| 00:03:40 | blackhound | good evening |
| 00:10:55 | doughecka | humph |
| 00:11:00 | doughecka | went up to 207 allready |
| 00:12:28 | sussudio | sux2bu |
| 00:12:37 | doughecka | ? |
| 00:12:52 | sussudio | drives the price up to 230 |
| 00:13:02 | doughecka | hah |
| 00:13:06 | doughecka | I aint gonna get it |
| 00:13:10 | doughecka | cant pay that much |
| 00:15:57 | BZFlag | Crooze: karma is not automatic. |
| 00:16:12 | doughecka | BZFlag: oh? |
| 00:16:34 | BZFlag | there might be play ranking as well, which would be automatic, but that is not related to karma. |
| 00:16:56 | doughecka | oh, cool |
| 00:17:02 | BZFlag | karma is like trust. |
| 00:17:02 | doughecka | so how does it work? |
| 00:17:27 | BZFlag | each member has a potential trust relationship with each other member. |
| 00:17:40 | BZFlag | that trust is either positive or negative. |
| 00:17:50 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:17:50 | doughecka | k |
| 00:18:00 | BZFlag | there would likely be more that 3 levels (up, neutral, down). |
| 00:18:18 | BZFlag | 5 perhaps? or 9? who knows. |
| 00:18:22 | doughecka | so if every one here trusted me.. (like they do) I would have lots of karma? |
| 00:18:26 | doughecka | ;) |
| 00:18:33 | BZFlag | that's the idea. |
| 00:18:45 | sussudio | mods doughecka -1 get a damn haircut |
| 00:18:50 | doughecka | would people with more karma have te ability to kick people? |
| 00:19:02 | doughecka | mods sussudio -a redundent |
| 00:19:22 | BZFlag | and as a server admin I could say I trust karma level 30 and higher to do kicks and 50 and up can completely admin the server etc. |
| 00:19:26 | sussudio | sends doughecka back to school to get zpellin lezzonz |
| 00:19:37 | doughecka | BZFlag: cool! |
| 00:19:50 | BZFlag | or I could say you need a karma of +5 to get on my server in the first place. |
| 00:19:52 | doughecka | punches sussudio into the middle of next week |
| 00:20:01 | doughecka | BZFlag: that would be neat too |
| 00:20:07 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:20:27 | sussudio | gives out a second round of pineapple slices with whipped cream, except for kentucky fried brains |
| 00:20:41 | doughecka | was born in florida |
| 00:20:47 | doughecka | hand me a pineapple |
| 00:20:58 | sussudio | no |
| 00:21:04 | sussudio | not for you |
| 00:21:12 | doughecka | takes one anyway |
| 00:21:19 | BZFlag | your karma is the total of all the karma rankings others have toward you as well as things like how often you play, how many people you have ranked, how even that distribution of rankings is etc. |
| 00:21:49 | doughecka | BZFlag: hmm how easy will it be to set ratings? |
| 00:22:01 | doughecka | in the game? |
| 00:22:08 | BZFlag | you can foo++ or foo-- in the game |
| 00:22:16 | doughecka | bzflag++ |
| 00:22:17 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:22:19 | doughecka | hehe |
| 00:22:24 | | doughecka: wish i knew |
| 00:22:24 | doughecka | ibot karma for bzflag? |
| 00:22:28 | doughecka | tsk |
| 00:22:29 | blair | sup sup. |
| 00:22:34 | BZFlag | your current ranking to others would likely show in the scoreboard. |
| 00:22:36 | doughecka | that will be nice |
| 00:22:38 | sussudio | doug is brownnosing |
| 00:22:44 | doughecka | ignore sussudio |
| 00:22:50 | doughecka | yes |
| 00:22:53 | BZFlag | as well as whether they have ranked you (but not the ranking) |
| 00:23:03 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:23:50 | BZFlag | you get -- karma if you don't rank somone that has ranked you. you don't need to set a positive value, could be negative, but you should rank others that you play with. |
| 00:24:08 | doughecka | ok |
| 00:24:10 | BZFlag | there would likely be a web site to see all this as well. |
| 00:24:15 | doughecka | or a nutral rating? |
| 00:24:30 | sussudio | doug gets a neuter rating |
| 00:24:36 | BZFlag | no neutral == nor ranked. |
| 00:24:39 | doughecka | shuddup |
| 00:24:44 | doughecka | BZFlag: ok |
| 00:25:27 | BZFlag | that's why there would be levels. those you don't know well, but seem to be ok, should get a +1 from you. those that you know and trust well would have a +max |
| 00:25:47 | doughecka | ok |
| 00:26:03 | doughecka | so everybody in this room WILL put a + max on me or else |
| 00:26:09 | doughecka | (exept sussudio) |
| 00:26:13 | BZFlag | doughecka-- |
| 00:26:17 | BZFlag | grins |
| 00:26:23 | | doughecka has karma of -1 |
| 00:26:23 | BZFlag | ibot: karma doughecka |
| 00:26:24 | doughecka | wonders what else |
| 00:26:30 | doughecka | doughecka++ |
| 00:26:36 | doughecka | bleh |
| 00:26:44 | doughecka | please dont karma yourself |
| 00:26:51 | sussudio | karma ho |
| 00:26:56 | doughecka | BZFlag-- |
| 00:26:59 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:27:05 | BZFlag | that's it. keep it up. |
| 00:27:11 | | sussudio has karma of 1 |
| 00:27:11 | BZFlag | ibot: karma sussudio |
| 00:27:11 | doughecka | haha |
| 00:27:16 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:27:21 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:27:23 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:27:26 | | sussudio has karma of -2 |
| 00:27:26 | BZFlag | ibot: karma sussudio |
| 00:27:28 | | doughecka: i don't know |
| 00:27:28 | doughecka | ibot karma sussudio? |
| 00:27:31 | doughecka | bleh |
| 00:27:37 | sussudio | retarded bot |
| 00:27:38 | doughecka | dumb thing, we need a alice bot in here |
| 00:27:47 | BZFlag | patches welcome. ;-) |
| 00:27:55 | doughecka | shrugs |
| 00:27:58 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:27:58 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:27:59 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:27:59 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:27:59 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:27:59 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:28:01 | sussudio | doughecka-- |
| 00:28:02 | sussudio | there. |
| 00:28:05 | doughecka | hahahaa |
| 00:28:08 | | doughecka has karma of -8 |
| 00:28:08 | BZFlag | ibot: karma doughecka |
| 00:28:13 | doughecka | get banned mr spammer |
| 00:28:24 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:25 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:25 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:25 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:25 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:25 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:27 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:29 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:31 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:33 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:35 | doughecka | sussudio-- |
| 00:28:37 | | means nothing anyway. but top this... has neutral karma |
| 00:28:37 | BZFlag | ibot karma means nothing anyway. but top this... |
| 00:28:37 | doughecka | snickers |
| 00:28:41 | | bzflag has karma of 3036873698723 |
| 00:28:41 | BZFlag | ibot karma bzflag |
| 00:28:43 | | sussudio has karma of -13 |
| 00:28:43 | doughecka | ibot karma sussudio |
| 00:28:59 | doughecka | LOL |
| 00:29:00 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:29:04 | doughecka | do that to me!! |
| 00:29:05 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:29:11 | | sussudio has karma of -13 |
| 00:29:11 | sussudio | ibot karma sussudio |
| 00:29:13 | doughecka | snickers |
| 00:29:18 | BZFlag | it helps to be the bot admin. ;-) |
| 00:29:23 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:29:27 | | i am an infobot http://infobot.org/ run by BZFlag on Tangent's hardware or a firewall web cam http://www.orangemicro.com/ibot.html |
| 00:29:27 | doughecka | ibot ibot? |
| 00:29:36 | doughecka | what is tangents hardware? |
| 00:29:45 | BZFlag | in the beginning with bz there would be some artificial rankings. |
| 00:29:56 | BZFlag | doughecka: cobalt raq2 I think. |
| 00:30:00 | doughecka | like I would have karma +23435456467563 |
| 00:30:05 | doughecka | BZFlag: ah |
| 00:30:37 | BZFlag | as the community grows, hopefully those can be eliminated. |
| 00:30:43 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:30:51 | doughecka | would like to keep his artifical karma |
| 00:30:53 | doughecka | :) |
| 00:31:00 | doughecka | well |
| 00:31:14 | doughecka | would new players have a +3 karma, to get started? |
| 00:31:16 | BZFlag | aims to loose his artificial karma as soon as possible. |
| 00:31:23 | doughecka | heh |
| 00:31:27 | BZFlag | new players are 0 to start. |
| 00:31:33 | doughecka | cuz your the admin... |
| 00:31:38 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:31:38 | doughecka | k |
| 00:31:50 | BZFlag | registered players are +(some small number) to start. |
| 00:31:56 | doughecka | ok |
| 00:32:52 | BZFlag | I'm leaning towards a gpg keyring to base it off. |
| 00:33:01 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:33:15 | BZFlag | though the bz "karma" ranks are != the gpg trust ranks |
| 00:33:17 | doughecka | dumbs his karma raising bot |
| 00:33:26 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:33:43 | BZFlag | unregistered players can not karma others. |
| 00:33:55 | doughecka | would it be possible to make a bot that would register hundreds of names and raise peoples karma? |
| 00:34:28 | jzaun | What kinda database will this info be stored in? |
| 00:34:35 | BZFlag | yes. but since all the new players have 0 ranks to start with, it would not be possible to get into the "web of trust" |
| 00:34:41 | doughecka | jzaun: stats.bzflag.org :P |
| 00:34:49 | doughecka | BZFlag: oh yea |
| 00:34:54 | doughecka | nice setup |
| 00:35:02 | BZFlag | jzaun: storing is easy. calculating is the challenge. |
| 00:35:11 | doughecka | yay |
| 00:35:15 | doughecka | I got cd number 1!! |
| 00:35:19 | jzaun | doughecka: not sure thats proactical, but I would like to use the bzflag stat database in conjuntion with stats.bzflag.org |
| 00:35:21 | doughecka | jzaun: pat me on the back |
| 00:35:28 | doughecka | jzaun: hmm |
| 00:35:33 | jzaun | decks doughecka |
| 00:35:38 | doughecka | ow |
| 00:36:02 | BZFlag | see http://advogato.org/ for details on the ranking system. |
| 00:36:42 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:36:44 | BZFlag | jzaun: yes, stats, karma, leagues etc would all be merged. |
| 00:36:53 | doughecka | BZFlag: cool |
| 00:36:56 | doughecka | I cant wait |
| 00:37:17 | jzaun | BZFlag: Will there be 1 central database for all running bzflag servers? |
| 00:37:24 | doughecka | would people who make maps and stuff that people like, could they raise the map makers karma? |
| 00:37:25 | BZFlag | jzaun: yes. |
| 00:37:43 | BZFlag | jzaun: though servers do not need to be public if they do not want to be. |
| 00:37:53 | jzaun | BZFlag: right, as it should be |
| 00:37:55 | BZFlag | now there are listed and unlisted servers. |
| 00:38:05 | doughecka | hmm? |
| 00:38:16 | BZFlag | with karma there will be listed, hidden, and unlisted. |
| 00:38:21 | jzaun | right, just like stats.bzflag.org is only public servers |
| 00:38:23 | doughecka | eh? |
| 00:38:33 | doughecka | hidden? |
| 00:38:48 | BZFlag | as test servers would be able to be in the list, but not show up for most. |
| 00:38:49 | jzaun | listed = public, hidden = high karma, unlisted = private? |
| 00:39:03 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:39:35 | doughecka | hidden would only be open for high karma i.e. server admins/really good player/etc |
| 00:39:48 | doughecka | so no teamkilling |
| 00:39:51 | doughecka | people |
| 00:39:52 | doughecka | neat |
| 00:39:56 | BZFlag | course admins can always get on the servers they own. so if your karma is +15 and you require +30 to join your server, you can still join your own. |
| 00:40:21 | doughecka | now what will keep someone from reregistering as a diferent username to get rid of there bad karma? |
| 00:40:28 | jzaun | BZFlag: would be nice to work in a central ban facility too |
| 00:40:35 | doughecka | jzaun: yes yes! |
| 00:40:37 | BZFlag | doughecka: nothing. but they start at 0 again. |
| 00:40:37 | doughecka | :0 |
| 00:40:38 | jzaun | BZFlag: I'm working on that now for stats.bzflag.org |
| 00:41:15 | doughecka | BZFlag: but is this person is a bad teamkiller with -200 and cant get on ANY server... all they have to do is reconnect |
| 00:41:17 | doughecka | er |
| 00:41:18 | BZFlag | registration required email reply. |
| 00:41:21 | doughecka | reregister |
| 00:41:26 | doughecka | BZFlag: ah |
| 00:41:38 | doughecka | that narrows it down |
| 00:41:50 | BZFlag | so you could reregister as many times as you have email accounts. |
| 00:41:56 | doughecka | heh |
| 00:41:59 | doughecka | emails are free |
| 00:42:05 | BZFlag | which for a linux admin is infinite. |
| 00:42:05 | doughecka | but good point |
| 00:42:12 | doughecka | yes |
| 00:42:26 | jzaun | goes to bed, night all |
| 00:42:33 | doughecka | I am a catch-all on my mail server so I could get x amount of emails |
| 00:42:53 | BZFlag | we could -- karma *@yahoo.com *@aol.com etc if desired. |
| 00:42:54 | doughecka | and then just reply back as that user name.. very neat/bad/cool |
| 00:43:02 | doughecka | yes. |
| 00:43:16 | doughecka | but that would be unfair for good players |
| 00:43:28 | doughecka | maybe a ip? |
| 00:43:36 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:43:39 | doughecka | maybe not.. |
| 00:43:49 | BZFlag | ip might work too, but each thing is just a karma influence. |
| 00:43:57 | doughecka | yea |
| 00:44:01 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:44:27 | doughecka | imagine the CPU require ments of doing all this stuff in real time AND keeping track of 200+ players at one time |
| 00:44:40 | doughecka | 200+ player WILL be here.. dont worry ;) |
| 00:44:40 | BZFlag | so if your on a known hackers ip lan and your email is a yahoo.com you start off hurting. but then if some real high ranked user ++s you, you can overcome. |
| 00:44:54 | BZFlag | not done it real time. |
| 00:44:56 | doughecka | yea |
| 00:44:58 | doughecka | on? |
| 00:44:59 | doughecka | no? |
| 00:45:08 | BZFlag | daily batch job redoes the rankings. |
| 00:45:13 | doughecka | whos gonna host all this stuff? |
| 00:45:17 | BZFlag | me. |
| 00:45:17 | doughecka | ah, ok |
| 00:45:20 | doughecka | you... |
| 00:45:22 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:45:22 | BZFlag | at least for now. |
| 00:45:25 | doughecka | yea |
| 00:45:33 | doughecka | is that where the list server is? |
| 00:45:38 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 00:45:54 | doughecka | hmm |
| 00:45:59 | doughecka | cool |
| 00:46:07 | | doughecka has karma of -8 |
| 00:46:07 | doughecka | ibot karma doughecka |
| 00:46:12 | doughecka | bleh |
| 00:46:19 | doughecka | make my karma 255462425656246456456 |
| 00:46:21 | doughecka | ;) |
| 00:46:59 | BZFlag | ibot's karma system is sill. just change your nick, ++ yourself and then change back. |
| 00:47:05 | BZFlag | er silly. |
| 00:47:07 | doughecka | ah |
| 00:47:40 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:40 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:40 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:41 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:41 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:41 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:42 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:44 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:46 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:48 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:50 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:52 | bzdoug | doughecka++ |
| 00:47:58 | | doughecka has karma of 4 |
| 00:47:58 | bzdoug | ibot karma doughecka |
| 00:48:02 | bzdoug | 4.. |
| 00:48:07 | bzdoug | heh |
| 00:48:32 | bzdoug | hrm |
| 00:48:48 | sussudio | whore |
| 00:49:07 | bzdoug | ponders if he will EVER see 1.8 karma system before hes 18 |
| 00:49:12 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 00:49:24 | bzdoug | patches welcome... |
| 00:49:33 | BZFlag | depends how fast you learn to code. ;-) |
| 00:49:36 | sussudio | well since that's another 6 years |
| 00:49:37 | bzdoug | hah |
| 00:49:53 | bzdoug | sussudio: you mean another 6 years for you? |
| 00:50:02 | bzdoug | its only x amout for me |
| 00:50:16 | BZFlag | since crs got a job and I got promoted, things have been slow. |
| 00:50:21 | bzdoug | hehe |
| 00:50:47 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 00:50:56 | bzdoug | what is so good about the irix gl suppoer? |
| 00:51:02 | bzdoug | support evem |
| 00:53:33 | BZFlag | well, since gl started on irix, one would hope it's robust. |
| 00:53:42 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 00:53:53 | bzdoug | but does it have a grafics card or something? |
| 00:54:45 | BZFlag | it? that's like asking does win98 have a graphics card. |
| 00:54:53 | bzdoug | um |
| 00:55:16 | bzdoug | does it have a super duper gl grafics card better than anything sold for the sane person |
| 00:55:47 | sussudio | looks for the cluebat |
| 00:55:48 | BZFlag | does what? the OS? the OS is software. yes it supports some insane graphics cards. |
| 00:56:00 | bzdoug | shrugs |
| 00:56:02 | BZFlag | but it does not come with any |
| 00:56:09 | sussudio | irix. operating system. |
| 00:56:09 | bzdoug | its late |
| 00:56:11 | sussudio | pc. hardware. |
| 00:56:17 | bzdoug | what does irix run on? |
| 00:56:17 | sussudio | vax. hardware. |
| 00:56:21 | sussudio | etc. |
| 00:56:26 | bzdoug | I should it was some odd stiff |
| 00:56:27 | sussudio | sgi machines? |
| 00:56:30 | bzdoug | stuff evem |
| 00:56:31 | BZFlag | SGI mips boxes mostly |
| 00:56:31 | bzdoug | oh |
| 00:56:32 | bzdoug | yes |
| 00:56:37 | bzdoug | hrm |
| 00:57:30 | bzdoug | shrugs |
| 00:57:39 | BZFlag | I've read specs on a 4096x3072 48 bit color graphics card running on irix |
| 00:57:45 | bzdoug | I got me a "learn python in 24 hours book" |
| 00:57:52 | bzdoug | BZFlag: WOW |
| 00:57:59 | bzdoug | 47 bit? |
| 00:58:01 | bzdoug | er |
| 00:58:05 | bzdoug | 48 even |
| 00:58:23 | BZFlag | yeah. well. 64 bit if you count transparency |
| 00:58:36 | bzdoug | sheesh |
| 00:58:37 | | BZFlag: sorry... |
| 00:58:37 | BZFlag | ibot 2 ^^ 48 |
| 00:58:40 | bzdoug | why so how? |
| 00:58:42 | | 281474976710656 |
| 00:58:42 | BZFlag | ibot 2 ** 48 |
| 00:58:52 | bzdoug | wow |
| 00:58:59 | bzdoug | lots of colors |
| 00:59:17 | | bzdoug: i'm not following you... |
| 00:59:17 | bzdoug | ibot 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L * 9 |
| 00:59:20 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 00:59:27 | bzdoug | dont support long numbers eh? |
| 00:59:44 | BZFlag | The actual display could not handle that, but the frame buffer did, so you had hardware pan and zoom on the images. |
| 00:59:56 | bzdoug | cool |
| 01:00:16 | BZFlag | at the time I think the card was around 30 grand. |
| 01:00:18 | bzdoug | you would need a 4096x3072 monitor |
| 01:00:22 | bzdoug | weeee |
| 01:00:29 | BZFlag | plus another 6 grand for the monitor. |
| 01:00:33 | bzdoug | I hope it comes with opengl support? |
| 01:00:38 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 01:00:42 | BZFlag | no hardware GL. |
| 01:00:47 | bzdoug | WHAT? |
| 01:00:53 | BZFlag | just 2d acceleration. |
| 01:01:07 | bzdoug | how fast do you need flat boxes to move around??? |
| 01:01:10 | BZFlag | for image manipulation and video processing. |
| 01:01:15 | bzdoug | 20000 fps? |
| 01:01:20 | bzdoug | yea, but sheesh |
| 01:01:23 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:01:32 | bzdoug | yea, 2d = video too... |
| 01:01:39 | bzdoug | but a geforce does that fine too |
| 01:01:41 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 01:02:50 | sussudio | yeah..... dont forget to compare a honda civic to a ferrari too |
| 01:03:36 | bzdoug | yea, drop the civic out a plane and it goes faster than a farrari |
| 01:03:53 | sussudio | nope |
| 01:04:26 | Crooze | bzflag: karma... shouldn't private servers have the option to utilise a private karma database? |
| 01:04:56 | bzdoug | oh well |
| 01:05:01 | bzdoug | off to bed! |
| 01:05:26 | bzdoug | patches welcome!!! |
| 01:05:35 | | bzdoug: huh? |
| 01:05:35 | bzdoug | ibot patches welcome |
| 01:06:12 | | OK, bzdoug. |
| 01:06:12 | bzdoug | ibot patches welcome is <reply> BZFlags last words... |
| 01:06:20 | | BZFlags last words... |
| 01:06:20 | bzdoug | ibot patches welcome |
| 01:06:23 | bzdoug | heh |
| 01:06:32 | Crooze | bzflag: maybe users can contain a rating for other users in their config file. |
| 01:07:50 | bzdoug | Crooze: why? |
| 01:07:59 | BZFlag | Crooze: the karma/list server would likely be open source. Others can run one if they like. |
| 01:08:08 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:08:12 | BZFlag | would need separate registration though. |
| 01:08:23 | Crooze | bzflag: when a client joins a rating is then uploaded. |
| 01:08:41 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:08:50 | BZFlag | Crooze: huh? from the main server database? |
| 01:09:10 | bzdoug | SpacemanSpiff!!!!!! short time no see!!! |
| 01:09:12 | BZFlag | then what's private about that? the ratings would all be the same. |
| 01:09:16 | | i don't know, bzdoug |
| 01:09:16 | bzdoug | ibot SpacemanSpiff? |
| 01:09:22 | Crooze | bzflag: no... the client tells the server its karma values for others. |
| 01:09:35 | | OK, bzdoug. |
| 01:09:35 | bzdoug | ibot SpacemanSpiff is <reply> > |
| 01:09:38 | | > |
| 01:09:38 | bzdoug | ibot SpacemanSpiff |
| 01:09:42 | BZFlag | others which are registered on another server. |
| 01:09:43 | Crooze | bzflag: i guess these questions have been considered anyway. |
| 01:09:48 | SpacemanSpiff | Hey people |
| 01:09:50 | bzdoug | Crooze: hmm |
| 01:09:56 | SpacemanSpiff | Huh? |
| 01:10:09 | bzdoug | SpacemanSpiff: laggy huh? get a real irc client |
| 01:10:21 | SpacemanSpiff | Nope.. I was just not lookin' at the screen |
| 01:10:23 | SpacemanSpiff | LoL |
| 01:10:25 | BZFlag | trust rankings are only relavant inside the web. |
| 01:10:26 | SpacemanSpiff | I'll brb |
| 01:10:28 | bzdoug | oh |
| 01:10:29 | bzdoug | ok |
| 01:10:30 | bzdoug | well |
| 01:10:35 | bzdoug | I am off for bed |
| 01:10:50 | SpacemanSpiff | Oh.. ok.. c-ya man |
| 01:10:53 | SpacemanSpiff | God bless |
| 01:10:56 | SpacemanSpiff | Bye |
| 01:11:03 | BZFlag | the server will probably just order people by rank and then you can allow the top 300 people on your server or something like that. |
| 01:11:06 | bzdoug | hey, if any of you are going through louisville tomorrow, stop by my yard sale!! |
| 01:11:09 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 01:11:17 | BZFlag | ranks are not absolute, they are in reference to other ranks. |
| 01:11:21 | sussudio | i already have a yard |
| 01:11:33 | bzdoug | sussudio: oh good, then dont come |
| 01:11:35 | Crooze | bzflag: but i want a way to kick users off and/or ban from my team. |
| 01:11:48 | bzdoug | Crooze: hmm |
| 01:11:52 | | Aaaaahhhhhh.... |
| 01:11:52 | sussudio | ibot come |
| 01:12:02 | | goodbye, bzdoug. |
| 01:12:02 | bzdoug | ibot part #bzflag |
| 01:12:11 | SpacemanSpiff | I'm back |
| 01:12:16 | BZFlag | I gotta put the kids to bed. I've got a whole team/clan system in mind. you be here in an hour? |
| 01:12:26 | bzdoug | kids? |
| 01:12:28 | bzdoug | cool |
| 01:12:45 | BZFlag | http://cam.rikers.org/ http://henry.rikers.org/ |
| 01:12:50 | BZFlag | back soon. |
| 01:12:58 | BZFlag | well, not too soon. ;-) |
| 01:13:02 | bzdoug | cool |
| 01:13:03 | bzdoug | hehe |
| 01:13:06 | Crooze | in an hour then |
| 01:13:24 | bzdoug | thinks BZFlag has a digital camera |
| 01:13:35 | Crooze | going for lunch |
| 01:13:40 | bzdoug | heh |
| 01:13:48 | bzdoug | is away: bed |
| 01:14:07 | bzdoug | ibot part #zaurus |
| 01:15:13 | bzdoug | is truly away: bed |
| 01:18:49 | SpacemanSpiff | I was wondering guys.... how come there isn't a league for regular games? Like instead of a CTF league, just a regular game league??? |
| 01:22:18 | captain_proton | because nobody put one together |
| 01:22:43 | SpacemanSpiff | I think that it should be put together.... if I knew how and had web space I would do it myself |
| 01:23:04 | SpacemanSpiff | Hey Noodleman |
| 01:23:08 | Noodleman | sup? |
| 01:23:41 | SpacemanSpiff | Not too much... I was just theorizing about how cool it would be to have a regular league.. besides the CTF league |
| 01:23:47 | SpacemanSpiff | What's up with you? |
| 01:24:05 | Noodleman | nothing really |
| 01:24:19 | Noodleman | just got one of those free ecurity tests done on my server :-) |
| 01:24:25 | Noodleman | security * |
| 01:24:44 | SpacemanSpiff | CooL :-) |
| 01:24:55 | SpacemanSpiff | Do you think that a regular league would be cool? |
| 01:25:21 | Noodleman | sounds like a neat idea |
| 01:25:51 | Noodleman | chestal and valoche's site will be available for download on sourceforge soon |
| 01:25:58 | SpacemanSpiff | I would sooo set up the site myself... all I need to do is get some web space... I may very well do it |
| 01:26:00 | Noodleman | we could modify that, and use it |
| 01:26:14 | Noodleman | we would need a database |
| 01:26:23 | Noodleman | we could host it on my server |
| 01:26:25 | bzdoug | hey Noodleman |
| 01:26:30 | Noodleman | what's up? |
| 01:26:51 | bzdoug | the sky |
| 01:26:59 | Noodleman | me and spiff were just talking about a free-for-all league |
| 01:27:09 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:27:10 | Noodleman | would that be cool? |
| 01:27:13 | bzdoug | sounds cool |
| 01:27:14 | bzdoug | yea |
| 01:27:40 | Noodleman | are you playing on sunday? |
| 01:27:45 | bzdoug | um |
| 01:27:51 | bzdoug | theres a game sunday? |
| 01:28:06 | Noodleman | check the forum and your bzmailbox |
| 01:28:14 | bzdoug | ah |
| 01:28:23 | bzdoug | dont check it very often |
| 01:28:30 | Noodleman | i've been yelling at everyone for sitting on their butts eating doritos |
| 01:28:39 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:28:57 | Noodleman | since you don't check it very often, could you hand me the reins? |
| 01:29:04 | bzdoug | YES! |
| 01:29:16 | bzdoug | was gonna ask Noodleman about that very thing |
| 01:29:17 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 01:29:25 | Noodleman | did valoche and chestal add that yet? |
| 01:29:27 | bzdoug | he reads my mind I bey |
| 01:29:28 | bzdoug | no |
| 01:29:31 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:29:31 | bzdoug | but its possible |
| 01:29:35 | Noodleman | ok |
| 01:29:35 | bzdoug | let me email him |
| 01:29:39 | Noodleman | ok |
| 01:30:48 | bzdoug | *bing* |
| 01:30:56 | SpacemanSpiff | Sorry about that guys... was talkin' to myself, LoL |
| 01:31:18 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:31:22 | SpacemanSpiff | But yeah... If you wanted to host it I could do some of the graphics stuff for you Noodleman... I'm kinda new to html and all |
| 01:31:29 | Noodleman | ok |
| 01:31:35 | SpacemanSpiff | (I'm more of a graphic art kinda guy) |
| 01:31:36 | Noodleman | i'm an html pro |
| 01:31:41 | SpacemanSpiff | Awesome |
| 01:31:55 | Noodleman | and pretty good at graphics too |
| 01:32:00 | SpacemanSpiff | I can code simple stuff... like plain pages with pics, text, etc. :-) |
| 01:32:02 | Noodleman | but i need some help :-) |
| 01:32:12 | bzdoug | php? |
| 01:32:22 | Noodleman | i did the new look for stats.bzflag.org |
| 01:32:25 | Noodleman | *brag* |
| 01:32:27 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:32:30 | Noodleman | yes, i do php |
| 01:32:33 | Noodleman | and perl |
| 01:32:43 | Noodleman | i have a cool perl t-shirt |
| 01:32:44 | bzdoug | cool |
| 01:32:47 | bzdoug | python? |
| 01:32:53 | Noodleman | the camel one from thinkgeek |
| 01:32:59 | Noodleman | nope, no python |
| 01:33:12 | Noodleman | nor c |
| 01:33:15 | Noodleman | yet :-) |
| 01:33:15 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:33:19 | bzdoug | hah |
| 01:33:46 | Noodleman | it's got a perl program on the back in the shape of a camel :-) |
| 01:33:56 | bzdoug | lol |
| 01:34:00 | bzdoug | what does it do? |
| 01:34:25 | Noodleman | it prints 4 camels out on the screen |
| 01:34:36 | bzdoug | haaaa |
| 01:34:43 | Noodleman | bah, blasted korean spam |
| 01:34:59 | bzdoug | lol |
| 01:35:16 | Noodleman | i'm on all the korean spam lists, i declare |
| 01:35:33 | bzdoug | hah |
| 01:37:15 | Noodleman | so, what have you been up to, doug? |
| 01:37:23 | bzdoug | nothin |
| 01:37:29 | bzdoug | trying to upgrade my computer |
| 01:37:35 | Noodleman | to what? |
| 01:37:40 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:37:49 | | Noodleman: excuse me? |
| 01:37:49 | Noodleman | ibot 4096x3072 |
| 01:37:54 | | 12582912 |
| 01:37:54 | Noodleman | ibot 4096*3072 |
| 01:37:56 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:38:00 | Noodleman | he's smart :-) |
| 01:38:04 | bzdoug | to a athlon xp 1800 |
| 01:38:08 | bzdoug | yea right |
| 01:38:11 | Noodleman | from what? |
| 01:38:17 | bzdoug | 333 mhz |
| 01:38:19 | bzdoug | snorts |
| 01:38:22 | Noodleman | gee |
| 01:38:30 | bzdoug | I had a 600 mhz comp |
| 01:38:33 | Noodleman | how much ram, and what type? |
| 01:38:36 | bzdoug | but it had no APG slot |
| 01:39:02 | bzdoug | I have sdram right now, 300+ and will be upgrading to DDR when I get the money |
| 01:39:18 | Noodleman | my server i built has 512 megs of ddr |
| 01:39:25 | bzdoug | wow |
| 01:39:25 | Noodleman | it just about broke me :-) |
| 01:39:34 | bzdoug | if you have any spare lying around... |
| 01:39:37 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:39:40 | Noodleman | i wish... |
| 01:39:41 | bzdoug | 99 bucks for ddr |
| 01:39:52 | Noodleman | http://tigerdirect.com/ |
| 01:39:53 | bzdoug | 512 |
| 01:39:56 | bzdoug | nah |
| 01:39:57 | Noodleman | much cheaper |
| 01:40:00 | bzdoug | pricewatch.com |
| 01:40:11 | Noodleman | well, yeah |
| 01:40:15 | Noodleman | on pricewatch |
| 01:40:28 | Noodleman | but those jerks make it up with the shipping |
| 01:40:31 | Spaceman_Spiff | Hmm.... my pc just went nuts |
| 01:40:37 | Noodleman | weird |
| 01:40:42 | Noodleman | get linux :-) |
| 01:40:52 | Spaceman_Spiff | So...... I guess the SpacemanSpiff is a messed up thing from my pc |
| 01:40:55 | bzdoug | yea |
| 01:41:09 | Noodleman | it's happened to me before |
| 01:41:11 | Spaceman_Spiff | Either that or someone is lame enough to want to impersonate ME, LoL |
| 01:41:12 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:41:15 | Spaceman_Spiff | Hehe :-) |
| 01:41:24 | sussudio | turkey.moongroup is so totally gay |
| 01:41:28 | Noodleman | pat told me how to register my handle, but i forgot |
| 01:41:29 | bzdoug | ? |
| 01:41:39 | bzdoug | do it |
| 01:41:49 | bzdoug | /msg nickserv help |
| 01:42:06 | Spaceman_Spiff | Hey Noodle.. you want me to e-mail you a sample of one of my graphics? |
| 01:42:17 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:42:18 | bzdoug | well |
| 01:42:22 | bzdoug | I am off to bed |
| 01:42:24 | bzdoug | again |
| 01:42:28 | Noodleman | ok |
| 01:42:28 | sussudio | Hi, I would like your advice on one of my graphics |
| 01:42:29 | Noodleman | cya |
| 01:42:30 | Spaceman_Spiff | Okie dokie bzdoug |
| 01:42:30 | bzdoug | I got up to read slashdot |
| 01:42:39 | sussudio | [attachment bigbad.vbs] |
| 01:42:39 | Spaceman_Spiff | God Bless |
| 01:42:44 | bzdoug | wonders if thats normal |
| 01:42:49 | bzdoug | heh, cya |
| 01:42:51 | Noodleman | sure, send me your graphics at tucker@noodleroni.com |
| 01:42:52 | Spaceman_Spiff | G-night :-) |
| 01:43:06 | | just a cheap substitute for caffeine. |
| 01:43:06 | bzdoug | ibot sleep |
| 01:43:13 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 01:43:48 | bzdoug | is away: bed bed bed ned edn en dbe bed be db ebd eb db ebd zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 01:43:50 | Spaceman_Spiff | Hehe... I'll make up a quick Free For All logo... just as a kinda demo :-) |
| 01:44:04 | | hmmm... sheep is at #tuxboxproject |
| 01:44:04 | sussudio | ibot sheep |
| 01:45:34 | Noodleman | i haven't received any yet... :-) |
| 01:45:59 | | the cow that went oink |
| 01:45:59 | bzdoug | ibot sussudio? |
| 01:46:10 | bzdoug | ok ok, I am trully off to bed |
| 01:46:23 | sussudio | shut up bitchass |
| 01:46:29 | bzdoug | tsk tsk |
| 01:47:40 | | you are probably making my replacement |
| 01:47:40 | Noodleman | ibot noodleman? |
| 01:47:55 | | Noodleman: what? |
| 01:47:55 | Noodleman | ibot Spaceman_Spiff |
| 01:47:58 | | noodleman: i haven't a clue |
| 01:47:58 | Noodleman | ibot Spaceman_Spiff? |
| 01:48:03 | bzdoug | iboy sussudio? |
| 01:48:06 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 01:48:17 | bzdoug | is eating an apple |
| 01:48:27 | Noodleman | is eating a pc |
| 01:48:31 | bzdoug | a docter a day keeps the apple away!! |
| 01:48:44 | Spaceman_Spiff | What do you think the logo should say?? |
| 01:48:53 | Spaceman_Spiff | Just like "Free For All"? |
| 01:48:58 | Spaceman_Spiff | LoL |
| 01:48:59 | bzdoug | Spaceman_Spiff: Free!!!! ALL FREE!!!!! for all |
| 01:49:03 | Noodleman | maybe 'Free-for-All League' |
| 01:49:09 | Spaceman_Spiff | Ahh... good idea |
| 01:49:40 | bzdoug | wow |
| 01:49:46 | bzdoug | 5500 for dsl |
| 01:49:47 | Noodleman | i guess no one caught my joke :-) |
| 01:49:57 | Noodleman | bloddy heck! |
| 01:49:58 | bzdoug | Noodleman: lol |
| 01:50:13 | bzdoug | well |
| 01:50:18 | bzdoug | the dsl IS fast |
| 01:50:30 | bzdoug | 6 mbps x 896 kbps |
| 01:50:39 | bzdoug | plus 1200 for installation |
| 01:50:55 | bzdoug | ok |
| 01:51:02 | | Bzdoug is heckastupid |
| 01:51:02 | Noodleman | ibot bzdoug? |
| 01:51:04 | bzdoug | off to bed, maybe |
| 01:51:06 | Noodleman | lol |
| 01:51:07 | bzdoug | LOL |
| 01:51:25 | Noodleman | where does it get these things to say? |
| 01:51:38 | bzdoug | sussudio |
| 01:51:41 | Spaceman_Spiff | Okay... I think I have one |
| 01:51:46 | Noodleman | ok |
| 01:51:49 | | bzdoug: I forgot bzdoug |
| 01:51:49 | bzdoug | ibot forget bzdoug |
| 01:51:50 | Spaceman_Spiff | I'm gonna send it Noodleman :-) |
| 01:51:50 | Noodleman | tucker@noodleroni.com |
| 01:52:01 | | OK, bzdoug. |
| 01:52:01 | bzdoug | ibot bzdoug is <reply> | |
| 01:52:10 | | | |
| 01:52:10 | Noodleman | ibot bzdoug? |
| 01:52:53 | bzdoug | I can get T1 access to my house for 100 bucks a month |
| 01:53:10 | Noodleman | get it! |
| 01:53:12 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:53:16 | bzdoug | :P |
| 01:53:21 | bzdoug | you paying? |
| 01:53:33 | Noodleman | no way, d00d |
| 01:53:35 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:53:38 | Spaceman_Spiff | Hmm... is there some way to make this graphic a little smaller without chaning it to a JPG??? Jpeg's make it kinda smudgy |
| 01:53:54 | Noodleman | what image program are you using? |
| 01:54:06 | bzdoug | photoshop? |
| 01:54:15 | bzdoug | save it as a png |
| 01:54:35 | | bzdoug is turdburglar |
| 01:54:35 | Noodleman | ibot bzdoug? |
| 01:54:39 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:54:41 | Spaceman_Spiff | Well, I have a few |
| 01:54:46 | Noodleman | who did that one? |
| 01:54:49 | bzdoug | sussudio |
| 01:54:52 | | bzdoug: i haven't a clue |
| 01:54:52 | bzdoug | ibot sussudio? |
| 01:55:07 | | OK, bzdoug. |
| 01:55:07 | bzdoug | ibot sussudio is <reply> the COW that WENT |
| 01:55:09 | Spaceman_Spiff | Corel Photo Paint, Photo Finish, UFX, Dogwaffle, GIMP, etc. |
| 01:55:11 | | the COW that WENT |
| 01:55:11 | bzdoug | ibot sussudio? |
| 01:55:21 | bzdoug | Spaceman_Spiff: ick |
| 01:55:23 | bzdoug | ok |
| 01:55:25 | bzdoug | off to bed |
| 01:55:25 | bzdoug | cya |
| 01:55:29 | bzdoug | tah tah |
| 01:55:31 | bzdoug | bye bye |
| 01:55:33 | Spaceman_Spiff | ick?? Huh? |
| 01:55:34 | bzdoug | night night |
| 01:55:36 | Noodleman | cya |
| 01:55:40 | Noodleman | L8rZ!! |
| 01:55:44 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:55:54 | Spaceman_Spiff | C-ya doug :P |
| 01:56:18 | Spaceman_Spiff | I'll just send you the bmp Noodleman.. but it may take a minute.. it's about 550 k I think |
| 01:56:27 | Noodleman | that's fine |
| 01:56:31 | Noodleman | i have cable :-) |
| 01:56:45 | bzdoug | $33 µ &µY$ |_4+3|2 *|<? |-|4|-|4|-|4, ¡ /\/\ 4 \/\/4/\//\/483 |-|4><3|2!!! |
| 01:57:20 | Spaceman_Spiff | I wish I did :| |
| 01:57:23 | bzdoug | snickers at his |_33'|' speak |
| 01:57:29 | Spaceman_Spiff | I'm still stuck with 56 k |
| 01:57:31 | Noodleman | see you guys later... |
| 01:57:34 | bzdoug | cya |
| 01:57:47 | Noodleman | i can't read the rest |
| 01:57:52 | Noodleman | ha ha ha ha |
| 01:57:53 | bzdoug | is away: |33|], &00|) /\/!6|-|'|' |
| 01:57:56 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:58:07 | Noodleman | .....hacker |
| 01:58:17 | Spaceman_Spiff | Huh? |
| 01:58:23 | bzdoug | ! |33'|' |_| [4/\/7 |234|) 7|-|¡$ |\|00|)13/\/\4/\/!!!! |_| 4|23 $**0* |=µ/\/|\|Y!!! :P |
| 01:58:30 | Noodleman | i'm a wannabe hacker!!!! |
| 01:58:34 | chsh[KR] | lol |
| 01:58:35 | Noodleman | leet |
| 01:58:36 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:58:37 | Spaceman_Spiff | I'm lost |
| 01:58:48 | Spaceman_Spiff | What does that stuff mean? *confused face* |
| 01:58:52 | Noodleman | ...noobie? |
| 01:58:59 | Noodleman | hacker speak |
| 01:59:04 | bzdoug | i bet you cant read this noodlemaniiii you are soooo funnyiii :p |
| 01:59:11 | Spaceman_Spiff | I don't know much about programming or anything.. I really want to lear though :-) |
| 01:59:12 | bzdoug | iii = !!! |
| 01:59:14 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 01:59:16 | Spaceman_Spiff | learn^ |
| 01:59:20 | bzdoug | haha |
| 01:59:40 | Noodleman | did you just write that, or do you have a converter? |
| 01:59:48 | bzdoug | 5p4[3/\/\4/\/$P¡|=|= |-|µ|-|? Y34 |2¡@|-|7, ! 83'|' |_| [4/\/+ 5P34|< P!6 |_4'|'¡/\/... |
| 01:59:52 | bzdoug | um, I right it |
| 01:59:54 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 02:00:13 | bzdoug | converter |
| 02:00:15 | Noodleman | i can't decipher that one... |
| 02:00:21 | Spaceman_Spiff | Okay.. it's attatched Noodle.. I have to go.. but I'm sending it.. e-mail me and tell me what ya think? |
| 02:00:21 | bzdoug | me niether |
| 02:00:23 | Noodleman | i thought so... |
| 02:00:29 | Noodleman | sure |
| 02:00:36 | chsh[KR] | \/\/|-|0 |\|33|)5 4 (0|\|\/3R73R? |
| 02:00:40 | bzdoug | haaaa |
| 02:00:42 | Noodleman | cYuuZ |
| 02:00:44 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:00:51 | bzdoug | I do, thats who |
| 02:00:53 | Noodleman | who needs a converter? |
| 02:00:56 | chsh[KR] | ah |
| 02:00:59 | chsh[KR] | no |
| 02:01:05 | chsh[KR] | it says 'bzdoug is a commie' |
| 02:01:05 | Spaceman_Spiff | Okay... well.. I'm gone.. must go have devotions :-) |
| 02:01:12 | Spaceman_Spiff | God bless you all! |
| 02:01:14 | Noodleman | where is the converter you're using? |
| 02:01:17 | bzdoug | chsh[]: yea right |
| 02:01:20 | chsh[KR] | :) |
| 02:01:21 | Noodleman | likewise! |
| 02:01:24 | bzdoug | Noodleman: windows proggy |
| 02:01:24 | Spaceman_Spiff | Bye bye! :o) |
| 02:01:24 | Noodleman | cya!!! |
| 02:01:26 | bzdoug | cya!! |
| 02:01:32 | bzdoug | (drums) |
| 02:01:33 | Noodleman | where can i get it? |
| 02:01:36 | bzdoug | um |
| 02:01:37 | bzdoug | dunno |
| 02:01:38 | chsh[KR] | ugh |
| 02:01:40 | bzdoug | google for it |
| 02:01:44 | Noodleman | send it to me |
| 02:01:50 | Noodleman | whats the name? |
| 02:02:01 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 02:02:07 | chsh[KR] | \/\/\/\/\/\/.13375P34|<.(0/\/\ |
| 02:02:13 | Noodleman | ok |
| 02:02:18 | chsh[KR] | :) |
| 02:02:19 | Noodleman | leetspeak |
| 02:02:30 | bzdoug | DCCing |
| 02:02:38 | chsh[KR] | lol |
| 02:02:46 | Noodleman | i don't know if mine will do that, but you can try |
| 02:03:00 | bzdoug | J00 PIG |
| 02:03:03 | bzdoug | ok |
| 02:03:08 | Noodleman | you pig |
| 02:03:09 | bzdoug | nope |
| 02:03:10 | bzdoug | um |
| 02:03:20 | Noodleman | you can ftp it |
| 02:03:31 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 02:03:32 | bzdoug | true |
| 02:05:25 | Noodleman | i'll see if it runs in wine |
| 02:05:29 | bzdoug | hehe |
| 02:05:35 | Noodleman | i wouldn't doubt if it does |
| 02:05:35 | bzdoug | it uses the vbrun file |
| 02:05:40 | Noodleman | yeah |
| 02:06:01 | Noodleman | there it is... |
| 02:06:04 | Noodleman | it works |
| 02:06:07 | bzdoug | hah |
| 02:07:20 | chsh[KR] | I can't believe it |
| 02:07:29 | Noodleman | 7|-|!5 !$ 4 735'|' |
| 02:07:30 | bzdoug | I do |
| 02:07:32 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:07:33 | chsh[KR] | you guys are trading windows 13375P34K crap |
| 02:07:41 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:07:54 | bzdoug | nuudlemun is su seelly, I cun telk leeke-a thees |
| 02:08:25 | bzdoug | noodleman is like, ya know, so silly, fer shure, I can talk like this |
| 02:08:35 | bzdoug | noodleman is so silly, Ah c'n talk like this |
| 02:08:45 | Noodleman | yup, he's from kentucky |
| 02:08:45 | bzdoug | noodeman is to tiwwy, I an dak wike dhis |
| 02:08:47 | Noodleman | LOL |
| 02:08:55 | bzdoug | nMOOdleman is soo silly, I can talk like this |
| 02:09:24 | bzdoug | haha, I wike dhis kin of dak |
| 02:10:09 | bzdoug | wants to pop into #linux and talk like that |
| 02:11:16 | Noodleman | 8z|)*u9 |
| 02:11:29 | bzdoug | lol |
| 02:11:48 | Noodleman | i think i'll write a php script to do this |
| 02:11:50 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:12:06 | bzdoug | haha |
| 02:12:07 | bzdoug | do it |
| 02:12:41 | bzdoug | hah, I joined #linux and asked @ny0n3 h3r3 kn0w 1!nux? |
| 02:12:56 | Noodleman | LOL |
| 02:12:58 | bzdoug | @|\|y0|\|3 |{3|)\3 |<|\|0|/\| |_||\||_|x? |
| 02:13:14 | Noodleman | maybe |
| 02:13:24 | bzdoug | hah |
| 02:14:08 | MrApathyCream | crooze? |
| 02:14:12 | bzdoug | ok |
| 02:14:15 | bzdoug | off I go to bed |
| 02:14:51 | bzdoug | is away: ahhay, offyay otay edbay Iyay ogay, OLLAY |
| 02:15:28 | bzdoug | isyay awayyay: edbay imetay!!! ollay opehay youay ikelay isthay owshay! |
| 02:15:46 | Noodleman | i don't believe it |
| 02:15:54 | Noodleman | he's not at all off to bed |
| 02:21:39 | Noodleman | 8z|]*u6 !$ 4 57|_|P!|] !/\/\83[!|3. |
| 02:22:00 | BZFlag | is back. How's your karma? |
| 02:23:12 | BZFlag | bzdoug: ask if anyone has a crack for linux |
| 02:23:39 | Noodleman | what kind of a crack? |
| 02:23:45 | Noodleman | and why do you need it? |
| 02:27:34 | BZFlag | like serialz warez for linux |
| 02:27:57 | Noodleman | there's not much warez for linux :-) |
| 02:28:09 | BZFlag | it's a joke. sheesh. ;-) |
| 02:28:26 | Noodleman | what is 'serialz' any way? |
| 02:28:40 | Noodleman | is that like serial numbers? |
| 02:29:50 | Noodleman | bzflag~timr@rikers.org... |
| 02:29:54 | Noodleman | are you tim? |
| 02:31:16 | Noodleman | i'll fill up the channel with 1337 speak if i don't get an answer :-P |
| 02:32:05 | Crooze | is back from lunch |
| 02:32:24 | Crooze | MrApathyCream? |
| 02:34:45 | BZFlag | so these are my karma team/server thoughts. |
| 02:35:05 | BZFlag | I think the default on a server would be that the player with the highest karma has kick rights. |
| 02:35:36 | BZFlag | misuse, endangers --ing from the others on the server. |
| 02:35:43 | Crooze | wouldn't it be more appropriate to vote and have karma giving more weight? |
| 02:35:50 | BZFlag | might be other rights granted on a server basis too. |
| 02:36:23 | BZFlag | Crooze: I don't think so. but I'm open to ideas. |
| 02:36:54 | Crooze | if a player has 0 karma and all servers require +30 karma how do players get on to increase their karma? |
| 02:37:18 | BZFlag | teams... the highest karma on a team may "lock" the team. a locked team stays until a higher karma player on another team unlocks it or the locker leaves. |
| 02:37:48 | BZFlag | a locked team allows the locker to kick or block joins. |
| 02:38:10 | BZFlag | Crooze: I will always run an open server. I hope others will do the same. |
| 02:38:33 | BZFlag | min karma will be run-time settable by the admin anyway. |
| 02:39:23 | BZFlag | the "server list" will grey out any servers that you do not have access to. |
| 02:39:27 | Crooze | will your karma be calculated based on everybody who has rated you? or based on who is currently on the server being joined |
| 02:39:42 | BZFlag | based on everybody |
| 02:39:45 | Noodleman | anyone want me to /msg them the gettysburg address in 1337sp34|{ ? |
| 02:39:47 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:40:16 | BZFlag | heh, serves him right. |
| 02:40:48 | Crooze | some people can't help themselves :-) |
| 02:41:52 | Crooze | i still think that a team could have a vote system and maybe a captain. |
| 02:42:20 | Crooze | captain has lock/ban power for team |
| 02:42:30 | BZFlag | http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectp.cgi?dialect=hckr&url=http%3A%2F%2FBZFlag.org%2F |
| 02:43:20 | BZFlag | msging can handling any requests. the high karma is the one that has the power. |
| 02:44:19 | BZFlag | Noodleman: http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectp.cgi?dialect=hckr&url=http://BZFlag.org/ |
| 02:44:27 | Crooze | i guess the only way we can tell is by putting it live and see how people like it. it's a good concept. |
| 02:44:36 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 02:44:40 | BZFlag | now for leages... leage play is like team play but persistant. |
| 02:44:44 | Noodleman | i've seen that page before :-) |
| 02:46:14 | BZFlag | Though I see more need for voting there, or perhaps the league founder (which can be handed off) has slightly higher rights than the highest karma league member. |
| 02:47:29 | BZFlag | if a league member is the highest karma player on a server team, then when they lock the team, they can limit it to league members. just shorthand for what they could do anyway. |
| 02:49:00 | BZFlag | again, when they leave, the lock expires. |
| 02:49:47 | Crooze | server team... does this mean that a league player must permanently play for one team? |
| 02:51:50 | BZFlag | no. |
| 02:52:38 | BZFlag | If I'm a "goon" and I happen to be the highest karma player on the "green" team. I can lock the team for "goon" members only. |
| 02:52:54 | Crooze | so a league player can join any team when they connect to the server? |
| 02:53:00 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 02:53:24 | BZFlag | there will be skins for league members. but teams are generic. |
| 02:53:35 | Crooze | how do you become a league player |
| 02:53:40 | BZFlag | so you might be red, green, etc with a "goon" league logo. |
| 02:54:04 | BZFlag | the league member lets you in. |
| 02:54:14 | BZFlag | er league leader.. |
| 02:54:18 | Crooze | is "goon" the name of the team or the player? |
| 02:54:32 | BZFlag | "goon" is an example league |
| 02:55:31 | Crooze | do leagues compete against other leagues or within themselves? |
| 02:55:56 | Crooze | \me could stop asking stupid questions if was referred to documentation |
| 02:56:09 | Crooze | could stop asking stupid questions if was referred to documentation |
| 02:56:14 | BZFlag | both. being the highest karma league member should give you rights. but being the founder/owner gives you more rights. |
| 02:56:41 | BZFlag | some of these thoughts are written down, most are not yet. |
| 02:58:50 | Crooze | for normal bz can players have their own texture which transparently overlays the color of the tank (i.e. a per player skin) |
| 02:59:26 | Crooze | though... how would the texture map be distributed? |
| 03:00:50 | BZFlag | skins and meshes are installed by the admin. |
| 03:01:43 | Crooze | on the server? how do the clients get them? |
| 03:03:57 | BZFlag | all world and player meshes and maps are sent when the client app requests them. |
| 03:04:18 | BZFlag | the client will cache them. the game will come with the "default" set. |
| 03:06:06 | Crooze | would it be possible for a client to send a user skin to the server? (could you explain the skin and mesh?) and then the server can distribute to other clients? |
| 03:07:09 | Patlabor221 | wow is someone sugesting models done right? |
| 03:09:12 | Crooze | lives in an ideal world |
| 03:09:26 | Crooze | Australia that is ;-) |
| 03:10:08 | Patlabor221 | except that you are updside down |
| 03:10:42 | Crooze | i'm facing the sun at the moment... so maybe i'm not so upside down |
| 03:11:04 | Patlabor221 | problem you would have if you blindly trusted the client would be if the user put in a bad model for resosons of cheating |
| 03:12:37 | Patlabor221 | common solution is to have the users intstall the models, and if they don't have the model for a person to use the default |
| 03:12:39 | Crooze | only allow particular model definitions to be uploaded... i.e. a mesh. |
| 03:12:51 | Patlabor221 | there is no perfect way to detect bad models |
| 03:13:07 | Patlabor221 | I can make a mesh that makes me invisible |
| 03:13:27 | Patlabor221 | same with a skin |
| 03:13:37 | Patlabor221 | all alpahed out |
| 03:14:06 | Patlabor221 | you would have to have the server admin aprove the models |
| 03:14:11 | Crooze | why wouldn't you just be black or a solid color? |
| 03:14:22 | Patlabor221 | if I wanted to cheat |
| 03:14:53 | Patlabor221 | simpletst thing would be to make the mesh all in a single vert |
| 03:15:25 | Patlabor221 | or move the mesh below the world |
| 03:15:28 | Patlabor221 | or above it |
| 03:15:29 | Crooze | maybe a particular logo area on the tank? |
| 03:15:38 | Crooze | can't be completely transparent then. |
| 03:16:02 | Patlabor221 | adding a decal would not be hard |
| 03:16:46 | Patlabor221 | thing that sucks is that when you allow the user to change something that changes how they look to the other users |
| 03:17:01 | Patlabor221 | it will be turned into an exploit if it can be |
| 03:17:12 | Crooze | human nature... |
| 03:17:19 | Patlabor221 | sadly |
| 03:19:06 | Crooze | wouldn't the tank have a base color? providing transparent images would show the base color... not invisible |
| 03:19:44 | Patlabor221 | depends on how it's implemented |
| 03:19:52 | Patlabor221 | if you are replacing the texutre |
| 03:20:07 | Patlabor221 | then the base poly color is only bleneded with the texure |
| 03:20:52 | Patlabor221 | if the texture has 0% alpha it's all blended out to transperant |
| 03:21:55 | Patlabor221 | if your just looking for a team marking then you can just do a decal |
| 03:22:22 | Patlabor221 | if you are looking for total customisation then you are looking at at least a skin replacement |
| 03:22:57 | Patlabor221 | you could force skins to not have alpha |
| 03:23:07 | Patlabor221 | but then you would limit what you could do with them |
| 03:25:12 | Crooze | is 0% alpha the only circumstance it can be transparent? |
| 03:25:22 | Crooze | why not black? |
| 03:25:24 | Patlabor221 | for a texture replacement |
| 03:25:27 | Patlabor221 | black is a color |
| 03:25:36 | Patlabor221 | r0 g0 b0 |
| 03:26:00 | Patlabor221 | some systems remove black |
| 03:26:10 | Patlabor221 | and make it transperant |
| 03:26:15 | Patlabor221 | but it dosn't have to be like that |
| 03:26:24 | Patlabor221 | makes a hard edge and looks like crap |
| 03:26:29 | Crooze | i thought transparent meant transparent to the underlying skin |
| 03:26:48 | Patlabor221 | what underlying skin? |
| 03:26:53 | Patlabor221 | a skin is a texture |
| 03:27:03 | Patlabor221 | it's applied to polygons on a mesh |
| 03:27:17 | Patlabor221 | those polys can have color that is modulated with the texture |
| 03:27:37 | Crooze | is it the mesh that causes transparency? |
| 03:27:39 | Patlabor221 | the texture can have an alpah compoenent per pixel from 0 to %100 |
| 03:27:49 | Patlabor221 | the mesh is just geomery |
| 03:28:00 | Patlabor221 | everything in bz is techicaly a mesh |
| 03:28:10 | Patlabor221 | a grouping of triangles |
| 03:28:28 | Patlabor221 | GL has a number of ways to draw triangles |
| 03:28:30 | Crooze | so mesh is geometrical dimensions for the texture (skin) to be applied |
| 03:28:46 | Patlabor221 | the mesh is the 3d geometry |
| 03:28:51 | Patlabor221 | like a box |
| 03:29:02 | Patlabor221 | you can draw that box lots of difrent ways |
| 03:29:05 | Crooze | okay... |
| 03:29:05 | Patlabor221 | wireframe |
| 03:29:12 | Patlabor221 | flat shaded |
| 03:29:15 | Patlabor221 | smooth shaded |
| 03:29:18 | Patlabor221 | or textured |
| 03:29:29 | Patlabor221 | the texture is just applied to the triangles |
| 03:29:33 | Crooze | can it be solid with a texture? |
| 03:29:35 | Patlabor221 | sure |
| 03:29:44 | Patlabor221 | what is solid? |
| 03:30:19 | Patlabor221 | it's just a bunch of simple mathamatical surfaces |
| 03:30:45 | Crooze | can we have a base texture which the other textures are applied? |
| 03:30:51 | Patlabor221 | textureing is just another way to color the pixels when a surface is renders |
| 03:31:02 | Patlabor221 | yes you can have multipass textures |
| 03:31:04 | Patlabor221 | but it's slower |
| 03:31:14 | Patlabor221 | since you have to basicly render twice |
| 03:31:44 | Patlabor221 | Quake 3 allows you to define a "shader" instead of a texture |
| 03:31:52 | Patlabor221 | and that shader can refrence any number of textures |
| 03:32:04 | Patlabor221 | and you tell the engine how to blend them together |
| 03:32:09 | Crooze | can we have a process which renders the textures together on joining and uses the new texture. |
| 03:32:28 | Patlabor221 | yes bit there are better ways to do it |
| 03:32:40 | Patlabor221 | are you just looking for a team logo on a tank? |
| 03:33:46 | Crooze | a player logo... but others would want more. |
| 03:34:04 | Crooze | say a logo which covers most of the tank. |
| 03:34:14 | Patlabor221 | it could be done |
| 03:34:18 | Patlabor221 | but why not skin it |
| 03:34:32 | Patlabor221 | just replace the texure |
| 03:34:41 | Patlabor221 | and then make them avalable for download |
| 03:34:54 | Patlabor221 | that way people who don't want to see it don't have to install it |
| 03:35:03 | Crooze | but then you would have the problem of transparency... |
| 03:35:25 | Patlabor221 | yes but if it's an optional dowload then they don't have to insall it |
| 03:35:46 | Patlabor221 | means that someone can not force them to use the texture |
| 03:35:52 | Crooze | seems a big effort to personalise your tank. |
| 03:36:03 | Patlabor221 | that's how all the FPS's do it |
| 03:36:45 | Patlabor221 | you have to ballance the artisitc needs with the cheaters |
| 03:37:17 | Patlabor221 | anything other then an optional donwload puts one of those partys in the shitter. |
| 03:37:27 | Crooze | i still think that the tanks need a base color (i.e. red, green, etc) |
| 03:37:40 | Patlabor221 | and they have that |
| 03:37:48 | Patlabor221 | it would be modulated with the texture |
| 03:37:58 | Patlabor221 | that's how GL normaly does textureing |
| 03:37:58 | Crooze | if i wanted to experiment with this stuff where should i look? |
| 03:38:08 | Patlabor221 | standard modeling stuff |
| 03:38:14 | Patlabor221 | get a copy of milkshape |
| 03:38:17 | Patlabor221 | and have at it |
| 03:38:25 | Crooze | i mean for bzflag |
| 03:38:38 | Patlabor221 | well in 1.7 all the models are hardcoded |
| 03:38:47 | Patlabor221 | you could replace there texutres |
| 03:38:56 | Patlabor221 | in 1.8 they are defined as BZG files |
| 03:39:04 | Patlabor221 | and they self refrence there textures. |
| 03:39:33 | Crooze | is it hard to do multi layered texturing... or would i need to modify bz code? |
| 03:39:41 | Patlabor221 | yes you wold |
| 03:39:43 | Patlabor221 | would |
| 03:39:48 | Patlabor221 | it's not that hard |
| 03:39:57 | Patlabor221 | depending on how you want to do it |
| 03:40:03 | Patlabor221 | and what hardware you want to support |
| 03:40:13 | Patlabor221 | there is ann ARB multi texture extension |
| 03:40:18 | Patlabor221 | that could be used |
| 03:40:37 | Crooze | open gl doesn't support this? |
| 03:40:54 | Patlabor221 | base 1.3 GL does not support a single pass multi texture |
| 03:41:01 | Patlabor221 | it's handaled by an extension |
| 03:41:08 | Patlabor221 | or you can just draw the thing twice |
| 03:41:38 | Crooze | are the extensions good? |
| 03:42:04 | Patlabor221 | they are used often |
| 03:42:12 | Patlabor221 | but not all hardware supports it |
| 03:42:17 | Patlabor221 | not do all drivers |
| 03:42:26 | Patlabor221 | so you have to be able to handle it not being there |
| 03:43:06 | Crooze | where can i found info about the extensions? |
| 03:43:28 | Patlabor221 | blue book |
| 03:43:46 | Crooze | blue book? |
| 03:44:02 | Patlabor221 | the open gl refrence guide |
| 03:44:09 | Patlabor221 | AKA the blue book |
| 03:44:20 | Patlabor221 | or the Open GL programers guide |
| 03:44:24 | Patlabor221 | AKA the red book |
| 03:44:33 | Patlabor221 | it's all at www.opengl.org |
| 03:45:00 | Patlabor221 | for 1.8 the model format should support multi texture for models that want it |
| 03:45:08 | Patlabor221 | if it dosn't then it should be added |
| 03:45:39 | Crooze | okay... the .bzg format... is there much to it? |
| 03:45:47 | Patlabor221 | it's XML |
| 03:45:52 | Patlabor221 | and yes there is a bit to it |
| 03:46:03 | Patlabor221 | not the best format in my optinion |
| 03:46:22 | Patlabor221 | but that's proalby because I was the one that tried to make a converter for it |
| 03:46:29 | Crooze | is there a sample version of multi-layered texturing? |
| 03:46:44 | Patlabor221 | I don't know if it supports |
| 03:46:45 | Patlabor221 | it |
| 03:46:56 | Patlabor221 | the format I mean |
| 03:47:03 | MrApathyCream | Crooze: that patch actually come from a problem, or just idle purusing |
| 03:49:06 | Crooze | patch 617938? it kept crashing when installing config.bzc... |
| 03:49:28 | MrApathyCream | in 1.7? |
| 03:49:34 | Crooze | patlabor221... if the format doesn't support it will 1.8? |
| 03:49:47 | Patlabor221 | that's what I am saying I don't know if 1.8 does |
| 03:49:48 | Crooze | MrApathyCream: the latest. |
| 03:49:53 | MrApathyCream | oh 1.8 |
| 03:49:54 | MrApathyCream | ok |
| 03:49:57 | Patlabor221 | 1.7 dosn't hve models |
| 03:50:04 | Patlabor221 | they are all hardcoded |
| 03:50:10 | Patlabor221 | like as C files |
| 03:50:41 | Crooze | 221: how much is done in 1.8? |
| 03:50:53 | Patlabor221 | mmmmm |
| 03:51:02 | Patlabor221 | new model reader |
| 03:51:06 | Patlabor221 | new texture loader |
| 03:51:14 | Patlabor221 | the start of new physics |
| 03:51:18 | Patlabor221 | the new menus |
| 03:51:19 | MrApathyCream | png/ogg |
| 03:51:24 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 03:51:29 | Patlabor221 | the XML readers |
| 03:51:41 | Patlabor221 | and a particle system |
| 03:51:52 | Patlabor221 | don't think the new net stuff is done |
| 03:51:53 | Crooze | impressive list |
| 03:51:58 | MrApathyCream | 6 flags or so |
| 03:52:01 | Patlabor221 | and the world render needs A LOT of work |
| 03:52:10 | MrApathyCream | tanks don't explode :( |
| 03:52:13 | Patlabor221 | dosn't have any ligting |
| 03:52:22 | MrApathyCream | network mostly not done |
| 03:52:31 | MrApathyCream | just patchly-like cleanup |
| 03:52:51 | Patlabor221 | it's got a lot of work |
| 03:52:56 | MrApathyCream | yupyup |
| 03:53:26 | Patlabor221 | map editor for that thing is gonna be a bitch |
| 03:53:33 | MrApathyCream | oh, and red/cyan 3d, heh |
| 03:53:41 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 03:53:53 | Patlabor221 | priorities are a bit wacked it seems |
| 03:53:53 | Crooze | i guess i've gotta spend a bit of time learning the structure of the code. |
| 03:54:41 | MrApathyCream | prioties: yeah... people letting real work get in the way of bz-dev |
| 03:54:51 | Crooze | are there plans of adding the handicapped game style... it works reasonably well... with the addition of configurable parameters. |
| 03:54:52 | MrApathyCream | not much is happening at the moment |
| 03:55:04 | MrApathyCream | dunno |
| 03:55:07 | Patlabor221 | I know, why dosn't the real world understand these things |
| 03:55:14 | Crooze | not enough spare time? |
| 03:55:25 | Patlabor221 | I think right now they just want to get the thing working like 1.7 did |
| 03:55:35 | Patlabor221 | it's a major rewite of lots of it |
| 03:55:46 | MrApathyCream | oh, king of the hill game style, added |
| 03:56:08 | Patlabor221 | game type should be externalised and handled by the server |
| 03:56:20 | Patlabor221 | then base code does not have to change for |
| 03:56:25 | Patlabor221 | game types |
| 03:56:41 | Crooze | sounds logical. |
| 03:56:43 | Patlabor221 | oh and alot of stuff got moved to the server |
| 03:56:55 | Patlabor221 | like hit detection and flag asignment |
| 03:58:43 | Patlabor221 | and I still say the game needs ammo |
| 03:59:03 | MrApathyCream | i dont' believe hit detection is in the server yet |
| 03:59:17 | Patlabor221 | maybe not |
| 03:59:26 | MrApathyCream | pickup-able ammo? |
| 03:59:27 | Patlabor221 | but more stuff is there I know |
| 03:59:35 | Patlabor221 | some kind of ammo |
| 03:59:42 | Patlabor221 | that would kill your campers |
| 03:59:48 | MrApathyCream | like you can run out of ammo? |
| 03:59:51 | MrApathyCream | not a bad idea |
| 03:59:53 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:00:06 | Patlabor221 | make the base guns have infinate ammo |
| 04:00:21 | Patlabor221 | or make things like GM laster and SW have limited shots |
| 04:00:26 | Patlabor221 | then the flag poofs |
| 04:00:27 | MrApathyCream | or perhaps the ammo packs are pro-rated by weapon |
| 04:00:39 | Patlabor221 | there are many ways it could be done |
| 04:02:00 | Patlabor221 | that's proalby the easyest way of balancing the weps |
| 04:02:23 | Patlabor221 | next to remving the "get hit once and die" thing |
| 04:02:28 | MrApathyCream | damageable tanks with repair-packs would be nice too |
| 04:02:32 | MrApathyCream | heh, lol |
| 04:02:36 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:02:44 | Patlabor221 | but then it's almost a difrent game |
| 04:02:56 | MrApathyCream | could always be optional |
| 04:03:22 | Patlabor221 | yup |
| 04:11:38 | Crooze | we had a armour option for our server/clients. and the person who kills you gets the point... not for each hit taken. |
| 04:12:37 | Crooze | we thought of auto regen... and holding super flags would stop regen |
| 04:12:48 | MrApathyCream | interesting |
| 04:12:58 | MrApathyCream | or maybe a heal flag |
| 04:13:09 | Patlabor221 | but still a GM provides cover from atacks |
| 04:13:19 | Patlabor221 | if it's allowed to fire for ever |
| 04:14:45 | Crooze | GM can be out maneuvred |
| 04:15:19 | Crooze | laser from afar can get them... |
| 04:15:58 | Crooze | oh yeah... when hit by a shot your flag is dropped (and may disappear) |
| 04:16:53 | Patlabor221 | still it's rather dificult to get someone when they are camped out on a high place |
| 04:17:01 | Patlabor221 | if they had to save there shots |
| 04:17:10 | Patlabor221 | there would be more stategy in them |
| 04:17:31 | Patlabor221 | or slow down the rate of fire on it |
| 04:17:59 | Patlabor221 | there should be a downside to it |
| 04:18:09 | Patlabor221 | since they get the bonus of not having to aim as much |
| 04:18:18 | Patlabor221 | and being the only wep to hit stuff below you |
| 04:18:22 | Patlabor221 | beside a SW |
| 04:18:38 | Patlabor221 | but the SW is balanced by shorter range |
| 04:26:51 | Patlabor221 | tis time for the restfull slumber |
| 04:26:55 | Patlabor221 | see ya all |
| 04:49:07 | lurgyman | dir |
| 04:49:16 | lurgyman | yup |
| 04:49:17 | lurgyman | ahem |
| 05:27:03 | Crooze | cya later. |
| 06:21:08 | Cell_prog_insect | can someone explain Hashcode, and why a possible hashcode of a Point2D class could be: Point2D.x XOR Point2D.Y? |
| 06:21:40 | Cell_prog_insect | hi akira_ |
| 06:21:44 | akira_ | hei |
| 06:22:29 | akira_ | how is it going? |
| 06:22:46 | Cell_prog_insect | quite well now |
| 06:23:57 | akira_ | why? |
| 06:24:23 | Cell_prog_insect | bad weather good for programming |
| 06:24:30 | akira_ | har |
| 06:24:33 | akira_ | here too |
| 06:24:46 | Cell_prog_insect | where is that |
| 06:25:33 | akira_ | md |
| 06:25:42 | bomber_ | moin |
| 06:25:58 | Cell_prog_insect | morning |
| 06:26:09 | akira_ | na, frankfurter |
| 06:29:22 | bomber_ | es regnet ohne ende |
| 06:33:23 | Cell_prog_insect | bei uns ist es nur naß |
| 10:33:25 | mirella | hi |
| 12:25:55 | bzdoug | yawns |
| 13:53:49 | | it has been said that bzdoug is turdburglar |
| 13:53:49 | chsh[] | ibot bzdoug |
| 13:53:53 | chsh[] | haha |
| 13:59:41 | lurgyman | ribbit |
| 14:10:26 | bzdoug | moo |
| 14:14:30 | | bzfquerylong ducati.bzflag.org 5156 |
| 14:14:30 | [TeA] | ibot, ducati |
| 14:23:55 | bzdoug | heya PatLabor221!!! |
| 14:24:12 | captain_proton | wonders how to burn bin/cue's under leenoox |
| 14:24:14 | PatLabor221 | yaha bzdoug!!! |
| 14:24:21 | PatLabor221 | I don't know |
| 14:24:28 | bzdoug | oh |
| 14:24:30 | PatLabor221 | they are just binary disk images |
| 14:24:35 | bzdoug | I just mounted it on my computer |
| 14:24:43 | bzdoug | installed fine |
| 14:24:49 | bzdoug | snickers |
| 14:25:04 | PatLabor221 | I have burned them under win by just telling the burner to use the raw data in the bin |
| 14:25:10 | PatLabor221 | since they are just one track |
| 14:25:14 | bzdoug | ah |
| 14:26:01 | PatLabor221 | I am sorry we didn't have them in ISO format |
| 14:26:17 | captain_proton | PatLabor221: WARNING - IF YOU UPLOAD WAREZ YOUR IP WILL BE BANNED. |
| 14:26:33 | PatLabor221 | to where |
| 14:26:38 | bzdoug | your FTP server |
| 14:26:44 | PatLabor221 | realy |
| 14:26:46 | bzdoug | yup |
| 14:26:52 | PatLabor221 | well techinclay I didn't upload them |
| 14:26:54 | bzdoug | snickers |
| 14:27:06 | bzdoug | oh? you ripped them right on the ftp server? |
| 14:27:08 | PatLabor221 | I have the thing mounted as a drive |
| 14:27:16 | PatLabor221 | no I just copied them |
| 14:27:18 | captain_proton | so you sideloaded them |
| 14:27:29 | PatLabor221 | the transfer isn't on the logs |
| 14:27:34 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 14:27:39 | PatLabor221 | and you want to know what's realy funny |
| 14:27:46 | PatLabor221 | I got them from our IS dept. |
| 14:27:47 | bzdoug | HAHHAHA, er |
| 14:27:52 | bzdoug | LOL |
| 14:28:07 | PatLabor221 | you have them all? |
| 14:28:13 | bzdoug | I do |
| 14:28:26 | PatLabor221 | cap? |
| 14:28:26 | captain_proton | oof, huge-ass zips take forever |
| 14:28:32 | captain_proton | PatLabor221: workin' on the last 1 |
| 14:28:36 | PatLabor221 | ok |
| 14:28:43 | PatLabor221 | then I will leave them there till you finish |
| 14:29:12 | PatLabor221 | I don't know how the linux vesion of UT is installed or works |
| 14:29:34 | bzdoug | theres a .sh file on the 3rd cd |
| 14:30:31 | PatLabor221 | is that what is needed? |
| 14:30:44 | bzdoug | thats what starts the install |
| 14:31:11 | PatLabor221 | ahhh |
| 14:31:26 | bzdoug | its a script thingy I think |
| 14:32:27 | bzdoug | (beep) |
| 14:43:53 | chsh[] | a script thingy? |
| 14:44:06 | bzdoug | whats a .sh then? |
| 14:44:26 | captain_proton | its a script thingy |
| 14:44:32 | chsh[] | lol |
| 14:44:47 | bzdoug | chsh[]: its a script thingy |
| 14:44:48 | chsh[] | script thingy |
| 14:44:54 | bzdoug | yea |
| 14:45:00 | chsh[] | script is not the word I'm objecting to |
| 14:45:06 | bzdoug | like a program thingy, but not as big |
| 14:45:09 | chsh[] | lol |
| 14:45:13 | bzdoug | LOL |
| 14:45:18 | captain_proton | wanders off to class |
| 14:45:20 | chsh[] | actually, script thingies CAN be way bigger than program thingies |
| 14:45:29 | bzdoug | yea yea |
| 14:45:30 | chsh[] | if they're poorly written script thingies |
| 14:45:33 | bzdoug | in rare cases |
| 14:45:36 | chsh[] | like the ones captain_proton writes |
| 14:45:39 | chsh[] | :) |
| 14:46:10 | bzdoug | haha |
| 14:46:48 | PatLabor221 | text is larger then compiled code in most cases. |
| 14:47:04 | bzdoug | shrugs |
| 14:47:11 | bzdoug | .bat files rule! |
| 14:47:13 | bzdoug | ducks |
| 14:47:14 | chsh[] | ugh |
| 14:47:20 | chsh[] | windows automation is pathetic |
| 14:48:27 | PatLabor221 | that it is |
| 14:48:38 | PatLabor221 | dougs bat files are very limited |
| 14:48:48 | chsh[] | haha |
| 14:48:52 | bzdoug | yea yea, I was kidding |
| 14:48:53 | PatLabor221 | you can do more with VBA |
| 14:48:59 | bzdoug | KBA? |
| 14:49:00 | chsh[] | VBA is still bad |
| 14:49:03 | bzdoug | VBA> |
| 14:49:04 | PatLabor221 | bit then you have to deal with VB |
| 14:49:04 | bzdoug | ? |
| 14:49:08 | bzdoug | oh |
| 14:49:10 | chsh[] | it's a very very bad way of doing things |
| 14:49:16 | PatLabor221 | that it is |
| 14:49:32 | chsh[] | vba as the OS scripting language and OE combined are what has caused about 90% of the VBS viruses to get such large numbers of infected hosts |
| 14:49:34 | PatLabor221 | I usualy just make an app that automates stuff :) |
| 14:49:54 | chsh[] | I just usually use linux in cases where automation is needed |
| 14:49:54 | PatLabor221 | yeah I have the VB interpreter disabled |
| 14:50:09 | chsh[] | chances are you're talking about a server |
| 14:51:37 | PatLabor221 | well we need to automate the creation of a lot of liscense files usualy, and there isn't a encoder on linux |
| 14:55:24 | PatLabor221 | I was able to do some realy coold file renaming stuff with BZFlag's help on linux |
| 14:55:37 | PatLabor221 | trying it on win would have been stupid |
| 14:56:08 | bzdoug | hah, ut2k3 has some neat extras |
| 14:56:20 | bzdoug | like the modeler |
| 14:56:32 | bzdoug | I can put my face on a player |
| 14:56:37 | PatLabor221 | miya personal leanring editon |
| 14:56:38 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 14:56:42 | bzdoug | no |
| 14:56:44 | bzdoug | Upaint |
| 14:56:55 | bzdoug | what does miya do? |
| 14:57:02 | PatLabor221 | it's the modeler |
| 14:57:09 | PatLabor221 | upaint is a skinner |
| 14:57:13 | bzdoug | oh |
| 14:57:19 | bzdoug | then I like the skinner |
| 14:57:24 | bzdoug | I want it in bzflag |
| 14:57:26 | bzdoug | :) |
| 14:57:39 | PatLabor221 | for what? |
| 14:57:47 | bzdoug | skinning tanks |
| 14:58:02 | bzdoug | hmm, does the skin download ot other peoples computers? |
| 14:58:04 | bzdoug | when I play? |
| 14:58:05 | PatLabor221 | you mean allowing people to cheat? |
| 14:58:09 | PatLabor221 | they install it |
| 14:58:13 | bzdoug | oh |
| 14:58:28 | bzdoug | then if I have my own skin, it wont show up on there computer? |
| 14:58:32 | PatLabor221 | you can have a set of server speficied content that everyone gets |
| 14:58:35 | PatLabor221 | nope |
| 14:58:39 | bzdoug | ? |
| 14:58:42 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 14:58:42 | PatLabor221 | becasue you could make an invisible skin |
| 14:58:48 | bzdoug | oh |
| 14:58:50 | PatLabor221 | I think it will send the face tho |
| 14:58:57 | bzdoug | really? good |
| 14:59:06 | bzdoug | finds a barney face to stick on it |
| 14:59:10 | bzdoug | snickers |
| 14:59:22 | PatLabor221 | you will get shot a lot |
| 14:59:32 | PatLabor221 | well more then normal |
| 14:59:36 | bzdoug | hahah |
| 15:00:08 | bzdoug | grins |
| 15:00:44 | PatLabor221 | in 1.8 you can skin your tank |
| 15:00:53 | PatLabor221 | the texture is refrenced in the bzg file |
| 15:00:56 | bzdoug | yea, but will it download to other tanks? |
| 15:01:09 | PatLabor221 | nope |
| 15:01:11 | bzdoug | you CAN turn off transparentcy |
| 15:01:44 | PatLabor221 | but then what about legitimate skins that want to use transpernacy |
| 15:01:58 | Cell_prog_insect | whats miya? |
| 15:02:00 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 15:02:04 | PatLabor221 | a modeler |
| 15:02:06 | bzdoug | Cell_prog_insect: modeler for ut2k3 |
| 15:02:15 | PatLabor221 | no it's a general modeler |
| 15:02:20 | PatLabor221 | it's not specifly for UT |
| 15:02:21 | Cell_prog_insect | ut2k3? |
| 15:02:28 | PatLabor221 | they just have a plugin for it |
| 15:02:37 | PatLabor221 | and included the demo in the package |
| 15:02:43 | PatLabor221 | it's like 3dsmax |
| 15:02:43 | Cell_prog_insect | upaint? |
| 15:02:53 | PatLabor221 | a skin editor for unreal models |
| 15:02:54 | Cell_prog_insect | !! |
| 15:03:04 | Cell_prog_insect | can i get it |
| 15:03:08 | bzdoug | yup |
| 15:03:14 | bzdoug | ask PatLabor221 about his backup |
| 15:03:16 | PatLabor221 | miya is a direct competitor to max |
| 15:03:27 | Cell_prog_insect | really, u mean not maya |
| 15:03:29 | PatLabor221 | the learning editon will only save to it's own format |
| 15:03:38 | PatLabor221 | yeah soory |
| 15:03:45 | Cell_prog_insect | maya |
| 15:03:48 | bzdoug | cool! |
| 15:03:54 | PatLabor221 | it dosn't have exporters |
| 15:03:54 | PatLabor221 | except for UT |
| 15:03:56 | bzdoug | I just stuck a face on it |
| 15:04:37 | Cell_prog_insect | PatLabor221:miya == maya ? true : false |
| 15:04:49 | bzdoug | maybe |
| 15:04:52 | PatLabor221 | the personal learning edition has allways been free I think. |
| 15:04:52 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 15:04:52 | PatLabor221 | I just can't type |
| 15:04:53 | bzdoug | snickers |
| 15:04:59 | PatLabor221 | it's nothing new |
| 15:05:07 | PatLabor221 | same old stuff that's been out for a year |
| 15:05:21 | Cell_prog_insect | but i still dont know if miya == maya ??? |
| 15:05:33 | bzdoug | Cell_prog_insect: YES! |
| 15:05:41 | PatLabor221 | YES IT DOES |
| 15:05:42 | Cell_prog_insect | k, then i have it already |
| 15:05:51 | Cell_prog_insect | and i dont like it |
| 15:06:00 | PatLabor221 | shit think, it's a misype |
| 15:06:02 | PatLabor221 | I am not a big maya fan |
| 15:06:09 | PatLabor221 | I prefer lightwave. |
| 15:06:52 | Cell_prog_insect | i prefer 3d studio, cause im so familiar withit now, sdk + script + everything |
| 15:07:06 | PatLabor221 | the interface blows goats tho |
| 15:07:16 | PatLabor221 | cap: you done with that last CD? |
| 15:07:18 | Cell_prog_insect | and its more a microsoft style editor, maya is for unix ppl |
| 15:07:42 | Cell_prog_insect | same as for netscape and ie |
| 15:07:49 | PatLabor221 | but it's not a standard MS interface |
| 15:08:16 | Cell_prog_insect | i cannot get used to netscape after i used iwe for a long time, its piece of shit in my eyes |
| 15:08:52 | Cell_prog_insect | yes but it reminds me on word |
| 15:09:40 | bzdoug | (beep) |
| 15:09:44 | bzdoug | (drums) |
| 15:10:13 | Cell_prog_insect | why fort the hell do i have to press the spacebar and realese it immidiately to change views in maya but hold it pressed to get the pop up menu, thats just shit |
| 15:11:39 | Cell_prog_insect | if i do not realease fast enough i get the popup menu, insted of vie change, made me mad |
| 15:14:13 | Cell_prog_insect | hmm its true, vc7 is really buggy |
| 15:17:16 | Cell_prog_insect | hmm i thing even though euler is evil, i will need it |
| 15:18:30 | PatLabor221 | .net is very buggy |
| 15:18:30 | PatLabor221 | and SLOOOOOWWWWW |
| 15:20:08 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, and the ui does not function correct |
| 15:20:34 | Cell_prog_insect | but i got used to it somehow now, i hope ms will fix that soon |
| 15:21:01 | PatLabor221 | seems to me like they didn't test it well |
| 15:21:19 | Cell_prog_insect | the ui, they sure did not |
| 15:22:38 | PatLabor221 | nor the compiler |
| 15:22:41 | PatLabor221 | we can crash it |
| 15:23:31 | Cell_prog_insect | hmm, somehow my Transform class has some errors or im just doing wrong transformations, because up vector gets zero sometimes |
| 15:24:38 | Cell_prog_insect | strange |
| 15:37:49 | Cell_prog_insect | could someone experienced or familiar with 3d math look or test my 3d Math classes(Point3D,Vector3D,Quaternion and Transform(3x4Matrix))? |
| 15:41:20 | PatLabor221 | I can send you mine if you want |
| 15:41:29 | PatLabor221 | it dosn't have quats tho |
| 15:41:59 | PatLabor221 | and what's the difrence between a point and a vector? |
| 15:42:06 | Cell_prog_insect | big diff |
| 15:42:14 | PatLabor221 | in how they are used yes |
| 15:42:20 | PatLabor221 | but not in how they are stored |
| 15:42:32 | Cell_prog_insect | Point + Point makes no sense |
| 15:42:38 | PatLabor221 | sure it does |
| 15:42:40 | Cell_prog_insect | Point - Point = Vector |
| 15:42:57 | PatLabor221 | it's just usage |
| 15:42:57 | Cell_prog_insect | Point +(-) Vector = Point |
| 15:43:10 | Cell_prog_insect | no its proper vector math |
| 15:43:14 | PatLabor221 | takes more work to make them seperate classes |
| 15:43:24 | PatLabor221 | math is a tool not a religon |
| 15:43:26 | Cell_prog_insect | no code gets much cleaner |
| 15:43:46 | Cell_prog_insect | believe me its important |
| 15:43:46 | PatLabor221 | I don't see how |
| 15:44:04 | PatLabor221 | ok mr. string compare. |
| 15:45:06 | Cell_prog_insect | for example a transform * vector != transform * point , even though point.x=vector.x, same for y and z |
| 15:45:21 | Cell_prog_insect | and |
| 15:46:16 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 15:46:26 | Cell_prog_insect | Point.Translate() (method ok), Vector.Translate( ) (no sense in mathematical sense) |
| 15:46:40 | PatLabor221 | that's why you have 2 transform masks |
| 15:46:51 | Cell_prog_insect | no |
| 15:46:51 | PatLabor221 | it's just a difrnet way of doing it that's all |
| 15:47:05 | captain_proton | PatLabor221: no i'm not, still about 2 hrs left |
| 15:47:28 | PatLabor221 | cell: I'm not saing you are wrong, just that there are more then one way to do it |
| 15:47:51 | Cell_prog_insect | k, but mathe matically there is only one way |
| 15:48:09 | PatLabor221 | not realy |
| 15:48:10 | Cell_prog_insect | otherwise if u dont pay attention u can get wron, very fast |
| 15:48:14 | PatLabor221 | there are some ways that just don't make sense for common usage |
| 15:48:31 | PatLabor221 | well that's true no mater what you are doing |
| 15:49:08 | Cell_prog_insect | because if everything is a vector, u couls forget that a operationthat yelded a vector is a Point in reality, and u transform it bad |
| 15:49:27 | Cell_prog_insect | that could not happen to me |
| 15:49:33 | PatLabor221 | we have a single Point type |
| 15:49:39 | PatLabor221 | and we put vectors in it |
| 15:49:42 | Cell_prog_insect | and not to someone who will use my classes |
| 15:49:53 | m0nkey_b0y | mornin |
| 15:49:54 | PatLabor221 | and we have a matrix type as well |
| 15:50:00 | Cell_prog_insect | k |
| 15:50:05 | PatLabor221 | we have funcs that will add and subtract them |
| 15:50:10 | PatLabor221 | mull and div them |
| 15:50:17 | PatLabor221 | cross and dot them |
| 15:50:29 | PatLabor221 | and the matrix has a transform pos and transform norm |
| 15:50:43 | PatLabor221 | so it all works |
| 15:50:59 | Cell_prog_insect | of course |
| 15:51:13 | Cell_prog_insect | but i love to be precise on mathemathics |
| 15:51:16 | Cell_prog_insect | scalar * Point (ok), Point * scalar (wrong) |
| 15:51:28 | PatLabor221 | yes and you will have more interfaces |
| 15:51:38 | Cell_prog_insect | no just one more |
| 15:51:58 | Cell_prog_insect | Vector3D and Point3D instead of only Vecto3D |
| 15:52:14 | Cell_prog_insect | but proper math |
| 15:52:19 | PatLabor221 | If I was doing all over again I'd derive vector from point. |
| 15:52:25 | Cell_prog_insect | thats worth it in my eyes |
| 15:53:32 | Cell_prog_insect | if u do proper algebra, in u code u will never need to cast a point into a vector or vice versa |
| 15:54:04 | Cell_prog_insect | of coz i have implemented a cast operator, but did not need it |
| 15:55:01 | PatLabor221 | if they are all the same then you don't have to cast ether :) |
| 15:56:29 | Cell_prog_insect | they are 50% same 50% different |
| 15:56:59 | PatLabor221 | only in your definition |
| 15:57:00 | Cell_prog_insect | i show u my classes, wait i copy them to the web, then u can see |
| 15:57:07 | PatLabor221 | they are still both 3 floats |
| 15:57:17 | Cell_prog_insect | there is no croos or scalar product vor points defined |
| 15:57:27 | Cell_prog_insect | it makes no sense |
| 15:57:30 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 15:57:37 | PatLabor221 | but still they all operate on 3 floats |
| 15:57:49 | PatLabor221 | for you it makes no sense |
| 15:57:57 | Cell_prog_insect | cause point is just a small little point where a vector is a oriented edge |
| 15:58:25 | PatLabor221 | a point could be thought of as a vector from the origin |
| 15:58:33 | PatLabor221 | we have used them as that on ocasion |
| 15:58:42 | PatLabor221 | like for spherical maping |
| 15:58:51 | PatLabor221 | and for angluar deviation from a plane |
| 15:59:04 | PatLabor221 | in those cases we do dot products on points |
| 15:59:17 | Cell_prog_insect | u must not think of a point as beeing a vector(line) from origin to the point, but just beeing a point no line |
| 15:59:31 | PatLabor221 | why? |
| 15:59:40 | Cell_prog_insect | but then u do wrong math |
| 15:59:46 | PatLabor221 | no |
| 16:00:00 | PatLabor221 | in your case I would have to subtracrt the point from the origin |
| 16:00:03 | PatLabor221 | to do what I want |
| 16:00:04 | Cell_prog_insect | because a point x point is then impossible to imagine |
| 16:00:23 | PatLabor221 | you need to think in a larger scope |
| 16:00:25 | Cell_prog_insect | PatLabor221:yes u have to substract, yes u must |
| 16:00:29 | Cell_prog_insect | correct |
| 16:00:35 | PatLabor221 | why it's flipin 0 |
| 16:00:54 | PatLabor221 | why do you MAKE me do an operation that won't change the numbers at ll |
| 16:01:07 | PatLabor221 | just change the name |
| 16:01:08 | PatLabor221 | it's all arbitrarly |
| 16:01:24 | PatLabor221 | it does not change the base operations that happen on the numbers |
| 16:01:27 | PatLabor221 | it's just semantics |
| 16:01:35 | Cell_prog_insect | because it gives u so much mathematical safty u would miss otherwise |
| 16:01:56 | PatLabor221 | in my case it would be too slow |
| 16:02:08 | Cell_prog_insect | it really is just a question of ur taste at last |
| 16:02:15 | PatLabor221 | I cant afford 3 subs per vertex |
| 16:02:25 | PatLabor221 | when I have to do 1.5 million of them |
| 16:02:35 | Cell_prog_insect | k :) u are right |
| 16:02:50 | PatLabor221 | like I said it's just how you chose to do it |
| 16:03:24 | PatLabor221 | we do a lot of projections and stuff where we will do things like that |
| 16:03:31 | PatLabor221 | or we split trnasofrmations |
| 16:03:35 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, but i am not able to imagine to get rid of the benefits of proper math, clarity |
| 16:03:57 | PatLabor221 | wait till you get a real job and have to work with other programers |
| 16:04:06 | Cell_prog_insect | i used vectors only earlier and was not satisfied |
| 16:04:31 | Cell_prog_insect | not if i will be the boss |
| 16:04:37 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 16:04:59 | blair | you still gotta work with other coders... |
| 16:05:00 | PatLabor221 | but if you still have to work with them |
| 16:05:00 | PatLabor221 | yeah |
| 16:05:03 | PatLabor221 | you can't be too strict |
| 16:05:07 | PatLabor221 | or tehy will quit |
| 16:05:30 | PatLabor221 | the real world is very difrent from single person student projects |
| 16:06:12 | Cell_prog_insect | i know, but c# has lots of overhea, because its strict on mayn things, so i friendly decree to that habit |
| 16:06:26 | PatLabor221 | and in the end, it has nothing to do with how the code looks, it's all about features and release dates. |
| 16:06:26 | PatLabor221 | cus that's what makes the money. |
| 16:06:26 | PatLabor221 | good code is secondary |
| 16:06:29 | PatLabor221 | hence it's slowness |
| 16:06:39 | Cell_prog_insect | i know |
| 16:07:11 | Cell_prog_insect | but more readable, clearlier code could also save dev time and hence money |
| 16:07:21 | Cell_prog_insect | u can optimize later |
| 16:07:23 | PatLabor221 | in the long run yes |
| 16:07:24 | blair | c#? why use c#? stay away from ms. |
| 16:07:36 | PatLabor221 | but when you have a customer waitng for someting |
| 16:07:36 | Cell_prog_insect | no i love ms |
| 16:07:41 | PatLabor221 | and he wants it NOW |
| 16:07:46 | PatLabor221 | you just bust some stuff out. |
| 16:07:57 | Cell_prog_insect | imagine borland java editor, its a piece of shit compared to vc |
| 16:08:01 | PatLabor221 | and no you can't optimise later |
| 16:08:37 | PatLabor221 | it has to be optimised when you release |
| 16:08:37 | PatLabor221 | people hate patches. |
| 16:08:47 | Cell_prog_insect | k, but i have to calculate that prior to setting a deadline |
| 16:09:01 | PatLabor221 | that's managements job |
| 16:09:10 | PatLabor221 | you don't set the deadline |
| 16:09:12 | Cell_prog_insect | yes so they have |
| 16:09:13 | PatLabor221 | others do |
| 16:09:34 | Cell_prog_insect | but if im the boss(and hopefully i will be) then i do :) |
| 16:09:39 | PatLabor221 | you make it work by then |
| 16:10:23 | PatLabor221 | most companys where the boss has no production experience fail quickly |
| 16:10:58 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, but i would only found a company when i had a deadly idea |
| 16:11:09 | PatLabor221 | and lots of money |
| 16:11:28 | Cell_prog_insect | no venture capital, never play games with ur own money |
| 16:11:47 | PatLabor221 | yed |
| 16:11:47 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 16:11:52 | PatLabor221 | but then you have to deal with them |
| 16:11:57 | PatLabor221 | and trust me |
| 16:11:58 | Cell_prog_insect | so if the compony gets down, u lose nothing then repute |
| 16:12:07 | PatLabor221 | they NEVER understand what you are trying to do |
| 16:12:16 | Cell_prog_insect | so they wont get me |
| 16:12:27 | Cell_prog_insect | u have to take it easy |
| 16:12:36 | PatLabor221 | they just care about the profits usualy |
| 16:12:38 | Cell_prog_insect | and dont give up |
| 16:12:48 | Cell_prog_insect | u do too |
| 16:12:48 | PatLabor221 | wellt that's the thing |
| 16:12:48 | PatLabor221 | they want to see results |
| 16:13:11 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 16:13:26 | Cell_prog_insect | as i said u need a convincing idea/theorie some thing that sticks them onto ur side |
| 16:13:28 | PatLabor221 | but you have a more intamte knowledge of where the project is |
| 16:13:33 | PatLabor221 | and even if it dosn't look good you know where it is |
| 16:13:43 | Cell_prog_insect | thats true |
| 16:13:45 | PatLabor221 | they need to SEE it |
| 16:13:53 | PatLabor221 | yes you have to con them into giving you money |
| 16:14:02 | PatLabor221 | that's what it comes down to |
| 16:14:06 | PatLabor221 | and thats how they see it |
| 16:14:07 | Cell_prog_insect | yes |
| 16:14:31 | PatLabor221 | soo you have to have prety things to make them not worry untill your done |
| 16:14:32 | Cell_prog_insect | and u need to be master or something like that |
| 16:14:38 | Cell_prog_insect | good education |
| 16:14:57 | PatLabor221 | you need someone in "gulp" marketing. |
| 16:15:02 | Cell_prog_insect | no univerity, then they will ignore u |
| 16:15:11 | PatLabor221 | actualy they don't care |
| 16:15:21 | PatLabor221 | what they want is results and a good idea |
| 16:15:22 | Cell_prog_insect | not i germany |
| 16:15:50 | PatLabor221 | remember they arn't giveing YOU money, they are giving your company money |
| 16:16:08 | Cell_prog_insect | mostly the ppl with really good ideas are from univerity anyways, or just big aitodidacts |
| 16:16:41 | Cell_prog_insect | i now, but company money, and u are the boos, and the boss is paid well normally |
| 16:17:01 | PatLabor221 | depends on the situation |
| 16:17:06 | Cell_prog_insect | sure |
| 16:17:19 | PatLabor221 | I have seen owners take low pay to see a project finished |
| 16:17:34 | PatLabor221 | not everyone is greedy |
| 16:17:40 | Cell_prog_insect | yes thats common,but the big idea is the main point |
| 16:17:54 | PatLabor221 | yes greed drives all comerce |
| 16:17:58 | Cell_prog_insect | im not greedy too |
| 16:18:18 | PatLabor221 | yet you want to be the boss |
| 16:18:28 | Cell_prog_insect | looked wallstreet |
| 16:18:36 | Cell_prog_insect | the movie with m d |
| 16:18:39 | PatLabor221 | den of greed |
| 16:18:44 | PatLabor221 | never saw it |
| 16:18:47 | PatLabor221 | been there |
| 16:18:53 | PatLabor221 | but never seent he movie |
| 16:19:16 | Cell_prog_insect | wallstreet with michael douglas and charlie sheen |
| 16:19:36 | Cell_prog_insect | almost everyone saw that movie |
| 16:19:40 | bzdoug | lol |
| 16:19:52 | PatLabor221 | hate to tell you but movies are not indicitve of the real world |
| 16:20:04 | Cell_prog_insect | i know |
| 16:20:34 | Cell_prog_insect | i dont like kino, because the holliwood/kino films are all shit |
| 16:20:46 | PatLabor221 | kino? |
| 16:21:02 | Cell_prog_insect | kino = cinema |
| 16:21:10 | PatLabor221 | ahhh |
| 16:21:34 | Cell_prog_insect | ibot x en de cinema |
| 16:21:38 | | Cell_prog_insect: Kino |
| 16:22:01 | bzdoug | ah |
| 16:22:08 | bzdoug | I learned a german word! |
| 16:22:14 | Cell_prog_insect | :) |
| 16:22:29 | bzdoug | now I go to germany and all I know is kino |
| 16:22:41 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, then u are lost |
| 16:22:47 | bzdoug | heh |
| 16:23:18 | sussudio | bitte tote much, ich bin from kentucky |
| 16:23:34 | bzdoug | glares at sussudio |
| 16:23:55 | Cell_prog_insect | i mean if u pronouce it english it would be the same as if u dont know any german word, cause nobody would understand u |
| 16:24:29 | bzdoug | hehe |
| 16:24:33 | bzdoug | I am learing german... |
| 16:24:41 | bzdoug | in school |
| 16:24:44 | | the cow that went oink |
| 16:24:44 | bzdoug | ibot sussudio? |
| 16:25:55 | | the cow that went oink |
| 16:25:55 | bzdoug | ibot sussudioo |
| 16:26:03 | sussudio | get a life you fucking loser |
| 16:26:18 | bzdoug | grins |
| 16:28:19 | PatLabor221 | ahh the angry man returns |
| 16:47:44 | m0nkey_b0y | hi room |
| 16:47:48 | m0nkey_b0y | heh |
| 16:47:59 | | No, damit!!! |
| 16:47:59 | bzdoug | ibot rejoice |
| 16:48:04 | bzdoug | coughs |
| 16:48:15 | m0nkey_b0y | happy friday to all |
| 16:48:21 | bzdoug | hah |
| 16:48:24 | bzdoug | is so happy |
| 16:48:34 | m0nkey_b0y | did you get into trouble doug? |
| 16:48:39 | bzdoug | umm |
| 16:48:40 | bzdoug | no |
| 16:49:13 | m0nkey_b0y | what happened to bzbot? |
| 16:49:31 | m0nkey_b0y | oh |
| 16:49:33 | bzdoug | It makes good sense that flies can fly |
| 16:49:33 | bzdoug | and bug can bug you, for sure |
| 16:49:33 | bzdoug | but the waste from a cow |
| 16:49:33 | bzdoug | is produced by a cow |
| 16:49:33 | bzdoug | so how come they call is MANure? |
| 16:49:33 | Cell_prog_insect | my algebra classes: http://home.in.tum.de/~edelstei/algebra.htm |
| 16:51:44 | sussudio | http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=992945 |
| 16:51:52 | sussudio | this is what doug drinks, that's why he talks crap all the time |
| 16:53:27 | m0nkey_b0y | ouch |
| 16:53:42 | m0nkey_b0y | i drink beer myself |
| 16:53:56 | bzdoug | ? |
| 16:55:15 | PatLabor221 | poo tea |
| 16:55:18 | sussudio | doug isnt allowed to drink beer until he's at least 13 |
| 16:55:27 | Terminator | hi all |
| 16:55:28 | bzdoug | HI Terminator! |
| 16:55:42 | | the cow that went oink |
| 16:55:42 | bzdoug | ibot sussudioo? |
| 16:55:48 | Terminator | hehe |
| 16:56:33 | Terminator | what is the legal age for drinking on da U.S.A. |
| 16:56:42 | Terminator | *in |
| 16:56:45 | PatLabor221 | 21 most places |
| 16:57:25 | m0nkey_b0y | doug are you very young? |
| 16:57:41 | bzdoug | no |
| 16:57:46 | bzdoug | 15 |
| 16:58:31 | Terminator | the legal age for drinking is 18 in england |
| 16:59:20 | strayer | hi :) |
| 16:59:31 | Terminator | hi there |
| 16:59:39 | m0nkey_b0y | hola |
| 17:01:53 | Terminator | m0nkey_b0y how can u be a boy |
| 17:02:01 | Terminator | ur to old to be a boy |
| 17:02:03 | Terminator | hehe |
| 17:02:10 | Terminator | jk |
| 17:04:49 | m0nkey_b0y | hey |
| 17:04:58 | m0nkey_b0y | i got it from a movie! |
| 17:05:31 | strayer | was the figure old? |
| 17:05:38 | m0nkey_b0y | ja |
| 17:05:49 | m0nkey_b0y | an apprentice to a mad scientist... |
| 17:05:53 | m0nkey_b0y | which is what i am |
| 17:06:07 | strayer | holla.... |
| 17:06:14 | m0nkey_b0y | holla? |
| 17:06:25 | m0nkey_b0y | thats a song from fabulous |
| 17:06:36 | strayer | really? |
| 17:06:46 | strayer | dunno.... |
| 17:06:46 | m0nkey_b0y | holla back... |
| 17:06:48 | m0nkey_b0y | yup |
| 17:06:56 | m0nkey_b0y | get with the times man :) |
| 17:07:26 | strayer | hehe... |
| 17:09:37 | strayer | m0nkey_b0y: R U still playing? |
| 17:10:17 | m0nkey_b0y | no i am doing some work :) |
| 17:10:47 | strayer | oh...someone in the bzworld with an real life?...wow |
| 17:11:01 | m0nkey_b0y | heh |
| 17:11:20 | strayer | =) |
| 17:11:32 | m0nkey_b0y | i am throwing a party tonight...trying to finish up some stuff |
| 17:11:36 | m0nkey_b0y | woohoo |
| 17:12:02 | lurgyman | ribbit |
| 17:12:07 | bzdoug | moo |
| 17:12:15 | m0nkey_b0y | ook |
| 17:12:17 | chsh[] | moo? |
| 17:12:31 | bzdoug | oink |
| 17:12:37 | m0nkey_b0y | woof |
| 17:12:45 | bzdoug | meow |
| 17:12:58 | m0nkey_b0y | where is lynx..we need a kittie |
| 17:22:17 | Terminator | yes i finished my h/w |
| 17:22:26 | Terminator | now h/w for the weekend |
| 17:22:45 | Terminator | and i can go ice skating 2morrow after my rugby match |
| 17:25:54 | m0nkey_b0y | i am done :) |
| 17:26:03 | m0nkey_b0y | have a good weekend all! |
| 17:33:00 | rooter | hello |
| 17:33:52 | Cell_prog_insect | can someone tell me how the rotation matrix will look like if u have a axis (0.8778956,0.478852123,0), already normalized, and rot angle = 0.001 in radians. plz? |
| 17:34:03 | rooter | um, hello again |
| 17:34:10 | Cell_prog_insect | hello |
| 17:34:25 | bzdoug | greetings |
| 17:34:54 | rooter | i'm using the web IRC client... it's a little wierd |
| 17:35:45 | bzdoug | yes |
| 17:36:23 | Terminator | yup |
| 17:36:42 | rooter | Does anyone know where I can find the world file documentation? |
| 17:36:50 | Terminator | nope not me |
| 17:36:56 | Terminator | maybe doug |
| 17:37:07 | Terminator | he knows loads of useless info |
| 17:37:09 | Terminator | lol |
| 17:37:11 | Terminator | jk |
| 17:37:49 | Cell_prog_insect | i think mr apahthcream had that on his web site, but im not sure |
| 17:37:56 | rooter | i've run across it before but ever since the new site went up I can't find it |
| 17:38:19 | Terminator | u can get 1.7f7 from Mr. Apathy Cream's website |
| 17:38:31 | Terminator | i got it |
| 17:38:41 | Terminator | its the latest version u can get |
| 17:38:54 | Terminator | it is still a little experimental though |
| 17:39:16 | Terminator | is away |
| 17:40:53 | rooter | i don't see it on mr Apathy Cream's site |
| 17:40:56 | rooter | http://www.chesco.com/~dbrosius/BZFlag/BZFlag.html |
| 17:41:31 | Amun-Ra | hello |
| 17:41:39 | rooter | hi |
| 17:41:59 | Amun-Ra | damn |
| 17:42:19 | Amun-Ra | i haven't even got 1.7e4 |
| 17:42:41 | bzdoug | get 1.7 |
| 17:45:35 | lurgyman | ribbit |
| 17:46:15 | bzdoug | moo |
| 17:46:29 | lurgyman | hoaaw |
| 17:46:38 | bzdoug | WOOF! |
| 17:46:54 | lurgyman | splat |
| 17:47:40 | bzdoug | bark |
| 17:54:56 | rooter | oooEEEoooEEEoooo < joining in the bordom |
| 17:55:27 | bzdoug | is watching nasa TV |
| 18:17:48 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 18:17:54 | bzdoug | I want a rail gun |
| 18:18:40 | PatLabor221 | why you only get a couple of shots |
| 18:18:48 | PatLabor221 | then you ahve to replace the rails |
| 18:18:56 | bzdoug | heh, so? |
| 18:19:09 | PatLabor221 | coil guns have a longer lifespan |
| 18:19:21 | bzdoug | coil? |
| 18:19:26 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 18:19:31 | bzdoug | whats dat? |
| 18:19:33 | PatLabor221 | like a magenetic coil |
| 18:19:38 | bzdoug | oh |
| 18:19:43 | PatLabor221 | put a bunch of those in a row |
| 18:19:48 | bzdoug | and the shot just gets pushed out? |
| 18:19:55 | PatLabor221 | and a feric shell |
| 18:20:00 | PatLabor221 | then fire them off in series |
| 18:20:04 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 18:20:20 | PatLabor221 | AKA magnetic liniar accellerator |
| 18:20:27 | bzdoug | ah |
| 18:20:44 | PatLabor221 | no arcing or sliding of metal on metal like railguns do |
| 18:20:48 | bzdoug | hm |
| 18:21:01 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 18:21:25 | PatLabor221 | the progresion of the coil timing can be geometric |
| 18:21:32 | PatLabor221 | so it can go very fast |
| 18:21:39 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 18:22:04 | PatLabor221 | and the power levels are more managable |
| 18:36:00 | captain_proton | timing is a bitch with coils though |
| 18:36:09 | bzdoug | eh? |
| 18:36:20 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 18:36:32 | PatLabor221 | it requires the use of a compuer |
| 18:36:34 | captain_proton | because you can't fire off a coil until the projectile is halfway across it |
| 18:36:45 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 18:36:48 | PatLabor221 | yes or it will slow down |
| 18:37:01 | captain_proton | and if you fire too late you're wasting power |
| 18:37:24 | PatLabor221 | I didn't say it was easyer |
| 18:37:37 | PatLabor221 | just didn't burn out the rails |
| 18:38:01 | PatLabor221 | on railguns the rails basicly get arcweleded every shot |
| 18:38:13 | bzdoug | not if you use something else |
| 18:38:24 | PatLabor221 | what would you use? |
| 18:38:29 | PatLabor221 | it's gota conduct |
| 18:38:35 | bzdoug | grafite |
| 18:38:46 | PatLabor221 | yes that would work |
| 18:38:52 | bzdoug | other people used it |
| 18:38:52 | captain_proton | graphite has way too high a resistance |
| 18:38:54 | PatLabor221 | but still there is the sliding |
| 18:39:00 | bzdoug | they say its does not where out the rails |
| 18:39:03 | captain_proton | it gets VERY hot |
| 18:39:08 | bzdoug | yea |
| 18:39:12 | bzdoug | I seen teh videos |
| 18:39:19 | captain_proton | as in it will get red hot and explode |
| 18:39:24 | bzdoug | haha |
| 18:39:35 | bzdoug | cool |
| 18:39:39 | bzdoug | is away: busy |
| 18:39:46 | captain_proton | and flying shards of hot graphite hurt a lot |
| 18:41:21 | PatLabor221 | unless it's on a tank |
| 18:42:07 | captain_proton | bageltime |
| 18:43:33 | Cell_prog_insect | quess what: my matrix multiplication was wrong, i knew i should not replace it with a forforloop |
| 18:45:39 | Cell_prog_insect | set a little index bad and shit happens |
| 18:47:11 | jzaun | captain_proton: hows BZEE? |
| 18:47:43 | captain_proton | jzaun: ok, been wrestling with cell renderer |
| 18:47:45 | captain_proton | s |
| 18:48:18 | jzaun | captain_proton: Can blocks/pryamids/etc. be modified? |
| 18:49:25 | captain_proton | not yet |
| 18:49:33 | captain_proton | in fact pyramids/etc don't exist yet ;) |
| 18:50:07 | jzaun | captain_proton: What about cylinders cons and ramps :-) |
| 18:50:12 | jzaun | cones* |
| 18:50:17 | captain_proton | haha |
| 18:50:31 | jzaun | spheres would be nice too |
| 18:50:49 | captain_proton | here: you write the object classes for them and i'll do it ;) |
| 18:51:17 | jzaun | fot BZEE or BZF? |
| 18:51:32 | captain_proton | bzee |
| 18:51:51 | captain_proton | if its gonna work in 1.7 they'd have to be higher-level objects |
| 18:52:16 | captain_proton | ie specify cylendar with the number of segments (boxes) and have it generate the cylendar procedurally |
| 18:52:40 | jzaun | is the bzee code in cvs? |
| 18:52:42 | PatLabor221 | gotta love hardcoded prims |
| 18:53:10 | captain_proton | jzaun: nope |
| 18:53:33 | jzaun | got a current snapshot? |
| 18:53:42 | captain_proton | i gotta evolve the object interface a bit more before its really self-contained |
| 18:54:08 | jzaun | well, when its ready for other people to help code, let me know |
| 18:54:15 | jzaun | I'll give it a shot |
| 18:54:51 | captain_proton | sure thing |
| 18:55:00 | Cell_prog_insect | oh god it works now, yahoo |
| 18:55:55 | jzaun | captain_proton: Have some ideas for high-level objects to code up :-) |
| 18:56:13 | jzaun | Will BZEE be able to group ceveral objects together? |
| 18:56:33 | jzaun | move them around as one? |
| 18:57:40 | | OK, chsh[]. |
| 18:57:40 | chsh[] | ibot captain_proton's bash scripting is horrid |
| 18:57:48 | captain_proton | jzaun: groups are fundamental to it now |
| 18:57:49 | captain_proton | :) |
| 18:57:50 | | i heard captain_proton's bash scripting was horrid |
| 18:57:50 | chsh[] | ibot captain_proton's bash scripting |
| 18:57:54 | chsh[] | :) |
| 18:58:06 | chsh[] | hey cp, how are ya? |
| 18:58:21 | jzaun | captain_proton: thats great! |
| 18:58:51 | captain_proton | doin' good |
| 19:00:16 | chsh[] | that's good news |
| 19:02:35 | jzaun | captain_proton: Whats your callsign? |
| 19:02:49 | captain_proton | jzaun: ? |
| 19:03:02 | jzaun | captain_proton: in BZFlag, I wana make you a BZCop |
| 19:03:09 | captain_proton | jzaun: hmm, it changes |
| 19:03:22 | jzaun | What do you normally use? |
| 19:03:45 | captain_proton | goes to check on some wirint |
| 19:03:48 | captain_proton | wiring* |
| 19:03:54 | captain_proton | damnit i can't type at all today |
| 19:04:16 | chsh[] | today? |
| 19:04:17 | Chestal | proton, jzaun: btw., is the CTF server on jzaun.com still up? |
| 19:04:31 | chsh[] | I thought that was just a general problem of yours? |
| 19:04:36 | chsh[] | ;) |
| 19:04:46 | jzaun | Chestal: If a map is marked as CTF, it will run as such |
| 19:05:02 | Chestal | jzaun: no, I'm talking about the server for league games |
| 19:05:10 | Chestal | non-public, on some port I forgot |
| 19:05:24 | jzaun | Chestal: captain_proton must have run it, I never did |
| 19:05:43 | Chestal | that's possible, but it ran well |
| 19:06:30 | jzaun | Chestal: very, he has an account on jzaun.com :-) |
| 19:16:20 | BZFlag | jzaun: what's up with world submissions? They give a message about requiring using bzedit? |
| 19:16:28 | BZFlag | what's the reason for that? |
| 19:16:46 | jzaun | BZFlag: its the only way, currently, that I can verify the world will load properlly |
| 19:17:00 | jzaun | and that people arn't sending crap, too |
| 19:17:13 | BZFlag | what does it use to "verify" ? |
| 19:17:32 | jzaun | the 3 comment lines at the top |
| 19:17:38 | jzaun | 2 lines |
| 19:17:43 | BZFlag | ie: what's to stop a user from hand modifing a world that was originally saved with bzedit? |
| 19:17:53 | jzaun | nothing |
| 19:18:05 | PatLabor221 | a link check would be nice |
| 19:18:09 | jzaun | nothing is stoping a person from adding the comment lines to a crap text file either |
| 19:18:17 | BZFlag | so this does not really accomplish anything except to punish those that use other tools. |
| 19:18:25 | BZFlag | nice |
| 19:18:46 | jzaun | BZFlag: is there a world validator anywhere, Thats what should really be there |
| 19:18:56 | PatLabor221 | I was going to add a verify type tool to my editor, but it wasn't going to mark the file, just to help the map maker know if he messed up |
| 19:18:57 | BZFlag | no, but patches are welcome. ;-) |
| 19:19:28 | jzaun | I can currently parese a world file (with php) I guess I can start working on a world validator from that |
| 19:19:37 | PatLabor221 | that and I am going to change the way links are defined |
| 19:19:57 | BZFlag | I'd rather have a script in cvs or even have validation in bzfs.exe |
| 19:20:08 | BZFlag | PatLabor221: explain |
| 19:20:22 | jzaun | BZFlag: true, but from the php code it should be easy to convert to perl/C |
| 19:20:51 | PatLabor221 | let them tell me what telporters are the source and dest and what sides it goes to and from, and I'll figure out the link ID numbers for them |
| 19:21:13 | PatLabor221 | same data just a difrent way of looking at it |
| 19:21:20 | BZFlag | PatLabor221: ah. changed in the interface, not in the world file itself. |
| 19:21:25 | PatLabor221 | yes yes |
| 19:21:49 | PatLabor221 | seems to be one of the most confusing things about world building. |
| 19:21:58 | jzaun | BZFlag: I'll work on a validator as soon as I get the banning/unbanning interface working |
| 19:22:07 | PatLabor221 | that and the X compoenet of teleporter scale |
| 19:22:15 | jzaun | BZFlag: Should have something for you to look at tonight |
| 19:22:16 | BZFlag | jzaun: well I vote to remove the silly check. I don't use bzedit. but I can garantee my worlds are valid. |
| 19:22:22 | jzaun | er, this weekend |
| 19:22:35 | jzaun | BZFlag: I'll remove it now |
| 19:23:25 | BZFlag | bug reports for known bad worlds that bzfs still accepts would be appretiated. |
| 19:23:27 | jzaun | BZFlag: removed |
| 19:23:55 | BZFlag | is should be easy to check for some things right in bzfs and die with an error. |
| 19:24:52 | BZFlag | jzaun: now I think it might make sense to require some fields like an author etc with email info. |
| 19:25:09 | BZFlag | (on the submission site I mean, not in bzfs) |
| 19:25:36 | jzaun | BZFlag: it does... The worlds are tagged with who submitted them. Must supply and email to be able to sumbit a world |
| 19:25:50 | BZFlag | and I'm open to a standard way of including recommended flags too. |
| 19:26:05 | BZFlag | jzaun: I mean in the world file. |
| 19:26:25 | BZFlag | so that when prople download it, they get all that info. it's not just on the site. |
| 19:26:28 | jzaun | BZFlag: Right now its just a seperate field in the database that gets added to the commandline |
| 19:26:35 | jzaun | BZFlag: ahh |
| 19:26:47 | jzaun | BZFlag: I could tack that info onto the top of the file |
| 19:26:52 | jzaun | BZFlag: in comments |
| 19:26:58 | BZFlag | you're missing the point. |
| 19:27:35 | BZFlag | if there was a standard way of including the info, then bzedit etc could add that and you would not need to ask. just get it from the world. |
| 19:28:23 | jzaun | BZFlag: I understand, there should be a format that BZFS can read as well, but that would require a modification to the world file format, with 1.8 that would make sence, but from what I understand, the world file format is going to be 100% different. If there is a spec anywhere I can recommend a means of adding the info. |
| 19:28:48 | jzaun | BZFlag: If there is no spec for a new world file format I can work on up. I would recommend XML for it though |
| 19:28:55 | BZFlag | I don't think bzfs needs to read it. they are _recommedations_ not _requirements_ |
| 19:29:22 | jzaun | BZFlag: Very true, but BZFS could use them by default, overrideing with command line options |
| 19:29:34 | BZFlag | yes, we plan to move to xml for 1.8 |
| 19:29:44 | BZFlag | could, yes. I said need. |
| 19:30:05 | BZFlag | propose a standard format and we could start markup now. |
| 19:30:33 | jzaun | Let me work something up |
| 19:30:39 | BZFlag | the point is that the info should be in the world file. not some other database. |
| 19:30:52 | jzaun | agreed |
| 19:30:56 | BZFlag | now I don't mind it _also_ being in another database. |
| 19:31:14 | BZFlag | but the world file should be treated as the master. |
| 19:31:41 | jzaun | agreed. but for 1.7 I think I have the easiest method |
| 19:32:02 | BZFlag | it's obviously easier to have database fields that get populated from the world file rather than reparsing the world file on the site for example. |
| 19:32:04 | jzaun | I thing I'm planning on doing is displaying the Authors options on the worlds page |
| 19:32:18 | BZFlag | might be nice to search for ctf worlds etc. |
| 19:32:26 | jzaun | very true |
| 19:32:53 | BZFlag | and if it was all in the world file, you could auto extract files in the SF worlds database. |
| 19:33:01 | jzaun | take a look at http://stats.bzflag.org/bzlaunch.script to see how it currently works |
| 19:34:14 | BZFlag | yep. won't for for the firewall impaired. |
| 19:34:36 | jzaun | very true, requires a mysql conenction |
| 19:35:15 | BZFlag | once we agree on a format to put in world file comments, then the script can just wget a world file, or use a local, and have all the options right there. |
| 19:35:40 | jzaun | correct |
| 19:35:52 | Cell_prog_insect | cool |
| 19:36:30 | BZFlag | not trying to discourage, just steer. ;-) all efforts are appretiated, and you can do what you like. I'm just making suggestions. |
| 19:36:47 | jzaun | BZFlag: and they are welcome! |
| 19:36:57 | BZFlag | cool. |
| 19:37:08 | Cell_prog_insect | as i said |
| 19:37:16 | BZFlag | Cell_prog_insect: hehe ;-) |
| 19:38:18 | BZFlag | please post know Bad Things that bzfs accepts now in small example worlds, and I'll work on fixing bzfs to not accept them |
| 19:38:23 | Cell_prog_insect | but i wonder when u get the collison detection for arbitrary meshes working, that would take time |
| 19:38:44 | jzaun | BZFlag: big one is miss linking |
| 19:38:53 | BZFlag | we should be able to start bzfs with a timout of 1 second (or perhaps even 0 seconds) and have it do some base world validation. |
| 19:39:10 | PatLabor221 | cell I don't htink it's going to do arbitary meshes |
| 19:39:27 | Cell_prog_insect | not? |
| 19:39:28 | PatLabor221 | cap explainded in a way of colision regons that are made of prmitives |
| 19:39:46 | Cell_prog_insect | oh, right and CSG |
| 19:39:53 | BZFlag | 1.8 would likely do arbitary meshes, but require simple geometry bounding boxes for colision detection. |
| 19:39:55 | PatLabor221 | yea there will be a colison region made of the boolean operatiors of them |
| 19:40:00 | PatLabor221 | yes |
| 19:40:13 | Cell_prog_insect | why not test against triangles |
| 19:40:16 | PatLabor221 | arbitrary stuff gets too sticky |
| 19:40:24 | BZFlag | to time consuming. |
| 19:40:24 | PatLabor221 | becasue it's easy to get stuck |
| 19:40:28 | PatLabor221 | P2501 does that |
| 19:40:32 | PatLabor221 | and I get stuck all the time |
| 19:41:17 | PatLabor221 | just make sure tehre's a box, pyramid, sphere, and cyclinder and that sould cover 99% of it. |
| 19:41:18 | BZFlag | I'd like an option in the client to "see" just the bounding boxes. |
| 19:41:29 | BZFlag | should make game play possible on slow hardware. |
| 19:41:39 | BZFlag | ugly, but possible. ;-) |
| 19:41:47 | PatLabor221 | well they should be able to see them in the editor |
| 19:41:47 | Cell_prog_insect | but p2501 has a bad collision lib, i use ellipsoid against triangle test, with spatial grid and its damn fast, its from Paul Nettle |
| 19:41:48 | bzdoug | ping |
| 19:42:00 | BZFlag | yes, in the editor as well. clearly. |
| 19:42:03 | PatLabor221 | yeah you could get an average color from the texture |
| 19:42:09 | PatLabor221 | and color the prim that color |
| 19:42:24 | BZFlag | Cell_prog_insect: patches welcome. |
| 19:42:31 | bzdoug | snickers |
| 19:42:38 | PatLabor221 | that and it's in C# |
| 19:43:00 | Cell_prog_insect | no i dont work on bzflag, its endless code |
| 19:43:05 | PatLabor221 | cell you are making an arbitration with the elipsoid for the tank |
| 19:43:16 | PatLabor221 | why not use another for the objects |
| 19:43:43 | PatLabor221 | then techincaly you can sometimes get smother colision resulsts with a prim then you can with the geo |
| 19:43:51 | PatLabor221 | in the cases of sphers and cyinders |
| 19:44:19 | Cell_prog_insect | because triangles are cool, actually i collect the triangle s that are in the bounding sphere of the tank so i test on average about 5 triangles against elipsoid |
| 19:45:20 | PatLabor221 | but if the model was based on a perfect curve and then teselated, you are losing acuracry by basing your hit test on the teselation |
| 19:45:26 | PatLabor221 | and not the origonal curve |
| 19:46:13 | Cell_prog_insect | see: http://home.in.tum.de/~edelstei/ttboundspheres.jpg |
| 19:46:27 | Cell_prog_insect | i first test against bounding spheres |
| 19:46:32 | Cell_prog_insect | i made them visible |
| 19:46:38 | PatLabor221 | I know what you are doing |
| 19:46:51 | PatLabor221 | and it is better then P2501 |
| 19:46:58 | PatLabor221 | but I am saying that there are difrent ways |
| 19:47:08 | Cell_prog_insect | yes, thanks alot to Paul Nettle |
| 19:47:13 | Cell_prog_insect | of coz |
| 19:52:36 | Cell_prog_insect | and PatLabor221: i dont like modeling meshes and then trying to create optimal bounding regions + CSM with them, thats not cool, and i dont know how diff it would be to let that be done by an editor automatically, but maybe its ...hmm... not that dificult |
| 19:53:00 | PatLabor221 | cap: does your map container have provisions for a dirty flag? |
| 20:30:01 | SpacemanSpiff | Hey people |
| 20:30:03 | SpacemanSpiff | What's new? |
| 20:30:24 | sussudio | doug drinks tea made from horse poo |
| 20:30:37 | bzdoug | I DO NOT! |
| 20:30:49 | jzaun | I herd you do too |
| 20:30:54 | bzdoug | shrugs |
| 20:30:55 | sussudio | that's not what the breathalizer says. |
| 20:31:01 | bzdoug | grins |
| 20:32:40 | bzgirl | hey bzdoug |
| 20:32:48 | bzgirl | are you playing on sunday? |
| 20:32:50 | bzdoug | hey |
| 20:32:51 | bzdoug | me? |
| 20:32:55 | bzdoug | playing on sunday? |
| 20:32:56 | bzdoug | for what? |
| 20:33:03 | bzgirl | arnet you on a ctf team? |
| 20:33:12 | bzdoug | yea |
| 20:33:16 | bzgirl | annialate? |
| 20:33:21 | bzdoug | yup |
| 20:33:48 | bzgirl | i think Noodleman has a game arranged |
| 20:34:16 | bzdoug | yup |
| 20:34:48 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 20:37:52 | bzdoug | wonders if PatLabor221 ever got a tracking number... |
| 20:38:17 | PatLabor221 | it hasn't left yet |
| 20:38:21 | PatLabor221 | they forgot about it |
| 20:38:28 | bzdoug | sighs |
| 20:38:29 | bzdoug | :) |
| 20:38:42 | PatLabor221 | well it's free you can't ask for miracles |
| 20:38:47 | bzdoug | yea yea |
| 20:44:29 | bzdoug | well, is there anyway to remind them about it? or is it gonna sit there idleing till someone stumbles over it in the next 3 years |
| 20:44:34 | bzdoug | ;) |
| 20:44:47 | PatLabor221 | I did |
| 20:44:51 | bzdoug | ah |
| 20:44:59 | PatLabor221 | that's why I went to check on it |
| 20:45:05 | bzdoug | oh |
| 20:45:07 | SpacemanSpiff | Hey guys... I need your opinions on something. |
| 20:45:10 | SpacemanSpiff | http://www.picturetrail.com/bzflag |
| 20:45:29 | SpacemanSpiff | Tell me if you like that for an intro to the new Free-for-All League page |
| 20:45:55 | bzdoug | hmm |
| 20:45:59 | bzdoug | looks good |
| 20:46:14 | PatLabor221 | rather washes out and pixelated |
| 20:46:24 | PatLabor221 | I'd put someting behind the text |
| 20:46:33 | PatLabor221 | to make it stand out |
| 20:46:49 | SpacemanSpiff | Yep.. I thought of that... I may make it glow for one |
| 20:47:17 | PatLabor221 | anyting to make it show up |
| 20:47:17 | SpacemanSpiff | Either that or I'll extend the pic with some headings and different colors |
| 20:47:24 | PatLabor221 | and you you just realy realy realy like toape? |
| 20:47:46 | SpacemanSpiff | Huh? |
| 20:48:00 | PatLabor221 | it's all those shades of tan and beige |
| 20:48:07 | SpacemanSpiff | What about them? |
| 20:48:12 | bzdoug | its booooring |
| 20:48:23 | PatLabor221 | looks like a quake level |
| 20:48:35 | bzdoug | rolls his eyes |
| 20:48:45 | SpacemanSpiff | It's supposed to be.. duh.... it's sand.. with light from a sun |
| 20:48:58 | PatLabor221 | riiiiiiiiiiiigggghhhtttt |
| 20:49:17 | SpacemanSpiff | Look.. I asked for your opinion on the pic, not a bunch of rude comments |
| 20:49:20 | PatLabor221 | I like the lense flair |
| 20:49:36 | PatLabor221 | and I think the text needs to stand out more |
| 20:49:37 | PatLabor221 | that's it |
| 20:49:39 | bzdoug | SpacemanSpiff; ) |
| 20:49:45 | SpacemanSpiff | Okie |
| 20:50:01 | SpacemanSpiff | I think I can do that |
| 20:50:19 | PatLabor221 | and the text could perhaps be a bit larger |
| 20:50:42 | PatLabor221 | right now it looks like the picture is the most important part of it not the title. |
| 20:50:51 | SpacemanSpiff | I definitely agree on that.... more than anything, I just need to tweak some stuff |
| 20:51:09 | PatLabor221 | is that going to be like the header of a web page? |
| 20:51:32 | SpacemanSpiff | Well, chances are it will be the "Enter" button to the page |
| 20:51:39 | PatLabor221 | ahhhh ok |
| 20:51:50 | PatLabor221 | never understood those enter buttons |
| 20:52:00 | PatLabor221 | why not just take you there, it's not like there's a choice where to go |
| 20:52:06 | PatLabor221 | but maybe that's just me |
| 20:52:12 | SpacemanSpiff | The header will probabily be something centered around a tank |
| 20:52:20 | PatLabor221 | makes sense |
| 20:52:39 | bzdoug | wonders if OS X will burn PC dvds |
| 20:52:57 | PatLabor221 | you mean data DVDS? |
| 20:53:03 | bzdoug | yea |
| 20:53:17 | PatLabor221 | I think there's only one type |
| 20:53:29 | PatLabor221 | like an ISO96whatever |
| 20:53:31 | bzdoug | oh? |
| 20:53:38 | bzdoug | so it will read on both macs and pcs? |
| 20:53:39 | bzdoug | cool |
| 20:53:42 | PatLabor221 | well knowing apple they may have made there own |
| 20:53:48 | bzdoug | begins copying stuff over |
| 20:53:51 | bzdoug | nah |
| 20:54:02 | bzdoug | I can burn mac/windows cdrom, but I dunno about dvds |
| 20:54:03 | PatLabor221 | ISO 9660 CDS are readable in both |
| 20:54:15 | bzdoug | ok |
| 20:59:39 | bzdoug | odd, takes a looong time to copy my files over |
| 21:00:17 | bzdoug | 118 min to copy 2 gigs |
| 21:01:08 | bzdoug | ftps no better |
| 21:01:14 | bzdoug | 8 hours |
| 21:05:09 | bzdoug | yawns |
| 21:05:15 | bzdoug | is away: busy |
| 21:12:12 | bzdoug | @#$@ |
| 21:12:17 | bzdoug | my upload died |
| 21:28:41 | PatLabor221 | what are you uping? |
| 21:29:00 | bzdoug | my files to the mac so I could burn it to a dvd |
| 21:29:28 | PatLabor221 | on a local net |
| 21:29:34 | PatLabor221 | weak lan |
| 21:29:40 | bzdoug | yea |
| 21:29:48 | bzdoug | I am going through a cheapy hub |
| 21:31:58 | PatLabor221 | still |
| 21:32:12 | PatLabor221 | it's not like it's high trafic |
| 21:32:24 | bzdoug | but its odd, I should be getting 100% useage on my hub |
| 21:32:31 | PatLabor221 | does it's scream "AAAAAHHH packets" and then die |
| 21:32:31 | bzdoug | like a usaly do |
| 21:32:36 | bzdoug | no |
| 21:32:41 | bzdoug | lots of collisions |
| 21:39:48 | bzdoug | the data stream seems to go in bursts, not a stream |
| 21:52:33 | sussudio | god people are stupid. |
| 22:16:34 | bzdoug | oh? |
| 22:16:36 | bzdoug | how come? |
| 22:17:47 | sussudio | well...... on freebsdtips.com there a map running with lasers and no pyramids. |
| 22:18:04 | bzdoug | hah |
| 22:18:09 | sussudio | on the other hand, i got a score of 30 in 5 mins time |
| 22:18:20 | bzdoug | hah |
| 22:18:56 | sussudio | btw you can get a 8 port switch for like 35 dollah. |
| 22:19:12 | sussudio | with at least 32KB buffer per port :-| |
| 22:19:45 | bzdoug | yea yea, I have a 24 port 10/100 switch but I dont have anywire to string up the other side of the office |
| 22:20:28 | sussudio | i have a 100 ft cat 5 cable :-B |
| 22:20:35 | bzdoug | :P |
| 22:20:42 | bzdoug | I will get some, dont you worry |
| 22:22:00 | PatLabor221 | wire is cheap |
| 22:22:14 | bzdoug | 40 bucks for 1000 feet? |
| 22:22:56 | bzdoug | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2058039833 |
| 22:23:38 | sussudio | GAH |
| 22:23:43 | bzdoug | ? |
| 22:23:53 | sussudio | http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/gah.jpg |
| 22:24:16 | bzdoug | LOL |
| 22:24:28 | bzdoug | Unexpected exception |
| 22:24:43 | sussudio | bitchass nero |
| 22:24:50 | bzdoug | great, programmers do wonders making error boxes |
| 22:25:07 | bzdoug | try the cd anyway? |
| 22:25:44 | sussudio | it was already done |
| 22:25:51 | sussudio | notice the part about "verification started" |
| 22:25:57 | bzdoug | yea |
| 22:26:40 | bzdoug | nearly gets pushed to the edge of installing debian |
| 22:32:55 | sussudio | ibot x de en Uns ist bisher erst ein Fall bekannt, bei dem dieses Problem aufgetreten ist. |
| 22:32:56 | | sussudio: Us so far only a case is well-known, with which this problem arose. |
| 22:33:14 | sussudio | ibot x de en Als Ursache wurde die Software bzw. deren Treiber für die Digitale Audiokarte Pulsar von Creamwave ermittelt. |
| 22:33:15 | | sussudio: As a cause the software became and/or their driver f |
| 22:33:25 | sussudio | you suck nero |
| 22:33:58 | bzdoug | is away: bed |
| 22:37:31 | bzdoug | is away: busy, not bed |
| 23:14:52 | blackhound | hello everyone |
