| 00:01:49 | Alphonse | mmmm skyboxes are purddddddyyyyy |
| 00:01:59 | doughecka | for... |
| 00:02:05 | Alphonse | everything |
| 00:02:11 | doughecka | oh.. |
| 00:02:26 | Alphonse | but more specificly |
| 00:02:29 | Alphonse | "stuff" |
| 00:02:45 | doughecka | ah, clears that up good |
| 00:02:57 | Alphonse | as it should |
| 00:03:01 | Alphonse | now for some BZ textures |
| 00:03:23 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:03:44 | Alphonse | I forget how tall the walls are suposed to be |
| 00:03:57 | doughecka | forgets too |
| 00:04:02 | doughecka | askes captain_proton |
| 00:04:07 | Alphonse | well 10 is good engouh |
| 00:04:09 | Alphonse | he is gone |
| 00:04:12 | doughecka | yea |
| 00:25:04 | Alphonse | wheee instant BZ flag base world replacement |
| 00:25:41 | Alphonse | tho the mountans are difrent |
| 00:35:08 | doughecka | oh? |
| 00:42:54 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:42:59 | doughecka | slashdot in binary |
| 00:43:01 | doughecka | http://www.degraeve.com/scripts/babel2/babel.cgi?d=binary&url=http%3A%2F%2Fslashdot.org |
| 00:47:35 | | 6.02739977391219e+300 |
| 00:47:35 | doughecka | ibot bin2dec 100110111011111101110110010011000011111001 |
| 00:47:39 | doughecka | hm |
| 00:48:11 | | 4.08857897464885e+134 |
| 00:48:11 | doughecka | ibot bin2dec 1100100110010111100 |
| 00:48:15 | doughecka | hmmm |
| 01:04:57 | Alphonse | I will show it to you when I get home from the sushi |
| 01:28:30 | captain_proton | returns |
| 01:30:49 | captain_proton | mmmmmMMMMMMmmmmm |
| 01:33:14 | Noodleman | is anyone here? |
| 03:10:57 | captain_proton | teehee, i press a button on my remote control and a window pops up |
| 04:34:24 | SpacemanSpiff | Hey people |
| 04:55:03 | lurgyman | poop |
| 04:55:13 | lurgyman | i don't like vlc's configure |
| 04:55:21 | lurgyman | it keeps making me recompile everything |
| 05:46:35 | BZFlag | crs been here? |
| 05:46:39 | | I haven't seen 'crs32', BZFlag |
| 05:46:39 | BZFlag | ibot seen crs32 |
| 05:46:46 | | crs23 was last seen on #bzflag 105 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: Widget: yes, just put the script in there. [Mon Jul 8 15:11:13 2002] |
| 05:46:46 | BZFlag | ibot seen crs23 |
| 05:46:51 | BZFlag | hmm. |
| 06:38:57 | captain_proton | whoop whooooop |
| 06:39:06 | | crs23 was last seen on #bzflag 105 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes and 53 seconds ago, saying: Widget: yes, just put the script in there. [Mon Jul 8 15:11:13 2002] |
| 06:39:06 | captain_proton | ibot seen crs23 |
| 06:39:20 | captain_proton | err |
| 06:39:22 | captain_proton | oh |
| 06:39:31 | captain_proton | pppbbbts |
| 07:11:56 | prodan | guete morge |
| 07:21:52 | sussudio | wiener schnitzel. |
| 09:02:59 | bomber | moin |
| 17:07:16 | PerfectCell | how do i create an unambiguous 32 bit handle, the server creates hadles and the client, and it must be ensured that they dont create the same handle |
| 17:07:20 | PerfectCell | ? |
| 17:07:53 | Patlabor221 | like a some type of "key" number? |
| 17:07:58 | Patlabor221 | or GUID? |
| 17:08:06 | PerfectCell | exactly |
| 17:08:11 | Patlabor221 | malloc |
| 17:08:22 | PerfectCell | ha? |
| 17:08:31 | Patlabor221 | well it will be unique |
| 17:08:40 | Patlabor221 | there also is a windows GUID function |
| 17:08:57 | PerfectCell | but its 64 bit |
| 17:09:13 | PerfectCell | struct GUID {WORD WORD} |
| 17:09:27 | PerfectCell | sorry DWORD DWORD |
| 17:09:53 | PerfectCell | that is too large for me, since i need lots of them |
| 17:10:01 | PerfectCell | 32 bit is k |
| 17:12:15 | Patlabor221 | well then you will have to come up with someting |
| 17:12:23 | Patlabor221 | Malloc off a book |
| 17:12:25 | Patlabor221 | sorry a bool |
| 17:12:34 | Patlabor221 | or do some sort of negotiaion |
| 17:12:41 | Patlabor221 | pick a seed |
| 17:13:03 | Patlabor221 | or allways have the server asign them |
| 17:13:47 | PerfectCell | hm, what i want is that two ppl can edit a bzflag file (for example) together |
| 17:14:01 | PerfectCell | in my editor |
| 17:14:10 | PerfectCell | that would be fun |
| 17:14:11 | Patlabor221 | been reading that CUBE doc haven't tou |
| 17:14:20 | Patlabor221 | well then one has to be the "Server" |
| 17:14:28 | Patlabor221 | and it must asign the object IDs |
| 17:14:35 | Patlabor221 | the other gets all it's data from it |
| 17:14:53 | PerfectCell | but that could take 'long' |
| 17:15:08 | Patlabor221 | well someone has to be in controll |
| 17:15:20 | PerfectCell | no, i head the idea of working together long before i discovered CUBE, :) |
| 17:15:44 | Patlabor221 | and you must have an object list now, just use the list ID |
| 17:15:49 | Patlabor221 | when the client wants to add one |
| 17:15:54 | Patlabor221 | just have it ask the server |
| 17:15:56 | PerfectCell | but of caz i was impressed that CUBE stole my idea |
| 17:16:06 | Patlabor221 | and get the body ID |
| 17:16:24 | Patlabor221 | well it's a rather simple idea so I don't think they stole it. |
| 17:16:31 | PerfectCell | i know .) |
| 17:17:36 | PerfectCell | well there can be teleporter*teleporter*2 different links in a bzflag map |
| 17:18:43 | Patlabor221 | ? |
| 17:18:56 | Patlabor221 | you can have as many as you want |
| 17:19:13 | PerfectCell | but then u get redundant ones |
| 17:19:14 | Patlabor221 | a TP can be a target for multiple sources |
| 17:19:21 | Patlabor221 | so |
| 17:19:29 | PerfectCell | lets say u havve 3TP's |
| 17:19:31 | Patlabor221 | it dosn't have to be a regular liear mtch |
| 17:19:51 | PerfectCell | then u can have 18 different links |
| 17:19:52 | Patlabor221 | 2 of them can point to the third as a desination |
| 17:19:54 | Patlabor221 | if you wanted |
| 17:20:14 | Patlabor221 | yes that is the max with out redundancys |
| 17:20:38 | Patlabor221 | but it's fun to make it not a strait TP1<->TP2 match |
| 17:21:19 | PerfectCell | ? |
| 17:21:59 | Patlabor221 | like have multiple TPs port to the same destination |
| 17:22:08 | captain_proton | doobeedoo |
| 17:22:20 | Patlabor221 | wakkka wakkka wakkka |
| 17:23:31 | PerfectCell | dbz time in 4 min :) |
| 17:23:38 | Patlabor221 | ohh the joy |
| 17:23:43 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: got you in the mood last night? |
| 17:23:44 | Patlabor221 | haven't you seen them all by now? |
| 17:23:46 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 17:23:53 | | cap are u going to change the server to the one u were testing |
| 17:23:53 | Patlabor221 | cap? |
| 17:24:00 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: for fishies |
| 17:26:28 | PerfectCell | hey patlabor221:do u know the Power Render engine? |
| 17:29:27 | Patlabor221 | ohh yes for the fish |
| 17:29:42 | Patlabor221 | and what a long strange trip it was to finaly get the fish |
| 17:30:03 | Patlabor221 | he asks a question and then quits? WTF is up with that |
| 17:30:34 | Patlabor221 | where are the socal skills of people going these days? |
| 17:31:00 | captain_proton | beats me |
| 17:31:17 | captain_proton | giggles as he presses the volume buttons on his remote and sees green bars on his screen |
| 17:31:17 | Patlabor221 | but yes I ended up geting the raw fish |
| 17:31:27 | Patlabor221 | but not till like 7:30 |
| 17:31:43 | Patlabor221 | I have buttons on my keyboard that do that |
| 17:32:06 | Chestal | at last some useful buttons |
| 17:32:14 | Chestal | no windows-key or mail-nonsense |
| 17:32:41 | Patlabor221 | I reprogramed the mail button to launch photoshop :) |
| 17:32:59 | Patlabor221 | I do like the one over the numeric keypad that opens the calculator |
| 17:33:03 | Patlabor221 | does come in handy |
| 17:33:05 | Chestal | I got umlauts on my windows-keys and caps-lock |
| 17:33:40 | Patlabor221 | and I like the media controol buttons, play ,stop, ff, rev all that |
| 17:34:01 | Patlabor221 | and the USB hub that's built into the thing |
| 17:34:09 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: yeah, but you can't adjust it sitting across the room watching a movie :) |
| 17:35:05 | Patlabor221 | yes, I have a device called a "television" |
| 17:35:11 | Patlabor221 | works quite well |
| 17:35:21 | Patlabor221 | plays all kinds of movies |
| 17:35:36 | Patlabor221 | nice 29" screen and 5.1 suround |
| 17:36:16 | Patlabor221 | and get this, it can receve boradcasts from space, via a thing called a "saltalite" |
| 17:36:18 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 17:36:40 | Patlabor221 | now if you could get a PDA to be the remote that would be kinda kewl |
| 17:37:16 | Patlabor221 | did you get one of those TVO type digitiser cards? |
| 17:38:16 | captain_proton | yeah, got a tuner card |
| 17:38:52 | Patlabor221 | cool |
| 17:38:58 | Patlabor221 | I saw those on compgeeks |
| 17:39:04 | Patlabor221 | looked intersting |
| 17:39:30 | captain_proton | works pretty well |
| 17:40:21 | Patlabor221 | I'm guessing you don't have room in there for a TV so it's a real space saver for you. |
| 17:41:17 | captain_proton | has got this whole digital-convergence thing -down- |
| 17:42:09 | Patlabor221 | I need to see if my DVD player will play MPEG2s on a data DVD made from a VHS digitisation. |
| 18:31:57 | akira_ | cu all |
| 18:34:50 | Patlabor221 | well that was quick |
| 18:41:10 | Patlabor221 | is away "beef it's what's for lunch" |
| 18:51:25 | BZFlag | ibot: x en es teach me |
| 18:51:26 | | BZFlag: enséñeme |
| 18:53:01 | BZFlag | hmm. I did not see the utf8 portions of that. does anyone else? |
| 19:05:55 | Chestal | well, I see that is is UTF8 |
| 19:06:09 | Chestal | but as I amusing Latin1 or whatever, it looks strange |
| 19:21:05 | BZFlag | hmm |
| 19:57:43 | Patlabor221 | he doug you there? |
| 19:59:13 | | BZFlag: sorry... |
| 19:59:13 | BZFlag | ibot en es teach me |
| 19:59:20 | BZFlag | ibot x en es teach me |
| 19:59:20 | | BZFlag: enséñeme |
| 19:59:37 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 19:59:37 | prodan | ibot ducati |
| 19:59:38 | BZFlag | woohoo! /me can see the utf8 characters. |
| 19:59:41 | bzbot | Frenchie (G): -15 (8-23). calico (G): 15 (57-42). DeadMeat (G): 13 (86-73). Laika (R): 19 (34-15). Micky (R): -1 (36-37). Chuckie (G): -15 (5-20). @... (R): 0 (0-0). airborne (R): 5 (11-6). wrecked (R): -15 (36-51). |
| 20:09:53 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 20:09:53 | prodan | ibot ducati |
| 20:09:55 | bzbot | Frenchie (G): -24 (27-51). calico (G): 20 (88-68). DeadMeat (G): 26 (120-94). Armitage (R): -2 (4-6). Micky (R): -1 (64-65). @... (R): 0 (0-0). airborne (R): 6 (36-30). |
| 20:49:00 | PerfectCell | quiiik |
| 20:50:23 | PerfectCell | it paid off marvelous to implement a message based change notification system |
| 20:53:57 | PerfectCell | now there is a message for each change an node/object makes, multiple clients can register as listeners on an object event, for example if a node gets Transformed it fires a TransformChanged event to call the delegates(callback method) of each registered listener object |
| 20:54:54 | PerfectCell | there is great build in support for events and delegates in the c# language :) |
| 20:57:29 | PerfectCell | it also works with remote objects |
| 20:57:46 | PerfectCell | that gets a big WOW from me |
| 20:58:20 | Patlabor221 | windows mesages? |
| 20:59:26 | PerfectCell | i.e u can instanciate a remote object with:ObjectX objX = new ObjectX(http:://server/objectx); |
| 21:00:54 | PerfectCell | all u need is the metadata for a local Proxy |
| 21:01:20 | PerfectCell | and its all in the assembly/dll in c# |
| 21:01:53 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 21:02:16 | PerfectCell | u know something like RTTI i c++ but extended |
| 21:02:37 | Patlabor221 | what transport does it use? |
| 21:02:50 | PerfectCell | u can choose from tcp or http |
| 21:02:56 | Patlabor221 | and TCP/ port 80 i'll bet |
| 21:03:07 | Patlabor221 | can you controll what ports and stuff it uses? |
| 21:03:15 | Patlabor221 | TCP won't be that fast |
| 21:03:18 | PerfectCell | IIS supports it on http port 80 |
| 21:03:21 | Patlabor221 | not for a lot of updates |
| 21:03:33 | Patlabor221 | do you have to have IIS on the "server" end? |
| 21:03:50 | PerfectCell | no only if u use http as channel |
| 21:04:01 | Patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 21:04:21 | Patlabor221 | I'd be interested to see how the regular TCP performs |
| 21:04:39 | PerfectCell | i think not that well |
| 21:04:41 | Patlabor221 | there may be lag with the ordering and packet resends |
| 21:04:49 | Patlabor221 | HTTP will ahve the same problems |
| 21:04:53 | Patlabor221 | it's just a format of TCP |
| 21:04:59 | PerfectCell | i tried it only on localhost loopback, so i cannot say |
| 21:05:11 | Patlabor221 | but you need garunteed messages. |
| 21:05:13 | PerfectCell | i know its even slower |
| 21:05:19 | PerfectCell | but bypasses firewalls |
| 21:05:42 | Patlabor221 | well not bypassing, just going throuhg a port they commonly leave open. |
| 21:05:50 | PerfectCell | an microsoft says that speed will not be a topic in futer |
| 21:05:53 | PerfectCell | of internet |
| 21:06:07 | Patlabor221 | speed will allways be a topic |
| 21:06:09 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 21:06:19 | Patlabor221 | give us more speed we will find ways to use it |
| 21:07:01 | PerfectCell | sure, but in future there will be no significant diff between remote and local connections |
| 21:07:49 | Patlabor221 | I doubt that |
| 21:08:08 | Patlabor221 | if remopte connections are made as fast as current locals |
| 21:08:22 | Patlabor221 | then something will have to be made to serve multiples of those |
| 21:08:32 | Patlabor221 | and that will have to be a LOT faster then current locals |
| 21:09:28 | PerfectCell | also microsoft tries to see the web as a big OS, that provides reliable services, the users could incorporate into therir progs, HailStorm noe called microsoft .Net My Services |
| 21:09:55 | PerfectCell | that would be really great |
| 21:10:12 | Patlabor221 | or realy bad, depending on how it's exploted |
| 21:10:18 | Patlabor221 | there will allways be greefers |
| 21:10:29 | PerfectCell | but the services have to be as reliable as a harddisk access service in ur OS |
| 21:10:46 | Patlabor221 | and as secure. |
| 21:10:56 | PerfectCell | true |
| 21:12:12 | Patlabor221 | but what would server that data |
| 21:12:24 | PerfectCell | but thats the direction its moving |
| 21:12:28 | Patlabor221 | fast enought to server 1000's of users at that speed? |
| 21:12:36 | PerfectCell | of coz |
| 21:12:40 | Patlabor221 | and what if I want that speed in my desktop? |
| 21:12:45 | PerfectCell | it has to be distributed |
| 21:13:16 | Patlabor221 | I don't know if that's the "way it's going" now, but I think thats the way ms wants it to go |
| 21:13:25 | PerfectCell | i.e like yahoo, but as a webservice |
| 21:13:54 | Patlabor221 | why would I want other services to have my data? |
| 21:14:01 | Patlabor221 | what does it buy me? |
| 21:14:10 | PerfectCell | not ur data |
| 21:14:17 | Patlabor221 | well even my OS? |
| 21:14:21 | Patlabor221 | or my services? |
| 21:14:26 | Patlabor221 | what does it buy me? |
| 21:14:35 | Patlabor221 | why is it better then having it local |
| 21:15:19 | Patlabor221 | it sounds "neat and cool" and all, but what techincaly makes it better? |
| 21:15:19 | PerfectCell | u could check who of ur friends is online, or u could check the airplane department times and so on |
| 21:15:34 | Patlabor221 | I can do that now with current services |
| 21:15:49 | PerfectCell | the point is it all uses a standard interface |
| 21:16:09 | Patlabor221 | that would be one hell of an iterface |
| 21:16:23 | PerfectCell | there is a xml interface description and a proxy generator for each available webservice |
| 21:16:45 | Patlabor221 | still all goes through HTTP |
| 21:16:49 | Patlabor221 | and that's not fast |
| 21:16:58 | Patlabor221 | not real time |
| 21:17:08 | PerfectCell | the proxy generator makes aobject out of the xml service descr that u can use to call the service methods immideatly |
| 21:17:40 | Patlabor221 | but how does it get data to and from the requestor? |
| 21:17:54 | Patlabor221 | and the requestor still has to use some front end |
| 21:18:00 | PerfectCell | there are many public UDDI servers u can browse for webservices u want |
| 21:18:22 | Patlabor221 | but it all goes through a browser right? |
| 21:18:25 | PerfectCell | get the xml service def(called wsdl) and use it |
| 21:18:48 | Patlabor221 | how do I personaly interact with it? |
| 21:20:19 | PerfectCell | u call methods of the proxy object generated by the wsdl service description(its metadata on public methods of the webservice so the proxy generator can make a local proxy object, lets say in c#) |
| 21:20:33 | Patlabor221 | I mean as an end user |
| 21:20:40 | Patlabor221 | not a programer |
| 21:21:00 | Patlabor221 | I get an app from some developer and run it? |
| 21:21:10 | PerfectCell | of coz |
| 21:21:23 | Patlabor221 | well I wasn't exactly sure what you were talking about |
| 21:21:29 | Patlabor221 | a "webservice" could be antying |
| 21:21:57 | Patlabor221 | I didn't know if you were talking about stuff through a web browser or what |
| 21:22:01 | PerfectCell | if u want to acces the HDisk u need a app too, but the service is provided by the OS, and a programmer can use it to build the app |
| 21:22:02 | Patlabor221 | rembeber we can't read your mind. |
| 21:22:53 | Patlabor221 | and I am suposed to trust that this service provider will keep that data secure? |
| 21:23:04 | PerfectCell | u could of cause acces a web service over the browser if the service supports this |
| 21:23:13 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 21:23:48 | Patlabor221 | and this is better then FTP or other existing standard interfaces because? |
| 21:24:17 | Chestal | hmm, da steh tüberall offline? |
| 21:24:19 | Chestal | oops |
| 21:25:14 | PerfectCell | lets say u want to use the yahoo search service in ur programm internally |
| 21:25:25 | Patlabor221 | ok I get it now |
| 21:25:43 | PerfectCell | so the difficulty right now is that there is no standardized interface to access this service |
| 21:25:46 | Patlabor221 | it sounds like its' more usefull for stuff like that then data |
| 21:27:25 | PerfectCell | if the yahoo search service is prowided as a webservice with a service def file (*.WSDL) then a proxy generator can make an object which methods u could use immidiately to search yahoo |
| 21:27:28 | Patlabor221 | tho if I wanted to use Yahhoo's search features in my app on local data, does it send my data to the service provider? |
| 21:28:17 | PerfectCell | only if u allow it of coz, u have to read the service doc |
| 21:28:22 | Patlabor221 | cus moslty I don't care about what's on the internet, mostly it's ads and porn |
| 21:28:41 | PerfectCell | but the internet is more then html |
| 21:28:51 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 21:28:56 | PerfectCell | lets imagine that someone has a render farm service |
| 21:29:14 | Patlabor221 | and how does this work finacaly? |
| 21:29:20 | PerfectCell | u could get a service descr (*.wsdl) |
| 21:29:28 | Patlabor221 | how do these service proiders make money? |
| 21:29:32 | PerfectCell | the build the proxy |
| 21:30:36 | PerfectCell | then call for example: Image img = Proxy.RenderImage(C:/Scene.3ds); |
| 21:30:48 | Patlabor221 | I get how it works? |
| 21:30:52 | PerfectCell | the scene is sent to the server by the proxy |
| 21:31:00 | PerfectCell | and u get the image back |
| 21:31:01 | Patlabor221 | I am just questioning if it's fiable |
| 21:31:04 | Patlabor221 | viable |
| 21:31:24 | PerfectCell | its the future |
| 21:31:30 | Patlabor221 | seems you would want to restrict that to your own aps in a comercal seting |
| 21:31:43 | Patlabor221 | or at least people who liscense it from you. |
| 21:32:24 | PerfectCell | big companies will make reliable services, that extend ur standard services(like HD access, network, admin services) of ur OS |
| 21:32:49 | Patlabor221 | how do they make money off of it |
| 21:33:15 | PerfectCell | oh u have to register |
| 21:33:29 | Patlabor221 | you would have to |
| 21:33:43 | Patlabor221 | or they would never do it |
| 21:33:50 | Patlabor221 | some people will |
| 21:33:54 | Patlabor221 | but bandwith isn't free |
| 21:34:27 | PerfectCell | u get a passport, there is a singel user passport(cheap mostly), or a multi user passport(so ur app always gets access to the service) |
| 21:34:43 | PerfectCell | even if u sell it |
| 21:35:14 | PerfectCell | so others can use the service for free( of coz they pay ur app and u pay the miulti user passport) |
| 21:35:47 | Patlabor221 | it's just a standard net query API then |
| 21:35:54 | Chestal | but this will only work for a small range of applications |
| 21:35:58 | Chestal | (for now) |
| 21:36:15 | Patlabor221 | I don't see it "revoutionising" the way we all work |
| 21:36:27 | PerfectCell | yes for now, but now will last not longer than 1 year |
| 21:36:35 | Chestal | well, we'll see what happens |
| 21:37:00 | Chestal | they're merely trying things now |
| 21:37:06 | Chestal | and see if it works |
| 21:37:14 | Patlabor221 | and this has to do with BZ flag how? :) |
| 21:37:17 | Chestal | today's solutions won't live very long |
| 21:37:24 | Patlabor221 | .net and C# are very young |
| 21:37:37 | Chestal | well, ou can do the same with java |
| 21:37:37 | PerfectCell | bu sun sticks to webservices too |
| 21:37:40 | Chestal | java is old now ;-) |
| 21:37:50 | Patlabor221 | and are people doing it? |
| 21:37:59 | PerfectCell | but it gets improved all the time |
| 21:38:07 | PerfectCell | of coz |
| 21:38:20 | Chestal | zhere's one problem I am having with all these java/.net/web services people |
| 21:38:35 | Chestal | they have some interestign ideas and put it together with mostly inferior technology |
| 21:38:43 | Chestal | but most of all they ar marketing guys |
| 21:38:53 | Chestal | they tell peopel this is the future and how great it all is |
| 21:38:58 | Chestal | but most of it (not all) is hot air |
| 21:38:59 | PerfectCell | inferior? |
| 21:39:03 | Chestal | yes, liek XML |
| 21:39:05 | Chestal | it#s a mess |
| 21:39:16 | PerfectCell | why? |
| 21:39:26 | Chestal | the whole web is a mess |
| 21:39:31 | Patlabor221 | it's ugly |
| 21:39:34 | PerfectCell | there is necessity for standards |
| 21:39:42 | PerfectCell | thats ur opinion |
| 21:39:46 | Chestal | yes, you can argue that even a bad standard is better than nothing |
| 21:39:49 | Chestal | but it stays bad |
| 21:40:03 | Chestal | this opinion is shared by a lot of clever people |
| 21:40:04 | PerfectCell | but u did not say way |
| 21:40:13 | PerfectCell | why? |
| 21:40:20 | Chestal | but anyway, it is used, it's the snatdard, everybody uses it, so you will have to use it, too |
| 21:40:47 | Chestal | wel, first of all, there's not really very much about XML |
| 21:41:00 | Chestal | but it's difficult to read for humans |
| 21:41:03 | Chestal | and slow to read for machines |
| 21:41:30 | Chestal | the onyl thing it buys you is language independence because a lot of peopel have written libs for dozens of languages |
| 21:41:35 | PerfectCell | thats true |
| 21:41:53 | Chestal | and a lot of languages that are defined on top of XML are jsut useless crap |
| 21:42:07 | Chestal | they consist of dozens of pages of formal langauage spec, but trey are just useless |
| 21:42:16 | Chestal | in the logn run, I guess the suitable ones will survive |
| 21:42:27 | Patlabor221 | why don't they do something in binary, that woudl be fast? |
| 21:43:07 | Patlabor221 | we all seem to be stuck on the concept of "man readable" |
| 21:43:10 | PerfectCell | but would be even harder to read by humans, and u can compress xml |
| 21:43:20 | Patlabor221 | why don't we let the computers help us? |
| 21:43:28 | PerfectCell | yes |
| 21:43:28 | Patlabor221 | why does it have to be read by humans? |
| 21:43:35 | Patlabor221 | in raw form? |
| 21:43:42 | Patlabor221 | we can't process it |
| 21:43:49 | PerfectCell | u are right, i thought the same |
| 21:44:14 | Patlabor221 | and even compresion, has problems, it's still has to be taken back to text to be read |
| 21:44:58 | Chestal | another problem (maybe more one of XML language creators): you never know when you use attributes and when you use text (don't know the correct terms) |
| 21:46:08 | PerfectCell | u should use attributes to describe the content of the tag |
| 21:46:54 | PerfectCell | <money currency='euro'>155</> |
| 21:47:13 | PerfectCell | attributes are just metadata |
| 21:47:16 | Chestal | yes, but in many languages which have been defined, it's quite a mess |
| 21:47:19 | Chestal | not logical |
| 21:47:27 | PerfectCell | that is true |
| 21:47:32 | Chestal | this may be more a problem of the peopel who defined those langauges than of XML itself |
| 21:47:52 | PerfectCell | because u cannot always distinquish between data and metadata |
| 21:48:09 | Chestal | I have ssen some XML with inline JAva, don't know what it#s called, but it sure is evil incarnate |
| 21:49:03 | captain_proton | wheee |
| 21:49:09 | captain_proton | streaming dvd's over the LAN is fun |
| 21:49:32 | Chestal | what badnwidth does this need? |
| 21:51:40 | captain_proton | about 700 kbps |
| 21:52:09 | Chestal | this is kilobytes I assume? |
| 21:52:27 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 23:09:14 | BZFlag | http://web.archive.org/web/19970526003516/http://reality.sgi.com/crs/bzflag.html |
| 23:11:26 | captain_proton | http://web.archive.org/web/19970618014444/reality.sgi.com/crs/bzflag_future.html <-- scary, i think we still have this laying around somewhere |
| 23:23:27 | BZFlag | heh. I added the history back into the wiki with the archive links: http://bzflag.org/wiki/ProjectHistory |
| 23:29:34 | Patlabor221 | sweet baby jesus and all the orphans... it compiles. |
| 23:29:53 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: ? |
| 23:30:10 | Patlabor221 | the BZflag moveable turret interface test |
| 23:30:18 | Patlabor221 | well specificly |
| 23:30:40 | Patlabor221 | the modification of that old world class. |
| 23:41:06 | captain_proton | Patlabor221: skybox me! |
| 23:45:58 | Patlabor221 | ftp.gibbscam.com/pub/outgoing/vizkit/skybox.zip |
| 23:46:12 | Patlabor221 | ohh you need new LGE too |
| 23:47:18 | Patlabor221 | LGE.zip and TextureManager.zip |
| 23:47:24 | Patlabor221 | they are in there too |
| 23:47:38 | Patlabor221 | and let me find an example usage |
| 23:50:36 | Patlabor221 | then usage.txt has a sample of how to use it |
| 23:50:49 | Patlabor221 | and Skyboxes.zip has a sample set of images |
| 23:51:43 | Patlabor221 | need to find out how to make them skyboxes in teragen |
| 23:53:24 | captain_proton | new LGE is api compatible |
| 23:53:25 | captain_proton | ? |
| 23:53:38 | Patlabor221 | API yes |
| 23:53:42 | Patlabor221 | there is a new file tho |
| 23:53:46 | Patlabor221 | the frustum cull one |
| 23:53:47 | captain_proton | k |
| 23:53:53 | Patlabor221 | didn't change any features |
| 23:53:53 | captain_proton | don't suppose you updated the makefile? :) |
| 23:54:01 | Patlabor221 | make what? |
| 23:54:02 | Patlabor221 | :) |
| 23:54:15 | Patlabor221 | I haven't tested it on lin at all yet |
| 23:54:26 | captain_proton | ah, likely some porting involved then |
| 23:54:26 | Patlabor221 | my current lin machine is too slow to realy use |
| 23:54:55 | Patlabor221 | I tried realy realy realy realy hard to follow what you set forth |
| 23:55:04 | Patlabor221 | so it should be not bad |
| 23:55:06 | Patlabor221 | I |
| 23:55:27 | Patlabor221 | I've even got in the habit of making sure my #includes are case proper |
| 23:55:48 | Patlabor221 | and I'm using more std::string intead of regular C string stuff. |
| 23:56:23 | Patlabor221 | tho I think there is a bug with overlay mode in LGE |
| 23:56:38 | Patlabor221 | often I screw my z buffer when I go into it. |
| 23:56:57 | Patlabor221 | older versions work, so I must have busted something, just havent found it yet. |
| 23:57:57 | captain_proton | hmm, i oughta finish up that font manager i was working on |
| 23:58:10 | Patlabor221 | that would be kewl |
| 23:58:23 | Patlabor221 | I have some changes to the pannel manager I need to hook up too |
| 23:58:30 | Patlabor221 | would be nice to put the font manager in that |
| 23:59:06 | Patlabor221 | then items could just specify a typeface |