| 00:01.13 | *** join/#bzflag evil_enchilada (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 00:02.38 | learner | pain in the butt to set the hard drive settings every time the beast is power cycled |
| 00:02.51 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 00:04.13 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 00:05.21 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 00:11.47 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~root@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 00:25.35 | Hornet | ~d |
| 00:36.16 | Chestal | good night |
| 00:39.20 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-173-105-16.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 00:39.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 00:48.57 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-110.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 00:54.20 | *** join/#bzflag jolly (~k@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 00:54.22 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:58.29 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-133-113.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 00:58.33 | Carnage | hi |
| 00:58.41 | jolly | hello |
| 00:59.59 | Noodleman | moof |
| 01:00.34 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 01:00.47 | Carnage | wlecome tim |
| 01:00.52 | |tim| | hey |
| 01:00.56 | Carnage | im So happy 3rd win today:) |
| 01:01.04 | |tim| | hehe |
| 01:01.12 | |tim| | that was official right? |
| 01:01.16 | jolly | who did you play? |
| 01:01.41 | |tim| | I just played bips with Carnage |
| 01:01.42 | Carnage | germany,germany and bips |
| 01:01.57 | jolly | ah cool |
| 01:02.03 | jolly | nice job |
| 01:03.12 | Carnage | yep:) now i just need 2 more |
| 01:04.11 | |tim| | I'm open to match the rest of the night if I feel up to it. |
| 01:04.29 | Carnage | ok |
| 01:06.05 | Carnage | um tk on ducati |
| 01:06.58 | Carnage | any admins? |
| 01:17.08 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 02:23.24 | purple_cow | widgeywoo |
| 02:36.07 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-59.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 03:00.11 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-244.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 03:05.32 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-244.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 03:10.33 | *** join/#bzflag jolly (~k@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 03:59.17 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 03:59.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 04:23.58 | TimRiker | ~bzflist |
| 04:27.09 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpy (~Orange@balt-209-163-100-113.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 04:28.00 | Patlabor221 | how's it hangin ralph? |
| 04:39.13 | *** join/#bzflag Pu (~Orange@balt-209-163-100-113.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 04:41.45 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 04:47.28 | Patlabor221 | how are the horsies Pu? |
| 04:47.55 | cniV | ok |
| 04:48.08 | cniV | ive got a semi-final thing on the karma system up |
| 04:48.17 | cniV | www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~kchan/thesis.ps.gz |
| 04:48.35 | cniV | if you cant view postscript, i'll put up a pdf version soon |
| 04:49.14 | bryjen | Ralf? |
| 04:50.05 | Patlabor221 | sure why not a ralf |
| 04:50.17 | bryjen | ~seen MrApathyCream |
| 04:50.20 | | mrapathycream <~MAC@balt-209-163-100-71.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 1d 22h 40m 9s ago, saying: 'still there is no pybzflag'. |
| 04:50.46 | JBDiGriz | ps2pdf works very quickly :) |
| 04:50.53 | bryjen | Ahah |
| 04:51.01 | cniV | ps2pdf produces crappy looking pdfs |
| 04:51.13 | TimRiker | at least they are readable. |
| 04:51.24 | Patlabor221 | crap is better then nothing :) |
| 04:51.26 | cniV | true |
| 04:51.32 | JBDiGriz | and I thought the point was to convey the information rather than looking beautiful. :) |
| 04:51.56 | Patlabor221 | naw he's a student, gotta have flair |
| 04:52.05 | JBDiGriz | I know that I once turned into a bar. |
| 04:52.56 | cniV | well |
| 04:53.07 | cniV | www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~kchan/thesis.pdf is up |
| 04:53.16 | cniV | courtesy of ps2pdf |
| 04:53.41 | JBDiGriz | I won't fault you for the appearance, I promise. :) |
| 04:53.48 | TimRiker | "It is currenly the..." needs a spell checking... |
| 04:54.01 | cniV | erm its a draft :) |
| 04:54.08 | cniV | i havent spell/grammar cehcked anything |
| 04:54.14 | cniV | its currently mental diarrhoea |
| 04:54.40 | cniV | a semi-structured one at that |
| 04:55.35 | TimRiker | Although originally written by Chris <- kill the Although... |
| 04:55.36 | cniV | basically it is designed to give the devs an idea of how to approach implementing the karmasystem |
| 04:55.46 | cniV | ok |
| 04:56.01 | bryjen | two men walk into a bar... the third one ducks... |
| 04:56.25 | TimRiker | Although originally written by Chris <- redundant. |
| 04:56.41 | TimRiker | eep... cut and paste error.... |
| 04:56.43 | cniV | is it? |
| 04:56.59 | TimRiker | In addition, there is also a global <- that one. |
| 04:57.23 | TimRiker | kill the "In addition" |
| 04:57.30 | TimRiker | or the "there is also" |
| 04:58.02 | TimRiker | I'd just do "There is..." |
| 04:58.25 | cniV | ok |
| 04:58.26 | TimRiker | would notify -> notifies. |
| 04:58.34 | Patlabor221 | so If I go an register up 20-30 emails and set up a system of bots to log into servers and bump each others karmas how does your system handle that? |
| 04:58.53 | cniV | yeah |
| 04:59.04 | cniV | read :) |
| 04:59.58 | Patlabor221 | it's all funky symbols, how bout english? |
| 05:00.48 | Patlabor221 | how does one become "trusted" ? |
| 05:00.54 | cniV | if the rated karma and calculated karma doesnt really match up, then it pulls yours down |
| 05:00.54 | TimRiker | Each successful capture of an enemy team's ag results in an increase of your team's score.-> and the death of everyone on that team. |
| 05:01.47 | cniV | you become trusted when enough trusted people say you're trusted |
| 05:01.59 | Patlabor221 | so how do people get trusted in the first place? |
| 05:02.04 | cniV | tim starts off as trusted |
| 05:02.07 | TimRiker | superflags != flags. flags == superflags + badflags + team flags. |
| 05:02.10 | cniV | and then he will say blah is trusted |
| 05:02.22 | Patlabor221 | ahhh magic seed accounts |
| 05:03.00 | cniV | oh |
| 05:03.00 | cniV | bah i can never get the flags right |
| 05:03.04 | cniV | i just walk into them :) |
| 05:03.51 | TimRiker | heh. it's mostly right, just kill the superflags comment in () |
| 05:04.06 | cniV | done :) |
| 05:04.12 | Patlabor221 | so if I run a bot farm with 20-30 rogers running around playing nice, maybe they will get some + karama |
| 05:04.28 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 05:04.31 | cniV | yeah, maybe they will |
| 05:04.49 | TimRiker | which can only travel in a straight line -> which only travel in a straight line |
| 05:05.04 | cniV | but if anyone finds out you're running a bot farm, then they own you and all your bots in one hit |
| 05:05.05 | Patlabor221 | then they can be used to boost each others karma, and the one cheat account |
| 05:05.09 | cniV | so its like gambling :) |
| 05:05.17 | Patlabor221 | you asume they would all have the same IP |
| 05:05.25 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: which is fine. if they don't play nice they will get karma'ed down. |
| 05:05.38 | Patlabor221 | just that one account |
| 05:05.43 | Patlabor221 | then the bots karma it back up |
| 05:05.53 | Patlabor221 | or rotate thru a number of cheat accounts |
| 05:06.07 | cniV | see the thing is |
| 05:06.07 | Patlabor221 | it's all gonna come donw to IP bans in that case anway |
| 05:06.15 | cniV | unless you're trusted/possess high karma |
| 05:06.24 | cniV | theres almost squat you can do in terms of influencing karma |
| 05:06.28 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 05:06.29 | cniV | if your team of 50 bots karma you up |
| 05:06.39 | cniV | and 2 trusted people karma you down |
| 05:06.41 | Patlabor221 | it would not work unless they got trusted |
| 05:06.44 | cniV | you get karma'ed down :) |
| 05:06.44 | Patlabor221 | I get that |
| 05:06.50 | TimRiker | perhaps. I expect we can handle that. karma is all calculated on the db server and there will be a lot of information there to draw from. play time, time registered, etc. |
| 05:07.00 | cniV | yeah |
| 05:07.03 | Patlabor221 | I wory about that trust spreading tho |
| 05:07.04 | cniV | i havent included this in |
| 05:07.18 | cniV | but you can analyse like density of graph |
| 05:07.23 | cniV | and the average number of edges per node |
| 05:07.27 | cniV | and do cycle detection |
| 05:07.34 | cniV | etc |
| 05:07.48 | Patlabor221 | so when will it be implemented? |
| 05:07.56 | cniV | 1.10.x iirc |
| 05:08.04 | Patlabor221 | no I mean time |
| 05:08.15 | Patlabor221 | whos gonna do it? |
| 05:08.23 | TimRiker | http://www.bzflag.org -> http://BZFlag.org/ please. |
| 05:08.34 | cniV | oh ok |
| 05:08.38 | Patlabor221 | why no www? |
| 05:08.57 | Patlabor221 | cus I use www all over bzbb |
| 05:09.11 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: now that we have the http interface and a sql database, next thing to do is registration, then karma. it'll happen. one step at a time. |
| 05:09.21 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: just a preference. |
| 05:09.30 | Patlabor221 | I know your plans and the steps |
| 05:09.37 | Patlabor221 | just wondering if there is any idea of time |
| 05:09.45 | TimRiker | either one is valid, just the shorter one looks nicer printed. |
| 05:10.00 | cniV | heh ok |
| 05:10.17 | Patlabor221 | I want to make changes too, but they are outside the scope of a patch, so I would need to wait for it to be OK for HEAD to be compatable. |
| 05:10.28 | TimRiker | well, http://www.bzflag.org is not valid, but http://www.bzflag.org/ would be. ;-) |
| 05:10.50 | TimRiker | Patlabor221: you mean incompatible? |
| 05:10.57 | Patlabor221 | *sigh* nix geek :) |
| 05:11.02 | Patlabor221 | yeah sorry :) |
| 05:12.06 | Patlabor221 | I mean are we lokkin at weeks? or should i wait till after Xmas? |
| 05:13.42 | cniV | btw thanks for going through the draft :) |
| 05:14.06 | TimRiker | it's not a priority for 1.10 release. I expect we will release 1.10 without central registration and add it in the 1.10 series without breaking net protocol. |
| 05:14.10 | cniV | the final copy should be out within 48 hours |
| 05:14.34 | Patlabor221 | will you then make a 1.10 tag ? then when you do karma do it in that branch and HEAD? |
| 05:14.39 | Patlabor221 | or still work it into head? |
| 05:16.58 | TimRiker | yeah, tag release. then karma still in head as long as it does not break the network protocol. |
| 05:17.51 | Patlabor221 | so if the rest of us wanted to work on things that are more suited for a 1.12 release, we have no CVS to put that in? |
| 05:18.22 | TimRiker | [Sat Nov 1 23:12:37 2003] [error] [client 166.70.135.189] request failed: erroneous characters after protocol string: GE |
| 05:18.22 | TimRiker | T http://db.bzflag.org/db/?action=ADD&nameport=xmission.bzflag.org:5154&version=BZFS1908&gameinfo=004f0012000500000000000 |
| 05:18.22 | TimRiker | 0000000000003000300030003000300010032000000000000GET http://db.bzflag.org/db/?action=ADD&nameport=xmission.bzflag.org:515 |
| 05:18.22 | TimRiker | 4&version=BZFS1908&gameinfo=0&title=HiX+2%2E0+running+current+CVS+Tim%40Rikers%2Eorg+%2820031101%2D22%3A20%3A53%29+passwd |
| 05:18.24 | TimRiker | %3Ap |
| 05:19.14 | TimRiker | how did that happen? |
| 05:20.21 | Patlabor221 | looks like a listserver request got sent to the wrong port |
| 05:21.19 | TimRiker | hmm. xmission is not getting added to bzfls.pl correctly. |
| 05:22.17 | TimRiker | the GET is in the string twice. |
| 05:33.02 | CIA | 03bzflag * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): don't forget the NULL |
| 05:33.24 | TimRiker | fixed. |
| 05:39.22 | *** part/#bzflag calico (calico@bgm-66-24-2-32.stny.rr.com) |
| 06:21.10 | *** join/#bzflag novazur (~novazur@Mix-Le-Lamentin-106-3-149.w80-9.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 06:22.18 | novazur | ibot: bzflist |
| 06:22.31 | novazur | hi ! |
| 06:22.48 | novazur | plz, where is the new servers list ? |
| 06:23.46 | Patlabor221 | for 1.9? |
| 06:24.53 | Patlabor221 | or for 1.7? |
| 06:25.03 | novazur | 1.7 ! |
| 06:25.13 | Patlabor221 | same place it allwys is, http://list.bzflag.org:5156/ |
| 06:25.13 | novazur | the ip change again ! |
| 06:25.28 | novazur | impossible to get the servers list ! |
| 06:25.34 | Patlabor221 | I just got it |
| 06:25.43 | novazur | i'll try again ! |
| 06:25.49 | Patlabor221 | OK! |
| 06:26.29 | novazur | ah yes, but what bzflist must i put whith my : bzflag -list bzflist://..... command ? |
| 06:26.55 | Patlabor221 | list.bzflag.org |
| 06:26.58 | Patlabor221 | :5156 |
| 06:27.05 | novazur | ah !! i try ! |
| 06:27.30 | novazur | ok !!! i'm so stupid ! :-) |
| 06:27.38 | novazur | thank you very much ! |
| 06:27.43 | Patlabor221 | the default should work just fine ! |
| 06:27.47 | Patlabor221 | it hasn't changed at all ! |
| 06:27.53 | novazur | no, it doesn't worked ! |
| 06:28.01 | Patlabor221 | yes, it does I just did it! |
| 06:28.09 | Patlabor221 | http://bzflag.org/list-server.txt ! |
| 06:28.22 | Patlabor221 | works fine! |
| 06:28.31 | novazur | no, not with mine ! |
| 06:28.39 | Patlabor221 | sounds like a personal problem ! |
| 06:28.44 | novazur | no servers list with bzfla -list default |
| 06:29.05 | Patlabor221 | well that makes sense, don't put anythign in there, and it should look at the text file |
| 06:29.11 | novazur | default gives :http://BZFlag.SourceForge.net/list-server.txt |
| 06:29.31 | novazur | don't understand |
| 06:29.34 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 06:29.42 | Patlabor221 | put that into a browser, what do you get? |
| 06:29.43 | novazur | (i'm not english) |
| 06:29.47 | Patlabor221 | I know |
| 06:29.50 | Patlabor221 | nether am I |
| 06:29.50 | novazur | :-) |
| 06:30.20 | novazur | what must i write exactly ? |
| 06:30.26 | Patlabor221 | http://bzflag.sourceforge.net/list-server.txt |
| 06:30.33 | Patlabor221 | in a web browser |
| 06:30.41 | Patlabor221 | what does that give you? |
| 06:30.54 | novazur | bzflist://208.186.182.172:5156/ |
| 06:31.12 | Patlabor221 | it should be giveing you this: bzflist://timriker.dyndns.org:5156/ |
| 06:31.19 | Patlabor221 | your system is caching it |
| 06:31.21 | Patlabor221 | that is bad |
| 06:31.24 | Patlabor221 | or your ISP is |
| 06:31.27 | Patlabor221 | or something |
| 06:31.28 | novazur | ah !!!!!!!!! |
| 06:31.43 | Patlabor221 | put in that line as your list server line and you'll be fine |
| 06:32.08 | novazur | yes !!! |
| 06:32.11 | Patlabor221 | but if you don't want to have to keep puting that in, you should find out why your ISP or system is not giving you current HTTP querys |
| 06:32.14 | novazur | that's why !! |
| 06:32.19 | Patlabor221 | you should fix that |
| 06:32.30 | novazur | my proxy maybe |
| 06:32.34 | Patlabor221 | probably |
| 06:32.37 | Patlabor221 | proxys suck |
| 06:32.43 | novazur | :-) |
| 06:32.57 | novazur | i'll fix that with the extension .txt maybe ! |
| 06:33.08 | Patlabor221 | dono, that's up to you |
| 06:33.11 | novazur | thank you very much |
| 06:33.14 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 06:33.32 | novazur | bye ! i'll try to play |
| 06:33.36 | Patlabor221 | have fun |
| 06:33.41 | novazur | ;-) |
| 07:00.37 | *** join/#bzflag RoadRunnr (~suolon@66.146.128.13) |
| 07:29.51 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:39.45 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~dave@balt-209-163-100-113.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 07:40.39 | learner | howdy mac! |
| 07:40.50 | MrApathyCream | heya |
| 07:41.22 | purple_cow | MrApathyCream: no hard feelings? :) |
| 07:41.31 | MrApathyCream | hone whatsoever |
| 07:41.39 | MrApathyCream | er, none |
| 07:41.41 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 07:43.55 | purple_cow | yay |
| 07:45.31 | purple_cow | doobeedoo |
| 07:45.36 | purple_cow | hooray for depressing stories |
| 07:45.46 | learner | how are the horsies? |
| 07:45.54 | purple_cow | and the doggies? |
| 07:46.12 | MrApathyCream | peachie |
| 07:46.19 | purple_cow | (got a recent picture of the puppies?) |
| 07:46.29 | MrApathyCream | bummer it i thought that tupone fixed the stucky problem |
| 07:46.32 | MrApathyCream | 'parently not |
| 07:46.45 | MrApathyCream | pups, somewhere |
| 07:46.51 | MrApathyCream | gotta scan em |
| 07:47.22 | purple_cow | a cool and hip guy like yourself doesn't have a digital camera? |
| 07:47.29 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 07:47.53 | purple_cow | ooh, congrats |
| 07:48.06 | MrApathyCream | (the mrs birthday) |
| 07:48.41 | purple_cow | enjoying it? |
| 07:48.45 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 07:51.00 | MrApathyCream | oh no, not the nuts again |
| 07:51.44 | learner | tried looking at that bug mac.. cornfusing states are rather screwy |
| 07:52.06 | learner | ls -la |
| 07:52.10 | learner | er, hehe |
| 07:52.45 | MrApathyCream | yes |
| 07:52.54 | MrApathyCream | it seems like such a simple thing |
| 07:52.57 | MrApathyCream | but alas |
| 07:56.21 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (bzflag.dsw): bzfls is dead, bzfls is dead, long live bzfls |
| 08:00.05 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/win32 (BZAdmin.dsw): Roll bzadmin into main build |
| 08:12.48 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/package/win32/nsis (BZFlag.nsi): add bzadmin to win distribution |
| 08:16.17 | JBDiGriz | Hmm, I see MrAC decided to steal his IP back from the orange pumpkins. ;) |
| 08:21.04 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/package/win32 (README.win32.html): update win32 readme-Daniel Remenak |
| 08:22.03 | cniV | hmmm does bzflag work ok with visual studio .net 2003? |
| 08:22.22 | purple_cow | it should |
| 08:22.44 | cniV | ok cool |
| 08:24.27 | MrApathyCream | learner: closing the auto team patch on sf? |
| 08:40.23 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (~|tim|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 08:52.36 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): more bugs |
| 09:25.00 | *** join/#bzflag daBomb (~dalskdjal@215-bem-10.acn.waw.pl) |
| 10:08.40 | *** join/#bzflag Nidhoggr (mandrake@tiphareth.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:08.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net *!*edelstei*@* *!*@68.111.116.228] by adams.freenode.net |
| 10:08.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *sussudio*!*@* *gorb*!*@* *cell*!*@*] by adams.freenode.net |
| 10:11.30 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 10:22.18 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@Ab1a1.a.pppool.de) |
| 10:51.40 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-115-158.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:51.44 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper_ (~daenzer@dclient80-218-115-158.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:51.41 | *** join/#bzflag daBomb (~dalskdjal@215-bem-10.acn.waw.pl) |
| 13:58.54 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@Ab1a1.a.pppool.de) |
| 14:46.02 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-221.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 14:51.21 | tapo | hi |
| 15:19.16 | *** join/#bzflag creeperz (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net) |
| 15:46.10 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-31-87.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net) |
| 15:46.24 | Noodleman | ~seen TimRiker |
| 15:46.25 | | timriker <~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 10h 13m 1s ago, saying: 'fixed.'. |
| 15:46.36 | Noodleman | anyone see the Rikster? |
| 15:47.46 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-163-77.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:47.53 | *** join/#bzflag calico (blue-33276@bgm-66-24-2-32.stny.rr.com) |
| 15:49.43 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 16:01.12 | Tupone | learner: hi |
| 16:14.48 | learner | hello |
| 16:18.35 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-197-150.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 16:18.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 16:18.54 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 16:20.55 | Tupone | hi learner. This bzfls.pl sucks .. or the network |
| 16:30.05 | learner | I get a response from http://db.bzflag.org/db/ now.. |
| 16:30.18 | learner | sounds like it might be the network being flaky |
| 16:32.27 | Tupone | Your is reachable always! |
| 16:32.37 | learner | :) |
| 16:33.58 | Tupone | don't know why I need 5/6 sec to obtain the window of server list ? |
| 16:34.42 | Tupone | even with yours. I should check the code |
| 16:35.24 | Tupone | PING rikers.org (12.237.229.200) 56(84) bytes of data. |
| 16:35.24 | Tupone | --- rikers.org ping statistics --- |
| 16:35.24 | Tupone | 70 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 69013ms |
| 16:35.59 | learner | wrong ip |
| 16:36.17 | learner | tim must have changed the ip and the dns update is still propagating |
| 16:36.38 | learner | 24.1.99.18 |
| 16:36.53 | learner | bash-2.05a$ ping db.bzflag.org |
| 16:36.53 | learner | PING timriker.dyndns.org (24.1.99.18): 56 data bytes |
| 16:36.53 | learner | 64 bytes from 24.1.99.18: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=60.302 ms |
| 16:36.56 | Tupone | that's good |
| 16:37.24 | Tupone | need to change hosts to have a try |
| 16:37.44 | Patlabor221 | won't the dyna dns stuff update a lot faster then a normal DNS? |
| 16:37.55 | learner | "supposed to" |
| 16:38.33 | learner | I use zoneedit and my updates are usally propagated within minutes |
| 16:39.19 | Patlabor221 | no-ip.com lets me add my own domain to there DNS, so I get there fast/auto updating services with my domain, it's kinda cool |
| 16:39.24 | learner | damn.. couldn't get the 486 beast to boot from the floppy.. :( |
| 16:46.45 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-163-77.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:52.08 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-67-120-232-130.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 17:08.32 | learner | woo hoo.. it boots now |
| 17:28.29 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-115-158.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:37.06 | JBDiGriz | learner: What boots, the 486? |
| 17:53.33 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 17:54.38 | [dmp] | ~d |
| 17:54.55 | learner | JBDiGriz: the 486's floppy :) |
| 17:59.29 | JBDiGriz | learner: Put some starch on it. :) |
| 18:00.07 | learner | myrid of problems |
| 18:00.30 | learner | one forgets about most of the nastiness until faced with it again |
| 18:04.11 | learner | i pulled the power on the fan since it's shot and making huge amounts of noise.. you have to beat the cdrom drive to get the tray to move, cmos battery is dead.. |
| 18:04.57 | learner | wee.. finally have freebsd booting from floppy at least now :) |
| 18:06.19 | JBDiGriz | I'm retiring my 486 as soon as I verify the hylafax installation on the new machine. The new machine boots from cd. |
| 18:07.57 | learner | i think I keep it alive just because it's the oldest half-useable machine that can be maintained.. |
| 18:09.31 | learner | it's refreshing to see how slow software has become over time.. I'll occassionally run some of my new tools on the old hardware. it's refreshing since it's almost an order of magnitude slower than my other machines |
| 18:12.05 | Patlabor221 | I have a 486 gateway desktop here |
| 18:12.15 | Patlabor221 | but it has a P80 ODP in it |
| 18:15.34 | learner | I figure if anything, this thing will serve as a good space heater through christmas :) |
| 18:31.49 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 18:36.55 | david_v | my BZflag client is going nuts. it locks up almost every time when i join as observer |
| 18:37.58 | david_v | it worked great one time ago, but now it's very weird... curious |
| 19:03.03 | *** join/#bzflag sn0w_d0ggy (~gig1992@adsl-68-73-87-15.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 19:03.13 | sn0w_d0ggy | hello |
| 19:03.26 | david_v | hey |
| 19:04.44 | sn0w_d0ggy | hi davy |
| 19:07.11 | learner | merry? |
| 19:07.29 | learner | how are you |
| 19:07.34 | sn0w_d0ggy | good |
| 19:07.35 | sn0w_d0ggy | thx |
| 19:07.37 | sn0w_d0ggy | u? |
| 19:07.45 | learner | meh, okay I guess |
| 19:07.52 | david_v | heh |
| 19:07.55 | learner | just had a good run on quol's high speed server :) |
| 19:08.14 | david_v | i haven't been able to play bzflag for three days... my ISP gives me a looot of lag :( |
| 19:08.18 | learner | the ctf'ers were kicking butt :) |
| 19:09.01 | sn0w_d0ggy | :) Not me |
| 19:09.06 | sn0w_d0ggy | refill |
| 19:09.37 | sn0w_d0ggy | there, back |
| 19:20.33 | david_v | i'm starting to wonder what i'll do with my BZ fingers... i can't join as observer, because i crash... and i can't play, because i lag too much |
| 19:25.10 | *** join/#bzflag sn0w_d0ggy (~gig1992@adsl-68-73-87-15.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:26.25 | *** part/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@Ab1a1.a.pppool.de) |
| 19:33.30 | Quol | hey buddy - how R ya? |
| 19:33.47 | sn0w_d0ggy | who? |
| 19:33.57 | sn0w_d0ggy | oh |
| 19:33.58 | sn0w_d0ggy | nm |
| 19:34.03 | JBDiGriz | I'm doing well, the air has cleared up, and we're busily installing web stuff. |
| 19:34.17 | Quol | was talking to JB - but since you are here d0ggy - I will ask you also :) |
| 19:34.57 | JBDiGriz | ~mop learner |
| 19:35.00 | | ACTION get's a mop and cleans up after learner |
| 19:35.19 | sn0w_d0ggy | hehehe |
| 19:35.24 | JBDiGriz | It's a good thing we have a maid in here. :) |
| 19:35.30 | Quol | was nice to see people playing on my High Speed server - I love that style :) |
| 19:35.44 | sn0w_d0ggy | ~d |
| 19:36.03 | sn0w_d0ggy | ~quol |
| 19:36.06 | sn0w_d0ggy | whoa |
| 19:36.12 | sn0w_d0ggy | hmm |
| 19:36.13 | Quol | too bad sn0w_m0onkey missed it - he loves that style aslo.. ;) |
| 19:36.22 | JBDiGriz | I think bry was playing with the parameters while we were testing once. All of a sudden everyone was streaking across the field. |
| 19:36.56 | Noodleman | sn0w_d0ggy: http://stats.bzflag.org/serverinfo.php?server=quol.bzflag.org%3A8085 |
| 19:38.12 | JBDiGriz | Some of the old cdrom drives are a pain to get recognized. I used to set up the CD as an NFS partition from the mac, and just install over the network. |
| 19:38.36 | learner | I'm almost to that point :( |
| 19:38.36 | JBDiGriz | I also managed to set it up using ftp when that is easier. |
| 19:38.49 | JBDiGriz | It's amazingly quick and easy. |
| 19:40.17 | JBDiGriz | And the rewards of FreeBSD are pretty nice, FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE 11:39AM up 463 days, 23:34 |
| 19:41.27 | Quol | JB - I had some netBSD and openBSD servers that were also nice and stable - I think the rewards of any *BSD are apparent :) |
| 19:42.24 | Quol | I also like the ports tree that creates packages for you and automagically compiles/creates packages for dependencies - really nice stuff - *much* better than the linux RPM crap |
| 19:42.43 | JBDiGriz | I used several netBSD servers back before the split. I just switched to FreeBSD several years ago, and haven't checked the others out. |
| 19:43.10 | Quol | FreeBSd is nice - although it is getting a little large |
| 19:43.16 | Quol | OpenBSD is very nice for security |
| 19:43.40 | JBDiGriz | I was just installing a package remotely on linux. I'm still far better on the BSD's. |
| 19:43.51 | Quol | I like the fact that at work I can easily let others install it and not be concerned with how secure it is. |
| 19:44.46 | JBDiGriz | The OpenBSD group has done a lot of good work for all of the BSD's. |
| 19:45.17 | Quol | yes - I agree to that - their OpenSSH is great, that has become a standard replacement for RSA junk :) |
| 19:45.52 | david_v | use Gentoo ;) |
| 19:45.58 | Quol | not that it is junk - just why pay for something when openSSH is free :) |
| 19:46.17 | Quol | and proven to be just as secure... |
| 19:47.06 | Quol | david_v: haven't tried gentoo - all my linux efforts have been with RedHat, Mandrake, and TurboLinux |
| 19:47.07 | david_v | my argument for using Linux: i prefer penguins over devils :) |
| 19:47.17 | Quol | lol |
| 19:47.33 | Quol | OpenSSH's mascot is a blowfish |
| 19:47.42 | david_v | OpenSSH? lol |
| 19:47.47 | david_v | you must be tired :) |
| 19:47.48 | learner | darwin's is a platypus :) |
| 19:48.01 | Quol | I mean openbsd... :) |
| 19:48.12 | david_v | ;) |
| 19:48.57 | david_v | openssh actually has a similar symbol... but that's another story :) |
| 19:49.34 | Quol | they are the same people - so you know- stick to what you do best I guess - they like blowfish |
| 19:49.56 | david_v | :) |
| 19:51.04 | JBDiGriz | No devils in BSD, just daemons. :) |
| 19:51.10 | Quol | I like the fact that you can install a barebones OpenBSD system really easily, and it will have just what you need for a simple base install server - no extra crap on it :) |
| 19:51.32 | david_v | you can do the same with Gentoo or Slack ;) |
| 19:51.53 | david_v | but i have no reason to bash BSD though, it's a nice system as well :) |
| 19:52.03 | Quol | if all you need is a DNS or SMTP server etc.. makes it real easy to secure - you don't have to do much with OpenBSD -secure out of the box.. |
| 19:52.21 | JBDiGriz | my argument for using BSD, I've been using it for 25 years, and it keeps working the same way. Linux works slightly differently so my reactions are just wrong. |
| 19:52.43 | david_v | heh |
| 19:53.11 | david_v | i feel a bit odd, almost a bit ashamed, to have worked with Linux only a little over a year |
| 19:53.43 | Quol | well - when I need to have a system that is configured for multiple services - I like to use linux on those - easier to set those up in the long run, but if I have a specific function for a server, and know that it won't change - then OpenBSD is my choice - they both have their uses :) |
| 19:53.50 | david_v | back at the Win3 ages, i don't think i even knew about Linux /BSD |
| 19:54.23 | david_v | hehe |
| 19:55.04 | JBDiGriz | Back in the BSD 4.0 ages, nobody thought about Windows. :) |
| 19:55.51 | david_v | i'd like to try BSD someday, but right now i don't feel for it. the HDD i'm using is partitioned in a very ugly way (my fault, my fault :) and the second one should probably serve as a resource for getting things into right places... |
| 19:56.33 | JBDiGriz | If you feel like flying to the states, I can let you have this 486 with 2.2 installed on it. :) |
| 19:58.23 | sn0w_d0ggy | h ijb |
| 19:58.31 | david_v | BSD 2.2 or Linux 2.2? if it's the former i'm quite scared :) |
| 19:58.46 | david_v | not scared enough not to give it a try, but for other reasons :) |
| 19:59.01 | JBDiGriz | FreeBSD 2.2, it's been running solidly for 1.5 years :) |
| 19:59.39 | david_v | hmmmm :) |
| 19:59.45 | JBDiGriz | Only broken into a couple of times, but stopped the intruders before they got into the internal network. |
| 20:02.46 | learner | jeesh.. can't get it to work :( |
| 20:03.11 | david_v | get what to work? |
| 20:03.20 | learner | finally got some semblance of cdrom drive recognition and it complains about the media not being a freebsd disk |
| 20:03.31 | david_v | ehh |
| 20:03.49 | learner | can't get it to recognize/use the ethernet interface either |
| 20:04.02 | learner | it's a plain ne2000 |
| 20:04.03 | david_v | try Linux meanwhile :) |
| 20:04.20 | learner | nah, I just had linux on it -- was not too useful |
| 20:04.30 | david_v | BSD has a good potential though |
| 20:04.35 | david_v | not? how so? |
| 20:04.57 | JBDiGriz | It will probably come up on Linux. Installation on older hardware is sometimes a bit flakey, although I've always been able to make it work. |
| 20:05.06 | learner | the system was incredibly too slow, and I really don't want to go compiling kernels |
| 20:05.31 | david_v | what kind of system do you have? |
| 20:05.35 | learner | actually, I had similar problems with the cdrom drive in linux, but eventually found some option that let it work |
| 20:05.57 | learner | jb: any hints on how to poke the ethernet? |
| 20:06.04 | Patlabor221 | long stick |
| 20:06.11 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:06.12 | JBDiGriz | To tune a system, you usually have to recompile the kernel, whether linux or BSD. |
| 20:06.44 | david_v | i've been tuning my Linux kernel for a while... works very nicely :) |
| 20:07.03 | JBDiGriz | When you first boot up, you have the option of turning off some of the devices. There's probably an IRQ conflict on the older 486, so turn off ethernet devices which you don't have. |
| 20:07.24 | learner | true.. but the bsd default of "no extras" is more keen to my taste than "most extras" that linux prefers :) |
| 20:07.30 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:07.44 | david_v | i don't mind, as i'm a geek :) |
| 20:07.59 | JBDiGriz | I find the modules that a linux kernel compiles usually makes my system unusable unless I'm very careful. |
| 20:08.34 | learner | I don't mind either, sometimes .. just not for this thing -- it's not that important, not what I care about poking. installing bsd is only moderately entertaining at that. |
| 20:09.14 | learner | I'm almost to the point of just installing that assembler os.. that could be interesting |
| 20:09.18 | david_v | lol |
| 20:09.21 | JBDiGriz | On the new system, it took about 5 minutes to install. Of course that was with a newer cd drive as well. |
| 20:09.57 | david_v | learner: i know a guy who writes small Windows apps in Assembler, but an OS... :) |
| 20:10.07 | david_v | do you really mean that? hehe :) |
| 20:10.14 | learner | yep. pretty neat. |
| 20:10.19 | JBDiGriz | Why not? How do you think we used to do it? |
| 20:10.38 | david_v | it's just not so friendly for those who try to learn how it works :) |
| 20:10.50 | JBDiGriz | And your point? |
| 20:11.10 | learner | the only annoyance is that I'd have to maintain a remote linux box and cross compile for it since they dont' have a compiler working yet :( |
| 20:11.14 | Patlabor221 | back in the days of asembler software rendereres cus you just needed the speed |
| 20:11.24 | david_v | nothing wrong with an Assembler OS in itself, but it doesn't hold in the long end |
| 20:11.36 | david_v | too much work for too little benefit |
| 20:11.48 | Patlabor221 | well back when C was slow, it's what you did |
| 20:11.48 | david_v | i thank Pat put it quite clear |
| 20:12.01 | Patlabor221 | so there was big benifit, speed |
| 20:12.18 | david_v | yep. but then the programs were a bit smaller too :) |
| 20:12.29 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 20:12.33 | JBDiGriz | Unix was quite a revolutionary concept when it first came out. |
| 20:12.37 | Patlabor221 | but you still had to have an OS :) |
| 20:12.42 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:12.51 | david_v | i just wonder how much you can do with an ASM OS today |
| 20:13.06 | Patlabor221 | anything you can do with C |
| 20:13.09 | JBDiGriz | UCSD Pascal was absolutely amazing, not only was the OS written in Pascal, but a lot of it was interpreted as well. |
| 20:13.11 | Patlabor221 | just with more typing :) |
| 20:13.12 | david_v | just practical issues, such as, who would work at it |
| 20:13.21 | david_v | "more typing" is an understatement :) |
| 20:13.34 | Patlabor221 | some people think better in assembly |
| 20:13.36 | JBDiGriz | geeks have turned into wimps :) |
| 20:13.41 | Patlabor221 | that they have |
| 20:13.43 | david_v | heh |
| 20:13.57 | JBDiGriz | I bet they don't even own a soldering iron anymore. |
| 20:14.01 | Patlabor221 | it's those garbage collecting lanuages |
| 20:14.02 | Quol | who's calling me a wimp?? :) |
| 20:14.24 | david_v | getting hot in here :) |
| 20:14.41 | Patlabor221 | JBDiGriz, did you see the watch that has a 256 meg USB drive in it? |
| 20:14.52 | david_v | wheeha |
| 20:15.00 | JBDiGriz | Yep, but it doesn't have an OS installed :) |
| 20:15.01 | Quol | JB - I heard of those solering iron thingies - thought they were a myth though... (joke) |
| 20:15.12 | david_v | :) |
| 20:15.20 | Patlabor221 | you could probably put an OS on it |
| 20:15.26 | Patlabor221 | my mobo will boot to USB :) |
| 20:15.32 | Quol | probably netBSD has a running instance for it |
| 20:16.09 | david_v | this is an interesting phenomena. gather a few geeks, and they'll come to discuss computer history in a few minutes :) |
| 20:16.11 | Quol | they are crazy - netBSD for PlayStations, ATARI's, XBOX'es, PALM devices...almost everything |
| 20:16.15 | JBDiGriz | my mobo will boot to firewire (of course any recent macintosh will do that if you hold down the t) |
| 20:16.29 | david_v | Quol: hehe :) and i thought those Linux geeks were mad... :) |
| 20:16.39 | david_v | with Xbox distros and that |
| 20:17.03 | JBDiGriz | Those linux geeks are wimps, we already established that. They can't even imagine an OS in assembly language. :) |
| 20:17.29 | Quol | david_v: check out their home page: http://www.netbsd.org - there is a list of support hardware platforms on the right - there are hundreds listed - crazy |
| 20:17.53 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:18.45 | Quol | Patlabor221- have you checked the netBSD site - I think someone did that :) |
| 20:18.46 | Patlabor221 | it would be firewalled |
| 20:19.13 | Quol | :) |
| 20:19.42 | JBDiGriz | I like netBSD, they recently handed me their latest CD. I just haven't used it. |
| 20:20.00 | david_v | lol |
| 20:20.03 | Quol | JBDiGriz - I like them also - was my first experience with any *BSD |
| 20:20.17 | Quol | nice and small and really clean to work with |
| 20:20.57 | JBDiGriz | My first experience with BSD was arguing with Bill Joy in a dormitory in Toronto, during Usenix. |
| 20:25.35 | Quol | JBDiGriz - do you know what netBSD is using as it's firewall now - still IPF?? |
| 20:26.45 | Quol | that's the one thing I like about the current linux kernel - iptales/netfilter - nice stuff (IMO that is) |
| 20:27.06 | david_v | iptables is nice :) |
| 20:28.16 | david_v | i have in practice four rules in my firewall, and it works great |
| 20:28.35 | Quol | only 4 david_v :) |
| 20:29.04 | david_v | yep, and it suits me just fine |
| 20:29.27 | david_v | i make sure to download stuff only from trusted sources, so i don't outbound checks |
| 20:29.38 | david_v | i might consider adding those, but right now i don't have any urge for it |
| 20:29.53 | Quol | lol - simplicity is sometimes better - although in some instances I have used iptables with hundreds of rules - has always worked great - although so has IPF in the past also.. |
| 20:30.01 | david_v | and actually i could have reduced it to two rules :) |
| 20:30.39 | david_v | it's just that some annoying IRC servers don't log you in quickly if you don't respond on 113 |
| 20:31.34 | Quol | JBDiGriz - answered my own question I think, looks like NetBSD has taken OpenBSD's PF and shoved it into their OS - poor Darren Reid and his IPF :( |
| 20:37.43 | Quol | anyone ever use DeleGate?? |
| 20:38.01 | Quol | http://www.delegate.org |
| 20:38.49 | JBDiGriz | Darren got himself into trouble with a bunch of people. |
| 20:39.45 | Quol | JBDiGriz - ya I know - too much control drove OpenBSD away, hence the creation of PF - which IMHO is an almost rip-off if his IPF - smae syntax and everything |
| 20:40.25 | JBDiGriz | I haven't played with proxy servers since firewall toolkit. It's nice that there's that option again. |
| 20:41.15 | JBDiGriz | There's nothing wrong with taking an open source project and rewriting everything so that it works as you want it to work. |
| 20:42.00 | Quol | true.. |
| 20:42.12 | Quol | the benefits of OpenSource I guess |
| 20:42.43 | Quol | I just feel bad for the guy - he slaved and worked and created an excelent product |
| 20:43.23 | JBDiGriz | It's not clear that it's only open source. You can pretty much write any program as long as you're not using someone else's base code. |
| 20:44.14 | JBDiGriz | And then he decided that no one else could produce a product like it. |
| 20:45.41 | Quol | yes - but I have my suspiscions that OpenBSD initially at least took Darren Reed's code and just altered it to their liking - rewriting some of it of course - like the *Nuke's, they all have their roots ro PHP-Nuke - the other's just ripped PHP-Nuke off, changing some things, modyfying others - I guess that happens though |
| 20:48.01 | Quol | this delegate thing almost looks nice - will try it out.. |
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| 21:24.11 | sn0w_d0ggy | hey chick |
| 21:24.26 | sn0w_d0ggy | I'll see u on da oder comp |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#bzflag mikep (~mikep@adsl-68-73-87-15.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 21:24.46 | Chikorita | hi merry |
| 21:24.50 | Chikorita | oops |
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| 21:25.53 | learner | hey, legs |
| 21:26.04 | Hornet | hiya |
| 21:26.08 | Chikorita | lego? |
| 21:26.17 | Hornet | yep? |
| 21:26.24 | Chikorita | lego team poland iz on ducati ...dey r challengin us |
| 21:26.30 | Hornet | k |
| 21:26.36 | Chikorita | daBomby an yoyox |
| 21:26.41 | Chikorita | k c u dere |
| 21:26.44 | Chikorita | :) |
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| 22:32.29 | *** part/#bzflag sbouser66 (~42481f57@66.62.140.111) |
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| 22:52.47 | david_v | night |
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| 23:15.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_proton] by ChanServ |
| 23:35.37 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:35.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net *!*edelstei*@* *!*@68.111.116.228] by simak.freenode.net |
| 23:35.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *sussudio*!*@* *gorb*!*@* *cell*!*@*] by simak.freenode.net |
| 23:35.46 | triclops | stupid simak |
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| 23:47.45 | Patlabor221 | ahh it's so nice to be able to go to a store and not cross a picket line :) |