irclog2html for #bzflag on 20031021

00:00.20RenfieldI'm not sure why we decided to keep those funny English units here in the colonies. ;)
00:00.26*** join/#bzflag Carnage_ (strayer@dyn216-8-132-204.ADSL.mnsi.net)
00:00.30SpiffSun?  Oh wait.. you're in Cali..a nd it's only 5:00 there.  Bah.
00:01.03Renfieldand the beach is still very pretty, although a bit cool at this time of the evening.
00:01.31bzfrankwait, i'll take a few pictures, just firing up the web cam
00:01.50SpiffI'll never love another beach unless it's in the Cayman Islands.
00:02.24RenfieldYour loss ;)
00:02.35SpiffThough walking on any beach can be nice. :)
00:02.46SpiffIt's just that I'm too used to the water in Cayman.
00:02.56SpiffOther ocean water is icky.
00:09.47SpiffAnd gonk returns. :)
00:10.06*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@205.197.172.230)
00:12.06*** join/#bzflag stibnite (is@aau.cx)
00:16.27bzfrankcaptain: http://www.wizards.de/~frank/temp/_pic00001.jpg
00:16.54captain_protonoooo
00:17.00*** join/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)
00:17.21*** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (MAC@balt-209-163-100-76.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net)
00:18.45bzfrankhowever I perfer this place to code:  http://www.wizards.de/~frank/temp/_pic00002.jpg (the other room of my lab)
00:19.15MrApathyCreamFor those of you who just can't figure out what to get Apathy for Christmas, here's an idea -> http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/toys/6279/
00:19.18captain_protonheh, /me has a type6 too
00:20.24bzfrankNameless Void, you can call be frank if you prefer ;)
00:21.52Spiffbzfrank:  The link doesn't seem to work.
00:22.33bzfrankalready droped them, wait
00:23.07SpiffAhh.. okies.
00:23.09bzfranktry again
00:23.30SpiffGot it. :)
00:23.43learnerzzz? it's 5:30 where he's at! heh.
00:24.04SpiffWow... that's a mighty cool setup, bzfrank. :)
00:24.09bzfrankNameless void - you a on a repulsor field ;)
00:24.21bzfrankyou have not seen half of it! :)
00:24.42bzfrankbut thanks spiff, I collected gadgets for the last 10 years
00:24.52bzfrankthats a zaurus in the cradle
00:24.57SpiffHehehe.. nothing wrong with that. :)
00:25.33bzfranknotice the linux mug in the middle of pic2!
00:25.52SpiffHehehe. :)
00:26.33SpiffSo.. this stuff is at your house?  Or elsewhere?
00:26.40bzfrankthe combination of the iMac and the PC is very nice - one to look up things, one to work - also there is room to walk and hear music load though the night
00:26.41NamelessVoidalright, this pink dude is cheating  :)
00:26.46bzfrankloud
00:26.48bzfrankmy lab
00:26.48stibniteSpiff: every heard of a player by name of 'syncmaster' ?
00:26.58SpiffNoperz.
00:27.03SpiffBy the way.. I banned someone today.
00:27.05bzfrankthis pink dube has a protector flag, you can only kill him by a-bomb or mine
00:27.16stibnitegj
00:27.17SpiffBigtime cheater.
00:27.31stibnitethis guy i banned today was a borderline cheater
00:27.35bzfrankactually my office - a rented apartment only for the purposes of programming and work
00:27.40stibnitefirst noe I've ever seen
00:28.13SpiffEveryone was complaining.. and saying that the place sucked without admins there (I'd just arrived).  And this guy cursed.. and I'm like "be nice please."  And then I pulled up and shot him.. and he flew away.  LoL
00:28.21SpiffI'm like "Ohhhhh... I get it."  LoL
00:28.28stibnitelol
00:28.29SpiffDoh! :)
00:28.38bzfranknameless void: what frame reates do you get? it is acceptable?
00:29.31NamelessVoidhold, just dropped the daBomb
00:29.42bzfrankuh oh!
00:30.04NamelessVoid80-100 fps, vsync off,
00:30.14bzfrankwhat system setup?
00:30.59NamelessVoid550Mhz xeon, 1g ram, nvidia 5200 fx
00:31.18bzfrankthanks!
00:31.29bzfrankand you general feelings?
00:31.48bzfrankafter all I am still collecting wishes for the final ;)
00:32.15Patlabor221damn, and I need to get gloves
00:32.44*** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-204.ADSL.mnsi.net)
00:33.09Patlabor221learner, http://bfoj.bakadigital.com/images/bike/DSC00001.JPG
00:33.11NamelessVoidhmmm, give awhile to play with it......right now...its cool, just have to figure out if the funky feeling i get is a good thing or a bad thing
00:33.23Patlabor221thur 00004
00:34.56learnerPatlabor221: coolio shaweet :)
00:35.17NamelessVoidrail gun doesnt work?
00:35.22bzfrankit should
00:35.28learnerhave you taken her out yet?
00:35.38Patlabor221RG works, just don't shoot the tank that has protect
00:35.46NamelessVoidlots of light, no explosions
00:35.48bzfrankok, thanks! :)
00:35.55*** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net)
00:35.58bzfrankopen console (F1)
00:36.03bzfranktry 'demomode'
00:36.05NamelessVoidaaaaah, thats the prot under the tank name....ok
00:36.08bzfrankhave fun with some tanks
00:36.12Patlabor221learner, been riding around the lot here, need to get it registered
00:36.19Patlabor221making sure it's all in working order
00:36.23Patlabor221so far so good
00:36.28learnernice
00:36.34bzfrankprot = protector flag = tank cannot shoot, but cannot be hurt
00:36.43bzfrankexcept by special effort
00:36.55Patlabor221needs new tires soon i fear
00:36.56learnerlooks like it's in pretty good shape
00:37.01bzfrank(e.g. A bomb or microwave)
00:37.04learnerexcept for the tires ;)
00:37.14learnerand a little bit of rust
00:37.36Patlabor221I cleaned off all I could, I need to hit the the rims with a coat of paint
00:37.59learnerthe engine block looks nice and clean
00:38.06learneryou rub that down to a shine or something? :)
00:38.23MrApathyCreamjoin #bzflag
00:38.33learneryes, MAC, please do :)
00:38.59stibnitehey learner Spiff said you might have a badword list
00:39.06Spiff;)
00:39.12learnerthere is a badwords list in the sources
00:39.23stibniteso i guess i might have one too!
00:39.27stibnitety. :)
00:39.29learnerthere is a short and long version depending on how beefy the server is
00:39.39Patlabor221learner, that is after rubbing, the aluminum is stained from being so dirty for so long.
00:39.41bryjenMmmm beefy
00:40.09learnermisc/multilengualSwearList.txt I believe, for the long version
00:40.23learnerhttp://brlcad.org/bzflag/cvs/misc/
00:40.32NamelessVoidno sound with flame?
00:40.49learnerPatlabor221: nothing that a nice coat of black primer can't fix ;)
00:41.12bzfrankno, I just didn't include some 'woooosh' yet
00:41.21learneror you mean the aluminum on the rims?
00:41.48Patlabor221well the coating on the aluminum, don't know what it is
00:42.06Patlabor221took a power washer, a buffer and hand rubbing to that
00:42.14Patlabor221and it's still like that
00:42.31Patlabor221sup mac
00:42.33learnerstill not too shabby
00:42.42Patlabor221yeah, I can live with it
00:43.01learnerlooks like she's only gone down maybe once?
00:43.09Patlabor221ran it around the lot for bout half an hour, no problems, got it up to about 40
00:43.11learnerand only barely?
00:43.12Patlabor221yeah on one side
00:43.49learnerhehe
00:44.25learner*skreeeeetch*
00:45.06NamelessVoidfps drops to 40-50 when  i am in the buildings
00:45.30bzfrankyep, too many polygones yet
00:45.40bzfrankthe castle or?
00:46.08CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (10 files): stop the infernal vc mangling warnings
00:46.25NamelessVoidyep the castle, especially turning towards the trees
00:46.38learnerheh, the hallelujah shot: DSC00003.JPG
00:47.14bzfrankthe castle has a bit too many polygones yet
00:47.44Patlabor221yeah sun is bad out there now
00:50.15NamelessVoidF4 is chaff?
00:50.56bzfrankf5 is err... debug ;)
00:51.30Patlabor221you can shoot a mine
00:51.31bzfrankuse 'a' and 's' to zoom
00:51.32Patlabor221just not twice
00:56.14NamelessVoidthat is very cool when abomb goes off and you get to see the moutains
00:57.03bzfrankalso abomb moves games objects around ;)
01:05.00NamelessVoidi blew up the head......oh no, i am going to get it now... lol
01:07.30bzfrank:)
01:09.34NamelessVoidthere is nothing like watching the missles track the bottle of bier
01:10.36bzfrankmissiles have quite a kick
01:10.52bzfrankthey are good to kick the soccer balls
01:11.37NamelessVoidhmmm, it seems the the  bullets should be able to move  the futbols better than the bieren
01:12.08bzfrankyou are right, however their mass is currently the same
01:13.52NamelessVoidneed a reload timer
01:14.17bzfranka 'can shoot' light is planed
01:14.43*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-119-161.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)
01:14.49NamelessVoidis there  a way to escape the bomb
01:14.58bzfrankdrive like hell!
01:15.27bzfrankabombs are good to kill gm nests
01:15.45bzfrankstill the gm is not so powerful anyway
01:15.52bzfrankit only locks on IR
01:16.29NamelessVoidseems to do a good job though
01:17.17bzfrankbut a tank can outwit it, just try to shoot one at yourself (use the world borders as reflection zones)
01:17.55bzfrankif you drive 90 degrees to the missle full speed it will very likely miss you
01:18.11bzfrankbut the IR can reaquire - ANY tank ;)
01:18.43NamelessVoidgah, everything locked up
01:18.51bzfrankups
01:19.00bzfrankwhat happened?
01:20.22NamelessVoidi jumping  into stone henge while  firing, when  i landed,  it locked....
01:21.27bzfrankpress 'tab' often!
01:21.42bzfrankthen it should unlock
01:23.26NamelessVoidtoo late, it went  NR, so i killed the task
01:23.40bzfrankmhmm
01:24.04bzfrankit should not lock up, I'll take a look at the collision setup
01:24.44NamelessVoidtake a look at the bullet reflection  as well,
01:25.13NamelessVoidi  went back into stone henge,  and fired, the bullet froze on one monolith
01:25.30bzfrankactually at the edge of two polygons
01:25.35NamelessVoiddid it again
01:25.45NamelessVoidit paused before flying out
01:26.09bzfrankyes, stonehedge is notorious for unaliged polys - I only included it for its visuals
01:26.29NamelessVoidahhh
01:27.10NamelessVoidit wont let me leave....nooooooooooo, is there a self destruct/
01:27.12NamelessVoid?
01:27.39bzfrankyes, f12
01:28.27NamelessVoidcool,  it let  my "essence" go
01:34.38NamelessVoidthe "0" is great
01:35.05bzfrank"0" ?
01:35.20bzfrankyou mean the messages?
01:35.37NamelessVoidyes
01:35.45bzfrankah :)
01:36.13NamelessVoidhope that isnt  programmable......can  only imagine some of the  phrases to come out of there....  :)
01:36.35bzfrankit can be freely modifed
01:36.59bzfrankwell, you don't have to subscribe to such servers, the update of your data.zip remains with you
01:37.26NamelessVoidyeah, it is cool though....
01:37.41bzfrankthe client does not download mods without explict warnings
01:38.08NamelessVoidok
01:38.13NamelessVoidthat makes  sense
01:40.47NamelessVoidwell, it  looks  good  Herr Frank......looking forward to updates :)
01:41.06bzfrankof course ;)
01:42.29bzfrankI will rework the collisions stuff also
01:42.38bzfrankfor the 29th time ;)
01:43.09NamelessVoidonly 29, yah, 38 is  a lucky number
01:43.33bzfrankwhy? I though 42 is the world number ;)
01:44.09NamelessVoidlol
01:44.19NamelessVoidok,  dog quality  time
01:51.01bzfrankgood night
01:54.56CIA03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/common (global.cxx): reduce default theif power; .75 size (instead of .5) and 1.25 velocity (instead of 1.67 (which is more than V)) making it more on par
02:06.55*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-246-61.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
02:06.56*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ
02:29.26learnertriclops, have you peaked at the byu guy's work?
02:30.01triclopsyes
02:30.23learnerwhat did you think?
02:30.30triclopstheir API is far from being complete
02:30.46learnerdid you try to run their headless client?
02:31.02triclopsplus I'm not keen on the way they implemented it
02:31.13triclopsnot yet
02:32.13triclopsi think its also for 1.7
02:36.11learnerIt is a quick and dirty hack, but some of their ideas are practical
02:36.19learneryes, it was based off the 1.7g2 sources
02:36.35learnerI'm not implying anything, just curios ;)
02:37.06triclopsthats cool. what ideas of theirs do you like?
02:38.20learnerwell, there trimming away of a headless client is probably the most useful as it defines what needs to be pulled out of the client into a game library
02:38.51learneras for the AI aspects, it's pretty basic and domain specific
02:39.27learnerI'd still like to see a system that defines itself on the fly with a very thin api for core concepts
02:40.05triclopshow would that work?
02:40.42MrApathyCreamlearner: thief can't kill! you've weakened it too much
02:40.53learnerthe api would define hooks for determining what functions/actuators are available and what types of args they take
02:41.13MrApathyCreami should be able to steal gm with some some skill
02:42.11learnerit was faster than V and almost as small as tiny -- practically invincible
02:42.22MrApathyCreamyes, invisible, because it can't kill
02:42.29MrApathyCreaminvincible
02:42.41MrApathyCreamthief is a pretty weak flag as it is
02:42.51NamelessVoidyeah, have to agree, it either has to  lose speed  or keep its no killing capability
02:42.51MrApathyCreambut interesting if i have a chance
02:43.08triclopslearner: what about sensory functions?
02:43.09MrApathyCreamNamelessVoid, it is keeping the no kill
02:43.20MrApathyCreambut learner made it bigger and slower
02:43.38learnerthe values it had made it too powerful, though -- perhaps we need something in between still
02:43.58NamelessVoidnooooo,  not bigger  and slower....noooooooooo
02:44.20learnerwith how it was, whomever held it could zoom in, drop and kill at whim..
02:44.34Bagheerabut  they cant pick the  flag up again
02:44.40MrApathyCreamlearner: once
02:44.41Bagheera...or can  they
02:45.04learneryes.. and?
02:45.13learnerthat's a rather unfair once
02:45.14MrApathyCreambags just like any flag, flags drop for up to 5 times, then they dissappear
02:45.21MrApathyCreamlearner: so is laser
02:45.29learnerthe player shouldn't be able to rather decisively decide who will get killed next
02:46.01SpiffWhy would the thief flag kill someone?
02:46.20Bagheerabad childhood
02:47.10SpiffOh gee.. the panther is a comedian. :P
02:47.18CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/common (global.cxx): undo learner
02:47.36MrApathyCreamlearner: then put in code that says you can't shoot for x seconds after thief drop
02:50.39MrApathyCreamlearner the culling problem happens with depth buffer on?
02:50.50learnerstill seems wrong for it to be faster than V and as small as tiny just to counter GM..
02:51.13SpiffI think that's cool... but I don't think it should kill.
02:51.14MrApathyCreama thief is by definition slippery
02:51.17learnerI would have thought: make GM less powerful
02:51.21MrApathyCreamspiff it doesn't kill
02:51.26SpiffGood. :)
02:51.42SpiffI understood the above convo to mean that it was being considered.
02:51.45MrApathyCreamV is fast AND can shoot
02:51.47learnerI agree that it should be faster, just not more than V
02:51.58MrApathyCreamtiny is small AND can shoot
02:52.01MrApathyCreamSpiff: no
02:52.03SpiffI'm with Apathy on that.
02:52.11MrApathyCreamw00t!
02:52.18SpiffThe ray of the TH flag doesn't go too far anyway.
02:52.26SpiffLOL
02:52.59MrApathyCreamarg
02:53.01learnerSpiff: so with thief I'm basically faster than anything on the board, incredibly hard to hit, and I can take your weapon and immediately use it against you to boot
02:53.02MrApathyCreamalmost had em
02:53.51SpiffYes... but if the other player has a brain in their head.. they will be prepared.
02:54.01SpiffI have no trouble killing people who have that flag.
02:54.20learnerspiff, you can't shoot him, and you can't run away ..
02:54.28learnerat least it's very hard
02:54.30SpiffBesides.. it can't kill until it's stolen a flag.
02:54.40learnersure, it just has to drop it's flag
02:54.43SpiffMaybe for sissies. :)
02:55.01SpiffGM doesn't have trouble hitting *anything* unless it is used improperly.
02:55.31MrApathyCreamyup
02:55.45learnerso make GM less powerful!?
02:55.50MrApathyCreamnah
02:55.53SpiffTH will do that.
02:56.08SpiffIt will also counter some rather annoying flags.. like ST.. :)
02:56.13learnerif there is no GM on the field, TH is absurdly too powerful
02:56.15SpiffAnd OO.
02:56.16MrApathyCreamthere's nothing wrong with powerful weapons, so long as there are other ones
02:56.35SpiffSo? If there's no ST in the field.. GM is absurdly powerful as well.
02:56.52learnerI'd say GM is absurdly powerful, period.
02:56.52SpiffTH is a good "antidote" to all of the powerful flags.. which I think is cool.
02:56.53MrApathyCreamlearner: how bout this: Thief flags allways zap
02:57.00MrApathyCreamwhen you drop them
02:57.06learnerzap?
02:57.12SpiffYou have to reload when you drop it?
02:57.16SpiffThat would work.
02:57.17learnerthe timeout isn't a bad idea
02:57.17MrApathyCreamthey don't drop, but relocate to somewhere else
02:57.20triclopshow about forcing a weapon reload whenever someone changes weapon
02:57.32MrApathyCreamtriclops, not a bad idea either
02:57.35SpiffPrecisely, triclops.  Someone drops TH.. they have to reload.  That'd be good.
02:57.40MrApathyCreammeaning act like all the bullets are in use
02:57.52SpiffI like that idea a lot.
02:57.55MrApathyCreamok, i'll put in the zapping thing
02:58.04MrApathyCreamthat's easy... the other may be to dunno
02:58.07learneryes, triclops .. that could work
02:58.20learnereven if they drop the TH flag, they should have to reload as well
02:58.24SpiffThough a reload on the drop of some flags would be bad.
02:58.32SpiffLike ID... it's sole use is to find flags.
02:58.38learnerno, no - just thief
02:58.42SpiffGood. :)
02:58.46SpiffJust being sure. ;)
02:58.46triclopsonly weapon flags
02:58.54SpiffNah... that'd suck.
02:58.59SpiffSome of us change weapon flags lots.
02:59.05SpiffEspecially ST, GM, OO, L, etc.
02:59.12SpiffAnd it's usually so we can survive.
02:59.23triclopsfair enough
02:59.35SpiffA GM is about to blast me.. I take a half circle, drop my ST, and get a GM in time to spin jump, lock, and blow him away. :)
02:59.57SpiffI love doing that too.. makes people maaaaaaad. ;)
02:59.58SpiffLoL
03:00.11triclops:)
03:00.36*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-246-61.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
03:00.36*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ
03:02.41CIA03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Thief always has a grab of 1 so it always get sucked into the ether
03:03.23triclopsleaner: i'm a bit confused about how a hooks based bot api would work
03:04.06Patlabor221what hooks besideds "think" and "moveMyAss" would you need?
03:04.34triclopsand "listenToMessage"
03:04.41Patlabor221yeah
03:04.57learnerit's a bit too complicated for me to explain in here, but basically there is an interface to first determine your basic environment and then second create meta-actions
03:05.08Patlabor221doLittleVictoryDance(bool nasty)
03:05.36MrApathyCreamPatlabor221, yes, when i did otto, i kept wanting to make an abstract base "interface" class but kept coming to the conclusion that it's basically, am i gonna be killed? -> run, or i'm gonna get you sucka
03:05.38triclopshehe Pat
03:05.55learnerso you could as something like "what can I do?" and you'd be returned a set of actions like move_forward/backword turn_left/right, etc
03:06.04Patlabor221I can see API calls like getStuffInView
03:06.14Patlabor221or getWorldThingysInRad()
03:06.25MrApathyCreamPatlabor221, yes, closest player, closest flag, risky bullets
03:06.30MrApathyCreametc.
03:06.33Patlabor221yeah, but I don't call those "hooks"
03:06.39MrApathyCreamNoodleman, niether do i
03:06.42Patlabor221I call those API functions
03:06.42MrApathyCreamheh
03:06.47MrApathyCreamNoodleman, neither do i
03:06.49MrApathyCreamarg
03:06.54Patlabor221heh
03:06.57MrApathyCreami can type the words n o ,
03:06.57learnerthen those could be coalesced into an api of dodge_left, go_to_building, etc
03:07.25Patlabor221would you not be sort of predefining how the AI works then learner?
03:07.46learnerno, no -- quite the opposite
03:07.50triclopssurely that kind of stuff could be implemented on top of a basic API?
03:07.54Patlabor221sounds like your making an AI framework, then just filling in the logic
03:08.09Patlabor221like to just give each AI some speronaltily
03:08.13learnerit would have no pre-existing knowledge of what it means to shoot, for example
03:08.25learneror even how to shoot
03:08.35Patlabor221but your saying that you need to tell it how to dodge left
03:09.00learnerno, that you then COULD tell it how to dodge left, etc
03:09.08learnervia the api
03:09.15Patlabor221sounds like a sub API
03:09.34Patlabor221would you be able to NOT use the meta moves if you did't want to? and just wanted a timesice kinda thing?
03:09.54learnersure
03:09.55Patlabor221yours sounds like a nice AI utils class
03:10.04learnerin fact there would be no meta-moves that you don't define
03:10.21learneryes, it's a general AI framework that is completely app-unspecific
03:10.38Patlabor221so just a move macro storage system to work with the AI callbacks
03:10.45Patlabor221still don't call that "hooks"
03:10.57Patlabor221make em plugins :)
03:11.10learnerbot scripts/plugins ;)
03:11.34Patlabor221then I can make one in MFC!!! :)
03:12.32triclopsmake sense, but I think for what I'm attempting to do it isn't entirely necessary. Someone could add that later if they felt compelled
03:12.37Patlabor221if I'm using MFC, do you not think I am allready imune to pain :)
03:14.02DogTiredwe'll find out soon enough after a few  trips  on  that motorcycle
03:14.07learnertriclops, your stuff is fine -- it could still be tacked on as a compiled library/plugin/etc that sits on top of this generic framework later anyways
03:15.17triclopsyep, cool. i just didn't quite understand your use of hooks :)
03:15.54MrApathyCreamcaptain_proton checks in from New Delhi
03:16.58MrApathyCreamor perhaps it's just a bot that searches for MFC and spews insults at the author
03:19.23DogTired...so you are  saying perfect cell is actually a bot?
03:20.01MrApathyCreamNoodleman, unless captain_proton == perfect cell?
03:20.06MrApathyCream;)
03:20.31MrApathyCreamthe noodleman 'feature' is really annoying
03:21.16YesFeatureYesFeature, this works too
03:59.32Patlabor221MAC, do you know where you tell VC what the current source controll system is?
04:06.14MrApathyCreamum
04:06.39MrApathyCreamin the registry somewhere, iirc
04:07.29Patlabor221yeah found a app that reasigns SS to it
04:07.49Patlabor221was set to use CVS and it was a bit "iffy"
04:08.48MrApathyCreammm
04:08.49MrApathyCream'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SourceCodeControlProviders'
04:08.51MrApathyCream?
04:08.53MrApathyCreammaybe?
04:09.07Patlabor221dono what this little app did, but it's all cool now :)
04:14.35Patlabor221man I hope this works
04:21.24Patlabor221damn, forgot to commit part of OSFile
04:21.29Patlabor221guess it's on to list server
04:23.53Patlabor221makeing them strong faster and better
04:24.10learnerbzviagra
04:24.20Patlabor221heh
04:26.51Patlabor221I guess "distilling" is a good term
04:27.07MrApathyCreamand are you going to put them in bzflag? or some other corrupt project?
04:27.10MrApathyCream:)
04:27.30Patlabor221you are thinking of it backwards mon 'frair :)
04:27.48Patlabor221bzflag is not ready for anything of this nature
04:28.00Patlabor221but this thing will soon be ready for bzflag
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04:30.05learnerheya kr
04:30.15KRhiiii dee ho neighbors
04:30.16learnerhow goes the boatness?
04:30.30KRnot much lately - 2 mucho work
04:30.51KRalthough I did manage to put my kayak on top of my car
04:30.59KRmaybe I'll use it soon :)
04:31.31Patlabor221just gonna drive around with it till you find time?
04:31.42KRyep - motivation ;)
04:31.57KRmaybe a dawn paddle with coffee tomorrow
04:32.07Patlabor221heh
04:32.42KRsailing up to a regatta Nov 1, the Steed Bonnett Regatta
04:33.00learnernice
04:33.04KRSteed was "The Gentleman Pirate", race rules are:
04:33.16KR1- No water ballons or potato guns
04:33.35KR2 - Must sign up by end of pre-race Capt's meeting (free Bloody Mary's)
04:33.46KR3 - Capt and Crew must dress like Pirates :)
04:33.48JBDiGriz4-No Pooftas
04:34.01KR5 - Cheesy poofs are OK tho'
04:34.02JBDiGriz5-There is no rule 5
04:34.30Patlabor221dood, you made him skip 4 :)
04:34.36learnerhehe
04:35.13KRso basically it will be a 35 mile sail (drinking), spend night, next day Race (while drinking), post-race celebration (lotta drinking), come home (hurting)
04:35.22KR:)
04:35.37KRAAAARRRRRR!
04:35.58KRJB - Michigan ComCast IP I think it was
04:36.34learnerarrrr
04:37.18KRonly bad thing about the race - my crew is male - would rather have a buxom wench to man me tiller ;)
04:37.30learnerlol
04:37.34KRduring and after the race
04:37.37KRlol
04:37.53Patlabor221thank the maker bzg isn't here
04:38.11KRhave you heard from her?
04:38.14JBDiGrizShe would man your tiller for you, but I don't think you would enjoy it.
04:38.18KRanyone?
04:38.21KRlol
04:38.32learneryes, she's around :)
04:38.36JBDiGrizShe's been around, but not playing as much.
04:38.40KRshe'd stuff the tiller up the capt's scupper hole
04:38.50learneravoiding the harmones
04:38.56KRtell her I said Hi and shes missed
04:39.07JBDiGrizLeave her a memo
04:39.10KRew - those nasty harmones
04:39.28learner<PROTECTED>
04:39.28KRhow?
04:39.33KRah OK
04:39.40JBDiGrizlearner is psychic
04:40.26Patlabor221learner you never did re-ask thos questions on the layoug
04:40.28Patlabor221layout
04:40.32learneror psycho .. I get so confused
04:40.58KRboth, me thinks
04:41.07KRpsychico
04:41.13KR:)
04:41.22JBDiGrizpsychotic ;)
04:41.27KRlol
04:41.42KRRumble In Mass later tonight...
04:42.02learnerPatlabor221, indeed I have not -- another night for I must retreat to shleeppyville
04:42.07KRrebel Chik not on bzRebels anymore?
04:42.10Patlabor221k :)
04:42.16learneryes she is still
04:42.25KRsaw u are leader now
04:42.30learneryes, that too
04:42.38KRI'm about to disband USD maybe
04:42.47KRno participation
04:42.47Patlabor221no games?
04:42.48learner:)
04:43.44JBDiGrizProXS is becoming a social club for fun players. We have a better time practicing than matching.
04:43.47KRleader lerner psycho psychic
04:44.53Patlabor221shoudl make it the "leauge of extrodinary tankers"
04:50.19KRusing GAIM for IRC now - its pretty good
04:51.44KRbedtime - c ya'll tomorrow
04:51.54KRfun killin you tonight JB ;)
04:52.12KRbye
04:52.15JBDiGrizu2
04:52.19JBDiGrizg'nite
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05:02.38W8TVI|zI'm going to have to pester Tim
05:02.43W8TVI|zwhat ever he did to bzflag sucked
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10:26.32CIA03larsl * 12bzflag/ (DEVINFO): Added bzadmin to DEVINFO
10:32.24CIA03larsl * 12bzflag/ (README.Linux): Added bzadmin to README.Linux
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11:21.55cniVhmmm is it possible to say with 100% certainty whether a client is either a bot or human
11:21.57cniVand if not
11:22.09cniVis it something that can be done
11:22.37cniVto like...enforce it
11:23.32learnernot really
11:23.58cniVhmmm
11:24.04cniVcoz at the moment, that can kill the karma system
11:24.23learnerthe best you can hope for is a way to ask a bot if it is one and have it respond with an identifier
11:24.35cniVlike natural language stuff?
11:24.49cniVthats what i had in mind
11:24.59learnerno, doesn't necessarily have to be nlp
11:25.09learnerbut that would be nice :)
11:25.30cniVbecause atm a bot can just roam servers
11:25.44cniVlike a player can create a ton of false identities and bot them all
11:25.49cniVpark them on servers
11:25.53learnerthe old bot code is completely separate and identified to the server as a bot
11:26.01cniVand just give each other good karma
11:26.05learnerso th server can reject those bots
11:26.14cniVyeah but if someone wants to abuse the karma system
11:26.21cniVthen it would try to make it pose as a human player
11:26.28learnerbut the newer bots and third party bots will just look like other clients
11:26.58bomber_act bot in the same manner on repeating action ?
11:27.25cniVlike theres nothing stopping me right now from writing a bot which to the server looks like just another human player
11:27.35learnerhow are bot players going to acquire good karma??
11:27.48cniVthey just give themselves good karma
11:27.53triclopsfrom other bots
11:27.57cniVyeah
11:28.03learnerah, true ;)
11:28.13triclopsAI will take over bzflag
11:28.18cniVand then all it takes is one idiot with high karma to give one of those bots good karma
11:28.24cniVfor the system to collapse
11:29.02cniVunless theres a really simple way of identifying bots
11:29.15cniVin which case, any karma adjustments from them get sent to /dev/null
11:29.26learneryou won't be able to do that for just the reasons you mentioned
11:29.41cniVwell thats where nlp comes in
11:29.53learneranyone can write a client that may mimick a human player very very closely
11:30.09triclopsyou could do it like hotmail, yahoo do it
11:30.15cniVyeah but bots cant handle nlp properly
11:30.27cniVso if you suspect a player is a bot
11:30.34cniVask it a question
11:30.48bomber_hmmm
11:30.48learneranyone with even minimal ai education, that is
11:30.52cniVand if it fails to respond properly
11:30.55learnerif it's tied to a registration system, it shouldn't be too much of an issue
11:31.00cniVthen flag it
11:31.09cniVwhat do you mean tied to the registration system?
11:31.24learnerI may _want_ a bot cop that is known and trusted with good karma
11:31.40cniVi think bots can have a different karma system
11:31.53cniVi dont trust AI with high karma
11:31.57cniVtoo much of a security risk :)
11:31.58learnerbut you have no way of telling if something is a bot
11:32.23cniVasking it a question might give you a rather high probability
11:32.30cniVcoz if it fails to respond
11:32.30learnerthe best you are going to be able to do is limit the abusers
11:32.51learneryou can do that by requiring a karma agent/player/whatever to be identified
11:33.12cniVwhat do you mean by 'identified'
11:33.15learnerI can rather easily make a bot that responds to your question
11:33.45learnerI could rather easily make a bot that responds to just about any question you'll think of
11:33.55cniVhow so?
11:34.44learnerit's not hard to mimic a human response with 90% accuracy these days
11:35.22learnerit's that last 10 % that's hard, and thats a fuzzy border with how humans answer any how
11:35.59triclopscniV: what is to prevent a normal user aquiring lots of accounts without the use of bots and abuse them?
11:36.01learnerby identified I mean that a player would have to of registered their player before he can participate in the karma system
11:36.23Chestalbut when the one asking the questions has some expereince, I'd say it's difficult to write an AI that gives a decent answer to the first question
11:36.31learnertake slashdot, for example -- anonymous players cannot acquire karma, you must register
11:36.50ChestalI tried some chat bots and when you limit your conversation to what they like they almost make sense
11:37.04Chestalbut they woudl fail a turing test after 30 seconds
11:37.17cniVtriclops: then at least that person would have to spend time playing in all the accounts
11:37.52cniVyeah so i just register a hundred or so identities
11:37.58triclopsso karma is based upon hours playing as well peer review
11:37.59cniVand then park bots on all of them
11:38.04cniVyeah
11:38.36learnerChestal: indeed, but one would only need to outsmart the karma api/nlp system, which will be effectively published
11:39.23learnerso unless there's going to be a real human asking questions of all the players all the time (which would be annoying) it's not going to work well
11:39.29ChestalI agree that it's hard to make a robust karma system
11:39.41cniVsee an alternative to this method
11:39.59cniVis to disallow a client to make karma adjustments until he/she has reached a certain karma level
11:40.07cniVthey can make as much as they want
11:40.09Chestaladvogato has one with some proven characteristics, but I am not sure if that is applyable
11:40.13cniVbut it goes to /dev/null
11:41.22cniVlike say you need a karma of 3 to be able to have a say in karma adjustment
11:42.13cniVits sorta like how you cant drive before the age of <insert minimum driving age for your area here>
11:42.15triclopshow would anyone get a karma of 3 if everyone started at zero? :)
11:42.45cniVnot everyone starts at 0 :)
11:42.47learnerso.. then I manually play the bot until his karma reaches that level and then I park him
11:43.13cniVyou could
11:43.19cniVbut then only you would
11:43.29learnerI don't see how you can handle them without at least implicit ip-based limitations or a registration system
11:43.31cniVif everybody else reckons it deserves a karma of -5
11:43.35cniVand you give it 5
11:43.42cniVthen your karma goes down
11:43.50cniValong with the bot
11:44.12triclopscniV check out the MS passport rego. They have a little image with a mangled word you have to enter
11:44.55cniVyeah, but thats not implemented
11:45.07triclopshuh?
11:45.12cniVso everytime you join a server, you have to recognise a number :)
11:45.32triclopsor a series of numbers
11:45.35triclopsand letters
11:46.35cniVi was hoping to not go to extremes :)
11:47.26triclopsmaybe wait until it becomes a problem before solving it ;)
11:47.39cniVhmmm....this is a thesis....you're meant to identify the problems and solve them :)
11:50.15triclopsor leave them for the next person, just make sure they are well documented problems... :)
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13:22.02CIA03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (README.OSX): updated to reflect recent implementation of roaming/shift keys and gamma control, plus just reads a little better
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15:59.42purple_cow'allo Patlabor221
15:59.46Patlabor221sup
16:00.38purple_cownot much
16:00.46purple_cowhanging out at work waiting to meet someone
16:00.52purple_cowyourself?
16:00.57Patlabor221fun
16:01.14Patlabor221same, sans the waiting to meet someone :)
16:01.24Patlabor221pondering going to the hell that is the DMV
16:01.58purple_coweek
16:02.41Patlabor221yeah but it sadly must be done
16:08.32Patlabor221I'm hoping I can get learner to comment on my design overview too
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16:16.29Patlabor221ouch
16:16.56Noodlemanhehe
16:17.14Noodlemani think doughecka must be a bot
16:17.17Noodleman:-)
16:19.43Patlabor221or something
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16:24.15Patlabor221whoops, didn't mean the jerk, part
16:24.29Patlabor221he knows lurkers only get one :)
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16:44.30KRhi all
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16:52.41Quolping
16:52.57Patlabor221plunk
16:53.07Quolheya Patlabor221 - how R ya
16:53.16Patlabor221I shall live
16:53.18Patlabor221you?
16:53.25Quolplunk - wat is that - a really laggy reply ;)
16:53.35Patlabor221the sound of packetloss :)
16:53.43Quolnot bad - home sick
16:53.59Quolcould be worse though - could be soo sick that I couldn't be on the computer :)
16:54.13Patlabor221that would be bad
16:54.23Quollol - wouldn't it
16:55.05Quolwhat are you up to - and why "shall you live" - something bad going on?
16:55.24Patlabor221oh,, no nothing bad, just kinda bleh today
16:55.31Patlabor221working on a list server
16:55.41Quolahh - rainy over there? here it is rainy and snowy
16:55.59Quol12cm of snow - and it's not november yet!! that's just wrong
16:56.03Patlabor221ohh no, it never rans here
16:56.14Quolwhere are ya again?
16:56.31Patlabor221socall
16:56.42Patlabor221bout 80 miles north and west of LA
16:56.46Quoli guess you don't get snow either :)
16:57.02Patlabor221umm no
16:57.08Quoldidn't think so
16:57.10Quollol
16:57.18Quol80 miles NW of LA
16:57.25Patlabor221i recall it snowing here once in my entire life, and it did not stick
16:57.36Quolnot as far up as Las Vegas though - lower than that
16:57.39Patlabor221actualy it may be less distance
16:57.59Quolthat the arizona desert?
16:58.04Noodlemancentral oregon is a little bit less arid, but it only snows a sticker once every other year
16:58.05Patlabor221no no
16:58.13Patlabor221I'm in ventura
16:58.18Quolahh
16:58.37Noodlemanhere in indiana it rains every other week it seems
16:58.40Noodlemanand that's weird
16:58.44Patlabor221CA is rather large :)
16:58.57Patlabor221http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&address=&city=moorpark&state=CA&zipcode=93021&homesubmit=Get+Map
16:59.04Quolindeed - was in SanFran a couple years back
16:59.14Quolwent to Sacremento
16:59.21Quoland Santa Cruz
16:59.23Patlabor221probably like 50 miles north west of LA proper
16:59.30Patlabor221SC is closer to where I live
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16:59.40Quolwas cool - didn't make it down to LA though - that's a long drive
16:59.47Patlabor221yeah bout 5 hours
16:59.55Patlabor221I've done it a number of times :)
17:00.19Quolwas neet visiting Santa Cruz - thought of the "Lost Boys" the whole time - was looking out for Vampires :)
17:00.35Patlabor221heh
17:00.51Quoldidn't see Keifer Sotherland once though
17:00.51Quollol
17:00.58Quolhowever you spell his name
17:01.44QuolNoodleman: that's like Vancouver up here in canada - rains all the tie
17:01.45Quoltime
17:04.32Patlabor221it's like mid 70s outside, maybe 80
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17:31.06Patlabor221fun
17:31.06Bagheeralooks like
17:31.24Bagheeranickserv is down as well
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17:32.17Patlabor221wow
17:32.34Patlabor221hello everybody
17:32.34Patlabor221did you all have fun
17:32.34Patlabor221me and baggy did
17:32.34Patlabor221you missed the stripers
17:32.34Bagheerahey, remember you still owe me $20 :)
17:32.44Patlabor221only if you win the bet man, only if you win
17:36.34Bagheerano way I can lose, learner will always be learner
17:36.38Patlabor221yeah but I don't think he can fit into the dress
17:36.38Patlabor221and those heels? have you seen the feet on that boy?
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17:44.56Patlabor221list server!
17:45.03*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
17:45.40Patlabor221wow they keep missing it, wonder what happens when we leave them.
17:45.40Bagheerahere we go again
17:46.11Bagheeramaybe we are the ones entering the alternate "network"
17:46.38Patlabor221unfortonatly noone can be told what "the network" is
17:47.29Bagheeramust be book lovers naming the machines....bradbury, clancy..etc
17:47.47Patlabor221yes
17:47.52stibniteyeah, irc too
17:47.57stibnitelove his work
17:48.04Patlabor221they are named after SF authors
17:48.10Patlabor221it's there idiom
17:48.58stibniteare you calling me names?
17:49.07Patlabor221nope :)
17:49.28stibnitehaha, why use parenthetically instead of () ?
17:49.30Bagheeranot me, but i can if you need a little ego peppering
17:49.37stibnitehehe Bagheera
17:49.57Patlabor221~dict idiom
17:50.24Patlabor221aka: Thingy
17:50.34Mayhemyou can spell idiom, but not their? :p
17:51.05Patlabor221depends how fast I type, the spellchecker doesn't get them all
17:51.40Bagheerahey dont start getting picky, you still owe us $20 for the "dancers"
17:51.54MayhemNo way, i was here the whole time ;)
17:52.17MayhemWhat did they do with that chicken Pat?
17:52.31Patlabor221you'd have to see the video
17:52.45Patlabor221it's far to funny to describe
17:54.04Bagheerawe still have to get releases from JB and learner, but lets just say that girls gone wild videos have nothing on them and a chicken
17:55.14Patlabor221huh? what were you watching? They just cooked it. bit ot rosemary and lime.
17:55.33Bagheera...and so the tables turn
17:56.03TyroneFHornighWhen did I sign up to release a chicken?
17:57.22Bagheeraafter the flaming peanut butter.....
17:57.55TyroneFHornighScorched feathers everywhere...
17:58.30Bagheeradont you remember the Spanish beauty Rosemary ConSwalla Roderiquz
17:58.54TyroneFHornighNot under that spelling
17:59.13Bagheerayeah, she gave you her card, I was just guessing
18:00.15Bagheeranow that asian beauty Li Me was the real feature of the whole thing
18:01.55Patlabor221there is a layout?
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18:22.57BagheeraGod aben
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18:24.20[dmp]good monkey? :)
18:24.28BagheeraGod dag, then
18:24.58[dmp]No its evening..Just a funny typo. "Aften" :)
18:25.21Bagheeranot a typo, ignorance
18:25.36Bagheeranothing new there
18:28.29PoorMonkey:)
18:28.48ChickenMonkeyIt's monkey day on #bzflag
18:29.09PoorMonkeyooka ooka
18:29.35ChickenMonkeyBuck, buck, ooka, ooka
18:30.20PoorMonkeybuck, ooka, yieeeek, yieeeek, pamela andersen, ooka, buck
18:30.40ChickenMonkeyMonkeying around with Pamela again?
18:31.04PoorMonkeyits infectious
18:31.31ChickenMonkeyWatch out for those monkey infections, they can wipe out everyone.
18:31.55PoorMonkeyibot ooka ooka
18:31.57PoorMonkey: i don't know
18:32.43PoorMonkeywhat would be very humurous is if ibot could learn to change its name during one of these episodes
18:32.49ChickenMonkeyibot: ooka ooka is <reply> scratches her armpits
18:32.50ChickenMonkey: okay
18:32.56ChickenMonkeyibot ooka ooka
18:32.57scratches her armpits
18:33.03SchoolMonkey<action>
18:33.07PoorMonkeylol
18:33.19MonkeyShineooo oo eee ee aaha aaah
18:33.25ChickenMonkeyFeel free to change it ;)
18:33.57ChickenMonkeyooo oo eee eee aah aah tooki tooki
18:34.04MonkeyShine~ooka ooka
18:34.06ACTION scratches her armpits
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18:34.30ChickenMonkeyLook out for the monkeys.
18:34.43HorNeti see
18:34.46HorNetim one too
18:34.49PoorMonkeythey'll still your honey
18:34.57PoorMonkeysteal, that is
18:35.01HorNetwell,im not a monkey
18:35.10HorNetbut im a panther :)
18:35.17ChickenMonkeyI thought distilling the honey was a pretty good idea. ;)
18:35.20HorNetsnow_panther
18:35.49MonkeyShine~fling at HorNet
18:35.52ACTION flings poo at HorNet
18:36.39PoorMonkey~fling at Hornet
18:36.41ACTION flings poo at Hornet
18:37.36PoorMonkeyoooka oooka, yieeeeek yieeeek
18:37.49MonkeyShineoo oo aah aah
18:44.45PoorMonkeygah
18:44.45*** join/#bzflag |tim| (~tim@209-102-175-60.coastalnow.net)
18:44.51PoorMonkey~fling at |tim|
18:44.54ACTION flings poo at |tim|
18:45.04|tim|lol
18:46.55*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-20-58.dialup.tiscali.it)
18:46.57MonkeyShineare there any slackware bzflag players in here?
18:47.07MonkeyShineibot, fling at Tupone
18:47.09ACTION flings poo at Tupone
18:47.24Tuponehi Monk:
18:47.40Tuponeto much Monkey
18:47.43Tupones
18:48.13TuponeMonkeyShine: why are you asking?
18:49.04Tuponeisn't just GNU/Linux
18:58.19MonkeyShinePoorMonkey: is that observer bug still a problem?
18:58.23MonkeyShinewhich client?
18:58.36MonkeyShine"works for me" :)
18:58.42PoorMonkey1.9.7, and I havent tried it since it was reported
18:59.47MonkeyShinewhich client?
18:59.59PoorMonkeyjust gave it a shot on "learners" server.....it did the same thing in roaming mode
19:00.30PoorMonkey1.9.7.Beta.20031013
19:00.48MonkeyShinelinux, os x, windows, ... ?
19:00.56PoorMonkeywindows xp pro
19:01.10MonkeyShineah good..
19:01.26MonkeyShine:)
19:03.52MonkeyShinewhat do you mean, when you say "wildly out of control"?
19:04.25MonkeyShinethere is a feature/issue of if you release the modifier before releasing the arrow, the event repeats without stopping so the camera keeps moving
19:04.28PoorMonkeyit starts off in one direction and keeps going, past the map boundaries and further
19:04.56MonkeyShineI think that's a feature, unless it does it "wildly"/uncontrollably fast
19:05.12PoorMonkeyits a poo feature then
19:05.26MonkeyShineI'd probably agree
19:05.35PoorMonkeyyou can't tilt the camera up and down either....unless there is another key combination
19:05.48HorNet~seen Nidhoggr
19:05.49nidhoggr is currently on #bzflag (1h 22m 24s)
19:05.49MonkeyShineer, you can/should be able to do that
19:06.06PoorMonkeynope
19:06.12*** join/#bzflag mikep (~mikep@adsl-68-78-98-163.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
19:06.16PoorMonkeymissed him
19:06.20PoorMonkeyhere he comes again
19:06.29PoorMonkeynow
19:06.42PoorMonkey~fling at HorNet
19:06.44ACTION flings poo at HorNet
19:07.16TuponeTo tilt I use Ctrl up/down
19:07.16PoorMonkeyooka, ooka, yikkkkkkeeeeeeeeee, yieeeeeeeeeeek
19:07.37MonkeyShineI think he likes it.. we've yet to rise a response
19:07.54MonkeyShineI also use ctrl-up/down
19:08.00PoorMonkeymaybe it was turn, not tilt...hold on
19:08.29*** join/#bzflag jolly (~k@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com)
19:08.35*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (~revol@ALyon-209-1-3-16.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
19:08.52TuponeMonkeyShine: Are they eatable?
19:09.01MonkeyShinehehe
19:09.03*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com)
19:09.12MonkeyShineer, .. if you .. want .. sure go ahead
19:09.22*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
19:09.34MonkeyShinePoorMonkey: the movement should stop once you hit any arrow key
19:09.40MonkeyShinedoes it?
19:10.06PoorMonkeysometimes, sometimes it goes infinite in the direction I click...hmmm
19:10.25MonkeyShineTimRiker: what's left to do that is necessary?
19:10.54PoorMonkeyno, definitely not, it does not stop on a single arrow key press
19:11.02MonkeyShineibot, fling at TimRiker
19:11.05ACTION flings poo at TimRiker
19:11.14TimRikerjust stability. I'm working on auto debian builds
19:11.21MonkeyShinePoorMonkey, that'd probably be a bug then.. hrmph
19:11.32HorNet~Big Barrel
19:11.33i guess big barrel is a big butt!
19:12.02HorNet~PoorMonkey
19:12.13TuponePoorMonkey: I suppose you can stop with Alt-arrow
19:12.28MonkeyShineis hornet carny or bb?
19:13.09HorNetneither
19:13.33PoorMonkeyyes, but it does not seem repeatable, sometimes it works sometimes it does not
19:13.44MonkeyShinehrm.
19:14.43PoorMonkeyooooooooooooka, ooka, oooooka, ooooka, buck, nut
19:14.56MonkeyShineaah.. legs!
19:15.07MonkeyShinewhy are you being so quiet?!
19:16.18PoorMonkeyhmm, it does not seem to go into "infinite pan" mode consistently
19:16.22Quolif anyone is interested, I am playing on my all high speed server, and anyone is welcome. :)
19:16.40PoorMonkey~fling at Quol
19:16.42ACTION flings poo at Quol
19:16.53SpiffHey Quol.. your map is coming along.. :)
19:16.54PoorMonkey:)
19:17.14TuponePoorMonkey: To me the sequence is Press Ctrl - Press Arrow - Release Ctrl - Releas Arrow
19:17.16SpiffSlowly but surely.  I've got a couple of buildings.. a sorta watch tower.. etc.  Looks kinda like a concentration camp... ;)  LoL
19:18.19*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-117.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)
19:18.54PoorMonkeyok, so I do the ctrl-arrow bit, everything is fine, then i press alt+arrow, and it goes immediately into infinite pan mode
19:19.54PoorMonkeyI think MAC indicated that it was not the initial movement, but the next key press
19:19.57Spiff;)
19:20.10MonkeyShineibot, fling at Noodleman
19:20.15ACTION flings poo at Noodleman
19:20.31PoorMonkey~fling at Noodleman
19:20.33ACTION flings poo at Noodleman
19:20.37SpiffOkies.. someone's discovered a new action for the bot. :P
19:20.43SpiffYou boys need to get out more. :)
19:21.07PoorMonkeyoooka, ooka, yieeeeeeeeek, yieekkkkk, go get a job you young monkey
19:21.25SpiffCan't get a job.. I've got a girl to spend time with. ;)
19:22.39PoorMonkeymonkey - job = ~girl, monkey + job = |girl|+bananas
19:23.43PoorMonkeymonkey + girl = no bananas+work
19:24.05PoorMonkey(monkey+girl)+girl = work
19:24.31SpiffSomeone is in the habbit of over-anylizing life, I see. :)
19:24.35PoorMonkey(monkey+girl)-girl = 0.5 bananas + work - girl
19:24.54PoorMonkey(monkey+girl)-girl = 0.5 bananas + 2xwork - girl
19:26.33TuponeTimRiker: should I remove -requireudp
19:32.46HorNetwho gave away my callsign?
19:33.20HorNetspppiiiffffffff? : )
19:35.17SpiffHuh?
19:35.25*** join/#bzflag brlcad (~sean@hops.cs.jhu.edu)
19:35.39*** join/#bzflag brlcad (~sean@hops.cs.jhu.edu)
19:35.48SpiffUh oh.. that evil brlcad dude. :P
19:36.02*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se)
19:36.11brlcadOh oh, my network just dropped out on me!  grr
19:39.38ChickenMonkey~fling at brlcad
19:39.42ACTION flings poo at brlcad
19:41.21ChickenMonkey~ooka ooka
19:41.22ACTION scratches her armpits
19:43.25brlcadbastards won't answer the phone now
19:43.44ChickenMonkeyProbably overloaded the phones too ;)
19:44.39ChickenMonkeyMaybe we should add a PF flag?
19:44.42brlcadcomcast can kiss my furry poo producing rear end
19:44.55*** join/#bzflag learner (sean@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
19:44.57*** mode/#bzflag [+o learner] by ChanServ
19:45.02brlcadha
19:45.02brlcadwee
19:45.09brlcadgo me :)
19:45.34BeerMonkey~flings at learner
19:45.59BeerMonkey:(
19:46.01ChickenMonkeyThe panther is having a hard time being a monkey.
19:46.18ChickenMonkey~fling at BeerMonkey
19:46.21ACTION flings poo at BeerMonkey
19:46.23*** join/#bzflag brlcad (sean@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net)
19:46.49brlcadhard time?
19:47.27KingLouisoooh hoo hoo
19:48.10KingLouisAlthough King Louis was really an ape and king of the monkeys. ;)
19:49.15FatPantheryoyo is now himself, all is right with the world
19:49.42KingLouisHe has his ups and downs.
19:49.58CourtJesterTupone, is patch [ 793082 ] "robot player - useful for debugging" applied?
19:50.10*** join/#bzflag nikt (nikt@sf245.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
19:51.03*** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
19:53.03HorNetwhy the flinging of poo?
19:53.33KRbig ole 'naners, loads and loads of 'naners, but none for the poo slingers...
19:54.35HorNet~me stings the King Louis's royal hind
19:54.40brlcadsuch creativly opaque and uninteresting nicks
19:54.50HorNetthere
19:55.02HorNet~d
19:55.15brlcadwe have enough for the whole alphabet at this rate
19:56.08FatPantherbummer
19:56.53KingLouisoops, must have hit Noodle, my bad.
19:57.03*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-117.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)
19:57.33*** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-117.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)
19:57.33brlcadaww look, you done and hit noodle in his noodle again
19:57.39FatPantherpoor Noodle, must be one of those days
19:57.56KingLouisThat one wasn't me, check the HorNet for evidence. ;)
19:58.28FatPantherall i know is that someone owes me $20 for the "dancers"
19:59.04TimRikerTupone: no. it's still valid for an admin to support only udp clients.
19:59.26brlcadTimRiker: so what's the plan?
19:59.34TimRikerTupone: client/server should always try to do UDP, but server can kick clients that fail.
19:59.56brlcadcan we release once this udp/tcp fw issue is resolved?  is there an issue?
20:00.34Quolcan I install a 1.9 server now? or is it still to early in the beta status?
20:00.45Quolwill much change I mean - and often
20:00.54HorNetthere is now
20:01.03HorNeta welt from a sting
20:01.09brlcadQuol, there will probably be a flurry of patches once 1.10 is released
20:01.18KingLouisThere are several 1.9 servers around. check with brlcad about auto-update.
20:01.19HorNetand i guess this a great place for a nest
20:01.34Quolbrlcad: Ok - I will wait then..
20:01.59brlcador, yes.. you could do what I do and make sure you are always up to date automatically :)
20:02.29QuolI don't know if I would like to watch that mess HorNet
20:02.32KingLouisQuol: Thanksh, but I'm doing fine, hic hic
20:02.39TimRikerbrlcad: the udp code in there now should work. this is just release cleanup.
20:02.47Quolno prob KingLouis - always trying to help
20:03.19TimRikerI do not anticipate a "flurry of patches".
20:03.25brlcadhow much cleanup do we need?  what can I work on?
20:03.33brlcadto help speed along a release, that is
20:03.34HorNetwith a bunch of green flavor
20:03.39QuolTimRiker: what was the issue with UDP - and is this the NAT issue that was reported?
20:03.41TimRikerI think we will do a 1.10.1 etc if needed.
20:04.08*** join/#bzflag |tim| (~tim@209-102-175-60.coastalnow.net)
20:04.12brlcadis the TODO bug regard NAT and udp fixed?
20:04.56HorNetcya
20:04.58*** part/#bzflag HorNet (~mikep@adsl-68-78-98-163.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
20:05.10TimRikerQuol: what timeframe? the current stuff went in on the 12th.
20:05.35Quolit think people were talking abou it last night - if I am not mistaken
20:05.45Quolmaybe I am wrong thougjh
20:07.00CIA03timriker * 12bzflag/ (TODO): ws
20:07.21TimRikerQuol: brlcad: the NAT stuff in the TODO seems to be fine. I've not heard any recent issues.
20:09.11Quolhey - i am up to number 12 on the CTF ladder - how did that happen, I have been playing like crap lately?? :
20:09.13Quol:)
20:09.53CIA03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (TODO): Tim said it seems to be fine.  Good enough for me.
20:10.29brlcadhas anyone else been playing? :)
20:10.59Quollol - thanks learner, always trying to help my spirits - or depression, one or the other :)
20:11.23Patlabor221is it time for a new testing build?
20:11.55Quolthe reason I was surprised is that the last time I checked the lader, I was in the 20ies, and I haven't checked in a coupld of months - was expecting it to be lower - that's all
20:12.13TuponeCour: no that's not
20:12.44TuponeCourt: that patch is not applied, and now it should modified to work
20:13.04Quol!d
20:13.06Quoloops
20:13.09Quol~d
20:13.58Tuponebrlcad: I was responding to your question. you got
20:14.15brlcadyea, I figured it out :)
20:14.55OyPatlabor221, not sure, have many things changed?
20:15.17Patlabor221well if Tim fixed the network issues
20:15.28Patlabor221heh
20:15.35brlcadmac client has changed 'a little' and a few bugs were fixed
20:15.37Oy....someone was playing around with thief last night....
20:16.03TuponeTimRiker: I was meaning that -requireudp should be always on. New client always talk udp and tcp, so we could remove and just say requireudp=true.
20:16.03Veylearner was making it be a little more compatible and MrAC was undoing learner's changes.
20:16.05Oysome good things came out of that
20:17.11brlcadyes.. mac insists that to counter the fact that GM is so powerful, he must make a flag that is even more powerful
20:17.26brlcador at least as powerful, in a sense
20:17.42Oyi like the fact that the flag is a one time use flag now....
20:17.49Oyor is it?
20:18.02brlcadit is, but it still needs to cause a reload once dropped
20:18.10VeyTH is a little too much on brlcad's server. Everyone just goes for jumping, or if someone else has jumping then they go for thief. It gets a bit tiresome.
20:19.02Oyand wasnt there some talk of limiting lasers range to help with large maps?
20:20.38brlcadhrm.. from away to .. away
20:21.06VeySome people just like to change their nicks every couple of hours. ;)
20:21.07brlcadthere was also talk of reducing gm's range
20:21.46brlcadand perhaps requiring that the lock is maintained
20:24.37brlcad:)
20:24.49Patlabor221there are new ones
20:29.15Patlabor221Tupone, it's ok man, you coulda stayed :)
20:29.33Tuponethanx!
20:29.42brlcadheh
20:30.20Patlabor221tho it is a channel full of ops, that must be scary
20:30.31Patlabor221least it's not #bantastic
20:30.40Tuponebrlcad: I see on your server, flag are into the base. Its correct
20:30.45Tupone?
20:30.47VeyJust hang out there for a while, maybe you'll be an op too ;)
20:31.35brlcadTupone: *shrugh* I thought it was a bug myself too :)
20:31.48*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-20-58.dialup.tiscali.it)
20:36.11*** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se)
20:36.11*** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ
20:39.25Oyand the number of Ops grows.....soon it will be hip to be Non-Op
20:39.49brlcadwhat non-op is hip?!
20:39.52*** mode/#bzflag [-o brlcad] by brlcad
20:40.38OyH.Lewis and the News flashback
20:40.54VeyI'm a non-op and I don't want to break a hip. :)
20:41.26*** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by larsl
20:41.27Oyso what is the judgement on the Observer mode, its not unusable, but it is not right
20:41.32larslHaha, you can't escape. =)
20:42.14brlcadheh
20:42.25VeyWhere have I heard that before?
20:43.35TimRikerstill don't support server-client udp when client->server udp is not there, but that's not important for this release
20:44.18TuponeOK! I just wanted to remove unused option. So .. nothing
20:54.02*** join/#bzflag creeperz_ (~creeperz@host-11-76-220-24.midco.net)
20:59.08Oyalmost time for the little green men to arrive....
21:07.10*** join/#bzflag Noodleman_ (~tuckerm@adsl-66-72-30-117.dsl.kntpin.ameritech.net)
21:19.39Nidhoggrgrand opening of our new work facility thursday. things are nuts around here.
21:20.52FoundItgrand opening of our new Apple Store on Friday. Are you giving stuff away too?
21:21.24LostMentalStateFREE STUFF, WHERE?
21:21.58FoundItThe other side of the country, often known as the left coast. It's about 3 miles from where I live. ;)
21:22.05Nidhoggrwe are having a big party.
21:22.59LostMentalStateFREE FOOD, WHERE?....since the left coast is not far enough to the right
21:23.15Nidhoggrarizona :)
21:23.30FoundItnot quite as far as the left coast. ;)
21:23.41LostMentalStateok, so, no free stuff for me.
21:23.56FoundItslacker.
21:24.29LostMentalStatehey, its safeway food sample day, and its almost time for dinner
21:24.32*** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-20-58.dialup.tiscali.it)
21:24.44LostMentalStatebite size little pizzas....yummy
21:25.04LostMentalStateand the wine store down the street is having a free sample session.....
21:25.41FoundItwe have all the safeway/Vons employees striking in the street around here.
21:26.03Nidhoggrwe'll probably start seeing that in the beginning of november.
21:26.26Bagheeratee hee
21:26.31OldWinohope i dont see it here, its the only grocery on the Island....welll
21:26.50*** join/#bzflag Legolas (~topgunp38@adsl-68-78-98-163.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
21:26.55OldWinonot unless you count the store on the corner, it has a little old world charm to it
21:27.03OldWinoie rats
21:29.32Legolas~d
21:29.52Legolas~seen brnclad
21:29.54Legolas: i haven't seen 'brnclad'
21:29.59Legolasoops
21:30.01MonkeyMayhem~seen brlcad
21:30.02brlcad <sean@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #project24, 34m 32s ago, saying: 'er, shweet'.
21:30.07Legolasthanks
21:30.38MayhemThe problem is, learner is a man of many aliases...
21:30.41Legolaswhy poo?
21:30.46Patlabor221what is with you all and poo?
21:30.46Legolasi know
21:30.51MayhemCause thats what monkeys do
21:31.01Patlabor221learner is a man?!?! :)
21:31.04Mayhem~fling Patlabor221
21:31.12OldWinoare you sure, Pat?
21:31.14Patlabor221doesn't mean you are a monkey
21:31.16Mayhemawww
21:31.30Patlabor221no poo for you
21:31.49OldWinohave you ever seeeeen learner?  he could be a smart ape.
21:31.52Mayhemum, darn... I think
21:32.23StealerOfNicksI believe he went home, so he should be here later.
21:32.27Legolas~seen Chikorita
21:32.28chikorita <~Chikumz33@205.197.172.230> was last seen on IRC in channel #botpark, 23h 20m 17s ago, saying: 'if i bot is female '.
21:32.49Mayhem~seen greg
21:32.49i haven't seen 'greg', Mayhem
21:33.02Mayhemhmm, looks like you're out of luck Legolas
21:33.24OldWinogo kick some poo on secretplace till they return
21:33.36Mayhemwait, chiko has been harrasing those bots a bit much
21:33.36Legolaslearner is on aim
21:33.53StealerOfNicksI often aim at learner
21:33.58Legolasbut cant get ahold of him
21:34.03OldWinoi aim and hit
21:34.13OldWinoit maybe his home machine there Leggy
21:34.17MayhemI'm gonna go anyway, another day guys
21:34.17LegolasAIM HAPPY?
21:34.22Legolasok
21:34.22StealerOfNicksI take what I can get, hitting seems to be beyond my abilities.
21:34.23Legolascya
21:34.27OldWinocya may, junehem
21:34.31Mayhem:p
21:34.37StealerOfNickscya
21:35.33Bagheeramy name is mine now StealerOfNicks, keep your hands off
21:35.56TyroneFHornighBagheera: Who are you talking to?
21:36.36BagheeraQuol's back, everybody keep quiet
21:36.44Quollol bags
21:36.53Bagheerayes, i am bored
21:37.01Quolhow R YA?
21:37.15TyroneFHornighBagheera: According to the irc stats, you're the StealerOfNicks. ;)
21:37.20*** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-115-158.hispeed.ch)
21:37.32Bagheerahahaha
21:38.18Bagheerai have almost caught learner
21:39.25Bagheera...i am also JBD...
21:39.36TyroneFHornighFilthy thief ;)
21:40.09Bagheerawe have forever messed bzgirls database up
21:40.25Quolohh? what did you do?
21:40.51Bagheerawe ants, have moved a rubber tree plant
21:41.26*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~orchid@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)
21:41.34Bagheerawow, what timing
21:41.39TyroneFHornighSpeak of the devil, hi bzg ;)
21:41.48Quolhey bzg - bags was jus saying how he screwed up your database :)
21:41.54Bagheerathat is eerie, and i am not talking about indiana
21:41.56bzgirlhe  did?
21:42.09bzgirli dont have a database that i know of
21:42.13Bagheerathe nick stats
21:42.19Bagheeraerr, irc nick stats
21:42.20TyroneFHornighThis lady has incredible timing. ;)
21:42.34bzgirloh, lemme check
21:42.36Bagheerai hear she makes an incredible turkey
21:42.42bzgirl:)
21:42.48TyroneFHornighBe nice, Bags. ;)
21:44.19bzgirllearners still in the nick-change lead
21:44.27bzgirlbut i could fix that :)
21:44.33Bagheerayeah, but i am coming up quick
21:45.33Bagheerabzgirl, do you get a ribbon or something for being in first place......i'd even take a leftover turkey sandwich?
21:46.03Bagheeraotherwise it is cheetos and beer tonight....
21:46.21bzgirlthere is a prize awarded at the end of the year yes
21:46.36Bagheerai can only imagine...hahaha
21:46.52TyroneFHornighI would be afraid to imagine. ;)
21:47.21Quolwhere is this list?
21:47.30Bagheerahaha....ok, time to go home, my mind is getting tired, which implies that the dogs are ready to be walked
21:47.39Bagheeracya
21:48.03bzgirlQuol: http://bzgirl.bakadigital.com/irc.html look for the most nicks
21:48.25bzgirlKR: poke
21:48.47TyroneFHornighYou must have received his memo.
21:49.24bzgirli did, how did you know?
21:49.26bzgirlheh
21:50.00TyroneFHornighHe was asking us to pass messages to you. So we took pity and taught him about memoserv. ;)
21:50.16KROW!!!!
21:50.29TyroneFHornighI warned you about that tiller.
21:50.30Quolthanks bzg - that's a nice looking report - what did you use to generate it?
21:50.45KRit does look good
21:50.51KRhi bzg :)
21:50.57bzgirlQuol: its psig, theres a linky at the bottom
21:51.00KRlong time no see your nick
21:51.06TyroneFHornighpisg
21:51.48QuolI like my random quote: "Your telling me..."
21:52.00bzgirlKR: ive been around irc, not played much though
21:52.04TyroneFHornighThat changes with every reload.
21:52.19bzgirlKR: now you know about memoserv :)
21:52.32QuolJB - I know, which is why i printed it - thought it was funny :)
21:52.35bzgirlKR: do you also know about lastlog?
21:54.54david_vthat was a new command for me :)
21:55.13KRnnope I don't :)
21:55.20KRIRC n00bie
21:55.26Quolbzg - my resolution is at 800x600, and your main site is HHHHUUUUUGGGGGEEE :)
21:55.31bzgirldavid_v: its a good way to find what KR has been saying about me :)
21:55.34Quolsorry - main page
21:55.40KRlol
21:55.40bzgirl<PROTECTED>
21:55.53KRthat was learner that said that
21:55.58KRi swear
21:56.02KRpromise
21:56.06KR:x
21:56.09bzgirl:)
21:56.31bzgirlQuol: my site is too big @800x600?
21:56.46Quolwell - you might want to try it out
21:56.53bzgirlQuol: i dont support that resolution :)
21:57.02Quolbzgirl: lol
21:57.03Quolha
21:57.20david_vbzgirl: guess so :)
21:57.30QuolI know - I am on e of the only ones left that uses it - probably one of the only ones that have a 14inch monitor also
21:57.58Quolsaving up to buy a plasma screen :) can't wai
21:58.00Quolwait
21:58.08bzgirlQuol: 800x600, Win98, 14in monitor...those were the days.. :)
21:58.54Quolat least I have upgraded to XP...
21:59.04Quolwell supertime - I will be back in a few hours...
21:59.18Quolsee ya'll later
22:00.52*** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au)
22:02.17TimRiker~message got Tupone -requireudp _is_ needed. do not take it out. it means the server will kick anyone not using udp. this is _different_ than telling the server to allow udp, which is always true.
22:02.26TimRiker~message for Tupone -requireudp _is_ needed. do not take it out. it means the server will kick anyone not using udp. this is _different_ than telling the server to allow udp, which is always true.
22:13.14*** part/#bzflag yoyox (nikt@sf245.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
22:18.56*** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp03995358pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net)
22:22.28*** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-58.sal.east.verizon.net)
22:28.14TyroneFHornigh~fling at Bagheera
22:28.17ACTION flings poo at Bagheera
22:28.58Bagheeragah
22:29.39Noodleman_don't open your mouth when somebody's flinging poo at you!
22:30.10TyroneFHornighEspecially a bot, they have good aim. ;)
22:30.15Noodleman_hehe
22:50.41*** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@204.91.206.33)
23:00.51learnerI see KR tried to blame me for the "wench" comment he made..
23:01.19TyroneFHornighOf course, he knew where he would find that tiller if the truth came out. ;)
23:09.02*** part/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com)
23:09.50Chikorita~kr
23:09.52i guess kr is KRazeeeee , dont get him angry because he is skeery when hes angry
23:09.58Chikoritaheehe
23:10.05Chikoritatis tru
23:10.25Chikoritaibot: botsnack skittle
23:10.25Chikorita: thanks
23:10.27Chikorita:)
23:10.29Chikorita~d
23:11.48Bagheeraeasy  on  those skittlews
23:11.52Bagheeraskittles
23:13.04Bagheeragah, gone
23:13.38TyroneFHornighNow Baggy is not only talking to the voices in his head, he's hitting them with a pillow.
23:14.43Bagheeraoy...not  the flash  of light again....noooooooo
23:25.55*** join/#bzflag bzgirl (~orchid@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca)
23:32.51*** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Bagheera@pool-162-84-20-58.sal.east.verizon.net)
23:36.00*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.202)
23:36.01*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ
23:37.06learnerit's like when the cows come home
23:37.22learnerslowly but surely, the arrive one by one
23:39.35Bagheeramooooooo
23:47.02*** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-119-161.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)
23:47.34Bagheeramooooooo
23:53.20*** join/#bzflag kr (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com)
23:53.26Bagheerajust dont try to milk me...you  might get  more than you expect
23:57.16Bagheeraoh yeah, free stuff
23:58.38Quolanyone up for some BZ?
23:58.51Quolsome crazy High Speed or something?
23:59.41BagheeraV is not my thing there buddy......killing away on hash presently

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