| 00:04.33 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@158.222.227.3) |
| 00:18.30 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (1000@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 00:25.28 | fiberchunks | bryjen: indeed, hardware manufacturers are very much to blame for the current state of things -- but I find it hard to believe that they can't reveal programming specs without revealing how their hardware works. More importantly though, it's the hardware im interested in, not their drivers (ala the 'it's the hardware stupid!' argument) |
| 00:26.54 | fiberchunks | I do believe that if ATI wanted Nvidias hardware so bad, they'd simply plunk down some covert resources and reverse engineer the thing (and then get sued anyway) -- I don't see how a software interface that makes developers lives easier (on all sides, not just open source), jeapordizes their products in any way. |
| 00:27.47 | fiberchunks | plus, I find myself only buying hardware these days that is (well, usually anyway), openly supportive of open source / alternative oses. |
| 00:28.37 | bryjen | Amen |
| 00:29.03 | bryjen | ;) |
| 00:36.59 | fiberchunks | I hope I'm not that bad, it just seems silly to me, and bad business practice |
| 00:37.27 | bryjen | Me too |
| 00:50.27 | fiberchunks | I just installed SuSe for my father, and it actually is a very nice *nix distro - I was quite impressed with the level of sophistication the installer has |
| 00:51.45 | fiberchunks | I think, with the exception of 2 things (net card driver selection / installation, and the 'expert' partition mode needing to be used), that even he could've handled it |
| 00:59.09 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (~~joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 01:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag hans (fugalh@byu074942wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 01:07.59 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-57.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 01:12.16 | *** join/#bzflag hans_ (fugalh@byu074942wks.rn.byu.edu) |
| 01:33.54 | *** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 01:33.58 | SGI | hello |
| 01:36.41 | SGI | helo hello |
| 01:36.46 | SGI | hi |
| 01:36.49 | SGI | good night |
| 01:37.00 | SGI | busy |
| 01:38.29 | SGI | more stuff to load in the installer |
| 01:38.46 | SGI | There is an error in the |
| 01:40.53 | SGI | I can gice to you to overwrite the installer |
| 01:41.50 | SGI | here |
| 01:41.57 | SGI | copy and paste |
| 01:42.24 | SGI | ;--------------Uninstaller Sections---------------- |
| 01:42.24 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.24 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.24 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.24 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.28 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.30 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.35 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.37 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.38 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.40 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.43 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.45 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.48 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.51 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.52 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.55 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:42.59 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.01 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.03 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.05 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.07 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.09 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.13 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.14 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.17 | SGI | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:43.20 | SGI | sorry |
| 01:43.23 | SGI | did a mistake ...paast in the wrong windows |
| 01:43.39 | DTRemenak | SGI: the /query window is already open, you don't need to flood #bzlfag |
| 01:43.51 | DTRemenak | s/bzlfag/bzflag |
| 01:45.26 | SGI | somebody want kill me now |
| 01:46.14 | SGI | they dont answer to you........... |
| 01:46.27 | SGI | sorry sorry |
| 01:46.53 | SGI | im banging my head (empty) with a baseball bat |
| 01:48.05 | gonkulator | hehehe |
| 01:48.21 | gonkulator | SGI: the only thing I shoot is cameras :) |
| 01:49.44 | SGI | camera be carefull |
| 01:50.23 | DTRemenak | wasn't there some cameraman in iraq that got shot 'cause the marines thought it was a grenade launcher or something? |
| 01:51.10 | SGI | and they blow up with a camera the guy in afganistan |
| 01:51.30 | SGI | btw change channel have you my email |
| 01:52.20 | SGI | change only the uninstall section...delete the old line |
| 01:54.15 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-244-193.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 01:54.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 01:57.53 | Patlabor221 | napathane works best |
| 01:58.15 | DTRemenak | don't have any just lying around |
| 01:58.26 | Patlabor221 | so make some |
| 01:59.36 | fiberchunks | fire helps if you need fire DTR ;) |
| 01:59.54 | fiberchunks | rubbing alcohol'll work too |
| 02:00.01 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz (~JBDiGriz@adsl-63-204-118-194.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 02:00.10 | Patlabor221 | fire: the first virus :) |
| 02:00.13 | SGI | gasoline,gasoline diesel........ |
| 02:00.24 | Patlabor221 | hair spray works too |
| 02:00.38 | SGI | to blow up your hands |
| 02:01.01 | SGI | try with nitro |
| 02:02.46 | SGI | how is it going there......ask to a fireman |
| 02:03.16 | DTRemenak | All I'm trying to do is boil some water, no need to blow anything up ... but that might be cool in the process |
| 02:04.01 | fiberchunks | a stove perhaps? :) |
| 02:05.03 | SGI | beer when i see the fiberchunks name ......im thinking to go downstairs and open a beeer |
| 02:05.09 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's what I was trying...but the damn electric ignition wasn't working |
| 02:05.17 | DTRemenak | a file did the trick |
| 02:05.27 | fiberchunks | ah, dirty contacts? |
| 02:06.04 | DTRemenak | corroded |
| 02:07.58 | SGI | im going to open an new account in souceforge |
| 02:08.14 | Patlabor221 | for? |
| 02:08.35 | SGI | i dont remember the password and email |
| 02:08.50 | Patlabor221 | heh |
| 02:08.52 | SGI | and probably it was with the old email name |
| 02:09.28 | Patlabor221 | 10> PARTY |
| 02:09.38 | Patlabor221 | 20> GET "STARTED" |
| 02:09.44 | Patlabor221 | 30> GOTO 10 |
| 02:10.51 | TimRiker | SGI: still have an ssh key that works? you can create a file on the ssh server that confirms a request, and then contact SF folks on IRC to get them to reset the pwd. course if you have no ssh key, then you could not confirm that the account is yours. |
| 02:11.19 | SGI | it was a long time ago |
| 02:11.47 | SGI | I dont remember the email acount and etc |
| 02:12.06 | SGI | and i dont have anymore the old pc |
| 02:24.17 | *** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 02:27.39 | TimRiker | SGI: ah well. you might ask the SF folks to remove the dead account then. |
| 02:28.24 | SGI | yes im going too...if they believe me |
| 02:28.55 | SGI | you think they believe me |
| 02:29.01 | SGI | no |
| 02:29.42 | SGI | im there right now |
| 02:29.57 | SGI | what you think..to change my nick too |
| 02:30.23 | DTRemenak | If you ask them to remove the old one, you can sign back up with the same nick ;) |
| 02:32.21 | TimRiker | SGI: you are where right now? |
| 02:32.52 | SGI | in the office :o) |
| 02:33.49 | SGI | sorceforge sending submit for a support |
| 02:34.15 | TimRiker | ah |
| 02:34.22 | TimRiker | what was your id on sf? |
| 02:34.39 | SGI | sgi- |
| 02:36.22 | TimRiker | there is no sgi or sgi- home directory on sf from what I can see |
| 02:36.31 | SGI | and i wrote in bzflag ...SGI flag sgi- 0 2003-01-24 08:23 |
| 02:36.56 | SGI | check in the bzflag at |
| 02:36.58 | SGI | http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?max_rows=25&style=ultimate&offset=25&forum_id=9555 |
| 02:37.29 | SGI | you can recognize my sgienglish |
| 02:38.07 | SGI | SGI missile |
| 02:38.56 | DTRemenak | tim: the home dir is created at first shell server login |
| 02:39.13 | DTRemenak | if he never SSHed to sf.net, he never got a home dir |
| 02:39.37 | learner | woa, that's some paste there a few hours ago sgi :) |
| 02:39.57 | SGI | paste????? |
| 02:40.10 | learner | copy-paste flood |
| 02:40.21 | DTRemenak | SGI: that script you pasted in the wrong window :) |
| 02:40.31 | SGI | sorry |
| 02:40.32 | TimRiker | DTRemenak: yep. knew that... probably means he never setup ssh either. |
| 02:40.34 | SGI | so sorry |
| 02:40.37 | learner | hehe, funny |
| 02:40.51 | DTRemenak | probably |
| 02:41.05 | SGI | go it tim |
| 02:41.14 | SGI | i have the email |
| 02:41.46 | TimRiker | SGI: that means your email is current. have SF reset the pw and mail it to you. |
| 02:42.14 | SGI | yes more than one time |
| 02:42.35 | TimRiker | https://sourceforge.net/account/lostpw.php |
| 02:42.38 | SGI | but i dont have any email from sf |
| 02:42.59 | SGI | I did ....this morning too |
| 02:43.12 | TimRiker | check the header on the email I sent through SF to be sure you have the correct email address. |
| 02:43.58 | TimRiker | mine has: Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.206] helo=sc8-sf-mx1.sourceforge.net) |
| 02:43.58 | TimRiker | by phoenix.rikers.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) |
| 02:43.58 | TimRiker | id 19uk2S-0003Hc-00 |
| 02:43.58 | TimRiker | for <Tim@Rikers.org>; Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:40:00 -0600 |
| 02:44.20 | TimRiker | so that means SF has Tim@Rikers.org as my email. |
| 02:44.43 | TimRiker | might even be case sensitive for all I know. |
| 02:45.28 | TimRiker | well, headed home... |
| 02:47.03 | Patlabor221 | of what are you frustraited? |
| 02:47.24 | Patlabor221 | could it be the fact that you can't make a vector of refrences? |
| 02:47.47 | captain_proton | you think you're frustrated? i've been stuck on level 70 of frozen bubble for the last half hour |
| 02:47.53 | fiberchunks | LOL |
| 02:47.55 | captain_proton | and the music has me ready to pull scanline's hair out |
| 02:48.14 | Patlabor221 | frozen bubble? |
| 02:48.22 | captain_proton | snood clone |
| 02:48.23 | fiberchunks | linux game |
| 02:49.01 | learner | work, life, code |
| 02:49.15 | *** join/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 02:49.21 | learner | I'm in a rather violent mood actually |
| 02:49.31 | fiberchunks | oooo, let's do battle whitey |
| 02:49.46 | fiberchunks | I'll see your violent mood, and raise you 10 depression |
| 02:49.49 | captain_proton | and it has about 30 seconds of music that loops |
| 02:49.53 | captain_proton | |!&)(%&%^&#%&$^%^%^&*(#%&(*%&%&&*$^!@ |
| 02:49.59 | learner | I really could go for a good dirty fight right about now |
| 02:50.21 | fiberchunks | drive up about 8 hours north, I know a good bar we could toss people around in ;) |
| 02:50.30 | learner | tempting |
| 02:55.02 | captain_proton | i'd probably be fine if they let you turn off the music |
| 02:55.11 | Patlabor221 | so fix it :) |
| 02:55.32 | captain_proton | i'm angry at it now |
| 02:55.42 | Patlabor221 | so break it :) |
| 03:00.26 | JBDiGriz | I came here for an argument |
| 03:00.29 | SGI | i have a question |
| 03:00.58 | SGI | anyone heard about a tiny jump in bzflag |
| 03:01.14 | fiberchunks | yah, on chestals 1.9 ducati server |
| 03:01.23 | fiberchunks | where he increased the gravity to huge levels |
| 03:01.25 | SGI | im playing in the office and sometimes the tank jump |
| 03:01.45 | SGI | tiny jump |
| 03:02.21 | Patlabor221 | what version, what server? |
| 03:03.30 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (MAC@balt-209-163-100-113.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 03:03.31 | SGI | g2 |
| 03:03.53 | Patlabor221 | are the new gravity and world size values sent to the client when it querys a server in the list now? so that peopel will know what to expect. |
| 03:04.05 | Patlabor221 | g2 should allways jump nomral iirc |
| 03:04.11 | SGI | bzfs107e |
| 03:04.20 | MrApathyCream | Patlabor221, one would hope |
| 03:04.30 | Patlabor221 | hope is not enough in this game |
| 03:04.50 | SGI | i never saw in the internet a jump like that |
| 03:05.25 | Patlabor221 | it's not shown when you pick a server, just the same told stuff |
| 03:08.30 | *** join/#bzflag fishhead (~washme@12-226-219-161.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:09.56 | Patlabor221 | yay CDatabase finaly compiles :) |
| 03:13.10 | MrApathyCream | CXxxxx you MFC boy, you :) |
| 03:13.42 | Patlabor221 | naw, I didn't do the m_ stuff for the memembers |
| 03:13.53 | Patlabor221 | just things like info |
| 03:14.09 | Patlabor221 | I'm cuting back, just doing it for class and type defininions when I can |
| 03:14.37 | MrApathyCream | it's a worse habit to break than cigarettes |
| 03:14.52 | MrApathyCream | I have a tough time getting myself to stop m_ |
| 03:15.18 | Patlabor221 | I only do m_ now when I'm in a MFC plugin or somthing |
| 03:15.53 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): only jump on buildings if you're azimuth is roughly the same as your target vector |
| 03:17.03 | Patlabor221 | I just do tr or tv and stuff now on typedefs as well so I know what they are, when doing iterators and stuff. |
| 03:17.13 | fishhead | ya know |
| 03:17.18 | fishhead | I have never played bzflag |
| 03:17.22 | fishhead | never had time all these yrs |
| 03:17.24 | fishhead | I really should give it a go |
| 03:17.38 | MrApathyCream | and yet you have time for the chat room... interesting |
| 03:17.54 | Patlabor221 | I've even been good with my caps |
| 03:17.55 | Patlabor221 | tmDBRecordListrecords; |
| 03:17.55 | Patlabor221 | tmDBRecordIDMapidMap; |
| 03:17.55 | Patlabor221 | intlastID; |
| 03:17.55 | Patlabor221 | COSFilefile; |
| 03:17.55 | Patlabor221 | CLGETimetime; |
| 03:17.58 | fishhead | yeah because my body is falling apart |
| 03:17.58 | Patlabor221 | floatupdateTime; |
| 03:17.59 | Patlabor221 | floatlastUpdate; |
| 03:18.04 | fishhead | I have no energy for much else |
| 03:19.26 | MrApathyCream | ~fishslap sourceforge_sshcvs |
| 03:19.32 | | ACTION slaps sourceforge_sshcvs up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 03:19.32 | *** join/#bzflag HEINOLA (HEINOLA@63.98.3.137) |
| 03:20.33 | *** part/#bzflag HEINOLA (HEINOLA@63.98.3.137) |
| 03:23.54 | scanline | fishhead: funny that you have energy to talk about HD44780 LCDs all day but none to play a game :) |
| 03:24.30 | Patlabor221 | perhaps he needs generic viagra, I'm sure I can find him some info on where to get some |
| 03:25.00 | fishhead | hahaha |
| 03:25.02 | *** join/#bzflag MrAC (MAC@balt-209-163-100-139.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 03:25.06 | fishhead | OH SO YOU PLAY |
| 03:25.14 | fishhead | WELL THEN THAT SETTLES IT I WILL MAKE YOU MY BITCH |
| 03:25.19 | fishhead | once I have a working box |
| 03:25.27 | Patlabor221 | and the caps lock key |
| 03:25.35 | scanline | I don't really play bzflag, just hack at bzflag-related-stuff occasionally |
| 03:25.41 | fishhead | ah |
| 03:25.45 | MrAC | wow lost dns for a few moments |
| 03:25.53 | Patlabor221 | we keep him around for his whitty charms |
| 03:26.31 | fishhead | well I suspect another night of colon pyrotechnics |
| 03:26.33 | fishhead | someone kill me |
| 03:26.34 | fishhead | seriously |
| 03:27.06 | scanline | what part of you makes you think everyone on IRC wants to hear about your crappy LCDs and your colon? |
| 03:27.14 | fishhead | if it wasn't for microcontrollers and IGBJT's I would have no reason to live |
| 03:27.26 | gonkulator | fishhead: microcontrollers aren't real |
| 03:27.30 | fishhead | scanline I was trying to make my misery someone else's comic relief |
| 03:27.41 | gonkulator | just grossed me ourt |
| 03:27.43 | gonkulator | out even |
| 03:27.44 | MrApathyCream | keep your day job |
| 03:27.51 | fishhead | that sucks too |
| 03:28.30 | fishhead | so scanline |
| 03:28.37 | MrApathyCream | anyone available to play against Roger on xmission? I'd like to see him against humans |
| 03:28.38 | fishhead | is picogui somewhat usuable on a palm |
| 03:28.51 | MrApathyCream | (i realize he'll get his butt kicked, but i'd like to see what he does) |
| 03:29.18 | scanline | fishhead: ugh, does everyone and his dog have to ask me that? |
| 03:29.32 | scanline | NO, the only thing that works on a palm to any usable extent is PalmOS |
| 03:29.39 | scanline | now keep your damn PalmOS or buy a better PDA |
| 03:29.44 | fiberchunks | write a faq ;) |
| 03:29.45 | fishhead | HEY |
| 03:30.08 | fishhead | JUST BECAUSE YOUR GIRLFRIEND USED HER TEETH AGAIN IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR ME TO BE YOUR PUNCHING BAG |
| 03:30.11 | Patlabor221 | I will atempt to shoot your bot |
| 03:30.21 | MrApathyCream | tanka |
| 03:30.28 | Patlabor221 | perhaps you should calm it down there fishhead |
| 03:30.37 | gonkulator | Patlabor221: he doesn't "calm down" well |
| 03:30.46 | Patlabor221 | well he better |
| 03:30.51 | scanline | he just types in all caps until someone kickbans him |
| 03:30.51 | gonkulator | Patlabor221: he has two settings "annoying" and "off" |
| 03:31.07 | Patlabor221 | scanline has is right to an opinion, no need to be rude. |
| 03:31.24 | scanline | fishhead is an old friend of ours from #picogui.... |
| 03:31.37 | fishhead | yes I can calm down |
| 03:31.38 | gonkulator | yeah |
| 03:31.42 | fishhead | futurama is on |
| 03:31.48 | Patlabor221 | I gathered that :) |
| 03:31.49 | learner | i need to move my damn computer into the basement -- it's way to freaking hot in this room |
| 03:38.21 | *** part/#bzflag fishhead (~washme@12-226-219-161.client.attbi.com) |
| 03:40.11 | Patlabor221 | bot 2 is kicking ass |
| 03:42.01 | Patlabor221 | the bots TK, the bastards!!! |
| 03:45.03 | Patlabor221 | hmmm with 256k+ upstream I wonder how many I can run |
| 03:46.25 | Patlabor221 | you need to make them auto trash talk MAC, like "take off meatsack!!!" |
| 03:47.22 | SGI | the bots are runnig on xmissio |
| 03:47.28 | SGI | the name |
| 03:51.51 | Patlabor221 | aww I think I flooded my connection |
| 03:52.53 | learner | they are still rather predictable jumping-wise, but they are definately good enough for production utility |
| 03:53.17 | Patlabor221 | there, there should be 7 on now |
| 03:53.19 | learner | and they certainly do better with more shots (hence less strategy) |
| 03:53.46 | Patlabor221 | hmm 7 seems to kill me |
| 03:55.43 | Patlabor221 | hmm, need to make a culster of those suckers :) |
| 03:56.11 | Patlabor221 | I don't think BZ backgrounds nicely |
| 03:56.17 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (~Quol@modemcable052.11-203-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:56.59 | Quol | you there JB? |
| 03:57.28 | Quol | I just reliased that my article links were broken on the site - they should be fixed now... |
| 03:57.41 | learner | howdy jb -- how is/was the vacation? |
| 03:57.50 | learner | pfft! i'm going crazy |
| 03:57.55 | Quol | lol |
| 03:57.56 | learner | howdy QUOL! |
| 03:58.05 | Quol | nice one buddy |
| 03:58.13 | fiberchunks | hey quol |
| 03:58.13 | JBDiGriz | i went on vacation? cool. did i have fun? |
| 03:58.15 | learner | frustrating day |
| 03:58.27 | fiberchunks | of course you did - but the kids drove you mad :) |
| 03:58.29 | learner | jb: you had lots of fun -- you got very very drunk, that's all |
| 03:58.31 | Quol | it was great - it was really great to not even think a little bit about work |
| 03:59.04 | Quol | just got back a couple hours ago... |
| 03:59.15 | MrApathyCream | yes, there should be code added to avoid buillets other than by jumping |
| 03:59.21 | Quol | will go to bed soon as my head is spinning from driving 14 hours straight |
| 03:59.23 | MrApathyCream | but that involves scratching my head and stuff |
| 03:59.23 | fiberchunks | hey quol, can I harass you bout some bandwidth statistics for a minute? |
| 03:59.41 | Quol | sure - shoot |
| 04:00.16 | Quol | ~whaleslap learner |
| 04:00.33 | Patlabor221 | that's illegal |
| 04:00.34 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 04:00.37 | Patlabor221 | whales are endangerd |
| 04:00.41 | learner | ~whaleslap quol |
| 04:00.41 | | ibot slaps Quol upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale |
| 04:00.54 | learner | ibot obeyeth my commandeth |
| 04:00.55 | | learner: bugger all, i dunno |
| 04:01.03 | fiberchunks | do you have any idea what (on average), a site that serves just static html pages would be per month with approx 1000 hits per day, and b) what a good conservative monthly allowance for another site that serves mp3s (same hit rate, about 50 mp3 ~5 MB each) would be? |
| 04:01.03 | learner | that's a good botty |
| 04:01.39 | fiberchunks | sorry, upstream and downstream bandwidth usage is what I'm trying to figure out |
| 04:01.54 | Quol | well - downstream will be heavy for MP3 |
| 04:02.09 | Quol | static html though - what sort of pages - big images? |
| 04:02.13 | fiberchunks | about 6 of my buddies want to go in on a hosting plan that I would manage, and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what type of plan I should get |
| 04:02.31 | fiberchunks | nah, on average around 10k / page, 100 pages per site max |
| 04:03.10 | Quol | well - in that case, each hit would be 10K for the static pages |
| 04:03.29 | Quol | that is your upload |
| 04:03.32 | Patlabor221 | just multiply out fiber :) |
| 04:04.12 | Quol | your download would be minimal assuming that you aren't using the link for anything else |
| 04:04.23 | fiberchunks | that is far too much math for me to handle -- I guess more generally -- with those requirements, would it be OK (i.e. not exceed my monthly allowance) if I got a 100G / month allowance? |
| 04:04.47 | fiberchunks | do they normally count ftps to the site in the monthly allowance? |
| 04:04.53 | fiberchunks | i.e. site building and what not? |
| 04:05.06 | Patlabor221 | transfer is transfer |
| 04:05.29 | fiberchunks | gotcha, I'm new to all this, so I don't know how they calculate things |
| 04:05.35 | Quol | 10K * 100 pages = 1000K, 1000K * 1000 hits = 1000000K |
| 04:05.52 | fiberchunks | 1 G per day then? |
| 04:06.00 | Patlabor221 | and if they donwload 1000 mp3s per day that's another 5 gigs a day |
| 04:06.05 | Quol | that would be max though |
| 04:06.06 | Patlabor221 | so 6 gigs a day |
| 04:06.16 | fiberchunks | 180 G / month -- jeez |
| 04:06.25 | Patlabor221 | or more or less |
| 04:06.27 | fiberchunks | but that is conservative, so that's cool |
| 04:06.28 | Quol | assuming that all 100 hits browse every page of your site |
| 04:06.31 | Patlabor221 | but based on those numbers |
| 04:06.33 | fiberchunks | right |
| 04:06.46 | Quol | sorry forgot a zero there |
| 04:07.07 | Patlabor221 | there will be some http negotiaion overhead too but it shoudl be small |
| 04:07.07 | fiberchunks | as I only really looked at the 50-100G per month ones |
| 04:07.16 | fiberchunks | right |
| 04:07.32 | Quol | but if users start downloading things - like MP3's |
| 04:07.37 | Quol | that will skyrickit |
| 04:07.39 | fiberchunks | and the pages are based on complex table layouts rather than css+xhtml |
| 04:07.43 | Quol | *rockit* |
| 04:07.46 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 04:08.25 | Quol | the page layout shouldn't matter much as that is client rendered |
| 04:08.28 | fiberchunks | k, so now the question becomes: do any of you know of a great host with shell access that is hosted on linux? |
| 04:08.30 | Patlabor221 | all you can do is figure out what will probably be hit a day, and then add up the size |
| 04:08.43 | fiberchunks | indeed, but the page has to get there first |
| 04:09.21 | Quol | right - but if each page is 10K - then whether it has a seperate style sheet or not doesn't really matter |
| 04:09.50 | Quol | one thing to consider though is that the style sheet will be cashed onthe client end |
| 04:10.08 | Patlabor221 | but if the style sheet is a K or 2 it's not much |
| 04:10.12 | Quol | you might be able to strip out some characters from the HTML/ page and call the stylesheet |
| 04:11.31 | Patlabor221 | shaving a k off each dl only saves you a meg per 1000 DLs |
| 04:11.35 | Quol | but that's minimal |
| 04:11.35 | fiberchunks | right, that's the idea -- I've found through some research that besides being more accessible, CSS+xhtml cuts html page overhead by about 50% -- according to the gurus, not me |
| 04:11.35 | fiberchunks | that's why I was planning on 10k per page -- based on _table_ layout, not xhtml+css |
| 04:12.09 | Patlabor221 | ok so it's down to 5 k a page, so your using 5 megs a day, instead of 10 |
| 04:12.12 | fiberchunks | hey, it's a M, and a savings is a savings, so I'm happy |
| 04:12.25 | Patlabor221 | if your that close to your limit, your screwed |
| 04:12.37 | Patlabor221 | it's those MP3's that'll kill ya |
| 04:12.59 | Patlabor221 | yeah MP3 is like a day of page downloads for you. |
| 04:14.15 | fiberchunks | yeah, but they have to be hosted as it will be a 'primary' focus for one site (a musician) |
| 04:14.43 | *** part/#bzflag SGI (~SGI@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 04:14.52 | fiberchunks | I may just have it be a download a preview, and then like 50 cents for the full thang, dunno yet |
| 04:14.59 | Patlabor221 | that would be my worry at the the moment, that's gonna be 95% of your bandwith |
| 04:15.12 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 04:15.14 | Patlabor221 | 1rst rule of optimisation, get the big things. |
| 04:15.19 | Quol | i was thinking about doing that myself fiberchunks :) - put my own music up there for others to listen to and say - "that sucks" :) (not that your freinds does :) |
| 04:15.40 | fiberchunks | there are some that do, some that don't -- isn't that always the way :) |
| 04:15.40 | Patlabor221 | you could split it up fiber |
| 04:15.46 | fiberchunks | split what up? |
| 04:15.51 | fiberchunks | gimme an idea |
| 04:16.00 | JBDiGriz | fiber's friend probably thinks we have no musical taste at this point. |
| 04:16.04 | Patlabor221 | put the pages on your keen linux server, and put the MP3's just on some unmetered windows server. |
| 04:16.17 | Patlabor221 | just for file storage |
| 04:16.57 | fiberchunks | no, actually, he was very receptive, and very happy to hear that people liked the tunes, and is highly open to constructive criticism -- if you want to toss em off to your friends and give me feedback, that would be phenomenal :) |
| 04:17.02 | MrApathyCream | Roger should also be smarter about flags... He only knows about a few (SB) (OO) (PZ) |
| 04:17.08 | Patlabor221 | like the readyhosting that does 100$ for the first 500 megs, and 50$ a year for every other. |
| 04:17.27 | Quol | what style of music fiberchunks |
| 04:17.28 | fiberchunks | hrm... |
| 04:17.41 | CIA | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): don't get right on the opponent |
| 04:18.05 | JBDiGriz | I called it sort of bluesy rock with a bit too much drum. |
| 04:18.08 | Patlabor221 | cus for the MP3 transfer you may not need all the bells and wissles of a full keen linux server. |
| 04:18.25 | fiberchunks | kind of a blues / folk feel I guess you could call it, with a little edge -- the tracks that jb and learner have listened to thus far are not mastered, just flat mixes, so the levels are all messed up, and the drums were really just timekeeping for the guitar |
| 04:18.40 | fiberchunks | jb, I was trying to remember what you said :) |
| 04:19.25 | fiberchunks | perhaps, I dunno -- it depends on how he wants to serve them, and what kind of services he wants to provide along with the mp3s -- it's stuff we haven't really thought about in much detail |
| 04:19.57 | Patlabor221 | yeah, if you wanted to make them like have an account or something then puting it all on the same server is benifical |
| 04:20.14 | Patlabor221 | but if it's just flat file server then it may be an option |
| 04:20.41 | Patlabor221 | then you get a littl 30-40 gig a month site for the pages |
| 04:20.41 | fiberchunks | that and management / reliability -- a couple of my buds have their own business sites that they want me to manage, so the static pages too need preferably 3 nines reliability |
| 04:20.51 | Patlabor221 | and if they go over it's by a gig or 2 not by 100 or 200 |
| 04:20.52 | JBDiGriz | I'd have to go back to the logs to find my actual comments. I remember that the ending had problems on one, and the other had a rap in there that was annoying. |
| 04:20.53 | fiberchunks | right, as long as it's reliable |
| 04:21.08 | fiberchunks | yes, the rap is a major source of contention |
| 04:21.18 | Patlabor221 | i've never had a problem with them that wasn't my fault |
| 04:21.33 | Patlabor221 | for over 2 years now |
| 04:21.41 | fiberchunks | I've been bashing him around trying to get him to axe it, or at least redo it in a spoken style that more suits the song |
| 04:32.21 | fiberchunks | ping? |
| 04:33.04 | Quol | ding |
| 04:33.54 | Quol | well guys - do you hear that sound? |
| 04:34.08 | JBDiGriz | now you sound like gollum |
| 04:34.09 | Quol | that's my bed calling |
| 04:34.18 | Quol | lol JB |
| 04:34.35 | Quol | see you tomorrow - G;Night |
| 04:34.47 | learner | good night, quol |
| 04:34.58 | JBDiGriz | The text to speech interface is hysterical. |
| 04:35.12 | learner | jb: what was that link, now that I'm home? |
| 04:36.28 | JBDiGriz | http://www.conversation.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ |
| 04:36.36 | learner | thank you |
| 04:36.51 | JBDiGriz | It actually reads the URL's fairly well. |
| 04:38.35 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:38.52 | brlcad | cute |
| 04:39.22 | JBDiGriz | and it reads the messages while you're playing bzflag |
| 04:40.04 | fiberchunks | oops, I'm late -- thanks quol for the help (someone remind him to read the logs |
| 04:40.52 | fiberchunks | and Pat, and anyone else I've forgotten -- I've gotta head off to prepare for the hell hole tomorrow -- take it easy gents |
| 04:41.34 | JBDiGriz | Now it's singing your comments to the "Hall of the Mountain King" :D |
| 04:42.25 | fiberchunks | gnite all |
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| 05:03.45 | *** part/#bzflag SGIq (~SGIq@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 05:17.52 | JBDiGriz | learner is talking to himself again. Hopefully all sharp objects have been put away. |
| 05:20.55 | learner | he has a rather interesting patch.. |
| 05:21.19 | learner | It looks rather good at quick glance -- gonna test it out now |
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| 06:15.07 | CIA | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/include (common.h): added test comparison for near-zero floating point since == 0.0f is not safe on some architectures or for certain extreme values; added a default zero-tolerance define of 6 digits near-zero precision |
| 06:21.37 | CIA | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (2 files): applied sourceforge patch #800179 "2 keyboard bugs and suggested fixes"; chose a slightly less dampened angle velocity; converted zero-tests to use the NEAR_ZERO test |
| 06:46.59 | CIA | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (LocalPlayer.cxx): even less dampening -- the values need to be "just enough" to allow for subtle aiming deltas via the keyboard; probably will need more tweaking later |
| 06:58.59 | *** part/#bzflag brlcad (sean@chr160dhcp1675.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
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| 09:57.48 | Chestal | grmpf, why doI not receive any maisl for other people's commits? that's annyoing |
| 10:02.00 | Chestal | hmm, I am not so sure the latest changes are all good |
| 10:48.22 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (~~joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 10:59.00 | MrAC | chesal sf is using spamassassin... incorrectly i'd assume |
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| 12:53.58 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 12:56.29 | learner | Chestal: ping |
| 14:08.19 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145) |
| 14:13.48 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug (~~joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 14:16.57 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se) |
| 14:17.00 | Chestal | learner: pong |
| 14:17.03 | *** part/#bzflag larsl (~larsl@c213-100-62-55.swipnet.se) |
| 14:38.37 | *** join/#bzflag bzdoug_ (~~joe@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
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| 15:14.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 15:34.05 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 15:34.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 15:34.18 | *** join/#bzflag Michel (~Michel@adsl-154-104.wanadoo.be) |
| 15:35.03 | *** part/#bzflag Michel (~Michel@adsl-154-104.wanadoo.be) |
| 15:35.13 | *** join/#bzflag Michel (~Michel@adsl-154-104.wanadoo.be) |
| 15:35.33 | *** join/#bzflag RedRock (~Michel@adsl-154-104.wanadoo.be) |
| 15:35.56 | RedRock | hey..question: can tyou change your paasword??? the one for admin stuff..the new thing |
| 15:36.14 | RedRock | I can' seem to change it |
| 15:37.53 | RedRock | I leave it open in case someone feels like answering :d |
| 15:42.31 | patlabor221 | use /setpass |
| 15:51.41 | *** join/#bzflag JBDiGriz_ (~JBDiGriz_@216.188.65.26) |
| 16:09.21 | ElmerFudd | Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits. |
| 16:11.20 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@208.48.199.214) |
| 16:11.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 16:11.26 | bryjen | Duck Season! |
| 16:13.49 | captain_proton | i'm thinking that the wireless duck hunt needs to have bullet time |
| 16:18.02 | *** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be) |
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| 16:27.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:27.46 | RedRock | thanks |
| 16:29.10 | RedRock | bye all |
| 16:29.12 | *** part/#bzflag RedRock (~Michel@adsl-154-104.wanadoo.be) |
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| 17:04.06 | brlcad | feeling looney today, jb? |
| 17:05.32 | JBDiGriz | There's always a bit of toon in all of us. |
| 17:16.59 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@205.197.172.21) |
| 17:19.30 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 17:20.16 | Chikorita | ibot: botsnack |
| 17:20.16 | | :), Chikorita |
| 17:20.19 | Chikorita | :) |
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| 18:23.59 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@205.197.172.21) |
| 18:24.07 | Chikorita | :D |
| 18:24.45 | Chikorita | any1 here? |
| 18:25.09 | Chikorita | hmm |
| 18:33.12 | *** join/#bzflag anaconda (~ASdf@adsl-212-41-69-177.solnet.ch) |
| 18:33.16 | anaconda | hi |
| 18:47.22 | *** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be) |
| 18:49.01 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-254-104.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:49.16 | CIA | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files): -solo Robot, priority: penalty to dead-zone targets |
| 18:49.55 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-254-104.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:08.01 | *** join/#bzflag jolly (~bzjolly81@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
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| 19:13.36 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172) |
| 19:13.36 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://list.BZFlag.org/ || http://stats.BZFlag.org/ || forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org || put javadoc-style /** comments */ in headers! || cvs snapshots: http://sfsnap.babylonia.flatirons.org/ Win32 versions http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/19 |
| 19:13.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 19:15.45 | bryjen | ~country .ch |
| 19:15.45 | | it has been said that country .ch is switzerland |
| 19:25.08 | *** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be) |
| 19:36.40 | CIA | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (3 files): dead-zone robots now start pathfinding from nearest region |
| 20:01.36 | bryjen | Do the robots try to aviod being shot? |
| 20:02.00 | Tupone | not solo robots. Roger try to jump |
| 20:02.27 | brlcad | Roger tries like a freaking rabbit -- too predictably |
| 20:04.32 | bryjen | That was one of the things that made Chestal's bot hard. Their shots were accurate and they'd dodge just enough to avoid being shot. |
| 20:05.40 | bryjen | I don't think they wasted shots by firing them all in a single line either |
| 20:08.21 | CIA | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (RobotPlayer.cxx): -solo robots aims is more accurate and appropriate |
| 20:08.36 | Chestal | more accurate? how so? |
| 20:08.58 | Tupone | I shoot to the true target |
| 20:09.19 | Tupone | Before, I was shooting on the last path |
| 20:09.21 | Chestal | if you make them too strong, we need a parameter to adjust their strength :-) |
| 20:09.36 | Tupone | They are still toooooo stupod |
| 20:09.43 | Tupone | stupid |
| 20:10.03 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@205.197.172.21) |
| 20:10.06 | Chestal | my bot was even more stupid in a way, but still much stronger |
| 20:10.36 | Tupone | Where I can see that? |
| 20:11.05 | Chestal | Tupone: nowhere really, it's a patched client. More liek a Roger than a bot |
| 20:11.16 | Chestal | but I thnk that the -solo bots are ok now |
| 20:11.48 | Chikorita | bz bots would b neet 2 have |
| 20:12.15 | Chestal | but we need an abstraction layer so it would be easy to write bots |
| 20:12.37 | Chestal | when you hardcode a bot, half of the work goes into making sure that they do not cheat |
| 20:12.47 | Chikorita | a bot would prolly play betta than sum noobies even , LoL |
| 20:13.01 | Tupone | I would like them to make piece of circles and straight lines. Not only straight lines. |
| 20:13.01 | brlcad | Chika, you should try playing Roger :) |
| 20:13.12 | Chikorita | iz roger a bot? |
| 20:13.17 | brlcad | yes |
| 20:13.17 | Chestal | ah, hi learner |
| 20:13.20 | Chikorita | where can i play him? |
| 20:13.27 | Chikorita | btw hi L |
| 20:13.34 | brlcad | howdy chestal and chika ;) |
| 20:13.36 | Chikorita | ooH L gues wut! |
| 20:13.39 | Chestal | brlcad: some of the pvernight changes look suspect to me, convince me that they're good :-) |
| 20:14.04 | brlcad | lol |
| 20:14.16 | Chikorita | greg was playin taday i saw him |
| 20:14.19 | brlcad | which one ches? there were three things that went in |
| 20:14.19 | Chikorita | :D |
| 20:14.26 | brlcad | oh really, chika? |
| 20:14.28 | brlcad | cool |
| 20:14.38 | Chikorita | uh huh he back :) |
| 20:14.54 | Chikorita | yay mee teamy returned |
| 20:15.04 | Chikorita | now i hafta find Mayhem |
| 20:15.20 | brlcad | ches: there was key-rolling, key-aim dampening, and near_zero macro |
| 20:16.16 | Chestal | key-rolling is ok I guess, strangely, key steering has strange effects on my work machinem always had |
| 20:16.18 | brlcad | key-rolling was really a nice thing to have as it fixes a problem you'd have with the keys while driving |
| 20:16.42 | Chestal | is the dampening code only active for key steering? I noticed that it is in localplayer? |
| 20:16.49 | brlcad | you can now hit a reverse or turn direction without having to release a key |
| 20:17.09 | Chestal | I never used key steeering, I am surprised that peopel actually use it |
| 20:17.30 | brlcad | with the timing, you'd often get "stuck" while in battle, and that fix mostly takes care of the problem |
| 20:17.38 | brlcad | I solely use key steering |
| 20:17.46 | Chestal | key steering is broken for me anyway, so I don't care :-) |
| 20:17.50 | brlcad | lol |
| 20:17.56 | Chikorita | i play wif keyboard |
| 20:17.59 | Chestal | roger shows the same behaviour btw. |
| 20:18.01 | brlcad | the other change only affects key steering too |
| 20:18.04 | Chestal | it's stuttering movement |
| 20:18.23 | Chestal | fine at my faster machien at home, but stuttering on software rendering macine at work |
| 20:18.39 | Chikorita | so roger uses keys to play too? |
| 20:18.49 | brlcad | it allows you to give smaller delta movements when turning -- lets you, say, shoot just around a corner |
| 20:19.04 | Chestal | Chiko: yes, that's why he is called "Roger" I think :-) |
| 20:19.26 | Chikorita | umm okkay |
| 20:19.56 | Chikorita | roger prolly beat mee upz |
| 20:20.00 | Chikorita | LoL |
| 20:20.09 | Chestal | brlcad: but it's in localplayer, so it also affects mouse movement? Looks like a low inertia fur turning movements to me |
| 20:20.27 | brlcad | Chestal: with how it was, you'd turn with the keys (at full acceleration) making precision aiming rather difficult or impossible without completely turning and reaiming |
| 20:20.29 | Chestal | a change that woudl only affect key steerign should go into playing.cxx me thngs |
| 20:20.48 | Chestal | s/thngs/thinks/ |
| 20:21.24 | brlcad | one of them did.. |
| 20:22.03 | Chikorita | can u turn fasta wen u use da slow motion key? |
| 20:22.05 | Chestal | to bad that commit mailing is b roken |
| 20:22.10 | Chestal | makes it hard to see what changed |
| 20:22.40 | Chestal | I wonder wheterh the sf guys even know that there is a problem? |
| 20:23.01 | Chikorita | "a" iz da default key 4 slow motion |
| 20:23.39 | Chikorita | so how duz da name "roger" relate 2 key usage? |
| 20:24.13 | brlcad | cvs diff -D "1 day ago" blah.cxx |
| 20:24.57 | Chestal | Chiko: know the movie 'Airplane'? |
| 20:25.04 | Chikorita | ya |
| 20:25.24 | Chikorita | o itz from da movie |
| 20:25.32 | Chestal | brlcad: the changes affect newAngVel should clearly be taken into key steerign handling in playing.cxx |
| 20:25.56 | Chestal | brlcad: it's not the tank who needs the dampening, it's the key steering |
| 20:26.04 | Chikorita | "Airplane" iz 1 of mah fav comedys |
| 20:26.09 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 20:26.22 | Chestal | so, desiredAngVel shoudl already be dampened |
| 20:26.33 | brlcad | hrm.. makes sense |
| 20:26.41 | Chestal | CHiko: well, the autopilot in this movie also used the normal controls :-) |
| 20:26.51 | brlcad | where 'bouts in playing.cxx |
| 20:26.52 | Chestal | rlcad: liek it is now, mouse movement would also be affected |
| 20:26.52 | Chikorita | ooH i c |
| 20:27.25 | brlcad | Someone should fire roger up on brlcad.org so Chika can play him ;) |
| 20:27.40 | Chikorita | yay :) |
| 20:28.09 | brlcad | Chestal: sounds good -- I'll see if I can figure out what you're saying in a couple hours and get that moved |
| 20:28.26 | Chestal | brlcad: thanks |
| 20:28.45 | Chikorita | buh i not gonna re-inflate roger if he has trubble |
| 20:28.46 | Chestal | brlcad: it's the dampening lien and the 'full stop line |
| 20:29.01 | brlcad | right |
| 20:29.06 | Chestal | brlcad: are the NEAR_ZERO checks your idea? or did that come with the key changes? |
| 20:30.24 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@D40A3023.rev.stofanet.dk) |
| 20:30.49 | Chestal | hi [dmp] |
| 20:31.02 | Chikorita | hi dmpee |
| 20:31.23 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 20:32.11 | brlcad | I added them, though they are not "my" ideas -- it's an old C trick |
| 20:32.12 | Chikorita | ibot: botsnack |
| 20:32.12 | | Chikorita: :) |
| 20:32.44 | Chestal | brlcad: yes, I know the basic idea, I am just not 100% sure it's needed here or maybe even does harm |
| 20:32.52 | [dmp] | Hello. |
| 20:33.29 | Chestal | brlcad: I haven't looked at the changes in detail, I woudl just be very careful to make changes like this. Has there been a problem with the former code? FOr example, I could imagine that == 0.0 would be better for some things like z position |
| 20:33.31 | brlcad | Chestal: really shouldn't do any harm unless there's a "bug" |
| 20:33.42 | Chestal | brlcad: because z is set to exactly 0.0 when a ground hit is detected etc. |
| 20:34.16 | brlcad | you can't realiably check == 0.0 on non-IEEE systems at all |
| 20:34.36 | Chestal | uh? |
| 20:34.57 | Chestal | I woudl assume that it's always possible to represent an exact 0 |
| 20:35.26 | Chestal | I wonder under which circumstances doUpdateMotion gets called with a dt of 0, hmm |
| 20:35.42 | brlcad | you can do things like float i = 0.0f; (i == 0.0f) ? printf("true"); : printf("false"); that will consistently return false |
| 20:36.06 | Chestal | uh? never saw such a system |
| 20:36.17 | brlcad | IEEE is what allows you to say == 0.0 |
| 20:36.19 | Chestal | and I sure wouldn#t want to use it |
| 20:36.46 | Chestal | what about float i = 0.0f, j=i; if (i == j) ? |
| 20:37.29 | Chestal | (ignorign the fact that bzflag assumes IEEE flaot anyway) |
| 20:37.40 | brlcad | most of the IEEE implementations do the X < epsilon && X > -epsilon hack anyways -- just with hardware precise epsilons |
| 20:38.07 | brlcad | same failure is possible on that second example |
| 20:38.19 | brlcad | it's really lame, but used to be prevalent |
| 20:39.12 | Chestal | dt shoudl either be 0 or 1s/fps |
| 20:39.30 | Chestal | its called with 0 to initialize |
| 20:40.09 | brlcad | the problem is that the value can really end up being "0.000000000001" or "-0.0000000000127813" etc |
| 20:40.31 | brlcad | the floating point unit can permute bits that are beyond it's precision |
| 20:41.02 | brlcad | here's a good read if you get a few minutes: http://www.math.grin.edu/~stone/courses/fundamentals/IEEE-reals.html |
| 20:41.56 | brlcad | I can switch it back, but it really should only add portability and cause no harm |
| 20:42.28 | Chestal | I am trying to understand all that linear algebra code |
| 20:43.42 | *** join/#bzflag KTL_ (~KTL@scotty.kulnet.kuleuven.ac.be) |
| 20:46.35 | Chestal | hmm, *scratch* |
| 20:47.05 | Chestal | in LocalPlayer.cxx near line 425 (// if going down that stop falling): what exactly doe sthe if clause check? |
| 20:51.16 | brlcad | well, the first half says "if descending", but that's the easy part |
| 20:52.48 | Chestal | hmm, whatever, I don't thinm it makes a difference there |
| 20:52.58 | brlcad | it looks like it's checking the dot product too, though I might be mistaken |
| 20:52.59 | Chestal | but I feel a bit uneasy about some of the pos[2]==0.0f changes |
| 20:53.41 | Chestal | for exampel to play burrow sound it checkes whether old pos is at 0.0 and new pos is <0 |
| 20:54.09 | Chestal | with the near_zero check I could imagine that it would play the sound more than once, but I think it's very improbably |
| 20:54.19 | Chestal | only with a extremely high framerate |
| 20:54.50 | Chestal | what I am saying is: some of the == checks are really meant to mean == that value and not somethign else liek x+epsilon |
| 20:55.05 | brlcad | if that's the concern, I could simply make the epsilon used be the lowest delta representable |
| 20:55.59 | Chestal | or just revert those checks back to == 0.0f and only apply it where it's appropriate. I think it's ok for the dt checks |
| 20:56.20 | Chestal | extremely small dts would probably give wrong results anyway |
| 20:56.24 | Chestal | on the other hand, hmm |
| 20:57.22 | brlcad | if the epsilon is small enough -- you'll never have an issue since you'll be doing the same thing the floating point unit is doing anyways |
| 20:57.45 | Chestal | yes, but then we coudl stick with the == in the first place :-) |
| 20:58.10 | Chestal | one place where I think the change is good is where you check normal[2] before somethign gets divided by that value |
| 20:58.13 | brlcad | but if we are doing things on a scale that requires something less than 1.0e-7, we are in trouble |
| 20:58.18 | Chestal | although I do not understand what's really happening there |
| 20:58.50 | Chestal | well, dt is only used as a factor, so it should be ok |
| 20:59.01 | brlcad | sure, I'll be happy to switch it back -- it was done purely in the sake of portability |
| 20:59.07 | Chestal | of course a dt < 1ms is not goign to happen - unless we have a client that doesn't draw anythng |
| 21:00.39 | brlcad | Chestal: do you have a /usr/include/float.h ? |
| 21:00.58 | brlcad | there should be a FLT_EPSILON in there, that is the precision on your math library |
| 21:00.59 | Chestal | no, but I thin I have something better |
| 21:01.26 | brlcad | mine is #define FLT_EPSILON 1.19209290e-07F |
| 21:02.02 | Chestal | that is defines as smalles eps where 1+eps != 1, right? |
| 21:02.14 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:02.54 | *** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp153139pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:03.16 | Chestal | ok, dt can never be < 0.001f |
| 21:03.24 | Chestal | it can be 0, but never between 0 or 0.001f |
| 21:03.28 | brlcad | I think the default I used was 1.0e-06 iirc |
| 21:03.38 | Chestal | line 69 prohibits that |
| 21:06.44 | Chestal | hmm, I don't understand lien 338, waah |
| 21:08.48 | brlcad | eh? in LocalPlayer.cxx? |
| 21:09.21 | Chestal | yes, btu I think it's ok, only a bit strange |
| 21:10.45 | CIA | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/include (common.h): updated epsilon to try and use FLT_EPSILON (need check for float.h) |
| 21:11.15 | brlcad | if we're not exploding and not dead, then we're on the fround? |
| 21:11.21 | brlcad | er, ground |
| 21:11.30 | brlcad | what about jumping? |
| 21:11.45 | Chestal | location is recalculated much later |
| 21:12.03 | Chestal | I think the lgoic that follow only wants to deal with 3 states: dead / exploding / otherweise |
| 21:12.20 | brlcad | ah, it's incrementally set |
| 21:12.54 | Chestal | yes, a bit confusing |
| 21:13.43 | brlcad | I'm glad I haven't read that code much |
| 21:14.01 | Chestal | hehe |
| 21:14.42 | Chestal | if you don't mind I will revert the near_zero checks for z == 0.0, I don't trust those. The others look fine to me (as far as I can make sense of the calculations that are performed) |
| 21:15.24 | brlcad | I don't mind |
| 21:15.55 | brlcad | I think your a bit nutty already ;) |
| 21:16.05 | brlcad | This won't change anything :D |
| 21:16.22 | Chestal | it's imporbably that iw ould cause any problems, but there are some checks for z>0 which change some state and later some checks for z==0, so I coudl iamgine some pathological cases which cause problems |
| 21:16.49 | Chestal | floating point arithmetic is evil, evil! |
| 21:17.37 | brlcad | Well, we've beaten the horse pretty good ;) If you're uncomfortable with it, that's good enough reason for me. |
| 21:17.44 | CIA | 03chestal * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (LocalPlayer.cxx): I feel uneasy about some of the -eps < z < eps checks, so revert them to == 0 |
| 21:18.08 | Chestal | IIRC the robot pathfinding code has some problem related to float accuracy as well |
| 21:18.21 | Chestal | woudl even lead to a crash or infinite loop at program exit |
| 21:18.27 | Chestal | but I cannot really remember |
| 21:18.47 | brlcad | In the unlikely event anyone even _has_ a non IEEE-compliant machine I'll just point at you and say it's your fault :) |
| 21:18.47 | Chestal | and it didn't really happen for me in a long time, so maybe it fixed itself ;-) |
| 21:19.10 | Chestal | well, we're sendign floats as memory dump over the wire I think, so everyone betetr use the same format |
| 21:19.32 | brlcad | no htond conversion? |
| 21:19.37 | brlcad | htonf |
| 21:19.39 | Chestal | byte order yes |
| 21:20.11 | brlcad | and we reconvert back to host order? -- then it won't matter |
| 21:20.16 | Chestal | but no support for machines with other float representations |
| 21:20.38 | Chestal | I heard some new CPUs can do decimal floatign point |
| 21:21.06 | brlcad | fixed point arith? |
| 21:21.12 | brlcad | eep |
| 21:21.43 | brlcad | hey, cool -- cvs commit e-mail is unb0rked |
| 21:22.00 | Chestal | mine always seemed to work |
| 21:22.08 | Chestal | maybe SpamAssassin doesn't like MAC :-) |
| 21:22.20 | brlcad | it stopped sometime last night |
| 21:22.26 | Chestal | soem of yours got filtered, too, though, hmm |
| 21:22.39 | brlcad | and now it's working since tupone's last commit earlier today |
| 21:23.02 | Chestal | the problem has been there for several days |
| 21:23.11 | Chestal | but my commits always seemed to work, maybe it was just coincidence |
| 21:23.17 | brlcad | odd, rather odd |
| 21:23.31 | Chestal | ehm? Worum geht#s? Film? Wenn ja, welcher? |
| 21:23.32 | brlcad | maybe it's a time-of-day thing -- you're on during their production hours |
| 21:23.34 | Chestal | oops |
| 21:24.06 | brlcad | mac and I are often on during "after-hours" |
| 21:25.25 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas (~topgunp38@adsl-68-73-87-1.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 21:25.34 | brlcad | howdy legolas |
| 21:25.41 | Legolas | hi learner |
| 21:26.06 | brlcad | merry didn't have a clue who I was yesterday, even after big hintage |
| 21:26.23 | Legolas | LoL |
| 21:26.33 | Legolas | i would think she would of known |
| 21:26.53 | brlcad | I think she was busy with something else and not really trying ;) |
| 21:27.02 | Legolas | C |
| 21:27.04 | Chikorita | hi legolas |
| 21:27.32 | Legolas | be back in 25 min |
| 21:27.36 | Legolas | bye |
| 21:27.45 | Legolas | off to play bz |
| 21:28.00 | Chikorita | okies |
| 21:29.12 | Chikorita | ~d |
| 21:29.21 | Chikorita | hmm maybee i go play sum bz 2 |
| 21:29.24 | brlcad | hey chika -- whatcha doin? |
| 21:29.33 | Chikorita | chattin |
| 21:29.39 | Chikorita | in secret |
| 21:29.40 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 21:29.46 | brlcad | hehe |
| 21:29.50 | Chikorita | top secret stuffs |
| 21:29.57 | Chikorita | ;) |
| 21:30.03 | brlcad | are you going to be around in an hour? |
| 21:30.10 | Chikorita | o yin ask mee if he/she could join BzR |
| 21:30.17 | Chikorita | yea imma b here i thinks |
| 21:30.26 | brlcad | who is yin?? |
| 21:30.34 | Chikorita | i dunno either LoL |
| 21:30.37 | Chikorita | sum1 new |
| 21:30.40 | Chikorita | nice tho |
| 21:30.52 | Chikorita | havent seen yin play yet so... |
| 21:30.57 | Chikorita | brb |
| 21:33.51 | Chikorita | bye peepz bbl |
| 21:37.48 | JBDiGriz | brlcad: Can Elmer Fudd join BzR? ;-) |
| 21:38.02 | brlcad | lol |
| 21:38.36 | *** join/#bzflag MrCooper (~daenzer@dclient80-218-114-28.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:38.52 | brlcad | as long as he brings his shotgun and is bery bery qwiet |
| 21:39.08 | JBDiGriz | He likes to hunt rabbits. |
| 21:39.57 | JBDiGriz | or maybe wabbits ;) |
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| 21:44.28 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~Patlabor2@208.48.199.214) |
| 21:44.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 21:45.09 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@205.197.172.21) |
| 21:45.14 | Chikorita | sowee im back |
| 21:45.30 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas (~topgunp38@adsl-68-73-87-1.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 21:45.34 | Chikorita | Legolas wantz 2 match us learner |
| 21:45.34 | Legolas | leanrer |
| 21:45.41 | Chikorita | o there he iz |
| 21:45.48 | Legolas | please? |
| 21:46.19 | Legolas | uhhh |
| 21:46.26 | Legolas | he is prolicing around work |
| 21:46.33 | Legolas | thats his away message |
| 21:46.33 | Chikorita | lol |
| 21:46.50 | Legolas | ok |
| 21:46.54 | Legolas | i guess its off |
| 21:47.00 | Chikorita | brlcad=learner 2 |
| 21:47.21 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 21:47.25 | Legolas | grr |
| 21:47.39 | Chikorita | maybee greg wil b on again later |
| 21:47.48 | Chikorita | he was on not 2 long ago u missed him, |
| 21:47.51 | Legolas | ok |
| 21:47.56 | Legolas | learner cant match |
| 21:48.06 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-135-30.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 21:48.07 | Chikorita | im going back 2 ducati |
| 21:48.11 | Chikorita | c u there |
| 21:48.17 | Chikorita | hi carny bye carny |
| 21:48.23 | Carnage | good luck chick :) |
| 21:56.48 | *** join/#bzflag heinola (~heinola@63.98.3.70) |
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| 21:58.26 | heinola | i got a off the topic question lol |
| 21:59.09 | heinola | in X-men where did rogue(x-men) get here powers to fly+ strength ? |
| 21:59.45 | heinola | someone asked me today and i couldnt remember and its been bugging me all day lol |
| 22:01.20 | Chestal | ~google for x-men rogue fly power |
| 22:02.05 | heinola | ty |
| 22:02.08 | Chestal | the oracle knows everythng :-) |
| 22:08.48 | *** join/#bzflag mmu (~revol@ALyon-209-1-20-30.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:12.25 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~mike@237.14.252.64.snet.net) |
| 22:16.35 | brlcad | howdy fiber! |
| 22:20.18 | JBDiGriz | high fiber diet |
| 22:21.05 | fiberchunks | allo |
| 22:21.11 | fiberchunks | whaz happenin |
| 22:21.16 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-254-104.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 22:21.20 | brlcad | better than yesterday, that's for sure |
| 22:21.31 | fiberchunks | good for you |
| 22:21.45 | brlcad | but not for any particular reason except maybe that I'm not going to work tomorrow |
| 22:22.03 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 22:22.17 | fiberchunks | nor am I -- I went to the hell hole today, and that's enough |
| 22:22.29 | brlcad | "rock on" :) |
| 22:23.13 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 22:26.45 | brlcad | LoL |
| 22:29.25 | fiberchunks | regretfully, I have to go back mon and tues as well |
| 22:29.33 | fiberchunks | but then it's smooth sailin |
| 22:57.41 | CIA | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzflag (playing.cxx): restoring sound Volume on joining Game (BUG 794306) |
| 22:58.16 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-254-104.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 23:08.03 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@dialup-85-178.Colorado.EDU) |
| 23:08.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 23:25.45 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-254-104.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 23:25.54 | *** join/#bzflag Chikorita (~Chikumz33@204.91.206.15) |
| 23:27.30 | JBDiGriz | chiko, are you overfeeding bots again? |
| 23:27.39 | Chikorita | hmmpf |
| 23:27.55 | Chikorita | he needs foo |
| 23:28.07 | Chikorita | bots need luv 2 |
| 23:28.09 | Chikorita | :) |
| 23:28.26 | Chikorita | othawise dey act dum |
| 23:28.32 | Chikorita | LoL |
| 23:28.38 | JBDiGriz | He was getting way too big and overflowing the disk. He's now getting trim and lean again ;-) |
| 23:28.50 | Chikorita | haha nuh uh |
| 23:29.04 | Chikorita | he iz too skinny an weak |
| 23:29.14 | JBDiGriz | He's looking so good, that people are logging in just to talk to him. |
| 23:29.16 | Chikorita | dat y he either talks too much or too little |
| 23:29.23 | Chikorita | lol jaybee |
| 23:30.02 | Chikorita | he needs 2 say more stuff |
| 23:30.07 | Chikorita | an stop puking on mee |
| 23:30.14 | Chikorita | grr |
| 23:30.29 | Chikorita | >;) |
| 23:30.39 | JBDiGriz | That only happens when you try to feed him, try some other forms of affection ;-) |
| 23:30.45 | Chikorita | hmm |
| 23:31.31 | Chikorita | ibot: botsnack |
| 23:31.31 | | Chikorita: aw, gee |
| 23:31.35 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 23:31.40 | Chikorita | dis bot iz nicer |
| 23:31.45 | Chikorita | no pukes on mee |
| 23:31.54 | Chikorita | she iz a smart bot |
| 23:31.54 | JBDiGriz | I don't think she fits in her cheerleader skirt anymore though. |
| 23:32.06 | Chikorita | hmmpf |
| 23:32.37 | Chikorita | if u chat wif it more it wil get sum excersize |
| 23:32.53 | Chikorita | ~JBDigriz |
| 23:32.53 | | "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger!" |
| 23:33.00 | Chikorita | lol |
| 23:33.58 | Chikorita | ibot attack JBDiGriz |
| 23:33.58 | | Chikorita: are you using Windows? |
| 23:34.08 | Chikorita | ibot: insult JBDiGriz |
| 23:34.09 | | Chikorita: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about |
| 23:34.20 | Chikorita | ibot insult JBDiGriz |
| 23:34.21 | | Chikorita: I give up, what is it? |
| 23:34.28 | JBDiGriz | ibot: fishslap Chikorita |
| 23:34.29 | | ACTION slaps Chikorita up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 23:34.29 | Chikorita | blah nvrmnd |
| 23:34.33 | Chikorita | grr |
| 23:34.45 | Chikorita | ibot: whaleslap JBDiGriz |
| 23:34.46 | | ibot slaps JBDiGriz upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale |
| 23:34.50 | Chikorita | LoL |
| 23:34.53 | Chikorita | yay i win |
| 23:35.08 | Chikorita | ;) |
| 23:35.09 | JBDiGriz | ibot: lart Chikorita |
| 23:35.13 | Chikorita | ow |
| 23:35.28 | JBDiGriz | You should start using a wireless mouse ;-) |
| 23:35.40 | Chikorita | hmmpf |
| 23:36.03 | Chikorita | good ol trout |
| 23:36.06 | Chikorita | heehe |
| 23:36.10 | Chikorita | poor trout |
| 23:36.17 | Chikorita | ;) |
| 23:38.22 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@dialup-85-178.Colorado.EDU) |
| 23:38.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
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| 23:50.09 | *** join/#bzflag SGIq (~SGIq@bgp01138bgs.sothfd01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:50.20 | SGIq | hi |
| 23:53.12 | JBDiGriz | heya |