| 09:05:21 | BZFlag | yeah, that's a killer. |
| 09:05:41 | Wilinckx_ | well... there was 1 player with a lag of 2seconds... |
| 09:05:47 | Wilinckx_ | (that was yesterday) |
| 09:06:12 | BZFlag | ouch. |
| 09:06:38 | BZFlag | the thing to watch on the server side is the lowest lagging player (not yourself if local though) |
| 09:06:55 | BZFlag | if that starts to climb, then your pipe is getting full. |
| 09:07:07 | BZFlag | server is set to require udp yes? |
| 09:07:35 | BZFlag | and 1.7e6 and newer clients will put less of a load on the server cause of the net changes. |
| 09:07:47 | BZFlag | so encourage people to upgrade. |
| 09:08:43 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 09:09:42 | Wilinckx_ | yes, it allow udp |
| 09:10:09 | Wilinckx_ | I have to go to learn now... |
| 09:11:02 | sussudio | grunts |
| 09:14:02 | BZFlag | Wilinckx-homewor: more that allow, you should have -requireudp for a server on a small pipe. |
| 09:32:17 | Wilinckx | aha. I have to force the use of utp.... |
| 09:33:39 | sussudio | bingo |
| 09:33:45 | Wilinckx | :-) |
| 09:34:05 | Wilinckx | right now, everyone is using udp I think (/playerlist) |
| 09:34:28 | sussudio | this extran sports drink is faul |
| 09:35:11 | sussudio | a-ha |
| 09:35:13 | sussudio | made in belgium |
| 09:35:23 | sussudio | you peed in it didnt you |
| 09:35:31 | Wilinckx | extran sports drink? what's that? |
| 09:35:52 | sussudio | nutricia drinks rijksweg 66 B 2880 BORNEM |
| 09:36:02 | Wilinckx | I don't know it |
| 09:36:16 | sussudio | it's yucky |
| 09:36:23 | Wilinckx | I don't know it |
| 09:36:44 | sussudio | seriously, why dont you make your own map |
| 09:37:14 | Wilinckx | editting it in vi ? |
| 09:37:24 | sussudio | *shrug*..... or bzedit |
| 09:37:41 | sussudio | it's like 10 mins work for a simple map |
| 09:37:47 | Wilinckx | bzedit is for the unstable debian... or do you know the location for the source? |
| 09:38:08 | sussudio | i'd try bzedit32 under wine first..... |
| 09:38:17 | sussudio | bzedit acts weird with my videodriver |
| 09:38:36 | Wilinckx | hmm |
| 09:38:46 | sussudio | and i just dont like gnome stuff |
| 09:39:04 | sussudio | dont even try installing the gnome2 libs in sarge or woody, i tried |
| 09:39:17 | sussudio | you end up with dependency hell |
| 09:39:58 | Wilinckx | hmmm..... |
| 09:40:10 | Wilinckx | but do you know the url where I can download the source? |
| 09:40:19 | sussudio | *shrug* |
| 09:42:25 | sussudio | most of my maps seem to be fps-killers for people |
| 09:44:20 | Wilinckx | ?? bzedit is no package for deb unstable! |
| 09:44:37 | sussudio | no i had to compile the damn thing |
| 09:44:50 | Wilinckx | aha. and where did you find the source? |
| 09:44:55 | sussudio | took me about 5 hours to get all the damn libs and tools before it did |
| 09:45:05 | sussudio | dont remember |
| 09:45:11 | Wilinckx | haaarch... |
| 09:45:15 | Wilinckx | I can't find the source :-( |
| 09:46:17 | sussudio | umm it's in the topic |
| 09:46:43 | Wilinckx | heh. What am I stupid today :-) |
| 09:47:04 | Wilinckx | thx a lot! |
| 09:47:26 | Wilinckx | good going... : configure: error: Cannot find gtkglarea |
| 09:47:45 | sussudio | have fun trying to figure out why it wont compile the first 35 times |
| 09:47:58 | Wilinckx | yeah... thank you... |
| 09:48:15 | Wilinckx | grmbl |
| 09:48:27 | Wilinckx | and euh... there is no pre-compiled version? |
| 09:48:33 | sussudio | let me see.... |
| 09:49:26 | sussudio | where the hell did it go..... |
| 09:50:50 | sussudio | whoa 2MB |
| 09:51:28 | sussudio | gzip good. |
| 09:51:36 | Wilinckx | yes :-) |
| 09:51:52 | sussudio | it's going to whine about libs though. |
| 09:52:30 | Wilinckx | och, I am now at step 2... |
| 09:52:47 | sussudio | it needs like 35 gnome libs or something |
| 09:53:06 | sussudio | at least, it seemed that way at the time |
| 09:53:28 | sussudio | since i had KDE installed :-B |
| 09:53:30 | Wilinckx | thank you for oploading it :-) |
| 09:53:34 | sussudio | k |
| 09:55:16 | Wilinckx | shure it isn't a virus that you uplaoded ;-) |
| 09:55:31 | Wilinckx | virus depends on libgnomeui-2.so.0 ;-) |
| 09:55:50 | sussudio | er? |
| 09:55:52 | Wilinckx | HAAA DMND |
| 09:56:04 | Wilinckx | that file isn't a debian package i think |
| 09:56:26 | sussudio | well all that gnome2 shit is in SID |
| 09:56:45 | Wilinckx | dmned |
| 09:57:15 | Wilinckx | uhm... I think I'm not going to install a whole SID |
| 09:57:19 | sussudio | nope |
| 09:57:21 | sussudio | sid sux |
| 09:57:30 | Wilinckx | yeah idd |
| 09:57:35 | sussudio | i wish i hadnt |
| 09:57:45 | Wilinckx | i runned a debian unstalbe 1 time in my live... Never again. |
| 09:57:47 | Wilinckx | testing is OK |
| 10:00:31 | Wilinckx | hey?? |
| 10:00:33 | Wilinckx | http://www.bzflag.org/ >> 404 |
| 10:02:09 | Wilinckx | and http://bzflag.sourceforge.net >> cannot connect |
| 10:02:20 | sussudio | dunno |
| 10:02:32 | Wilinckx | hmmm.... |
| 10:07:51 | sussudio | just put the damn thing on a local webserver :-| |
| 10:08:14 | Wilinckx | ? |
| 10:08:29 | sussudio | make a html file with bzflist://166.70.15.250:5156/ in it |
| 10:08:34 | Wilinckx | ah yes |
| 10:08:37 | sussudio | make bzflag point to it |
| 10:08:41 | Wilinckx | no, it's for screenshots |
| 10:08:50 | sussudio | hmm k |
| 10:08:56 | Wilinckx | :-) |
| 10:18:03 | sussudio | roomboter gevulde rondo's |
| 10:18:04 | sussudio | hmm |
| 10:18:15 | sussudio | death by cookie |
| 12:41:32 | bzgirl | hello |
| 12:49:27 | Wilinckx | hey |
| 14:02:49 | Chestal | hi |
| 14:04:30 | sussudio | lo? |
| 14:07:03 | bh | good morning |
| 14:07:14 | bzgirl | hi blackhoud |
| 14:07:14 | Chestal | good afternoon |
| 14:07:16 | bh | what's up with bzflag.org? |
| 14:07:33 | bh | hi bzgirl, Chestal |
| 14:10:58 | sussudio | bzflag.org is a bit screwy |
| 14:11:08 | sussudio | you mean not getting the server list, right? |
| 14:11:16 | bh | nope, the web site |
| 14:11:34 | sussudio | k |
| 14:14:32 | bh | wow there is mac os port already, way to go |
| 14:16:41 | bh | would it be too hard to add ESD support to bzflag? |
| 14:17:15 | Chestal | what's ESD? |
| 14:17:32 | bh | enlightment sounds daemon |
| 14:18:06 | Chestal | would probably be easy, I don't know |
| 14:18:10 | Chestal | but IMHO sound daemons are evil |
| 14:18:25 | bh | how come? |
| 14:18:34 | Chestal | whenever I tried one, I had delay issues, and - what's more important - problems when using different sampelrates |
| 14:18:43 | Chestal | like 44.1 and 48kHz using the same daemon |
| 14:18:55 | Chestal | it obviously tried to to live resampling, but in a _very_ crappy way |
| 14:19:14 | Chestal | soudn hardware should support 3 or more channels |
| 14:19:16 | bh | hmmm... was it a long time ago? |
| 14:19:22 | Chestal | at least my does 2, which is sufficient for me |
| 14:19:35 | Chestal | bh: resampling problem half a year ago with esd |
| 14:19:49 | bh | ok |
| 14:20:03 | Chestal | I don't know if there are superior daemons out there now, AFAIK as I read everyoen agreed that the ESD implemantion sucked big way |
| 14:20:14 | Chestal | I think I remember somethign like ASD |
| 14:20:21 | bh | arts |
| 14:20:36 | bh | the KDE one, which I avoid hehe |
| 14:20:50 | Chestal | does your soudncard only have one DSP? |
| 14:20:58 | bh | yeah |
| 14:21:08 | Chestal | the soudnblaster live is nice, it has 16 |
| 14:21:42 | MrCooper | Chestal: does ducati protect against too many connection attempts or something? |
| 14:21:59 | bh | my MOBO only has 3 PCI slots (tv card, scsi and nic), my sounds card is awe gold (ISA) |
| 14:22:09 | Chestal | MrCooper: hmm, no |
| 14:22:16 | MrCooper | Chestal: please put up a nice map for us :) |
| 14:22:37 | Chestal | I have onboard sound, SB 128 |
| 14:22:57 | sussudio | bzflag sounds like crap under KDE |
| 14:23:09 | Chestal | probably resampling |
| 14:23:16 | sussudio | i get crappy 8 bit mono sound with artsd |
| 14:23:17 | Chestal | but I wonder why the live resamplign is so crappy everywhere |
| 14:23:22 | Chestal | same with directsound on windows |
| 14:23:33 | Chestal | AFAIK a simpel linear interpolation should be sufficient |
| 14:24:46 | sussudio | bzflag is unplayable with mono sound... you cant hear where the shots are coming from |
| 14:25:35 | Chestal | hmm, I wonder if that makes a difference for me |
| 14:25:43 | Chestal | it sure is harder to play without sound |
| 14:25:45 | sussudio | it does for me |
| 14:25:59 | sussudio | i get good stereo sound under win2k |
| 14:26:06 | Chestal | it's more important for me to play music during play :-) |
| 14:27:41 | sussudio | note: bread turns into green dust when left alone for about 2 months |
| 14:27:53 | Chestal | how does it taste? |
| 14:28:01 | sussudio | i havent tried |
| 14:28:07 | sussudio | it smells like penicilline |
| 14:28:33 | Chestal | hmm, I don't even know what penic. smells like |
| 14:28:46 | sussudio | probably like a biology or chemistry lab |
| 14:28:56 | sussudio | bittery smell |
| 14:29:18 | sussudio | similar to the smell you get when you drive into Delft |
| 14:29:21 | Chestal | right now I cannot really smell anything anyway |
| 14:29:39 | sussudio | Gist-Brocades makes penicilline and other medicine there |
| 14:30:35 | sussudio | you could always set an asprin on fire to get a similar smell |
| 14:32:59 | Chestal | full moon - beware |
| 14:35:01 | bzgirl | Chestal: who's Ill on the moles? |
| 14:40:09 | strayer | hi all... :) |
| 14:59:48 | Wilinckx | hi ;- |
| 14:59:49 | Wilinckx | ) |
| 15:04:32 | strayer | hi Wilinckx ...new here? |
| 15:12:17 | strayer | ... |
| 15:42:07 | bh | anyone knows how to make ctags scan a whole dir tree? |
| 15:49:42 | MrCooper | I usually do rm TAGS; for i in c h; do find -name \*.$i -type f|xargs etags -a; done |
| 15:49:54 | MrCooper | dunno if that works for ctags as well |
| 15:50:34 | bh | let's see |
| 15:50:41 | bh | thanks |
| 15:50:49 | MrCooper | np |
| 16:22:00 | pnm | ibot: bzflist |
| 16:22:01 | | pnm: bzbody.dedicatedpenguin.com:5155(1) ds9.asms-ltd.co.uk:5155(3) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(8) bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(6) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(16) chardonnay.math.bme.hu:5155(5) |
| 16:57:21 | doughecka | hm |
| 16:57:26 | doughecka | anyone alive right now? |
| 17:06:39 | Wilinckx | now: yes :-) |
| 17:06:54 | doughecka | ah |
| 17:07:07 | doughecka | wonders what the most powerfull grafics card is now |
| 17:07:19 | Wilinckx | expensive |
| 17:07:23 | doughecka | heh |
| 17:07:27 | doughecka | yea, but what IS it? |
| 17:07:29 | Wilinckx | I'm trying my new server |
| 17:07:32 | sussudio | well bzedit32 under wine doesnt work |
| 17:07:32 | doughecka | oh? |
| 17:07:33 | Wilinckx | I don't know |
| 17:07:38 | doughecka | sussudio: slick |
| 17:08:38 | Wilinckx | damned... my server can't get in the server list :-( |
| 17:15:37 | doughecka | yo CaptainNoPants |
| 17:15:53 | doughecka | whats the fastest video card now? |
| 17:18:17 | doughecka | CaptainNoPants: bzedit32 dont work in wine, says sussudio |
| 17:19:14 | doughecka | is the fastest chip the The Radeon 9700 PRO ? |
| 17:19:40 | CaptainNoPants | who what where? |
| 17:19:59 | doughecka | ?!?!?!? |
| 17:21:34 | CaptainNoPants | yes the 9700 is the fastest one out there |
| 17:21:39 | bh | hullo again |
| 17:21:42 | doughecka | k |
| 17:21:52 | CaptainNoPants | for the moment |
| 17:21:52 | doughecka | how much does it go for? |
| 17:21:59 | CaptainNoPants | $400 |
| 17:22:04 | doughecka | WEEE |
| 17:22:08 | CaptainNoPants | yup |
| 17:22:13 | doughecka | takes a look at the geforce4ti4600 |
| 17:22:28 | CaptainNoPants | it's more efective to get a 900 or a TI4600 for like 150 |
| 17:22:34 | CaptainNoPants | dorry 9000 |
| 17:22:47 | doughecka | 9000? how good is that? |
| 17:22:49 | CaptainNoPants | where you geting the money for a good card? |
| 17:22:51 | doughecka | thats ATI right? |
| 17:23:04 | doughecka | CaptainNoPants: I aint, I am just wonderin |
| 17:23:11 | CaptainNoPants | ATI is the chip mfg, difrent people make the cards |
| 17:23:26 | doughecka | nvidia is that same too, right? |
| 17:23:31 | CaptainNoPants | yes |
| 17:23:44 | CaptainNoPants | but the ATI drivers kinda suck |
| 17:23:48 | doughecka | ah |
| 17:23:58 | bh | on linux? |
| 17:24:05 | doughecka | I like nvidia better, since I never tried a ATI card.. |
| 17:24:07 | CaptainNoPants | expecialy on linux |
| 17:24:10 | doughecka | heh |
| 17:24:25 | CaptainNoPants | DRI on lin blows the goats |
| 17:24:26 | bh | even with DRI? |
| 17:24:28 | doughecka | brb |
| 17:24:39 | CaptainNoPants | DRI is the problem |
| 17:24:57 | CaptainNoPants | dosn't even have a full gl implementaion |
| 17:25:18 | CaptainNoPants | at least with the nvidia cards you can get drivers, tho they can sometimes be a pain to install |
| 17:25:19 | bh | it ain't easy I guess |
| 17:25:51 | bh | my PC at the office has a matrox g300, it's damn slow, but I can play bz |
| 17:26:04 | bh | and that's an old video card |
| 17:26:16 | bh | g200 |
| 17:26:57 | CaptainNoPants | still BZ isn't exactly pusing poly levels |
| 17:27:09 | CaptainNoPants | it's more limited by it's world database handaling. |
| 17:27:35 | CaptainNoPants | hell I can play BZ on a P80 with a TNT2 |
| 17:28:23 | bh | all the heavy lifting is done on the video card |
| 17:28:32 | doughecka | ok, so I am getting 2 cases from a friend.. |
| 17:28:41 | doughecka | grins |
| 17:28:47 | doughecka | all I need is a hard drive |
| 17:28:56 | doughecka | can I run a comptuer without a video card? |
| 17:29:01 | bh | yeah |
| 17:29:08 | doughecka | how? |
| 17:29:34 | sussudio | wine.bin: radeon_ioctl.h:167: radeonAllocCmdBuf: Assertion `rmesa->dri.drmMinor >= 3' failed. |
| 17:29:42 | sussudio | balls |
| 17:29:43 | bh | welll, just plug the monitor on the floppy port |
| 17:29:56 | doughecka | oh? |
| 17:30:05 | doughecka | sniffs the air... smoke |
| 17:30:09 | doughecka | :P |
| 17:30:12 | bh | hehe |
| 17:30:16 | doughecka | is away: brb |
| 17:32:12 | bh | I have like 3 trident pci cards in a box here |
| 17:33:40 | sussudio | Liquid Nitrogen Beats Air Cooling (Again) |
| 17:33:48 | sussudio | from the don't-try-this-at-home dept. |
| 17:33:49 | sussudio | no. |
| 17:34:00 | sussudio | it's from the laws-of-goddamn-physics dept. |
| 17:34:16 | sussudio | mkay roblimo..... |
| 17:54:57 | CaptainNoPants | what hapens if you jump on top of a teleporter? |
| 17:55:15 | sussudio | same as a box |
| 17:55:35 | CaptainNoPants | k thanks. |
| 17:57:04 | sussudio | is puzzled by google |
| 17:57:13 | sussudio | i entered " wine.bin: radeon_ioctl.h:167: radeonAllocCmdBuf: Assertion `rmesa->dri.drmMinor >= 3' failed." as search.......... |
| 17:57:26 | sussudio | and i get as results |
| 17:57:27 | sussudio | Watch and Download Porn Movies |
| 17:57:27 | sussudio | Online. Never Rent a PornVHS Again! |
| 17:57:27 | sussudio | www.PornDriveIn.Com |
| 17:57:40 | sussudio | and |
| 17:57:40 | sussudio | Stock Market Timing |
| 17:57:41 | sussudio | Learn More from Professional Advice |
| 17:57:41 | sussudio | Free Market Bulletins and Reports |
| 17:57:46 | CaptainNoPants | all google serches allways distill down to porn. |
| 17:59:09 | sussudio | i thought that was altavista |
| 17:59:20 | CaptainNoPants | I think they are all the same thing rely |
| 18:10:19 | Cell_prog_insect | im making a state diagram for a user mouse manipulatin a 3d object, but i dont know how to do it, since i always run into the situation that my state transitions(action) is dependent on the result of what happens in the state transition, i really need help on this, since the user interaction gets really complex |
| 18:11:02 | CaptainNoPants | what? |
| 18:11:18 | bh | Cell_prog_insect: get a book on automatas, state machines and stuff |
| 18:11:25 | Cell_prog_insect | u know state diagramms, state machiene |
| 18:11:59 | CaptainNoPants | I know what state macines are, but man, you can't just dump all that out in one shot |
| 18:12:12 | CaptainNoPants | not when I have a headake like this :) |
| 18:12:13 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, sorry |
| 18:12:50 | CaptainNoPants | sounds like you have recursive states |
| 18:13:19 | Cell_prog_insect | what is that? |
| 18:13:59 | Cell_prog_insect | the situation is the following: |
| 18:14:28 | Cell_prog_insect | i have a 3d object drawed on screen, |
| 18:14:48 | Cell_prog_insect | there is a method to check if the cursor is over the object |
| 18:14:56 | Cell_prog_insect | or not |
| 18:15:16 | Cell_prog_insect | and the object can be in selected or nonselected state |
| 18:16:10 | T-34 | Hello tankriders! |
| 18:16:14 | Cell_prog_insect | if it is in selected state it displayes a selection box, and has the varaible object.selected set too true |
| 18:16:14 | bh | hey T-34 |
| 18:16:35 | T-34 | Riseman, Almogaver, Satan, Arathorn? |
| 18:16:44 | T-34 | anyone? |
| 18:16:49 | T-34 | Saw them? |
| 18:16:53 | Chestal | no |
| 18:16:55 | bh | nope |
| 18:16:57 | Cell_prog_insect | also if it is selected the object displays an axis tripoid |
| 18:16:59 | bh | not in a long time |
| 18:16:59 | T-34 | nuffffffff |
| 18:17:15 | T-34 | I must find another team...:( |
| 18:17:21 | Cell_prog_insect | oh i give up its far to complicated to be discussed here |
| 18:17:27 | Chestal | I messaged SATAN a few weeks ago |
| 18:17:48 | Cell_prog_insect | who is SATAN? |
| 18:18:02 | Chestal | former leader of esquipo hispano |
| 18:18:03 | Cell_prog_insect | not a name of a cutie |
| 18:18:04 | T-34 | 3 weeks ago they sent a short message but nothing after that |
| 18:18:45 | Chestal | I asked him why he dismantled the team |
| 18:18:56 | bzgirl | same as Satan evil twin or different guy? |
| 18:19:06 | T-34 | a different guy |
| 18:19:06 | Chestal | different |
| 18:19:17 | bzgirl | oh |
| 18:19:18 | Chestal | didn't see him play for ages |
| 18:19:23 | T-34 | he's simply Satan |
| 18:19:39 | Chestal | a good player, though a bit laggy, like all of hIs :-) |
| 18:20:00 | T-34 | yeap a little laggy but good tankdrivers...:) |
| 18:20:27 | bh | and they are all in europe |
| 18:20:50 | T-34 | and remember that some of us are still using the old russian tanks from wwII |
| 18:21:09 | Chestal | some peopel jsut vanish from bz |
| 18:21:18 | Chestal | even one of my teammates is gone for some months |
| 18:21:25 | Chestal | I have no idea what happened to him |
| 18:21:28 | T-34 | and not modern german equipment like the moles |
| 18:21:59 | T-34 | yeap Chestal I saw |
| 18:22:05 | bh | avengers make their own tanks, like in junkyard wars |
| 18:22:09 | bh | that is why we are crappy |
| 18:22:13 | bzgirl | hehe |
| 18:22:17 | T-34 | I was out for a few weeks and a lot of people dissaper |
| 18:22:56 | Chestal | hmm, I found old email address of Comanche, I guess I'll drop him a few lines |
| 18:23:04 | T-34 | I really don't understand why cause BZ is the coolest game I ever play |
| 18:23:07 | Chestal | T-34: on the positive side, new people are joining |
| 18:23:22 | bzgirl | there is a new team lst week too |
| 18:23:28 | bzgirl | last* |
| 18:23:30 | T-34 | yeap but the old gang... |
| 18:24:22 | Chestal | bzgirl: new team? |
| 18:24:29 | bzgirl | yep, |
| 18:24:42 | T-34 | bzgirl: I received a few invitations to join to new teams and I saw that are a lot of new teams |
| 18:24:50 | bzgirl | dmp,huh,duh,deadmeat and smiliy face guy |
| 18:25:05 | bzgirl | procarstination they are called i think |
| 18:25:06 | T-34 | but I don't understand where the old ones are! |
| 18:25:10 | Chestal | ah, the prost..whatever |
| 18:25:15 | bzgirl | yeah |
| 18:25:15 | Chestal | yep |
| 18:25:25 | Chestal | such a difficult word I cannot remember :-) |
| 18:25:27 | bzgirl | we play them next week, tentatively |
| 18:25:33 | bzgirl | har har |
| 18:25:46 | Chestal | what are your thoghts about the 2 vs 2 issue? |
| 18:25:59 | doughecka | I LIKE IT!!! |
| 18:26:04 | bzgirl | i dunno really, i like 3 better in theory |
| 18:26:05 | doughecka | points at the op |
| 18:26:06 | Chestal | do you think it's a good idea to get some life backinto the league? |
| 18:26:14 | doughecka | how about 1v1? |
| 18:26:16 | doughecka | I like that |
| 18:26:21 | bzgirl | well, we need to do something for sure |
| 18:26:29 | T-34 | I think 2 vs 2 it's too easy to capture the flag |
| 18:26:32 | Chestal | 1 vs 1 is in the planning, just waiting for Valoche to find soem time to overhaul his web scripts |
| 18:26:34 | T-34 | try on Ducati |
| 18:26:53 | Ginku | I see SATAN on ducati 5156 |
| 18:27:04 | Chestal | indeed, he is on right now |
| 18:27:07 | T-34 | thx Ginku |
| 18:27:09 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 18:27:09 | doughecka | ibot ducati |
| 18:27:22 | doughecka | ibot bzfquery ducati.bzflag.org:5156 |
| 18:27:23 | | doughecka: R:0(1-1) G:0(1-1) huh(G)-12(16-28) plani(R)-15(37-52) DeadMeat(G)-1(133-134) BeZee(R)1(19-18) FantaZee(R)28(58-30) Ginku(R)5(9-4) SATAN(G)-1(6-7) |
| 18:27:26 | doughecka | bah |
| 18:27:28 | doughecka | ? |
| 18:27:35 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 18:27:35 | doughecka | ibot ducati |
| 18:27:36 | bzbot | huh (G): -12 (16-28). plani (R): -16 (37-53). DeadMeat (G): 0 (135-135). @T (B): 0 (0-0). BeZee (R): 0 (19-19). FantaZee (R): 30 (61-31). Ginku (R): 4 (9-5). SATAN (G): 0 (8-8). Frenchie (G): 0 (0-0). |
| 18:27:40 | doughecka | ah |
| 18:27:50 | doughecka | haha, chestall started bzbot |
| 18:28:06 | Chestal | doughecka: I resetted him, he seemd to have been messed up |
| 18:28:10 | Chestal | not my fault, it's not my code :-) |
| 18:28:21 | doughecka | hehe |
| 18:28:31 | bzgirl | how is the one vs one going to work? like maps? the teleporter one? |
| 18:28:47 | doughecka | plain ducati no CTF type |
| 18:28:57 | bzgirl | ahh |
| 18:29:00 | bzgirl | jumping? |
| 18:29:02 | Chestal | not 100% sure |
| 18:29:07 | doughecka | sure |
| 18:29:16 | bzgirl | i cant jump good :( |
| 18:29:25 | Chestal | but likely similar to ducati 5155 (liek it used to be, 1 shot now) |
| 18:29:39 | Chestal | I don't know, whether teleporters are a good idea |
| 18:29:45 | T-34 | white girls can't jump...;) |
| 18:29:50 | bzgirl | :) |
| 18:29:55 | Chestal | and we still haven't decided about when a game is over, liek timed game or play to a certain score |
| 18:30:04 | T-34 | Yo Satan |
| 18:30:06 | SATAN | hi |
| 18:30:06 | doughecka | heya Patlabor221 |
| 18:30:09 | Chestal | heh SATAN |
| 18:30:14 | Patlabor221 | hello |
| 18:30:16 | bh | talking about the devil |
| 18:30:28 | SATAN | I don't konw about others 3 or 4 months ago |
| 18:31:22 | Chestal | anyone really tried to play 2 vs 2 CTF? |
| 18:31:36 | Chestal | I would liek to know, whether it would work |
| 18:31:45 | bzgirl | its too hard to defend i think |
| 18:31:51 | Chestal | mauyeb we should try on 59999? |
| 18:31:54 | Chestal | for a few minutes |
| 18:31:57 | bzgirl | sure |
| 18:32:26 | Chestal | who else? |
| 18:33:11 | bzgirl | bh? |
| 18:34:17 | Chestal | hmm, I'll join 5156 and look for two players |
| 18:35:07 | T-34 | Chestal I'd like to try |
| 18:35:25 | Chestal | hmm, I guess I have to many palyers now |
| 18:35:31 | Chestal | feel free to join now :-) |
| 18:35:33 | Chestal | bzgirl, ok? |
| 18:35:36 | bzgirl | ok |
| 18:35:42 | bzgirl | there poeple there |
| 18:36:25 | Chestal | 59999 |
| 18:36:30 | bzgirl | yup |
| 18:36:46 | doughecka | lunch! |
| 18:38:13 | Patlabor221 | needs a new case |
| 19:00:54 | akira_ | moinsen |
| 19:01:25 | akira_ | hello ginku, chest, girl, patty, widget, coop cpn and bh ... and ibot s there also :) |
| 19:01:32 | akira_ | ibot: bzflist |
| 19:01:32 | | akira_: jzaun.com:5155(4) bzbody.dedicatedpenguin.com:5155(5) ducati.bzflag.org:5156(7) bzflag.noodleroni.com:5155(3) larry.yi.org:5155(3) turkey.moongroup.com:7500(8) bzflag.freebsdtips.com:6666(2) chardonnay.math.bme.hu:5155(14) |
| 19:01:39 | Widget | hihihi, akira_. |
| 19:02:16 | bh | hi akira_ |
| 19:02:17 | akira_ | ibot: bzfquery ducati.bzflag.org:5156 |
| 19:02:19 | | akira_: R:0(1-1) G:0(1-1) bzlynx(G)-4(9-13) Elgen(R)1(40-39) T-34(R:The Dismissed Equipo Hispano)2(17-15) GomezZ(R)-14(34-48) MIRELLA(G)13(34-21) air pillow insoles(G)0(7-7) Satan's Evil Twin(R)-2(3-5) |
| 19:03:16 | bzgirl | hi akira |
| 19:03:35 | akira_ | bh how was the game ? |
| 19:04:06 | akira_ | hello girl |
| 19:04:11 | akira_ | did you win vs zees? |
| 19:04:15 | bzgirl | ha |
| 19:04:15 | akira_ | how was 2vs2? |
| 19:04:16 | bzgirl | no |
| 19:04:29 | bzgirl | the map was very tough |
| 19:04:36 | bzgirl | and so were they |
| 19:04:44 | bzgirl | so we didnt win |
| 19:04:51 | akira_ | hey... they are the zees :) |
| 19:04:59 | akira_ | only team which beat the moles :( |
| 19:05:04 | bzgirl | I never played them before |
| 19:05:12 | bzgirl | i thought the loops beat you no? |
| 19:05:24 | akira_ | the loops nope |
| 19:05:45 | captain_proton | chuckles at sussudio's endless complaining due to debian's bass-ackwardness |
| 19:06:46 | sussudio | pities captain_proton |
| 19:06:54 | akira_ | the legendary zees won vs moles 5-3 on 9th of june |
| 19:07:07 | captain_proton | sussudio: because i actually have a working system? |
| 19:07:44 | bzgirl | akira_: i hope you looked that up, and not actually rememberd it! |
| 19:07:53 | sussudio | sure, that must be it. |
| 19:08:00 | captain_proton | ok, just checking |
| 19:08:05 | captain_proton | goes back to something useful |
| 19:08:18 | sussudio | leaves captain_proton in ignorant bliss |
| 19:08:50 | akira_ | bzgirl i looked it up .. but i knew it was the zee-blamage of us .. |
| 19:09:41 | bh | it was hard |
| 19:17:21 | bh | is away: I'm busy |
| 19:25:39 | Cell_prog_insect | yes i did it |
| 19:25:42 | Cell_prog_insect | it works |
| 19:26:55 | akira_ | what? |
| 19:26:56 | Cell_prog_insect | now there is only one problem left to find a solution, i solver two of them today |
| 19:27:19 | Cell_prog_insect | akira_:translating a 3d object with mouse |
| 19:28:05 | Cell_prog_insect | using the x axis arrow to drag into along x and same for y z |
| 19:28:23 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect aaah |
| 19:28:47 | Cell_prog_insect | the other problem was zoom selection, now works |
| 19:29:09 | Cell_prog_insect | i looked very close at the opengl projection matrix |
| 19:29:54 | akira_ | you wanted what? |
| 19:29:55 | Cell_prog_insect | and discovered that the z/w divide has consequencies on the depth buffer, its not linear |
| 19:30:19 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect this info is available in the red book :) |
| 19:30:28 | akira_ | its log - linear :) |
| 19:31:16 | Cell_prog_insect | i was concerned about what happens to the z coordinate of points that are in the interval [0,zNear[ |
| 19:31:51 | akira_ | i think 0 is a legal value .. but dont try negatives :) |
| 19:31:51 | Cell_prog_insect | how they are projected |
| 19:32:22 | Cell_prog_insect | no 0 is not a legal value its projection is z = infinity |
| 19:32:56 | Cell_prog_insect | positive values are legal they are projected on positive values |
| 19:33:06 | akira_ | i dont remember anything in the book .. but if i remember the formula right you are right |
| 19:33:59 | Cell_prog_insect | z > 0 after projection z > (zFar+zNear)/(zFar-zNear) > 1 |
| 19:34:26 | Cell_prog_insect | if 0>zNear>zFar |
| 19:34:43 | Cell_prog_insect | if 0<zNear<zFar, sorry |
| 19:35:28 | Cell_prog_insect | its not that easy, but i drawed it all as fuctions, now its clear |
| 19:35:55 | Cell_prog_insect | drawed/drawn |
| 19:37:30 | Cell_prog_insect | its not in the book, i had to figure out all myself |
| 19:37:39 | Cell_prog_insect | but now i know |
| 19:39:38 | akira_ | whats not in the book? the nonlinear z buffer stuff is .. |
| 19:41:14 | Cell_prog_insect | no, the trick, to divide the z coordinate with w after projection, its all very tricky, since its not necessary |
| 19:41:35 | Cell_prog_insect | its only necessary to divide x and y with w |
| 19:42:13 | Cell_prog_insect | to simulate the projection |
| 19:43:21 | akira_ | i am very tired at the moment -> what did you want to do?? |
| 19:43:29 | akira_ | still dont get it at the moment |
| 19:43:36 | Cell_prog_insect | i do my own hit testing |
| 19:43:50 | akira_ | how? |
| 19:44:00 | akira_ | build a very small projmatrix around the cursor pos? |
| 19:44:06 | Cell_prog_insect | i test if a mouse cursor is over an object |
| 19:44:22 | Cell_prog_insect | no i cast a ray |
| 19:44:56 | akira_ | take screen coords and trace it back in world coords? |
| 19:44:58 | Cell_prog_insect | i transform(project) all geometry(triangles) to device space |
| 19:45:19 | Cell_prog_insect | and the screend cooardinates back to device space too |
| 19:45:30 | akira_ | and this is fast? |
| 19:45:34 | Cell_prog_insect | yes |
| 19:45:39 | captain_proton | why do it yourself like that? |
| 19:45:40 | Cell_prog_insect | its like drawing |
| 19:45:48 | captain_proton | there's a reason for glName |
| 19:46:00 | Cell_prog_insect | because i need the z coordinate of a hit if a hit occures |
| 19:46:04 | akira_ | captain_proton :) |
| 19:46:14 | akira_ | the z comes along |
| 19:46:19 | Cell_prog_insect | and glSelection does not give u the z coordinate |
| 19:46:33 | Patlabor221 | I think it does |
| 19:46:42 | akira_ | i think it does too |
| 19:46:43 | Cell_prog_insect | it just tells u what is in the clip box |
| 19:46:48 | Cell_prog_insect | no |
| 19:46:53 | Cell_prog_insect | read |
| 19:46:55 | akira_ | it tells you whats above the cell box |
| 19:46:58 | Patlabor221 | it's in the data list |
| 19:46:59 | captain_proton | and even if it doesn't, if you do the raycast after glSelection, you only have to transform one polygon |
| 19:47:14 | Patlabor221 | what about the feedback mode? |
| 19:47:17 | Cell_prog_insect | not one |
| 19:47:24 | Cell_prog_insect | maybe a few, yes |
| 19:47:42 | captain_proton | Cell_prog_insect: you know which polygon the hit is on, so... |
| 19:47:59 | Cell_prog_insect | but u get more then one mostly |
| 19:48:11 | Cell_prog_insect | because the can overlapp |
| 19:48:29 | Cell_prog_insect | or there are polygons underneath a polygon |
| 19:48:32 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect you will get the z .. definitivly .. i did it |
| 19:48:51 | Cell_prog_insect | no u get only the z of the closeset vertex |
| 19:48:59 | Cell_prog_insect | not the intersection point z |
| 19:50:12 | Cell_prog_insect | but wait maybe if the clipping region is [x,x][y,y][-1,1] then it could work |
| 19:50:24 | Cell_prog_insect | a ray cube, or just a line |
| 19:51:09 | akira_ | the standard is to define a very small "viewing" frustum around the mouse coords ... |
| 19:51:16 | Cell_prog_insect | yes i know |
| 19:51:22 | akira_ | so its your ray |
| 19:51:29 | Cell_prog_insect | but it clips against this frustum |
| 19:51:48 | Cell_prog_insect | and yelds the closest vertex of the clipped triangle |
| 19:51:59 | Cell_prog_insect | in z |
| 19:52:02 | Cell_prog_insect | direction |
| 19:52:11 | akira_ | i must read the specs again ... |
| 19:52:16 | Cell_prog_insect | not the actual hit point z |
| 19:52:26 | Cell_prog_insect | im sure about it, i read it |
| 19:52:43 | Cell_prog_insect | cause it does not rasterize or make fragments in selection mode |
| 19:52:51 | Cell_prog_insect | it just clips |
| 19:53:45 | akira_ | wait |
| 19:54:24 | Cell_prog_insect | of coz if i would do it like patlobor221 in his bzflag editor, i would not care about exact hit point, i could use a pick frustum and get something over my mouse or not |
| 19:55:23 | Patlabor221 | I just did normal GL picking |
| 19:55:27 | Patlabor221 | get the topmost |
| 19:55:30 | Cell_prog_insect | i know |
| 19:55:34 | Cell_prog_insect | i saw ur code |
| 19:57:53 | Cell_prog_insect | earlier, if i remember it right, software opengl used a win32 blit function to copy the bacbuffer to the window |
| 19:58:22 | Cell_prog_insect | it displayed the image wrong |
| 19:59:05 | Cell_prog_insect | bottom top istead of top bottom, due to the win down facing positive y axis |
| 19:59:27 | Cell_prog_insect | so u had to set the glViewport right |
| 19:59:37 | Cell_prog_insect | now its not needed any longer |
| 20:00:08 | Cell_prog_insect | u set the viewport glViewport(0,0,window.Width, Window.Height) |
| 20:00:27 | Cell_prog_insect | and it draws it correctly to the front buffer |
| 20:00:33 | captain_proton | runs away |
| 20:00:55 | Cell_prog_insect | cause it copies it on the device, bypassing win32 blit :) |
| 20:01:03 | Cell_prog_insect | thats what i asked myself |
| 20:01:10 | Cell_prog_insect | and discovered |
| 20:02:45 | Cell_prog_insect | but software gl could still make it wrong |
| 20:03:08 | akira_ | if you have some minutes time i would be glad to have a mail with more detail information ... |
| 20:03:11 | akira_ | possible? |
| 20:04:33 | Cell_prog_insect | about what? |
| 20:04:37 | Cell_prog_insect | exactly |
| 20:04:39 | akira_ | your picking |
| 20:04:46 | Cell_prog_insect | k |
| 20:04:51 | akira_ | all the stuff you told us right now :) |
| 20:04:56 | akira_ | still have my mail? |
| 20:05:01 | Cell_prog_insect | no |
| 20:05:11 | Cell_prog_insect | forgot it |
| 20:05:28 | akira_ | a db or a adressbook could help :) |
| 20:05:46 | Cell_prog_insect | i know, but im lazy on that |
| 20:08:15 | Perfect_Why_the_ | i found ur email |
| 20:08:25 | Perfect_Why_the_ | in my sent stuff |
| 20:08:59 | Perfect_Why_the_ | should i give u the source code |
| 20:09:31 | Perfect_Why_the_ | of the hit test stuff |
| 20:09:41 | akira_ | would be nice |
| 20:09:45 | Perfect_Why_the_ | k |
| 20:12:48 | Patlabor221 | what does the liscense say about branching BZFlag? |
| 20:13:19 | akira_ | if you remember my viewer of the laser scanned surface ... if i pick the position i walk along the ray and check, if i am underneath or above the surface ... |
| 20:13:30 | akira_ | Patlabor221 isnt it gpl? |
| 20:13:37 | Patlabor221 | I think so |
| 20:13:42 | akira_ | what would you like to do better / other? |
| 20:13:43 | Patlabor221 | does that mean I can branch it? |
| 20:13:50 | akira_ | you can branch it |
| 20:13:53 | Patlabor221 | all kinds of stuff :) |
| 20:13:57 | akira_ | :))) |
| 20:14:21 | Patlabor221 | I am pondering how long it would take to redo what BZ does now with my libs |
| 20:14:39 | akira_ | ? |
| 20:15:12 | Patlabor221 | I am debating branching or rewirting. |
| 20:15:37 | Perfect_Why_the_ | what is branching? |
| 20:15:39 | akira_ | but be aware: i know this mplayer guy whos multithread version of mplayer wasnt accepted by maintainer and so he branched and is now very alone ... at least as i saw him last |
| 20:16:05 | akira_ | Perfect_Why_the_ you took all the code , rename it and go on with your own visions |
| 20:16:28 | Patlabor221 | branching is taking a project and spliting it off from the main line of development |
| 20:16:49 | Patlabor221 | that is why I am thinking of just a rewrite |
| 20:16:59 | Patlabor221 | litghting is my only issue |
| 20:17:13 | akira_ | what lighting? |
| 20:17:20 | Patlabor221 | as in how to do it |
| 20:17:41 | Patlabor221 | I've got an app that will export the 1.7 models from hardcode to OBJ files |
| 20:17:47 | Patlabor221 | I know the map structure |
| 20:17:52 | Patlabor221 | I've got a net lib |
| 20:17:54 | akira_ | oh, nice |
| 20:18:06 | Patlabor221 | I can get the textures from 1.8 |
| 20:18:23 | Patlabor221 | I can change the map structure to allow for more types of geo |
| 20:18:39 | Patlabor221 | I think it should be simple to redo what it does now |
| 20:18:53 | Patlabor221 | just in a nice plugin based codebase |
| 20:18:59 | Patlabor221 | and using SDL |
| 20:19:06 | Perfect_Why_the_ | but it would take a lot of time |
| 20:19:13 | Perfect_Why_the_ | its huge |
| 20:19:14 | Patlabor221 | that is my query |
| 20:19:16 | Patlabor221 | is it? |
| 20:19:21 | Perfect_Why_the_ | yes |
| 20:19:22 | Patlabor221 | what is so huge about it? |
| 20:19:28 | Patlabor221 | the colisions are simple |
| 20:19:33 | Perfect_Why_the_ | the details |
| 20:19:37 | Patlabor221 | like? |
| 20:19:40 | Patlabor221 | the weps? |
| 20:19:46 | Patlabor221 | those would all be plugins |
| 20:19:55 | Patlabor221 | and there behavor is well defined. |
| 20:20:09 | Patlabor221 | now I would not do the Time of Day stuff |
| 20:20:27 | Perfect_Why_the_ | hm, k |
| 20:20:38 | Patlabor221 | but is there anything I am missing? |
| 20:23:07 | Perfect_Why_the_ | http://home.in.tum.de/~edelstei/picking.htm |
| 20:23:24 | Perfect_Why_the_ | ther u find my hit code akira_ |
| 20:24:08 | Perfect_Why_the_ | the second method makes the hit test in device space |
| 20:24:28 | akira_ | i will check it tomorrow .. or better on tuesday .. tomorrow i will have my killerday |
| 20:24:45 | akira_ | 5 lectures one after the other |
| 20:25:20 | Perfect_Why_the_ | oh :) |
| 20:25:22 | Perfect_Why_the_ | nice |
| 20:25:34 | Patlabor221 | that is rather hellish |
| 20:25:59 | Patlabor221 | wonder if it's ok to use the MD3 format in stuff other then quake2 |
| 20:26:03 | Patlabor221 | q3 I mean |
| 20:26:28 | akira_ | md3 was for the models right? |
| 20:26:35 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 20:26:41 | akira_ | scenes where .bsp i think |
| 20:26:46 | Patlabor221 | is a fiarly compact format |
| 20:26:54 | Patlabor221 | that they were |
| 20:27:06 | Patlabor221 | MD3 is nice cus it has the positional tags |
| 20:27:17 | Patlabor221 | where you can atach other meshes |
| 20:27:39 | Patlabor221 | and they can be animated |
| 20:28:00 | Perfect_Why_the_ | sort of hierarchy |
| 20:28:09 | Patlabor221 | sort of |
| 20:28:18 | Perfect_Why_the_ | kind of |
| 20:28:19 | akira_ | oh man .. so much to learn at all and so ... wenig time :) |
| 20:28:23 | akira_ | whats wenig ... mhh |
| 20:28:23 | Patlabor221 | the herarchy isn't speced in the model |
| 20:28:31 | Perfect_Why_the_ | litte |
| 20:28:36 | akira_ | ah exactly |
| 20:28:50 | Patlabor221 | it just gives you places to atach multiple models together |
| 20:28:54 | Perfect_Why_the_ | hey akira was lernst du |
| 20:29:03 | Patlabor221 | you could do a heiarchy if you wanted to |
| 20:29:15 | Perfect_Why_the_ | like xref in 3d studio |
| 20:29:21 | Perfect_Why_the_ | i suppose |
| 20:29:26 | Patlabor221 | I don't know what that is |
| 20:29:42 | Patlabor221 | it's realy just a CS put in the model |
| 20:29:47 | Patlabor221 | that animates with it |
| 20:29:48 | akira_ | Perfect_Why_the_ computer visualistic |
| 20:30:00 | akira_ | all about graphics and stuff like that |
| 20:30:11 | Perfect_Why_the_ | oh k, and the model are all skines meshes |
| 20:30:25 | akira_ | animation, modelling, graphic programming, computer vision etc |
| 20:30:33 | Patlabor221 | a model is a colection of meshes |
| 20:30:46 | Patlabor221 | each mesh can refence ether a texture or a "skin" document |
| 20:31:10 | Perfect_Why_the_ | what does the skin doc contain |
| 20:31:12 | Perfect_Why_the_ | ? |
| 20:31:31 | Patlabor221 | the skin document can define multiple textures and how to combine them, and/or what shader effects to use. |
| 20:33:29 | Patlabor221 | the meshes also have 2 sets of texture coords. |
| 20:33:32 | Cell_prog_insect | i have only little knowledge about skinned models/meshes |
| 20:33:36 | Patlabor221 | one for the regualr texture |
| 20:33:46 | Patlabor221 | and one for the environment map |
| 20:34:16 | Patlabor221 | they are just textured models |
| 20:34:21 | Patlabor221 | nothing specal about them |
| 20:34:34 | Patlabor221 | it's the animation of them that gets intersting. |
| 20:34:42 | Patlabor221 | but that has nothing to do with the skin. |
| 20:35:24 | Patlabor221 | MD3s are all vertex animation |
| 20:35:35 | Patlabor221 | skelital is more intersting |
| 20:35:39 | Patlabor221 | but it too has problems. |
| 20:35:42 | Cell_prog_insect | so they have keys for each vertex motion? |
| 20:35:50 | Patlabor221 | in vertex animations yes |
| 20:36:03 | Patlabor221 | there is a set of verts for each keyframe |
| 20:36:16 | Cell_prog_insect | but its fast calculating the offset |
| 20:36:28 | Cell_prog_insect | for the next frame |
| 20:36:40 | Patlabor221 | you iterpoate between the 2 keyframes |
| 20:36:48 | Cell_prog_insect | yes |
| 20:36:55 | Patlabor221 | it's decently fast |
| 20:37:02 | Patlabor221 | just can take lots of RAM |
| 20:37:14 | Patlabor221 | its faster on the CPU then skelital |
| 20:37:26 | Cell_prog_insect | sure, but they use lot of instances of the same ram model |
| 20:37:33 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 20:38:17 | Patlabor221 | but I mean you base size is (num verts ) * (Num frames) * (sizeof(vert)) |
| 20:38:29 | Cell_prog_insect | but the animations, i mean the keys are generated using skeletal animation, with a 3d editor |
| 20:38:36 | Patlabor221 | they can be |
| 20:38:43 | Patlabor221 | if the artist choses to do so |
| 20:38:51 | Patlabor221 | most start with that |
| 20:39:13 | Patlabor221 | and then will tweak the verts to make the animation look less rigid |
| 20:39:17 | Cell_prog_insect | i made a little character animation with character studio |
| 20:39:50 | Cell_prog_insect | and then it generated the keys at a given sample rate |
| 20:39:56 | Patlabor221 | bone based anims have a tendency to not have much "weight" with out ether tweaks or with out LOTS of bones |
| 20:40:00 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 20:40:32 | Patlabor221 | Quake 3 helps keep the mem down by spliting the model into 4 parts |
| 20:40:41 | Patlabor221 | the head ( no anims ) |
| 20:40:58 | Patlabor221 | the torso, and the legs ( each with there own sets of anims ) |
| 20:40:58 | Cell_prog_insect | the neck |
| 20:41:02 | Patlabor221 | and the wepon. |
| 20:41:04 | akira_ | wishes somehow to get a training with j.c :) |
| 20:41:06 | Cell_prog_insect | is animated? |
| 20:41:22 | Cell_prog_insect | j.c? |
| 20:41:23 | Patlabor221 | the wepon can be |
| 20:41:46 | Cell_prog_insect | and the neck belongs to the torso, i quess |
| 20:41:55 | Patlabor221 | yup that's where they put it |
| 20:42:01 | akira_ | jc == john the man carmack |
| 20:42:03 | Patlabor221 | and on the end of the neck is the head tag |
| 20:42:09 | Cell_prog_insect | cause cube engine uses md2 models, and they have animated necks |
| 20:42:20 | Patlabor221 | MD2s are difrent |
| 20:42:23 | Patlabor221 | they are 1 mesh |
| 20:42:32 | Patlabor221 | but they have acuracy issues |
| 20:42:42 | Patlabor221 | each vert is 3 chars |
| 20:42:58 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, interesting |
| 20:42:58 | Patlabor221 | they take a float and compress it down to +-128 |
| 20:43:05 | Patlabor221 | looks like crap close up |
| 20:43:15 | Patlabor221 | the models shimmer like Jello |
| 20:43:30 | Cell_prog_insect | they use x xoe y xor z |
| 20:43:31 | Patlabor221 | what do you want to train with JC? to just know that he LOVES BSPs to death |
| 20:43:51 | Cell_prog_insect | i want his money |
| 20:44:00 | Patlabor221 | there was some sort of compresion with Z if I recall |
| 20:44:13 | Patlabor221 | it only had 128 of precision |
| 20:44:25 | akira_ | Patlabor221 to create a very coooool 3d engine :) |
| 20:44:37 | Patlabor221 | unreal took 3 floats and compressed them into 30 bytes, that was interesting. |
| 20:44:43 | Patlabor221 | didn't lose much there. |
| 20:44:50 | Patlabor221 | MD3 just used floats |
| 20:44:53 | Patlabor221 | no compression |
| 20:45:21 | Patlabor221 | but becasue of the split in the model you allways get a nasty seam in the belly of the characters |
| 20:45:35 | Cell_prog_insect | j.c. seems to read lot of literatur, and adapt the stuff he finds usefull |
| 20:45:47 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect thats the way :) |
| 20:46:05 | Cell_prog_insect | cause all the ethings he comes up with are known for many years |
| 20:46:30 | Patlabor221 | no need to reinvent the wheele |
| 20:46:30 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect but i put them together very clever and quite fast |
| 20:46:40 | Cell_prog_insect | but getting it together and efficient, thats the genius |
| 20:46:41 | akira_ | Patlabor221 exactly |
| 20:46:50 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect exactly |
| 20:47:23 | Cell_prog_insect | but this stuff is so hard to understand |
| 20:47:51 | akira_ | i got an ebookfrom the teacher of john .. and the forward is from john .. its a book about optimizing code |
| 20:47:55 | Cell_prog_insect | i mean it took me so lonk to understand why how the bsp front to back sorting works |
| 20:48:21 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect i understand bsps exactly one day before the test :) |
| 20:48:30 | Cell_prog_insect | i have Computer Graphics Principles and Practise |
| 20:49:00 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect a good book but "realtimerendering" is better in realtime render stuff :) |
| 20:49:07 | Patlabor221 | I don;t know if BSPs are the thing to lock onto now |
| 20:49:18 | Cell_prog_insect | i dont like them |
| 20:49:38 | Patlabor221 | they were fine for the days of software renderer |
| 20:49:49 | Patlabor221 | now they just end up making more geo then they cull |
| 20:50:07 | akira_ | they are still fine for static scenes .. even today :) |
| 20:50:35 | Patlabor221 | well I think portal type vis can be more usefull |
| 20:50:43 | Patlabor221 | maybe in conjunction with BSPs |
| 20:50:54 | Cell_prog_insect | on outdoor scenes? |
| 20:50:55 | akira_ | so its in quake3 |
| 20:50:59 | akira_ | portal + bsps |
| 20:51:44 | Patlabor221 | well it's not real portals |
| 20:51:49 | Patlabor221 | it's a PVS type portal |
| 20:51:49 | akira_ | welcome to the dark side ... Obiwankenobi |
| 20:51:50 | Cell_prog_insect | what is an acceptable triangle count per frame to draw |
| 20:52:04 | Obiwankenobi | hi |
| 20:52:08 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect depends on the size of your screen .) |
| 20:52:08 | Patlabor221 | depends on your card |
| 20:52:22 | Patlabor221 | and your fill rate |
| 20:52:25 | akira_ | and on colordepth |
| 20:52:35 | Cell_prog_insect | sure , i mean if u want to reach the avarage pc user |
| 20:52:37 | Patlabor221 | and your geo pipeline |
| 20:52:52 | akira_ | and the bus |
| 20:53:01 | Cell_prog_insect | and me |
| 20:53:03 | Obiwankenobi | and the weather |
| 20:53:08 | Cell_prog_insect | as a programmer |
| 20:53:14 | akira_ | and the sun and the moon |
| 20:53:20 | Patlabor221 | real it comes down to wether or not you have hardware geo support |
| 20:53:24 | Cell_prog_insect | and god |
| 20:53:26 | akira_ | and the stars .. watch the stars .. they are so beautiful |
| 20:53:38 | Patlabor221 | no god was nothing to do with this |
| 20:53:40 | akira_ | and the flowers |
| 20:53:46 | Cell_prog_insect | yes i count on harware geo support |
| 20:53:49 | akira_ | thers no god thand me |
| 20:53:50 | Patlabor221 | it's all scince |
| 20:54:03 | akira_ | wrong grammer |
| 20:54:08 | akira_ | there is no god but me |
| 20:54:10 | akira_ | right? |
| 20:54:16 | Patlabor221 | then it depends on whether you are gonna send a lot of little things throuh or a some big things |
| 20:54:17 | Cell_prog_insect | clear |
| 20:54:37 | Patlabor221 | you will ether hit the fill rate, or the geo transform rate |
| 20:54:47 | Cell_prog_insect | k if it runs well on my pc then it s k |
| 20:54:58 | Patlabor221 | if you asume that the "average" user has a GF2MX then just check NVidias site |
| 20:55:04 | Patlabor221 | and divide thenumbers by 2 |
| 20:55:08 | akira_ | i read a cool trick about not clearing the depthbuffer each frame |
| 20:55:09 | Cell_prog_insect | k |
| 20:55:25 | akira_ | but dont remember it at the moment |
| 20:55:47 | Cell_prog_insect | glDepthFunc(GL_ALWAYS) draw background |
| 20:55:54 | Cell_prog_insect | no need to clear |
| 20:56:09 | Patlabor221 | does that realy save you anything tho |
| 20:56:09 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, wrong |
| 20:56:16 | Patlabor221 | the card will do that automaticly |
| 20:56:46 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, and its damn fast |
| 20:57:03 | Cell_prog_insect | it saves nothing, i guess |
| 20:57:16 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect that was not the trick coz now you can forget clean drawings |
| 20:57:27 | akira_ | the trick was to inert the depthrange or something like that |
| 20:57:28 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, therefore i said:WRONG |
| 20:57:36 | Patlabor221 | akira was it some type of scene difrencing thing? |
| 20:57:54 | Patlabor221 | I've seen ones where they asume that not much changes from one frame to another. |
| 20:57:59 | akira_ | it saves you from cleaning up width * heigth * depth bits ... |
| 20:58:04 | akira_ | Patlabor221 nope |
| 20:58:04 | Patlabor221 | and do stuff based on selta states |
| 20:58:15 | Patlabor221 | well still the cards gonna do it not the CPU |
| 20:58:23 | Patlabor221 | I would think that it would be async. |
| 20:58:35 | akira_ | i will take a look at the book in a couple of ours if my buddy here burned new movies :) |
| 20:58:43 | Cell_prog_insect | maybe u just draw front to back |
| 20:58:48 | Cell_prog_insect | and disable z buffer |
| 20:59:02 | Cell_prog_insect | äh back to front |
| 20:59:03 | Patlabor221 | then you have to split intersectors |
| 20:59:10 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, bsp |
| 20:59:16 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect nope .. i will mail you tomorrow |
| 20:59:17 | Patlabor221 | and then what's the point of the hardware then |
| 20:59:36 | Patlabor221 | we want less work for the CPU, more on the GPU |
| 20:59:45 | Cell_prog_insect | of coz |
| 20:59:50 | Patlabor221 | and less across the buss |
| 21:00:22 | doughecka | bah |
| 21:00:28 | doughecka | hates spare tires |
| 21:00:29 | Cell_prog_insect | send the data to the card and the whole prog and let the card do |
| 21:00:33 | akira_ | but if you can avoid any cleanups its cool, nevertheless where |
| 21:00:49 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect :) |
| 21:00:54 | Patlabor221 | must figure out how to "explode" a MD3 BZ style |
| 21:00:59 | Cell_prog_insect | depens on the cost or coplexity tradeoff |
| 21:02:59 | Cell_prog_insect | i love my code now,as it finally works |
| 21:04:42 | Cell_prog_insect | just wait what my mentor will say to my tooth editor |
| 21:05:07 | akira_ | har .. streber |
| 21:05:13 | akira_ | was studierst du nochmal? |
| 21:05:19 | Cell_prog_insect | informatik |
| 21:05:46 | Cell_prog_insect | dasselbe wie du oder?, glaub ich |
| 21:07:07 | Cell_prog_insect | its damn late now here, i need deep sleep |
| 21:07:11 | akira_ | ne, hab ich doch vorhin schon gesagt, bei mir ist mehr so 3dgrafik etc im vordergrund |
| 21:07:15 | akira_ | Cell_prog_insect me too |
| 21:07:26 | Cell_prog_insect | ok bye |
| 21:34:40 | doughecka | ¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ |
| 21:34:40 | doughecka | bzflag rulez |
| 21:34:40 | doughecka | º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤º |
| 21:34:48 | doughecka | is away: gone |
| 21:35:15 | Patlabor221 | ohh you are soo i337 |
| 22:37:24 | Widget | ¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ ¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ |
| 23:58:33 | blackhound | hullo |
| 23:58:40 | bzgirl | hi |