| 00:06:50 | scanline | is away: hopefully nonpoisonous almost nutritious substances |
| 00:08:26 | | captain_proton was last seen on #bzflag 2 hours, 23 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: gtg [Sun Mar 17 21:45:02 2002] |
| 00:08:26 | crs23 | ibot, seen captain_proton |
| 01:03:55 | Chestal | crs: const float *m = matrix; ? this doesn't compile. shoudl it be = matrix.get(); ? |
| 01:05:04 | Chestal | hmm, somethign is seriously broken here |
| 01:15:46 | crs23 | argh, that's new code in Matrix. looks like i goofed. yes, it should be matrix.get(). |
| 01:16:32 | crs23 | erm, i added new code to Matrix but i'm not ready to commit it yet. unfortunately my committed changes relied on those changed. |
| 01:18:23 | crs23 | are there other bugs? perhaps i can help you can make the necessary fixes and you can commit them. (my tree isn't in a good state right now.) |
| 01:20:53 | | Chestal was last seen on #bzflag 15 minutes and 50 seconds ago, saying: hmm, somethign is seriously broken here [Mon Mar 18 01:05:03 2002] |
| 01:20:53 | crs23 | ibot, seen Chestal |
| 01:40:41 | crs23 | hey tim |
| 01:40:55 | BZFlag | hey. so are we building everywhere? |
| 01:41:09 | crs23 | looks like i broke something else. Chestal noticed it |
| 01:41:16 | BZFlag | CVSROOT=:ext:... cvs will get you access on rikers.org |
| 01:41:38 | BZFlag | welcome to irc.opensplits.net |
| 01:42:08 | crs23 | i can't fix it in my tree because i'm in the middle of something. can you help me fix it? |
| 01:42:21 | BZFlag | sure. same std::template issue? |
| 01:42:35 | crs23 | no. that should be fixed. a fix for particle systems. |
| 01:43:37 | BZFlag | ah. ok, how can I help? |
| 01:43:57 | crs23 | update and build. i think the build fails. |
| 01:45:13 | BZFlag | ok, trying laptop and rikers.org |
| 01:46:26 | BZFlag | SceneNodeParticleSystem.cxx:295: cannot convert `matrix' from type `const Matrix' to type `const float *' |
| 01:46:50 | crs23 | k. use `matrix.get()' instead of `matrix' |
| 01:47:33 | BZFlag | seemed to work, build continues... |
| 01:48:10 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorRender.cxx: In method `bool SceneVisitorRender::visit(SceneNodeParticleSystem *)': |
| 01:48:10 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorRender.cxx:768: conversion from `const float *' to non-scalar type `Matrix' requested |
| 01:48:10 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorRender.cxx:769: no match for `Matrix & *= Matrix &' |
| 01:48:43 | crs23 | first error, same fix. second error, use a.mult(b) instead of a *= b (whatever a and b are) |
| 01:49:10 | crs23 | oops. sorry, first error is something else. hmm. |
| 01:49:41 | BZFlag | yeah, needs the reverse... |
| 01:49:43 | BZFlag | Matrix matrix = ViewFrustum::getTransform(); |
| 01:50:01 | BZFlag | got a constructor? |
| 01:50:41 | crs23 | use: Matrix matrix; matrix.set(ViewFrustum::getTransform()); |
| 01:51:16 | BZFlag | k, building |
| 01:51:28 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorSimpleRender.cxx: In method `bool SceneVisitorSimpleRender::visit(SceneNodeParticleSystem *)': |
| 01:51:28 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorSimpleRender.cxx:326: conversion from `const float *' to non-scalar type `Matrix' requested |
| 01:51:28 | BZFlag | SceneVisitorSimpleRender.cxx:327: no match for `Matrix & *= Matrix &' |
| 01:51:33 | crs23 | same fix |
| 01:51:37 | BZFlag | same |
| 01:51:39 | BZFlag | yep. |
| 01:53:02 | BZFlag | building... |
| 01:53:43 | BZFlag | while I wait... rikers.org is a Cobalt cube. headless box. |
| 01:53:58 | BZFlag | I always just build the servers on there. never got GL libs. |
| 01:54:03 | crs23 | ah |
| 01:54:13 | BZFlag | glx should work if I build mesa, but I never got around to it. |
| 01:56:08 | BZFlag | little box draws 25 watts max. ;-) but it is dog slow. |
| 01:56:29 | BZFlag | nice to have a non-x86 box as a server though. never been rooted. ;-) |
| 01:56:46 | crs23 | yeah. it was painful to compile some files on it. |
| 01:56:48 | crs23 | heh |
| 01:57:11 | BZFlag | I've got another qube that has debian mips on it. it's got 2.95.4 on it iirc. |
| 01:57:19 | BZFlag | but the kernel (2.4.5) is unstable. |
| 01:57:51 | BZFlag | I keep meaning to get it up to 2.4.16 or so and move to ext3 ;-) then that will become the new rikers.org. |
| 01:58:02 | crs23 | cool |
| 01:58:09 | BZFlag | egcs 1.0.x is painful these days. |
| 01:58:19 | BZFlag | kernel is a 2.0.34 or some such. ugh. |
| 01:58:41 | crs23 | yeah. c++ compilers have finally matured and the old ones are rapidly falling behind. |
| 01:58:48 | BZFlag | ah well. I could put an x86 box in it's place too if I found one I liked. |
| 01:59:13 | crs23 | fyi, i've been working on collision stuff. |
| 01:59:14 | BZFlag | just have to be more cautious about rootkits. |
| 01:59:24 | jacques | hi guys |
| 01:59:32 | BZFlag | nice. what's the plan? slabs? |
| 01:59:49 | BZFlag | or sphere, then slabs? |
| 02:00:17 | crs23 | it's pretty flexible. i've got boxes (i.e. slabs) now. |
| 02:00:29 | crs23 | adding convex polyhedra should be easy. |
| 02:00:32 | BZFlag | going to add ramps? |
| 02:00:46 | BZFlag | ie: climbing shallow pyramids? |
| 02:00:58 | crs23 | the plan is fully generic collision detection and response |
| 02:01:16 | BZFlag | will you bounce when you land? ;-) |
| 02:01:48 | crs23 | heh. actually i was thinking of adding a delay between landing and jumping to improve gameplay. |
| 02:02:21 | jacques | just get rid od the lag advantage |
| 02:02:22 | BZFlag | that makes sense. could say that the "thrust pack" takes time to recharge. |
| 02:02:29 | jacques | that will improve gameplay immensely |
| 02:02:55 | crs23 | yeah, tim. how about that new network code. :) |
| 02:03:11 | BZFlag | hey, I'm making improvements. ;-) |
| 02:03:49 | BZFlag | I'd like to send distant player updates down less frequently. |
| 02:04:10 | BZFlag | It would be real nice for me it laser ended (dispersed?) |
| 02:04:24 | BZFlag | say 50% longer than a normal shot? |
| 02:04:41 | BZFlag | even then, that's a large radius. |
| 02:04:55 | BZFlag | but with more players and larger maps it will be important. |
| 02:05:27 | crs23 | sounds fine. |
| 02:05:28 | BZFlag | laser on riq servers is pretty silly now. |
| 02:05:47 | jacques | very silly |
| 02:05:49 | BZFlag | GM should delay reshoot time. |
| 02:05:57 | BZFlag | ie: take more time to load one up. |
| 02:06:02 | jacques | yes laser and gm are way unbalanced |
| 02:06:21 | crs23 | yeah, and maybe limit to 1 GM at a time regardless of max number of shots |
| 02:06:28 | BZFlag | I think it would be interesting to have a gm-view window. ;-) |
| 02:06:36 | jacques | :-) |
| 02:06:47 | BZFlag | crs23: or 1/2 max shots? |
| 02:06:50 | crs23 | that would be cool |
| 02:07:13 | crs23 | jacques: yeah, that'd work too. maybe server can configure per-shot-type max. |
| 02:09:37 | jacques | one thing i am realizing |
| 02:09:44 | jacques | is that good defaults are important |
| 02:09:56 | jacques | 90+% of servers naver change from the default settings |
| 02:10:30 | crs23 | bzzt. defaults are 1 shot, no jumping, no ricochet, no teleporters. |
| 02:11:12 | jacques | hmm |
| 02:11:15 | crs23 | i wish people would use those settings more. i think they're much more fun. |
| 02:11:26 | jacques | then the operators are just nuts |
| 02:11:50 | jacques | 1 shot seems like it would make for very low scoring games |
| 02:11:59 | jacques | ppl could dodge all day long |
| 02:12:09 | crs23 | i can understand multiple shots since it helps compensate for lag, but 1 shot really demands skill. |
| 02:12:15 | jacques | i like 3 or more |
| 02:12:26 | jacques | yeah - I would never be able to hit a lagger with 1 shot |
| 02:12:30 | jacques | it would be pure luck |
| 02:12:45 | crs23 | if you've got 3 people on different teams, 1 shot is enough for plenty of kills |
| 02:12:47 | jacques | even now I have to count in my head and remember the lag for each individual player |
| 02:12:50 | BZFlag | crs23: oh, commited fixes. cvs builds now. |
| 02:12:55 | jacques | which kinda sucks |
| 02:12:57 | crs23 | k. thanks. |
| 02:13:23 | jacques | I think there should be a default for max lag |
| 02:13:34 | jacques | and it should be something like 400ms |
| 02:13:42 | jacques | more than that and things get bad fast |
| 02:13:56 | crs23 | i agree. with the new network code the server should be able to enforce a max lag. |
| 02:14:06 | BZFlag | it can now. |
| 02:14:11 | BZFlag | server option. |
| 02:14:15 | crs23 | but the lag estimates suck |
| 02:14:25 | jacques | when a 1+ second lagger gets a GM and a high spot, say goodnight |
| 02:14:27 | BZFlag | agreed. they will be better. |
| 02:14:44 | BZFlag | it's easier to out run a lagger's GM. |
| 02:14:59 | BZFlag | but not by much |
| 02:15:32 | jacques | really? I never noticed that |
| 02:15:43 | BZFlag | if the client did dead straight, then it would be easy, but GM flight would be ugly and updates more frequent. |
| 02:15:58 | BZFlag | jacques: it's really just the locks that lag now. |
| 02:16:11 | BZFlag | so one on one is no easier. |
| 02:17:29 | crs23 | reads karma.txt |
| 02:19:52 | jacques | BZFlag: can I ask a philosophical question? |
| 02:20:51 | jacques | well I'll ask anyway |
| 02:20:54 | crs23 | ooh, please, BZFlag, let him ask. |
| 02:21:28 | jacques | why, oh why, is collision detection (and just about everything else) not done in the server? |
| 02:21:39 | jacques | (as God intended) |
| 02:21:48 | crs23 | jacques, i'll take that one. |
| 02:21:52 | jacques | ok |
| 02:22:16 | crs23 | bzflag was originally a LAN game, so you you knew who you were playing... |
| 02:22:29 | jacques | ah, historical reasons |
| 02:22:38 | jacques | that's what I thought |
| 02:22:40 | crs23 | therefore cheating wasn't a serious problem. if the client does all the work then you've got nice distributed computation. |
| 02:23:05 | jacques | and since you're on a lan, negligible lag |
| 02:23:21 | crs23 | i'd like to move a lot of things into the server now to make cheating harder |
| 02:23:28 | BZFlag | returns... |
| 02:23:50 | BZFlag | agrees. |
| 02:23:58 | crs23 | yeah, very low lag. that's why it was a TCP game before. that was just easier. |
| 02:24:00 | BZFlag | the server's view of the world should be master. |
| 02:24:12 | jacques | these days I dont think it will be a computational problem foir the servers |
| 02:24:24 | BZFlag | but with lag issues, it's a bit odd to not see yourself get shot and then die. |
| 02:24:37 | crs23 | yeah, GFLOPS oughta be enough. :) |
| 02:24:43 | BZFlag | that's a bit worse that seeing yourself hit someone and they don't die. |
| 02:24:52 | jacques | but that's fair |
| 02:25:00 | jacques | lag should be panalized, not the oposite |
| 02:25:07 | jacques | damn i cannot type |
| 02:25:13 | jacques | penalized, opposite |
| 02:26:08 | jacques | you want to encourage ppl to play on the lowest lag servers to them |
| 02:26:11 | BZFlag | I do want some position detection done on the server. you will notice that protocol.h has the server placing players that come to life. |
| 02:26:11 | crs23 | clients will still have to do local stuff, but the server will have to do the work too and force the clients to behave |
| 02:26:14 | jacques | not the opposite |
| 02:26:37 | jacques | hell, I want the server to pick spawn points |
| 02:26:46 | jacques | keep track of flags |
| 02:26:48 | BZFlag | I was thinking of adding peer kill code. ie: if the majority of players think you died, you did. |
| 02:27:04 | jacques | heh, that could be kinda ... interesting |
| 02:27:10 | crs23 | clients should be able to volunteer to die for quick feedback. the server will kill them anyway later. |
| 02:27:22 | jacques | i want the server to enforce movement constraints |
| 02:27:24 | BZFlag | yep, that's about right. |
| 02:27:45 | BZFlag | I don't want the server doing constant colision calculations. |
| 02:27:53 | jacques | turn rate, movement rate, jumps |
| 02:27:55 | jacques | why not? |
| 02:28:05 | jacques | trying to understand the agenda |
| 02:28:13 | BZFlag | however if you do not have OO and you send a player update that is inside a building, then the server should kill you. |
| 02:28:27 | jacques | BZFlag: are you concerned about server CPU load? |
| 02:28:37 | BZFlag | it's the player projection calculations I'd like to avoind. |
| 02:28:43 | jacques | you want to be able to run servers on really weak machines? |
| 02:28:54 | jacques | I just dont think it will be that intensive |
| 02:28:57 | BZFlag | jacques: well I'd like to put no more cpu load than required. |
| 02:29:03 | jacques | look at games like Q3 and UT |
| 02:29:13 | BZFlag | more that current certianly, but not enough to worry any sane admin. |
| 02:29:56 | jacques | I think all collision detection should be done in the server. period. |
| 02:30:03 | jacques | but i know that's just me |
| 02:30:18 | BZFlag | there are others that believe that too. |
| 02:30:25 | jacques | :-) |
| 02:30:29 | BZFlag | I'm just not one of them. ;-) |
| 02:30:35 | crs23 | jacques: the client must also do it so it can have fast feedback |
| 02:30:42 | BZFlag | agreed |
| 02:30:47 | jacques | crs23: ok, but server is still god |
| 02:30:55 | BZFlag | there I agree too. |
| 02:30:58 | crs23 | i agree with you |
| 02:31:03 | jacques | :-D |
| 02:31:08 | BZFlag | the server owns the world. you are just a visitor. ;-) |
| 02:31:13 | jacques | exactly |
| 02:31:28 | jacques | server: "it's my world - you just get to play in it" |
| 02:31:34 | BZFlag | heh |
| 02:31:48 | BZFlag | it's my world, you can die if I want you too. |
| 02:32:09 | jacques | :-) |
| 02:32:17 | jacques | you will die when I tell you |
| 02:32:34 | BZFlag | so what do you think of the peer killing? |
| 02:32:55 | BZFlag | not a such a good idea on 2 player games, but 5 and up is probably safe. |
| 02:33:47 | crs23 | hmm. i'm not sure. isn't that taking authority from the server? |
| 02:33:48 | BZFlag | it means a player->server packet from each player for any player death. (well, likely any nearby death?) |
| 02:33:58 | jacques | I think we would see some interesting "team" games :-\ |
| 02:34:03 | jacques | but many call me paranoid |
| 02:34:17 | BZFlag | it's just a suggestion to the server. it might spark the server to do more checks than normal. |
| 02:34:26 | crs23 | i think you're right, jacques. some people will cheat any way they can. |
| 02:34:49 | crs23 | BZFlag: interesting. that could work. |
| 02:35:15 | BZFlag | so not a majority rule, but a "server please check" msg. |
| 02:35:56 | jacques | ok, I dont have a problem with that |
| 02:36:00 | BZFlag | "I saw player 9 get hit by player 23 shot 4 at x,y,z,t" |
| 02:36:03 | crs23 | yeah, a cheater alert for the server |
| 02:36:27 | BZFlag | then the server does a shot/player projection and determines if it agrees. |
| 02:36:48 | jacques | bzflag 1.8 - Now with TattleTale (TM) technology |
| 02:36:55 | BZFlag | heh! cool. |
| 02:39:11 | scanline | is back (gone 02:32:22) |
| 02:39:11 | jacques | or should that be tail |
| 02:39:29 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'tattletale' |
| 02:39:29 | jacques | ibot: spell tattletale |
| 02:39:38 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'tattletail' |
| 02:39:38 | jacques | ibot: spell tattletail |
| 02:39:45 | jacques | ibot: spell sdlkdkuhgkjdf,g |
| 02:39:59 | jacques | he's dead, jim |
| 02:40:22 | | jacques: i don't know |
| 02:40:22 | jacques | ibot: ? |
| 02:40:26 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'there' |
| 02:40:26 | BZFlag | ibot spell there |
| 02:40:26 | jacques | phew |
| 02:40:35 | BZFlag | looks broken to me. |
| 02:40:46 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'speel' |
| 02:40:46 | jacques | ibot: spell speel |
| 02:40:59 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'abcdefghijklmnop' |
| 02:40:59 | jacques | ibot: spell abcdefghijklmnop |
| 02:41:12 | jacques | he's brokeded, jim |
| 02:41:35 | BZFlag | yep. no ispell on the server he lives on now. |
| 02:42:19 | jacques | i think there should be a better message |
| 02:43:59 | | jacques: BNC (brain not (user brain not connected) |
| 02:43:59 | jacques | ibot: excuse |
| 02:44:30 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'now' |
| 02:44:30 | BZFlag | ibot spell now |
| 02:45:00 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'antidisestablishmentarianism' |
| 02:45:00 | jacques | ibot: spell antidisestablishmentarianism |
| 02:45:15 | crs23 | heh. intellect unavailable; frontal lobe not found. |
| 02:45:45 | crs23 | i'm off to get dinner. cheers. |
| 02:45:50 | jacques | later crs23 |
| 02:46:11 | | I can't find alternate spellings for 'antidisestablishmentarianisma' |
| 02:46:11 | jacques | ibot: spell antidisestablishmentarianisma |
| 02:46:25 | BZFlag | hmm |
| 02:46:35 | jacques | BZFlag: do you use optical mice? |
| 02:47:16 | jacques | I am having a devil of a time finding an appropriate mousepad |
| 02:48:54 | BZFlag | jacques: yeah, I have a logitech usb wheel optical. |
| 02:49:01 | BZFlag | the padless version. it rocks. |
| 02:49:14 | | BZFlag: sorry... |
| 02:49:14 | BZFlag | ibot spell now |
| 02:49:18 | BZFlag | better? |
| 02:50:25 | jacques | BZFlag: unfortunately, the surface of my computer table is not really ideal for my mouse |
| 02:50:32 | jacques | it's black vinyl |
| 02:50:37 | jacques | textured |
| 02:50:57 | BZFlag | my logitech works on white countertops. have not tried black. |
| 02:51:08 | jacques | i bought a mousepad "especially designed for optical mice" yesterday, but it sucks - it freaks out my mouse |
| 02:51:20 | jacques | i have a logitech "dual optical" mouse |
| 02:51:41 | jacques | my main problem is that the vinyls is "sticky" |
| 02:52:03 | jacques | i need a smooth hard surface that does not freak out the mouse |
| 02:52:52 | scanline | I like the 3M mouse pad |
| 02:55:56 | jacques | scanline: I have one of those but it's for ball mice |
| 02:56:07 | jacques | it has lots of tiny pyramids on it |
| 02:56:14 | scanline | jacques: yep, it works fine for opticals too |
| 02:56:14 | jacques | it's too rough for the optical |
| 02:56:20 | jacques | not for mine |
| 02:56:24 | scanline | hmm... |
| 02:56:33 | scanline | has a logitech optical.. but not dual optical |
| 02:56:35 | jacques | logitech has started putting microscopic teflon pads on their mice |
| 02:56:47 | jacques | my older logitech mice have much larger pads |
| 02:57:06 | jacques | the new mice have pads which are way too small IMHO |
| 02:57:12 | BZFlag | mine has teflon pads. M-BJ58 |
| 02:57:31 | scanline | M-BD58 here... |
| 02:57:57 | jacques | hmm, i just tried it |
| 02:58:03 | jacques | it's not as bad as I remember |
| 02:58:19 | jacques | hmm i just need some dual-sided tape now |
| 02:58:26 | jacques | (mouse pad slides around) |
| 02:58:29 | scanline | yeah |
| 02:58:48 | jacques | hey this is actually quite nice |
| 02:58:57 | jacques | thanks for reminding me to try that again |
| 02:59:02 | jacques | :-D |
| 02:59:07 | scanline | no problem |
| 02:59:16 | jacques | QUITE nice |
| 03:00:38 | BZFlag | I was messing with an IR mouse/keyboard the other day. nice. wonder if there is an optical version? |
| 03:00:44 | BZFlag | wonder what the battery life is? |
| 03:01:47 | jacques | the main thing I have heard about cordless mice is that they are not good for gaming |
| 03:01:53 | jacques | because there is a delay |
| 03:02:08 | jacques | that's why i got the dual optical |
| 03:02:21 | BZFlag | ah, good point. |
| 03:02:22 | jacques | two sensors = less error |
| 03:02:40 | jacques | because just a year ago even optical were not good for gaming - sample rates too low |
| 03:02:45 | BZFlag | can you see two sensors on the bottom? |
| 03:02:49 | jacques | yep |
| 03:03:09 | BZFlag | cool. |
| 03:03:23 | jacques | http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/gaming/5850.shtml |
| 03:03:28 | jacques | that's not where i got it |
| 03:04:27 | jacques | my one complaint is that the sides are translucent |
| 03:04:46 | jacques | and for some reason the brightness of the red leds keeps going up and down |
| 03:04:56 | BZFlag | power saving mode. |
| 03:05:01 | jacques | i thought it was because of the surface, but it's still doing it |
| 03:05:10 | jacques | OF COURSE! |
| 03:05:13 | jacques | i never thought of that |
| 03:05:15 | BZFlag | low power just detects movement, full power does tha actual reads. |
| 03:05:24 | jacques | :-) |
| 03:05:33 | jacques | I do notice it doing it at idle though |
| 03:05:53 | jacques | if I just sit and watch it....hmmm it's not doing it right now |
| 03:06:09 | jacques | you;re absolutely right - it goes bright when I move it |
| 03:06:44 | BZFlag | I think it's cool. ;-) |
| 03:07:07 | jacques | heh, how much power do two leds take? :-) |
| 03:07:34 | jacques | either of you know anything about tuning usb mice under linux? |
| 03:07:54 | jacques | such as inreasing usb sample rate/priority/et? |
| 03:10:17 | jacques | god some new dvds today |
| 03:10:45 | BZFlag | have not messed with tuning yet. |
| 03:12:09 | jacques | i remember increasing the sample rate of my ps/2 mice under windows |
| 03:12:17 | jacques | it noticeably improved gameplay |
| 03:44:47 | captain_proton | wakes up |
| 03:55:11 | vogon_jeltz | is away: Simpsons |
| 04:06:42 | BZFlag | restarts list server, server entries drop, but should come back. |
| 04:22:07 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 04:22:09 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 04:22:10 | iLLf8d | see |
| 04:22:15 | captain_proton | what did crs change with particles |
| 04:22:17 | captain_proton | ? |
| 04:22:24 | iLLf8d | dunno |
| 04:22:52 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: i think you sent me this before |
| 04:23:11 | iLLf8d | ah |
| 04:23:12 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 04:23:15 | iLLf8d | maybe |
| 04:23:39 | captain_proton | [jupiter@bhaskara /tmp]$ ls -l ~/bz/circ_decks_roids |
| 04:23:39 | captain_proton | -rw-rw-r-- 1 jupiter jupiter 31197 Feb 23 01:50 /home/jupiter/bz/circ_decks_roids |
| 04:24:18 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 04:24:24 | iLLf8d | got another one |
| 04:24:25 | iLLf8d | uhm |
| 04:24:35 | iLLf8d | its a qbert strange decks hybrid |
| 04:24:46 | iLLf8d | don't think you've seen that one |
| 04:26:44 | iLLf8d | sheesh |
| 04:26:53 | iLLf8d | I got so many hard to find heh |
| 04:26:58 | iLLf8d | I need a map browser heh |
| 04:27:53 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:32:42) |
| 04:28:38 | captain_proton | wb vogon_jeltz |
| 04:28:45 | vogon_jeltz | hi :P |
| 04:28:58 | vogon_jeltz | "Victory? We're French! We don't even have a word for it!" |
| 04:28:59 | iLLf8d | lo vogon_jeltz |
| 06:35:06 | BZFlag | nite |
| 06:49:58 | Aldebaran | is AWAY at 01:52:38 : playing bzflag |
| 06:57:06 | Aldebaran | is back after 0 d 0 h 7 m 8 s |
| 07:13:54 | captain_proton | you ever get the feeling that you're way too dedicated to your own education? |
| 07:14:12 | vogon_jeltz | nope |
| 07:14:44 | captain_proton | smack* |
| 07:14:54 | vogon_jeltz | can't wait for Ocean's Eleven to come out on tape |
| 07:14:59 | vogon_jeltz | it was a cool movie |
| 07:15:31 | vogon_jeltz | especially (and I'm not making this up) the scene with the robot van that exploded in porno leaflets |
| 07:16:37 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 07:17:08 | captain_proton | right now the only emotion i have is BLAH |
| 07:17:31 | Aldebaran | uh I have a question.... |
| 07:17:35 | vogon_jeltz | apathy rules! |
| 07:17:52 | captain_proton | Aldebaran: shoot |
| 07:18:09 | Aldebaran | what does playing.cxx:1090: name lookup of `i' changed for new ISO `for' scoping mean? |
| 07:18:53 | captain_proton | well |
| 07:18:57 | captain_proton | apathy had a for loop like this |
| 07:19:13 | Aldebaran | you thats what it's from won't compile |
| 07:19:13 | captain_proton | for(int i = 0; i < blah; i++) { do some stuff}; <used i out uere> |
| 07:19:27 | captain_proton | you need to put 'int i;' outside of the for loop |
| 07:19:34 | captain_proton | and just have for(i = 0; ... |
| 07:21:40 | Aldebaran | the line in question I think, is if (i >= maxPlayers) { |
| 07:21:55 | Aldebaran | i needs to be initialized outside? |
| 07:22:08 | Aldebaran | I will ask the author |
| 07:24:16 | Aldebaran | in c++ is if (i >= blabla ) {stuff} acceptable? >=? |
| 07:32:19 | captain_proton | well |
| 07:32:31 | captain_proton | the problem is that the i is defined only within the for loop |
| 07:32:40 | captain_proton | add (before the for loop) |
| 07:32:40 | captain_proton | int i; |
| 07:32:45 | captain_proton | and change the for loop to read |
| 07:32:45 | | captain_proton: that doesn't look right |
| 07:32:55 | captain_proton | for(i = 0; ... |
| 07:32:58 | | Sorry, captain_proton, I'll keep my mouth shut. |
| 07:32:58 | captain_proton | ibot: shut up |
| 07:33:31 | Aldebaran | ok removie int=i from for (....) and put it before the loop, then it will work for the if statement.. let me try |
| 07:34:25 | captain_proton | remove 'int' from the for loop |
| 07:34:30 | captain_proton | and add the line before |
| 07:34:37 | Aldebaran | compiling |
| 07:36:42 | Aldebaran | now i have a parse error.... |
| 07:36:49 | Aldebaran | but the other error is gone |
| 07:36:53 | captain_proton | paste |
| 07:37:18 | Aldebaran | playing.cxx: In function `Player *lookupJerk ()': |
| 07:37:18 | Aldebaran | playing.cxx:1085: parse error before `)' |
| 07:37:18 | Aldebaran | playing.cxx:1085: warning: statement with no effect |
| 07:37:18 | Aldebaran | make[3]: *** [playing.o] Error 1 |
| 07:37:30 | captain_proton | paste the few lines around 1085 |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | Player* lookupJerk() |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | { |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | if (killTarget[0] == 0) |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | return NULL; |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | int i; |
| 07:38:17 | Aldebaran | for ( i < maxPlayers; i++) { |
| 07:38:19 | Aldebaran | if (player[i] && strcasecmp( player[i]->getCallSign(), killTarget ) == 0) |
| 07:38:21 | Aldebaran | break; |
| 07:38:23 | Aldebaran | } |
| 07:39:04 | Aldebaran | is this position sensative? the coloums that int i; starts in make a difference? |
| 07:39:27 | captain_proton | nope |
| 07:39:35 | captain_proton | whitespace has no affect |
| 07:39:54 | Aldebaran | when initialized does a variable need a value or can it be null? |
| 07:40:00 | captain_proton | ohh |
| 07:40:08 | captain_proton | for(i = 0; i < maxPlayers; i++) |
| 07:40:09 | Aldebaran | int i = 0; |
| 07:40:17 | Aldebaran | oh |
| 07:40:26 | Aldebaran | the for loop need to know where to start at |
| 07:40:34 | Aldebaran | just not initalized there |
| 07:40:36 | Aldebaran | ? |
| 07:41:07 | Aldebaran | for (i=0; i < maxPlayers; i++) { correct? |
| 07:41:25 | captain_proton | looks right |
| 07:42:01 | Aldebaran | goofy syntax don't remember much modula II but remember it was very natural syntax |
| 07:42:20 | Aldebaran | this is c++? |
| 07:42:26 | captain_proton | yep |
| 07:42:36 | captain_proton | that particular block is valid C too |
| 07:42:57 | Aldebaran | oh I presumed it was, just the whole of c syntax is confusing to me |
| 07:43:39 | Aldebaran | !!! a bzflag with todays date is in my /bin dir !!! |
| 07:44:33 | Aldebaran | in order to be of any help at all I need to learn c don't I |
| 07:45:13 | captain_proton | well |
| 07:45:14 | captain_proton | sorta |
| 07:45:17 | Aldebaran | I feel lower than a script-rat, I take pieces of code and cobble it all together and beg for help when it dosn't work |
| 07:45:22 | captain_proton | its pretty easy to hack at the data files |
| 07:45:47 | captain_proton | all the view/model stuff is in fairly simple xml |
| 07:46:09 | captain_proton | join my server (bhaskara.bzflag.org:5155) to test |
| 07:46:17 | captain_proton | k? |
| 07:46:25 | Aldebaran | I don't even know what xml means. I used to know cobol ... gone to bhaskara... |
| 08:20:03 | captain_proton | BZFlag is on the project donations list at tux games? |
| 08:20:05 | captain_proton | whoa |
| 08:20:17 | captain_proton | i wonder how much money riker's pawned off of innocent users |
| 08:22:13 | vogon_jeltz | $2.50 |
| 08:22:23 | vogon_jeltz | and a Tic-Tac |
| 08:22:36 | scanline | might actually port BZflag to dreamcast... |
| 08:25:15 | MrApathyCream | heh |
| 08:25:34 | MrApathyCream | cap, crs fix particles in bz? |
| 08:53:29 | captain_proton | ooh |
| 08:53:29 | captain_proton | root |
| 08:53:34 | irc | hy proton if you're still up that dude keeps coming back |
| 08:53:40 | irc | its me iLL in console |
| 08:53:43 | irc | or tank |
| 08:53:49 | captain_proton | what dude? |
| 08:53:54 | irc | I kicked him numerous times he's down to negros are ok now heh |
| 08:53:58 | irc | nstarted with kkk is ok |
| 08:54:01 | irc | and others |
| 08:54:09 | irc | the anti semite dude |
| 08:54:18 | irc | gotta go root |
| 08:54:20 | irc | nheh |
| 08:54:20 | captain_proton | geez |
| 08:54:23 | irc | quit |
| 08:54:24 | captain_proton | time to kick some ass |
| 09:00:01 | scanline | i must be using a lot more than 100MB on sourceforge... |
| 09:00:05 | scanline | and they haven't complained yet :) |
| 09:00:33 | scanline | I like gimp |
| 09:00:36 | scanline | http://picogui.org/download/debian-water.640.jpeg |
| 09:01:21 | captain_proton | scanline: how? |
| 09:01:34 | scanline | how wha? |
| 09:01:48 | captain_proton | how do you have > 100MB on sf? |
| 09:01:59 | scanline | lots of picogui files |
| 09:02:17 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 09:02:17 | captain_proton | ooh |
| 09:02:21 | captain_proton | nice gimpage |
| 09:02:24 | scanline | :) |
| 09:02:30 | captain_proton | i see the brushed metal filter owns you too |
| 09:02:41 | scanline | yes yes.. i used the perl-fu for the brushed metal |
| 09:02:51 | captain_proton | there's a perl-fu for it? |
| 09:02:54 | scanline | and the hilighting was just fun withlayer masks |
| 09:02:55 | scanline | yep |
| 09:03:08 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 09:03:16 | captain_proton | i think i just use the one in filters->render |
| 09:03:23 | scanline | isn't that one perl? |
| 09:03:28 | captain_proton | dunno |
| 09:03:38 | captain_proton | i still like photoshop better =| |
| 09:03:57 | scanline | yeah, filters->render->brushed_metal is perl |
| 09:04:12 | captain_proton | heh |
| 09:04:12 | scanline | bah.. i've only used photoshop a little, but i like gimp's interface a lot better |
| 09:04:15 | scanline | and gimp is free |
| 09:04:31 | captain_proton | i'm thinking of using brushed aluminum for the case on a wearable computing project a friend and I are pursing |
| 09:04:35 | captain_proton | pursuing* |
| 09:04:48 | scanline | dat's cool |
| 09:05:08 | captain_proton | either that or steel anodized with gold ;) |
| 09:05:14 | scanline | haha |
| 09:05:37 | captain_proton | if we can integrate everything right, when this company that we're working with gets their next-generation product working we'll have super-tiny p3 wearables |
| 09:05:59 | scanline | pentium, bah :P |
| 09:06:02 | scanline | use ARM or something |
| 09:06:17 | scanline | ARM or PPC.. |
| 09:06:18 | captain_proton | our aim is for general-purpose computing |
| 09:06:23 | captain_proton | and nothing beats x86 for that |
| 09:06:36 | scanline | umm. doesn't matter when you need a car battery to run it for more than 2 hours |
| 09:06:50 | captain_proton | gah |
| 09:06:52 | captain_proton | you don't |
| 09:07:01 | scanline | x86 is an ugly architecture, and power hungry |
| 09:07:17 | scanline | if you need x86 compatibility, at least go crusoe or something |
| 09:07:23 | captain_proton | 2 fairly small lithiums can power the prototype boards for 16 hours |
| 09:07:43 | captain_proton | add another couple milliwatts for the display and you're set ;) |
| 09:08:06 | scanline | uh huh... |
| 09:08:20 | scanline | those same batteries would run an embedded PPC a lot longer |
| 09:08:25 | captain_proton | true |
| 09:08:36 | scanline | besides, you can compile linux on almost anything, and linux is about as general-purpose as it gets |
| 09:08:54 | scanline | s/on/for/ |
| 09:08:56 | captain_proton | ppc linux isn't to the point it needs to be |
| 09:09:10 | scanline | how so? |
| 09:09:22 | captain_proton | lots of missing features |
| 09:09:27 | scanline | like...? |
| 09:09:35 | captain_proton | stable X |
| 09:09:59 | captain_proton | we're not the ones building the boards |
| 09:10:04 | scanline | that's not a problem with Linux, that would be a problem with X.. and i've used linux on my PPC laptop without any problems with X |
| 09:10:12 | captain_proton | we're primarily integrating a display |
| 09:10:36 | captain_proton | i'm not really in the mood to get into an architecture war with you |
| 09:11:13 | scanline | hehe... just say "well, i know x86 sucks, but if you saw the size of the gun he had... well, you'd do the same thing i'm doing" |
| 09:11:28 | captain_proton | haha |
| 09:12:06 | captain_proton | x86 isn't horrible |
| 09:12:11 | captain_proton | its just gotten out of hand |
| 09:12:35 | scanline | but the fact that people still use x86 when there are clearly better options is what bothers me |
| 09:12:43 | captain_proton | well |
| 09:12:53 | captain_proton | as my cac instructor is so fond of pointing out |
| 09:13:05 | captain_proton | people like all their old software to run on new machines |
| 09:13:22 | scanline | that's what compilers are for :P |
| 09:13:32 | scanline | and if you're into that proprietary stuff, there are always emulators |
| 09:13:43 | captain_proton | emulators suck |
| 09:13:53 | scanline | that's why we have compilers |
| 09:14:12 | captain_proton | that theory works for open source |
| 09:14:18 | captain_proton | but not really for commercial software |
| 09:14:20 | scanline | i don't see people using the 6502 architecture in desktops just so they can use Apple II software |
| 09:14:55 | captain_proton | apple II software can kiss my ass |
| 09:15:17 | scanline | uh huh... most people just care about running old windows/dos software |
| 09:15:30 | scanline | hence the only reason people use x86 still is because of microsoft |
| 09:15:41 | captain_proton | yes |
| 09:15:44 | scanline | so i can understand some people wanting it in desktops |
| 09:15:54 | scanline | but i find x86 in embedded systems ludicrous |
| 09:16:09 | scanline | it's only done to make things easier on developers who are entrenched in x86-land |
| 09:16:19 | captain_proton | the idea of this wearable project is that it won't be a real embedded system |
| 09:16:43 | captain_proton | also, a lot of hardware is made to work with the PC architecture |
| 09:16:57 | scanline | what kind of hardware will it have? |
| 09:17:14 | captain_proton | lets see... |
| 09:17:40 | captain_proton | a p3, a good amount of ram, hard disk, video card (not 3d, at least for now), sound card |
| 09:17:48 | captain_proton | maybe firewire/USB |
| 09:18:09 | scanline | hard to find firewire in most embedded hardware now... |
| 09:18:25 | scanline | you could use a Power Mac motherboard, but that wouldn't be small or cheap :) |
| 09:18:46 | scanline | does firewire come on the board, or would you add a PCI card for it? |
| 09:18:48 | captain_proton | we're working with a company thats developing some small stuff |
| 09:18:55 | captain_proton | PCI? yick |
| 09:19:04 | scanline | PC/104? |
| 09:19:09 | captain_proton | they have a technology called an 'adaptive system bus' |
| 09:19:20 | scanline | ummkay |
| 09:19:32 | captain_proton | where you can throw these small 1"x1" boards together in whatever orientation you like and it will make all the right connections |
| 09:19:46 | scanline | 1 inch? |
| 09:19:49 | captain_proton | yes |
| 09:19:53 | scanline | holy cow |
| 09:19:57 | captain_proton | the main system board is 3 of those |
| 09:20:02 | scanline | that's nifty |
| 09:20:06 | captain_proton | 1 for the processor and 2 others for most of the controllers |
| 09:20:24 | captain_proton | then you add modules for sound, video, etc |
| 09:20:26 | scanline | for that kind of smallness i'd think it would require soem custom chips |
| 09:20:34 | scanline | s/soem/some/ |
| 09:20:40 | captain_proton | yeah, there are some custom chips |
| 09:20:53 | captain_proton | but its all standard PC hardware |
| 09:20:54 | scanline | or maybe CPU on one side of the board and FPGA on the other :) |
| 09:21:18 | scanline | what brand x86-compatible CPU are they using? |
| 09:21:38 | captain_proton | right now the prototype boards have intel 486's soldered to them |
| 09:21:56 | captain_proton | they're waiting on some more funding to do a big board run |
| 09:22:04 | captain_proton | at which time they'll start using p3s |
| 09:22:17 | scanline | isn't a P3 itself larger than 1"? |
| 09:22:23 | captain_proton | not the p3 mobile |
| 09:22:38 | scanline | ok |
| 09:22:40 | captain_proton | .13 micron is a beautiful thing ;) |
| 09:23:50 | captain_proton | well, seeing as i have class in a little more than 5 hours |
| 09:23:56 | captain_proton | goodnight |
| 09:24:02 | scanline | ok, good night |
| 09:46:23 | iLLf8d | cap |
| 09:46:28 | iLLf8d | i' |
| 09:46:29 | iLLf8d | oops |
| 09:46:31 | iLLf8d | i'd ban that guy |
| 09:46:40 | iLLf8d | some of your regulars are leaving cause of him |
| 09:46:47 | iLLf8d | its up to you tho |
| 09:46:51 | iLLf8d | when I kick him he returns |
| 09:46:58 | iLLf8d | i'm going to eat dinner |
| 11:00:37 | Chestal | re |
| 11:38:29 | iLLf8d | lo Chestal |
| 11:38:42 | iLLf8d | who returned me? |
| 11:38:43 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 11:38:54 | iLLf8d | been getting segfaults more and more lately |
| 11:38:57 | iLLf8d | dunno whats up with that |
| 11:39:15 | iLLf8d | now i've got some files I can't delete |
| 11:39:17 | iLLf8d | wierd |
| 12:07:38 | Chestal | tag lupi |
| 12:09:27 | lupinator | re |
| 12:20:11 | lupinator | i found a bug that might crash the client |
| 12:21:53 | lupinator | when you are on the first menu MenuManager::pop() should not be called when you press Esc |
| 12:22:32 | lupinator | for example: start it, press esc, press n -> bang |
| 12:25:49 | Chestal | yes, crashes for me, too |
| 12:33:12 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sleep |
| 15:55:08 | captain_proton | returns from class |
| 16:17:34 | captain_proton | anybody alive? |
| 16:18:06 | captain_proton | i need someone to help me test bans |
| 16:19:32 | Chestal | alive, yes, but I am working |
| 16:19:39 | captain_proton | actually |
| 16:19:43 | captain_proton | i can test on myself ;) |
| 16:19:44 | Chestal | bans for 1.8 or for 1.7? |
| 16:19:48 | captain_proton | 1.7 |
| 16:19:55 | captain_proton | 1.8 shouldn't require bans because of the karma system |
| 16:20:01 | Chestal | I have bans on ducati, but never submitted a patch for several reasons |
| 16:20:31 | captain_proton | i'm just doing it by keeping a vector of struct sockaddr_in's |
| 16:20:37 | captain_proton | and comparing the s_addr on join |
| 16:21:04 | Chestal | yes, I'm doign in it a similar fashion, I guess it's a dequeue for me, I'm using temp bans with 15 minutes duration |
| 16:22:00 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 16:22:14 | captain_proton | these are permament (for the duration of the process() |
| 16:24:56 | captain_proton | hmm actually i do need someone to help me test |
| 16:25:01 | captain_proton | because i'm not in the player list |
| 16:25:08 | captain_proton | blah |
| 16:25:09 | captain_proton | yes i am |
| 16:25:16 | captain_proton | i wonder whats going on with it... |
| 16:29:57 | lupinator | still need somebpdy? |
| 16:30:07 | captain_proton | i shouldn't need anybody |
| 16:30:13 | captain_proton | but for kicks, why not |
| 16:30:22 | captain_proton | bhaskara.bzflag.org:5157 |
| 16:30:25 | captain_proton | (1.7) |
| 16:31:58 | captain_proton | coming? |
| 16:32:00 | lupinator | hm you banned me before i joined? |
| 16:32:05 | captain_proton | no |
| 16:32:07 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 16:32:09 | lupinator | i can'T join |
| 16:32:19 | captain_proton | does it say you have been BANNED ? |
| 16:32:35 | lupinator | game is said tob e full or over |
| 16:32:46 | captain_proton | hmm odd |
| 16:33:11 | lupinator | now i'm in |
| 16:34:08 | captain_proton | now i can't join |
| 16:35:51 | captain_proton | stupid 1.7e5 network finagling |
| 16:50:30 | captain_proton | lupinator: still here? |
| 16:57:00 | captain_proton | Chestal: care to send me a patch for your tempban? i'd like to have both in the server |
| 17:00:57 | Chestal | captain: hmm, I would have to create a patch first, my server is a whole patch-work |
| 17:01:10 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 17:01:22 | captain_proton | you could just send me your source tree and i'll figure it out |
| 17:01:35 | Chestal | hehe, as you ulike :-) |
| 17:01:40 | Chestal | mail? |
| 17:01:48 | captain_proton | jupiter@babylonia.flatirons.org |
| 17:02:05 | captain_proton | after i get temp/perm bans up i'm going to start implementing some basic anti-cheating stuff in the server |
| 17:02:11 | captain_proton | erk |
| 17:02:15 | captain_proton | that doesn't work with multicast |
| 17:02:16 | captain_proton | bah |
| 17:02:17 | captain_proton | nevermind |
| 17:02:19 | captain_proton | just bans ;) |
| 17:02:35 | Chestal | you have spam |
| 17:02:46 | captain_proton | spam? |
| 17:03:05 | captain_proton | haha |
| 17:03:13 | captain_proton | you just sent bzfs.cxx as the contents? |
| 17:03:23 | Chestal | yes |
| 17:03:33 | Chestal | mail < bzfs.cxx ... |
| 17:04:03 | Chestal | now you can see all my secret hacks which make me perform so good on ducati ;-) |
| 17:04:55 | captain_proton | haha |
| 17:05:07 | captain_proton | i may copy a lot of this stuff into my own server |
| 17:05:10 | captain_proton | observers and the like |
| 17:05:57 | Chestal | as you like, but most of the code is ugly |
| 17:06:16 | captain_proton | what are the changes with the input buffer? |
| 17:06:17 | Chestal | it's based on some late E3 bzfs I think |
| 17:06:33 | Chestal | input buffer? |
| 17:07:04 | captain_proton | there are some missing fields in the input buffer section of the player |
| 17:07:14 | captain_proton | perhaps an e3/e4 mismatch |
| 17:08:07 | Chestal | probably |
| 17:08:46 | Chestal | banning shoul dnot need changes to the player type, though |
| 17:08:54 | captain_proton | true |
| 17:08:59 | captain_proton | i'm just looking at all the differences |
| 17:14:55 | captain_proton | my server is now running with perm bans =) |
| 17:25:23 | captain_proton | whats all this NetStats stuff? |
| 17:27:27 | Chestal | this collects some statistics about how many packets were sent/received |
| 17:27:33 | Chestal | similar to what Tim added to 1.8 |
| 17:27:42 | Chestal | you can view this with /netstats |
| 17:28:12 | captain_proton | ahh, coo |
| 17:29:55 | captain_proton | makes it so you can choose how long the temp ban lasts |
| 17:30:36 | Chestal | hmm, this might break my code, if you do it in a naive way |
| 17:30:51 | captain_proton | what do you mean? |
| 17:30:53 | Chestal | at least I think that my code assumes that the bans are ordered by the time of expration |
| 17:31:03 | captain_proton | wel |
| 17:31:13 | captain_proton | the BannedAddress structure has a field for duration |
| 17:31:49 | Chestal | you might have to take a look at the code wqhich does the expiration |
| 17:32:01 | captain_proton | will do |
| 17:47:04 | captain_proton | ghosts? |
| 17:53:51 | Chestal | you can ignore the ghost thing, it is a hack to be able to estimate impact of server-side throttling |
| 17:54:26 | Chestal | it creates a copy of each player, one with and one withotu throttling applied |
| 17:54:54 | captain_proton | i see |
| 18:13:08 | Chestal | heh, you banned yourself on ducati |
| 18:14:24 | captain_proton | that i did =) |
| 18:16:25 | Chestal | whoah, it's raining cats & dogs here. hmm, is that term used in the US? or is it British only? or the other way around? or neither? |
| 18:16:39 | captain_proton | its used sometimes |
| 18:16:42 | Chestal | ibot: x en de, it's raining cats and dogs |
| 18:16:42 | | Chestal: regnet es Katzen und Hunde |
| 18:16:55 | captain_proton | another term is its coming down in buckets |
| 18:16:58 | | Chestal: de rien |
| 18:16:58 | Chestal | ibot: thanks for the great translation |
| 18:17:20 | captain_proton | funny |
| 18:17:30 | captain_proton | it couldn't be a more beautiful day outside (for the season) |
| 18:17:37 | captain_proton | but i would give anything for rain |
| 18:17:56 | Chestal | well, it was only cloudy this morning, but it started raining an hour ago and it's still getting worse |
| 18:18:01 | Chestal | oh, why that? |
| 18:18:07 | captain_proton | not sure |
| 18:18:10 | captain_proton | i like rain :) |
| 18:18:28 | Chestal | I like the sound of it at night |
| 18:18:38 | Chestal | but generally I don;t liek it very much when I am outside |
| 18:19:40 | lupinator | il pleut comme vache qui pisse |
| 18:21:04 | Chestal | I only understood one word in this sentence :-) |
| 18:21:16 | Chestal | ibot: x fr de il pleut comme vache qui pisse |
| 18:21:17 | | Chestal: er regnet als Kuh, die pisse |
| 18:21:25 | Chestal | oehm |
| 18:21:40 | Chestal | another fine translation by ibot - not |
| 18:22:01 | lupinator | ibot: x fr en il pleut comme vache qui pisse |
| 18:22:02 | | lupinator: it is raining cats and dogs |
| 18:22:06 | lupinator | wow |
| 18:22:12 | captain_proton | amazing |
| 18:22:18 | Chestal | indeed |
| 18:22:29 | Chestal | it didn't manage that for en->de or fr->de |
| 18:22:52 | Chestal | ibot: x de en Es schüttet wie aus Kübeln. (sagt man das überhaupt so, ich kann kein Deutsch :-) |
| 18:22:55 | | Chestal: It sch |
| 18:22:55 | lupinator | ibot: x de en boah alter! des pisst wie sau |
| 18:22:55 | | lupinator: boah older! pisst how sow |
| 18:23:04 | Chestal | hmm, Ulauts |
| 18:23:08 | captain_proton | ibot, x de en er regnet als Kuh, die pisse |
| 18:23:10 | | captain_proton: it rains as a cow, the pisse |
| 18:23:21 | captain_proton | what is a pisse? |
| 18:23:22 | Chestal | ibot: x de en Waerme |
| 18:23:27 | | Chestal: :( |
| 18:23:37 | | Chestal: sorry... |
| 18:23:37 | Chestal | ibot: silly bot, go stand in a corner |
| 18:23:52 | Chestal | captain: the German version doesn't make sense in the first place |
| 18:24:21 | captain_proton | heh |
| 18:24:21 | Chestal | captain: but pissen=piss or pisse=piss, not a nice word to say though :-) |
| 18:24:28 | lupinator | the french idiom says it rains like a pissing cow |
| 18:45:57 | Chestal | no sense, 2 reds have lag ofabout 400ms and 1500ms respectively |
| 18:47:08 | Chestal | we really need 1.8 to coem along fast so we can reject people like this from joining |
| 18:47:25 | lupinator | how taht? |
| 18:47:52 | Chestal | but there's oen thign I'd really like to know: how bad can a connection be that you've got >1s lag? Are these peopel doing downloads while playing? |
| 18:48:06 | Chestal | because the new network code will have much better lag measurement |
| 18:48:19 | Chestal | e.g. it shoudl measure ping times when a player joins |
| 18:48:28 | Chestal | so we coudl reject people which do not pass the initial test |
| 18:49:55 | lupinator | btw, is it possible, that tcp data is faster than usp for some weirdos? |
| 18:50:47 | Chestal | shoudln't make a difference, but of course it is possible for some tcp stack to handle the packets differently |
| 18:50:47 | lupinator | from one lagger i received position updates after he died |
| 18:51:04 | lupinator | almost every time |
| 18:52:10 | lupinator | so the lagstats were not that bad |
| 18:52:29 | lupinator | but it was a pain to play |
| 18:54:04 | Chestal | djkay was worse his lag was about 900ms-1600ms according to the stats |
| 18:54:19 | Chestal | a player lagged that much is a terrible weapon |
| 18:54:56 | Chestal | I was afraid of him all the time |
| 18:55:12 | captain_proton | heh |
| 18:55:26 | Chestal | and lag-kick doesn't help very much |
| 18:55:39 | captain_proton | you should have lag-ban ;) |
| 18:55:51 | Chestal | hmm, good idea actually |
| 18:55:59 | Chestal | and easy to implement :-) |
| 18:56:43 | Chestal | and with e4 there shouldn't be any false lag measurements, so lag-kicking should be reliable, i.e. no false kicking |
| 18:57:20 | Chestal | -lagwarn 200, lagban 1 |
| 18:57:58 | captain_proton | now we wait and see if temp banning works =| |
| 18:58:29 | captain_proton | it will remove the ban if nobody is on the server right? |
| 18:58:32 | lupinator | lag is really annoying in ctf games |
| 18:58:33 | captain_proton | ahahahaha |
| 18:58:38 | captain_proton | removed ban for 128.138.3.43 |
| 18:58:38 | captain_proton | removed ban for 0.0.0.0 |
| 18:58:38 | captain_proton | removed ban for 0.0.0.0 |
| 18:58:39 | captain_proton | removed ban for 0.0.0.0 |
| 18:58:39 | captain_proton | removed ban for 0.0.0.0 |
| 18:58:39 | captain_proton | removed ban for 0.0.0.0 |
| 18:58:39 | Chestal | I guess I'll drive home now. The only difficulty is to get to my car without getting soaked |
| 18:58:42 | captain_proton | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 18:58:51 | lupinator | the laggers drive across half the field before they decide to doe |
| 18:59:05 | Chestal | capt: heh, that doesn't look right... |
| 18:59:20 | Chestal | capt: my bans are not removed when all players leave, why should them? |
| 18:59:35 | captain_proton | Chestal: i meant it will time correctly |
| 18:59:38 | captain_proton | Chestal: which it does |
| 18:59:54 | Chestal | ah, ok |
| 19:00:06 | Chestal | later |
| 19:00:13 | lupinator | bye chestral |
| 19:01:04 | captain_proton | accept() from 128.138.3.43:43124 on 8 |
| 19:01:04 | captain_proton | temp banned 128.138.3.43 |
| 19:01:04 | captain_proton | removed ban for 128.138.3.43 |
| 19:27:57 | jacques | hi |
| 19:28:57 | jacques | i see you guys are having fun with lagger teams on decks |
| 19:29:00 | jacques | fun. |
| 19:39:49 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 19:39:52 | captain_proton | where's tank? |
| 19:41:28 | | I haven't seen 'tank', jacques |
| 19:41:28 | jacques | ibot: seen tank? |
| 19:41:31 | jacques | heh |
| 19:48:09 | jacques | captain_proton: what you doin with your server? |
| 19:48:20 | captain_proton | jacques: not much |
| 19:48:21 | jacques | captain_proton: BTW have i told you how much it rocks? |
| 19:48:32 | jacques | i really like that map now (still not good at it) |
| 19:48:39 | captain_proton | teehee |
| 19:48:56 | jacques | and the lag to me is very low |
| 19:50:23 | jacques | i think that is now my favorite map, and definitely my favorite server |
| 19:50:40 | captain_proton | that map has eaten several people =) |
| 19:50:59 | jacques | eaten? |
| 19:51:04 | captain_proton | taken in |
| 19:51:07 | jacques | oh you mean they are addicted to it now? |
| 19:51:09 | captain_proton | yes |
| 19:51:11 | jacques | i can understand |
| 19:51:17 | jacques | it's brilliant |
| 19:51:29 | jacques | in the sense that it looks nearly impossible to master |
| 19:51:38 | jacques | but there are so many tactics which can be used |
| 19:54:16 | jacques | when i first saw it i was in shock |
| 19:55:23 | captain_proton | how so? |
| 20:10:43 | jacques | hos so what? |
| 20:38:44 | captain_proton | hi BZFlag |
| 20:53:14 | jacques | wow ive never played with wound |
| 20:53:16 | jacques | sound |
| 20:53:56 | jacques | not too well synced tho |
| 20:55:59 | jacques | sound is lagging behind display |
| 21:00:57 | captain_proton | maybe |
| 21:01:14 | jacques | it doesnt for you? |
| 21:01:34 | captain_proton | well |
| 21:01:46 | captain_proton | distant explosions will be heard slightly after they are seen |
| 21:02:43 | jacques | im just going by watching the radar |
| 21:02:57 | jacques | shots are quite a bit away from the tank before they are heard |
| 21:03:03 | jacques | oooh |
| 21:03:12 | jacques | you mean that's correct behavior |
| 21:03:18 | jacques | hadnt thought of that |
| 21:03:53 | jacques | let me check |
| 21:06:10 | jacques | you are right! |
| 21:06:13 | jacques | it works correctly |
| 21:10:21 | jacques | wow |
| 21:10:28 | jacques | the game is even better with sound |
| 21:10:35 | jacques | :-) |
| 21:12:44 | jacques | crap there's a giant game going there now |
| 21:15:46 | jacques | captain_proton: if you are here, you have to see this |
| 21:15:55 | jacques | captain_proton: about 14 ppl on the server - it's pure chaos |
| 21:15:57 | captain_proton | where? |
| 21:15:58 | jacques | :-) |
| 21:16:06 | captain_proton | decks? |
| 21:16:26 | jacques | yep |
| 21:18:40 | jacques | sorry to wake you - it thought it was a lot |
| 21:21:40 | jacques | hmm, a 770+ lag player should never be able to kick that much ass |
| 21:21:47 | jacques | it's just not right |
| 21:54:40 | scanline | is away: I'm busy |
| 21:54:49 | scanline | is back (gone 00:00:01) |
| 21:54:59 | scanline | is really back.. just forgot to go away |
| 22:28:38 | Chestal | re |
| 22:33:18 | jacques | hi |
| 22:54:45 | captain_proton | is back |
| 23:04:20 | jacques_gone | arm |
| 23:04:22 | jacques_gone | arg |
| 23:07:03 | jacques_gone | i forgot to change my nick at home |
| 23:10:15 | captain_proton | heh |
| 23:10:29 | jacques_gone | captain_proton: how's it? |
| 23:13:19 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 23:13:58 | theJacques | how is it going? |
| 23:14:27 | captain_proton | decently |
| 23:14:56 | theJacques | cool. that was fun on decks erlier today |
| 23:15:00 | captain_proton | yep |
| 23:15:03 | theJacques | even though you killed me a milion times |
| 23:15:23 | captain_proton | i'm about to create some artwork for a more complicated HUD weapon indicator |
| 23:15:43 | theJacques | cool :-) |
| 23:16:09 | theJacques | did you ever play the PC game bzttlezone? |
| 23:16:13 | theJacques | battlezone |
| 23:16:16 | Chestal | I'd like to get the new network stuff started. Where's Tim? |
| 23:16:55 | theJacques | weapon locks worked like this: how fast you were going determined how much heat you were generating, so it was very hard to lock on a stationary target |
| 23:17:22 | captain_proton | i played the original battlezone once |
| 23:17:25 | captain_proton | never played the pc game |
| 23:18:34 | captain_proton | Chestal: i imagine tim is (a) at work (b) taking care of his kids |
| 23:18:45 | theJacques | actually there were heat tracking weps and radar tracking weps, but there were also differnt sized tanks |
| 23:18:58 | Chestal | well, I have to go to bed anyway now, I'm just wondering if anythign has been started yet |
| 23:19:37 | captain_proton | don't think so |
| 23:19:52 | theJacques | tim is talking on #tuxscreen |
| 23:20:55 | Guerwolf | one server alive somewhere ?? |
| 23:21:13 | captain_proton | plenty of servers alive |
| 23:21:16 | Chestal | Guerwolf: there should be lots of active servers for 1.7 |
| 23:21:29 | Guerwolf | any adress ? |
| 23:21:37 | Chestal | does the server list not work for you? |
| 23:21:58 | Guerwolf | ... don't move ... |
| 23:22:36 | captain_proton | bzflag -list default |
| 23:23:28 | Guerwolf | Right !!! didn't yet tried through my new adsl link! thanks ! |
| 23:24:22 | captain_proton | iLLf8d! |
| 23:24:48 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 23:24:55 | iLLf8d | greetings cap |
| 23:24:59 | iLLf8d | how goes it |
| 23:25:14 | captain_proton | implemented bans |
| 23:25:21 | iLLf8d | nice |
| 23:25:36 | iLLf8d | hopefully he's not one to get all his buddies to show up now |
| 23:25:40 | captain_proton | both permanent (until server restart) and temporary (for a specified amount of time) |
| 23:25:52 | captain_proton | who? |
| 23:26:06 | iLLf8d | the guy last callsign he had was |
| 23:26:11 | iLLf8d | Jew Burning Team |
| 23:26:27 | iLLf8d | he got nastier with his callsigns after you left |
| 23:27:06 | captain_proton | geez |
| 23:27:20 | captain_proton | did you keep kicking? |
| 23:27:41 | iLLf8d | I kicked him a few times but he just came back |
| 23:27:51 | iLLf8d | so I just started shooting him |
| 23:27:58 | iLLf8d | navigator and a few others said they were gonna leave |
| 23:28:07 | iLLf8d | I privmessaged nav and said |
| 23:28:09 | theJacques | ARG |
| 23:28:13 | theJacques | people suck |
| 23:28:36 | iLLf8d | cap lies to keep this server as open as possible and if I keep kicking it'll just give the guy a reason to come back |
| 23:28:51 | iLLf8d | so in priv message I toldem i'd switch to his team and we'll shoot the crap outta them |
| 23:28:53 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:29:10 | theJacques | then they'll just start cheating |
| 23:29:10 | iLLf8d | so we did a while then he got mad anyway and left (navigator*) |
| 23:29:11 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:29:31 | iLLf8d | I dunno |
| 23:29:39 | iLLf8d | you're damned if you do and damned if you don't in that case |
| 23:29:49 | captain_proton | if he comes back |
| 23:29:53 | captain_proton | i'm permbanning him |
| 23:29:57 | iLLf8d | the more you push people like that the more they want to fuck with you |
| 23:30:07 | iLLf8d | you may wanna consider that first |
| 23:30:11 | Chestal | be careful with that permbans, make sure it's not a random pool IP |
| 23:30:33 | iLLf8d | ignorant people are just that... |
| 23:30:52 | theJacques | i say again - people suck |
| 23:30:58 | iLLf8d | I dunno |
| 23:31:12 | captain_proton | Chestal: true - dynamic could mess with it |
| 23:31:15 | iLLf8d | when the twin towers happened I was |
| 23:31:20 | iLLf8d | uhm stunned I guess |
| 23:31:31 | iLLf8d | I joined bzflag field I figured online gaming was sacred |
| 23:31:33 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:31:46 | iLLf8d | got on first thing I saw was die america |
| 23:31:52 | iLLf8d | and osama bin laden |
| 23:31:55 | iLLf8d | the day of the towers |
| 23:31:59 | iLLf8d | I flipped out |
| 23:32:07 | iLLf8d | creamed them both but shit was I mad |
| 23:32:17 | iLLf8d | I live in a building thats like the UN |
| 23:32:29 | iLLf8d | for a few months I was trying to keep my anger in check |
| 23:32:37 | iLLf8d | alot of people in the building hate americans |
| 23:32:44 | iLLf8d | seems its a 50/50 split |
| 23:32:51 | theJacques | then they can leave |
| 23:32:57 | theJacques | nobody is keeping then here |
| 23:33:07 | theJacques | iLLf8d: you are in the US right? |
| 23:33:14 | Chestal | well, I do not know anyone who hates Americans, but a lot of peopel who dislike current American politics |
| 23:33:21 | theJacques | heh that's different |
| 23:33:27 | iLLf8d | they blame us cause our coutry is better then theirs and are forced to stay here with sucky americans to get a better life |
| 23:33:30 | theJacques | i dislike a lot of what the givmt does |
| 23:33:35 | iLLf8d | at least those that have the attitude |
| 23:33:48 | iLLf8d | it surprises me how split they are |
| 23:33:59 | iLLf8d | some love some hate us doesn't seem to be a middle ground |
| 23:34:15 | Chestal | wel, I'm in the middle :-) |
| 23:34:27 | theJacques | i certainly dont love all americans |
| 23:34:35 | iLLf8d | its pretty stupid imho |
| 23:34:36 | theJacques | because a lot of them suck :-) |
| 23:34:47 | theJacques | but i dont want to kill them |
| 23:34:48 | iLLf8d | even if you dislike americans be neighborly |
| 23:34:52 | theJacques | sure |
| 23:35:00 | iLLf8d | this is a free country you're entitiled to your own opinion |
| 23:35:07 | iLLf8d | but you gotta live with your neighbors so.... |
| 23:36:27 | iLLf8d | one cool thing was that one foreign couple from the a building of 100 units came up to the corner for the candlelight vigil and brought their son, and 2 other apartments of lit candles |
| 23:36:37 | iLLf8d | the other 96 just gave us attitude |
| 23:36:38 | theJacques | i dont like ppl who fuck with other ppl |
| 23:36:39 | Chestal | to make a deep and vague comment before I go to bed: I fear that the whole western civilization is on a very ill course |
| 23:36:43 | iLLf8d | well not true the other uhm |
| 23:36:53 | iLLf8d | 30something I'd say |
| 23:36:58 | iLLf8d | the rest were just out |
| 23:37:19 | iLLf8d | Chestal: I don't think its just western civ |
| 23:37:50 | Chestal | iLLf8d: I cannot judge other civilizations like Arab, African or Asian |
| 23:38:21 | iLLf8d | I'm not well traveled either |
| 23:38:36 | iLLf8d | i'm just say its not specific to here |
| 23:38:48 | iLLf8d | s/saying |
| 23:38:52 | iLLf8d | sheesh typos |
| 23:39:14 | Chestal | we'll have elections in September, and unless somethign major happens until then I just do not know who to vote for. They all suck |
| 23:39:57 | Chestal | they are all sacrificing their principles on the altar of economic growth and opportunism |
| 23:41:05 | iLLf8d | hopefully communication, internet world travel etc.... will make the planet a bit smaller and cause everyone to wake up |
| 23:41:49 | Chestal | the internet has been in a down-spiral, too, for some years, though |
| 23:42:28 | Chestal | but there's still hope that reason will persist in some areas |
| 23:42:41 | iLLf8d | ehh I know alot more foreign people then I used too, tho there are bad elements I've been exposed to alot that I'd never had any interest in whatseoever |
| 23:43:13 | iLLf8d | some countries i'd heard of but couldn't find on a map till the internet |
| 23:43:43 | iLLf8d | mostly cause I'd never figured that i'd ever visit them or had any need whatsoever of knowing their locations |
| 23:43:53 | Chestal | getting to now peopel from other countries is a very good thing, mostly it's Europe and USA though. And mostly peopel with high degree of education |
| 23:44:51 | iLLf8d | United Arab Emirates is one thats come to mind |
| 23:45:28 | Chestal | heh, they played at the soccer world championships :-), but it's not that big a country |
| 23:48:13 | iLLf8d | well I was just giving you an example |
| 23:48:13 | iLLf8d | have spoken to at least 1/2 dozen from that country |
| 23:48:13 | Chestal | wel, I'm off to bed, maybe reading a little more of the JUngle Books |
| 23:48:13 | iLLf8d | and had pleasant convos |
| 23:48:14 | iLLf8d | used to communicate regularly with one guy |
