| 00:02.37 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 00:02.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 00:03.30 | *** join/#bzflag scanlime (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 00:12.41 | creeperz | work sux0rz |
| 00:13.19 | creeperz | i dink i bwoke my lil toe :-( |
| 00:13.31 | creeperz | ok, back to installing fedora |
| 00:14.41 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-72-67.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 00:23.50 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.220) |
| 00:23.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 00:43.13 | *** join/#bzflag RuFiToS (~rufitos@adslsapo-b3-237-223.telepac.pt) |
| 01:16.38 | creeperz | no! the bottle of dew needs mouth to mouth! |
| 01:22.46 | creeperz | it would be alive...but its empty now |
| 01:40.48 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~tim@209-102-174-73.coastalnow.net) |
| 01:54.22 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 01:54.25 | creeperz | ...booger... |
| 01:54.59 | *** part/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 01:54.59 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 02:10.25 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-227-241.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 02:13.23 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-137.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 02:15.33 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage_ (strayer@dyn216-8-132-219.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 02:25.21 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 02:31.29 | shkoo | doesn't bzflag supposedly have mingw32 support? |
| 02:31.57 | MrApathyCream | no idea, not that i'm aware |
| 02:32.24 | *** part/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-179-73-220-24.midco.net) |
| 02:32.39 | shkoo | well, there's a README.MINGW32 that describes how to compile it under mingw32. :) i'm assuming it's out of date... |
| 02:32.39 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-179-73-220-24.midco.net) |
| 02:32.40 | DTRemenak | at one time it did |
| 02:32.41 | Patlabor221 | people have tried |
| 02:32.49 | Patlabor221 | people have failed |
| 02:33.04 | MrApathyCream | shkoo: most likely hopelessly |
| 02:33.22 | Patlabor221 | the windows version uses direct X and geting that to work in minGW seemed to be a sticky point for some |
| 02:33.56 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 02:34.14 | Patlabor221 | it does not come with the needed libs and headers and the like |
| 02:34.17 | MrApathyCream | that would seem icky |
| 02:34.34 | Patlabor221 | you should be able to downlaod them, if minGW will take a .lib file |
| 02:35.01 | MrApathyCream | what is directx used for? |
| 02:35.04 | Patlabor221 | any directX version 3 or higher will |
| 02:35.14 | Patlabor221 | the res switch and to get direct access to the sound card |
| 02:35.21 | MrApathyCream | ah |
| 02:35.25 | DTRemenak | README.MINGW32 is signed "atupone", perhaps you should talk to him :) |
| 02:35.51 | MrApathyCream | does sdl support those functions w/o directx? |
| 02:36.04 | Patlabor221 | the app would not need to dreclty link to direct X, no |
| 02:36.13 | Patlabor221 | but SDL uses directX internaly |
| 02:36.22 | Patlabor221 | you would need DX if you were to build the SDL libs |
| 02:36.39 | Patlabor221 | so it is better |
| 02:36.44 | Patlabor221 | and would work on more compilers |
| 02:36.54 | Patlabor221 | since they have a set of dev libs |
| 02:36.57 | Patlabor221 | for SDL |
| 02:37.26 | Patlabor221 | SDL takes care of allmost everything the BZflag "platform" classes do |
| 02:37.28 | Patlabor221 | and more |
| 02:38.06 | Patlabor221 | it can even take care of your main for you if you want |
| 02:38.35 | Patlabor221 | like GLUT did for you in that overly complex gl project you did :) |
| 02:38.53 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 02:39.43 | Patlabor221 | IIRC when I hooked up the direcX res swap, bz didn't even have a res menu |
| 02:40.03 | Patlabor221 | I had added one that was a windows dialog that poped up each time |
| 02:40.46 | sussudio | those north koreans sure know how to curse...... "you dogface! you are less than my left foot!" |
| 02:41.06 | Patlabor221 | is that better or worse the the right foot |
| 02:41.13 | sussudio | *shrug* |
| 02:41.17 | Patlabor221 | heh, I would not say"heavaly" |
| 02:41.27 | Patlabor221 | but that was when it looked like it could go somewhere :) |
| 02:41.44 | Patlabor221 | no patches, no SF |
| 02:41.53 | Patlabor221 | just people busting out code to a plan |
| 02:42.04 | Patlabor221 | had a list of things to do, and did them |
| 02:42.18 | MrApathyCream | now your talking crazy |
| 02:42.29 | Patlabor221 | the past holds many secrets |
| 02:43.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o MrApathyCream] by ChanServ |
| 02:43.08 | Patlabor221 | at the time, quake was new, bz was one of the "premere" apps |
| 02:43.25 | Patlabor221 | that is no longer the case |
| 02:43.45 | MrApathyCream | sheesh was that 1990? |
| 02:44.00 | Patlabor221 | 92 maybe |
| 02:44.04 | Patlabor221 | no, 94 |
| 02:44.07 | Patlabor221 | or 95 |
| 02:44.41 | Patlabor221 | doom came out in 94 |
| 02:44.52 | Patlabor221 | or 93 sorry |
| 02:45.02 | Patlabor221 | so all we had was quake demos |
| 02:45.08 | Patlabor221 | not neven the real game |
| 02:45.11 | creeperz | doom :-) |
| 02:45.16 | Patlabor221 | we played marathon |
| 02:45.20 | Patlabor221 | and lots of it |
| 02:45.45 | Patlabor221 | we only had like 3 machiens that could play BZ at more then 5 fps |
| 02:45.50 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 02:46.06 | Patlabor221 | and there was no OpenGL on the mac so I couldn't port it |
| 02:46.12 | MrApathyCream | there's pat over there hiding behind that red box |
| 02:46.55 | Patlabor221 | for speed we ran in wireframe |
| 02:47.05 | Patlabor221 | on the p90s |
| 02:47.11 | Patlabor221 | they were screamers |
| 02:47.21 | MrApathyCream | ah... so much for stealth |
| 02:47.33 | Patlabor221 | tho when I did the directX stuff I had a P2 233 with a permida 2 |
| 02:47.38 | Patlabor221 | I could turn on textures |
| 02:48.53 | shkoo | i think i remember running bzflag on sgi. either that or it was something really similar. |
| 02:49.12 | Patlabor221 | there was another one with planes that was similar |
| 02:50.01 | Patlabor221 | well I must go get food before the world closes and gets drunk |
| 02:50.13 | creeperz | i remember the first day i played bz cap kicked me from his server :-) |
| 02:50.20 | MrApathyCream | hehe |
| 02:50.20 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@pool-162-84-20-169.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:50.52 | creeperz | that was quite a while back there too :-D |
| 02:55.43 | creeperz | i dont worry too much...robots will soon replace my job... |
| 02:56.13 | sussudio | s/robots/bunnies/ |
| 02:56.35 | creeperz | i hate bunnies |
| 02:56.55 | sussudio | i for one welcome our new longeared masters |
| 02:57.09 | creeperz | haha |
| 02:57.36 | sussudio | in soviet russia the bunnies eat YOU for christmas |
| 02:57.46 | creeperz | ... |
| 02:58.16 | sussudio | bunnies; nature's beowulf cluster |
| 03:01.24 | *** join/#bzflag bunnies (Bunnies@81.68.131.0) |
| 03:01.29 | bunnies | all your carrots are belong to us! |
| 03:01.48 | creeperz | who was that?! :-) |
| 03:02.05 | sussudio | them. |
| 03:02.11 | creeperz | they who? |
| 03:02.17 | sussudio | them! |
| 03:02.24 | creeperz | them!? |
| 03:02.26 | creeperz | ? |
| 03:02.55 | sussudio | ~them |
| 03:02.56 | | They're everywhere! |
| 03:04.23 | creeperz | ~ring bunnies |
| 03:04.27 | | before bunnies dies, they see the ring |
| 03:27.16 | *** join/#bzflag Michaelh (Mouse@172-188.dynamic.visi.com) |
| 03:27.34 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 03:27.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 03:28.49 | Patlabor221 | ahhh there we go, back to a gig and a half of ram :) |
| 03:29.53 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-222.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 03:30.34 | creeperz | how do i ask ibot info on a server? |
| 03:30.49 | creeperz | ~bzquery 24.220.73.179 |
| 03:31.11 | Patlabor221 | ~literal d |
| 03:31.13 | | d is <reply> see bzfquery ducati.bzflag.org:5156 |
| 03:31.21 | Patlabor221 | your missing an F |
| 03:31.31 | creeperz | ah |
| 03:31.48 | creeperz | ~bzfquery 24.220.73.179:5154 |
| 03:33.15 | creeperz | host-179-73-220-24.midco.net |
| 03:33.15 | MrApathyCream | mmmm chicken aldavo |
| 03:33.16 | bryjen | ~d |
| 03:33.33 | bryjen | ~bzfquery bryjen.bzflag.org:5157 |
| 03:33.56 | bryjen | ~bzfquery 24.220.73.179:5154 |
| 03:35.35 | creeperz | what is wrong with this? : -ms 10 -passwd "PASSWORD" -world "C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\maps\creepy.map" -rabbit +f good +f good -d -d +r -j -publicaddr "24.220.73.179" -public "message" |
| 03:35.40 | Patlabor221 | no time for love Dr. Jones |
| 03:35.51 | Patlabor221 | what is the error? |
| 03:36.03 | creeperz | not showing up in public server list |
| 03:36.13 | Patlabor221 | what version? |
| 03:36.15 | Patlabor221 | 1.10? |
| 03:36.18 | creeperz | 1.10.2 |
| 03:36.39 | Patlabor221 | is there a real route to that address? |
| 03:36.50 | creeperz | what do you mean? |
| 03:37.03 | bryjen | you shouldnt need the qoutes around the ip address. and try adding the port number |
| 03:37.12 | creeperz | ok |
| 03:37.33 | Patlabor221 | it's a bum route |
| 03:37.37 | Patlabor221 | I can't get to that server |
| 03:37.46 | Patlabor221 | so probably nether can the listserver |
| 03:37.47 | creeperz | now? |
| 03:37.52 | Patlabor221 | are you behind a fireall? |
| 03:38.00 | creeperz | no |
| 03:38.10 | Patlabor221 | nope |
| 03:38.16 | Patlabor221 | well something isn't geting thru |
| 03:38.19 | creeperz | ~bzfquery 24.220.73.179 |
| 03:38.30 | Patlabor221 | you sure that the port is right |
| 03:38.35 | Patlabor221 | and your ISP allows it? |
| 03:38.36 | creeperz | 5154 |
| 03:38.47 | creeperz | i ran a public server on my linux box |
| 03:38.54 | Patlabor221 | ok |
| 03:38.54 | creeperz | for about 15 sec |
| 03:39.04 | Patlabor221 | well I can't get to it |
| 03:39.05 | creeperz | then iirc i had one here too |
| 03:39.11 | bryjen | traceroute dies at 24.220.2.100 |
| 03:39.13 | creeperz | on my windows box |
| 03:39.29 | Patlabor221 | ISP probably no likey that porty |
| 03:39.52 | bryjen | doesnt ping from here either |
| 03:40.19 | Patlabor221 | ok, bryjen if I start to remove the #project24 channel tonight, you need to kick me |
| 03:40.33 | bryjen | huh? |
| 03:40.43 | Patlabor221 | bottle, being opend again |
| 03:41.55 | creeperz | dang |
| 03:45.30 | creeperz | uugh |
| 03:47.29 | creeperz | dang you poopie head, bzfs! |
| 03:47.39 | Patlabor221 | umm dude it's your ISP |
| 03:47.45 | Patlabor221 | or the computer, not the software |
| 03:47.52 | creeperz | so... :-) |
| 03:48.39 | creeperz | first they shut off my cable for a week, then my ip addy rotates, now this |
| 03:48.57 | Patlabor221 | dynamic IPs are like that |
| 03:49.00 | Patlabor221 | get a DSL |
| 03:49.08 | creeperz | hah |
| 03:49.26 | creeperz | i doubt theres a place in the area to get a dsl |
| 03:49.47 | Patlabor221 | then quit yer bitchin' :) |
| 03:49.54 | creeperz | ;-) |
| 03:49.54 | Patlabor221 | cus it's ether that or dialup |
| 03:50.00 | Patlabor221 | and you know you don't want to go back to that |
| 03:50.01 | creeperz | :-( |
| 03:50.34 | Michaelh | sure ya do |
| 03:51.04 | Michaelh | perhaps they want to pay for "pro" service to run servers |
| 03:51.15 | Michaelh | use a funky port? |
| 03:51.25 | Michaelh | like 99999999999999999999 |
| 03:51.29 | Michaelh | ? |
| 03:51.33 | Michaelh | :) |
| 03:51.34 | creeperz | good idea ;-) |
| 03:52.44 | RuFiToS | hey guys Happy New year :)) |
| 03:53.31 | creeperz | good way to start a new year: a bottle of jd and a sheep |
| 03:53.33 | Michaelh | It's not a new year yet |
| 03:53.59 | Patlabor221 | is it tomorow somewhere yet? |
| 03:53.59 | RuFiToS | for me yes im on 2004 for 4 hours now :))))) |
| 03:54.01 | Patlabor221 | it must be |
| 03:54.26 | RuFiToS | who opened a bottle??? |
| 03:54.43 | creeperz | the bunnies |
| 03:54.47 | bryjen | from the mid-pacific all the way west past europe and the uk |
| 03:55.04 | RuFiToS | yep |
| 03:55.58 | RuFiToS | hey monkey |
| 03:57.04 | m0nkey_poo | uugh |
| 03:57.14 | m0nkey_poo | why do i listen to "stacey's mom"?! |
| 03:57.41 | m0nkey_poo | did* |
| 03:57.52 | *** join/#bzflag MrAC (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-191.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 03:59.03 | Patlabor221 | Ginsing last I heard |
| 03:59.16 | RuFiToS | oh chestal smokes?? |
| 03:59.27 | RuFiToS | what did he smooke?? |
| 03:59.35 | m0nkey_poo | bunnies |
| 03:59.37 | MrAC | does anyone get 'killed by <unknown>' when killed by a world weapon? |
| 03:59.41 | MrAC | i don't |
| 03:59.43 | m0nkey_poo | the mob smoked the bunnies |
| 03:59.50 | RuFiToS | oh |
| 03:59.51 | Patlabor221 | that is an older bug |
| 04:00.07 | MrAC | i removed it and he put it back today |
| 04:00.16 | MrAC | <from bugs> |
| 04:00.25 | m0nkey_poo | how do you insert a world object exactly? |
| 04:00.28 | Patlabor221 | I think you only fixed part of it |
| 04:00.37 | Patlabor221 | you read poo |
| 04:00.53 | MrAC | how is it broken then? |
| 04:00.56 | m0nkey_poo | but poo is stinky and has very small letters |
| 04:01.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o MrApathyCream] by ChanServ |
| 04:01.25 | Patlabor221 | there was some problem with the scoreing, you fixed the message but it would screw up somethign else, and I think make it so you could not spawn or something |
| 04:02.11 | MrApathyCream | well, bugs says |
| 04:02.12 | MrApathyCream | - Server handles MsgKilled correctly, but client displays it as 'killed by |
| 04:02.12 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:02.23 | bryjen | i thought that was fixed too... unable to respawn after being kill by something other than a shot (geno, worldweapon...) |
| 04:02.27 | MrApathyCream | i don't get that when i try |
| 04:02.36 | MrApathyCream | bryjen: yes has been fixed (lars) |
| 04:02.42 | Patlabor221 | on his test server I had it happen to me |
| 04:02.46 | Patlabor221 | maybe he's outa sync |
| 04:02.55 | MrApathyCream | perhaps |
| 04:02.57 | Patlabor221 | or he switched to tyme |
| 04:03.42 | MrApathyCream | and another thing... |
| 04:03.46 | MrApathyCream | what's wrong with a shiny rabbit? |
| 04:04.02 | Patlabor221 | how did you add the shine? |
| 04:04.04 | Patlabor221 | put a light in it? |
| 04:04.10 | sussudio | chernobyl bunnies? |
| 04:04.13 | Patlabor221 | or just adjust the material? |
| 04:04.20 | MrApathyCream | i just made it emissive and bumped up the specularity |
| 04:04.37 | Patlabor221 | that won't make it a light in the scene really |
| 04:04.46 | Patlabor221 | it'll just blow out it's shading |
| 04:04.54 | bryjen | rabbits should not radiate |
| 04:04.57 | bryjen | ;) |
| 04:05.11 | Patlabor221 | it only adjusts it's own emisive, it dosn't add light to the scene |
| 04:05.16 | Patlabor221 | it may be drawn after other things |
| 04:05.19 | MrApathyCream | i haven't tried it... it's probably because the two squirrels posing as chestal's video card don't understand |
| 04:05.28 | bryjen | hehe |
| 04:05.32 | shkoo | that'd be cool if it added light to the scene. |
| 04:05.33 | MrApathyCream | yes no added lights |
| 04:05.35 | Patlabor221 | some cards don't like the emisive propertiy |
| 04:05.44 | Patlabor221 | yeah you would have to add a glLight |
| 04:05.45 | Patlabor221 | then it would |
| 04:05.52 | Patlabor221 | but we only have 8 |
| 04:05.57 | MrApathyCream | bz's use of lights is stupid |
| 04:06.01 | Patlabor221 | very |
| 04:06.06 | MrApathyCream | shots should NOT have lights |
| 04:06.08 | Patlabor221 | you done with your lightmap version? |
| 04:06.15 | MrApathyCream | almost |
| 04:06.21 | m0nkey_poo | what exactly arethe bz shots composed of? |
| 04:06.24 | Patlabor221 | talk about pissing off chestal's squirles :) |
| 04:06.24 | MrApathyCream | but the curly braces are all wrong |
| 04:06.30 | Patlabor221 | pixels |
| 04:06.39 | MrApathyCream | m0nkey_poo: they are billboards |
| 04:06.39 | m0nkey_poo | ah |
| 04:06.59 | m0nkey_poo | that must be why they hurt so damn bad |
| 04:07.05 | Patlabor221 | if you went lightmap you would have to do a vertex color verison for the crap cards |
| 04:07.23 | Patlabor221 | you would not want to do 2 real passes |
| 04:07.23 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221: or just say go buy a card, you hoser |
| 04:07.38 | Patlabor221 | if your gonna say that, go with a pixel shader :) |
| 04:07.47 | m0nkey_poo | its almost like a huge ball of solid goo |
| 04:07.53 | Patlabor221 | make em get a GF3 or better |
| 04:08.09 | Patlabor221 | what one? |
| 04:08.11 | bryjen | arrogance |
| 04:08.22 | Patlabor221 | I have had a GF3+ for 2 years now |
| 04:08.23 | MrApathyCream | well i think it's safe to say that a matrox 1000 is too old |
| 04:08.33 | Patlabor221 | I don't even have the FX5700 here |
| 04:08.33 | MrApathyCream | but a 4400 should be ok |
| 04:08.38 | MrApathyCream | or whatever the number is |
| 04:08.43 | Patlabor221 | just a little 4TI 4200 |
| 04:08.46 | Michaelh | how elitist |
| 04:08.50 | bryjen | weren't you talking about a new card recently? |
| 04:08.55 | Patlabor221 | a MX does not have shaders |
| 04:08.57 | Michaelh | Rage Pro is the bomb |
| 04:09.02 | Patlabor221 | yeah I got a FX5700 for work |
| 04:09.02 | MrApathyCream | yes we should support MX |
| 04:09.08 | Patlabor221 | then no shaders |
| 04:09.10 | MrApathyCream | i got a FX5700 Ultra here |
| 04:09.12 | Patlabor221 | but you can lightmap |
| 04:09.17 | MrApathyCream | bootifal |
| 04:09.28 | Michaelh | I can play descent on my virge dudeez |
| 04:09.30 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221: right |
| 04:09.44 | Patlabor221 | and you can then asume hardware T&L |
| 04:09.52 | Patlabor221 | if you say at least a GF1/radeon |
| 04:10.03 | MrApathyCream | we should drop software rendering and the vid card should have been made in the 21 century |
| 04:10.30 | Patlabor221 | then you would invalidate that last /. |
| 04:10.38 | Patlabor221 | you could split rendering into a module |
| 04:10.48 | Patlabor221 | then make builds for each type |
| 04:10.48 | MrApathyCream | MX = 1999? |
| 04:10.55 | Patlabor221 | before IIRC |
| 04:11.06 | Patlabor221 | GF1 would be what your targeting |
| 04:11.11 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 04:11.17 | Patlabor221 | as it's the same as a MX feature wise |
| 04:11.19 | MrApathyCream | but at least it can do something |
| 04:11.23 | Patlabor221 | so 98 I think |
| 04:11.27 | Patlabor221 | yeah it's got T&L |
| 04:11.32 | MrApathyCream | this everysystem is supported stuff is just silly |
| 04:11.47 | Patlabor221 | hell POP requires shaders, and people pay $50 for the thing |
| 04:11.54 | MrApathyCream | How much is the cheapest card (now) that supports that specification? $20? |
| 04:12.07 | Patlabor221 | bout $35 $40 |
| 04:12.15 | Patlabor221 | it's gonna be a 2mx |
| 04:12.17 | MrApathyCream | yeah, i think thats more than reasonable |
| 04:12.23 | Patlabor221 | as finding 1,s and 2,s is hard |
| 04:13.06 | Patlabor221 | looks like you can get some as low as $30 |
| 04:13.16 | Patlabor221 | if you have an AGP slot that is |
| 04:13.31 | Patlabor221 | and your basicly shit-caning all older laptops |
| 04:13.36 | Patlabor221 | they can't upgrade |
| 04:14.03 | MrApathyCream | bryjen: you should do that anyway :) |
| 04:14.09 | Patlabor221 | some people say the ATI ones arn't bad |
| 04:14.19 | Patlabor221 | at least for the 8000+ |
| 04:14.30 | bryjen | I've got a Matrox 450 and a Radeon 7something |
| 04:14.51 | Patlabor221 | last I heard the 7x00 series did not have ATI supported drivers |
| 04:14.55 | MrApathyCream | is matrox dead yet? |
| 04:15.03 | bryjen | then theres the i8xx in the other one |
| 04:15.04 | MrApathyCream | s3 dead? |
| 04:15.05 | Patlabor221 | the DRI people were working on it, but had not had a full implementation |
| 04:15.15 | Patlabor221 | S3 is owned by sonic blue |
| 04:15.23 | Michaelh | hey dudez I have an email entry field now on the join menu, under the port.. can I just commit it? |
| 04:15.24 | Patlabor221 | Matrox makes an OK card |
| 04:15.33 | bryjen | s3/who quit the vid card biz |
| 04:16.02 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: how does anonymous plan in to the menu? |
| 04:16.03 | Patlabor221 | your matrix 450 does not to T&L IIRC, but your radeon should |
| 04:16.12 | MrApathyCream | s/plan/play/ |
| 04:16.25 | Patlabor221 | cus ya know, we don't plan :) |
| 04:16.28 | Michaelh | I just freaking set it to anonymous if the field is blank... anonymous just leaves the thing blank |
| 04:16.39 | bryjen | Patlabor221: that's what i thought, i'm just not sure the open source drivers are there yet |
| 04:16.55 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: s'ok with me |
| 04:17.02 | Patlabor221 | they are slowly, tho you hav to use DRI |
| 04:17.06 | MrApathyCream | Tim might yell at you, but prolly not |
| 04:17.13 | Patlabor221 | and not ones made by the hardware mfg |
| 04:17.18 | Michaelh | narly |
| 04:17.27 | Patlabor221 | the nvidias just freakin work |
| 04:17.30 | MrApathyCream | certainly for 1.12 it's fine |
| 04:17.35 | MrApathyCream | only issue is 1.10.4 |
| 04:17.42 | MrApathyCream | but i'd guess no one will complain either way |
| 04:17.48 | Patlabor221 | and the list of suported OSs keeps geting biger |
| 04:17.51 | bryjen | MrAC: Tim? Isnt he just a bot like that davidt-whoever ? :) |
| 04:18.05 | MrApathyCream | yes nvidia drivers roxors |
| 04:18.07 | Patlabor221 | yeah the veto bot :) |
| 04:18.20 | MrApathyCream | bryjen: a bot that lurkes in the petunias |
| 04:18.57 | bryjen | Ah, so he can pretend the hedgeclippers are for the plants..... I see >:) |
| 04:19.01 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: if it were my patch, and my pants were hot about like yours i just check it in |
| 04:19.20 | bryjen | eww. |
| 04:19.30 | MrApathyCream | ? |
| 04:19.32 | Michaelh | You like my pants? |
| 04:19.45 | MrApathyCream | you folks have dirty minds |
| 04:19.59 | MrApathyCream | the statement was banal and pure |
| 04:20.23 | Patlabor221 | Michaelh: it comes down to this, you just do what you want, noone has a plan or listens to others, you put it in, if Tim dosn't want it, he pulls it |
| 04:20.37 | Michaelh | Ah so |
| 04:20.44 | MrApathyCream | bingo |
| 04:20.52 | Michaelh | I at least like to get some idea if other people would hate it first |
| 04:21.00 | Patlabor221 | it dosn't mater |
| 04:21.01 | MrApathyCream | said like a true gruff but loveable jeff |
| 04:21.03 | Patlabor221 | look at the spawn stuff |
| 04:21.11 | Patlabor221 | it's just how it works |
| 04:21.17 | Patlabor221 | for good or for bad |
| 04:21.30 | Michaelh | I think we have some certain people that go hog wild changing stuff |
| 04:21.31 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: i'm ok with it, and learner will like it, and no one will hate it |
| 04:21.37 | Patlabor221 | they do |
| 04:21.45 | MrApathyCream | well, tim vote abstained |
| 04:21.55 | Patlabor221 | is it ugly? |
| 04:21.56 | bryjen | delayed |
| 04:22.05 | Michaelh | Doesn't look too bad |
| 04:22.22 | Patlabor221 | but does it look good? and fit in with all the other stuff? |
| 04:22.31 | Michaelh | Looks ok |
| 04:22.34 | MrApathyCream | well if it looks good, it won't fit in |
| 04:22.38 | Patlabor221 | I know mac, and he';s the one who should be asking |
| 04:22.38 | Michaelh | in my opinion |
| 04:22.40 | Michaelh | heh |
| 04:23.11 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: is it just menus.cxx and .h? |
| 04:23.27 | Michaelh | tink so |
| 04:23.38 | MrApathyCream | go ahead then. easy to remove if someone flips |
| 04:23.58 | Michaelh | somestuff in bzflag.cxx too |
| 04:24.10 | Michaelh | a few lines |
| 04:24.11 | MrApathyCream | does it fit on a 320x200 display? |
| 04:24.15 | MrApathyCream | chestal will want to know |
| 04:24.17 | Michaelh | uhhhhhhh |
| 04:24.29 | Michaelh | If your email address is small enough? |
| 04:24.47 | bryjen | heading back to the "get a real vid card" territory... |
| 04:25.04 | MrApathyCream | maybe it should be callsign: dave@boohoo.com |
| 04:25.09 | Michaelh | Could always monkey with max character's allowed or font size I suppose |
| 04:25.26 | Michaelh | It allows 128 characters right now :) |
| 04:25.27 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: i'm just being a pain in the arse |
| 04:25.40 | MrApathyCream | typical the ty pes of gripes you may get, if at all |
| 04:27.47 | MrApathyCream | hey pat, what's the trick to get tortoise to convert line endings for you? |
| 04:28.28 | Patlabor221 | umm I just use it |
| 04:29.07 | MrApathyCream | so was i till everyone started yelling at me :) |
| 04:29.26 | Patlabor221 | it dosn't do it for you? |
| 04:29.31 | MrApathyCream | apparently not |
| 04:29.31 | Michaelh | vc++ happily converted them for me :) |
| 04:29.46 | Michaelh | I dunno if tortoise changed them again or not |
| 04:29.48 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: really? what version? |
| 04:29.55 | Patlabor221 | Michaelh: but it won't do it for the dsp and dsw |
| 04:30.01 | Michaelh | ah so |
| 04:30.15 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: it converts them to unix? |
| 04:30.18 | Patlabor221 | umm I don't know how do I see what vers? |
| 04:30.21 | Michaelh | no other way |
| 04:30.44 | Patlabor221 | 1.2.2 |
| 04:30.53 | MrApathyCream | 1.4.5 |
| 04:30.56 | Patlabor221 | dono |
| 04:31.03 | Michaelh | hmmm |
| 04:31.16 | Patlabor221 | I allways just co and commit as normal and noone complains |
| 04:31.16 | Michaelh | ooops.. |
| 04:31.23 | Patlabor221 | and it look fine on leenox |
| 04:31.28 | Michaelh | heh |
| 04:31.34 | Michaelh | I may be doing the same thing |
| 04:31.54 | MrApathyCream | Hmm i wonder what this 'Use Unix line endings' checkbox in the preferences dialog does.... |
| 04:31.55 | Michaelh | tortoise does it automatically? |
| 04:32.15 | Michaelh | .. late enough versions? |
| 04:33.06 | Michaelh | what is edit and unedit ? |
| 04:34.54 | Patlabor221 | ~dict edit |
| 04:36.17 | MrApathyCream | prolly just dirties and undirties the file |
| 04:36.20 | MrApathyCream | a gui thing |
| 04:39.11 | Michaelh | there's a tortoise 1.6 now |
| 04:39.35 | *** join/#bzflag DemolitionMan (~chase@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 04:39.35 | *** part/#bzflag RuFiToS (~rufitos@adslsapo-b3-237-223.telepac.pt) |
| 04:45.20 | MrApathyCream | Michaelh: looks good |
| 04:45.59 | Michaelh | pretty simple |
| 04:46.50 | Michaelh | pretty complex code that goes into the database stuff |
| 04:47.12 | Michaelh | it never stores a blank email address |
| 04:47.21 | Michaelh | set email "" doesn't stick |
| 04:47.35 | Michaelh | but set anonymous 1 does stick :) |
| 04:48.26 | Michaelh | I got sick of trying to figure it out |
| 04:48.33 | sussudio | most of creeperz' clothes stick too |
| 04:49.40 | Michaelh | somebody loves to pass functions around as data |
| 04:49.52 | Michaelh | which I suppose is cool in some ways |
| 04:50.25 | MrApathyCream | makes it clear as mud, no? |
| 04:50.30 | Michaelh | heh |
| 04:50.34 | Michaelh | plus the singleton defines |
| 04:50.58 | Michaelh | #define BZDB blah->instance() |
| 04:51.03 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 04:51.13 | Michaelh | which are hidden in header files |
| 04:51.48 | Michaelh | obviously someone who only uses a text editor... |
| 04:51.51 | Michaelh | :) |
| 04:52.36 | Michaelh | Meanwhile the vc people are frantically waving the mouse over the thing try to figure out what it is |
| 04:54.20 | Michaelh | if a battery dies on a laptop, can you still run it with the AC adapter? |
| 04:54.55 | MrApathyCream | should |
| 04:54.58 | Michaelh | I have a laptop but it stopped charging, not sure if it's the adapter or the bettery |
| 04:55.39 | Michaelh | I've been killing electronic stuff left and right |
| 04:56.03 | Michaelh | might be my big fuzzy sweater I'm wearing :) |
| 04:56.12 | Noodleman | lol |
| 04:56.12 | Michaelh | heh |
| 04:57.18 | Michaelh | probably just have to get within a foot of something electronic and it starts destroying stuff |
| 04:57.46 | Michaelh | hmmm |
| 04:57.46 | Noodleman | i've got a laptop that if you leave it plugged in for a long time, it will kill the battery |
| 04:58.15 | Noodleman | fortunately, it's a really old one which i don't use anymore :-) |
| 04:58.59 | Noodleman | which works perfectly in linux, no less :-) |
| 04:59.04 | Michaelh | This one is ancient too, the a/c light doesn't come on anymore |
| 04:59.15 | Noodleman | funky |
| 04:59.26 | Michaelh | I think the adapter is toast |
| 04:59.51 | Noodleman | stick the end you plug into the laptop on your tongue |
| 05:00.04 | Michaelh | Can you fry a laptop through the keyboard with static electricity? |
| 05:00.08 | Noodleman | if it tastes funny, or makes you giggle, it works fine :-) |
| 05:00.14 | Michaelh | thanks |
| 05:00.19 | Noodleman | i have no idea about that |
| 05:01.11 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-179-73-220-24.midco.net) |
| 05:01.22 | Michaelh | Seems a reasonable question while i'm mr static |
| 05:01.40 | Noodleman | you should walk around outside with your socks off |
| 05:02.03 | Michaelh | this is minnesota |
| 05:02.06 | Noodleman | i do it all year long, whether there's snow or weeds |
| 05:02.09 | Noodleman | :-) |
| 05:02.12 | MrApathyCream | 2004 |
| 05:02.15 | creeperz | i live in south dakota :-) |
| 05:02.26 | Noodleman | happy new year, EST!!!!!! |
| 05:02.30 | Michaelh | it's like 10-15 degrees out there |
| 05:02.31 | MrApathyCream | w00t |
| 05:02.50 | Michaelh | Did the terrorist blow up the big ball? |
| 05:03.03 | Noodleman | haha, did they? |
| 05:03.04 | Michaelh | nuts |
| 05:03.55 | Noodleman | 1 of 2 things would have happened: |
| 05:04.05 | Noodleman | if the ball is airtight, it would have exploded |
| 05:04.22 | Noodleman | or, if not, it would look like there was a fire inside of it |
| 05:05.38 | Noodleman | i should get my mom to call my aunt and wake her up when it's 12:00 PST |
| 05:05.51 | Noodleman | she's always asleep by 9:00 |
| 05:06.03 | Noodleman | *fun and laughs* |
| 05:24.26 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-126-24.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 05:26.13 | MrApathyCream | ouch |
| 05:27.00 | MrApathyCream | captain_proton's new years resolution: Put the BZFlag hat on |
| 05:30.25 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-227-130.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 05:33.00 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~tim@209-102-174-73.coastalnow.net) |
| 05:33.44 | MrApathyCream | off to wish the horsies a happy new year |
| 05:33.58 | |tim| | I was just shot by someone (who wasn't on my team) and it said "Killed by teammate Sir Bleh" (and no his nick wasn't teammate sir bleh)? |
| 05:34.22 | Noodleman | heh |
| 05:46.05 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@128.138.207.240) |
| 05:52.04 | MrApathyCream | anyone know what value for -longitude i should pass to get sunrise currently? |
| 05:52.41 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-126-24.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 05:52.43 | sussudio | about moscow |
| 05:52.46 | bryjen | you can adjust the time of day in game |
| 05:52.56 | MrApathyCream | key? |
| 05:53.04 | bryjen | + and - i think |
| 05:53.15 | bryjen | or maybe not with 1.10 |
| 05:53.19 | bryjen | 1.7 |
| 05:53.58 | MrApathyCream | hmm not in key mapping screen |
| 05:54.38 | sussudio | 35 east should do it |
| 05:55.11 | MrApathyCream | -longitude 35 east ? |
| 05:55.23 | sussudio | umm |
| 05:55.40 | sussudio | just 35 |
| 05:55.44 | sussudio | or -35 |
| 05:55.54 | sussudio | whatever gets your sun up :-P |
| 05:56.32 | MrApathyCream | wow -longitude 35east really screws up the mountains |
| 05:56.43 | sussudio | the urals? |
| 05:57.32 | DTRemenak | about -25 seems to work pretty good |
| 05:57.36 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 05:57.37 | DTRemenak | as far as sunrise |
| 05:57.49 | DTRemenak | and +/- do work, but are not in the keymapping screen |
| 05:58.10 | MrApathyCream | DTRemenak: yes -25 is good |
| 05:58.21 | MrApathyCream | chestal's problem is just him (again) |
| 05:58.25 | DTRemenak | a little earlier and you get a pink sky :) |
| 05:58.51 | *** join/#bzflag electrician067 (electricia@ics.thinkerworks.com) |
| 06:00.00 | *** part/#bzflag electrician067 (electricia@ics.thinkerworks.com) |
| 06:00.23 | DTRemenak | otoh, feeding non-numeric values for longitude does nice things to the sky ;) |
| 06:00.25 | bryjen | MrApathyCream: TimeBackward and TimeForward in the Option, Change Key Mapping |
| 06:00.41 | bryjen | menu |
| 06:02.58 | MrApathyCream | ah bryjen. gotcha |
| 06:03.54 | bryjen | I was suprised to find the there. thought it was another "hidden" feature like setting an email addy |
| 06:04.38 | MrApathyCream | bryjen: email address is in join menu of course! :) |
| 06:04.58 | bryjen | is. not was. |
| 06:05.10 | MrApathyCream | j/k |
| 06:05.33 | bryjen | yikes. it must be 2004. idiots with explosives nearby. |
| 06:07.01 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 06:49.15 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 06:52.44 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~tim@209-102-174-73.coastalnow.net) |
| 07:16.58 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak_ (~DTRemenak@host-224-137.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 07:21.53 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 07:41.09 | DTRemenak | If a BZDB var needs sanity checking done, where should it be done? |
| 07:43.04 | MrApathyCream | well.. |
| 07:43.17 | MrApathyCream | i suppose on load and if its changable in game |
| 07:44.06 | DTRemenak | right, but... |
| 07:44.32 | DTRemenak | let's say a var needs to be numeric, and is loaded either from the commandline, or a config file, or is changed in game |
| 07:45.10 | MrApathyCream | well, statedatabase should be embellished to have min/max fields, perhaps |
| 07:45.57 | MrApathyCream | gravity should never be >= 0 |
| 07:46.04 | MrApathyCream | for instance ? :) |
| 07:46.04 | DTRemenak | but min/max wouldn't do anything for if you entered "ZZ" instead of "12" |
| 07:46.44 | MrApathyCream | well we probably use scanf like functionality which should return 0, or perhaps i'm just dreaming |
| 07:47.27 | DTRemenak | BZDB.eval returns NaN if the value has been set to a string, it seems |
| 07:47.59 | DTRemenak | but that would force the sanity checking into whatever was USING the var, output not input |
| 07:49.26 | MrApathyCream | can't you mod BZDB->set ? |
| 07:50.09 | DTRemenak | wouldn't that make things rather messy? |
| 07:50.23 | MrApathyCream | how so? |
| 07:51.06 | DTRemenak | back atcha: maybe I'm misunderstanding you...mod BZDB->set how? |
| 07:51.35 | MrApathyCream | oh i see set takes strings... only eval knows better |
| 07:51.40 | DTRemenak | ya |
| 07:52.15 | DTRemenak | overload it to take floats? |
| 07:52.20 | MrApathyCream | could |
| 07:52.32 | MrApathyCream | but that code is a hornet's nest iirc |
| 07:52.33 | DTRemenak | but that wouldn't help when parsing config files |
| 07:53.10 | MrApathyCream | dunno... patches welcome |
| 07:53.11 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 07:53.17 | DTRemenak | lol |
| 07:53.30 | DTRemenak | I'm trying...would I be asking if I wasn't trying to code something? |
| 07:53.38 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 07:55.09 | DTRemenak | BZDB->sanityCheck(std::string varname) with a massive switch satement? |
| 07:55.12 | DTRemenak | j/k |
| 08:08.20 | learner | Happy New Year peoples! |
| 08:09.26 | MrApathyCream | heya peep |
| 08:09.28 | learner | sanity checking via assert macro magic.. goes poof for production code for performance but maintains logic consistency |
| 08:09.40 | learner | feeling better? |
| 08:10.11 | MrApathyCream | learner: sanity s/b there for release as peeps can screw up in game |
| 08:10.53 | learner | s/b == ? |
| 08:11.28 | learner | ah, should be |
| 08:12.01 | learner | i just mean in general -- extra sanity checking for run-time stuff too, of course :) |
| 08:12.15 | learner | the privilege of catching the tail end of a conversation ;) |
| 08:12.18 | DTRemenak | ah, nice fireworks all done now :) |
| 08:15.01 | DTRemenak | so, basically the only option is check on each use? |
| 08:15.30 | MrApathyCream | well eval does caching so you could just check on the first eval access |
| 08:15.55 | MrApathyCream | look at evalCache |
| 08:16.48 | Patlabor221 | Merry New Beer everyoine! |
| 08:16.54 | learner | :( sourceforge support hasn't responded to my support ticket yet .. 2004.01.01 would be a cool start date |
| 08:17.15 | learner | Merry new beer, Patlabor221! |
| 08:18.07 | MrApathyCream | learner: start date for? |
| 08:18.13 | Patlabor221 | oh, we are outa beer, never mind |
| 08:18.35 | Patlabor221 | Merry New Cabernet Savignon |
| 08:18.41 | learner | woo hoo! |
| 08:19.04 | DTRemenak | MAC: but then the sanity checking code would have to go in eval??? |
| 08:19.52 | *** join/#bzflag goofey (~greg@adsl-68-121-163-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:20.12 | MrApathyCream | DTRemenak: yeah, i guess, but protected by the cache so only occurs once |
| 08:20.27 | MrApathyCream | dunno |
| 08:20.31 | DTRemenak | but...eval already returns NaN for non-numeric values |
| 08:20.42 | MrApathyCream | prolly why no one has tackled it yet |
| 08:20.45 | goofey | any gentoo users here? |
| 08:20.58 | DTRemenak | which forces the checks back into wherever the var is used |
| 08:21.04 | DTRemenak | grr |
| 08:21.17 | MrApathyCream | huh? |
| 08:21.43 | DTRemenak | huh what? |
| 08:21.45 | goofey | hrm, I have a gentoo-specific bzflag question.... (I think) |
| 08:22.01 | learner | hi goofey |
| 08:22.08 | goofey | heya learner |
| 08:22.21 | Patlabor221 | a couple people use it, wether they are here or not is a difren story |
| 08:22.23 | learner | merry new año |
| 08:22.44 | goofey | mhappy new years to you too! |
| 08:23.12 | goofey | Patlabor221: yeah, that makes sense - well, I'll ask and we'll find out if it's gentoo-specific or not |
| 08:23.20 | learner | MrApathyCream: "//wow thats bad" ... because ? |
| 08:23.40 | MrApathyCream | i was just testing tortoisecvs actually |
| 08:23.48 | MrApathyCream | but relying on structure size is bad |
| 08:24.00 | goofey | running bzflag at the cl gets me: loading fixedbr Can't continue without font: fixedbr Failed to load resource because the 'data'........ |
| 08:24.12 | MrApathyCream | your directories are fubared |
| 08:24.15 | Patlabor221 | where are you running it from? |
| 08:24.17 | MrApathyCream | it can't find the data directory |
| 08:24.19 | Patlabor221 | it can't gind data |
| 08:24.22 | goofey | so, I tried it like this: bzflag -directory /usr/share/bzflag/data/ same error |
| 08:24.23 | Patlabor221 | yeah what he said |
| 08:24.24 | learner | ah, so just the fact that there is a const size that relates directly to a struct size.. gotcha |
| 08:24.26 | learner | yea, bad |
| 08:24.43 | goofey | well, I tried running it from /usr/share/bzflag/data/ - same error |
| 08:24.48 | Patlabor221 | run it from just /usr/share/bzflag |
| 08:24.54 | Patlabor221 | it knows to look for /data |
| 08:24.54 | goofey | k |
| 08:25.22 | learner | is there a readable fixedbr in /usr/share/bzflag/data/. ? |
| 08:25.24 | goofey | same error |
| 08:25.34 | Patlabor221 | yeah then what learner said |
| 08:25.43 | Patlabor221 | you got perms? and is the data there? |
| 08:25.52 | goofey | learner: there is - but it's a fixedb.png - not fixedbr.rgb.... |
| 08:25.56 | learner | fixedbr.png |
| 08:26.06 | Patlabor221 | you running 1.10.x? |
| 08:26.15 | goofey | Patlabor221: yeah - installed via gentoo portage |
| 08:26.25 | learner | there should be no .rgb's in there any more |
| 08:26.27 | Patlabor221 | and it's readable by your current user? |
| 08:27.39 | learner | what does ls -la /usr/share/bzflag/data/fixedbr.png return? |
| 08:27.48 | DTRemenak | time to go to bed, 'night all |
| 08:27.54 | goofey | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root users 1420 Dec 31 23:57 /usr/share/bzflag/data/fixedbr.png |
| 08:27.56 | Patlabor221 | see ya |
| 08:27.57 | learner | g'night DTRemenak |
| 08:28.00 | goofey | DTRemenak: night! |
| 08:28.29 | MrApathyCream | bzfs error: "Something failed" lol |
| 08:28.35 | learner | exec bit? that's not right, but not exactly wrong either |
| 08:28.41 | goofey | the interesting this is there's nothing about this in the gentoo forums - which means it's probably just me... :) |
| 08:29.11 | learner | MrApathyCream: most useless error in bzfs, no? :/ |
| 08:30.21 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 08:30.22 | Patlabor221 | where has CIA gone? |
| 08:30.38 | goofey | the kicker is I get the same error as root.... |
| 08:30.57 | purple_cow | Patlabor221: we're having some navi issues |
| 08:31.01 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 08:31.04 | Patlabor221 | I'm sorry |
| 08:31.07 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 08:31.12 | purple_cow | i think we -might- be ringing in the new year with 580G of data loss |
| 08:31.24 | sussudio | that's a lot of hentai |
| 08:31.27 | Patlabor221 | ohh no, not again |
| 08:31.39 | Patlabor221 | you drop a couple of drives again? |
| 08:31.48 | purple_cow | sussudio: shut your noise hole |
| 08:31.54 | purple_cow | Patlabor221: no, it just decided to hate me |
| 08:31.56 | Patlabor221 | thats a lot of spelunking |
| 08:31.58 | Patlabor221 | :( |
| 08:32.02 | Patlabor221 | need any parts? |
| 08:32.16 | purple_cow | not that i know of |
| 08:32.19 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 08:32.23 | purple_cow | its not hardware |
| 08:32.27 | learner | eek |
| 08:32.33 | Patlabor221 | that makes it harder and suckyer |
| 08:32.52 | learner | need some backup storage? I could probably stash 100GB |
| 08:33.37 | fiberchunks | whee! |
| 08:33.54 | Patlabor221 | are you having a merry new beer fiber? |
| 08:34.04 | fiberchunks | indeed, and you? |
| 08:34.16 | fiberchunks | just got back from a shindig |
| 08:34.18 | Patlabor221 | so ends the year of hell, so yes |
| 08:34.37 | fiberchunks | as long as your IT bullshit is done -- that's a good thing |
| 08:34.37 | learner | goofey, so then probably not permissions.. |
| 08:34.52 | purple_cow | learner: well, we were -just- about to start backing up with some massive CDR purchases |
| 08:34.57 | Patlabor221 | thankfuly the boy didn't show up over the break so nothing busted |
| 08:34.58 | learner | ours wasn't but everyone just went home anyways :) |
| 08:35.27 | Patlabor221 | purple_cow: I can probably get you a DVD+r for $100 |
| 08:35.38 | Patlabor221 | if your interested |
| 08:35.48 | fiberchunks | 580G of data lossage? that sucks :\ |
| 08:35.58 | learner | and blows |
| 08:36.01 | goofey | learner: yeah, that's what I'm thinking |
| 08:36.16 | Patlabor221 | fiberchunks: is a gentoo user |
| 08:36.19 | learner | gentoo builds everything on install, right? |
| 08:36.29 | learner | do you know who set up the gentoo project? |
| 08:36.42 | Patlabor221 | is that game really that good? |
| 08:36.47 | Patlabor221 | I have been told it is |
| 08:36.49 | learner | ~google monkey ball stint |
| 08:37.09 | Patlabor221 | but I can't bring myself to buy a game called "super monkey ball 2" |
| 08:37.11 | goofey | learner: yep - from source |
| 08:37.24 | goofey | learner: no, but it would be easy to find out |
| 08:37.34 | learner | which version? |
| 08:37.37 | learner | supposedly? |
| 08:37.38 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: its ok |
| 08:37.43 | fiberchunks | the make process hasn't changed from 1.7 to 1.10, so gentoo shouldn't be borked |
| 08:37.43 | goofey | learner: but my guess is it's a prob at my end sense nobody else has reported this |
| 08:37.46 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: the party games are fun with a bunch of friends |
| 08:37.55 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 08:37.56 | fiberchunks | goofey, I would go with that guess |
| 08:38.03 | Patlabor221 | we have been playing "metal arms" it's funny |
| 08:38.04 | goofey | games-action/bzflag-1.10 |
| 08:38.33 | fiberchunks | I'm not on my gentoo sys right now, otherwise I could tell you definitively if it's the ebuild -- but I doubt it |
| 08:38.33 | goofey | compiled from bzflag-1.10.20031209.tar.gz |
| 08:38.45 | learner | open up ssh access for a peek, and I'll have it fixed right proper and quickly |
| 08:38.58 | learner | that'd be 1.10.0 |
| 08:39.00 | goofey | fiberchunks: I doubt it too - but I did post in the gamers section of the gentoo forum |
| 08:39.16 | captain_proton | hrm, so with navi down, i don't have anything to watch |
| 08:39.26 | learner | we should really "announce" 1.10.2 now |
| 08:39.30 | goofey | well, thanks for the help all - I'm heading to bed |
| 08:39.32 | fiberchunks | goofey: did you try just simply downloading the source, and compiling in your homedir, versus doing the ebuild voodoo? |
| 08:39.41 | fiberchunks | ah, well, nm then |
| 08:39.46 | goofey | fiberchunks: no - but that's a good idea |
| 08:40.04 | goofey | I'll try that and update the forum post if it works |
| 08:40.05 | fiberchunks | try it -- if it works, it _may_ be the ebuild -- but again, I doubt it |
| 08:40.09 | fiberchunks | good luck |
| 08:40.16 | fiberchunks | happy new year |
| 08:40.27 | goofey | fiberchunks: I agree - but then again I did recompile the ebuild..... |
| 08:40.37 | goofey | thanks - happy new year to you folks too! |
| 08:40.44 | learner | asking a bunch of tipsy devs within hours of new years istn't the best way to get support help :) |
| 08:40.49 | goofey | lol |
| 08:40.56 | goofey | aww, it was fun anyhow |
| 08:40.58 | goofey | :) |
| 08:41.00 | learner | hehe |
| 08:41.01 | goofey | night all! |
| 08:41.04 | learner | cheers! |
| 08:41.10 | fiberchunks | heh, asking a tipsy non-dev isn't either (but then again I just interjected my opinion ;) ) |
| 08:41.10 | *** part/#bzflag goofey (~greg@adsl-68-121-163-121.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:41.13 | Patlabor221 | gack, I need a new name for this class, I am not making something called CHUD |
| 08:41.16 | captain_proton | should i be concerned that -both- of my roommates own the rocky horror special edition? |
| 08:41.46 | learner | heh, CHUD is the name of the performance profiling tools in the mac developer tools |
| 08:41.52 | fiberchunks | shouldn't that be a good thing ? |
| 08:42.04 | Patlabor221 | it's also a horible horible movie my first GF made me watch |
| 08:42.17 | Patlabor221 | she loved bad bad horror movie |
| 08:42.21 | CIA-1 | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (5 files in 3 dirs): too much eggnog |
| 08:42.24 | fiberchunks | heh, chud -- that's a classic B movie :) |
| 08:45.29 | fiberchunks | prob. not good -- ah well |
| 08:45.31 | Patlabor221 | furry |
| 08:45.35 | Patlabor221 | very furry |
| 08:45.36 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 08:45.45 | Patlabor221 | and perhaps a bit of boisenbery |
| 08:46.20 | fiberchunks | at least I'm not in jail -- that's a bonus |
| 08:46.27 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 08:46.43 | fiberchunks | you do anything hoorayrific tonight? |
| 08:47.34 | Patlabor221 | hooked up a simpel cloud renderer :) |
| 08:47.41 | Patlabor221 | but no, everone is gone |
| 08:47.44 | Patlabor221 | outa town |
| 08:48.03 | fiberchunks | heh -- a productive one (among many, I imagine) |
| 08:48.52 | Patlabor221 | well we shall see |
| 08:49.04 | fiberchunks | liked the sshot, btw |
| 08:49.06 | Patlabor221 | it's nice to have something being drawn instead of just back end code |
| 08:50.46 | MrApathyCream | wait till you see pat's gm missile geom |
| 08:50.51 | MrApathyCream | oh wait, that was nixed |
| 08:51.18 | Patlabor221 | what one, I have many missles, both guided and un-gided |
| 08:51.22 | Patlabor221 | ? |
| 08:51.50 | MrApathyCream | oh never mind. got my channels mixed up |
| 08:51.56 | Patlabor221 | rocketbox shoudl be fun :) |
| 08:52.35 | Patlabor221 | hows the arbitary run time texture managment class? so I can hook up the clouds. |
| 08:53.41 | MrApathyCream | waiting for 1.12 to start |
| 08:53.52 | Patlabor221 | I know |
| 08:54.08 | MrApathyCream | lemme check the schedule, hold on.... |
| 08:54.21 | MrApathyCream | hmmm, seemed to have misplaced it, sorry |
| 08:54.22 | Patlabor221 | this is the reason that we do maint. fixes in a branch at work, so new dev dosn't have to stall |
| 08:54.31 | MrApathyCream | what a concept |
| 08:54.36 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 08:54.44 | Patlabor221 | so sometime next december? |
| 08:55.06 | Patlabor221 | or is it june? |
| 08:55.13 | Patlabor221 | I forgot the schedule |
| 08:56.30 | MrApathyCream | 6/19 |
| 08:56.41 | Patlabor221 | july |
| 08:56.43 | Patlabor221 | ahh ok |
| 08:56.45 | learner | who? wha? actually have a maintenance branch?? blasphemy!! |
| 08:56.50 | MrApathyCream | welp time for bed |
| 08:56.52 | MrApathyCream | l8r |
| 08:56.55 | Patlabor221 | so that's for 1.10.4 |
| 08:57.02 | Patlabor221 | then 1.12 in december right? |
| 08:57.33 | Patlabor221 | your working on a maint branch now, at least as far as the users are concerned |
| 08:57.37 | Patlabor221 | but then it's not up to us |
| 08:57.40 | Patlabor221 | it's up to him |
| 08:57.46 | learner | yea.. just no dev path |
| 08:58.14 | Patlabor221 | I guess Tim sees patches as the dev path |
| 08:58.29 | learner | i think we're almost to the point of making the leap and forcing the branch |
| 08:58.29 | Patlabor221 | not the most easy/intutive way IMHO |
| 08:58.45 | Patlabor221 | well that would help a lot |
| 08:58.52 | learner | especially if the first thing addressed is karma.. tim would probably conceed |
| 08:59.22 | Patlabor221 | many things can be addresed |
| 08:59.26 | Patlabor221 | it's not a liniar thing |
| 08:59.32 | Patlabor221 | there are multiple people |
| 08:59.57 | learner | patches should really only be dev paths for truely experimental ideas -- we don't really have any of those at this point |
| 09:00.00 | Patlabor221 | bu I shall not go there |
| 09:00.05 | learner | s/patches/branches/ sheesh |
| 09:00.10 | Patlabor221 | heh |
| 09:00.43 | learner | i don't get the feeling tim has worked much with cvs branching |
| 09:00.50 | Patlabor221 | what about implementations that are not experimental, but so large they will take a lot of time and not to be included in the next maint release |
| 09:00.59 | Patlabor221 | like ripping stuff anew |
| 09:01.17 | learner | that's a hard call -- very risky |
| 09:01.32 | Patlabor221 | that is why you have a maint branch |
| 09:01.36 | Patlabor221 | that dosn't get those |
| 09:01.44 | Patlabor221 | and you do all that stuff in the mainline |
| 09:01.48 | Patlabor221 | so it is "dev" |
| 09:02.11 | Patlabor221 | maint releases shoudl really just be bug fixes |
| 09:02.15 | learner | it's usually best to figure out a migration path that includes the long implementation piecemeal |
| 09:02.33 | learner | yes they should |
| 09:02.38 | Patlabor221 | yes that is best, but somet things are just big jobs, to big for patches |
| 09:03.19 | Patlabor221 | if a patch hits more then 2-3 files I think it's out of the realm of a patch |
| 09:04.07 | learner | indeed.. patches are "usually" not necessary for internal dev unless people are left out of the loop of what's going on or the implementation is not agreed/understood |
| 09:04.16 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:04.31 | Patlabor221 | but the way it is now, it seems Tim want's all new submisions as patches |
| 09:04.35 | Patlabor221 | I find that odd |
| 09:05.57 | learner | probably most of that is because, in part, nobody is really working on what he wants worked on |
| 09:06.07 | learner | but then the reason for that is mostly his doing/fault |
| 09:06.08 | Patlabor221 | probably |
| 09:06.22 | Patlabor221 | and patches helps him with the veto power |
| 09:06.33 | Patlabor221 | I think he has a very clear goal in his mind of what he wants it to be |
| 09:06.42 | Patlabor221 | and he is afraid of others making it something else |
| 09:06.56 | captain_proton | it'd be nice if he shared this goal with us :P |
| 09:06.59 | Patlabor221 | just he seems to have a hard time expressing that vision in a way others can work from |
| 09:07.00 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:07.09 | fiberchunks | then he should perhaps state his goal (if one exists), and let others work on some forkage of it |
| 09:07.16 | Patlabor221 | he can't |
| 09:07.18 | learner | so he's doing what he can to discourage/steer people away from working on much more interesting things -- and yes, easier to leave a patch in sf, or reject someone accepting it, than to *cough* unroll commits from *cough* *cough* other devs |
| 09:07.24 | Patlabor221 | I have tried and tried for over a year now to get that |
| 09:07.30 | Patlabor221 | all I do is make him mad |
| 09:07.42 | learner | i think we have a start of one for him, listed as task items now |
| 09:07.49 | fiberchunks | ... if it doesn't interest them, that is |
| 09:07.58 | Patlabor221 | but I know he has at least an idea cus when you can get him to talk, he is yes/no about how it should work |
| 09:08.28 | Patlabor221 | so just a fany form of the wiki, and todo list that he's been using in the past |
| 09:08.35 | learner | he does have an idea -- i have a pretty good idea what he wants, I think |
| 09:08.36 | Patlabor221 | you'll get stuff like "implement karma" |
| 09:08.56 | learner | we don't necessarily agree on how to go about implementing it, or the priority of implementing it, though |
| 09:09.13 | Patlabor221 | then you should probably ask to take over maintinership, with him still as copyright holder, and executive input |
| 09:09.30 | Patlabor221 | I think he will give it to you |
| 09:09.41 | fiberchunks | 'executive input' == veto power ? |
| 09:09.44 | Patlabor221 | no |
| 09:09.47 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 09:09.50 | Patlabor221 | don't give him veto |
| 09:09.52 | learner | i don't think he's willing to make that step yet |
| 09:09.55 | Patlabor221 | he is too detail oriented |
| 09:10.17 | Patlabor221 | I think he is waiting for someone to ask, and that will make him decide if he is ready, or get off his butt and do something |
| 09:10.49 | learner | the last person he did that to is scrambling to recover half a terabyte :) |
| 09:10.57 | Patlabor221 | none has asked, I think everyone asumes that he will just give it up when he is ready, I don't think he really does anything without a poke |
| 09:11.04 | Patlabor221 | cap never asked |
| 09:11.09 | Patlabor221 | not for maintainership |
| 09:11.18 | Patlabor221 | he hasked to be SF admin to help out |
| 09:11.30 | Patlabor221 | I think he would set you up in a heartbeat with at least that |
| 09:11.45 | Patlabor221 | I has mentioned "when I turn it over to the next guy" |
| 09:12.06 | learner | s/I/he/? |
| 09:12.18 | Patlabor221 | the first I yeah :) |
| 09:12.20 | Patlabor221 | sorry |
| 09:12.24 | learner | heh |
| 09:12.46 | Patlabor221 | I don't think it would hurt if you broached the subject to him |
| 09:12.50 | Patlabor221 | just not in public |
| 09:12.56 | Patlabor221 | that may make him feel under pressure |
| 09:13.04 | Patlabor221 | and that people think he's not doing a good job |
| 09:13.08 | learner | yea, we have enough public confrontations |
| 09:13.12 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:13.25 | Patlabor221 | but I'm sure it would help him out a lot |
| 09:13.45 | Patlabor221 | he would retain the rights to pull you as maintainer if he didn't like the direction |
| 09:13.54 | Patlabor221 | like that would ever happen |
| 09:14.01 | learner | I'm sure a beer-thirty helmet would help him out a lot too =) |
| 09:14.16 | Patlabor221 | I don't think he drinks |
| 09:15.10 | fiberchunks | but if the majority of suggestions now warrants a bunch of 'nos', then there seems to be a potential problem for a future maintainer if Tim doesn't like that direction (if you get my drift) |
| 09:15.10 | Patlabor221 | aww comeon:) |
| 09:15.51 | fiberchunks | i.e. he'd pull a maintainer that would like to implement more of the things that aren't currently under a 'priority' level type of thing |
| 09:16.02 | Patlabor221 | then as holder of the copyright he could remove the name BZFlag from what this maintainer is working on, and it woudl be come a branch project |
| 09:16.06 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 09:16.14 | Patlabor221 | so if that was the majority |
| 09:16.20 | Patlabor221 | they would still work on it |
| 09:16.26 | Patlabor221 | it would jsut be called something else |
| 09:16.30 | Patlabor221 | using BZ as it's base |
| 09:16.34 | Patlabor221 | GPL allows for that |
| 09:16.38 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 09:16.55 | Patlabor221 | worst case, it would need to be split into a new SF project/site |
| 09:17.03 | Patlabor221 | but I don't think it would come to that |
| 09:17.19 | Patlabor221 | Tim himslef would not lose or be out anything |
| 09:18.00 | Patlabor221 | given that I think learners direction is to make things more modular so that it can support the ways Tim wants and the ways the majority wants |
| 09:18.17 | learner | or being implemented |
| 09:18.31 | Patlabor221 | like in the karma implemenation, or after it's done on new stuff |
| 09:18.47 | Patlabor221 | karma seems to be his baby |
| 09:18.58 | Patlabor221 | savior of the world and all that |
| 09:19.22 | learner | indeed -- and I think he's tunnel-visioned himself into seeing it implemented |
| 09:19.28 | learner | very short term |
| 09:19.42 | Patlabor221 | and even more so, into it's exact implemetation |
| 09:19.50 | Patlabor221 | he just dosn't have the time to write it up himself |
| 09:20.08 | learner | so everything slows |
| 09:20.15 | Patlabor221 | I'm gonna call my version "greif" :) |
| 09:20.25 | Patlabor221 | 1 way karma |
| 09:20.34 | fiberchunks | I don't think (as if it matters, but I'm here, so why not), that level of involvement has really anything to do with a particular item being implemented |
| 09:20.34 | learner | good grief :) |
| 09:20.39 | Patlabor221 | nope bad |
| 09:20.43 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 09:21.12 | Patlabor221 | Tim is very detail oriented, he's a dev not a manager |
| 09:21.31 | Patlabor221 | not a bad thing, just not what is needed for the changes that everyone else wants |
| 09:22.07 | learner | there's quite a number of people willing to and contributing, just 1) few that know the code well enough to tackle something like karma and 2) even fewer that know why just hacking it in to the current code base would be a "bad thing" |
| 09:22.36 | Patlabor221 | and even less that know how he wants karma done |
| 09:22.39 | fiberchunks | lack of exceptional documentation? |
| 09:22.53 | Patlabor221 | well it's a biger thing then just karma |
| 09:22.55 | Patlabor221 | it's logins |
| 09:22.56 | fiberchunks | for 1, that is |
| 09:22.58 | Patlabor221 | it's verificaton |
| 09:23.05 | Patlabor221 | it's data storage of all the users and karma |
| 09:23.23 | Patlabor221 | it's a core change to how each an every client/server connection happens |
| 09:23.34 | learner | right.. the system is much more complicated than "just karma" really -- even more so when you begin to consider the impact/requirements on the user experience and the user interface |
| 09:23.46 | Patlabor221 | and noone has done that |
| 09:23.57 | Patlabor221 | he says "email verification" |
| 09:24.04 | Patlabor221 | but that is a project in iself |
| 09:24.14 | learner | and the karma doc doesn't really address that -- tim has ideas, but they are all 'hack it in' directions, imo |
| 09:24.17 | Patlabor221 | who is the trusted party, what system sends the mails |
| 09:24.57 | Patlabor221 | and if you can't verify, or don't want to register, does that mean you can't play? or go in as a "guest" ? |
| 09:25.06 | learner | So, I'm still going to keep pushing on better docs, and better code organization which should ultimately help everyone, even getting karma done "better" |
| 09:25.09 | Patlabor221 | or only go on some servers? |
| 09:25.35 | Patlabor221 | seens tupone is the only one helping you |
| 09:25.37 | fiberchunks | I would say that going in as a 'guest level' or only on some servers is perfectly valid |
| 09:25.51 | Patlabor221 | well that's a big question |
| 09:25.59 | Patlabor221 | what if there are no servers online that let that happen |
| 09:26.05 | fiberchunks | with each server owner deciding what their server policy would be, just as it is now |
| 09:26.10 | Patlabor221 | how are any new players added |
| 09:26.18 | Patlabor221 | sucks from a "I just got this" perspective |
| 09:26.23 | fiberchunks | depends on the server owner's policy |
| 09:26.48 | Patlabor221 | if it's gonna be like that, there shoudl be a at least 1 "ofical" server that lets anyone play |
| 09:26.52 | fiberchunks | indeed -- perhaps a bzflag.org sponsored 'guest' server -- to get people used to it type of thing |
| 09:26.57 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 09:26.59 | Patlabor221 | aka "alpha zone" |
| 09:27.03 | learner | :) |
| 09:27.04 | fiberchunks | ? |
| 09:27.08 | learner | hehe |
| 09:27.13 | Patlabor221 | learner knows |
| 09:27.26 | Patlabor221 | bugs me is that many wont' look at how other games do this |
| 09:27.37 | Patlabor221 | it's not rocket science, it's been done before |
| 09:27.42 | learner | it'd be a newbie server, basically -- teaches the ropes and lets you "learn" |
| 09:27.48 | Patlabor221 | TIm even knows the guy who did this stuff before |
| 09:27.59 | sussudio | hm snow. |
| 09:28.28 | Patlabor221 | in the early days of subspace, you were suck in alpha zone servers till you had got a min score |
| 09:28.30 | fiberchunks | not on this continent |
| 09:28.39 | Patlabor221 | then you could register for the "real" servers |
| 09:28.49 | fiberchunks | not a bad idea, imho |
| 09:29.16 | fiberchunks | but exclusive, none the less - not really the current mode of bz operation, for sure |
| 09:29.18 | Patlabor221 | kept the CTF and leage servers populated with at least people who had some knowlege, and gave them time to register |
| 09:29.47 | Patlabor221 | alpha zone was allways just a bunch of 500 player Free for alls |
| 09:29.49 | learner | subspace had in-game global callsign registrations before you began playing, so it could track you right from the beginning |
| 09:29.55 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:30.02 | Patlabor221 | and that sounds like what Tim wants |
| 09:30.08 | Patlabor221 | it's what would be needed for karma |
| 09:30.16 | Patlabor221 | at least as he describes it |
| 09:30.17 | learner | i don't remember what ss did on private servers |
| 09:30.31 | Patlabor221 | you could tell a private server what "billing" server to use |
| 09:30.37 | learner | it would be needed for karma, unless you have some sort of anonymous class |
| 09:30.37 | fiberchunks | why? if there is a 'guest' server, I see no reason why you should need to register (unless I'm missing the 'tim' point entirely) |
| 09:30.39 | Patlabor221 | so you could use the global userdatabase |
| 09:30.46 | Patlabor221 | or make them register with your own |
| 09:31.12 | Patlabor221 | some servers would want to require resistration |
| 09:31.14 | Patlabor221 | for leauges |
| 09:31.15 | learner | ah |
| 09:31.19 | Patlabor221 | and better games |
| 09:31.31 | Patlabor221 | in SS you could never have a serious game in alpha zone |
| 09:31.41 | Patlabor221 | so you moved to Warzone |
| 09:31.50 | Patlabor221 | away from the kiddies |
| 09:31.53 | fiberchunks | sure, but does that apply to a guest server? if you're not a guest, then register, and be on your way to leaguedom |
| 09:31.57 | learner | Mmm.. |
| 09:32.11 | fiberchunks | or 'serious game' mode |
| 09:32.12 | Patlabor221 | what if you just pick up the game and want to see what it is |
| 09:32.25 | Patlabor221 | but don't want to go thru a registration/mail verification |
| 09:32.29 | Patlabor221 | just to see |
| 09:32.30 | fiberchunks | then be a guest. |
| 09:32.34 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 09:32.54 | Patlabor221 | but if you can be a guest on any server then what is the point of karma |
| 09:33.05 | Patlabor221 | These are all things Tim hasn't addresed |
| 09:33.13 | fiberchunks | if you like it, do your thing to make yourself 'legit' (at least, I would've, had there been an option when I first started playing bz) |
| 09:33.14 | Patlabor221 | does he want to make everyone who plays register? |
| 09:33.31 | fiberchunks | that doesn't make any sense though |
| 09:33.37 | Patlabor221 | I know |
| 09:33.52 | Patlabor221 | but all we ever hear is about registration |
| 09:33.57 | Patlabor221 | and the techincal parts of it |
| 09:34.01 | Patlabor221 | not end user experience |
| 09:34.06 | fiberchunks | I would suggest only allowing guests on 'guest level' servers -- not league play |
| 09:34.10 | fiberchunks | ah -- gotcha |
| 09:34.10 | Patlabor221 | that is what needs a good docking |
| 09:34.26 | Patlabor221 | I would make it up to the server |
| 09:34.34 | Patlabor221 | if soone wants a frag fest let them have it |
| 09:34.47 | Patlabor221 | cus with BZ bandwith 1 server ain't gonna cut it |
| 09:34.53 | fiberchunks | well sure, have it determined, in the end, by server owner policy |
| 09:34.59 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:35.14 | Patlabor221 | and the "ofical" leauges would of course require registration |
| 09:35.22 | fiberchunks | what levels the server owners accept |
| 09:35.25 | fiberchunks | sure |
| 09:35.28 | Patlabor221 | then onece you have that you could put the team rosters acutaly in the game |
| 09:35.34 | Patlabor221 | and make some mangamgemnt tools |
| 09:35.41 | Patlabor221 | in SS, the game knew what team you played for |
| 09:36.01 | Patlabor221 | and the game also knew who were refs |
| 09:36.08 | Patlabor221 | and they had aditional commands |
| 09:36.12 | Patlabor221 | locking rooms and such |
| 09:36.15 | Patlabor221 | allowing subs |
| 09:38.18 | Patlabor221 | heck it's a "dead" game, that is not even open source, but still distributed free, it has about 400 people plaing it right now, just on the standard 15 servers |
| 09:39.02 | Patlabor221 | the Trench Wars has 173 people in it right now |
| 09:39.54 | captain_proton | hmmdeedoo |
| 09:40.04 | Patlabor221 | and all this stuff with the rabbit mode, noone looks at the quake mods, they've done this allready |
| 09:40.49 | Patlabor221 | basing rabit on score seems a bit silly to me, when the score should be based on the rabbit |
| 09:40.49 | learner | captain_proton: any luck? or are you not touching navi? |
| 09:41.04 | Patlabor221 | cus rabbit is the point of the game, not the old BZ score mechanism |
| 09:41.12 | captain_proton | learner: i'm not touching it - waiting for scanline to show up to see if he has any ideas |
| 09:41.32 | fiberchunks | I thought rabbit was based on other things besides pure score -- is this not the case? |
| 09:41.39 | fiberchunks | like ratio |
| 09:41.49 | fiberchunks | s/ratio/kill ratio |
| 09:41.50 | Patlabor221 | it's a score formula |
| 09:42.05 | Patlabor221 | but it's all based on BZ kills, aka the score |
| 09:42.27 | Patlabor221 | as someone put it, basing it on that is a rich richer, poor poorer scenario |
| 09:42.41 | Patlabor221 | I'm used to the score showing how well you are doing in the the current game |
| 09:42.57 | Patlabor221 | so he who has been the wabit lognest would have high score |
| 09:43.03 | Patlabor221 | since that is the point of the thing |
| 09:43.58 | Patlabor221 | if you want to mase rabit on kill/death ratio, that's fine, just don't call it score, or use the old BZ score mechanism |
| 09:44.06 | Patlabor221 | as it's based on killing more is the point |
| 09:44.25 | fiberchunks | rather, hunting better? |
| 09:44.50 | Patlabor221 | dono, is the winner the person who kills the rabit the most? or the rabbit for staying alive the longest? |
| 09:45.02 | Patlabor221 | need to define the goal of that game |
| 09:45.24 | fiberchunks | I'll go with the first one |
| 09:45.26 | Patlabor221 | do you want to be the rabbit or don't you? |
| 09:45.34 | Patlabor221 | so you don't want to be the rabbit |
| 09:45.39 | fiberchunks | oh, good point |
| 09:45.41 | Patlabor221 | I see it from a runing standpoint |
| 09:45.47 | Patlabor221 | you want to be the rabit and not die |
| 09:45.56 | Patlabor221 | killing hunters is just a way to not die |
| 09:46.07 | Patlabor221 | depends what side you look at it from |
| 09:46.28 | Patlabor221 | like tag |
| 09:46.43 | Patlabor221 | well kinda reverse tag |
| 09:46.47 | Patlabor221 | you want to be it for the longest |
| 09:46.58 | fiberchunks | well, it would seem to me that the goal is to become the rabbit and then maintain it, so I would have to go with the second one since I've actually thought about it this time :) |
| 09:47.23 | Patlabor221 | heh |
| 09:47.30 | Patlabor221 | then score shoudl be based on Time |
| 09:47.39 | Patlabor221 | and he who kills the rabit becomes rabit |
| 09:47.42 | Patlabor221 | done and simple |
| 09:47.45 | Patlabor221 | no fuss no muss |
| 09:47.56 | fiberchunks | but how does one become the rabbit? should the rabbit be the one that shoots the previous rabbit? I see where you're going I think |
| 09:48.00 | fiberchunks | right |
| 09:48.03 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 09:48.13 | Patlabor221 | you kill to become the rabit |
| 09:48.20 | Patlabor221 | to acheve the goal of the game |
| 09:48.26 | Patlabor221 | then you kill to keep the wabit |
| 09:48.51 | Patlabor221 | well the way it is now it's kinda like smear the queer |
| 09:48.53 | learner | cept there are no "h"'s |
| 09:48.59 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:49.08 | Patlabor221 | that implys a "hold the ground" idea |
| 09:49.23 | Patlabor221 | what is there now is "get whitie" :) |
| 09:49.28 | Patlabor221 | or "Stick it to the man" |
| 09:49.32 | fiberchunks | which can already happen, depending on the map |
| 09:49.39 | fiberchunks | hold the ground, that is |
| 09:49.41 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:50.06 | Patlabor221 | in a KOTH game in most other games, he who stays in the "hill" part of the map alone the longest wins |
| 09:50.09 | Patlabor221 | often to a time limit |
| 09:50.15 | Patlabor221 | first one to 2 min or something |
| 09:50.48 | fiberchunks | perhaps a different dimension to the rabbit game could be that very thing - a timed match where he who holds rabbit longest wins |
| 09:51.15 | Patlabor221 | that is the common mehtod in other games |
| 09:51.27 | Patlabor221 | but they call it CTC |
| 09:51.34 | fiberchunks | CTC? |
| 09:51.40 | fiberchunks | Capture the Chicken? |
| 09:51.41 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 09:51.45 | Patlabor221 | http://www.planetquake.com/modcentral/reviews.htm |
| 09:51.48 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 09:52.05 | Patlabor221 | you get "it" |
| 09:52.11 | Patlabor221 | and try like hell not to die |
| 09:52.21 | Patlabor221 | in clasic CTC, the "it" can't shoot |
| 09:52.27 | fiberchunks | k, if a rabbit leaves a game - who gets 'it' -- the one who last shot the rabbit? or the one who has shot the rabbit most? |
| 09:52.31 | Patlabor221 | and the "not it's" can't hurt each other |
| 09:52.39 | Patlabor221 | the Chicken is an object |
| 09:52.44 | Patlabor221 | that is dropped |
| 09:52.46 | Patlabor221 | like a flag |
| 09:52.50 | Patlabor221 | you have to cary it |
| 09:52.57 | Patlabor221 | so if they leave, it's droped |
| 09:53.00 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 09:53.03 | Patlabor221 | like a fumble |
| 09:53.06 | Patlabor221 | can lead to lots of fun |
| 09:53.50 | Patlabor221 | if just huning is the goal of rabbit, then the rabit should just be random |
| 09:53.56 | Patlabor221 | cus noone would want to be the rabbit |
| 09:54.12 | Patlabor221 | then it makes it fair for all |
| 09:55.14 | Patlabor221 | in the current method, 2 good players with high leads can allways jsut flip flop rabbit |
| 09:55.38 | Patlabor221 | to me that says that being the rabit is the point |
| 09:56.04 | Patlabor221 | and it has to suck to work your ass off to hunt that rabbit then not be rewarded with anything other then seeing somone else get to be it |
| 09:56.55 | fiberchunks | imho, not if you can't fight back as rabbit (as you implied earlier) |
| 09:57.01 | fiberchunks | about other games, that is |
| 09:57.27 | Patlabor221 | well but if you get points for time, as in those other games, you could win it |
| 09:57.37 | Patlabor221 | by just running like HELL :) |
| 09:57.48 | fiberchunks | ah, sure - again, it all depends on your perspective, as you stated earlier :) |
| 09:57.50 | Patlabor221 | the quesion is "how do you win" |
| 09:57.52 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 09:58.05 | captain_proton | hmm, someone needs to go through and do copyrights |
| 09:58.07 | Patlabor221 | if there was a rabbit leauge, how would you figure out who wins |
| 09:58.09 | captain_proton | i guess tim has a scripty for that |
| 09:58.15 | Patlabor221 | somone has a script |
| 09:58.39 | fiberchunks | imho, he with the most accumulated 'rabbit time' wins |
| 09:58.41 | Patlabor221 | once you figure out who would win, then you make scoring and rabit bestowment fit that |
| 09:58.51 | Patlabor221 | then he who kills the rabbit is rabbit |
| 09:58.58 | Patlabor221 | it's that simple |
| 09:59.21 | Patlabor221 | I would agree that that is a good way to go |
| 09:59.35 | Patlabor221 | if somone wanted to do a "hunter" version, then they could score difrent |
| 09:59.53 | Patlabor221 | it's like the current version is trying to combine both, and you can't they are mutualy exclusive |
| 10:00.26 | fiberchunks | the elmer fudd and bugs bunny versions |
| 10:00.30 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 10:01.40 | captain_proton | mmm, gotta love sword battle movies |
| 10:01.43 | captain_proton | *squelch* |
| 10:02.05 | Patlabor221 | I heard that was a good movie |
| 10:02.47 | captain_proton | pretty good for the genre, i suppose |
| 10:03.53 | Patlabor221 | man do I love me some anisotropic filtering |
| 10:04.42 | Patlabor221 | ewww 2x dosn't look so hot |
| 10:07.17 | Patlabor221 | well I'm off to bed, happy new year everyone |
| 10:07.23 | Patlabor221 | sorry for ranting again |
| 10:07.41 | learner | happy new year @Patlabor221! |
| 10:07.53 | learner | oops, late |
| 10:07.57 | fiberchunks | gah -- me too |
| 10:07.59 | fiberchunks | :\ |
| 11:09.47 | captain_proton | ya know |
| 11:09.53 | captain_proton | i hate computers |
| 11:10.11 | sussudio | it's mutual, probably |
| 11:10.33 | captain_proton | oh, i'm sure |
| 11:10.46 | captain_proton | and mdadm is leading the fight |
| 11:11.03 | sussudio | it's at moments like bios updates when it manifests..... |
| 11:11.09 | fiberchunks | navi haunting your dreams? |
| 11:11.13 | sussudio | 98%, 99%..... crash |
| 11:11.20 | captain_proton | not bios updates, raid management |
| 11:11.33 | captain_proton | this disk is ok, but the other disks think it isn't |
| 11:11.41 | captain_proton | and afaik, there's no way to reverse that situation |
| 11:11.56 | captain_proton | (i may end up writing something that lets me edit the raid superblocks manually =/) |
| 11:12.39 | sussudio | ~info raidtools |
| 11:13.59 | learner | ahh.. reliance on faulty raid .. tastes like chicken |
| 11:15.22 | captain_proton | its not really faulty raid, just irritating maintenance tools |
| 11:16.17 | captain_proton | i think the biggest problem is that they try to make them too user friendly, and in the process, make them not do quite what they're supposed to |
| 11:17.12 | captain_proton | i think what happened was a momentary kernel bug caused one of the drives to appear hotswapped, so mdadm decided to mark it as removed |
| 11:17.18 | captain_proton | which threw a wrench into my recovery plans |
| 11:20.47 | captain_proton | oh well |
| 11:20.51 | captain_proton | the internet is routing, CIA is up |
| 11:21.20 | captain_proton | the contents can be replaced, if necessary |
| 11:21.55 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 11:42.35 | *** join/#bzflag dabomb (~dabomb@215-bem-10.acn.waw.pl) |
| 12:19.41 | *** join/#bzflag strayer (~s-t-r-a-y@p50910779.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:19.54 | dabomb | aloha strayer |
| 12:20.06 | strayer | hiho :) |
| 12:20.11 | dabomb | happy new year! |
| 12:20.16 | dabomb | and stuff :) |
| 12:20.20 | strayer | a prosperous new year...! |
| 12:20.25 | strayer | ;o) |
| 12:20.29 | dabomb | yeah |
| 12:20.59 | dabomb | howzie man? hangover has came, or is it comming? :) |
| 12:21.25 | strayer | I never get a hangover |
| 12:21.42 | strayer | dunno why...but it's very helpful :) |
| 12:21.45 | dabomb | try Absint and say it again ;) |
| 12:21.59 | strayer | I tried absinth.... |
| 12:22.05 | dabomb | sure thing |
| 12:22.17 | dabomb | heh. tough guy you are |
| 12:22.48 | strayer | well...simple people like me R always lucky... |
| 12:22.58 | dabomb | :) |
| 12:23.00 | strayer | btw...how do U feel? |
| 12:23.12 | dabomb | pretty fine, ty |
| 12:23.28 | dabomb | hangover is gone now |
| 12:23.53 | strayer | so fast?...most people have it for hours I heared |
| 12:24.22 | dabomb | eh. i drunk 2 beers today. it kills hangover in most cases :) |
| 12:25.08 | strayer | nice solution...hehe |
| 12:25.35 | Chestal | here |
| 12:26.20 | dabomb | ok |
| 12:27.00 | dabomb | got some problems with GL library, can you help me a bit with it? |
| 12:27.00 | dabomb | it disallows me to compile bzflag properly |
| 12:27.37 | Chestal | which operating system? what's the error? |
| 12:28.15 | dabomb | linux (which i am newibe to). when i do ie gcc somefile.c -GL it says there is not GL found |
| 12:28.42 | Chestal | I guess you mean -lGL |
| 12:29.00 | dabomb | dunno how can i tell compiler that i have GL installed - i can find libGL.so, libGL.a in /usr/lib directory |
| 12:29.05 | dabomb | yeah |
| 12:29.06 | Chestal | try locate libGL.so |
| 12:29.10 | dabomb | i got it |
| 12:29.17 | Chestal | which distribution is it? |
| 12:29.22 | dabomb | RH9 |
| 12:30.38 | Chestal | so you get an error while linking? |
| 12:30.46 | Chestal | or doesn't it find the include file GL.h? |
| 12:30.53 | Chestal | GL/gl.h that is |
| 12:31.17 | dabomb | yeah. <quote> [root@proteus root]# gcc t2.c -lGL |
| 12:31.17 | dabomb | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL |
| 12:31.17 | dabomb | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 12:31.27 | dabomb | </quote> |
| 12:31.40 | Chestal | hmm, unusual |
| 12:31.47 | Chestal | try 'file /usr/lib/libGL.so' |
| 12:32.07 | Chestal | ah |
| 12:32.14 | dabomb | i messed up in rpms a bit, but all files are in place i think |
| 12:32.28 | Chestal | try the file command please |
| 12:33.02 | dabomb | yeah. thats the problem: broken symbolic link .... |
| 12:33.23 | dabomb | ty, will try to locate proper library file |
| 12:33.48 | Chestal | normally it woudl point to a specific libGL.so version file |
| 12:33.52 | Chestal | get Debian ;-) |
| 12:34.04 | Chestal | I am not familiar with RH |
| 12:34.27 | dabomb | eh. will consider it :) |
| 12:37.48 | dabomb | eh. making went little further but still got bunch of errors |
| 12:38.47 | Chestal | what's the first one? |
| 12:38.56 | dabomb | BackgroundRenderer.o(.text+0x362): In function `BackgroundRenderer::BackgroundRenderer[not-in-charge](SceneRenderer const&)': |
| 12:38.56 | dabomb | : undefined reference to `OpenGLGStateBuilder::setBlending(unsigned, unsigned)' |
| 12:39.06 | dabomb | thats it |
| 12:39.07 | Chestal | hmm |
| 12:39.28 | Chestal | g++ -v |
| 12:40.05 | dabomb | gcc version 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5) |
| 12:40.20 | Chestal | should work |
| 12:41.29 | Chestal | this is when linking bzflag? |
| 12:41.38 | dabomb | when making all |
| 12:41.52 | dabomb | first g++ command |
| 12:42.24 | Chestal | with a couple -l at the end? |
| 12:42.45 | dabomb | yeah, -lGL, -lGLU, -lthread and such |
| 12:43.01 | Chestal | and it should contain ../ogl/libGLKit.a |
| 12:43.23 | dabomb | could it be because of old GL library? |
| 12:43.56 | Chestal | did you by chance change the GL library after you compiled part of it, then continued? |
| 12:44.30 | Chestal | you could try 'nm src/ogl/libGLKit.a | grep setBlen' |
| 12:44.41 | dabomb | it could it be. i've just started making from begining |
| 12:45.00 | dabomb | k |
| 12:45.28 | Chestal | make clean; make? ok, try that first |
| 12:50.31 | dabomb | previous instruction passed but got another error... |
| 12:50.44 | dabomb | ../platform/libPlatform.a(LinuxDisplay.o)(.text+0x2d5): In function `LinuxDisplayMode::init(XDisplay*, int&, int&)': |
| 12:50.44 | dabomb | : undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryExtension' |
| 12:51.34 | Chestal | hmm |
| 12:52.35 | Chestal | does it have -lXxf86vm ? |
| 12:53.22 | dabomb | only these: -lGLU -lGL -lGL -lGLU -lpthread -lm |
| 12:53.36 | Chestal | no -lX at all? |
| 12:53.44 | Chestal | this is when linking bzflag? |
| 12:53.50 | Chestal | (-o bzflag)? |
| 12:54.11 | dabomb | dunno so i will put whole command |
| 12:54.14 | dabomb | g++ -O2 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fexpensive-optimizations -fno-exceptions -o bzflag ../date/buildDate.o MainWindow.o ControlPanel.o World.o SceneBuilder.o SceneRenderer.o BackgroundRenderer.o CommandsStandard.o RadarRenderer.o HUDRenderer.o HUDui.o ShotPath.o ShotStrategy.o Region.o Player.o playing.o LocalPlayer.o RemotePlayer.o WorldPlayer.o RobotPlayer.o ServerLink.o callbacks.o daylight.o texture.o sound.o bzflag.o HUDDialog.o me |
| 12:54.14 | dabomb | nus.o ServerListCache.o ActionBinding.o TextureManager.o ../net/libNet.a ../common/libCommon.a ../obstacle/libObstacle.a ../platform/libPlatform.a ../ogl/libGLKit.a ../scene/libSceneDB.a ../geometry/libGeometry.a ../mediafile/libMediaFile.a ../zlib/libz.a -lGLU -lGL -lGL -lGLU -lpthread -lm |
| 12:54.19 | Chestal | hmm |
| 12:54.26 | Chestal | straneg that it doesn't link with the X lib |
| 12:54.30 | dabomb | yeah -o bzflag |
| 12:55.08 | Chestal | can you load src/bzflag/Makefile into an editor? |
| 12:55.13 | dabomb | yeah |
| 12:55.15 | Chestal | search for 'GLIBS =' |
| 12:55.48 | dabomb | got it |
| 12:56.01 | dabomb | GLIBS = -lGLU -lGL -lGL -lGLU -lpthread |
| 12:56.04 | Chestal | GLIBS = -lGLU -lGL -lXi -lXxf86vm -lXext -lSM -lICE -lX11 for me |
| 12:56.16 | dabomb | hmmm |
| 12:56.18 | Chestal | this file gets autogenerated by the config system |
| 12:56.21 | Chestal | which I am not very familiar with |
| 12:56.36 | Chestal | we can change it manually now, someone else might be able to find a better solution |
| 12:56.50 | Chestal | a few lines below should be LDFLAGS = |
| 12:57.25 | dabomb | LDFLAGS = |
| 12:57.34 | Chestal | LDFLAGS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib |
| 12:57.42 | Chestal | of course, it migh tbe different in RH |
| 12:57.43 | dabomb | should i put it there? |
| 12:57.51 | Chestal | but try to use both my lines |
| 12:57.56 | dabomb | ok |
| 12:58.04 | Chestal | liek I said, to really fix it, one woudl have to look at the configure stuff |
| 12:59.57 | dabomb | it works now. thanks Chestal :) |
| 13:00.50 | dabomb | making ended without errors |
| 13:06.55 | Chestal | only next time, it will run automake again, your changes wil be lost I think |
| 13:13.32 | dabomb | i had to screw up something before. i did ./configure again and GLIBS was set properly. making compleded without errors also |
| 13:14.34 | dabomb | i noticed one more thing when lauching bzflag now: |
| 13:14.44 | dabomb | Xlib: extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on display ":0.0". |
| 13:14.44 | dabomb | loading fixedbr |
| 13:15.11 | dabomb | i guess thats not good, but bzflag seems to work ok |
| 13:15.16 | Chestal | hmm |
| 13:15.24 | Chestal | you have hardware rendering? |
| 13:15.40 | dabomb | i guess so. GF2MX |
| 13:15.53 | dabomb | dunno if it is enabled under X |
| 13:15.56 | Chestal | well, when it looks ok and is fast enough... |
| 13:16.01 | Chestal | you can try glxinfo |
| 13:16.17 | Chestal | one of the first lones shoudl say: direct rendering: Yes |
| 13:16.21 | Chestal | lines, even |
| 13:16.40 | dabomb | yeah. there is smth like that |
| 13:16.50 | dabomb | direct rendering: Yes |
| 13:17.12 | Chestal | that's good |
| 13:17.23 | Chestal | not sure why you get that other message |
| 13:17.47 | dabomb | me neither :) |
| 13:19.41 | dabomb | oh man, 40fps only |
| 13:20.32 | dabomb | when i installed it from rpm i got over 150fps |
| 13:21.25 | dabomb | i will try to install most recent mesa libraries maybe |
| 13:25.39 | CIA-1 | 03chestal * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): more info on 'my' bugs |
| 13:42.04 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@pD955B396.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:42.08 | tapo | hi |
| 13:44.00 | tapo | bzflag/doc/man/bzfs.xml ist not an xml file. are the plans to convert it to xml to usse it for man pages aswell as for html output? |
| 13:44.06 | tapo | the=there. |
| 13:55.31 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 14:27.03 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1_ (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 14:59.17 | Chestal | ~bzflist |
| 15:05.14 | tapo | what means (47)"? |
| 15:07.15 | tapo | Chestal: looks like the man pages in CVS are plain man pages. I don't find anything using the xml files to generate html... looks like work in progress. |
| 15:12.29 | tapo | Chetal: come on, bzflag.hashmark.net :) |
| 15:12.45 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1___ (~CIA-1__@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 15:23.39 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman_laptop (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-72-67.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 15:24.25 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (frank@p508210F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:56.46 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (~Suss@81.68.131.0) |
| 16:02.07 | creeperz | ~bzfquery 24.220.73.179 |
| 16:02.34 | creeperz | schweet |
| 16:05.46 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p50929D80.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:35.35 | *** join/#bzflag KRlap (~KRlap@cae31-210-009.sc.rr.com) |
| 16:35.45 | KRlap | happy new year all |
| 16:38.02 | *** join/#bzflag Oman (~18f78b5b@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 16:38.16 | Oman | hi all |
| 16:38.29 | Oman | Anybody Home |
| 16:38.31 | Oman | ? |
| 16:39.22 | Oman | *Echo* *Echo* *Echo* *Echo* *Echo* *Echo* |
| 16:40.02 | Oman | Hello. |
| 16:40.13 | tapo | ? |
| 16:40.17 | Oman | hi |
| 16:41.39 | tapo | played too much.. |
| 16:42.08 | sussudio | Oman: why do you feel the need to poll bzflag servers? |
| 16:43.20 | Oman | what? |
| 16:43.30 | sussudio | no, not "what". |
| 16:43.46 | Oman | What do you mean? |
| 16:44.15 | sussudio | Oman: you have some kind of script running that polls bzflag servers very frequently. |
| 16:44.50 | Oman | I don't get what you mean. |
| 16:45.19 | Oman | Don't blame me but I don't get what you mean. |
| 16:46.03 | sussudio | you are on server24.greatnet.de. server24.greatnet.de polls servers for some unknown reason. |
| 16:46.44 | Oman | WHAT THE HECK IS SEVER24 |
| 16:48.00 | Oman | Sussudio don't you see that I don't understand what you are Talking about I am younger that you think. |
| 16:48.33 | Oman | Brb phone |
| 16:48.45 | sussudio | ok whatever. i've blocked you on my firewall anyway. |
| 16:49.26 | Oman | Ok thats fine |
| 16:49.33 | Oman | Back. |
| 16:51.35 | Oman | sussudio stop Bagering people |
| 16:55.06 | *** part/#bzflag Oman (~18f78b5b@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 17:00.45 | learner | tapo: yes |
| 17:12.26 | tapo | :) |
| 17:16.28 | learner | any help is welcome too :) |
| 17:16.53 | tapo | ok - how do you convert the xml files to html(?)? which tools? |
| 17:17.07 | tapo | there's this xls file... |
| 17:17.37 | learner | which OS? |
| 17:18.12 | tapo | linux. is there another? :-). I've read http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/manpages.html some hours ago.... |
| 17:18.26 | learner | that xls file is a work in progress as well, don't think it's fully functional |
| 17:20.06 | tapo | I've never used docbook and xsl(t) in a real worl project. I think xml projects tend to be blown up... But I am curious on the ohter hand. |
| 17:20.42 | learner | they are usually, but I have used rather successfully in a "real world project" as has MAC, I believe |
| 17:21.05 | learner | for starters, though, it's going to be a mostly manual process as the tools are put in place |
| 17:23.32 | learner | best place to start is tldp's author guide: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/LDP-Author-Guide/index.html |
| 17:24.48 | tapo | I'll read -- after cooking a bit. I am hungry... |
| 17:28.23 | tapo | I do my personal html docs in a "language" I "invented", see "http://www.taponet.de/multiboot/index.pml" and "http://www.taponet.de/multiboot/". It is plain text without annoying open and close tags... easy typing... |
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| 17:28.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:31.51 | tapo | learner: which OS / tools do you use to process the xml files? |
| 17:38.51 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-102-114.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
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| 18:04.01 | learner | tapo: for simple validation, I just use a browser. for more complicated stuff, I use a variety of tools -- jade for example, or apache's xml-fo |
| 18:04.05 | learner | hi tupone |
| 18:04.51 | Tupone | hi learner |
| 18:08.50 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~keir@adsl-64-167-79-246.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 18:13.22 | CIA-1____ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): saveworld doesn't save world weapons |
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| 18:24.49 | TheDarkSamurai | hi there |
| 18:25.01 | TheDarkSamurai | is noodleman playing or not |
| 18:25.33 | learner | hi |
| 18:27.03 | TheDarkSamurai | hi |
| 18:27.10 | *** part/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4007@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 18:27.35 | learner | bye |
| 18:28.05 | Patlabor221 | he is an odd one |
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| 19:06.22 | *** join/#bzflag TheDarkSamurai (~3eff4007@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 19:07.22 | TheDarkSamurai | hi all |
| 19:07.28 | learner | hi again |
| 19:08.03 | TheDarkSamurai | no one else on? |
| 19:08.28 | learner | ~bzflist |
| 19:08.39 | learner | lots of people on ;) |
| 19:09.10 | TheDarkSamurai | i mean on here |
| 19:09.59 | learner | just me and you sweetheart |
| 19:10.20 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak_ (~DTRemenak@host-226-42.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 19:10.47 | TheDarkSamurai | yikes!! |
| 19:10.54 | learner | hehe |
| 19:11.04 | TheDarkSamurai | *The Dark Samurai jump 20 foot up in the air* |
| 19:11.41 | TheDarkSamurai | i ain't gay |
| 19:12.31 | TheDarkSamurai | are you? |
| 19:12.39 | learner | I'm a pretty happy fellow, but i prefer the company of ladies |
| 19:13.02 | TheDarkSamurai | good hope so |
| 19:13.18 | learner | phobic? |
| 19:13.38 | TheDarkSamurai | of whats? |
| 19:13.56 | learner | never mind ;) |
| 19:14.01 | TheDarkSamurai | lol |
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| 19:32.30 | Patlabor221 | I think he answered yes to your last question |
| 19:32.43 | learner | no kidding |
| 19:33.03 | Patlabor221 | for all he knows, you could be a lady |
| 19:33.11 | Patlabor221 | that prefers the compay of ladies |
| 19:33.18 | learner | for all I know, he could be a lady :) |
| 19:33.52 | DTRemenak | or a dog |
| 19:33.57 | learner | woof |
| 19:34.04 | learner | meow |
| 19:34.07 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 19:34.18 | Patlabor221 | or some sort of sentient pie |
| 19:34.31 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 19:34.32 | DTRemenak | or an alien...oooooo |
| 19:36.03 | learner | I am Jack's wasted life |
| 19:36.33 | learner | I am Jack's complete lack of surprise |
| 19:38.24 | Patlabor221 | yay, skybox is all better now :) |
| 19:39.29 | DTRemenak | all better how? |
| 19:41.09 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 19:41.12 | Patlabor221 | it was bad |
| 19:41.14 | Patlabor221 | it's not bad |
| 19:41.33 | DTRemenak | that was implied: how was it bad? |
| 19:41.34 | Chestal | yay, 171MB of Debian update |
| 19:41.46 | Patlabor221 | my clouds still need work |
| 19:42.13 | Patlabor221 | ohh the top of the skybox was rotated 90 out of sync from all the other images |
| 19:42.18 | Patlabor221 | so there was a steam |
| 19:42.24 | DTRemenak | ah, that would be bad |
| 19:42.25 | Patlabor221 | seam |
| 19:42.40 | DTRemenak | I know what you meen ;) |
| 19:44.19 | Patlabor221 | now it looks, purdy |
| 19:44.20 | Patlabor221 | http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/temp/sky.png |
| 19:45.11 | DTRemenak | why, yes indeed...clouds static or dynamic? |
| 19:47.31 | Patlabor221 | they move |
| 19:47.48 | Patlabor221 | and are random in size speed a postion, within a range |
| 19:47.55 | Patlabor221 | tho they need some work |
| 19:47.56 | learner | do they wisp and twirl? |
| 19:48.01 | learner | :) |
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| 19:48.08 | david_v | heh |
| 19:48.18 | Patlabor221 | sadly no |
| 19:48.41 | Patlabor221 | but you could derive off your own cloud renderer that would do that if you wanted |
| 19:48.43 | learner | if we only had enough cpu to put random particle simulatious everywhere |
| 19:48.45 | Patlabor221 | and just plug it in |
| 19:49.04 | Patlabor221 | scanline has some kick ass clouds in his python thing |
| 19:49.33 | Patlabor221 | and if you have shaders you don't need to use CPU for those particle system thigns :) |
| 19:50.43 | Patlabor221 | tho I don't know if Tim would go for a system that is not based on the realtime night/day thing |
| 19:50.47 | learner | we can always use more particle systems :) |
| 19:51.13 | Patlabor221 | I pesonaly would like to see skys defined by the map |
| 19:51.24 | learner | indeed |
| 19:51.25 | DTRemenak | ooh |
| 19:51.33 | learner | personally like to see the entire world be defined |
| 19:52.03 | Patlabor221 | yes |
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| 19:52.21 | Patlabor221 | sky, clouds, et all. |
| 19:52.34 | Patlabor221 | fog and rain and all that too |
| 19:52.42 | DTRemenak | mmmm |
| 19:52.46 | sussudio | hey i figured out why that motherboard wasn't working....... |
| 19:53.00 | Patlabor221 | banana in the tailpipe? :) |
| 19:53.10 | sussudio | no.... bios was corrupted |
| 19:53.27 | sussudio | i have 2 identical boards so i hotswapped the bios |
| 19:53.28 | Patlabor221 | fun |
| 19:53.47 | Chestal | how does the bz time / position system work? bz gets UTC time from system, then uses longitude to calculate local time of day`? |
| 19:54.10 | DTRemenak | something like that |
| 19:54.16 | Patlabor221 | and phase of the moon |
| 19:54.25 | DTRemenak | then uses lat+long+time to find out the moon/sun positions |
| 19:54.31 | sussudio | just finished cleaning my main pc...... it had about 6 months worth of dust buildup. it's on 24/7. |
| 19:55.23 | Chestal | and the stars, too |
| 19:55.25 | Patlabor221 | have fun everyone |
| 19:55.33 | DTRemenak | you too :) |
| 19:55.37 | Chestal | never really tried to check if the stars are correct, though. Are there planets, too? |
| 19:55.44 | Patlabor221 | so we can't play on the moon :) |
| 19:55.53 | DTRemenak | hey, there's an idea... |
| 19:56.08 | DTRemenak | Interplanetary BZ |
| 19:56.28 | Chestal | how about "tank manager"? ;-) |
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| 19:59.14 | DTRemenak | no planets, just stars |
| 19:59.36 | DTRemenak | planets would have different movement properties |
| 20:00.19 | DTRemenak | 'twould be interesting...retrograde motion...as if anyone would notice :P |
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| 20:02.25 | *** join/#bzflag RuFiToS (~rufitos@81.193.18.133) |
| 20:02.34 | RuFiToS | hi |
| 20:08.56 | learner | there has to be some planetary gpl project that we could use logic from to display real stars correctly :) |
| 20:08.57 | Quol | happy new year all |
| 20:09.06 | learner | happy Q year |
| 20:09.12 | Quol | n:) |
| 20:09.21 | Quol | there I go with the N syndrome |
| 20:10.15 | sussudio | ,pig |
| 20:11.45 | DTRemenak | learner: http://sourceforge.net/projects/stellarium/ |
| 20:13.10 | DTRemenak | or http://sourceforge.net/projects/opengalaxy/ |
| 20:13.39 | sussudio | irl://lookoutthewindowwhenitsdark/ |
| 20:14.13 | DTRemenak | "that we could use logic from..." no code out the window |
| 20:14.28 | learner | stellarium looks like it has real promise |
| 20:14.41 | Quol | stellarium looks cool |
| 20:14.43 | learner | realtime ogl -- could be a rather simple marriage |
| 20:14.46 | DTRemenak | ya, it's GL too |
| 20:15.06 | learner | actually has some atmospheric rendering abilities too..hmm |
| 20:15.15 | DTRemenak | opengalaxy is also GPL and OGL but seems rather dead |
| 20:15.34 | DTRemenak | and lacks some of the cooler features, like atmos. |
| 20:16.38 | Chestal | flags could have special powers depending on the constellation of the planets ;-) |
| 20:16.57 | Chestal | so, maybe every 73 years or so you could teleport with PZ |
| 20:17.00 | DTRemenak | heh, it uses SDL |
| 20:18.04 | Chestal | bz should at least do sun and moon eclipses |
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| 20:18.35 | DTRemenak | wow, looks like it could replace the whole skybox cept for clouds ;) |
| 20:18.49 | Blue_Beard | Arrrrr! |
| 20:19.29 | DTRemenak | well, I'm off...see y'all later |
| 20:19.44 | Chestal | bye DTR |
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| 20:34.39 | Blue_Beard | ;-) |
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| 21:05.07 | Chestal | hi Tupone |
| 21:05.12 | Tupone | hi |
| 21:05.51 | Tupone | I was asking about the tank bits on the ground when having high gravity |
| 21:06.04 | Tupone | I think I've fixed, but need confirmation |
| 21:06.36 | Chestal | ah, we can try |
| 21:06.58 | Chestal | my test server on 59155 |
| 21:07.03 | Tupone | ok |
| 21:07.22 | Chestal | just a moment |
| 21:09.55 | Chestal | my computer feels like compiling everything all over |
| 21:10.58 | Tupone | I'll wait |
| 21:11.16 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@pD955BF26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:12.04 | tapo | dig ducati.bzflag.org -> not found |
| 21:12.23 | tapo | ah ok |
| 21:13.49 | Tupone | One thing I'll need to not minimize so much the explosion speed, is the max height of the world. But I'm looking for it in the client, without finding |
| 21:13.52 | tapo | so thats a world weapon. |
| 21:15.03 | Chestal | ok, ready now |
| 21:26.15 | Chestal | tapo: have you trid to change resolution during game? |
| 21:26.44 | tapo | no, didn't know I should |
| 21:26.50 | Tupone | I did. Have a GE force 2. And the floor is all messed up |
| 21:27.05 | Chestal | probably the same as the windows alt-tab bug |
| 21:27.13 | Chestal | might even be related to my shininess bug |
| 21:28.09 | Tupone | Now that I know how to did, there is a little chance I can fix. Very little, epsilon, but > 0. |
| 21:28.43 | Tupone | bye for now |
| 21:34.54 | tapo | learner: I think managing the docs with doctools / xml adds more problems than necessary. My opinion. A simple structured text format should do the job much better -- you would have the focus on simple text, easy to change. And you would have more players able to help optimizing the docs. |
| 21:49.11 | learner | they are going to be more than docs for documentation |
| 21:50.09 | Chestal | apropos XML, I think MAC suggested to use xerces. Xerces is _huge_, it's far bigger than all of bzflag |
| 21:50.55 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@pD955BF26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:52.12 | learner | it will eventually just be provided/editable through an interface so the documenters will need to know nothing about xml/docbook if they don't want to |
| 21:52.38 | Pimpinella | anyone knows what does mean "Not loading .note.GNU-stack" in /var/log/XFree86.0.log |
| 21:53.13 | Pimpinella | while loading fonts |
| 21:53.20 | Pimpinella | ? |
| 21:53.30 | learner | yet what is stored in cvs is ultimately docbook |
| 21:54.34 | learner | I haven't looked at how large the embedded aspect of xerces is -- we don't need a full-fledged sgml or even xml processor -- just something to read the xml into data objects |
| 21:55.42 | Chestal | learner: take the stations |
| 21:55.47 | learner | :) |
| 21:55.54 | learner | i love the stations |
| 21:57.40 | Pimpinella | will X11 take gzipped fonts or do they have to be uncompressed? |
| 21:58.08 | learner | dunno |
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| 22:19.07 | tapo | learner: ok |
| 22:19.20 | tapo | learner: have fun and win. don't shoot :-) |
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| 23:10.51 | Pimpinella | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:11.02 | Pimpinella | oops |
| 23:11.39 | Pimpinella | time for a new passwd :( |
| 23:16.38 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-126-24.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 23:20.09 | creeperz | :-) |
| 23:20.49 | creeperz | most irc clients have an on-connect do this command option |
| 23:20.57 | creeperz | i auto-id and join 2 channels |
| 23:21.01 | Pimpinella | just configured it |
| 23:21.16 | creeperz | ah |
| 23:21.20 | Pimpinella | too lazy till now |
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| 23:59.09 | Tupone | Chestal: your test server is still up? Need for test |
| 23:59.25 | Chestal | should be |
| 23:59.27 | Tupone | I forgot the port |
| 23:59.46 | Chestal | 59155 |
