20:09.46 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (~quolsimo@modemcable103.129-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:09.54 | Chestal | everyone who is not a member is a special case |
| 20:10.01 | Chestal | local only |
| 20:10.39 | brlcad | howdy Quol |
| 20:10.44 | Quol | hey there learner |
| 20:10.50 | Quol | you at work |
| 20:10.54 | Chestal | this _should_ be easy to do |
| 20:11.08 | DTRemenak | yeah, shouldn't be but five lines of code |
| 20:11.11 | jpa- | these people are flooding my wlan with irc! |
| 20:11.16 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:11.26 | Chestal | Imust really hunt for food, cu in an hour or so |
| 20:11.30 | brlcad | Quol: no, i"m at home though working on other things right now |
| 20:11.44 | brlcad | booted in to a different OS waiting for the release/compilation drill |
| 20:12.22 | TimRiker | k. well I've got some stuff to do around the house. I'll get to it later today, if nobody else does. Is anyone planning to work on it? |
| 20:12.31 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: want me to? |
| 20:12.36 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: sure. |
| 20:12.42 | DTRemenak | k, I will |
| 20:12.51 | TimRiker | k. DTRemenak has the ball. |
| 20:13.37 | TimRiker | oh, there is another ball (thanx JeffM2501) someone should document this on the wiki, or the forums, or the user mailing list. |
| 20:14.01 | TimRiker | anyone signing up for that? I'll do it later today if nobody else volunteers. |
| 20:14.24 | *** topic/#bzflag by jpa- -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || 1.11.x builds http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Release date is sometime in next 24h. Delayed once again. || NOW SHUT THE HECK UP! |
| 20:15.07 | jpa- | if you can not fit to the 24h boundary, you are complete losers! |
| 20:15.23 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:15.31 | *** join/#bzflag tea|tree (~d9e974f5@rw08.de) |
| 20:15.39 | tea|tree | hola |
| 20:15.54 | TimRiker | thanx all! (specially DTRemenak cause he got stuck doing it. =) |
| 20:16.10 | DTRemenak | TimRiker: it's seriously like five lines of code :) |
| 20:17.19 | *** part/#bzflag Quol (~quolsimo@modemcable103.129-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:17.48 | jpa- | DTRemenak: think if you would fight so much for every five lines :) |
| 20:18.16 | brlcad | shouldn't have to fight so much at all |
| 20:18.16 | DTRemenak | heh. only for the important stuff :) |
| 20:19.28 | jpa- | it would take atleast an hour to read all the backlog you made :) |
| 20:21.04 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:21.21 | *** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.254.203.209.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net) |
| 20:21.38 | odie | Hi everyone |
| 20:21.59 | amathis | hi |
| 20:22.15 | odie | I'm trying to build the latest CVS on MacOSX and running ./autogen.sh fail giving: |
| 20:22.16 | odie | configure.in:58: OBJCDEPMODE was already defined in condition TRUE, which implies condition AMDEP_TRUE |
| 20:22.16 | odie | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.16 | odie | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.16 | odie | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.16 | odie | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.23 | odie | Any idea what that means ? |
| 20:22.34 | tea|tree | banana |
| 20:23.15 | DTRemenak | odie: blame it on brlcad |
| 20:23.54 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p068.vtx.ch) |
| 20:24.14 | odie | DTRemenak: what's brlcad ? |
| 20:24.20 | cods | :) |
| 20:24.27 | DTRemenak | he's here, he's just not answering you |
| 20:24.38 | jpa- | evil dev breaking everything? ,) |
| 20:24.45 | odie | Oh. didn't notice his nick :-) |
| 20:25.09 | DTRemenak | odie: is it an error or a warning? |
| 20:25.22 | DTRemenak | if it's just a warning, ignore it |
| 20:25.26 | odie | DTRemenak: an error it failed to produce the configure |
| 20:25.38 | DTRemenak | that's probably not good |
| 20:26.55 | odie | guess I'll have to look in the cvs log to find out the recent history of this breakage |
| 20:28.05 | brlcad | jpa-: just read the backlog in about 10 minutes |
| 20:28.17 | *** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p068.vtx.ch) |
| 20:28.28 | brlcad | odie: comment out the OBJCDEPMODE lines in configure.in |
| 20:28.45 | DTRemenak | oops, seven lines, not five. that's what I get for being verbose with the error message :) |
| 20:29.05 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:29.21 | jpa- | who is doing windows builds? could we have a 1.11.40 windows build? |
| 20:29.24 | odie | reverting to previous version didn't help. Will comment it out |
| 20:30.03 | blast007_ | DTRemenak: I got VC6 installed on my laptop, and had a few issues compiling the latest anon CVS |
| 20:30.14 | DTRemenak | blast007: what kind? |
| 20:30.31 | blast007 | URLManager.cxx needed to include winsock.h |
| 20:30.32 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: allow global users to log in when local users with the same account name exist, provided they would be in the LOCAL.GLOBAL group if they /identified. |
| 20:30.47 | DTRemenak | blast007: ??? that's weird |
| 20:30.49 | *** part/#bzflag drigz (~drigz@user-3192.l5.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 20:30.50 | *** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@tittchen.saustall.busn.org) |
| 20:30.56 | blast007 | and also the non-SDL build was requiring sdl libs |
| 20:31.50 | DTRemenak | blast007: it does that occasionally, we've fixed it several times :S |
| 20:31.58 | blast007 | k |
| 20:32.27 | blast007 | also was a link warning for bzadmin saying that all references to shell32.dll have been discarded |
| 20:32.36 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's ok |
| 20:32.40 | blast007 | other than that it all worked fine |
| 20:32.44 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 20:32.51 | DTRemenak | now about URLManager |
| 20:32.56 | DTRemenak | what errors did it give? |
| 20:33.30 | blast007 | http://blast.game-host.org/vc6/vc6_1.txt |
| 20:34.04 | DTRemenak | fascinating |
| 20:35.03 | DTRemenak | ok, well, if it needs it it needs it |
| 20:36.41 | DTRemenak | blast007: I'm assuming it works with winsock2.h instead of winsock.h also? |
| 20:37.03 | blast007 | I can check in a bit |
| 20:37.13 | DTRemenak | k |
| 20:37.14 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@static-68-162-83-178.phil.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:38.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: apparently vc6 needs winsock included in order to compile this thing. MeBigFatGuy, hopefully this doesn't break your compile, if it does, yell at me. |
| 20:41.08 | DTRemenak | ... oops ... |
| 20:42.14 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: yeah, and only include winsock on windows |
| 20:42.31 | jpa- | ha :) |
| 20:42.45 | DTRemenak | jpa-: :D |
| 20:44.25 | jpa- | school tomorrow |
| 20:44.31 | jpa- | should i sleep? |
| 20:44.53 | blast007 | probably :) |
| 20:46.02 | jpa- | maybe |
| 20:46.26 | cods | Another "typo" in bzw.5s. This patch correct it: http://tuxee.net/man-bzw-3.txt |
| 20:46.40 | jpa- | get it released in 7 hours so that i can spend day off compiling it :) |
| 20:47.00 | DTRemenak | jpa-: we're workin' on it :) |
| 20:47.14 | jpa- | DTRemenak: i know you are |
| 20:47.18 | cods | what's the best way to submit tiny patch like the one above ? I'm pasting URL here.. I guess it's not the best way for that. |
| 20:48.03 | jpa- | DTRemenak: and i want to be first one killing you with bzflag 2.0 |
| 20:48.04 | jpa- | :) |
| 20:48.25 | Chestal | cods: well, it's the fastest for that tiny patches as long as some dev is around |
| 20:48.28 | DTRemenak | cods: best way is to ask for dev access and not have to submit patches at all. I'm sure Tim would love to have someone who's committed to maintaining the docs. |
| 20:48.41 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/man/bzw.5s: sinusoid takes three float parms (thanks, cods) |
| 20:48.57 | DTRemenak | but yeah, aside from that, if we're here, a url works fine |
| 20:48.58 | cods | DTRemenak: hhh.. I prefer not to have access.. I would be afraid to break something. |
| 20:48.58 | Chestal | cods: just promise that you will getthe protocol doc up to date :-) |
| 20:49.33 | DTRemenak | cods: beautiful thing about cvs is that broken changes can be reverted :) |
| 20:49.41 | cods | for protocol, it's a bit more complicated.. And editing XML is not fun at all. |
| 20:49.45 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 20:50.18 | cods | and more importantly, for protocol, I'm unable to write english correctly, so explaining thing would not be very possible. |
| 20:50.36 | cods | however, drawing rectangle with bytes values inside it should be easy for me :) |
| 20:50.43 | DTRemenak | :) |
| 20:51.36 | brlcad | cods: sounds like your english is just fine |
| 20:52.14 | DTRemenak | cods: is english your first or second language? |
| 20:52.23 | jpa- | brlcad: english usually seems fine on chats, because the syntax is not so strict here :) |
| 20:52.26 | cods | second.. I'm french. |
| 20:52.32 | DTRemenak | from listening to you, I'd guess first, but by what you said, I'd guess second :) |
| 20:53.07 | DTRemenak | cods: you have better english than a lot of native speakers :) |
| 20:53.41 | cods | really ? oh.. I hope not :) |
| 20:54.03 | jpa- | native in america.. i can believe that |
| 20:54.06 | DTRemenak | of course, a lot of native speakers are not very good at english :) |
| 20:54.43 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@216.228.186.118) |
| 20:55.05 | DTRemenak | cods: now that you've mentioned it, I notice a few little things. Like a missing article here or there, use of the infinitive instead of the gerand...nothing that's worse than a lot of native speakers though, just different |
| 20:55.25 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.198.151.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 20:56.18 | jpa- | ~dict grunt |
| 20:57.45 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (man/bzw.5s src/game/BzMaterial.cxx): default to white instead of light grey |
| 20:58.23 | jpa- | night ppl |
| 20:59.50 | jpa- | (i won't go until someone wishes me good night) |
| 21:00.05 | blast007 | lol, g'night :) |
| 21:00.12 | DTRemenak | jk: g'night jpa- |
| 21:00.30 | *** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com) |
| 21:00.37 | DTRemenak | yay, the LOCAL.GLOBAL group seems to work |
| 21:00.47 | brlcad | ship it! |
| 21:00.55 | DTRemenak | couse the verbose message overflows the buffer, but... |
| 21:01.13 | cods | About tiny patch.. This one bump protocol check from 0023 to 0025 in misc/bzfquery.{py,pl}: http://tuxee.net/bzfquery-0025.txt |
| 21:01.21 | DTRemenak | that's why we use snprintf instead of sprintf :) |
| 21:02.03 | DTRemenak | heh, now you've got me analyzing your grammar :) |
| 21:02.25 | blast007 | DTRemenak: Just tried compiling URLManager.cxx with winsock2.h instead of winsock.h, and it doesn't work |
| 21:02.32 | DTRemenak | blast007: darn. |
| 21:02.57 | blast007 | gives the same errors as before I included winsock.h at all |
| 21:03.14 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 21:03.39 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: apparently it needs to be winsock.h not winsock2.h even |
| 21:03.39 | blast007 | does only VC6 need winsock.h included? or does this affect VC7.1 too? |
| 21:03.55 | DTRemenak | doesn't appear to affect VC7.1 either way |
| 21:04.01 | blast007 | k |
| 21:04.13 | blast007 | didn't want it to break VC7.1 in the process ;) |
| 21:04.22 | DTRemenak | I just seemed to remember something about it being a bad idea to include winsock and winsock2 in the same program |
| 21:04.57 | DTRemenak | heh, if it threatens to break vc7.1 I'll use an #if defined(_MSC_VER) && (_MSC_VER <= 1200) around it :) |
| 21:05.41 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/misc/ (bzfquery.pl bzfquery.py): s/0023/0024/ |
| 21:06.21 | cods | 0024 ? |
| 21:06.24 | cods | not 0025 ? |
| 21:06.39 | brlcad | commit message typo |
| 21:06.44 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:06.49 | cods | oh ok |
| 21:07.13 | Chestal | commit messages should be CVS files of their own, so you could repair them :-) |
| 21:07.55 | DTRemenak | Chestal: that would lead to truly rampant confusion :) |
| 21:07.56 | brlcad | could usually repair the problem by editing the ,v file |
| 21:09.12 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: break long "this-account-exists-locally-so-ask-an-admin-to-do-something-about-it" message into three parts so that it all gets there |
| 21:09.23 | DTRemenak | brlcad: ready to ship? ;) |
| 21:13.10 | cods | how? |
| 21:13.31 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/misc/ (bzfquery.pl bzfquery.py): s/0023/0025/ (redo commit, this one has correct commit comment) |
| 21:13.39 | Birdie | i know 4 ways |
| 21:14.02 | Chestal | shoot immediately after respawn, before tank has grown fully (ok, you'd have to be lucky to look in right direction) :-) |
| 21:14.11 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:14.24 | Birdie | lol |
| 21:15.05 | brlcad | is there anything else left for release? |
| 21:15.34 | brlcad | is LOCAL.GLOBAL and LOCAL.* documented? |
| 21:15.45 | DTRemenak | brlcad: no, Tim said he'd do that |
| 21:15.57 | brlcad | i mean in manpage |
| 21:15.57 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I'm sure he'd be happy if you did though |
| 21:16.09 | DTRemenak | no, they're not doc'ed anywhere |
| 21:16.38 | brlcad | hrm, i'm not sure I know what all was decided upon |
| 21:17.13 | DTRemenak | brlcad: LOCAL.* are never requested from the list server |
| 21:17.32 | brlcad | so bzfs starts up |
| 21:17.34 | Chestal | manpage knows nothing about global login whatsoever I fear |
| 21:17.40 | DTRemenak | LOCAL.GLOBAL is a special group to which admins may add people who want to have both local and global accounts |
| 21:17.46 | DTRemenak | and Chestal's probably right |
| 21:17.56 | *** join/#bzflag bz7923 (~445fb805@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:18.30 | DTRemenak | ~brlcad++ |
| 21:18.53 | brlcad | someone else should take on the bzfs.6s :) |
| 21:19.19 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5255 |
| 21:19.44 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery bzf.rangfar.com:5154 |
| 21:20.24 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5154 |
| 21:20.52 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery bzf.rangfar.com:5154 |
| 21:21.51 | cods | wrong hostname.. |
| 21:22.06 | bz7923 | is all that visible? |
| 21:22.24 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery 70.84.70.100:5154 |
| 21:23.08 | cods | firewall ? |
| 21:23.39 | bz7923 | out of curiosity, are the queries all publicly viewable? |
| 21:23.43 | blast007 | yup |
| 21:23.46 | bz7923 | ok |
| 21:23.57 | bz7923 | hmm that last one never returned to me :P |
| 21:24.04 | bz7923 | ~bzfquery 70.84.70.100:5154 |
| 21:24.13 | blast007 | ibot is probably waiting for it to time out |
| 21:24.17 | bz7923 | ok |
| 21:24.29 | bz7923 | I'm sort of stuck; I don't quite know how to determine my server IP |
| 21:24.51 | cods | 5154/udp open|filtered unknown |
| 21:24.59 | cods | I'm sure it's related to a firewall issue |
| 21:25.04 | bz7923 | ok |
| 21:25.19 | bz7923 | 5154/udp open|filtered uknown |
| 21:25.26 | bz7923 | is that a line of code for Linux? |
| 21:25.28 | blast007 | http://www.viewmyip.com |
| 21:25.34 | bz7923 | it's not on my local PC, but on a remote computer |
| 21:25.41 | cods | it's from "nmap -P0 -sU -p 5154 70.84.70.100" |
| 21:26.51 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@electricelf.user) |
| 21:27.05 | bz7923 | ok I guess let me try to figure out how to check open ports |
| 21:27.23 | bz7923 | in Redhat 8 |
| 21:30.03 | cods | you can use nmap for that.. (nmap 70.84.70.100) if you're sure it's ok to run such a test. |
| 21:32.04 | bz7923 | okay? |
| 21:32.13 | bz7923 | there are risks involved? |
| 21:33.06 | cods | It's just that the owner of the remote machine may not be happy.. Otherwise, it's fine and good for testing. |
| 21:33.21 | bz7923 | ok |
| 21:33.37 | *** part/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 21:33.54 | bz7923 | do you suppose one could just use port 80 (same as e-mail)? |
| 21:34.10 | bz7923 | or is that too risky/ doesn;t work? |
| 21:34.41 | cods | 80 is http |
| 21:34.44 | cods | 25 is smtp (email) |
| 21:34.49 | blast007 | heard you should use ports above 1024 |
| 21:35.03 | bz7923 | opps yeah, 25 is smtp |
| 21:35.13 | cods | only root can bind to port below 1024 |
| 21:35.18 | bz7923 | gotcha |
| 21:35.56 | bz7923 | so I guess I should contact the remote administrator and ask him to check for 5154 availability through the firewall... |
| 21:36.03 | cods | indeed |
| 21:36.17 | bz7923 | the server application runs, but is invisible to the outside world |
| 21:37.22 | bz7923 | thanks for the help |
| 21:42.17 | *** part/#bzflag odie (~odie@lsne-catv-dhcp-14-47.urbanet.ch) |
| 21:47.38 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/man/bzflag.6s: include a section about joining a game as well. Give a simple summary of the global registration system use from a player's perspective here. |
| 21:48.27 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: assign LOCAL.GLOBAL group to user which was registered via global login |
| 21:48.35 | Chestal | someone else please try to test the new local/global handling |
| 21:51.12 | brlcad | what is LOCAL.GLOBAL supposed to mean? |
| 21:52.53 | brlcad | I log in as Chestal and am listed as LOCAL.GLOBAL group.. what does that do or not do for me? |
| 21:56.18 | *** join/#bzflag mothe (~45f06abf@rw08.de) |
| 21:56.45 | *** join/#bzflag mother (~45f06abf@rw08.de) |
| 22:02.34 | sgk284 | i've been away from the computer for a bit, and progress? :) |
| 22:02.41 | sgk284 | s/and/any* |
| 22:03.53 | *** part/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p068.vtx.ch) |
| 22:03.56 | DTRemenak | Chestal: what wasn't working before? |
| 22:05.33 | sgk284 | ~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us |
| 22:05.52 | DTRemenak | Chestal: it should have been doing that on ListServerConnection.cxx:204 |
| 22:09.19 | DTRemenak | Chestal: just tested, your patch does not change behavior at all, just calls addGroup("LOCAL.GLOBAL") twice. |
| 22:15.18 | Chestal | DTRemenak: ehm, let me test again |
| 22:16.22 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.198.151.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 22:19.10 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 22:19.21 | Chestal | DTRemenak: without the change, local.group is added to the global groups, not the local groups. Actualyl have to remove that line from ListserverCOnnection, too |
| 22:19.42 | Chestal | although I must say, the way that the groups/accessinfos are handled codewise is more than a bit confusing |
| 22:20.13 | DTRemenak | Chestal: ah, they're kept separately? |
| 22:20.26 | Chestal | yes, try /showgroup |
| 22:20.49 | Chestal | playerdata->accessinfo seems to be seperate from the other accessinfo |
| 22:21.02 | Chestal | I don't really understand it |
| 22:21.30 | DTRemenak | wow. that's strange :) |
| 22:22.16 | Chestal | maybe the one in playerdata are current permissions, whereas the other refers to the static data |
| 22:22.28 | *** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.240.105.114.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net) |
| 22:22.31 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~root@dialup-4.158.198.151.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 22:22.38 | Chestal | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:22.54 | Chestal | because it's not global/local, but more like current/persistent |
| 22:23.02 | DTRemenak | well, probably one is written to file and the other isn't |
| 22:23.15 | DTRemenak | we want LOCAL.GLOBAL to be written to file, so your change is correct |
| 22:23.38 | *** join/#bzflag PointBlank (PointBlank@dialup-4.240.105.114.Dial1.Phoenix1.Level3.net) |
| 22:25.31 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ (Permissions.cxx ListServerConnection.cxx): remove original LOCAL.GLOBAL addGroup from ListServerConnection in favor of the correct one in Permissions. Move the comment associated with it to Permissions. |
| 22:27.04 | DTRemenak | Chestal: thanks :) |
| 22:29.38 | DTRemenak | the diff is that one gets saved in userDatabase and the other doesn't. kind of a strange system, as if there was a working copy and a hard copy. |
| 22:32.02 | DTRemenak | I suppose that's what's meant by "Global Temp Register", and it's also the method for making sure changes on bzbb get synced to the servers. |
| 22:35.07 | Chestal | whatever, if it works, I won't touch it now |
| 22:36.17 | DTRemenak | heh, I'm just trying to figure out how it all works :) |
| 22:36.35 | brlcad | so what does it now mean if I put: LOCAL.ADMIN: BANLIST into my groupdb file? |
| 22:36.58 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it means that members of the LOCAL.ADMIN group get the BANLIST permission |
| 22:38.59 | Chestal | normally, you wouldn't have locl.admin in your groups file |
| 22:39.09 | brlcad | right, just an example |
| 22:39.17 | brlcad | probably not a good one, given ADMIN |
| 22:39.20 | Chestal | as you wouldn#t have put admin there before |
| 22:39.32 | brlcad | say for example LOCAL.OPERATOR |
| 22:39.40 | brlcad | and there happens to be a global OPERATOR gropu |
| 22:39.49 | Chestal | they are unrelated then |
| 22:39.52 | brlcad | i log on and /identify |
| 22:40.01 | DTRemenak | brlcad: all that the LOCAL. means is that if there's a group of the same name on the list server, its members will not get permissions from the local group |
| 22:40.02 | brlcad | i get LOCAL.OPERATOR perms |
| 22:40.09 | Chestal | if you have no OPERATOR group in your groupdb, global OPERATOR group will not be used |
| 22:40.28 | DTRemenak | brlcad: it has nothing to do with /identify vs global login |
| 22:41.15 | DTRemenak | LOCAL. just means that the member list is not fetched from the list server |
| 22:41.20 | DTRemenak | admins have to add members manually |
| 22:41.34 | brlcad | so then I should be able to never global log in and via /idnetify i'll get OPERATOR perms? |
| 22:42.05 | DTRemenak | brlcad: yes, but you could do that with or without the LOCAL. |
| 22:42.12 | DTRemenak | well, maybe not |
| 22:42.18 | brlcad | i.e. will it try to fetch from the list server if I never auth'd to the list server? |
| 22:42.26 | DTRemenak | no |
| 22:42.37 | brlcad | so then I wouldn't get OPERATOR, no? |
| 22:42.49 | brlcad | I'd only get LOCAL.OPERATOR |
| 22:42.52 | DTRemenak | it sends a query to the list server that says "I want to know whether person X is a member of groups X, Y, or Z" |
| 22:43.26 | DTRemenak | admins can manually add players to either LOCAL. or normal groups |
| 22:43.35 | DTRemenak | bzbb CANNOT add ANY players to LOCAL. groups |
| 22:43.49 | brlcad | DTRemenak: even does that if they were not globally authed? |
| 22:43.54 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:44.13 | DTRemenak | brlcad: be more specific with your pronouns |
| 22:44.19 | DTRemenak | I don't know what that or they were |
| 22:44.44 | brlcad | they were that and this is them |
| 22:44.49 | DTRemenak | great :) |
| 22:45.25 | Pimpinella | who's the one to speak to, to have global groups set up? |
| 22:45.48 | Pimpinella | for my servers user management |
| 22:45.50 | DTRemenak | Pimpinella: any bzbb admin. TimRiker, JeffM2501, Nidhoggr, learner, maybe others. |
| 22:46.02 | Pimpinella | ty DTRemenak |
| 22:46.07 | brlcad | DTRemenak: hrm.. so if I don't global auth, but I identify, will server ask list server which groups i'm in? |
| 22:46.12 | DTRemenak | no |
| 22:46.20 | DTRemenak | it'll look at the groupdb file to figure that out |
| 22:46.33 | DTRemenak | or userdb |
| 22:46.37 | DTRemenak | or whatever one it is |
| 22:47.00 | DTRemenak | if you don't globally auth, then everything works just like 1.10 |
| 22:49.13 | Pimpinella | ...i have to log in locally to gain access to perms of a local group? |
| 22:49.24 | DTRemenak | no |
| 22:49.38 | DTRemenak | you can be globally authed and added to a local group |
| 22:49.52 | DTRemenak | but only by an admin, not by the list server |
| 22:50.07 | Pimpinella | ok |
| 22:50.27 | *** join/#bzflag captain_courageo (~51a8669d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:51.10 | Pimpinella | if i used the register command, can i still be authed by the listserver on that server? |
| 22:51.35 | DTRemenak | yes, but only if you're added to the LOCAL.GLOBAL group by the admin |
| 22:51.37 | Pimpinella | and access privs originally given to the locally registered user? |
| 22:51.48 | DTRemenak | yes, same requirement |
| 22:52.19 | Pimpinella | aaaaah LOCAL.GLOBAL is some kind of exchange group? |
| 22:52.22 | DTRemenak | basically the admin has to confirm that the locally and globally registered people are the same person, then he can effectively make them one account by adding them to that group |
| 22:52.25 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:53.04 | Chestal | Pimpinella: it is assumed that /register will be the exception |
| 22:53.12 | Pimpinella | k |
| 22:53.26 | Chestal | Pimpinella: but this scheme also allows to use old user files for transation |
| 22:53.29 | DTRemenak | if you're globally registered first, and then locally register afterwards, you're automatically granted LOCAL.GLOBAL |
| 22:53.44 | DTRemenak | if you locally register first, then an admin has to grant you LOCAL.GLOBAL |
| 22:54.01 | DTRemenak | or else you won't be able to use your global login on that server |
| 22:55.02 | Pimpinella | Chestal: sure, but that makes migration uncomfortable for the admins |
| 22:55.38 | Pimpinella | u'm unwilling to confirm 1600 accounts by hand |
| 22:55.43 | Chestal | Pimpinella: if you want to switch to global logins, there is effort invovled anyway |
| 22:55.52 | Chestal | 1600? |
| 22:56.12 | DTRemenak | Pimpinella: if they have no group membership, you can erase their registrations without a problem. they'll need to re-register locally or register globally. |
| 22:56.18 | Chestal | I am sure there lots of people registered on my server with callsigns which are not identical to their bzbb logins |
| 22:56.31 | DTRemenak | the only ones you need to worry about are the ones which have group memebership |
| 22:56.44 | Pimpinella | almost 1100 on viper and the rest on the others |
| 22:57.06 | Pimpinella | DTRemenak: true |
| 22:57.16 | Chestal | yes, I'd purge all without special perms |
| 22:57.25 | Chestal | most will be stale anyway I'd assume |
| 22:57.27 | DTRemenak | if I were in your shoes I'd copy all the ones that had membership into a new userdb and wipe the old one out |
| 22:57.56 | Pimpinella | or i'll tell them to /deregister if they want to use global login |
| 22:57.59 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:58.34 | DTRemenak | LOCAL.GLOBAL is only important for priviledged users with preexisting local group membership |
| 23:00.17 | DTRemenak | and for that matter, if you want to use global groups, it might not be important at all...e.g. you might want to just wipe your userdb and passdb entirely. |
| 23:00.46 | DTRemenak | but for a lot of people that will be way too big a leap |
| 23:01.07 | Pimpinella | no, i want to keep local grops in case the listserver is down |
| 23:01.14 | brlcad | I'm hoping we really do eventually get either linked names or proper alias support so that reregistration isn't needed |
| 23:01.30 | Pimpinella | brlcad: ack |
| 23:02.02 | brlcad | ack? |
| 23:02.20 | DTRemenak | brlcad: whatever happened to the redundant listservers thing? |
| 23:02.35 | brlcad | take a guess |
| 23:02.51 | Pimpinella | brlcad: i support that point |
| 23:02.58 | DTRemenak | I could take several, but I'm guessing it just died from malnutrition |
| 23:03.11 | brlcad | malness of sorts, yes |
| 23:03.43 | Pimpinella | anyway, midnight, sleeping time, g'nite, ty DTRemenak and Chestal |
| 23:03.49 | DTRemenak | I think that would be an even better idea now...we get a lot of "what if the list server is down" |
| 23:03.54 | DTRemenak | 'night Pimpinella |
| 23:04.18 | brlcad | demotivated into the background thoughts for now |
| 23:04.34 | brlcad | DTRemenak: we could get one up and running on bzflag.bz pretty easily |
| 23:04.45 | brlcad | and work towards syncing |
| 23:04.55 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 23:05.21 | DTRemenak | not really time-critical, just wondering |
| 23:05.35 | brlcad | yeah, I think it was just pushed aside |
| 23:06.04 | brlcad | mostly so we could just release .. though partly demotivationed and distracted too |
| 23:06.07 | DTRemenak | I actually feel bad asking, because I know I'm almost totally incapable of helping with that |
| 23:07.12 | DTRemenak | we need to find an antidemotivator serum :) |
| 23:08.05 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@84.222.137.63) |
| 23:10.31 | ruskie | lol |
| 23:10.40 | *** join/#bzflag anteater (~45f06ea8@rw08.de) |
| 23:11.27 | *** part/#bzflag anteater (~45f06ea8@rw08.de) |
| 23:12.29 | brlcad | hehehe |
| 23:12.35 | CIA-4 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/man/bzfs.6s: go into more detail about the global registration system, LOCAL. groups and more. |
| 23:13.30 | brlcad | k, should be able to cut n' paste those sections from bzfs.6s and maybe bzflag.6s for a wiki .. |
| 23:13.36 | brlcad | but for now |
| 23:13.44 | brlcad | I must consume mass quantities.. |
| 23:14.22 | *** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:14.27 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~wegstar@adsl-67-123-175-150.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:14.56 | wegstar | heh.. nice message |
| 23:16.27 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 23:16.34 | [dmp] | Chestal: ping? |
| 23:16.54 | Tupone | hi [dmp] |
| 23:16.59 | [dmp] | hi Tupone |
| 23:17.23 | [dmp] | menotume: ping? |
| 23:17.28 | *** topic/#bzflag by brlcad -> http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || 1.11.x builds http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Releases posted in a few hours.. don't ask, just watch, and wait (quietly) || NOW SHUT THE HECK UP! |
| 23:18.11 | brlcad | [dmp]: ping? |
| 23:18.33 | [dmp] | brlcad: pong :) |
| 23:18.42 | brlcad | just checking :) |
| 23:18.54 | brlcad | ahh |
| 23:18.59 | [dmp] | before i forget |
| 23:20.31 | brlcad | if you say it on a line with his name, i'm sure he'll read it |
| 23:21.53 | brlcad | like this, Chestal .. All panel is bound to have changed a lot, is it useful to have it colored at all? |
| 23:21.56 | *** join/#bzflag newbie__dont (~janko@dks149.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 23:22.32 | Tupone | Chestal: I left the 'All not clearing the other tab' on purpose, cause 'All' is too much populate. Not sure about what is the "best" approach. I just know that uncoloring the other tab does not inspire me a lot |
| 23:23.25 | brlcad | oh you mean watching all not clearing the others.. hrm |
| 23:23.34 | brlcad | that's the opposite of what I was thinking |
| 23:23.46 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:25.23 | menotume | [dmp] ? |
| 23:26.09 | *** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:26.27 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user) |
| 23:26.38 | Chestal | hmm, though this is the most logical way for the tab coloring |
| 23:26.48 | Chestal | but if you want to change, go ahead, I don't have the tabs visible anyway |
| 23:27.04 | Tupone | next release :) |
| 23:27.07 | menotume | brlcad: When is the new release ? |
| 23:27.17 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:27.20 | menotume | :P |
| 23:27.38 | brlcad | ~whaleslap menotume |
| 23:27.40 | ibot | ACTION slaps menotume upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 23:27.41 | DTRemenak | menotume: better be careful, he's liable to kick people who ask that :) |
| 23:27.46 | menotume | muwahawaha |
| 23:28.01 | menotume | it was too quiet |
| 23:28.29 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 23:28.59 | Tupone | ciao Orchid, come va ? |
| 23:29.28 | orchid | ciao Tupone |
| 23:40.32 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego|Desk@adsl-67-37-225-170.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 23:49.39 | SportChick | question": how do you handle people one global reg who don't have emails? |
| 23:49.51 | SportChick | that's a situation lots of the kids are in |
| 23:50.15 | wegstar | kids? |
| 23:50.18 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a5:3b8f:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 23:50.48 | wegstar | is the email really required? |
| 23:53.04 | SportChick | dunno - it seems to be to register |
| 23:53.34 | SportChick | tupone, timriker, brlcad, dtremenak: so what to do re: global registration for folks who don't have email? |
| 23:54.48 | blast007 | the email is required to register, because they must activate their account |
| 23:55.07 | blast007 | but they don't necessarily have to register to play |
| 23:55.58 | *** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com) |
| 23:58.01 | SportChick | blast007: can multiple names be tied to a single email? |
| 23:58.25 | SportChick | also, I thought it was a server setting to allow someone to play without global registration. Is that incorrect? |
| 23:58.28 | wegstar | no |
| 23:58.41 | wegstar | anybody can play.. |
| 23:58.45 | wegstar | registered or not |
| 23:59.37 | SportChick | hrmmmm |
| 23:59.38 | trepan | unless -requireidentify is used, or whatever equivalent mechanisms that are now |
| 23:59.51 | trepan | s/that/there |
| 23:59.59 | wegstar | ah |